📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

who else would he think of just then

[eager trout]

Are Ghosts the ones who make ammo blocks drop from ads?

[fair stream]

Between the claim she made about stealing a guardian back in the day, the way she says she has an “argument to win”, the way she’s compared directly to Sagira, and the way before entering and after leaving the apartment she says she’s definitely going to spend more time here makes it pretty clear that her motivation is to hang out with Osiris, probably to start a partnership with him

Whether he’ll actually get the light back, or whether they’ll be more unofficial partners in the way that Micah works together with unpartnered ghosts, either way they sound like a lot of fun and I hope we get to see more of them together.

[ember storm]

that is gameplay

ammunition is a normal thing guardians have to purchase and stock up on

[eager trout]

Then explain primary ammo

Guardians don't (and can't) carry 300 magazines with them

[ember storm]

it is literally just a video game

what do you want me to say

it's not the writer's fault if you run nfs by plinking away at ads with primary for like 45 minutes

[dim minnow]

I figure they use the transmat system to keep their primary ammo up

[ember storm]

i don't have to "Explain" anything the war rig lore is literally just shaxx advising new lights to purchase as much ammo as they can physically carry

[fair stream]

https://www.destinypedia.com/Ammo_Synthesis

[ember storm]

this proves there's both a limit and an individual supply

[dim minnow]

can't do it with special and heavy ammo since they are more heavy duty

[fair stream]

"Single-use Ghost manufacturing package. Instantly replenish primary weapon ammunition."
— In-game description

[ember storm]

gameplay items happen to be gameplay, shocking

[fair stream]

Which implies Ghosts create Ammo from materials

[ember storm]

"Keep it clean. Your body. Your mind. Your armor. Weapons. Gear. Ammo. CRS #1: Keep it clean. Clean equals function. Clean equals focus. That's where it all starts. Skill matters. Training, practice, experience. All key ingredients. All valued assets as you balance death and glory on the battlefield. But once you're trained and ready for war. And once your gear is up to the standards of a proper, respected, walking, talking war machine. What comes next?"
"1177!"
"That's right. CRS #1177: Ammunition is your best friend. So what do you do?"
"Load up."
"Load. Up. Get yourself a weapon that spits unending fire and stock up on ammo until your shoulders slump and your back aches. Because each round is a war all its own."

[dim minnow]

this lore tab was also written before primary ammo was made infinite

[ember storm]

and after the provided synthesis item (which was D1 exclusive)

i honestly doubt that the primary ammo change has any canon connotation

do you also think it's canon that looking at an ugly pole in the ground magically refreshes all of our paracausal power as well as our weapon reserves

[eager trout]

Rally banners seem to be created with Light (based on the animation)

So they could do that

[ember storm]

why would hawthorne sell something created with light

[fair stream]

Dude, you don’t have to be rude. If they can take a popular loot farming location and build an entire official dungeon story out of it, then there’s no harm in asking questions about in-universe explanations for other in-game mechanics

[eager trout]

I mean the banners you don't need to purchase

But Guardians can easily infuse Hawthorne's with Light

[dim minnow]

hell, Bungie put a lore explanation for why people in the tower weld without any visible eye protection

[ember storm]

did they really

[dim minnow]

yeah, Amanda explained to Niik that they have implants

[ember storm]

can we get a loretab about throwing rahool off the tower

[ember storm]

oh are they doing cyberpunk stuff now

[dim minnow]

well we know Ana Bray got some cool Braytech eye implants from Venus

[ember storm]

amanda should've gotten an implant that lets her see armed explosives

[dim minnow]

should have had Solar resistance mods

[ember storm]

i dont remember how concussive dampener works

is it all aoe types

[eager trout]

What does it even do?

[ember storm]

"Reduces incoming area-of-effect damage from combatants"

thanks bungie really helpful

[eager trout]

Wait, it reduces damage???

[ember storm]

does this include fire pools? stasis bubbles?

lasers are a straight line which is technically an area

[eager trout]

I thought it was just the area itself

[ember storm]

does it reduce lasers

[dim minnow]

I think area of effect is meant to refer to explosive damage

like Hive boomers

[ember storm]

does it include mines and stuff tho

it says combatant

guess it wouldnt have helped amanda

[agile panther]

brutality

[slim girder]

Yes.
If it's an attack that has an AoE component then concussive dampener reduces it.

@ember storm ^^^^

It's because of concussive dampener and amplified that I can face tank the tripwires in vespers like a titan.

[tough badge]

so whats happening with eris?

[sick yew]

She died

Except she didn't

[fresh zephyr]

She died then came back somehow

Kinda like cayde

[tough badge]

y she in throne world?

[sick yew]

"Somehow" in this case means she has a throne world

[fresh zephyr]

Her own thrown world

Basically

[sick yew]

Cause she was the strongest hive God of all time for a short while

[fresh zephyr]

Which means she must be a hive queen

Oh I was right

XD

I was just guessing

[sick yew]

Cayde got wished back by an Ahamkara, slight difference

[tough badge]

she healing up in the throne world?

[sick yew]

Healing? Nah

She's not wounded

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah but you got to think he’s the poster child of the game they was going to bring him back no matter what

[tough badge]

thought thats what happens to hive dudes in throne worlds

they like die

then go to throne world

[fresh zephyr]

Hard to explain

Play through herasy

[sick yew]

I don't remember if they can return at a later point or just gotta hang out in their throneworld until they get killed there

[tough badge]

i did 🙂

[fresh zephyr]

It’s only ep two there is a third ep coming out

[sick yew]

Act*

[fresh zephyr]

Thx

[tough badge]

they need to like

gimme this stuff early

[fresh zephyr]

Well first they need to fix there servers from crashing

Was in the middle of zero hour then it booted me

Was tryna get the catalyst for whatever that gun was

It has tiny robots that attack the enemy if you shoot grits

Crits

[tough badge]

Outbreak 🙂

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah that thing my Brain is mush rn from grinding on the dread

Tryna get that smg

[tough badge]

Real

[fresh zephyr]

Did you see where the va of sav roasted people

The witch queen herself roasted a whole clan

But anyways

[arctic iron]

deserved

[slim girder]

Nothing will beat savathun telling paul tassi to touch grass

[fresh zephyr]

Like frrrr

[hollow hinge]

What was the error code?

[eager trout]

Who?

[slim girder]

Journalist who does stuff on destiny

[eager trout]

Ah, ok

[ember storm]

He’s like

Not that smart

[slim girder]

Like a lot of people who jump the gun and start making wild assumptions about the game

Literally an 1 hour into the launch of something

[chrome fog]

He came back to immediately sacrifice himself for the greater good with a greater theme of having to move on from the past, explicitly highlighting how his presence is less a relief and moreso dredging up old wounds and possibly undoing progress that everyone had already gone through to get over his death

But at the very least allowing anyone who needs to to make peace with his death and say what they've wanted to say to him before he had gone

[flint vapor]

I hadn't played for a couple of weeks, I feel like I missed something major because Sloane is talking about finding Eris and last I played they didn't know she was still alive

Was that the Act 1 finale and I'll have to youtube it?

Last thing I did was the bit where you find out about the echo of Oryx

[chrome fog]

It's part of Act 2; technically we the player get to see Eris wake up in her Throneworld, but none of the in-game characters see this - Act 2 I believe has the Guardian and others discovering that she's still alive

[flint vapor]

I just opened the game and the first quest of Act 2 mentions Eris, and entering the new activity Sloane is talking about finding her

So a bit confused

But yeah I know we saw her alive doing evil laugh right after she 'died'

[ember storm]

Things just got messed up for you

[flint vapor]

Or maybe it's just an unfortunate quirk of the playlist activity, it might have voice lines based on the assumption that you're up to date on the main quest?

[ember storm]

You’re supposed to investigate the nether first thing and find these little rifts around

[flint vapor]

Huh

[ember storm]

Where Eris tries to break through interference to speak to us

[flint vapor]

Step 1 for me was court of blades, now step 2 is investigate rifts accompanied by a woman's voice

Oh well, seems it'll be alright!

[trim grotto]

Ah yes, the Court of Blades dialogue was a bit out of whack. Just ignore that initial run - and don't do the Writ quest until after you've caught up on the Act.

[dense pike]

saadhale has been banned!

[ember storm]

[eager trout]

Who?

