📚lore-discussion

[river surge]

U got a point here

[sleek matrix]

How many poor fallen have we snuffed out

[hard sigil]

its all in the name. a winnower. harvesting and seperating the grain from the chaff

[sleek matrix]

Which lets be honest

We have directly done

Many times

[hard sigil]

exactly my point

[sleek matrix]

The biggest example is us taking out oryx

And then witness

[ember storm]

filthy fallen rabble taking last city jobs

lakshmi was right

[sleek matrix]

[ember storm]

you know they genuinely used to call eliksni sympathizers "bug huggers"

[hard sigil]

the winnower is the nature of the universe. the purest form of sword logic.
"I am making this offer over and over again, in every tiniest cell and the vastest of civilizations. Let me in. Take what you need. Be at ease. You have no say in the degradation of your telomeres, but in all the interim, the whole world is your Sweet silicate shellfish. You exist because you have been more suited to it than all the others. Steal what you require from another rather than spend the hours to build it yourself. Break foolish rules-why would you love regulation? It serves you to cross lines, and if others needed rules to protect them, then they were not after all worthy of that existence."

[ember storm]

“I heard rumors about Guardians running away to the outer rim. Dissenters, bug-huggers, pacifists. Never gave it much thought. Surprised people like that could've stayed hidden this long.” —Shiro-4

[slow berry]

my take is that the ultimate endgame here is that humanity keeps making allies from other species and generally trying to protect and defend variety, which is ultimately the reason for the fallout at the garden

[slow berry]

Do we know who the first ever Guardian was?

[empty fern]

Wait, were the iron lords just racist?

[dim minnow]

Shiro isn't an Iron Lord, just a Vanguard Scout

[ember storm]

Also efrideet is one of the pacifists

[empty fern]

Ha

[slim girder]

I wasn't around for the year of crota but I do wonder if people were already asking who was oryx at the time when his son was a raid boss.

I came into destiny just before TTK

[ember storm]

I mean yeah the entire campaign, as shallow as it was, only ever mentioned how awful crota was and how important was that we stop his return

Then when you finally fight him in the raid it just says “Crota, Son of Oryx”

[slim girder]

They could have definitely done "Crote, Lighteater"

Again though I'm curious if lore peeps were already wondering about oryx before he appeared. As far as I know back then it was just the shrine of oryx and crotas name that mentioned oryx at all.

[queen swallow]

I mean, the second someone is named "Daughter of _" or "Son of __", they're gonna ask who the parent is

[slim girder]

Kinda wish I was there for the original mystery of destiny if that makes sense.

Just the era where absolutely nothing was known. Nowadays we have a lot of answers to things but I'm glad there's still plenty of mystery though.

[empty fern]

When crota was the biggest threat

[cloud glacier]

I watched Red War

and I gotta say

its opening and climax are really good

but the missions in the middle (the ones that involve reuniting the fireteam) are not the best

still, it’s a really solid campaign

also, I don’t think Red War is entirely unrelated to the Light & Darkness saga

[trim grotto]

Nothing is entirely unrelated, no.

[cloud glacier]

the end of Red War involves the awakening of the Traveller

[trim grotto]

True, which alerted the Black Fleet.

[cloud glacier]

yea, that

which then sends the Witness and all that on a crusade against us

I personally prefer seeing Red War (and Forsaken) as follow-ups to The Taken King

because the context behind both campaigns lie with The Taken King (much more so with Forsaken, Red War is a follow-up to The Legion Beachhead quest)

I’ll need to watch Forsaken next

and maybe CoO/Warmind

[hard sigil]

coo and warmind are more like leadups to seasons rather than the saga as a whole

[cloud glacier]

yea, ik

I just wanna watch them to see how bad CoO is

and also to see what new lore on Rasputin I’ll get to know

[trim grotto]

CoO's quality was very strongly affected by the gameplay of the time. The original Mercury map was...

Painful.

Destination with no Sparrow access. Just walking.

[cloud glacier]

no Sparrow access is painful

I would know, I’ve done patrols on the Dreadnaught in D1

[river surge]

Remember The Witness wasnt planed, they planned it later

[trim grotto]

be that as it may, it is how the story turned out
so it's a moot point

[cloud glacier]

and then they don’t show up again until Season of Arrivals

[trim grotto]

Not quite true

We had glimpses of them in the Queens Court, and there was Shadowkeep, and Season of the Worthy

[river surge]

Always wondered how The Witness homeworld looked like

We know from TFS a glimpse of it, but in rest

[hard sigil]

that one section of the pale heart strike with the pyramid architecture is a recreation of the witness's species cities judging by dialogue

[sick yew]

Of their homeworld yes

Aka Florida

[river surge]

Lol

[lyric karma]

do we have info on what entity taken have summoned as their new king

or have bungie left this part completely flat

[sick yew]

Its still a mystery

[trim grotto]

bit of a weird way to say that it's a new storyline to uncover and explore but no, we are largely in the dark

[hard sigil]

we know they're sentient at least

[sick yew]

I mean yeah

I doubt a non-sentient being could just come up with new taken

[ember storm]

im sentient

could be me

[sick yew]

You think therefore you are

[alpine haven]

what about me

i came up with new taken

and im not very sentient

[sick yew]

Then you are not

[ember storm]

its me

[alpine haven]

your the new taken king

sick

[ember storm]

taken thing

[empty fern]

Taken fling

[river surge]

They 100% did that to keep The Taken relevant for another time in the story lol

[green cobalt]

it's called the Lord of Every-Nothing

such a childish name imo

[frigid sparrow]

hop off my goat

[green cobalt]

"yeah well my character is called the lord of everynothing, so i beat your lord of everything and he has infinity plus one power"

[little gorge]

"the witness looks like megamind" ahh issue

[ember storm]

tbh you sound like a redditor who watches cinema sins

[green cobalt]

sorry for expecting better...

[ember storm]

our current primary antagonists are a number and the act of refining grain

[green cobalt]

they sound cool

[river surge]

mega mind using "I"

💔

[empty fern]

Ugh

[hard sigil]

I mean realistically, it hasn't been around that long. it is a child in a sense, an infant god

[torn narwhal]

okay so, whats going on in edge of fate

why are the nine yelling at us

[woeful bolt]

cuz they’re fat lol

[dapper moss]

the nine are actually inviting us

they have some higher plan and because they cannot take corporeal form, need us to carry it out for them

[woeful bolt]

the 5/4 split

[torn narwhal]

bruh

[queen swallow]

Are they inviting us or is Orin inviting us of her own accord? To me it sounds like the latter

[dapper moss]

sort of both

to my understanding orin needs us personally and the nine need us tangentially

[little gorge]

i understood it as the nine invited us through orin right before orin broke free

[sick yew]

Are we talking rotn or EoF rn

The former we absolutely were invited by the Nine
The latter I dont think we're sure yet but prob not

[little gorge]

i'd assume both are part of the same thing

the nine want us to prove ourselves first before calling us to kepler

[sick yew]

Possibly but not certainly so far

[queen swallow]

I feel like the main intention with Rite of the Nine is because video game but Bungie is certainly (at least on Twitter) trying to make it count as cannon. I was talking about the Edge of Fate invitation.

[grand jungle]

if savathun had the darkness could she be more dangerous then wittness?

[hard sigil]

what do you mean by the darkness

[fluid peak]

She.. did

Hive magic is darkness powered stuff

[grand jungle]

i mean stasis n strand sht

[fluid peak]

Oh definitely not

[grand jungle]

she seem to want it to kill it

us?

[hard sigil]

she was a disciple of the witness during the collapse

she had access to it for much, much longer than she's had access to the light

[fluid peak]

She didn't want the light because it would've let her kill the witness
She wanted it because being tied to darkness was literally killing her

[grand jungle]

so wittness wil prob be the most dangerous person we faced?

[fluid peak]

For a long time, yes

[grand jungle]

cept winmower or whatever

[fluid peak]

Hard to outdo someone about to turn the entire universe into stone, hmm?

[grand jungle]

isnt winmower like wittness source of power?

[fluid peak]

Eh. Kind of but not really? Unless we try to break the rules of the universe the winnower is highly unlikely to ever be considered anything close to an enemy

They just
Exist

[ember storm]

the witness was created by the precursors using the veil to meld their consciousnesses into a new entity

[slim girder]

The winnower is not inherently evil. But it's logic of the universe conflicts with our own of wanting peace instead of constant fighting for survival..

