📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

this means she inherently must do vex experimentation

[chrome fog]

That reads more like making the most of a shit situation

[eager trout]

Yeah, but still sus

[chrome fog]

It has to be shit for someone to be saying “Buset!”, I recognize that from a mile away as a Filipino dealing with serious shit

What, because she utilized her knowledge on Vex signals to get them out of harm’s way?

Also nice Transformers: The Movie (1984) reference

[ember storm]

My ursa Titan build is based on soundwave

[chrome fog]

Ough that sounds awesome

[eager trout]

No, just her insistence in trying something risky

Speaking of which, what exactly is the thing that "makes a Vex cry for help"?

[dim minnow]

Guardians probably

[chrome fog]

In fairness it was Sanchez in that lore tab who brought up the topic of Vex signals

[chrome fog]

This would be in reference with the attack on the Exodus ship Maya and the Ishtar crew were on, considering the latter part suggests they were cloning a Vex signal based off a distress signal of Vex origin they just so happened to come across

[eager trout]

I mean in the Winterbite loretab

[dim minnow]

maybe Hive

or Pyramids

[eager trout]

Wouldn't it be something on Neptune, since the Vex were already there when the Exodus Indigo arrived?

[dim minnow]

only thing that could do that would be the Veil

it's paracausal nature was screwing with their systems

[eager trout]

It did erase the Exos

Who have Radiolaria in them

[torpid flint]

well to be fair, if you can find a science fiction story that DOESN'T have scientific minds experiment with robotic AI and fail, did you really write a science fiction game?

Anyway I'm off to drink my radiolaria flavored Kool aid. The funny Clovis guy said it would be fun

[slim girder]

Real kabr behaviour

[uneven canyon]

What gods have we turned into guns?

[dim minnow]

Xol turned himself into a gun for us to use so we can feed him
Touch of Malice was made using a blade taken from the Warpriest, a shroud taken from one of Oryx's daughters, and Oryx's ravenous heart
The crux of Crota was used in the making of Necrochasm

[slim girder]

Parasite houses savathuns worm that we found after it had been excised from her.

[thick bluff]

Xenophage has a guardian in it (kinda)

[dim minnow]

well it does, it's just that the Guardian was turned into a bug because the Hive screwed up a ritual

[blazing wasp]

"Would you still love me if a hive ritual turned me into a worm"

[sick yew]

Oh that wasn't their intention?

[dim minnow]

the Heart of Crota (Hive Wizard that was doing it) was trying to painfully tear the Light out of Omar Agah's body
However, she ended up taking out not just his Light, but also his consciousness as well

and somehow, due to the experimental nature of the ritual, he ended up as a bug

[sick yew]

Does Bugmar still have light in him?

[dim minnow]

yeah

[sick yew]

And they just crystallized him until we found his ass years later

[dim minnow]

at least I think he does

though his Ghost is probably long gone now, so I wonder how he would still have his Light

[sick yew]

I mean maybe it fused with his consciousness in some way

[hazy veldt]

can someone give quick definitive answer who the fuck elsie bray is and why is she exo stranger

that timeline stuff got me so confused

[sick yew]

Exo stranger is just her name before we knew she was Elsie Bray

Back in D1 we just didn't know who the fuck she was

Just like Ana Bray she is one of the granddaughters of Clovis Bray the man who shaped the golden age and is also responsible for the existence of the Exo

[sick yew]

Idk what else you want to hear
She had some stuff to do in the Golden age and afterwards she got stuck in a long ass groundhog day type timeloop until the events that we have right now

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/the-exo-stranger
Ishtar has a few paragraphs about her here.

[sick yew]

The loop always started after Caydes funeral right?

[trim grotto]

Promotion, actually. To Hunter Vanguard.

"Taniks has been dead before," Zavala says.

From behind him emerges Ikora Rey, like a vision. "Let the new Hunter Vanguard bask. He's earned it."```

[sick yew]

Oh damn thats a long ass while then

And each loop always started from the same point onward right? True Groundhog Day style

[trim grotto]

ye

[sick yew]

So its less about jumping between various timelines and moreso just figuring out how to change the course of history into not everyone fucking dying

[trim grotto]

Which, for us, happened when she had us destroy the Black Heart

[sick yew]

What would happen if I were to shoot Elsie in the face now

Would the timeline reset?

Would only she continue to loop and I continue to exist normally

[trim grotto]

We honestly do not know what causes the resets. From her perspective she simply wakes up in a new timeline, but does that mean the one she was in ceases to exist? We don't know.

[sick yew]

Hmmm

[hazy veldt]

ah, so we have a character that is functionally immortal via unknown force moving her back in time

and we also do no happen to know this force

truly a destiny moment

or the entirety of destiny is elsie's deathbed hallucination that would be dope

[sick yew]

I mean I would argue that a Guardian is functionally more immortal than Elsie Bray

Cause her "immortality" kinda sucks ass to be entirely honest

[hazy veldt]

there was a record of ghost running out of light

[sick yew]

Well yeah

[hazy veldt]

also guardians tend to go hoohaa after a certain amount of revives

[sick yew]

Thats wrong

[sick yew]

Out of light in a darkness zone maybe but thats more related to not being able to resurrect

[trim grotto]

I'm not entirely sure what these things you're referencing are.

...wait.

Yes, I do.

That wasn't real lore.

It was unreleased, non canon material.

[sick yew]

We have a sect of guardians dedicated to jumping off a cliff over and over in hopes of some divine enlightenment

[hazy veldt]

death cults

[sick yew]

Forgot what theyre called like but they can do it all day everyday

[trim grotto]

Thanatonauts. They kill themselves in order to study and understand death and attempt to receive visions. They're a Warlock order.

[sick yew]

Crazy people as I like to call them but yeah

[hazy veldt]

ikora was in it as far as i remember

[trim grotto]

Ikora wasn't a Thanatonaut. Not a key member of the order, at any rate. She has likely studied the practice, of course, as did Osiris.

[hazy veldt]

are there any other quirky groups of guardians existing to this day?

[sick yew]

Hmm

There are Hunters

Whole bunch of clowns

[hazy veldt]

this was definitely said by a titan

[sick yew]

Indeed

[fluid peak]

thats a good question, i dont know if any of the named groups of guardians still exist?

[next bobcat]

Taken wizards sometimes use an attack called “taken necromantic gaze” - oryx is super against necromancy though? What?

I’m guessing it doesn’t have lore implications though

[fluid peak]

the sunbreakers were wiped out in the red war, i think the rest are kinda just nebulously out there? the praxic order still kinda exists i think? micah's existence implies the coyotes exist

uhh

[trim grotto]

The Coyotes exist. Nothing has suggested otherwise.

[fluid peak]

i cant think of any other guardian groups, its weird we dont have more

[next bobcat]

Are the hidden guardians?

[fluid peak]

ye

[next bobcat]

There’s another

[sick yew]

The Hidden, Praxic order and shit

[next bobcat]

What do praxic dudes get up to

[trim grotto]

Well there's half a dozen Titan orders. Sloane is part of two of them. There's the Hidden, the Six Coyotes, one of the Hosts, Praxic Order, Thanatonauts, stuff like that.

[sick yew]

Theyre internal affairs basically

[trim grotto]

Imagine Zealots but for the Light

[sick yew]

iirc

[trim grotto]

They respond to anything Darkness related with purifying flame.

[next bobcat]

You’ll have to explain those as well

[sick yew]

Do we know what guardian order was tampering around with the replica Thorn in the Necrotic grip loretab?

[trim grotto]

The Praxic show their age. Their order is older, from a time when all Humanity knew of the Darkness was that it destroyed Humanity, and brought dangers to our doorstep. It was evil, outright and definitively, and they responded in kind. Evidence of Darkness, corruption, artefacts or influence, all of it was something the Praxic sought to combat with their Solar flame.

