sona.pona.la

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/isipin

[split grail]

or a page dedicated to thoughts??

[hot trout]

Hm, I wouldn't put it quite like that, how about "overlap" and then add criticism as an appendix to the perceived overloaded overlap with other words

[split grail]

ahh

that's fair

[hot trout]

Does anyone have thoughts on [[User:Jan Ke Tami/Oz words]]?

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:Jan_Ke_Tami%2FOz_words

[split grail]

o

hey Ke Tami

I wonder

[upbeat summit]

Whoa good work

[split grail]

how much time do you have in your hands

[upbeat summit]

I would just wrap the TP words in {{tp| }} and use {{n/a}} for the grayed-out cells

[split grail]

these also maybe should ahve the Latin script

2

[hot trout]

Yeah, credits

[hot trout]

Enough to read a book when reading a book is all I can do
Might have taken me 3 days. Embarrassingly slow? Maybe if I hadn't also prepared this table while reading. Triple win

[split grail]

jgsdlfkjsd

lukin Ke Tami

what is this in the credits

OH KEKAN SAN

shouldn't you group that with the other

[hot trout]

I didn't group my 2 cartouches together either
Could work either way...
Yeah I should put them together probably

[upbeat summit]

Is uploadable

[grand marten]

nasin sitelen [Twemoji] li lon nasin pana [CC BY] · sitelen [pona] li lon nasin [CC0] · la mi la ken

[upbeat summit]

oh right individual glyphs are okay to upload regardless

[mighty seal]

wow that is dedication

sorry for not putting page numbers

[hot trout]

It's the reason I print out the short stories from the yearly contest. Actual paper is more motivating

[hot trout]

part of the fun

[mighty seal]

i would have used mun, mije, n, kala, esun, anu, leko, unpa, misikeke but they just didn't come up in the stoyry in a significant way

my nasin doesn't really include meso, apeja, epiku, powe in a significant way

[split grail]

got it ok there are no men in the world of Oz

no fish either

[mighty seal]

i thought of artificially using the missing words but i didn't

like adjusting the story a bit to insert a random kala cameo

[split grail]

that's alright

jhfdhkkfgj

https://tenor.com/view/fish-goldfish-dance-headphones-swag-gif-18659659

[mighty seal]

i kinda did that with the kijetesantakalu reveal

[split grail]

OH THERE'S KIJETESANTAKALU IN THE BOOK?

← hasn't finished reading eheh

[mighty seal]

i am also relieved Ke Tami's analysis didn't reveal any typos in any cartouche

[split grail]

<3

did anyone proofread the formatting

[mighty seal]

ya but you never know

[muted sun]

was dorothy a kijetesantakalu the whole time 😭

[mighty seal]

98 is the pipi, i cannot remember 13

[split grail]

eheh

also missed opportunity to number paged in sp

13 is the jan pi weka waso

len ona li jaki

[mighty seal]

somehow i dont remember his clothes being dirty

[split grail]

dkdhj

[mighty seal]

i went over this lipu so many times i know many parts internally

the soko was added manually. the story didn't emphasize soko but the art had a lot of soko for one chapter's forest illustration, so i added in "soko mute li lon"

[split grail]

aah

that's cute

soko soko soko

[mighty seal]

and kokosila, ku, pu, su are unlikely to come up in a setting that isn't toki pona

[split grail]

kokosila can in a Esperanto one..

or

if you are creative and change 'not toki pona' to 'not dominant language' then,, . hmm

or talking about crocodiles

[grim mural]

this made me write out page numbers every 5 pages in my copy, and doing so I found out that lipu su pi jan Osu has exactly 120 pages

Could have easily been 116 pages, if there weren't so many empty pages at the end

so... hidden easter egg?

[hot trout]

there is a whole backstory about the flying monkeys that is about hetero love

Sonja didn't include it because it wasn't gay enough 😛

[grim mural]

scarecrow x tinman chapter when

[hot trout]

in the movie scarecrow has a FUCKING GUN
I didn't know that until last week

[grim mural]

That made me wonder whether Kansas has high gun ownership

Apparently it's kinda midrange for the US, at 32.2%

(a third of the population seems super high to me as a European though, heh)

but this is 2015 data, so maybe it was different in Dorothy's time

[mighty seal]

yeah there is a whole in-flight movie while they are being transported by the flying monkeys, and i felt it didn't advance the main story, so i couldn't really summarize the story within a story in a satisfying way

it's the biggest "cut" i made

[mighty seal]

i mean, this is the official reason

i considered making the bearded jan utala in emerald city a mije utala but i didn't feel the need to emphasize his gender

[mighty seal]

@hot trout you wrote "Which means these are the non-pu words that do appear in the book:

jasima, kijetesantakalu, kipisi, lanpan, majuna, monsuta, n, powe, soko, su, te, to, and I guess if you don't include these as pu words: kin, namako, and tonsi" but later you don't show any page taht has "n"

[grim mural]

same for powe

[mighty seal]

it's like you sorted the entire book in alphabetical order, it's beautiful

[hot trout]

edition Of Oz Pona the Toki Wizard Wonderful

[hot trout]

🤦 yep

[golden rock]

@vague aspen this edit does not agree with the most common analysis of Belarusian phonology

and ignores a later statement reflecting on [w] in Belarusian

[upbeat summit]

aad ddeeeffhi iiikln nn Oo (oooo PrrT TtuWWzz)

[golden rock]

@grand marten do you know how i could download a wiki (specifically the text) without messing with revision history?

[grand marten]

ni anu seme https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:Export

[golden rock]

is there a way i can get every page then?

[grand marten]

lipu ni la o tawa [[Special:Allpages]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:Allpages

[golden rock]

hm ig only copypaste

i need it for wikipesija so copypaste is doable but it would be good to think up a more automated option

[grand marten]

https://github.com/mediawiki-client-tools/mediawiki-dump-generator

[golden rock]

ooh thank

i was gonna ask why link to a fork, then noticed the original is on 2.7 lmaooo

[split grail]

@grim mural since you wrote about the Bible Project, are you on that server

can you ask them if they have/can make a sitelen pona version of a page

OH IT WASN'T YOU SORRY

ababa

@grand marten YOU

[grand marten]

mi

mi lon ma ona

[split grail]

yappie

mi wile e ni tawa lipu Juniko

[grand marten]

ni li tawa lipu wile pi kulupu [Unicode] anu seme

[split grail]

eheh

tawa

[grand marten]

mi toki

[split grail]

wawa

would also be good to find translations of the Qur'an and Torah and Bahai texts but it's okay if we don't

@mighty seal mama majuna pi sona sewi wawa o,.

btw to editors, remember it's better to upload free files to Commons

[mighty seal]

what do you need?

[split grail]

translations of these texts into sitelen pona

to showcase in the Unicode proposal

[golden rock]

@split grail fun archaeological discovery for today: jan Kipo had his own POS analysis and im struggling to comprehend it

http://tpnimi.blogspot.com/2010/09/parts-of-speech.html

[split grail]

oh

me reading 'pos' as 'piece of shit'

[golden rock]

jhfdjgfdkhjgl

[split grail]

this is just pu 2.0

[split grail]

https://www.tengg-online.at/blog/2024/01/26/kulupu-isale-o-kute/

WHY DO THEY
THEY WRITE JESUS WITH EPIKU?????????