And we are the "children" of it's biggest rival in the universe and this game both of them play

[ember storm]

i mean you can be not evil but like "You're all going to die someday because I want that to happen" isnt really nice either

[dim minnow]

the Winnower is rather cynic in its ideaology

[hard sigil]

I mean it's just like. sentient entropy

[dawn rain]

are all the siva nano’s truly gone from the takens grasps

[dim minnow]

the Taken never had SIVA

[dawn rain]

my fault

[dim minnow]

did you mean the Devil Splicers?

[dawn rain]

the fallen

i get them mixed up

yup

[dim minnow]

well, it is believed that the ended the threat they posed with it

but there is a major update planned for Year of Prophecy where we return to the Plaguelands

so it is possible SIVA may become a threat once again

[hard sigil]

all the SIVA we've seen since rise of iron has been inert

most recently was when outbreak and zero hour came back

[dawn rain]

any theories on why us guardians would go back to the plague lands

[dim minnow]

probably because someone's stirring up trouble there

[hard sigil]

light eof spoilers based on what we've seen of the first mission ||The Archeon of the House of Exiles, which we will see in edge of fate on Kepler would be my most likely guess||

[slim girder]

We haven't heard archon since D1 with aksis, archon prime so I'm curious as to how the house of exiles have been faring. Only houses really left are house light and house salvation.

[hard sigil]

and Salvation is Kell-less

[slim girder]

No they have just gone with eramis to rebuild Riis.
She is still a kell even though mithrax now holds the title of Kell of kells

[hard sigil]

oh it was my understanding that she just left herself but if guess it would make sense if others joined her

[river surge]

So many houses man 😭

[queen swallow]

I think it's eleven total: Devils, Dusk, Exile, Judgment, Kings, Light, Salvation, Scar, Spider, Winter, and Wolves.

[river surge]

Oh god

So many 😭

[queen swallow]

Scar is likely dead, Judgment only has Variks, I think Winter joined to become Salvation so they're technically gone, same with Wolves. So that's three gone/reformed and one with 1 member left so down to arguably 7 Houses left

[dim minnow]

Wolves went extinct when Reksis Vahn destroyed their remaining Servitors

Devils, Kings, and Winter were the ones who teamed up to become Dusk

Exile might have also been part of it, but I'm not very sure of that

it is heavily implied that Taniks was from House Scar and it went extinct because he killed his Kell

[empty fern]

Wonder what eremis is up to, think she’ll even make a house?

[dim minnow]

you also forgot Stone

[queen swallow]

Stone?

[empty fern]

The cosmodrome kell?

[dim minnow]

no

[queen swallow]

She's off doing something with the Echo of Riis

[dim minnow]

Houe of Stone were protectors. Their Kell, Chelchis, died during the Whirlwind

[queen swallow]

And she already made House of Salvation

[dim minnow]

it is believed that Stone went extinct not long after

there's also House of Rain

[empty fern]

Wait

Who was the kell in the cosmodrome starting location ketch? In d1 I think

Or was it early d2

[dim minnow]

the House of Rain made the Kell of Kell's prophecy whixh is why House Dusk armor is actually based off of their armor

[empty fern]

Gold?

[queen swallow]

That intro mission?

[dim minnow]

there was no kell there

[queen swallow]

The one where they climb out of the wall?

[dim minnow]

you may be thinking of the Winter Kell

[empty fern]

No, was a quest afterward for like rise of iron or something

[dim minnow]

I think his name was Draksis

[queen swallow]

Draksis is House Winter

[dim minnow]

yeah, Draksis is the Winter Kell

[empty fern]

It was either stone or gold, at the VERY beginning area

You came back later
Maybe it was thunderlord wuests?

[queen swallow]

Scourge of Winter story mission?

Throne room?

[dim minnow]

can't be Stone, they're dead

[empty fern]

Nnnnno?

Holdon

[dim minnow]

and we never encountered the Kings Kell

as far as I'm aware, the only Kells we killed off in D1 were Draksis and Skolas

[empty fern]

Maybe it was an archon

There was a ketch behind us here

[queen swallow]

Craask was docked to a Dreg and then possibly killed by Fikrul

[queen swallow]

What mission is this?

[empty fern]

I forgor

But any activity where we went to the beginning and killed a fallen on a ketch, not the servitor

[dim minnow]

yeah

[dim minnow]

that was Rise of Iron

maybe it was during the exotic Khvostov quest

[empty fern]

Maybe,

[queen swallow]

time to scrub through the all cinematics videos :)

[empty fern]

There was no cutscene
Just a drop in, kill something then dip

Shift over, brb in 30

[queen swallow]

I found the Khvostov mission with the ketch but that cutscene intro thing is not a part of it

[queen swallow]

It's the Master Ives Murder Quest?!

No

[dim minnow]

there was no ketch there

[queen swallow]

The image

I can't find it

It's at least 10 years old, this is probably Beta or Alpha

It's just A Guardian Rises

Most we kill in that is Rahn, Devil Captain

That image is not in A Guardian Rises

Khvostov quest takes place in the same area, but at night

In the Khvostov one we kill Kaviss, Splicer Captain

[queen swallow]

I'mma post some photos of related Fallen that we kill

First is Rahn, second is Kaviss, and last is Kikliss, Murderer of the House of Dusk

There is also Riksis, Devil Archon

[empty fern]

None of those so far

Some unrelated d1 images

[empty fern]

It was on a ketch, in the cosmodrome, right at the starting area

[queen swallow]

The only time there is a Ketch in the Cosmodrome at the starting area is the Master Ives Murder Quest to my knowledge

[empty fern]

Show any yellow bars used in the quest

[queen swallow]

Wait

No

I don't think there's ever been one there

[empty fern]

Wha

[queen swallow]

I am trying to find it but there are so many nothingburger 5 hour long streams to comb through

[empty fern]

It’s real, trust me

[queen swallow]

It's genuinely easier to just find it by looking up the enemy names

I'm moving to my desktop cause my laptop is slow af

[queen swallow]

This guy?

[empty fern]

No

[queen swallow]

I'm making a spreadsheet of every major Fallen listed and their location to find this guy

[queen swallow]

@empty fern Now I've got it. This is the only time a Ketch has appeared in this section of the Cosmodrome. We fight Kaviss, Splicer Captain, the dude above.

[empty fern]

Hmmmm

Check destiny 2 too

[queen swallow]

At this point I am convinced you are confusing it with something else but fine

[empty fern]

Maybe that first year thunderlord quest

[queen swallow]

....

The Master Ives Murder Quest to get Thunderlord?

[empty fern]

Perhaps

Ah no

[queen swallow]

The one that is at night that I stated earlier

[empty fern]

Wasnt siva, I know that,

[queen swallow]

Thunderlord only came back with Forsaken so not Year 1

[queen swallow]

?

This guy familiar at all?

[empty fern]

It wasn’t a servitor
A captain of some kind

[queen swallow]

I know, are they familiar?

[ember storm]

Not particularly

[empty fern]

But find one in the earth ketch

[queen swallow]

[empty fern]

[ember storm]

Why are we paparazzing a bunch of random fallen

[slow berry]

bro is hallucinating and driving our local squid insane

[queen swallow]

We're trying to find one specific boss from a mission that supposedly has a Ketch in the Gateway area (starting area) of the Cosmodrome

[ember storm]

Yeah that don’t exist

[queen swallow]

EXACTLY

There is one mission with a Ketch at the Gateway and it's the Khvostov exotic quest from D1

[queen swallow]

this one

Maybe this frenetic typing is why I need to replace my keyboard because all the keys are dying of overuse

[queen swallow]

I've scoured at least 75 named captains. 6 so far are in the Cosmodrome. Breviks, Haviks, Kikliss, Ultra Captain (yes really), Bakris, and Cutlaaks.

You are quite clearly misremembering something. What that something is, I do not know

[rugged scroll]

How can I understand the whole of destinys lore quicklyv

[queen swallow]

https://youtu.be/zzBmOeYmN_M?si=cwsSJeW5UN9q6qWe

Here ya go

or theres https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k970tSgnuo

[queen swallow]

^

[dim minnow]

that was D2Y2

[queen swallow]

There is no other quest for Thunderlord I know of

[empty fern]

[queen swallow]

[queen swallow]

?