They are... having trouble adjusting to the modern era of Stasis and Strand.

"They're some of the Tower's best assets. There is always the risk, of course, of… overenthusiasm." —Ikora Rey

[sick yew]

Stasi type shit

[next bobcat]

So what are the zealots up to

Never heard of them

[sick yew]

zealot is a description

Not a name of the group

[next bobcat]

Oh sure

Mb since we were talking groups I assumed they were one

[next bobcat]

Yea I know what a zealot is

But thanks for being considerate

[sick yew]

Gotchu homie

[next bobcat]

[sick yew]

Come to think of it wasnt Asher Mir part of the praxic order too? @trim grotto

[trim grotto]

Gensym Scribes

[next bobcat]

You like gensym don’t you mael

[sick yew]

Fuck right

[next bobcat]

Or at least the armor

[trim grotto]

tis my helmet

There's an entry I'm trying to find from Aunor

bear with me

[sick yew]

Which one

Theres a new one from guardian games is there not?

Shes investigating Spider atm

[next bobcat]

I really need to read more lore

I’m working my way through the Ishtar timeline right now so I’ve really only read unveiling, shattered suns, and books of sorrow

They’re all fantastic

[sick yew]

I personally just like to read what seems interesting in the moment

I dont give a shit about the Hive so the books of sorrow dont matter

Clovis Bray's journal tho

Or Most Loyal

peak

[next bobcat]

Hive are so fking cool bro

[sick yew]

For sure if thats your kind of stuff

[trim grotto]

yeah but it isn't what i'm after
but unfortunately i don't have time to check, i must go

[sick yew]

Rip

[sick yew]

The Sword Logic is a neat concept but for me personally thats about it, I dont like their architecture or their whole magic stuff

Luzaku is the only exception

[next bobcat]

The books of sorrow are also just written super well

I mean so is unveiling

That’s a must read imo

[sick yew]

Ive read unveiling

[next bobcat]

Yes

Good

[sick yew]

Been ages since i did but I sure read it at some point

[little gorge]

i love how they have such a distinct style

like all the lore books really

and they use so many cool writing things

for example when oryx's daughters invent oversouls they explain it like one would in a research paper

and oryx says "speak the royal tongue or you'll become worm food"

[sick yew]

Does the sword logic only realted to direct combat?

Or can I play Uno against a hive and make them lose their right to exist

[slim girder]

Yes it's everything

[sick yew]

So a L in Uno means you are unfit to exist

[slim girder]

Mhm

[sick yew]

lmao

[slim girder]

You're smarter than your opponent

You won over them

[sleek matrix]

Hive have the best aesthetic thou

[sick yew]

I disagree

They are my least favorite one

[hollow hinge]

Imagine

Vex in game have the worst aesthetic

[sleek matrix]

Its very eerie

Which is the intention

[hollow hinge]

Hive have the most diverse and best

[sick yew]

The black garden is right fucking there

Point invalidated

Cease to be, Tox

[hollow hinge]

Everything cool about the black garden has nothing to do with the vex

Bozo

[sick yew]

Thats wrong?

[slim girder]

Depends the place.
I love the pit of heresy and dreadnaught but ghosts of the deep not so much

[hollow hinge]

If it wasn't overgrown then it'd be shite

[sick yew]

The Vex stuff being woven into the overgrowth is precisely whats so cool about the black garden

And places like Whisper and shit are also hella cool

[sleek matrix]

The flowers and stuff?

That isnt because of the vex

[hollow hinge]

^^^^

[sleek matrix]

That has been there for eons

Maybe before time even started

[sick yew]

No? Not the flowers

[sleek matrix]

But isnt that the best part?

[sick yew]

The literal vex buildings everywhere??

I like the combination between it and the overgrowth

[hollow hinge]

Be so fr rn

[sick yew]

Anyway its all down to personal preference anyway

[hollow hinge]

You told me to cease to be lmfao

But sure ig

[sick yew]

its down to personal preference, my personal preference obviously

[sleek matrix]

Hive seasons have been the best

Thats all i gotta say

And if heresy is shaping up to be it is defo one of the top seasons we had in awhile

[hollow hinge]

Hive and Taken expansions too

[sleek matrix]

Yes

[sick yew]

Season of Hunt

[slim girder]

Part of me always feels like that's because of their flood storytelling. They just know how to do these kinds of antagonists well.

[hollow hinge]

One outlier that's still better than any Vex season we've had

[sick yew]

Bungie is scared to make the Vex good cause id make all others look bad obviously

[slim girder]

Hot take i thought splicer was a good vex season

[sick yew]

Splicer was a amazing season maybe the best but not for Vex reasons directly

[sleek matrix]

Chosen arrivals splicer seraph are up there

[slim girder]

And I did enjoy echoes

[sleek matrix]

I would put wish there

[sick yew]

Storywise arrivals was ass

[sleek matrix]

But the story felt abit off

[sick yew]

And gameplay wise it wasnt good either

[sleek matrix]

Im kinda biased when it comes to arrivals

[sick yew]

So am I

[sleek matrix]

Its when i started playing

[sick yew]

Its my most played season by far

And I can tell you as good as it felt back then by todays standards it was baaaaaad

[sleek matrix]

Yea but thats a tough comparison to make

[sick yew]

Either way Chosen, Splicer and Seraph (mostly) are imo the best story seasons we've had

[slim girder]

It's because like lost and wish they were really long.

Story was good but it was just the fact we had to wait months for the actual end

[sick yew]

Which one do you mean now? Arrivals? Cause it was not a good story

It barely was a narrative

It was just a weekly cryptic line from Eris at a time

[sleek matrix]

it was alot of smoke and mirrors

arrivials

[sick yew]

The lorebooks were different but the actual ingame narrative barely existed

[sleek matrix]

but it was the start of the pyramids coming

[slim girder]

Arrivals. i thought arrivals was ok. I saw it as the beginning to this big war we were going to be involved with which was what bungie were going for.

I liked the mystery.

Unveiling

The tree of silver wings

Savathuns eyes

[sleek matrix]

also you had the umbral focusing

system

[blazing wasp]

i did enjoy unveiling long term

"unveiling is a good read about the fundamentals of the universe"
"unveiling is propaganda"
"unveiling is real"
"unveiling might be propaganda"

[sick yew]

Funky shit

[blazing wasp]

metronome

[slim girder]

It's like truth to power.

Can we really trust it?

[sick yew]

Didnt Truth to Power only seem real once and then become mostly bullshit

[slim girder]

It's always been confusing

And many times have people thought it was true and then it end up being false

[sick yew]

Typical

I live simple
I dont trust anything related to Savathun

[blazing wasp]

yes

[slim girder]

Cool idea for a lore book though.
Like if you actually read through all the pathways you can see some cool scenarios

[blazing wasp]

its different

[slim girder]

Then you only help her. Your distrust feeds imbaru.

[sick yew]

If I trust her lies its the same

And if you try to figure it out you get confused and feed it aswell

It literally dont matter

[slim girder]

If you distrust that means you don't know what she's up to.

[sick yew]

I dont care

If she acts up she gets a face full of lead

And if she tries harder ill call up Saint hes always down to break some wings

[slim girder]

Can I just say eris gets top spot for coolest kill.

She put down savathun in one slash

If it had been a decapitation it would have been even better

[sick yew]

I still expect Savathun to pull some shit with Eris' plan

[slim girder]

She got immaru back so she's back to her full resilience again. We don't have anymore leverage.
I would suspect she'll be tailing us when we make our move to get the echo or she'll view it as more us "safekeeping" it for her to snatch at a later date

If we get it, it's not like it's going anywhere so she'll know where it is

[sick yew]

I think shes kinda holding a grudge to Eris

[slim girder]

Nah for hive gods this is what love is.

