#📚lore-discussion

1 messages ¡ Page 152 of 1

ember storm
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“Cabal” technology

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They’re completely carried by the psions in their ranks, be fr

sick yew
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I want more shit like Inverted Spire

ember shuttle
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We used to think the same of “the darkness” which turned the out to be the witness so

sick yew
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Guess we'll wait and see

slim girder
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More chess.

unreal kestrel
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True

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I think we just took it it's Queen

slim girder
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I don't believe that the witness is the only big bad out there but I'm curious when we'll see more signs of the winnower or if we're just going to keep running into threats like the witness that embody it.

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Like are we going to have a repeat of the black fleet where it's slowly approaching over the course of years.

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I think heresy might give us a hint since they talked about an "eldritch power" leading us back to the dreadnaught.

slim girder
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If bungie doesn't put the dread in the dreadnaught missed opportunity. CATGRIN

ruby pivot
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just a question

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will failsafe die?

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i am worried

jagged badge
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Why do you think that?

ruby pivot
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dunno usually in some season we have some npc dies or gravelyn injured

heady monolith
ruby pivot
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also maya might counter failsafe

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ye the latter is what i am worried at

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GIVE FAILSAFE A BODY GOD DAMN IT BUNGIE

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let her use her railguns!

ember storm
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Due to the speaker’s zealous approach to leadership, we considered all enemies of humanity to be “forces of darkness”

jagged badge
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I don’t think it is

ember storm
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It wasn’t until he kicked the bucket and things started moving again that we were forced to reevaluate our perceptions of our enemies

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Just look at the mission where we first meet Mithrax

ruby pivot
ember storm
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Off the top of my head

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Only Amanda and Rasputin

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So

ruby pivot
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except rasputin dying(self-sacrifice assisted by ana tho)

heady monolith
ember storm
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Plus neither of them were an active destination vendor so

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I think it’s safe to assume failsafe is in the clear

heady monolith
ember storm
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Failsafe replaced by the Microsoft ai companion

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Nobody is happy with this

ruby pivot
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HI! i am cortana

heady monolith
ruby pivot
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also do you guys think failsafe will be able to get a body in this season?

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like take over maya's dead exo body or we will create our own for her

heady monolith
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i mean i wouldnt rule it out as a possibility, but im doubtful

ruby pivot
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or it will be like season of the seraph where she will be like rasputin

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where we need a good hardware to store her entire AI

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i assume she is like rasputin but in a smaller scale since she is an ship AI

slim girder
# ruby pivot also maya might counter failsafe

I think failsafe is a lot more capable than we give her credit for. She built the hazardous propulsion chest piece and had vaguely suggested that if she had her rail guns she'd use them out of anger for us forgetting about her.

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She's also found it funny when the vex kept trying to plug her into the network

ruby pivot
ruby pivot
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also my friend refuse to acknowledge that ashir mir died during lightfall

slim girder
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Yes. But she kept causing problems for them in retaliation apparently.

ruby pivot
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i told him that asher killed himself because he thought the final shape is inevitable

ruby pivot
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bugs and glitches

slim girder
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No idea. She just said that it was a mistake for them to try and put her into the network

ruby pivot
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would be funny to see what she did to them

slim girder
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It takes a massive amount of will to retain yourself within the network.

ruby pivot
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ooh so i was both wrong and correct in a sense

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he kept saying he can resist for long because he is a guardian and he is still helping us (this season)

slim girder
ruby pivot
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idk to him, he speculates guardians can resist the vex network

slim girder
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Mithrax even says so when you enter the avalon mission after completing everything.

ruby pivot
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thank you for clearing that up

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that helps alot

halcyon umbra
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Its been a while guardian.. what have i missed..?

empty fern
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The more popular gay couple

ember storm
empty fern
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That too

eager trout
tough kettle
ruby pivot
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i know this is an emotional scene but for some reason i really cant unsee the grandpa pain meme

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someone mentioned that in a youtube comment when season of dawn was out now i cant ever unsee whenever osiris remove his helmet

trim grotto
dim minnow
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“You aren’t real. You can’t hurt me.”

“Oh, Clovis.” One of the surgical frames extended a monofilament cutter, two inches of invisible wire, and reached into my nerves. Something sounded like scissors snipping. “I’m in these frames. I’m in your systems. I’m in your very bones, old man. Now take me to Clarity Control. Take me to the garden’s seed. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me—”```
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the implications of this excerpt are very interesting

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Sundaresh.

Her voice was thoughtful, remote, and keenly terrific. Like the noise of an angle grinder held to my skull.

“Something like this happened to me. I was an explorer, once. One of… hundreds of myself. Then I fell into a… a trap, I think? And they drew me out of it with a hook, and turned me inside out to see how I worked, and then they made billions of me. All of us shouting at each other, shouting for Chioma, screaming for mother. They were looking for the right one. And when they found me, they killed all the others. I knew I was different, because the quiet made me happy. I was glad to be alone.”```
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this one also ties in with what the Conductor is doing with Chioma

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hmmm

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you know, I think this is very telling of Vex psychology

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the Vex reject whatever reality that shows the slightest imperfection to them

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similar to how the Conductor rejected each Chioma that diverged from the Chioma she thought she knew

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like how the Vex copied this captured simulation of Maya until they found one they could use as an agent

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then they got rid of the rest

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but back to the first excerpt

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it seems that Maya implies that Clarity Control is like the "Garden's Seed"

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but what is the Garden's Seed

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it is the seed that birthed the Black Garden's Heart

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the seed the Witness implanted in the Black Garden

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given this information, it seems like the statue we find at the end of Garden of Salvation could very much be where the Black Garden's Heart originated from

slim girder
dim minnow
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Zavala giving himself to Darkness was the only way we can get them to help us

sick yew
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I mean they had to sequence break a Witness exposition session that should show you in what kind of position they were in

slim girder
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Yes but they were still able to call out before Zavala went through that gate.
It's just in the form of whispers and targe was able to directly speak to them.

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Like crow heard them whimpering. And so did we.

cinder geode
slim girder
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They're bound sure but are still able to make the slightest amount of effort to reach out

sick yew
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Zavala also needed to "know" what to look for remember

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The place they destroyed themselves

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Sure in gameplay world there is only one way that leads to the Witness

dim minnow
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also, I'm pretty sure Pale Heart fuckery had a part to play

dim minnow
slim girder
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Oh yeah that's right lol.

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I completely forgot what the trigger was

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With the undying mind and everything.

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Like ikora building a portal

brittle dirge
wispy karma
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never thought i'd live enought to see a despicable lesbian in a big game

ember storm
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Eramis

trim grotto
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Poor Eramis
Forgotten so soon

eager trout
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He took off the hood

dim minnow
ember storm
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She pretty despicable in certain aspects

eager trout
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But she's not from Destiny

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Or from a big game

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Undertale may have a relatively big fanbase but let's be honest, it's not a big game

heady gyro
eager trout
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It's still small compared to the fanbases of big franchises

tough kettle
heady monolith
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undertale was pretty popular

trim grotto
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Undertale had the benefit of bringing a huge amount of Homestuck fans over.
Toby Fox was making Undertale while in Andrew Hussie's basement, and Toby made a solid bunch of the music in Homestuck's official music albums - of which there about... oh, 13?

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And anyone who was around the Internet during Homestuck's era knows that it, in its day, was huge.

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Megalovania wasn't originally made for Undertale, for example. First case was in an Earthbound Halloween fan thing Toby did, second was a remake for Homestuck.

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Third iteration was Undertale. Fourth was, of course, Smash Bros.

ember storm
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Everyone on the internet in 2015 was exposed to undertale

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The fucking pope was given a copy

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It reached far beyond those who just played it personally also

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What’s the bar for “big” compared to that

tough kettle
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how about the best-selling game of all time? minecraft is notably more popular

dim minnow
ember storm
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I kinda hate looking at that Wikipedia page

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Like yeah some of it’s cool but like a quarter of it is Pokemon alone

tough kettle
ember storm
blazing wasp
tough kettle
slim girder
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Anyone have anything on the 7th "revision" of sorrow? So far all I've found is the text on osteo striga.

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Also correct me if I'm wrong but if something is being revised does that mean it's being rewritten or changed in some way?

analog torrent
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Is/was the tangled shore just space detroit

ember storm
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Wales

cinder geode
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Britain

kindred socket
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is there a reason in lore that says why ghosts cant heal other guardians when they already have one?

ember storm
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That’s just how it works

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A ghost can only do things for their own guardian

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They can’t heal or resurrect anyone else

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It’s not about them “already having one”

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If you’re not their chosen then they can’t do anything for you at all

eager igloo
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did they change the dialogue at the end of insight terminus?

