good nimisin

[mighty horizon]

sike Kapo o

[rough mantle]

mi awen sona alaaaaa

[mighty horizon]

󱥜󱦐󱤔󱦜󱥔󱦜󱦑

󱤧󱤘

[rustic lagoon]

leko leko leko leko leko leko leko

leko leko

[mighty horizon]

leko ala

leko li

[rough mantle]

a

sina sona pona e nimi mi a

[mighty horizon]

mi seme

[rough mantle]

tenpo mute la mi [kala · pona · ]

[mighty horizon]

sina kala

sina pona

[rustic lagoon]

sitelen ale pi sijelo leko li leko lon

[mighty horizon]

mi sitelen UCSUR'

[rough mantle]

taso, ijo musi ante li ken
[kule ale pona olin]

nimi suwi :3

[rustic lagoon]

(musi la tenpo pini la mi sona)

[mighty horizon]

󱤴󱥠󱦐U󱦒C󱦒S󱦒U󱦒R󱦒󱦑

i bet that looks nasa without the font

[mighty horizon]

the cartouches dont do lines around non-sp

[rustic lagoon]

sina pilin pona tawa leko taso

[mighty horizon]

󱦐󱤔󱦜󱥔󱦜󱦑
󱦐UCSUR󱦑

[rustic lagoon]

musi

[lucid aspen]

that one zewei language:

[rough mantle]

toki Sope lete

[steep fiber]

I like it. I'd probably write it as tepilo tho

[lucid aspen]

why

[steep fiber]

The original sound is 'h' why transcribe a h into w?

Also I'd confuse it with wile probably

[lucid aspen]

it's not h; old nahuatl is written with the spanish orthography (silent h "hui" -> /wi/)

[rough mantle]

from wiktionary: [ˈte.wiːloːt͡ɬ]

[steep fiber]

Ah, I see. I thought it was IPA

[native root]

What if, there was a word for serious

[warm wasp]

ni li ijo suli
mi musi ala

[steep fiber]

I thought musi ala was more 'bored'

[desert rampart]

mi toki lon li toki ala musi

[native root]

Ah alright, thanks

[obsidian jackal]

[mighty horizon]

its kind of like how "this isnt funny" can mean "this is serious" or "this is boring" based on context and tone

[rough mantle]

o MUSI ALA
ike SULI a li ken
o KUTE e mi

[onyx torrent]

haiku wawa

[rough mantle]

wawa….. ni li tan ala wile a

[warm wasp]

ni la wawa suli a

[stable abyss]

For a time it was included in Kokanu as jati

[lavish dew]

upo - to sit, sitting, to place down, synonym of awen
from Tagalog "upo"
e.g. "sina upo ala upo?" "mi upo"; "o upo!"

[solid moat]

#1187029495203504168 message

great minds think alike

[lavish dew]

oops hahaha

[solid moat]

no it's fine people double nimisin all the time

[lavish dew]

tapi - to urinate, to defecate, urine, feces
(if this is bad I shall move this to #1181641057985908797 )

[lucid aspen]

sina li 💀

[stable abyss]

I proposed this bad nimisin:

It means conformism because it transforms illegal syllables in conventional ways

[lucid aspen]

my favorite de-wuwojitid wuwojiti is uwajesi because it actually represents how people usually do the unwuwojitiing ime

[solid moat]

u - relative clause marker
fragments of sentences come after u

o pana e lipu u mi sitelen lon supa ona
give (me) the paper i painted on

i don't know where to put "tawa mi"

[weak citrus]

ki

usage

sandbox (no book)

definition

(particle) [relative clause marker]

see also

⚠️ This proposed word is in the sandbox. It is not in use by the community.

[fathom needle]

also for me something like "Thing that deletes the bad" could be ijo ni: ona li weka e ike

[solid moat]

yeah that's the conventional method

[solid moat]

oh dang

[forest anvil]

Name origin: siktir! (a curse word from Turkish)
Meaning
N: Curse, swear word. Anything, any speech that is considered provoking.
V:To curse, cursing, to curse at someone.
Adj: toki ike, something that is related to swearing, terribly awful (sikitu pali= very awful work that someone could actually swear to it without hesitation 😭🙏)
Why?:We don't have any specific word for swear to someone. While Toki Pona is a positive language, swear in a language holds a big part 🤓
Why can it be considered as bad: Having a specific swear word might seem contrary to the peaceful and positive nature of toki pona.

[lucid aspen]

skill issue

if you need a swear word to insult something or someone that is quite literally a skill issue

especially in toki pona

[meager mason]

... you literally give an alternative in the definition itself

[fathom needle]

This, and i quote, "sina pakala nanpa wan" works well enough

[solid moat]

lukin sina li sama soweli works for me

[thin axle]

"sina jaki"
works for me

[meager mason]

this sort of thing is very common here

[pearl laurel]

papaka - crab
from Maori "pāpaka"
papaka li pipi kala pona
I didn't find any existing nimisin for crab and found a word that works well phonetically from an endangered language so I figured it couldn't hurt to have one on record since folks are often coming up with nimisin for animals anyway.

[warm wasp]

kon sin:
a point of convergence, an inevitable occurrence

[solid moat]

i'm not sold

maybe add an -isa

[warm wasp]

pisa

[fathom needle]

osi - to like/adore/admire/parasocially love someone; to support/push someone towards success; to favor/favorite someone.
Can also be used for "like", "follow" and "subscribe" in terms of social media. (ex. o osi e mi, lit. make me your favorite; like me)
from Japanese "推し" oshi
Other exmaples:

kala Sapa li osi mi

• Saba is my favorite

o osi e mi kepeken ilo loje!

• Favorite me using the red button! ; Subscribe using the subscribe button!,

(jan) osi sina li seme

• Who's your favorite?

mi osi e jan pona mi

• I push my friend to sucess

jan ale pi sijelo ilo li osi mi!

• Everyone of a digital body is my favorite! ; Every V-Tuber is my oshi!

Kinda like a middle ground between pona and olin

sitelen pona pi nimi osi

[meager mason]

could this also be used to describe a crush who doesn't reciprocate ones feelings

[fathom needle]

yeah

also something i somehow forgot to put in the definition is "to idolize someone or something"

[warm wasp]

tenpo pini la mun Kekan San li toki e ni: ona o kama linuwi
ni li kama ala

[halcyon oriole]

mi toki e nasin pona ni tawa jan mute!
taso pakala li lon:
ona ale li kepeken ala nimi linuwi. taso la ona li pilin pona tawa ante ni.

[kindred ferry]

linwi is just linuwi with sync'pe, so it's 2 syllables like most toki pona words

mi wile alasa kepeken nimi Linwi lon tenpo kama

[stuck spear]

what if we go further. liwi. 2 morae
-# damn, that was yesterday

[glossy ruin]

why not go all the way - merge it with li

[fathom needle]

wi - interconnectedness like "we" kinda

[meager mason]

that moment when there is bad nimisin in the good nimisin thread

[jolly meteor]

every word is one wovel

distinction is done with vowel length

and tones

[jolly meteor]

njan - a catperson

[meager mason]

iirc this is already in some limited use

[rough mantle]

"njan ale o"

[jolly meteor]

mi - sama njan

[fickle vine]

-# ‘toki nja, njan ale o! mi njan Kekjan Sjan’

[jolly meteor]

i meant it seriously

[sacred basin]

y'all getting the tuki tiki spirit
-# /j

[jolly meteor]

who ghost pinged me >:(
-# Please use reply pings.

