sona.pona.la

[split grail]

sinny

[real latch]

may i suggest using a picture of a young person as like a contrast with majuna

[upbeat summit]

nah, everyone knows the Toki Pona phrase for child is "short person" /j

[hot trout]

newbornkitten.jpg

[upbeat summit]

too many kitten

ona li already [[mu]] a

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/mu

[split grail]

New Kittens collage (4334117853).jpg

[[c:File:Being a twin means you always have a pillow or blanket handy.jpg]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/c:File:Being_a_twin_means_you_always_have_a_pillow_or_blanket_handy.jpg

[upbeat summit]

horrific

what are these terrifying beasts

[split grail]

I think they are called

bab beis?

[golden rock]

youre not a terrifying beast tho

[split grail]

@vague aspen how does one make the little colour boxes not take up all that space

[vague aspen]

edit the template and change the size to 125% or 110% or whatever you want to set it to

because yeah, they are indeed kinda big

[split grail]

aa

[vague aspen]

or put <span style=“font-size=50%> around the template so it cancels out

[vague aspen]

what article are you referring to btw

[split grail]

shrunked

[vague aspen]

oh god

fixed

idk why they became normal text color

[vague aspen]

mi pali e tokumentasijon tawa {{color box}}

[upbeat summit]

• The templates above could have been {{cite pu|LANGUAGE|p=PAGE}} but it is too late now

well

if we moved the current template to {{cite pu en}} and replaced the redirect with a switch tag with that as the default case——

but yeah

[vague aspen]

dkektkrkld

reminds me when i drew a pfp for someone and said “mi pali e sitelen tawa sina”

where i meant “sitelen tawa-sina” and they thought “sitelen-tawa sina”

[grand marten]

https://firaro.neocities.org/Toki_Wawa/tomo

[split grail]

@upbeat summit are you sure that the shortcut template is a good idea here

[upbeat summit]

nope

[split grail]

sjghkdflskf

[upbeat summit]

if you think one of them is silly remove it

[split grail]

all of them are silly

except for the project pages, that I still get

like Wikimedia uses them because they have to reference policies

often

[split grail]

ahh, there are some remaining

but I am soo eepy

[upbeat summit]

please upload oink

... kolo

[rain ice]

#5189 📣 A nimisin that means "pig" taken from: Swahili:guruwe Zulu:ingulube, Kongo:ngulu Spanish:guarro,gorrino, Japanese:(gorogoro) English:grunt

sitelen pona https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/716768435081576448/893591295652683876/unknown.png

[upbeat summit]

this isso important

[steep cave]

if snoweli and sowoli are noted for breaking phonotactics, I think sutopatikuno should be as well
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Nonstandard_animal_words#sutopatikuna

I'll edit it

[upbeat summit]

yeah

[split grail]

sona pona - fun fact

[hot trout]

aaa
taso
ni la
jan li ken tawa ona
li ken pakala e ona
ike

[mighty seal]

can we remove the "experimental and hypothetical" box from [[nasin_nanpa_pona]] since it's become more mainstream with the annual writing contest and also printed in an official book

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/nasin_nanpa_pona

[grand marten]

kolo telo li ta

[split grail]

o

pona

does su use nnp in any other places btw

outside of the credits, I mean

[mighty seal]

only the year

[split grail]

dang

[grand marten]

:(

[golden rock]

@split grail @upbeat summit would either of you be interested in putting together a spreadsheet that says which words were present in a given dictionary at a given time

this could then be upstreamed to Linku and / or used to improve historical articles

[upbeat summit]

i could try to help Somewhat

[upbeat summit]

How is https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Toki_Pona_Luka_-_luka_tawa_(alt).png still not moved

[split grail]

fucking hell

[split grail]

[[history of the dictionary]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/history_of_the_dictionary

[grim mural]

Is there a way to add a note to these to help the translators?

I wasn't sure what these were or how they worked when I was translating, until I found where they're used on the main page.

It looks like other translators are having a similar problem.

contributors for Spanish and Ido translated everything except the Lojban wiki and pu words ones.

The remark could be something like

Appears in parentheses after the number of articles, using a percentage to compare our total amount of articles to that of the Lojban wiki, like this: "123 articles (23.4% of the Lojban wiki)"

Or just

Appears like this: "123 articles (23.4% of the Lojban wiki)"

[grand marten]

sona mi la ken ala · ni taso li ken → https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:Translate/Translation_aids · taso ni li nasa li wile e wawa ilo · (kulupu [Miraheze] taso li wawa ni)

[upbeat summit]

I'm just not confident how to do those constructions in Spanish lol

iirc the editor tells you to add the variable $nanpa so hopefully it's not that confusing

[grand marten]

ken la o ante e nimi tawa $article_count · taso ni li ken pakala e ante toki pi tenpo pini

[upbeat summit]

unrelatedly can i convince people to continue on [[Project:Requests#Word article requests]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Project:Requests#Word_article_requests

[upbeat summit]

we have less than 10 left ||in hexadecimal||

[noble gulch]

Yeah but some of those are really hard.

The we for friend one is I think merely local?

I'm tempted to ping everyone who has a we headnoun to ask them.

[upbeat summit]

Technically you could just use [[Project:Word articles#Template]] and fill it in with whatever is on Linku, and then slap on {{Needs work}} if stuff is missing

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Project:Word_articles#Template

[upbeat summit]

i just haven't had the motivation

[grand marten]

nasin seme li lawa e ni → nimi li lawa e lipu anu li lon lipu kulupu · linku anu seme

[grand marten]

lili a

sitelen pona wan taso li lon

[[sipi]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/sipi

[grand marten]

a taso sitelen li ken toki e mi kin anu seme · ken la ona o ni → ijo li lukin e sinpin jasima li luka e ona

[split grail]

sjkldjfs

why is

why everything about that

[grand marten]

nimi jan li Infrogmation la

[split grail]

jhghjhkgfjhkj

bc it is Latin I think

I thought of using statues or something like that

old,.

[grand marten]

sina ken alasa e sitelen la o

[split grail]

o

but I won't

bcea

both of us should be in bed

and eepy

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-eepy-gif-10295980600460052163

[grand marten]

lon,

mi toki e sina ken [...] la tan ni → mi alasa la mi kama lukin e kulupu lili ni taso

[split grail]

this is getting a bit silly maybe

these people should be in credits for pu

but not get their own pages

imo

ALSO OKAY ENOUGH I WILL SLEEP

[upbeat summit]

Found the page image for [[kasi]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/kasi

[upbeat summit]

https://youtu.be/8NArIVIQ4BI?t=28

[steep cave]

#learn-toki-pona-1 message

[split grail]

I uploaded the new font files, furiously purging cache and it doesn't do anything

[split grail]

does it show up correctly for anyone

[[su]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/su

[split grail]

frens are loving the kitty kitty kitty

they don't speak toki pona well so I teach them

pls IGNORE their names, they are JOKES

do people use pilin for feel as in like

mi pilin e sina
I touch you, I feel you

I friend told me this, so I shoudl maybe note if that's not a thing

[mighty seal]

for touch, i think both luka e and pilin e are used

[winter sparrow]

yes, it happens, though I think luka e is more common

[split grail]

ababababa

ok that makes sense

mi heart e sina

[winter sparrow]

you can see it used in the ilo nanpa video

[split grail]

mi thoughts e sina

[golden rock]

i remember using luka e where touch happens using a tool instead of a body part and someone pointed it out as weird

[mighty seal]

ilo e

[split grail]

IT WAS ME

I DIDN'T POINT IT OUT AS WEIRD, I WAS JUST CURIOUS

[golden rock]

oh

pokes you with a uhhhh castanets

[split grail]

oh no
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castanets

he is so smart

praise her

[grand marten]

seme a

toki luka wan taso li lon

mi ken ala pana e sitelen lon ala toki

ilo ike :(

(lon la ilo pona · taso mi wile ala e pona ona)

[split grail]

I knowww

I tried telling this to the Miraheze people

but they didn't respond

can you try that pls

[dark tree]

mi alasa e sitelen wan WikiHow la mi kama lon sitelen ante

[grand marten]

!

ken a!

ken [BY-NC] li lon anu seme

[noble gulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruAi4VBoBSM

[split grail]

JGSLKDJFSD

you all are too silly for your own good

[split grail]

catgirls broke the wiki :(
[source](#toki-pona-taso message)

[noble gulch]

kio la fek'

[grand marten]

sem ea

[split grail]

@noble gulch @grand marten mu
sina sitelen pona e nimi sina la sina kepeken sitelen seme

[grand marten]

a seme

aaa mi kepeken nasin [Nishiki-teki] la

[split grail]

fslfsd

[noble gulch]

mi kepeken ona ante lon tenpo ale.