[real latch]

"jo ale wawa epiku"
based actually

[golden rock]

[jelo · suno ·]

jesus is now a sun diety

[grim mural]

no problem :)

[grim mural]

Ah, interesting...
I can mostly follow it pretty easily, maybe because I've considered making something similar to this.

[golden rock]

can you explain the stuff about "modals" or whatever?

and just generally his content word classification

[grim mural]

I think modals = preverbs

[golden rock]

i think his dictionary marks which words are "modals" and theyre mostly adjective-ish

but he also has a separate "modifier" category

[grim mural]

Yeah, group M in his dictionary includes awen, kama, ken, wile

so does seem like preverbs

Like jan Juwan said, it's basically a version of pu's analysis

but pre-pu

and more detailed about how semantics change in different syntactic contexts

The main difference between this and pu is that he distinguishes function particles and interjections, which pu puts together

[golden rock]

ah k

i was bad at reading it

[grim mural]

I do agree that the info is not presented in the clearest of ways :p

Mainly because of some unexplained terminology

[grim mural]

Oh, also how he tries to have prepositions and preverbs derive their normal content word meaning in a regular fashion, instead of just assigning an extra part of speech to those, like pu does

[split grail]

isipin peta akule li slape ut'la

[split grail]

@grim mural @hot trout how do you transcribe your names into IPA

[hot trout]

You mean [ke'ta.mi]?

[split grail]

sorry

irl name

sjdflksjf

in German/Dutch

bc

mi [[jan Ke Tami]] e sina

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/jan_Ke_Tami

[split grail]

,

[hot trout]

[ʁeːt ˈza.mɪs]

[split grail]

o

[ɪ]

[grim mural]

Phonemically it's /'spɛnsər vɑn dər 'møːlə(n)/
Phonetically, I pronounce it closer to ['spɛnsəɹ̈ fɑn dəɹ̈ 'møʏlən] in my Netherlandic Dutch (Randstad) accent.

I'm not sure which would be better for the article

[split grail]

phonetically

[grim mural]

k

[grim mural]

The pronunciation was fine, don't worry :)

I think /'spɛnsər vɑn dər 'møːlən/ might be best to use?

It's agnostic as to whether you pronounce it in a Netherlandic or Belgian accent, and definitely close enough for non-Dutch people to use

and without that weird [ɹ̈] that might confuse people

(it's a sound that sounds super close to [ɻ], the "English R", but is technically different)

[split grail]

I know about phonetics, it is cool

molar r my beloved and beloathed

[grim mural]

sorry for mansplaining phonetics, lol

[split grail]

skdhldhdjdh

nooo

[grim mural]

I actually just now learned about the difference between [ɹ̈] and [ɻ], as I double checked my transcription using Wikipedia's "Dutch phonology" article

a few years ago the same article still described the [ɹ̈] sound as [ɻ].

[mighty seal]

@hot trout you can also add the front cover and back cover and spine if you want

[split grail]

awawa

seme a

sona wawa

forgot to write utala oops

[golden rock]

i feel like "try to attack" isn't "attempt to perform an action"

hm idk

[split grail]

noo

it's not just alasa

it's alasa UTALA

I fuxked up but corrected it

[[alasa]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/alasa

[golden rock]

ah yeye makes sense

[split grail]

very serious question ||have jan sin ever tried to use 'unpa' as the expletive 'fuck!'||

my friends (who are interested in linguistics but don't speak toki pona well) did that as a joke and now I thought about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViXSzU8UjbI

[grand umbra]

toki ni pi ma ike [4chan] li ken wile pana e "fuck the cold! heat is better"

o unpa e lete! seli li pona.

[grim mural]

I've seen it been talked about, but I don't think I've ever actually seen it been used like that

Or maybe I just forgot

[golden rock]

i concur with pensa

[grand marten]

supa

[hot trout]

I've seen that

[split grail]

gjsdflksdjfsdf

[split grail]

cache my beloathed

[mighty seal]

i may have asked before, but does the sona.pona.la wiki have a list of "top 20 most visited articles" over a 2-month period, i.e. the most useful or most often quoted sona that people need to read? if not, who can help me add this feature with whatever coding extension is needed?

i can think of at least one way to do it, by adding google analytics codeblock to every page

but maybe mediawiki has a better "add-on" that does the same thing.

please let me know who i should talk to

[grand marten]

ilo ni li lon · taso ike la ona li lon ala ma [Miraheze]

[mighty seal]

so we would have to change hosts maybe?

[grand marten]

nnn ken

taso wile ala

ken ante la mi ken alasa pana e ilo nanpa ante

[mighty seal]

sina pona. mi appreciate it.

[split grail]

https://web.archive.org/web/20210808212931/https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10e0w4Ojl7XsVn63x44jWQvp6rfBONeVK2_JD8CPfLFk/edit#gid=104238179

[split grail]

@grand marten any response from the Bible group

[grand marten]

ona li toki e lipu · taso sina kama sona e ona kepeken ala ona la mi toki ala e ni tawa sina · mi pakolo

[split grail]

gjsdlfsd

[grand marten]

taso ona li toki e ni kin → sina wile e sitelen sin la ona li ken pali

mi toki e wile ala tan ni → sitelen muuute li lon lipu anu seme

[split grail]

sitelen sin li ni anu seme. ona li sitelen pona e lipu ona

[split grail]

mute li pona

mi wileeeeeee

taso ni li awen lon: lipu li suuuuuuuliiiiiiiii

ni li pona tawa mi

[split grail]

KIN mi toki e wile mi tawa sina

[grand marten]

sina toki e "anu" anu seme

[split grail]

aa

mi pokolo

[grand marten]

ni la kolo likujo wan li lon

[split grail]

o

[split grail]

I just learn this today

did you knot that the image for 'Barcode' on Wikidata is from lipu tenpo
[[c:File:Lipu tenpo nanpa suno - ISBN.png]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/c:File:Lipu_tenpo_nanpa_suno_-_ISBN.png

[split grail]

!!

[grand marten]

jan len li sewi e ona tan seme

[hot trout]

sitelen ISSN anu seme

[split grail]

a

lon

[split grail]

very weird

[split grail]

mi [[sona pona:Discord]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sona_pona:Discord

[grim mural]

wa! nasa a

[split grail]

wwwwwhat

@noble gulch do you want to see this

pu comma number two??

source

[hot trout]

pre-publication speculation maybe? there was a lot of that around that time, iirc

[split grail]

yeah

possibly

[hot trout]

reminds me of the French Wikipedia "pu" that closes "pi"

[split grail]

hjgj

there isn't a chat for it so

@grand marten Seka is down??

