#📚lore-discussion

1 messages · Page 192 of 1

fluid peak
trim grotto
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So this is a good idea

desert tree
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true

fluid peak
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Nono mael the awoken shrimply popped into being

trim grotto
desert tree
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wait

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WAIT

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ARE THERE GUARDIAN DOGS

jagged badge
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No

trim grotto
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No.

desert tree
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FUCK

trim grotto
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Well, a Guardian has had a dog. Luna, for example.

fluid peak
jagged badge
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Only humans, Awoken, Exo and Hive have become Lightbearers

fluid peak
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Some guardians do presumably have them as pets(?) (companions might be a better word)

trim grotto
fluid peak
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There's also that one charity emote with a dog that got lore

hollow hinge
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Does the robot doggo count?

chrome fog
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Archie should count, he has the Good Boy Protocol

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Mfw me and the colony ship I’m on get subsumed by a clash of Light and Darkness, opening a tear into reality and forming a baby universe within the wound, then emerging and caterpillar-goo-into-butterfly metamorphose as slightly remixed elf stand-ins: maraoh

desert tree
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oh

chrome fog
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I am being slightly hyperbolic but yes, do read Marasenna

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Or at least watch a video on it

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Also a good idea to look up Orin and Savin, two pretty baseline Awoken Lightbearers; first one becomes the Emissary for the Nine, second one is somewhat a hilarious parody on gameplay-accurate Guardians and how weird actually seeing someone being like the loot goblins we are

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(I don’t remember if his name was Savin but I think it is, please correct me if I guessed wrong)

trim grotto
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Savin-Who-Was-Chao-Mu

chrome fog
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Neat, looks like I still got it

eager trout
desert tree
sage garden
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I've always liked the Lightfall symbol but I've always been confused as to uh, what it even is, does anyone know?

what-are-these-symbols-what-do-they-mean-v0-fto115z00zwb1.png
eager trout
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Well...

desert tree
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Witness version of the illuminate symbol

dim minnow
empty fern
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Always gave me that symbol vibe

ember storm
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Then the top is like pyramids around the traveler or something I thought

dim minnow
# dim minnow

it's like if you took the dot below the triangle and put it inside of it

sage garden
eager trout
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Kinda weird that Lightfall is the only one with a logo that doesn't make sense

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Or that isn't simple

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(To understand what it is)

sage garden
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you could've left out the "is the only one with a logo that" part

eager trout
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💀

dim minnow
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we get it, you don't like Lightfall

sage garden
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I had to replay it on my Warlock for strand so now it has me pissed again

eager trout
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I don't think it's that bad

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Strand is fun

sage garden
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I have very mixed feelings on it tbh

dim minnow
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and as I mentioned, the logo could be a mix of Calus' Loyalist insignia with Witness iconography

sage garden
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the good is really good, but the bad is really, really bad

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at least, that's what I got out of it

chrome fog
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I was gonna say the same, but I guess there are the moments where the tormentors really grind up your rear in how hard they are to deal with

Still, just play on normal if you want the subclass, Legendary isn’t necessary unless you want the free exotic

sage garden
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I started the game right around the final shape so I wasn't there for release so

eager trout
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And what exotic is it?

dim minnow
eager trout
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Ok, thanks

dim minnow
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source: I finally got around to finishing WQ legendary the other day

chrome fog
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You get a choice of the exotic armors that came with the expansion

eager trout
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At least I did part of Witch Queen on Legendary...

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Should be easier now with Strand

dim minnow
chrome fog
dim minnow
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well yeah, you need to complete all missions

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don't even need to be in order at least

eager trout
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So I just need to do the ones I haven't done on Legendary, right?

dim minnow
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you should be able to see which ones in triumphs

eager trout
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Are there any Ghost shells with...functions?

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Multifunctional

dim minnow
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there might be others, but I don't recall them

eager trout
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Closest thing to a Swiss Army Knife is the M3-D1 shell with a red shader I found that makes it look like one

torpid flint
desert tree
torpid flint
eager trout
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Rover Shell though

desert tree
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exact opposite situation for me lol

desert tree
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trying to think of a good Hunter Name to go with a ghost named "Flake"
I have an Exo Titan named "Tenn-4" and a ghost named "Roger" (Military code for acknowledgment)
I have an Awoken Warlock named "Jade" and a ghost named "Loupe" (Jade is a type of gemstone, and a "loupe" is a type of tool used to verify a gem's authenticity)
and then I have a Human Hunter who woke up on Europa with a ghost named "Flake" (like "snowflake" since ghosts kinda look like a snowflake)

dim minnow
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just call them "Snow"

trim grotto
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frosted

dim minnow
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before you say anthing, keep in mind that there is canonically a Hunter named "Ghost"

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also note that Felwinter named his Ghost "Felspring"

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oh, and Tyra Karn and her Ghost can't agree on a good name

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man, it would be nice to see Tyra again

trim grotto
dim minnow
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and her Ghost can't pick one

trim grotto
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A Ghost doesn't consider a name to be their real true name unless their Chosen picks it for them.

desert tree
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what do you mean

trim grotto
desert tree
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you're joking

trim grotto
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But it was more of a nickname than a real name. A Ghost gets their "real" name from their chosen.

trim grotto
eager trout
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So our Ghost is really just Ghost

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While we are Guardian

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John/Jane Guardian, and John Ghost

trim grotto
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Some would argue we are Young Wolf, but yes.

eager trout
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The Guardian and The Ghost

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How exactly did we revive Drifter in Heresy and why didn't his Ghost do it?

dim minnow
trim grotto
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And it didn't do so beforehand because of the whirlwind of bullets

eager trout
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They didn't even show it

dim minnow
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yeah...

trim grotto
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True! Because we've never seen his Ghost.

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They don't have a model for it

slim girder
trim grotto
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Some folks think it's the Kitbashed Shell.

desert tree
trim grotto
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It's a title we were given during Rise of Iron by Iron Lord Saladin.

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People like to use it as it's a bit more of a unique title than "The Guardian".

chrome fog
# slim girder I like to think his ghost shell is i think it's called the fugitive shell. It wa...

Additionally for the Kitbashes Shell support, there is a loretab that features Drifter and his Ghost being stranded beyond the Sol System on an ice planet along with some other Lightbearers, when the Red War occurred and Ghaul had greatly severed everyone’s connection to the Light via caging the Traveler. As if that weren’t enough, they discovered some kinda goopy Darkness thing was hunting them down, killing them one by one. Drifter and his Ghost then decided the best course to make it off that forsaken ice cube was to take the parts of the others’ Ghosts and boost Drifter’s Ghost so that Drifter could access power “Beyond the Light” (title drop).

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This process also prevents his Ghost from ever being able to speak, the last thing it said to him being “For what it’s worth, I’m proud of you”

slim girder
plain sequoia
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Theres so much bungie could lean off of if we leave sol that im curious

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Weve had two fireteams leave and a bunch of mysteries come from outside that im very interested

chrome fog
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I’m curious who’s the second, it’s been a while

sick yew
chrome fog
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Vaguely remember that, which all tracks

next bobcat
eager trout
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Because Ghosts are born with a shell

fresh zephyr
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If Eramis has moved on, does that mean we get a friendly AtraksđŸ˜±đŸ˜±

jagged badge
strong tendon
jagged badge
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It was Atraks who inspired Eramis to establish House Salvation in the first place

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She really believed in it, and I can’t think of a reason she’d be against it now, if she was, yk, in a state to have that kinda autonomy and not a dead, once-puppeteered corpse

chrome fog
eager trout
chrome fog
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No, as Light must be given in following with the thematic narrative connected to both also affecting their literal properties

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Darkness must be Taken, Light must be Gifted/Given

tall lake
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Lore masters, who are the nine? Where they come from etc

jagged badge
# tall lake Lore masters, who are the nine? Where they come from etc

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-nine#book-dust

The Nine — Entry — Ishtar Collective

—
I am.
I am I am I am I am I am I am I am I am I am I am I.
At first this is all the loop of dust can calculate. It is the hardest thing in the universe for the dust to make a loop at all, because, like a gust of wind or a river, it was only meant to move one way. For a mind to function, the end of one thought must alter the beginning of the ne...

eager trout
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So basically, we don't know

trim grotto
eager trout
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We don't know what the Nine are

trim grotto
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Read Dust, particularly the entry Eris just linked.

