Kc Feedback Forum

[hazy delta]

I mean I know a bunch of kt/shen bozos who'd love to hop on lib if it was fun

right?

chat

[rocky glen]

meow

[tacit pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil5-wesker-erm-gif-26262084

[teal grove]

Let me type this real quick.

Current input from the conversation.
Yall want GWOT
Limited cas availability (weather that be you dont have any reaper full stop or its incredibly limited)
Armoured vics (abrams and bradleys)
US Rangers vs insurgents

(this is just bullet points roughly i wouldve taken notes had i not been eating dinner)

[zinc aurora]

no matter what perspective you're on, and even if stuff does get read, there has never any change that I've witnessed

[hazy delta]

ill writeyou a bullet point presentation (since its my idea) hold on

[plucky forge]

Actual enforcement of CAS SOPs

[royal elbow]

now that we've said all this, they know exactly what not to do for the next campaign

[teal grove]

Real talk anything yall give me stuff I can always as.

[tacit pasture]

More SOP enforcement too I suppose

[sinful sable]

well
GWOT or 1989 Cold War
I prefer the 2nd option on reaper
Armor is very nice
We could also just do Marines with the SRAW and Dragon III

[teal grove]

Oh i bring up the things yall say.

[sinful sable]

hell, we could even do something in Kosovo

that would unlock my favourite thing that would probably never happen

[plucky forge]

Also Imperial Guard vs Chaos

[royal elbow]

I 100% believe you do

doesnt mean cs will do anything

[tacit pasture]

Halo campaign anybody

[rocky glen]

yes please

[royal elbow]

would be too much fun

[rocky glen]

meow meow

[regal onyx]

We've been having fun with boats lately

[teal grove]

for example the binoculars and the slight change in medical someone mentioned (these are justrecent examples) but i brought it up although nither had the outcome people wanted the reasoning was not just a no. For example the binoculars for various reasons dont work with the arsenal (we tried a lot) the medical one was by making it more complex it moves away from the current medical which although simple fits Lib as a whole (although there are some things that the old system had ie the blood pressure thing- this gets brought up constantly to me) some things are dooable with it some arent.

[rocky glen]

rioz hasnt 💀

[hazy delta]

Guh how to fix lib

• go GWOT or not neer peer like against modern ISIS again
• removed FW CAS and limited RW to like LOS stuff or expensive apache or smth
• faction accurate vehicles, so no rangers with ABRAMS and BRADS
• ISIS dont have T-90Ms and shi, like older pattons and t-55s that we can kill with MAAWS, JAVs AT-4s etc
• Limited manpads, no SAMs cuz no SEAD
• idk what else

[teal grove]

We have been walking recently (at least last op i did) I missed this weekends one as I was unwell 🙁

[royal elbow]

the medical only changed bc they literally had to switch tho

[regal onyx]

Rioz needs to lock in

[sinful sable]

(also let's not pretend GWOT has only been your idea botan)

[teal grove]

that to (i was relating to a specific suggestion

[sinful sable]

I've always advocated for either 1989 or 2003 again

[rocky glen]

Real just stop getting armad

[sinful sable]

or 2001 in Kosovo

[hazy delta]

or crazy state of the server chat

yeah

trust

CS go like uhhh yeah so this is the state of the server idk

https://tenor.com/view/frieren-葬送のフリーレン-anime-nervous-twitching-gif-16502130539474685817

[teal grove]

Once this campaign finishes (or near the end) I will bring this up. I do support the GWOT Idea fully as I love that era.

[hazy delta]

one could say the vision

[rocky glen]

https://tenor.com/view/mafuyu-mafu-mafuyu-asahina-mafu-asahina-asahina-gif-4558064769355048879

[zinc aurora]

see like this message is the only sort of acknowledgment of anything the community has been saying, and these things are from a while ago

[rocky glen]

who knows you may end up liking gafs ❤️

[teal grove]

Wheres the gif

[tacit pasture]

GWOT is the perfect middle ground. Doesnt lean on tech, but not void of it completely to the point it alienates people

[teal grove]

I dont mind them as much as some of the others.

[sinful sable]

so yeah, here's my idea here for you to also bring up
limited and restricted CAS because we HAVE WAYS TO ACHIEVE THAT (FW AND RW)
we can go 1989 for Cold War or even 2001 Kosovo or 2003 GWOT
idm faction accuracy but I'd rather do Marines than Rangers for the Dragon III and the SRAW, also we can still get some armor in for the armor boys.
We can fight against some tanks such as T-55s and T-72s especially with the new AT stuff I proposed too
Limited manpads and limited air presence

[rocky glen]

wait till you watch butcher parry an rpg

in a street barely the size of a truck

[tacit pasture]

ACV gameplay

[hazy delta]

I mean look at KC ops, people can have fun with limited tech

[rocky glen]

as cursed as that thing was it was hilarious

[hazy delta]

like uncag AKS and shi

and we've done GWOT before where not everyone has a radio, is doable

[sinful sable]

yep

[hazy delta]

bla bla

tldr state of the server

[rocky glen]

whatsapp cqc

[sinful sable]

I just wish I could partake more for kc ops at this time, sadly life is busy

[regal onyx]

Cosmic uncon moment

[tacit pasture]

just look at Fallujah. No arguments cuz we had no reaper, assets out the gate, no supplies to spend. Consistent pop of like over 50.

[plucky forge]

Solution for Demon pilots being dumb - Force enable Advanced Flight Model server wide

[rocky glen]

rip keyboard players

[plucky forge]

just stop being poor

[rocky glen]

true

[sinful sable]

just stop talking

-_-

[hazy delta]

zubau

[rocky glen]

💀

[zinc aurora]

no then you're just gonna have more crashes, and for people who do know how to fly it doesn't fix the issue of them just nuking points

[plucky forge]

They can't nuke the point if they can't fly to the point

[hazy delta]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-dog-silly-dog-propeller-hat-propeller-hat-dog-gif-4764495627579170054

[sinful sable]

so yeah, @teal grove, what do you say of my own proposal

[teal grove]

Im typing some notes ect rn

[regal onyx]

Jokes on you, I have a nice hotas and pedals but i dont know how to fly

[hazy delta]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1198622280700416090/1462569706148987022/togif.gif

[regal onyx]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1342556477516156949/1476667191272149053/caption.gif

[rocky glen]

https://tenor.com/view/ena-ena-shinonome-shinonome-shinonome-ena-niigo-gif-14917511561616613556

[hazy delta]

https://tenor.com/view/mizuki-akiyama-mizuki-akiyama-akiyama-mizuki-mizuki-nodding-gif-9561210243243649726

[teal grove]

alr i expaned the notes a lil.

GWOT Era campaign or something non neer peer;
Weather this be we fight early 200's or modern day or cartel ect.
If early 2000's GWOT you would like more accurate vehicles - such as the T-55's and technicals with various offensive capabilities (i cba typing that bit fully)

Friendly factions to have completely accurate vehicles;
IE marines dont have the Abrams and Bradleys.
example;
US Army - has Abrams bradley ect
US Marines - limited to ACV-30 and Lav 25
Rangers - even more limited (I couldnt find the thing i needed for this bit)

Removal of FW Cas and limited RW to LOS stuff or alternative is the Apache or something in a similar capability ect. Alternatively to this reducing the number of FW Cas slots could also benifit - not completely removing it but removing some of it.

Limit manpads - alternatively reduce them.

SOP stuff (i have a note here that i wont attach on this message)

[sinful sable]

pretty much

[quiet flicker]

And make Peanut livestream it so the server explodes with 16 year olds

[sinful sable]

I would still add the Dragon III if we have any sort of armor though, partially because I am of the opinion that infantry having cooler boomsticks is a nice way to expand the experience

ideally the SRAW too

but that would require a separate mod

[rocky glen]

ACV mod is a lil brokey that shit is genuinely unkillable and would wipe points

[sinful sable]

unlike the dragon III which has regularly featured in our existing modpacks

[hazy delta]

Looks good

[plucky forge]

I would argue for increasing MANPADs and AA so that people stop hovering 500m in the air in clear line of sight to the point with absolutely no cover.

[rocky glen]

Unless they fixed it iunno

[hazy delta]

Rangers run the Stryker

Rangers would run the 50 and mk19 stryker

and the whats it called

[rocky glen]

mk19 Stryker my beloved

[rocky glen]

dragoon?

[hazy delta]

no

the 105 mm

MGs

MGS

[rocky glen]

MGS

metal gear solid

[sinful sable]

oh yeah, the MGS would be real nice too

[teal grove]

Oh im aware from the altis campaign we did its broken slightly - as not to limit the asset from use entirely its just expensive af

is that even a thing the MGS Stryker (for arma)

[rocky glen]

Yes

[hazy delta]

we useed it

in lib

soo

[rocky glen]

It's a really good mod but it's literally paper

[sinful sable]

yes

[rocky glen]

I guess that's the point tho

[teal grove]

I want to find it

[sinful sable]

we got the MGS strkyer because we couldn't have the other clown car

the Rooikat 120 UP

(one of the few times I drove a butcher asset voluntarily because it was fun to drive)

[hazy delta]

cool man

[bold harness]

or instead of the apache we can use cobra as it has a weaker gun bad thermals and camera

[sinful sable]

lemme see if I still have the mod

[sinful sable]

cobra for marines

[hazy delta]

no

shut up bunker

thats marines

for rangers you get maybe apache

or DAP

[teal grove]

GWOT Era campaign or something non neer peer;
Weather this be we fight early 200's or modern day or cartel ect.
If early 2000's GWOT you would like more accurate vehicles - such as the T-55's and technicals with various offensive capabilities (i cba typing that bit fully)

Friendly factions to have completely accurate vehicles;
IE marines dont have the Abrams and Bradleys.
example;
US Army - has Abrams bradley ect humvee's the trucks(i cant mind how to spell the name of)
US Marines - limited to ACV-30 and Lav 25 other basic stuff humvee's ect.
Rangers - Stryker's lots of strykers - humvee's ect

Removal of FW Cas and limited RW to LOS stuff or alternative is the Apache or something in a similar capability ect. Alternatively to this reducing the number of FW Cas slots could also benifit - not completely removing it but removing some of it.

Limit manpads - alternatively reduce them.