[grand marten]

o awen

[split grail]

ike la ni li ken ala

[noble gulch]

mi wile musi la mi ni:

[grand marten]

-a sina wile e nimi pi mi taso ala anu seme

[split grail]

o nasin UCSUR ala

[split grail]

jsdflksjdf

[noble gulch]

pakala

seme

mi [peto: n]

[split grail]

lonn

[grand marten]

mi [kili· taso·]

[noble gulch]

taso ni li musi taso.

[split grail]

← doesn't know how to read

oops !

[noble gulch]

ante la mi ni: jan [PETON].

[split grail]

can you give me one example that you would like

[noble gulch]

ni

[split grail]

in UCSUR

[noble gulch]

is peto not in USCUR?

That's brutal: it was practically my custom name glyph.

[split grail]

no

jfsdklf

[noble gulch]

Dang. Gotta start using it to get it included.

[split grail]

jhgjklh

with the Unicode proposal, Lepeka is planning to update UCSUR anyway so like

:>

[grand marten]

sina wile sona tan seme

[noble gulch]

Then idk. I tend to avoid using particles in name cartouches, but the only reasonably common content word that starts with e is esun, which I hate as part of my name.

[split grail]

tan lipu kule

[grand marten]

a

[noble gulch]

Honestly I don't like the cartouche system with the initial sounds and essentially never use it.

And when I do it's different every time.

[split grail]

lipu kule li wile sitelen pona e lipu

[noble gulch]

Sorry I'm being a pain.

a ona li pona.

lon suli la mi wile e ni:

[noble gulch]

pa ka la

[split grail]

sdkfldsjf

[noble gulch]

ilo li wile utala e mi.

nn

mi alasa

peto li ken ala anu seme.

pakala esun tawa open nasin

ni li ken

a

[split grail]

mi sona ala e nimi pona tawa jan la mi o sitelen Lasina e ona

[noble gulch]

n ken la o ni.

taso ni li ike tawa kulupu pi lipu kule la o kepeken nasin sitelen pi wile sina.

[split grail]

pana e telo oko n

[noble gulch]

a a a

wile ala a!

[split grail]

nnn lon la

sitelen nasin ssk

ona li jo e nimi ni

[noble gulch]

nasin ssk li seme?

[split grail]

ona li ni:

pana ZWJ e ZWJ telo ZWJ oko

sitelen seli kiwen

[noble gulch]

lon la mi kepeken ala sitelen pona lon ilo li kepeken ona lon lipuu taso.

[noble gulch]

mi awen sona ala, taso ni li tan ni: mi sona ala toki pona.

[noble gulch]

a

[noble gulch]

wawa

[noble gulch]

lon la nasin ni li pona tawa mi

[split grail]

mu

nasin sitelen li sona ala e nasin ni la ona li toki e [pana e telo oko n]

taso

nasin ni li sona pona

[noble gulch]

pana e telo oko n

ni li jan Peton

jan pi pilin ike a a a

[split grail]

gdsjkflsd

ike a

[noble gulch]

taso ni li mi anu seme.

a a a aa a

musi pi lon

[split grail]

musi pi lon

[noble gulch]

I s2g if USCUR doesn't have kikolo I'd scream.

[grand marten]

tenpo lon la nasin [UCSUR] la taso la nimi pu en nimi ku suli en nimi pake apeja majuna powe li lon · la o mu

[noble gulch]

a

taso mi kepeken ala nasin UCSUR li kepeken ala nimi peto la ni li nasa Peton taso.

[grand marten]

poki ni la ni [Kanse] en ni [Posuki] en ni [Lusi] (en mute ante anu seme) li tan lipu pi jan [Pije] la ona o lon poki majuna anu seme

[winter sparrow]

what page is that?

[split grail]

[[learning resources]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/learning_resources

[winter sparrow]

muuuueh

I made that page to be a curated list of vetted and up to date stuff so that the info wasn't locked on kama sona

oh wait what

ok I see what happened

the curated list was previously at that url

and then someone moved the curated list away to another page

and put the uncurated list here

so now all the old links that say curated list point to here

fuck

well at least the warning up at the top is somewhat clear

[grand marten]

o utala e njan [Njuwan]

mi pona lili ni e ni → nimi nanpa tu li suli lon open sama linja pi ma [kama sona] la ilo li tawa lipu pona

wile mi la · lipu [Learning resources] li pona taso · lipu ante la ale li lon

[winter sparrow]

ni a

[split grail]

<3

[dark tree]

nimi suwi

pi njan suwi

[split grail]

uwuw lonn

[noble gulch]

Are the "official" colors listed on the wiki anywhere?

The logo has #000099 and #ffff63

[split grail]

I

I don't know exactly

oh for what do you mean

oh for the toki pona logo

[[toki pona logo]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/toki_pona_logo

[split grail]

for any article that require like, visuals, like the [[cheat sheets]] I'm trying to upload them all to either Commons or failing that (for licence issues) to sona pona, so that it's easier for people to see it

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/cheat_sheets

[split grail]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Toki_Pona_cheat_sheets

I was pretty sure I uploaded lipamanka's but appanrently not??

oh no I did, it was just in the wrong category

there

[noble gulch]

This is what I mean. I was looking for that little table with the colors and I couldn't find it 😂

It's on the logo page.

[upbeat summit]

Is it me or have the image thumbnails lost their padding

I don't hate it but now the figcaptions are kinda butting up against their images

Never mind, seems to be a weird caching thing

but also now the Purge button is gone from the Tools menu

[upbeat summit]

tbh

could i suggest

a server for the wiki

It feels kind of hard to keep track of stuff when this thread only has room for one conversation

and there's been at least one contributor who isn't on this server

anymore

[noble gulch]

I hate that you're right.

I've been trimming servers like wild.

[upbeat summit]

plus, then we would have to come up with an icon

[noble gulch]

Can we take a part of the linku server?

I feel as if we're sister projects.

[golden rock]

we could

@safe stag what do you think

your other option is using the server ma pali pi toki pona

i have no idea if its even alive

[upbeat summit]

We could also potentially do things with bots that we can't do here

like having a mirror of recent changes?

[noble gulch]

ma pali pi toki pona seems to have activity. I think the main point that would change is that we'd have multiple channels/threads/whatever, so whatever makes the most sense.

[upbeat summit]

or having a maintenance channel that links a random page in the category every so often

[grand marten]

pa mali pi poni toka la toki [pona] taso li ken · ni li ike tawa lipu ni pi toki [Inli] anu seme

[grand marten]

niii li ken

[noble gulch]

a ni li sona sin tawa mi. ni la mi o lon ala pa mona pi poki tona.

[grand marten]

mi toki e ma [pali] e ma [pona] ala

taso lon la toki li lon ma [pona] taso la ike

[noble gulch]

a mi toki pakala. sina toki lon ona ni anu seme: 893915100610699364

ni li nanpa

n

ma pali pi toki pona li tpt

ni li pona ala tawa sona pona Inli.