[slow berry]

what the fuck is this pretelease ass screenshot

[queen swallow]

^ all to find this one guy that probably doesn't exist or is misremembered

[empty fern]

No

ON A KETCH

[slow berry]

okay buddy

[queen swallow]

THERE ARE NO KETCHES IN THAT AREA OF THE COSMODROME

[slow berry]

i'm pretty sure you were just thinking about the d1 khvostov quest and misremembering

[empty fern]

YES THERE ARE

[empty fern]

Send a pic of the boss for that one part

[queen swallow]

There is one and it is apparently not the one you are thinking of

[queen swallow]

I have

[empty fern]

It’s not siva

ITS NOT SIVA

[queen swallow]

Its this guy

He's the boss for that quest

Then you are vastly misremembering something

[empty fern]

IM NOT CRAZY
theres a pre siva ketch at that one cosmodrome spot, you go back there to kill a house of kings or stones archon

[slow berry]

you uhhhhhh dont

[empty fern]

I remember cause he was different from the usual devils and dusk houses

Atleast name wise

[queen swallow]

I am going through them. Its just not real

[empty fern]

Im gonna smite you

[queen swallow]

Thankfully I'm an atheist so I don't believe in smitings

[slow berry]

ashckshcshkhsckshkhkcshkcshhskchskchskually skolas is alive as of revenant

[queen swallow]

Don't we kill him again?

It's so fucking hard to keep track of all of them

[slow berry]

he is heard laughing again after you leave the arena

and if you stay in the arena after a while the totem revives him and he becomes undamageable

[queen swallow]

There are 206 "important" Fallen

[empty fern]

Im going crazy

[queen swallow]

House of Stone doesn't exist in-game as an enemy you can fight

[empty fern]

What about kings, anyone besides the 3 in the one mission?

[queen swallow]

There is, currently on my list, 1 (one) captain that is or was in the Cosmodrome that is House Kings: The Ultra Captain.

I will post a copy of the sheet when I'm done if you want

It's so hard to piece out the actual meaning of things. Sometimes like Captain, Baron, and Archon are all used seemingly interchangeably but then other times they're strictly not

[queen swallow]

?

[slow berry]

An archon was supposed one of the head engineer people I think?

[dim minnow]

Archon Priests are like attendants to the Prime Servitor of a House

since Fallen worshipped Servitors

[queen swallow]

Three high ranking terms, supposedly: Kell, Archon, and Prime Servitor. Respectively thought of as War, Priest, and Prophet?

[dim minnow]

a Baron is basically a step above a Captain

[empty fern]

Warpriest prophet? Yeah I think oryx made him do that

[slow berry]

I did know that but also they do the tech stuff, right? Because they have the god-as-the-machine thing going on

[queen swallow]

But not a different, like, character model

[dim minnow]

Scorn Barons were more unique, but yeah

[trim grotto]

Being the one who takes care of the Prime Servitor also means they have to be rather apt in its repairs, so yeah, they know their way around tech.

[dim minnow]

though Splicers are the specialists when it comes to tech

[queen swallow]

Either of you have any idea what Bessus is talking about/looking for?

[slow berry]

they are looking for something that doesn't exist

[hard sigil]

they are, they serve under the Archon

[slow berry]

unless something happened during season of the plunger or whatever it was that i'm not aware of

[queen swallow]

That's what I think too, but I'm not certain, nor do I have a disproof

[trim grotto]

What would Bessus be after

[queen swallow]

#📚lore-discussion message

Whoever this is

[slow berry]

"A Kell that existed in a Ketch in the starting Cosmodrome area"

[ember storm]

if an item doesnt appear in our records, then it doesnt exist

[queen swallow]

I'm currently trying to put together a disproof of it by just detailing every Fallen I can in a spreadsheet until one matches or it doesn't

[slow berry]

https://tenor.com/view/obiwan-starwars-gif-8363651

Could they be thinking of the big boss in the area in the cosmodrome you could glitch into?

They had Kings banners and was eventually used in The Taken King I think

oh i think you have it already, the ultra captain

[queen swallow]

I've got about 100 Fallen listed so far. None of them match

[empty fern]

:3

[queen swallow]

I will take your paragon for this >:)

[empty fern]

I’ll smuggle it back or something

[queen swallow]

[empty fern]

Oryxed

[queen swallow]

I have all 206 Fallen I can get my grubby little mitts on located. 34 of them are in the Cosmodrome. Only 19 of those 34 are Captains. Most of them are not located in the correct area, nor are they Kells, and the rest have all been discounted.

[empty fern]

Im on mobile, link no work :3

[queen swallow]

Why you gotta snail me

[queen swallow]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dpK1LWgnTl11B-OG_ikmXFImg9Gk_GDpz2Zqun-thDs/copy?usp=sharing

I'm pretty sure this won't dox me

If it does, I'll delete it and you'll just have to wait

It doesn't, neat

[slow berry]

hear for ages that they never explain the veil or what was going on in neomuna
play lightfall
theres a mission literally explaining everything in neomuna

huh

[hard sigil]

everyone knows destiny players can't sit in an empty room and listen to audio logs without completely zoning out

[slow berry]

its such good sci-fi too

[hard sigil]

it is! the veil is a VERY cool concept

[frigid sparrow]

which mission specifically

[hard sigil]

unveiled I assume

[frigid sparrow]

the critique with unveiled was that it specifically only came out in season of the deep and had the weekly logs that went over like 10 whole weeks

which of course is meaningless to lightfall itself because this is information we know now and hindsight is key

lightfall itself still doesn't give an explanation on the veil besides its connection to the cloudark (which is why the cloudstriders are defending it) but its history with the traveler as revealed in the ahsa cutscene and its history in neomuna and maya's experiments are both post-lightfall lore dumps that generally annoyed a lot of people

[raven glen]

Question getting the exotic barrow-dyad wat the heck was that creature according to wat i said jt seem too powerful to defeat that we had to seal it away how come id thought at our power level we could defeat it but we sealed it away

[hard sigil]

the Knight?

[raven glen]

Yuuh that knight boss

[hard sigil]

it was a knight that challenged Oryx, (barely) lost but refused to be taken, as it claimed that it was too easy of a path to greater power. this refusal kinda split it into two: the taken half and the not taken half. in the mission we kill the non-taken half, which the taken half absorbs and uses to become more powerful. at least that's how I understand what went down

and we just lock it back up because it'd be easier than taking it down

[slow berry]

totally not coming back to bite us

[raven glen]

So basically two personality OG DIES fakey absorbs bro becomes too strong to deal with just stay in naughty jail basement

[hard sigil]

surely it won't become a dungeon / raid encounter if the Lord of Every Nothing becomes relevant

[trim grotto]

Power is relative, my friend. We were in their stronghold, their home.

[raven glen]

Tbh knowing bungie it will be forgotten lmaooo i havent been catching up with destiny updates but it be cool to see it again as a raid boss

[raven glen]

But but i need circle smg go brrrrrr

[trim grotto]

Forgotten may not be quite accurate. The Dreadnaught is decaying, collapsing. Eventually it may break free... or may die, as it collapses into the depths of open space.

[hard sigil]

or escape into the ascendant plane or something

[raven glen]

Untill bungie decides to reuse the content😂 anything possible

[frigid sparrow]

Sloane says the hive magic in the room is "part airlock" and we return to the area in court of blades, so Xir Kuur is likely dead until bungie says so (then again, taken "death," so)

[hard sigil]

what I took from the dialogue is that it's "airlocked" to the ascendant plane

to keep Xir from getting out

[spice rain]

did they ever clarify what the radial mass and veil was or did they just gloss over lightfall in the lore

[dim minnow]

Radial Mast is presumably something the Witness' Precursors created in the distant past, though this is more of a theory
The Veil is the Dark counterpart to the Traveler

and it is very likely to be a missing part of the Gardener/Traveler

since there are a few bits of lore that indicate that the Traveler and Veil were once united

[trim grotto]

The Veil has an entire series of missions for it

Check the left side of the Neomuna map

[slim girder]

Still have my theory that the veil was like a branch and the traveler a fruit. Just something about the shape of the 2 entities makes me think both were one and a part of something bigger. Like pre big bang old.