Still typing stuff as i go

[hazy delta]

more expensive DAP with 4 hellfires and Hydras at like 800 Supplies

[bold harness]

yes i am saying if we do marines then we use cobra

[sinful sable]

(and since I advocated for marines over rangers yeah cobra)

[bold harness]

not apaches like we did in other campaigns

[teal grove]

Marines get cobra - army gets apache - rangers get DAP

[sinful sable]

yeeee

anyway lemme find you the MGS mod we used

[rocky glen]

w chungus

[teal grove]

thanks

[hazy delta]

Realistically rangers can get any type of CAS

[bold harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1328147698389614632/1482305927234453646/attachment.gif

[hazy delta]

So apache would still be realistic

[teal grove]

yeah

AC-130 when

[rocky glen]

Real

[hazy delta]

server go kaboom

[sinful sable]

but again, I cannot stress this enough, if we do marines we should really consider also using all the marine boomsticks

[rocky glen]

Server go boom

[teal grove]

we used it in feb for a op

[bold harness]

time to run the ac-119 again trust

[rocky glen]

That's sick

[teal grove]

was fun af to hear it in the distance

[plucky forge]

DAP and Apache are both Army. Just not going to really ever see 160th working with regular units

[rocky glen]

I've used the ac-130 a handful of times it is genuinely really fun but it would not fit this server at all 😭

[teal grove]

yeah - that was why i typed it that way more so, as you mentioned the 160th are doubtfully going to work with regular grunts

[hazy delta]

you get m777 and a chinook 130 at home

[rocky glen]

That's aura ngl

[teal grove]

nah that was a joke more so than anything - Its cool af though

[plucky forge]

Just let me shoot the 777 from the back of the truck

[sinful sable]

so uhhh

we might have a problem

[hazy delta]

@teal grove deadass curious about a response to all this btw

[sinful sable]

I can't find the MGS mod, not in the workshop either

[rocky glen]

It's so insanely fun for both parties if you have a dedicated mission set for it

It's just v niche

[teal grove]

It wont be until near the end of the campaign that i mention it - just as that tend to be when discussions happen regarding next campaign ect

[sinful sable]

so we might not be able to get the MGS

[teal grove]

the mod got removed right

[sinful sable]

yep

[teal grove]

or stopped being supported.

[sinful sable]

removed

not unsupported

sadge

but still, I yearn for marines GWOT with cool boomstick

[rocky glen]

fly high mgs

[hazy delta]

https://tenor.com/view/nightcord-frosting-cupcake-pjsk-project-sekai-gif-9467493535693821231

[rocky glen]

https://tenor.com/view/project-sekai-sekai-proseka-pjsk-prsk-gif-17679808980906750947

[sinful sable]

also uhhh

I think this is a change we can borrow
but we should make it a more set piece scenario so no civ rep and stuff and more relaxed ROE for infantry-based explosives for GWOT

[teal grove]

I think thats hard coded for the lib mod itself i wont lie.

[sinful sable]

we've had scenarios where it didn't matter

so that's what I mean

so realistically I mean not having points flip for civ rep shit

no factories and set assets

[magic salmon]

I mean, Civillians exist in GWOT warfare. They don't just dissapear. Just RP/act as if the point taken over is just the opfor taking it back..

[sinful sable]

because another thing I feel like holding the infantry back a little is how discouraged infantry are from using anything but pure kinetic force

[magic salmon]

Do something interesting with it, do a mini op.

idk

[magic salmon]

IDK What infantry you're playing, but the groups I'm on with are not scared to push and engage a point which contains civvies lol

[sinful sable]

yeah, but with what weapons

[magic salmon]

GL-Launchers - w/p - Grenades.

PID matters, have a recon, blow some shit up.

[sinful sable]

certainly never the experience I've ever had, but yeah assuming we use fallujah again this is gonna matter real hard

and especially because infantry should be encouraged to use explosive weapons when necessary (and have more options for those)

[magic salmon]

I will admit the options lack, but I figure it's mostly because some newby will use a launcher on a cluster of Ei in some trees as a pose to on armor.

[sinful sable]

oh ik
it's just that I think there's a bit of dopamine to be had when you create a loud ass bang

versus just shooting someone and watching them drop (or not)

dopamine like that goes a good bit towards retention

[ebon badge]

Man's never played kill KOG before

[teal grove]

🤣 I meant in LIB Terms.

[raven sable]

I think another component is how we actually play, very rarely do I see much strategy beyond just walking to a hill and shooting for 20 mins or Crimean War style infantry pushes into defended positions

Never any mechanised movements, envelopments (regular or airborne), Thunder Runs or even just two squads working to flank. Just sending wave after wave till we take it

Obviously new people won't want to play when we attack every point exactly the same

It's particularly bad in nam, where no one seems to understand that there will always be enemies in the backline and that dropping people >1km from the platoon will just lead to them getting wiped before reaching friendly

[spare hollow]

So I did not go back and read everything since earlier, but woah; seems I missed a discussion.

On @raven sable's point: I like the idea of sitting down and working out a strategy, but it almost seems like we would need to rehearse these things, do them over and over (same way) in order to get good at them to be able to apply them effectively.
At the same time, how do you keep people engaged who: have short attention spans or (more likely in my opinion) x time to play and (when inserting takes 40 min) want to get into some action and (maybe) make some kind of impact.

For instance: My wife is a gamer and will play Helldivers 2 with me (we used to couch co-op Helldivers 1) but when I invite her to Arma she says something to the effect of, "Take an hour to get set up and die from a stray bullet; no thanks". It's a real concern (the time investment) and it deserves attention.

Further, a round of Helldivers 2 is at most 40 minutes; that's sometimes the setup here. Obviously I like this game and specifically this server, I'm just commenting in the pursuit of finding something that allows for the technique/strategy training/application and getting more people while considering what is a reality for many; I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

[raven sable]

Also this is such a useless point people always bring up (no offence to you ofc), all you have do to is name it "totally not Iran" and no one will care, I mean we done H&M Takistan right after the Irl fall of Afghanistan and the first campaign was Takistan while the war was still ongoing

[quiet flicker]

The server and map itself is unfortunately what leads to us having to do the tactics we do.

If we maneuver substantially at all we proc more points which brings more EI towards us. It’s impossible to envelope and flank without spawning new enemies to worry about. Every objective has this issue except the ones we intentionally work around and save for ops.

[visual trail]

it does not take any plan whatsoever to use basic tactics

and so long as leadership knows them you'll be fine

[zinc aurora]

also if you're sending like a platoon vs like 3 companies of russians + armor it's gonna be a slog no matter how good your plan is

and you know what they say about plans and first contact

[visual trail]

also a grand platoon strategy is less of an issue if individual squads get fucked by them just clumping up together and getting wacked in first contact

you need to get people spaced out, organised and maneuvering

[quiet flicker]

That brings us back to the whole spacing issue, though. Hard to space out and maneuver when that capital 2km away will proc and send all its guys your way.

It might make best of both worlds if you set up a 1-8 OP on your flank and have all the airbozos rip the contact flanking you from that aforementioned capital, but with just infantry assets you can't really maneuver without procing a point

[regal onyx]

L shape ambush against Ai opfor in lib when

[spare hollow]

To clarify @visual trail ,are you saying: if an SL knows what they need and say it to the players (regardless of them knowing the tactic themselves) the players will be able to execute the tactic? Is it because the SL put's the tactic in 'layman's' terms? (Note: text does not lend itself to tone well, this is not sarcasm.)

[royal elbow]

I lowkey believe they started adding more points to the maps to have to do less work

we used to proc one or two points at a time with 100 people on the sever

bc the points were spaced out

[ebon badge]

Spacing is simple 5-10m spacing depending on terrain. Formation is simple, wedge for open areas (not necessary), column for dense foliage, line for engagements. Have first mg on flank where expected contact as is (defined as heavy left or right).
Squad level:
Point teams moves until contact. Rear team gets on line either left or right. Ideal world you can take rear team and flank around, but usually not enough manpower or fire superiority can be generated by one squad. Keep fireteam flanking to a minimum unless in urban.

Platoon Level:
Squads should be in file dictated by 1-6. 1-4 can be guns attached or as their own element when on the move. Squad on point takes contact. 2nd squad will wait for first squad or 1-6 to make the call for online or flank. If fire superiority is achieved then 2nd squad will begin to maneuver to make an L shaped ambushed. If fire superiority is not achieved, then 2nd gets on line and suppresses. Then the next element comes to create the flank. If that cannot be done. 1-6 will either decide a general break contact or remain on line to face contact. Now if committed to engagement, squads on the flank of the line has one team dedicated for flank security for left or right and one (medic) watching rear for envelopment. Once contact is dealt with. The element that took the least of the fight takes point. Rinse and repeat.

Left side pics are plt movement and right side of image would be the first squad on the left with a team covering left security and medic watching rear.
Everything in the military is kept super simple tactics wise. Its understanding terrain and how to use weapons systems effectively that make the diff.

[teal grove]

For what its worth having looked over the photos i have of the previous maps looks like this isnt the case (for the sake of keeping things simple i added the photos from some of the previous maps and this current one.) With the last 2 photos those are the same map from 2 seperate years one being last year and the 2nd being this year - the number of points are identical.

[royal elbow]

i’m taking like four years ago

[teal grove]

My point is more its been consistent since i joined

The stuff scales on how many people are on aswell, so sometimes if you proc 3 points it spawns a ridiculous amount of stuff

[royal elbow]

look at this isr from 3 years ago when the pop was 10x what it is now

if the pops gonna be lower, like whoever’s suggestion it was they should just put less

[teal grove]

Looks the same as when we did altis no change to the points that are there

[visual trail]

Basic infantry tactics are already pretty simple, but for example, if you want your squad to bound, you don't need to say like, "alright we are going to do alternating bounding" you can just say, "we are going to be bounding, alpha stay here and cover, bravo move 20m forward stop and call set" then once they call set just tell alpha to move 20m past bravo

Too many people over complicate basic shit with loads of tactical buzz words and it makes shit so much more confusing and harder to learn

[spare hollow]

Thank you for sharing this @ebon badge . Where did you learn this from and where could someone who is not this experienced learn this from? Field manuals? Certain YouTube channels? Training sessions?

[spare hollow]

Thank you @visual trail.
In this example (which I would agree is simple in it's scope), you used the terms 'bounding', 'cover', 'call set' and imply that alpha knows to move past bravo when set is called.
How would a new player or someone without a military background know: what bounding means, what it means to provide cover or what calling set is and what is expected of them when it is done; especially while/if they're being shot at the game? Is it up to the FTLs to guide them?