[grand marten]

nanpa :anpa:
taso ni

[safe stag]

i have a few concerns with this ranging from community centralizing to notability standards to it not literally being a linku project in the first place, which ill detail in a bit

but first, a thought:
at some point maybe a month ago i made a discussion page to propose the deletion of a non-notable page
the response from uhhh i forget who? was "hmm good point, can you bring it to the discord server?"
and it felt Really weird- like is the wiki not sufficient for communicating about the wiki? Aha
that's a sincere question directed at @noble gulch @grand marten and other organizers: why not use the wiki for organizing the work being done on the wiki? it has tools for that

[golden rock]

why not use the wiki for organizing the work being done on the wiki? it has tools for that
you could argue the same about Linku, we could be using Github Issues for everything, yet we don't
i think you've previously described it as synchronous vs asynchronous? i don't quite remember, but i feel like its the same for the wiki

i think at this small scale of the wiki editor community it naturally lends itself to collaborating in chats rather than talk pages

[safe stag]

it's the chat medium that makes a difference, ye
although honestly i would not be opposed to making issues for Linku

so, i have a few concerns in no particular order

• this project has several problems with notability; it doesn't have a stated standard for what should or should not be included, and doesn't have enough editors to resolve proposed notability problems quickly. the second of these isn't solvable in the short term but the first is
• centralizing the work being done to document toki pona into one server (or hell, even having it just on discord) will lead to centralizing the history being told about toki pona on this community. it should be possible for somebody outside this community or the proposed joined community to not only contribute but contribute as effectively as anyone else; strictly speaking that is barely possible right now, unless that person does join this community. working on the wiki makes better, but that doesn't seem to be desired

i think all these concerns are pretty easily resolved; by volume the notability problems are very small, and the centralizing problem could prob be helped by a webhook gluing awareness of the wiki to the discord server.

(hilariously, if we take on the wiki as a project, that's like 80% of the sandbox problem solved on its own)

this was two rather than a few concerns, plus some commentary

actually wait i may have missed a framing question
do the wikiers want to have a space in another server, or be part of the linku project
if the former i would recommend ma pali even despite the tpt of the server, or making your own server (i can help with that if you like)
if the latter i would want some notability standards to be added to wiki work (i.e. a doc explain what should/shouldn't go based on its relevance) but i am tentatively cool with that

[grand marten]

a ni li nasa
taso n · tenpo poka la mi toki tawa jan [Peton] lon lipu · ona li toki sin tawa mi · taso ilo li mu ala e mi lon ni la mi o lukin e lipu o kama sona · ken la ilo ni li lon → ona li mu · mi o alasa

[grand marten]

ike wawa la mi [Linku] la mi ken ala lipu [Linku] li ken ala sona [Linku] la mi o seme

ijo pi suli seme o ken lon lipu la · mi la ale o ken · taso ijo lili o lon lipu wan pi ijo mute anu lipu pi jan wan anu lipu pi anpa / anu lipu pi lili ante

nimi en nasin la ni · jan la miii sona ala

[safe stag]

lipu Wikipedia li kepeken nasin seme? ken la sina ken lukin e ni li ken lili e wawa wile

[grand marten]

a

[grand marten]

nasin pi suli ijo anu seme

[safe stag]

miiiii sona ala, a a a

[safe stag]

ni

[grand marten]

nasin ni ona la jan [Sonja] li suli ala

nimi ale pi *u ala li suli ala

sina suli ala

[safe stag]

sona

ni la o lili e wawa pi wile ona

o kepeken wawa lili ni

[grand marten]

lukin la lili la nasin li ni → jan pona o toki suli e ijo tan ala mama ijo

aa mi sona ala lawa

nasin ken 🤔

[golden rock]

that's like 80% of the sandbox problem solved on its own
disagree; the Linku dictionary unlike the wiki is structured data. If that wasn't important to us we could just continue using quotes

[safe stag]

ni li ken wawa

[safe stag]

ilo Mirahaze li ken nasin e sona sama ilo ante anu seme
pilin mi la ona li ken
taso mi sona ala

[golden rock]

i mean storing all words and "words" in the same format with tools supporting it

[safe stag]

taso, ilo Mirahaze li poki pona e sona la ilo Linku li ken kepeken sona ni li ken nasin ante e ona lon wile

[winter sparrow]

ma pali pi toki pona li lon

[golden rock]

@winter sparrow see this

[winter sparrow]

I mean

technically but also I feel like it's very reasonable to say "we'd like to have a channel category for sona.pona and in that category english is allowed"

I'll ask the other mods

if people here want

[hot trout]

pona tawa mi
poki toki wan ante la toki Inli li ken lon ma pali

[golden rock]

is ma pali pi toki pona compatible with this requirement btw

[split grail]

there we go

it was WOFF2 that I needed

[winter sparrow]

no

jan Tepo li wile ala e ni 🤷

oh sorry bad reply

"no" to the "english section"

[split grail]

,,i should probably add opinions to the discussion of moving the server but aabababababa

[upbeat summit]

it's lipamanka i'm thinking of, i don't know the details of their ban

[split grail]

moving to a new server has the benefit of decentralisation, where we have more space and also members who are not in ma pona can contribute

moving to a new server also has the issue of decentralisation, where there is less traffic going into it because it's not as well known, and so I worry that some people won't talk as much :(
specifically those who aren't already editors in some way

[grand marten]

o pana e poki lukin pi tomo [IRC] lon lipu open 🤔

sama lipu mute pi toki [.lojban.]

[split grail]

and this is one of the biggest issues with sona pona rn I think
it seems we are trying to do it all, while that is really not needed

[split grail]

what the FUCK is an,,. irk??

ick

[split grail]

it's great that we have info on less documented words :)
but where to stop

it's great that we have info on some people :)
but who to include

is being an illustrator on pu enough for a whole article

[golden rock]

you should set milestones

like youve unofficially done with word articles

[split grail]

no clue how

[golden rock]

i mean still unofficially

by talking

about it

[split grail]

ababab

true

[grand marten]

nimi o lipu ala li lipu la ike li seme

• pali pi awen pona li kama suli tan mute lipu
• lipu li suli e nimi · jan sin li kama kepeken ona
• seme ante

[split grail]

lon a

[upbeat summit]

what is "it all" and why is that unneeded

[split grail]

it seems like sona pona tries to include all words and all people and all info

or then, many of these that are very low notability

[upbeat summit]

I don't plan or want to include all words

[grand marten]

nasin ken ante 🤔

[split grail]

mumumu

[upbeat summit]

Anything not in the official books goes in the fanon wiki

[split grail]

where to draw the line

[noble gulch]

Umm a few scattered thoughts:

• I have been yelled at in the past for making new discord servers for projects that didn't need them, so all other things being equal I'd rather not make a new server to avoid repeating that experience.
• If we're going to talk about communication features built into the wiki people don't use, I'd say that the actual commit messages would be a great place to start: many editors never put messages there at all and it's a waste of reviewers' time.
• I am extremely reticent to delete other people's pages, even when they're unnotable. I've gotten in flame wars over the inclusion of things on the wiki before that were so acrid they caused me to withdraw temporarily from the project and the tp community as a whole.
• [[anusememajong]] or whatever it is should obviously be deleted and it's absurd to add it in the first place.
• linku included the misspellings of the words from ku as distinct lexemes: that seems to be the standard we have also been using on this wiki.
• my editing behavior has tended to stick to parts of the wiki that are definitely relevant (main particle articles, and words of interest), but I've been known to get deep into the weeds on articles that are probably necessary but impossible to complete (see [[kepeken e]]).
• The objective standards of Toki Pona history have been the subject of debate before. The above-mentioned flame wars were about how to include historical but no longer accurate information on the wiki: some might argue that the wiki's job is to document current usage, the past be damned.
• The history of all of humanity is being crushed by rising tides of entropy in the face of which we and our memory will be lost: I would like to save all the scraps I can of my own childhood.
• There is nobody alive who is actually qualified to write the history of Toki Pona: heretofore almost all information floating around the Toki Pona-verse has been first-hand testimony by folks who were there, and then confused hearsay from people who weren't. Part of the purpose of sona.pona.la for me is to introduce some measure of scientificity to the proceedings; but the historical investigations are currently incomplete, which incompleteness is reflected in the wiki's poor coverage of anything from the period of, say, 2006-2013.

I don't really have a cogent argument. My point about the linku server was not about merging the projects: I just don't want to start a new discord server if I can possibly help it. I wish people would actually engage in Talk discussions at a rate faster than months, but that seems to be a pipedream.

[upbeat summit]

i'm not really planning to add anything more that isn't on the requests page

[split grail]

brb adding nimi ale to it

[safe stag]

In this case I think you would be justified in making a server
The project is presumably going to remain and continue to be worked on for as long as people are interested in it, without any specific end goal in mind that would mean the end of the project
Oh holy shit this got way bigger hang on now I have to respond to more points

[noble gulch]

Soz I accidentally hit enter instead of shift-enter.

