📚lore-discussion

[jagged badge]

It’s the one we find in the raid

[warm acorn]

… wait there’s one in the raid

Where

[trim grotto]

Right after Security. In a giant room.

Before Atraks

[warm acorn]

Ohh ok

[trim grotto]

Like it's
directly the room before Atraks

[warm acorn]

I know the room you’re talking about

So how did that help Clovis create the Alkahest

And then how does that transition into the raid?

[trim grotto]

Clarity Control, as he dubbed it, produced a paracausal effect of Darkness which he dubbed... Clarity.
He exposed collected Radiolarian Fluid to the effect of Clarity, which transformed and reduced it into a substance which he dubbed Alkahest, which among other things was used to stabilise Exominds and make them fit for human mindscans to inhabit.

[warm acorn]

😳

That’s wild. So every modern exo was created from darkness in a sense

[trim grotto]

As for the Raid itself, we're attempting to stop House Salvation from using the Deep Stone Crypt to create Fallen Exo - such as Atraks 1. We broke through Security and defeated Atraks-1, and ended up in the Morningstar orbital station, which functioned as a failsafe method for protecting the Deep Stone Crypt.

Taniks was only there because Eramis brought him along, and he fucking hates us.

[trim grotto]

In a manner of speaking, yes. Without Alkahest, mindscans uploaded into an Exo experienced an effect known as Billboarding, a more dangerous and widespread form of DER. Braindeath.

[warm acorn]

What the 😭

[warm acorn]

So how did they get through security 😵‍💫

[jagged badge]

Essentially, the conditions they housed the human mindscan in before were too perfect and thus too unnatural

It didn’t stimulate the mind in a normal human way

[warm acorn]

Ohhh that makes sense

[jagged badge]

At least, that’s how I understand it

[warm acorn]

Ofc you need darkness to make a human mind

Lol

[jagged badge]

Alkahest was a more imperfect (and thus perfect) solution

[warm acorn]

Make a space for a human mind*

Ye that makes sense

[jagged badge]

And yeah Darkness being linked to consciousness feels like it would probably help

[warm acorn]

So what is light connected to?

[jagged badge]

Physical reality moreso

[warm acorn]

Hm ok

Now I wanna know all of the raid lore 0.0

Some are self explanatory

Tbh

But what about garden?

[jagged badge]

Do you recall the artefact we find in the Pyramid at the end of Shadowkeep?

[trim grotto]

Orb™️

[warm acorn]

Yeah the darkness orb or whatever

It put out a signal leading to the garden right? But why?

[trim grotto]

That's what we went there to figure out. We were pretty much just following our curiosity. Immediately afterwards, we began to receive messages from the orb, creating the Unveiling lorebook.

[warm acorn]

So we show up at the black garden of all places following curiosity, find some vex there and kill them all?😂 how guardian of us

[trim grotto]

Garden of Salvation was not the most story intensive or cautious thing we've ever done yeah haha

But it was cool

[warm acorn]

It was cool yes

Hm okay every other raid is pretty self explanatory ngl

[warm acorn]

What’s your favorite part of Destiny lore?

[trim grotto]

Generally speaking, yeah.

[warm acorn]

Lol the cycle of pulling up to the big bad’s lair and slaying out stays true to us

[ember storm]

I mean it did confirm the sol divisive have been connected to this voice in the darkness now

Plus it sorta sent the whole year of Shadowkeep’s seasons in motion

[jagged badge]

Exos!

[warm acorn]

Finding out banshee was Clovis was 🤯

[dapper shore]

how many Hive gods destiny have?

I only know Eris, Savathun and Oryx

also what are the other book of sorrows aside Necrocasm, Osteo Striga, Touch of Malice and Thorn?

[trim grotto]

Well, there's the three major sibling Hive gods - Oryx, Savathûn, and Xivu Arath. The Worm Gods, which are Xita, Xol, Akka, Eir, Ur, and Yul. Oryx's son Crota was considered to be a god, and you could argue the same for any Ascendant Hive, though you could argue against that.

Eris was only considered a Hive God for the duration of Season of the Witch. She sacrificed her power when she severed Xivu Arath's connection to her Throne World.

[trim grotto]

Books of Sorrow or Weapons of Sorrow?

[dapper shore]

weapons my bad

[ember storm]

If you go by general definition, ToM wouldn’t fit it

[warm acorn]

Isn’t bad juju Toland’s attempt at a weapon of sorrow?

[dapper shore]

where do we meet Xivu?

[trim grotto]

We've dealt with her in the past, but never physically met her. Seasons of the Deep, Hunt, and Seraph were the primary dealings.

[trim grotto]

Only according to popular community opinion

And not actual fact

[warm acorn]

What are the facts?

😵‍💫

[trim grotto]

That it is never said to be anything of the like

[trim grotto]

Strictly speaking, only Necrochasm and Thorn are listed. Osteo Striga is one mechanically in game and as per patch notes, but wasn't described as one by lore. I would, however, still count it.
Touch of Malice is not one.

[dapper shore]

oh so guardians never met her physically?

but isn't Touch on Malice a weapon created by Oryx?

[trim grotto]

No. He laid out the plans, but Eris helped us make it, and without undergoing the suitable rituals for his plan.

Stole it for ourselves, basically.

[trim grotto]

Osiris sort of did. Xivu's influence, and her High Celebrant, were the danger that caused Sagira to sacrifice herself and leave Osiris Lightless.
But we've never seen her in person, no.

[dapper shore]

but destinypedia says ToM is a weapon of sorrow

[trim grotto]

Destinypedia also called one of the lore writers a slur when he asked them to change a definition he personally coined

[dapper shore]

ooooh

so 3 are classified as weapons of sorrow then?

what did happen on Forsaken after cayde's death and the betrayal of Mara Sov's guards?

[trim grotto]

Mechanically, in game, Touch of Malice does have minor interactions with Necrotic Grips, which puts weight towards it being a Weapon of Sorrow in terms of game mechanics. But that interaction is awkward, and lore wise, it has not been said to be a WoS.
The argument can be made for it to be one. But it is not, explicitly, said to be one.

[dapper shore]

thanks

[trim grotto]

I'm sorry, could you rephrase that?

Are you asking about the whole campaign?

[dapper shore]

yeah the whole campaign

I wanna know the whole story of the campaign before bungie deleted other parts

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

I have opinions about Dpedia

[dapper shore]

btw Is Savathun evil?

[trim grotto]

Well, the short version is that after Cayde's death, we went on a solo venture out to the Tangled Shore and began working with The Spider to hunt down and slay each of the Scorned Barons of the Tangled Shore. One by one we hunted them, until eventually we got to Fikrul, the Fanatic - who we slew, but Fikrul has an issue with staying dead - and we pressed on to find Uldren Sov.

Uldren had been manipulated by Riven, the Taken Ahamkara of the Dreaming City, and Riven was whispering in his ear and slowly corrupting him for quite some time. Uldren broke the seal, exposed the Dreaming City, let loose an avatar of Riven which we had to kill, and then we, alongside Queen's Wrath Petra Venj, slew Uldren Sov.

Then we got to the Dreaming City, but all of that's still in game.

[jagged badge]

She would see all of humanity extinct if it suited her. But she has also helped us when it suits her too

In fact, she’s one of the main reasons humanity isn’t extinct now

[dapper shore]

so Neutral?

[jagged badge]

Complicated

[dapper shore]

or she just go to the winning side?

[jagged badge]

No

[trim grotto]

She tries to be the winning side.

[jagged badge]

She fought against the Witness because she disagreed with it and the Final Shape

[warm acorn]

She does whatever benefits savathun the most

[jagged badge]

Which meant helping us get through the portal

[warm acorn]

Self interest

[dapper shore]

oooh so she will do anything that will benefits her

[trim grotto]

She's the enemy of our enemy, if you know that phrase.

[dapper shore]

Fikrul is the boss in revenant right?

[trim grotto]

Yes, he is.

[dapper shore]

yeah

so Fikrul didn't die on Forsaken?

[trim grotto]

Uldren Sov once accidentally Wished to have Fikrul returned to life. Riven heard the Wish and preformed this action, but her Taken magic corrupted Fikrul's Ether. He was the First Scorn. We have killed him time and time again, but each time he returns to life.

He is cursed.

[dapper shore]

oooh

so that's why he made the revenants

[trim grotto]

Scorn were originally all born of his tainted Ether. Undead Eliksni.

[dapper shore]

Evil guy

[trim grotto]

The Witness eventually got involved thanks to Emperor Calus, but prior, it was all Fikrul.

[dapper shore]

it was all Fikrul's plan?

[trim grotto]

This was also how Riven first started getting into Uldren's head, after his madness began to set in following the Battle of Saturn and Mara's apparent death.

[dapper shore]

wait did Mara died?

but she was alive in TFS right?

[blazing wasp]

she got better

[trim grotto]

Fikrul went into hiding for a few years after the Black Fleet arrived. He only started showing up again when Warlord's Ruin dropped. Emperor Calus and the Witness preformed experiments on the Scorn independent of Fikrul.