[chrome fog]

Oh boy I wonder what happened

[ember storm]

Why are you pink

[empty fern]

What I miss

[plain sequoia]

it kinda sucks we never find naeems body

we find parts of hefnd and whatnot but it wouldve been cool to find naeems body after we collect all the bones

[uneven canyon]

Did Clovis have a functioning exo frame before he opened the Vex portl on Europa?

Or did research start after?

[jagged badge]

Exos did exist before he harvested Radiolaria

They just suffered from problems Radiolaria fixed

If that’s what you mean

[uneven canyon]

Were Exos a normal sight during the Exodus times?

[dim minnow]

I think so

Last Days on Kraken Mare is a notable example

there were also exos on Exodus Indigo which eneded up on Neptune

[trim grotto]

The Exodus Program was relatively late into the Golden Age, so yes, most likely. That said, they were still a minority, and people still had their reservations about Exo - see the Black Armory Papers for an example.

[chrome fog]

The legacy pack was $10 and my new laptop runs pretty wel

But I still need to get Lightfall on pc for prismatic

[trim grotto]

Lightfall for what

[inner drift]

Chat hear me out, the Herald of Finality is Taniks because exclusively it's legs are taken and the only thing missing from Taniks after we beat him last time was his legs, so the witness dreadified his upper body and slapped on some poor taken captains legs on him

Peak Cinema 🙌

Oh also the soundtrack that plays during the Herald fight has some of the leitmotifs of Shadow Thief

[eager trout]

Prismatic?

[chrome fog]

Is

Isn’t

Prismatic

The subclass that mixes the abilities of others together

[trim grotto]

Reread what you said

[chrome fog]

Am I being gaslit

[jagged badge]

Reread what you said

[eager trout]

In Lightfall-?

[chrome fog]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825273448149286922/1315338358188150864/1733634972526851.gif

[chrome fog]

I’m tired

Final Shape

[uneven canyon]

Is it true that Guardians are infertile? Why can't they have children?

[dim minnow]

it isn't confirmed, we know Saladin is

[uneven canyon]

Or he just gets no bitches

[trim grotto]

Dova is right. It's implied, but not confirmed.

Saladin is actually in a similar boat
He "won't" have kids, not "can't"

[ember storm]

His arms and legs have been gone for like decades

[uneven canyon]

The Traveler can cure ailments when we're resurrected, right?

[ember storm]

Traveler isn’t doing anything

[trim grotto]

In theory. We haven't seen any physical maladies pursue initial resurrection.

[sleek matrix]

Its more so the vanguard doesn't allow it

[dim minnow]

knowing what we know now about Dread creation, it does raise some interesting questions about how the Herald of Finality was made

[ember storm]

That’s never been a thing

[trim grotto]

That is not confirmed, likely as it may be

[eager trout]

What herald?

[dim minnow]

the first boss in Salvation's Edge

[eager trout]

Oh, I haven't done it

What is it?

[dim minnow]

it's a unique Taken Captain

[trim grotto]

With 0 lore bar its name and model

[dim minnow]

I think it's actually a Dread shaped into the form of a Taken Captain, or a Taken Captain that has been heavily reshaped with Dread powers

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/herald-of-finality-destiny-2-destiny-salvation's-edge-the-final-shape-gif-3835199847092941404

Why is this a gif

Who put this in

[dim minnow]

uhhh, because it's a cool looking animation

[ember storm]

Why him and not say

[dim minnow]

someone just wanted to make a gif otu of it

not too deep

[ember storm]

Val Ca’our

Val Ca’our is cool

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/slayer-gabe-gif-15085305210615034779

this is the only gif of him I found in gif search

[eager trout]

Why Ganondorf?

[slim estuary]

Okay I gotta know, does caiatl have a crush on Zavala lol

The passive aggressive flirty banter got me shipping zavaiatl

[eager trout]

Who knows

What exactly is Barrow Dyad?

[slim estuary]

Also the line “we will celebrate in ways that will shame and awe our ancestors” was great

[slim girder]

A living being in a gun.

[slim estuary]

That’s the dream

[ember storm]

living being? uh I sure hope it does

[trim grotto]

Well it isn't explicitly stated but you could draw the implication
Could just be platonic friendship and respect of course

[chrome fog]

The Vault Zoo of various gun-shaped living entities grows once more

[fresh zephyr]

Is Byf correct

[next bobcat]

About what?

[trim grotto]

[fresh zephyr]

There’s like a new villain between the Winnower and the Taken

Is it Taox

[slim girder]

No one knows.

Everything is pure speculation

[trim grotto]

Taox was a mortal Krill. Krill lived to 10.
Now, as a Mother Morph, she'd live longer... but longer than 10 years old when we're talking about a billion year old civilisation is, uh...

[slim girder]

For once in the lore we really have nothing except for some descriptions and just what we've seen so far in the episode

[fresh zephyr]

Could be a totally new villain, imagine something that openly disses the Witness😭

[slim girder]

Eyes, tentacles, taken singing to it, oryx describing it as carving the same pathways as the winnower and now with the current events this week, this entity can now make new taken.

[slim girder]

Again we really don't know what or who it even is. Just that something is.....

There

And that's really all we have for now

[fresh zephyr]

Could it be the Nine maybe

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2spy-he-could-be-any-one-of-us-gif-22141763

[slim girder]

No this doesn't fit something they'd do.
Even though they're cryptic you'd still be able to tell if the nine were involved just through aesthetics

Only thing we have in lore relating to the nine in the current state of events is a loretab on the new sidearm

Very interesting read.

Only thing pointing to the nine is the fact there's a "9" amongst all the text.

[inner drift]

So with all the hive tomfoolery this episode and with Eris getting her own throne world it got me wondering

Why doesn’t our guardian have a throne world at this point?

Like it’s not a hive exclusive thing

[trim grotto]

Because we didn't have a Worm nor are we empowered by Sword Logic

[inner drift]

We’re obviously more than powerful enough for it?

[inner drift]

Mara Sov has one though

[trim grotto]

Because she Wished for it through Riven

It is the sole exception

Even Eris had a Worm and Proto-Worm connection at the time

[inner drift]

Fair enough but it still makes me wonder why we’ve never even heard of a guardian with one before

Surely someone would’ve tried to

I guess there’s Toland

Also wait wasn’t there a scorn baron with one?

[trim grotto]

Because the pure existence of being strong doesn't create a Throne World. One would have to willingly succumb to the Worm Parasite connection, and 9/10 times, that means tethering yourself to a being with an insatiable, ever growing hunger that is only fed by death. Eventually, you wouldn't be able to satiate it. Eventually, it'd consume you.

[trim grotto]

Hiraks learned his secrets in the Hellmouth. While the specifics were never clarified, it is Hive affiliation.

It is likely a Worm Parasite was involved somewhere along the line.

[trim grotto]

The only reason this worked for the Hive Gods for as long as it did was because of their Tribute System, where entire broods would send their death tributes up the line to their gods.

[inner drift]

Guys I have an idea for how we can make Zavala and Osiris immortal again

Hear me out here…

[trim grotto]

(To be fair to Zavala, he's still Awoken. Look at Mara Sov - she returned to Sol in the early Dark Ages, and she still looks like she's in her 20s.)

[inner drift]

Yeah but she’s kind of the exception also she’s literally got a throne world

I feel like that idk

[trim grotto]

Okay, but Uldren was the same.

[inner drift]

They have good skincare in the ascendant plane

[trim grotto]

The Awoken are very long lived. So much so that we've never seen one die of old age. Uldren Sov was just as old as Mara until his death in Forsaken.

They didn't start ageing until they left the Distributary, and they clearly age very very well even so.

[inner drift]

Okay so maybe Zavala doesn’t need a throne world but Osiris would absolutely be up for it

You can’t convince me otherwise

[trim grotto]

I feel like I shouldn't have to

[sick yew]

[next bobcat]

Wait

By that logic, couldn’t Quria have made one?

[dim minnow]

Quria and the Vex did study Hive worms to learn how Sword Logic worked, though they never took in the worms like the Hive did

[next bobcat]

Ok good to know

Could quria simulate a throne world within the vex net which duplicates it when it dies or something?

Or do some infinite forest bullshit?