[split grail]

casually drops a bible on us

[noble gulch]

I'm a fast typer.

[split grail]

do people use 'write a bible' as an expression for a very very long text in English

[golden rock]

russians tend to call longposts "blankets"

[safe stag]

1. See above
2. Very reasonable [is likely at fault]
3. I think higher standards for notability in the first place would help this, but it does suck and is a permanent problem of any wiki at any size bigger than one person's effort
4. Agreed [is the person who brought it up]
5. This is the most important point here: Linku should not be considered the end-all be-all for notability outside of its top 5 categories. Many additions to Linku were made solely because they existed in prior dictionaries, not because they would meet Linku's standards for inclusion now; its initial purpose was to replace all prior existing dictionaries, because there were tons with different standards, content, discoverability, etc. In an ideal world, toma and suke would never have needed to be included; they were grandfathered in by necessity. For your wiki, that is a first of its kind project, I would recommend steering toward greater notability than literal typoes. Exercise discretion and come up with your own independent notability standards. But it's okay to reference Linku's pre-existing standards in that.
6. Another permenant problem of wikis :(
7. I feel like you could include historical information on distinct pages or via the tabs feature that Kita saw before, without harming the goals of the wiki to document current usage. The wiki seemed to have started as a learning resource and grown into a history resource as well, and I generally see that as a good thing. We should write what history we can.
   8/9. man these last two points hit hard. [has been reading tons of already 12-15 year old youtube comments about maplestory nostalgia]. We will simply have to do our best.

not actually 10 but 10. My complaint with "borrow the linku server" is that it implies sona.pona.la is a Linku project, which it is not by this proposal. We've turned down other projects and requests because they aren't Linku projects/requests i.e. they're out of scope, such as taking on ilo pi toki pona taso.

We should write what history we can.
a point on notability: history grows far faster than you can write it. and is gone faster than you can save it. i experienced this frustration directly with the yaref situation that saw two servers be deleted before i could archive them.
notability standards are, in a sense, a compromise between the constant pour of work being done and the reality that those documenting it simply cannot see and then write everything.

the internet makes both the speed of creation and destruction of information far, far faster than anyone can keep up with

[noble gulch]

olin tawa sina tan toki pona sina.

In terms of page deletion, I don't actually have the power to do that, so it's out of my hands: only sysops can delete pages, and they haven't been engaging in that talk page.

We should make an earnest effort to use the wiki's built-in discussion features.

We should make an explicit standard for notability. My commitment to finding examples in vivo has served that purpose for me, but that hasn't been adopted as a whole. (i.e. if there's no example to be found it's not notable enough for inclusion).

[safe stag]

kala Asi, and me of the past, are right tho: instant messaging is a better medium for certain kinds of discussions, especially those at relatively small scales like this project

[safe stag]

but i agree nonetheless

[golden rock]

linku included the misspellings of the words from ku as distinct lexemes: that seems to be the standard we have also been using on this wiki.
this was a decision solely made by me, for a purpose (having precise counts of pu / ku suli / ku lili words) that has become less relevant over time. im 100% open to removing toma and suke and relegating them to a footnote on sona.pona.la

[noble gulch]

I'm perfectly happy not mentioning them on sona.pona.la at all.

[noble gulch]

I think the single thread is fine for what we need it for for messaging.

Exercise discretion and come up with your own independent notability standards.
Indeed.

[split grail]

we don't really

they only exist in one page

[[typos]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/typos

[grand marten]

mi la nimi [📧🀄] o lon ala lipu pi ona taso o lon lipu [nimi musi pi ma pona]

ni li pona seme tawa sinjale

[split grail]

ni li pona

little title change

nimi musi pi ma pona TASO

bc yknow that some of them spilled out into other communities

[safe stag]

nnn ala
tan ni: ona li lili taso lon open lon tenpo lon pini
seme la ona li wile lon?
musi nimi li suli seme tawa musi ante? sina wile pana e ni la o pana e ale pi tomo #pona-kulupu tawa lipu anu seme

[grand marten]

utala lili la · sitelen :EmailMahjong: li lon ma lon tenpo

n taso sitelen ante la

[split grail]

aaa

[grand marten]

sitelen o lipu ala lipu

[split grail]

lipu pi jan Sosinke

[grand marten]

o lipu la o sonpon ala sonpon

[split grail]

sonpon li seme

[grand marten]

sona.pona.la

[split grail]

son||a|| pon||a||

a

[golden rock]

heres my suggestion for word article notability:
if all the information we have about the word can be stored in linku's format, a wiki page does not add anything

[grand marten]

Linku Redirect anu seme

[safe stag]

palisa Natan li lon ma lon tenpo suli li lon kulupu pi musi ni li awen pana e ona
mi awen toki lon lipu Awen Tomo lon tenpo sike ni; ni li ante ala e suli kulupu pi lipu ni

[golden rock]

if you create a page about kikolo and actually have so,ething to say about it other than who coined it and when and whast the proposed sp looks like, hen you should have a page on kikolo, yknow?

[safe stag]

the point is that the word doesn't have anything to write about Except for that we could fill all of Linku's basic data fields

[grand marten]

taso lipu Kenalawekatantomo li suli,,

[deep hollow]

aa nasa la musi ni li awen lon tenpo

[split grail]

ig

this is why I started making pages for words

to detail what Linku couldn't

[upbeat summit]

but we have nimi [[ale]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/ale

[upbeat summit]

That could work 👀

[split grail]

indeed

[upbeat summit]

Yeah but

• if we act on that, then there's information in the dictionaries that isn't on the wiki, and i don't see why that should be the case
• if the word isn't notable then it should be removed from Linku, if i understand correctly. but then all the information is gone (or at least shunted off to the sandbox)
• giving the word a wiki article or section gives others the opportunity to contribute and add additional information and at least cite a lot more sources than would fit into a dictionary entry. if things are too short we can put maintenance templates on it that are more than a call to action than a dictionary saying "unknown", which feels like conclusive
• we might have nimi pu that meet that standard

[upbeat summit]

ehh there are quite a few things i keep bringing up (or meaning to) that never get resolved, which a forum channel could be useful for tracking without getting buried by conversations competing for the space

One example is https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiSEO

and i know there are other things i'm not remembering right now

[split grail]

oh this is kinda true,.

except the last one

that is a skill issue

[upbeat summit]

like i'm replying to a bunch of different conversations right now. if this weren't already in a thread Discord would be suggesting we make some. if someone doesn't reply to one of these, that discussion ends unresolved

[split grail]

recursive threads when

calling Discord HQ

[grand marten]

nanpa po la mi lipu wan e kule ale lon open tan ni

nan pasan la · mi la jan li tawa s.p.l/wiki/[nimi Linku] la ona o tawa ijo · ijo li ken lipu pi nimi ni taso li ken lipu pi nimi mute li ken lipu [Linku] · taso ona o lon

[grand marten]

sina wile e ilo la o pana · sina li jo e wawa

mi la mi sona ala e tan pi wile sina

[upbeat summit]

mi jo e wawa kolo po taso

…this is the wrong thing

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Special:ManageWiki/settings#mw-section-seo

this this this

mi ken ala ante e ni tan kule ala kapesi nena

[split grail]

need help with [[Transitivity]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Transitivity

[split grail]

how the fuck do I express anything

@noble gulch you're a grammar guy, so maybe check if you'd like?

sillilly long

pls just make new sentences I beg you

what do you meeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnn

'larger admission of ignorance' 😭 😭 😭 😭

[noble gulch]

It's because people like to say "it's controversial whether you can use anu to form questions or only disjunctive statements". We've had a continuous edit war on that page for months now. I think it's preposterous to have to do all of these gymnastics to describe something that's fundamentally quite simple, but apparently that's what we've come to. It turns out that anu on its own (not "anu seme") is very rare in the actual corpus, and generating my own example is begging the question: it assumes that I'll be able to generate acceptable sentences off the top of my head using anu, which at this point is not obvious to me at all.

