📚lore-discussion

[river surge]

The last time someone touched that "portal" it became our enemy so

Still wondering why The Veil reacted with increasing its roots during the battle with Calus

[slim girder]

Maybe it was just reacting to the threat near it or something.
I do wonder why the witness wanted calus to destroy the veil but then when that failed it was able to use our ghost to get what it needed and leave the veil intact

Seems destroying the veil was unnecessary when all it needed was the link to it

[river surge]

Its literally explained why

if Calus used the radial mist he couldve destroyed the veil so our Guardian had no way to reach inside The Traveler

its an order of events

make the link, go inside then destroy the Veil so no way inside anymore

[sick yew]

Why would they want to destroy the veil?

They needed it

[river surge]

yeah but only for the link

[low gyro]

Wait if the veil is destroyed how would the witness even go inside the traveler to enact the final shape

[slim girder]

That's why I'm wondering. Why did the witness say to calus to "link that radial mast and see the veil destroyed"

[low gyro]

Didn't sav hide the radial mast in Neptune in the first place to prevent that

[slim girder]

Yes

[river surge]

Thats how I view it

Make the link, The Witness goes inside the Traveler, then destroy the veil so that way no one can enter the Traveler anymore

Thats why the portal is still active, cuz the Veil still has the link to the Traveler, if the Veil is not there anymore the portal would be gone

[slim girder]

Yeah but it wouldn't even matter because even though the veil was still intact we needed the magic of a wish dragon to enter.
Osiris studied it for ages and couldn't find any way to use it to get us through.

[slim girder]

The portal is still active because it's more like a wound. The witness cut open a hole in the traveler using the veil and this is even described as a wound by crow bleeding light and dark into open space

The portal isn't like a door.

It's literally the witness digging its way in by force.

[river surge]

Well, about that wish dragon, theres a theory suggesting that The Witness may have instructed the scorn and the taken to take Riven eggs

Now idk

if its true or not, but the whole point of this Veil and The Witness reaching inside The Traveler is still a mystery since we have no idea how The Veil literally functions in contact with The Traveler

[slim girder]

It's definitely possible. The witness wanted to keep us far away from what it was doing so any distracting would buy it time. Season of defiance with capturing civilians so we'd have to go save them, season of the deep with xivu trying to hunt down ahsa would had information on where the witness came from and what it's intentions were, season of the witch we needed to bring back savathun and she would then lead us to the 15th wish and an untaken ahamkara egg.

[low gyro]

I wonder when that decision will bite us in the ass

[slim girder]

Then season of the wish. Where we struck a bargain to save rivens remaining eggs in exchange for a path to the witness

[river surge]

Yeah

[slim girder]

Still haven't seen anything on rivens clutch of eggs yet.
Call it wishful thinking but if taranis could be a good ahamkara I think the offspring could also do that

[little gorge]

it's funny how savathun just gave us an egg and then we proceeded to not use that

[river surge]

Still wierd that it took The Witness so long to inact The Final Shape despite it having planned for Eons

and in the end it failed

[dim minnow]

The point of the egg was to be a hint

[slim girder]

Traveler resisted. Even the witness gets progressively mad at it for resisting..

[little gorge]

surely there were easier ways to tell us "use an ahamkara" than giving up an egg

[dim minnow]

Besides, that mf was not gonna hatch in time to be useful

[little gorge]

unless she just wanted to flex casually having one

[dim minnow]

It's Savathun, what do you expect?

[river surge]

Yeah but at some point, it is clearly indicated that The Witness couldve inacted it and still gave us so many chances and yet we still denied and he still tried

[slim girder]

There's always something to it. No gift is freely given from her

[dim minnow]

She had the wish tattooed on her wing as well

[river surge]

Also

A good question

How the heck did Savathun bring The Veil all the way to Neptune

[little gorge]

actually when did she get the time to do that

[dim minnow]

She was planning this for a long time

[slim girder]

Portals prolly. Hive use them to transport stuff all the time

[little gorge]

presumably the same way she brought the traveller to her throne world

[river surge]

Imagine The Witness reaction when he realized Nezarec is dead and the Veil is lost

And Savathun just indirectly saved Earth

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/thewitness-witness-thefinalshape-finalshape-destiny-gif-14877471879384778164

[wispy hull]

ngl Savathun showing up genuninly had me hyped.

I love the hive. They are just so cool

[sick yew]

We all got our favorites

[wispy hull]

Except the Cabal

No one likes the cabal

[sick yew]

I do
At least their environments

[wispy hull]

Their enviros are cool

The cabal themselves tho

[sick yew]

Hive are my personal least favorite faction

[wispy hull]

kinda meh especially you know the whole siding with the aspect of ending the universe thing the cabal are just evil

[sick yew]

I mean not really
Some Cabal still stand against us bot the majority are on our side now

With Caiatl

[wispy hull]

I forgot about Caiatl

Caitatl can come.

[river surge]

Phalanx should just idk, just uhh I cant say it cause it might sound bad, but just just

[sick yew]

[river surge]

Phalanx are the main reason why I hate cabal

Outside that annoying shield that sending u flying, they have nothing

[sick yew]

This is less about them ingame more about the faction overall

[river surge]

Faction overall its good, but again so many divisions are just pure hell

[wispy hull]

Do what the 9th doctor told the lone darlek to do?

[river surge]

[wispy hull]

Phalanx should shove their shield where the sun dont shine

Taken ones especially

[river surge]

By the way, what do u guys think about the new saga villain, I really wonder if the next villain will have unique traits like The Witness, I really loved and enjoyed The Witness, but I really wonder what will Bungie deliver next regarding the new saga

[wispy hull]

I think

If it can bleed

It can die

[river surge]

If its made out of dark matter then what

[wispy hull]

The bar can move

It will die

I didn't watch ghost my guardians best freind get hurt to dip out when the going get tough

[slow berry]

this is literally iconoclasm

[wispy hull]

That is legit what I thought after that mission

Also its blood is gold the same colour as the Olympic gods. Which is fitting given the witness thinks itself a god

[little gorge]

what character doesn't have "unique traits"

[ember storm]

THE MIMIC

[empty fern]

THE EDWIN

[wispy hull]

No

No mimics please

I dont want to worry about opening chests

[slim girder]

Speaking of mimics. I'd be fine if we got another enemy that had the same vibes as the scorn trickster baron.

Booby trapping chests, explosive engrams, death pits covered by camouflage, etc. I want to see 1 enemy do what grasp of avarice does with its traps

[ember storm]

Unless it’s literally a designed encounter that’s literally just what “left you a present” and the mines bane do

[floral verge]

Is there much lore and information on the traveler?

[slim girder]

A pretty good amount. We know why it was being hunted, we know it speaks in visions and has thoughts of its own.

[floral verge]

Alr

Isn’t the traveler the brother of the witness?

[slim girder]

No

[floral verge]

Oh Alr

[slim girder]

The witness is civilisation combined into one being with the sole purpose of hunting the traveler to bring about the final shape

[floral verge]

Ah Alr

Thanks for explaining that to me lol

I’m not to caught up on the lore and stuff so

[slim girder]

Np.
There's lots of lore in the game and some videos on YT if you really want to fully dive into it.

[floral verge]

Alr thank you

[cold onyx]

Why mythrax is evil now

[empty fern]

Nezzy juice

[cold onyx]

And eramis is a friend now

[dim minnow]

he's suffering fromevil Dementia

[cold onyx]

When did eramis join our side

[dim minnow]

either she came in quietly and we help her house, or she gets knocked off

[dim minnow]

it was for the story of Episode: Revenant

[cold onyx]

Ah

Ik

I just played the story

[dim minnow]

she had to help us defeat Fikrul

[cold onyx]

Isn’t the final mission 2 players

[frigid sparrow]

yes and no. the final mission of the main story is just the exotic mission, which can be solo'd. however, the "epilogue" esque mission where we fight skolas was released a bit later and does require a fireteam to even get in

[empty fern]

Skolas revenge 2 :3

[ancient carbon]

I'm starting to write a DnDestiny campaign and I dunno where to fit it in lore wise. I'm trying to make it as easy to come into as possible for any non destiny players and the main question I'm coming up against is whether I should set it pre or post witness.
The actual main portion of the campaign doesn't really matter but I wanna have it somewhat set in a point of time I can go back and reference.
I'm thinking if it's pre witness then I can basically ignore all the black fleet stuff and not talk about the main story but if I wanna do the most updated version of DnDestiny with prismatic and stuff I gotta do after final shape stuff.
I guess my question is: When would be the easiest point in time to set a destiny story so that I don't have to fill someone in on 10 years of lore but not feel that I'm not showing them the bigger picture going on?
(sorry if this is the wrong channel btw, idk where else to ask about this)

[sick yew]

if you want the easy route you could set it inbetween D1 and D2

Tho that would make you miss out on a lot of characters that were introduced later

Mithrax, Eidu, Caiatl, Saint-14 and so on

[trim grotto]

The Dark Ages or early City Age are a pretty easy route if Darkness subclasses isn't a problem for you. There's a lot of freedom there.
If you do want those... well, post-Witness is a time of unexpected potential. Darkness usage is being normalised, the universal threat of the Witness is over. The Vanguard is allocating resources purely to exploration. In fact...