Fighting and dying is everything

Becoming stronger

[meager coral]

Xivu at least sees eris as a sister doesn’t she? I don’t remember if sav sees her similarly

[slim girder]

Sav would never admit it but it eris could definitely be considered a sibling

Even if she rejects that

She is still a hive god who used the sword logic to carve her throne

[inner pier]

It’s been a while since I’ve talked about lore but do we still not know where the traveler is located on the planet?

I remember that being a huge mystery

[blazing wasp]

roughly

shes in south america, we're pretty confident there

[sick yew]

Well its sitting in Orbit now

I dont believe its synced to Earths rotation either so it just sits wherever

[inner pier]

I would think it is bc it’s always above the tower

[sick yew]

Huh?

I dont think you can see the Traveler from the tower

Or can you?

Did they really add it to the skybox post Seraph?

[blazing wasp]

seraphs shield?

that one's done before the traveler go uppies, no?

[sick yew]

Yeah

I meant whether they added the Traveler to the Tower skybox after season of seraph

[inner pier]

I thought you could

I might be wrong tho it’s been like 6 years since I’ve talked about lore

[sick yew]

6 years ago the Traveler was still actually above the last city

Its literally in Earth Orbit now

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-sitting-sitting-together-ghost-titan-gif-632684277708036116

[inner pier]

Oh

[sleek matrix]

the trav went up in season of seraph

[sick yew]

Big orb had enough of our bullshit (not accurate of what happened)

[inner pier]

I thought it was scared no?

[sick yew]

Not exactly

[jagged badge]

It loved into orbit in an attempt to defend us from the Witness

[sick yew]

Basically Eramis took over Rasputins Warast network and was about to blow the Traveler and half the city with it up and the Traveler bounced to cause less problems for us cause its just so nice

Rasputin sacrificed himself to stop the warsats and then the Witness rolled up with their pyramid fleet

[inner pier]

Is there like a YouTube video I can watch to catch up

[chrome fog]

Technically speaking Imbaru is the implementation of Sword Logic but through wits; “I have deceived and outsmarted my opponent, and thus proven myself more worthy of my power and ability”

[inner pier]

It seems I’ve missed a lot of lore

[sick yew]

Yes

Thers a D2 cutscene archive on the official Destiny 2 channel

[inner pier]

I missed 6 years of lore 😔

[sick yew]

6 years huh

So you stopped before Beyond Light?

During the Shadowkeep year

[inner pier]

I believe so

I remember finishing forsaken

WHY IS IT GONE

[sleek matrix]

i wonder why

[inner pier]

The fucking car collection

[sick yew]

Filesize, being outdated content and it was really not that good

[sleek matrix]

yea

[ember storm]

tangled shore just kinda sucked tbh

the first mission was the best part and nothing else afterward

[chrome fog]

I swear I linked the official summary video from the Destiny 2 channel

[sleek matrix]

forsaken should be free anyway

[inner pier]

Red war is gone too

Sadness

[sleek matrix]

its so old now

[inner pier]

But they want money

[chrome fog]

THERE JESUS. Here’s a sorta quick recap by Bungie
https://youtu.be/om28A9hTST0?si=grfgUGkQ04__biSG

There’s also tools like Ishtar Collective’s timeline and the one in-game in the top right of the destinations page

There’s also these handy resources

;lore

Awwww what

[inner pier]

:lore

I don’t see anything

[ember storm]

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-smiling-cat-grey-cat-cute-cat-gif-2949633679466643461

[inner pier]

;lore

[chrome fog]

Damn I forgot I needed to re-earn regular role for that

[inner pier]

How I get that

[sick yew]

Just gotta talk

Be active in chats

You can check your progress with -rank in #stats-and-commands

[sick yew]

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[sick yew]

For you tho

[chrome fog]

Send enough messages to earn it; can check progress by typing -rank in #stats-and-commands

[sick yew]

I literally just said that my guy

[chrome fog]

The link says “no access”

My b but it do say “No Access” so they might also not be able to see it

[sick yew]

Ah I fucked up the channel

Mb

Almost unlocked the secrets of the staff section hehe

[inner pier]

Huh

[chrome fog]

True lore section of the server

[chrome fog]

Anyways yeah, those should be some pretty good resources to catch up on up on the story - especially the Ishtar timeline - and there’s folks here that can answer any questions about events

[inner pier]

If your staff can you make grasp next weeks dungeon

Please

[sick yew]

Hmmmm

Nah

Ill quickly go and remove grasp from the rotation entirely

For legal reasons this is a joke, we are not bungie

[inner pier]

):

[empty fern]

I think it’s been long enough now

[dapper moss]

xivu the goat

[sleek matrix]

She looks way different

Compared to when we saw her on dreadnought

[empty fern]

You mean this?

Cause that was just her voice (random enemy)

[sleek matrix]

Oh

[blazing wasp]

i believe the actual name of the thingamajing is "voice of xivu arath"

[dapper moss]

yeah have we ever actually confronted xivu arath in her actual body

[blazing wasp]

nope

[dapper moss]

bc to my knowledge it's always just been one of her voices

[blazing wasp]

we've barely even interacted with her

we the guardian have never actually seen how xivu looks like

just us the player

[sick yew]

It really is strange how they've been handling Xivu

I personally still think they're working to have her be the next campaign big bad in Frontiers

[empty fern]

True

Guess heresy really will be about oryx mainly

[sick yew]

Witch Queen was the last hive dlc, afterwards we got Cabal with a flavor of Vex and just Witness shit, then the 3 episodes all focused on the usually lesser prevalent factions aka Vex, Scorn and now Taken

[blazing wasp]

auntie is having a midlife crisis

[sick yew]

If they decide to not make an entirely new faction for Frontiers (which I highly doubt) it'll probably be Hive cause they also are really the only ones (besides the Vex but they're rarely the major campaign focus) who still even have any presence outside of Sol

Unless they were to try and pull a random cabal legion out of their ass there just isn't much left out there new

[empty fern]

Survivors of torabottl

[sick yew]

[empty fern]

Hear me out
Lost force of researchers trapped on a random moon

They’d be a one and done faction

[hollow hinge]

I know they just did the Dread but imo now is the perfect time to introduce a new enemy faction

There just aren't that many Cabal or Fallen enemy factions left

So realistically we're just down to Hive, Taken, Dread and the Vex (that Bungie doesn't know what to do with)

I think Scorn are done for a WHILE

[empty fern]

Very long while

[sick yew]

I mean its always easy to pull a "ayo so there has always been more of them hidden away somewhere that the main group didn't know about" stick

That's essentially what they did with Neomuna

[ember storm]

You know what fallen they COULD add to the game

[sick yew]

Taniks

[empty fern]

Tanika

[ember storm]

Close but no

[sick yew]

House of Scars

[blazing wasp]

SKOLAS AGAIN

[ember storm]

He was related to one specific brand of fallen in D1

[blazing wasp]

SIVA

I LOVE SIVA

[ember storm]

Guess what I got from a bright engram yesterday

[empty fern]

Randal

[sick yew]

Siva mentoned wooo

[chrome fog]

Let the Devils rock, hell yeah

[dim minnow]

That house is extinct

[sick yew]

There was a House of Scars?

[dim minnow]

House of Scar, they died out some time prior to D1's story

[sick yew]

Was Taniks part of that gang?

[dim minnow]

It's theorized that Taniks was a dreg in that House who was abused by its Kell

Then one day, Taniks made himself new arms which he killed said Kell with.

