📚lore-discussion

[empty fern]

The dark blade

Whole reason blades in prison was related to love or something

[fresh zephyr]

He tried to overthrow Oryx

Failed and got thrown in there

[empty fern]

I see

[fresh zephyr]

Ghost: Eris, why did the Darkblade rise against Oryx?

Eris Morn: The Wizard Verok was his mate. He slew a legion of Thralls in her name. Marched on the King's throne, at the head of an army built on hate and pain.

Ghost: How...romantic.

[vagrant bridge]

We have the dark blade and the light blade

[empty fern]

Romantic indeed

[vagrant bridge]

When do we get the dim blade

[fresh zephyr]

When we finally pop his Ghost, probably

[empty fern]

The in between

[broken relic]

Who’s the lightblade again I forgot

[vagrant bridge]

Soon.

[empty fern]

Still currently searching for it

[empty fern]

Dark blade but got revived

In wq strike

[broken relic]

Ah

[vagrant bridge]

Isn't Kelgorath the new darkblade

[fresh zephyr]

Kinda sorta maybe

[empty fern]

No he’s some taken boss in the pale heart rn

[fresh zephyr]

The Darkblade model has been reused a lot

[broken relic]

Anyways he’s going to be the second one to master prismatic

[vagrant bridge]

Kelgorath, (something or other) of Failure

[empty fern]

Love me some fotl, glyph breakers
And moon story missions

[empty fern]

Gotta wonder if it’s just a memory or the actual one

[fresh zephyr]

Could be the actual one, since the Witness brought in a lot of people with it to the Pale Heart.

[empty fern]

True

Wonder what LUZAKU will have in future developments

[fresh zephyr]

I hope when we inevitably merc Savathun

She takes over

[vagrant bridge]

Probably a memory, I suspect we'll keep beating him up

[broken relic]

Savathun would probably be happy about that

[empty fern]

How romantic

[fresh zephyr]

Given how giddy she was about how Luzaku 'got it', yeah.

That whole conversation still cracks me up

'Look at you, all moved out and on your own!'

[willow dagger]

Do guardians ever fall in love with their ghosts?

[fast tapir]

🤨

[willow dagger]

Wat

[fresh zephyr]

I mean

[willow dagger]

Genuine question

[fresh zephyr]

Technically they could

But I dunno if it's ever happened in the lore

[empty fern]

Kyra what’s going on in your brain

[broken relic]

In the RPG “Destiny: Frontiers”, sequel to the popular MMO “Destiny 2”, players can fix Savathun by romancing her

[willow dagger]

I think a certain orange fellow could possibly know

[fast tapir]

💀

[trim grotto]

No.

I mean, it's not implausible, but it hasn't happened.

[willow dagger]

[empty fern]

Don’t think there’s any mention of it yet

[fresh zephyr]

Nah, there's no fixing Savathun now

Her best shot was getting an actual fresh start

Just gotta put a bullet in it

[broken relic]

Honestly the scene with Cayde and Sundance made me wonder too, obviously not them but in general

[willow dagger]

AH

YES

[ruby pivot]

what do you guys think about people ranting about dual destiny not being soloable? i think its fine as it is since uhmm it kinda emphasize a being of light and dark, and 2 sides wanting either peace or war

[willow dagger]

I was wondering bc Cayde had that tone that men get when they talk about their love!

[broken relic]

In the RPG “Destiny: Frontiers”, sequel to the popular MMO “Destiny 2”, Savathun can make players who romance her worse

[ruby pivot]

what?

excuse me that did you say?

[fast tapir]

you heard em

[willow dagger]

Absolutely not @empty fern I didn’t even mention Cayde and Sundance but they knew what I was referencing!

[ruby pivot]

i....i want to double check my eyeballs if i am reading it wrong

[ruby pivot]

when was this a thing, ur joking right

is it a book or a game?

who even wanna romance a hive queen?

[broken relic]

Joking unfortunately

[ruby pivot]

oh ok ok

actually my last sentence i might know a few nvm that

[broken relic]

Didn’t think about it until the scene where he talks to her

[willow dagger]

Now that Riven is dead will she get to be with Taranis?

[chrome fog]

I think it’d be nice, hasn’t happened; don’t think Cayde really had that vibe Worm Sundance

[ruby pivot]

i hope

[fresh zephyr]

Riven is just 'normal dead' since she just exhausted her powers or whatever from what I remember.

[willow dagger]

[fresh zephyr]

Taranis apparently wiped himself from existence or something

[ruby pivot]

oh right taranis is dead dead, like even his spirit is dead

[willow dagger]

But what about the babies!

[chrome fog]

That’s not the sole defining trait of love

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ruby pivot]

the babies lives thanks to his sacrifice, a sentimental fool as riven says he is, nevertheless a father to his kids

[fresh zephyr]

Think they are talking about the Ahamkara babies

[trim grotto]

i think she means their literal actual babies, buddy

the eggs

[willow dagger]

I don’t even know what you’re implying, I was asking about what’s going to happen to them now that their parents are dead

[chrome fog]

Ooops I’m loopy

[fresh zephyr]

But they'll probably get raised by Momma Mara or something

[raw hazel]

just so y'all know i am cackling

[willow dagger]

Omg

[chrome fog]

Thought it was for the Guardian-Ghost relations

[willow dagger]

… can ghosts have babies?!

[fresh zephyr]

Nope

[willow dagger]

Ah

[ruby pivot]

[fresh zephyr]

Ghosts are just pieces of the Traveler

[willow dagger]

[chrome fog]

It is 5. In the morning. I made this. With just a razor and a large rusty pair of clippers. Owie fingies. Brain gone.

[broken relic]

I will adopt one to raise alongside Failsafe

[ruby pivot]

i dont think they can

[ruby pivot]

insomnia?

[chrome fog]

Also yea I don’t think there is a reproductive function built into the Ghosts

[chrome fog]

Idiocy; should’ve gone to sleep

[broken relic]

If they could make more ghosts there would be less of a problem

[chrome fog]

With that Night night

[fresh zephyr]

I guess technically they could maybe split themselves to form a new being if they knew how the Traveler did it, but probably not.

But it'd probably be really weak

[ruby pivot]

oooh yeah, for some reason our body have "pls sleep" or they rebel and wont let you sleep pass that specific time

like how i usually sleep at 11 but if i go pass 12, it becomes difficult to sleep

[fresh zephyr]

You get so tired

You go past tired

And get energy

[broken relic]

I did this the other day except at 8 in the morning

[willow dagger]

Are the star cats and the star horse… related?

[chrome fog]

No

[trim grotto]

Star Horse is questionably canon at best

[willow dagger]

Mael

[chrome fog]

More like the nature if Star Horse allows it to be detached from canon

[willow dagger]

Uldren Crow story when

[chrome fog]

Already happened

Haunted

[willow dagger]

Wat

[chrome fog]

Season of

[fresh zephyr]

All the Horse statues the Witness has had to come from somewhere.

