📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

Oryx flies out of the Dreadnaught

Gravity

[fathom osprey]

ohhh so when when we yeet him he goes to titan

[blazing wasp]

Eventually

[ember storm]

Well he just floated around for like eight years

[blazing wasp]

He was implied to be there in a prior lore tab

[ember storm]

Then the witness planet shit happened

[blazing wasp]

Being monitored

[ember storm]

He was around its orbit by the time the pyramid arrived I think

[fathom osprey]

damn

[ember storm]

Then he got whisked away along with Titan

Then he was just there

[fathom osprey]

bro was floating for like a decade

[ember storm]

Nice and chilled

Perfectly preserved considering the temperature of space

He wasn’t turning to stone or anything like people think, his body lost all protective magic the throne world gave him

His corpse was flashfrozen by the vacuum of space

When he falls into the depths of a methane ocean it’s just all melted away

[fathom osprey]

hmm

cool

[slim girder]

Most likely the precursors style of building. But as the witness since it likes to organise everything it just has all those materials and stuff as blocks.

The witness is just a cosmic being with massive OCD.

[sick yew]

Im not sure if I would credit it to the precursors as we have seen how their stuff looks during the 1st encounter of Salvations Edge and it doesnt really look that similar to og precursor stuff

Its a bit more in line with how Rhulk decorated his pyramid imo

Which I guess is an elevation of the more "modern" Precursor style

[slim girder]

It's highly speculative and who knows because as we have seen the styles change from area to area. Like we've seen what their cities apparently looked like but then other areas have a completely different layout.

[sick yew]

Correct
But afaik each Disciple generally decorated their Pyramid in a certain style

Rhulks pyramid makes this most apparent especially in 1st/3rd encounter
Hes a collector

He loooves to gather shit and display it

[slim girder]

Yeah they definitely added flourishes of their own.
Rhulk with trophies
Calus with gold and other shiny stuff.
We didn't see too much of nezarecs pyramid though. Just hallways really from the shadowkeep campaign and season of the haunted finale.

[sick yew]

Correct and its also worth noting that when we went into Nezzys pyramid its possible Bungie hasnt really come up with that Disciple idea yet

Remember it was back in Shadowkeep

So his Pyramid being rather simple and having nothing special going for it could just be the fact it was added at a time where Bungie hadnt thought this up yet

[slim girder]

True. They were probably just focusing on the main plotline around the black fleet just now appearing again.

Like we didn't actually get any huge information on the pyramid ships until I think beyond light and then witch queen actually revealed the witness and rhulk as its first disciple.

[slim girder]

Something interesting I just thought of. Maybe since nezarec utilised the power of nightmares, those could have been the "flourish" to his pyramid in a way. Probably not the case but still interesting imo.

[dim minnow]

Nezarec's Pyramid does seem pretty distinct from others we've seen

Though not in an obvious way

Since it is still a Pyramid ship

This could just be the result of Bungie not really deciding on what their plans for the Pyramids were at that point

[ember storm]

I think it’d be funnier if Nezarec’s pyramid was blinged out but then the fallen literally just stole everything

[fiery copper]

Neither do fire charges or the skyblock lava bucket+planks tech

[little gorge]

it is but because it's the only really "plain" one we go into

[blazing wasp]

fuck

good point

[little gorge]

actually there's also the europa one

[fiery copper]

The reason the moon pyramid isn't full of weird colorful statues is because the eliksni took everything that wasn't nailed down, as well as most of the stuff that was.

[little gorge]

but other than rhulk's the distinctive features of all the pyramid environments we've seen aren't really due to their owners

the witness' pyramid in ron is overran by the actual roots

and the monolith in se is all scattered and twisted because it's in the traveller and the final shape is happening

[slim girder]

That's because the monolith IS the witness. We basically just cut its head off in the raid.

[empty fern]

Not even, bro dipped at the end of the raid

[slim girder]

I meant the witness was the "head"

[ember storm]

I mean it was physically present for Iconoclasm and the monolith is also just in the background

So

[small quartz]

Okay but

Do the Belgians survive

[fiery copper]

Idk

Probably not

Actually

Depends whether or not the hive can find them on a map

So if they ask an American for directions, Belgium is completely safe and survives untouched

[small quartz]

Any civilations remain untouched?

[empty fern]

Dunno

[tough kettle]

very unlikely

[small quartz]

N&S Pole?

[cinder geode]

The witness feared florida

[jagged badge]

Where would people live at the South Pole?

[dim minnow]

nowhere, Antarctica no longer exists in the Destiny universe

[jagged badge]

Smh Dova

I was gonna build to that

[dim minnow]

likely melted even during the Golden Age

[jagged badge]

[small quartz]

The South

[small quartz]

WTF HAPPENED BRUH

[small quartz]

Evidently

"What the fuck is a Gay-tor?"

[dim minnow]

pollution

or Collapse

[small quartz]

In the time we're at our most advanced, pollution still fucks us over

[dim minnow]

depends on when it melted away

[small quartz]

Amazing

[jagged badge]

It was Wen Jie who told me. At first I didn't believe her—I mean, it's Wen Jie; she believes in moon fairies and the continent of Antarctica—but she showed me the crystals.

[dim minnow]

given that Micah Abrams said that Earth was pretty polluted, it is possible it melted away during the Golden Age

[small quartz]

"I believe in antartic-" send him to the loony bin

[dim minnow]

but the Collapse is just as likely to be the reason

[dim minnow]

also Dragonflies

they're treated like mythical creatures

[small quartz]

I believe in Antarctica

[dim minnow]

what a Neophyte

Antarctica isn't real

what's next, you're gonna tell me that Dragonflies exist?

[shadow warren]

And pineapples are safe to eat

[jagged badge]

[small quartz]

Wait what

[ember storm]

The concept of pineapples was lost to time

People think they’re not real because they think it’s some weird mishmash of apples and pinecones

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-no-there-is-another-star-wars-gif-23332632

[small quartz]

... no

what

[ember storm]

Humanity regularly dabbled in genetic splicing

[small quartz]

What

[ember storm]

Such creations as “kiwicumbers” were commonplace

So people think pineapples are one of those things

[small quartz]

... Oh

thats

disgusting

[ember storm]

Yeah

[small quartz]

Worst Fruit Combines with a Mid Vegitable

(Best Vegitable is Carrots btw)

[compact birch]

I have come to the conclusion that Starhorse is my favourite character they have added to this game.

[small quartz]

Goated

Can people ride him

[jagged badge]

[compact birch]

We need to have a scene of either your character or Xur riding Starhorse, it is not optional, it needs to happen.

[small quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/johnny-joestar-jojo-gif-20321441

let him ride the starhorse

[tough kettle]

it would be very difficult to get up onto the horse, isnt it like 9 feet tall? lol

[small quartz]

:/

yeah

thats how tall horses are

[tough kettle]

starhorse is a big horse tho

its paracausal large horse

[tough kettle]

i searched it up, and the tallest horse ever recorded was 7 feet 2.5 inches

[small quartz]

oh

Big Hors

[jagged badge]

Oh cheers Discord

[tough kettle]

some PEOPLE are 7 foot 2.5 inches. no person has ever gotten as tall as starhorse tho

[small quartz]

thats too based

[tough kettle]

i know xur has a disfigured spine, but oh my god he looks so small compared to starhorse

[compact birch]

I mean the guardian does seem to have a boost or double jump so he could get on top of Starhorse with relative ease.

[tough kettle]

true but xur does not have such abilities

[small quartz]

im so hungry I can eat a

[tough kettle]

i dont think u could eat starhorse

[wheat flower]

Ik star horse is a meme char but it would be cool if the worked it into the story sometime

For the halloween event ir something

[small quartz]

Oh you wanna try me?