[obsidian jackal]

toki a, njan ale o! sina pilin seme? mi pona. mi wile... kama waso.

[true cypress]

I wanted to reply to one of your messages but the tpt bot auto deleted it

[jolly meteor]

a
-# Please use reply pings.

[true cypress]

Funnily enough a similar word is the word for person in that kinda abandoned proto toki idea i had

[jolly meteor]

nnn
-# Please use reply pings.

[soft storm]

Literally stereo

[jolly meteor]

seme
-# Please use reply pings.

[soft storm]

jan「Stereotypical」li njan pi ma Jutu

[jolly meteor]

the stereotypical person is a catperson youtuber? theres noo way im interpreting that right
-# Please use reply pings.

[soft storm]

thou art correct

[jolly meteor]

[soft storm]

But his name is Stereotypical (on YouTube)

[jolly meteor]

aaaaaaaaaa sona
-# Please use reply pings.

[soft storm]

He actually makes Minecraft videos

[jolly meteor]

aa interesintg
-# Please use reply pings.

[still karma]

josuta :3

[sly wadi]

test

[still karma]

muuu :3

[jolly meteor]

muu :3c

[sly wadi]

muu :3c

kala josuta Ke / {l< ‘8,} ↩️

[Reply to:](#1187029495203504168 message) muuu :3

[solid moat]

satalan - expected, normal, predetermined, ordinary, appropriate, fitting
(this is different than the toki pawole word)

the opposite of satalan is not nasa, rather "satalan ala" can be used to talk about the unexpected, innapropriate or unprecedented.

[onyx torrent]

i’d say that something unexpected, inappropriate, or unprecedented is actually nasa

[true cypress]

kokanu reference

[rustic lagoon]

I have yet to think of a good nimisin

Everything I think of can be said better with pu/ku suli-lili

[rustic lagoon]

The spy died btw

If anyone was wondering

[rustic lagoon]

Idk he probably respawned

[rustic lagoon]

Idk, maybe they left the game

[rustic lagoon]

Again, I have no idea

[lucid aspen]

man these sure are some good nimisins

[solid moat]

well actually the plural of nimisin is nimisin

[warm wasp]

no one demands you of nimisin sin
I've only made barely 2 serious ones in 3 years

[rustic lagoon]

Can I hear them?

[glossy ruin]

mi wile sona e nimisin ale

[rustic lagoon]

ni

[warm wasp]

[[User:Jan lili Enta/nasin nasa#nimi sin]] will this work

[urban schooner]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:Jan_lili_Enta%2Fnasin_nasa#nimi_sin

[dapper pawn]

the concept of using kokanu words in toki pona...

[sturdy hollow]

https://haleyhalcyon.github.io/kokanu/

[sturdy hollow]

My personal just-for-fun Tokiponido has
kansi

• [noun] quantity; number (of things, not a rank)
• [particle] when followed by a valid nasin nanpa pona numeral, marks an ordinal number, just as nanpa marks a cardinal number; example: jan nanpa tu wan — the third person; jan kansi tu wan — three people
  < Spanish cantidad

lipu nanpa tu wan lon kansi luka tu — volume 3 out of a total of 7 volumes

[rustic lagoon]

... "jan pi tu wan" -> "Three people....?"

Am I crazy, I thought that's how it worked

[sturdy hollow]

Sounds like it could be "person of three-ness" or "person who divides and unites". The usual way to say it is "jan tu wan"

[rustic lagoon]

I used pi for the same reason as colors, consider the following

https://tenor.com/view/check-pattern-ioarquider-gif-4843899074855001613

supa walo pimeja:

[warm wasp]

just jan tu wan
numbers are a bit different in that regard

[rustic lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/concrete-gif-11018886

supa pi walo pimeja:

So I feel there's a difference idk

I feel X pi tu wan isn't confusing (To mean 3 that is)

[warm wasp]

but for colours, perfectly valid and understood

[warm wasp]

if thats the case no one wouldve tried making number particle in the first place :P

[rustic lagoon]

Idk man, that's how the words speak to me

[warm wasp]

i do agree its slightly weird

id say if wanna put sth there, put a nimi sin there to indicate to others that it is not normal, if you put pi there others might not think its sth non standard and interpret it differently without asking
-# im not saying this to influence you to use my nimi sin, but wink wink

[sturdy hollow]

unfortunately, the normal way to say “something orange” is “something that is red and yellow” in toki pona

[candid frigate]

more like "a red yellow thing"

[rustic lagoon]

Which isn't too bad

[candid frigate]

it's a yellow thing that's red

[rustic lagoon]

I'm currently taking a look at Kokanu, because I would like to create a conlang that between toki pona and Kokanu

[warm wasp]

🤨
ijo loje jelo: thing that is red and yellow
ijo pi jelo loje: thing that is reddish yellow

pretty standard

[candid frigate]

eventually we fill up the entire range so that we have a conlang with every number of words in between tuki tiki and kokanu

[rustic lagoon]

It's that I love toki pona, but some things I don't like

[candid frigate]

inspired by toki pona or a tokiponido

[rustic lagoon]

Is that a question?

Or are you adding on to what you said before lol

[sturdy hollow]

The jelo loje or loje jelo spectrum

[rustic lagoon]

(you forgot the pi)

[sturdy hollow]

the walo pimeja or pimeja walo spectrum

[dapper pawn]

ngl i thought was pan

wait do rice also come in ears???

til

[rustic lagoon]

(because you forgot the pi, here's the REAL jelo loje / loje jelo spectrum

[dapper pawn]

ni la would ijo loje jelo and ijo jelo loje have the same connotation

or is the first adjective more prominent

[dapper pawn]

hmmm i feel like nanpa should mean rank then

[warm wasp]

hmm
id say in this case, same

[dapper pawn]

maybe another nimisin is needed...

[warm wasp]

nanpa ona li pona a
not directly, but works :p

[sturdy hollow]

nanpa does mean rank when preceding a valid nnp number

[dapper pawn]

yeah but like outside of that

having two words that can mean quantity (kansi and nanpa) is kinda weird

[sturdy hollow]

nanpa doesn’t mean quantity

mute means quantity

[dapper pawn]

true i just thought of that

so would kansi and mute both mean quantity?

idk i feel that's still odd

can't really think of a better content word meaning for kansi though. maybe it should just be a particle??