[sick yew]

Based

[dim minnow]

It's not officially confirmed that it was the Scar Kell, but it is heavily assumed to be

[sick yew]

Would make sense

[orchid badger]

im confused about the story, we killed the witness, who witnessed the traveler abandoning their whole world right

[sick yew]

Eeeeh not quite

Basically the Witness was once an ancient race known was the precoursors (or however its spelled) and the traveler was just kinda sitting on their planet

[ember storm]

the civilization we called the precursors wanted to use the traveler to enact what they called the final shape, which would be the complete petrification of the entire universe into an unending stillness

although the traveler granted them gifts to create a literal utopia, they decided a universe without specific reason for existing was worthless

[sick yew]

Like any other alien race the got pretty advanced but at some point wanted answers as to why the hell they existed in the first place to with the traveler said....nothing
So they got pretty angry and fell into ultra nihilism and took it upon themselves to find meaning

Traveler said fuck this and got the fuck outta there to which the precoursors merged their billions of selves into one being which would be known was the Witness and from then on it chased the traveler across the galaxy for untold eons until it at some point arrived here

[ember storm]

through darkness they "witnessed the truth" of existence and so that's what the new entity called itself

[ornate cove]

https://tenor.com/view/witness-destiny2-omw-lightfall-gif-12982933342399004408

[sick yew]

I wonder what they named themselves before that

[ember storm]

the witness didnt exist before that, so

[chrome fog]

Tims

[torpid flint]

Ya know, idk why but I'm annoyed they reused that. Precursors again?

[sick yew]

Wdym again?

Are there other Precursors?

Youre not referring to the Vex subtype right?

[torpid flint]

Bungie's other favorite franchise, Halo. The precursors are well, the 'precursor' to the Flood. Basically imagine flood, but good

[sick yew]

Oh

I mean "Precursors" is more of a discription than a real name

The game never actually calls them precursors as far as Ishtar Collective is concerned

Idk where the name came from but seems the community just came up with it themselves

Caue again, more of a description than an outright name

[torpid flint]

Ahh, that makes sense

[chrome fog]

There’s also the Bungie-verse explanations in that the histories of all their games are, in some way, intertwined

But that’s more tongue and cheek than actually anything; no real impact on the lore or story in any way

[eager trout]

Y'all, apparently there's new Nine lore

[ember storm]

I heard, seven eight nine

Crazy work

[paper gorge]

who is controlling the taken on the dreadnought

[ember storm]

That’s what the episode is about

We don’t know

[paper gorge]

oh ok

[eager trout]

What's Toland doing?

[ember storm]

Jack shit

[sick yew]

Lore wise? Nothing I think

Drifter mentioned him twice in Act 2 but only offhandedly

[ember storm]

If he could he’d be making hive wojaks

[sick yew]

The other one was while Drifter was bravely attempting to throw out some incantations before we entered Eris' throne world

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/755016331115495435/1349880729085153335/Destiny_2_2025.03.13_-_23.28.50.03.DVR.mp4?ex=67d95325&is=67d801a5&hm=60a282c00d9ca1f050b8709e6d18f0cd15dee7faabec9171ddf02136ee800993&

Instantly one of the funniest voicelines in the game I can't lie

[chrome fog]

HHAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I love this

[sick yew]

The way he gives up and still throws in an Aiat for good measure

[eager trout]

What does Aiat mean?

[chrome fog]

Like "Amen" but the more literal meaning is "It will be as it will be" or something along those lines

A bit more solemn than "It is what it is" but that's about the most literal translation to what it means

[eager trout]

Oh

[ember storm]

He tried his best but he’s not I AM THE MANY-MOUTHED HUNGER, I AM THE ALL EDGED TRUTH level

[eager trout]

Who said that?

[empty fern]

Take a guess

[chrome fog]

Xol, I believe

[empty fern]

Xol? Sounds like a xivu thing

[ember storm]

Eris

[empty fern]

Oh yeah

[chrome fog]

"Will of a Thousand" would probably mean a lot of mouths- oh yeah that does sound more familiar

[eager trout]

???

[ember storm]

Crikey

[eager trout]

I don't know much about the Hive

[ember storm]

Actually it’s Will of the Thousands

Riven is of a thousand voices

[chrome fog]

[empty fern]

1000 yard store

[eager trout]

Is Nezarec really supposed to be a god or is that just a self-proclaimed title?

[chrome fog]

Sorta both?

[ember storm]

Well he’s uniquely immortal

He also very much essentially demanded to be worshipped as a god, so

[chrome fog]

This is true, more immortal than even the Hive Gods themselves

[ember storm]

He’s about as god as Crota was

Like you know Greece had a shit ton of gods for basically everything

[chrome fog]

This we gather because he has literally been the only boss to speak after his own death, and not like a recording but like actively speak to us after we kill him in the raid

[chrome fog]

Yeah this is a pretty good approximation of what real calling Nezarec has to the title of "God" (also aside from there being household gods, many of the gods in Greece/Rome were integrated from conquered cultures; in fact, this was part of their imperialization strategy in that they would basically say "Hey, see? This god of yours is basically our god for the same thing!"

[eager trout]

So he's really just a sadist with god complex

[chrome fog]

Much like the Hive Gods, yes

[eager trout]

I'm guessing he can do that thanks to whatever power the Witness gave him

[ember storm]

No that’s just like his thing

Darkness cannot restore lives

[chrome fog]

No he just came out fucked up

Fucked up and fucking powerful

[eager trout]

No, but it can make your "memory" remain "alive"

[chrome fog]

And supposedly he's a failed clone of Rhulk, but the only source on this is some TWID posts

[chrome fog]

Eehhhhh

It's more like he's a weird Darkness entity, one which we assume to be able to hop between vessels

This being derived from that season pass exotic from Plunder specifically mentioning his 4th Tomb

[eager trout]

Which one?

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/delicate-tomb

[eager trout]

Could be that his body in RoN is, which would make sense, since Calus

[eager trout]

Ah, that one

[eager trout]

Tormentors could also be failed or repurposed clones

Subjugators are more perfect clones

[chrome fog]

That and his model in a cutscene where Misraaks' tells us what the relics we hunted down in Plunder were, cut up pieces of his body after the Eliksni came across one of his tombs and felt great power from his body

[chrome fog]

Eeeehhhh

Who's to say

[eager trout]

And I assume the reason Nezarec is like that is because the Traveler interrupted the cloning process and caused him to be "too alive"

[empty fern]

One day we’ll find the treasure with nezeracs knee caps inside

[ember storm]

But then again

[eager trout]

Also, I realized glaives (at least the first three exotic ones) come from Rhulk or his Pyramid one way or another

[chrome fog]

It's more likely it directly hit his corpse with a beam of Light, which allowed his body to regrow (which you can see throughout the Root of Nightmares raid with the Tree that grows and the growth of Nezarec within it)

[ember storm]

The statue depicting Nez in SE is of dadbod Nez

[chrome fog]

Have you done their missions?

[eager trout]

Why missions in plural?