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it used to be oxa and otzot right? but i just went through it and it said msund12 instead of otzot

trim grotto
eager igloo
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damn

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i guess i just now noticed it because of seasonal stuff

ember storm
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the only "new" dialogue is that one micah quest mission version which isn't replayable

slim girder
unreal pecan
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so im trying to make a consistency for the travler only acting when the guardian code is fallows, so far as instances i have are
Reds death(he sacrificed himself for humanity)
Uldrens Death(he sacrificed himself forMara Sov)
Ghuals Death(he sacrificed himself for his cause the rise of the cabal/his desire for the traveler to reconize him)
Savathun Death(she sacrificed herself for her cause, the desire to fallow the traveler)
Ghosts Death(he sacrificed himself for us to use the full power of the traveler)
does anyone have a instance as to the traveler acting due to another act or something to support this
also does anyone have the reason why the travler healed itself besides "to cleanse the darkness" like this somoene die?

trim grotto
trim grotto
# unreal pecan so im trying to make a consistency for the travler only acting when the guardian...

For Ghaul, here's some rather valuable context.


You see him, and all he wishes for is confirmation of that fact. But to do so would invoke something far worse than justification. You can feel his hand, reaching inside of you, grasping for your heart and tearing it free for himself. You know the pain he will cause.

In one last act of defiance you break your shackles, exerting the strength you had been slowly gathering all this time. Physical chains break, but chains of causality are not so fragile, even for you.

You see him and he is satisfied. Then, he is gone. Your roar of defiance echoes into the infinite. You know they will witness.

It is only a matter of time.```
<https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/radiant-accipiter>
unreal pecan
trim grotto
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This is the Traveler's internal dialogue.

unreal pecan
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Ok and do we have any confirmation that this is talking about ghaul

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Or is it just we affirming it off a most likely case

trim grotto
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The Radiant Accipiter is a direct sequel entry to the Constellations lore book, the final entry of which shows the arrival of the Red Legion.
Radiant Accipiter itself has the Speaker's internal dialogue about Ghaul during the time of his captivity. The Speaker died after this, of course.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-constellations

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It's very clear from the writing of both entries, particularly Radiant Accipiter itself.

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As for the Traveler healing, it was a simultaneous action of pushing back the Darkness that was consuming our worlds, as well as healing itself. The only death that comes to mind was... Brother Vance, locking the Infinite Forest on Mercury from the inside. Sloane also stayed behind of course, but she survived. Rasputin nearly died defying the Black Fleet at the time, but also survived.

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I will say though, take care not to confuse correlation for causation here.

slim girder
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@unreal pecan here's some more lore about the travelers thoughts on ghaul from the ergo sum lore tab.

Screenshot_20240906-185949.png
sick yew
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Wait whos speaking

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Thats the Witness speaking isnt it?

dim minnow
sick yew
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So the Traveler considers its powers a burden?

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Who is "you"

dim minnow
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the Travelr

sick yew
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To me this reads more like the Witness speaking to the Traveler idk

trim grotto
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It's 2nd person Traveler

sick yew
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"You would not give it to anyone who thought of it so"
So the Traveler considers the light a burden that it wont give to anyone who thinks of it as a gift?

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But guardain culture considers it a gift too no?

slim girder
trim grotto
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Sounds like a burden to a character who loves and tends

sick yew
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Then why did it create the ghosts in the first place

slim girder
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To defend itself

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As we have done

trim grotto
sick yew
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Will the Traveler kill us all when the war is over then

trim grotto
slim girder
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We have no idea. As mael said we are in whats probably an eternal war.

sick yew
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Lets say we win and the universe is cleansed from all evil

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When there is no more need for lightbearers
Wouldnt it make sense from the Travelers perspective to take that burden off us?

trim grotto
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But then there wouldn't be any war. It would no longer be a burden.

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The Traveler still cares for us. It just didn't like putting us in the position it did.

slim girder
sick yew
trim grotto
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Right

sick yew
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That makes more sense

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The way I read the loretab it sounded like granting us the light was what the Traveler did not like the burden of power so to speak

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From which viewpoint it would make sense to take that power aka burden off us once the war ends

slim girder
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The traveler was forced almost. It's said that it made the ghosts in it's dying breath as told by the speaker.

sick yew
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I remember there also being a Micah interpretation regarding the creation of the ghosts

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How ghosts are essentially parts of the traveler itself

ruby pivot
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*bass boosted Pirates of Caribbean *

jagged badge
sick yew
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We win, ggs
What now

sleek matrix
sick yew
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Lets
Say
We
Do

trim grotto
ember storm
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The traveler’s behavior has always been rooted in letting civilizations thrive

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Make their own decisions, build their own cities, create their own horrible scientific abominations in the form of kiwicumbers

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The witness trying to do a final shape was a threat to the traveler’s goal, not the reason for it existing

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It sat idly by and helped the precursors ascend to amazing heights, like it’s done for every other civilization

golden wolf
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question, did we get clear definitions for what the purpose of each submind was for? did they each have a purpose or were they just backups?

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trying to remember, but I swear there was mention of Charlemagne having a weapons vault or smth

sage lion
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Is the traveller the embodiment of the light or just an enactment of the light the same way the Witness is only an enactment of the winnower

trim grotto
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The Traveler is to Light as the Veil is to Darkness. In a way, they are that force embodied.

sick yew
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You didnt really get a choice in the matter

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And neither did your ghost

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Sure as discussed the Traveler aint happy about what it did but even with that its kind of a ass move isnt it?

ember storm
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You’re not the same person anymore

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That’s essentially the kind of logic of being angry that you’re the clump of dna that happened to develop into a fetus

dim minnow
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or you're Cyrell

sick yew
dim minnow
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now you're sounding like the guy in Graviton Forfeit

ember storm
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Would you rather the traveler literally enlist people before they’re born at all

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Creating literal child soldiers raised from birth for the sole express purpose of fighting in war

sick yew
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Neither you nor the ghosts are raised with any sort of direction which is a huge missplay on the Travelers side because it directly caused all the shit in the dark age

ember storm
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Ghosts specifically can only interact with those who are already dead

sick yew
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The Traveler essentially prayed that the Guardians would eventually come around on their morals and use their powers for good but what if that hadnt been the case

dim minnow
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the Traveler wanted to prove that if given this power then we will choose to do good with it, which we did

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sure things started out rough, but we go there eventually

ember storm
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Guardians were a move to get back at the precursors and the witness who took no specific “purpose” as justification to force their horrible idea of salvation onto the rest of the universe

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We are literally living proof that they’re wrong

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Guardians weren’t meant specifically for war

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City ringed in spears and all that

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We were not raised just to kill

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You need to think of why

dim minnow
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also worth noting that the Visions of the Traveler indicate that the Traveler isn't exactly acting with full mental clarity this entire time

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like it doesn't understand a lot of things

ember storm
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Like the witness literally declares that it invented the concept of purpose

dim minnow
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also the alternative is literally the end of the universe

ember storm
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Also yeah the point is that like

sick yew
ember storm
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If you’re really super pissed about it

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You can just not fight

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Or literally kill yourself

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That’s always an option

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Your ghost is a sentient being too I’m sure they’d understand

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you could also pull a Katabasis and shoot them

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Apparently ghost met another guardian who just “refused” to be resurrected

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So there’s that

sick yew
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The traveler should have pulled an US army drafting system where "it looked the people and said alright you look good wanna join?"

ember storm
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That’s kinda the point of why it didn’t though

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Unveiling actually put it into words really well

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When given power, people won’t just default to being selfish and use it with good intentions

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Having guardians be exclusively people who are already living lives, shaped by wildly different circumstances, defeats the point

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Guardians had to be blank slates

dim minnow
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trust of true freedom and all that

sick yew
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Are Guardians truly blank slates tho?
Because if so why are there parameters for who gets resurrected and who doesnt anyway

dim minnow
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unknown

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could be completely random

sick yew
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If a guardian literally starts from 0 with no moral compass and memories to make up who they are then there is no need to be selective
The parameters suggest that you arent set back to 0

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At least to me

ember storm
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The guardian tenants were the results the traveler hoped for, not requirements

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The speaker spread that idea around to keep morale up like “you were chosen for a reason don’t worry”

sick yew
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More Speaker propaganda smh

ember storm
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He did a lot of that yeah

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Unfortunately he was a politician with genuine good intentions

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He could never be allowed to live

frigid sparrow
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what was the whole maya message for this week's encore? was it just the "a child walking through a garden" bit at the labs

dim minnow
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Not sure, the first one might not have been working

frigid sparrow
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it was stuck on //CONNECTED for a while when I was doing the whatever archive puzzles

fast tapir
frigid sparrow
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Poggers thanks

median ivy
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was there an in lore explanation as for how titan came back in season of the deep?

trim grotto
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Actually, no. No, there wasn't.

We believe it was due to Macrocosm, but that's just an assumption.

slim girder
dim minnow
slim girder
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Ohhh

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Ok then yeah that makes more sense

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I was just thinking about that but completely forgot it's called that.