[chrome fog]

Haunted

[fresh zephyr]

Since I doubt it collected them on Earth during the Collapse

[willow dagger]

Ok wait where does star horse come from? What’s its story?

[chrome fog]

Could say it saw the face of god and it was a funny horse that also embodies the studio that developed the universe

[fresh zephyr]

We have zero idea

[chrome fog]

It is just Bungie. It’s just bingos

Bibgo s

[fresh zephyr]

It's supposedly some kind of multiversal being

But who knows

[willow dagger]

And it’s friends with Xur?

[fresh zephyr]

Maybe there was a Horse in the Garden.

[chrome fog]

It commands Xur

Paraverse is bungi multiverse

[willow dagger]

So starhorse could be in another game bungie makes?

Does Xur ever… like ride it?

[chrome fog]

Hinse opened pathways into Paraverse to bring enemies to fight

[trim grotto]

Dares of Eternity and the Starhorse exist for Bungie to be silly and have fun with their 30th Anniversary of the company and little else

[willow dagger]

Wait are the strange coins from the horse?!

[trim grotto]

no

[chrome fog]

Heh, pathways to

[trim grotto]

The coins are related to the Nine

[chrome fog]

Donkness. Praveverss

[willow dagger]

And… and they are?

[chrome fog]

Gettin deja vu

[trim grotto]

The actual things Xur is connected to, rather than the barely canon Horse

[willow dagger]

What is Xur? Why does his face wiggle like such?

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

[willow dagger]

…

[chrome fog]

Dunno. Maby humam from ship past th asteroid belt

[broken relic]

Is it a marathon reference I know absolutely nothing about Marathon other than the shotgun

[chrome fog]

Got fucked up by the Nine making him their little courier guy

[trim grotto]

What? Dares? It's chock full of many references. Pathways Into Darkness, Marathon, Halo, Oni, so on

[chrome fog]

Fun fact Xur is actively dissolving because the Nine don’t know how to create life good

[willow dagger]

Oh so the nine is a group of the first beings? Do we know what they look like? Do their faces wiggle?!

[chrome fog]

Him cells no wanna stay together

[trim grotto]

It's a link

If you just want the short answer though
||The Nine are... dark matter swirls that formed loops through the gravitational pulls and whirls of the solar system. Through these loops, and through the power of the sentient life within the system, they became sentient. They are the Nine, and they see all within Sol. They made Xûr into what he is today, as their Agent. Also the Emissary. Big blue lady at the end of Prophesy.||

[willow dagger]

Is that why he wiggles

[willow dagger]

Wha- cray

[trim grotto]

They are dark matter, they have no true bodies

[willow dagger]

Same

[chrome fog]

Also unrelated to the Precursors

So not first brings

Beings

Emissary is also a Guardian, Orin

But partially hacked

Hijacked

Swipe type weird

[willow dagger]

Are you the Australian?

[chrome fog]

I’m Floridian

[willow dagger]

Oh, I’m sorry

[fresh zephyr]

RIP

[chrome fog]

I am just bad at sleep good

[willow dagger]

Clearly, I am on the west coast and this is late for me!

[chrome fog]

Also cut my fingies making this with the tools I had

[willow dagger]

Hey ummm do you have time to do a lore story in a vc?🥹

[fresh zephyr]

I miss actually sleeping at night

Night shift is fun

[willow dagger]

I have been nocturnal most of my life! I find I am more creative at night, and get work done more efficiently at night too

[fresh zephyr]

I was that way when I was younger

But it gets harder the older you get.

[trim grotto]

tomorrow i do

[willow dagger]

Oh at around this time?

[broken relic]

outside of development reasons, would there have any canonical possibility of an eliksni lightbearer

[mental meadow]

Are they actually rebuilding the old tower or have we abandoned it

[sick yew]

Afaik nah should very well be possible

[gentle geyser]

Honestly other than having to create a story around it Id say the reason currently is they would have to put development time into making the classes for them, and if they do the Eliksni, they have to do the cabal at some point, both of which would have to have stories or dlcs

[lofty badge]

if a ghost decided to ress one

[eager trout]

...there's a lady at the end of Prophesy?

[ember storm]

If they had been rebuilding it, I wouldn’t imagine it’d have been easy for a small army of fallen to just set up shop and tear their way into the vaults

[ember storm]

https://preview.redd.it/n40z41fyz77b1.jpg?auto=webp&s=6a94947203ecb6d737f8ccd7a31e297de2d211d6

[eager trout]

Huh

How did I miss that-?

How secretive are the Hidden?

[ember storm]

I mean basically everybody knows they exist

just not who’s a proper member

but then WQ did the funny thing and had all the npcs wear matching uniforms

so

[eager trout]

Would the Hidden keep a document about one of their members?

[ember storm]

they know who they are and Ikora knows who they are

that’s enough

in their private chats they have id numbers but everyone they talk about also has an id

we’re listed in their internal database as “VIP #2014”

[eager trout]

Wait, is that a reference to the year of release?

[ember storm]

yes

Oryx is also listed as 2015

[eager trout]

When you think about it, from the Hidden's point of view, The Guardian is just some random Guardian who somehow managed to beat some of the most dangerous enemies, and also got called by the Darkness itself (or the Witness)

[jagged badge]

One Hidden agent, Aunor Mahal, was suspicious of us at one point and even investigated us for the death of Cayde-6

Before concluding we were innocent ofc

[eager trout]

Only innocent of that specific crime

Chat, would it be possible to modify an Exo for stuff like hidden compartments (self-modification) or did Clovis Bray put countermeasures against that?

[blazing wasp]

It would probably mess with DER

[eager trout]

With what

[blazing wasp]

Disassociative Exomind Rejection

The subconscious of the exo needs to constantly be tricked into thinking its human

[eager trout]

Would that affect a Guardian though?

[blazing wasp]

If it does, you die

[blazing wasp]

No

[eager trout]

Then there's no problem

[blazing wasp]

Good luck doing that though

Lack of avaliable resources

[eager trout]

Can't require much to just make a few small hidden compartments

[ember storm]

Well you’d also have to consider a ghost would just heal that

Exo or not those are injuries

You would feel the exact pain of having a cavity carved into your body

[fresh zephyr]

DER is a mental issue, not physical, so a Ghost couldn't fix them since they can't handle things like that. So if someone made a modern Exo without all the needed touches, and they somehow got rezzed by a Ghost, they'd still be screwed.

[eager trout]

Ok uh....what if the Exo frame was originally made with hidden compartments?

[final stream]

Wait is stasis low risk to use

Can anyone just use darkness subclasses

Because Zavala was using it after losing his ghost

[ember storm]

It wasn’t

[ember storm]

no, it requires training and mental fortitude

remember how Eramis ended the BL campaign

Zavala has been around for like a thousand years though so it’s not like he’s clumsy

[fresh zephyr]

Eh closer to a few hundred

He was rezzed around the time the City got started

But yeah

Old enough to be good

[eager trout]

The other day I noticed Fynch made grafitti

Can Exos change their lights' color?