[dim minnow]

now that is an interesting thought

but it seems that Taken already don't really die

it's been stated that they just go back to the Ascendant Plane when they die

but that does raise the question on what happens to them if they die inside of the Ascendant Plane

furthermore, is there an actual way to kill them for good?

have we already killed various Taken for good?

[next bobcat]

1 - Was Quria more power before being taken
2 - how did Quria have free will when taken
3 - where is Quria now

[dim minnow]

1 - Quria likely became more powerful after being Taken since it becoming Taken could have given it a better understanding fo paracausality
2 - Oryx left Quria with some free will just for the hell of it
3 - Not sure, Quria could actually be dead for good for all we know

[next bobcat]

I’ve thought about this previously, actually
My idea is that lower level taken like grunts and stuff lose all of their previous form when taken, whereas more significant taken eg. Quria retain part of their old existence, and so when they die that part may live on

The ascendant plane probably functions differently to a throne world

[dim minnow]

well Throne Worlds are specific parts of the Ascendant Plane

created by powerful beings

so there must be some intersection in how they work

[next bobcat]

So the ascendant plane has just always been there right?

[dim minnow]

anyways, Bungie just told us that Taken return to the AP when killed and have not really elaborated on it

[dim minnow]

presumably, though it is implied that it looked different before it was "corrupted"

we aren't yet sure who messed it up

could be the Witness

[next bobcat]

Oryx or witness

[dim minnow]

though the Witness never really had a big presence in the AP

the Hive are another possible suspect

[next bobcat]

Yeah neither did any disciples

[dim minnow]

maybe it's the eldritch entity that is lurking in the shadows

[next bobcat]

Additionally, why did nezarec not employ nightmares in his raid? It would’ve let him exert greater control over essence

[dim minnow]

early on in the raid, he stated that he wasn't at his best at the time

he wanted to kill some Neomuni to hasten our arrival, but he couldn't

as for later on when he was powering up, he was likely still getting used to his newfound power

[next bobcat]

Sure sur

Is his pyramid the one on the moon?

[dim minnow]

yes

and that Pyramid is also currently looking for a new master

I'm betting on Yirix

[sick yew]

Still?

Despite the Witness being dead

[dim minnow]

the Pyramids still act even without the Witness

they "remember" it

Sundered Doctrine shows that the Sunken Pyramid is still set to keep Savathun out

[next bobcat]

So how did essence get out of the moon?

Alternatively, how did it get in?

[sick yew]

That sounds more like a defense mechanism no?

[sick yew]

essence?

You mean the nightmares?

[next bobcat]

I’m under the impression that nezarec’s ship is the one in the moon and the one in the raid, essence

Are they different pyramids?

[blazing wasp]

they are, root of nightmares does not take place in nezarecs pyramid iirc

i think its the witness' pyramid? im unsure

[sick yew]

Correct

The Pyramid in Ron is the big one of the Witness itself

Which gets blasted by the traveler beam in the Lightfall opening which indirectly causes Nezzy to start resurrecting and also slowly but surely breaks the entire pyramid apart via the overgrowth and gigantic tree of silver wings

[blazing wasp]

yea

[next bobcat]

Interesting

[sick yew]

Nezzys pyramid just sits there on the moon spitting out nightmares every couple of days ig

No one saw that

[plain sequoia]

Rhulks pyramid is on the moon

Yes

Noted

[sick yew]

https://tenor.com/view/jerma-stare-gif-25080910

[fresh zephyr]

@trim grotto Didn’t Quria live or something? I remember someone mentioned that after it died, the head remained

Where normally taken just vanish or vex explode

[sick yew]

I dont think shes been mentioned since but maybe?

[fresh zephyr]

Do you think Bungie will throw a curveball and The Winnower will send us another email, asking for our help like “hey buddy, long time no see”

Apologizes for the Witness and asks us to restore balance

[next bobcat]

She? I didn’t know Quria was a she. Do vex have gender?

[sick yew]

They do, sorta

Some do

its weird

[next bobcat]

Sums up vex perfectly

[sick yew]

Yeah

I believe Panoptes aka the funky guy from curse of Osiris was referred to as he back in the day

[fresh zephyr]

Oh boy

[next bobcat]

Speaking of nightmares, how did they get everywhere and how did they get into the leviathan

[fresh zephyr]

I forgot about him

[sick yew]

It might just be a thing for "higher" Vex

Minds and shit

[fresh zephyr]

Panoptes will get the Echo

[blazing wasp]

cause the leviathan went to the moon

[sick yew]

They seem to sorta just naturally form around Nezzys pyramid, possibly a side effect of Nezzys powers in general
After the Scarlett Keep emerged it also opened the burried pyramid thus the nightmares started appearing

During season of the Haunted Calus parked the Leviathan around the moon and thus the nightmares also started appearing there

[next bobcat]

?!?!?

[sick yew]

(Shes joking)

[next bobcat]

Why’d he do that, is he stupid?

[sick yew]

Panoptes is dead as hell

[next bobcat]

Ah ok lol

[sick yew]

Remember when Calus really really wanted to join up with the Witness?

[fresh zephyr]

Calus was getting left on read by the Witness 100%

[sick yew]

Onboard the Glykon he experimented on the crown of sorrow trying to contact the Witness

[next bobcat]

Oh so he was like “oh heyyy I like nightmares haha lol”

[sick yew]

And later they actually got back to him before he became a disciple

So its most likely that Calus was either directly told to bring the Leviathan to the moon or it was part of getting on the good side with the Witness

[fresh zephyr]

Even as a Disciple, the Witness really did the bare minimum lol, as he’s mid monologue, The Witness is already leaving lmao

Poor guy

[sick yew]

The Witness was pretty fed up with Calus for half of Lightfall yeah

Which makes sense cause their personalities dont mix

[next bobcat]

He did kinda a shit job

[sick yew]

Duh

[fresh zephyr]

“Progress?”

Not yet

“Okay bye”

[next bobcat]

We literally saw the witness get into our ghost (how btw) and we walked straight into the veil

[sick yew]

"Youre afraid"
"Afraid naaaah im the emperor im so cool and sick and the fucking best and-"
Deathstare
"Im sorry..."

[fresh zephyr]

The Witness absolutely humbled him

[next bobcat]

Nosebleed inducing death stare

[blazing wasp]

Calus is like that lazy employee at retail, but you the manager cant really fire him becaues the CEO is his uncle

[sick yew]

The Witness has been able to speak through ghosts as long back as like Shadowkeep

[fresh zephyr]

8K nosebleed btw

[blazing wasp]

so you reluctantly keep him

[blazing wasp]

they did so in arrivals too even

[sick yew]

It seems the Traveler did not put a good firewall into ghosts so the Witness just regularly spoke through them and shit
Hell even Rasputin could pull that off

[sick yew]

Arrivals was after Shadowkeep my guy

[blazing wasp]

yes

i added another case

cause i dont think they've done it much otherwise?

[next bobcat]

So how did we get to Europa

[sick yew]

We just drove there

[next bobcat]

What happened after shadowkeep and before beyond light

[sick yew]

Season of Arrivals

Oh wait entirely

[blazing wasp]

at the end of arrivals they basically told us "power awaits you on europa" so we went to europa

[next bobcat]

Take a left at Jupiter

[blazing wasp]

asked "ok we're here what did you bring us here for" and we heard variks

[sick yew]

Uuuuh season of undying (Vex shit)
Season of Dawn (Saint 14 gaming)
Season of Worthy (Rasputin gotta blow up the almighty)
Season of Arrivals (Darkness is here and steals the og planets)

[blazing wasp]

im sure you know the rest

[fresh zephyr]

The Witness basically set Eramis up for failure

[sick yew]

Then we get a radio message from Variks who has been mia since Forsaken and decide to go to Europa and investigate which kicks off the Beyond Light plot

[next bobcat]

So what was arrivals about

Who’s we fighin

[fresh zephyr]

Fed her power, promised her a new Riis, had us cook her and then she was chained to The Witness

Absolute madman

[trim grotto]

No. It isn't.

[trim grotto]

Savasiris wanted to keep the head. I'll have to double check what happened to it.