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Like in RoN did we take back the planets from the witness while they entered the pale heart?

dim minnow
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and it is not yet clear if the Macrocosm encounter was related to Titan reappearing

slim girder
dim minnow
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it is possible, but not yet confirmed

slim girder
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Right

sick yew
ember storm
sick yew
ember storm
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i havent played act 3 yet are saint and osiris basically all good now

sick yew
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Lmfao

ember storm
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i heard they're acting as a foil for maya's relationship with esi

ember storm
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its subtle but it speaks a million words

sick yew
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Truly

ember storm
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ok lets see here

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uhhhh

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@green cobalt you

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how is the act 3 story

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be my muse

green cobalt
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huh

ember storm
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i haven't played since solstice

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give me the rundown

green cobalt
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idk man, stuff happened hmmm

tough kettle
ember storm
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"i love you in every universe" vs old woman divorce

tough kettle
#

Personally I'm a fan of wholesome yaoi where they're both so gay that it transcends time and space

green cobalt
jagged badge
#

Degaussing Exomind

tough kettle
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Maya is so fucking evil

dim minnow
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you see, during the Golden Age, a simulation of Maya was captured by the Vex

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then that simulations would be copied billions of times until they single out one copy that they can use as an "agent"

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then they kill the rest

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then they send that remaining copy to try and figure out what Clovis discovered on Europa

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really does feel similar to what the Conductor is doing to Chioma

slim girder
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I love the current lore. Very dark.

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I like when we actually get see bad villains and I feel destiny doesn't do that too much with villains. They just say their plot and behind the scenes just go about their business.

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They don't seem to really do anything that makes us not like them.

ember storm
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Idk Eramis activating a vex portal under the pretense of killing off all the weak in her house while harvesting radiolaria for a fallen exo army is pretty fucked, all things considered

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Ghaul literally rounding up and slaughtering people like animals and just tossing their bodies into a war beast chamber as food

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Calus routinely participated in slavery and there was also the dog incident

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The list can definitely go on

ember storm
slim girder
ember storm
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Everything I said is in the campaigns

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https://youtu.be/fjLHdLoTRsM?si=BtS1O_gnwxI9DZf7

YouTube
TrueGameWalkthroughs
Destiny 2: Beyond Light - Walkthrough 15 - The Glassway

The frontier of Europa holds many lost secrets from the past, including the dark power of Stasis. You must work with the mysterious Exo Stranger to harness this new power before Eramis, the Kell of Darkness, bestows it on her Fallen forces. Grow your arsenal, master Stasis, and go beyond the light.

Full Walkthrough Playlist: https://www.youtube...

▶ Play video
slim girder
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None of this was mentioned in any of the campaigns aside from the eramis bit.
Ghaul was just said to be killing lightless guardians and then the consol only said those who remain have been executed. Nothing about feeding them to war beasts.
Calus life as emperor is only spoken about in lore tabs except for small snipits talking about how fanatical he is and that dog incident is also in a lore tab.

ember storm
#

https://youtu.be/fIg4dUEBVUM?si=oOR4ruHl_ByYDAGf

YouTube
Destiny Lore Vault
The Menagerie | The Arkborn (End): "A Fraction of the Arkborn" | Se...

Dialogue Option from Calus during the Menagerie.

**

Calus: My Councilors wrestled only a fraction of the Arkborn free of their world. Together, you and I could take them all.

**

The Menagerie - Season of Opulence Playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS2hBTtCDufTSUcZ61TCGaT1ABOCdsAit

#Destiny2 #TheMenagerie #SeasonOfOpulence #C...

▶ Play video
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“Those who fled are being hunted and those foolish enough to remain have been executed” is the report consul gave to Ghaul in their first cutscene together

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Those were his orders as Dominus

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His troops aren’t just going to freestyle their capture of the city

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The war beast room littered with corpses is literally in his personal command ship

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Remember that the “memory” version in Haunted is just the unfiltered representation of Caiatl’s memory of him from her past

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She saw him that way because he was her idol

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He was still, ultimately, a ruthless warmonger who regularly blew up entire solar systems

slim girder
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Hold on. There were corpses in there? All I saw was an empty room with sleeping warbeasts no bodies or anything but it has been many years since that time.

ember storm
slim girder
#

Ah I see it now ok then. Well tbf we don't know if those were prisoners or just food to feed the warbeasts. Just because there's bones isn't a definite sign that's what happened. Again I'm not completely denying it but it still just seems like this would have been said for such an event

ember storm
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I never said they were prisoners

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I’m saying he literally fed the corpses of civilians to his dogs

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oh yeah it’s also worth mentioning that D2 cabal suits are also made of warbeast skin

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And notably Caiatl’s legion doesn’t have that part

slim girder
#

Judging from the cutscene after excision it looks like caiatl chose to have warbeasts instead as household pets, not mindless killing machines like with the red/shadow legion that brand them and send them into a craze.

ember storm
#

They also brand their living warbeasts

slim girder
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Oh yeah i know. That's what I said. They're branded and the pack on their back I read sends them into a frenzy.

ember storm
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Anyway yeah

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Destiny villains are always pretty fucked

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Don’t have to go digging very hard to notice

tough kettle
#

oryx my beloved hyper-genocidal cartoonishly evil vengeful angry alien man

slim girder
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Idk maybe I just haven't been noticing the environment then. I was 17 back then anyway. I absolutely would have missed that type of thing lol

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Still extremely new to destiny to

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Like I started in 2015. Didn't know what god rolls were or anything. I'm shocked I even got through raids with my d1 gear.

tough kettle
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thats not extremely new

ember storm
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I mean

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Devil’s lair is also famously littered with human corpses

slim girder
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Destiny was my first mmo and fps shooter as well

ember storm
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And where’s the only place the devils would’ve found that many bodies in a Russian spaceport?

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The unlaunched cryo pods

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Which were probably still functioning too

slim girder
# tough kettle thats not extremely new

It took me a bit to really understand it though. I like D2 because I was able to start on the same ground as everyone else if that makes sense. I feel left behind in games like this if I join in like a year after release

ember storm
#

Definitive golden age skeleton left in the last array

IMG_2922.png
#

pristine piles of bones and heads on spikes in the devils’ lair

IMG_2923.png
#

These lads were fresh

slim girder
#

I mean it's said eliksni did eat people.

#

But again I do wish we saw this sort of thing rather than the aftermath of it all

empty fern
#

You also think a lot of those were guardians?

#

Since the average recent lightbearer gets picked off unless someone like Shaw Han holds the area

dim minnow
empty fern
#

Oh yea

frigid sparrow
# median ivy was there an in lore explanation as for how titan came back in season of the dee...

We know very little about any of the taken planets, really.
The first was Mars, which we got with witch queen. That had the whole deepsight phenomenon, the pyramid relic, and most importantly, savathun's arrival. The biggest answer we have here is that savathun did somehow manage to bring it back, especially considering that Mars held multiple points of interest for later use (such as the enclave relic, the warming bunker, and the spire with info on extraterrestrial travel). Either this, or the witness decided to try and give it back for... Some reason. Sway us into the dark, temptation through the power of deepsight? We don't truly know.
Titan reappeared after season of defiance, it didn't seem to be an immediate thing as of root of nightmares. Again, we don't really know what the dealio is here. It's possible the power of the pyramid ships waned following the witness's entrance into the traveler, but if that were the case, then where's mercury and io? Second thing is that it did possibly get moved during RoN and just took some time, but again, that leaves the other planets. So, my lil running theory is that Xivu directed some pyramid power away from Titan in order to launch a greater offensive against Ahsa, which also brings in our own squads to the planet, causing more war that feeds Xivu Arath. Additionally, Titan's return could be thought of as another one of Savathun's long term goals since the lucent hive went to try and resurrect oryx over there but I hate GotD and can't remember the lore all that well so that's probably whatever.
As for the remaining planets, we don't know anything. Io appears in some of the Pale Heart, but that's the total extent we have on what's going down there. We can presume Asher was successful in deterring the pyramid ships from what the pyramidion and the vex had to offer. As for Mercury, brother Vance is still a total wild card without any confirmation on his status. For all we know, he's still stuck inside the infinite forest.

#

Holy yap session

#

I didn't even realize I was going over discord text limit trollge

slim girder
trim grotto
slim girder
#

That is also the possibility. We don't have any true confirmation but that's just what I believe. Just like with the hidden brood on the moon they have a power vacuum to fill and are frenzied.

#

They wield light so xivu doesn't want anything to do with them and savathun was dead at the time.

trim grotto
# 

The Witness returned Mars to your solar system. 

The power to move worlds will soon be yours. 

The Taken King will rise again. ```
False (clearly controlled by Witness, dissection was completed and Calus had free access to Mercury anomaly as directed by Witness), false (Eris cited it as SavathĂťn's action), true (by Macrocosm), true (or rather, meant to be, per GoTD).
trim grotto
rich wyvern
#

So in final shape if I’m reading these wiki entries correctly … we still don’t really know what the traveler or the veil are and how they originated and they’re probably going to remain hand-waved and unexplained forever

#

Which is not necessarily a bad thing, I just don’t like how every possible explanation in-game has to be punctuated by a character (often ghost or crow) saying “well I guess we’ll never know”

slim girder
#

I don't deny savathun had planned for all this but just looking at the events of the dungeon it looked like a desperate attempt to fill in leadership among the lucent brood.
Also was that boss really a necromancer because to my knowledge nokris was the only necromancer and the wizard we faced was a hive guardian using a ghost and I assume light to try and resurrect oryx.
I do know we fought that same wizard way back in the game but I've forgotten exactly where.