[fresh zephyr]

Don't see why they couldn't mod themselves how they like, as long as they have the tools and parts.

[eager trout]

It would be like performing surgery on yourself

[final stream]

Can anyone just use Stasis

[trim grotto]

Yes, should you learn to control it.

[fresh zephyr]

Any human or human-adjacent, anyways

[final stream]

Do guardians age after losing their light

[fresh zephyr]

Maybe?

They should, but most of the time they don't seem to survive long enough to tell

[trim grotto]

We have no solid evidence either way.
Eris hasn't, but she's also a spooky wish making Hive magic wielding outlier.

[final stream]

Do awoken age?

[trim grotto]

Very slowly, but yes.

[final stream]

Is it possible to tell? Mara is still around

[trim grotto]

Well, the Distributary Awoken don't age. They all began to age after leaving it.

So it'd be from the early-mid Dark Ages to now

[fresh zephyr]

Mara and Crow are probably outliers, too.

Since Mara has her whole weird thing going, and Crow has his connection to her.

[gentle geyser]

Crow being a guardian is also the big outlier lmao

[split aurora]

I might be misunderstanding the lore, but since we killed the witness, shouldn't we get the planets he took back in Sol?

I guess what Im asking is there a lore reason titan, io, mercury, the reef, etc, are not back. Or are we just going with the big obvious reason that is bungie hasnt unvaulted them yet?

[gentle geyser]

We’ve had access to the planet room already, if anything killing the witness might’ve just locked them away permanently

[split aurora]

Interesting, thank you

[ember storm]

Killing the master doesn’t automatically revert taken things

The planets were literally Taken

[gentle geyser]

Also if the planets are gone that gives more of a valid reason for us to leave the solar system

[ember storm]

until someone else wrestles control of the power to the downright absurd extent the witness did and decides to return them, we won’t get them back

[gentle geyser]

Can’t wait for venus raid where we fight kelgorath the taken king

[ancient drum]

Your Ghost scans the dusty terminal, the ship it once belonged to must have seen better days. Amazingly, one entry remains intact after all this time.
"Guardian!" your Ghost chirps. "Check this out! It's a message, for someone called 'Paladin Oran', it reads: Harmonic acceleration protocol predictably yielded. Background interference ruined the hydrogen distribution array. Yasmin's team observed massive explosion."
"Huh, I wonder what that was about." your Ghost wonders out loud, spinning in place as their iris illuminates the surface of your helmet.

[dim minnow]

"Happy Birthday Tome"

[compact sky]

wouldn't they still be technically dead, though? So no DER eitherway?

[compact sky]

The reason why exos dont have alot of extra features is because it messes with their identity, the mind stops recognizing the exo body as their body which iirc becomes extremely painful for them both physically and mentally. That's also why alot of exos are fashioned to be more personal so DER doesn't occur

[compact sky]

there's also the fact that an exo body is similar to a human or awoken body. Exos are made to feel pain, eat, and sleep to prevent DER. It'd be like carving holes into your own body, which is very painful.

[compact sky]

Traveler also increased the age span by alot so it'd be a long time to see any aging

[daring iris]

watched a few videos about the raid lore and something that bothers me is that so many people are discussing the winnower and the gardener as if they're like entities that really exist and have goals that influenced the witness

I think people missed the metaphor in the dialogue from encounters 2-3

even in unveiling, written from the perspective of the witness, it outright states that the winnower and gardner aren't beings but inevitable principles of the universe

[slim elk]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/nacre

About that...
The Winnower left you a message

[daring iris]

are you implying this entry was written by the winnower

[slim elk]

Yes

[daring iris]

but what about other entities we know of that also preached "the winnower's" message

the witness, the veil

[slim elk]

Witness is dead

[daring iris]

this ship came out prior to final shape though didnt it

[slim elk]

And it clearly references the fact in this entry.

Nope.
You haven't looked at it at all have you?

[daring iris]

nah not really I havent seen anyone mention it before

[slim elk]

That's because it dropped this week

[daring iris]

ohh

makes sense

[slim elk]

So yes.
This hard confirms the Winnower exists.. and made contact with us before

[daring iris]

I still dont agree with that, it's written in the exact same witness-winnower perspective that all of unveiling was written in

[slim elk]

What's your explanation then lol

Witness is dead.

This ship released after its death and references that event in the lore

[little gorge]

unveiling was clearly not written from the witness' persoective

or at least the witness is not the narrator

[sleek matrix]

I wouldn't trust unveiling

It may have some truth but it also has lies

[slim elk]

Yep.
It's clearly biased

[sleek matrix]

And we don't know who exactly wrote it

It's more of religious text if anything

[daring iris]

the witness isn't the first witness-aligned entity to feed us lore entires post mortem

the veil, like the traveler, seems to contain the memories of all the entities its helped merge (how maya sundaresh learned of the final shape)

it could have also been pre-recorded prior to its defeat for all we know

[little gorge]

yes

but also the narrator of it isn't the witness

[slim elk]

The only matter I'll state with certainty here is Nacre proves there's a Winnower out there

[little gorge]

maybe the witness wrote it, but it's not the narrator

[sleek matrix]

Yes

Just like there is a Gardner

[slim elk]

Just gotta convince Two there denying the evidence right in front of them lol

[daring iris]

I think its wrong to read it as a savathun-esque "two truths and two lies" narrative, it reads way more like a parable/religious origin myth (hence the repeated references to historical theologians)

[sleek matrix]

It's clear the Gardner made the traveler to break the rules of the game and then the winnower veil was used to make the witness

We're both forged out of gods

Like the witness said

But its still up to us to choose how we carve the shape

The winnower existing I don't think it means he be some sort of boss thou

Or a villian

The universe can't exist without light or darkness both exist as a balance

[slim elk]

Going by the tab it seems it's view points fits the most with Sword Logic

[sleek matrix]

Yes

The winnower is defo more towards sword logic

[daring iris]

I disagree with this I don't think the traveler or the veil were made by anyone or with any intended purpose

its not directly stated anywhere

[sleek matrix]

There tools

[slim elk]

I do also have a suspicion that connects back to the Wager.

Compare and Contrast the Winnower and Gardener
Gardener absolutely refuses to communicate, but clearly acts.
Winnower is happy to talk and chat.. but doesn't do anything

Sounds like an established ruleset

[daring iris]

they just formed out of the nature of the light and dark in the universe similar to the worm gods, ahamkara etc

[sleek matrix]

Yea that's because the Gardner doesn't wanna enforce a will upon us

Where as the winnower will happily chat and try to infulence

His talks with oryx show that

[versed rapids]

Hello can someone carry me on iconolsm

Plss

[sleek matrix]

When they used a orge to commune with the deep

I dont think they were talking to the witness

[slim elk]

It does have a clear directive though.
Self-preservation at all costs. Even if it means abandoning species
(See Savathun trying to hide it in her throne world and leaving humanity to burn)

[sleek matrix]

Yea but say if we wanna help the traveler it take the help

And it will also help us by giving us powers to achieve that

It's more of a mutual relationship

[slim elk]

I do have bit more outlandish theory regarding Elsie

Maybe was the Winnower keeping her in that deathloop. The Gardener doesn't do memories well.