[trim grotto]

You know the Shattered Throne? The Dungeon?

[dapper shore]

yeah

the one where we get wish ender

[trim grotto]

Its true name is Eleusinia. It is Queen Mara Sov's Throne World, carved from the Ascendant Plane with aid from Riven of a Thousand Voices, before Oryx Took her.

Queen Mara Sov died in the Battle of Saturn - as planned. She used the Eleusinia to return to life, in the same way that an Ascendant Hive God would do.

[dapper shore]

technically she became a hive god for a moment?

[trim grotto]

No, no.

[blazing wasp]

that was eris morn

[trim grotto]

The Hive Gods created their Throne Worlds through the power of their Parasite Worm, fed by blood and death of unfathomable scales.
Mara Sov used a Wish Dragon.

Far less morally objectionable.

[dapper shore]

oooh

[jagged badge]

Can we pretend that airplanes in the night sky are like Ahamkara

[dapper shore]

oh yeah I forgot about the wish dragons

[jagged badge]

I could really use a wish right now

Wish right now

Wish right now

[dapper shore]

where does taken originated?

[trim grotto]

Oryx, the Taken King, god of the Hive. Auryx learned to Take after he slew the Worm God Akka, and communicated directly with what we believe was the Witness. He claimed the new name of Oryx, the Taken King, and the power of Taking along with it.

Taken technically existed before Oryx became the Taken King, but he is what made them so... ah... widespread, shall we say.

[dapper shore]

I thought Takens are the creation of the Witness

[ember storm]

Yeah but it didn’t really use them the way he did

[dapper shore]

how about the lore of Nezarec?

[ember storm]

We don’t know where he came from and how he got his power

[warm acorn]

He’s just a vibe

[ember storm]

He apparently just showed up and Psions revered him as a god

He has psychic power revolving around pain and suffering

He was notable enough for the witness to enlist him as a disciple and lead the charge against humanity to claim the traveler

He had the veil in tow to try and make the connection the witness wanted for the final shape

This was when Savathun did a little trolling and killed him, though, preventing both the extinction of humanity and hiding the veil away

So nezarec was left dead on his pyramid, the one on the moon, until fallen pirates found him

They essentially did what European archeologists did to Egyptian mummies

[dapper shore]

Tormentors came from Nezarec right?

[ember storm]

So fast forward a few hundred years and his body parts are scattered across the solar system

[ember storm]

Genetic copies made from his dna yeah

Leading theory is that it’s the result from Calus’ genetic engineers and cloning tech with the Witness providing them a nezarec sample (his decapitated head)

which is funny considering tormentors have everything except a similar head

[dapper shore]

so the Nezarec on RoN isn't the original?

[trim grotto]

Not his original body, at least. The Witness had his head in the large crystal in the middle of the Raid, and you can see the body take form and grow as you progress through the Raid.

Very creepy.

[dapper shore]

I haven't tried RoN even though I have LF

[crimson rose]

Now that the Traveler has Darkness in it, can it remember or think? And if it can, is it scared to?

[trim grotto]

It always could.

[lofty badge]

yeah it was only guardians that forgot when they were first risen

i just read a lore tab for one of the new side arms and it looks like one of caiatl's legionares adopted either a Fallen hatchling or a Revenant scorn Hatchling

[warm acorn]

That’s amazing

[lofty badge]

it was so adorable, as the hatchling helped the Legionare bite the ankle of a revenant scorn that was attacking said Cabal

[warm acorn]

😭 that’s so wholesome I love it

I love the eliksni in the last city

They’re so nice

[lofty badge]

and he was like "you have eaten the first of many mountains, a true cabal from this day forward!"

[lofty badge]

yee but i mean it was a imperial cabal that just adopted that hatchling

"You have the heart of a warrior, you mine now"

[warm acorn]

That’s amazing

Little warrior foundling

[lofty badge]

legit!

but i think it is just a normal hatchling, but it was surrounded by dark ether but it seemed the Revenant scorn just used it as a trap

rather then turning it into a baby scorn

[swift spindle]

why is slplicer man red?

is he emo?

too much red40?

[ember storm]

Nezarec brain tumor

[swift spindle]

oh

peak

how did he get it

[ember storm]

Remember season of plunder

He used dismembered bits of nezarec to save osiris

Took all the negative effects to give osiris the good

[swift spindle]

oh

hes so regal

[analog torrent]

Are there any moonrat experts in the chat? What do I have to read to become a moonrat expert 🙏

Other than A Man with No Name, A Drifter's Gambit, The Warlock Aunor, Illicit Reaper Mark, Notorious Reaper Bond, Opulent Scholar Boots, the Great Hunt gear, Truth to Power, Stolen Intelligence, Letters from Eris, Luna's Lost, The Singular Exegete, Regarding Stasis, Kept Confidence, False Idols, and the Prophecy transcript?

JOLYON MENTION https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/sovereignty

My guy is still running away from Crow

[dim minnow]

they seem to be in contact though

[analog torrent]

Baby steps

[zinc kite]

Does the new revenant story take place inside the cave we couldnt go into on europa?

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure what you're referring to. And the story takes place across multiple locations.

[zinc kite]

guess i mean the quest "something left to say" and the new onslaught mission Kell's Grave

ill try and find a screenshot of where im thinking those take place

[jagged badge]

Kell’s Grave isn’t on Europa

[zinc kite]

dang, guessing that means the quest too since they had basically the same aesthetic

i was thinking it took place somewhere in here, this is going towards the left side of riis reborn

was thinking it was like an old abandoned eliksni civilization before the fall

[jagged badge]

Europa was colonised by the Eliksni recently

[trim grotto]

The fall? If you're referring to the Collapse, the Eliksni only arrived in Sol after the Collapse.

[jagged badge]

Well, something over four years now but

[zinc kite]

where does all this old archtecture come from on eurpa then? just civil war over the recent years?

[trim grotto]

Eventide is the ruins of a Golden Age, Human settlement on Europa. The Eliksni of House Salvation simply settled atop of it.

[zinc kite]

does that include everything left of riis reborn? and then rightside would be what the vex has setup?

[trim grotto]

Everything on Europa is either a Golden Age ruin, an Eliksni construction of recent years, or Vex architecture either from the old Golden Age Vex/Exo War or their recent reawakening.

[zinc kite]

gotcha, last question, where does kell's grave take place if not in the caves of europa? looks almost traveler-esk mixed with cosmodrome

[trim grotto]

Kell's Grave is on the Tangled Shore, a part of the main asteroid belt of the solar system.

[zinc kite]

that makes alot more sense

i completely forgot about them using tangled shore for new pois

that explains the atmosphere xD

i legit thought it branched off of Kell's Rising lol

anyways, thanks so much for the info

[analog torrent]

Is there a standardization for emails (Golden Age and City Age/modern day) or do they just write whatever the fuck and send it

[crimson rose]

Why does it say somewhere in the lore that it's scared to think?

[dim minnow]

the Traveler is missing a part of itself

most likely the Veil

[small quartz]

What do ghosts smell like

And subsequently, what does the light smell like

[lofty badge]

why would such a thing be in the Sol system

[lofty badge]

XD

[blazing wasp]

I doubt the light has a inherent smell to it, but given form like solar it might cause something like that

[small quartz]

So what does void smell like

Grape?

[blazing wasp]

Well, it's basically quantum nothingness

So

...nothing?

[small quartz]

So grape

[blazing wasp]

Yeah so grape

[small quartz]

Dope

[mellow flicker]

Is it explained why icebreaker was found in the new dungeon?

[blazing wasp]

#1294319827640520714 might know atm

[lofty badge]

i find it intresting how it seems fikrul can command some part of the black fleet now, with how during the onslaught there is a chance of like a Subjucator to show up

and Eido says a Pyramid ship showed up

[dapper moss]

its either he has somewhat control over what’s left of the witness’ forces or theyre taking advantage of the chaos hes causing

[ember storm]

Well the echoes are part of the witness, aren’t they?

They might see it as the next best thing

[dapper moss]

theyre kind of like

mixed up pieces of the witness and traveler

like dark/light babies

[lofty badge]

yeah

[lofty badge]

some of the witness's forces may see welders of some of the echoes as their god that still lives on

[dapper moss]

true

[lofty badge]

but a dev at bungie did say the shadow legion allied with Fikrul to keep hold of power

but they also said that alliance was tense and was not 100% stable

[slim girder]

The shadow legion are just doing anything to survive at this point. And yes a being with the echo which is a part of the witnesses memory made physical by light would definitely draw them to it. Possibly even to try and claim it should fikrul be defeated

[lofty badge]

yeah, tho i don't know if its the entire shadow legion who have allied with Fikrul

since it seems they have begun to fracture into seprate forces

[slim girder]

Yirix commands some of them as well.