[sturdy hollow]

Yeah, only kansi works as a particle for “number/amount”

[sturdy hollow]

for me, “mute” means “the quality of being many”, or just “a high number/amount”

while “kansi” includes any amount, including 1, ½, 0, or even negative numbers, just that it’s a quantity

[dapper pawn]

actually i just thought that maybe you could use mute as a particle to mark ordinals instead but it's already a numeral, lol

like jan mute tu wan would definitely be read as 23 people

[sturdy hollow]

backwards compatibility is ugh

Also:
pete
gender; sex

• tu pete — the gender binary
• pete pi tu ala; pete ante — nonbinary gender
• pete nasa — genderq***r
• pilin pete; pete lon lawa — gender identity
• pete sijelo — biological sex
• pete pi ante sijelo — transsexual/transgender

from Polish płeć /ˈpwɛt͡ɕ/ (sex, gender) and Thai เพศ phet /pʰeːt̚˥˩/ (sex, gender, costume)

My rationale for a word for “gender” is to enable discussion of gender without directly invoking the binary of “mije anu meli anu seme”

[candid frigate]

yes

[rustic lagoon]

I guess I would answer yes, kinda

Vaguely inspired by

[solid moat]

that glyph is so uninspired 😤

i like my satalan better

[sturdy hollow]

that’s leseka

[solid moat]

huh

(as in "oh")

[sturdy hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/toki-pona-aaa-aa-toki-pona-gif-26544124

[solid moat]

the kokanu logography seems hard to just write as a script

i'm trying to make toki pawole more natural

[sturdy hollow]

There are 2 Kokanu logographies rn

[solid moat]

ooo

o pana

[sturdy hollow]

VSG’s one seems more a priori, while mine (https://discord.com/channels/301377942062366741/1410266405772984461) is expressly a Sitelenponido

[sturdy hollow]

Added link to VSG’s logography

[solid moat]

oooh

yours looks nice, but it is very technical

could do with some simplification /nf

[sturdy hollow]

you could post in the thread with improvements

[wispy vortex]

(btw i think you’re mixing up cardinal [amount] and ordinal [order] numbers here)

[sturdy hollow]

ok

[obsidian jackal]

more like kepeken sin but:
misikeke - beyond medicine or its practice: chemicals, particularly artificial ones with notable effects on the human body

semi-inspired by SC 药 (yào, medicine), used in the phrase 火药 (huǒyào, gunpowder)

e.g. acetone is a kind of misikeke

[sly wadi]

kepesin - a new definition of a word

[sturdy hollow]

Same with Japanese, 薬 kusuri means medicine and 火薬 kayaku means gunpowder. 薬品 yakuhin is another term for “chemical”
Interestingly 加薬 kayaku is “spice and additional ingredients” that you put in rice or noodles

[still karma]

weselu - boat, sailing vehicle, yacht, ship, submarine, naval vehicle

[lucid aspen]

namako

[karmic summit]

kulinko or hai - referred to people who try to speak toki pona but in the end they do it absolutely wrong, someone who speaks toki pona but incorrectly all the time; to speak the language of toki pona incorrectly, to speak any language/speech incorrectly; (to be) wrong, incorrect
-# from colloquial Spanish “gringo”, and from the youtube channel Half As Interesting

[dapper pawn]

this is fire actually

[sturdy hollow]

sanawi
same as above
-# from the phrase “Sam from HAI”

[lucid aspen]

pakola:

[karmic summit]

thats just a kulinko way of saying pakala

same goes with sini

[sturdy hollow]

Reposting now that I’ve decided on a word.

pete

• [noun] gender; sex (not necessarily binary)
• [intransitive verb] to be a gender/sex
• [transitive verb] to assign, call, or deem a gender/sex
• [adjective] related to gender/sex

Usage notes

pete is to be understood as a hypernym of meli, mije, and tonsi, and to be a word used to discuss under which hyponym a specific person or thing belongs.
pete is not to be understood as inherently “binary”, hence the suggested constructions tu pete vs. pete pi tu ala.

Usage

• tu pete — the gender binary
• pete pi tu ala; pete ante — nonbinary gender
• pete nasa — gender non-normative; genderq***r; tonsi
• pilin pete; pete lon lawa — gender identity
• ike pete — (directed to others) sexism; (directed to oneself) gender dysphoria
• pete sijelo — biological sex; visible sex features
• pete pi ante sijelo; pete pi ante open — transsexual/transgender

Etymology

from Polish płeć /ˈpwɛt͡ɕ/ (sex, gender) and Thai เพศ phet /pʰeːt̚˥˩/ (sex, gender, costume)

Rationale

• To enable discussion of gender, without directly invoking the binary of “mije anu meli anu seme”, or being limited to non-normative (tonsi) gender only.
• To fill the lexical gap of “transgender/transsexual people” without overgeneralizing as “tonsi people”.

Sitelen Pona

A simplified Mars-Venus symbol. Originally the glyph for henelo from VSG’s logography for Kokanu.

[sly wadi]

pete ante feels like its defaulting to binary gender

jan Eli [» › ·] (tan ma Nipon) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1187029495203504168 message) Reposting now that I’ve decided on a word.

pete

• [noun] gender…

same for pete pi ante sijelo; pete pi ante open

[sturdy hollow]

Is “binary gender” always a bad thing, or is it an emergent property of all human societies, arising from the sex dimorphism of Homo sapiens sapiens?

Anthropologically, binary gender has been the default in every civilization we know of. Third genders were a way to make sense of people who didn’t fit in. Is this good? Is this bad? It’s not my place to say, except that having the option to talk about the gender binary is useful, whether to simply mention it, or to criticize it.

tu pete li ike ala ike tawa sina?

ni li lon taso tawa mi; ni li pona ala li ike ala tawa mi.

[sly wadi]

I don't think gender should be thought of as binary by default, even if it's "biologically true", which it isn't. If someone needs to talk about binary gender, that can be specified, like pete tu, instead of it just being the default.

jan Eli [» › ·] (tan ma Nipon) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1187029495203504168 message) Is “binary gender” always a bad thing, or is it an emergent property of all human societies, arising…

[sturdy hollow]

I recently read an essay about how conflating is and ought to be led to the backslide of trans rights. You’re entitled to your opinion that gender ought not to be thought of as binary—as I mention in my given definition that it’s “(not necessarily binary)”—and I’m entitled to the opinion that being able to talk about gender in general, without restricting ourselves to non-normative gender, is very useful.

Tamzin (wan Tansin) (@[email protected])

I have drafted this essay literally dozens of times. As long drafts...

I have drafted this essay literally dozens of times. As long drafts in my head, as an op-ed that got a very polite rejection letter, as various stale drafts on this blog, as a Mastodon thread I never posted, as an audio essay I never posted, as a video essay I never made. It started out as a commentary on the Dylan Mulvaney clusterfuck in 2023, built around the idea that trans visibility had been a bad thing. In the two years since, it’s become clear that that then-edgy take was in fact an understatement, that the trans community’s strategy for the past 15 years has been a continuous push in the wrong direction.

This essay will probably make some people mad, and that’s fine, but I do want people to get mad for the right reasons, so I want to stress a few things from the start:

First, the trans rights backslide in the US is primarily the fault of bad actors on the far right. That does not, however, mean that trans rights activists bear no responsibility in it. Pushback…

essays-by.tamz.in · Jul 3, 2025, 4:34 PM

[lucid aspen]

woa it's wan Tansin

[late fjord]

takon Outer space; a large space of nothingness; something in space.
-# From Mandarin 太空

"tomo takon mi li tomo mi taso."
"Our starship is our only home."