[minor root]

hey loreheads, quick question
I'm not very well versed in the lore but I'm doing a lil thing for my discord where different announcements are made by characters/enemies that make sense, i.e. gatekeeper from VoG having an announcement in the channel that explains why the server is locked for guests etc.

My question is - which character do you think would fit for the rules channel? I was thinking Zavala. IDK if that's a basic bitch answer BUT I figure he seems (before TFS) pretty straight laced, somewhat militant, kinda zealot-y for the traveler, seems like a guy who's about his rules.

[slender ether]

There is a lore reason why. Some guardian got approached by xur and they hit xur in the back with a hammer. Im also an enemy of said guardian.

[tough kettle]

i know that already

[trim grotto]

Zavala would be suitable, for basically the reasons you outlined.

[trim grotto]

Well, they're coworkers now, so.

[minor root]

alright, ty :>

[trim grotto]

Orin was driven to obsession about and by the Nine. Eventually, they claimed her, and she became what we know today as the Emissary of the Nine.

[slender ether]

Oh. Right i forgot about that:(

[trim grotto]

Also, she hit him in the front. She thought he was reaching for a weapon while she was interrogating him about the death of Sjur Eido, linked to the Nine. What broke his back was the boulder he flew into.

[analog torrent]

Are there loretubers other than Byf/summary people, Mesomorphic/Darrenbaron/audiobook people, and archival people?
There's the guy that does custom inkblot cutscenes but that's all I can think of

[trim grotto]

Well, there's Myelin.

[analog torrent]

I thought he was a summary tuber?

ah no there's some speculation videos

[trim grotto]

He does theories.

[slim girder]

I'd put shaxx for the rules.

[minor root]

fair as well

[minor root]

What about for applications? I was thinking someone who's always trying to recruit people. Maybe Shaxx would be better suited for that.

[analog torrent]

Iron Lord Radegast is the first to come to mind but he's been dead for a bajillion years

[minor root]

never heard of em

[trim grotto]

Founder of the Iron Lords. Very dead.

[minor root]

RIP

[slim girder]

Very very dead

[analog torrent]

Cared a lot about his Iron Decree

Chad Felwinter ignores his rules and wears a dead Ghost on his helmet

[trim grotto]

Why not Ikora or Crow? Or even better, a Ghost?

[analog torrent]

*ignored
*wore
because he's dead too

[slim girder]

How about drifter?
"Be kind to one another, am I right?"

[minor root]

Hmmmm ghost is kinda cool if you think about it in the whole "ressurection = recruiting" thing

[analog torrent]

Shaw Han?

[slim girder]

Nah he's like that newbie who thinks they know everything

[trim grotto]

Oh wait
Hawthorne! She's the Clan vendor, after all.

[analog torrent]

Nah he trains em

"Eyes up, New Lights."

Shaw Han spoke to the group of Guardians assembled at the edge of the Cosmodrome. A field of ancient automobiles spread out behind him.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iii-cold-forging

[trim grotto]

Also true

[minor root]

hawthorne... true....

[slim girder]

I know they're dead but maybe the speaker?

[trim grotto]

A picture of the Speaker's corpse with absolutely no dialogue at all

[minor root]

ok now that hawthorne is brought up
I thought it would be cute for the gatekeeper to handle this, since, I mean, he's holding down the gate but

yall think this should be handled by Hawthorne instead?

[slim girder]

Hang on
How about warpriest? Since in king's fall he has to "deem you worthy"

[minor root]

Hmmmm

[trim grotto]

On another note before I get to that
There's also Micah-10
As the Den-Mother-Of-Ghosts, she's always got a group of Ghosts following her, helping them find their Chosen.

[minor root]

True

[trim grotto]

Anyway in the end it's your choice
Consider this though
Someone may be suitable, but that doesn't necessarily mean they fit the vibe you andnyout server are after
See what feels right

[minor root]

true

ty for the help guys :>

[tough kettle]

when an exo guardian is resurrected for the first time, do they keep the name number suffix as before they were brought back, or does it count as a "reset"?
for instance: i have a guardian whom i called ichor-13, if the "reset number" stayed the same, he would've died as ichor-13 and came back as ichor-13. if not, he would've initially died as ichor-12 and came back as ichor-13.

i know that name is stored in hardware for exos so thats how they know their name im just wondering if there's ever an explanation for this above question

[dim minnow]

as far as I know, the number is kept

[tough kettle]

oh yeah, otherwise there wouldn't be canon exos guardians with the suffix "-1"

[winter edge]

So like

Where is Sloane now?

[dim minnow]

probably chilling in the Tower

or with Ahsa

[winter edge]

They shoudlve just returned Titan and Mars as a patrol zone

[hardy drum]

if a guardians ghost dies they lose their light?

[cinder geode]

Yes

[trim grotto]

Indeed. Mortal, Lightless. Vulnerable and human.

[small quartz]

Can animals wield the light

Can King Julian be real if this happens

[blazing wasp]

If resurrected by a ghost, probably, but ghosts are unlikely to do so

They've only resurrected humans or species deriving from humans, or hive

[small quartz]

So the traveler is lemur racist

Smh

Rip king Julian in destiny 2

[blazing wasp]

You jest but the reason is probably just because they're not sapient

[small quartz]

Some animals are sapient

Like gorillas

And monkeys

[blazing wasp]

They are

But probably not intelligent enough

[small quartz]

Intelligence is very subjective

[blazing wasp]

They have to fit within a certain type of person generally

[small quartz]

I find ants very intelligent for forming colonies and great communication in masses

[blazing wasp]

Devotion, bravery, sacrifice

And or course death

[small quartz]

Yeah ants can do that

[blazing wasp]

Oh and also has to be human/hive

[small quartz]

Why the hive

[blazing wasp]

They probably can revive something else, but doesn't want to

[cinder geode]

Or eliksni we don't know that yet tho

[blazing wasp]

Ghosts have free will

But those fitting a requirement has a "spark"

[small quartz]

That’d go so hard

[blazing wasp]

Well the traveler originally ment to bless them

For the best elaboration, read the books of sorrow

Or watch byfs "dynasty"

[small quartz]

I hate reading so sounds boring

[slim girder]

Traveler meant to give hive the light, witness then lied to them leading them to become what they are now because it hates the light.

[trim grotto]

Well, it meant to uplift them into a Golden Age, to be a bit more precise.

[small quartz]

Do movies still get made

[blazing wasp]

Unknown

[trim grotto]

uh

wait

let me check something

YES HAHA

okay here

This is a real voice line by the way

absolutely love this guy

[trim grotto]

so there's your answer

[small quartz]

Huh

what?

[trim grotto]

listen to the audio file

[small quartz]

so yeah

[trim grotto]

here i transcribed it
Have you ever seen "The Constant Guardian"? I think you'd like it. It's, it's... it's kind of arty... but, I think... I-well read the book first, I think you'd like the book. And then uh... and then-and then check out the movie, not the-the newest movie, not the first one!

[small quartz]

I admire you Mael

youre cool

[trim grotto]

[blazing wasp]

oh yeah

i recalled that as a play but

i recalled wrong ig

[small quartz]

@trim grotto did ANYTHING survive the golden age?

[trim grotto]

Exo.

[small quartz]

like, I find it scary to realise no music survived

imagine how many great pieces were lost to time man

its kind of scary knowing theres 200-400 years of information out there

Imagine guardians listening to Sinnerman

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/ghost-scan-hallows-nessus-2

[small quartz]

Whys the ghost sound so clear?

also did all the Vex steal the golden age data

[trim grotto]

In order to explain this, I need to explain Kessler Syndrome. As an Exo, I feel a duty to the machine to convey its original purpose. But first: ACD stands for Active Contact Defense. It is not an AC-DC Feedback Fence and it is not named for any work of pre-classical music. I am not winking. That is a malfunction.

[small quartz]

i wish i understood what this mean but i get so confused easily

[trim grotto]

The Exo is explaining that the Titan Exotic, the AC/D0 Feedback Fence, is not named after the Australian rock band AC/DC.