[noble gulch]

So for example, this is actually one of the clearest sentences I've been able to find in wiki source (lipu tenpo, lipu kule, kalama sin) or utala pona that's an example of someone using "anu" to introduce new prepositional objects.

And I'm not going to make up a sentence, because that assumes something I'm not comfortable assuming, namely that my usage is close enough to the norm that sentences I generate can be used as documentation of the community's style.

[split grail]

aaaa

I get your point

it's just a shame

@ kekan san are u ready to make a whole video on anu and making shorter sentences

[safe stag]

no

[split grail]

/musi

[safe stag]

peton's approach is perfect here
it's anu's fault that nobody uses it
i will not encourage further use of anu bc i like when anu sits in its box and is largely not useful

that said, i literally have a lesson video on anu, and a written lesson on anu (both including other subjects), if you really need more corpeeves

[split grail]

oh

yappie

(I'm also sorry if I don't get my sentiment across, Peton you are doing great work btw <3 sina pona mute a)

[safe stag]

that said, i feel like it is explicitly bias toward the subject and/or practice that motivates the thinking here and this is a very prominent fault of sona.pona.la
there are not enough editors for all editors to be unbiased in their actions, because those who could write on a subject are also closely related to that subject
that's not a solvable fault cause... there are not enough editors
the next best thing is for editors to treat their chosen topics distantly, which is why peton's approach is perfect for the situation
you're @split grail undermining that approach by asking me to take some specific action to fill out the wiki
i get it was a joke but it is a discomforting one for, as far as I'm aware, the most active editor of the wiki to be making

[split grail]

yes, I understand, I am so sorry

I did not mean at all for this

[safe stag]

it's all good, i just felt it was important you were aware of this, and i tend to write a lot lmao

[split grail]

never change

keep pointing out how I am/have fucked up, and I will cry
but grow

[safe stag]

LMAO ok noted

[urge to reference Futurama rising]

[split grail]

gjsdflsdf

[upbeat summit]

we should have an article on that

List of Toki Pona references in Futurama

[safe stag]

ok this would be funny

[upbeat summit]

I'm featuring it as we speak

on all wikis

Wikipedia

TV Tropes

Battle for Dream Island Fanon Wiki

[grand marten]

mi ken alasa e toki lili · ni li lon lawa mi la mi pana

ante la
"Usage of anu is attested for subjects[1], predicates[2] [...]"

[grand marten]

mi kepeken a ona >:|

o lukin e kepeken mi · sewi o · o anpa

taso ni li lon ala lipu la ale ala li ken lukin

kin toki mi pi ma ni li nasa muuu tea

[split grail]

(wile sina) Kita [kili . taso .] li toki nasa taso

[grand marten]

toki penpo taso

penpo li toki penpo taso · sama toki [PHP]

[split grail]

penpo h penpo

sadly there is no H in toki pona, so you can't write HAI or PHP

[grand marten]

pini
li
lon

ona
pini
ona

[grim mural]

I can't get the nasin nanpa font or the linja pona font to work with {{sp}}. Are those not downloaded on the wiki's servers or something like that? Or is it another problem?

[split grail]

they are not in the servers

you'd have to upload it

[noble gulch]

Indeed. This is why [[kepeken e]] is so difficult to write: anyone who would write it would be someone who was involved in the dispute (e.g. me, who has the opinion that kepeken can be a perfectly valid transitive verb). I'm trying my best to keep my biases in check here, which is why I've been so strict about not generating my own examples. I think that this is something that makes sona.pona.la different from the learning resources: all the extant learning resources avowedly represent the nasin of their authors, whereas sona.pona.la is meant (to me) to be a description of community behavior. But since Toki Pona is an "underresourced language" (it feels weird to use that here, but in the strict sense of "has a corpus small enough to make description difficult," it's true), it's difficult to keep in bounds.

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/kepeken_e

[split grail]

and that is what I will have to do

one hecking second

[grim mural]

thanks

[grand marten]

ilo [Penpo] li esun e [SijeloPiPilinLukin] e [linja tawa li weka.] anu seme

[noble gulch]

Also thank you for the positive feedback everyone: on this project I feel as if the only feedback we get is negative, i.e. when we piss someone off. That's been really hard for me, frankly, and is a reason my editing bursts have been so intermittent.

[split grail]

on this project I feel as if the only feedback we get is negative
truly

this is something I learnt,
negative feedback is good, but drowning in it is not
make sure to appreciate each other's work

which is something that I don't do as much as I do

I love you all, you're all great people <3

[grand marten]

wi jan pona mute :) (en kulupu pona wan)

[split grail]

wiwi

[[toki pona (song)]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/toki_pona_(song)

[grim mural]

I can relate. It's similar to why I haven't been active on Tatoeba for years now, despite having been super active on there before.

I got into tiring discussions with another user all the time

[split grail]

🔥 🔥 🔥 typo in the first paragraph 🔥 🔥 🔥

[grim mural]

I haven't really been on sona pona for a while, but I love to see the progression you've all made! Like almost every word having an article now.

[grand marten]

ni li nasa tawa mi → ijo luka ale a pi toki [pona] li lon

[split grail]

mute kin li ken lonn

[noble gulch]

Thanks so much jan Pensa o, for jumping in and adding content when you see something is missing! Recently I appreciated your catching the lack of documentation for historical poka-as-a-preposition, and taking the time to add a well-sourced section on in.

[upbeat summit]

I've been surprised by the negativity being raised

I really feel like this project gets better every day

When i see that people have edited my contributions i usually find the changes reasonable at worst

People have good ideas for how to organize and rethink things in ways that make sense

[split grail]

'reasonable at worst'

[grim mural]

aww, thanks :)

[hot trout]

There's a lot of work put in the wiki and it shows!

thanks for fixing my half-assed contributions 😄

[split grail]

ehehfsdjlfsd

[upbeat summit]

monsi kipisi

[split grail]

[[esun]] li lipu pona ala pona

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/esun

[split grail]

example sentencens :>

[grand marten]

jan pi mute lili li pilin e ni → sitelen li tan [£] · ni o lon ala lon lipu

kin esun pi mani ala la seme

https://tenor.com/fopwMj2Pw4h.gif

jan [Seli] la ni ↑ li esun kon · #sona-musi message

[steep cave]

should this be moved to disclaimed glyphs? the glyph isn't final and subject to change

[split grail]

aa

should I jist remove the glyph

at least the sitelen pona on the side

ok nvm just all gone maybe

[steep cave]

all gone then

[grim mural]

I noticed the "citation needed" here, and was surprised that there wasn't any good source for this

nor in [[History]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/History

[grim mural]

So I scoured the Facebook group... and found the original thread!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sitelen/posts/1698758320178546/?comment_id=1699054290148949

(now updating the article with source and more accurate info)

[upbeat summit]

pana pona

[noble gulch]

Thanks so much!

[safe stag]

this is awesome for linku's purposes too! please ping me or kala asi when there's a discovery like this! although samu is going to be in the sandbox soon

[grim mural]

I did this for people who aren't in ma pona, who can't go and read the discussion I'm linking to

but it's rather bulky

is there a collapsable box of some kind that we can use?

[grand marten]

https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Collapsible_elements

[split grail]

yeees

let's gooo collapsing

[mighty seal]

pona!

i remember when some people were worried the word samu was making fun of Mr Samu, so i went back and found the original FB thread also, a year or 2 ago, and noticed that he thumbed up a message related to if he was OK with it.

[split grail]

do you all know how to add these small descriptions to a page

[real latch]

wikipedia uses a {{Short description|...}} template

[split grail]

nii

[real latch]

idk if Miraheze has the same thing

myb u can check their documentation

[upbeat summit]

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShortDescription ?

[split grail]

wawa

[upbeat summit]

The word article template should definitely set it to like

Toki Pona word

That's something i've been tossing around in my mind

how if you end up on the page without proper context for what the wiki is or what Toki Pona is

it kinda just throws you out into a sea of jargon

[grim mural]

Ooh, I didn't know there was a template for that. I only know that by default Wikipedia steals the description from the corresponding Wikidata page for that

[upbeat summit]

like ah yes apeja is a pre-pu nimi ku lili

but also, opening every word article with "In Toki Pona," seems a bit

[split grail]

mayb elike

Core Toki Pona word, etc.