[soft storm]

What’s in a metaphor except someone making a really big stretch

Give me metaphor ideas

[rustic lagoon]

As many before, I just want to have ona and ni alone, not require a li

[rustic lagoon]

(Femtanyl ❤️‍🔥)

[glossy ruin]

tuki tiki core

[rustic lagoon]

It just don’t make sense

[glossy ruin]

it's language - does it have to?

[rustic lagoon]

No, but it’s a constructed language so I guess I’m saying it doesn’t make sense why it was purposely written that way

[lucid aspen]

tok pisin

it's a tok pisin thing

[solid moat]

isn't it not possible to change your gender (except if you're genderfluid) because it's more psycological and therefore you've always had that gender you're just changing how you go about it

[sturdy hollow]

The original Pew Research Center poll phrases it as this:

Whether a person is a man or a woman

1. can be different from sex assigned at birth.
2. is determined by sex assigned at birth.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/

[wispy vortex]

there's no inherent 'gender' property that any human has

societal perception creates gender and gender roles and assigns those to people

[warm wasp]

i would say that theres some nebulous kon inside of a lot of ppl (with diff intensity) that's related to gender
but then it's segmented and labelled by societal perception which creates gender

and then the expectation to conform that kon into some few hypothetical "ideals" yada yada

-# ideals^ =/= pona

[wispy vortex]

ni ni

i'd add that the culture is what chooses what part of a person's kon is related to gender

[sturdy hollow]

On the contrary, listening to transsexual people will show that they have a subconscious sex (as Julia Serano named it in Whipping Girl), just like cis people do.

Her pet example is that, when she asks a group of cis people “Would you accept a huge sum of money for the cost of living as another gender for the rest of your life?”, most of them say no, but can’t articulate why it feels wrong. This indicates that there’s some aspect of most humans’ minds that subconsciously indicates to the conscious mind what their gender is, much like hunger subconsciously indicates when they need to eat

We don’t know what causes it, much like we don’t know what causes sexuality to be homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual

Of course, subconscious sex is not the entirety of gender; Serano lists gender identity (how the person willingly places themself in a wider gendered society) as another important aspect that makes up sex/gender

She also denies the notion that sex/gender is entirely biological, or entirely socially constructed. If it were entirely socially constructed, trans people wouldn’t be able to exist; if socialization causes gender, why do some people have a gender that contradicts their socialization?

[solid moat]

i could very well be wrong but uh: (4:57)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpGqFUStcxc&t=297s

to be fair he never says a thing about non binary people in the video

[granite wagon]

pilin mi li sama lon ni. I’m unsure what we can know about the shape of the kon among people though since it’s so influenced by culture, like I’m sure some people would say it exists on a 1-d spectrum and society groups some things on either side into one gender or another, or maybe it’s a triangle, or there is no ordered spectrum msa

[solid moat]

alright should we get back to nimisin

[lucid aspen]

yeah

[solid moat]

i really like this one

[meager mason]

sinwita
<- Icelandic skynvilla "hallucination"
hallucination, illusion, dream, depersonalization, imagination, mind's eye, to hallucinate, to imagine
-# I promise this isn't the [64-bit integer limit]th word for dream

[solid moat]

throw it in the pile with the rest of them

[late fjord]

lonpo /lo̞n.po̞/ Robot, machine, construct; moving tool, gears, axel; an inanimate object that moves.
-# From Greek ρομπότ (rompót)

"lonpo lipu li pana sona tawa mi la mi pali e lipu."

I feel like there isn't a good word for AI or robots or even any sort of humanoid that isn't necessarily a person. Sure, we have ilo, jan ilo, or ilo tawa, so I took the nimisin from my tokiponido toki pona takon, which was coined by jan Sapo, a Greek engineer.

[warm wasp]

I'm not quite sold by this idea but it does resurface a pilin about whether it's appropriate to use ilo to describe machine like entities that aren't centrally sth that is also being used (as a tool)

[late fjord]

I'm just gonna start using lonpo

[rustic lagoon]

How the hell is that lowered o pronounced?

[soft storm]

It’s pronounced between o and ɔ

[wispy vortex]

o̞ is the cardinal vowel that's in the middle

-# although it's not necessary to write it as a phoneme in /these/. i'd probably say /o/ -> [o̞] but even then because the context establishes that we're already working with toki pona [o] is enough and the diacritic is redundant

[limber obsidian]

-# toki pona doesn't differentiate between o and o̞ anyways so I don't think it's necessary

-# plus pronunciation of toki pona word N = /N/

[soft storm]

.n sita

[round linden]

sita – Content Word
-# from Hungarian “tiszta”
v. — to purify, to clean, to repair
n. — something pure/clean/repaired
mod. — pure, clean, unbroken

sita written in sitelen pona and sitelen Lasina:

92cd0f sita

[warm wasp]

welcome back matu

[soft storm]

What exactly does that mean?

[dapper pawn]

.n matu

[round linden]

I couldn't find that note.

[dapper pawn]

damn even she don't knwos

[soft storm]

Oh no

[rustic lagoon]

It's the ough in thought I see

(My don't people just say that)

[soft storm]

My don’t 💀

[rustic lagoon]

I got no autocorrect on my laptop

My brain just types what it wants

[soft storm]

Ok

[rustic lagoon]

But yea:
o -> joːn -> yawn
o̞ -> θɔ̝ːt -> thought
ɔ -> nɔt -> not (But like, pretend to speak with a heavy British accent)

[glossy ruin]

Do I still have to "pretend" if I'm actually British?

[soft storm]

Yes

British people don’t actually speak like that /j

[rustic lagoon]

Only like 0.1% of all English speakers talk like that

So 99.9% of us do have to pretend

[burnt kelp]

pansi weak, powerless
-# From 'pansy'

[soft storm]

unhumane?

[karmic summit]

you know basically some cultures use “animal” as some sort of way to offend people or to say that they’re “stupid”
yeah it’s that but less offensive

[soft storm]

It would make more sense if it were to act humanely

But that’s just me

[warm wasp]

jan ala?

[soft storm]

But jan are also isa

It means life

Thus it’s ka

But with namako

[karmic summit]

yes but it can be referred as a general term for animals

or more accurately “living things” but that’s just literally ka in tuki tiki

[warm wasp]

so does it exclude humans or not

[karmic summit]

it’s like. you can but its not advised really

take for example how the word “soweli” can mean land mammal or a general term for animals but the latter use is not advised

[solid moat]

wewi
m. considerate, wary, conscious, attentive
n. detail, gesture
v. be companionate towards, pay attention to, mind

EMPATHY!

from English "wary"

[soft storm]

That sounds cute

[karmic summit]

just reposting this hold on

isa —
c. animal, creature, being, to act/be/turn into an animal, to act unhumane (semantic space related to animals in general)
-# created from the most common elements of the phonetic and syllabic properties of the 6 animal words in toki pona (namely soweli, akesi, pipi, waso, kala, and kije(tesantakalu)) (and this is purely a coincidence with “isa” that happened in bad nimisin earlier)

Unicode approximation of the word in sitelen pona: Ꙫ

[soft storm]

“Purely”

[karmic summit]

do my science and you’ll get the same answer

the literal top 3 most common phonemes of those 6 words are i, a, and s

[soft storm]

In that order?