[spare hollow]

Agreed. I don't think I've ever heard anyone explain what the MSR (Main Supply Route: the primary road, highway, or path within an area of operations used for the majority of traffic, logistics, and supply movements (Just looked this up)) is but will say, "Move to the MSR" or "Move in along the MSR" regularly.

Would you sooner say, "Peel right 200 meters" or something like "Cover each other and move right 200 meters" or "Cover each other and move right to the top of the hill"?

Thanks everyone who's talking through all of this.

[visual trail]

I literally explained what each team is going to do

And it would be mainly up to the FTLs

Also tbf what i didn't say there is at the start I will always say how I'm going to run the squad so everyone knows what's going to be happening and shit

So I give a brief run down of the formation (but I always say to just focus on the spacing between the teams and each other, don't necessarily worry about being in a wedge) then I also give a quick run down of reaction to contact, bounding and squad assualt

That takes at most 5-10 minutes

I make sure I keep things simple because its sooo much easier for everyone

Don't need to start through the tactical buzz words that some people fucking like worship lmao

[visual trail]

I learnt from americans so peeling wasn't really a thing for me originally, plus I find its easier to just bound right as teams

I also don't think ive ever really said MSR outside of like to people I know, I'd honestly just say the main road or the tarmac road or whatever is the best way to describe it

Most likely avenue of approach as well I guess

[gray python]

Msr is rarely if ever said by anyone outside of command or logistics personnel

[visual trail]

It's never really relevant since you don't see vehicles moving to reinforce from other points

[ebon badge]

I is a history nut, so read a lot about military doctrine and breakdowns throughout the ages.

Best video to watch would be platoon tactics from the US army either Vietnam or WW2. Covers fire and maneuver. After that, fire team tactics are just smaller platoon movements done on squad level so that overall is easier to digest .

Or just read art of war. All of its seems super basic info, but generally it establishes the ground rules for all warfare dos and donts

[visual trail]

The whole point of art of war was to teach people who know fuck all how to fight

Because back then rank was given by status

[ebon badge]

Ci but it is the basis most militaries cover. It's like the ultimate ground zero to start bc it covers movements, placement and logistics

[teal grove]

For the most part infantry tactics havent evolved much since then.

[ebon badge]

Everything else gets refined over time to fit the scope of each military

[ebon badge]

Well the force multiplier changed. Infantry now have way more capability then back then, but at the cost of freedom of movement. Mechanized infantry is very similar to dragoon warfare from Napoleonic times

[teal grove]

Force mutliplier changed with technology - the base tactics tought have been the same for a long time. There are some slight differences between countries however at its core its almost identical.

[visual trail]

The Japanese used fire and maneuver tactics in 1905

[ebon badge]

War never changes, just the spacing in between units

[visual trail]

Main difference is that tactics have been moved down to smaller and smaller units as they get more capable weapons

The advent of GPMGs are shit meant that squads could effectively do fire and maneuver, so long as they didn't take too many casualties lol

[teal grove]

I think a core difference between some of it is that in the UK we have the gpmg integrated in the squad (we dont have autorifleman anymore as we swapped to the GPMG from the minimi)

[ebon badge]

Shoot even the Romans were using fire and maneuver. Every legionary either had a pillum or slingshot with them. Humans suck at reinventing the wheel

[visual trail]

Lol

[visual trail]

Apparently we might be getting a new lmg

[teal grove]

UK ? if so yeah but not till like 2035

[visual trail]

The guy I talked said he wants it to be like the MK48 lol

7.62 my beloved

[teal grove]

Its not 7.62

[visual trail]

The 48 is, the 46 is 5.56

[teal grove]

As it stands at the end of the GPMG's service life they are wanting a new 5.56 LMG platform

[visual trail]

As is the time frame with anything mod related

[teal grove]

its doubtful it will be done on time haha its just the thing thats been stated

It does change the core setup of our infantry squads

[visual trail]

I mean they could decide they want 7.62 for the same reason they replaced the LMGs with the GPMG

[teal grove]

Doubtfully I think they already stated 5.56

there was a reasoning behind it as well but i cant remember it

[visual trail]

Probably lighter or smth

[teal grove]

It swaps the layout of the squad/fireteam once intigrated

[visual trail]

More rounds to go down range in a fight, and easier to move with it

[visual trail]

Not by much tho, GPMG gets replaced with LMG and then one of the riflemen gets an LMG

Unless they want to make it complicated lol

[teal grove]

A squad has one GPMG currently

[visual trail]

Yh

[teal grove]

It just changes the layout

[visual trail]

So replace the GPMG with the LMG and give a Rifleman another LMG, depending on how many they want in a section

[teal grove]

so it is possible it becomes more like the rangers fireteam layout

As apose to the current one

[visual trail]

What is the ranger layout?

[teal grove]

US Ranger*

sorry shouldve specified

[visual trail]

Ohh yh

[plucky forge]

US (national park) Ranger

[visual trail]

I mean us ranger just uses standard us army squad structure

[teal grove]

Or if you remember the early 2000's layout

[teal grove]

Yeah its
1x SL
2x FTL
2x Grenadier
2x AR
1x Rifleman
1x ARFR

British currently is a bit more spreadout

[visual trail]

Yh we got like 12 man sections as well

[teal grove]

as you have the TL and SL then gpmg,grenadiers,rifleman, medic and sharpshooter

[visual trail]

Medic is changing

And its more of a "medic"

[teal grove]

medic is the rough word of it

its called CMT

[visual trail]

No

CMT is platoon medic

[teal grove]

wheres the other bit let me find it

[visual trail]

Squad medic does not have nearly the amount of training

And they are changing to a combat life saver and using MARCH instead of CABCDE

[teal grove]

I have the wording somewhere im trying to find it

[visual trail]

CMT is an actual medic like a us army medic

https://www.army.mod.uk/news/new-combat-life-saver-role-to-enhance-british-army-s-casualty-care/

[teal grove]

CLS has technically existed for a while

[visual trail]

It is from mid last year

But yh, team medic is not an actual medic medic

Just a guy with a little extra medical training

[sinful sable]

Uhhhh
Squad stuff here is weird
Since it essentially follows the soviet scheme but there's hardly any info on them too

[spare hollow]

Ah okay, thanks @visual trail. Do you just mention to late joiners when you get a chance then?

[spare hollow]

Right fair enough.

[spare hollow]

I've had it said to me a few times and I was like, "Right... right..." and just looked for unit markers.

[visual trail]

Yh, never really had many late joiners tbh, but they could also get a good general idea based off of everyone else as well

[visual trail]

Just ask what stuff is it you don't understand it lol

Guarentee you people get annoyed much less if you say straight away than wait until it messes shit up and then ask lol

[spare hollow]

Yeah makes sense. Thanks @visual trail and everyone who responded.

[raven sable]

Tbh different maps never really change how we play:

Great European plain perfect for combined arms -> fly/drive kinda close then walk to the point in a cluster/line and die a bunch

Mountainous Afghanistan with long sightlines for snipers/armour -> fly/drive kinda close then walk to the point in a cluster/line and die a bunch

Jungles of Vietnam where air assault and envelopments are ideal: fly kinda close then walk to the point in a cluster/line and die a bunch

This kind of strategy (plus little to no communication) also means actual CAS is very rarely done, leading to 1-8 giving strategic missions to assets, which is another common complaint here

I think part of this is people being scared to lose any assets, as any loss leads to people complaining thus encouraging playing it super safe, making it less fun for said asset and inf

[sinful sable]

oh btw, just to comment on this a little

I remember back when people weren't taking the piss out of others in command and actually worked together to address problems when air assets died

Certainly helped a lot with pilot confidence to do actual CAS and not sit their ass back

[teal grove]

Honestly loosing assets doesnt matter as long as it wasnt to something stupid noone will complain. But if your using stuff to its effectiveness and you loose it so what it got used for its intended purpose.

The strategy people use is down to squad leaders, your squad leader controls most aspects of the squad from the way they want to set up the fireteams, to how yall move towards something. If its that bad say hey could we do it this way to them and maybe they will take it onboard and implement it into what they are doing.
Honestly communication is just imrpoved by having others on. people get use to not needing to communicate as theres like 2 of them with radios. improved communication comes from having people play with others, it does help though when you have people that are use to stuff.

CAS is being used less as a support and more as its own thing (which i think is the complaint from people. Instead of it being like hey we have a armoured vehicle in our way Can you hit it so we can go about things unimpeded it becomes oh i see this let me hit it.

[quiet flicker]

Well, what I mean with my comment isn't the geography or terrain, but rather how close each POI is. Our maneuvering is affected by how close each objective is to other objectives, because maneuvering at all just means you proc multiple other objectives that send their EI your way and fuck you over way more than just staying on a hill and hunkering. idk if that makes sense

[obsidian kestrel]

IMO one of lib issue is also that low pops changed the dynamic. In a ideal scenario, we have at least a platoon of inf with logistic support (ogre/Stalker) with support Assets (Butcher, Demon, Reaper)

Now in low pop, getting more boot on ground would reduce whatever support/logistic u have. Unless ur a hardcore logi player, youll be spening 95% of your time waiting to resupply someone while propable will be rare as most people will die and respawn. That also cause a logistic issue of transporting troops to frontline. You will have to multirole being on the front and moving back to trasnport the grunts.

Hence PB is the main method of trasnportation which allows inf to keep deploying to the field withouit wasting much human resource

Stalker is the second best for moving troops as its quick, provided u have a LZ and its secured

[visual trail]

Yh except in low pop what tends to happen is you get like 5 line guys and then the next 20 are either command and support slots

Then you cant do anything because 1 casualty is like 20% of your combat capabilities

So you're basically fucked in any contact

[crimson wasp]

25 guys in low pop i wish

[spare hollow]

Yeah, agreed; we've been sitting at 4-11 or so most nights (admittedly, I've not been on this week).

[crimson wasp]

whenever I look to see if is should get on its 0

[quiet flicker]

it's 9 right now, but we've been legit lucky to break 15 the last week or so. I can pull battlemetrics again one sec

player count peaked last 7D at 20 people on Friday, 1900 hours. Other peaks were 16, 14, 13, 13, 13. Today we peaked at 13 two hours ago.

It's been rough.

[magic salmon]

I lowkey have been working a lot last week and just had new PC parts come. So will be building that and then I’ll be on over the weekend!

[zinc aurora]

lib could do with a winter map tbh

hasn't been done since before I even joined this server 2 years ago

[crimson wasp]

it has been done

[zinc aurora]

since before I even joined this server 2 years ago

[crimson wasp]

sorry that sentence didn't make sense to me then

[quiet flicker]

I was thinking of this too I think that'd be lit. Dosn't have to be a huge map

[raven sable]

Napf winter would be my preference (Swiss Army lib?!?!?)