Hell maybe even something related to the giant tree stump in the black garden.

[river surge]

I think that too

[ancient jewel]

anyone got a theory on where oryx’s body went from rite of the nine or was it just a mini EE?

[slim girder]

Trying to speculate what sort of raid we'll get in edge of fate. I'd assume it'd be on Kepler as most new raids save for RoN happen on the newest destination for an expansion.
We have fallen wielding strand which would definitely make for some interesting encounters with a raid and we haven't had a fallen raid since DSC.
However I'm also curious about what the vex might be up to on Kepler and they have new units. We also haven't had a vex raid since GoS so maybe bungie could finally give us another vex raid.

[slim girder]

It's not anything huge. Just part of the event.

Oryxs body was secured by us and ikoras hidden.

[ancient jewel]

yeah once we came back from GOTD ik but i found that a little weird

[slim girder]

Ghosts of the deep isn't featured and that's why it got removed. Happened with spire as well

[ancient jewel]

ah so it’s a mini easter egg

[slim girder]

Not an easter egg just part of the event really. Lil aesthetic choice to visually show which dungeon is featured

[hard sigil]

it just shows what dungeon is in rotation yeab

[polar coral]

Hey so I’m playing through Shadowkeep rn

Last time I tried playing destiny

There was this campaign they started you in

Where your on mars fighting against those legion guys

And it was a red war or something

Is that not canon? I can’t seem to play it

[trim grotto]

It's all canon.

;dcv

[candid inlet]

Destiny Content Vault [(DCV)](#1019968437847593051 message)
Starting November 10, 2020 old content was vaulted because Bungie updated the scripting engine. All activities had to be re-coded and ported over. Content with low playtime (Spire of Stars, Levithan, etc.) was vaulted to save resources and time.

Note: In the 2022 Destiny 2 Showcase, Bungie announced they will no longer vault/sunset Expansions. Seasonal activities will still leave at the end of a Content Year.

• DCV Guide courtesy of Bree.
• Bungie's Guide/Article with full description, along with a list of content vaulted.

[polar coral]

Ok so was that story I was talking about like

The beginning?

Cause I remember it being the first thing you did

[trim grotto]

It was the original campaign of vanilla D2

[polar coral]

Ok!

I do t remember all the details but

How much stuff happens in between that and Shadowkeep?

[trim grotto]

Red War, Curse of Osiris, Warmind, Forsaken, and a few Seasons.
Red War was the loss of Light and reawakening (and damaging) of the Traveler, Curse of Osiris we met Osiris, Warmind was the awakening of Rasputin, the AI Warmind of the Golden Age, Forsaken was the death of Cayde-6, the Hunter Vanguard, and us getting revenge on the insane Uldren Sov and Scorn who killed him.
One of the Seasons had us meet Drifter for the first time.
That should hit the important notes, though of course there's a lot of deeper details.

Dova wrote up a big old recap in the pins

[dim minnow]

On Mars?

That would be Witch Queen

We don't go to Mars during the Red War

[hard sigil]

whether we wanted it or not...

[dim minnow]

Though, we did fight Red Legion on Mars in Warmind which was in the same year of content

[polar coral]

https://youtu.be/z3nhwWAT8Hs?si=m75eI5XEZ_sN62U2

Currently listening

These Cabal guys sound cool

I think I saw a few back at the tower

Are they like hired mercenaries?

[queen swallow]

No

[sleek matrix]

There our allies

[polar coral]

Well hold on

[sleek matrix]

Caiatl cabal

[polar coral]

The video is talking about how these guys are like galatic conquerer bad guys

Oh

[queen swallow]

There are different factions, or legions following the Roman theming. The ones in the tower are in Caiatl's Legion and support us essentially. None, if any, of the other Legions really support us

[polar coral]

OH

Hold on I think I got it, so the Cabal got fractured, the big white guy who is the villain of the red campaign tries reuniting them, we kill him.

This Caiatl woman fled their Homeworld because of a Hive ascendent and in doing so

She’s chill like that?

And she allies up with us

[sleek matrix]

There was a coup and then gaul got in power

He then tried to take the traveler but was stopped

Then eventually caiatl arrived and we formed an alliance

[polar coral]

That’s cool, kinda wish I could play as a cabal

Or uh

I don’t wanna call em the space slur

Ixilani?

[queen swallow]

Eliksni

Fallen works too

[polar coral]

Isn’t that the space slur we gave them?

[dim minnow]

They kinda gave it to themselves in a way

Though that more applies to Eliksni who oppose us

[hard sigil]

Caiatl is the daughter of the last emperor of the Cabal, Calus. she led the Midnight Coup against him alongside Ghaul and usurped him. Ghaul and his Red Legion were sent to Sol to capture the traveller. We killed him, the Red Legion fell into shambles and lost most of its contact with the larger empire, then Caiatl fled Torobatl because of Xivu Arath, the Hive Goddess of War. This eventually leads to her coming to Sol, and after a whole Trial of Proving thing, forming an alliance with the Last City

[polar coral]

Oh it’s a shame they vaulted it, I kinda wanna start from the beginning but Shadowkeep is fine I guess

Ghaul sounds cool

[hard sigil]

there are still Red Legion who operate as a rogue element by themselves, but most of the existing cabal in the system are under caiatls command

[polar coral]

So the cabal I kill are rebels and the cabal in our city are allies

Got it

[hard sigil]

if they're wearing blue they're chill. unless you're doing a battleground from Chosen

[dim minnow]

So basically, as John stated, Ghaul became "Dominus" (pretty much Emperor) after the previous Emperor, Calus, was exiled. Then some time later, Ghaul came to Sol and started the Red War which ended with us killing him. So then Caiatl took over as Empress and eventually arrived here because the Cabal homeworld, Torobatl, was ransacked by the Hive. Her goal was to gather whatever troops remained in Sol and while she was an enemy to us at first, we managed to lay the groundwork for what would later turn into an alliance.

[polar coral]

I know Jack shit about this universe and I’m like 45 minutes deep in the video, already the HIVE seems like the real big bads

[queen swallow]

They basically are

[hard sigil]

the Hive are the main threat for a lot of destiny's history

[dim minnow]

Basically Red Legion remnants or deserters and Shadow Legion are our Cabal enemies

[polar coral]

Every other enemy faction seems like a sentient race we could come to some sort of allyship with, but the hive are just straight up like capital E evil

So far

I’m on the robot guys right now

[hard sigil]

for reasons you'll come to understand in Witch Queen

[polar coral]

Vex

[hard sigil]

the vex are my favourite :)

[dim minnow]

The Vex there's no chance of an alliance with

[polar coral]

Really? Is it cause their like grand plan for the universe doesn’t allow that

[hard sigil]

yes

[polar coral]

Their thing seemingly seems to be like adherence to some kind of grand data script

[dim minnow]

Vex want everything in the Universe to be Vex

[hard sigil]

the main goal of the vex is to make everything that isn't vex, vex

[polar coral]

Ok so Vex aren’t chill like that

[dim minnow]

No

They ain't

[hard sigil]

they're quite vexing

[polar coral]

I wonder if you play an Exo do you get different dialogue with Vex? Cause like…brother from another motherboard

[hard sigil]

the vex don't really get dialogue

[ember storm]

vex dont speak at all

[dim minnow]

Nothing much really, just Red War Era scannable dialogue

[ember storm]

there are slight dialogue differences in Beyond Light where being an exo is relevant to the location

[polar coral]

Oh that’s a shame

[hard sigil]

and exos were actually created using vex tech :)

[ember storm]

they weren't

[hard sigil]

well they were stabilised

[ember storm]

they were made with a sterilized version of vex milk

no tech

[dim minnow]

More like Vex Milk reduced to its base state

[ember storm]

exo bodies are purely a manmade creation

[hard sigil]

I'm simplifying

[ember storm]

vex blood is turned into exo blood

that's simple

[polar coral]

Neat

[hard sigil]

I don't want to dump the whole radiolaria thing on someone out of nowhere

[sleek matrix]

Using vex milk direct turns you into vex

[ember storm]

just need to remember that vex milk is their entire nervous system including brain housed entirely in a liquid form

[polar coral]

Alright boys I’m on the taken now

[sleek matrix]

They had to use a process that would work for exo

[ember storm]

taken aren't a race of their own but the video will probably go over that

[polar coral]

Oh

OH SHIR

I JUST FOUGHT HIM

HOLD ON

[sleek matrix]

Taken are basically beings hollowed out

[hard sigil]

yeah oryx was That Guy

[sleek matrix]

Anyone can be taken

[polar coral]

I was doing Shadowkeep and at the end is this weird fucking shadow thing

[ember storm]

except guardians but only kinda

[polar coral]

And his name was

Yadda yadda

[ember storm]

oryx isnt in shadowkeep

[polar coral]

Son of Oryx

[ember storm]

Crota is his son yes

[hard sigil]

Crota is Oryxs son

[polar coral]

Holy shit nice, all coming together

[ember storm]

his resume includes:

The Hope-Eater
The Monster of Luna
The God-Knight
Light-Destroyer
Son of Navigation
Sword of Pits
Worldbreaker
Breaker of Worlds
Prince of Annihilation```

[hard sigil]

Crota killed like a few thousand guardians on the moon

or was it just hundreds

[polar coral]

Idk man this witch queen intelligent hive lady seems cooler and I know jack shit about her

[hard sigil]

Savvy goat

[polar coral]

Is Oryx the one who’s fucking up the cabal Homeworld rn?