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-xurfboard

Imagine this as a premise

[sick yew]

Post Witness is another pretty good spot since there just isnt much that we know is gonna happen

We're in a transitional period rn

[ancient carbon]

My plan was to do something on nessus with Failsafe and the Vex since from when I started playing (beyond light), it was pretty underutilised until echoes

[sick yew]

Well post witness Nesuss is a bit more special because of the whole deal with Episode 1

But if you do it right you could just kinda ignore that or have it be a background thing

[ancient carbon]

I think it would be pretty hard to ignore that since it was such a transformative thing in Episode 1. So I'd need to explain Maya's lil tantrum and then how that happened, and then probably the witness

at least I'd feel I'd need to explain it all

[trim grotto]

Nessus could have you run into... Quantis Rhee. An existing character, one of Cayde-6's Nessus scouts, a Nightstalker. Little expanded on though, and she could be fun to use.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/orpheus-rig
This works from any time period after the Red War.

[sick yew]

Its not like you have to make it 100% lore accurate either
Have your campaign set inbetween Witness death and Episode 1 events

Sure the Echo technically crashed right after but who cares

[sick yew]

Is she the one Cayde referred to in his death messages?

I remember him talking about a Nessus scout

[trim grotto]

Yes, actually.

[sick yew]

Heh neat

Idk why I even remember that

[ancient carbon]

I suppose so. It's a tough decision wanting to make it very much standalone and set apart while also wanting it to somehow link in with the events of the time or have a place in it.

[sick yew]

Something something check in on her every 2 weeks so she dont get lonely or whatever

[trim grotto]

It depends on how accurate you want it. If it features Prismatic, you either address that only those who have ventured into the Pale Heart can use it... or, you don't, and skip over that part.
Because with the concept we see on the Xurfboard link above, the Vanguard is sending people out to explore the rest of the system. Nessus is a known location, but there are many other potential places. Venus, the rest of Earth, Mars and the time rifts it now suffers, Titan and its Arcologies - there's more than just New Pacific - and more.

[ancient carbon]

If only we'd actually killed Maya then I could have an easier place to start from. But we kinda don't know what's happening there last time I looked.
I've got a few ideas floating around now that I'll try and get down, maybe I'll just write the core of the campaign and worry about the flavour afterwards.
Thanks for the assistance.

[little gorge]

witness died on friday and the echo reached nessus on tuesday 🤓

[sick yew]

No Echo activity on weekends duh

[little gorge]

traveller was taking a break from conjuring memory based artifacts

deserved considering it was getting aggressively renovated for a year

[sick yew]

fr

Damn youre right I kinda forgot just how long the Witness was hanging out in the pale heart before we went after em

[slim girder]

Made itself right at home and then immediately started digging into the bones. In a pretty sadistic manner if matiodoxia is any indication along with the constant cries and scream we heard from the traveler at different points.

[hard sigil]

I'm surprised it didn't do more damage than it has after a year

[sick yew]

Its hard to tell but we know the Traveler was resisting a lot

[slim girder]

The damage done was still massive. Turning itself into a monolith, cutting up the landscape, "reshaping" everything which we saw as we got closer to the monolith.

[sick yew]

Maybe it really took quite a while for the Witness to "crack" its shell so to say

[sick yew]

Isnt the Monolith just the reshaped pyramids that entered with the Witness together?

[slim girder]

No it IS the witness. You can see it as you climb it.

Salvations edge was us basically cutting the head off a snake that wrapped itself around the travelers light.

It's got those pyramids mixed with it yes but the witness itself has also reshaped into this new form which we then saw in salvations edge as we climbed up.

[sick yew]

That afaik mostly stems from concept art I personally dont believe the Witness to be the entire structure but part of it for sure

[slim girder]

Yeah I wouldn't say the entire structure but definitely a big part of it. Like at the bottom you can see things like veiled statues which look like they act as a foundation for it. Probably the biggest supporters of the final shape or something.
The same architecture you see on the witnesses snake body is the same as the stuff you see when you first start climbing.

It's made this huge structure out of itself and that's also where it's dug into the traveler to try and take its light.

[slow berry]

I think the arteries section of the raid strongly implies we're up in its guts personally

also the model for the whole thing

[slim girder]

That middle tree like structure is most likely the part of the traveler where the light was being cut and siphoned. Just based on the matiodoxia lore tab. Considering you see it right after Verity as well which reveals itself it be completely corrupted by the witness once you complete the encounter.

[empty fern]

Big worm

https://tenor.com/view/worms-hive-hove-worms-hove-gods-worm-gods-gif-9077058741576017149

[pallid thunder]

Nope
The ghosts of the deep dungeon already scared me too much

I skip all water

I did not sign up to box jorgumandrs children on some water world hell nah.
Couldn’t pay me to load up that raid

[jagged badge]

There is no raid where you fight Worm Gods

Let alone in water

[blazing wasp]

you cannot fight in the water in D2 whatsoever

[ancient carbon]

I think I’m gonna go post episode echoes for this DnDestiny campaign. I think that having the most updated rulebook with prismatic will be a benefit and I can explain some of the abnormalities in the vex I’m planning just by saying “weird paracausal maya sundaresh nonsense” but in a nicer way

Also I know a lot more of the lore around this era than the d1/d2 intermission

[weary hearth]

how did savathun come back after we defeated her? was it because of the traveler bringing her back

[blazing wasp]

you mean when we killed her in witch queen? she has a ghost

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/savathun-destiny2-dies-of-cringe-savathun-dies-hive-gif-25028573

https://tenor.com/view/savathun-the-witch-queen-destiny2-dont-say-i-didnt-warn-you-gif-25297306

https://tenor.com/view/savathun-destiny-2-season-of-the-witch-dies-of-cringe-hive-gif-13308682944884160959

a few times

[empty fern]

One of these is not like the other

[alpine haven]

vow has a big one

[jagged badge]

Does that change what I said at all?

[blazing wasp]

Akka is a pretty big worm

[mild junco]

I just realized, people talk about how Oryx would kill himself instantly if he was resurrected via the light, but would he not have any idea or maybe even not want to follow his old ideals anymore because he loses his memory?

[cloud glacier]

would it have made sense lore-wise for the Witness to take the EDZ without taking the rest of Earth?

[tender jacinth]

I think the hive guardians would probably teach him about his previous ideology and hope he doesn't automatically kill his ghost for being heretical in his previous view

[blazing wasp]

Oryx revived by a ghost wouldn't really be oryx anymore

[cloud glacier]

how do you think Savathun feels about us taking Oryx

[blazing wasp]

Just like how crow isn't uldren

Same skin, different snake

[cloud glacier]

still a poisonous little viper nonetheless

[mild junco]

But we see how in Crow that their ideology dies out basically completely, doesn't it? Like they could be through the same process, even be made aware of what they once believed and just deny it because of the circumstances. If Oryx was brought back via a ghost would the traveler not also have like, an influence of "good" on him because of the light?

[blazing wasp]

Their ideology dies because they lose their memories

[tender jacinth]

Yeah maybe but then the witness could have just taken the parts of mars (bray facilities) without taking the rest but it might assume there's other locations that might be useful so taking the entire planet would be better than taking part of it

[blazing wasp]

Are you familiar with the psychological thingamabobs surrounding nature vs nurture

A guardian has their "nurture" part completely reset

[mild junco]

We see in the memory of Oryx even that Oryx clearly has a bit of doubt in his own ideology, as his goal isn't immediately to just reverse the process. Instead, he tries to move forward

[mild junco]

At least, thats my understanding

[cloud glacier]

do you think Ikora having Savathun’s voice is canon to the lore

[blazing wasp]

Because oryx had his entire ideology systematically dismantled in front of him by his own sister

Savathun effectively pulled a "debate me on it" and won immediately

[mild junco]

Would it even be like, the same person?

Not like mentally

[cloud glacier]

and also Savathun took Ikora

[mild junco]

Like Oryx is a worm bearer right?

[blazing wasp]

"took"?

[mild junco]

If he were to be revived, would he still have a throne world, would he still have his worm, would he be as large?

[cloud glacier]

Ikora has Savathun’s VA

[blazing wasp]

Yes

Well, worm? Idk

But throne world yes

We know this because of savathun

She died, got revived, kept her throne

Her worm was given an eviction notice beforehand though

[mild junco]

Which, by the way, does Savathun being a Gaurdian not automatically mean that she like devolves to an extent?

Hive have their brood, and they have their like, physical form which is i believe shifted by power

[blazing wasp]

The hive grow/shrink from sword logic due to their worm

Savathun has no worm

[mild junco]

Would that not imply that Savathuns worm, her brood, and a lot of the sword logic stuff happened after savathun becomes a gaurdian?