[quiet flicker]

Only if we can drive a leopard

[sinful sable]

Yeeeeee

[hazy delta]

glub glub

[cloud oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/pog-gif-14149886028736974766

[rocky glen]

blugigi

[cloud oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/screaming-fish-fish-fish-finger-gif-9883040399517041611

[visual trail]

https://tenor.com/view/teen-titans-go-nofun-pop-balloon-gif-11338824

[honest oyster]

Just read koncrete’s post from the 30th, about how the server seems like its dying with an inability to maintain player counts.

As a reforger player who is new to arma 3, i find that KC Lib gives me an experience that I cant find anywhere else. The struggle of combat is so visceral, every engagement is so violent- surviving a firefight is an accomplishment.

The lack of radios, having to rely on real soldiering skills, and a community dedicated to proper military teamwork provides a level of immersion that is unparalleled by any new title. The community is by far the best selling point.

We have to advertise the server, and I have an idea:

If it’s not there already, we need to post Karma Company as a unit on MILSIM Units. Get everyone voting on it every day and pretty quick i bet yall will get a podcast interview.

I really wanted to ping the admins but in the interest of not bothering them I’m going to tag @quiet flicker to see what he thinks. If it’s a good enough idea we can tag the admins. Seriously though, this is an easy and effective way to boost the server visibility.

[quiet flicker]

I had to look up MILSIM Units, and I have to say that on the surface this looks like a very promising alternative to seeking out Youtube endorsements, particularly because it's likely to bring in a more serious and mature crowd than YT Vids and also because we won't have to rely on a busy youtuber to make and post videos.

The admins (in particular, Lee) monitor this thread very regularly so I imagine your post will be seen soon without having to ping anyone. And given Lee's strong work recently in keeping this server operational, there's a good chance he'll shoot your suggestion up the chain.

I like it!

[honest oyster]

Milsim units is huge, its the center of the universe for milsim gaming right now, its the best thing thats ever happened for the genre.

If we advertise the unit on there, i guarantee we would get a steady inflow of new interest.

[quiet flicker]

My friend who wants more realism out of titles like battlefield doesn't understand why I like KC Lib so much. When I told him it's PvE 99% of the time, he was kind of disappointed. But damn does it feel good to have so many different working pieces come together to accomplish a unified goal.

1-1 grenadier: SL I'm out of HE 40 mike mikes
SL: Understood, RTO can you relay to 6?
1-1R: 1-6 romeo, 1-1 romeo, requesting supplies for the unit
1-6R: copy, will relay
1-6R: hey 6, can we get supplies for 1-1?
1-6: sure, hey 8, can you set up logi for the line squads?
1-8A: stalker 1, 1-8 on 80, can we get supplies to HLZ Resupply?
Stalker 1: 1-8, stalker, acknowledged.

Like come on man that's so cool. Just to get some extra grenades you have this whole supply chain involving 6 other people supporting each other and the platoon as a whole

[sharp charm]

This community does have a MILSIM group called KOG. Every once in awhile they open up applications to join that as it is by invitation only. You have to be dedicated to that though as it requires your time and commitment.

[sharp charm]

Sorry I forgot to mention you all. 🙄

[honest oyster]

Yes, but this would be different- KOG is a very different experience than KarmaCompany.

Karma Company should be its own “unit”, and advertise what it offers on milsim units.

[sharp charm]

Yeah I know but the server is a public one and trying to turn itinto a stricter MILSIM unit wont happen. People come and go here so much harder to create what you are speaking of. One of the main things is that we keep the LIB server simple so that it gives new and old players a unit like feeling but not a full souped up milsim unit

[honest oyster]

Absolutely, and i fully agree! Dont change a thing, just market the experience we offer here

Every unit’s page has a description along with some basic information. I’ll draft up something and post it here

[sharp charm]

https://units.arma3.com/unit/karmakut

[magic salmon]

This is less about gathering attention though. The traction from MILSIM units is 10x more effective.

Having a Karma Company with the aspect of public and a well crafted description could bring in some new faces.

I support the idea

[honest oyster]

Done

Its a free service, although you can pay for premium and get a discord bot that auto reminds everyone to “vote” every day.

The more votes a unit gets every day, the higher on the list it goes. Most units get like 20 votes a day so that would be easy for this group.

[sharp charm]

Put your idea into suggestions cause here it will be buried and get lost in time.

Since this is the feedback section of it

[honest oyster]

Will do 🫡

[honest oyster]

Done

[visual trail]

the issue was that a lot of people just moved over to actual milsim units that actually provide a milsim experience because lib does not provide the same experience you would see in Karmas videos (the main pull to the server) so people either joined KOG, KT or any other milsim unit that provided a similar experience to what they saw in karmas videos

[teal grove]

In all fairness a good bit of the guys that moved into Kog and KT still play in certain campaigns obviously you have the smaller group that play every campaign

[visual trail]

yh definetely, but a lot of people just simply dont play anymore

[quiet flicker]

One reason I'm not interested in KOG/KT (regardless of invitation-only status, though I'd be willing to bet that you can "implicitly ask" for an invitation) is that it supposedly has a somewhat rigid schedule. The beauty of KC Lib is that it's online almost always.

[visual trail]

thats the trade off for organisation

[plucky forge]

I usually don't have a schedule that supports a rigidly organised schedule like that and milsims tend to end up annoying me. I'll identify something being done incorrectly, citing either an actual publication or personal experience from my career. But instead of taking that feedback and adjusting, they just get mad at me.

[visual trail]

what did/do you do?

[plucky forge]

Was a UH60 mechanic and crew chief in the army. Still in the Army, just in training for now

[visual trail]

fair enough lol

[plucky forge]

Although this server isn't the worst I've seen for that. Got into an argument on an RP server because a guy thought radio comms went "this is me, calling you" instead of "hey you, this is me" and refused to believe otherwise

[visual trail]

ive had my fair share of people being dumb and then not taking any feedback on their dumbness

i did a training with some canadian group and they had us walking in the open with tree lines either side of us and a machine gunner who complained people were shooting faster than him despite him shooting 3 rounds every like 10 seconds lol

[quiet flicker]

shut up

[plucky forge]

?

[visual trail]

hes mad at you

[quiet flicker]

"But instead of taking that feedback and adjusting, they just get mad at me."

Just being snarky

#1248944616766443582 message

@thorny thorn

[thorny thorn]

I still can't believe I was doing it wrong this whole time 🤣

[plucky forge]

If you're shooting to emulate realism, and I identify that you're doing it incorrectly - citing either publications or my experience as someone who has actually done stuff - but you refuse to adjust, then you aren't trying to be realistic.

If you want to say I'm being snarky about it, then fine. Coming out and just saying "shut up" is just fucking disrespectful

[quiet flicker]

My friend, this is a misunderstanding; you said other people just get mad at you. I'm jokingly getting mad at you and saying shut up, in other words I'm riffing a bit and pretending I'm the person getting mad at you. "Just being snarky" was me -- I'm the one just being snarky. Just a joke!

[thorny thorn]

If you're ever around when I'm on and you've noticed I've done something wrong, I'll happily take some constructive criticism to try and improve my realism and knowledge 💪

[visual trail]

he was making a joke lol

dw

[plucky forge]

Wasn't the way I was reading it

[quiet flicker]

Yeah, text is hard, but I assure you it was just a joke. Read it like I was jokingly acting as if I was the guy getting mad at you and I think that'll clear it up

I was also on the phone as I wrote those jokes, so they probably didn't get communicated as well as they otherwise would

Back to the topic; I think your best bet for correcting operational issues is to go up the chain with it. Bringing up the topic formally to admins/mods/command/whomever and trying to correct the issue from a top-down perspective is, I think, a better approach to effecting positive change in a community.

[visual trail]

yh those tend to be the people who would just ignore that shit

[quiet flicker]

For example, I've publicly stated I'm not a huge fan of how some of the exams/SOPs are currently written. I think some day I may try to talk to the admin team to submit my own suggestions, but if/when I do that, it will be with specific changes that I think should be made. One reason I haven't done it is because I haven't fleshed out specific changes -- partially due to lack of confidence in making them.

[visual trail]

hot take, the SOPs should actually say how to do your job not just the rules and restrictions to the slot

[quiet flicker]

The kinds of people who just ignore a suggestion without giving you reasons why it wouldn't work are not the kinds of people who should be admin. If that is the leadership for a group, then I think it's time for me to leave that group. IRL, that's not always possible (like the military, or for example my medical school administration). However, in a gaming community, you can just leave and take your "business" elsewhere. Our activity as members of the community is a commodity, because without regular activity, communities die. If a community isn't giving you what you want and need, it's free to go find another one.

I think the admin team here are overall very good and explain themselves, their thought processes, and their limitations well. There are some exceptions to that that I believe boil down to being difficult to explain rather than being intentionally cryptic, but I'm digressing.

[visual trail]

lol thats why i did

leadership was dumb so bye bye

god i feel dumb putting buy instead of bye lol

too many words are the same and different

[quiet flicker]

This is exactly the main gripe I have with it. When you take the test you are often given questions related to the operational function of the job that are not stated in the SOPs. There are several questions across the exams that are either not covered in SOPs, or are only implied and require a lot of inference that isn't fully logical. In other words, until you actually do the job you won't really know the question. Before I get a response that says "just go watch the 4 hour long video on that role that's obscurely buried in a 15,000 word document forum post forehead," my point is that it shouldn't be that hard to find -- AND those videos are very old and I can say with some confidence that things are run pretty differently now than they used to be.

[visual trail]

most of the stuff in the SOPs has nothing to do with the actual job e.g. the SL exam is all about points, vehicles and some restrictions like "how many strikes until you lose the role" the PL exam is basically the exact same

the only ones that have anything about the actual job really is the flight ones and medic ones

but even the medic ones are pretty simple, its just what drug does x

but most of them you dont actually need to know how to do the job to get the role

[regal onyx]

THE VISION

[flint talon]

https://tenor.com/view/vision-what-am-i-doing-here-vision-interview-wandav-gif-20535319

[quiet flicker]

The Vision™ is the main exception I had in mind when I mentioned exceptions.