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We know exactly what the Nine are and that link explains it.

eager trout
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So they're...dust?

trim grotto
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Dark matter formed into loops by the gravity of the solar system.

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Given form by gravity, thought by life.

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They're basically Boltzmann Brains of dark matter

eager trout
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Thought by what life, though?

trim grotto
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All life in the solar system

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So the Nine awoke. ```
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We are all pinched silhouettes impaled on the twitchings of infinitely long spiderlegs.```
eager trout
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Who's Lavinia?

trim grotto
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Read Dust. It is an excellent lore book.

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She was a Cryptarch.

ember storm
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Spoilers: forgotten character never touched up on again

eager trout
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Based on the entry...more proof that Bungie likes crazy women (or at least the lore writers do)

trim grotto
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It was not her, per se. Those who seek the Nine oft go mad because of it.

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The same thing happened to Orin.

eager trout
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Hence, she's a crazy woman

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What's the origin of Tesselation? It's pretty much the only pre-order weapon that doesn't have a clear origin/lore

dim minnow
eager trout
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It kinda looks like the Witness going into (or coming out of) the portal to the Pale Heart

eager trout
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What does Tesselation's lore tab describe?

slim girder
# chrome fog Darkness must be Taken, Light must be Gifted/Given

Not exactly.
Light is given yes but darkness does still require some apparatus to acquire. For example stasis we needed a splinter and for strand it required proximity to the veil.
To our knowledge you can't just learn darkness by focusing really hard. There has to be an outlet.

chrome fog
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Counterpoint to that, Osiris. Additional counterpoint, Elsie.

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And Eris maybe

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For two of those, you can argue they have some form of Paracausal connection, but a reminder that both had lost their Ghost and no longer can access the Light; for the other (Elsie) they never required any apparatus to access Stasis, in fact a major point of Beyond Light was learning how to tap into and utilize Darkness without succumbing to the Witness’ interference

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In a more literal sense, you could say that there needs to be a Source that one Takes Darkness from, which I would agree is a technical basis for Darkness requiring something for one to wield it

eager trout
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Didn't Elsie use something she stole from House Salvation?

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Wait, wasn't it the fragment Variks had?

slim girder
# chrome fog Counterpoint to that, Osiris. Additional counterpoint, Elsie.

Osiris since arriving on neomuna has done nothing but study the veil. In fact for pretty much the whole period from lightfall to final shape that's what he did so it makes sense that he'd pick something up from it and even in lightfall he showed signs of knowing about it when talking with nimbus.
Elsie stole a splinter from variks as he was calling for help from europa, Eris while investigating the statue on the lunar pyramid exhibited stasis when she touched it.

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Drifter is the only one that we truly have no knowledge of how they came into contact with stasis.

eager trout
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Didn't Drifter do something to his Ghost that allowed him to use Darkness?

slim girder
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No idea. Drifter has always been a mystery. We know some of his backstory like his name, connection to the nine and some of the crews he's been with but other than that nothing

hollow hinge
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Iirc we've been told that anyone can learn and master stasis

chrome fog
hollow hinge
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Sure the splinters make it easier to make that connection but it can be done without it

slim girder
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Mastering darkness is about force of will because it can corrupt the user.

hollow hinge
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I don't see Zavala taking a splinter

slim girder
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Ikora taught him to use it. There could definitely have been a splinter involved when teaching him.

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She would know where to get it from

chrome fog
hollow hinge
hollow hinge
eager trout
chrome fog
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I do believe that gradually, post-BL lore entries had been building up the notion that Guardians are able to learn Stasis without the reliance on the Ziggurat and its Splinters

slim girder
dim minnow
eager trout
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Stasis freezes you if you're not strong enough

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Strand unravels you if you're too strong

dim minnow
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just if you aren't using it properly

hollow hinge
hollow hinge
slim girder
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Strand has always been about "flowing like the river" trying to control it just results in it sweeping you away

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I like to think of strand like how ikora views arc
"Power channeled not controlled"

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Even when we were learning strand we were told to hold nothing back and "let go"

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Stasis on the other hand is about enforcing your will onto the world. And stopping something on the molecular level.

eager trout
eager trout
chrome fog
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Eh

eager trout
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It's the closest thing

chrome fog
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Moreso Stasis and the abilities of the Witness followed very similar ideological approaches to control

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Because aside from those, there’s no correlation aside from “Is Darkness Powers”

eager trout
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I mean, the Final Shape of the Witness is basically things being cut apart by Strand and frozen by Stasis at the same time

chrome fog
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Are they though?

eager trout
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Chaos unraveled

slim girder
chrome fog
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I mean it is an interesting perspective on their abilities, but the shared characteristics of the Witness’ power and the Darkness subclasses moreso draws from both being sourced within Darkness, which itself requires a very specific mentality to harness

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Perhaps you could say that it shaped away the aspects it didn’t not need from Stasis and Strand to utilize specific abilities independent of the elemental context we consider them in, but then that just has the same issue of a lack of connectivity aside from the shared Darkness origin

eager trout
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One thing though

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Stasis came from a Pyramid

hollow hinge
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No

eager trout
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At least initially it's how we got it

hollow hinge
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The pyramid helped us unlock the power of stasis but the power was within us the entire time

slim girder
chrome fog
# eager trout Stasis came from a Pyramid

A misconception which Beyond Light helps us address: Darkness - and by extension Stasis - is not supplied by the Witness. That was solely a narrative it had built up through implicit influence through the Darkness so as to reinforce its goals as inevitable

hollow hinge
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Which was proven in the campaign when we mastered it after having the splinter taken from us

eager trout
dim minnow
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Ikora was able to teach Zavala Stasis, but we never saw him holding a Splinter

hollow hinge
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So no it wouldn't make any sense lol

chrome fog
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Theoretically one with an understanding of Paracausality and ability to harness it can just use Stasis, or even Strand or any other darkness ability

eager trout
chrome fog
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And also moot to the point of Eevee

chrome fog
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But I’d actually like to see you pursue this throughline, maybe there’s actually something which hints towards that being the case which most others have glanced over in parsing the lore

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Whatever else you might find would also be a way to elaborate as to the nature of Darkness and the ways in which one has to approach it in order to control it

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What are its slicing attacks and segmented structures if not Strand debuff Severance? What is a universe in complete stagnancy and stillness if not eternal Stasis?

dim minnow
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though you also got to take into account what each Darkness sublass is mean tto be

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Stasis is heavily tied to emotion while Strand is tied to interconnected consciousness

eager trout
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Well, just thinking quickly now, there's similarities between the "river of souls" of Strand and the mentality needed to use it, and the ritual/process through which the Witness' species merged into one being. If the people are the river of souls, the ritual consisted on building a "dam" that would hold the river until it became a lake (the lake being the Witness)

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Strand manifests when the Veil is nearby, and we know the Witness species found the Veil before merging

slim girder
chrome fog
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I like this interpretation, feels like something we touched on in this channel before leading up to Lightfall

eager trout
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Also, the Witness species are called the Precursors, right?

slim girder
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Yes

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Well that's what we call them

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We don't know if they had an actual name

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Aside from "The penitent"

chrome fog
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I was going to say, there hasn’t been an official title granted to their civilization

chrome fog
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That one’s a good one

slim girder
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The penitent was I believe the faction that just made up the most of that civilisation

chrome fog
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Whole huddle of Tims’ souls in one form

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HaHA love a theory being kinda right

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Sorry, was trying to find out if it was Tims or a different name

eager trout
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Despite being about stopping chaos, Stasis looks pretty chaotic when we use it, and generally forms into pretty chaotic constructs. However, we also see that it looked slightly different when used by Elsie, Eris, and Drifter, as well as Eramis and her council. It's possible that Stasis manifests slightly differently on each individual, similar to Green Lanterns' power, which is also based on will, and will vary in appearance depending on the user.