[blazing wasp]

Her worm was removed before she became a guardian, it didn't get to see any effects done to it

Sword logic kinda needs a worm

[mild junco]

Eris didn't have one did she?

Like, she OWNED a worm obviously, but she didn't like

Merge with it or whatever they do

[blazing wasp]

She basically used Bluetooth using asha

A proto worm god

[mild junco]

So if Oryx were to become a guardian, the only thing that apuld change is just his ideology? His worm wpuldnt get fucked up, and he wouldn't change physically?

[blazing wasp]

If he became a guardian he wouldn't be oryx

[mild junco]

And by the way, do we know when savathun and her brood get the light? Have they just always had it?

[blazing wasp]

Savathun is the only exception ever known to the "a guardian is a different person than their old self"

[cloud glacier]

pretty sure that unless he gets plastic surgery he can’t have his appearance changed

[mild junco]

Physically speaking

[blazing wasp]

And we know how savathun did that

[ember storm]

His worm is already gone

Hive worms are parasites, without food they die

[cloud glacier]

also wait

[ember storm]

No hive Lightbearers have their worms anymore because they were literally corpses

[cloud glacier]

did we kill Oryx or did we not

[ember storm]

We did

[mild junco]

The Echo is like

His memory

[ember storm]

Everything that consisted of his actual being is dead

The echo is literally that, an echo

It was a copy of oryx’s consciousness just after killing Akka and becoming taken king

no Dreadnaught, no children, no real experience

[mild junco]

Wtf going on with Xivu Arath btw? Didn't we banish her like a year and a half ago? Has anything been done with her other than her just screaming at people?

[ember storm]

We removed her from her throne world so she doesn’t have a respawn point

This has made her a lot angrier and more strategic in every way because she has to be

[mild junco]

Alright

What happens to her brood once she dies do they just like

Fuck off

[ember storm]

I mean they’re hive

Someone else will take control and they’ll just keep going

They literally have to or else their worms would just eat them

[mild junco]

If its sword logic would that person just be whoever kills xivu

[ember storm]

No

Are you expecting some random hive to kill her instead of us or even Savathun

[mild junco]

I mean do the hive even necessarily have to follow another hive?

Would Eris count since she was once hive?

[ember storm]

If they actually want to survive as a species

Their entire existence revolves around being able to wipe out entire planets at a time to sustain themselves

They literally can’t survive if they split up

[mild junco]

But say like

Idk

[ember storm]

Their last legitimate victory was the destruction of torobotl

[mild junco]

The vex got a hold of the hive

Could they just infinitely satiate them

[ember storm]

No

[mild junco]

With simulations

[ember storm]

That wouldn’t generate any sustenance

Also why would vex do that

[mild junco]

Cause if it worked would tha not basically just mass produce hive

[ember storm]

They literally have 1:1 lifelike simulations of hive

They don’t need hive

The entire vex goal is removing everything in the universe that isn’t vex

Why would they want more of things that aren’t vex

[mild junco]

They're quite shit at that

[mild junco]

I didn't know that was their goal mb

[ember storm]

Literally only because they have to fight paracausal beings

Every time vex fight normal people they completely obliterate them

[mild junco]

Aren't the vex we fight like mining vex mostly

Like aren't we fighting the lower ends of the vex heighrarchy even when we fight like, minotaurs

Stg I heard smth about that

[ember storm]

Vex don’t have hierarchy

That was bullshit Calus made up to sound clever

They’re not a warring species, they don’t see what they do as war, they don’t use weapons

[mild junco]

I mean not heirarchy spray theyre all a hive mind but I mean like

[ember storm]

Also not a hive mind

[mild junco]

Tf are they then

[ember storm]

Vex bosses that are called Minds just inhabit the chassis of all the smaller units around them

[mild junco]

Oh right the weird white shit is like

[ember storm]

They’re a series of patterns suspended in a brain fluid

[mild junco]

All tiny vex

Are the vex even alive?

Like are they classified as like, creatures or are they something else

[ember storm]

The cells in radiolaria are biological

[hard sigil]

they're very very smart bacteria

in a super reductive sense

[mild junco]

Are they kinda like the flood from halo where they aren't exactly like, alive persay theyre just kinda there in the universe

[slim girder]

Radiolaria the white stuff you see inside vex or in massive pools like the cistern on nessus ARE the actual vex as a biological species. One drop can host possibly millions of lifeforms

[ember storm]

I mean they are alive and they do think

[slim girder]

Sort of. They behave like the flood with the whole goal of making every living thing in the universe like them.

[mild junco]

Are they like the cordyceps where it sole goal is just to keep growing and growing happens to be destroying everything

[hard sigil]

they're living computers in the sense that radiolaria is essentially a liquid circuit board that connects every individual bacterium suspended within it

[slim girder]

But they are leagues more advanced as evident by their simulation and time travel capabilities along with structures like the pyramidion and citadels

[slim girder]

No. Because the vex are alive and a living species.
That's just a fungus

[trim grotto]

In a manner of speaking. The Vex wish to terraform all, simulate all, make all theirs.
But the Vex? The Vex seek neither Light nor Darkness. They seek Convergence, the reduction of all life to its simplest, most meaningless form. An entelechy of zeros and ones.

[mild junco]

Whats up with the different kinds of vex? Didn't they form gangs in the Warden Of Nothing strike?

[trim grotto]

They are living beings, but their minds are fundamentally different to most life.

[trim grotto]

All Vex seek Convergence. Their form of a Final Shape, in a way. But different Collectives are formed with different purposes, different goals or ways of aiding or achieving that goal.

The Vex of the Prison of Elders were cut off from the rest, and so formed their own... minature Collective.

[mild junco]

Whats up with the friendly harpy then? Is it even vex?

[slim girder]

Different kinds of vex are basically like different sectors of a company. Some do things there and others do things over there if that makes sense.
All vex are made to do a job under an axis mind but even then it's not because of leadership it's simply vex made for the task needing to be done.

[mild junco]

Wait does this mean you could hypothetically weaponize them?

[trim grotto]

There have been a few of those. Some merely ran simulations, some ran tests on us. One was a Harpy unit controlled by Asher.

[slim girder]

That is a person who hijacked a vex harpy named Asher mir.

[trim grotto]

No, since they're living beings and can think for themselves. Not unless we shared a common enemy.

[mild junco]

Are they like, actually friendly? Could there be a vex that doesn't want to jsut kill everything?

[hard sigil]

I like the vex because they are TRULY alien. they don't even think REMOTELY the same way that we, or any of the other main factions do

[slim girder]

No. Everything must be vex. That is all they know

They do not possess emotions

[hard sigil]

there's no such thing as "a" vex. individuality has only VERY recently been introduced to them through the Conductors influence in Echoes

[trim grotto]

No, they're not. And no, not really. That said, killing is adjascent. Nessus is full of life, and the Vex did that. But it's their life, and the flora and fauna are all part of their network.

[hard sigil]

and even then it was limited

[mild junco]

I agree, its why I like nessus so much is because thay whole place just feels... unholy, like its not supposed to exist

Do vex fight amongst each other? Like does they disagree on how to reach the goal?

[trim grotto]

The Sol Divisive is a Collective that is infamous for that, yes.

The Sol Divisive are the mossy Vex who inhabit the Black Garden - you may have fought them amongst the forces of the Witness. They found that worship of the Black Heart granted them power, and so their priorities shifted.

[mild junco]

What were to happen if, purely hypothetically, a vex got the light? Would they be separated and make their own collective or would they just kinda like, do whatever? (For the sake of the hypothetical assume a vex is like, a goblin and they all have the light or thyre lined merged into one or smth)

[hard sigil]

not how it would work

a literally microscopic risen would be funny though

[mild junco]

If they fight about it though, would that not imply that, to some extent, there is a heirarchy? Or at least """"politics"""""?

[trim grotto]

I would not expect a Vex unit to do anything but empower the rest of its Collective. The Vex do not understand paracausality - this breakaway is all that keeps us competitive with them. Paracausality is an adjacent system to physics, and it is literally incomprehensible to them. But they do recognise power - and if they could harness it, it would be devastating.

[hard sigil]

the vex is a collective consciousness but their "leaders" in that sense are pretty much just banks of information sent to deal with things in a local scale. there would be no argument to be had

[mild junco]

But thay vex would completely be wiped of its goals, ideas etc right? Would it just become a piece of radiolaria ex-communicated?

[trim grotto]

Hierarchy? Within Collectives, yes. Without, no. Politics? Of a sort. The Sol Divisive, like all Vex, seek Convergence. Their path, however, differs so significantly that they cross with the regular Collective(s).

They have, however, still worked together in the past.

[trim grotto]

Vex don't form goals as a manner of upbringing or culture. It is their very DNA.

One moment

Utopian? No. Not at all. They are without meaning. They have no experience and no subjectivity. The Vex are incapable of conceiving any image but their own. They do not recombine their DNA to make children or form relationships with other individuals. When the world does not match their eternal pattern, they alter the world to suit it. There is no difference between reality and simulation to them. Inside is the same as outside, and the two must be made to correspond. Oh, they are creative—don’t mistake me—but their creativity is demanding. It is the creativity of a furnace.