[small quartz]

"I am not winking"

... his ass 100% winking

[red comet]

Would it be a stretch to make a guess that it’s crotas worm inside the vex network

[trim grotto]

You might have to elaborate.

[red comet]

Because we already know that crota was sent into a vex gate and what he did if they haven’t revealed it yet may very well have went into the vex network because we’ve already went into the vex network countless times and there’s countless portals to the vex network like one of them was open in a cave in the EDZ so I don’t think it’s very outlandish to make a guess that it’s his worm also what reinforces this is we know that the final dlc of TFS is a hive season so it could be that idk

Like the vex aren’t very good when it comes to keeping their shit closed and guarded they just slap a goblin or maybe a hobgoblin and just kind of leave them there

So it wouldn’t be too crazy to me to think that crota found a way in from that vex gate

And was met with very little resistance relative to him

[jagged badge]

I did not know they were Australian tbh

[red comet]

Ok so just read into it more and it says that crota infact was in the vex network

[blazing wasp]

He was forcibly cast into it by oryx as punishment

He was told to return stronger or something, or not return at all.

[trim grotto]

I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Crota and his Worm perished in their Throne World.

And as paracausal beings, simulating either of them was impossible.

[red comet]

That doesn’t exact change my point

[blazing wasp]

Never said it did

[red comet]

No I’m saying that I didn’t know if he was in the network or not

[blazing wasp]

I was clarifying

[red comet]

Hence why I corrected myself

[blazing wasp]

I don't even know what your point is

[red comet]

Yes they cannot simulate them but they can still enter the network

[red comet]

Read my original message

[blazing wasp]

I did read it

I just don't get it

No matter, as I wasn't really gonna do anything with it if I got it

[red comet]

You don’t get this?

[trim grotto]

You're stating that as if the worm is currently actively inside the network

[blazing wasp]

I do not, no, I don't need elaboration either as I won't agree/disagree either way

[trim grotto]

This would not be the case, as Crota died in the Throne World. And if it was... I'm still not sure what you'd be getting at with it.

[blazing wasp]

I just added the reason crota got in the network in the first place

[red comet]

Does crotas worm die when he dies?

[blazing wasp]

Ye, starves to death

[red comet]

Ahhh ok

[trim grotto]

That does tend to be the case, or shortly afterwards.

[sick yew]

Except Savathuns

Which is now gun

[blazing wasp]

Well savathun isn't dead

[trim grotto]

It was cursed to die, to be fair.

[blazing wasp]

Not dead dead

[red comet]

Are we not keeping that one alive

[trim grotto]

We are.

[sick yew]

From the perspective of her worm she is cause they're separated

It would starve if not for us

[trim grotto]

I have to ask, though: Why would Crota's Worm be inside the Vex Network at all?

Where'd this thought process come from?

[sick yew]

Was Oryx worm Taken?

[red comet]

Oryx killed his worm which is how he gained the ability to take from the deep (I think)

[sick yew]

Fr?

Damn

[red comet]

I was watching a video on the worm gods and the thought popped into my head last night

[red comet]

Yes lol

Yk the mural in the strike on the throne world

[trim grotto]

i
what no

no no

[sick yew]

Lmfao

[red comet]

Bro I ngl I’m quoting a video on that icl sorry if it’s wrong

[jagged badge]

Oryx killed Akka, a big ol’ Worm God

Not his own normal worm that he ingested that is physically inside him

[trim grotto]

Oryx killed a Worm God, Akka, and through this death he gained the power to contact the Deep. Oryx's Worm, his parasite, remained within him. Otherwise he'd, like, become mortal and/or die.

[sick yew]

But did that worm end up becoming taken somewhere along the way

[red comet]

Ahhhh

[jagged badge]

I did an oopsie in my message because my brain is not braining this morning

[sick yew]

Do taken worms even exist

[jagged badge]

Or this afternoon rather

I’m so tired

😭

[red comet]

The video I was watching said that akka was his worm mb

[trim grotto]

That's a common misconception of how the Worm Gods worked

As if they were patron gods

Not the case, but widely believed

[trim grotto]

Well, not specifically. Oryx "took" himself in the manner that taking can involve moving. So... think of it like he relocated himself, via taking.

I would assume becoming actually Taken would kill the Worm, as we've never seen evidence of one from any Taken Hive.

[sick yew]

I see

[blazing wasp]

We see worms from slain regular hive, never from taken hive

[small quartz]

wait

Savathuns Worm is a gun
so, what happens if we break the gun

[blazing wasp]

I mean we probably kill the worm

[timber palm]

I'm the God that created he Destiny world 👀

Lol

I'm canon, bros.

[sick yew]

During one of the witch queen post campaign quests we turned Savathuns worm into a gun

Parasite

[small quartz]

Yeah i am aware

so

what happens if we break it

[sick yew]

Death

It needs food to survive

[small quartz]

So why dont we do that

[sick yew]

Cause Mara said not to kill it

I guess

[small quartz]

wont that kill Savathun

[sick yew]

No

Savathun has long been separated from her Worm

That's what we did in uuuuuuh Defiance?

[small quartz]

D:

[jagged badge]

We exorcised the worm from Savathûn in Season of the Lost

[sick yew]

Ah it was lost

[small quartz]

we

[sick yew]

Can never tell them apart

[small quartz]

Exorcised it???

[sick yew]

Yes

[jagged badge]

Which is why we even needed to house the worm in the gun in the first place

[sick yew]

Mara used le magic

[jagged badge]

It needed a host to sustain its life

And we needed intel from it

[sick yew]

What did we want from it again

I can't remember

[jagged badge]

At first the worm believed Mara was going to be its new host, but either Mara tricked the worm the whole time or changed her mind and found an alternative way

[small quartz]

What do the worms do again

sorry

[jagged badge]

Give the Hive their power

The Hive kill to feed their worm and in turn gain more power from the act of killing

It’s an endless cycle, and eventually a worm’s hunger may even outgrow the Hive’s ability to feed it

Which is what happened to Savathûn, and thus why she had it exorcised

[ember storm]

That only really happens if you try to cheat the system by giving your worm a literally constant amount of tribute

Her worm was never going hungry thanks to the constant imbaru from the DC curse and therefore its appetite grew out of proportion

[small quartz]

so what could you theoretically make your worm like

All Powerful?

Like Planet Cutting Stuff

[ember storm]

The worms themselves are just worms

[jagged badge]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-gif-23697522

[ember storm]

They’re just used as conduits between the worm gods and their hosts

[small quartz]

aww Cutie

[jagged badge]

Imagine that thing being inside of you

Hive literally ingest the worms

[ember storm]

Yeah and they eat you from the inside if you’re unable to feed them

[small quartz]

... less cute

[small quartz]

So feed them smh

🤦‍♂️

[ember storm]

It’s not literal food though

[small quartz]

I can just imagine what freaky experiments theyd conduct with that

[ember storm]

It’s like magic essence you get from proving you are above other life forms

[small quartz]

oh

[ember storm]

Anyway, the hive regularly do horrible and grotesque experiments. How do you think this

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/universeconquest/images/c/c1/Grimoire_Thrall.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210124004224

Goes to this

https://destiny.wiki.gallery/images/6/66/Grimoire_Ogre.jpg

Spoiler alert it’s not very fun

[small quartz]

ill be the judge of that

hows it happen

[ember storm]

Magic forcing mutations and unnatural muscle growth among other things

[small quartz]

hmm

[stark fjord]

You know what confuzzles me?

[red comet]

is the process of ogre-ification an experiment or is it like a birth defect?

[red comet]

What

[ember storm]

Well

[stark fjord]

Isn’t it a bit of a coincidence that maya coincidentally went to Neptune which coincidentally held the veil?