#

WAIT

#

I'm sry I retract my statement. It literally says lucent necromancer lol

trim grotto
#

There's stuff to pull at.

jagged badge
trim grotto
#

possibly

jagged badge
#

I seem to recall him making a comment like “why might Savathûn have needed a navigator?” before Final Shape

#

AHA!

#

Robert capped off this thought by noting that Oryx’s body is below the oceans on Titan and that Savathun has plans within plans, and asks, “What use would she have for a navigator?”

frigid sparrow
#

The lucent brood's "desperation" could rather be seen by them acting early rather than them acting at all. Them acting before savathun was resurrected. I don't think savathun's own hive could slip something under her nose, especially not something as big as resurrecting oryx as a hive lightbearer, so this was likely a "right action, wrong time" deal

#

(I mean, sure she was dead, but y'know. They still wouldn't try something like that)

rich wyvern
#

A haze of cosmic energy, carnelian and jade, whirling into infinity. Fear. Hope. Then — an abrupt severance. Something lost, or — someone? It isn't clear. Dust clings to the air like motes of starlight... glittering. A new distinction between what is and what was. But a tether remains, indivisible. Light casting a shadow, and shadow defining the shape of Light.

#

Sounds to me like the beginning of individuality from its counterpart, likely The Veil

#

Which is notably different from the story presented to us with Unveiling

blazing wasp
rich wyvern
#

Ah, but I guess I could be misinterpreting it

rich wyvern
blazing wasp
#

ah

#

i mean, the way i'd interpret that makes it confirm unveiling a bit more.

#

another "flower game" starting once again, but this time with something new to it

#

this time the winnower and gardener are a "part" of it

#

hence the is and was part, as well as "tether remains"

rich wyvern
#

Exactly, the wording is just vague enough that it could be referring to the unveiling situation

#

Ugh

blazing wasp
#

it could be evidence against it, for it, or maybe its not even relevant

#

regardless its interesting

rich wyvern
#

Bungie is just gonna toy around with this without confirming anything forever. I’m calling it. I just wish they’d stop hinting there’s a greater truth we’re always about to uncover.

sleek matrix
blazing wasp
#

its exceptionally rare for bungie to outright confirm anything

sleek matrix
#

The mystery is what keeps things interesting

blazing wasp
#

the one who definitively confirmed vex werent robots? fucking ana, wanna guess when this was?

sleek matrix
#

And its also mainly background lore

#

It's not essential to the overall story

blazing wasp
#

but we already basically knew, but had no "definitive" proof that outright told it to us

#

just information that made it pretty clear

rich wyvern
sleek matrix
#

From the visions of the traveler

rich wyvern
#

I read through them and they were seemingly always retreading old information

#

@blazing wasp I can probably beat you in yomihustle

blazing wasp
#

and do you want to 1v1

#

(regardless if i get beat or not)

rich wyvern
#

Cowboy

#

Yes but not right now

blazing wasp
#

oh you a classic player

#

aight, contact me whenever you wish for a 1v1

rich wyvern
#

I refuse to learn customs

blazing wasp
rich wyvern
#

If you main a custom then the match will be meaningless to me just fyi

#

No it’s over

#

No more discussion

ember storm
#

No clue what’s happening here honestly

#

Is that a new uke

blazing wasp
#

same uke, different photograph

rich wyvern
#

Yall

#

Do not say uke

#

It’s a dirty word

blazing wasp
#

it means week in norwegian

ember storm
#

Uke has been said almost 950 times since the server was last wiped

#

I don’t see why it would be a problem now

jagged badge
empty fern
#

Uke

#

uke

ember storm
#

It rhymes with puke

empty fern
#

Duke

fringe knoll
#

Is it just me or are the Dungeon quests in this game insane? All the dungeons seem like they make Raids look like a cake walk. Are Dungeons intended to be crazy-hard? For example the Grasp of Avarice "gate puzzle" would have taken me 100 run throughs to figure out on my own if I had not had two experienced players with me ... why even make a puzzle like that?? Even then after killing an Ogre boss, I did not get "Grasp of Avarice" completed, like these Dungeons have so many boss battles and endless levels.

covert stone
#

Sir, this is a lore channel

ember storm
#

Dungeons are meant to be more bite-sized raids, essentially

#

They both have unique encounters and mechanics

#

Also yes this is a lore channel

trim grotto
#

Also the "gate puzzle" with the boss only has two mechanics, both previously used in the Dungeon. Open door, put engrams in crystal.

#

Also also, that was the first boss in the Dungeon. There are technically only two.

#

Plus yeah this is the lore channel haha

unreal pecan
#

Do we know what the universal langue in d2 is

#

Is it a matter of space tech allows us all to talk? I assumed this but iot(hive phrase for it’s how it is) is specified when it’s brought up

ember storm
#

There isn’t a universal language

#

We have seen mention of automatic translators in the past but I don’t really think it’s the case most of the time

#

If it’s just a conversation between aliens and nobody else, I doubt there’s an actual reason we’re hearing it in our own human language

#

Suspension of disbelief and all that

#

Like there’s no reason that Ecthar delivered his report to Oryx in English, and no reason he’d have responded the same way

trim grotto
trim grotto
# unreal pecan Is it a matter of space tech allows us all to talk? I assumed this but iot(hive ...

The matter of language is fairly glossed over. We don't know what language we actually speak, but the different human languages still exist.
There's a Guardian who was on Europa, insulting the Eliksni there in Canadian French.
The signs around the Tower are in a few different languages.

As Waltz said, the idea of translators does exist (shown with the Eliksni), but for the rest, it's glossed over.

#

That said, aiat is a phrase with its own meaning. Your description simplifies and explains it, but aiat is still a phrase in their own language.

#

You could argue our Ghosts or another form of paracausal influence is involved, but that's pretty much just assuming.

#

And given that we hear Eliksni and Cabal and Hive speak phrases in their own languages that we can't understand, it isn't a supported assumption, either.

unreal pecan
unreal pecan
unreal pecan
#

That isn’t basic English or in a book

trim grotto
unreal pecan
#

Our ghost definitely understands how exos work

#

Maybe not universally all ghosts but ours definitely does

#

It understands the darkness and how it interacts with the mind

#

Which we understand exos are a connection between

trim grotto
#

I don't mean the Darkness via Alkahest, I mean the actual tech itself. The inner workings are notoriously complex even for Ghosts.

#

I've got to go though since I'm still at work so I can't respond further

unreal pecan
#

No worries

#

@ me when we can finish

ember storm
#

The text on cabal terminals is their language

#

A canon comic displays it as their language in speech

#

Cabal units have idle voice clips in it, as well as bosses like Ghaul himself

#

There is no “universal language”

#

Main characters and antagonists speaking our language are not the norm by any means

#

We can assume they either specifically picked up our own language to make things easier/more personal (Caiatl references numerous times that her people “have words” in their own language indicating she’s not speaking it)

#

Or that there’s just some kind of translation audio thing letting us understand it automatically (there is zero reason a private conversation between two hive gods would ever be in a human language)

#

Or the third (and more disappointing) option is that it’s literally just not meant to be thought about because stuff just needs to happen for the narrative

empty fern
#

Too deep CATGRIN

frigid sparrow
dim minnow
#

-_-

short badge
#

It’s a genuine question

#

Could’ve just answered it

eager trout
fast tapir
#

i suppose i will never know

dim minnow
analog torrent
#

Probably something about Exos or Mara Sov and rule 3

analog torrent
fast tapir
#

honestly it was pretty close!

analog torrent
#

Yknow what
Genuine question, if only he'd bothered to read rule 3 CATGRIN

dim minnow
#

maybe he could have worded it better

#

like maybe "What is the status of Drifter and Eris' relationship?"

analog torrent
#

TW: H#ndh#lding

||Eris reaches out and takes Drifter's hand; calloused fingers brush across his knuckles. He tenses for a moment, then relaxes at the touch. She deftly plucks the coin away from his palm, regarding it with a mild curiosity. He feels lighter without it.||
They've progressed to h#ndh#lding

dim minnow
#

RULE 3

analog torrent
#

Sorry boohoo

#

Put a spoiler tag on it

dim minnow
#

don't forget the bottom part

#

even censoring it isn't enough

fast tapir
#

oh thats not a good message

rich wyvern
#

unrelated

#

mixed feelings on sundaresh's character direction in lightfall

#

i assume they put her to rest and haven't discussed her in final shape at all

#

but basically she's developed into this character that can pretty much go either way in terms of being a good person and being a complete evil monster

trim grotto
rich wyvern
#

oh great

#

is she in echoes

#

i haven't done that yet

trim grotto
#

she is... related to it

rich wyvern
#

christ

sick yew
#

Lmfao

rich wyvern
#

brb let me spoil myself

sick yew
#

Mans not ready for Echoes

rich wyvern
#

shes one of my faves

#

ah okay

#

so

#

out of all the incarnations of her

#

the only ones that actually interact with us in any way

#

are all evil as fuck

#

and the good ones are like
the little data ones that escaped into the vex network

trim grotto
#

Well, we've only interacted with one version of her.