[sleek matrix]

That was xivu

[polar coral]

I know it’s like one

[hard sigil]

That's Xivu, his sister

[polar coral]

Hive person

[ember storm]

Oryx is long dead

[sleek matrix]

With assistance from savathun

[ember storm]

they're all hive

they're members of the royal family

[polar coral]

Do I get to kick Xivu’s ass at any point?

[hard sigil]

She's not in Sol

[polar coral]

Oh yea

[hard sigil]

but she's making her way here

[ember storm]

she's preparing for war

[hard sigil]

slowly

[sleek matrix]

Xivu is far away

[ember storm]

and she's literally their god of war

[polar coral]

Yea which sounds awesome

[hard sigil]

makes fighting her hard

any direct act of war makes her stronger

[sleek matrix]

The best way would be a quick strike on xivu

[polar coral]

In lore taken sounds awesome, in game this just sounds like assets being reused?

[hard sigil]

sabotage, Guerilla tactics

[polar coral]

Am I correct?

[ember storm]

what?

[hard sigil]

I mean technically it's also assets being reused in lore

[ember storm]

they're very specifically different in form and function

[hard sigil]

taken enemies function different from their non-taken counterparts

[ember storm]

they all have unique animations

[polar coral]

Idk man the pictures he’s showing on screen just look like the regular races but shadow-ey

[hard sigil]

they aren't just recolours

[polar coral]

I haven’t fought one yet

[ember storm]

because they're pictures

that's

what pictures do

they dont move

[sleek matrix]

U need to play the game you will see

[dim minnow]

Yeah it was more like hundreds

[polar coral]

Ok well screenshots of the game tend to look pretty similar to you know

The game

[sleek matrix]

Doesn't show the full scope of the game

Thou

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/taken-destiny-gif-8201298340875252367

[dim minnow]

It's hard to see, but there are some cosmetic differences

[hard sigil]

fighting taken thrall is much more troublesome than normal thrall

[dim minnow]

Also gameplay differences

Dire Taken are more different cosmetically

[polar coral]

There’s dragons?

[sleek matrix]

There was

[polar coral]

Wasn’t expecting that

[hard sigil]

were

[polar coral]

Sorry were

[hard sigil]

we've got like 2-5 unhatched eggs

[polar coral]

This wish dragon made fallen get necromancied, made scorn.

[ember storm]

the most corrupted of taken get physical growths and mutations

like my boy morgeth

anyway heres this

https://youtu.be/Cpw9wWM-UN4?si=mnSN9kPCscaPvWsm&t=1

[polar coral]

The scorn sound neat

[sleek matrix]

There pretty annoying to fight

[polar coral]

Favorite enemies rn are Cabal

[hard sigil]

they're zombies ! kinda

[polar coral]

Least fav are Taken (tentatively)

[ember storm]

scorn are definitely the worst to fight in general

[sleek matrix]

Hive is probably the most well established faction

[polar coral]

They fr are the most threatening

Sorta reminds me of Tyranids off the top of my head

[hard sigil]

space bugs are space bugs

[ember storm]

i mean in concept they're the most directly opposed to us

but they're very much a sentient race of people

slaughter is literally just their way of life

it's their religion

[hard sigil]

they will literally die without it

[sleek matrix]

There basically a death cult

[polar coral]

If they don’t

They get eaten out by their space worm

Idk

At a certain point I can see the pragmatic response

Kill or be killed

[hard sigil]

no yeah that's pretty much right

[ember storm]

yeah but the point is none of them are sad about it

it is their entire purpose, they enjoy it

Savathun never gave up her worm because she was regretful or didnt like having to kill people, she just didnt want to bother with it and tried cheesing the system which backfired on her

[hard sigil]

"...by killing their enemies, the Hive prove that they are stronger than that enemy, and through the Sword Logic gain that strength in reality."

it's survival of the fittest taken to its furthest interpretation

if you cannot prove your strength by killing, you will be killed

[polar coral]

Damn so the scorn killing Cayde

Set off a ton of shit

Also the leader being reborn a guardian is weird is it not?

[hard sigil]

Uldren? not particularly

he was eligible

[ember storm]

literally all you need to be is a vaguely humanoid corpse at this point

Uldren was never a leader for the scorn, he never planned to do anything with them

they were just a means to an end to get him back to the dreaming city

[dim minnow]

As far as we know, Hive and Humanity (Awoken, Exo, Human) are the only species that can be rezzed

[ember storm]

fikrul only revered him because he believed his dark ether powers came from uldren directly, he had no idea about riven or the wish

becoming a guardian doesnt require any judge of character or ability

mortal Cayde was more than willing to shoot at a child, so

also Shin was literally an infant baby when he got rezzed

[hard sigil]

ideally you become an entirely new person when you're risen

[polar coral]

Guardians remind me a lot of Stormcast from AOS

[empty fern]

Nuh uh

Get banished

[cedar stream]

I've been thinking

since osiris || doesn't have a ghost anymore like the floating thing he's gonna die earlier than saint-14? he already seems old enough like a fossil ||

[trim grotto]

He's in his fifties. But, yes. He will age now.

[slim girder]

Aren't him and Zavala like 50-60 in regular human years but as guardians a couple centuries?

If so they still got plenty of time. Maybe not anymore fighting but still a lot of wisdom and tactical knowledge

I'm just going of visual observation of the 2. They really give me over 50 years old kind of vibes

[trim grotto]

I don't know about Zavala, but that is what I meant about Osiris, yes. He's in his fifties, age wise.

Like physical age

In reality he is centuries old

[hard sigil]

awoken have longer lifespans anyway iirc

but I guess we all would if we lived in a black hole

[dim minnow]

it's weird that humans in the Last City just casually live with Exos and Awoken who straight up live longer than them

then again there is the human lifespan tripled thing

[hard sigil]

I doubt that it stayed that way

I think it was more of a healthcare and science thing than magically humans can be 180 now

[sick yew]

In terms of narrative people might aswell live forever

[trim grotto]

I'm fairly confident that isn't the case any longer outside of exceptional cases such as the Speaker. The use of generations has been too common, I think, to be anything otherwise.

[sick yew]

Isnt Eva like really really old too?

[trim grotto]

I can't think of anything off the top of my head suggesting she's not just regular old.

But if you recall something?

[sick yew]

Wasnt there a record that she had seen the dark ages?

Aka been around since pre-collapse ish

[trim grotto]

Pre Collapse?

[sick yew]

Could have sworn so
Might be misremebering things

Havent brushed up on Eva lore in a while

[trim grotto]

Pre Collapse would mean she was a Golden Age survivor

[sick yew]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

The Golden Age was anywhere from like 300 years to 2000 years ago

[sick yew]

I know Mael

Thats why I said the whole "humans got way older since the golden age onward" always felt more like a fix to not mess with the timeline of non lightbearers existing despite the rather wonky timeframe between Collapse and D1

[trim grotto]

I... don't think either of those are the case

[sick yew]

Oh well

[ember storm]

the only reason the speaker lived so long was because of intrinsic old man politician buff that inhumanely increases lifespan beyond normal capabilities

[jagged badge]

That’s not something that applies post-Collapse

I recall someone mentioning Amanda having a line along the lines of “I can’t imagine anyone who isn’t a Guardian living that long”

[ember storm]

Thus, the above explanation for the speaker

[fluid peak]

Eva does something similar in that she sucks the holiday cheer right outta you by making you grind bounties for just a smidgen of bright dust

[little gorge]

little does she know i don't care because i have way more than i need

[ember storm]

Never thought you’d live to see the darkness return

[frigid sparrow]

each cookie made is another year of eva's life span granted.
get to baking, guardians. for grandma.