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And the Witness had spent such a long time focused on a single goal, that its will no longer had room for variability, and therefore manifested in an extremely refined form

slim girder
eager trout
chrome fog
eager trout
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Well, entropy is "chaos" as in unpredictability, and Stasis is about stopping entropy

chrome fog
# chrome fog The “Chaos” aspect with Stasis was moreso the Witness’ perspective on life in th...

Under an academic lens you can make a reach and parallel it to the co-opting of the Ubermensche by a certain socialist party (which is definitely intentional, the upper narrative of Destiny really is about combatting existential nihilism through accepting the universe as it is and all the variety it brings, which nihilism itself is the roots of many dangerous rhetorics because it redirects that sense of helplessness towards evil)

eager trout
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It's really the people who make it evil

slim girder
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Thoughts and ideals

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These forces are just tools of the universe

chrome fog
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Going back to the discussion of the Darkness subclasses and the Witness’ abilities, RetroPhoenix hit the nail on the head with these abilities being heavily tied not only to a general understanding/mentality one must be in to harness a subclass, but it is also highly interpretive to each individual user and has room for different perspectives to be attributed to one’s mastery of Stasis or Strand

For the Witness, it understood the Darkness as a tool to unify the universe, all of dictionary definition-literal reality, with its own perception of what it wanted things to be: unchanging, non-contradictory, “orderly”. It took all of that baggage and incorporated it so heavily into the control of Darkness (which it solicited to those vulnerable to its ideology) that we had thought that was all the Darkness was about. Now, we know that the Darkness is entirely divorced from that concept of “Controlling the Chaos of the universe, restraining it to a singular indeniable goal”, we can now approach Stasis with a mentality of actualization instead of dominance

eager trout
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when you realize you're neither mentally strong enough to use Stasis nor flowy enough to use Strand

blazing wasp
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i'll just tank the backlash from strand

eager trout
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Bro thinks he can tank being unraveled on a quantum level

trim grotto
blazing wasp
dim minnow
chrome fog
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Oooooo baby I need to find more of my long posts here, some of them I’m proud of, I know a did a couple more like this on the Witness’ outlook and how that ties into the broader themes of Destiny
#📚lore-discussion message

slim girder
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Good thing ikora was watching Zavala lol

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And ikora can use strand which is pretty cool

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Hoping we see her use it one day.

eager trout
dim minnow
eager trout
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When you think about it, Strand and Stasis represent Osiris and Zavala's respective arcs

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But I'm not thinking about it enough

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So they don't

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I need to sleep

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I want green space spaghetti

dim minnow
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when you think about it, Strand and Stasis are both very similar to aspects of the Force

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like Stasis tying into the emotional aspect where control over your emotions is needed otherwise the power corrupts you (like falling to the Dark Side)

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and Strand being seen as similar to "the will of the Force"

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as well as a connection between all living things

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there was even a lore entry that described a titan using Strand to foresee her enemies next movements

chrome fog
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The Weave, funny little thing you are

dim minnow
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but the moment she started trying to hold on too hard, she started losing

plain sequoia
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Question rq

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Why havent the fallen become guardians

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Or havent seen any yet

slim girder
plain sequoia
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Would be cool as a storyline

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Traveller branching out more seeing as the witness is gone

slim girder
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It's safe now so I believe the next step is really to sort out the echoes then look to the future

hollow hinge
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The way I see it, the traveller gave the eliksni other gifts

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It chose the Krill/Hive but didn't get to them in time to give them any sort of gift, so in WQ it got the chance and gave them the light

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Or was it more just the fact that they were chosen long ago and only in WQ did the ghosts without guardians explore that possibility?

ember storm
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they just never got their chance at all so the traveler didn't prevent any of the ghosts from making their decisions at that point

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nothing explicitly says that the hive would've originally gotten ghosts

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from what we know, races would just integrate light into their technologies (sacred splicers, precursors with the radial mast, etc)

sick yew
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Elsie did it too

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To make her funky ass Vex emp

slim girder
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Obviously we don't know if that's actually how someone becomes a guardian but I feel like savathun was confident enough in that plan to put her life on the line for it.

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To the point she was even thinking it'd be funny if the traveler just let her die after everything.

ember storm
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there is no quota

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it is what the traveler HOPES risen achieve, according to unveiling

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but if there were any prerequisites to becoming a risen it would defeat the entire point of "Anybody will choose to do the right thing if given the chance"

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the speaker tossed the speech around to try and reassure guardians as a means of "This is WHY the traveler choose you, you're all good people, don't worry about it"

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when the traveler says those words in forsaken and FS, it's used in the opposite context

slim girder
# ember storm that is not a quota

Unveiling should be taken with a grain of salt though as it is directly from the witness.
Also I said that we don't actually know if that's what needs to be done but since the speaker said that I think that it does hold some value in the process of who becomes a lightbearer after death.

ember storm
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he preached about all our enemies being those of the darkness and banished people like Osiris who had differing opinions over what the Traveler really intended

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the guardian tenets are tenets, not a requirement

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they are what the whole "city ringed in spears" ideology represents

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Savathun's resurrection was orchestrated by both her and Immaru, and the Traveler simply allowed them and other hive to be resurrected because it hoped they would get the chance that the witness took from them

slim girder
# ember storm the speaker was specifically a religious zealot who manipulated everyone for the...

He was still a person who could hear the traveler. Even though it wasn't speaking directly to him.
I'm not saying he was a good guy but again he was able to hear the traveler and I believe that the guardian tenets do hold some merit in the choice of who becomes a lightbearer.
Obviously there is no confirmation on this and I am being speculative but that's just my 2 cents on how savathun became a lightbearer. The traveler created the ghosts but those ghosts are still allowed to make choices good or bad. Not like the traveler prohibits them from resurrecting the wrong person.
Savathun even captured ghosts and coaxed them into bringing back hive because "You want to help the traveler right"

ember storm
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or Cayde-6 of all people

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he definitely did not

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or an ai without any humanity implanted into an experimental exoframe and left in an old library

slim girder
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Exceptions can happen. And it's been many years since those figures became lightbearers.

ember storm
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even if you assume them to be a real substantial thing

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in what way has savathun ever exhibited bravery?

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or sacrificed anything?

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oh boy it sure is a hard decision to have the living parasite that feeds of genocide removed from my abdomen

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she intentionally killed herself with a shard of the crystal because she wanted to die to be rezzed there, there wasnt any sacrifice

slim girder
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She was already on deaths door after her worm was removed

ember storm
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immaru was waiting on the cliff for her

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it was planned

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savathun wanted to die as soon as possible to get rezzed as soon as possible so there was no threat of her corpse being captured or anything

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she also had her most trusted hive witch waiting nearby to ferry them to the throne world

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since it was collapsing the moment savathun died

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she killed herself with the crystal, the only reason she acted theatrical about it is because she planned for us to view it through deepsight later

slim girder
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Not like she knew 100% it would work.

ember storm
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i mean then dies knowing that everything else would die anyway because we'd have no way of stopping the witness without her, so

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still not much sacrifice on her part

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she knew she'd either be there with us when we destroy the witness, or nobody would at all

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its still not even technically the original savathun we're dealing with now

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it's one devoid of any real personal connection to her past or her family

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she wasnt upset over being led astray back on fundament, she got upset that she was tricked at all

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its also why shes basically just emotionally distant to both her siblings right now

slim girder
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Immaru did as any ghost would do and told savathun who she was and where to go, then a wizard showed up to guide her back to her ship because as a lightbearer she wouldn't have any memory. Like if you play destiny now you're ghost tells you about yourself depending on class.