As well as some dread

[lofty badge]

yeah, so i assume Yirix also have acesses to some paracausel power due to that

unless her Psionic powers are just so powerful she can bend Subjucators and Tormentors to her will

[slim girder]

It's possible that that could be a future storyline but as of now we don't know how she has been able to bring some of the dread to her cause.

[lofty badge]

atm i am thinking she may be a semi diciple or was on her of becoming one, but that is more of guessing

[slim girder]

We still don't know anything about the dread other than they are "perfected" imprints of enemies we know

[lofty badge]

at least some of them are outright changed Psions

[ember storm]

I think Crow said after excision that some of the witness’ forces gave up on it completely, while the more “devout” are still trying to follow its last orders and ideals

Followers of Yirix would probably be the former and the dread/shadow legion in onslaught would be the latter

The dread in encore were trying to take the echo from Maya, right?

[slim girder]

Possibly. I don't think we ever got an answer for that and they just happened to be there.

[ember storm]

I totally got jumpscared by that random cabal in the boss room

[slim girder]

Also are dread even capable of comprehending that sort of thing? I know they have a language yes but as far as I know they are mindless drones who follow whoever gives them orders a bit like the taken.

It's just a case of establishing control of them

[ember storm]

Pretty sure dread have the capacity to think for themselves

[slim girder]

They have names as well but we never see any one dread acting in a unique kind of way.

Like a subjugator acts like every other subjugator

[lofty badge]

yeah

tho Subjugator do seem to act as commanders

be it for other dread or taken

same for Tormentors

[slim girder]

Subjugators and tormentors are the elite dread units yes.

As they are imprints of the disciples of the witness

[lofty badge]

it seems the most faithful of the witness's servents are still in the pale heart like the public stuff in the last area you can teleport too where its just taken and dread you fight while healing the traveler

Are the red Legion forces in the EDZ that is at Legion's anchor true remnants of the red legion and still wage war in Ghaul's name or is it just a bunch of splinter groups of the red legion that still show up there

[slim girder]

I don't think there's lore reasoning and it's just bungie hasn't updated the place is all.

[lofty badge]

true, and the two strikes there was changed so the shadow legion was involved

both the arms dealer and the taken strike

[hot summit]

Hey is it still possible i can get the choir of one?

took a few months break

[blazing wasp]

if you own the echoes episode

yes

also this is #📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

I mean that’s more of just a gameplay thing

They have the same enemy ai, that doesn’t mean they’re literally mindless clones

[lofty badge]

´but also a lore thing as they do seem to be among the commanders of the dread, but ye

[lofty badge]

oh in that manner

[lofty badge]

i wonder...can new dread be made, like with some elements of the shadow legion or the black fleet remants that can just cranck out new dread, like Subjucators and Tormentors and the rest? or are they in limited number while still of course lorewise being enough to be a enemy faction

[ember storm]

I mean they should just be infinite I’d imagine

The whole point of getting Calus as a disciple was him bringing along his genetic cloning operations to just mass produce soldiers

As long as they have samples they should be fine

[lofty badge]

yeah remaining dread cloning more of em perhaps on pyramid ships

[warm acorn]

What’s all the vespers host lore that we know from lore tabs

[lofty badge]

I can send you a link to a lore vid Evaze uploaded about it in spoilers if you want or in dms

i don't think we allowed to talk about the dun's lore in here yet

[warm acorn]

Yes please

[ember storm]

Pretty sure it’s just rusted metal

https://thegamepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/destiny-2-revenant-seasonal-challenges-213.webp

Like Fikrul

[crimson rose]

What would happen if the Traveler was reconnected to the Veil?

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny-2-final-shape-destiny-2-final-shape-final-shape-logo-gif-16665919012835973387

[gray lagoon]

oh tru

[fresh zephyr]

If we could just enter the Veil, why didn’t the Witness crush us with endless Dread before the DLC even happened

Since it works both ways

We would be so cooked if the Witness sent 90000 Tormentors

[blazing wasp]

The witness explicitly wants us to suffer, with the impression of a possibility to fight back

The witness could absolutely have nuked earth and split it open like a fucking mandarin if it desired to

[ember storm]

The Witness had to focus on wrestling control of the traveler and then imposing the final shape on all reality

All of the Witness’ actions in FS were defensive to hold its position

It was stockpiling Dread forces in the pale heart in the event that we actually breach rather than risking sending them all outside and then being left without any ground troops

Plus, the witness didn’t want to just kill us then

It wanted to deliver us the salvation it promised

[dim minnow]

it also grew to fear the power we were gaining within the Pale Heart

[eager trout]

Why did the Witness tell Calus to destroy the Veil?

[jagged badge]

Can’t remember off the top of my head but it may have been to mislead us

[eager trout]

So it knew we were watching

[dim minnow]

my guess is that the Witness wanted to make sure we couldn't follow it

once it set up the connection and entered the Pale Heart, it no longer needed it

[eager trout]

But in the end, it didn't destroy it

[dim minnow]

well the Witness wasn't really there to do it

it had to keep the Traveler held down until it set up the connection which it was finally able to do through our Ghost

[fresh zephyr]

Whats the lore behind the iron banner dude

Lord salladin or however you spell it

[trim grotto]

Iron Lord Saladin Forge, also now known as Valus Forge amongst the Cabal Ascendancy.
Lord Saladin is the last of the active Iron Lords (there is also Lady Efrideet, but she's been living in a mystery pacifist colony for years, and technically Tyra Karn, who kept their histories).
I assume you're unfamiliar with the Iron Lords?

[fresh zephyr]

you would assume correctly although i have heard of them once i know little about them

[trim grotto]

Alrighty, so
During the Dark Ages, some Lightbearers banded together to create the Iron Lords. They were, in a way, a precursor to the modern Guardians - with the goals of protecting people from Warlords and bands of Fallen.
Lord Saladin was one of the first Iron Lords, he's been around for centuries. Lord Saladin, for example, is the one who trained Commander Zavala.

The Iron Lords lasted until the City Age, shortly after Six Fronts. The Warmind Rasputin laid a trap for Iron Lord Felwinter, leaving traces of an old Golden Age colony construction nanite known as SIVA for Felwinter to find. When Felwinter discovered its location at Site 6, he brought the Iron Lords along with him to claim it from Rasputin.

Rasputin succeeded in killing Lord Felwinter, and nearly every single Iron Lord along with him as collateral damage. Only Lady Efrideet and Lord Saladin survived; with Efrideet having already left for her colony and Saladin being locked out by Lady Jolder as she detonated an explosive.

So, Lord Saladin is the last of this old order of Lightbearers. The Iron Banner honours them, and Empress Caiatl allows him to continue this tradition.

[fresh zephyr]

ok interesting

about the the traces of SIVA they left did Rasputin use that to make the outbreak perfected or is that completely irrelevant to Saladin

[trim grotto]

That was actually us, in D1. During the Wrath of the Machine Raid against the Devil Splicers and Aksis, we claimed a small SIVA engine. With Shiro-4's help, we turned it into Outbreak Prime.
At some point it was claimed by the Cryptarchs who turned it into Outbreak Perfected, and we reclaimed it during the Zero Hour mission in D2. You can do that right now in game, in fact.

[fresh zephyr]

oh wow i never knew that i dont often listen to the story in exotic missions but i think i might because thats accualy kind of cool

[trim grotto]

There's some context to the mission that isn't available any longer, but Mithrax (Misraaks) is the one who actually helped us thwart the heist of the Outbreak Perfected, which Eramis attempted to steal.

[ember storm]

He had a horrible sense of fashion back then

[fresh zephyr]

ah alright then and i know ive asked alot of questions but this is my last one for now atleast what the lore behind the whisper of the worm and the misson its personally one of my favorite weapons so i think it would be cool to know

like is it one of the god made weapons (im not sure if there is even a taken god) because im do know some of the weapons we use are made from hive gods and stuff

[ember storm]

It’s actually a god that made himself a weapon

Consciously

[trim grotto]

Actually, yes, though the Taken are only tangentially involved.

[ember storm]

And he’s still alive

[fresh zephyr]

wait i was accualy right

[ember storm]

Using the weapons gives him both power and sustenance

Canonically speaking, we have no idea

[fresh zephyr]

thats kinda crazy

[ember storm]

He’s tricked us for seven years now

[trim grotto]

Whisper of the Worm is a fun one.

During the Warmind expansion, we battled with and slew Xol, a Worm God. Worm Gods are not so easy to kill, however, and his essence fled to Io, wherein a ritual began.

We interrupted the ritual, and Xol deemed us worthy of his power. He bound his essence to us, and his power took the form of our demiurge, a perfect rifle. The Whisper of the Worm.