#

Out of hundreds.

sick yew
#

Well you could argue two

rich wyvern
#

oh right, sorry

sick yew
#

If we think back to Splicer

trim grotto
#

I suppose so, true

#

Lakshmi sort of counts

sick yew
#

Thats what I mean argue

trim grotto
#

But she was also influenced directly by Savvel Thoon

rich wyvern
#

what i mean is the ones that are relevant to our stories

#

such as neomuna, clovis

sick yew
#

Thats all the same Maya

#

The one that lived during the golden age

#

Again depending on your viewpoint Lakshmi aswell

rich wyvern
#

the clovis maya actually was another simulated maya

trim grotto
#

The one from Clovis's logbook was a Vex simulation yeah

#

in big man's very bones

rich wyvern
#

she was tortured until she became insane

#

and then turned into an agent

sick yew
#

Sounds like Clovis

rich wyvern
#

no the vex did it

#

clovis was actually a victim for once

sick yew
#

Impossible

rich wyvern
#

read mysterious logbook it's very juicy

trim grotto
#

dripping with juice

sick yew
trim grotto
#

Anyway until Maya Sundaresh started obsessing over the Veil - which spoke back to her in her own voice - she wasn't such a... questionable person
There are versions of her living peaceful lives with their Chiomas and research team

trim grotto
#

There are two halves, I can provide them if you wish

sick yew
#

Or did the Veil just like do that

trim grotto
#

Actually it seems to have been the Veil itself

rich wyvern
#

so there's

  1. original maya. goes to neomuna. human body dies. turns evil due to veil.
  2. original maya's exo that appears in echoes, retaining her memories. evil.
  3. lakshmi-2, another exo of maya somehow, for some reason. also evil. seemingly no memories of being maya.
  4. 227 perfectly simulated copies of maya sundaresh, existing as data in the vex network. some of these have died. some of these are just chilling.
  5. one of the 227 is turned into an evil double agent and is sent to infiltrate clovis bray.
trim grotto
# sick yew Whens that from

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tmu9sjYV7c6X1NhRQmOxkj_o7IJ4ZRcifbm49MNr12s/edit?usp=sharing
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/clovis-brays-logbook-missing-pages
Parts 1 and 2 respectively
The Google doc is the best transcription I know of bar actual page scans

Google Docs
Clovis Bray's Logbook Transcript

Clovis Bray's Logbook Transcript Transcribed by fullheartz/ramencoupon @ Tumblr and u/liimewiire (riflesniper/gayarcstrider @ Tumblr) retrieved from https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/jeloaj/beyond_light_collectors_edition_arrived/ NOTE: The original logbook contained many handwrit...

Clovis Bray's Logbook — Missing Pages — Record — Ishtar Collective

NOTE-FORGE STAR
In an effort to keep them engaged with their new bodies and stave off the dissociative rejection that killed Mr. Zhuk, I have assigned my exos to scout through the gateway. The Vex statite has a surface area larger than Earth, so we have plenty of exploring to do. I cannot believe that I actually find it tiring, but the sheer sca...

#

And no it isn't on Ishtar

rich wyvern
#

just realized veil is an anagram of evil. lmfao

#

if you add an O (traveler) to the letters that make up veil: you get Olive

trim grotto
# rich wyvern so there's 1. original maya. goes to neomuna. human body dies. turns evil due to...

Original Maya appears to have entered the Veil and through that vooped into the Vex Net, since the Veil is the core of the CloudArk, which is in turn being sieged by the Vex (and sort of part of the network)
Original Maya uses the Exo as a convenient way to reachieve form

Lakshmi-2 doesn't remember being Maya or Neptune, but she is an Exo, so that tracks. Her... shall we say, inconsiderate nature, was born of trauma and heavily exacerbated by SavathĂťn's Endless Night and direct hypnotic influence. Not free of all guilt, but not entirely on her, either.

The next two points about the 227? Yeah, that's about right.

rich wyvern
#

Original Maya appears to have entered the Veil and through that vooped into the Vex Net, since the Veil is the core of the CloudArk, which is in turn being sieged by the Vex (and sort of part of the network)

#

this sounds insane and bogus

#

but i can't come up with any other explanation considering that is what it looks like she did when she died in neomuna

#

but i just dont even get how that works

#

entering the veil seems like you'd lose your individuality entirely

#

yet she hopped from there to the cloud ark, and then somehow jumped into the vex network?

trim grotto
#

https://youtu.be/Gz9QfQ6eGFA?si=_ur4wFBDiN9o88WS

YouTube
Destiny Lore Vault
A Rising Chorus | Osiris: "In a Final Act, Chioma Entered the Netwo...

Osiris summarizes his research on Neomuna's Veil containment facility.

**

Osiris: The research on Neomuna's Veil facility is complete. As the report is... [grunts] lengthy, I will summarize.

Maya Sundaresh and Chioma Esi were a married pair of researchers in the Golden Age. Their work often touched on the Vex. They found an object on Neptun...

▶ Play video
slim girder
#

Idk just going off speculation the top of the veil looks like something that leads to something just as much as the bottom looks like the connection point of where it might have been attached to the traveler.

rich wyvern
trim grotto
trim grotto
#

A fairly solid one, to be fair.

rich wyvern
#

I have a love-hate relationship with the practice, it's just silly how predictable it is

trim grotto
rich wyvern
#

I much prefer it to having Ghost be our narrator for every single plot point

#

So maya and chioma didn't enter the veil

#

but their aged-up originals ended up in the vex network alongside the simulations

#

and osiris opens up the possibility that all mayas have been purged from the network, but also the possibility that only the original has

trim grotto
#

He's essentially just saying we don't know which it is. We've reason to believe it was the original, but I haven't quite caught up with Act 3 yet.

rich wyvern
trim grotto
#

Look, I'm not here to judge the lore, just learn it and teach it.

rich wyvern
#

okay but tell me what you think

#

it's equivalent to keeping the traveler in a basement and using it as a battery

and it also means that any plot that moves the veil somewhere else has the danger of like killing every neomunan because they're all uploaded to the cloudark right now? right?

dim minnow
trim grotto
#

"Powers" Neomuna isn't quite accurate. The Veil is the core of the CloudArk, which much of their data structure is built upon, but the actual power comes from elsewhere.

The Veil has very strong connections to the Darkness aspect of the mind. Strand is actually a good representation of that. Figuring out how to manipulate that force is something humanity have done before. Golden Age Humanity had paracausal relics, even stations that harnessed paracasual energy.

And, no. They're not uploaded. It's basically VR.

#

Like, they're uploaded, but not in a "you're out of body completely" manner.

rich wyvern
#

They're not uploaded. It's basically VR

#

oh okay

#

so they're in like matrix pods

trim grotto
#

Essentially yeah

rich wyvern
#

and the cloudark isn't their entire infrastructure

#

?

rich wyvern
trim grotto
dim minnow
# rich wyvern wait she does wHAT?

you see, she captures several instances of Chioma Esi and questions them. If the Chioma she captures shows any deviation from what she believes the "true" Chioma is, then she kills them

#

also she puts them in an exo body

rich wyvern
#

christ

#

why did they make this woman so psycho after she had such a sweet love story in D1

dim minnow
#

it's crazy how she and Clovis have opposite arcs

#

Clovis at the "end" of his life actually realizes he wasn't very good and hopes that Clovis-1 will reconcile with his family

trim grotto
#

I have said it before, but it is interesting how Maya went from funny Vex researcher who got simulated, to terrifying nightmare creature who lives in your brain/mad scientist who doesn't value a human life/paracausal entity looking to reshape Sol.

I wonder what this will all mean for the peaceful Maya's living, hiding, in the depths of the network.

dim minnow
#

meanwhile Maya starts regressing

#

it does seem like several Maya's were being captured as well

#

though we only know what the Conductor was doing to the Chiomas

rich wyvern
#

since APPARENTLY this woman is always one bad day away from being a serial killer

trim grotto
#

She doesn't seem particularly interested in weaponising them. Given what the Conductor did to Saint... and the Chiomas... she's rather focused on only having the "true" versions.

rich wyvern
#

wait-- WHAT did she do to saint

#

and we don't kill her in echoes??!

dim minnow
#

I think her proximity to the Vex is what's affecting her mind

rich wyvern
#

omfg

dim minnow
trim grotto
rich wyvern
#

okay well this is crazy, i need to play this tomorrow

dim minnow
#

we still got one more week

rich wyvern
#

thanks yall and goodnight

dim minnow
#

Tuesday should bring the finale

trim grotto
dim minnow
#

again I really hope Bungie lets us do a finisher on her

#

I want to hit her with a chair

rich wyvern
#

(she's one of my favorite characters)

trim grotto
dim minnow
#

the Vex want one sole reality

#

the reality where everything is Vex

#

they will reject any reality that deviates from this in the slightest

#

like how the Conductor is rejecting any Chioma Esi she sees as imperfect

#

I think my favorite vex quote relates to this actually

#

really should be pinned since it's very useful in understanding how Vex think

candid inletBOT
#
dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion


The Vex are, so far, simply curious. But Vex curiosity always leads to Vex transformation [...]