[visual trail]

now unfortunately, leadership position exams, if you want it to actually have anything to do with the role would require basically an essay and the answer is a lot more ambiguous and more of can you give reasonable reasons for why you would do what you said rather than an actual right/wrong

[quiet flicker]

It is probably the one topic I have seen explained in a way that felt like the real answer was actually "because karma fucking said so and we don't talk about it"

[flint talon]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-side-eye-rolling-window-up-gif-13323690016508828792

[bold harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1258139298310393887/1292479573614919720/attachment.gif

[regal onyx]

a bunch of my friends were in KT before i was, i asked to join and was told no apply when they're recruiting. so...

[honest oyster]

Its not fair to expect kc lib to provide the same experience, but it does provide a unique experience which is alot of fun, casual in nature, but also inherently milim- more-so than any Squad or Refoger public server. Also, theres nothing that says I cant be in another milsim unit and still play kc lib. Hell, I run a milsim unit and i still look forward to my next session on kc.

[quiet flicker]

so that's not invite only that's application.

[regal onyx]

yeah

both are

lol

idk who said it's invite

[quiet flicker]

KOG is publicly stated to be invite-only

[teal grove]

Its not

[bold harness]

there is literally application waves when needed for certain roles ....

[flint talon]

Both KOG/KT, you apply, they check your application, invite you too an interveiw, and selected wether youd fit or not before you get through to the " Selection / training " phase

[visual trail]

never said you cant, just said thats why some people dont play, it doesnt provide the experience they looked for so they went elsewhere, you can obviously still play lib but if you're just looking for milsim then you probably just wont play lib

[teal grove]

Also lib has never had the expectation of being as equal to the units. Its a more relaxed experience

[quiet flicker]

did it used to be invite only and was recently changed?

I distinctly remember invite-only being used a lot when I joined

[honest oyster]

Exactly, which is great- but its still structured and maintained really well

[visual trail]

no

[teal grove]

As far back as i mind its always been application

[visual trail]

its been application for years

[honest oyster]

The funny thing is, a high-pop night on KC Lib demonstrated more organization and better comms than many milsim ops ive been in (I’ve been through a few units)

[bold harness]

people would play lib if there is somethingg new and fun for example fallujah we have never done anything like fallujah before and numbers ppopped cause it was fun . if we do something new and fun then people will play

[flint talon]

it theoretically still is to some extent, but during recruitment waves that get posted you can apply for a chance to join

[visual trail]

yh but fun isnt allowed

[quiet flicker]

you can all GIT FUKT M8

From when I joined, I looked it up.

MED STUDENT MEMORY

I get I may be incorrect, but the source of my information is this very discord's Admin FAQ bot.

[bold harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1375425335004364800/1425821759004737606/image.gif

[quiet flicker]

#1248944616766443582 message

FIGHT ME OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW

quiet in here rn

very quiet

[flint talon]

In recruitment waves which get posted in this discord, you can aplly, but you have to bve invited to start the selection/recruitment phase, its not a garauntee for just applying

[regal onyx]

[quiet flicker]

invite only

[regal onyx]

i've always been told application

[quiet flicker]

British I haven't seen you online in a while, miss you man. we need to do a paradrop

[visual trail]

probably was updated last time the default loadouts were lol

[quiet flicker]

It appears to be application-based in truth, but the point I'm making is the discord adminbot does say invite only, which is where I got my info. That's all lol. FAQ bot needs to be updated

[flint talon]

it is invite only... after you apply

[tacit pasture]

FAQ bot hasn't been updated since I think KOG started back in 2023 lol. Back then it was

[teal grove]

Wo long as yall send feedback and suggestions i can always bring it up when the time comes

[quiet flicker]

holy shit I'm about to get a fucking aneurysm someone give me TPA

[tacit pasture]

or was it 22

[regal onyx]

i doubt KT will do recruitment anytime soon, we're like overflowing with dudes atm

[teal grove]

22 i think

[tacit pasture]

Applications get announced, you apply.

[flint talon]

and then get invited

[tacit pasture]

If its good enough you go to next stage

yes

but its no longer outright getting DMed going hey join KOG like it was

[quiet flicker]

bro is that groudon on your pfp

[teal grove]

Haha

[tacit pasture]

I still remember that day. KOG formed and then I literally never saw like 90% of players that joined on lib ever again lol

[hazy delta]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1342556477516156949/1489712117128106305/togif.gif

[quiet flicker]

that's very sadto hear

[tacit pasture]

No its an elite from halo

[regal onyx]

or first nam

[quiet flicker]

lmao damn I've been bamboozled. The grayscale makes it look really similar to groudon. Sad thing is I've played thousands more hours of halo than pokemon

[hazy delta]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/923757241276977185/1489388451051864155/caption.gif

[visual trail]

first nam was a clusterfuck lol

[regal onyx]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255607709823275130/1490172209724002465/caption.gif

more accurate botan

[tacit pasture]

poor from you man. It's a sketch of Rtas Vadumee

[hazy delta]

True

[tacit pasture]

tut tut

[visual trail]

i remember nearly friendly firing an entire squad because they just walked infront of us during a fight

[hazy delta]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1342556477516156949/1478484806789763092/togif.gif

[regal onyx]

one time i got in a firefight with a friendly squad, they just kept shooting at me

[hazy delta]

thats brazy bro

[visual trail]

yh that happened a lot i think

it was fun tbf

oh and i watched an entire squad get deleted

[quiet flicker]

As for SOPs and the asset/role exams, I think we need to ask the question: "What are these exams' goals?"

I think the biggest goal is:

1. To gate roles behind a time/effort investment for various reasons, including:
   a) the role allows you to utilize (and potentially lose) an asset that costs the company tangible resources.
   b) the role is essential to the function of the company, and a new player doing it with no investment or proof of their ability to perform said role is risky

I can't think of others off the top of my head rn, but I'm sure others exist.

[quiet flicker]

I will say I'm glad I did recognize the name at least

[teal grove]

other than what was mentioned the other day anything else you can think of that you would want to see with lib ?

[visual trail]

1-6 should be changed to a front line unit

[tacit pasture]

you have redeemed yourself

@teal grove can you suggest halo lib pls thank you

[teal grove]

Unfortunately that one isnt a possibility

[quiet flicker]

ok maybe not this lol that's a crazy take -- especially considering nearly every 1-6 is close to the frontline already despite the SOPs saying it shouldn't be. I was very frontline as 1-6 for last night's restart, I probably killed 20 dudes.

[tacit pasture]

guess it doesnt match the vision then eh

I know mooskle got me

[quiet flicker]

The Vision™

[teal grove]

50/50 part of it is keeping it to somewhat realistic stuff

like sci-fi doesnt fit into that bit.

[regal onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/napalm-gif-27203590

[tacit pasture]

it is realistic im a time traveller that shi happened trust me bro

[teal grove]

would be cool though will openly admit that

[hazy delta]

how to fix lib remove 6-6

[regal onyx]

40k lib

[visual trail]

hey, i too often see leadership just sitting on a hill 1km away and basically doing nothing lol

get them in the action and actually leading

[teal grove]

I do this in most scenarios - unless its like hey we have noone at all.

[visual trail]

obviously not like assaulting positions right at the front

but sitting 1km back doesnt really help anyone much lol

[bold harness]

fuh u u stole my joke

[hazy delta]

@brisk gull remove 6-6

[bold harness]

https://tenor.com/view/bro-is-finished-cooked-finished-dog-closing-eyes-dog-with-eyes-closed-gif-8933440936102921947

[teal grove]

yeah but your job isnt to fight at the front - your incharge of everyone you could 100% sit closer but still the point remains - if you are given good information ect you can make decisions without ever needing to be directly beside the infantry.

Why risk getting the head taken off if i can do what i need and sit further back whilst accomplishing the same outcome.

[hazy delta]

./me pings beans @brisk gull admin aboos

[regal onyx]

i am being censored

[teal grove]

L

[quiet flicker]

I was told exams used to be more essay-like in their answers, but that takes an incredibly long time to grade in relation to multiple choice.

I'm okay with exams being multiple choice, but I think the questions need to be well-written. I'm about to graduate med school, and all of our exams are multiple choice because every year thousands and thousands of students take a test that is time-sensitive on grading. You need MC questions for those kinds of logistics.

HOWEVER, the questions are written immaculately. They're very very hard, and your normal highschool-level test taking strategies don't work. The questions are tricky, and sometimes the answer choices go from A through M. However, there is always a clear and definitive best answer that is justifiable through the literature.

A good MC question is one where you can access the information needed to answer it, and it is clearly stated instead of being some weird ball knowledge you'd only get from doing the job or reading the exam taker's mind when they wrote the question.

[sharp charm]

That was actually suggested to be used in the kc_ops and Boone said that was a very good possibility of happening

Not a full Lib but a mission

[tacit pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-reacts-shocked-gif-9885796698302419555

[teal grove]

All the answers are in the SOP's for that role haha

[quiet flicker]

Agreed, 1-6 is commander mode. Think Hell Let Loose without the ability to place garrisons. If you go down, you can't coordinate the platoon and its assets which leads to a breakdown in efficiency. 1-6 should not be frontline.

[tacit pasture]

Storm has give me copium

Thank you

[hazy delta]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

you get

rhs ruzzians

[regal onyx]

Boone is a shenner you could just ask him 😭

[hazy delta]

ong

[teal grove]

bane of everyones existence

[hazy delta]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1342556477516156949/1483671807201513544/togif.gif

[visual trail]

gain a lot more awareness and be more hands on with your leadership, getting people to be more proactive and less sitting there

[tacit pasture]

Idek what Shen is

[regal onyx]

i cast PLA Armored division

[hazy delta]

scawwy

[quiet flicker]

replying to this would require I talk about exams on the server, so I will dm you.

[hazy delta]

obsec bersec secured

[flint talon]

Everything for the exams are in the SOPs tho, Like the 1-8 exam, some answers are in the respective assets SOPs that you'll be controlling. Its been a while since I took an exam for perms but i dont remember ever seeing a question that didnt have an answer in the SOPs

[visual trail]

i say it as to give you more options without getting penalised not as like a, you have to be right up at the front

[tacit pasture]

Current lib exam is more of a reading comprehension exam lol

I liked the old one but it was too much on admins

[regal onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/linux-opsec-install-opsec-sudo-jarvis-gif-13163451492730859106

[teal grove]

Again you can gain this just by getting the information from people via a radio at least for nam. Like whilst its fun there isnt a necessity to be upfront and leading beside everyone. however in modern i do more of what you say, sit closer to them so i can see stuff. Nam vs other eras is different.