Now came Xol unto the Taken upon Io, who fed Xol with plunder and tried to make of it an idol and a commanding will. Yet Xol was bound joyously to the very logic that sustained it in its death. It wanted the sword proof, the single proof. It wanted to become a rule which divided the mighty living from the mighty dead. So it whispered the Anthem Anatheme, the temptation to dominate the objective universe with the subjective will. It said, I shall be an engine to make your desire hegemon over your conditions. It said, WIELD ME, AND USE ME TO TEST YOUR FOE. This was its worship. Aiat.```

[fresh zephyr]

ah so kind of the opposite of what we did to the parasite worm i dont even remember if that one is a god tho

[ember storm]

That’s a parasite, a spawn of the worm gods

They were created as part of the pact that the hive took with the worm gods

[fresh zephyr]

right i do kind of remember that from the witch queen campaign

[trim grotto]

Sort of.

Hive gain the power through the Worm Pact. They slaughter and kill, and that death feeds the Worm Parasite within them. The Worm of Parasite was the Worm of Savathûn, Hive God of Deceit.

The Worm Parasites were carved from the flesh of Xita, Mother of Worm Gods, by Rhulk, First Disciple of the Witness.

[ember storm]

They ingest the worm gods’ spawn to use as totems to give them tribute from their kills, and the hive grow in strength in return

the caveat is that the worms are still actual parasites

If the hive can’t give them sufficient tribute, the worms eat them from the inside

[fresh zephyr]

ok so i think i get it the worm gods are diffrent from the worms like savathuens and the worm gods and the hive made a pact of some kind where the hive would gain power from the parisites the worm gods gave them but what did the worms gods get in return? do they feed off of the tributes or something like that?

[trim grotto]

Yes, actually, they do.

Though the pact originally formed as a deal - Rhulk would set motions into play that would free the Worm Gods - Xol, Ur, Eir, Akka, and Yul - from the depths of an old world known as Fundament, in exchange for Xita's servitude to Rhulk.

[fresh zephyr]

wait wasent Rhulk the name of one of the tormentors or am i thinking of someone else

[crimson rose]

Where do ghosts go when they “transmat” away?

[trim grotto]

Rhulk was the First Disciple of the Witness, and the boss of the Vow of the Disciple raid.

[crimson rose]

Rhulk is the subjugator, Nezarec is the tormentor

[trim grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t10yST_loI

Glint: Well, that's open to interpretation, even among Ghosts! Personally, I think we decompile into a quantum superposition... like a sentient frequency.```

However, there are other lore tidbits that suggest the Ghost sort of "merges" with us, with entries detailing feeling a decompiled Ghost's presence in the palm of our left hand, the same we use to bring them out in game.

[fresh zephyr]

ah alright so i was thinking of the wrong one

[crimson rose]

Even the ghosts don't know??

[fresh zephyr]

and then who exactly is Xita? are they one of the hive gods? another one of the wittnesses deciples and sorry for all the questions lol im getting kind of hooked now lol

[trim grotto]

Ghosts know surprisingly little of how they do what they do.

[trim grotto]

Xita is the mother of Xol, Ur, Eir, Akka, and Yul.

Those being the Worm Gods

[fresh zephyr]

oh ok so she is the worm gods mother

[fresh zephyr]

i dont know why but that is kind of unsettling

[trim grotto]

Ah, here it is

She pulled three arrows out of her quiver and whispered, "Pom, whatever happens, don't come out." Her Ghost answered her with a pulse of warmth in her left hand.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/trinity-ghoul

Took me a minute to find the right entry

[fresh zephyr]

why were you looking for trinity ghoul entry?

[trim grotto]

Because it references a Ghost being one with the Guardian whilst decompiled

[fresh zephyr]

huh that is kind of interesting

off of that my guess is that the ghost kind of fuse with their guardians after they transmat

wait a second if the ghost can emit a pulse of warmth in a specific part of their guardians body would that mean they could in some way control parts of their guardian?

[old lark]

Throwing this question out there @ me with responses. In the lore sideshow for revenant the slayers barons are seen fighting worms. Are those worm gods or were there lesser worm beings that worked with the hive. Thanks for any info.

[trim grotto]

It's not entire clear if it was literal or a metaphor. We've never heard of Worm Gods other than those from Fundament, which have never interacted with the Eliksni as far as we're aware.
In fact, Eliksni had barely interacted with Hive or related at all. I would suggest the use of the Worm God figures was a representation of a more general, vague threat, as opposed to actual Worm Gods.

[old lark]

That's what I was thinking, because fallen slayer barons killing hive gods surely would have been mentioned else where

[dim minnow]

The design is synonymous with Worm Gods, but the Slayer Barons of old fighting them isn't very likely

[old lark]

I was trying to finish the eido quests to get the full lore book rundown for any clues

[dim minnow]

I-m waiting for the dialogue bug to be fixed before I do any more

[old lark]

What bug?

[dim minnow]

At the end of each major fieldwork after the first one, dialouge at the end doesn't play properly

[trim grotto]

Luckily I haven't done any other than the first

[dim minnow]

Same

Oh hey Mael

[old lark]

Ah, I thought they just didn't have audio. Damn

[dim minnow]

I got this theory and I want your opinion on it

[trim grotto]

Hit me

[old lark]

🧐

[dim minnow]

So, you know how Fikrul's Echo seemingly only affects Eliksni?

And there was some dialogue where it was stated that maybe the Echo was following its own nature

[trim grotto]

Sure, though keep in mind - I'm catching up on the written lore today, so I'm not up to date so far.

[old lark]

I think I see where this is going🙃

[dim minnow]

So, what if Fikrul's Echo is an Echo created from the memory of Eliksni who suffered from the Whirlwind?

[trim grotto]

Perhaps! I'll have to look into it myself as well, as I've barely interacted with the Episode so far, though.

[dim minnow]

Maybe you can pass it along to your Cryptarchy pals

[trim grotto]

I mean
You could too

[next bobcat]

How is Savathûn’s throne world holding itself together now? She’s in a state of half-alive half-deadness since we have immaru, is her light connected to their throne world so we’d have to kill her completely to get rid of the throne world? Or do thr9ne worlds persist indefinitely?

[trim grotto]

The Wellspring.

Also, us having Immaru doesn't stop her from being alive.

She's still out there.

[warm acorn]

Immaru is collateral

[fathom goblet]

You guys think glimmer smells like somthing?

[warm acorn]

money

[tough kettle]

it is "programmable" material, and as can be seen in game it can be made into many different items. i think it would be odorless in its base form because of this

no proof tho just what i think

[fathom goblet]

Nah it smells like blue kool-aid trust

[tough kettle]

so theoretically it could be made to smell like anything once its "programmed"

[fathom goblet]

They be using our glimmer to make ship air fresheners 💀

[tough kettle]

minty fresh jumpship

[next bobcat]

Ah.

[slim girder]

I like to think it's "unprogrammed" state is the blue cubes we see and use as currency. Then when people use glimmer to buy something they take it and turn it into what's being bought. Unless ofc it's something that would require outside materials like a house or ship.

[tough kettle]

that makes me wonder how we can "mine" glimmer

[slim girder]

Well it comes from somewhere surely. Unless things made from glimmer can be turned back into glimmer.

[lofty badge]

waiting for Byf to upload lore vids on Revenant

https://tenor.com/view/reee-kid-tantrums-gif-15375793

[trim grotto]

To be honest, I don't think there are many of the regulars here who actually watch Byf.

[slim girder]

I have also been eagerly waiting for byf to post but I just got to run the dungeon an hour ago and I'm very pumped for the lore.

I have the clear but nothing related to the other stuff I have to do for the dungeon.

It's like warlords it looks like where you do it and then a quest will send you back in multiple times to learn more each time.

How many times I don't know or how much lore is there exactly.

[slim girder]

Have you watched a content creator named evaze before? He does some pretty good vids and just put something out on the dungeon

[lofty badge]

i linked his vid on it earlier to a other guy

so yee i know about him

[lofty badge]

https://tenor.com/view/disappointing-snape-harry-potter-serious-gif-10575424

[slim girder]

Yeah I just watched his vid on the dungeon after going through the lore on the gear myself. Really cool stuff.

Now we just have to wait for the community to solve the puzzles because I've had a look and it's definitely something that's like D1 outbreak levels of complex

Lots of 1s and 0s

[lofty badge]

lol fair

sad we can't talk about in here yet

[slim girder]

Yeah. Gotta wait a bit. I'm still excited though from what I've been watching people do.

[lofty badge]

[trim grotto]

[frosty belfry]

why do we hear about animals in lore but we never see them?

[slim girder]

There's lots of cats around the tower

[outer dragon]

Tastes like cotton candy

[outer dragon]

I don't blame you for not remembering Lewis

But the Colonel? For shame

[jagged badge]

Louis

[outer dragon]

In my defense

Hawthorne is annoying

[ember storm]

Btw the Nessus bird specimen quest confirms that Louis is getting up there in years

[slim girder]

Babata, petris, captain Jacobson, archie (kinda), Louis and the colonel are our current furry/scaly/metallic friends.

We don't have a pouka yet.