ember storm
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normal ghosts don't preplan their fashion to perfectly align with what their unknown guardian is going to look like

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he was already fully donned in a hive shell

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it was planned from the beginning, it is definitive

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how would he even know where she was to begin with

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ghosts don't have any sort of knowledge of where their risen might be, they have to scour every single location for every single corpse they can find

slim girder
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Except for when they're born of course as we saw in the final shape

ember storm
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like what he just happened to be a really really big fan of the hive and omigosh there's a dead hive god on this cliff right here what a coinkydink

slim girder
#

Well remember what fynch said about making the right choice not meaning you have a lot of options.
Our ghost absolutely despises the hive, fynch was desperate as were other ghosts who joined the hive, who's to say immaru wasn't also desperate?

ember storm
#

Savathun found a ghost who was already negative towards humanity and guardians in general, and promised him a position of power

#

he literally calls himself daddy over comms

#

during season of the witch, immaru directly mentions that he was honestly ok with savathun being dead because he was then their sole acting leader

slim girder
#

Hell he even did the normal scan all ghosts do before ressing.
If he already knew who it was why do that at all? In fact during that cutscene it fades to black indicating when she died a while had passed before immaru found her. Not like he popped out the second she stopped breathing.

#

He was searching like any stray ghost does

ember storm
#

it would be debatable if he wasn't LITERALLY already wearing the 1st Hive Ghost shell to be specifically worn by Savathun's ghost

#

and the design that all other hive ghost shells are based on

#

there was a timeskip yes but it could not have been more than like an hour, the time between the end of lost and the start of WQ was like five days

#

in that time savathun would need to be resurrected, rebuild her entire throne world through light, lure and enlist an entire army of wayward ghost, construct the wellspring and her secret spire, prepare her ship, and work on returning mars to the solar system

#

there is too much working parts to ever rely on happenstance of a random ghost finding her to resurrect her

#

she would not put all of her cards out like this without having the one thing everything relied on beforehand

slim girder
ember storm
#

that was him moreso covering

#

the lucent tale lorebook details all of them willingly entering the throne world because they're curious

#

only when they're all presented with a field of hive corpses does fynch begin to have second thoughts, at which point there's armed troops there to prevent escape

#

they made their choice, they just couldn't back out last second

slim girder
#

That proves my point. Again he had no other options both desperate and now no escape either.
He's also spoken about how he found his chosen in that lost sector.

ember storm
#

are you ignoring the part of all of them willingly entering a hive throne world

#

they weren't tricked

slim girder
#

I never said they were tricked. They were curious but I'm sure desperate. What ghost willingly enters a throne world of humanity's sworn enemies?
Exactly as that loretab says an "urge" even our own ghost has talked about this feeling that they must find their guardian.

#

Our ghost was searching for us a whole century.

#

If khvostovs lore is to be what our ghost went through

eager trout
#

What if the thing with the Guardian tenets wasn't a lie by the Watcher, but rather a misinterpretation on his part?

jagged badge
slim girder
#

You're right it was definitely longer.

ember storm
chrome fog
#

I think the original point is, the basis of the “Devotion, Bravery, Sacrifice, Death” is a singular individual’s beliefs, which happen to parallel with the Traveler’s. Insofar as to the how that affects who Ghosts can choose, it hasn’t and all we know is that Ghosts have only resurrected Humans and Hive. There can be as many arguments as needed for each side but end of the day the Speaker wasn’t necessarily an authority on the inner machinations of how the Traveler works or how the Ghosts work either

#

He was just a guy

#

Not even like his predecessors where he could have more direct visions from the Traveler, he lacked the ability to actually hear what the Traveler says

#

But he saw the good that we could be pushed towards, he learned of how the previous Speakers saw these gifts from the Traveler and what kind of higher goal they could be working towards, he could see how without a similar guiding principle that promoted selflessness, that exalted sacrifice, our power, the power provided by the Traveler to us through the Ghosts, can become more entitlement than responsibility

#

tl;dr Speaker’s whole schtick about the Guardian mantra isn’t necessarily a basis for who is grounds to be resurrected as a Lightbearer, there are many other factors and there are Lightbearers who have proven themselves not to be as adherent to it yet still possessing a Ghost and the Light it gives

eager trout
#

Speaker

empty fern
#

Where did all the speaker gifs go

ember storm
#

Only have this

empty fern
#

Why do some gifs suddenly vanish whenever I need them

ember storm
#

Vaulted sad_cat

chrome fog
#

Discord vaulting more gifs to make room for more AI features

#

But yeah where tf did all the Speaker gifs go

#

All that’s left is anime girl with guns and nonsensical stuff

empty fern
fair stream
#

Are we allowed to talk about lore tabs that have been datelined for upcoming weapons?

chrome fog
#

What do you mean by datelined?

jagged badge
#

I assume they mean datamined, and no

fair stream
#

Alright, I’ll be back next week

#

Stupid autocorrect

chrome fog
#

Would we consider “Currently available in the API” as datamined or no?

jagged badge
#

Unless it is officially revealed or actually in the game, don’t discuss it, basically

chrome fog
#

Gotcha

#

So if it’s not technically available in-game at the current moment, then it’s best to refrain from discussing

#

Cause I know Ishtar collects available entries in the API even if they aren’t in-game yet

hollow hinge
#

tbf that is a gray area

#

it's best to just avoid it but we do sometimes discuss for example perks on weapons that have been revealed but we've not gotten in game yet

jagged badge
#

Going off of Foundry/Light.gg before they’re in the game is not allowed

#

It won’t be strictly punished the same way full on leaks are, but we will discourage conversation around them

#

That’s our position on it

hollow hinge
#

I mean for example Bungie showed us the glaive and bow coming in act 2, if those were in the api rn we have talked in the past about perks on the weapons that they may have neglected to mention in the stream

#

or the new rocket sidearm, dmg only briefly mentioned it; saying it's coming next week but if the perks for it are in the api then no reason to disallow that

hollow hinge
torpid flint
eager trout
ember storm
#

Wumpus will send you one message a day if you have nitro Clueless

eager trout
#

Oh

ember storm
#

I made that up

#

I don’t know what discord does

eager trout
#

Technically the Discord GIFs depend on what Tenor has

chrome fog
# eager trout There's AI features?

You an edit a picture posted in Discord using an AI feature, and the rest I can’t remember despite them trying really hard to push it because I simply do not care for them

torpid flint
#

... so basically the ai photo editors... yeah I'm never using that. Let me use funny gif

eager trout
#

What's No Backup Plans?

dim minnow
eager trout
#

Yeah, but like, what is it?

hollow hinge
chrome fog
# hollow hinge ?