What I am saying is, the Vex are immortal. The Vex have no children. They are the ancestors and descendants of themselves. First mothers, first children, all at once.```

[mild junco]

If its DNA based could the witness or aosme other being have made a small collective that would be an """"ally""""

[hard sigil]

that's what the Sol Divisive was, in a way

[mild junco]

Cause the witness could control EVERYTHING with the Final Shape, right?

[trim grotto]

The Sol Divisive already worked with the Witness.

[hard sigil]

they discovered the black garden, communed with the witness, and thought it to be the most efficient way to bring about their goal

[trim grotto]

The Final Shape was the ending of the universe. It would have been a perfect stillness.

[mild junco]

But the sol divisive was only doing that for the greater collective, right?

[trim grotto]

And/or themselves. As did nearly everything that worked with the Witness.

[mild junco]

I know, but im saying that power could probably be used for stuff like that right?

Like, hypothetically

[hard sigil]

impossible to do on a large scale though

[mild junco]

But it could be done right

[hard sigil]

the Conductor used the Echo of the Qugu to partition off her collective for her own goals

[mild junco]

Yoi could theoretically make the vex different

[trim grotto]

The Conductor is doing this.

[hard sigil]

it requires conversion of every single radiolaria to that purpose though which is why it's essentially impossible unless, for instance, you were welding a paracausal artefact with the ability to compel minds

[mild junco]

Oh I thought that was just like, controlling them theyre just completely rewritten damn

[trim grotto]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tmu9sjYV7c6X1NhRQmOxkj_o7IJ4ZRcifbm49MNr12s/edit?usp=sharing
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/clovis-brays-logbook-missing-pages

If you want to learn more about the Vex (And Clovis Bray, Europa, Clarity Control and the Exo), try the Logbook of Clovis Bray. Parts 1 and 2. And yes, the first half has to be in this format.

[trim grotto]

Well, it is controlling. One who was rewriting them would be creating an entirely new species.

[mild junco]

Unrelated question, what's the difference between the guardians prismatic harnessing both dark and light at the same time and the Witnwss doing it? Or is that not what the witness did?

[hard sigil]

the witness was forcing the traveller to submit to its will via torture, basically

[trim grotto]

The Witness wasn't exactly wielding Light. It was forcing the Traveler to weave the Light. We wielded them both together harmoniously, flowing together as a new power - the Witness was forcing them together. Square block in the circle hole.

[mild junco]

So if the traveler felt like it it could just make any entity it wants god?

[trim grotto]

It certainly wouldn't feel like it. But... well, yes and no. We saw what happened when someone drew so much power from the Traveler - Dominus Ghaul. We also saw what the Traveler sacrificed to banish him.

When the Collapse was at its climax, the Traveler pushed back the Darkness and created the Ghosts. This combined effort rendered it comatose for centuries.

The banishment of Ghaul and the breaking of the Cage shattered its shell for years.

[mild junco]

Yeah tf happened to that guy anyways

Like hes very clearly

Dead

I think

[trim grotto]

He is.

[mild junco]

Is he in like, hell or something

Or is he just gone

[trim grotto]

No. He's... just dead.

[hard sigil]

and besides, guardians already had access to both the light and dark at this point. transcendence energy is almost a by-product of what was going on in the pale heart

[mild junco]

Do we know anything about it or do we just know hes dead

[hard sigil]

he got melted

[trim grotto]

We saw him die. It was in the ending cutscene of the Red War campaign.

[mild junco]

Yeah but like, is there any lore on what was done to him or is it just "hes dead now lol"

[trim grotto]

The Traveler destroyed him and shattered its shell with the effort. He's dead.

[hard sigil]

what do you think they did with the puddle of ghaul

[mild junco]

Gun

[sick yew]

Drank him

[trim grotto]

Well, it was Light. The Traveler probably reclaimed it.

[mild junco]

The Traveler is like, a living being right?

[sick yew]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

Sentient, yes.

[hard sigil]

it's iffy but we know it's sentient and can feel pain

[mild junco]

Just sentient? Or living?

Could it die?

[sick yew]

Probably

[trim grotto]

Well, it doesn't have organs. But it's a fully conscious, thinking, feeling being.

[trim grotto]

Yes. It very nearly did in both the Collapse and Red War.

[mild junco]

I doubt there's much of an answer, but what would happen if the vex did... whatever the vex do to people

Cause they like assimilate things right

[trim grotto]

They would die and their flesh would be converted into Vex.

It has happened.

[mild junco]

If the traveler dies, does light go with it?

[hard sigil]

traveller is too paracausal for conversion I'd think

[mild junco]

Like do the ghosts just become funny little guys if the traveler dies?

[trim grotto]

Ours would. Our Ghosts are conduits to the Traveler's Light.

[trim grotto]

Either that, or they'd die. Hard to say. They are, themselves, Light in a shell.

[mild junco]

What happens when a ghost dies? Does it like go back to the traveler like (if think) cayde did? Are they reborn?

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/test-no-142-radiolarian-fluid-ingestion#book-bray-lab-records-confidential
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/test-no-167-radiolarian-fluid-injection#book-bray-lab-records-confidential

[hard sigil]

judging by red war it'd be like amputating all of the limbs off a person and asking them to run a marathon

[mild junco]

M-Marathon...?

[trim grotto]

Yes. We saw that with Sagira in the Final Shape. And no. The creation of the Ghosts was a one time event.

[mild junco]

Correction, are they repurposed

Like does the light get, lack of a better term reincarnated?

[trim grotto]

No.

[mild junco]

So then what's up with cayde? Wasn't he made of light?

[hard sigil]

i suspect it was a special case

[trim grotto]

Cayde-6's return was a unique event due to interference from Riven of a Thousand Voices, and the Wish that Crow unintentionally made to her.

[mild junco]

I know he was wished back, but was he just like

[slim girder]

He came back through wish magic unknowingly made by crow making a wish

[mild junco]

Did the traveler have any sort of impact on that? Like was an agreement made between riven and the traveler or was cayde just there now and the traveler just had to deal with it

I say agreement in heavy quotes

[trim grotto]

He was... essentially torn out of the Traveler.

[hard sigil]

wish magic is just as paracausal as the light

[mild junco]

Interaction is better

[mild junco]

Could Ghaul be reborn through wishes then?

Could Savathun have used her 13th wish to bring back Oryx using the light or somethinf?

[trim grotto]

I doubt the Traveler "kept" him. But hypothetically, sure. Wish Magic is... hard to quantify.

[trim grotto]

Forcing a Ghost to resurrect someone is recipe for pissing the Traveler off. It values, amongst all else, free will.

[hard sigil]

see: rhulk getting a ghost blown up in his face

[mild junco]

I mean, the traveler didn't really seem to give a shit about cayde being back despite cayde saying he didn't want to be back

[trim grotto]

It was also actively being tortured by a god entity within its body.

[hard sigil]

because the traveller didn't really have a choice

and help is help

[mild junco]

Tf was savathun even doing with that wish? Just hogging it?

[trim grotto]

The Traveler was in a bad state during the Final Shape campaign. Our own Ghost thought it had even died after Lightfall.

[hard sigil]

if I had a one time "possible restructure all of reality" button I wouldn't use it unless it was REALLY important

[trim grotto]

Savathun is a planner and manipulator - but she, despite being our enemy, needed the Traveler to survive.

[mild junco]

I mean yeha but savathun has been shown to not exactly be too logical sometimes

She still has emotions and shit

[hard sigil]

quite the opposite

[trim grotto]

Outside of two circumstances, she's been rather stoic.

[hard sigil]

if savathûn is acting illogically to you, then you're missing something

[mild junco]

What the fuck was she doing in the pale heart now that I think about it

[hard sigil]

she needed the traveller alive as much as we did

[trim grotto]

Helping us defeat the Witness. Enemy of our enemy. If the Witness won, the universe ended. Savathun loses.

[hard sigil]

the final shape was a bad deal for EVERYONE involved

[mild junco]

She very evidently did not enjoy us she actively tried to fuck us over did she not

[ember storm]

She was actively staking a claim while we were preoccupied with the witness

Now that it’s dead lucent hive keep trying to take control

[mild junco]

Ag

[hard sigil]

wanting the same goal doesn't mean you need to be friends

[ember storm]

She put it under the pretense of basically toughening us up for the final fight but she was literally just taking advantage of the chaos

[trim grotto]

She fucked around with us, but at one point was attempting to teach us a lesson in doing it.

[mild junco]

Do we know anything about Luzaku other than friend?

[ember storm]

We got class items out of it so eh

[ember storm]

She used to be an acolyte

[mild junco]

Does she do anything besides be in that lost sector?

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/euloch

[mild junco]

Ooh I read

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/first-ascent-hood
Also this, for that matter.

[trim grotto]

She helped us in the final battle.