[visual trail]

oh yh sorry, i was mainling thinking of modern

[brisk gull]

Can't forget there were external graders (non-admin) that supported in grading exams because they took long and were tedious to grade

[hazy delta]

real

[tacit pasture]

Oh yeah that did happen

[teal grove]

@bold harness forgot to mention i brought up the feedback yall gave the other day.

[regal onyx]

these guys are in a VC together btw

[tacit pasture]

Who

[regal onyx]

you

and hive

[brisk gull]

Never

[regal onyx]

and me

[tacit pasture]

I’m not at my computer bro

[flint talon]

lies

[bold harness]

thank you lee hopefully we do see something gettingg done

[regal onyx]

well your spirit is here

hive is trying to talk to you 💀

[teal grove]

If i remember correctly i think some of it is soon but wont say more until later this month.

[hazy delta]

which one

ab what

[hazy delta]

same

me when shen vc

obsec bersec

[tacit pasture]

Is there a trailer for it coming out @teal grove

Or like a post credits scene

[teal grove]

All of it - the big bullet point stuff that we were on about because we say talking for a hour ect.

[regal onyx]

this Sheppard's pie convo is nice

[hazy delta]

so my feedback

yeye

[teal grove]

let me find the shitpost trailer

[hazy delta]

i got you

all mine

[teal grove]

yeah the ones that yall said and i bullet pointed i brought some of it up

[regal onyx]

bunker is talking about british food now help

[bold harness]

jellied eels

[visual trail]

which food

[quiet flicker]

I don't speak Hindi sry

[tacit pasture]

That’s Scottish

Eels are a delicacy btw

They aren’t bad

[bold harness]

eels is fine but jellied tho

[teal grove]

So is deep fried mars bars 🤣

[regal onyx]

@flint talon showing me beans now

[quiet flicker]

This should not be the case. What are the goals of SOPs? To inform and explain how to operate the role, correct? I was recently told that it's a matter of interpretation. It should not be. If your manual is up to interpretation, you have done a poor job of writing that manual. Manuals are intended to be crystal clear in their instruction. Sorry, not sorry

[visual trail]

goated

[quiet flicker]

I understand that we can't expect the person who wrote the SOPs to have a degree in technical writing, but asking for more clarity in SOPs that were written several years ago is not a big ask imo

[visual trail]

goated food

[regal onyx]

i won't lie a good amount of the SOP's need to be rewritten to be clearer, some are really weirdly worded

[teal grove]

I know a little bit ago there was a bit of updating on some of them not sure how many it went through.

[quiet flicker]

I think this is called for for both the SOPs and their respective exams, which is really all I'm asking for

[sharp charm]

There is work going on behind the curtain in order to get that wording in better shape.

I am part of it so I know its happening

This was also the product of your feedback concerning the wording and the enforcement of the SOP's

[quiet flicker]

Not sure if you mean mine, but I appreciate that it's being worked on all the same. SOPs and the organization they bring is a big part of the soul of what makes KCLib/milsims interesting

[sharp charm]

Everyones overall

[plucky forge]

https://tenor.com/view/only-war-reason-gaming-warhammer-gif-17304554

[quiet flicker]

the lore to 40k is so neat but i doubt i'll ever dive deeply into it beyond 6-hour youtube documentaries to fall asleep to lmao

[teal grove]

thats from 2021

so like 4 and a bit years ago

[quiet flicker]

WELL WELL WELL

Mostly a joke to show there are more than 1 and even 2 sources within the discord that, again, "publicly state" KOG to be invite-only.

Whether it's correct or not is not my fault, it is publicly stated to be invite only.

[magic salmon]

I saw that...

[quiet flicker]

it was the message ID of the screenshot I just posted lol

[zinc aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/it's-time-to-stop-gif-9416155803997449261

[hazy delta]

aaand uhhh whats the vision

[royal elbow]

arma2 marines vs rhs russia with bg’s cranked all the way up

[teal grove]

some stuff was taken on ....

[gray python]

Russians after taking a .50 to the chest and mag dumping you. https://tenor.com/view/black-man-chest-pump-moxieamilo-tartartap-deathstalkerx-gif-7391052749977754629

[bold harness]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-lion-thinking-ragebait-rage-bait-monkey-gif-14090242814517187668

[abstract mason]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1007396964037574656/1175866913654571069/86j9cc.gif

KOG is a cult, I was handed a 240 & made to do a blood sacrifice to it by 1-4

[teal grove]

We aint a cult …. Just ignore the pentagram behind me

[abstract mason]

Idk bout your experiences, but 1-4 is a cult, we do our rituals to protect us from GAF

[teal grove]

We so rituals so we aint follow and assume it works well (lowkey follow and assume is alright)

[granite cape]

@gray anvil he's breaking rule 1

[gray anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/tim-curry-pennywise-the-dancing-gif-7620338

[abstract mason]

Oh fuck, I WANNA LIVE

[plucky forge]

Living? In this economy? Sounds expensive

[royal elbow]

#1124647926199758899 message @odd river next nam is atleast a few months away just remember that

but the AC-130 is a certified server killer we simply cannot use it

[odd river]

Tracking the first part, was not aware that the USAF version was still broken. There is a new AC-130J up that may be worth looking in to for modern, I will say

Would be a very dangerous Reaper Asset if it worked well

[quiet flicker]

#1124647926199758899 message
@desert star I'll bring your discussion here; this is exactly what we're proposing. More dudes, less body armor. Let infantry feel like they're doing something. I'd rather face 30 dudes with normal armor than one squad with armor

[bold harness]

Tested it out really good as a pilot dont know about wso and the rest does require competent crew tho as there is no autopilot don’t know how heavy it is on the server though

[odd river]

Yeah, they still take 37 rounds to impact, it has not been tuned down from the last modern camp I played in Dec

Or maybe it was a few months before that, idr

Shit, some AI would take 10-12 headshots before going down as well

200m+ so I guess I get like one or two rounds, but after that you have a non-serviceable helmet that would be basically useless.

[desert star]

To be clear i have no issue with the way it is now. In fact i have been asking for more units of infantry and armor for a long time. We had them back in the day and at times it was a struggle, we would lose points and fobs to the enemy and it was heartbreaking but when things went good, when the sbf was doing its job we prevailed and it mattered. If making the russians easier to kill infantry wise produces more targets for me and my boys then we are ok with them being on easy mode. it is a very difficult day for the russians everytime Mad Company is in the AO so if we want to make it easier then there has to be more of them.

[quiet flicker]

Yeah absolutely, 1-4 being heavy weapons squad means you guys will likely have a better time dealing with them anyway but we're talking entire magazines of 5.56 to kill one guy. Line squads shouldn't have to deal with that. So I think adding more infantry and reducing their armor is a fair thing to ask for

[desert star]

Could of taken more previously. The adjustment i am referring to was like after the first couple years they turned them down. I haven't tested in a long time.

[quiet flicker]

I've seen a lot of modern campaigns devolve into a bunch of strikers being used because of this. the 30mm cannon or whatever it is on top of the thing just deals with infantry better than line squads' rifles. Thing is, that's not engaging for a server that is "infantry first"

[desert star]

If they just changed the type of rounds you were issued from ball to mk262 or 995 would have an impact.

[quiet flicker]

I'm not picky about how they decide to make the change, I just want infantry to feel like they matter. It doesn't feel that way rn if that makes sense

[desert star]

It is because you have armor, air and arty killing all of your targets. I love to see the combined arms force multiplier doctrine in action but when they are killing my targets i get sad.

[quiet flicker]

well, sort of -- I won't deny that's part of it. But they're also the only things that are effective at kills our targets. I've run late night low pop infantry before and it sucks, we get wiped by guys that get the drop on and they still kill us because we didn't put 29 of our 30 round mags on them.

I'd argue that yes, armor/air/arty is killing our targets, however... if we could kill our own targets they wouldn't be "stealing" so many of them

[desert star]

We shoot our 556's at range up there. You have to remember the sbf might initially start further out but that is because the enemy spawn within this 800 meter bubble. We are opening up a corridar to the objective. Before supporting the assault on it and by that time the sbf is within 600 and everyone is firing. Force multipliers like vehicles we use to move our heavy asses and gear from point to point. I will generally park them unless idf, cap ,cas and armor is active. If they are the flow of the battle changes and becomes alot quicker. And faster setup,breakdowns and movements are needed.

[desert star]

The russians are definitely harder to kill. And it can be bullshit to dump a mag in a guy and then he turn and shoot you. I use 1 mag per dude in full auto when clearing.

[quiet flicker]

no denying that vic's guns do a lot of work though

[regal onyx]

theres the new one on the front page, wonder how it runs

[royal elbow]

interesting

[royal elbow]

anything the experts in the comment section are saying?

[desert star]

Vehicles do put in alot of work. We have guys that field butchers and will get anywhere between 250 to 400 kills in a restart. Additionally your vic is only as useful as its crew. If the right guys are slotted yes

[regal onyx]

looks decent, doesn't have an autoloiter mode so it must be multicrewed https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3686190970

[royal elbow]

ac130 would be sick, 8 people on the server 5 are the ac130 crew, 1 is the 8, 2 are infantry

[crimson wasp]

so nothing new

[odd river]

Yeah, give me the 262s again and I'll shut up, that makes it 10x easier and those will probably completely replace 855A1EPRs IRL at some point.

[bold harness]

Only needs 2 maybe 3

[desert star]

Wouldn't be too hard of a change for kc as well to add/change

[visual trail]

Must be high pop

[edgy raptor]

Until you go after a civi point and have to land the ac130 cause you don’t have enough bodies on the ground to flip the point.

An AC130 on over watch clearing flanks or engaging hard targets would be great to see but the server would struggle

[plucky forge]

Or when the AC130 gets blown up by the civilian-kills script

[edgy raptor]

Shouldn’t be shooting that thing within a half mile of Civilians.

[regal onyx]

Lol

[gray python]

I need to reenact cod and obliterate a town with a church in it.

[odd river]

You know, this brings up an idea - what if we could pay supplies to negate the lost buildings? Kind of like how real world you are expected to pay for the damages. It allows us to go HE hot in a Civilian area at a cost, the 1-6 would have to decide if he is willing to pay that in a particularly shit assault manuever.

[gray python]

I don't think there's a system in place for that like coding wise

I don't know how that would really work

[odd river]

Its one of those things that would take some work on lib code itself, but I have a few ideas on how it could be implemented.