In the same vein as the Ahamkara bone exotics are, well, Ahamkara bones, they’re asking what are the “No Backup Plans” gauntlets literally are in-universe

eager trout
#

They have those holograms(?) that look like an Omnitool from Mass Effect

ember storm
#

They’re just a piece of tech, not really much else to say

#

Whatever backstory could be gleaned would only be found in the description and loretab

#

And you’re lucky if they even have that

dim minnow
#

loretab is unrelated to the exotic

#

and flavor text doesn't really give anything

#

Radiant Dance Machines seems to be a similar design with the armor being projection

#

but once again, there is little lore describing their mechanism

eager trout
#

Weird that No Backup Plans changes color with your subclass but the intrinsic only works with Void

#

And the little quote has nothing to do with what it does

dim minnow
#

well these were D1 armor pieces

#

I remember when Titan had an exotic helmet that gave them Dawnblade's heat rises

lost abyss
#

I don't think we normally get hints as to the in-universe mechanics of some armor. I think some are just symbolic, rather than practical. Though, the holographics on NBP does kinda make it seem like one of the exotics to have an actual mechanism, to me

frigid sparrow
#

Triton vice doesn't actually do anything it's purely a mental boost that makes you feel stronger thus making your glaive capabilities stronger as well

trim grotto
sick yew
slim girder
#

Exotics are as their name suggests are very unique and we don't always know exactly how they operate.
Like lucky raspberry having the power to leave its user or how astrocyte turns the users head into raw thought

lost abyss
#

I want more lore for this particular topic, it's a pretty interesting bit of world building that we usually get for Weapon Foundries, but not armor. There aren't any "Armor Foundries" that manufacture a pair of Sunbracers for every Warlock (I think lmao). Even still, I think it'd be neat to get little bits that help bridge the gap between canon and gameplay a little more.

trim grotto
#

Sunbracers were made by a Titan Sunbreaker
But yeah I get your idea

lost abyss
#

I know, was just thinking of a way Bungie could rationalize players seeing multiple Guardians wearing them.

blazing wasp
#

gameplay and lore are not always 1:1

#

hell, it was only recently properly confirmed that weapon perks are actually canon.

slim girder
#

Bungie have sort of backed themselves into a corner on that front. It's why we don't get IRL measurements or anything in the game because if we tried to translate it everything would look crazy

blazing wasp
#

also some exotics are produced more than once, like suros regime or icebreaker

slim girder
#

Like hand cannons use 30mm cartridges.
That is what current day grenade launchers use.

blazing wasp
#

and some are not, like graviton lance and erianas vow

blazing wasp
#

you need BIGGER iron.

hollow hinge
slim girder
#

See but now imagine that IRL and the fact that they still look small compared to guardians.
So IRL how big is a guardian really

#

Like did humans just triple in body mass during the golden age because of all the advancement and living longer?

blazing wasp
#

humans statistically grow in height throughout history

#

notice how napoleon is depicted as short sometimes? by our standards he was

#

but by his time period? average height.

#

and that wasnt even a thousand years ago

#

obviously there'd be a "cap" or something but

slim girder
#

I know. Again we advanced and lived longer.
"Elephant logic"
Cavemen lived to 30 on average and now it's pretty common to see people going past 100.

blazing wasp
#

well you did ask.

slim girder
#

Yeah I just still find it funny because as someone who likes firearms it's funny imagining a cartridge used by modern day grenade launchers coming from a revolver.

blazing wasp
#

another cool thing is the design of most hand canons

#

the barrel is at the bottom

#

it fires from the bottom of the cylinder

slim girder
#

Yeah there is a gun IRL that has that mechanism. The "Rhino"

#

I forgot the brand

#

Ciappa or something

#

It helps with stability as the gun bounces backwards more in a straight line than being jerked up

lost abyss
blazing wasp
#

a handful of guns do yes

#

not made often as they're harder to make

#

helps with stability as you've said yeah, since the source of the recoil is closer to the center of the mass

#

making your entire arm and shoulder absorb it rather than just your hand(s)

slim girder
#

Erianas vow would be the destiny equivalent of a deagle or a 4570 bfr

sick yew
ember storm
#

like the people who make all those "functioning" iron man masks

frigid sparrow
hollow hinge
eager trout
#

What's this?

20250305_145752.jpg 20250305_145759.jpg
sick yew
#

Probably Cabal oil?

#

Where did you take that screenshot

eager trout
#

Presage

#

After the part with the two Ogres

#

In the hangar where a random voiceline plays

ember storm
#

Then yes cabal oil

#

Entire crew was wiped out

#

This would be where the last survivors would’ve been escaping

eager trout
#

It's coming out from a door that I think used to be from the captain's secret contraband compartments

eager trout
#

What's the explanation for the slow projectiles of weapons like the support frame Strand auto rifle, and Last Warning?

trim grotto
eager trout
#

Why is the Echoes orbit music called A Knife In The Garden if the "knife" was already defeated?

trim grotto
#

There is such a thing as overthinking a topic, eevee

chrome fog
#

Another consideration is that, with the Witness defeated, the power which it had consolidated is now available for anyone to take up, proverbial “Knives” left out in the “Garden” to be discovered

slim girder
#

To my knowledge last time one of destiny's songs had hidden meaning it was savathuns song.
Not saying this could be another one of those but I have a feeling the use of the word knife will have some higher meaning.

chrome fog
#

It already has

eager trout
slim girder
#

Well yeah but I mean at the forefront of the story. Like we'd start using that word more to designate something.

slim girder
eager trout
#

Yeah, but what did the song mean?

jagged badge
#

It was a means by which she could control people

slim girder
#

^^°

jagged badge
#

I believe Eris Morn described it as a viral chant

slim girder
#

Again. Being cunning

eager trout
#

Ah, so she made us play the game

jagged badge
#

Once you hear it, you cannot unhear it

#

She used it to sedate or control Shaxx to avoid detection at some point iirc

#

And also used it to sow dissent in the Last City through Lakshmi rallying against the Eliksni

slim girder
#

Even nowadays the song is around. Like you can play it on the scorn organ in kells fall.

thick fulcrum
#

Wow

chrome fog
ember storm
#

I mean the witness called itself the first knife

#

“a” knife does not mean the only knife

#

Don’t think it means that Witness 2 is about to happen but eh

#

The terminology of knives has been a thing since taken king grimoire

chrome fog
#

Doesn’t Unveiling also reference the First Knife having many edges? Or something does I think, point is the easy message out of the song name is that we’re going to have to deal with the fallout of the Witness for a while

ember storm
#

I’m pretty sure that was referencing the witness having the black fleet as its main source of influence

chrome fog
#

Shit we’re in now is going to be like police having to deal with some kid or teen finding a bloody knife in the bushes, which is allegorical to just the Echoes - the remnants of the Witness’ power - being picked up and used by whoever the fuck comes across them

eager trout
bright stream
#

How does ikora have a ghost if she learned how to wield the light instead of being given it?

ember storm
rapid girder
#

so does being eviscerated by the ritual of negation just remove you from existence

ember storm
ember storm
#

everyone forgets that you exist

bright stream
ember storm
#

unless there's remaining tangible evidence that you did exist, then it'll be like you never did at all

bright stream
#

I thought she just wielded the light through pure skill or some

rapid girder
#

damn

ember storm
#

every guardian has to actually train themselves to use their light effiectively

#

ikora is just based and took the time to master each subclass individually

#

meanwhile cayde was a shitty top tree gunslinger main and died for it

bright stream
#

Ohh

rapid girder
#

so what is the mysterious blue puddle of light that you go into to prevent being removed from reality

eager trout
ember storm
#

in templar?

#

all that does is let you shoot at templar

#

the aegis is what stops it

#

templar marks you for negation and then the oracles erase you

#

if you cleanse yourself of the mark then the oracles cant get to you

#

its an automated process

#

atheon himself only calls on them to activate also

bright stream
#

Would yall fuck wit a destiny show or movie about the dark ages wit warlords and shi?

rapid girder
ember storm
#

bunch of different episodes focused on different things

#

one in the dark age, one of the cabal empire, one of the early day hive, that type of thing

rapid girder
ember storm
#

yeah that's just a pool of light from the aegis

rapid girder
#

oh ok

ember storm
#

templar cant do anything to you

eager trout
#

From the what?

ember storm
#

the oracles are what erase you and they're an automated system

ember storm
rapid girder
#

what is the aegis exactly

eager trout
ember storm
#

light-infused vex shield constructed by kabr in his last moments

#

specifically because he knew he was fucked and that anybody else who entered the vault would be as well

bright stream
#

Like short canon stories

rapid girder
#

weird how it’s the same exact one in tfs campaign

ember storm
#

if you dont know who kabr is then like skill issue tbh sillygoofy

rapid girder
ember storm
ember storm
rapid girder
eager trout
ember storm
#

yes the traveler makes it appear for us but it only appears at all because we know it and are familiar with it

ember storm
eager trout
#

Then just the guy who got trapped

ember storm
#

Kabr is only said to have crafted armor and then the aegis

ember storm
eager trout
#

...Kabr

rapid girder
ember storm
#

what does your sentence mean

#

"just the guy who got trapped"