[hard sigil]

since lucent hive risen aren't bound by sword logic, they don't necessarily need to follow the hierarchy system. most do out of loyalty or habit, but Luzaku decided she'd rather serve the traveller directly

[ember storm]

Along with my favorite characters Lightbearer Knight

[mild junco]

Oh so basically she just didn't feel like being with savathun

She just went off to basically be a servant ig

[ember storm]

And scur -v

[trim grotto]

That's a bit reductive, but sure.
Savathun rather endorses this, though. She encouraged Luzaku to find her own truth and not to serve.

[trim grotto]

No.

[hard sigil]

don't diss Scur-V it was CRUCIAL to the plot of Plunder

[mild junco]

Wait... did Luzaku almost kill our gaurdian?

[ember storm]

I said favorite

[trim grotto]

No.

[mild junco]

At the end it says "The Gaurdian" in proper punctuation

[ember storm]

It says His also

Which is not

[mild junco]

Yeah fair actually

[ember storm]

That’s just how they talk without proper English skills

[trim grotto]

Guardian is a proper noun. "The" was capitalised as the start of a sentence.

[mild junco]

Oh yeah mb

So basically, luzaku just didn't really feel like working for savathun, and instead just wants to be friends with big circle

And, seemingly, her ghost isn't exactly pleased with the idea

[trim grotto]

Her Ghost is rather a fan of the Sword Logic and the brutality of the Hive. She... disagrees.

[mild junco]

Does she even still... "have" her ghost? Did it just leave?

[hard sigil]

id say it was more an epiphany about risen killing risen

[mild junco]

Is it like the evil version of finch

[trim grotto]

She does. Even amongst disagreements so severe, they're fiercely loyal. It takes a lot to make a Ghost leave their Chosen Lightbearer.

It has happened, mind you.

[mild junco]

Yeah didn't finch just not like his risen

Like at all

And just decided not to bring him back

[hard sigil]

Fynch backtracked once he realised that he was basically being indoctrinated into a cult

[trim grotto]

His Knight was particularly bloodthirsty even for the Hive. Fynch...

Well, he has severe regrets for what he did.

[mild junco]

Why is finch missing a horn

Is he just damaged or is it like symbolism

[hard sigil]

it's implied

at least imo

that fynch had a part in putting his knight down

[trim grotto]

He also happens to know of a rather effective poison that affects Hive.

[mild junco]

Are hive ghosts different than ours by the way?

I noticed their "eyes" are different

Like ar they a subspecies or is it like a race thing?

[trim grotto]

It's simply a different shell. And different ideals. They're the same Ghosts as ours.

They changed their Shells when they joined the Hive.

[mild junco]

The shells yeah, but I mean the little ball in the middle

[trim grotto]

Yes. It's part of the Shell.

[mild junco]

The hive ones are more shrieked esque, right?

[hard sigil]

it's a lense

[mild junco]

Oh i thought that was just them

[hard sigil]

there's a bunch of shells with different eye designs

[trim grotto]

The Ghosts are... sentient frequencies of Light contained within a Shell of metal and glass. This is simply a different Shell.

Think of them like ethereal hermit crabs. In robot shells.

[mild junco]

Do ghosts have a choice in how they look or anythinf

Like could one just make himself look like shaxx

[hard sigil]

well they can change shell

[mild junco]

Yeah but like can they ask for like

A triangle rather than a tiny ball

[hard sigil]

there are triangular shells in the game

[trim grotto]

It's implied their "default" shell changed form when they joined the Hive, but otherwise they'd have to make one themselves or ask for one to be made for them.

[mild junco]

Ah

[trim grotto]

Basically the cosmetic shells we see in game are canon. Mostly.

[mild junco]

Well its been fun but its 7am so I should probably go to bed

You guys are much more willing to entertain my dumbass questions than I had anticipated

[trim grotto]

Normally I'd use more sources and references but those were pretty quickfire haha

[hard sigil]

that's why this channel is here

[mild junco]

This would imply that all the crossovers were once franchises that existed in lore

And the ghost/gaurdian had an enjoyment of them

[trim grotto]

Hence the "mostly"

[hard sigil]

mostly

[mild junco]

They de-canonized pineapples i think street fighter existing isn't far fetched

Especially since the Neomuna arcades have foghting game controls

[hard sigil]

any copy of street fighter surviving until modern day destiny would be crazy

[trim grotto]

Pineapples are perfectly canon. They're just mostly extinct.

We actually found some. Eris made pineapple fried rice.

[mild junco]

I mean shit megamans dead corpse has been paraded for 15 years what's another century

[hard sigil]

way more than a century

Zavala himself is like. a couple centuries old

[mild junco]

Isn't drifter like

Ancient

[slim girder]

Tasty

[trim grotto]

Likely one of the earliest Risen, though we can't say for sure.

We also don't know how long the Dark Ages actually were.

He's centuries old, at least.

[mild junco]

If we were to compare destiny eras to our own eras where are we rn in destiny

Rennisance?

[hard sigil]

Eramis and the other Eliksni houses arrived around the start of the dark age though, no?

[trim grotto]

Destiny is set in our future. The Dark Age of Destiny doesn't really compare to the medieval Dark Age, either.

[trim grotto]

Early Dark Age, vaguely.

[mild junco]

Fair

[hard sigil]

I wouldn't put it at more than a millennium personally

[mild junco]

Don't the cabal just kill shit for the sake of killing shit

Like obviously there's honor but like

[hard sigil]

especially with the state of the Cosmodrome and EDZ

[mild junco]

Don't they just fight for the hell of it

[hard sigil]

they fight to conquer

[mild junco]

Ah

[hard sigil]

but they do have ceremonial gladiator matches and such

they're a very aggressive culture

[mild junco]

Ok srsly I gotta get to bed gn everyone I will probably be back tomorrow with more of my bullshit

You guys are much more accepting of my questions than the warhammer community was

Ok gn

[slim girder]

Vikings in space.

Conquest, honour and then massive banquets with royal wine

"We eat the mountains, we drink the seas"

[blazing wasp]

isnt it just space rome

[cyan notch]

Why does cayde get along with crow so well bro literally murdered him

[ember storm]

The entire point is that he’s not Uldren

dunno how else the game is supposed to spell that out besides Cayde literally getting along with Crow

[blazing wasp]

a guardian is not their past pre-revival selves

same skin different snake

are you familiar with "nature vs nurture"?

[trim grotto]

Uldren murdered Cayde. Crow did not.

This is the point and purpose of being without memory upon resurrection. You aren't your past self.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/still-hunt
Read this. It's rather relevant.

[blazing wasp]

savathun is an exception i suppose but its the only exception

[trim grotto]

She wouldn't have been, had she not attempted, successfully, to become who she used to be.

[cyan notch]

Yeah yeah

[blazing wasp]

when a guardian is revived, the "nurture" part is reset

[alpine haven]

Idk did it

[trim grotto]

The ones there are dead. You don't fight them.

So, no.

[ember storm]

I’d call Rhulk a figurative worm

[sick yew]

But would you still love hem were he a literal worm

[ember storm]

I don’t love him now

[blazing wasp]

avoiding the question

[ember storm]

Physical metrics make no difference i just don’t like him

[sick yew]

So you would still love him if he was a worm
Since physical metrics make no difference

[ember storm]

That literally doesn’t even work logically you’re just a clown

I said I don’t love him at all

You will be blended

[slim girder]

I like this lore. Definitely showed that cayde still had a lot of pent up rage considering the ways he was thinking off and was almost about to do to kill crow had glint not stopped him.

Even when crow first came into the pale heart cayde intentionally put him on his back thinking it was uldren so he could kill him the same way uldren killed him.

[shrewd junco]

Random thought.
On Vesper Station (the dungeon), the AI (Vesper Central/Astraea) recieves a message from the Anomaly that states: "Lodi transmitting. Status moonsick, adrift. Odysseus protocol active."
Well, well.. "Lodi", eh?
I guess that will be interesting when Edge of Fate arrives.

[slim girder]

Does he know

[rigid flower]

IS there a reason Hive Ghosts don't giga explode like ours?

Or is that just a gameplay hinderance?

[slim girder]

Just gameplay.

[shrewd junco]

Ah.. now that I see, I am indeed quite late with that realization xD

[ember storm]

they're not killed with pure paracausal power

like a devourer bullet direct impact or the witness literally crushing them (inherently more stronger than just our bare fists)

we have paracausal power which is why we can crush them but it's still far less of a counter

[ember storm]

the forsaken announcement trailer shows sundance killed by ace instead and she just gets plinked and dies

[sick yew]

They did her so dirty in that one like she just gets run over by an invisible truck or sum

[mild junco]

If strand is the very like, web of existence, what stops us from just like, removing people?

Like do we need threadlings really or can we just like undo them like pulling a piece of string

[slim girder]

Not how it works. It connects all living beings sure but it isn't like it decides who exists or not.

It's a bit like the ascendant plane. Subject to the wielders influence and based on that persons influence they can reach in and manipulate that web creating things like threadlings or in hunter and titans cases, weapons.