[royal elbow]

most of the people who did the scripting for lib arent really active members of the community anymore

its highly unlikely that they would make a change that requires that amount of work and testing

[odd river]

Part of why I've put in the main suggestions to start sourcing new people to work on things

[hazy delta]

its basically everyone

lowkey

[royal elbow]

this will not happen

multiple members of the community have asked to help, some people have gone out on their own and made fixes for things and cs doesn’t want to implement anything

[hazy delta]

hi im people

[royal elbow]

didn’t someone fix the role arsenal too

[zinc aurora]

@odd river for context, one of the reasons a ~3mb mod got denied was for "mod bloat"

may have been smaller, I don't recall the exact size

[visual trail]

3mb is way too much, instead we should use 3cb factions, another like 15GB

[hazy delta]

The file itself was just a config that's like a couple of kb

3 mb with the key and shi

[plucky forge]

Definitely need to add this 20gb gear mod for a helmet that performs worse but looks slightly cooler than the current one

[visual trail]

Theres about 50 versions of the helmet but you get the option of 2, one of which has texture glitches

[plucky forge]

And doesn't have the NVG mount modelled properly so it clips

[visual trail]

Also the shadow doesn't work properly either and the helmet isn't properly fitted on so hair clips through

HOWEVER

It has working V lights

[plucky forge]

#1124647926199758899 message

Regular army units fly with dual tubes.

[royal elbow]

so does the 160th afaik

[plucky forge]

I think they'll sometimes use quads, but duals are enough to fly with. Just have to develop a good scan to make up for the narrow FOV (which is worse IRL with how Ace handles vision outside the tubes)

[cobalt frigate]

and people wonder why people quit lib

[bold harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1228403149501501563/1493333039932113131/image0.gif

[spare hollow]

Are there any legal concerns or otherwise to forking the code from where it is and providing extended or adapted versions of mods? Is it in the arma scripting language, C or something else?

[royal elbow]

no there's no legal concerns... kc lib is basically a slightly modified version of KP liberation, which was originally just a mission on the steam workshop

KC lib basically just adds
SAM script
role arsenal
the background admin scripts/permission stuff

and takes away
side missions (fob hunt, downed pilot, and one more I forget)
civillians
greenfor

they just dont care

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=878714108&searchtext=liberation

[teal grove]

Mitch you know thats not true right.

[vital trout]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-dog-suspicious-look-suspicious-doubt-dog-doubt-gif-23680990

[sharp charm]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZGIzcTBjaWZ6eHd4MGltMHp3dzVmNmxkOHZtNXBreHNkenVqcTZzdSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3o7TKECHiIMveNsd2w/giphy.gif

[bold harness]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1228403149501501563/1493333039932113131/image0.gif

Oreooo

I havent seen that name in ages

[vital trout]

https://tenor.com/view/name-haventheard-longtime-obiwan-starwars-gif-5383309

[bold harness]

https://tenor.com/view/salute-yes-sir-soldier-respect-gif-15342227

[vital trout]

https://tenor.com/view/gato-gif-9087691779121664211

[zinc aurora]

im not saying that statement is true, but actions (or lack thereof) speak a lot louder than words

[teal grove]

Whilst i can understand the views that people have I know its not the case.

[hazy delta]

something something state of the server

[plucky forge]

People have that view because we almost never see things actually happen. People have been going on about the CAS SOPs being regularly ignored for months, yet nothing visible has been done about it.

[tacit pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

[hazy delta]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

[rocky glen]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

[teal grove]

The thing with this is that its been taken on yes you are less likely to see some things than others but thats because certain aspects aren’t publicly disclosed. Furthering this if stuff happens make people aware so they can address it (ie id your ingame and an admin is on ping them, alternatively you could use the report system that exists in discord for that exact reason).

I get people think that but there are also changes that you all want that have been openly discussed and have had an answer given in regards to them, this includes changing from the us to another faction ect.

The majority of guys that do complain are never on lib meaning if there were changes they would be unlikely to see them. Even then there is a large spread of misinformation from people stating that those who are responsible for the server dont care about things which isnt the case.

You can always suggest things and the team reads them, yes you may not get an answer but sometimes you will, i know it sucks as there are some good suggestions, however if you bring it to someone it almost always gets brought up the line of guys.

[hazy delta]

Ok I can't not say it, I so disagree with your 3rd statement. Of course the people who complain about lib don't play it... And to say when changes are done they dont hop on is just wrong. Exhibit one being fallujah, exhibit 2 being ww2... etc. People come back when its something new and exciting or when some of the councerns get fixed/addressed.

[tacit pasture]

Yeah Fallujah's constant player base was the highest I've seen since 2022 Australia

[hazy delta]

No comment on the misinformation part.

Also something something if you dont like it dont play it, ive heard that many times

[teal grove]

I will say both of those campaigns were like over 6 months to a year between which usually is a few maps ect. So sometimes you wouldnt be able to know.

[hazy delta]

People lurk

im people

[tacit pasture]

Also coming to a year the changelog hasn't been used

its been 9 months

so of course people dont know

[teal grove]

Thats a good point ^

[hazy delta]

Also ima be so real

Me and especially tony have been around lib for ages and lets say you can tell when we're playing the same maps, factions.. basically missions. with the same issues from years ago

[teal grove]

Lowkey i think we hit the limit almost on what maps we can do.

Which sucks

As there are some good maps that are smaller than 20x20

[hazy delta]

damnit youre missing my point

[teal grove]

Nah i get the point

Your refrencing the recycling of stuff and 1 for 1 copy of stuff.

[hazy delta]

maybee

[tardy kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

[tacit pasture]

over the years ive actively played, then transitioned to lurking around, there are a lot of small changes that have contributed to the wider picture of the dilemma in front of everyone now. No one is doing it to be entitled, but a lot of people love this gamemode and all the contributions CS and Admins have made over the years and it feels like its kinda slipping through our fingertips when it doesn't have to, hence the frustration

[teal grove]

I get your point in that regard, it gets repetitive and isnt fresh

[tacit pasture]

Like the proc system, that shit is golden

old lib procs were horrendous

[teal grove]

Sorry tony only just seen that, honestly i get it. If you guys want stuff ect like i said a while ago i dont mind bringing stuff up.

[tacit pasture]

our gameplay loop was literally send someone out to hit the 800m mark like a piece of bait to spawn everything in and run back

[teal grove]

That never changed 😭

[tacit pasture]

no dude trust me

it is nowhere near the same

there were no patrols

nothing

[hazy delta]

type shit

[teal grove]

Nah i mean the strategy of procing it and baiting it

Like thats half of lib, obviously the patrols do there thing but usually move toward gunfights. Same with most of the stuff except ei that is in buildings.

[tacit pasture]

well lib now you have light proc and proc proc

where roving patrols will likely catch you

ill give you one example in vivid memory

it was first australia, 600-800m out from OBJ proc line which was a tiny radius. So we were about that far away. Trenches built on the hill everywhere, nothing harrassing us because we didnt proc. Direct eyes on target. Send a runner out to proc. Every single 240 and AT was primed looking at OBJ. Everything died within a minute

[hazy delta]

i feel like we're deviating a bit chat

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1198622280700416090/1492953736497336440/togif.gif

[tacit pasture]

My overall point is its changes away from that awful loop that kept people hooked in

as it was shown things were actively being improved

weekly patch notes in changelog

now it doesnt even get used

[teal grove]

The biggest thing from feedback recently has been cas stuff, maybe a different era and a lot of complaints regarding Russian body armour. (This isnt the actual notes i have there on my pc)

[tacit pasture]

and stricter SOP enforcement i believe was in that discussion

[hazy delta]

yeah

and

making lib more fun

overall

[tacit pasture]

i know doing the admin for it sucks, i used to do it but it does make the space healthier

[cobalt frigate]

fun is not allowed

[tacit pasture]

doing it on one monitor sucked

[hazy delta]

L one monitor

[tacit pasture]

L wifi

[hazy delta]

i have 3 get me on the team (joke)

[teal grove]

That links into my point regarding the air stuff (its in that section of clustered notes)

[teal grove]

I think my house would set in fire trying to run 3 ☠️

[crimson briar]

try 3 and a tv hooked above all 3 lol

[hazy delta]

i have that actually

not above

[rocky glen]

yeah but are you bellum's second super ultrawide player

[hazy delta]

to my left

[tacit pasture]

Please dont focus on just air though

[hazy delta]

ahem ahem

butcher

ahem

attaching to squads

ahem

[teal grove]

Oh i know my notes are over the place

[hazy delta]

instead of sitting 2km from the AO

[teal grove]

Tank is understandable

[hazy delta]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1198622280700416090/1492943726589251766/caption.gif

[teal grove]

The bradley leas so

That is a word i think 😅

[tacit pasture]

both is not understandable lol

[hazy delta]

yeah

[tacit pasture]

Butcher players have no risk of death on a hill 2 clicks away

[hazy delta]

i will argue till i die

[rocky glen]

I need to change that to second

[tacit pasture]

Air have sam sites to harass them in a high altitude orbit

Butcher dont have that as an equivalent

so it ends up being KOGFOR with a metis who aren't always on

[hazy delta]

Yeah

and they dont play at all during modern so

[rocky glen]

the metis 💀

[hazy delta]

or just remove the fuckass metis

something sometthing hunting assets

[tacit pasture]

We are cavalry, not using british doctrine staying in the backlines

give us a challenger and Ill say fair is fair for that SOP lol

its fun for no one when a bradely or abrams has eyes on everything from a hill 2 clicks out uncontested and wipes everything

[hazy delta]

yeah

[tacit pasture]

boring for butcher, boring for ground

[teal grove]

The tank is more understandable, especially in certain regards, you have a fuck off gun that will overpressure the entire squad, the he sucks (idk if you remember the clip). The tank is big and not suited for close range in any regard, by comparison the bradley or lav or acv-30 are all suites for direct infantry support, all have auto cannons ect which excel in closer engagements.

The tank doesnt i think 2k like you said js a bit much for sitting back but maybe not directly beside the squads.

[hazy delta]

honestly for anyone

yep

[tacit pasture]

i stopped playing because 1-6 demanded i go and stay on hills

and that just isnt for me

[hazy delta]

Again

for lib

the opfor tanks

will not engage you at range

because AI sucks

[tacit pasture]

if DCO vics was around and working it would be fine

[teal grove]

I miss the 10 tank bgs

[tacit pasture]

they used to do that

[hazy delta]

Yeah

[teal grove]

That would fuck butcher

[hazy delta]

So even for an abrams

also an Abrams doesnt have HE

only MPAT

99% of the time you'll use coax

anyways

[tacit pasture]

yeah but people sit on the hills with the brad...