#

why did you say that

eager trout
#

Kabr is the guy who got trapped in the Vault of Glass

ember storm
#

theres a lot more to it than that

#

not even mentioning praedyth or pahanin, or even the theoretical 3 other fireteam members

#

they participated in the great hunt also

rapid girder
#

lore accurate guardians are actually insane

tardy elbow
eager trout
rapid girder
ember storm
eager trout
#

Didn't someone escape the Vault?

ember storm
#

not technically

#

praedyth is trapped inside the broken flow of time in the vault

#

we try to locate and rescue him in D1 and have radio conversations with him, but find an incredibly aged skeleton where he leads us

#

he is simultaneously permanently dead and still alive in the vault

eager trout
#

Dang, D1 had it that cool?

ember storm
#

not really no

#

gameplay was shit

#

anyone who tells you otherwise was just too dumb to remember back then

#

it was designed to run on a 360 and all

eager trout
#

I mean that we got to do cool things

ember storm
#

cool things such as looking at a giant black ball of goo that just spawns 3 mechanically identical yellow bar minotaurs

#

there wasnt much anything cool about trying to rescue a character youd have no idea existed unless you visited the grimoire lore website on your computer, only to find his skeleton and then leave to never try to find him again

eager trout
#

Why are the Guardians in the current poster of the game using Taken power?

slim girder
#

Having power like that provides an advantage as we can see how they see.

#

Even know what they're up to

chrome fog
chrome fog
#

I think it's name was "Really Good Advice" or something along that line

trim grotto
#

Engineers decry the idea that all smart systems spontaneously develop personalities and awareness...but it seems undeniable that Super Good Advice manifests personality, memory, and a certain sass. The truth may lie in the weapon's connection to the legendary Hunter Pahanin, who witnessed the fall of Kabr and became terrified of traveling alone.

ember storm
#

I didn’t mention Pahanin because while he did escape he also just got murdered afterward so like

chrome fog
#

Yor got him, right?

ember storm
#

yeah its funny

paper gorge
#

Was it ever found out , what language was the dread speaking in ?

ember storm
#

"oh man there's a character who survived the vault of glass?"
"yeah but its never explained how or why."
"why not?"
"yor got him"

dim minnow
eager trout
#

How many beings were part of the Witness? Is it hundreds, thousands, or millions?

sleek matrix
#

The pre cursors?

#

Probably thousands

ember storm
#

pee coursers

#

It was an entire civilization well beyond our own golden age

#

I’d wager a lot of billions

hollow hinge
#

(responding to Waltz above my message here:) I mean they merged their entire civilization into one being with a similar effort as a party trick

#

so

chrome fog
# paper gorge Was it ever found out , what language was the dread speaking in ?

What Eevee said, but it should be noted that there hasn’t yet been a proper translation for the Dread Language. There’s no textual writing to reference it to unlike with the Eliksni where the symbols were referenced with Chinese characters, as the Chinese version just replaced said Chinese Characters with Eliksni symbols (and also the symbols aren’t ever really used like a writing system save for the few times Bungie put it on some promotional material, which leads me to believe it’s just coincidence)

empty fern
#

A fully oral language, pain

chrome fog
#

In fairness there could be a written part to the language, but like there is absolutely no references for translation

paper gorge
#

ok thanks

torpid flint
#

So do guardians get air support ever?

dim minnow
#

also Heist Battleground Moon

#

and a few other examples

#

there was also an instance where Petra provided air support causing the deaths of three Guardian fireteams

torpid flint
#

I mistyped that, shit. I was gonna ask why guardians receiving air support(or any other secondary assistance, ex, artillery or orbital) is rare

#

Especially now, I know before it was because humanity didn't have the resources to spare

dim minnow
#

also, due to the way we operated

#

we never really go for large scale engagements unless needed

#

instead we opt for more precise strikes on key enemy leadership/positions

#

therefore the need for air support/artillery isn't used very often

#

also the fact that we never had the means to do so reliably

#

we didn't even have orbital bombardment on our own until much later on

#

we only had it in Lightfall because Neomuna had an experimental Ishtar satellite

#

and I have no idea how Nimbus got it into the Pale Heart

#

the airstrike we have in Onslaught Salvation could be something we made with the help of the Cabal and perhaps Neomuna

torpid flint
#

Oh I just thought of something. In destiny 2, do we have weapons that are similar to MAC rounds( if you're not super into halo lore, essentially 2ton rocks going 1/10+ the speed of light) or magnetic weapons?

dim minnow
#

that's my best guess on what would be closest

torpid flint
dim minnow
#

while it's classified as a linear fusion rifle, it really just shoots a projectile at a very high velocity

eager trout
ember storm
#

yes

eager trout
#

Oh

#

How?

ember storm
#

ghosts really arent as tough as youd think

#

a literal bombardment will kill them and their guardians at the same time, yeah

eager trout
#

But aren't Ghosts usually in the ethereal hidden form when in combat?

ember storm
#

and when a guardian dies they're unable to exist in that state

#

and this is in the middle of a bombing run

eager trout
#

Air "support"💀

#

How well would Blue Beetle fare in the Destiny universe?

Blue_Beetle.png
chrome fog
#

He’d be ok but still very killable

#

Like the main benefit of us Guardians is just being able to die and come back, not necessarily be impervious to death

#

If you thinking about it, Nimbus is just man-made Blue Beetle

ember storm
#

a tough vex

#

from my understanding its just souped up nanotech

eager trout
ember storm
#

hows that going to fare against the raw concentrated power of the sun launched by the snap of a warlock's finger

#

cause like i guarantee that with all of that listed i can open a random blue beetle comic and see him get outclassed by guys who are definitely not guardian level

eager trout
# ember storm from my understanding its just souped up nanotech

Nanotech with a seemingly infinite supply, ability to control energy in many ways, ability to produce any naturally-occuring material, energy, radiation, and particle in the universe, the ability to develop countermeasures for nearly anything, the armor is actually nearly indestructible and can only be damaged by other Scarabs, extreme force (probably Superman level or even higher), and in one continuity certain sound frequencies.

ember storm
#

yeah ok cool

eager trout
#

And this is from 10 years ago, and only includes comics

ember storm
#

i dont see any reason to believe that light does not trump any of that

#

the entire point of paracausal power is that it trumps every conventional power

#

all of this is just technology

#

advanced technology, sure, but like

#

just look at the vex

eager trout
#

I mean, I guess the Scarab is probably on the level of the Vex in terms of processing power

ember storm
#

so whats a scarab going to do when a nova bomb is just launched at it frame 1

eager trout
#

But unlike the Vex, it can immediately adapt to create a countermeasure

eager trout
ember storm
#

technology can only go so far

eager trout
#

Idk, hasn't been shown

ember storm
#

i guarantee you if constantine just decided to do some fuckery it would be rendered completely useless

eager trout
#

But it can hack a Motherbox, which is Apokoliptian and technically "unknown"

ember storm
#

you can't just develop a counter to paracausality and tank all damage

ember storm
#

theres nothing magic about them

#

cyborg does that

eager trout
#

Magic is probably what gives the most trouble to the Scarab

#

Since it can't understand it

ember storm
#

and by definition paracausality would be magic

eager trout
#

It can, however, determine how to dispel magical effects

ember storm
#

there is nothing to comprehend about a flying future wizard that can summon the very concept of psychic connection as green strings

#

while flingling globs of materialized gravity and entropy as seeking bombs

#

this is why powerscaling just sucks tbh

#

it never goes anywhere, nobody ever gets anything from the conversation

eager trout
#

Technically, since Arc, Void, and Solar are naturally occuring energies of the universe, the Scarab should be able to harness them, but probably not much better than the Vex

ember storm
eager trout
#

Ok, let's see, Blue Beetle vs Destiny villains and enemies, not the Destiny universe as a whole

ember storm
#

solar light behaves completely differently from normal solar energy

#

normal solar energy can't magically mend wounds and also recognize who is an ally that gets healed while incinerating enemies with the power of the sun

eager trout
#

Don't you actively have to decide who to damage and who to not damage?