:(

[grand marten]

a seme li pakala lon tenpo ni

ilo sona [PostgreSQL] li pakala · mi kama sin e ona la ale li pona · nasa

sina pona tan toki

[split grail]

there should be a page for [[Variant glyphs]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Variant_glyphs

[grim mural]

At the moment the major sitelen pona variants are all described at [[sitelen pona#Alternative glyphs]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sitelen_pona#Alternative_glyphs

[grim mural]

We could move that to another article if we want to describe more variants, but I feel like pretty much all the notable ones are already there

Unless you meant an article that isn't specifically about sitelen pona?

mama has two variants in sitelen sitelen

[split grail]

oh I meant in sitelen pona yes

[grand marten]

kin jan [Alonola] anu seme li sitelen ante e nimi lipu pi jan [Sonja]

[golden rock]

multe

so is he mubin or rubin

or are those long lost twins

[split grail]

who

where

[golden rock]

in academic articles on sona pona

from "where is toki pona used"

[split grail]

'Where is Toki Pona used' is being redone

because I want to move it to several pages

but it's workkkk

[golden rock]

that's not relevant to "where"

also this just reminded me

[split grail]

a

[golden rock]

of a uhhhh ig this is a horny meme so ill spoiler it here

||https://i.imgur.com/5JrWpc1.jpg||

[split grail]

gsjdfklsdfsd

what

os silly

[split grail]

that is relevant bc that page sometimes is stupid

[grand marten]

nasa sama li kama lon mi #sona-musi message

[split grail]

can you all help me find the translation of the Lord's Prayer

very old ones, like from Pije

for [[sewi]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sewi

[split grail]

speaking of that
@grand marten kulupu sewi o seme

[split grail]

the translation in the Bible project (Matthey 6:9-13) has both senses of sewi

[split grail]

nifty

[grand marten]

seme

[split grail]

sina toki ala toki e wile mi pi sitelen pona

[grand marten]

a

sina o toki tawa ona kepeken ala mi

[split grail]

jhkgfjkhg

nimi tawa kulupu li lon ala lon

a mi ken tawa

[golden rock]

shouldn't that one be in the edit history of the wikipedia page on toki pona?

[split grail]

why does this page have no categories
[[kulupu pi toki pona pi ma Anku]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/kulupu_pi_toki_pona_pi_ma_Anku

[split grail]

abababa maybe

on [[namako]], how can you move the expand button,. that is so uggy

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/namako

[grand umbra]

i found it! https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Toki_Pona&oldid=1130902388#Sample_texts

[split grail]

sina epiku

[grand umbra]

the article credits the text to "Bryant J. Knight", but the PDF that's the first source does use the name "jan Pije"

[grand umbra]

Zum Schluss füge ich die Übersetzung des Vaterunsers in Toki Pona von „jan Pije“ an, mit einer wörtlichen Rückübersetzung ins Deutsche:
To conclude, I'll append jan Pije's translation of the Lord's Prayer into Toki Pona, with a literal back-translation into German:

the pdf also links to jPije's website, which is on web.archive, but i can't find the Lord's Prayer on there

[split grail]

that's his real name

fjsdlkf

[[jan Pije]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/jan_Pije

[split grail]

also ,.

we still need images for [[meli]] and [[mije]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/meli
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/mije

[split grail]

Kita o, where are the woke trans images

🥺

isn't this [[jan]] rn

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/jan

[grand marten]

[ilo penpo o lukin ala]
there's no stock Aura afaict
maybe an unsplash aura but not a commercial squeaky-clean aura

[grand marten]

mi alasa lili · taso mi kama ala lukin e sitelen pona pi suli sewi anpa ala

[split grail]

a

[split grail]

hm

sona

[grand marten]

ken? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cavetown

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Freddy_McConnell.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chaz_Bono_(34209787233).jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Phillipe_Cunningham,_Minneapolis_City_Council_Member.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kumi_Yokoyama.jpg

[grand marten]

mi la ni [Phillipe] li ken

ni [Kumi] la suno li nasa

[split grail]

ahh so many people

this is complicated

because ideally

it would be multiple people right

it feels a bit weird to have one (1) man there, so like, it looks like we're talking about them specfically innnit

especially bc famous

[grand marten]

mute la jan pi suli ala li lon ala poki [Commons] 😔

[grand marten]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man

[split grail]

man

[grand marten]

la o pana e jan [Tepo] pi li mije nanpa wan

[split grail]

that's so true

[grand marten]

lon la mi ken,,

[split grail]

don't

[grand marten]

a ona li wile ala e lipu anu seme

la sitelen kin

[split grail]

men

[split grail]

,,n

I mean

he agreed to put his video from Wikicommons

but I do not want to assume that he wants an article

because of my pakala

anyway, it is a bit too silly and weird to have him as the image for 'man'

[grand marten]

Long

tenpo lon la mi alasa e meli

open la sitelen wawa https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bobrisky_cropped.png

taso suno li lili la n

[split grail]

:(

[grand marten]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kellie_Maloney_(16501001180).jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Foto_Lisa_van_Ginneken_4_(credit_Frank_Diemel).jpg

?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Corine_van_Dun_-_D66_Utrecht_(24953863108).jpg

!

taso ni li ken toki e kon majuna kin la n

wile mi pi suli poka li anpa e mi

ken? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2021-07-10_Tessa_Ganserer_0112.JPG

ilo kute li ike tawa mi · taso ona li lon sitelen mije mi kin laaa

n taso kule li toki e tonsi anu seme

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Marcella_Di_Folco_(4967295677).jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Es_increíble_que_estemos_reconocidos_como_el_país_más_igualitario_de_América_Latina”_14-50_screenshot_(1).png
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jayne_County_by_David_Shankbone.JPG

mi sona ala

[split grail]

mi tawa weka. mi kama sin. meli li mute li kama kin

[split grail]

https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/s/KYSGFwCzDV

mystery

[hot trout]

don't worry about it 😇

[vague aspen]

in russian in 2020 people would enclose an english word with two male sign symbols to mean that it is replaced with a word from gachimuchi

no i’m not making this up

example (cw unpa): ||я люблю ♂️ swallow cum ♂️||

[real latch]

i love philos♂phy

[grim mural]

https://web.archive.org/web/20200221113453/http://tokipona.net/tp/janpije/sermononmount.php
starting at verse 6:9

[split grail]

nimi un:pa

[grim mural]

also at https://wikisource.org/wiki/Toki_suli_pi_jan_Jesu_lon_sewi_nena

[split grail]

sina pona

[grim mural]

a a a

[split grail]

also there's amen which is translated as awen

in a later translation

[grim mural]

Yeah, there were various different versions based on Pije's original translation.

It's very possible that some of the changes even came from himself

But probably mostly from people who were convinced enough that their own nasin was better, that they edited the sample on Wikipedia

Not to judge, btw. I did actually like a lot of the changes that people made.

But you do get a bit of an editing war when everyone changes it to the way they like it best.

[grim mural]

I don't know why it does that. Maybe because it's used in a <ref>?

I noticed it but ignored it hoping that it's mainly a problem on my end and because I was too lazy to look for a solution

[split grail]

asfjkdslfsd

[split grail]

true true

[timber apex]

how do I edit a greyed out part of a table

[upbeat summit]

wdym

[timber apex]

it says it's a template content instead of a cell that I can double click to edit the text

[upbeat summit]

oh is it using [[Template:n/a]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:n%2Fa

[upbeat summit]

i assume you would want to go into source mode and edit it there

[timber apex]

ah I will try that

[timber apex]

kin la if I were to put musi nimi in Games should it be in originals or translations?