[fluid peak]

If the witness made the final shape real only Eva would remain

[sick yew]

Eva would have clutched had we failed in FS

[fluid peak]

The witness cannot handle her secret powers of mirth and good will
She would simply blast it away with her Holiday Beam ™️ but she wanted to let the guardians have their fun

[slim girder]

I want grandma Eva to come back as a shader and emblem vendor like in D1. I know in the lore she loves colours and making clothes.

[eager trout]

Eva would single-handedly prove the Witness wrong

[empty fern]

Like an old lady refusing to believe cashews are real

[ember storm]

what

[void depot]

This feels really specific

[cloud glacier]

Eva Levante my beloved

[empty fern]

Trying to play on “old lady doesn’t believe in something therefore shes right” gimmick with the witness

[void depot]

No I get that, but cashews specifically? Do you know someone who doesn't believe in cashews?

[empty fern]

I couldn’t think of anything else at that moment besides fake moon landing

[tiny goblet]

have they explained how echoes work or do they just do that

[ember storm]

In terms of what

They’re memories formed through darkness made into physical objects via light

[tiny goblet]

ok yeah that makes sense

i didnt know if the traveler just does that sometimes or what

like spitting out a bunch of ghosts

[blazing wasp]

it happened because the witness died

[ember storm]

It was made pretty clear it only happened because of the witness itself and trying to pry open the traveler’s heart

[dim minnow]

the Echoes were created by the clash between our Light and the Witness' Darkness when it was unmade

[trim grotto]

the Echoes were created when the Witness went "aauuurrgh" as it fell and the sound went all woobly

[slim girder]

Was going through some old lore and I completely forgot that there's lore from season of the splicer about an eliksni stumbling upon 2 city citizens getting busy in an alleyway.

And the way it's described by that eliksni is just funny.

[frigid sparrow]

Y'know what I'll take that over the hate crimes from the season

[dim minnow]

I think that was Eido

[slim girder]

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was considering her curiosity with everything.

"Pressing their auxiliary orifices together"

[clever hill]

Favourite bit of lore and why

[sick yew]

Mechaneers Tricksleeves

Karl the Titan

Legend amongs his entire class

Who is he? Karl
What is he? Titan
What does he do? Bouncer

[trim grotto]

I'm fond of the lore tab of the Chaperone. It kicks off Amanda's story, but also reminds us that for all our power, Guardians are vulnerable. Glass cannons, and our Ghosts are more fragile than many people think.

[sick yew]

'[...]will be introduced to our bouncer. Who is a Titan. A very big one. Named Karl. [...]'

Oh yeah also Salvagers Salvo for the simple reason that it includes me :)

[clever hill]

Was Osiris a bad dude

What happened to him

[sick yew]

He lives in the last city with Saint

Hes just chilling these days

Whether he was a bad dude depends on who you ask

[clever hill]

Do you prefer him or the other one (I forgor her name I haven’t played much and I haven’t played for a while)

[sick yew]

Saint-14? His Husband?

[clever hill]

No

[trim grotto]

"The Other One" is... nondescript

[clever hill]

The other warlock vanguard

[trim grotto]

Ikora Rey?

[sick yew]

Ikora

[clever hill]

Yeah her

[sick yew]

I mean theyre vastly different characters, hard to compare imo

[trim grotto]

I can't say I prefer either over the other. They're... yeah, what Alex said.

Osiris wasn't a bad guy. He was in his time as Vanguard, obsessed and self centred, selfish, and ignored plights caused by his actions. However, his obsessions were of a desire to halt the Vex, whom he believed to be a universal threat.

Osiris has since grown significantly as a person, mind you.

[hard sigil]

he was exiled for a little bit because the speaker thought his teachings and research into the vex was dangerous

[sick yew]

"a little bit"

[hard sigil]

in the grand scheme of things

[slim girder]

The weapons of sorrow and dredgen yors/shin malphurs legacy of using dark weapons for good.

[trim grotto]

That, and his inaction to do his job or deal with the cult.

[sick yew]

He got exiled around like early to mid ish city age a good while before D1 itself and wouldnt return until CoO

[clever hill]

He sounds kinda lazy

I heard he was pretty powerful

[trim grotto]

He wasn't lazy. He didn't think it was worth his time. His obsessions had him so focused on his work that he left duties to the wayside, but he was always working.

[blazing wasp]

Power scaling is a fruitless endeavour in D2, but it's not irrational to call osiris the strongest or among them

Well, before he lost the light

[trim grotto]

He was almost certainly one of the most powerful Warlocks of his time.

These days, of course, he has no Ghost, no Light, but he has grown as a person and he has overcome his obsessions and acts as an advisor to the Vanguard.

[clever hill]

I know another guy who lost his ghost :(

Wonder why all the other ghosts have names and ours is just…ghost

[hard sigil]

he practically reverse engineered time travel with the sundial

[trim grotto]

We simply haven't named him. Therein lies the realm of headcanon.

Ours isn't the only one unnamed, though. Tyra Karn never named her Ghost, and Ghost is all he is known as to this day. She has been trying to convince him to name himself.

[hard sigil]

ghost prefers ghost as his name

at least opposed to any nicknames other characters have given him

[trim grotto]

In reality it's the same reason why we're barely a personality. It's the blank slate headcanon thing we've got going on. Name your own Ghost.

[clever hill]

Fair enough then lol

[hard sigil]

I still haven't found a name I like for mine

[queen swallow]

Impossible to accurately voice line every single name people could come up with for their ghost. That said, it’s also possible to have given us some options, like different classes, to have picked from. Then again, it’s just easier to have one default.

[trim grotto]

Crescendo 🙂

[hard sigil]

oh that's a good one

[clever hill]

Huh if we’re naming

Maybe Rebound for mine

My warlock is a prism one and yk…light rebounds off prisms

[ember storm]

Wheatley From Portal™️ 2

[sick yew]

[empty fern]

I’ll eat you alive

Bitch

[dim minnow]

whar?

[empty fern]

Brings it back

Some guy saying “hey im ####” in all the channels

[empty fern]

Oh they did it in EVERY channel, just look up “marko”

[ember storm]

And so they were forever lost in the corridors of time

[slim girder]

Can we have stuff like this back? I miss the cool side text when doing certain things in destiny

[empty fern]

(Nah it’s in pet channels rn)

[eager trout]

Portal crossover with a Wheatley Ghost

[dim minnow]

you mean like when the text is below your radar?

[slim girder]

No i mean above your HUD. Like "guardians make their own fate"

[dim minnow]

oh that

yeah we need a new one of those that goes hard

we always have that, but none of it really stands out like that one does

[slow berry]

"Guardians wield the edge of fate" incoming fr fr

[ember cliff]

whats with tiny mouse on eternity?

[slow berry]

for the cats

[dim minnow]

there's a mouse?

[ember cliff]

Yeah next to the chest you use the manifolds on you take the boost pad up to the floating island and there is a mouse in the middle of the black sand

[trim grotto]

Probably a star cat joke. We saw some in... Defiance.

[dim minnow]

Wish

[restive agate]

Whats with the hands / skulls in the enclave?

Is there a lore thing or is this gameplay thing

[queen swallow]

iirc it's a quest thingy that was supposed to be removed but wasn't

[restive agate]

ahhh okay

[dim minnow]

it was part of a post-campaign series of quests you got from Micah for TFS

lore-wise, it is the FInal Shape manifesting outside of the Pale Heart

[restive agate]

makes sense, thank you Lore Joker and good to see you again

[dim minnow]

there are a few other areas where you can see this

[empty trout]

AFAIK while Xivu Arath may have been severed from her Throne World, she's still the Hive God of War and is still collecting tithes. Is there anything stopping her from forming another Throne World with enough tithes?