[sleek matrix]

And now with the witness defeat the traveler can heal and rest and we can go off and do our own thing

[daring iris]

yeah the traveler and the veil both have directives, they're entities like everything else in the universe, but the winnower and gardener are just concepts until explicitly proven otherwise imo

[sleek matrix]

Yea it seems like the traveler didn't really understand much aswell

In terms of remembering it's just as confused and trying to work things out

[daring iris]

the witness chose to take the mantle of the winnower, I think that ship lore entry is trying to convince us that others like maya sundaresh will just take its place

[sleek matrix]

The winnower is not a concept thou

[slim elk]

I do ask what you think of the multiple entries referring to the Traveler as the Gardener

[jagged badge]

Tbf, Elsie didn’t remember most of her timelines at the beginning. She had to find a way to retain her memories throughout

[sleek matrix]

We know it exists

[jagged badge]

I’m pretty sure it’s the Pouka who helps her remember?

[daring iris]

the only civilization that calls the traveler the gardener is the witness precursors though right?

[slim elk]

Yeah
Still is a bit unexplained

[sleek matrix]

That's perception

They see it as Gardner because it can give life

Each civilisation calls the traveler a different name

[slim elk]

Rasputin disagrees with you

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-mysteries#ghost-fragments

[daring iris]

I'm tempted to write this off as coincidence because rasputin calls it a gardener (generic) but the witness names it "the Gardener"

that is strange though I agree

[slim elk]

Yeah.
But then you constant connections everywhere

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/pilgrimage-garden-of-esila-dead-tree?highlight=gardener

At bare mimimum you have to agree Gardener is associated with Traveler

[sleek matrix]

100%

Just like the veil is associated with the winnower

There is a link

[daring iris]

well yeah the gardener is associated with the traveler in the same way the witness is associated with the winnower

[ember storm]

doesn’t the witness just call it the gardener

[slim elk]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/lumina?highlight=gardener

[daring iris]

imo they're roles in the "game"

[sleek matrix]

We kept calling the witness winnower but the devs added that dialogue by purpose

[slim elk]

I do suspect the Winnower will make itself blatantly known in Heresy

The catalyst to "shake up the dynamics of the Hive Gods" Bungie was talking about

(Cause uhh.. their relationship has been rather drastically altered over the past few years already lol)

[kindred plume]

random question, but how did Zavala get to earth?

[jagged badge]

Ship

[kindred plume]

like as far as i know he was one of the first guardians, hes been around since like before people were back to building houses after the great fall, but hes an awoken, they're humans who only became that way after living in the ascendant plane

so did he fly to earth after the great fall and die somehow?

[jagged badge]

The Distributary, not the Ascendant Plane

Also I don’t believe we know whether Zavala was originally a human, whether he was born as an Awoken in the Distributary or even Reefborn

But point is, when the Awoken under Mara returned to Sol, some wished to return to Earth to help, so they set out

Not everyone made it, hence Awoken Guardians

[kindred plume]

oooh

so zavala was a part of the crew who dcided to help humans in the dark age, somehow not surprising that he was that kind of person even before his reawakening

[jagged badge]

https://youtu.be/xI5poBxV_-A?si=oR23JXZl0F5ZZsVr

The start of this is relevant here

[chrome fog]

A “game” that only described in a book the Witness gave us

[kindred plume]

i actually had completely forgotton about the Distributary

thats cool though, glad i saw that

[patent swallow]

With Bungo kinda doubling down on the fact that the winnower is real, I'm curious how they're gonna end this whole thing. The nature of Destiny being a live service game is making me question where bungo is gonna take the story from here on, because everything needs to reach a massive conclusion at the end right? They can't just "end" destiny, anyone have any theories on how bungie is gonna keep the story moving forward?

[chrome fog]

Just dealing with stuff

Like

The threats don’t need to constantly escalate

[earnest minnow]

What are the ghosts that keep haunting Eris?

[jagged badge]

They were Nightmares of her fireteam who perished (or didn’t) when they tried to assassinate Crota

Basically they are memory given form by Darkness. Not necessarily ghosts of people passed (as Toland and Omar live yet still they had Nightmares that tormented Eris)

[earnest minnow]

And the other ones? Like the ones that are just floating around the moon and a few lost sectors

Do we know who these people are or are they "haunting" these places?

[jagged badge]

Most of them are unnamed Nightmares. General apparitions or phantoms of Guardians who’ve passed and/or experienced immense trauma in those locations

[earnest minnow]

is there a lore explanation for some of them being quest givers too?

Can we "put them to rest", so to speak?

I hope the afterlife terminology isn't entirely misplaced

[jagged badge]

Well

It’s not exactly right as Nightmares aren’t literally ghosts of people. But Season of the Haunted did show that Nightmares could be dispelled or even turned into Memories by dealing with the associated trauma or whatever

Crow, Zavala and Caiatl were haunted by specific Nightmares due to their own regrets, shame and trauma, and only be dealing with it could they deal with the Nightmare

[earnest minnow]

man would I love to be able to play that story ( ._.)

last question, is there a specific reason for why there are so many Nightmares on the Moon? Is it because of the hellmouth, i.e. just simply because a lot of people died there, or is it something else about the place?

[ruby cedar]

Hey ya! I am trying to do Destinys 2 lore in order but cant find any story recaps on Season of the lost. Anyone has any idea?

[jagged badge]

Well, the presence of the Lunar Pyramid on the Moon definitely helps, but it’s because of the Great Disaster. The Vanguard led thousands and thousands of Guardians in an all-out assault on the Hive in our second conflict with them and unfortunately we were woefully unprepared

The Hive, and Crota specifically, killed very many Guardians

[jagged badge]

I can cook up a little summary sure!

[earnest minnow]

Was that something that happened in one of the two games, or is that lore?

[ruby cedar]

Aww thats nice but i meant more like a lore video

[jagged badge]

Lore. The Great Disaster happened some centuries before our rebirth in the Light

[ruby cedar]

Dont want you to write it all out x

[jagged badge]

Oh right, I have no idea then. I don’t watch a lot of lore videos I’m afraid

[earnest minnow]

Gotcha. Thank you so much for all this insight!