Sorry if I'm a bit laconic, I'm Helldiving

[blazing wasp]

without me?

im hurt

[sick yew]

Pyramids arrive in the system, Rasputin tried to fight back and gets knocked out cold by the Witness and forces in seconds
They park on Titan, Io, Mars and Mercury
Specifically on Io theres now a tree of silver wings on the spot that the Traveler used to sit at pre collapse and eris tries to commune with the Darkness there but Savathun tries to stop us on every turn
Uuuh bla bla Drifter is involved too we gotta bank taken motes for umbral engrams bla bla Darkness gives us Ruinous Effigy which was pretty fun bla bla cryptic ass dialogue from Eris every weeek and also a neat lorebook of the destination vendors (Ana, Asher Mir, Sloane and Brother Vance) all dealing with the pyramids sitting on the planets in their own way

Oh yeah Nokris the guy from mf Warmind also shows up cause Savathun kinda manipulated him so that he works for her (We shoot the shit out of him and he died again)

[sick yew]

[sick yew]

But yeah Zoup thats the rough storyoutline of Arrivals

It was mostly a setup season for stuff like Asher eventually invading the Vex network, Ana trying to rebuild Rasputins ai matrix and Sloane getting her funky armor cause she stayed back on Titan

The only one who we havent heard from is Brother Vance who ventured into the Infinite Forrest alone

But im sure hes fine and will be very relevant in Frontiers

[next bobcat]

Thanks broski

[sick yew]

[fresh zephyr]

Rasputin got cleared, said “okay that’s enough of that” and got cleared again

Bro cannot catch a break

[next bobcat]

Is Rasputin proper forever gone?

Such a pity

[fresh zephyr]

I think so, yeah

[sick yew]

Yes
Since he essentially deleted himself at the end of Seraph to save the traveler

[next bobcat]

Could we port soteria to an exo frame and have another warmind?

[next bobcat]

Why he do that

[sick yew]

Self sacrefice and shit

[next bobcat]

How

[sick yew]

It was the only way

basically Eramis gained control of the Warsat network and pointed them at the Traveler

Actually wait I got the cutscene here somewhere its very cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjeNGkyEY2I

Here

[next bobcat]

Thanks I’ll watch a bit later

[sick yew]

Its a very pretty one I always liked it

It was also quite the shock back then

[fresh zephyr]

The recent Heresy cutscene is definitely on the level on Seraph ending

[next bobcat]

My favourite cutscene is the one in TFS where everyone’s sitting around the fire

[next bobcat]

Yeah that one’s amazing

[sick yew]

That one was pretty cool too yeah

[next bobcat]

First proper xivu look

Very cool

[sick yew]

Not entirely correct

[next bobcat]

Elaborate?

[sick yew]

We got a handful of looks in similar style during the days of the drawn cutscenes

This shot in particular which mirrors the one we got in the new cutscene

(And is also a very cool reference to the original Nosferatu movie)

[next bobcat]

Yeah but that’s just cape and head

[fresh zephyr]

Also Oryx’s new VA did an INCREDIBLE job with showing his break of faithe this week

[sick yew]

There was another one showing off all 3

We had that one back in the day

[fresh zephyr]

Didn’t expect to hear Oryx screaming down the mic this season

[sick yew]

Theyre obviously revised the design a bit

[fresh zephyr]

Bunny rabbit Xivu

[next bobcat]

I reckon this one’s the best though
It showed stuff abt the scarlet keep iirc what’s that about?

Surely xivu takes control of the scarlet keep

That’d be fucking sick

[sick yew]

It is the biggest hive installation in Earths vicinity

[fresh zephyr]

I think she already owns it, the Lucent Brood were at war with them in Risen trying to turn it inside out

[next bobcat]

Ah cool

[final geyser]

did i miss something between act 1 and act 2?

[sick yew]

Wdym

[final geyser]

last i saw drifter had up and vanished and we just met the echo of oryx, now suddenly there's court of blades and we're trying to save eris?

i thought everyone thought she was dead

[next bobcat]

She talked to us through a tear in reality iirc

That green thing

[sick yew]

Well we (the player) knew she wasnt dead but we found out during one of the weekly story missions since she contacted us through some tears in the Dreadnaught

[final geyser]

oh? i never got that

[sick yew]

And Drifter was gonna dip but he got called back and beat up by Sloane for being a bit of a bitch and now he came to his sences

[next bobcat]

It’s part of the story

[fresh zephyr]

LIGHHHHHTTTT PAWN

[final geyser]

yeah i never saw that

[next bobcat]

You didn’t go through the dreadnaught and find the tears?

Weird

[next bobcat]

This dialog was insane

Oryx was not having that heresy

[fresh zephyr]

Also Debra Wilson is such a good actor, you can hear Savathûn’s voice shaking during “dear brother” something rare with her

[sick yew]

Try to progress the main quest of the episode

[fresh zephyr]

Because this is her own brother

Also I like the idea of Oryx running off to Fundament

Could bring in Taox

[next bobcat]

That’d be cool

We could find out what the tungsten monoliths are

[trim grotto]

[blazing wasp]

(this is a /j ofc, i dont even think our timezones work together)

[next bobcat]

Timezones suck

[blazing wasp]

especially because so many play HD2 here, and i want to join :(

[next bobcat]

How dare the sun not cater to our direct needs, bending laws of physics and time to do so! Harrumph!

[fresh zephyr]

So wait, I’m the Taken Queen now

Wasn’t on my bucket list

[blazing wasp]

women after finding themselves in a relationship with a monarch

[fresh zephyr]

Real

[grand jungle]

Who would actually win in a battle ?

[sick yew]

Me

I would win

Because I write the story and I get to decide who wins

[grand jungle]

Tue whole like guardians vs frames interest me

[sick yew]

Its unfortunately like any non-canon powerscaling

The answer is whatever you want it to be

[fluid peak]

Whoever the writer wants to win, you're talking about two nigh omnipotent beings, both driven by singular purpose

[ember storm]

shadow the hedgehog

[fresh zephyr]

The Witness clears, simply because it’s based

And it gave us the gift of cinema

[sick yew]

Nuh uh Faithe

An ant is going to end the witness in the story I just wrote

[eager trout]

Who even is the man in the wall?

[sick yew]

Nothing from Destiny thats for sure

[chrome fog]

(Sorry, catching up a bit) interestingly enough it’s noted that the Vex Network occupies an adjacent plane to the Ascendent Plane, which I think Mara or someone else notes either in Season of the Splicer or in Lightfall

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/the-man-in-wall-warframe-gif-24269482

[eager trout]

shrug

[chrome fog]

That would be fun honestly, like the Winnower would be equally sociopathic and equally dedicated to its similar ideals of “Only one will be fit to survive the universe”, but more open minded and tolerant of opposing sentiment

[sleek matrix]

No because the echo said there is something between winnower and taken

So i think the contact is lost

[slim girder]

I don't play Warframe so I'm probably missing something but the man in the wall doesn't haven't any sort of motive right? It's just the force that governs the void of that world. Hasn't ever shown what it can do and again is only the governing being behind the void.

Just appears, grins, poses as clones of people and people are afraid of it because obviously anything from the void the people of Warframe don't like.

[eager trout]

Technically, even if the Winnower "loses" (turns out to be wrong), it would still have won, because the only ones left are those who prove the Winnower wrong.

[sleek matrix]

The winnower wins where ever there is conflict

[chrome fog]

Yeah, I think it would be interesting to make the distinction that the Winnower was only ever interested in finding out which side was right or wrong, not necessarily in proving itself correct because it wants the beings of the universe - of the "game" - to prove that for it

[chrome fog]

Does it really though?

Like we know only so much, aside from being a very distant influence on the grander forces which antagonize us

It might not necessarily be actively malicious, yet still be in opposition to our ideals

[hollow hinge]

[blazing wasp]

to add to this, its more likely that its not malicious at all

[sick yew]

[blazing wasp]

im assuming unveiling is not bullshit spewed from the winnower here, but one part i dont think they would lie about is the part about how they got made

which implies (or states, im not the best at interpreting it) that the winnower and the gardener are among other things sentient math, other stuff and most importantly here ideology

the winnower is so unbelievably sure its correct and inevitable it literally cannot think otherwise, in their eyes they know they're a immutable law of existence

they wont act on it to enforce it, because they dont think it matters

if you're 100% certain a specific endgame is inevitable, is it not doubt if you have to bring that about by force if it can also happen naturally?