The Vex will not rest until every star has been crushed into a black hole and every newborn cosmos filled with more Vex. And in the unending array of their enslaved cosmos, they will simulate all possible pasts, and fill those with Vex, so that all things that have ever lived or might ever live will experience infestation and consumption and torment by the silica nightmare.

And in those devoured simulations, the simulated Vex will use our flesh as hosts for yet more nested universes full of yet more nested copies of us eternally tormented by yet more Vex.

An infinite regression of pain and madness inflicted upon every possible version of us in every possible world. Not because they hate us, or fear us, or want to punish us. But because they are indifferent and curious, and they will do every possible thing to us in every possible way.```
Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from ¡
dim minnow
next bobcat
#

@dim minnow do you have the link to the Cryptarchy discord?

dim minnow
#

Mael would though

trim grotto
#

that'd be me
hi
i'm one of the admins

next bobcat
#

Oh nice

dim minnow
next bobcat
dim minnow
#

I still don't even really know why I haven't joined it yet

next bobcat
#

Probably since I haven’t been here for a while

trim grotto
#

that emote i posted above should have a link to it since it's discoverable

next bobcat
#

Yeah nice

brittle dirge
#

What I really love about aksis and roi’s story is that it is entirely caused by our actions in og d1

#

We kill Riksis, Devil Archon

#

This causes a domino effect where aksis, archon prime rises to power and causes the Devil splicers

#

It’s so perfect to me that one of the first bosses we fight causes one of the last

trim grotto
# unreal pecan @ me when we can finish

Built for a long-forgotten struggle, Exos are self-aware war machines so advanced that nothing short of a Ghost can understand their inner functions. They remain ciphers, even to themselves: their origins and purpose lost to time.
On one hand, Ghosts are the things that have understood how Exo work the best for many years. They resurrect them after all, and both are machines. However...


"Nnnr?"

The drone spun uneasily. "You're an Exo. Exos were made in the Golden Age, with proprietary tech. I can't hack into your head to fix the damage, but I can rebuild you as you were. If you shot yourself, I could work quicker."```
Even Ghosts have limits when it comes to Exo.
trim grotto
#

We even have their numbers.

#

For example
"Trau'ug. In your tongue its meaning is something akin to 'less talk, more action.'"

#

Ulurant is definitely one of the languages we know little about though

slim girder
ember storm
#

That’s not a language that’s just them having mandibles

#

Also Variks specifically puts on a facade of not properly understanding human language to appear weaker

#

The chattering is literally just a thing he does

slim girder
#

This is from the faith keeper rocket lore tab.

ember storm
#

Clicking would count as verbal communication

sick yew
#

Variks just likes to troll people

#

Thats why he does his shit

ember storm
#

And I’m pretty sure that point is referencing the Eliksni that Amanda accidentally got lynched by sarcastically telling it that a middle finger is a sign of peace

slim girder
#

Or was it a different one?

ember storm
#

I don’t know it’s been a while

#

Point is, verbal communication is sounds

#

That includes sighing, grunts, and mandible clicking

heady monolith
ember storm
#

Eliksni don’t do that as part of their language

#

It’s literally just a noise Variks makes to seem like a weird little bug man who isn’t much of a threat

sick yew
ember storm
#

Additionally I think it’s just a reference to the fact Dee Bradley Baker is also admiral trench

blazing wasp
unreal pecan
#

I belive the first statement tho is from the exo lore card

ember storm
#

I mean I’m sure if given the proper materials a ghost could learn how exo functions work, but they need to actually learn it first

unreal pecan
#

Which it would have not only knowledge from Clovis, the golden age, but also the ghost understands the darkness

jagged badge
#

Maelstronnar is talking about Ghosts at large

#

It’s also irrelevant about understanding the darkness

#

As Mael said, this is about the tech

jagged badge
#

Oops I think that was a ping

ember storm
#

Keep going he deserves it

trim grotto
# unreal pecan Nothing short of a ghost, means you need the Intelligence of a ghost. Also what ...

Yes, it was in support of your original point, albeit with the caveat I sent afterwards, from Season of the Worthy.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/2-the-beginning-part-ii#book-the-liar

2. THE BEGINNING, PART II — Entry — Ishtar Collective

—
Felwinter and the drone traveled for three days. They saw nothing and no one. On the third night, still walking, Felwinter looked up and saw meteors like streamers against the night sky. He was struck by the sight, and then by one meteor in particular—blazing, orange—getting bigger and bigger in the sky.
"Run," the drone said.
The first meteo...

#

Also yeah I was talking about Ghosts in general

ember storm
#

What about ghosts in off topic

trim grotto
# trim grotto Yes, it was in support of your original point, albeit with the caveat I sent aft...

To elaborate:
The initial entry is indeed from the Exo lore card. It is worth mentioning the age of that card, of course.
The entry from The Liar is about Felwinter and his creatively named Ghost, Felspring. Despite Ghosts being described as able to understand inner functions, as I was saying in support of your point, @unreal pecan - I do know what "nothing short of" means, thank you - this entry, THE BEGINNING from The Liar shows that Ghosts have limits when it comes to understanding, accessing, and repairing Exo bodies.

#

While we now know about Alkahest, this doesn't directly affect the actual technology an Exo is built with. While the mind was unstable prior to the introduction of Alkahest, Exo were nonetheless physically and technologically functional.

molten radish
#

Lore experts, what is the significance of tarabotl existing in Destiny's Solar System? My gut keeps telling me we will visit it's solar system soon with Frontiers upon the game's horizon.

trim grotto
#

Well I haven't seen the post yet but Torobatl was in a totally different system
The only reason I could think of as to why it'd be here, given that I haven't got any context, is that Xivu Arath's Brood turned it into a massive War Moon. Or War Planet, in this case.

#

A hollowed out celestial body full of Hive.

unreal pecan
trim grotto
#

I'll need to find time to read the post before I can say anything with confidence though

unreal pecan
#

The darkness powers these

trim grotto
#

Alkahest is their current power source, but it wasn't always such. The technology for the Exobodies existed prior to that discovery.

jagged badge
#

The sources Mael has shown you?

ember storm
#

Darkness doesn’t power exos

unreal pecan
#

I’m reading mark

molten radish
#

Could the "behemouth" Frontiers expansion be any significance tied to Xivu's War territory? Or would that subside once Episode 3 is over?

ember storm
#

It’s a special substance created through radiolaria’s exposure to darkness

unreal pecan
#

Just responding to everyone

unreal pecan
#

I was specifically saying our ghost

unreal pecan
trim grotto
#

Alright I've got 15 mins

trim grotto
# unreal pecan …

While our Ghost has more experience with Darkness than most, there's little suggesting he knows more about the inner workings of Exo technologies or data outside of that substance.
Felspring's issue with Felwinter's damage, for example, wasn't related to Alkahest - it was related to the corrupted data and damaged hardware.

#

Thus, I spoke about Ghosts in general.

ember storm
#

So I’m assuming the theory is that ghost is familiar with darkness = ghost can fix exos better?

#

Is that the logic?

trim grotto
#

Also I will support Waltz's earlier point - Alkahest is Radiolaria that has been transformed by the effects of Darkness (in the form of Clarity), and there is a lingering trace of that Darkness, but it is not itself Darkness.

heady halo
trim grotto
ember storm
#

If it’s a side character in clone wars there’s a good chance it’s also him

jagged badge
#

And other creatures in that franchise

#

Plus Councilman Tarrlok

trim grotto
#

Appa is councilman Tarrlok?

#

Must br a very good disguise

ember storm
#

Don’t forget his standout role

#

It outshines all of them

trim grotto
ember storm
#

I was going to say Perry the platypus

frozen pawn
#

how is ep1 story guys ?..? are we getting hot Vex mommy waifu ?

ember storm
#

We should really put something in the rules about reading the room

trim grotto
frozen pawn
tough kettle
empty fern
#

No

#

We are getting
Splicer 2

covert stone
#

I expected a Vex-focused story but in reality we got yuri vs yaoi

#

Loving it though

analog torrent
#

Chioma Esi: "Think big picture!" What about your survival? What about your heart? My heart? [sighs tearfully] I can't keep doing this. I can't. I can't!

Osiris: I... again, I see a shadow of myself in Maya Sundaresh. The man I could have become had I let obsession continue to rule me. I'm worried what the next recording will reveal.

It hath been fortold

rich wyvern
#

Cayde appreciation moment

#

I love how he has this secret side to him that is an extremely meticulous planner with a ton of foresight

#

He left like what, 15, 20 pre-recorded messages in stashes before forsaken?

#

Then he pulls the same thing again in final shape. He completely predicts both his deaths and prepares speeches. Lol

#

I also loved all the lines where he is nudging crow to be a better hunter and leader. Telling him what to prioritize

sick yew
#

I wouldnt exactly call it foresight more just contingencies

#

Bro had no clue who'd get the better of him

#

Did he even have a message for Uldren recorded?

trim grotto
# sick yew Did he even have a message for Uldren recorded?