[jagged badge]

It’s really no trouble to me

[ruby cedar]

ah i was looking for a lore video maybe that has gameplay / story mission play of the lore

you can throw names around but i will never recognise them in game then xD

[jagged badge]

Season of the Lost begins with us heading to the Dreaming City to bring Osiris back to the Last City after his involvement the ending of Season of the Splicer where he helped Lakshmi build a Vex gate within the City. Turns out Osiris was actually Savathûn in disguise as him, and she reveals herself.

We also discover that Savathûn has made a deal with Mara Sov, as she wants to be exorcised from her worm before it consumes her. Mara believes she’ll get a solution to the Dreaming City’s curse out of Savathûn, and also believes she’ll be able to kill her once Savathûn’s worm is removed.

In order to excise (exorcise?) the worm, we need to recover Mara’s Techeuns who are lost across the Ascendant Plane.

Crow helps out during this season, but this causes friction with Petra Venj due to his past as Uldren Sov, which Crow doesn’t know about at this point. Until he seeks answers from Savathûn who restores Uldren’s memories to Crow, causing Crow to leave the mission in shame, knowing all the bad his past life did.

When we finally have all the Techeuns and are able to perform the ritual, Savathûn is able to escape. However she does return the real Osiris to us (although he’s in a comatose state)

That is what I remember anyway

I’m sure there’s some nitty gritty details I’ve missed but

[ruby cedar]

Thank you. I dont know anything about the Dreaming Citys curse

Or Who Mara is / and what is the worm 😦

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17R6ecjJVTE&t=136s

i found this video also but.. its talks about the final mission 😦

[ruby cedar]

also this is quite impressive ❤️

[jagged badge]

Savathûn made a deal with a wish-dragon, Riven, that resulted in the Dreaming City being cursed. A Taken corruption would grow week by week but then it would reset in an eternal time loop, with every Awoken who chose to stay within forced to live out the same events over and over. But if they chose to leave they would give up the city and allow the enemy to get their hands on very important and powerful Awoken secrets. This was ultimately designed by Savathûn to generate infinite tribute to feed the worm parasite within her that gave her her strength, as all Hive have.

Unfortunately it didn’t work for long as Savathûn’s worm’s hunger outgrew even the Curse. Which is why Savathûn turned to the Light instead, and why she made the deal to have her worm excised

Ah it was exorcised

[ruby cedar]

At this point do we know what the worm actually is

(no spoilers for the next season xpacs

I meant at the point of season of the lost

[ember storm]

something that all hive have

they ingest a worm parasite given to them by their gods in order to deliver them tribute

[ruby cedar]

Thank you for this again ❤️

[ember storm]

the worms give them power in return, but failing to keep it satiated results in their worms consuming their host instead

Savathun and her siblings were no different in this, but Savathun had repeatedly tried bypassing this tribute system (not out of any moral principle, she just didn’t want to bother with it)

[ruby cedar]

Ah bet where does the worm comes from?

Is it similar to our ghosts in a way

?

[ember storm]

no

the worms are just born from their gods and kept around for new hive spawns to ingest

ghosts were a one-time deal, there’s a limited amount, and the traveler asks nothing in return

[split aurora]

is there a lore reason for all the horse statues and symbolism? Seeing it even more than usual

[tender token]

someone at bungie prolly likes horses

[ember storm]

in pyramids, no not really

xur stuff is just xur stuff because of dares of eternity

[ruby cedar]

Ah oki noted.

Destinys story is so interest but man as a new player

[split aurora]

Neat

[ruby cedar]

not being able to play the story in order...

its so annoying and confusing

to understand or care / be excited for any character and things mentioned 😦

[tender token]

Yea, the story feels like its been written by to many people as well honestly. When I first started out everything pointed to the darkness as being bad. Now its like nah its all good now. I still don't understand why Shin Malphur was hunting down guardians using the darkness. I just think itw as the story getting all messed up.

[ember storm]

well that’s what happens when there’s two games and a bunch of dlc released in the span of 10 years

[ember storm]

light and darkness can equally be used for good and bad

[ruby cedar]

yeah but if they let us replay at least the main story of every season.. it would at least MAKE some sense

[ember storm]

Shin Malphur was specifically targeting those who used both for selfish, evil reasons

then there’s zealots like Shayura who just ruthlessly hunted down anyone associated with darkness at all

[tender token]

Yea I felt in the text he was only targetting the Darkness uses. So it made it seem that maybe there wasn't free will tied to the darkness like there was for the light.

[ember storm]

none of the Dredgens could actually use darkness

[tender token]

Basically i think the game is at a point in the story Darkness and Light are just power with no moral compasses. Its just power and thats it. Nothing else.

[ember storm]

they “aligned” themselves with it

[ember storm]

this point has existed for like 6 years, yeah

[chrome fog]

This was back when the forces of Darkness was a general term for “Evil”; the distinction has evolved more recently

You can track the progression of our regard to Darkness by release

[ember storm]

Forsaken started the big shift with the exact quote “the line between light and dark is thin, do you know where you stand?”

[tender token]

No I understand it has evolved, I was just stating for the longest time I was putting a moral code to darkness and light, but now it.. is just a different way to use power.

[chrome fog]

Yep

[ember storm]

I mean beyond light is definitively where it was stated

light and dark are just powers

anyone could use them for anything

[tender token]

See you could take that line though, and say its easy to step to the light or darkness, but know which way meaning the light.

[chrome fog]

And then Lightfall spells it out for anyone who didn’t get the memo

[tender token]

But yea i agree with the narrative now is saying for sure darkness and light is just tools to be used.

[chrome fog]

The moralistic component was just a symptom of the Witness exerting it’s will through the Darkness, which allows it’s malicious intent spill into anyone else who accessed the Darkness

Not to mention, it has been parading as “The Darkness” (specifically, The Voice in The Darkness)

[tender token]

Yea because no one ever created light and dark im assuming. Its just always there for those that wish to take it. So the Witness somehow gets a hold of darkness and parades around giving darkness a bad name.

[ruby cedar]

How do I start the Witch Queen Xpac?

[jagged badge]

There’s the mission Arrival on Savathûn’s Throne World

[ruby cedar]

Ah i go straight there

oki

so it starts just like that Savathuns ship appears

why were we in the deserty place

*mars xD

What does it mean "re appearance of Mars"?

Was it gone?

[jagged badge]

Yes

In Season of Arrivals, the Black Fleet showed up in the Solar system, looming specifically over Mars, Mercury, Titan and Io. All four were Taken

Mars returns very shortly before the beginning of Witch Queen as you’ve seen

[fresh zephyr]

Good evening, y'all! Quick question for y'all, but do we have any info on the identity of the Herald of Finality from Salvation's Edge?

[ruby cedar]

Wow when they meant hard mode

they didnt joke LMAO

[empty fern]

Probably just another taken made by the witness, like the ogre boss in warlords ruin (no it’s not taniks)

[fresh zephyr]

Dang 😔

[ruby cedar]

Lmao just got shot out of a giant cannon 😄

Savathuns ship is awesome! looks like somethng from alien / scorn

[paper gorge]

How many times have we fought tanks?