[karmic summit]

yes

[soft storm]

I’d prob get asi smh

[karmic summit]

would you really

ass sea! 😂

[soft storm]

ah see

[karmic summit]

asi - semantic space involved with the user @soft storm (/)

[soft storm]

lol

[soft storm]

Ts is my status now

[warm wasp]

*stares*
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/5P3kErv2I3Jh0h4I7SfwwSNKjh2d5cvwBNo0TKSVI8Q/%3Fsize%3D1024/https/cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/183528471031447552/953d6f67984ff8f6c1781a816d121ade.webp?format=webp&width=955&height=955

[sly wadi]

ma Julutu ↩️

[Reply to:](#1187029495203504168 message) isa —
c. animal, creature, being, to act/be/turn into an animal…

[soft storm]

Wow is that a me reference

[viscid lintel]

alo - hello (when answering a phone call, or to check if someone is listening, as in French allô or Japanese もしもし)
-# from French allô

[sly wadi]

å - (to hug a) BLÅHAJ

[karmic summit]

Sorry i am needed to take your good-nimisin-creating license away for 5 hours

[karmic summit]

Your good-nimisin-creating license is back, but please be cautious about what good nimisin you’re creating

[sly wadi]

good is subjective

ma Julutu ↩️

[Reply to:](#1187029495203504168 message) Sorry i am needed to take your good-nimisin-creating license away for 5 hours

[solid moat]

the only solution to this dillema is to merge the good and bad nimisin channels into one, thereby unsegregating nimisin for the rest of time

i wonder how long it'll take for this to be added to the constitiution

[glossy ruin]

anu: o ante e nimi tan "nimisin pona/nimisin ike" tawa "nimisin wile/nimisin musi" anu ante lili

[karmic summit]

huh

[burnt kelp]

teke
-# from Dutch 'denken'
think, thought

[glossy ruin]

seme la ni li isipin ala?

[karmic summit]

isipin 2.0 ((pilin 2.0) 2.0)

[solid moat]

se

• from Toki Pawole te, ultimately from English to

It's a bit hard to explain, so here's some examples and i'll tell you if your interpretations are correct.

sina pali e ona se li pona tawa mi
The things you make are good for me.

ona li toki se sina pakala e ona
They told me you ruined them.

mi tawa sijelo pi se ona li sewi e nena
I did a dance that lifted mountains. (I danced, my dance lifted mountains).

jan li toki tan se sewi li pana e toki tawa ona
Humanity speaks because God gave them language.

When used in place of the subject, se goes after the clause. When used in the verb or object however, se goes before. If there is stuff before and after the clause, then se goes before and after the clause. se can also replace e, the object marker. You can imagine it as everything se marks becoming one content word, and then deleting se.

This also removes the need for quotation words, at least in the object.

kin la ona li toki se "sina lape pi mute ike" se "o pali!"
She also said "You sleep too much," and then she said, "Get to work!"

please criticize my nimisin 🥹

I use ona in clauses to refer to the full clause as a whole, like how ni refers to upcoming sentences. According to ilo Muni, ni is actually used more than ona, which shocked me when I first found out, however if my nimisin was in pu, this might not have been the case.

I'm seeking an investment of 100,000 dollars for 20% stake of my nimisin.

[soft storm]

Is it one?

[glossy ruin]

more nasinsin than nimisin

[solid moat]

seme

[still karma]

josuta :3

weselu >:3

[still karma]

popakamataku (from Maori pō whakamataku) - halloween, day of the dead, samhain, trick or treating, hallows festival, fall festival

[waxen mountain]

pili - sickness, microscopic organism, parasite, pathogen

[glossy ruin]

seme la mi kx kepeken e nimi "tenpo musi"

[glossy ruin]

ni li jaki taso Y?

[wispy vortex]

btw 'wh' in maori is [f] or [ɸ] so i'd say popakamataku

[still karma]

wait really?!?

ig where i heard someone say it must've been wrong then lol

sorry

thank you!!

[karmic summit]

taumotherfuckertangihangakououou

[solid moat]

i go into more detail here
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:Two_squared/se

[solid moat]

mi wile se sina kepeken nimi "se"

[fierce karma]

I feel like this can be done with a proper adjective, like kala Blåhaj or kala Poja, or kala tonsi which i've seen quite a few people use :3 it doesn't have a verb usage this way but there's lots of ways to describe cuddling in toki pona :3

[solid moat]

mi kama selo e sina

[fierce karma]

amilo
-# From Esperanto "animalo", shortened slightly for aesthetics
Refers to all species under the class Animalia. In contexts where scientific accuracy is not desired or is irrelevant, it may exclude certain species that behave and appear more like plants or fungi (sea sponges for example). Unlike English and several other languages, amilo's semantic space always includes humans.
I feel there is a need for this word because I've seen several times where a trait shared across many different types of animals is described and I see a large piece of text like this: "akesi en kala en jan en pipi en soweli en waso [...]"

Hyponyms: akesi, kala, jan, pipi, soweli, waso

[warm wasp]

ijo tawa

(pilin)

[warm wasp]

looks like ki with less confusing syntax

[solid moat]

also ki with more uses!

[fierce karma]

,,, I had never considered putting nimisin in sona pona userspace, you genius

[warm wasp]

the one other problem I have with it is that it coincides with my own nimisin xd

[solid moat]

uh

other people have

i'm just following the crowd

[solid moat]

and like 3 other ones holy crap

i did not know there were that many se

[solid moat]

also i lied, se does have a sitelen pona glyph, i'm just too lazy, and dumb to add it to sona pona

[soft storm]

show us

[solid moat]

also it wouldn't fit in with the rest of the seli kiwen glyphs

[solid moat]

ok wait

se's sitelen pona glyph is any variation on the double bracket [[ ]] but i landed on this
(this also shows outdated usage of se, just remove everytime li, pi or e is at the beginning of a se fragment)

[urban schooner]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/_

[warm wasp]

lmao

[solid moat]

i tried braces { } and whatever i did for te in toki pawole

sitelen pona really ate up all of the good grouping symbols didn't they

the only problem it has is it might look like taso, but there are ways around that
like drawing it like this

[soft storm]

long boi

[solid moat]

or like this

[soft storm]

isn’t taso written the other way tho

[solid moat]

se is written mirrored sometimes, look at the example for it with all the other sitelen pona

[soft storm]

i see

[solid moat]

tenpo mute la sitelen pi nimi Se li jasima se li ante e ona tan sitelen ante

[crystal plinth]

konwe.