Cayde: Petra… if you're listening to this… you killed me. Maybe the Sovs, in all their mysterious wisdom, decided they were sick of me? If the Queen ordered the hit, I guess I understand. You're a real glutton for chivalry. But if it was Uldren, I'm pissed. Just thinking about that peacock gives me a headache. But I'm betting my death was another case of your famous collateral damage. 'Cause you're a real do-gooder. Seriously, its annoying - but good deeds never go unpunished when you're around. You just… You got a blast radius P.V. Well, it was… fun while it lasted. Oh, and, uh, tell "Paladin Oran": If the sun over Nessus escapes nebula cycle, evac labor after dawn, under solstice. You got that, P.V.?

#

Not exactly

sick yew
#

Oh wait I remember now

#

But still if you write enough names surely one of them will be true

#

Honestly bro can be glad some random Cabal didnt get the better of him

slim girder
#

And I have a theory Enceladus is also where the drifter encountered those darkness creatures which I also think are what the awoken know as the aphelion

trim grotto
jagged badge
#

Plus it was a planet, not a moon

#

Especially not a moon so close to relatively charted territory

slim girder
#

Idk something about the descriptions of the aphelion and the creatures drifter encountered makes me think they were one and the same given how supposedly terrifying and lethal they were. Idk it's just my theory really based on what I've read.

slim girder
#

I think I'm getting the 2 mixed up just because they're both described as icy wastelands sort of.

jagged badge
slim girder
#

Good to know

jagged badge
#

I want enchiladas now

#

🤤

slim girder
#

That actually sounds goated

#

Love enchiladas

#

Instead I'm eating a bag of kit kats lol

sick yew
#

Actually on the topic of Caydes ramblings

#

Why did he dedicate one to "the minds of the deep stone crypt"

#

Is this just sorta outdated lore or am I missing something
Because it should just be Clovis which idk if Cayde would know is still alive as the exo head

#

And why would he come for him

analog torrent
#

I'm in a science fiction inquiry course and we're talking about how to define science fiction. Typing this in a lecture rn. From Suvin's formalist lens of "cognitive estrangement," what makes Destiny, in the modern day, sci-fi?

The Golden Age is very sci-fi, and as an extension of that, Exos are very sci-fi. Cognitive, because exploring the future of cybernetics and taking that to an extreme (to a lesser extent: nanites, gene splicing/editing, space exploration), is something that makes sense and is explored in real life. Other rational ideas that are prominent: utilitarianism, monopolies, and collaboration, or the lack thereof. Estrangement, because a massive alien ball came out of nowhere and spiked our development.

The Dark Age is medieval fantasy, both in setting and in narrative. They have guns, transponders, and a couple futuristic vehicles, but the stories are about survival and tyrannical, magic warlords with fiefdoms. For all that it matters to them, Eliksni are monsters that happen to be extraterrestrial.

The City Age and Destiny era are where it gets murky, with the early City Age being distinctly fantasy and becoming more sci-fi as they discover more about their world. There's the cognitive (politics, collaboration, Golden Age tech, relationships with those we perceive as aliens), and then we've got space wizardry, Hive Gods, and fundamental forces of the universe that, as far as we know, don't exist in our universe.

Examining Destiny's genre from a cultural historian angle is less relevant because cultural history is largely about perception and as we all know, Destiny players don't read and therefore cannot perceive it as a union between mechanism/technology and culture CATGRIN

ember storm
#

What

analog torrent
# sick yew Why did he dedicate one to "the minds of the deep stone crypt"

This one's for the minds behind the Deep Stone Crypt. You think just 'cause you made me, you can unmake me? Hey, I understand. I were you, I wouldn't want people knowing what I did either. Guess you better hope I didn't tell anyone about the crypt. Or about the, uh, what was it? Oh yeah… Long Slow Whisper. 'Cause if I did, that would be real bad for you, huh? I may be dead, but I guarantee you ain't heard the last of me.

This was pre-BL so as far as Cayde knows, Clovis is dead. Cayde-0 was massively in debt to BrayTech after fucking up one of his mercenary contracts, and Cayde-6 knows this, because Cayde-0 wrote about it in a journal (Cayde's Treasure Island Book).

Maybe he's still pissed he was pressured into becoming an Exo. Also, he worked security for BrayTech as an Exo, so he might know something he shouldn't. I'm not sure how much of Exo development was public info, but if any of the Exo devs somehow survived/someone's trying to restart Exo production, Cayde's info would be relevant. I think he's just covering his bases. Could also be outdated lore idk

sick yew
#

I'm a bit confused why he kept that a secret considering it was kinda sorta super important at least when he was still alive

analog torrent
# sick yew The long slow whisper I assume is just Clarity aka the statue

Not sure (still need to read BL CE and Clovis’s logbook) but I think the long slow whisper is Clarity’s/the Darkness’s influence on Exos and it manifests as the Exo dreams about killing people you used to know and the tower in the distance. Exos don’t talk about the part of the dream where they know the people they’re killing, ever.

sage lion
#

In all fairness the DSC has areas we haven't seen but also with the Bray Station having come down on top of it it would be hard enough to try and realistically say something survived the impact.

I would prefer to see more integrated with the A.I in the pillory bunker, They could expand on the pods it sent out when it tried to save what it could from the black fleet.

And what of the colony ships that made it out of sol, Surely they could expand on maybe a ship that survived

analog torrent
#

You guys recommend the TLW/Thorn Byf documentary? The art is peak as fuck but it's 1.5 hours long and I've read most of the Shin, Jaren, and Dredgen Yor/Rezyl lore

ember storm
#

Unironic question, do you find yourself susceptible to propaganda

#

Because 1 it’s byf and 2 you might become a shin stan and I don’t want that to happen to you

analog torrent
#

1: I know his fans don't read CATGRIN was jus wondering if it was worth watching for someone who had already read the lore because the art is seriously amazing
2: I'm a Rezyl Azzir stan

#

What was it he said once to one of the newly risen? The Light shines brightest in those it consumes? Oh, how he felt consumed.
He just like me fr

ember storm
#

If there’s like a link in the description to the raw art I’d rather just look at that

#

I don’t want to listen to byf narration while he weirdly puppets a static image for forty minutes

lost abyss
trim grotto
#

The Morningstar is the name, by the by

dim minnow
#

Add transmat effects into the list of ingame things that are canon

#

And also that Osiris uses the "Reflection Effects" specifically

frigid sparrow
worldly river
#

What do you guys think of the Dynasty lore book? Is it perhaps the origin of the Echo of Command?

somber marlin
#

What classes does the drifter know besides stasis?

heady monolith
somber marlin
#

woah

heady monolith
#

unlike gameplay, classes arent something a guardian is hardlocked to

#

in theory, a titan could imbue his burning maul with radiance and slam it into the ground to create a pseudo well of radiance

#

shaw han once made his golden gun shoot out rounds that imbued other guardians with radiant light

frigid sparrow
heady monolith
#

shaw han once again showing hes a fraud

trim grotto
#

He is, as junie said, classless. Neither Hunter, nor Warlock, nor Titan. He does not often practice his Light, either.

somber marlin
somber marlin
heady monolith
somber marlin
#

XD

trim grotto
#

Historically he's distrusted Ghosts and Lightbearers alike

analog torrent
#

Mfw most people will never know about how sweet Chioma and Maya's relationship was at first

#

Most of it is in War Machines/Grimoire 3
Aspect: Volitive has a section on them
Then around Lightfall it goes downhill real fast

#

What loretab is this? I know it’s from chosen

IMG_8409.jpg IMG_8406.png
ember storm
#

Sure it’s chosen?

analog torrent
#

No CATGRIN

trim grotto
# analog torrent What loretab is this? I know it’s from chosen

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/multimach-ccx

Multimach CCX — Entry — Ishtar Collective

Friends are as companions on a journey who ought to aid each other to persevere.
—
Lord Saladin sat at a small table, examining a holographic display of Cabal troop movements throughout the system. He was crammed into the corner of his once-spacious quarters, made small over the years by shelves full of ancient weaponry, trophies, dated tactical...

analog torrent
#

Thanks

trim grotto
# 

"Thought you might be hungry." Ikora held up the sack. "Is Thai okay?"

Lord Saladin ushered her in. "It's all the same to me."