Like

Maya sundaresh

Of all people

[red comet]

Well yes it is because she couldn’t see the strand and didn’t know about all of the paracausality

[red comet]

Wdym

[ember storm]

Eh

[stark fjord]

Waltz what do u think?

[ember storm]

I don’t think Savathun really accounted for who would be personally finding it

She just left it there because she knew that someone would

[stark fjord]

Im just saying

What I’m saying is Baseless btw

Isn’t it a bit weird that

[red comet]

If it wasn’t maya it would’ve been any other scientist that was also on Neptune at the time

[ember storm]

Isn’t it a bit weird that the Jedi find anakin while they’re just stranded on some random sand planet completely unaware they’d find the chosen one

[stark fjord]

Maya sundaresh the same person who researched prediction tech found herself landed on the veil

[ember storm]

There’s no special reason Maya found it

It was just there

[stark fjord]

So it’s more of a writer reason than a lore reason

[ember storm]

They definitely did not have any time to particularly choose when and where they’d be going

It’s just how things turned out

[stark fjord]

LOL ur funny

I just mean

Maya sundaresh

A megalomaniac 2nd to clovis bray

Finds the veil

Like

There has to have been something else that led her there

[ember storm]

Honestly I really don’t think so

[red comet]

Yeah I think it’s sheer coincidence

[ember storm]

She also really wasn’t that bad until she found the veil in the first place

[stark fjord]

A pretty freaking cool coincidence ngl

[red comet]

Oh yeah fr

[stark fjord]

Also

Do u think the veil has a conscience just like the traveller

[red comet]

Yes most likely

Infact more than likely I should think

[stark fjord]

Ngl I feel like the veil possessed maya

This is baseless

[red comet]

Given the fact that Darkness is infact like memory and consciousness

[stark fjord]

It might’ve been what made the witness crazy aswel

[red comet]

Idk if it could be the veil or just another force of the darkness

[stark fjord]

Cus think about it the witness and maya have similar ideals

[red comet]

Oh no the witness went crazy after it sought to reunify “light” and “dark”

And then became a collective

[stark fjord]

After coming in contact to the veil they both have the ideal to like “bring order to chaos”

The witness by becoming a winnowed and maya by becoming a conductor

I’m just spit balling

But uh

U don’t think the veil is opposed to the traveller?

[red comet]

Also just remember the witness was a fanatic and doesn’t share the same final shape as the winnower so it most likely didn’t posses the witness seen as the veil is the closest thing we’ve seen to the winnower yet

[red comet]

Wdym

[stark fjord]

Like

There must’ve been a reason why the traveller split itself from the veil

[red comet]

Yeah there is

I’m pretty sure it’s mentioned

[stark fjord]

Oh where

Is okie if u don’t know do u know the summary of it

[red comet]

I can’t remember for the life of me but it has something to do with the creation of the universe I’m pretty sure or what went down between the scrap that created the universe

[stark fjord]

Oh like the split made the Big Bang?

[red comet]

No

I’m pretty sure the fight between the winnower and the gardener had something to do with the current outcome of the flower game that we are experiencing

Idk if that’s said explicitly however it definitely affected it

[jagged badge]

If you’re referring to events described in Unveiling, we cannot be sure as to the veracity of them

[ember storm]

It was actually me I did it

[fiery copper]

It's 100% canon until it's 100% not

And then after it's 100% not, a random throwaway voiceline in the raid makes everyone re-question everything about the winnower and then it becomes 100% canon until it's 100% not

[ember storm]

Unrelated but the witness’ lines in excision go hard

“We are the edge that carved purpose into being”

Only wish it didn’t take like five years to actually start getting this characterization

[fiery copper]

So question

We finished the "Light and Dark Saga"

We killed the witness

But like

The winnower is still a thing
The gardener is still a thing
The Light and Dark are still actively doing stuff

It was just the Witness Saga

[ember storm]

It was the Light v Dark saga

[fiery copper]

And not even that because we had never even heard of this mf until witch queen

[ember storm]

As in everything was hinging on forces of light and dark clashing

Ideologies of light and dark clashing

It’s not about that now

[fiery copper]

Every time bungie has talked about it, they've said Light AND Dark saga

They've talked about Light Vs Dark

[ember storm]

Because it was solely focused on the aspects of light and darkness

It’s not going to be about that now

[fiery copper]

But the saga is always called Light And Dark

[dim minnow]

The Witness was the main motivator behind Light vs Dark

Since the Witness is gone, it will likely lead to the line between light and dark getting more blurred

[ember storm]

The line in the sand has basically been washed away by the tide

It don’t really matter anymore

[stark fjord]

The light is the gardener the darkness is the winnower they aren’t people but concepts

[ember storm]

You can remember who was standing on what side but honestly nobody really cares

If you misuse any power you’ll get what’s coming to you

[fiery copper]

We have never even seen the actual force behind the Darkness, the equivalent to the traveler. One of the two most important characters related to Light and Dark, and we have never interacted with them outside of lore tabs.

[fiery copper]

Unlocking Prismatic, ghost says "the line between Light and Dark is gone"

[ember storm]

I mean that was more in the literal sense

[fiery copper]

Idk I just feel baited. Bungie advertised TFS as "the end to the Light and Dark Saga" and it just... isn't.

[ember storm]

I really don’t get your point

It is the end

[stark fjord]

The line is metaphorical

[ember storm]

The witness was the only thing forcing darkness to be the aggressor

The “winnower” is not an active force at all

[stark fjord]

There isn’t really a end moreso the conclusion

[ember storm]

It does not invade worlds, enslave civilizations, hunt down the traveler

That was the witness

The witness did that of its own accord and cloaked itself in darkness the whole way

It’s the only reason the forces have been actively opposing at all

[fiery copper]

Bungie can label expansions however they want, but I don't agree with how they did that. The way I see it, there are still unresolved massive story threads about Light and Dark, and so it's just misleading to say it's the end of the saga about those two things.

[stark fjord]

The fallen got what they wanted
The cabal got what they wanted
The hive are fulfilled
The main problem are vex and taken

And scorn

And salvation

[ember storm]

Light and Dark was the focus of the saga, hence the name

Obviously not everything is explained because it’s not like we’re never getting anything about them ever again

They’re just not going to be the focus

Whatever the next dlc is going to be, it’s not going to be the routine “if we don’t stop this threat the traveler is gonna explode/die/get exploited!” that it’s been for literally 10 years now

[fiery copper]

Even if the new saga doesn't FOCUS on light and dark, the fact that THE FUCKING WINNOWER IS REAL and didn't make an appearance DURING THE LIGHT AND DARK SAGA is just dumb to me.

[ember storm]

Heresy is going to be introducing something new leading into whatever they’re calling Frontiers

By unveiling’s own description the winnower literally wouldn’t do anything

I’m not sure what you expected

It cleans up when the game is over, the game isn’t over

[stark fjord]

Relax with the f bombs

Try to keep things civil friendo

[fiery copper]

And honestly, Light and Dark not being the focus is even worse. If they reveal the winnower during this saga, that means it's sort of... side content? One of the two most important beings to Light and Dark doesn't even show up in its own saga.

[ember storm]

Did you expect the witness to die and then suddenly the sky goes dark and the big cosmic mushroom goes “haha you merely destroyed my MINION”

[stark fjord]

I always winower was darkness itself

[ember storm]

Light and dark are just things

[fiery copper]

My b gamer, just how I talk normally, dont mean anything rude by it. Will tone it down tho

[ember storm]

The witness was the thing forcing them into a war

[stark fjord]

Ur good just that some people can take it the wrong way

[fiery copper]

I can't say exactly what I expected, other than just... ANYTHING.

[stark fjord]

That would be really cool though lol

[fiery copper]

The traveler is the Gardener, or at least they are so intertwined that they are synonymous. The traveler isn't just a force of Light, they are the Source.

[ember storm]

You honestly expected the thing characterized with “I honestly don’t know what’s happening I just think I’m right in my bet” and “my man oryx” to be an active antagonist?