[split grail]

gjsldfjsdf

the intro paragraph is certainly a lot of jargon but like-

[real latch]

Core/ku suli/ku lili/Post-ku Toki Pona word

[split grail]

it is used for those who need it

[split grail]

I mean

[real latch]

maybe even content word/preposition/particle/...

[split grail]

[[usage categories]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/usage_categories

[split grail]

yee

[real latch]

mm

t rue

[upbeat summit]

there's the infobox tbf

[split grail]

ababa

true

is it major enough, so that for example, someone reading the intro paragraph, such as like on Discord or skimming the wiki would want to know it

[grand marten]

jan o ken kama sona e kon pi nimi nasa · ken la ona li luka e ona la lipu sona li kama · ike la ilo ni li lon ala 😔

[upbeat summit]

I'm just wondering if it wouldn't be better to spell it out in full

like

It is a pre-pu word: it was coined before the publication of Toki Pona: The Language of Good (lipu pu), but was not included in it.

[winter sparrow]

imo it's important to decentralize

ma pona might be a central hub for the community but it's deeply unhealthy for all the community to be centered here

[upbeat summit]

actually shit can i add lajotu to Nonstandard animal words

[verbal coral]

Unfortunately, an error occurred during command processing. Please let a staff member know.

[upbeat summit]

ah…

[split grail]

true

[verbal coral]

lajotu (post-ku) cat
← ᓚᘏᗢ la–yo–tʼu, visual combination of Unified Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics glyphs
synonym: kisa
coined: <#toki-ale message>
sitelen pona: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/301377942062366741/912281322221871134/lajotu.png (eye dots are optional)

#1ff934 lajotu

[split grail]

OMG THAT'S SO TRUE

i love him

[noble gulch]

No. That whole page already has really bad notability problems and seems to track literally every one-off animal name anyone has ever coined, which given our conversation yesterday I am becoming more and more resistant to. It seems as if you are the only person who's ever actually used lajotu in any of the sources I've combed, and that only once; and besides, you also coined it. I'd say it's not notable for inclusion, and, if people wouldn't consider it sabotage, I'd like to start deleting unused words from that page, unless they can be substantiated with actual usage.

[split grail]

(i should probably clarify that this is me showing positivity for the word itself, not agreeing that it should be added,.)

[upbeat summit]

jan Juwan o start using it,,

[split grail]

:anpa:

[upbeat summit]

then it can spread and we can add it in

🤔

20 years?

[split grail]

what are some of the issues that we have rn for sona pona

that we have discussed

• notability issues (for words and people)
• centralisation in ma pona
• small number of editors and the consequences

[split grail]

(start of the discussion roughly)

[dark tree]

by this standard snoweli should be removed too

it's never actually been given a definition

only a glyph

maybe it's a particle meaning "when"

[noble gulch]

I'm combing through that page now.

[grand marten]

a poka la · kul(ajot)upu [Menjasewi] o · lipu pi jan [Misali] la sinja toki e ni → "tenpo Times pi mute Some la jan li wan e sitelen ijo e sitelen kapa tan ni → ona li sama sitelen sinpin pi jan [Antoni Makasi]" · taso mi alasa la sinja taso li ni tu · mi alasa ike anu sinja toki e suli kepeken pi lon ala anu seme

[split grail]

comparing (sona) Linku and sona pona, I think of it more like Wikidata vs. Wikipedia, those have different goals but they both get at the same thing, pana sona

[upbeat summit]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Toki_Pona_Luka_-_luka_tawa_(alt).png

wth

[split grail]

they are

just a bit slow

dw

[split grail]

major issue

• mi wile pona. taso mi pali lili

[noble gulch]

sina pali pona. jan pi mute ala li pali lon lipu. mi ale li pali e ijo ante lon lon la mi ken ala pali lon sona pona lon tenpo ale. ale li pona. pali sina li pona. sina pona.

[grand marten]

mi utala lili e lipu pi ijo lili

[noble gulch]

utala pona

[split grail]

aaaa

ponaaaaa

[split grail]

are there people who say like

pi tan, pi kepeken, etc. with prepositions

pi nanpa too, that I do know

[upbeat summit]

used as prepositions?

and not content words?

[split grail]

like

X pi tan Y → X from Y

yeah

[upbeat summit]

because X pi tawa Y would be like

the X related to Y's movement

[split grail]

yeah

warning against learners

nowait

for learners

[noble gulch]

Yes. Nasi by jan Kepe does it extensively

It's in [[Prepositions#Expanded_syntax]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Prepositions#Expanded_syntax

[hot trout]

a taso nasin sitelen li ken pona lon [[Writing systems]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Writing_systems

[grand marten]

pona la mi number e writing tan ni → nimi writing tu li lon poka la nasa · ike la [[nnai]] li lon · n

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/nnai

[grim mural]

When you're used to citing quotes from Discord, it's a breath of fresh air when you can just archive a Telegram message link on Archive.org, no problem

https://web.archive.org/web/20240209000851/https://t.me/sitelensitelen/483

(only possible with messages in groups that are set to "public")

[split grail]

literallyyyyyy

[muted sun]

for some reason i thought i had to join to see the telegram group

time to nicerwordforstalk them

:D

[grim mural]

Here's a list of more Toki Pona groups you can nicerwordforstalk, in case you're interested
https://t.me/tokiponaTelegram/28

not all of them are public groups, though

And it might be missing a few noteworthy groups. It's my list, and I haven't updated it in years.

(Feel free to ping me if anyone has something to add)

[split grail]

noticing something for an article
A ala A can be used not for questioning

ni li ken ala ken ni: ...
this may or may not be because ...

[winter sparrow]

?

[split grail]

mu

[rugged torrent]

this is just rhetorical questioning

[split grail]

ok sure

[grand marten]

mi sona ala e kon ni tan toki ni · taso mi kepeken nasin ni

[covert flume]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Palindromes#5_words Is the emoji supposed to be here or did someone's autocorrect malfunction

I know it's supposed to be saying "ko ala", but don't know if it's intentional

[noble gulch]

lol no it's a typo. Well caught. You can go ahead and fix it if you want.

[hot trout]

it was deliberate, but it can get fixed

[grand marten]

musi o lon ala

[noble gulch]

a mi sona ala e wile musi ni.

ona li ken awen 🐨

[upbeat summit]

Can we enable the monospaced style of ssk

[split grail]

aa

sure

mi lukin e lipu [[Collation of sitelen pona]] la ona o toki kin e ni: nasin Juniko li alasa nasin e sitelen.

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Collation_of_sitelen_pona

[split grail]

nasin ni li sama nasin Lasina

[split grail]

kin o pana e lipu sona ni tawa jan: seme la mi ante e nasin sitelen

[split grail]

https://x.com/depthsofwiki/status/1754757650946941112?s=20

depths of wikipedia (@depthsofwiki) on X

whenever people are like "why do you keep adding to wikipedia? isn't already pretty much done?" I show them the articles about local newspapers in africa

Twitter · Feb 6, 2024, 6:43 AM

https://x.com/depthsofwiki/status/1754759045569777879?s=20

depths of wikipedia (@depthsofwiki) on X

:)

Twitter · Feb 6, 2024, 6:48 AM

[split grail]

sona pona is also a woman

[golden rock]

I've been trying to use the History page and we have some problems

a lot of the pages were never archived correctly

I can't even find a 2001-adjacent dictionary

The earliest dictionary seems to have been at http://www.tokipona.org/tp-en.php, and www.tokipona.org is excluded from wayback

oh shit, is tokipona.net down?

[noble gulch]

Yes to all those questions.

I have a set of early early dictionaries archived. I'll start putting things into places they go.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070311222858/http://tokipona.esperanto-jeunes.org/about/olddict.html

Here's the earliest dict I have: I think it's a decent approximation of the first dictionary.