[hollow hinge]

I'm gonna need some more clarification on this from anyone as I don't remember this or at the very least it didn't jump out at me when I played through

[pale parcel]

man in the wall

noo question

absolutely no question

[pale parcel]

it wants to kill you because you're it's weird flesh bud cousin

kinda

but it also wants to fuck with you and everything you love

[slim girder]

See but still no big ulterior motive. Unless sowing discourse to make everything chaotic like the void is the goal.
And it finding its missing fingers is something we should be making sure it doesn't do.

[pale parcel]

we just dont know it's motives cause it's weird and warframey

all we know is that it just ..

cant . be .. killed? kindof

i mean

the witness has hold of everything on the materiel plane (at max) right?

light which is physical

dark which is mental and etc

the man in the wall has that (to an extent) and everything that ISNT that

so i mean

it depends on what verse we're playing under but

the man in the wall is like- flower game controller level if we take the early black garden as the void

yk

it's a difference of verses but

i dont think the witness could even touch the man in the wall

[slim girder]

I see the void like the ascendant plane. Obviously they aren't the same but there are definitely similarities if you look at them both.
And the witnesses whole idea was control which is what the final shape was supposed to do bringing absolutely everything to a complete and perfect stillness which would be the greatest expression of that control.

As for similarities.
Both are realms overlapping our own.
Both "Push out" evolved beings like the taken and i forget the name in Warframe but they're those humans consumed by void energy on the zariman.

Both are very chaotic realms subject to the influence of anyone powerful to enforce that control.

I think something also worth mentioning is just like the man in the wall the witness has spoken to us in the form of ourselves

[inner drift]

I mean do the frames even have any methods of killing us?

They don’t have any weapons of sorrow

They aren’t creatures of light or dark

They’re not paracausal

I’m a lot less familiar with warframe lore but is there a not gameplay explanation for a frame coming back from being killed?

Like what’s stopping a hunter from just dropping 3 goldy shots in its dome and calling it a day

[slim girder]

TLDR a warframe is a person infected with disease to the point their whole body changes into what we see in the game, only downside is the person is in constant pain and torment.
The tenno is what controls them because they are able to take away that pain.

They aren't robots, they're living beings

[inner drift]

That seems like a detriment 😭

We’re gonna beat the hell out of a bunch of make-a-wish robots?

[inner drift]

Doesn’t that just make them more susceptible to murder

[slim girder]

The disease they are infected with gives them a ton of resilience. "Their skin blossomed into sword steel, their organs blessed with untold resilience"

The tenno also isn't inside the warframe. They are controlled through what's called transference.

[inner drift]

Sure but we’re trying to kill the Warframe here not the Tenno

If the two are inseparable well

I’m pretty sure a guardian can beat up a child

A psychic weird child

But a child nonetheless

[slim girder]

Tenno are also very powerful. They were changed by the void which is what gives them that ability to control a warframe.
But they can also use their abilities for lots of other stuff.

Tenno and Warframe are separate but they still need each other. Warframe needs a tenno to take away its pain and the tenno need them to fight the war that's going on.

I think there's also something else but I've forgotten

Plus as I said a tenno isn't inside their Warframe. It's a physic connection, they can teleport to the frame sure but they are often lightyears away.

In the game your tenno is just chilling in your ship floating in space

[inner drift]

Yeah sure but what’s the scenario for this fight?

Because if the Tenno is in space or far away then if we assume the guardian can beat their Warframe they can just go find them

Like our guardians don’t really have an issue with travelling in space

[inner drift]

Unless they have something that improves their durability then our guardian can kill them and I can’t see them having anything capable of killing a guardian

From the sounds of things they wouldn’t be any stronger powerwise than something along the lines of a Psion Flayer

[slim girder]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-trailer-cinematic-trailer-grineer-tenno-gif-23972872

@inner drift ^^^^
Psion flayer is a good comparison but they would probably be stronger still.

[next bobcat]

I’m gonna raise the old point of loot farming
If a guardian was told that defeating a Tenno had a 5% chance to drop an exclusive exotic, they’d have the motivation to do anything

Although the inverse is probably also true

[empty fern]

Killing a guardian gives new Eleanor cutscenes

[slim elk]

You know Amir would go crazy at getting to talk with a Ghost

[empty fern]

But could a ghost match his personality

[lusty pewter]

Rhulk vs Oryx the taken king who wins? (lore wise)

[trim grotto]

Context matters. Context always matters.

[sleek matrix]

I think i would go with rulk

[trim grotto]

We beat Oryx because we systematically dismantled his entire tribute system, for example.

[sleek matrix]

Oryx is only as powerful as his tribute system

Rulk has raw power as a base line

Hes a discipline

[ember storm]

He’s also a meathead moron

Oryx could honestly probably just take him

His entire character is defined by being a suck up due to his daddy issues

[sleek matrix]

He is very arrogant

[ember storm]

If anyone would be susceptible it would be him

[lusty pewter]

if rhulk took us seriously we wouldve been dead in seconds

[sleek matrix]

Yes

[ember storm]

All we know is that Rhulk inadvertently got his planet to blow itself up essentially, and beat up the big caterpillar from bugs life which would never fight back

Obviously a little humanoid like a third of his size would go down easy but I assume the taken king at his peak would be a fair challenge

[torpid flint]

That was basically the entire point of the raid

[hollow hinge]

I'd argue it isn't until final stand that Rhulk realises he might actually lose, as we do die within seconds after that

[zenith bison]

Who is Crota’s mother?

[ember storm]

unknown

there is a "Matron of Oryx" in a random taken king mission but that word has multiple definitions

she's never mentioned anywhere by name

[zenith bison]

Ok 👍

Would the Guardian stealing part of Crota’s soul count as corpse desecration

[trim grotto]

I suppose you could argue that, sure.

[ember storm]

whos gonna arrest me for it

the hive government

[zenith bison]

Yep 🚨🚨🚨

[pale parcel]

i mean.. yes and no? the void is everything that isnt material- the ascendant plane (while still a-material) is bound by the limits imposed by the ley-lines and the magic created by the light and dark!

the void- while being a plane of uncertainty that's outside of the grasp of casual reality- is instead the SOURCE of power.. not created from it- so i'm not sure it's as much of the ascendant plane as it is more of some place like "the deep" or the pale heart yk? it's the source of said power.. granted not a material power like the light or dark but- it still has power that can CONTROL those facets

[pale parcel]

oh my god definitely yes

they would wipe the floor with a gaurdian

it depends on the warframe of course but

say you link it with a simple tenno- as I assume you would- the tenno can just LOOK at a ghost and push enough void fluid on it and it'd shatter

cause remember!! ghosts dont take as much as you'd think to destroy!!

it's just anything paracausal

[ember storm]

a smart ghost will never be visible in combat until their guardian dies

at which point it doesnt matter

[pale parcel]

warframes most DEFINETLY have paracasual natures as they are literaly beings of "paracausal" force

[ember storm]

if a guardian goes down against an unrelenting enemy then the ghost is screwed regardless

the issue is getting the guardian to go down at all

[pale parcel]

^

i assure you warframes can do that with incredible ease

[ember storm]

so

[pale parcel]

the fight is horribly one sided

warframe scaling is incredibly stupid

it's western dragon ball

every warframe has dealt with a near extinction level threat in their past

and that's not even counting the unkillable tenno within them

[ember storm]

just sounds boring tbh

[pale parcel]

it is and it isnt imo

for what warframe is, they actually make things make alot of sense

you ever watch soul eater?

it's.. alot like that

oddly enough

[ember storm]

i just dont particularly care about powerscaling at all

i could just say that shadow the hedgehog solos everything because he's cool and then completely tune out any arguments against it because i like him more

[pale parcel]

based take

and unironically it may be a true take </3

[pale parcel]

i'd like to note that this is one of the most simple void usages- tenno that can actually control their void usage are well

practically gods

tennos arent just "some funky children with psychic powers"

they're unkillable void tumors with like 80 forms that can exist and do whatever they want because they want to

[chrome fog]

So it’s accurate that a Tenno’s warframe can be any given frame that we know and don’t know

And this is actively propagated by the abilities enabled by the Void

[pale parcel]

^

warframes are just

infested gunk that was fucked with by some ancient space aliens to make them into weapons

the tenno can control them cause the void can control everything

the warframe's strength entirely depends on it's origin aswell

for example- someone like limbo- due to his origin and math shit- is practically a god

meanwhile grendel and gauss are like planet level at most cause htey just fuck around and do whatever