[chrome fog]

For this point specifically, we can presume the same technology that the Witness was able to access in its alliance to Calus and the Shadow Legion was applied to the various Stasis'd bodies of species the Witness had subjugated (all them sliced up and weird statues in the Pyramids) which created the Dread

[ember storm]

Ron nezarec is basically like a baby mouse with a bunch of pink skin

[eager trout]

I did them on one of my characters

It just never occurred to me that glaives come directly from Rhulk and his Pyramid

Only realized when reading a guide for Vow

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-root-of-nightmares-lightfall-disciple-the-witness-gif-15714594593320992912

[eager trout]

With the mention of Rhulk using a glaive and forming a shield

[chrome fog]

So they were originally three separate class-based exotic quests required to get each "Edge" exotic glaive, which I am unsure if they required the completion of Vow but they have more in common with the first glaive we receive from the Relic, which is also supported by how each of them reveal a part of Savathun's plan to create a ton of Hive Lightbearers and how that is connected to the Relic's ability to view into an object's past

Those quests specifically are you cooperating with the Hidden agents on Mars to figure out how Savathun was able to manipulate her situation to create Hive Lightbearers

[eager trout]

Yeah, I know how the quests work(ed)

[chrome fog]

I'm just highlighting that they're more likely to be general Pyramid weaponry than Rhulk-specific

[eager trout]

Yeah, but given how old Rhulk is his glaive may have been the first one

That is left, at least

Also, I saw someone say the Witness made the Dissenters into the Grim, is that true?

[chrome fog]

Unless they've got that cited from somewhere, that seems highly unlikely

Like it was a prominent part of the Dissenters that they were encapsulated in those statues and hidden away

[eager trout]

I also saw something about the Dread Psions being Psions that the Witness lured by offering to turn them into Disciples but then experimented on

Is that true?

How did Finality's Auger create itself?

[trim grotto]

As far as I can tell this thing made itself. Spontaneous acausal generation. My best guess is that there's so much will hanging around that it crystallized. Pure I-am-and-I-gotta. Embodied stubbornness.
This is literally all we know about it.

That, and it was formed in the Sunken Pyramid, of course.

The Boltzmann Gun

[eager trout]

Guardian: "There are no exotic weapons here"

The nonexistent gun: "We'll see about that"

How can some Psions (like Ixel and Qabis) use Arc, Solar, and Void?

[topaz gate]

Arc Solar and void can exist in non-light variations

[eager trout]

Yeah, but how can they use it..without anything?

[ember storm]

Psionic abilities have already been characterized as other elements

Void is just the most common

Ignovun’s helmet and ticuu are empowered with solar psionic energy

[chrome fog]

Light a match and you technically have regular Causal Solar

[tropic agate]

I have a question about the lore. All the vanguards in the tower like ikora, shaax etc all give us mission and talk with us and help us during the destiny story line. But I never quite understood how powerful they are. Like hypothetically, if they were a boss or to help us how strong would they be? Because we as a guardian are pretty op being able to beat many bosses throughout destiny. But what about all the other high ranking vanguards how strong are they? Compared to us and other bosses we faced so far.

[ember storm]

Ikora is said to be one of the top ranking guardians of all time

Zavala has been trained by one of the earliest defenders of humanity (Saladin) and has been active since before the city even existed

[tropic agate]

But how strong would they be?

If they would be bosses for fun or fight other bosses?

[ember storm]

Powerscaling just isn’t something I’m a fan of

All I’ll say is that Zavala and Ikora personally went to slay the Undying vex mind on their own like a dozen times (something that required us a fireteam of 6 to do)

[tropic agate]

Ah

So us as a guardian don’t compare to them I assume

[ember storm]

We’re basically just the Gordon freeman of guardians

Everything we’ve done could’ve been done by someone else

We just happened to be the one there to do it and got a rep for these activities

[chrome fog]

It’s also not to say what we’ve done isn’t incredible, it’s pretty dang impressive that we’ve gotten where we are; it’s just that it could’ve been anyone to do what we’ve done

Which is somewhat the point, it’s up to the player to insert themselves into the role of the Guardian and chart out their Legend

[eager trout]

Let's just say that, if Ikora used only Void in the fight, she could wipe your entire team with a single, non-wipe attack, without you having been able to hit her.

[eager trout]

We make our own Destiny

[eager trout]

We are John/Jane Guardian

[topaz gate]

Destiny scaling is so stupid I just wouldn’t recommend it

[raw hazel]

(power scaling in general)

[sick yew]

Half of them boil down to shoot gun anyway

And the other half are godlike beings we also shoot gun at so it evens out at the end of the day

[topaz gate]

Atleast some creators care about consistency

[dim minnow]

Guardians looking at eldritch horrors like Pennywise be like:
"I wouldn't even keep you as an unused exotic in my vault"

[topaz gate]

It’s hard to scale someone who goes from “Random Dreg can kill them” Vs “Killed one of the strongest beings in the universe”

[slim girder]

Scaling has always been weird in destiny. Liberties need to be taken to make a compelling video game.
But in the actual world of the game guardians are actually some of the most fragile beings ever and prone to things like fear.
Take darkness zones or any truly big boss, sure in video game terms it's just a no respawn zone against a big boss. However in a guardians perspective they are facing CROTA, murderer of 1000s of guardians and they don't get a second chance.

As a community we have laughs and fun doing all of the cool new activities in beating bosses but in the actual world of the game these are all like genuine threats.

[raw hazel]

Still upset about Kratos v Asura

[fresh zephyr]

We’re getting a new villain

😤

[raw hazel]

But also Destiny in and of itself is something quite hard to scale just because of lore inconsistencies as mentioned above

Where in the early days a single dread could kill a ghost but later on you have so many varying rules or circumstances on how or what can actually kill them

Which they have tried to rectify as time went on to imo middling success

It’s the issue when lore spanning years is written by numerous in-house and out-house employees, contracted writers, etc

[dim minnow]

episode was just bad

Ghost Rider vs Spawn was peak though

[slim girder]

Yes. My theory is that they'll be this Cthulhu-esque entity in the dark given all the tentacles, eyes, suffocating terror and deep imagery.

[raw hazel]

gods it was so bad

[dim minnow]

I'm still thinking about the Not-Worm

the Great Quiet Thing

[slim girder]

Yeah that's also a weird one. Hinted at in echoes and then just never touched on.

[dim minnow]

I think it is possible that this entity that is trying to take control over the Dire Taken is the Not-Worm

[slim girder]

I think any theory is as good a guess as any. For the first time in a while it's a big mystery which imo is nice for once. Just the knowledge that something is there, that's it.

No idea what or who it is and what it can do, just some descriptions.

[dim minnow]

it does seem to generate simulations, so thre could be a Vex element to it

[slim girder]

Taken apparently singing to it, echo oryx and xivu sensing it

Wonder if savathun will ever have any input or if she actually knows something

[fresh zephyr]

Is it not Rhulk?

[slim girder]

No. Rhulk is dead dead.

[fresh zephyr]

It’s slightly terrifying there’s something stronger than the Witness

[slim girder]

"There is a new hand in the knifes hilt" is something said in the new lore.

[fresh zephyr]

Oh shit

[sick yew]

(Us)

[fresh zephyr]

Someone has replaced The Witness nooo

Not my Witness

[slim girder]

The witness was the first knife so I feel like there was bound to be more.

[fresh zephyr]

In lb4 we have a boss fight against Taniks, Replacement Knife

Herald of the Octopus

[slim girder]

I think act 3 we'll finally get an actual peek.

[fresh zephyr]

I mean it’ll be funny in retrospective because we look back and realize the reveal was right in front of us with the eyes

And the tentacles

[slim girder]

Well yeah but by then we'll get to see the source of it all and what this new entity is. Oryx os describing it as possessing the similar abilities as the winnower. So it's definitely something powerful on a cosmic level. We haven't seen that kind of power since the witness

[fresh zephyr]

Could it be the Ayelids?

Wait no

[dim minnow]

Ahslids?

[fresh zephyr]

That’s Elder Scrolls

Yeah

The Reef one

[dim minnow]

nah, they dead

Reef Ahslid?

[fresh zephyr]

You know the nightmare people? Idk how to explain it

[dim minnow]

Aphelion?

[fresh zephyr]

The one the Awoken talk about

Yes!!!