[noble gulch]

This is the earliest version of that I have. https://archive.ph/K7fME

https://archive.ph/hAXzR Here's the matching one going in the opposite direction: www.tokipona.org/en-tp.php

[golden rock]

thank you

[noble gulch]

https://archive.ph/lCHe8

[upbeat summit]

People say that??
Even if it were somehow completed as of now, encyclopedia-worthy things will continue to happen

[grand marten]

@noble gulch o · sina weka e nimi soweli mute · nasin sina li seme lon ni · nimi api li awen lon · taso ala li kepeken ona lon sona mi lon sona [Linku]

(kin kulupu [Menasewi] li mu tan weka pi nimi kolo · mi la nimi poni mi li weka la · n · Fine)

[upbeat summit]

· n ·

[split grail]

fine

[upbeat summit]

nimi kolo li Historically Significant lon the very least

[noble gulch]

lon la mi lukin e ma pona li alasa e kepeken. ken suli la mi pakala lon ni. api li ken wile lon ala.

[upbeat summit]

oh yeah another thing i was forgetting

linearized Latinless sitelen sitelen font

[split grail]

unpa Wikipesija

who was gonna tell me that there was a Wikipedia Discord??
https://x.com/depthsofwiki/status/1741610494488625596?s=20

depths of wikipedia (@depthsofwiki) on X

Happy Public Domain Day eve. Just checked the Wikipedia Discord and people were writing a fanfic about Mickey Mouse falling in love with Wikipe-tan (the extremely unofficial Wikipedia mascot)

Twitter · Jan 1, 2024, 12:01 AM

sorry I was taken by the Wikipedia girl again

https://x.com/depthsofwiki/status/1737585051636772986?s=20

depths of wikipedia (@depthsofwiki) on X

average wikipedia userpage

Twitter · Dec 20, 2023, 9:25 PM

[golden rock]

reminds me of
"Igor Marchenko is a student of the linguistics school of the Higher School of Economics.
Interests: Russian dialectology, formal linguistics, Finnish, ethical hacking, and cats."

[split grail]

fjsdlkfj

literally

omg,.,,.,..

[golden rock]

i remember this

it was hialrious

[split grail]

https://x.com/depthsofwiki/status/1740554722862383400?s=20

depths of wikipedia (@depthsofwiki) on X

me thinking about it (the answer is on the tip of my tongue)

Twitter · Dec 29, 2023, 2:05 AM

us!!
https://x.com/depthsofwiki/status/1727408461133291571?s=20

depths of wikipedia (@depthsofwiki) on X

once in a blue moon, two of the most obsessive subcultures (transit, fonts) unite to create one of the most painstakingly precise wikipedia articles ever, a true feat of human diligence

Twitter · Nov 22, 2023, 7:27 PM

[upbeat summit]

hii

i'm surprised i haven't gotten any fuckin answers on this font query i've had since childhood

you would think someone would know and have it and reach out

[split grail]

https://x.com/depthsofwiki/status/1724358513944572325?s=20

depths of wikipedia (@depthsofwiki) on X

Twitter · Nov 14, 2023, 9:28 AM

[split grail]

o shit

so tragic

[upbeat summit]

it's what font are the letters in WordWorld btw

if you even care

i can only ever find near-matches it's infuriating

and sometimes i find people using what i think is the font

but they never respond

[vague aspen]

that’s literally me wtf

[split grail]

I love public domain btw
https://x.com/depthsofwiki/status/1719486120981893595?s=20

depths of wikipedia (@depthsofwiki) on X

can't wait to watch a horror movie on my favorite free streaming platform (Wikipedia)

Twitter · Oct 31, 2023, 10:46 PM

also I AM GOING INSANE how this is a ONE HOUR AND HALF MOVIE but when I try to upload a file that is LESS THAN TEN MINUTES LONG, Commons doesn't accept it because 'it's too powerful'

[grand marten]

mi alasa lili taso · taso ni li sama a tawa lukin mi · la seme a · https://fontmeme.com/wordworld-tv-series-font/

[upbeat summit]

the logo is not the same font

unforch

[grand marten]

sina wile e nasin pi soweli sitelen la · pilin mi la soweli li kepeken ala nasin

[upbeat summit]

the letters

[grand marten]

sem

pakala la mi lukin ala e ma nimi

[split grail]

OH THAT'S WORD WORLD?

OMG,. I HAVEN'T HEARD OF THAT IN SO LONG

i watched that on the computer when i was a smol little juwan

↑ non-native speaker that loved English as a child for some reason

[upbeat summit]

bad taste,,

Okay well if we're doing this in this channel

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAiZh_vVcA0_6E2?format=jpg&name=orig

on the bookshelf back there

all the letters that are not being in a word at the moment always use whatever that font is

and there are more instances of it on this old website, but of course in image form

https://web.archive.org/web/20230127062754/http://r53-vip-soup.pbskids.org/wordworld/parentsandteachers/index.html

[split grail]

sobbing

that's how I learnt the language

[upbeat summit]

Anyway iirc i think it's something like League Spartan but i haven't managed to find an exact match

[split grail]

and now you're cursed to hear me forever

[upbeat summit]

no, bad taste in languages, excellent taste in edutainment shows,,

[split grail]

gjksdkflsdf

[upbeat summit]

that doesn't spell any words. you're so Duck-coded

[grand marten]

@upbeat summit

[upbeat summit]

wha

was it called Nu Futura all along

[grand marten]

tenpo kama sin nanpa luka wan

[upbeat summit]

i'm not finding any results for this thing

[grand marten]

ilo [Google] la ona li lon lipu wan taso https://www.qiuziti.com/fontlist2?id=590718

[upbeat summit]

lon poka "WordWorldBold"

[grand marten]

nasa mute a

mi lanpan tan insa musi la

[upbeat summit]

awa

https://www.qiuziti.com/download?id=a778823c70c3edce11026549309f1eb1

how do i get it .

[grand marten]

ona li wile e mani sina

tan seme

[upbeat summit]

are there no other games

[grand marten]

mi kama jo e poki nanpa wan taso

ona li kama jo e poki ante lon tenpo kama anu seme

ona li ken lon ilo [Flashpoint]

[upbeat summit]

ilo Flashpoint mi li pakala

[grand marten]

Bweh mi o lape

mi pana e nanpa namako

a mi jo e poki tan ma pana https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/952068846037135421/1091014681151414422/e429007a-44cf-470e-94be-a81297255656.zip

ilo https://github.com/jindrapetrik/jpexs-decompiler

mi pana li pali ala tan o pi lape mi

lapeja o mi

[split grail]

do I donate 5 euro to Miraheze

[dark tree]

it's possible that it's a variant of Futura created specifically for WordWorld

[upbeat summit]

But How

[dark tree]

i would be surprised if nobody who made WordWorld knew how to edit fonts

what are the differences between NuFutura.6 and Futura Black?

maybe longer ascenders?

[split grail]

I have the got the idea to go outside for once in my life
because of Wikimedia, what if I went and took pictures that are missing

[upbeat summit]

Futura Black seems to be a stencil font so i will compare with Futura Bold:

• ⟨Cc⟩ and lowercase ⟨s⟩ have extended curves with horizontal terminals, instead of vertical and diagonal terminals, respectively
• Capital ⟨I⟩ has crossbars, instead of being the same general shape as ⟨l⟩
• ⟨j⟩ has a swash tail, instead of being straight
• The tail of ⟨Q⟩ has diagonal terminals, instead of horizontal

[upbeat summit]

tbh this is so close to being makeable into something complete. The only missing glyph that has a major difference from regular Futura is ⟨j⟩. Otherwise you could get a perfectly fine approximation by just merging in the rest of the Futura character set

[grand marten]

sitelen weka li ken lon kipisi musi ante

mi lukin e insa pi kipisi open taso

[dark tree]

ooooh okay yeah that's pretty much what i expected
they took a nice geometric font and removed the quirky bits so it looks like other fonts
good foundation for kids to learn from

[split grail]

su mi li kama :>

[grand marten]

osupo na

[split grail]

this is hilarious, why so fucking many

[golden rock]

i for one don't think sona pona should be translated

[split grail]

btw I left it in the kitchen table and my mum said 'oh it's all in English!' (she doesn't speak a lick of English) and 'oh are you sure this was a good purchase decision because there pictures are ugly and monsterous'

[split grail]

this was my reaction

[golden rock]

(she doesn't speak a lick of English)
sdflkjgsld

[split grail]

it would be great to have info in all languages :)
but we barely have enough editors to do the English version, let alone other languages, so if we are going to do that, let's get more people to do it well..,

[golden rock]

ugly and monsterous
sina toki e nimi akesi? tawa mi?