[burnt peak]

wow i cant believe they named a real bird after the peregrine greaves from the hit game first person looter shooter destiny 2

[frosty belfry]

i mean like wild animals

like in the edz

[jagged badge]

Pretty sure you can see some sometimes

[fresh zephyr]

Someone explain lore of this dungeon

[jagged badge]

Not for 12 more minutes

[fresh zephyr]

Gg

[slim girder]

Soon my friend

[warm acorn]

DUNGEON LORE GO

[ember storm]

Dead things

Booo spooky

Spider is outsourcing labor

Not constitutional

[trim grotto]

We do
Rabbits, fish, birds

[analog torrent]

Nooooo read the lore
Some of the source material is legitimately peak fiction, you get a vastly different experience going through the prose yourself vs having it summarized for you

[lofty badge]

i fear i suck too much at the new dun

[outer dragon]

#1294319827640520714

[fresh zephyr]

Why'd you ping me

[outer dragon]

You wanted the loreof the dungeon
That's the channel for it right now

[fresh zephyr]

No one is taking about it

Talking

Cause no one knows 😭

[warm acorn]

i've done the puzzles to get the class item

and it sounds like the vesper AI is very spiteful and hates clovis

because clovis put the ai in standby mode

and she had to sit by and watch as everyone died

and the population of the station plummeted

basically she's a very lonely ai

who hates her creator

and the station came in contact with the anomaly

[fresh zephyr]

What's the anomaly

[warm acorn]

that is where i'm not too sure about

[fresh zephyr]

Also

[warm acorn]

it's some sort of vex creation i thin

think

[fresh zephyr]

You telling me this station has been here this whole time w an anomaly

[warm acorn]

rumor is that it's some kind of warp tunnel ig

[fresh zephyr]

And why did spider tell us to go and not the vanguard 😭

[warm acorn]

cause spider found out about it

[fresh zephyr]

Well that confirms something

[warm acorn]

not the vanguard

and spider wanted to do business under the table

[fresh zephyr]

What are the vanguard doing

[warm acorn]

and not involve the vanguard

[warm acorn]

not knowing lolol

[fresh zephyr]

Id rather work for spider than zalvala

[warm acorn]

lmao just be guns for hire

honestly i'd be down

[fresh zephyr]

Me 2

[warm acorn]

i'd totally be a gunslinger hunter

with gunpowder gamble

and like

knife trick

lol

[fresh zephyr]

Id work for fikrul

[warm acorn]

heck no

[fresh zephyr]

He's the new daddy no

[trim grotto]

The Vanguard didn't know about it. Spider explains it at the start, his scavenger on the station stopped responding and it was too dangerous to send his own people out to deal with it.

[trim grotto]

Well, he kind of hates us and wants to destroy us. Hates us with a passion. We killed his friends. We killed his "father".

[fresh zephyr]

You're telling me the vanguard doesn't know about this anomaly themselves

[fresh zephyr]

Bro id convince him

[trim grotto]

Not as far as I'm aware, no.
Space is a big place, and the anomaly wasn't always doing... that.

[fresh zephyr]

We have near light speed travel and warp drives and your telling me we don't know about this station

Was this station ever mentioned before

[trim grotto]

No, because we didn't know about it. I think you're overestimating our hold on the system.

[fresh zephyr]

I thought we rule the system bruh

[trim grotto]

We've barely enough people to fill a single city.

[fresh zephyr]

True

Technically there's 3.2 million guardians 👀

[trim grotto]

Not to mention Europa was a no-fly zone until a few years ago

[fresh zephyr]

What's drifter doing nowadays

[trim grotto]

And still an active threat with House Salvation and its Ketches in the sky

[fresh zephyr]

He has so much potential

You think next episode we see him

[trim grotto]

Not much since Final Shape

[trim grotto]

Uh, perhaps. Might pop up since I expect Eris will be there.

[fresh zephyr]

Be fr w me. From a lore perspective do you think the veil was a last minute thing added in to give neomuna a purpose or something

[fresh zephyr]

And they love each other

🤭

[trim grotto]

No. I think it was simply a victim of the way management sent the story, like a number of things related to Neomuna were.

Tried to hit a number of different marks, and with a gimmick, and fell short of a lot of them, leaving the story as a victim.

[fresh zephyr]

Do you ever get angry as a lore guy at how bad the fumble the story sometimes

[trim grotto]

I'm not a very angry person.

But some people do.

[fresh zephyr]

Be fr w me, I think a person off the street could do some better story telling then some seasons and dlcs we got. Cough lightfall

[fresh zephyr]

Not angry but you get annoyed or frustrated

Cause the game has amazing potential lore wise

Yet sometimes I feel like they fumble it so bad

[trim grotto]

Not often, no. I usually just roll with it.

I think I was more bothered by the dissonance between the Grasp of Avarice audio storytelling compared to the visual storytelling.

[fresh zephyr]

Bro I get annoyed and I'm not deep into lore like you

I respect it

[ember storm]

[warm acorn]

What’s the lore behind grasp

[pure tree]

Are Aisha's care/embrace, Shayura's wrath, and Reed's regret the trials fireteams actual weapons or are they just named after them?

[warm acorn]

^ true

[ember storm]

Have you ever seen that one 1985 family film about pirates that starts with the letter G and ends with s

[heady monolith]

grass

[tough kettle]

it rhymes with baloonies

i cant believe you cant say the name of that movie

goddamit

[ember storm]

It’s making me quite looney

[tough kettle]

goodnees without the d

[cloud gust]

That Vesper’s Host lore is INSANE

[warm acorn]

Yes many times

[warm acorn]

But where it at tho

[cloud gust]

It’s special puzzles throughout the dungeon
I have done the first 3 but there are more

[warm acorn]

I’ve gotten the class item

[cloud gust]

https://youtu.be/EBbBBa2yHa4?si=Pr1FJZRaPszVGoXF

[warm acorn]

And done the first puzzles after that

[cloud gust]

So wdym where the lore at?

[warm acorn]

Lmao I need more

I’m scratching the surface

[cloud gust]

Oh
A lot of it I got from Reddit but even without it assumptions can be made
||So the Vex Mind jumped to Atraks’ body when the Morning Star collided with Vesper Station. Withered Atraks pretty much inhabited the station alone until the Salvation refugees arrived. Withered Atraks started to assimilate these Fallen one by one until they were all under their control||

[warm acorn]

||Why was atraks on vesper station?||

[cloud gust]

||Her body was on the part of the Morning Star that collided with Vesper Station. ||

[warm acorn]

||And what is the morning star and why was her body on it?||

[cloud gust]

||So the Corrupted Puppeteer is actually Atraks-1, Fallen Exo. Yes, the one and only Fallen to successfully undergo the exomind procedure. She was originally a raid boss from the Deep Stone Crypt, which had the Morning Star orbital space station (which we blew up)||

||Withered Atraks made the assimilated Fallen build the anomaly. The pick up at the end of the dungeon says that a message was sent through the anomaly to an uncomprehensible destination. But where would a Vex Mind want to send a message to?
2082 Voltanis, of course (This part is assumed)||

[warm acorn]

What is 2082?

[cloud gust]

Where the other side of Glassway leads to
It’s a Vex Forge world where they make other vex

[warm acorn]

Oh I thought the anomaly was there before Atraks

So we “kill” Atraks in DSC, that orbital station we’re on crashes into vesper station

[cloud gust]

Nah that was all Atraks’ doing

[warm acorn]

That’s wild

[cloud gust]

Part of it does

[warm acorn]

And atraks built that because the vex mind connected with her?

[cloud gust]

It’s a special Vex Mind Hybrid that Clovis tested on
(Hybrid of what? Idk)
It was in Quarentine successfully until the Morning Star crashed into Vesper Station. Needing a host, it jumped to Atraks’ body

[warm acorn]

So this was in DSC?

[cloud gust]

It was between Deep Stone Crypt and Vesper’s Host

[warm acorn]

Lol wdym?

It would’ve been in quarantine when we were in DSC

[cloud gust]

We didn’t know this happened until the dungeon came out

[warm acorn]

Yeah obviously but now looking back, we would’ve been on Morningstar with that vex mind in quarantine

[cloud gust]

Oh no the Vex Mind was on Vesper Station
It broke free from Quarantine when the chunk of the Morning Star collided with Vesper Station

[warm acorn]

Oh ok ok

So basically the anomaly is a gateway

[cloud gust]

Yeah pretty much
It even looks to be siphoning power from the sun

[warm acorn]

So why was the arc energy orange?

[slim girder]

Because it was siphoning the suns power. The ai in the station is confused though because as it said it shouldn't be that colour which makes me think it's siphoning so much power it's changing the properties of the energy.
Kind of like how fire changes colour based on how hot it is.

It's way beyond stable levels.

[warm acorn]

Interesting

So let’s jump through it

[slim girder]

I don't think that would be wise. Something tells me we either end up like joxer with the traveler portal. Or the poor exo who got sent through the glass way portal. It's apparently incomprehensible so it's possible it could drive someone mad if they went through..

It emits a signal that can merge minds so a guardian falling to that corruption could be bad news. The ai even warns us to stay away but shutdown the operation.