[dim minnow]

ehhhh

they're really just predators that stalk the Reef

[fresh zephyr]

God Frontiers is going to cook

I mean they did say it would shake up the Hive pantheon

They didn’t lie

[slim girder]

Act 3 is going to be the big one because the whole episode system is supposed to be what brings us into the new saga.

[hollow hinge]

Hold up this is a cook

The echo of navigation can help us navigate to the other echoes

And the next one takes us out of Sol

[sick yew]

Werent there only 4 echoes anyway

2 are "dealth with"

The 3rd is the current focus

And 4th idfk let us find that in a random fucking strike

[hollow hinge]

1 is dealt with. The other disappeared into the Vex radiolaria

And why would we think it's only 4?

For all we know they'd stick to their original plan which seemed to be 9 judging from the cutscene

[sick yew]

Didnt we see 4 of them in the cutscene?

4 objects being tracked flying out of the traveler

[hollow hinge]

9 came out of the traveller

[sick yew]

huh

Guess I didnt look close enough

Oh well

[hollow hinge]

I could've sword there was 9 when I played but there were only 3 in this one cutscene on yt....

[sick yew]

Mean this?

[fresh zephyr]

I want Oryx to stick around

His presence is very welcome

[sick yew]

His voice*

[modern lodge]

Dude is that evil alex

Alex's evil twin xela

[sick yew]

[lusty pewter]

Eris did say The High Heresy will be his prison

She might keep him around for knowledge or help on how to beat the hive

[next bobcat]

Honestly I’m a big oryx fan

Especially after reading books of sorrow

[lusty pewter]

Who isnt

[lusty pewter]

Same he is in my top 3

[next bobcat]

Probably all the species he eradicated

[lusty pewter]

[next bobcat]

My top 3 are unveiling, books of sorrow, and shattered suns in that order

Mainly because they’re the only ones I’ve read

[trim grotto]

If you want a smattering of lovely stories, try Ghost Stories.

[lusty pewter]

Ive read others but i have the books of sorrow first place then unveiling then shattered suns

I wish we had more on rhulk tbh

[trim grotto]

Shattered Suns was a strange one to read, haha

[next bobcat]

I’m going through the Ishtar timeline, but yeah I’ll take a look

[trim grotto]

ahh sure

[next bobcat]

Had some… disturbing parts lol

[lusty pewter]

Yeah mainly cause of how it is written

[next bobcat]

But rhulk’s gonna rhulk

[lusty pewter]

Ngl i see nezerac more terrifying than him

[next bobcat]

Yeah I get that but we have barely any nez lore

[lusty pewter]

If you’ve read the stories from the raid set

Yeah same with rhulk unfortunately

The new dungeon had me surprised on what he was hiding

[trim grotto]

Rhulk was a brute, under his façade. Nezarec, however, knew how to destroy a person mentally.

[lusty pewter]

Well said and the fact he can return after he dies makes it more terrifying

You cant finish off the concept of fear from the universe

[next bobcat]

Lore book?

[lusty pewter]

Nope its within the quest i think after you kill the final boss the vault opens behind him

[next bobcat]

I haven’t done that

What’s in the vault?

[lusty pewter]

Same but I’ve seen it on yt

[lusty pewter]

Spoiler: apparently rhulk hid the chisel that Oryx used to carve the tablets of ruin

[next bobcat]

How’d he get it

[trim grotto]

How'd he get any of his stuff? Rhulk was a collector.

[next bobcat]

Sure sure

[lusty pewter]

That was unexplained

[next bobcat]

He collects

So what’s the chisel do then?

[lusty pewter]

He loves collecting worms

[fluid peak]

he stopped off at the dreadnaught when no-one was looking

[lusty pewter]

All that i know is that this was the chisel that oryx used to carve The Tablets Of Ruin

[next bobcat]

It probably has power then

[lusty pewter]

Yeah if you look at it it is emanating taken energy from within

[trim grotto]

Something something holy artifact
The tool used to inscribe the secret to Take

[fresh zephyr]

The new voice actor has really grown on me

I just hope that Oryx gets a permanent place in the story, I really enjoy neutral Oryx

[lusty pewter]

Same he’s doing an amazing job so far

[lusty pewter]

As i mentioned earlier eris said her throne world will be a prison for oryx

This is a good way to keep oryx and learn stuff from him

[fresh zephyr]

Plus in all fainess: GIVE YOUR WILL TO ME Oryx wouldn’t have worked for neutral conversation

[jagged badge]

His name is literally King, he’s perfect for the role

[fresh zephyr]

No way, that’s insane

Cinema

He’s such a good VA

[jagged badge]

Yea

Joshua David King

He’s also queer

[fresh zephyr]

Another win

[jagged badge]

Even more perfect for our trans king Oryx

[fresh zephyr]

Oryx and even the Witness supported human rights😤

[hard rover]

Really? Thought they were more "your body my choice" movement

[hollow hinge]

They dipped their toes in both pools

[lusty pewter]

Bungie is cooking with heresy so far

[hollow hinge]

They tend to do that with the last season of the year

[fresh zephyr]

Final week of Act 2 today right?

They said it was a short one

[sick yew]

Actually? Nah no way right

Just two story drops would be insane

[fresh zephyr]

I asked because I wasn’t sure

I know it’s much shorter than Act 1

I need to finish Guardian Games too

[sick yew]

if youre not a Titan dont bother

[chrome fog]

GRAAAAAH ASURA SHOULD'VE WON

[lusty pewter]

Every hive season is great

[sick yew]

eeeeeeeh

Risen

Deep

[fresh zephyr]

Risen was fire

[sick yew]

Tbf deep was pretty neat but not like god tier

[fresh zephyr]

It was the aftermath of the Lucent Hive

[sick yew]

Anything that didnt involve the hive yeah lmao

[chrome fog]

I'd also like to add that by the in-universe definition of Paracausality, it is a power meant to circumvent the conventions which would naturally create hierarchy in the absence of it. Yes, there are ways to measure Paracausal power, it's even something you can feel, but as demonstrated by us many times that does not matter. Any amount of Paracausal power, and the tables can go either way

Aw man the pink overrides my green

[sick yew]

Thats gonna take a while to get used to

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-downey-jr-frustrated-rdj-gif-15041423

And now I can't put on Prismatic because technically on Steam, I don't have the dlc

I might tear this shit off

Oh wait holy shit, the legacy pack is $10 bucks

But Final Shape is $30, I'm going to wait until I have enough

[wispy karma]

where did lodestar come from?

who made it?

[chrome fog]

Seemingly a mortal researcher who's trying to push into paracausal studies

[slim girder]

A scientist named hassan shimuzu. Says so in it's lore tab

At least it could be them but maybe it was from a group of researchers

[wispy karma]

hmmmm

interesting

[sick yew]

What does the loretab detail on the gun

Havent taken a look at it yet

[slim girder]

A researcher deciding if they should go to paracausal research instead of other topics

They're annoyed that their papers don't get published

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/lodestar

The concern is somewhat plausible, because potentially any mortal research into paracausality and how it works could open up Guardians to being vulnerable to any Lightless that would ramp an assault on them

That and imagine if any malicious groups are able to go to another star and recreate that technology that could convert Solar energy into Solar Light

[eager trout]

What technology?

[chrome fog]

There’s a lore entry somewhere that reveals that sometime during the Golden Age, humanity was able to do such a thing

Either humanity or it was another species, but I’m pretty sure it was Golden Age humanity

[ember storm]

I mean we made a gun that literally launches miniature black holes

[sick yew]

The Witness gave us a gun that turns people into orbs that we can use to smack their friends in the face

[ember storm]

Yeah but it’s ugly

Humanity on top as always

[sick yew]

Talking mad shit for someone whos about to be turned into an orb

[eager trout]

It was the Witness who gave us that?