The “wager” was just that

[stark fjord]

Would the veil be the winnower?

[ember storm]

Unveiling describes that as the reason for the traveler being a silent, inactive god

It didn’t want to interfere in the “game”

why would the winnower do so

that would be directly admitting defeat

[stark fjord]

I think the travellers just a neutral force tbh

It doesn’t love us nor hates us

It’s not biased towards anything

But it will protect itself

[dim minnow]

The Veil is confirmed to be the Darkness Traveler

Osiris says so himself in the Veil Containment Logs

I also kind of predicted that after I played Lightfall

I mean, Pyramid motif with a more harmonic tone really seems on the nose

[ember storm]

I mean I feel like it was the general consensus it was just not elaborated on at all during LF itself

Veil containment was designed to be “ok wait we can fix this”

[dim minnow]

Yeah

And we got the greatest legendary hand cannon model from it too

[ember storm]

Like anybody could guess “is this big darkness artifact equivalent to the traveler?” but we had literally zero info on it besides the fact the two were “linked”

[ember storm]

sad that zaouli just outclasses

[dim minnow]

Wish we can enhance Epochal Integration

[ember storm]

I actually like epochal

[dim minnow]

Maybe so, but aesthetic automatically puts Epochal above it

[red comet]

I don’t know the name but I’m pretty’s sure but I can only make guesses

Also it’s only logical to assume a fight of that magnitude would affect our universe

[jagged badge]

Unveiling was a lore book from Shadowkeep which told a metaphorical story of the Gardener and the Winnower, the Flower Game they played before existence and their subsequent fight

[red comet]

Yeahhhhhh

[jagged badge]

It was given to us by the Witness and is acknowledged in universe as something that is highly likely to be propaganda

It may contain elements of the truth, but we don’t know exactly

[red comet]

Awh hell naw I’ve been consuming pro darkness propaganda

[dim minnow]

There are a lot of connections made between Unveiling and the Vex

So at least the stuff pertaining to the Vex in Unveiling is very likely true

[hollow drum]

when the fuck is that pulse and rocket launcher dropping too 😭😭😭😭😭

bungie deadass just forgot about them

[rose scaffold]

Discussion in the other channel made me think, we killed the witness by channelling the power of the traveller more effectively because we were inside it and bc we could use both light and dark. Do you think if we weren’t there, savathun and her lucent brood would have taken up that same mantle and succeeded?

[ember storm]

Eh, idk

Dunno if Savathun or Immaru would even pretend to be so selfless

[rose scaffold]

Not even selfless, I’d imagine that they’d want to stop the final shape just as much as us, no?

They live in the same universe

[slim elk]

Admittedly, I'm betting Savathun may try to copy off the Witness and grab ultimate power for herself

[rose scaffold]

Yeah that’s my thought too

I think her bringing her brood into the traveller was a two pronged plan

Backup for if we failed

[slim elk]

She's already blatantly pulling something off

[rose scaffold]

And future proof to try and get some of the traveller’s pure power for herself

[slim elk]

"Preparing for the next game" in her words

So once again the question becomes why not let Immaru fulfill his Destiny as a stress ball lol

[rose scaffold]

Honestly

Savathun is a horrible evil scheming plotting bitch who absolutely will try to stab us in the back every chance she gets

But also it’s very useful to have her power on speed dial if shit really goes south

Might be worth it

I also think that the hive can become better because of her

If you’ve seen the voicelines with luzaku savathun is trying to pull her brood out of the warlike culture it has been in

I think if she pulls that off and then fucks off herself

She can make the hive mucb better

[slim elk]

Yeah
But in those same lines she's praising Luzaku for forging her own path

[ember storm]

Luzaku is actively going against her plan but she’s also respecting her for being the only hive to recognize the point of getting a ghost

[slim elk]

So.. Savathuns presence is kinda forcing the issue. Hive will naturally follow her over finding their own way.

[ember storm]

Savathun definitely isn’t upset about having a brood willing to throw away their lives for her

She’s just pleasantly surprised when that norm is broken

And plus she knows we’d probably go on another personal murder mission if she tried anything

[blazing wasp]

Savathun probably saw what we did in forsaken

[slim elk]

Forget saw
We already killed her and left an impression lol

[ember storm]

She literally says “RIP Cayde” during lost

[blazing wasp]

one man army going on a genocidal rampage throughout the tangled shore, after having spoken for the first time in years to declare uldren sov as a dead man, just so we could fucking kill him

we basically took down a entire fucking mafia family on our own

with very minimal help save for some minor intelligence

[slim elk]

Remember
Our presence made Savathun stop gloating to Ikora

Savathun remembers we kicked in her door and offed her solo

[blazing wasp]

she also probably knows that beyond our brute strength we're really really fucking good at fighting dirty, like not "pocket sand" fighting dirty here

like serious talent

and thats pretty goddamn dangerous because that manner of fighting dirty took down oryx

you do not fuck with that

[rich veldt]

i mean just look at the list we have with our dirty fighting

[blazing wasp]

when i say we fight dirty its easy to misinterpret that as "oh we're just all bark no bite, anyone could've done that"

[ember storm]

It’s still funny to me that some of the guardian’s only genuine personal feats are killing the sol progeny

[blazing wasp]

its adaptation, clever thinking, sabotage

[rich veldt]

the who?

[ember storm]

3 black heart vex from the D1 campaign

Everything else has a long process of sabotage, teaming up, using new abilities, finding loopholes

[blazing wasp]

our main strengths dont lie in raw power
the sword is simple, it is sharp, it is strong
but the bomb is complicated, with the right mind and the right hand, it is far more devastating

our guardian is the bomb

[ember storm]

But nah we also just beat the shit out of the vex’s personal copy of primordial darkness

With some rare guns

[blazing wasp]

with my earlier analogy it is basically like a caveman bashing someones head in with a nuke

"thermonuclear blunt force trauma"

[wispy karma]

so about the tom's blight yucky stinky energy

is that oryx's heart?

touch of malice i mean

[narrow elk]

In the final shape, where every thing is in this stillness, would we still be conscious forever, or dead, is that known?

[cinder geode]

Like a perfect dream world

Like omori (I'm probably the only one who knows)

[narrow elk]

Really?

Doesn’t sound that bad tbh

[cinder geode]

Why would the witness promise all of these nice things to everyone

[jagged badge]

The Final Shape is a bad thing

Objectively

[trim grotto]

Read Entelechy, about the Noesis, and see if you think the same thing

[narrow elk]

Why if everybody gets to live in their dream world, ofc if the witness isnt lying again

[trim grotto]

Because it isn't a dream world by any stretch

[narrow elk]

I mean id understand if it was like pure consciousness for eternity but it apparently isnt

[trim grotto]

It is stillness, a universe halted, consciousness frozen and screaming into forever. A snapshot, perfect and refined and functionally dead.

It is NOT
A perfect dream world

[narrow elk]

So it is eternal consciousness

With darkness n stuff

[trim grotto]

Not awareness. An instance stretching into forever.

[narrow elk]

So for us it would be like death? Or would we „feel“ it?

[small quartz]

Can ghosts heal their shells

[trim grotto]

We are dead but not unmade. We are ossified ∩ temporized ∩ reiterated ∩ perpetuated ∩ anatomized ∩ finalized.***** 

I do not know if this will help. I do not know. I do not. But perhaps you will prevail.

—-Come, now. Don't be afraid.—-

This is not a call for help. It is too late ∩ there is no one left ∩ THE WITNESS cannot be stopped. This is our last proof.

We ∩ the Noesis existed.```

Chaos in the noosphere. The placid surface churned into white froth. Thoughtforms scattering in their thousands, fleeing up the webbing-strands, and finding doom at every junction.

"Help me!"

The stranger ∩ ruin ∩ predatory memeplex engulfed our noosphere in a moment's idle fancy. Our thoughtforms were atomic in comparison. We never stood a chance.