[chrome fog]

Cool, that’s something I want to yoink for my character - basically Omnitrix having different origins and histories which lead to differing forms

Which. I guess I was already writing in but I think that’s a better way to visualize it

[pale parcel]

if you wanna pick the strongest ones i'd say probably...

harrow
limbo
nova
protea maybe

[pale parcel]

thumbs up!! that always works

[inner drift]

Unless you’re attributing them paracausality out of nowhere then no they don’t, the only reason we can crush hive ghosts is because we’re also guardians and by extension paracausal. A weapon of sorrow could also do the trick but again, they wouldn’t have one

[pale parcel]

they.. they do?

i've explained their origins and that their power comes from a paracausal force known as the void

[inner drift]

Paracausality isn’t a real thing, it’s a concept invented by the Destiny lore

Like it doesn’t have a definition outside of it

Bungie made it up

So unless it’s something already operating within the Destiny universe then no

[pale parcel]

it . . . does

it's a concept grounded in concepts imposed by reality

described as (for better or worse) magic

[inner drift]

“Before its use in the Destiny series, the word 'paracausal' was coined at least twice, once in a 1970 study of belief systems in Aboriginal children and once in Christopher Bennet's 2011 Star Trek novel Watching the Clock.”

• Destinypedia

[pale parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-side-eye-gif-15315026488481095480

[inner drift]

I don’t think it applies to Warframes

[pale parcel]

for the third time, paracausality is just "a force that comes without meaning or reason" ie magic

ie the entire thing the void does

[inner drift]

I mean even in the Destiny lore paracausality exists because of the Gardener changing the way reality works in its game with the Winnower, that doesn’t exist in the Warframe universe a Warframe cannot be paracausal

Like the Vex and Cabal do stuff that would be considered breaking the laws of physics but they aren’t paracausal

It’s enough to just have some weird magic stuff

[pale parcel]

Well, I'd agree with this- except the cabal ... Have..

Season of the Chosen was it?

[inner drift]

Psions are an example of this, psionic power doesn’t exist with reason but they explicitly aren’t paracausal

[pale parcel]

Zavala's ghost being shot

[inner drift]

Yes they have the light dampening technology which functions similarly to the weapons of sorrow

However

Again

Warframes don’t have access to this

[pale parcel]

umn..no? you

you're painfully dim arent you

[inner drift]

Yes? The thing they shot Zavala’s ghost with is literally a smaller version of the big net they put on the traveller

[inner drift]

That’s uncalled for

I’m not being exceptionally rude to you

[pale parcel]

I know what i've said is correct, dispite your logical falacies. I am going to feign responsibily and use my massive ego as an excuse as to not confuse myself further dealing with the likes of you muahaha

https://tenor.com/view/congrats-congratulations-yay-hooray-party-gif-2760284673419948530

[inner drift]

I might be “painfully dim” but at least I’m not a coward

You do you

[chrome fog]

Mmmmmm destinypedia….

But also true, paracausal as a term hadn’t been very widespread until within the last half-decade

But in this instance I believe the Void abilities of the Tenno - and their Warframes by virtue of being tools that they operate through - parallels closely to the paracausal abilities which are provided in the Light; both being power systems which allow one to circumvent conventional causal sequences of events to create and intended outcome

I swear at least two other games used paracausal somewhere in their marketing

[trim grotto]

Chosen used a miniaturised cage of the same technology that trapped the Traveler. They learned this from the Skyburner's expeditions into the Dreadnaught.

That said, even a particularly stubborn Dreg with a rock could kill Lord Shaxx and his Ghost if the Dreg got exceptionally lucky.

[pale parcel]

nah i was just sayin it aint work similar to the weapon of sorrow at all

completely different shindig

[trim grotto]

True. Both Hive based, but different rituals and mechanics.

[chrome fog]

A Weapon of Sorrow would allow one to circumvent targeting a Ghost, but otherwise they are still both equal in viability to neutralize a Lightbearer’s effectiveness, given they don’t also know how to utilize Darkness without relying on revives

It’s just that paracausal power makes it a bit easier

[trim grotto]

I believe in rock wielding Dreg supremacy

Take on those Lightbearers little buddy

[chrome fog]

Technically speaking, it's moreso they push known laws of physics to their absolute limit, but still remain within their confines; with Paracausality, shit is literally brought into existence with no connected cause or reason

This is also attributable to the Void as a sort of unrestrained font from which these sort of abilities can be summoned, despite not sharing the same literal description of 'paracausal'

[silk comet]

Random pop in but am I tripping or is eris morn seeming like she's being set up as a big bad?

[pale parcel]

the opposite

she's kinda our guide rn

the "big bad" being set up- we.. dont .. know . . .

[silk comet]

The more I watch the cut scenes and interact with her this season she's seeming like she's scheming

[pale parcel]

it's whatever force is in the deep rn

[jagged badge]

Where are you getting this from?

[chrome fog]

I have no idea if I'm just conflating the one Ghost Stories lore tab where they rezzed a baby and then sacrificed themselves to be a distraction, but I swear it used to be a common cautionary tale that guardians could get their ghosts killed by a stray blade or shot if they don't keep attention

[trim grotto]

She's been "set up" to be the big bad for about 10 years but she's been our most reliable and stalwart ally for all our life. There are few characters I'd trust with my life more than Eris Morn.

[chrome fog]

She's scheming with us

[pale parcel]

when has she not been scheming tbf

[trim grotto]

Check out Chaperone's lore tab

[chrome fog]

Knew it

But also I felt like it was more pronounced in D1, before we brought about the Age of Triumph

Like we scoff at Shaw Han's fireteam getting permawiped but the tone and stakes made it more apparent that in D1, the journey can end very early

Which is just interesting to me

[trim grotto]

Eris Morn resisted the call of living as the Hive God of Vengeance. I know she's spooky, but trust me - Eris is the most reliable person we have ever had on our side.

[jagged badge]

Insane to me that all she has ever done is help humanity for 10 straight years of the franchise and she’s still doubted

No other character has been as involved in our victories as she has

[silk comet]

I've been deep diving the wiki and reading alot of different lore and keep coming back to eris because I'm running through campaigns on my other characters and every time she's on screen it's as if she's doing something bigger behind our back. I didn't play during the time she became a hive god but it seems to me like she's becoming a bad guy. I know she's thematically been a red herring but i feel like I'm spiraling trying to figure out what the evil laugh after death and the scene on the moon where she goes to the pyramid by herself which some say it's the stasis thing but I'm not buying it. My tin foil is heating up man.

[eager trout]

What exactly is Resonance?

[jagged badge]

She has the most credentials to warrant trust in her, yet she doesn’t receive it

[jagged badge]

It wasn’t an evil laugh. It was a cathartic, relieved laugh at realising she was alive

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[jagged badge]

She explains her thoughts exactly to us and Drifter

[eager trout]

Why does Rhulk sound soft and sly throughout the raid but sounds like a chain smoker in the final battle?

[jagged badge]

Her Throne World vindicated her. Proved to her that all she did was worth it. That people were wrong about her

[chrome fog]

Definitely Darkness related but as to what it is specifically, it has less to define the characteristics necessary to flesh out what it is

[chrome fog]

Dude's ravenous to fight

[silk comet]

And if you keep doing creepy stuff and slink around the shadows with the bones that whisper sweet nothings to you and have the ability to influence others it's not going to help your public image.

[jagged badge]

That’s like one of the main points of her story

That people thought she was spooky and they didn’t trust her, despite her doing so much to earn trust

She helped us kill Crota, Oryx, prepare for the Pyramids, helped us learn Stasis, helped us deal with Savathûn, mortalised Xivu Arath, and now wants to use the power of the Echo to humanity’s benefit

[chrome fog]

Yet somehow she's helped us defeat Oryx, helped us with dealing with the Shadowkeep, helped us with Stasis partly, helped us with Savathun, helped us in Season of the Witch and Season of the Lost in which we faced severe threat from Xivu Wrath's hordes invading into real space, and for little to nothing in return for it

Suspicion of Eris Morn would've been viable about several years ago when we hadn't had her by our side helping us out

[inner drift]

I’m not saying you’re wrong necessarily but like, how?