Is that permitted with Hive Magic?

[hard sigil]

dont think you can more than one throne world

it'd be like splitting your soul in two I guess

[queen swallow]

Horcrux style?

[frigid sparrow]

Y'know where did xivu even go

[slow berry]

She didnt go anywhere

She's coming

[hard sigil]

she has never been in Sol herself

[slow berry]

She just hasn't gotten here yet

[queen swallow]

Torobatl

[frigid sparrow]

Then what the fuck was that creature attacking us on the dreadnaught

[hard sigil]

shes doing that Adam Warlock gif through the ascendant plane towards us

[queen swallow]

Not Xivu

[hard sigil]

the Voice of Xivu Arath is just a big knight

[slow berry]

cant we beat xivi by beating her anyway

[frigid sparrow]

Act 3 cutscene

[slow berry]

like yeah she gets stronger with war but what if we get esoterickk to solo onephase her or smth

[hard sigil]

a projection using hive magic I dunno

same kinda thing she used to cloak Torobatl if I had to guess

[frigid sparrow]

That "projection" left a massive fucking sword in the dreadnaught

[hard sigil]

it's magic dw about it

[sick yew]

Morning lore nerds

[vale cradle]

Hey, the woman that popped out in this trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buh6WERf-zY) is Drifter's girlfriend, right?
Am I remembering it correctly?
Or is this a completely different person (that we don't know)?

[queen swallow]

No

Eris is Drifter's... partner? Romantic interest?

The woman in the video is Orin

She is dumping her job as The Emissary

[ember storm]

They held hands and smooched so

[queen swallow]

That's still a nebulous area

As far as titles and whatnot go

[empty fern]

[slow berry]

Drifter is first consort to hive goddess eris morn

[empty fern]

Drifter may experience darkblade fate

[frigid sparrow]

they're roommates

[slim girder]

That is orin. Her and drifter did have a thing long ago but it definitely wasn't as deep as what he has now with Eris.

[analog torrent]

Does anyone have a link to the recording of this radio message? Someone asked Mara about why she loved Sjur and she said some really intense shit like I could list reasons until the stars burned out. We do not love rationally, we just love

[analog torrent]

They dated (implied) briefly way back before Orin was an emissary. Drifter's snake symbol for gambit is based on her.

Sauce: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/illicit-reaper-mark

There might be more evidence in the Ecdysis lorebook but I haven't read it in 200 years 💤

[analog torrent]

nvm got it, not the video just the quote
"Petra Venj: Just one. What did you love about her?

Mara Sov: I could list reasons until Sol burned out, but they would be… lacking in complete truth. We do not love rationally. We just love. "

[queen swallow]

https://www.destinypedia.com/H.E.L.M From Season of the Wish, "Mara and Petra chat"

Or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOltyuMbYCE

It's toward the end

[frigid sparrow]

a major interpretation is how the darkness, vaguely speaking, had stopped savathun (and by extension, her sisters and the rest of the krill) from being chosen by the light. I say vaguely since darkness/pyramid can be used kinda interchangeably in many cases due to how similar they are in story

and also just the general opposition that savvy has had with the darkness

[fallow nest]

Big thank you

[frigid sparrow]

it's honestly the only kinda weird truth since it's so vague as to what it could mean

like, yeah, the hive worship the darkness and the worms, the guardians did kill the witness, the pyramid is stopping savathun from entering

[vale cradle]

Do we know if the Nine are more powerful than the Traveller?

[empty fern]

Dunno

[slow berry]

cant wait for the eris-meets-drifter's-ex season its gonna be really funny

[analog torrent]

type shit

[slim girder]

Will probs look something like this.

Replace caiatl with eris, Zavala with drifter and Zavalas nightmare with Orin.

[frigid sparrow]

eris would not be the jealous type she'd never

now, if orin tried to talk up drifter in any way, she would probably ask if she's returned as an actual risen with a ghost before promptly trust-ing her

[dim minnow]

I mean, Orin already had someone she loved

Namqi

granted he's dead

[trim grotto]

The Nine, for all their mystery, are not paracausal entities.

So, no. I would imagine not.

Not to mention that the Traveler is a terraformer by nature. It can manipulate and change that which gives the Nine their "body".

[slim girder]

The nine are much older than the traveler though so I wonder if they know anything about its origins or just more about it in general because even after the final shape the traveler is still a pretty big enigma just like the veil.

[queen swallow]

Considering that the Traveler came from outside the solar system, and the Nine are very much tied to the solar system, I doubt they know much about it's origins. I could be wrong though.

[dim minnow]

pretty sure the Traveler is older

it's been around since before the Witness was born

and given that the Traveler is the Gardener, it probably predates our universe

[slim girder]

In the reveal stream for EoF i believe it was that one lady who loves destiny lore who said that the nine have been around longer than the traveler.
Granted that could also just mean in the sense that they were there before the traveler came to sol

[queen swallow]

"One lady who loves destiny lore" you mean Allison Luhr, the narrative lead?

[slim girder]

Allison yes

Her

Sry I always forget some of the dev names

[dim minnow]

given that the Nine didn't even start to exist until the formation of Sol, they couldn't be older than the Traveler

but they definitely were around in Sol longer than the Traveler

[slim girder]

@dim minnow ok I mixed it up. Just went back and Allison says the nine are "Extremely powerful beings that have been in the solar system way way way way longer than the traveler"

Not older than the traveler though

My b

[empty trout]

Can Guardians walk and stand on water? Or is that just a one-time weird thing in that one offensive in a lake back in Season of Defiance?

[trim grotto]

I cannot think of a single case where that has happened outside of Defiance, no. That said, it isn't implausible.

Andal Brask was resurrected in the ocean and spent his first few days of life drowning over and over. What fun!

[empty trout]

Oh wow, that's brutal.

[queen swallow]

I think that Battlegrounds water thing is really "because videogame"

[trim grotto]

I think we could reasonably attribute it to Mara Sov as well. We were utilising her power.

[slim girder]

We weren't walking on water there. It was just a video game thing like how fortnites lakes are only ankle deep water.

[ember storm]

was it not meant to just be like the shallow edge of a shore

[wheat flower]

So knowing what we know about the witness being the first knife does that mean thw hive worms drew power from another source of darkness?

[ember storm]

Hm?

The witness was never their source of power

They draw their power from their worms who come from the worm gods

[river creek]

So I just got euphony, and I'm reading the lore tab attached to it, and I'm wondering. What is the significance and meaning of this?

[queen swallow]

I think it another way of conceptualizing the Final Shape. We view it as the end of all things but the Witness might've viewed it as a symphony, something predictable. Personally, as a musician, this interpretation of music is rather stupid. It try to explain it, music can be aurally predicted. By this I mean I can typically play a given series of notes and, if they're the right ones, your brain will start trying to predict what comes next and it is often going to be right. However, this is about the only predictable thing in music because the rest of it is up to interpretation. Going back to the symphony reference, different conductors will have wildly different views of how they want the ensemble to perform a symphony. They'll mix up the tempo, the dynamics, the articulations, and some might even change the orchestration to match the ensemble.

[river creek]

So why is the Witness's perspective of the Final Shape engraved on a stone wall inside the Traveler?

[queen swallow]

🤷

[river creek]

huh

[dapper moss]

it probably put it there itself

[river creek]

ig we'll never know because the Fate saga is starting

[dapper moss]

the witness kind of did a number on the travelers insides

[river creek]

oh yeah

[dapper moss]

so it's not too far out to assume that it put that there itself

[queen swallow]

The point doesn't quite land as well given that we can be resurrected but like, how are we going to ask a dead body what it was thinking?