[split grail]

musi nimi is a title or a type of game

show pls

[timber apex]

https://tilde.town/~dustin/wordle-toki/

ni

[split grail]

ahh

I thought that it was already there, huh.

anyway, translations

[timber apex]

pona

[golden rock]

wat

also the switches just don't work

[timber apex]

a mi sona e pakala ni lon tenpo weka
mama la jan Tepo li ante e toki tan musi Wordle, ken la ona o pona e ni

switches seme

a mi sona
I just ignore them

[upbeat summit]

Can we reach out to the [[leko pona]] creator for more information so i can properly hyperfix on it

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/leko_pona

[upbeat summit]

Also i'm gonna create an article for sitelen ko and do you think we could justify uploading this for it https://i.redd.it/hx67zm1a35g51.jpg

[hot trout]

@odd heath nasin sitelen sina la mute li awen pilin pona a

[upbeat summit]

a whaa ona li lon ma ni Y?

the world of small

[split grail]

thinking thinking, what if we had like a

a section like WORD/Quotations

similar to Wiktionary

that would solve an issue that I feel with example sentences

they serve two purposes

1. explain to those don't know about a certain sense/function
2. prove that it exists, how it exists

[split grail]

in Wiktionary, they have example sentences by editors for (1) and then quotations from outside sources for (2), and those can also be very old, like basically Middle English

there so much history on
https://eo.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=Tokipono/Vortaro

[odd heath]

toki!
i'm here if you want any more info on leko pona 🙂

[vague aspen]

holy

it should be added to [[history of the dictionary]] or however it’s called

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/history_of_the_dictionary

[vague aspen]

[[History of the dictionary]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/History_of_the_dictionary

[split grail]

yeah

[golden rock]

oh smart

[upbeat summit]

Ee, okay so my main questions right now are:

• It looks like li and e always face perpendicular to the line, is that a hard rule? Does it apply to any other word classes like prepositions or preverbs?
• Are there any constraints on how basic-content-word glyphs should be oriented? (even if it's stuff like "orientations should be consistent", "certain sides are always up", etc.)
• And i guess just other glyph designs—understood if you want to save those for a larger post, although just knowing stuff like the pronouns, pona and ike, ala, la, and maybe pi or some prepositions would be pretty massive tawa mi

[split grail]

I handwrote the page numbers for su (curse you Sonja for not adding them)

on page 76, there's awen awen ehe

kulupu li wile ala awen awen li toki utala tawa jan kalama Osu
The group did not want to keep waiting and felt aggressive towards the Oz voice

[mighty seal]

i considered page numbers but i didn't

[split grail]

ahh why then

[upbeat summit]

the nasin nanpa would kama too pona

[hot trout]

tan pona

[split grail]

aa

not even Hindu-Arabic numerals tho?

[winter sparrow]

so cool! I was thinking of sitelen ko when I saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBbchaZQqsA

[grim mural]

Looks like the word list portion is (mostly?) exactly the same wording as the Classic Word List that used to be on tokipona.net

https://web.archive.org/web/20190716152334/http://tokipona.net/tp/ClassicWordList.aspx

[pulsar sigil]

Are there any notable “bad nimisin” (bad, low effort, or funny) aside from kijetesantakalu, which falls under the funny category ? I’m debating making it an article to go along with the “bad words” redirection page (which also includes profanity and ike)

[pulsar sigil]

This is so cool 😍

[upbeat summit]

I feel like that would be too opinionated

Couldn't really imagine Wikipedia having a page like "List of neologisms that suck"

[hot trout]

In terms of the profanity article, omekalike and okepuma are borderline unused words
There are... very very many words that would meet your broader criteria

[golden rock]

as a dictionary maintainer i can confirm this would just not work

[pulsar sigil]

true lol, I was thinking more a page on purposefully bad nimisin, but maybe I should just make it redirect to joke words

[upbeat summit]

I tried to do like a general overview

[golden rock]

even the concept of a "joke word" is too blurry to use consistently

[odd heath]

• li, e, la, en and o all possess the same flat shape. they're usually "facing" the next glyph like you observed, but it's not an obligation, as their shapes should'nt leave any ambiguity anyway.
• same applies to other leko. they all have a "standard" orientation, which is the one i worked with and will seem the most natural i think; but you can rotate them any other way.
  they're all distinct, but for a 3D reader like you and me some angles will be less easy to read (for instance two different glyphs turned upside down may just look the same)
• i still intend to share the whole lexicon, i just met technical difficulties that set me back for a while. i can share the glyphs you are interested in in the meantime, no problem

[upbeat summit]

👀

Thanks, and i would love that yes

[pulsar sigil]

I thought that was ||ground beef|| at first and got really scared lol

[odd heath]

a a a

mi pakala. o pilin monsuta ala a

@upbeat summit those are the five flat shapes i talked about. i'll try and take more/better pictures soon

[hot trout]

You 3D printed them? Does that mean you have all of them available in some file format?

[odd heath]

i did. so far around 50 are printed, so it's still in progress but the files exist already

[hot trout]

Well, that might be a way to quickly make 2D graphics

[odd heath]

true! good thinking

[hot trout]

And it's work you could offload to others who are interested in leko pona

[odd heath]

that'd be very kind (and appreciated!). i love working on this project, but i'll admit as much as i like 3D modeling and everything, it's sometimes hard to get my head around some aspects of it

[split grail]

https://lipu-sona.pona.la/sitelen_pona.html

@upbeat summit silly things

[upbeat summit]

have seen

How much are the rest of these used

Do we have fancy data for that yet

[split grail]

no but like

🥺

making Lepeka add them

[median schooner]

does spl have its own discord server, ?

[upbeat summit]

I suggested it

and then it flew off the radar

[median schooner]

you should get one i think spl is very bigly

[split grail]

spl?

oh no
https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/s/g04Se7bvvh

[grim mural]

sona.pona.la

[split grail]

oh

hjgvcfghjkl

should it?

[grand marten]

mi en mun la toki pali pi lipu ni o lon lipu ni

taso mi ale li awen toki lon tomo ni

[split grail]

lon

kulupu 'kama sona' la tomo li lon kin

@upbeat summit o tawa tomo ni

[upbeat summit]

ρωxω😪

[split grail]

roxo

[upbeat summit]

And why they ourple?

[split grail]

who

[upbeat summit]

roxo

[split grail]

jhgjfjg

[split grail]

[[tk pon]] la do we have somewhere to categorise abbreviation systems?

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/tk_pon

[split grail]

alright

firstly

should [[Abbreviations]] and [[Acronyms]] be merged?

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Abbreviations
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Acronyms

[upbeat summit]

i think that would get cluttered

[split grail]

and also shoudl we have a template for linking to many abreviation systems

[split grail]

why so

they are very similar in scope

[upbeat summit]

how many more abbreviation systems are there

[split grail]

idk

maybe a section or something??

[split grail]

abbreviations has

• nimisin
• sitelen pona abbr
• headnouns and numbers

acronyms has

• initialisms for some phrases
  • including headnouns
• sitelen pona abbr
• nimisin

these are very similar to me

and I think if someone wants to learn about these nimi lili, they should be put together into an article

there is a little difference in like, the nimisin, as they have different processes to shortening, but I still think it holds

and this process would be fun to talk, becuase you can see in how speakers abbreviative names in speech. it is similar to how Japanese or Korean do it, taking syllables from each word

[upbeat summit]

concept : what if this resulted in a leko pona mod for Minecraft

them's squares kin

[grand marten]

Leko Pona Resource Pack

[odd heath]

hehe. yeahh it'd work pretty well in Minecraft i think
some time ago i was working on it with a user who suggested that

i just went through my convos and it appears they deleted their account... i still have some .json files from this though
i know there was one more step to integrate them into a pack but i didn't do that part; i could look into it

in any case i agree Minecraft would be a perfect environment for this kind of script!