[sick yew]

Well back then we knew it as "The Darkness"

But yes

[ember storm]

Do you remember the plot of arrivals

[chrome fog]

Or alternatively “Voice in the Darkness”

[ember storm]

Pyramids arrive and try to tell us a bunch of shit about salvation and whatnot

We basically just find a weird hunk of wood at the bottom of the tree which we take

Banshee studies it and recognizes it’s a gun that feeds on our light to shoot

So we just use it

[empty fern]

Hear me out, frontiers will be about lightless warlords against the lighted

Also gestalt is pink now

[chrome fog]

What lightless warlords

And yes, I am now pink

[eager trout]

No

[eager trout]

What tree?

[ember storm]

Fuck is a lightless going to do when I rapidly approach with unbreakable

[empty fern]

Whatever bandit gets their hands on the tech that works on guardians

[eager trout]

Lodestar loretab

[ember storm]

Have you been to the pale heart lately

You know the area with the big tree

[eager trout]

I can't

[ember storm]

That’s based on the memory of Io

What about RoN

Have you done Ron

https://destiny.wiki.gallery/images/thumb/a/a9/Silver_Wings_-_Pure_1.png/1200px-Silver_Wings_-_Pure_1.png

Big tree

[eager trout]

Yeah, but never seen the tree

[empty fern]

Now post the gif of Zavala yeeting you during the in game cutscene

[ember storm]

All the white stuff is a tree

That’s like

The entire thing

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-root-of-nightmares-lightfall-disciple-the-witness-gif-15714594593320992912

[ember storm]

You know

The thing

[empty fern]

Also the thing

[chrome fog]

The only ones who might have technology that can actually affect Guardians in a significant way are the Forces of the City and maybe that Psion collective that tried to kill Zavala when he was making peace talks with Caital, and they got it from stealing from the wreckage of the Cage that suppressed the Traveler

[empty fern]

Ah

[ember storm]

No

Wrong thing

[empty fern]

Cabal assassin sub force with traveler suppressing tech when

[chrome fog]

I don’t think they’re going to know about the big ass Tree Stump in the Black Garden being a supposed Tree of Silver Wings

[empty fern]

But it was mentioned here so many times

[ember storm]

If we’re being strictly technical

I think they’re different kinds of trees

But the connection is still there

[empty fern]

Wait

[ember storm]

They’re of the same source and represent the same thing

But the distinction is important

[empty fern]

Where do we fight thr sanctified mind in again?

[ember storm]

Inside the black garden and pale heart specifically, the trees look like actual trees with wood

But on Io and in the Ron pyramid, they look artificial

Like that’s the best the traveler could do at that point

Peculiar

[empty fern]

Or just retcon designs

[eager trout]

Oh, that. What does it have to do with the other tree?

[ember storm]

No?

[chrome fog]

Big stump in yer picture

[ember storm]

It would literally go wood > weird > weird > wood in order of appearance

[empty fern]

Oooo, nice

[chrome fog]

The two have very similar appearances to each other and have some connection to the Traveler directly

[ember storm]

It is definitely important to note that the tree in the black garden is fuckin huge and looks naturally grown

As does the pale heart

But the tree on Io and in RoN was basically just made in the span of an hour or so all at once

Also the Io tree got converted to darkness or something at the end I don’t remember why that happened

[chrome fog]

Smth smth neither have had as much time to grow the complexities which would be what the Light facilitates

[empty fern]

Wheres thay gif of Zavala jump scaring the guardian during arrivals

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-20206394

[chrome fog]

Oh how I missed you, keking doggo emoji

[empty fern]

Oh yeah, gestalt

Were you here when was removed for a short while?

[chrome fog]

I think that was right before I got banned

[ember storm]

Account compromised

[chrome fog]

Wh

[ember storm]

Wasn’t it

I don’t remember when things happened

[chrome fog]

No the compromised account thing came way after being banned

[ember storm]

[chrome fog]

I was being mean to Tox or someone about the lore

It was right off of the Final Shape release and lots of fielding lore questions

[little gorge]

those were dark times

[lusty pewter]

Thoughts on the unknown being standing between The Winower and The Taken?

[slim girder]

Excited because for once we just don't know what it could be.

Just descriptions but nothing we've seen before

[lusty pewter]

tbh the concept of "something" blocking the Winower from the taken is quite terrifying

[blazing wasp]

It's probably not blocking it, and is more metaphorical than that

I think it means that something or someone is currently controlling the taken, a powerful force

Possibly an Apollo antagonist

[lusty pewter]

yeah true and its still something terrifying to think off knowing Oryx himself said "we are not alone in The Deep"

[hollow hinge]

[sleek matrix]

Winnower is more of stand back and see what happens

[fresh zephyr]

Taken Queen is fire

[languid charm]

||Where is oryx trying to go to?||

[agile panther]

And something “carving paths only meant for the Winnower”

[lusty pewter]

According to the echo of navigation he isnt trying to go anywhere he simply wants us to be him

[lusty pewter]

Yeah maybe the nine are responsible(since they are the main theme of the next dlc i think) or something else

[jagged badge]

||Fundament, the homeworld of the Hive||

[eager trout]

What is the Deep and what is the Sky?

Wait a minute

Prophecy may be a hint

A dungeon related to the Nine

Has mechanics pertaining both Light and Darkness

Has Taken in it

And is literally a "Prophecy"

[ember storm]

No not really

The Nine do not have any predictive or omnipotent power

One of them helped Ghaul’s assault on the city by taking out our satellites just to “see what’d happen”

The Sky and the Deep are the hive’s terms for the light and dark

[lusty pewter]

The Deep = Darkness / The Sky = Light

[ember storm]

They also use the names interchangeably with the traveler and the winnower

[lusty pewter]

One turned into mud

[eager trout]

Pretty ironic that despite all efforts of the Witness being directed towards giving the universe meaning, those efforts ended up meaningless.

[eager trout]

Nah, the Nine thing wasn't related to the Sky and the Deep. I meant that the Nine might have something to do with what's happening now with the Taken and the Winnower

[ember storm]

Yeah I know

I mean prophecy literally has no connotation on the current narrative at all

[eager trout]

But it does show the Nine have some control over the Taken, and the Light and Darkness

[ember storm]

We literally were just asking entities who are entirely removed from the idea of ethics and morals their opinion on what light v. darkness really means

[ember storm]

They’re not real

They’re facsimiles formed out of dark matter

[eager trout]

Oh

[ember storm]

Nothing the nine have ever done has actually been light or dark

[eager trout]

Hence, they're what's in-between

Or outside

[ember storm]

They’re not related to it at all

Hence their only answer from prophecy was basically just “we literally don’t care and these powers are effectively the same thing to us”

prophecy is just about using light and dark to get the same end result

[eager trout]

When did Prophecy get released?

[ember storm]

Arrivals

Just before BL

and by just before I mean like 6 months

[eager trout]

Oh, so perhaps that's what the "Prophecy" was about, Light and Darkness being equals

[ember storm]

Drifter literally just says it at the end of the dungeon

“They’re not the same thing, but they can be used the same”

[eager trout]

I don't remember much from that dungeon

[lusty pewter]

Thoughts on Osiris using prismatic(kinda)?