Taniks

[ember storm]

personally, three

[broken relic]

Guarantee you the second we get Eliksni lightbearers we’re gonna have to fight Taniks, the Risen

[chrome fog]

I think it’d be funnier if he rezzed and he was extremely ok to be around

[broken relic]

No he just randomly appears in the crucible

[chrome fog]

Like now we just gotta hang around with the guy that killed Andal Brask

[eager trout]

For that he'd need to die first

And he never dies

[broken relic]

Taniks always dies he just always comes back

[fresh zephyr]

Taniks just becomes the new Fikrul

[eager trout]

The question is, if a Ghost revives him, will he be full Eliksni, full robot, or cyborg?

Are the perks that give bouncing, piercing, and increased knockback rounds too much to have in a single exotic? (Not at the same time)

[mental meadow]

How old is cayde

As a guardian

Was he ressed quite early on or?

[timber elk]

Idk how specific it is but it would've been some time shortly after the vex attacked at the deep stone crypt. (Maybe?)

He was security for maya sunderesh at some point

[jagged badge]

No

The Vex-Exo war happened before the Collapse. And any Exo Guardian couldn’t have died on Europa because no one was able to go to Europa or even knew anything was even there until Beyond Light really

[empty fern]

There was a vex exo war?

[dim minnow]

on Europa not long before the Collapse

Clovis allowed the Vex to create a portal on Europa so he could get radiolaria for his alkahest

he would also send expeditions through the portal

eventually, the Vex would storm Europa from the portal

[shadow crypt]

is this what elsie was talking about in the glassway strike

something about Clovis opening a portal

[dim minnow]

yes, the Vex came from there

[ember storm]

What do you think killed banshee 42 times

[empty fern]

41 clovises

[remote sky]

It's obvious the symbol on crows new cloak has significance. Do we know what, though?

[ember storm]

pretty sure it’s just a basic guardian symbol

[empty fern]

The hunter one?

[remote sky]

No no, right next to it. On the front of his shoulder

The XP shit you equip for ghost

[chrome fog]

It's also the symbol when you level up

And for XP bonus

[full belfry]

Did the vex create the black heart? or was it just always there and thats when they decied to worship it?

[trim grotto]

Actually, the post-campaign of Lightfall has a mission that answers this very question.

Would you prefer to learn from it, or I?

[ember storm]

the world may never know

[full belfry]

sorry didnt hear the ping, I would like to learn it from you please

[empty fern]

Too late

Get to playing lightfall

[chrome fog]

The short answer is: it is a failed copy of the Veil, I think the Witness made it, and it gifted the Black Heart to the Vex to study

It's also why some of the Vex are willing to help out the Witness, as it was a reliable source to get paracausal energy from, which helped in their efforts to try and harness it for their own ends, as they are incapable of fully grasping paracausality on their own on account of their mind process being vastly different from conventional thinking

They're a weird not-hivemind-but-yes-connected-mind, and they think solely on literal simulation of a scenario in order to achieve their intended goal, which is usually to fully assimilate their target into the Vex Network for them to be studied

[full belfry]

thank you

[chrome fog]

No problem

[ember storm]

correction, the witness just left them the veiled statue like it left Clarity for Clovis, and the sol divisive just had a field day with it

the vex were solely responsible for the creation of the black heart, whether it was an intentional outcome or an unintentional bonus on the witness’ part is unknown

[shadow crypt]

what happened to the cabals home world

Toronto

wtf

torobotl

or however it’s spelled

[ember storm]

Burnt to ashes by Xivu arath

It would’ve been one thing for her armies to invade from space, but a direct portal was opening in the middle of the capital city

[shadow crypt]

oh dang

[ember storm]

Aside from the cabal already stuck in the solar system, the only survivors were those in Caiatl’s ships

[trim grotto]

shoutout to the best lore interaction

"What?" the drone said.

"Felspring," Felwinter said. "That's your name."

They stared at each other.

"Are you serious?" the drone said. "Felspring?"

Felwinter gazed past her. Silence again.

"Fine," said Felspring.```

[gritty sphinx]

was the final shape the friends we made along the way

[outer dragon]

The Cabal are Canadian confirmed!!?!?!?!!?

[willow dagger]

do gaurdians ever get colds?

[trim grotto]

nay

[willow dagger]

Ah yes, the Mael. Salutations, the blue has a wicked cold or Covid idk

[odd oyster]

it’s probably been said a thousand times before but I cannot get over how narratively compelling the veiled statues being dissenters is

especially how cleanly it answers the mystery of beyond light

[raw hazel]

idk it's pretty chilly on europa

[trim grotto]

Beyond Light? It doesn't really affect anything from that.

If you're referring to Stasis, the Witness itself sent us there to claim Stasis, as a temptation, a corruption, a gift. If not for Drifter and Shin's preparation, and Elsie's tutoring, we'd have succumbed to its hold.

[odd oyster]

my first words in this channel and I speak nonsense 😂

my interpretation was that the veiled statue on Europa was a dissenting voice — is that not the case?

[fresh zephyr]

It is, but the Witness can still speak through the Statues when it wants.

Because they are a part of it and are a source of Darkness that it can use for it's method of communication.

[trim grotto]

Prior to Final Shape, the statues were all entirely under its command. The statue on Europa in the Crypt, for example, was there for twenty years before Clovis was sent there by the K1 Anomaly, through which the Witness spoke.

[odd oyster]

i have just remembered the part where the darkness speaks through the ghost

aehhhhh now I feel sheepish

[trim grotto]

'tis the place to learn, and I am more than happy to teach

[willow dagger]

Sheepish? Alas!

So when failsafe said Nessus was “sentient”… I thought it was a planet?

What is Nessus ?

[odd oyster]

nessus is a machine world right?

ship of theseus type situation, if you replace everything with vex structures, is it still the same planet, I think?

[fresh zephyr]

When the Vex infect things, they really infect things. Most of the planet is just Vex machinery at this point, yeah. I think back in Vanilla D2 Failsafe said that somewhere around...99% of Nessus was Vex now.

[odd oyster]

now I wanna know if that affected how the planet orbits

[fresh zephyr]

The Vex can basically make it move around if they want

[odd oyster]

or like does that 99% include the core of the planet

[fresh zephyr]

That's how the Exodus Black crashed on it in the first place because it was somewhere it wasn't supposed to be, they got close to it, then the Vex got them.

[trim grotto]

Fun fact: Nessus isn't actually a planet, but a centaur.

[odd oyster]

[trim grotto]

The Vex have machinoformed it severely

[trim grotto]

Not like, a creature with a horse body. It's... here, let me quote wikipedia.
In planetary astronomy, a centaur is a small Solar System body that orbits the Sun between Jupiter and Neptune and crosses the orbits of one or more of the giant planets.