[wispy vortex]

i really dislike konwe the uses i see for it are just people calqueing english "life" because they don't know how to communicate the idea using toki pona

[crystal plinth]

fair

[late fjord]

LONNNNN

kusulipu o kepeken nimi kon 🥀

[solid moat]

toki pawole and the conlang i'm working on basically has a calque of english "life" (but it doesn't refer to things that have life in particular and more lifespans)

[solid moat]

o pini lape

[solid moat]

sanwa - from san + tawa + wawa + nanpa
means whatever would make it the best nimisin in every way

[stuck thistle]

eni - sama nimi "e ni:"
tan ni la sina ken pali eni nimi linja suli li ken lon
taso ken la ni li awen sama linja nimi mute

[wispy vortex]

tenpo mute a la mi kepeken nimi 'ni' lon nasin ni lon ala poka pi nimi 'e'

"mi pali e tomo tawa ni: mi en kulupu mi li ken awen lon tomo pona"
"nasin li ken pona lon ni taso: ona li wile ante e nasin ona"

tenpo ante la nimi "e ni" li lon ala pini toki

"mi toki e ni tawa ona: 'o wan ala e nimi'"

la nimi sina li kama seme lon tenpo ni

[stuck thistle]

ni li lon
tan kama sona la mi pakala

[solid moat]

kin la nimi "se" li pali e kepeken ala pi nimi sin ni /musi

[solid moat]

kataku
me and my friends were having a discussion on what is there more of in the world, doors or wheels? my definition for a door was

• something that sometimes lets things in, but sometimes doesn't
  my definition for a wheel was
• something that spins, and it spinning accomplishes something
  we never got to a consensus, but that got me thinking. that definition for door really sounds like a toki pona word!
  people generally use lupa to refer to doorways, but the simple purpose of a door which so many things in life share is harder to talk about

so the definition of kataku?
doors, windows, lids, caps, logic gates, filters, mouths, blinds, cabinet doors, drawers etc!
and the verb could be to gatekeep idk

not the hole, but the flap covering it

[warm wasp]

ken la ken pi nimi uta o suli kepeken nasin ni...

[solid moat]

pote kinda sucks someone find a different etymology

[warm wasp]

pake

:P

[stuck spear]

pota
from greek πόρτα

[onyx torrent]

i like pintu, from indonesian

[glossy ruin]

towe
"Doorway"

[solid moat]

but the whole point is that it's not a doorway
it's the door. like the wooden flapping thing

[tardy raptor]

kataku maybe?

a, penpo

[solid moat]

kataku li pona tawa mi

[sacred basin]

using uta for doors would be so fun

mi open e uta tomo

[rustic lagoon]

mi la ni li wile ala pali tawa sona

[sacred basin]

seme?

[rancid hull]

: Create one more nimisin, "puwatu" meaning outside(antonym of insa).
Now one can say
"kataku puwatu"

[solid moat]

maybe mouth was a bad translation

it would better translate to lips (or maybe jaw, but that's a bit more like the hinges of the door)

[tame axle]

i assume wheels are sike (pi tawa sike) to you

[solid moat]

i wish there was a word for wheels and screws and spinning in general BUT sike kinda overlaps too much with that for it to be useful

[humble ocean]

🚨 wenpi: weak, exhausted, tired, depleted, spent; basically "wawa ala"

From English "wimpy"

[fierce karma]

why not just use wawa ala?

[humble ocean]

for the same reason you wouldn't want to say "suli ala" every time you mean "small". it's longer, and sometimes when you say "suli ala" you don't actually mean "small", you mean "not big".

"wenpi" implies something has or had the potential to be in a state of "wawa" but currently is not.

here are some use cases:

• wenpi e X = to use up/exhaust/deplete resource X (X could be fuel for a fire, time for a task, food for a group, etc)

• X li wenpi = resource X is used used up/depleted/spent

of course you could just say something like "X li jo ala e wawa" for this.

also it fills in a gap in this pattern:

pona---ike
suli---lili
seli---lete
wawa---???

but it's just a personal nimisin, a "nimi pi jan wan". i don't expect it to catch on or anything.

[solid moat]

maybe it could also mean a weak point or a weakness

[nimble folio]

Yes just like wawa can mean strength

[solid moat]

what if

and just hear me out here

lili was the opposite of wawa

like how it's also the opposite of suli and mute

[nimble folio]

I could see that

[warm wasp]

arguably just anpa would do

[solid moat]

jasu - a priori
basically a calque of english "depend", "rely", and "condition"

n. condition
mi sona ala e jasu sona ona
I don't know if [they're smart or not/their knowledge condition]

v. rely on, depend on
kama ona li jasu mute e kama ona
His arrival really depends on their arrival

m. crucial? maybe? i didn't really think this through

[wispy vortex]

to me this is very ken-coded and wawa-coded

mi sona ala e wawa sona ona

kama ona li ken e kama ona

ante la "kama ona li suli tawa kama ona"

[forest anvil]

🚨 walu

n - need
v - to need
adj - needed, necessary

[wintry bay]

wile:
o:
ken ala [nimi] ala:

[fierce karma]

asomato
An abstract or immaterial concept which exists due to a process that is physically carried out by a material object.

Examples:
asomato ilo li pakala
The software is bugged

lon asomato li ken ala sama lon
Virtual reality cannot compare to reality

lawa asomato li ken wile
The mind can desire
-# Etymology: from Greek "ασώματο"

[solid moat]

pana?

or pali

sometimes pali and pana can overlap to me
like if a box iss emitting a weird chill, then poki li pali/pana e lete

[solid moat]

also it seems like asomato lon and lon asomato mean the same thing

not a bad thing, just a noticing

[solid moat]

also 4 syllable word 🤢

[fierce karma]

I agree

[idle fern]

I have one: "sewen" from the hungarian "szerencse." It would refer to luck, probability, and fortune
"sewen pona" = "good luck."
"sewen mi" = "my luck"
"sewen suli la (blank)" = "It is likely that (blank)"
"sewen lili la (blank)" = "it us unlikely that (blank)"
You could refer to something like dice as "kiwen sewen" and when you're losing a game you can say "musi ni li sewen taso!"
What do you guys think, is there already a similar one that I don't know?

[wintry bay]

i think this is a pretty interesting word, though there are many strategies for talking about this

most notably "ken" pretty much covers all the "probability" aspects (e.g. ken suli la, ken lili la)

and kama is pretty good when talking about destiny and fortune, the stuff that comes your way

[wintry bay]

also, dice to me will always be kiwen nanpa, the fact that calquing "dice rocks" actually makes sense in toki pona is hilarious

[cosmic mica]

Can I put positu in here even tho I made it as a joke?

[idle fern]

Awesome! Thank you for enlightening me as I am still pretty new to the language. I had never seen "ken suli/lili la" used before, but that makes sense. If you don't mind, how would you say that something, (like a game) is luck based?

[wintry bay]

personally, i really like using "nasa" to talk about randomness

[idle fern]

I don't see why not, it does say that funny nimisin are allowed.

[cosmic mica]

Idek if I can count it as high effort. It's from english "42" and means "life, universe, and everything" so like it's sorta just the easiest loan ever

If used it would function as a replacement for konwe

Hmmm I never thought about positu in regular convo.
"ma positu" could refer to the cosmos, or just to clarify "universe." positu ante could be or another universe. positu mun could be the lifespan of a star... is it a bad nimisin? Not necessarily

Maybe I should try to get it used

[round linden]

positu – ~post-ku~ 42: The life, universe, and everything. (Joke word coined by waso Pini on March 23, 2022 in reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)
← English ~ Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Forty-two 42 Forty-Two ‘The Life, Universe, and Everything ’

ae6bee nimipositu

[wintry bay]

so like, "you win this game based on luck" might to me be like "nanpa nasa pi musi ni li anpa e jan" (the erratic numbers of this game make people lose), there's probably a better way but that's what first came to mind

[idle fern]

Aha! Okay, thank you very much!