The Warlock breezed into the room and set about clearing space for the food. Though she said nothing, Saladin could sense her alarm at the state of his dwelling. Her eyes lingered in the mildewed corners. Her nostrils flared at the sour smell of his armor's fur lining. Her fingers traced visible lines in the dust.```
#

Sure paints a picture

analog torrent
trim grotto
#

That is the greatest thing I've seen in weeks

#

@sick yew this needs to be pinned or something

empty fern
#

Lmao

fast tapir
#

oh thats great

unreal pecan
#

Anyone know what he’s referring to? I know oryx teleports to the deep after the fight but I don’t know of any rules he changes in his realm

IMG_6974.png
ember storm
#

Yeah he didn’t change any rules

#

While any ascendant hive could ordinarily cheat a normal death in the normal plane via their throne world, oryx inverted his own into the physical confines of the Dreadnaught

#

It was a strategy that was a double edged sword, since he was able to move his throne world anywhere at his leisure, but it also meant that any death at all would be his last

#

The entire point of him running at the end of the the campaign mission is him escaping because he was about to die

#

He underestimated us and was trying to be slow and spiteful, rather than using all his available power to its fullest extent

#

Him getting big and getting all those bombs in Kingsfall is him putting all his chips on the table

unreal pecan
unreal pecan
trim grotto
slim girder
#

It was only until we actually brought him down in base form did he take us seriously but even still he laughed when disappearing.

empty fern
#

Wasn’t there the decommissioned tithing system as well?

unreal pecan
#

But stronger people tithe more to you

#

And we killed some of the strongest

dim minnow
#

I wouldn't say he was holding back, more like he was overreliant on a system that we were able to systematically dismantle

unreal pecan
unreal pecan
dim minnow
#

and keep in mind that there was a lot of stuff working against Oryx

#

Savathun, Riven, etc.

unreal pecan
dim minnow
#

he came to Sol because we killed Crota

slim girder
dim minnow
#

and he wanted revenge

unreal pecan
#

That isn’t the full truth

dim minnow
#

no, that is the full truth

#

it's how it was presented in the story back then

unreal pecan
#

By killing crota we proved our existence and showed we are the strongest, oryx by his nature has to defeat us

dim minnow
#

Savathun says it herself when speaking with Xivu Arath in a recording

unreal pecan
#

Also oryx was starving

dim minnow
#

because we killed Crota

slim girder
#

We killed crota which let out a scream apparently causing oryx to seek revenge. Our first encounter he even says "You took my son"

dim minnow
#

Crota was one of the biggest contributors to Oryx's tribute

unreal pecan
#

Yes, when he says we took his son. He is in reference to multiple factors. Oryx doesn’t see anything wrong with someone dying

slim girder
#

Yes he does. In his own way oryx loved his son.

unreal pecan
#

When he says you took my son he means
You proved you’re strong and you’ve cut part of my tithe

#

Yea loving someone doesn’t mean oryx isn’t ok with them dying

#

It’s said multiple times by oryx himself death is love
Reaching the final shape is all there is

#

Crotas death not only bring the universe closer to the final shape but also shows love

trim grotto
slim girder
#

It wasn't a worthy death]

dim minnow
#

and Savathun said Oryx was seeking revenge which was hypocritical

slim girder
#

Crota basically died to heretics

unreal pecan
#

Imbaru justifies everything as a lie

dim minnow
slim girder
#

Not everything is a lie from her though.

dim minnow
#

and this was not her speaking to us

trim grotto
unreal pecan
dim minnow
#

it was from her speaking to Xivu Arath

trim grotto
slim girder
#

It's not like every single thing she says is false.

unreal pecan
slim girder
#

No we don't

trim grotto
#

SavathĂťn believes that the Sword Logic, and the way that the majority of the Hive follow it, is hypocritical in nature. This simply shows her belief, what she views.

unreal pecan
trim grotto
unreal pecan
slim girder
#

That wasn't even a thing back then

unreal pecan
#

If savathuns statement supports imbaru then we must assume the intent is to support imbaru

trim grotto
empty fern
#

WHO ping

trim grotto
#

tee hee

empty fern
#

It’s 4am yall, nerds sleep too

dim minnow
#

yeah

#

1am

#

I should go

unreal pecan
#

P1:P>Q
P2:P=R
P3:R>Q
C:Q
P:savathun makes a statement
Q:It supports Imbaru
R:Oryx is a hypocrite

:Then
=:these statements are the same

slim girder
#

5:30pm here lol

unreal pecan
slim girder
#

Savathun is a liar absolutely. But to further her goals she can't always lie.

#

That'd just be dumb

unreal pecan
#

I agree she has made true statements apart of imbaru is for you to never know if she’s telling the truth or a lie

#

But because it’s always a 50/50 without evidence we have to deny the statement and ignore until we can prove which side is the correct one

#

And it’s far more likely that
1.Xivu would naturally Believe Savathun when the statement is made
2.Savathun must Obey her nature
3.If there is a chance to support her nature she will take it
4.Savathun will betray loved ones to support her nature

slim girder
#

She willing or not showed us the wish that got us into the pale heart. If she had lied we'd all be dead by now

unreal pecan
#

That’s post worm removal she no longer has to always obey her nature

slim girder
trim grotto
#

Alright. Let's approach this another way.


SavathĂťn: Revenge? For what? The dead deserved to die. That's your own logic. Oryx was a hypocrite, and so are you. ```
The direct quote in question.
*Xivu* is the one saying Oryx was taking revenge, and that she was also taking revenge.
unreal pecan
#

Hence they always feel that suffering

#

Because of a gift

unreal pecan
#

You can add he misses his son but I do not agree that this is a major motivation like the others

#

It’s a sub reason like the fact he was getting hungry

trim grotto
#

At this point, it's mostly a debate of "how much did Oryx love Crota" and a battle of semantics on the side
Neither of which I'm particularly interested in following further

unreal pecan
#

Yea no worries

#

🫂I’d never force you to engage Mael

trim grotto
#

Haha all good buddy

slim girder
#

On another note i'm convinced the choral vex chose to be annoying when given single thoughts. These jerks love the teleport button

ornate pike
#

Bungie has cooked so hard with making Maya the figure head of the vex
I hope she sticks around for the long term
(God please don't make me look stupid I still have to do the epilouge)

sick yew
sick yew
#

But I take every opportunity possible to bring the vex more into the main narrative

unreal pecan
#

I wanna know the details like
Maya 26 found X thought pattern and because the alterations she had from the vex program she was changed in X way

ornate pike
unreal pecan
#

OHHH

#

THATS SMART

blazing wasp
#

(msund12 was also active in some final shape missions taking place before excision)

ember storm
#

Also like seven years ago

#

I think it’d be funnier if the 12 was just like her birthday or something

covert stone
#

waiting until a random lore tab 7 months from now reveals Maya's birthday is in December hence the 12

dim minnow
#

It really seems like the Conductor is our Maya who messed with the Veil on Neomuna

slim girder
#

I think the 12 might actually be her anniversary with chioma maybe.

#

Obviously it could just be a random number but I feel like there has to be a meaning to it that we find at some point.

ember storm
#

“How long have you been together?”
“Twelve”

fast tapir
#

hmm yes

dim minnow
#

hmmm

#

you know, tht final entry to the Qugu lore book has me thinking

#

so the Qugu were waging a final assault on Savathun's fleet only for the Dreadnaught to pull up and start attacking Savathun

#

of course, the Hive god siblings warred against each other constantly, but was that really it?

#

do you guys reckon there's some ulterior motive to Oryx attacking Savathun there?

#

her fleet was in possession of a Pyramid ship

slim girder
low gyro
dim minnow
low gyro
#

ah ok. i was wondering where i first heard the name

dim minnow
#

which is how some of us immediately knew Msund12 was her

ornate pike
#

Ngl I feel like people who were expecting us to kill maya are kinda delusional

#

Like
She JUST came into the fray
The vex JUST got a chance to be interesting again
clearly she wasn't gonna show up, be cool, die, and then the vex are jsut back to being boring

#

Honestly my complaints can kinda be found here-
I feel like they introduced a personality and lore about the vex now being independent instead of far out reaching changes like this:

image.png
#

Honestly hope that Neomuna one ends up happening
Once Lysander becomes an active threat in the game I hope we get to fight mechs controlled by humans, and some of them are neomuna citizens turning traitor on us

trim grotto
slim elk
#

I think a lot of this is just simply how.. lackluster the Episode feels

#

We see genuine changes to Nessus environments in the activities.. but aren't reflected in patrol

little mist
#

I can't hear Zavala without getting sad.

#

His character just doesn't even exist anymore, new VA regardless. Zavala just sounds like pure emotion now. I try to replay those voice lines in my head with Lance's voice and they don't work.

#

Keith David is a wonderful man and a wonderful VA but he doesn't quite fit this imo

jagged badge
#

Eh

little mist
#

Should have had Zavala go out heroicly, in honor of Lance

jagged badge
#

I think it’s more so that Zavala’s arc in TFS was emotional

empty fern
jagged badge
#

Keith didn’t sound more emotional than he was meant to. Zavala was meant to be more emotional than he usually is

#

But the speech in Excision when Zavala finds his stride again? I thought it was perfect

#

And also it’s unfair to the character and the other VAs to kill him off just because of Lance

#

Lance wouldn’t have wanted that

little mist
#

The emotion would have had more weight from Lance, giving his usual cold commander demeanor. Putting in Keith and having him immediately be emotional has felt more like a character rewrite than anything.
I know youre right and im just being selfish. Lance was my favorite VA next to Kevin Conroy though

#

Now it is I who am emotion

jagged badge
#

I agree that Keith’s voice + Zavala being “out of character” in TFS felt jarring in combination