[grand marten]

musi [VRChat] li ken pona kin

[odd heath]

lon a!

[grand marten]

@astral cargo li pali e ma pi toki [pona] la

[grim mural]

jan Makeja asked in #learn-toki-pona-2

How do you express fear or horror or scared wiþout using monsuta?
Which reminds me,

I think it could be a good idea to have a section in word articles with examples of how you can express the word's semantic space without using the word itself.

Of course that's useful for nimi sin, but also for more widespread words, I think

Though it would be a bit hard to write a good section like that objectively/descriptively

[timber apex]

[[Nonstandard_number_words#san]] la can someone help change saam3 to saam1
totally did not somehow misremember my sona pona password

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Nonstandard_number_words#san

[real latch]

fixed shld b correct now

[dark tree]

emoji writing system from April 2015!
https://github.com/holtzermann17/toki-pona-emoji/blob/aef7b4e64fd5e854e88e9a7559a42acf5c6edbbf/README.org

i think this might be the origin of Sitelen Emoji's 👉mi 👈sina

[hot trout]

how is this the origin, and not just sitelen Emoji?

[dark tree]

i assumed it predates it, but i don't actually know how old Sitelen Emoji is

a more recent emoji attempt, but incomplete #sona-musi message

only goes through "o"

[timber apex]

nvm on the password I just made the silliest mistake ever on it smh
taso sina pona a soweli o

[dark tree]

rendition of "poki suno lili"/wasoweli and two other songs, in sitelen jelo, using lots of alternate glyphs
#912286596517220363 message

a couple citations for the nasin of [[nasin pi sitelen jelo]], which iirc is [citation needed]
#sona-musi message
#912286596517220363 message

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/nasin_pi_sitelen_jelo

[grim mural]

I'm sure it didn't exist in 2015

it was more like 2020

[dark tree]

June 2019
https://omniglot.com/conscripts/sitelenemoji.htm

Sitelen Emoji, also known as sitelen pilin in Toki Pona, was compiled from earlier attempts of making an emoji script for Toki Pona in June 2019.

i wanna know what the other attempts are

[grim mural]

there were many

I saw so many bad attempts that I started to think that a good way to write Toki Pona with emoji was impossible

until I found out about Sitelen Emoji and I was like "oh... this actually isn't half bad. I wouldn't mind using this."

[dark tree]

yeah Sitelen Emoji is way better than the 2015 attempt

in fact many of the things that bother me about Sitelen Emoji come from the 2015 attempt

pronouns, sexism in meli/mije, reliance on color vision for the color words

[grim mural]

I believe the reason Sitelen Emoji worked so well is that they used voting to determine what emoji to use instead of one or two people deciding whatever made sense to them specifically.

[dark tree]

yeah absolutely

[dark tree]

do you know where i could find some?

it would be cool to compile as many as possible

[grim mural]

I don't remember where I found them, but you could definitely find at least one more on the Facebook group, I think

if you search for "emoji" in posts predating 2019 or something

[grim mural]

there were plans to fix the color words in the next round of voting, by using fruits for laso/loje/jelo and iirc the coffee emoji for pimeja

But the main organizer of Sitelen Emoji stopped being active in Toki Pona / Toki Ma stuff before that happened

IIRC, in an attempt to make it match sitelen pona better, I also proposed 🌱instead of 🌴 for kasi, 🐑 instead of 🐒 for soweli, and ⚪ or 🔘 instead of 🐚 for ijo. But those also never made it to a round of voting.

[dark tree]

oh interesting

thank you for this context

i'm not sure who Tepan is but here are some glyphs by them
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-lpVAWdgPXlm69V2tvvME54AzJNPbUi642ClSxUzPqI/htmlview?mibextid=S66gvF#

[grim mural]

Tepan is probably Stephan Schneider

He had a lot of toki pona content on Github, which he took down but is mostly still on archive.org

https://web.archive.org/web/20200118083845/https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona

[dark tree]

ooh i like this list
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sitelen/permalink/1720752417979136/

a or kin 😤
akesi 🦎
ala 🙅‍♀️
alasa 🏹
ale or ali ♾️
anpa ↘️
ante 🥸
anu 👯‍♀️
awen 🦥
comment by Elissa Thompson
https://m.facebook.com/groups/sitelen/permalink/5139965706057773/?comment_id=5141109462610064

[dark tree]

incomplete list, which interestingly uses 💋 for unpa
https://quizlet.com/99890849/toki-pona-emoji-flash-cards/

oh cool, Tepan's list is here
https://web.archive.org/web/20190704113436/https://github.com/stefichjo/toki-pona/blob/master/nasin-sitelen.md#Emoji

also featuring meli/mije sexism

did old Unicode not include 👦 or 👩?

it also includes the weird pronouns

[golden rock]

Woman was approved as part of Unicode 6.0 in 2010

[dark tree]

hm, so it's old enough to be in any of these lists

[golden rock]

woman is almost 14 years old now

old enough to be on discord

[vague aspen]

didn’t tonsi not exist yet

yeah it didn’t

[dark tree]

by meli/mije sexism i mean using a child👧 for meli and an adult👨 for mije

[vague aspen]

ohh

idk why then

[grim mural]

Probably out of well-intentioned pragmatism, because the child's twin tails look more obviously feminine and the adult's mustache looks more recognizably masculine.

But that said, I agree that it's an unfortunate tone deaf choice

[vague aspen]

👧👦👩👨 were all added in 6.0

yeah

they could’ve picked 🚹🚺

[dark tree]

i've seen one or two proposals that use 🚹🚺

i like them

[grim mural]

what about tonsi tho

[dark tree]

hmm my nasin is currently asymmetric
👩 meli
👨 mije
⚧ tonsi

🧑 jan

this would maybe be an improvement?
🚹 mije
🚺 meli
⚧ tonsi
🧑 jan

i kinda like the idea of reserving every person emoji for jan

[grim mural]

personally I'd prefer ♀️♂️⚧ for the genders, I guess

More symmetrical

And easier to read when small than the bathroom icons

[dark tree]

me too, but they show up weird on iOS

[grim mural]

ah

I thought Discord used Twemoji on every platform

[dark tree]

i want sitelen jelo to work on every platform, not just discord

[grim mural]

Oh, I thought you meant that ♀️♂️ look weird on iOS on Discord specifically

Is it a problem on all/most apps?

[dark tree]

yeah, Apple considers those symbols to be text, not emoji

[grim mural]

That's silly

[dark tree]

ehh they existed well before emoji

and they are useful to include in text that doesn't otherwise include color emoji

[grim mural]

Well yeah, but aren't there variation sequences to specify when it's an emoji?

Like with the arrow emojis

[dark tree]

i think so yeah. i wonder what's the default, color or no color

[grim mural]

I found a list where you can check
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscellaneous_Symbols#Emoji

[dark tree]

i guess it's up to the font?