#

Like, in lore, couldn't a Guardian just decide to heal the enemies instead?

ember storm
#

yeah thats the point

#

there is no science to that

#

it is literally magic to be able to control whether or not somebody is healed or incinerated by the same source, all at the drop of a hat

eager trout
#

Ok, now, Blue Beetle versus the enemy factions is a whole different story

#

The Vex are probably an equal match

ember storm
#

probably trumps cabal and eliksni

#

hive are magic

#

vex are literally endless

#

they would overpower eventually

eager trout
ember storm
#

vex are so infectious that a taken being exposed to radiolaria would turn it into a normal vex

#

im considering every actual aspect of the race

#

not gameplay

eager trout
#

Can Vex infect technology?

ember storm
#

radiolaria consumes everything

#

the "ground" of vex planets like mercury is all vex machinery

eager trout
#

But technically, radiolaria can be destroyed, right?

ember storm
#

the vex cells can be sterilized with darkness

eager trout
#

What about just disintegrating them from a distance?

#

It's not like the Vex have hoses of radiolaria to shoot at things

ember storm
#

Maya can waterbend it

#

and vex radiolaria is alive

eager trout
#

Therefore, it has the weaknesses of a living being

ember storm
#

in terms of what

#

you can't kill radiolaria by shooting at it

hollow hinge
#

How about bleach?

eager trout
#

Can destroy planets

ember storm
#

what use is destroying something that is literally infinite and self replicating

#

any amount of radiolaria lost will have already been replaced within moments

eager trout
#

So the point is that the Vex can't be defeated permanently

#

I'd still say that, at least against the general Hive forces, Blue Beetle could win

#

Since the actually numerous ones don't use much in terms of magic, and those who use magic are few and not indestructible

ember storm
#

one wizard uses a darkness cloud which is magic to immobilize

eager trout
#

The Scarab can still "see" through it, and shoot

#

The Scarab may not understand magic, but it's not helpless against it

#

Usually it will compensate the lack of understanding with excessive raw power

ember storm
#

it literally makes you seize up

eager trout
#

Makes you what-?

ember storm
#

what

eager trout
#

I don't know what that means

ember storm
#

you've never heard the phrase seizing up?

#

like your muscles

#

tazers do that to you

eager trout
#

Oh

#

Wouldn't it have to get in through your armor, though? Like, direct exposure?

ember storm
#

thats the magic part

#

it is literally a cloud of darkness

eager trout
#

Either way, even if the host is incapacitated, the Scarab can take control

ember storm
#

how do you think it affects guardians

#

including exos who are completely mechanical

#

it would harm the scarab

eager trout
#

Then the only choice is to attack from far away

#

To avoid the cloud

ember storm
#

at which point you'd also have a hoard of thrall and knights charging you down

eager trout
#

Yeah, all charging a planet-busting superweapon capable of depopulating entire planets

ember storm
#

insert previous comment about powerscaling

#

now i go to bed

eager trout
#

👍

chrome fog
#

It’s all the same stuff aside the teleportation really

eager trout
chrome fog
#

Doesn’t blue beetle have to create wings to fly

eager trout
#

Also, I don't think Cloudstriders can use the nanotech they have

chrome fog
#

Like it’s not flight like Superman, it has to create stuff to make it fly

eager trout
chrome fog
eager trout
#

Doesn't always do it

chrome fog
# eager trout Doesn't always do it

But like generally the flight is because it generates the stuff needed to fly, not cause Blue Beetle can just hover cause of alien biology or whatever

eager trout
#

Plus, the skimmer is an object separate from Nimbus, while anything the Scarab creates is technically still "part" of its host

eager trout
#

The wings are more for atmospheric flight

chrome fog
chrome fog
eager trout
#

The skimmer goes on their back

#

It just becomes longer when they grab it

chrome fog
#

And it’s connected to all the silvery goop about their person

#

So like, yeah, they’re kinda less potent man-made Blue Beetles if you think about it

eager trout
#

I guess that does make Nimbus' "Cloudstriders don't need weapons" comment make more sense

#

I wonder if it's possible to get just the nanotech without the enhancements that reduce your lifespan

#

We need more Cloudstrider weapons

fluid peak
#

More neomuna content generally would be nice

#

There's a lot of potential there for a few seasonal story type beats on Neptune

sick yew
#

Agreed
I was always hoping for a seasonal story in which Nimbus has to show the newest addition to the Cloudstriders the ropes

#

But I doubt we're ever returning to Neomuna properly

dim minnow
#

that way, the Neomuni will have to stop relying on them

sick yew
#

Or that

#

Unfortunately they are now a destination meaning they'll forever be under attack as long as it stays in the game

slim girder
sick yew
#

That would have been the whole point

#

Nimbus having to set into this leader role

slim girder
#

I meant more he's still a "new" cloudstrider. Like to my knowledge he isn't close to the ten year lifespan of cloudstriders yet

sick yew
#

I just heard a random tower npc say "we need a centralized city government, now more than ever"

#

I smelled revolution on the horizon and promptly thundercrashed them out of existence

slim elk
#

Technically there's only 2 Guardians in the Vanguard now even

#

Zavalas ghost be dead. No more light for him

sick yew
#

Uhm ackschually you dont need the light to be a guardian

slim girder
#

Hawthorne is a "guardian"

#

It's not really a title just for lightbearers anymore. More so someone who stands in defence of humanity

sick yew
#

Tbf tho Zavala has Stasis so hes not useless either in a fight

#

Plus he still got centuries worth of tactical knowledge

slim girder
#

Zavala is still definitely capable of a lot. He might even use strand in the future.
A true veteran with a lot of wisdom

slim elk
#

Yeah.
Just brings up the eventual issue of death by natural causes

#

Not immortal anymore..
Though being Awoken that's less of a concern for Zavala

sick yew
#

Even humans live for hundreds of years

#

Osiris is lightless too and he aint gonna check out anytime soon naturally

slim elk
#

Yep
Biggest one with that issue is Nimbus

#

10 year hard deadline

sick yew
#

Realistically yeah ig

#

But 10 years is still a long time for us

slim elk
#

8-7 now

sick yew
#

10 years ago we didnt even have d2

slim elk
#

Getting close to the 10 year mark TBF

#

2017 release

slim girder
#

We just had the 10 year anniversary of destiny as a franchise

#

November this year I'll have been playing this game for a decade

jagged badge
#

I swear I saw something earlier that clarified that

sleek matrix
#

I guess they have advanced medical stuff

jagged badge
# 

Today, Cryptarchs and scholars work to distill the legends of the Golden Age into truth. We know now that Humans lived longer, flew further, and learned faster. We know that countless ancient diseases and hatreds were extinguished forever. Human aspiration gave birth to vast engineering projects, sweeping social movements, and even new forms of life.```
jagged badge
ember storm
jagged badge
#

Who knows

#

He already outlived the 300 year lifespan even if that applied to post-Collapse humanity, so he’s already weird

ember storm
#

intrinsic old man politician buff that inhumanely increases lifespan beyond normal capabilities

calm granite
#

Maybe it's like batman, just got replaced

ember storm
#

nobody would love the speaker enough to do so

eager trout
eager trout
jagged badge
#

Probably way more

#

I can’t put the brain effort in rn

chrome fog
sick yew
#

Also its quite probably Last Word was crafted during the golden age, I doubt in the Dark Age they had the materials to make such a sick gun

#

Monte Caro I believe was found in a vault beneath Old Chicago so its within the bounds of reason to assume its from the pre collapse days aswell