[chrome fog]

Really it was only reasonable prior to killing Crota when we first meet her and when she had become a Hive God, as the temptation and record of an alternative timeline where she fell to the temptation of the power; it'd be stupid to be suspicious of her now

[eager trout]

To be fair, Elsie did say she became evil in her timeline

[silk comet]

I like eris morn don't get me wrong. I like her lore and plot points I just guess I didn't read her laugh after death as relief and it's had me questioning if her story would shift into something darker. She seemed almost possessed by some other power influencing her. Guess I'm just tripping though lol thanks for helping me understand context. This episodes got my interests piqued and I'm enjoying the story of it.

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/quick-draw-cowboy-gif-25170342

[jagged badge]

Because she didn’t have the support network she’s had since D1

She didn’t us to help enact her revenge on Crota. Or to help her through dealing with her trauma surrounding her fireteam

[chrome fog]

We do have record of this happening multiple times in different situations

[jagged badge]

Or her bonds with Drifter and Elsie and Ikora and such

[eager trout]

Ok, thanks

[chrome fog]

We have a precise rundown on how to kill a Guardian in the pins, but here's the direct link: #📚lore-discussion message

But yeah like. Ghosts can be difficult to kill but it's not impossible

Heck, enough of them died that I believe Spider used to use them as his vendor currency

Either that or I'm misremembering and conflating it with Ethric Spiral

He had a lot of dead Ghost shells, is the point

[chrome fog]

This is beautiful, thank you

[inner drift]

He does in fact collect dead ghost shells

I’m not saying it’s like unreasonable or impossible

Happens all the time in fact

I was just saying specifically in the Warframe vs Guardian example it was unlikely

[chrome fog]

The commonality of it's occurrence should point to it being a fairly easy situation to replicate

Hell, I think one asshole does it in Crucible once

A warframe can very much do the same

Just shoot the guardian in the head and then pin that ghost when it pops out from it's sentient wavelength form, which it can't hold when it's guardian is dead

[inner drift]

Yeah sure but also the conditions of it happening, if it was that easy then Guardians would be dying a lot more often, like clearly it’s more than just “hit it really hard” because if that was the case guardians wouldn’t even really be all that difficult to deal with

[silk comet]

I'm trying to search but I'm on mobile has there been any substantial speculation about the next big bad coming from this episode? I'm digging the eldritch themes

[chrome fog]

Very much yes there has been

[inner drift]

Yeah no it’s really cool to have something new

[silk comet]

Is there a way to find it easier in this channel on mobile lol

[inner drift]

From what I’ve read it seems like the Taken have literally summoned a god into existence out of sheer desperation for a leader

[chrome fog]

Ghosts were dying enough to have their corpses constitute a currency. Like bottle caps.

It really is as easy as 'shoot/hit them hard enough'

[ember storm]

Sagira was hit by a stray vex bolt without any charge to it and almost died

The distinction is that paracausal power is what causes ghosts to literally explode (devourer bullet that killed Sundance, witness crushing Targe)

[inner drift]

Then why did it need to be explicitly stated that the Rifleman killed caydes ghost with a special weapon of sorrow bullet or smthn? Like idk it just feels inconsistent

[ember storm]

Normal firepower has always been enough to just kill them

Ada killed ghosts with izi

Felwinter killed some with a shotgun

[inner drift]

I guess it’s feasible that not all ghosts are as durable as each other

[ember storm]

They’re the exact same

[chrome fog]

He was meant to shoot Cayde with it but felt especially cruel when Sundance popped out. He did it for the sake of doing it.

[ember storm]

Paracausality just gives them a little extra boost in terms of durability

It is not invincibility that needs a direct counter

They’re tougher than whatever material of metal and glass would ordinarily exist

[inner drift]

Then how come ours literally eats bullets and explosives for like 30 seconds at a time while it’s waiting to rez us 😭

[ember storm]

It doesn’t

That’s literally just video game mechanics

[inner drift]

I guess

[ember storm]

Would you rather your ghost get destroyed and your character deleted for the sake of canonicity

[inner drift]

You have to draw the line between lore and gameplay

Fair enough

[ember storm]

Why does Mario get 99 clones of himself from eating a green mushroom

[inner drift]

Yes

[trim grotto]

As I recommended to Gestalt earlier, the Chaperone lore tab lists the death of a Ghost simply from Arc blades. Paracausality is not required, it just helps.

[chrome fog]

To point back to the list Dova gave us on, Devourer bullets and other such things take away the difficulty of shooting a really small moving target and just directly target the Lightbearer itself, severing/disrupting their connection to the Light and thus leaving them vulnerable to permeant deatg

[trim grotto]

Ghosts are mere metal and glass once you look past the magic

[ember storm]

It’s funny that people seem to not remember

[chrome fog]

Like for example, the end of Chosen; Zavala would've most likely perma died had he been killed while Target was incapacitated with the Light Cage

[ember storm]

Consul literally wore a necklace of dead ghosts

[chrome fog]

Damn did he really?

[inner drift]

We brought up spider earlier

[dim minnow]

and DrCrispy93's helmet

[inner drift]

Idk it just feels like a disconnect between the in canon ease with which a ghost can be killed and the narrative weight always given to one being killed or a guardian being killed

[ember storm]

You can see the bigger circle where the eye is

[chrome fog]

Anyways the Warframe-Guardian match up is always up to the writer itself, as both are still vulnerable to being defeated or weakened to the point that they can be permenantly killed

[chrome fog]

Holy fuck it's kind of more morbid without their shells

[ember storm]

That’s only because we see the deaths of important character’s ghosts

[inner drift]

Also depends on which guardian and which Warframe tbf

[ember storm]

How many missions and activities have started now with a bunch of dead guardian corpses lying around

I know red war had a shit load

[inner drift]

Off the top of my head?

Uh

[dim minnow]

psi ops EDZ and Cosmodrome

[chrome fog]

That is still in itself a decision on who and how you write them both

[dim minnow]

I know there was a Deep Dive where some Guardians were lost

[chrome fog]

The old Titan one with the big Savathun Shrieker

[inner drift]

Yeah but that could be said about any “who would win” in fiction

[dim minnow]

let's see, the "we came down here as a squad of nine incident"

[chrome fog]

The crystals had a shitton of dead ghosts in them

[inner drift]

The entirety of Crota’s shenanigans

[chrome fog]

Yep!

[inner drift]

“Who would win, the cat from stray or the witness”

[chrome fog]

The cat pisses off the Witness so bad they implode

[ember storm]

Both games are in Astro bot, therefore I conclude that master onion would kill them both effortlessly

[chrome fog]

Almost tempted to use but that felt too mean, exuded the right amount of smugness

[dim minnow]

EDZ Dreg that got lucky and gunned down a Guardian when they weren't looking vs Tenno

[chrome fog]

Randal the Vandal

[inner drift]

I mean

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/jujutsu-kaisen-saucelot-bd-bluray-jjk-gif-16541432778784115709

[inner drift]

Given that RNG is an in game mechanic

You could argue

[dim minnow]

Randall aproaching the Tenno while being bombarded by everything they have

[inner drift]

The dregs simply hits a sufficiently large crit

[inner drift]

“YOU CAN SEE IT RANDAL”
“YOU CAN SEE MY TRANSFERENCE”

[trim grotto]

Pardon me if I was a bit laconic earlier
I'm at work, you see, and won't be home for another hour or so

I can provide any sources if I am reminded

[inner drift]

My source is the Truth to Power lorebook

[trim grotto]

TTP at least had a point, unlike Martian Missives

[jagged badge]

Pardon me if I was a bit

[inner drift]

“Pardon me waiter, could I have another round of exotic kinetic hand cannons?”

[hearty dew]

Say that again…

[jagged badge]

[hearty dew]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-fan4stic-fantastic-four-the-thing-say-that-again-gif-9345984830195785978

[next bobcat]

I already made that joke 😭

I guess great minds think alike

But it was when he said it yesterday

[cloud gust]

Do we know how long ago the Great Disaster and/or Twilight Gap was?

[trim grotto]

Centuries and decades ago, respectively

[cloud gust]

Wait Eris has been around for centuries?