[odd oyster]

Ohhh yeah makes sense

[mental meadow]

Why does crow have a massive flaming waraxe as a super

[odd oyster]

why don’t you

[mental meadow]

:(

Haven't got that far in the skill tree yet

[odd oyster]

hey what exactly is a psion

[trim grotto]

Saladin gifted his Iron Lord axe to Crow during Season of the... Risen, I think.
Crow either learned to form it from Light, or pulled a Last Word and summoned it.

[trim grotto]

Psions were a race subjugated by the Cabal Empire.

Shortly after the destruction of Torobatl, newly coronated Empress Caiatl decreed that the Psion people were now a free people, and could choose to leave or stay with the empire as full citizens.

[mental meadow]

Ah I see
Wish us hunters could also make use of that

[willow dagger]

Pls explain

If it isn’t a planet why is its explanation… planety?

[dim minnow]

It is referring to the destination's classification as a Celestial body

Nessus is classified as a centaur which means it is a giant ball of ice

At least it is supposed to

[willow dagger]

Oh, thanks for the answer. I cannot contain my disappointment that you are not the original Orange, but an orange nonetheless

[fresh zephyr]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1dkwgqi/small_thing_confirmed_about_the_end_credits/

....Huh

So the Hive Ghost we saw with Eris and Drifter wasn't Immaru but Fynch.

[dusky matrix]

What is void enery/light?

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/SXio7_g1g0I?si=Ap73AmnO0sR5WYQU

Try this on for size

[empty fern]

Moment

[trim grotto]

Our Light manifests in different forms. Void is one of those manifestations, though like Arc and Solar, Void is not inherently Light.

[willow dagger]

It’s interesting bc to me void looks like a darkness subclass and strand looks like a light subclass

[jagged badge]

Void was actually distrusted for ages in universe because of that sorta perception

[willow dagger]

Oh! A blue fren! Welcome

[fresh zephyr]

I remember the Drifter entry about that. Of course, he also says he prefers Solar cause it's harder to cook with Void since it's Drifter.

[winter edge]

Is the sheild of light in the FS campaign the same one as the Aegis?

[jagged badge]

It’s probably not exactly the same but designed in the image of it by the Traveler

The shield of Light we get is directly a gift from the Traveler every time to aid us in defeating our enemies. And because the Pale Heart is so focused on manifesting memory, it makes sense to manifest it based on our memory of a functionally similar thing

[broken relic]

Have we heard from Shiro-4 lately

[empty fern]

Hah no

We did get his sidearm exotic ornament but that was a few seasons ago

[broken relic]

dang it

[ruby cedar]

just reached Witch Queen and Hive can use Light now which is nutts! What was the reaction back then when that was revealed

must have been so awesome

I really hope she didnt "steal" the light but it is more complex than that

[ember storm]

Kinda a lot of “what the fuck” because it was just revealed in a teaser trailer without gameplay

like Cayde’s death

[ruby cedar]

like good what the fuck or people be mad?

[fast tapir]

a good one

[ruby cedar]

oooooh u get to shape a weapon 😮

[hallow fulcrum]

Lore wise what if the diffrence between light and dark and their powers

[ember storm]

they differ in fundamental principles in a few ways

the purest forms of light and darkness are intrinsically tied to life and death

light also has a primary focus on physical aspects of reality while darkness has been tied to mental

[hallow fulcrum]

One diffrence I do think Is for light it's given to those who sacrificed their life like guardians , savathun while darkness when someone is defeated their own darkness powers overtakes them , think eramis , or rhulk

[hallow fulcrum]

Is that what this is the life and death thing ?

[ember storm]

also not particularly accurate

there is zero prior things you have to fulfill to be resurrected by a ghost

the guardian tenants are representative of what the traveler hopes for, but they’re not required by any means

we literally got an actual infant baby resurrected once, and mortal Ana Bray was far from selfless

[hallow fulcrum]

Still I don't think anyone who is alive ever got light , light was only given after someone died

[ember storm]

that’s just the nature of how ghosts work

but you’re right in the idea that light is given, while darkness has to be taken

[hallow fulcrum]

But why are enemies who use darkness get consumed by it ,eramis , rhulk , calus etc one they lose

Not strong enough ?

[ember storm]

not really

Rhulk, Calus, and dread just explode into darkness when they die

It’s not because they’re not strong enough or whatever

[blazing wasp]

Rhulk didn't get "consumed" by it

[hallow fulcrum]

A sort of tree grew didn't it

[ember storm]

The witness empowers them with darkness and it just spills out when they’re killed

that’s not them being “unworthy” or anything

[blazing wasp]

I believe I jokingly made a halfway accurate joke by referring the bosses in metal gear 3

[ember storm]

as for Eramis, it was sorta due to her recklessness

but it was a purely technological fault

if she paid attention to the gear she was using, she’d have noticed her stasis gauntlet was bugging out

Darkness can be used perfectly fine if one has the proper training to do so

[hallow fulcrum]

I think there is still to know about paracausality , it's like we know glimpses but nothing connects yet

[ember storm]

Paracausality as a whole is just describing all these magical forces

they’re not meant to connect

it’s just a blanket term

Gravity pulling debris together to form a planet is causal, there’s clear scientific cause/effect

Paracausality is a magic space dragon granting wishes, or some nerd in a robe snapping their fingers and summoning a miniature sun

there is no link to cause or effect

it’s just ‘cause

[blazing wasp]

Paracausality is basically just sidestepping some "cause" to gain a desired effect, messing with cause and effect

Nuclear fusion is done just like that, sometimes literally with the snap of a finger

Rather than all that atom and science bullshit

[blazing wasp]

(Specifically incinerator snap)

[hallow fulcrum]

But it still must follow some logic , one which is parallel to logic of our universe and all things in yet , yet a logic mone the less

[trim grotto]

howdy friends
what's the topic of the day

[blazing wasp]

Paracausality

[blazing wasp]

It follows a logic and that logic is simply sidestepping the cause in cause and effect (right, maelstrom? Or am I stupid)

[trim grotto]

Paracausality is literally parallel causality
It is cause to effect, but through a system outside of physics and causal forces as we know it
Acausality would be effect without cause

[blazing wasp]

I guess sidestepping isn't the right word to use

[hallow fulcrum]

Yes that is the case but there must be some other rules governing paracausality , cause traveller does not have infinite power nor does darkness , their powers may not be a part of our own universe per say but they do follow some rules as it seems to me , they are too consistent and well working within our universe not to , they just have nothing to do with our universe rules but they must follow rules, if we ever get to know what , that would be intresting

[blazing wasp]

We know the rules they've been told to us quite a lot

Wrong formula, right answer

[hallow fulcrum]

If we could find the right formula , all possible powers and maybe even more possibilities from light and darkness would be revealed instantly , makes me wonder how exactly did precursors to witness found out about veil from traveller , they were linked they said in what way linked , and if they were at one point same why were they at diffrent parts of universe

[blazing wasp]

I think you severely misunderstood that

We can find the right formula

That's causality.