#

Lament aswell it was completey at the very end of the golden age

#

Winterbite predates the collapse but it only made its appearance during it

eager trout
sick yew
#

Looking at the loretab yeah probable

#

If you want to stretch it really far you could argue that Parasite is pre golden age cause it has Savathuns worm in it which is waaaaaay older than the golden age itself

#

But the gun itself is technically made in WQ so it depends on your definition

#

Any Cabal Guns (Acrius, Overture, Skyburners) and Eliksni weapon (Lord of Wolves and Queenbreaker) arguably predate the golden age

#

Sturm I guess too cause it belonged to a golden age colonist

#

@eager trout thats all I can think of that are for sure pre golden age, with many others simply being unknown cause their lore doesnt tell us

#

Oh yeah Cerberus+1's heartpiece a "Golden Age Microstellar Dynamo" probably counts aswell

ember storm
sick yew
#

I doubt we have any idey when Tommys was created

#

The loretab doesnt go into any detail about it

#

So id just be assumption

ember storm
#

It’s a seraph weapon innit

#

looks like the armor

sick yew
#

It was released in Worthy yeah but that doesnt really have to mean anything

ember storm
#

It looks kinda like the seraph armor Clueless

sick yew
#

Which one

#

This one?

ezryl0ujkhk41.png
#

From the season it was released in?

#

Cause besides the bits of yellow on the mag I dont see it

776191470.png
ember storm
#

Orna

#

Bit of ornate design on the sides

sick yew
#

Bit of a stretch but eh

#

Maybe

#

I really wish Tommys was usable in pve without devour or shit

#

Such a cool weapon design

chrome fog
#

I used to run it with Solar Hunter, idr what I used for longevity but I think there was something about powered melee blows healing on kill, and I’d use weighted knife

eager trout
plain sequoia
#

like

#

pretty sure elsies scout aswell

slim girder
#

Suros regime is another

#

Quicksilver storm could probably be considered it to

chrome fog
#

It would be derived from Neomuna tech, which is technically post-Golden Age but Neomuna itself is sort of a glimpse into a human society that was not disrupted by the Collapse

#

Then, would we consider the exotic Strand sidearm Golden Age tech too or not

dim minnow
#

since it seems to be a variant of No Time to Explain which is a paradoxical weapon

#

well, the bravery variant is certainly not Golden Age

plain sequoia
dim minnow
#

I'll have to recheck its lore

#

Worldline Zero might be Golden Age

#

since I'm pretty sure Elsie left it in a vault in the Hellas Basin before she became an Exo

#

ok, it seems like Polaris could very well be Golden Age

#

since it was a broken rifle Ana was working on

#

assuming she finished fixing it before the Collapse that is

#

Lament also seems to be Golden Age since Clovis-1/43 used it during the Exo/Vex War

dim minnow
#

maybe it isn't

#

it seems like Polaris and the Legendary version of it we got in Warmind were both future iterations of another weapon

plain sequoia
#

suros regime, sturm and drang are my first thought when i think of golden age weapons

trim grotto
#

SUROS Regime was Golden Age tech that was done up by the City Age SUROS Foundry.

#

I wouldn't really count it myself.

dim minnow
#

you capitalize the SUROS in SUROS Regime

trim grotto
#

i did

#

you have to shout it when you say it

#

i sure to love the SUROS foundry

plain sequoia
#

omolon my beloved ♄

hollow hinge
#

-# suros ?

trim grotto
sick yew
#

Suros are....fine

#

Above mid for sure

#

Actually

#

@trim grotto do you have a list of all Last City foundries?

trim grotto
#

I can probably name them off the top of my head

sick yew
#

Go on

trim grotto
#

Nadir, Crux/Lomar, Veist, SUROS, Tex Mechanica... Hakke... The other one that starts with... Cassoid, that's it. Omolon.

sick yew
#

Who the fuck is Crux

trim grotto
#

Crux/Lomar did Gjallarhorn

sick yew
#

Nothing else?

trim grotto
#

Uh, Truth and Dragon's Breath

#

They were rocket guys

#

Feizel Crux and Victor Lomar

sick yew
#

Dont the old factions also count?

#

Dead Orbit and gang

#

Or were those just personalized variants of existing foundry weapons

trim grotto
#

Their gear were, by and large, modifications of Foundry weapons

#

I would be remiss not to mention Banshee in and of himself though

#

There's also Daito and the Black Armory

sick yew
#

Remind me aswell, Daito was a faction correct?

trim grotto
#

Foundry, but not a faction.

sick yew
trim grotto
#

Well, it's still active.

sick yew
#

Hmm, im thinking of putting together a Tierlist rn

trim grotto
#

Or was until the Awakening, anyway

sick yew
#

Looking for all the icons

trim grotto
#

I'll leave it up to you whether you consider Field Forged or not

sick yew
#

Cause I wouldnt count shit like the braytech guns im mainly focusing on the last city ones

#

Otherwise youd basically have to include them all and I aint doing that

trim grotto
#

Well, on that note, I would remind you that the Black Armory did produce Foundry Modified weapons during our time. Enhanced gear. So, not all of it was old Golden Age stuff.

sick yew
#

This is the icon for Crux yeah?

image.png
trim grotto
#

Crux/Lomar. Named after Feizel Crux and Victor Lomar.

#

But yes.

sick yew
#

Ah

#

@trim grottomissing anyone?

image.png
trim grotto
#

Daito

sick yew
#

Right

#

Alright gottem all

trim grotto
#

And I assume you're skipping the BA and Banshee?

sick yew
#

What guns did Banshee make

trim grotto
#

Ace of Spades, for one.

sick yew
#

The original one? Really

trim grotto
#

That one sidearm from Chosen

sick yew
#

huh

trim grotto
#

Brass Attacks

sick yew
#

Only that one?

#

Or all the chosen guns

jagged badge
#

The people who come up with silly puns for weapon names/perks like Brass Attacks and Clown Cartridge must be so chuffed with themselves

trim grotto
sick yew
#

Sure

#

On that note didnt Crux also make Erianas Vow?

trim grotto
#

Cassoid, going by the mark

sick yew
#

Its got their symbol on the barrel

image.png
sick yew
#

I wonder how Cayde feels about that one

trim grotto
# 

“Whaddya want, Cayde?”

“Just checking in on that thing I asked you to do.”

“I told you, my smuggling days are over—”

“No no shhh no not that! The other thing—”

“What other thing?”

“The custom piece! For—”

“Oh right. Right. Course I’m doing that.”

“Yeah? How's it looking?”

“Did all the design myself. So it's looking good.”

“Is that... an ace of spades?”

“Yep.”```
As far as I could determine, Hard Luck and other similar models may have been based on this original design
sick yew
#

I see I see

#

Looks about right

image.png
#

This tierlist is absolute and you will abide by my takes

slim girder
#

I refuse to believe that there isn't something behind this door in the future.
Iirc this leads to that place where we fought ecthar the first time for the exotic sword quest back in D1

#

Also kinda bummed that bungie said alak hul wasn't going to be in the new version of the sunless cell strike.
Would have been pretty fitting for the episode to have a lightbearing hive in the dreadnaught and in his old cell of all places.

#

But on the other hand.....

#

Maybe kelgorath will decide to pop up again

ember storm
#

the whole point of the original sunless cell was a small room in the dark that youd have to be constantly running around to not get axed

#

lightblade would literally just gun you down from across the room since theres literally no cover

slim girder
#

Lightblade was still very aggressive and tried to axe you plenty of times. Also the dreadnaught has changed so I don't see why they could add new things to those old areas.
I'm still expecting it to be a deep dark hole but still I think it would have been cool to have alak hul who is still alive to fight us inside his old cell.

sick yew
ember storm
#

i know whoever the fuck came up with chill clip was kicking their feet while lying in bed

chrome fog
#

No sarcasm, I too believe omolon should be left as gunsmith parts

fluid peak