[warm acorn]

That’s how we jump through space

[worldly river]

Man the lore tab on the seaosn pass ship, being in the head of an Eliksni as its turned into a Scorn mid-operation and turned against its allies is kind of disturbing

[worldly river]

I'm a little- well, a lot- confused what's going on with Saint's panic attack in the Shadestalker leg armorr tab, the entire thing seems presented as if Mithrax is dead? Like is Saint dreaming or something?

[dim minnow]

I think he's guilty since he feels like he was partly responsible for Mithrax's condition

[worldly river]

Yeah that makes sense, I think I was getting caught up with how Mithrax isn't there when Saint goes to his throne

Didn't get the impression he's in any condition to leave

But I guess he's standing whenever we see him so I guess he 's not THAT bad off

I really like the sidearm lore tab, first because it reveals that the Revenant Scorn are not only intelligent (as seen in other tabs) but CUNNING, enough to set a trap with a hatchling as a lure, and to do it TWICE

But also cuz of the second half where a random Cabal Legionary saves the hatchling before being saved by IT chomping at a Scorn's leg, and then promptly adopting it while saying its eaten "the first of many mountains"

I love it

[dusk isle]

https://garticphone.com/en/?c=02009b716a

[worldly river]

I hope we see more of that guy

[trim grotto]

...um.

Wrong server?

[dusk isle]

nah

i just need some people to play with ]

[trim grotto]

Definitely the wrong channel.

[dusk isle]

nerd

[trim grotto]

Well, yes. Still the wrong channel.

[worldly river]

Sir this is a lore channel

[dusk isle]

bro

one link is not gonna mess anything up

just join

[trim grotto]

Absolutely not

[dusk isle]

and have fun

[sick yew]

Nah homie

We aint playing Gartic Phone in the lore channel

#☀️off-topic-discussion if you gotta

[dusk isle]

yall so worried about 2 links

[trim grotto]

That lore tab raised a series of emotions
Like, wow. There's some solid writing in this Episode, it's really rising to the top of the charts for me

[dusk isle]

it is NOT gonna mess up anthing

[trim grotto]

Channels exist to talk about certain things
This is for lore

[worldly river]

If everyone gets "just two messages" then everything becomes chaos

Just use the channels for their intended usage

[dusk isle]

chaos...

buddy not that serious

[trim grotto]

With all due respect friend, just ask #☀️off-topic-discussion
It's why it's there

[worldly river]

Channels exist to keep the server organized
If we ignore the channel topics then why are they even there

[sick yew]

Enough now

I think they got it

[worldly river]

Anyway

[worldly river]

This as well @trim grotto

[trim grotto]

Oh yeah that was disturbing

[worldly river]

There's some really great bits of writing this season

Including Eramis's continual "WHAT THE FUCK IS A THERAPIST" rants

[dim minnow]

which is why I'm really hoping they do Fikrul well

he's been pretty good so far

I like the message he sent to us, how he wants to hurt us

and he's had a good presence

[worldly river]

As nonthreatening as the actual text of that line is it's really telling that this has gone beyond like, a professional vendetta so to speak

[dim minnow]

legit just drops into the HELM, announces himself as Kell of Kells, and then single-handedly causes it to crash

[worldly river]

It is VERY MUCH personal now

[dim minnow]

it has been personal for a while

in the Hallowed lair, he's spoken about how he would pay any price to be there when we die

[trim grotto]

Apparently crashing into it so hard that the emergency shutters broke

[dim minnow]

so hard it's in a different plane of existence apparently

[worldly river]

Well I can't say a direct impact from a Ketch wouldn't be enough for the former

Though the later ...

[trim grotto]

Fun fact
In game, it's somewhere below the marketplace

[worldly river]

That'd explain why the Excision cutscene is now below city structures

[dim minnow]

yeah, I think the skybox the HELM was supposed to have got mixed up with the post-exicsion end screen

you know, I'm kind of amazed that Fikrul allowed us to just waltz into that cave he was in where he spoke with Crow

like, we're #1 on his shit-list

of course, the conversation did eventually escalate

I guess it's nice that we finally got that Fikrul/Crow meeting we've been wanting

and they established that Fikrul is beyond reason at this point

so we gotta actually put him down

only question is how

[trim grotto]

Not surprised

[dim minnow]

though I did notice that in the Last City jail area, there was what appeared to be an Eliksni cryo-pod like the ones they use to hold people in the PoE

I bet we're putting someone in there at some point

Fikrul would be a reasonalbe guess since so far we don't really have an actual means to kill him, so the best we could do is take his Echo away, beat the shit out of him, and throw him in there while he's down

[worldly river]

I feel like the Vanguard would never let him be in the City, even in a cryopod
The only reason we let that happen with Savathun was cuz we KNEW she couldn't revive

Maybe we capture one of the Revenant Scorn and are able to question it

[sick yew]

Maybe not the Vanguard but the cryptarchs for sure

Hm yes just have a device capable of producing Siva nanites sitting in the old, damaged and largely unprotected tower

Surely nothing bad could ever happen

[dim minnow]

to be fair, the gun itself wasn't an issue

it was the ones stealing it

you know, I still think that Master Ives' death and Zero Hour are connected

[sick yew]

Even if the last city isnt exactly good when it comes to not having dangerous as fuck technology/artifacts just sitting around mostly unprotected

[dim minnow]

like you mean to tell me that a group of Fallen hiding out in the Cosmodrome (a location popular with the House of Devils [and SIVA]) went and killed Master Ives (a Cryptarch)

and this had nothing to do with another group of Fallen who were following Eramis (who wanted to restore the House of Devils) who were trying to steal a weapon made from SIVA (which was contained within a Cryptarch vault)

sure Ives wasn't a Last City Cryptarch, but way too much stuff lines up here

[worldly river]

Master Ives was the one involved in the original Thunderlord quest right?

[warm acorn]

Wait is this outbreak?

[dim minnow]

he was the one who's death we investigate in the D2 Thunderlord quest yes

[worldly river]

Yeh

[dim minnow]

the first part is Thunderlord
the second part is Outbreak Perfected

in the Thunderlord quest, we ended up going to the Cosmodrome (at this point it wasn't in D2 as a full destination)

and it was the Rise of Iron version of the Cosmodrome

[warm acorn]

What exactly is Siva?

And who made it

[dim minnow]

Goldne Age nanotech

Clovis Bray

[worldly river]

Made by Braytech

[warm acorn]

Bruh of course

[dim minnow]

specifically Willa Bray was the one leading the project

[warm acorn]

Of course it was Clovis

What’s the lore with all the iron lords?

[worldly river]

It was supposed to be used as an AI-driven colony construction tool

[warm acorn]

They like trapped themselves with siva to prevent it from spreading

[dim minnow]

they were a group of Lightbearers who banded together to put an end to the feudal Warlords who ruled over their territories with an iron fist

[warm acorn]

Warlords ruin 🤯

[dim minnow]

early on in the City Age, they went to where Felwinter believed SIVA was contained so they could use it to help the Last City

[worldly river]

Yeah Felwinter (one of Rasputin's golems who got ressed as a Lightbearer) found out about SIVA while researching why he could access Bray facilities so easily and why Rasputin kept throwing warsats at him from orbit

[dim minnow]

SIVA was a trap to lure Felwinter in

[worldly river]

Ras was not happy about his "son" being stolen by the Traveler and set SIVA against them

[dim minnow]

the SIVA took over the Iron Lords, turning them against one another

[worldly river]

Later on the House of Devils' Splicers broke in and it got out, but iirc Ras wasn't in control of it anymore

[warm acorn]

Wait so

[dim minnow]

in the end, Lady Jolder sealed the Replication Chamber leaving SIVA locked away until the Devil Splicers found it

[warm acorn]

Set by who tho?

[dim minnow]

by Rasputin

the Warmind

[warm acorn]

Why did Rasputin set a trap for his own son

[dim minnow]

jealousy

[warm acorn]

Or its own son

Bruh

[dim minnow]

he didn't like that the Traveler rezzed him

[worldly river]

They didn't call him the Tyrant for nothing

[warm acorn]

wtf😭

Nah Rasputin wack

[dim minnow]

Rasputin has some skeletons in his closet

[warm acorn]

Quite literally

That’s wild

[worldly river]

Specifically Felwinter's given how we found Felwinter's Lie

[warm acorn]

So the house devil splicers is like wrath of the machine raid?

[dim minnow]

liek blowing up a ship full of civilians just to stop one person from potentially revealing dangerous information

[dim minnow]

yeah, Aksis was the one leading him

[warm acorn]

Ok makes sense

What’s the lore of all the dungeons?

👀

[worldly river]

I mean there's been what
8?

[dim minnow]

that's a lot to go over

[warm acorn]

📖

I’m ready

Give me a brief rundown

This is my new favorite channel. I love learning lore

[dim minnow]

Shattered Throne: Enter Mara Sov's desecrated Throne World to put an end to the Dreaming City curse by facing Dul Incaru, Savathun's daughter.