[trim grotto]

That said, dying to it certainly seems rather grim.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-warp-and-weft
Warp And Weft explores two sides of Strand - One is Osiris's research and theories, and the other, the way that Guardians began to wield it in the early days - and the way you needed to treat it.

[hard sigil]

the verb Sever literally severs someone from this web, disconnecting them from all other beings

and iirc this results in the lower damage output because their intent to harm isn't as well "broadcasted" as it would be if they were still connected

[trim grotto]

I don't recall that ever being detailed, but if you remember where it's from, I'd love to know.

[hard sigil]

I can't find it anywhere so it might be that my brain made it up at some point and I've just come to believe it

[river surge]

So Maya Sundaresh went to Kepler

[sick yew]

Appears so

[slim girder]

I can't wait to learn more about these aionians

Lodi is a human but do they also have awoken or exos among them even though bungie did say human scientists travelled there a long time ago.

What exactly do they do every day. The neomuni seemed to have a relatively peaceful life up until the shadow legion. But these guys look more like they're a big group of researchers

Are they going to have a similar response to us as the neomuni since it doesn't look like they've ever seen a guardian before.

[slim girder]

Also I'm confused. Why are people saying Maya is on Kepler? I know there are vex there but I didn't see any of those mantles on the choral vex that we saw back in echoes which were the defining feature of the choral vex.

These just look like precursor vex units

[ember storm]

You can see the conductor in the latest screenshot trailer thing

So she’s most likely there trying to stake a claim on the local vex

[slim girder]

Could you link me it?

[ember storm]

no

[slim girder]

Or maybe this singularity poses some value to her.

Who knows

Maybe this time we'll even secure or destroy the echo she has. Hell she could def pose as a raid boss.

[little gorge]

i wonder if the aionians have become a different "form" of humanity like the awoken or if they're just a secluded civilization

dark matter exposure could have changed them

or maybe they've modified their bodies somehow

[slim girder]

Bungie said their scientific ideals became ingrained into their culture so it's much like if science was your way of life basically

[hard sigil]

#🏆destiny-media message

[slim girder]

Ahh ok I see it now. Interesting that it's now this shadowy projection of maya and not the old "collars" we saw. I thought that was a much cooler look.

[slim girder]

Big adeptus mechanicus from Warhammer 40k with the aionians.

They way they're dressed makes me think they treat machines in the same way the eliksni do. Like they are sacred and worshipped.

[little gorge]

there's the whole observe connect conceal return conform comply thing

[slim girder]

Yeah that's interesting because in the trailer it said those words in a very distorted voice. Lodi also says he has visions and isn't human anymore so maybe it's something else that says those words through Lodi.

There's also the imagery implying Lodi has gone insane

[little gorge]

also it seems bungie is trying to do the whole "isolated humans left in the golden age" idea justice

[slim girder]

Yeah. Hopefully this time they do a better job with it than they did with the neomuni

[hard sigil]

I like the "science cult" idea better than "hey here's a whole city that you will never meet any normal inhabitants of"

[ember storm]

Neomuna 2

But they’ll never top capybara hour

[sweet swan]

so I'm thinking about making my own lore surrounding my guardian and my friend's guardians too and I wanted to ask some questions regarding the weapons

I wanna include some of my favorite guns and since I usually use like raid/dungeon loot what's the lore behind some of the weapons you get more specifically the ones from VoG because I love em

[blazing wasp]

The lore behind VoGs exotic is that it's a vex gun clearly meant for human hands but we have no goddamn idea how or why

[sweet swan]

I meant the legendaries like the Fatebringer

I don't have the exotic yet, didn't get it to drop

[blazing wasp]

Ah, that I don't know

They're not vex weapons at least

[sweet swan]

I read something that they might be from like that one fireteam who went into the vault but I have no idea if that's like confirmed or not

or a fireteam who went into the vault

[hard sigil]

I think it'd be safe to say those were originally the fireteam's weapons, but it's easy enough to also add "after their recovery from the vault of glass by the fireteam that felled Atheon, the patterns were distributed throughout the guardian population

[slim girder]

Some VoG weapons that are named after those guardians sure but the rest are really all up to interpretation.

[sweet swan]

I might end up going with that, it would make sense

[slim girder]

Knowing hunters and their love for hand cannons I've always thought fatebringer was pahanins gun.

[sweet swan]

I'm trying to also think of my own hand cannon that's exclusive to my guardian

[sweet swan]

guilty, I'm a hunter and I love HCs, I collect them even if they're good or shit

I don't know where to start with this story about me and my friend's characters, I'm not a creative guy

[trim grotto]

While we're certainly happy to help with lore relevant questions, I'm not sure how many of us are fanfic oriented or writers.

[sweet swan]

It'll get me something to do with my hands

[slim girder]

Yeah that's a very tricky thing to cook up

[hard sigil]

I am. kinda

[sweet swan]

here's a bit about me, idk how good it is

[trim grotto]

Well, off the bat there's a mild issue. One does not simply resurrect any old person.

There are Ghosts today who have been searching for their Chosen since the day the Collapse ended.

[sweet swan]

I'm not a lore expert

so this will help

[sweet swan]

I see

so any idea how I could redo this?

I already have a name for my ghost

[trim grotto]

Well, there's always something to be said for the concept of found family. Take... Tess and Fenchurch Everis. Tess is a mortal, Earthborn Awoken. Fenchurch is a Warlock. When he awoke, the cryptographic key of a Silver coin he was resurrected with matched with Tess's. Neither of them truly know why this is. They believe it's possible they're related... and so Fenchurch adopted Tess's surname of Everis and took to her as an uncle.

Are they actually related? Perhaps, perhaps not. But they're family to one another nonetheless.

[hard sigil]

and there are warlock sects who keep tradition

[sweet swan]

wym tradition?

[hard sigil]

this is mostly pre-red war but groups such as the sunbreakers and the Praxic order

they're more.. cult-like in their beliefs

[trim grotto]

Your Hunter can still have been "raised" by Warlocks. A Fireteam, or even smaller Warlock Order, could have taken him in. Many Fireteams grow quite close. Like family.

[trim grotto]

You definitely chose the most cult-like of the groups haha

[sweet swan]

so like after resurrection he's found by Warlocks and they take him in as one of their own?

[trim grotto]

Sure. Imagine a... Warlock oriented Fireteam being out on a mission and finding a Ghost resurrecting someone for the first time - they're alone, scared, amnesic - and taking him in. Or finding him shortly after this event, huddled in some old ruin.

Also for what it's worth, Guardians have a loose rule not to look into their past lives.

This is not always followed very closely, but it's sort of a code.

[sweet swan]

I see

so do some ghosts just wander around planets looking for their '"chosen"?

[hard sigil]

ok here's a concept: when your guardian fully commits to wanting to be a hunter, they convert their robes into a cloak

[trim grotto]

Yes. Most unpaired Ghosts do exactly that. Some have given up, and work for the Vanguard as part of the Spectral Network - as do some who lost their Guardians - but most continue the search for their Chosen.

[hard sigil]

maybe reforge their bond into a part of that signature handcannon you wanted?

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/pulled-pork
Here's an example - and believe it or not, you've probably met this Ghost before.

[sweet swan]

I see Pulled Pork and isn't that Crow's ghost

[trim grotto]

Crow renamed him Glint. Yes, very astute!

https://youtu.be/xh5arwBDj9I?si=wvuVX0WDA03aWTHR

[sweet swan]

I'll start writing the remade lore with actual accuracy cuz I have nothing to do right now

[trim grotto]

If you so desire. You can always do an AU. It's what Destiny Rising is, for example.

[sweet swan]

I might start it like that cutscene where it starts with my ghost

[sweet swan]

how is it an au? thought it was like thousands of years before the red war

[trim grotto]

It's an entirely different universe. It's... completely incompatible.

[hard sigil]

big robots and such

[trim grotto]

Amongst other things.

[sweet swan]

I see

my friend and I made an agreement back during Foresaken I think where we get our own hand cannons, he uses the Ace of Spades I use the last word

so if it's like rising and an au couldn't I make the Ace his and not Cayde's

[trim grotto]

Sure. Though, Ace and the whole card suite thing had a lot of connection to Cayde's story, like that of his wife and child.

[sweet swan]

I was thinking in the original verison of my story that I used an ornament for the last word so it's not the one that Shin Malphur or Jaren Ward had

I could do the same with the Ace

where the gun isn't the normal but an ornament

[trim grotto]

I believe every Ornament bar the funny one with the chicken still has an actual Ace on it. But hey, you're the writer. The world is your oyster.

[sweet swan]

I wish I could draw and I'd draw concepts and shit

[jagged badge]

Your face is your oyster

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/clam-oyster-wink-eye-gif-18785727

[hard sigil]

doing pale heart stuff for some solipsisms and the exchange with Luzaku and Glint is very neat. I REALLY want to hear more about her philosophy

[sweet swan]

so is this basically what the rose is for the Thorn but for the last word?