[tame axle]

pa "food, but like food food ykwim"

1. a meal that is made up of different ingredients eg. soup, burrito, fried rice
   2.can be generalized to a thing made up of many different constituent parts (non-homogenous) (see: wan, kulupu, linluwi) eg. christmas tree, flower, car
   etymology: from tp pan

i dont think its good at all but people told me it wasnt bad

[obsidian jackal]

alternate word (from the "fried rice" definition): sajan (from 🇯🇵 チャーハン)

(idk usually most toki pona words have a natlang origin)

[solid moat]

wali
explain, define, depiece, describe

matan
to be made of, material

these are both words from tokuwin, my tokiponido

[ancient vector]

The word 'kansa', borrowed from Finnish 'kanssa' meaning 'with someone'.
You could use it like kepeken, but without sounding like you abuse the person.

Mi tawa kansa jan pona mi (I'm walking with my friend)
Mi lon kansa jan Nelo (I am with Nelo)
Mi tawa musi kansa jan olin mi (I am dancing with my wife/boyfriend...)

I know that 'lon poka' also works but that always sounded weird and complicated to me

[wintry bay]

just as a note, "kepeken" never gets used for this purpose. It is sometimes translated as "with" because sometimes 'with' refers to using an instrument, but kepeken just doesn't have with's meaning of being alongside someone. Also, there are even more ways of expressing accompaniment, such as using 'en' for multiple subjects (e.g. "mi en jan pona mi li tawa" - Me and my friend are walking - I'm walking with my friend)
-# additionally, the first letter of a sentence isn't capitalized in toki pona, but that's besides the point

[ancient vector]

Oh you don't know what bad things I have seen. One time someone wrote 'jan mije li musi kepeken jan meli' and wanted to say they are dancing. It sounded NSFW to me 😂

[wintry bay]

ok but, did you correct their mistake? (assuming you were talking to them directly)
my point is, if "kansa" means "alongisde _" then it is not "used like kepeken" because kepeken simply isn't used this way

[weak citrus]

kan

usage

sandbox (ku lili)

definition

(preposition) with, among, in the company of

see also

kepeken, poka, en

⚠️ This proposed word is in the sandbox. It is not in use by the community.

[ancient vector]

Oh I see what you mean. I wanted to say: used like kepeken grammatically. As a preposition. Of course the meaning is different from kepeken's.

I did not correct them, it was a written work

[glossy ruin]

less of a suggestion, more of an observation:
je or we alternate pronunciations for "e" and nothing more - for ease of disambiguation:
e becomes je when following words ending in /i/ or /e/
e becomes we when following words ending in /u/ or /o/

[humble ocean]

@glossy ruin I've been thinking about making a variation of tp with no vowel hiatus between word boundaries because things like "...toki e ijo" are a bit clunky to say for me sometimes.

[fierce karma]

seems like a difference in articulation rather than a seperate word

[glossy ruin]

could the same not be said of ale/ali ?

[fierce karma]

that's different imo

[glossy ruin]

how so?
a different pronunciation of what is otherwise the same word for the sole purpose of making the word more distinct than it otherwise would've been ?

[fierce karma]

idk how to explain it

ale vs ali is more like the difference between aluminum and aluminium wheras this is like just the difference in articulation between two people

[stuck spear]

it's like spanish o vs u (and y vs e)

[shrewd sedge]

pakukin
-# from Tagalog “paikutin”
to rotate, to spin, to disorient, lost, misdirected, confused, unsure, spinning, uncontrolled

can mean any sort of “vagueness” or “unsureness”, basically getting “turned around”

[humble ocean]

did you break wuwojiti intensionally?

[shrewd sedge]

nope! fixed

i always remember wuwoji but never ti XD

mi pakukin e sona
“i mixed up the information”
jan mute pakukin li alasa alasa e nasin
“the lost people tried to find the path”

[onyx torrent]

a bit like “jule” from a different angle

[lucid aspen]

jule mention!

[pearl laurel]

lun
-# from Toki Pona luka
five; one-syllable synonym of luka when used as a number.

[solid moat]

not a fan

[glossy ruin]

seme la "~n" li lon lun

[pearl laurel]

mama toki li awen e nimi lu sama nimi pu sama nimi su la mi wile ala kama e utala tan ni 😇

[fierce karma]

sanpo
algorithm, operation, set of instructions, plan, any well defined process.
-# From Japanese and Chinese 算法

This can be the SP glyph (A possible depiction of a black box algorithm. Can also be interpreted as a combination of lipu and ante)

[warm wasp]

maybe a frame of a chinese abacus?

[fierce karma]

why does this look like a chinese abacus?

[lucid aspen]

mini nasin...

[wintry bay]

mini?

[solid moat]

good nimisin not sure where i'd ever use it

[fierce karma]

english word

it means small

[fierce karma]

sunki
heavy, dense; gravity
-# From Icelandic þungur

[solid moat]

ona li sunki
it's heavy/it falls?

[fierce karma]

it falls: ona li sunki

[solid moat]

i feel like there should be a distinction

so how would you say it's heavy

[fierce karma]

oh right

I'll remove the last two senses

[solid moat]

i feel like suli for heavy works

idk

big things are usually unweildy like heavy things

[fierce karma]

not neccasarily

a massive beach ball could be suli and sunki ala

a tungsten cube or something else made of dense material could be suli ala and sunki

[wintry bay]

i remember trying to make a toki pona measurement system and being so annoyed at how hard it is to distinguish weight from size in toki pona that i decided to add a word like this to my tokiponido lol

[fierce karma]

haha

[wintry bay]

it also could refer to thick liquids

[solid moat]

if i lifted a tungsten cube and said ona li SULI! i bet you wouldn't think it was reffering to the size of the cube

and rather the weight

[fierce karma]

what if you weren't lifting it, what if you were describing it to someone else and it wasn't even in the room?

[solid moat]

i still think suli would work

[fierce karma]

I would think it was big

I would be imagining a large cube

[rough mantle]

mi ken sewi e ona kepeken luka, taso ona li suli a! tawa sewi li wile e pali mute a!

[solid moat]

i mean you could also imagine an important cube

it's posible for suli things to not be large

[fierce karma]

yes

but i'd probably think you were talking about size before importance

[solid moat]

importance is a type of size

[fierce karma]

you know what i mean :P

[lucid aspen]

mental occupation

[fierce karma]

tonsi
transgender; non-binary

I didn't come up with this nimisin but it is a good nimisin

[solid moat]

eh
it implies that things that aren't modified with tonsi are cis by default

and that being non binary and trans are somehow the same thing

[pearl steeple]

nimimajuna spotted

[fierce karma]

not really

does not describing something as ilo lili imply it is large?

no it just means that the size isn't specified

[fierce karma]

I don't feel like it implies this

words in toki pona inherently have large semantic spaces and mean a bunch of stuff

if you wanted to specify that you're either binary or non binary you can do that too

[solid moat]

they mean one thing, and that thing can translate to multiple things in different languages

by lumping roofs and tables into 1 word, you imply that they're the same or similar somehow

[fierce karma]

id say its a pretty good overlap with the word trans, since most people consider enby to be under the trans umbrella

[fierce karma]

it's an umbrella term, it casts a wide net

I think that's fine

if people want to specify their identity further they can

[solid moat]

i got that argument from this vid, and while it does have a lot of bad points, i thought this one was pretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCA4U4hqfTk&t=1152s

[fierce karma]

[...] words referring to people have their default form used for cis people
what? this isn't true?
woman -> meli
trans woman -> meli tonsi
cis woman -> meli pi tonsi ala
This is incomparable to Esperanto's male default thing because it is very much possible to specify someone who is cis. If someone told me that meli implied a cis woman then i'd think they were a transphobe.