Pit of Heresy: Enter the depths of the Hive temple on the Moon to stop the heretical ritual the remaining daughters of Crota are attempting. This ritual being the sacrifice of Nightmares in Altars of Sorrow to empower a crystal that allows them to ressurect Zulmak over and over again.

Prophecy: Enter the realm of the IX to ask them what the nature of Light and Dark is. Their answer is that the difference doesn't matter.

Grasp of Avarice: Enter the legendary loot caves to discover a tale of a fireteam torn apart by their own greed.

first 4

[warm acorn]

Okay okay makes sense. Shattered throne actually being important but too bad the curse still happens Lul

[dim minnow]

Duality: Enter the mindscape of Emperor Calus to learn more about his plans and what he seeks. We find that his mind is in conflict due to the shame he felt for his past actions. We also learn that he seeks transfiguration from the Witness since Calus himself is in an ailing body.

Spire of the Watcher: The time rifts on Mars have caused a long defunct pillory bunker to reactivate. Pillory bunkers are facilities meant to partition and contain AI minds in case they go rogue. Ares spire, the location we go to, was made to contain Soteria, an experimental AI made with Vex tech in a collaborative project between Clovis Bray and Ishtar Collective. Soteria discovered that the Collapse was coming and tried to send people away to save them, but was mostly stopped by Clovis. However, she managed to send a small fragment of her into a colony ship which ended up on Neptune. Fast forward to today, and we go there to stop the Witness' forces from stopping our efforts to fix Rasputin and to figure out what they were trying to discover.

Ghosts of the Deep: After Titan's return to the Sol System, a Hive ship belonging to the Lucent Brood crashed into the moon's methane depths. When we followed them, we found that they were attempting to ressurect Oryx, the Taken King, through a mix of the Light and Necromancy. After stopping them, the Vanguard decided that the best course of action was to bring Oryx's body to the Tower for some reason

[warm acorn]

Wait oryx’s body is at the tower?😭

Also the spire lore is very interesting to me

[trim grotto]

Not the Tower specifically. It was sequestered by the Hidden.

[warm acorn]

Who are the hidden?

[trim grotto]

Essentially Ikora Rey's spy network of Guardians.

Agents.

[warm acorn]

I want to be a hidden lol

Gg

[trim grotto]

Go to the Enclave on Mars, you can see a handful of them there.

[warm acorn]

We’re too high profile I guess

[warm acorn]

Oh ok cool

[trim grotto]

Eris Morn is one of the Hidden too. As is Fenchurch Everis.
One doesn't need to be little-known to be Hidden.

[warm acorn]

… we should totally be a hidden then

Also everyone should thank @dim minnow for typing out every dungeons lore. It’s very awesome

[trim grotto]

Well, there's a bit of duty attached to it.

[warm acorn]

Nothing worse than what we’ve been through. Saving the system countless times

[trim grotto]

"Know thy self." —second dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Destroy thy self." —third dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Shed thy self." —fourth dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Embrace a new skin." —fifth dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"Become the many." —sixth dictate, first calling, The Hidden
"We are as unseen. We are as death." —final dictate, first calling, The Hidden```

[warm acorn]

I feel like we’ve done a majority of those

[trim grotto]

Also to be fair that's basically what we are in the Witch Queen campaign

We're directly working alongside the Hidden

[warm acorn]

I liked the forensic themed campaign it was a lot of fun

[dim minnow]

Warlord's Ruin: Reports of Scorn in the EDZ led us to an old castle that was home to the remains of a vengeful Ahamkara named Hefnd. During the Dark Age, Hefnd was slain by Lord Shaxx and was later found by a disgraced Warlord named Naeem who made a deal with him. In this agreement, Hefnd would grant wishes to people, and any consequence for the wish would be given to Naeem instead of the wisher. As a result, Naeem would get a lot of tribute from surrounding villages for her generosity. However, the Fallen House of Kings would hear of this and would arrive at the castle to take Hefnd's power for themselves. While they killed Naeem, Hefnd would unleash his fury by turning them into Scorn and infesting the castle with Taken. Time passed, and Fikrul would learn of the Scorn in the castle, and would send his "knights" in an attempt to claim them for his own Scorn army.

as for the newest dungeon, I'm still looking through it all

haven't even gotten my first clear done yet

[warm acorn]

Wait warlords ruin is awesome

[worldly river]

All I know about Vesper's Host is ||There's a spoopy Atraks||

I'll probably dig through the lore tabs when they go up on Ishtar on Tuesday

[dim minnow]

something to note about dungeons is that Bungie has been using them to foreshadow future store threads

[warm acorn]

Where does one go to learn about all the lore? What is this Ishtar you speak of

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net

Welcome

[warm acorn]

0-0

I’m starting my journey

[trim grotto]

About 95% of written lore is in here
The 5% being physical collector's edition lore

[warm acorn]

…tomorrow

[dim minnow]

Duality - Lightfall and Calus
Spire of the Watcher - Lightfall and Neomuna
Ghosts of the Deep - Probably the next episode, Heresy
Warlord's Ruin - Revenant
Vesper's Host - ???

[dim minnow]

but you can find that 5% easily anyways

hell, you can find most of it in this channel's pins

[warm acorn]

I think vespers host will be Apollo

[dim minnow]

perhaps

[warm acorn]

Wait how did spire foreshadow bromine

Neomuna*

[dim minnow]

the lore pretty much explains how Neomuna would be founded

[warm acorn]

Oh yeah the piece of AI

sent to Neptune

That’s so cool

And that AI/vex hybrid is the final boss?

[dim minnow]

Soteria?

no

[warm acorn]

Oh

[trim grotto]

just a big Wyvern

[dim minnow]

Soteria is contained the the Heirarchy of Needs exotic bow now

[warm acorn]

Oh I see

[dim minnow]

except for the fragment of her that is on Neptune

[warm acorn]

So that big wyvern is just there lol

[trim grotto]

It was Sol Divisive, sent there by the Witness to discover the secrets of the Spire.

[dim minnow]

the Wyvern was there to try and destroy the facility so we couldn't get any advantage

[dim minnow]

also to hinder our efforts to restore Rasputin

[warm acorn]

Gotcha gotcha

[dim minnow]

and the leave no trace of the bunker behind

[warm acorn]

Makes sense

[dim minnow]

it was a three-pronged attack

[warm acorn]

Ok one last question before I go to bed

Is the whole Mara and Shaxx thing legit?💀

[trim grotto]

No.

[dim minnow]

it's not that kind of meeting

[warm acorn]

Ok so they don’t have history

In that sense

[dim minnow]

they kind of do, but more so in them sharing a close friend

[trim grotto]

They spoke of Sjur Eido, Mara's partner and Lord Shaxx's friend.

[dim minnow]

well, she was more than a friend to Mara

but she was a good friend to Shaxx

[warm acorn]

Oh ok so they’re just friends

They just share a mutual friend

[trim grotto]

She was *killed by the Nine

*probably, accidentally, maybe not dead, it's a bit weird

[warm acorn]

The nine are something I still don’t understand

[trim grotto]

Insomuch as two women who sleep together are friends

[dim minnow]

I also think that the lore tab implied that Shaxx convinced Mara to stop the House of Wolves from joining Twilight Gap

[warm acorn]

Yes but shaxx and Mara are just buds

[trim grotto]

They didn't really have history.

[warm acorn]

Rip

[dim minnow]

sentient clouds of space dust bound to the gravity of Sol's planets and also bound to the life in Sol

[trim grotto]

Oh?

[warm acorn]

Shaxx is still the goat

[warm acorn]

WAIT WHAT?💀

[dim minnow]

when Shaxx apepare dbefore Mara, she told him that it was time to "pay her back" for Twilight Gap

[trim grotto]

hang on dova i have this one give me a sec

[warm acorn]

Nah I did not just learn that the nine are space clouds

I thought they were like gods 💀

[dim minnow]

Mara slapped the mug out of his hand. It shattered on the floor. She shoved a weathered book in his face. "I told you there would come a time when I collect for the Reef Wars. Read this. Out loud."

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-dust
If you want to learn of the Nine, I recommend this. The entry The Nine specifically describes them, but the entire lore book is recommended.

[dim minnow]

they're something like omnipotent

[trim grotto]

That's... I think you're interpreting that to be deeper than I am.

[dim minnow]

and they can boild your brain while it's still in your skull

[dim minnow]

I mean, is it not possible?

[worldly river]

Though in a sense we still know very little about the Nine's actual nature

[trim grotto]

Sure. But I personally find that to be a reach.

[dim minnow]

I don't really think it's tha tmuch of a reach

[worldly river]

Sounds plausible to me

[trim grotto]

I do not expect that it took the plea of Lord Shaxx to convince Queen Mara to step in.

She did not want Humanity to go extinct.

[dim minnow]

maybe he spoke to a mututal friend

[trim grotto]

I realise what you're suggesting Dova, but I still do not believe that likely.

[dim minnow]

of course she did not, but the Reef Wars was a very costly fight for the Awoken

[trim grotto]

Indeed it was.