[grim mural]

My browser does the text one by default

Oops, I meant to send a cropped version

[dark tree]

interesting, for me snowman is emoji by default

[dark tree]

also comet, clover, skull&crossbones

[grim mural]

Weird that for me the text versions of coffee and umbrella fall back on a different emoji font

[dark tree]

and everything in the meli+mije row except for meli+mije

[grim mural]

Oh, to my surprise the owner of the Sitelen Emoji website was still active on the Sitelen Emoji discord server about 6 months ago.

Perhaps he could be convinced to collaborate for an updated version of SE

If we / other people organize polls and such

And other things he might not have time for or interest in

[dark tree]

oooh that could be cool

i think the idea of democratically picked emojis is really interesting
but i counted once and it was only a tiny minority of glyphs that were actually picked that way

i wanna say 21 of them

[grim mural]

Oh really? I assumed it would be most of them.

So I guess they probably switched to yearly open voting after SE 1.0, when suggestions for changes began to come in

I only became properly aware of them shortly after the current version came out

So I don't know much about how they developed to that point

[split grail]

I wanted to do something like thissss

especially for controversial nimisin like kokosila and isipin and uh

there are more that I forgot

people will continue to use them, until you tell them better options

[dark tree]

kokosila: penpo ala

[split grail]

sobbing

[upbeat summit]

counterpoint, bathroom signs are a symbol of oppression

there is probably a better way of phrasing that but like am i wrong,,

anyway i finally figured out what the hell you call this btw https://sona.pona.la/wiki/pan#sitelen_sitelen

[dark tree]

yeah but so are the toki pona words meli and mije

[upbeat summit]

yeah we should really knock them out of core tier

[timber apex]

I was looking through articles of nimi namako and saw some sitelen sitelen of them that I've not seen before
is there a place that contains all the ss ("officially") created, even of nimi pi ku ala?

a kasi

[grim mural]

this is the official list
https://jonathangabel.com/toki-pona/dictionaries/glyphs/

which is only nimi ku suli

(minus pu and ku, which are spelled phonetically)

[timber apex]

ya I know about this

[grim mural]

I'm not aware of any place that lists proposals for other words

if that is what you mean

[timber apex]

hmm
maybe gabel displayed some of the other glyphs somewhere but I don't remember seeing them in the website
so far as I remember I saw glyphs for tuli, po and pata in sona pona

I'm assuming gabel made those too (so like "officially" as in made or endorsed by gabel)

[grim mural]

hmm, all of those images say "drawn by Aronora" in the file name

pata is jan+sama combined, it seems

[split grail]

yeah

nimi pata, peta, kapesi, san, po li tan jan ni

ona li sitelen e ona tawa lipu tenpo

mi toki tawa ona: o pana e ona tawa mi o pana tawa sona pona

[timber apex]

a!
ken la lipu o toki e ni: sitelen ni li tan ala jan Kapo li tan jan ni

[timber apex]

kin la I'm guessing there's a known issue with displaying linja sike isn't it
cause it's just giving sitelen Lasina for me

see lipu pi nimi majuna

[split grail]

we don't have linja sike installed do we

[mighty seal]

how do i upload some images to the wiki?

it is to add examples to [[nasin sitelen kalama pi linja lili]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/nasin_sitelen_kalama_pi_linja_lili

[hot trout]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:Upload

[mighty seal]

sina pona

[split grail]

ah

if it just experimental, maybe put it in a user page?

but that's sweet

[split grail]

later I should edit [[semiparticles]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/semiparticles

[grand marten]

ike la mi pakola e poki pi toki ni li sona ala e ni :(

[upbeat summit]

KASI is missing from [[Dictionary of luka pona]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Dictionary_of_luka_pona

[split grail]

y'know

that dictionary sucks btw

because it is hard to add to it :(

and there's also Linku

[hot trout]

Yea

[upbeat summit]

how can we improve it

should we create a template for a row

[noble gulch]

It's definitely the same person: check out the signature on this form post, for example. http://forums.tokipona.org/viewtopic.php?p=14369#p14369

I don't have an account on the forums so I can't index by username (is the signup still broken? I should check).

[noble gulch]

Ah but good point: this might be another Tepan. Hmm.

[split grail]

Tepan is Stephan Schneider, check his GitHub

[vague aspen]

dear sona pona editors, for the love of me, please use typographic quotes and apostrophes.

[mighty seal]

“ and ’ and such?

instead of " and '

[vague aspen]

yes

they are better

[mighty seal]

https://static.miraheze.org/sonaponawiki/e/e8/ma_Sijelalijon.jpeg sierra leone

[real latch]

sijela li jon

[mighty seal]

sijel ali jo n

[timber apex]

mi la ma Sijelalejon
nasin sitelen kalama en nasin ni o ken ante e nimi ale e nimi ali

[upbeat summit]

mi sama ni: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Quotation_characters

Curly quotation marks and apostrophes are deprecated on the English Wikipedia because straight quotation marks and apostrophes are easier to type reliably on most platforms.

[split grail]

no.

[split grail]

thank you

[split grail]

they are not and I will fight you

[hot trout]

„hmm idk“

[vague aspen]

why

[vague aspen]

why

[real latch]

curly quote marks are hell to format

and theyre not very consistent

also the straight one just look neater/more formal

[split grail]

^ this

those are mostly a matter of style, and our style is not that

[split grail]

[[Semiparticles]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Semiparticles

[split grail]

mi pana e sona lili

this is taken from kala kala and Juli's work below

which I should cite more often

it is pretty good

if it wasn't for me wanting to do a lot of stuff, there would be more at the grammar page from Juli

[grand marten]

https://web.archive.org/web/20131130132329/http://failbluedot.com/toki_pona
pipu pi penpo peka

[upbeat summit]

Working on creating [[Category:Articles with dead external links]] so that it can hopefully be uncreated later,,

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Category:Articles_with_dead_external_links

[upbeat summit]

If anyone can help, go through [[Special:RottenLinks]] and replace broken links with archived copies if any exist, otherwise add {{dead link}}

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:RottenLinks

[upbeat summit]

And see this kind of thing is why it'd be useful to have a separate server, with a forum channel, with threads to track this stuff

~~ I am tempted to make one myself~~

[split grail]

hesljfsdf

[upbeat summit]

what's so hesljfsdf about that

@grand marten necesitamos un servidor tbqh

[split grail]

do it

[upbeat summit]

should i

[split grail]

why not

[upbeat summit]

a wha huh

[split grail]

shh

[upbeat summit]

https://discord.gg/mMZa97bZXB

[upbeat summit]

@split grail o

[split grail]

I was pinged

oh

HOWEVER

i ma eepy

[grim mural]

Nah, IMO curly quotes are definitely more formal

straight quotes are widely used in informal settings (like chat rooms) and curly quotes are widely preferred in formal publications (like books and newspapers)

I used to strongly prefer straight quotes as a teen. Now I don't have a strong preference, but I do sometimes make an effort to use curly quotes to make a text look more professional and refined.

But for a wiki, straight quotes are definitely more practical, as the wikipedia quote said

[real latch]

that's fair

[upbeat summit]

Can someone pin

[vague aspen]

yeah

i’ll always use curly quotes unless i’m writing something in the homestuck style, which used it because of the aforementioned reason

[upbeat summit]

@odd heath Do we have permission to use your leko pona images on the wiki?