[hazy delta]

which isnt effective at range

so

[rocky glen]

its literally like fish in a barrell

[hazy delta]

yeah

not fun

[teal grove]

Thats dumb i wont lie…. The bradley fun af in close quarters

[hazy delta]

plus wapp cqc in an abrams is cag

Anyways I wanna see if anything changes

[rocky glen]

the ACV is literally straight up broken id scratch that off your list

💀

[hazy delta]

Back to lurking i go

[umbral raft]

WW2 😢 the only campaign i was hyped for but was done bad. Broken mods and broken AI with GLs

[tacit pasture]

Close range with Abrams is where you kindly ask friendlies to push in ahead of you and if they need help you break your cordon and go help them cuz they dont have AT

or use coax

[teal grove]

Reallllll, that thing costs the same as the abrams i think in lib

[tacit pasture]

the abrams hasnt got a TUSK kit for no reason lol

[rocky glen]

simply just cannon mog them and overpressure a whole squad by firing it in a street

[cobalt frigate]

I guess it was easier to end the campaign early than to remove GLs from EI

Way too much work

[tacit pasture]

An abrams on a hill invalidates savage a lot lol, the HE isnt that bad

[hazy delta]

I really odnt wanna talk about the ww2 campaign...

[teal grove]

I agree i just think that depending on the asset depends on how close you are ect, the tank you can get away with sitting behind them by maybe 400-600m depending on certain factors.

[tacit pasture]

look how we use tanks on nam

[teal grove]

Ram it through the trees and pray

[tacit pasture]

we could go long range, i have the experience for that. but the terrain pushes us in

and in tandem with inf theres usually no problem

[hazy delta]

Weve run the abrams in super close quarters its doable

with inf support

[tacit pasture]

my crew make an effort to shout overpressure warnings

[hazy delta]

you just ogtta have SA

[umbral raft]

Removing the GLs and downgrading the tanks to not being king tigers would of been a good start 🙁

[hazy delta]

like

look at the KC OP

@tacit pasture

[tacit pasture]

and to be front most element cuz we are armoured

[hazy delta]

we did cag shit

in that t72

[tacit pasture]

yeah, squads went one way we went another and held it

[hazy delta]

textbook

didnt even die once

[tacit pasture]

theres always something for the abrams to do, they dont always have to kill things

[hazy delta]

at most got tracked

[teal grove]

There are certain times where both are options, i do think the 2km wct is stupid as mentioned.

[hazy delta]

something something force multiplier

[cobalt frigate]

WW2 player count was easily fixable by removing gls, reducing amount of king tigers and putting that in #🔗kc_changelog

[tacit pasture]

i think it just promotes bad and unhealthy gameplay being that far out

[hazy delta]

changelog is not real

[crimson briar]

ahh fallujah with me,you and spartan lmao

[tacit pasture]

yeah lol

good times

[cobalt frigate]

change log is not real because nothing was being changed

[hazy delta]

ahh fallujah, good times

[tacit pasture]

I'd love to be a chud sitting in a vic on lib all the time helping out the homies but I always get fucked over lol

go sit out here

dont argue

hey can we push u-
NO, NO YOU CANT

[teal grove]

Yeah i agree sitting slightly further back than infantry in the tank is reasonable, obviously if you need to push go for it, the bradley wct tho i kinda feel you gotta fight directly alongside others.
Tank feels like your there for support on heavy targets ect.

[hazy delta]

demo set

[tacit pasture]

THAT VEHICLE IS VERY VALUABLE and its like 300 300 300

[teal grove]

All that reminds me off was the one map we bought like 20 helicopters and they lasted maybe a hour each

That was like a year ago +

[rocky glen]

and we're on like 10k everything

and we're not GAFing every point

[hazy delta]

yeahhhh

10k but we cant build only at ops

thats on an island

ahem

[tacit pasture]

i would love to do more butcher trainings and get people loving it as much as i do but lowkey im just not feeling it, i fight command and SLs more than the enemies usually lol

[umbral raft]

In modern at this point butcher gets most of it's vics battalion

[tacit pasture]

yeah but when we buy some its a bit different

like buying a LAV

for certain purposes

[teal grove]

The lav is cool

Also everyone hates the linebacker but i honestly think its fun af, (although red air doesn’t spawn often)

[tacit pasture]

doing pushes with abrams where a squad is stacked behind you when they need cover to get to side alleys is awesome

[tacit pasture]

does he know chat

[cobalt frigate]

Ahh, the great Harpy fix

[teal grove]

The linebacker is fine and definitely isnt just a death trap …..

[tacit pasture]

its not that

the linebacker was my fave

i called it the chadbacker

[hazy delta]

fuck

the

linebacker

i hate

the linebacker

fuck that shit

[tacit pasture]

but stingers dont work for a lot people cuz of ping

[hazy delta]

yes

ping and lag / fps drop

[teal grove]

Stinger moment gif where

[tacit pasture]

the chadbacker CARRIED Able and I through australia

that shit was the greatest

[cobalt frigate]

Wdym Beans could do 50 shots and hit all 50, Harpy is fine

[tacit pasture]

the humble european with wifi:

(me)

[hazy delta]

eww wifi

and 1 monitor

and headset mic

:3

[tacit pasture]

yeah and i rock that shit

[hazy delta]

stingers mentioned, cortisol spike

[umbral raft]

we don't need harpy just shoot at it and blow up

[teal grove]

The last time someone did this my entire squad was blown up ….

[umbral raft]

I'm dippin when i start seeing people shoot the helis

[tacit pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/bro-is-finished-cooked-finished-dog-closing-eyes-dog-with-eyes-closed-gif-8933440936102921947

[rocky glen]

shooting red air down is peak butcher

bonus points with the abrams

[hazy delta]

my name's jake i cant aim for shit

[rocky glen]

im being slandered

[hazy delta]

yeah you are

[rocky glen]

https://tenor.com/view/spunchbop-spongebob-meme-spongebob-plankton-meme-plankton-gif-3201429532851062522

[tacit pasture]

okay guys who is down for butcher training!!!

https://tenor.com/view/flightreacts-flight-flight-reacts-flight-happy-flightreacts-happy-gif-13912391414452298728

[hazy delta]

3no

not again

[sharp charm]

That has been an ongoing thing just in the last 4 months

[tacit pasture]

discussing it or actually doing it

[sharp charm]

Enforcement

and people dont like to know or be told they are doing something wrong.

[tacit pasture]

yeah im well aware i dealt with my fair share

people hated me lowkey

[hazy delta]

still do

[cloud oracle]

still do

[tacit pasture]

i knew someone would say that

[cloud oracle]

💀

[tacit pasture]

we got some comedians in KC

https://tenor.com/view/nemesis-resident-evil-re3-stare-meme-gif-10300602320119614849

[sharp charm]

Well that comes back to SOP's not being enforced.

[tacit pasture]

no like when i struck people i mean

to the point a whole thing started of british admins having a stick up their ass lol

that wasnt very nice guys

[sharp charm]

I have taken on the task of beign more aware of the SOP's and how people areplaying them. This because in the feedback section it was mentioned that the SOP's are sometimes cloudy and not worded right. So Ihave begun the long and somewhat slow process of going through the SOP's to bring them all up to speed. When I get to the point I can sort out wording then I get with Beans who has been rewriting them.

[umbral raft]

stricter SOPs in what way? because limiting roles would be anti-fun with the already constant low pop count

[hazy delta]

you dont need stricter SOPs you need to enforce what we got now

me thinks

[sharp charm]

I say this is a slow process because I have to watch the specificSOP that I am focused on and watch people play it. This way I can see if the wording is making them play that way or something else.

[hazy delta]

Also im mostly talking about modern, vietnam always gave room for more leeway due to the nature of the era

[tacit pasture]

Then I appreciate the transparency, its a relief to hear this

[rocky glen]

its ok i dont hate you

[hazy delta]

I hate british people so

(joke)

[sharp charm]

Now that we areback to modern Ihave to switch over to that myself. During the Nam maps I was able to get goblin done. I was working on phantom and viper but will have to wait for that till next Nam maps now.

However since we do more modern, I feel I can get through those a lot quicker

[tacit pasture]

But I do believe that relaxed enforcement of SOPs does drive people away. But that is just a theory i obviously cant correlate that at all

[umbral raft]

Should of used the modern wording for vietnam goblin

[hazy delta]

well people get driven away when the experience sucks

[umbral raft]

Since it's still worded weirdly

[hazy delta]

and relaxed enforcement of SOPs drives towards that

so there is corelation imo

[tacit pasture]

yeah but i mean like a research study lol

[hazy delta]

💀

i guess

[tacit pasture]

scientfic gizmos to measure

p graphs

standard deviation

buzzword buzzword

[rocky glen]

buzzword jumpscare

[hazy delta]

buzzword

[sharp charm]

One thing I would like to add.....Since I have been an admin I have not seen any admin here who just accuses people of doing stuff just to be an ass. No one is approached or talked to without there being a cause. So if approached we saw something that needs to be discussed.

[hazy delta]

random kid

[sharp charm]

Also.....The CS team and the admin team very much care about this server and our community. As Lee said earlier not everything is replied to. When we deal with SOP violations, that is between the admins and the offender and will never be broadcast to the community like news.

[teal grove]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-news-gif-12979290

[tacit pasture]

Yeah but what you can see is repeat offenders that do it like a lot of times, thats the whole thing with vietnam air discussion

[sharp charm]

Changelog.....That is something we can push to start showing progress or changes as it should. That will fall on CS team to either let admins know what to put out or put out themselves. It will be brought to their atention though.

[hazy delta]

https://tenor.com/view/hatsune-miku-project-sekai-empty-miku-nightcord-n25-gif-18144515840753142505

[royal elbow]

There’s no doubt that the admins care, the issue is that you guys aren’t the ones that are actually able to implement any of the changes that people want to have made

what people are trying to say is that the CS don’t care

[tacit pasture]

yeah cuz we have technically gone 9 months with zero changes

since things get drowned out

if it is mentioned in other channels

[hazy delta]

i dont count changing campaigns/maps/eras by using older missions as changes so yeah

[tacit pasture]

yeah i was being generous tbh

[sharp charm]

CS does care and your posts saying they dont is just smearing them when all you are doing is speculating.

[sharp charm]

same

[tacit pasture]

so its been around 2 years or more