[hard sigil]

yeah, but in a much more grounded sense

it's not a gun being corrupted by darkness, just a literal prototype

[trim grotto]

I believe that was for First Curse. Hence the name, which refers to a spoken curse.

[sweet swan]

it is

[trim grotto]

First Curse is simply a different Tex Mechanica production. It isn't actually relevant to the Last Word in such a way.

That said, First Curse is two things. Firstly, the D1 model is a recreation. Secondly... it has very, very little lore of its own, apart from being the sibling to the Last Word.

One could very easily work with that, if one desired to.

[sweet swan]

whats the lore of the vexcalibur? cuz I'm thinking I could exchange that glaive for the Ace ornament

and that could be my friend's gun

[sick yew]

I mean Last Word itself isnt really special now is it?
Just a Tex gun

[sweet swan]

if he likes the idea

[sick yew]

Its legendary status moreso came from the tales of Dredgen Yor and Shin (and Jarren Ward for that matter)

[trim grotto]

Not in and of itself, no. The thing that made it special was the story it was in.

[sick yew]

Yup

[trim grotto]

Vexcalibur was... essentially a gift from the data remnants of Asher Mir.

[sweet swan]

who's that?

[sick yew]

Ex Lightbearer from the Red War days

Fell into Radiolaria which turned his arm into Vex and also disfigured his ghost

[trim grotto]

A rather crotchety Warlock who spent his time on Io before it was Taken by the Black Fleet, searching for a way to cure his gradual transformation into Vex.

[trim grotto]

Less fell into, more was captured and experimented on.

[sick yew]

Either way

Vex arm

And radiolaria infected ghost

[sweet swan]

so I could just exchange the Vexcalibur for the Ace ornament

pretty much the same design different weapon

[ember storm]

I mean purely aesthetically speaking that ornament is vex network themed like vexcalibur is, yes

They have nothing to do with each other though so eh

You could also just use any VoG or echoes weapons if you wanted

[trim grotto]

Sure. Or one of you could be particularly adept at navigating and manipulating the Network thanks to Sacred Splicer training from Misraaks. That'd be fun.

Bit of Splicing, bit of Light imbuement, and bam
Gun

[sweet swan]

I was planning in making my HC have the gun model of TTW, with a projection of something and wrapping from my guardian's bond but with adjustments to make it look like the Fatebringer

cuz I love the look of the gun

the fatebringer also looks similar to the last word anyways

imo

[trim grotto]

Well, we're kind of avoiding a simple solution here, too.

[hard sigil]

make one up !

[sweet swan]

I'm not creative

[trim grotto]

Tex Mechanica produced Last Word and First Curse. They're a gun foundry. Just... say you commissioned a weapon.

It's what Katabasis did when he commissioned them to make the Dead Man's Tale.

[sweet swan]

I might go with that yea

I should find a person who can make a comcept art of my HC to help with my visual aspect

[trim grotto]

"Tex Mechanica…" Zavala admires the rifle's craftsmanship. "This rifle was a custom craft. Its creation was never reported to the Vanguard."
And they're not avert to covert dealings, either

[sweet swan]

I'll ask my friend who can draw

back to the start of my story for a bit, it's gonna start with my ghost Mox, roaming somewhere and she sees my body

[ember storm]

Who was it that asked Shaxx to rig matches

[sweet swan]

do ghost ressurect from skeletons?

[ember storm]

They can

Ana was one

[sweet swan]

wait really?

[hard sigil]

judging by the rest of the cars in the Cosmodrome, so were we

and that one like. Mesopotamian guy

[trim grotto]

They can and have resurrected people from over ten thousand years before our time.

[ember storm]

Ignore the thumbnail but yeah

[sweet swan]

imagine George Washington as a guardian

[trim grotto]

I crouch and watch as she hovers over the years-old remains of a person, barely recognizable as something that was once living. The Ghost floats over the body nervously, and then scans it with pale light. In front of my eyes, flesh grows over old bones and tattered rags stitch themselves together. The person, a woman, gasps and sits up.

I can't believe it.```

[jagged badge]

Me after seeing a humorous post on the internet

[ember storm]

You got the praedyth laughing

[sweet swan]

does it hurt to be brought back? I see it says that Ana gasped and so did Crow in that cutscene

but then again gasping is like "oh where am I"

[trim grotto]

Nothing described resurrection as painful.

[sweet swan]

gonna presume it's like waking up from a sleep

[ember storm]

No

There’s no gradual process

It’s literally just nothing until everything that you are as a person is in complete working order

It’s just horribly difficult to get used to, but you can

Thanatonauts go through rezzes like they’re eating chips

[sweet swan]

what if a corpse is split in two or horribly disfigured

will it still be able to revive?

[trim grotto]

The nitty gritty of initial resurrection is unclear, but that's rather tame.
All we can say for sure is that the body cannot be atomised and cannot have damaged DNA.

[ember storm]

“Barely recognizable as something once living”

That’s not just a whole skeleton

[slim girder]

Ghosts can tell how someone died.
Back in D1 our ghost scans a skeleton followed then by saying "ouch"

[sweet swan]

so Mox could bring me back from half of my body being underneath rubble

[trim grotto]

Very likely.

[ember storm]

I mean that was mainly because they were keeled over a steering wheel with a broken windshield, no

Actually wasn’t the head off

[slim girder]

Pretty sure everything was there but there was a hole in the skeletons head

I'd need to check again

[ember storm]

I mean that doesn’t confirm anything

There is just a hole in their head and they’re in the drivers seat of a car

There’s not much mystery there

[slim girder]

Sure but I think a ghost, a being whose purpose is to resurrect someone, they'd be able to tell the way someone died. Not to say they could tell a guardian their backstory but i think it's plausible they would know our cause of death.

[sweet swan]

is ressurection instant or does it depend

[ember storm]

Takes less than a second upon activation

[sweet swan]

if it's a skeleton I'd imagine it's a lengthy process

[ember storm]

Ghosts have to manually open up

[sick yew]

They gotta spin the gear up

Or whatever

[slim girder]

"Release" their light it seems

[ember storm]

Ghosts act more like a relay for light between the traveler and guardians

[sweet swan]

how's this

[ember storm]

Ghost had to literally act as a projector to blast the EDZ shard’s stuff into us

[sick yew]

THey gotta connect to the wifi first

[ember storm]

This ghost would be incredibly lucky for it to just be days of searching

So it depends how long you want your guardian to be active for

[sweet swan]

how much time is suitable

[trim grotto]

Also says years after the Collapse

[ember storm]

Well that depends what you wanna write

If the ghost doesn’t immediately start searching right away that’s fine

But the search itself just being days is very lucky

[trim grotto]

Did you read the first sentence Waltz

[ember storm]

Yes

[sweet swan]

gonna presume it's a solid start then

[ember storm]

But the following sentence just says days of searching

Would it not be better to just clarify years if that was the point

[trim grotto]

Of a specific location

[ember storm]

Does the ghost have a name

[sweet swan]

Mox was wandering for years but happened to be at the area I'm reborn for a few days

Mox

[ember storm]

That’s fine then

[sweet swan]

originally Max but I wanted a less human name

and female

[trim grotto]

Another tidbit on that front
While Ghosts are often given nicknames, they often feel that their true name is given by their Chosen Lightbearer. Hence Pulled Pork becoming Glint, for example

[ember storm]

There’s ghosts who name themselves things like Peach

[trim grotto]

Peach is a delight

[ember storm]

I hope peach actually has the shell color of a peach

[sweet swan]

I was planning on making her a fashionista like me, I have a collection of Ghost shells that I alternate upon and her name changes with each she'll but Mox is the original name for her

I like ghost shells

[ember storm]

Spider does too

[trim grotto]

anyway i sleep now ciao

[sweet swan]

ciao

I'll update you later

[slim girder]

I've been trying to think what kind of shell she'd have while browsing through all the shells.

[sweet swan]

how is a guardian named?

[ember storm]

They decide for themselves

Although exo guardians have their names and iteration # encoded into them like dna, so their ghost could find it and tell them

It’s ultimately up to them whether they use that though

[slim girder]

Guardians like ana bray and cayde had items on them with their name

Ana had her name tag I believe

[ember storm]

Crow called himself Crow because like

He felt like it

[river creek]

Why has the original tower not been brought back yet?

[sweet swan]

cuz it's the pale heart?

[slim girder]

Still under repairs

[ember storm]

It’s never officially been under reconstruction

[river creek]

what does that have to do with it being repaired?

[hard sigil]

thought it was Spider named him that as a joke because Uldren had a symbolic thing with crows

[ember storm]

There has been cranes and infrastructure added which can very simply just be so the remains don’t literally collapse on the city below

[river creek]

serious?