As each of my people were found, and taken apart, and reassembled, a new voice joined the chorus.

"Help me!"

My people died in their thousands. Thoughts and selves wisping away into nothingness. Thousands of years of memory, no more than smoke in the wind.

"Help me!"```

Not very nice.

[narrow elk]

Oh yeah

[small quartz]

Can you use candy wrappers as a ghost shell

[red comet]

Quite possibly

Most likely I should think

I don’t think there’s a limit as to the materials they can be constructed of

[small quartz]

Uranium shell

Are there any green lantern type shells

[ember storm]

Theoretically speaking you could just put anything onto a ghost and call it a shell

Like a hermit crab mistakenly using a piece of trash, though, it really wouldn’t act like an actual shell

It would offer no protection or other benefits

[small quartz]

Are there any green lantern shells

[ember storm]

no

[empty fern]

With the right shader yes

[small quartz]

Are there any comic references in D2 from the devs

[ember storm]

No not particularly

[grand jungle]

Is it possible for other hive lightbearers to be friendly like luzuku

[ember storm]

Eventually sure

[trim grotto]

Sure.

[grand jungle]

I want a friendly titan

[ember storm]

It’s worth noting that Savathun’s “praise” of Luzaku is basically just viewing her as a harmless novelty seeing as she’s just the one person to rebel against her

[trim grotto]

I don't know if I'd put it like that.

[ember storm]

If she had an actual uprising on her hands, I doubt she’d be particularly happy

It’s more of a “oh look someone is actually taking my advice and looking past the orders they’re given, isn’t that wonderful”

[trim grotto]

I think she's proud of Luzaku actually thinking for herself and moving part the dogma of the Hive. It's what Savathûn herself did.

[grand jungle]

Always wondered what that hand movement means

[blazing wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/mrbeast-ytpmv-rap-battle-squid-game-squid-game-vs-mrbeast-gif-25491394

[ember storm]

She wants a high five

[grand jungle]

Godam it

[small quartz]

It means “Mr beaaaast!”

[grand jungle]

Is it them like stretching they arms or something

[small quartz]

They cast exploding kidney

[rose scaffold]

I’d agree with this

Savathun is a plotting, scheming bitch, but not always a self serving one

She started out making pacts with divine powers to save her race

I am sure that she will continue doing so

[dim minnow]

Ehhh

I wouldn't really say she's ever been selfless

[rose scaffold]

I would not call her selfless but ever since she was reborn by the traveller she has been notably less explicitly self centered

[slim girder]

She's definitely more "wrong things for the right reasons" type of character.
She still absolutely serves herself and her goals though.

In my opinion at least in the pale heart it was more "We need to work together otherwise I'm not going to be here to take over later down the road"

[ember storm]

Which she actively has attempted to do since the witness died

The only reason the lucent hive are in the pale heart is because Savathun wants to claim it

[analog torrent]

Where did the "classes have always been a thing and every Lightbearer is rezzed with a class" thing come from? I left a youtube comment saying that classes rose with the City and fucking months later I'm getting people replying (who have stated that they haven't read the lore) saying that class is inherent and immutable

[ember storm]

It’s part of the new light campaign where ghost says bs like “you’re a hunter, you’re not afraid to take risks”

[trim grotto]

Probably because even the Dark Age Iron Lords and Warlords tend to fit neatly in class roles.

[ember storm]

Makes it seem like ghost picked your job for you

[analog torrent]

The thing is they haven't read the lore so there's no way they would know this lol

[wheat flower]

Anybody know if we're ever gonna build on the 2nd queen adventure mission

Like when we could see as taken see

Or was that just left to be open ended?

[small quartz]

Can you corrupt a ghost

[sick yew]

Corrupt as in?

[small quartz]

Like how dredgen was

[sick yew]

hmmm

I dont think so?

[small quartz]

That’d be cool though

[trim grotto]

Not quite so physically, but yes, they're people with free will too. If they so desire, they can go... bad, and they can be tempted.