[sleek matrix]

Not just eris

[trim grotto]

She moisturises

[sleek matrix]

Alot of the main characters have been around for a long time

[cloud gust]

I mean yeah but she doesn’t have a Ghost

[trim grotto]

I think Alex meant more that she's been Lightless for that long

[sleek matrix]

Yes but eris knows hive magic very well

[ember storm]

humanity was described to have extended lifespans thanks to the golden age

speaker was an incredibly old fuck by the time we met him

[sleek matrix]

When she was down there

[ember storm]

born before the city existed

[sleek matrix]

Eris learnt alot about the hive inner workings

[ember storm]

i think theres also some lore about eva being really old

[sleek matrix]

[cloud gust]

I just assumed that those medical achievements got lost during the Collapse and people didn’t have those types of lifespans anymore

[trim grotto]

To be fair, it isn't clear if it's still the case in the City Age - Eris and the Speaker aside.

Neither of those are perfect case studies, though.

[ember storm]

well i don't assume the tower has only been around for like 10 years

[trim grotto]

What?

[ember storm]

the zavala trailer seemed to imply amanda was among the first to be there when it was just constructed

is that not the case

[sleek matrix]

She was a young kid yes

[cloud gust]

Didn’t it take a fuck long time for the city walls to be built though

[ember storm]

still cranes and shit in the back

[trim grotto]

Amanda arrived after the City was already established, though construction was still ongoing, of course. I believe the main point of that specific scene was that they were looking up at one of the jumpships flying through the sky, still very rare at the time.

[sleek matrix]

If they had cranes and that

[ember storm]

the crowd was gathering before they even saw the ship

[sleek matrix]

It wouldn't of taken long

[ember storm]

looks like the hangar isnt even finished

[sleek matrix]

Probably 3 to 4 years

[trim grotto]

Well, yeah. You don't show up at an airshow if you aren't expecting a plane.

[ember storm]

i mean literally none of them were looking to the sky at all and were instead more focused on the fact they're standing on a tower with a finished floor structure

[trim grotto]

They're looking up at the Traveler

And point out the ship right away as soon as it appears

[ember storm]

yeah so they weren't there for the ship

[trim grotto]

Or they were, because they knew the ship would be there

[ember storm]

definitely just seems like this is the tower just as its finished construction

[trim grotto]

They start clapping as it arrives

[ember storm]

i don't know many airshows that don't fly anywhere near where the people are gathered

literally just outside the city entirely and barely visible for a few seconds before leaving orbit

nothing about this says "people are here to see a planned event of witnessing a spacecraft" to me

especially considering there's still cranes and unfinished infrastructure

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure what that has to do with the point

[ember storm]

the point being i am suggesting "human lifespan tripled" wasn't just an aspect of the golden age considering what we have of the timeline of events

unless the tower itself was very new and Amanda just saw it when she was a kid like 12 years ago

[trim grotto]

Regardless, this scene could have happened at a variety of points throughout the City's history. We know Amanda arrived late into the City's lifespan, and her age could very easily be as presented.

[jagged badge]

Wait I remember I had quotes about this

[ember storm]

hurh

[trim grotto]

Ah, lovely. Lived longer, past tense.

[ember storm]

oh right

[jagged badge]

I think I recall Dyno in the Cryptarchy mention a line from Amanda herself saying something like “I can’t imagine anyone who isn’t a Guardian living that long”

[ember storm]

i came up with the explanation for the speaker being

intrinsic old man politician buff that inhumanely increases lifespan beyond normal capabilities

[trim grotto]

To be fair, it's possible his Magic Anime girl Old Man status had some other effects other than speaking for a god

[ember storm]

the urge to attend consensus meetings required a will greater than that of the witness

[trim grotto]

No kidding, imagine going to a meeting with Arach Jalaal and Executor Hideo all the time

[ember storm]

do you think the speaker would have a spit take with a cup of pg tips if he was alive to learn about the witness

[trim grotto]

a cup of what

[ember storm]

black
pyramid

[trim grotto]

[ivory sluice]

@ember storm what is the shaping slab?

[ember storm]

i believe we literally just like, find it lying around in eris' apartment

[ivory sluice]

Why does it do what it does, do we know?

[ember storm]

it has ties to the power of taking (shapes being a common motif where the sword logic "cuts" you into your new shape)

we just like, do some cool poses in front of it and it strengthens our connection or something

i don't think it's been directly stated

[ivory sluice]

So it has no ties to eris, but rather oryx

[ember storm]

i mean she had it lying around in her apartment so

i don't think she made it herself

but probably kept it

[ivory sluice]

And we don’t know where she got it

[ember storm]

where does she get literally anything

[ivory sluice]

Lol

[ember storm]

she just had a nightmare totem staff whipped up at the start of haunted

[ivory sluice]

Her and drifter are intimate? Or long friends?

[trim grotto]

They only started getting to know one another in Arrivals.

[ivory sluice]

That’s a long time ago no?

[ember storm]

she kissed his hand and he calls her "Moonlight"

[sleek matrix]

There defo very close

[trim grotto]

Uh, that's relative, I suppose, for centuries old people.

[ivory sluice]

Oh that’s true

[ember storm]

from personal experience you don't call someone "Rat" and continue to hang around them for years on end unless you genuinely like them

but who knows

[blazing wasp]

i know

[ember storm]

my question is where did eris get the worm in the little lizard cage

[ivory sluice]

They seem like very close friends, flirty, but never cross the line

[ember storm]

did she just like, pop over to the hellmouth and scoop one up

[ivory sluice]

Is a special worm? Or just worm?

[trim grotto]

I'm all for platonic relationships, but I think their reunion put that idea down.

[ember storm]

just a worm

also like multiple jars of hive eyes

does she

have to replace hers

[ivory sluice]

Fuck I find those all over the place

[ember storm]

do they have a battery life

[ivory sluice]

Maybe she experimented with those until she found a compatible set?

Or backup?

[ember storm]

she did that in the hellmouth

[ivory sluice]

So mysterious

[ember storm]

unless she had a stockpile around specifically so drifter could eat them

[ember storm]

because he does that

[ember storm]

this scene simply reinforced what ive believed for years, btw

popcorn emote is simply the best addition bungie has ever made to the game

its application is endless

[ivory sluice]

I mean, I dunno, this is after the realization that someone has died, but then not really dead right? There’s a lot of emotion, but idk if it’s the same kind of love

[ember storm]

yeah but kiss your hand stare into each others eyes for like 10 full seconds

[ivory sluice]

Yeah that might do it

[trim grotto]

yeah that wasn't a platonic reunion, even after assumed death

[sleek matrix]

When eris died

Drifter lost his mind

There defo lovers

[ivory sluice]

Does saint ever kiss Osiris?

[ember storm]

it is time

MY TIME HAS COME

YES

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2gay-kiss-gif-27172921

[sleek matrix]

There was a cutscene where that happened

[ivory sluice]

That’s what I need. I need that 100% confirmation

[ember storm]

can you believe i got told off for "spamming" by posting this gif once in the morning every day

[ivory sluice]

Was Saint and Osiris together before Saint was an exo?

[trim grotto]

Uh, that would have been the Golden Age

[ivory sluice]

Which Saint would have never known right?

[trim grotto]

Osiris wasn't even resurrected because Ghosts didn't exist

[ivory sluice]

Ohh

[ember storm]

i feel like your timeline is a bit messed up

[ivory sluice]

My lore is weak

[trim grotto]

yes

[ember storm]

[ivory sluice]

Idk when Saint died, or how he died

Or if he even died

[ember storm]

almost nobody knows how they died before becoming a guardian

like 99% of people dont know who they were before

[trim grotto]

Most likely in the Collapse. We rarely know the original deaths of people.

[ember storm]

only reason exos have the same name is because it's literally data encoded into them

their ghost can simply read it out and tell them first thing

[ivory sluice]

So do exos become exos, and then die as an exo, and then ressed as a guardian?

[ember storm]

if youre lucky you might have a diary or literal nametag id like cayde or ana

[ember storm]

yes

[trim grotto]

Pretty much.

Human is scanned, dies, and the copy is uploaded. Exo dies. Exo is resurrected. Guardian Exo!

[ivory sluice]

But exos are only made from dead humans right? There is no live human that died to become an exo?

[trim grotto]

uh

[ember storm]

they are alive when they get scanned

the scan is simply so intensive that it kills them in the process (which is a good thing)

[ivory sluice]

Ahh so you can’t just bring a dead human back

[ember storm]

if there was even a moment where the human body was still alive and the fresh exo woke up to see it, it would immediately cause DER and they'd both be dead