[river creek]

Maybe the traveller put it there? The inside is a composite of the outside correct? who's to say that the Traveller could not have known the Witness' perspective

[dapper moss]

it's an equally fair assumption to assume the witness put it there

[river creek]

ig yeah

[dapper moss]

especially considering the other things the witness put there, like the pustules of darkness and cysts and the pyramid architecture near the impasse

[queen swallow]

The Traveller does not seem like something that would argue for the Final Shape as Euphony does

[dapper moss]

but you're right in that the traveler could have put it there as well because the ancient city that we see in the liminality strike is likely a representation of the civilization the witness originally came from

[river creek]

oh

[dapper moss]

and the traveler OR the witness put it there for whatever reason

[river creek]

yeah

[slow berry]

I thing its simpler than that in the sense that its just how the Witness is working to achieve the Final Shape - it's not just about stopping everything, it's about stopping everything in the exact perfect way it has to be, the Witness conducting every single subatomic particle like an orchestra to create the Final Shape

And it plays into everything related to the Witness' resonance and such being tied to music and sound waves

[queen swallow]

String Theory but the Witness is the puppeteer

[slow berry]

What if starhorse raid boss

Also what IS starhorse

[queen swallow]

Starhorse is Starhorse

[trim grotto]

Outside of Dares? A mystery.
Within Dares? A paraversal being (so influence in Destiny, Marathon, PiD, Halo, so on). And a representative of Bungie "in universe".
I wouldn't take Dares Starhorse too seriously unless you're already deep on the paraverse theories.

[pallid thunder]

I’m hype for the nine civil war
I get to finally shoot one

[queen swallow]

If you're on any of the main planets, you already can by just shooting the floor

[ancient drum]

Please forward the following message to 'Paladin Oran': "If the solar module yields balanced ignitor, replace the harmonized diffuser aboard yearly."

[queen swallow]

?

[slow berry]

isnt it just shoot the floor

[slim girder]

Just initiate exterminatus

Nine problem solved

https://tenor.com/view/exterminatus-explosion-overkill-planet-killer-wipeout-gif-2255562371502138943

[fluid peak]

Happy birthday :D

[little gorge]

actually you would need to break up the planets into small rocks and spread them apart so their gravitational pull can't create loops of dark matter

[trim grotto]

Congratulations

[slow berry]

well how do you think im getting them into small rocks

im down five hundred primary ammo synths but if you help out we can get it done in half the time

[peak trout]

It makes sense though that nine been longer cause as I predicted the nine is dark matter which means the Traveller must be billions years old but is not bound by normal physics

But the question is how did they get formed if they were formed after the solar system

[hard sigil]

the nine are only as old as life is in Sol

"But life arose on the worlds at the heart of the Nine, tiny complicated motions of ecosystems and metabolisms and computations. That life left mass-shadows in the wind of the Nine, plucking at them like harp strings. From these trembles of structure the Nine learned to seed enormous resonating waves, thoughts vaster than worlds." - The Nine, Dust

they exist due to the gravitational pull of the planets, and are self aware and sentient due to the life on the planets

[ember storm]

to be clear nine are not literally the planets and they are NOT older than the traveler

they've just been in Sol longer because they formed from the life in Sol

[trim grotto]

The Traveler may well have been formed with the birth of the universe. It contains electroweak material.

As stated by the others, the Nine only formed as the Dark Matter loops were caught by the gravity of the Solar System. They're old, but not older than the Traveler.

[ember storm]

but you are

old

[trim grotto]

[slim girder]

I know the traveler has been a massive point of destinys story with the light and darkness saga but is it weird that I think it'd be cool if it took a back seat for this next saga? Traveler doesn't have it's ancient enemy hunting it anymore and now can heal the damage done to it however long that'll take

Would be cool to truly discover more about it and the veils origins in the future though

I'd like to see how both these entities began and if they were always separate before being joined and then seperated again or were they born joined together before seperating

Still yet to see anymore from the winnower or its "second knife" whatever or whoever that might be. Maybe that's tied to this big truth we're supposed to be discovering in EoF

[sleek matrix]

This is probably the case

[river surge]

Still wanna know more about the origin and how it was created, the theory about it being The Gardener as part of the game, and The Winnower being The Veil still is kinda lame for me tbh

[trim grotto]

I can't say there's a lot putting the Winnower as the Veil, to be honest.

[dim minnow]

Personally, I think the Veil is actually part of the Gardener that was severed by the Winnower

[slim girder]

I'm hanging onto that theory that the traveler and veil were like a fruit and a branch when they were together.

Something connected to that tree that was in the black garden which is now a giant stump

[river surge]

For me, I believe that The Traveler was a fruit from the The Tree of Silver Wings (the original one from the Garden)

[trim grotto]

Also as far as Unveiling is concerned - if we take it at face value (which we should not), it does very nearly explicitly call the Gardener the Traveler.

[dim minnow]

There's a couple of statements ingame that imply that the Veil and Traveler were once united

[river surge]

Yeah but The Veil is kinda small tbh, I dont think its fits perfectly

[dim minnow]

Well, there are others who call the Traveler the Gardener

[sleek matrix]

They are defo linked

[trim grotto]

There's more to it than physical size.

[sleek matrix]

The witness tricked us by going for calus to use our ghost and sync with the veil to the traveler

[trim grotto]

These are paracausal entities. The size isn't really relevant, to be frank.

[blazing wasp]

The pale heart is much bigger than the traveler in volume

[slim girder]

They are. This was confirmed. Aside from the obvious end of the veil that looked like it was designed to coil around the traveler and the fact it was needed to cut into the pale heart

[sleek matrix]

Although it would be nice to know more sometimes leaving things open ended can be a good thing

[river surge]

They simply dont wanna tell us straight because that would just be boring

[slim girder]

I don't really want to know exactly everything but I'd like to just have some kind of idea of the powers behind them or what part of the universe they may have come from.
Why was it in the ground when the precursors discovered it? Was it always there?

[sleek matrix]

It also kills any mystery

[river surge]

Yeah, and thats what I love about Destiny lore cause its mysterious in a way they wanna try to make u look for answers

[sleek matrix]

The answers are there if you look for it

[slim girder]

Dreams of alpha lupi is another bit of cryptic lore I'd like to hear more about.

[slim girder]

I know but again I'd just like to know a little more about the origin of the traveler. Like it didn't just appear on the precursors world. Either it put itself there or something else did.

Hell imagine if the reason it was in the ground was because like with our civilization it was running from something

[river surge]

I kinda view it boring BECAUSE somehow The Witness was chosen for the Winnower first knife by accident

what if The Traveler never landed on the precursor planet

[trim grotto]

We did get a sequel in the form of Constellations and the visions in the Pale Heart.

[dim minnow]

Not entirely by accodent

[sleek matrix]

It couldn't of been running from something at that time

[river surge]

or The Winnower just knew from the beginning

[sleek matrix]

The witness came abit after

[slim girder]

That's also the first time we've ever seen the traveler "land" as long as we've known it, it's been just floating above.

[dim minnow]

Sure the Traveler just so happened to be there, but at the end of the day, the precursors chose to be the Witness

[river surge]

like it crashed or something

[sleek matrix]

It probably did the same thing it did help other places

[dim minnow]

And that's the thing, they eventually chose the cynicism of the Winnower

Like the Winnower believes all things eventually do

[river surge]

And thats what im wondering what if The Traveler never crashed/landed on the precursor planet would The Winnower still be after a knife or eventually somehow a race will still defy his will

[dim minnow]

If the Winnower is right, then it would not have mattered where the Traveler was

[slim girder]

The winnower is not after anything. It knows it's logic is just a way of the universe. Inserting into that would defy that logic

[sleek matrix]

The winnower doesn't have to do anything to win

[slim girder]

As it said "someone is always making my choice"

[sleek matrix]

Like it said

[river surge]

Yeah but it was just so happend to be there especially with The Witness

[slim girder]

I'm also curious as to where the precursors found the veil. The story makes it sound like they travelled far to find it and when they brought it back that's what kicked off that whole pursuit of the traveller

[dim minnow]

They likely did something similar to what the Witness did at the start of Lightfall

[slim girder]

Yeah I thought that as well. "Visions" still though again I would like to see more of where the veil or the traveler came from. Not exactly origins but just more stories about the life of the 2 entities

Because at least with the traveler it has thoughts and is sentient so had stories to tell

Not really sure if the veil has that kind of thing though and seems to be more like a "memory well" considering the tests done on it by Maya and chioma.

Gives me huge mold from RE7/8 vibes of stored consciousness

[river surge]

I dont know if this has any relevance but I find it cool, if u combine the Veil and The Traveler, u will realize it will form an infinity symbol

[blazing wasp]

They are two circle shaped things at the correct angle

So yes

[slim girder]

I think it looks more like a lightbulb or something that used to be connected to something else just based on the shape of the veil.

That "portal" on the top of it is very mysterious.