[g:02] Nothing will deter him. None of you can stop him. Not anymore.
[g:03] Toland will hear the Deathsinger's melody. He will redefine death, escape the Traveler's blunt samsara.
[g:04] He will sound the depths of the powers you so myopically fear.
[g:05] My only regret is that I will not live to see his triumph.```
```"You have nothing to fear, Little Light. Your Guardian is… touched. We are here to help."

"You mean you're here to put us down."

"Not presently. Give us the coordinates of your heading. Then, you will be escorted to the City in peace."

"You know. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here."

"We've tracked the gravitational disturbances, yes. The Warmind had revealed the anomaly was moving through the outer system. But you know that, and you know how to find it."

The Ghost mimics a "spit" noise. "Run back to your quiet Traveler. I won't be ordered around anymore!"

Aunor's body deflates as she holsters her weapon. "Bahaghari…" she says. A Ghost appears at Aunor's side. "Prepare our tools. This one appears touched as well."```

[echo ore]

What is the seventh seraph?

[trim grotto]

An organisation of trusted human agents working directly for Rasputin during the Golden Age.

[small quartz]

Where does Rasputin come from lore wise, the name

[dim minnow]

Mihaylova, a russian researcher, was the one who originally made him

[trim grotto]

I bear an old name. It cannot be killed.
Rasputin was named after... Rasputin.

[small quartz]

What did he name it after

Is what I meant

[dim minnow]

though it is worht noting that Rasputin was just named "R." at that point

[small quartz]

But how do they know

Wasn’t that information lost by then

[dim minnow]

Rasputin was created technically before the GOlden Age

[small quartz]

Ohhhh

Is Rasputin still alive

[dim minnow]

no

I feel certain that this Moon X is an intelligence, perhaps an AI, and I don't feel safe with it at all, do you? But bear this in mind: for our own AI to serve us well, it will need secrets too.

For AI to serve Humanity, we must feel comfortable, and for us to feel comfortable, we must never know the truth: that we have a servant who would surpass us if ever it desired. Of course it won't, because we control it. But we should not doubt that it is a necessary subterfuge nonetheless.

Sincerely,

Dr. M. Mihaylova```

[dim minnow]

he sacrificed himself to save the Traveler at the end of Season of the Seraph, which was right before Lightfall began story-wise

[trim grotto]

The... Golden Age? Of course not, no. The Collapse hadn't happened, Humanity was thriving.

[trim grotto]

To elaborate on this for you Dana, Rasputin sacrificed himself to destroy his old Warsat network, which had their weapons trained on the Traveler (and the Last City behind it) after the system was hacked by Eramis, Xivu Arath, and her Wrathborn.

Clovis Bray was also there on "our side" being thoroughly unhelpful

[heady wedge]

Whose the cabal in the middle?

[trim grotto]

Umun'Arath

Evocate-General, Primus of all Legions

The general of generals, in other words

[ember storm]

Caiatl should’ve just bonked Calus’ big potato head right then and there

[trim grotto]

I'm more shocked that Ghaul didn't.

I mean, he would have, but Caiatl stopped him.

[ember storm]

The fact that Ghaul is still characterized to prefer that dinky little sidearm is still hilarious to me

Hyped himself up by calling himself the slayer of gods and razor of a thousand worlds

Then he just goes “wait a second I need to take this out of my holster” and does a little elbow pump

[small quartz]

Who was ghaul

[trim grotto]

Dominus Ghaul, leader of the Cabal Empire after he deposed Emperor Calus in the Midnight Coup. Primus of the Red Legion, he who began the Red War, trapped the Traveler, stole our Light, and conquered the Last City.

[small quartz]

Stole our light???

[trim grotto]

He trapped the Traveler, and cut off the Light to every single Lightbearer in existence.

[small quartz]

Holy shit

Why can’t we play this bruh

[trim grotto]

Well, that was the vanilla d2 campaign.

But when Beyond Light rolled around, Destiny needed significant engine updates, and the older content got left behind.

Of course not all content was quite as exciting
Such as when we fought Xol, Will Of Thousands, one of the mighty Worm Gods, they who created the Hive... or Nokris, exiled son of Oryx the Taken King, the most powerful heretic Hive necromancer we've ever seen...
In Strikes, during the Warmind expansion.
Wow.

[small quartz]

That sounds exciting

[trim grotto]

It would have been, were it not part of the Strike playlist. It'd be like killing Oryx in the Vanguard Ops you grind out every week.

[small quartz]

Uhhhhh

I haven’t killed oryx so

[trim grotto]

...it'd be like... fighting... Jojo... but he was very weak and you did it multiple times a week/day.

||I know nothing about jojo||

[small quartz]

That ain’t how this works 😭😭

[trim grotto]

Is Jojo not a person
Is it a group

Imagine you're fighting one of the Jojos...

[heady monolith]

there indeed multiple jojos

[small quartz]

No lmaooo

JoJo is the nickname of every protagonist

[small quartz]

Jonathan Joestar
Joseph Joestar
Jotaro Kujo
Josuke Higashikata
Giorno Giovanna
Jolyne Cujoh
Johnny Joestar
Josuke Higashikata

See it takes the Jo from the first and last name

You confused enough

[dim minnow]

where tf "jo" in Higashikata

[fast tapir]

its in there somewhere

[small quartz]

In the Kanji Higa means Jo

Iirc

Now ask me why there’s two of them

:3 I digress we’re getting off topic sorry

[heady monolith]

the same jotaro, grandfather of joylne right¿?

[heady wedge]

So much fucking aura in explaining him

Dominus Ghaul is such a cool fucking name

[trim grotto]

Technically, Dominus is his title. He replaced Emperor with Dominus.

[heady wedge]

I mean still

Cool as hell

[small quartz]

What

[heady monolith]

oh whoops i meant josuke

[small quartz]

Uh no

[heady monolith]

oh

[slim girder]

We need another dominus. I know the cabal are allies now but still I'd like another cabal baddie like ghaul. He had one of the hardest lines ever "You're not brave, you've merely forgotten the fear of death, allow me to reacquaint you".

[heady wedge]

Him just showing up and taking the light was so hard

The red war imo was one of the best campaigns

[slim girder]

Yeah I miss it. But I've enjoyed the other campaigns mostly.

[heady wedge]

lightfall

Yeah, mostly.

[slim girder]

I didn't mind lightfall and I did enjoy the expansion. I won't fault Bungie for trying something different but it definitely wasn't the best move. And then they spent 4 whole seasons trying to fix it.

I like neomuna and it's lore with the veil and everything but it needed to be in the campaign.

[jagged badge]

They didn’t spend four seasons trying to fix it

The seasons were part of the plan. Part of the ongoing narrative they were trying out

Veil Containment wasn’t a response to Lightfall’s criticism, contrary to what people may believe

[slim girder]

I know. What I meant was by "fixing" it they tried to give us all the lore and information on the veil over 4 seasons since it was missing from the expansion itself and they had to assure us that we'd get more lore in season of the deep. But obviously this wasn't what players really wanted. I don't fault bungie for trying a different approach but again, I think it should have been in the actual expansion.

[small quartz]

Jotaro is Jolynes Father
Josuke is Jotaros… Uncle
Josuke is in another universe

[pure tree]

i remember reading smth along the lines that the reason the Traveler never gave Ghaul and the cabal the light was it didnt want to impart unnecessary suffering on Ghaul and the Cabal that was released with TFS, tho idk if im high and made shit up or its an actual piece of lore. is there anything that is remotely close to this?

k nvm i found it, its the ergo sum lore tab

[small quartz]

Wait so

Does The Torture dance Imply that JoJo Part 5 survived the Golden Age???

[winter edge]

Wait you're saying that the only reason Traveler doesn't gave Ghaul the Light is because it feels bad?

Not the whole almost killing it with the All Mighty?

[pure tree]

You are a prisoner. The cage is so small that you can barely breathe. He screams at you to share your gift. You would not give it to anyone who thought of it so. It is a burden, a terrible weight that you have already asked too many to bear, to be crushed by. You could say all this, and more. You do not.

im interpreting that as the traveler thinking giving the light as a curse to those who have it

doomed to fight and die in worship of it against the witness and the black fleet and its minions

like the ammonites, the harmony, the eliksni, and humanity

[blazing wasp]

I mean the traveler doesn't give the light the way ghaul wanted it anyway

He doesn't fit the criteria

[stoic mulch]

Did the dissenters willingly give themselves to create the witness? Did they all have this idea in mind about using darkness to end suffering?

Or are they called precursors

[cinder geode]

They were basically forced to become the witness by said something about a group of precursors that killed dissenters and I assume forced them into the witness

[jagged badge]

Not exactly

Or not entirely

Some of the Dissenting voices became dissenters over time

Those who had initially believed in “our Witness” and then saw the horror they were inflicting on the universe

[slim girder]

Something I really want to know about the witness is who made the decision for everyone to become the witness? When we face the witness we can hear the dissenters saying "we won't suffer another day with you" and then when we do kill the witness it goes from "we" to "I don't understand" implying it was one being that was the head of everything.

Like we set everything free except for the one that was left at the end.

[cinder geode]

It said I instead of we is because it could feel the light separating it from the other voices

[slim girder]

But even still "I" implies it's one person and even the dissenters saying they wouldn't suffer another moment with "you" can also imply that.
We know that there were factions among the precursors but surely those precursors had leaders of sorts within those factions.

[cinder geode]

Probably like the big boss of the precursors or the one that first found the traveler

[slim girder]

Maybe. I just thought it was very interesting that the witness for the first time it didn't refer to itself as a collective.

[ember storm]

The witness was never a person

It was created by the precursors, the manifestation of their will and ideology