[odd heath]

toki! sure, i don't mind at all.

thanks for asking

[upbeat summit]

(Added)

[opal ermine]

hey is this is spreadsheet with an attempt to comprehensively document every toki pona song

because I've been looking for exactly that

[golden rock]

it is, however two notes:

1. it's mostly derived from this playlist, which is well maintained
2. i have not updated the spreadsheet since i made it. updating would involve adding like a hundred entries
   if that doesn't bother you, you can find it here

[split grail]

just help contribute

also hiii Misali

[willow jacinth]

hello, I was reading through sona pona like I often find myself doing, and I noticed that the Semiparticles article claims that taso is a content word meaning “alone”, but this usage is not reflected in the dedicated taso article

[dark tree]

using taso as a content word is uncommon in my experience

i would even call it experimental, like using kin as a content word

[timber apex]

id still think it's noteworthy, but perhaps with a disclaimer

[willow jacinth]

I mostly said this since it’s on the semiparticles article, where it being experimentally being used as a content word seems ill-fitting, especially if the taso article doesn’t already mention it (which it doesn’t)

I could see it being experimentally used as a content word, but like, this isn’t reflected (afaik) anywhere else on sona pona

[split grail]

hm, I thought that this was more common

like,

mi jan taso
taso here is a content word

taso mi jan pona
taso here is a particle

[split grail]

semiparticles are a tricky part of grammar, so thank you for pointing this out :>

[willow jacinth]

they indeed are tricky a a

[split grail]

also if you'd like to help contribute, we have a dedicated server

https://discord.gg/mMZa97bZXB

[willow jacinth]

:o !

[split grail]

oh do you mean taso as a head

taso li pona

[dark tree]

yeah

and in "mi jan taso", taso can be analyzed as a particle

[split grail]

it can but like

why

[timber apex]

:o kin

[split grail]

it makes as much sense to analyse as a normal modifier

[dark tree]

cuz content word generally refers to a word that can be used as a noun, verb, adverb, adjective

[split grail]

because it has semantic space and doesn't do anything funky

it doesn't do anything about grammar

[dark tree]

i would maybe replace "content word" with "adjective" or "modifier"

[split grail]

yeah

a modifier is a type of content word

[dark tree]

hmm

idk linguistics

[split grail]

mi jan pona
^ same grammar as mi jan taso, also a modified

*r

hmm

you could replace taso with ijo and it holds grammatically

I am something person

it sounds weird in English

but oh well

[willow jacinth]

mi taso e akesi

this sounds like weka tbh

[split grail]

or maybe like

I lock it into a box/cage

so it is alone

:(

[upbeat summit]

If you just have mi taso. that seems pretty natural to me

[grim mural]

To me, "mi taso" feels like just a noun phrase. I can't really think of it as a sentence, unless I force myself to think of other ways of analyzing it.

I'd personally call that non-standard, but I'm also definitely sure that there are people who would disagree with that.

I guess it's one of those edge cases that depend a lot on one's personal nasin and intuition for Toki Pona grammar

[willow jacinth]

nimi Taso li nasa taso (musi)

[grim mural]

heheh

I've always seen "taso" (and "kin") as a "modifier-only content word" so to say. Because I saw them as syntactically behaving the same as any other modifier, the only difference being that they can't be used as a head (except in la phrases)

"taso" is also defined as an "adjective" in pu when used to mean "only"

and "kin" used to be defined as "modifier" in Sonja's pre-pu material

So my analysis was that "kin" is only defined as "particle" in pu because it is synonymized with "a", and pu only really teaches "a" at the end of a sentence.

However, in the sona.pona.la server jan Kekan San made a strong point that when applying "taso" to something that has pi in it, people usually put it at the end rather than before the pi

And that's often interpreted as modifying the entire phrase, including the other side of pi

[willow jacinth]

mi kepeken nimi Kin lon nasin mi la mi pini e kulupu nimi kepeken nimi Kin

ijo nasin:
“mi toki pona kin e pali ona”
“wan pi ilo sona kin li jo e jan mute”

[grim mural]

The example he used was "jan sona pi pali kasi taso"

[willow jacinth]

a sona

[grim mural]

People saying "jan sona taso pi pali kasi" is very rare

[willow jacinth]

I’d agree

[grim mural]

Although... 🤔 arguably "jan sona pi (pali kasi taso)" isn't actually very different in meaning from "(jan sona pi pali kasi) taso"

in most practical situations

[willow jacinth]

kin and taso are interesting
they work like postpositions for an entire predicate i.e. “(particle) (content words) kin/taso”
or they work like a preposition for an entire clause

[willow jacinth]

hmm true! sona pona

[dark tree]

i'm trying to think of an example of a pi phase where i would add taso to the head instead of the pi

mi jan wan taso pi toki pona

[hot trout]

toki ni li pona

[dark tree]

mi waso wan taso pi kulupu ni
mi waso wan pi kulupu ni taso
i think putting taso at the head here creates a different meaning

i'm only one bird in this group
i'm one bird in only this group

[willow jacinth]

n lon

I think an important thing I want to add to this particular discussion is usage of taso/kin la

[split grail]

jan li taso

[hot trout]

jan li taso la ona li jan taso
jan li kin la ona li jan kin
jan li Ke li Tami la ona li jan Ke Tami?

mi ken ala kepeken. mi ken ala sona

[grim mural]

that sounds ungrammatical to my intuition

although I know rationally that it is in fact a thing that some people do

But I guess I haven't seen it enough for my subconscious to recognize it as a real thing that exists in Toki Pona

[willow jacinth]

considering the updates to “Nonstandard color words” with sunta/kewe, “List of words” could be updated to reflect that addition

[outer stirrup]

n tan seme

[split grail]

I mean

why to have that

I don't think it is necessary to emphasise Sonja's role

BY THE WAY TEPO!!

we have a dedicated server

https://discord.gg/mMZa97bZXB

mu

[willow jacinth]

there’s arguments for and against mentioning jan Sonja

• for — kapesi and unu are both made by jan Sonja. kapesi is notable for being an old word from around 2002, while unu is more popular presumably due to being coined by jan Sonja in 2020. nalanja and peta are not as notable; they were made by other people
• against — kapesi and unu are both in ku, which makes them more notable. nalanja and peta are not, and likewise are less notable

personally I’m in the against camp

[median schooner]

i can lock this thread

and just leave link

[split grail]

should you tho,,,

I mean, if people just want to say something it's fine

[upbeat summit]

i don't want to force people to enter the server to discuss stuff

[grand marten]

toki taki li ken pona

[chrome bear]

Is the Tuki Tiki Event logo in it yet

Btw the link to the uhhh

Tuki Tiki Logography in the Tokiponidos page is dead

[hot trout]

[[tuki tiki]] what link?

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/tuki_tiki

[hot trout]

oh wait, in [[titi pula]]?