[split grail]

lonnn

[upbeat summit]

oh it's all in English!
The famous English hieroglyphs…

[split grail]

@outer stirrup do you have a PDF for this
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTPNbOI0bcy31sRnziHm0urd__61l2-N7952qNG3WXxOTzMn8NAXmouv0uzTY5eiBip4vTA1ThRTxRc/pub

[split grail]

found a little issue with this
my phone camera sucks

[grand marten]

ilo sina li seme

[split grail]

ilo mi li ilo Huawei Y6s. ona li sin ala lili
ilo lukin ona li ike lili

[grand marten]

mi lukin e ni la sitelen li ike ala

li pona wawa tawa meli lili sijelo pi toki [pona]

[split grail]

aa

meli seme a

[grand marten]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BodyTokiPona.jpg

[split grail]

gjsldfjsdlfs

btw you all. go outside
you can find shit here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby

[outer stirrup]

ala...

mi o pana e ni tawa lipu ilo ante mi lon tenpo...

[hot trout]

a sitelen musi la, mi pana e toki tawa kulupu lon tenpo pini
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/15GoP21ZjaaCcG-ni2QDfQXl7nIIFSPAkhj6jyPD3eYI/edit#slide=id.g2052a989da2_0_206

[split grail]

I did it anyway ehehe

[grand marten]

lipu tawa [[poni]] o tawa [[User:.hecko/my words]] anu o weka anu o seme

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/poni
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/User:.hecko%2Fmy_words

[lethal ether]

holy shit you found the word world font??

[grand marten]

mi kama jo e ona tan insa musi

taso musi li kepeken kipisi ale ala la ona pi kepeken ala li weka

[split grail]

good teachings

[grand marten]

linluwi la nasin sitelen ni li lon ma wan taso · ma ni li wile e mani

[split grail]

hey what if we stole that emoji for the logo--

[vague aspen]

oh great another case of me wrongly getting credit for titi pula sigh

[upbeat summit]

wait did we tell you about this before or are you just independently interested in it

[lethal ether]

i love word world

i wouldnt remember if you told us abt your interest in it before

but

i love word world

havent watched it since being a kid tho obv

[upbeat summit]

They have free episodes every week

New radio shows?

[grim mural]

I just used this to make a spoiler box template c:

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Template:Spoiler_box

I was thinking of writing plot summaries for [[tu kuntu]] and [[Nasi]], and thought this would be useful for stuff like that

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/tu_kuntu
https://sona.pona.la/wiki/Nasi

[grim mural]

and I also just added it to https://sona.pona.la/wiki/namako#References

We may want to make a separate template for quoting discussions like this, but for now it works

[split grail]

wdym namako references,..,,.

[grim mural]

for this

[noble gulch]

Looks great! Thanks for that. I'll definitely use it in the future.

[split grail]

@safe stag do you have a lesson on awen

to teach people about this horrible horrible word

that destroyed me life on ma unpa

and kills people and their mothers

[safe stag]

i have an entire prepreds (preverbs) lesson but so we're clear, my commentary on awen from ma unpa was mostly for jokes
awen can mean both "remain" and "continue", so if you tell somebody "o awen" while they're walking it actually is not clear at all which action you should take
and uhhhh we directly experienced this exact issue in san francisco LMAO

[split grail]

abababab

oh lordies can't imagine

that note I already know

[[awen]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/awen

[split grail]

it is there!!

[safe stag]

that was all i was telling you! aha

my other complaint was that why doesn't your awen have feet wtf

[split grail]

:anpa:

[split grail]

IT'S NOT MINE

GO BLAME JAN PENSAIN

PENSAMIN

AND HIS HANDWRITING THAT IS SO GOOD BUT HATES FEET

[safe stag]

super bruh moment 64

[safe stag]

that's a good kama that reminds me of pipi kewapi's but is doing the opposite thing

pipi kewapi's kama is stopping abruptly whereas this one is like, coming to a slow stop

either way distinguished kama/tawa is better than mirrored kama/tawa

[split grail]

new tawa and kama

awen

[safe stag]

@rose laurel please demolish jan juwan's tawa and kama and replace them with your own

[split grail]

you right now

[safe stag]

#sitelen-pona message

#sitelen-pona message

[split grail]

mi

oh god that tawa is sure walking

silly

[rose laurel]

HUH WHIH WHERE AMNI

[safe stag]

thread for sona.pona.la workings

[rose laurel]

Good morning how are we

It's true my tawa IS Walking

[split grail]

indeed

[split grail]

and whatever our editors are feeling up to today

being menaces obv

[rose laurel]

Well is the sona pona

[split grail]

jfkldsjfds

ALSO

I need guidance

to interpret this sentence

it is this by kule epiku Atawan

lon ma Olako (Oracle) pi ma Alisona (Arizona, U.S.) la, ma pi telo ala en weka pi ijo ante ale la, tomo suli li lon.

in this phrase is the weka referring to ma

or rather both of these are context phrases with equal standing

[rose laurel]

It would have to be the latter I think

In the desert and in the absence of other things

[split grail]

yeah

[rose laurel]

I don't think it super matters if it's actually secretly pi en tho

It's empty as fuck is the point

[split grail]

it DOES for me,.

[rose laurel]

Oh I hate that use of en anyway so I'm no help

[split grail]

:anpa:

we need the anpa emoji, it is the best one btw

[rose laurel]

Agree

mi la nimi "en" li ken ni lon nasin ni taso: ona li ken e sama tan nimi poki ante

"li weka pi ijo ante ale li telo ala la, tomo suli li lon"

seme li ni? mi wile ala pana e sona ni

mi la ni li ken ala

taso "ijo en ijo la ijo" li ken la "li ijo li ijo la ijo" en "e ijo e ijo la ijo" o ken

"taso ni la mi ken ala sona e toki" ANU SEME? ANU SEME

[split grail]

li ijo li ijo..,

for a word derivation page, I shoudl talk about [[w:Dvandva]]

[random sable]

https://sona.pona.la/wiki/w:Dvandva

[split grail]

like

[grand marten]

"nasin pi [ma suli suli] la"

[split grail]

lete seli — temperature
utala mije meli — gender battle

[grand marten]

mi la nasin pi kule epiku

nasin mi kin · nimi li li lon ala en li ken

taso nasin pi ma ni ale ala

kin kule li toki ala lon ma ni lon tenpo suuuli

ni la nasin li ma la tenpo pini weka

"nasin pi ma pona la nimi we en nimi lonsi"

[split grail]

I have seen this in other places

this is just the first result that I could find

apart from Olipija's which is a different thing

writing writing

[rose laurel]

mi sona ala e ni nanpa wan li sona e ni nanpa tu

o toki: suli lete seli

ante la, kon lete seli

ante la pilin lete seli

[split grail]

tu li ken

[rose laurel]

ni nanpa wan la lete li seli

[split grail]

jan li toki e nimi 'lete seli' tawa ni

[rose laurel]

ni nanpa tu la pilin li lete li seli

nnn. mi ken ala sona pona e ni

li kute ala e ni

[split grail]

ken la ni li sona pi tenpo pini

taso ni li sona

mi alasa kepeken ilo

ni la jan SEME LI TOKI LON LIPU POSAN

[grand marten]

ona li toki ike e meli pi jan [Sonja] lon open 😔

[split grail]

nn ""lipu pi telo walo"" li ni ala, ilo Kuko o

[rose laurel]

mi alasa lukin e musi pi telo walo (ni li ken a telo walo ante. taso) li kama ni lukin e ni taso. nasin toki mi li ijo

[split grail]

i swear i h,.eard of this stuf,f,,. before. I have learnt tokey ponar a long time ,ago,, it can't,. all be gon,e,,,;;

[vague aspen]

invite me to there

[split grail]

to destroy me more??

[vague aspen]

yes

[split grail]

you are not a kije

[dark tree]

kama li kama tawa
tawa li tawa

[split grail]

thought to add to sona pona

on [[isipin]], add a section on criticisms,. and possible alternatives