Mix between strand and stasis

[chrome fog]

You say that, and yet the sequences of the bosses somewhat follow the campaign bosses ( or at least I think that’s the theory; there’s something to do with a Taken Cabal boss as the first boss to reflect Ghaul, and then the next was a Taken Captain reflecting Eramis, and then something else but I don’t know the theory off memory)

[ember storm]

I honestly fail to see how three random cabal in a row followed by a completely arbitrary captain is indicative of anything meaningful

Those are literally the only bosses

First is a phalanx then two centurions in cube room

Then Kell

Which also has a bunch of ogres in it

[chrome fog]

He has spammed multiple supers from across the subclasses at his peak (all while also running vex simulation copies of himself to do the same to hold the line in I want to say Six Fronts?), and Ikora following soon after his footsteps in being able to rapidly shoot off supers; it then stands to follow that he’d learn the Darkness subclasses for himself

[lusty pewter]

Even lightless he’s doing crazy stuff🔥

[ember storm]

His vocal cords definitely still work

WE NEED TO DO BETTER you need to take an aspirin

[lusty pewter]

“The zavala before zavala”- ghost

[eager trout]

Peach?

[lusty pewter]

A ghost without a guardian yet

[eager trout]

Ah

From when?

[jagged badge]

She’s been in lore before

Was mentioned in Final Shape, during Micah’s Ghost quests

Now she’s in this lore with Osiris this episode

[modern lodge]

He's got a ghost friend?

[lusty pewter]

Im not sure but she was in a lore tab with another ghost having an interview

[chrome fog]

She’s in Ghost stories and I think the Hidden Dossier too; for the Hidden Dossier part, she and other Ghosts and Guardians were asked about how they regard each other as well as the Traveler and the Light

Ghost Stories is the best lore book

[lusty pewter]

Nope she was just watching him

[chrome fog]

Immaru jelly they gave the ‘Daddy’ moniker to Oryx before him

[eager trout]

Why did Calus bleed when the Witness got angry at him?

[dapper moss]

bc creepy guy with lot of creepy power = nosebleed trope

[eager trout]

Bitness

[eager trout]

shrug

[ember storm]

you know the witness' main power displayed in lightfall was the ability to remotely salami those who displeased it

[fair stream]

I wanna talk about Peach cause she is so interesting.

I was reviewing and rereading all of the lore passages involving her, and she’s got a real interesting plot line that could be culminating in the near future.

So to start, Peach was first introduced way back in Forsaken as a short story of a lore book where two ghosts are being interviewed about their perspective on life, the universe, and particularly the Traveler. One ghost is very reverential, very respectful, and very traditional. The other is a snarky, independent, irreverent sass machine. You can guess which one Peach is.

During the interview she makes comments how destiny and fate are total BS, nothing is assured, and our lives aren’t guaranteed to serve a greater purpose.

[loud tundra]

I never really read lore that much but if I'm going to where should I start

[fair stream]

Books of Sorrow is a very dense text that comes up a lot and is connected to a lot of plots. Reading the most recent lore books always offers a lot of context and additional scenes to the current expansion. I loved the Into The Light lore books and most of the Post-Final Shape lore books.

Personally, I like to just look up random characters on the Destiny wiki, scroll down to the references section, and just read every appearance/mention in sequential order.

[eager trout]

Who's the other one?

[fair stream]

Balthazar, another ghost that makes an appearance with Micah 10 in the FS missions

[eager trout]

Ah, ok

[fair stream]

Anyway, near the end of the interview they were asked about what will they do if they never find their Guardian. Balthazar is like “That’s impossible, of course I’ll find my Guardian!” and Peach is like “Sure you will buddy”. Then she jokes how if she ever gives up on finding her Guardian, she’ll steal someone else’s like Sagira did.

Then the Final Shape happens

She’s out exploring the Cosmodrome on her own and starts investigating some Hive activity. She almost dies, then we track her down, rescue her and heal her.

Then we reach present day, with the new lore tab in Afterlight, the Heresy Fusion Rifle

https://www.destinypedia.com/Afterlight

[eager trout]

Sagira did what?

[fair stream]

It’s a reference to the Curse of Osiris campaign where Sagira temporarily possesses/replaces your Ghost and spends one or two missions fighting alongside the player character as their partner

[eager trout]

Ah, that

Btw, could Aesop be Nezarec?

[fair stream]

In this lore tab, it’s stated that she’s been watching Osiris and Saint get into antics at their apartment for several days. Then she builds up the nerve to break into the apartment and just casually start supporting Osiris (to his complete surprise) when he’s struggling with training.

In particular, there’s a couple lines I want to highlight.

Opening tagline for the gun:
“Best part of having been inside the Traveler? I've got an argument to win."

“Because lately, Peach keeps thinking about all the things that can happen to a Ghost out in the world, all the powers she can't do anything about. But that's no fun. “

And now I can’t help but wonder, is the argument she’s referring to about finding her Guardian. Did she receive some sort of wake-up call after nearly dying and decide to make good on her promise? Is she here to steal Osiris for herself?!

Is she going to become his new ghost?!

[eager trout]

Antics?

[fair stream]

There’s this cute scene where Osiris and Saint are sharing an apartment. They don’t say anything, but Peach keeps watching Saint open the windows to let the fresh air in, followed by Osiris closing the windows sometime afterward. This has been going on for several days

[eager trout]

Funny how it's the one who doesn't need to breathe and always wears a helmet that wants the windows open

[fair stream]

🤣

Oh yeah, another quote I almost forgot.

[eager trout]

...did you just react to your own comment?

Peach just watching a sitcom

[fair stream]

Because I think it’s funny

“Because lately, Peach keeps thinking about all the things that can happen to a Ghost out in the world, all the powers she can't do anything about. But that's no fun.”

[eager trout]

Who said that and what does "but that's no fun" mean in this?

[fair stream]

It’s not a dialogue line. It’s 3rd person narration

[eager trout]

Oh

But what does "that's no fun" have to do in this?

[ember storm]

that's just narration reflecting peach's current mental state

[fair stream]

It sounds like she’s been traumatized or at least affected by how she almost died, and she’s trying to distract herself and/or keep her spirits up

[ember storm]

as in she'd rather have fun watching osiris and saint go about their business

as opposed to having to really sit down and process everything thats happened lately

[fair stream]

I kind of interpret it as, she has been thinking about it, and now she wants to do something to change it, which is why she barged into the apartment in the first place.

She’s trying to low key start a partnership with Osiris

[slow berry]

"But that's no fun" just means that telling Osiris the truth would be a bit of a moodkiller

[fair stream]

That too

[eager trout]

What truth?

[ember storm]

i honestly dont really see it as confirmation of anything

[fair stream]

It’s in response to Osiris asking the question about Why she’s there. She doesn’t want to give it away just yet

[slow berry]

"I'm Peach," Peach says. She adds generously, "I'm famous; you can look me up. If you're not having a heart attack, can I watch you play with Darkness?"

"Why?"

Because lately, Peach keeps thinking about all the things that can happen to a Ghost out in the world, all the powers she can't do anything about. But that's no fun.

"Academic curiosity?"

It's really just that, in that context

[ember storm]

what kind of plot would really come from osiris magically getting a new ghost? because he honestly really did not care much about the light itself, he's operated fine without it

the entire crux of his issues post-hunt was losing sagira

nothing's going to change for the better by just throwing a new ghost at him

[slow berry]

I'unno, but I aint the writers

[ember storm]

peach is there because it's safe and entertaining

she just had the closest run-in with mortality that most ghosts ever will, and she's staying as close to home as possible

that's the point

[slow berry]

I think the idea is less Peach and Osiris but rather Peach wants to learn Darkness

[fair stream]

I also love the nuances of Osiris’s reaction here. When she first reveals herself, Osiris plays along for half a second before realizing shes there. Almost like he thought she was someone else (Sagira). Then he gets really pale, which I think further implies Peach’s presence really reminded him of Sagira and threw him off

[ember storm]

i mean yeah

that is exactly what happens

Osiris waves a hand like he's trying to brush away a butterfly, then spins around in a sharp convulsive motion. "You're not—who are you?!"