[sweet swan]

idk I'm not really thinking

[ember storm]

Yeah but he could’ve changed it later

He decided to keep it

[hard sigil]

and his spy network was called the Crows

[ember storm]

There has never been an in universe reference to this happening

[river creek]

oh

[ember storm]

People just want it back and convinced themselves characters were doing the same

It’s not just like a building like the White House we can just put back up and move back in

And at this point there’s no real reason to do so

[hard sigil]

it's just as under repair as the rest of the city has been since the red war (the construction workers have been on strike for a decade)

[ember storm]

entire portions of the city are still just craters

[river creek]

You would think that they could find at least a couple of gaurdians to help out

[ember storm]

For what

Guardians aren’t trained in construction

Are you gonna give them normal paychecks

[river creek]

Didn't ikora help build the city and a bunch of other gaurdians?

[hard sigil]

50 glimmer / hour

[ember storm]

They weren’t in charge of that

[empty fern]

1 exotic engram a week, d1 rates

[river creek]

oh

[ember storm]

They just did basic manual labor to build the wall itself

[river creek]

oh

[ember storm]

People with actual experience and machines built the actual city

[empty fern]

How do we know

[ember storm]

like Ikora helped carry a big solid block

[ember storm]

Because that’s literally what the trailer showed

Actually machines were used for construction, guardians just did heavy lifting that didn’t require any expertise

And that was way way more important of a thing to do than rebuild an old hq nobody needs anymore

[river creek]

Is there politics in the Destiny lore?

Like

Is there other world powers outside of The last city

[ember storm]

The city itself used to have a consensus made up of mortal factions

There are no settlements on earth big enough to have any amount of political power or say

Neomuna is just one city and all stems from one group

no idea what’s going on in Kepler

[river creek]

Is everyone on neomuna in a simulation?

[hard sigil]

kinda?

[river creek]

wdym

[hard sigil]

the hologram people you see around Neomuna are the citizens

they're just there digitally

[river creek]

whats the fucking point then?

[hard sigil]

while their actual bodies are in cryo below to keep them safe

[river creek]

oh

[slim girder]

Protection from the shadow legion

[ember storm]

Their safety protocol involves putting their bodies in a hidden cryo facilities while they can still interact with the real world through an AR system

[slim girder]

This way they can continue to help the city but their actual bodies are protected by the cloudstriders

[ember storm]

That’s why you see all the hologram people

[hard sigil]

it's like an inverse matrix in a way

[river creek]

oh

[sweet swan]

can guardians scar?

[river creek]

wdym

Like

Mentally?

[sweet swan]

can they get scars

physical

[river creek]

uhh

[sweet swan]

mentally they probably do

I imagine it's a very hard profession

[river creek]

I think they can, if they don't die

[sweet swan]

I see

[blazing wasp]

highly unlikely

given how shaxx has revived himself on multiple occasions just to get a better throat after yelling so much, we can safely assume its not a thing.

[ember storm]

Then again Shaxx killed someone so hard their speech wasn’t working properly until they had to rez again

[hard sigil]

id say that could be more of a psychological effect carrying over too

[slim girder]

Not really a thing. Though apparently ikora was able to hurt shaxx to a point he still has trouble sitting. But I wouldn't take that as a concrete confirmation.

[queen swallow]

Yes and no. Guardians can get scars but only up until they die and need to be revived, which fully heals them and removes the scars.

So if a Guardian does have scars, it likely means that either they haven't been revived in a while or they have not taken significant enough damage to warrant some type of full heal like Pokemon or something

[sweet swan]

gotcha

[sweet swan]

I've been stuck for hours idk where to continue

I want the next part to be he's found by a fireteam of Warlocks but I don't know how to begin

[dapper moss]

well where did he wake up

and what class did he wake up as

[sweet swan]

you get a class when you're ressurected?

I wasn't told that earlier

[dapper moss]

well idk how it works tbh 😭

ig you could write something about him finding his way and finding what class he wants to be

[sweet swan]

Mox found me as a skeleton crushed by a building from below the ribcage

[dapper moss]

hmmm

sounds like the edz

[sweet swan]

I wanted it to be somewhere on Earth but idk

[river surge]

I really wonder if the Traveler will leave humanity after everything we did for it, like I wonder if theres going to be a moment where its gone and this time gone forever

[sweet swan]

I want it to be like Old Italy or something

[river surge]

What about the Asian part of Earth

like China or smth like that

[queen swallow]

I doubt it

[sweet swan]

maybe, I'm not gonna give it too much detail cuz it's not really too relevant

[river surge]

I mean its impossible, since WE are the chosen ones afterall

[jagged badge]

Hm?

[river surge]

What

[jagged badge]

What do you mean by that?

[queen swallow]

I don't think we're explicitly "The Chosen One" in so much as Bungie has no ability to actually take the Traveler away from us. That would need to be an actual D3 for it to happen but it's not going to so the Traveler cannot leave.

[jagged badge]

Yeah the Traveler is healing rn, which is code for “the Pale Heart needs to stick around for video game reasons”

[river surge]

Depends

I said chosen ones because we are by far the strongest the Traveler ever blessed

[jagged badge]

The Traveler can and has left us in other timelines, but in those cases it’s when humanity has forsook the Traveler and not lived up to its ideals

[jagged badge]

We aren’t

[river surge]

How is that

[jagged badge]

We are up there with Guardians but there are others with more experience and discipline and such

We aren’t chosen, we aren’t special. We were in the right place at the right time and have worked tirelessly since to do the right thing

[river surge]

Fair enough

[queen swallow]

There was a whole conversation about this here: #📚lore-discussion message

[river surge]

Oh well

[frigid sparrow]

strongest the traveler ever blessed
Does to vex fanatic

[ember storm]

The right person in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So, wake up, my Guardian. Wake up and smell the ashes.

[river creek]

ik theres prob not an answer to this, but did humanity lose track of time during the collapse?

[queen swallow]

I don't think so? We would've lost the accuracy of the atomic clock and probably Unix time (unless Rasputin kept it for funsies or something) but in terms of years? I don't think so. If this is a question that boils down to "what year would we be in ingame?" the answer is we don't know but probably like 2300 or so. We know this for a couple of reasons, one of which was just shown in the first reveal stream. We have confirmation of human lifespan tripling from The Speaker (so like 300 years give or take) but more pertinently, Voyager 1's location in the Edge of Fate reveal, or what appears to be Destiny's version of Voyager 1, which is accurate according to estimates from NASA on where the probe should be in 300 years from around 2012? and we know that the Traveler appeared (in universe) on the day the game launched, September 9, 2014.

[ember storm]

the golden age itself was multiple centuries

dark age as well

it's way longer than just 300 years

[queen swallow]

h

[ember storm]

drifter left the system just at the start of the city age and his voyage lasted multiple centuries

[river creek]

So humanity does not know what year it is in? Now that I think about it, it could be possible that in universe they abandoned the calendar we used, because most people very well could have lost their faith to their current religion, and based a new calendar off of the arrival of the traveler, instead of the death of Jesus. I have no evidence for this, but combined with the dark age lasting centuries it could explain why we don't know how far in the future Destiny 2 is>

[ember storm]

i mean they probably do

it's just never been stated specifically because doing so can really complicate how you write down lore

it's part of the reason why the fallout timeline is such a shitshow now

[river creek]

oh

[ember storm]

they tried introducing a very specific date which essentially ruined the timeline without a whole lot of retcons and suspenion of disbelief

[queen swallow]

1. No mention of religion within Destiny unless it's one from within the game because Bungie does not want those conversations and frankly neither do I.
2. I also think some of it just a vague "the future" because it gives them a ton of wiggle room to make shit up as waltz explained

[ember storm]

Osiris

[river creek]

doesnt osiris have a cult following?

or is it more of an ideology

that others follow

[queen swallow]

Game religion is fine because the Cult of Osiris is just video game. Jesus is problematic because it can/probably has started the conversation of Is God More Powerful Than Traveler? and that's just not a beneficial topic to the game

[ember storm]

it was a cult who revered him way beyond any normal sense but also he's literally named osiris

he at least knows about ancient egyptian religion, all trials gear is based on it

[river creek]

jesus was meant to just be an example religion, mb

[queen swallow]

Even in modern times outside the game, there are other ways of counting time than the Julian Calendar

[river creek]

i do get why they wouldn't want to say a massive religion is incorrect or correct tho

[frigid sparrow]

"was Jesus resurrected by the traveler years before it entered earth's system," a legendary discord thread deleted by moderators after 108k responses

[river creek]

serious?

[frigid sparrow]

it's a meme that I can't remember specifics of but I think it included wario

[river creek]

oh

[jagged badge]

Mia van der Venne is more than 200 years old. Change comes faster, these days, and you live to see more of it. Changes like Ismail being allowed to pray not in the real direction of Mecca but in the direction Mecca would be if it were transposed from Earth to Titan. Changes like the rise and fall and rise again of the Bray cult of personality. Like the new worlds the Traveler opens up to humanity.

This excerpt has a reference to a real religion/religious practice

[queen swallow]

I'd rather not go into religious stuff but I'll admit that I phrased my words around the topic rather poorly

[low gyro]

Interesting

Irl if you don't got anyway to know the real direction you just follow the sun