It fully believed itself to be the only proper way, with any dissenters only momentarily “put away” until they could be reintegrated

The witness calls itself salvation because it fully believes that to be the proper course of action

The moment before the witness’ death was the only time it was forced to recognize that its creators, those who had given everything they had to create it, no longer supported it

It no longer represented any group, it was just an outdated idea

It had no concept of this, and so, “I don’t understand”

[slim girder]

My interpretation of it was by the end of excision we had set all the other precursors free and as it died there was a few left when it said "we" and then when those went away it then said "I" like there had to be a final one to fade away as we dealt that last blow.

[stark fjord]

heyo

[stark fjord]

um

the merged beings all died alongisde the witness

they were all chained together through that binding ritual

when witness-chan died they all went down with them

[young wraith]

Is the Conductor confirmed to be Maya?

[stark fjord]

its hinted

(most likley0

shes the only person who calls herself or references a conductor

and she did so something similar to the conductor on venus

[young wraith]

Yeah

Also this season's story seems kinda mid so far but it's ramping up abit now

Apparently we're close to finding the conductor so maybe at the end of this act we figure out who it is

[stark fjord]

idk i feel its pretty cool rn

saint is actually from another universe from the looks of it

dark future maybe?

[young wraith]

Another timeline most likely

I think

[stark fjord]

multiverse destiny?

[stark fjord]

esentially another universe

[young wraith]

not exactly

[stark fjord]

time = space

time/space

[young wraith]

No, you can change the timeline without turning it into a completely different universe

And you can come from a different timeline but not be from a different universe

[stark fjord]

how ab this

if timeline a and timeline b started off the same

but branched off and became polar opposites

are they the same world?

[young wraith]

Technically yes

[stark fjord]

but physicially

are they the same

do u see what i mean?

[young wraith]

No they're obviously not the same but I don't think they're different universes

[stark fjord]

idk thats up for discussion personally

but aside from that

universes aside

timelines aside

[young wraith]

Yeah

[stark fjord]

u think the other timelines are real

or vex simulations

[young wraith]

Idk enough about the lore but maybe vex simulations

[stark fjord]

ngl if its a vex sim then its a long thing tbh

cus vex cant simmulate light

theyre known to manipulate light but to an extent

like with saigra and saint 14

[young wraith]

Apparently this is where the conductor is

Or close

the mission just kinda ended

When you got there

but apparently we know where the conductor is

[stark fjord]

is that a leak?

[young wraith]

No

I'm in the game rn

[stark fjord]

oh i havent been on destiny yet mb

[young wraith]

Brug

Now we gotta wait another 27 days

To figure out what happens next

[hollow drum]

||lakshimi is maya||

posting that a half hour after the drop is kinda crazy ngl

that aside was it the witness dissenterw who gave us stasis

and wtf was the nature of strand just being on neomuna uncontrolled or unsupervised like it’s just a part of the planet

[young wraith]

Oh

[stark fjord]

SPOILERS

OMG

BRO

😭

[hollow drum]

yeah dawg do you mind spoilering that image it hasn’t even been an hour

i’m not too upset cause i’ve unfortunately been spoiled like a month ago cause of a fuckass leaker

[young wraith]

Oh mb

[ember storm]

||lol||

[dapper moss]

||man saint touching his body was so good||

MY INTERNET DISCONNECTED ME JUST AS ||THE CONDUCTOR CUTSCENE|| HAPPENED

[cloud gust]

||The fact that it was Maya Sundaresh in Lakshmi’s form was surprising||

[sick yew]

Really?

Pretty sure people saw that coming

But like ||can she please put the helmet back on? I think the design goes much harder that way||

[wheat flower]

||Is what she's doing really that bad?||

[sick yew]

I mean

Yeah?

[wheat flower]

||Isn't she just trying to make an army of vex to help humanity?||

[sick yew]

Pretty sure shes trying to ||make everyone Vex||

[wheat flower]

Ooh

That makes more sense

[fast tapir]

the eliknsi better watch out.

[sick yew]

[ember storm]

||she’s planning on killing those who disagree with her using radiolaria to convert them to subservient vex||

||whoever actually agrees with her (and who she actually deems as a valuable asset probably) would be spared, anyone else no||

||she’s also just rearranging and converting planets into her ideal view of what the golden age should be, which isn’t exactly great||

Anyway not to toot my own horn

|| #📚lore-discussion message||

[candid inlet]

waltzsobs (ID 449393682622185472)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
Esi was also not very happy about it “speaking with her voice” which I think means that Lakshmi’s voice was also Maya’s voice

Command triggered by waltzsobs. Message link from · Jul 16, 2024, 1:28 PM

[ember storm]

Uh oh

@sick yew can you kill this bot message

[gilded coral]

who is lakshmi?

[empty fern]

Future war cult leader
Exo

[gilded coral]

and the new evil woman took her face?

«new»

[empty fern]

Maybe

[ember storm]

||it is “her” face||

The Lakshmi we knew wasn’t a real person

It was the result of experimentation with already-existing exos who were killed by the veil

The name and body belonged to Lakshmi, the original person

Due to how she did the experiment, though, the “Lakshmi” we knew spoke with Maya’s voice and was built on her experience

[gilded coral]

huh interesting

[ember storm]

||Since the conductor isn’t really organic in any way, the body she made for herself has a form she was already familiar with, Lakshmi||

[plush obsidian]

i fuckin knew it before any of this started

[royal adder]

||damn i just did the story and the community was so right on who it was||

[green cobalt]

||it was hinted at||

[plush obsidian]

i knew hella people were saying it was that person and whoever said it prob shitting their pants

[royal adder]

||so the thing around their neck is that the echo?||

[ember storm]

||Either that or it’s just inside of her and that’s like the exhaust||

[royal adder]

oh

[ember storm]

||anyway, you can actually even see the exo head ornaments on the silhouette||

[cinder geode]

||I think maya is just using the echo's power and the echo is safely secured in the pyramid thing in the area where the cutscen takes place||

[serene swift]

||in the new seasonal mission why do we just talk with maya and not like… do anything to her, then we run off||

[dim minnow]

|| It's clear that fighting her there is not a good idea. She brings Saint to his knees and is summoning several Vex to defend her. Not to mention that she still has the Echo at her disposal. ||

[ember storm]

||she could literally just waterbend the radiolaria at us||

[devout nimbus]

I check this chat and it's just all spoilers lol

[cinder geode]

I wonder if there's any lore about us

Other than we're abnormally strong for a guardian

[serene swift]

||perhaps this is a disconnect between gameplay and the lore in my brain, but there was 4 goblins and hasn’t our guardian canonically killed some pretty impressive things?||

[dim minnow]

||Yes, but Saint and Osiris were both vulnerable and the Conductor is likely not an ideal opponent||

[cloud gust]

||I knew it was going to be Maya, but not as Lakshmi||

[gleaming walrus]

is Osiris Gay for Saint-14 (I dont Know the Lore I just hear Osiris gushing abt Saint-14)

[tough kettle]

yes

they are confirmed to be gay

they are canonically in a gay romantic relationship

[gleaming walrus]

Good for Them 👍

[cloud gust]

https://youtu.be/eAIpmG9-iLs?si=xeXAv_2sdpRT7-JY
Idk man pretty hard to tell

[broken relic]

Historians say they were very good friends

[cloud gust]

Coworkers perhaps

[broken relic]

Sworn brothers even

[tough kettle]

historians miss major moments of the plot because they're FREAKING IDIOTS

[broken relic]

I got an error when I was supposed to get the cutscene does anyone have a link to it

[cloud gust]

https://youtu.be/4zI1M75uug4?si=-f4eDBvHEsLj-yHb
Good enough

[broken relic]

Thank

[small quartz]

@trim grotto does the Torture Dance emote imply that a copy of Part 5 exists in the modern era?

cuz its from part 5

[trim grotto]

I do not know what that is

[hollow drum]

yes

[small quartz]

Uh In JoJo Part 5 they perform a Dance which is really iconic
Same Dance is in the Eververse

'Torturous Dance'

[tough kettle]

If every eververse item is canon, it would also suggest that crossover items such as the mass effect ones are canon, i do not think that makes much sense to look into them that much

[small quartz]

I mean thats possible

arent some Cosmetics from AU's?

[sick yew]

I dont believe that every eververse item is canon

The implication from some of Tess' voicelines is that emotes sorta are

Im not quite sure how the process of selling a gesture works but eh

[cloud gust]

You buy the rights to use them💀

[sick yew]

They really patented the concept of a thumbs up

Maybe the Last City is truly off worse than we thought

[cloud gust]

Financial crisis

[sick yew]

Thats nothing new
Legends will remember the dark days when Season of Dawn was around

[small quartz]

So

Yes JoJo Survived :3

Idk i find it silly to believe that

[sick yew]

The Fractaline market crash

[small quartz]

the what

[sick yew]

I wasnt actually around during that time but here what I recall
There was a currency called Polarized Fractaline that you needed to iirc bring Saint back?

it was one of those community quests where everyone contributed

[small quartz]

so pay to win

[trim grotto]

As Alex said I wouldn't put that much stock in Eververse things
The hard Light emotes are conceptually canon but otherwise don't put much thought into it

[small quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-meme-spongebob-mafia-mafia-money-gif-12714856527416165903

[trim grotto]

What?

It was a seasonal activity.

[small quartz]

nothing just goofing

[sick yew]

But people farmed like waaaaaay too much so after the event was done people had far too much of those things left over

[small quartz]

ik

[sick yew]

Creating the joke that the Fractaline market was overinflated

[small quartz]

iirc I heard somewhere Some cosmetic collabs are Alternate Universe items?

[sick yew]

@trim grotto did I get that right

[sick yew]

The description in the store says something like "based on legends from a far away universe" or something

But I think thats more just a stylized way to say "crossover item"