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/titi_pula

[chrome bear]

I did not know there was a separate page for Tuki Tiki

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/tokiponidos

[chrome turtle]

[tokiponidos]

[chrome bear]

You guys should add it

And also previous logos the server has had

Can someone change the following part in Fonts from
'As the name suggests, any sitelen pona character is made out of blocks that fit into a box of 5 times 5 blocks. To do so, it sometimes relies on alternate versions of the glyphs. Of all computer-installable pixel fonts, it achieves the lowest amount of blocks'
To
'As the name suggests, any sitelen pona character is made out of blocks that fit into a box of 5 by 5 pixels. To do so, it sometimes relies on alternate versions of the glyphs. Of all computer-installable pixel fonts, it achieves the lowest amount of pixels'

[hot trout]

You could change it yourself

idk if pixels is accurate - usually the font is scaled in a way that one block is many pixels wide

[split grail]

I will dw

[odd heath]

@upbeat summit i did some 2D views of the leko pona glyphs

i'm thinking about doing the rest of the 120 this way.

by the way, i really appreciate your work for the dedicated sona pona page, it's great.

[split grail]

ooo

btw if you'd like join our server to keep updated

(in the pins)

[upbeat summit]

Exciting*!!* Thank you!

I like the number logic behind the pronoun glyphs

[odd heath]

i'm glad to hear that 😁 i like the way it went. i tried to create patterns for some nimi that were related just like these

[odd heath]

sure! just made my way there. sina pona

[upbeat summit]

Oh yeah and can we upload your diagram

[odd heath]

which diagram? sure! (just got it a a)

[flint rover]

Is there a meaning behind the choices of the cube designs?

Specially for more abstract concepts

For example, ale, pona, mute, kala, tan, tomo, wawa, lawa, unpa, ken, mani and moli

Well, maybe pona is like that because it’s the simplest shape (just a cube)

[odd heath]

yeah, i intended to make the shapes relevant to their meaning. some of the them were harder than others but when explained it should make sense i think

[odd heath]

ale is a kind of infinite ♾️ where the two strands don't touch.

mute is plus shaped +

kala was pretty hard to put into a cube a a. the holes on its side evoke gills; also other animals (akesi, pipi, jan...) share the same hole through the glyph

unpa: both the hole in the middle and the vertical aspect could remind of intimate parts

the stacked lines of mani evoke bills (the glyph was originally designed to be on its side) and the hollowness behind them evokes the lack of inherent value (money is empty of value unless you assign one to it)

moli is composed of two M containing, again, emptiness.

admittedly ken is pretty obscure. it resembles 'wile' so there's a theme, but both concepts (like others) are so abstract it is kinda hard to express visually

[upbeat summit]

Got around to adding all that

Forgive me if i've said this before but it'd be cool to eventually have STL files for the table

[odd heath]

agree. i can send them later today i think

[odd heath]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1MZnFvmeWfZNgTUEBxqMYSoHUOJQ_So7u?usp=sharing

@upbeat summit the 50 first leko.stl
the rest is coming! though i wouldn't know when exactly i'll be finished with it; some time soon

[upbeat summit]

It might be good to have these on Wikimedia Commons

[chrome bear]

Should this be expanded to include religions and stuff?
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Place_and_language_names

[upbeat summit]

Are enough of those standardizedish

[chrome bear]

isilan (Islam) seems to be

Not sure about the others

Also maybe we could add things that have Musi Headnouns (musi Manka, musi Tetalun, etc)

[upbeat summit]

or we could put up the tokiponization rules 👁️

[split grail]

we really need those somewhere

[[Tokiponization]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Tokiponization

[split grail]

learn how to upload there!! it is not scary

[timber apex]

* dreads about which copyright I should choose when I upload mine so they don't get deleted*

[willow jacinth]

me when I just do cc-0 for everything

[split grail]

🤝 yess

[grand marten]

nasin li lon ilo ma la ona li pona tawa ma · weka li ken tan ni → jan ante li toki e "jan pali li pana lon nasin" · taso ni li lon ala lipu pi jan pali la kulupu li ken ala sona wawa

[grand marten]

· a taso nasin ni kin li pana e ken ale ala · nasin lawa mute pi pali jan li lon ·
· nasin wan la jan li pali e lipu anu kalama anu ijo ante la ona li lawa e ona lon tenpo ale ona · nasin [CC0] li weka e lawa ni · pona ·
nasin wan la jan li pali e nasin pali sin la ona li ken pana e ona tawa lawa ma li ken lawa e ona lon tenpo suli · nasin [CC0] li weka ala e lawa ni ·
· ni la jan ike li ken ni → ona li pali e ilo li weka e lawa lipu ona · taso ilo li kepeken nasin pi lawa ona · ni la kulupu suli li kama kepeken ilo la jan ike li ken utala e ona li ken jo e mani ona · ni la jan mute li wile ala kepeken ilo pi nasin ni ·
ale la Law Is A Fuck

[timber apex]

mi pana e sitelen lon lipu user page la Ike li ken ala kama anu seme

[grand marten]

lipu sina pi ma [sona pona] anu seme

[timber apex]

ni

[grand marten]

a ona la sina ken ale*
* sina pana e ijo suli pi jan ante la kulupu [Miraheze] li ken anpa e ona · taso ona li utala wawa ala lon sona mi

-a pakala sina wile pana tan ala tan ni → kulupu [Commons] li sona e ni → sina pali

[timber apex]

kulupu Commons li seme lon ni

tenpo ni la mi wile pana e sitelen mi taso e sitelen ala pi jan ante, mi la ken ike li lili anu seme

taso mi pana e sitelen pi jan ante la mi o lukin mute e ken pana

[grand marten]

sona mi la ni

mi pali e ijo li pana e ijo la ike li ala

[upbeat summit]

it is if i'm scared

[chrome bear]

The image for 'akesi en ilo jelo kasi li musi ni olin pona sin tawa utala waso' in the Pangrams page is gone

[hot trout]

Needs the archive link http://web.archive.org/https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/875761526642978897/927924938839588944/a.png

but also, reposting in Discord makes it available: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/875761526642978897/927924938839588944/a.png

[vague aspen]

i want a bf so bad

[willow jacinth]

okay

[grand marten]

lipu ni li tawa sona toki li tawa ni ala · o tawa olin.pona.la

[willow jacinth]

OLIN.PONA.LAAAAAA 😭

! meli suwi pi wile wan li lon poka sina !

wan tu la ni li poka

meli suwi pi
wile wan li
lon poka a

[split grail]

this is like a poem

[willow jacinth]

hm it’s almost like it’s a poetry format

[split grail]

best leko nimi I've heard

meli suwi pi wile wan li lon poka a
meli wile lon suwi wan poka pi li a

[willow jacinth]

it’s a subset of leko nimi that I call wan tu

mi toki e ona lon #sona-musi message

[upbeat summit]

wan tu Oto

[hot trout]

any chance you can share non-polished versions so we know what the missing blocks look like?

[odd heath]

sure!

[hot trout]

nice nice nice

[odd heath]

i'll send a drive link. i guess that's easier this way

waiting for it to upload

little preview

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1I8zBl8LEhX_4sSAkHOBoYaZaBEM2Mffh?usp=sharing

[grand marten]

🎉

[bitter sonnet]

oh woah

i thought this writing system was an older one

ona li pona tawa miiiii

mi wile mute a

[grand marten]

tenpo li lon la mi wile ilo e ona

[bitter sonnet]

i literally just saw it on the wiki

🌲 tawa sina, @lethal hound >: ( /hj

[wide hawk]

a lipu pi sona pona

epiku

[grand marten]

tenpo lon la ma pi [sona pona] li lon · https://discord.gg/mMZa97bZXB