[dim minnow]

despite the fact Mara opened the Reef Wars by obliterating the largest asteroind in the belt

[trim grotto]

It was certainly a heck of a move.

[dim minnow]

which not only killed the current Wolves Kell, but also took out a shit ton of their firepower

[dim minnow]

on that too

I could totally see Mara wanting to help humanity already

but Shaxx asking her was just a very good excuse for her to do it

and also to make sure that Shaxx would owe her one

[trim grotto]

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying I do not believe it.

[dim minnow]

did she not pull something like this in D1?

she leads us to the Black Garden gateway even though she claims that she doesn't want the black Heart destroyed

then she makes it clear we owe her a favor for it

only for this favor to be a very convoluted way of showing off our skills to her and the Nine

[trim grotto]

Well, yes. I expect she'd do this regardless of whether Shaxx was involved or not.

[lofty badge]

can people or beings with a powerful will command taken?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[lofty badge]

so it could be possble for like our guardians to control lesser taken?

[sick yew]

Theoretically?

I guess yeah

[trim grotto]

Us? Probably not. But it's theoretically possible.

Taken have historically served beings of great power. Oryx, Savathûn. We are their antithesis, however.

[sick yew]

I mean if we really really really want to we probably could

We ourselves have sorta become Taken aswell now that I think about it

Or were like on the verge of becoming Taken or whatever

I didnt listen to Mara

[lofty badge]

[lofty badge]

ye, and well we are beings of great power

[trim grotto]

I'm sure people have some moral qualms about commanding the faction of forcibly converted and enslaved beings.

[sick yew]

Command or shoot

Call it

[lofty badge]

true lol

but i don't think we can perma kill taken either, as it seems in some final shape lore they go to some darkness realm and have to do stuff before returning

[worldly river]

Speaking of Mara was able to control at least one Taken Knight on her own iirc

If anyone could seize control of a contingent it'd be her

Though even with Xivu Arath's hold on them broken (I think?) and the Witness gone I highly highly doubt she could take over them wholesale

[sick yew]

How do you figure?

[worldly river]

Cuz she... Mentioned it?

In Wish

During one of the activity ending dialogues

[sick yew]

I didnt play during wish lol

One of my break seasons

So enlighten me

[worldly river]

https://youtu.be/mxhvzI6v47o She mentions it here but I'm thinking of another entry, maybe it was text

I think I can find it

I don't know which entry it specifically is but Byf clips it at 6:28 here https://youtu.be/GiqHYaMCilM

[frosty belfry]

why does destiny paracausal power and magic not have priority over biology

[worldly river]

Wdym?

[frosty belfry]

like why can’t the magic and paracausal make hybrids

[worldly river]

"Magic" is paracausality

Though "magic" as far as what the Awoken, Hive, and Ahamkara use is indeed different from Light and Darkness, and beings are capable of wielding magic and Light or Dark

[frosty belfry]

yes

didn’t mean to say magic wasn’t paracausal i worded it bad myf

but why can’t this paracausal power make hybrid races

like eliksni and cabal

bc we already know hive and eliksni can

[worldly river]

Like... Using it to physically fuse them? I don't think anyone has ever tried to do such a thing

There was the Mindbender among the Scorn Barons but he was just a dude using Hive magic and wearing a skull

[jagged badge]

Wdym?

[trim grotto]

I honestly have no idea what you mean.

[lofty badge]

is hive magic not at one time described as a science?

or similar to?

[trim grotto]

Is this meant to reference the Mindbender or the brood on the Tangled Shore? Some of the Worms there were Ether-infused, but that was a volatile and deadly combination, and the Mindbender was not part Hive.

[trim grotto]

Well, Ana Bray said that many years ago back on Mars, but no, it isn't.
There is a logic and flow to it, a method of understanding it, but it's objectively a force of paracausal nature that the Hive are calling upon.

I suppose you could define that as a science depending on how you use the term

[lofty badge]

yeah i gues sso

in terms of knowing ways/the logic of it and what not

like how warlocks likly have records of certain light abilities that guardians can use after centuries of experince and learning

[trim grotto]

I think if you said that to Eris Morn she'd probably just give you a withering look

[lofty badge]

lol yeah

[lofty badge]

can Scorn procreate via having hatchlings or what not? or is raising new fallen/raising dead scorn with intact corpses the only way?

[trim grotto]

Scorn, historically, are reanimated corpses, unlike Guardians who are returned to life.

I doubt they can. I doubt the Revenant Scorn can either, honestly, though nothing has been said either way for either type.

[lofty badge]

got cha

[ember storm]

They could resurrect dead hatchlings if they wanted

Which is what mini screebs probably are which exist in a canonical context

The big ugly abomination crow and Cayde killed in the still hunt mission was covered in them

[lofty badge]

that is rather horrfing

looking at it Revenant is likly one of the most scariest and dangerous times to be a fallen

like its straight up the vampire-zombie apocalypse

for em

[fresh zephyr]

Genocide

[warm acorn]

I fell asleep reading the dust book @trim grotto 😂

[tawdry mauve]

wonder if destiny rising is gonna have some heavy lore implications for the base game

even though it is an alternate timeline it could answer some questions about the current continuity

also wtf is happening in the edz

[lofty badge]

what's destiny rising?

WAIT WHY DID I FIRST HEAR ABOUT THIS NOW

[tawdry mauve]

because it was just announced

a mere 15 minutes ago

[lofty badge]

ahh

[frosty belfry]

destiny rising??

[lofty badge]

where Cabal at

why no cabal in trailer 😠

[frigid sparrow]

Cabal dead

[lofty badge]

https://tenor.com/view/ree-pepe-triggered-angry-ahhhh-gif-13627544

[hallow horizon]

What the fuck is that

[versed orbit]

Destiny mobile game

Be excited

[hallow horizon]

Oh..

Sounds meh

[dull raft]

looks like something i'd see in arknights 💀

[lilac flume]

Devs looking over the timeline. What the hell is “Haven”? Social Space?

[dull raft]

could be a name for the city site before they built the city?

[worldly river]

Raising new Scorn from dead Eliksni was their only method of reproduction, it's part of the whole premise of the Warlord's Ruin dungeon because their numbers (at least under Fikrul) were dwindling with the only new Scorn being created being raised by the Witness

Now they can just mutate them from living Eliksni which is even more horrifying

[lofty badge]

yeah

[lofty badge]

so killing revenant scorn with guns and abilites that disintegrate their bodies fully feels like a mercy tbh as fallen are unwillingly turned into those monsters too

[worldly river]

Yeah, and even dead scorn can come back to life after they're "killed"

And each time they do they degrade physically and cognitively until they're Screebs, mindless and riddled with explosive tumors

[lofty badge]

ye, so just disintegrating them is the way to go

unless Fikrul is as OP as a ghost with bringing back scorn even if disintegrated

[ember storm]

Well that seems to be how revenant scorn and their totems work

The echo is made with light, so

[lofty badge]

ye tho so far we have only seen the revenant barons with them not common revenant scorn

[ember storm]

I assume the rising threat is Fikrul trying to implement that for all the scorn

We have yet to see anything of his “vampire keep”

[trim grotto]

He's keeping it from us

[ember storm]

Must be a trusted keepsake

[next bobcat]

I’m glad that destiny rising will likely not be canon

[mild folio]

That was cancelled before

I so sad they didn't make ornaments armor

Plus we need more story about Rising

[trim grotto]

The entire premise and game is non-canon to the primary universe of Destiny, so I'm not particularly concerned about the stories it may involve.

[ember storm]

garfield will be there

[eager trout]

Something is Rising

[tawdry mauve]

holy shit

[tawdry mauve]

i mean its non canon by the nature of it being an alternate timeline

but it could still answer some questions about the main continuity

[trim grotto]

I doubt it. There's a hammer the size of a skyscraper in the EDZ and the timeline doesn't match up for what events we're seeing already.

Best we can get are character designs for otherwise unseen characters

[tawdry mauve]

this is all immediately post collapse no?

well

not immediately

but shortly after

a long time has passed since then till about now

[trim grotto]

Dark Ages, vaguely.

Really though it is very far removed already
I don't have time to explain further though I've got to go

[eager trout]

Our Destiny is Rising

[grand spindle]

Real talk tho destiny rising got a whole ass better void super lol

[trim grotto]

It got a few neat abilities and concepts. Interesting character designs.

[grand spindle]

I'd imagine we're going to be seeing some reworked abilities in our future if destiny rising does well enough

Like healing grenade providing a mini healing rift

Or them merging both novas into one an giving us something from there

I really wanna know the lore on that void cannon though

Looks like something Lamar would cook up

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure how much lore this game will have as an alternate universe. I am curious, though.

[keen oracle]

So has something|| possessed atrak’s body considering the bosses name||

vespers host

[eager trout]

Honkai Impact 3rd Void Super

Also, someone finally mentioned our destiny

[limpid blaze]

Someone gimme the quick version. What is the portal like thing in vesper supposed to be?