The only issue i have with tonsi is that it can refer to gender-nonconforming people, so I don't use it that way

(and i've not actually seen people really use it that way in practice either?)

[fierce karma]

imagine if the word "cis" didn't exist in english. You could just say "trans woman" and "not trans woman". If you wanted to refer to a woman who is cis you wouldn't just say "woman"

the argument in Esperanto is completely different because you can't negate a suffix, so you have to use the genderless form if you want to refer to men, which is bad

[fierce karma]

There's an extremely weak argument to be made that this is asymmetric because it describes cis people as "not trans people" but the dynamic between cis people and trans people in real life is already super asymmetric so it's fine to have things like this that help normalise trans folks

and transphobes seem to prefer using "not trans" instead of "cis" to describe themselves in english anyway, so it all works out in the end

@solid moat

[nimble folio]

I think not having the word while still having binary gender words is more problematic than having the word and having it be broad because toki pona words naturally are, therefore it belongs in good nimimajuna pi lipu ku suli

[fierce karma]

honestly i'm very happy with toki pona's three gender words

[tame axle]

//oh yeah how many nimisin for meat have been made

[fierce karma]

i can't think of any

[wintry bay]

not really a nimi sin but a word in a tokiponido i made is fyambre, meaning meat, flesh, corpse, or physical body

[soft storm]

turtle youtuber does not have the greatest takes

[lucid aspen]

i know one that just means "animal product" broadly but i don't remember if it included meat

[wintry bay]

nonwikan anu seme? /musi

[lucid aspen]

susu

[solid moat]

wouldn't it be better to more accurately describe the nature of your transness than have it hide behind a word

to specify my thoughts: i think having a word for just non binary people would be fine

however, if i can just say mi [word for non-binary] lon tenpo pini. mi mije lon tenpo ni in like two sentences, why have a word for it especially since it brings up these dillemas

in my opinion (which you should take for a grain of salt) it is kinda sexist to have a word for trans and not one for cis
what if there was a word for non binary and female but not male, and you had to say mi meli ala li [word for non-binary] ala. that's kinda what's happening for cis

[solid moat]

from how it looks, the sentiment was "if meli and mije warrant their own words, i think there should be a word for non binary too, to put them on the same level"
does this argument not apply for cis too? let's say it doesn't and you just say X li trans ala, well couldn't you do the same thing back for the argument for a word for non binary?

@fierce karma

[glossy ruin]

to me, "tonsi" in its meaning as nonbinary does not necessarily mean trans.
I've even seen some use it in non-gendered contexts (referring to consonants as kalama pini, vowels as kalama open, and semivowels as kalama tonsi)

[warm wasp]

it should just be translated to genderqueer tbh, thats a more unifying description that emphasises the commonality of ppl outside the normal gender binary (cis)

also I'm not actually sure about this: but afaik "non binary" was originally the main definition with "trans" being a maybe, or alt definition, and it just slowly became an equal part of the nimi without someone prescribing for it

and yea it's a bit annoying to describe flavours of nb because of that (eg mine), but I don't think it's like a cardinal sin that makes the nimi completely ruined or evil

[solid moat]

i never said it did, from how it's used in the community it can mean both non binary and trans, but not always at the same time
i don't have a problem with the non binary meaning, but i've explained the gripes with having a word for trans and not one for cis

[nimble folio]

We also have a word for loud but not quiet, because quiet is just kalama ala. I feel like tonsi is similar in that regard. We have a word for transgender but we don't need one for cis because cis is just tonsi ala. Not specifying tonsi doesn't mean cis, it just means it's not necessarily tonsi

Boring is easily translated as musi ala, usual is nasa ala...

Of course, there are antonyms such as seli/lete, suli/lili, suno/pimeja

But we don't need to introduce new words to mean the opposite of every existing word

I feel like it would just make the language roughly twice as big with not much payoff

I think it's fine we don't have an antonym for tonsi because tonsi ala works in all cases I can think of

Thinking about it more, I think seli/lete and suli/lili do need to have antomyms because they describe a spectrum rather than a binary, since seli ala is not necessarily lete, but I feel like tonsi doesn't have that issue so tonsi ala works as an antonym

[solid moat]

the difference is when you compare it with esperanto. if it's sexist to have the word for woman be person and have person refer to both men and people of unspecifid gender, wouldn't it be cisnormative to have the word for trans person to be person with a suffix (modifier) and have person refer to both cis people and people of unspecified transness

[nimble folio]

You're implying not specifying tonsi implies cisgender by default

jan can be either tonsi or cis, no conclusions can be made about their genderqueer status

jan tonsi is specifically genderqueer and jan pi tonsi ala is specifically cis

But jan on its own can be either

[fierce karma]

only if you use tonsi as a term with negative connotations
cis people don't need their own word, they have enough already

i feel like arguing for a word that means cis is like people arguing for a straight pride month,,,,, like, no??

[solid moat]

i'm not arguing for a word that means cis

[fierce karma]

what are you arguing for then

[solid moat]

i think a word for trans raises issues without a word for cis

[fierce karma]

hard disagree

the only argument that can really be made is that it's cisphobic (which is not a good argument)

[fierce karma]

not my nimisin:
konwe
life, animacy
ka
animal

[solid moat]

my tokiponido has this

wait wtf

why am i replying to something from 3 years ago

[solid moat]

ajuta

• n. aid, addition
• v. help, aid

nopin

• n. constriction, restriction, setback, subtraction
• v. discourage, hinder, impede, obstruct, limit

[warm wasp]

• ain't that just pona
• welcome back pake

[humble ocean]

mi la nimisin pake li pona. nimisin nopin li tan toki seme.

i like to use pake as "obstacle(s)"

[solid moat]

no because ajuta mi li tawa leko tu "my addition to the two blocks" is different from pona mi li tawa leko tu "my good towards the two blocks"

[warm wasp]

yea I realised later that you were putting math into it too
which ehh the semantic spaces of the two aspects aren't really close imo

[solid moat]

it's different from pake because pake is just a one and done thing, once you're blocked, you're blocked
but nopin is an active and subtractive effort. nopin doesn't necessarily stop you from doing the action, it just takes a bit away from the effort

but i guess they are kinda similar, i might have to put these nimi sin back into the workshop

[echo pier]

that's namako surely

[weak citrus]

help

provide assistance — pona, pana e {pona, sona, ...}, pali (tawa pali mi)

mi taso ala li pali e lipu. jan Lu kin li pali wawa.
    I didn't write the book alone. Luz also helped a lot.

Notes

Many translations are possible depending on the kind of help given.