Causality is right formula right answer, 2+2=4

Paracausality is like if we changed the twos, maybe even replaced it with "apple" and still got 4

It follows a logic but a logic that explicitly gives zero shits about known laws of the universe

[ember storm]

Paracausality is not a mystery

It’s not something that needs to be figured out

[blazing wasp]

It used to be

But that was years ago

[ember storm]

These things are definitively not natural sciences

[hallow fulcrum]

Look even if in paracausality 2+2 = something that something must be defined and must be same cause powers of light and dark are pretty consistent , we don't have a bit of power sometimes and infinite powers other times thay do follow some other logic from our universe but they must follow a logic , it may not be logical to us in the slightest but it must follow logic does that make sense

[blazing wasp]

It follows a logix

Logic

I've explained that

And you've misunderstood it

Because paracausality isn't simply "2+2 is something new, not 4"

It's not the cause having different effects

It's just changing the cause, sometimes simply sheer force of will

It's not infinite power, no

Paracausal energy is a thing

Hell, paracausal batteries are a thing, something the awoken use a lot

We've even picked one up and carried it

[trim grotto]

We pump paracausal energy through the Last City Wall.

Literally through pipes

[blazing wasp]

Paracausality is, for the sake of simplicity, just magic.

[blazing wasp]

Didn't know the pipe part

Makes sense, but also really funny

[hallow fulcrum]

So paracausality is its own system which works in diffrent ways which are well defined I think that's the statement that makes most sense

Systems way diffrent from laws of physics but defined consistent systems

[blazing wasp]

I'm just gonna make maelstrom take over

[trim grotto]

Depends on the paracausality in question. We've been learning more about the natures of both Light and Dark consistently for years now. Darkness and its connection to the mind and memory was something we really began to delve into during Witch Queen, for example.

[blazing wasp]

cause i gotta go do work shit (even if its been 9 hours sinec it started, it ends in 4)

[hallow fulcrum]

Well considering everything we know let me try to sum it up
Light is physical power
Darkness is consciousness powers
These powers don't follow physics laws
They run parallel to other laws as was said by gardener if I remember correctly in some lore
These powers are well defined , as powers stay consistent and are not infinite , so considering that I am assuming they must have some sort of rules however diffrent they may be from the rules of our universe
Does that make sense

[trim grotto]

That about sums it up; though there's likely always more to learn about paracausal forces.

[chrome fog]

Morning Lore-y

How is people today

[ember storm]

You think it’s weird how eververse has made two shaders based on Cayde’s skin

[fast tapir]

what the hell

i didnt even think about that

[chrome fog]

We got to scalp Cayde twice

[ember storm]

he was so real for that

[gentle geyser]

I love how they still haven’t realized that the final shape armor shader isn’t available yet

[last plover]

Can you no longer get bounties from commander?

[fast tapir]

this is the wrong channel for this but uh

they were replaced by the pathfinder system

[last plover]

Oh oops thx

[viral cedar]

How do vexes become like hydras and fanatics ?

[dim minnow]

hydras are just built like that

fanatics I don't think was ever specified

they originated from the VoG though

so there is that

[viral cedar]

So hydras are just built then the vex is put inside ?

[dim minnow]

Vex milk yeah

[ember storm]

vex chassis are still physically vex parts

the undying cutscene is the only visual we have for the creation process, where it looks like the chassis are constructed and then left for radiolarian cells to collect in their mind core

from that point on, for all intents and purposes it’s just part of the vex

[shadow crypt]

thrall - acolyte then wizard or knight?

depending on gender

[ember storm]

nope

just skill

you could also just be forced to become an ogre if your boss feels like it

[shadow crypt]

Oh

[paper gorge]

How many times has kelgorath come back ?

[wicked fable]

if there is everything in the Traveler, does this mean there is a species that only lives inside the traveler that we can't find outside of the Traveler?

[blazing wasp]

Possible, everything within the traveler is stuff made.

The witness begun making stuff when inside the traveler

[wicked fable]

what was in the Traveler before the witness was in it?

[hallow fulcrum]

Isn't everything inside traveller memory though?

[blazing wasp]

Nothing probably

[wicked fable]

so technically Cayde won his bet

[blazing wasp]

Wdym

[stark fjord]

Random question

[blazing wasp]

Oh

Oh yeah

That

I mean maybe?

We don't know.

[wicked fable]

during the campaign he made a bet with some dude

[jagged badge]

Andal Brask

[wicked fable]

cayde bet nothing, other dude bet on everything

[stark fjord]

But if 3 warlocks do a summoning circle and create a giant nova bomb could they essentially destroy mountains?

[blazing wasp]

One warlock could if its strong enough also nova bombs aren't summoning circle shit

They're not that type of magic

[hallow fulcrum]

Also I just read from quite a few sources that void , arc and solar are just natural phenomenon and light just allows us to use them like in a way magic

[stark fjord]

I get that I’m just saying IF they tried

U think they could

[blazing wasp]

No, because that's not how that works

[stark fjord]

Ok but if

If it worked like that

[blazing wasp]

If it worked like that then yes it would work like that because it works like that

[stark fjord]

☺️

[blazing wasp]

If you want it to be, it is

[stark fjord]

That was basically it

Thank u ❤️❤️❤️

[static bluff]

hi in case you haven't gotten an answer to this yet, there's dialogue between glint and luzaku after you complete the lost sector she's in, where luzaku explains it's because she essentially considers this form/life/resurrection of hers to be fundamentally unique and different than what she's been before, beyond just her physical appearence. so basically by "this one" she's saying "this iteration of myself" as opposed to her days as an acolyte or anything before

I know it's been days lol but I remember you didn't get an answer when you asked and I just got this dialogue now

[blazing wasp]

That's a interesting interpretation of that question

[static bluff]

(it's unique to her)

(that we know of)

it's not language barrier or something that comes inherently with being hive, it stems from luzaku's personal outlook. we don't know of any other beings that share that outlook

[safe galleon]

icic, thank you

[analog torrent]

What are Owl Sector's "tech mites?" They sound similar to Shirazi's Golden Age experiments in grimoire 3

[lofty badge]

so... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kgnJ7Yozbg&ab_channel=MynameisByf

guess it is real

[ember storm]

what is that thumbnail

[empty fern]

The winnower clearly

It’s actually just a hairless furry (but more on the demi side)

[ember storm]

Byf really went downhill huh

I meme about it but damn

[analog torrent]

I respect him but his diehard fans be the kind to parrot headcanon like it's canon

[ember storm]

I don’t (ask mael about the discord incident)

[broken relic]

The Winnower is a Goth Girl because I said so

[empty fern]

Nice

[analog torrent]

Heard he deleted his discord which erased a lot of community discussion and lore

[ember storm]

Yup

Guess the reason

[analog torrent]

y

thou shalt not question popular headcanon?

[ember storm]

there was none

[analog torrent]

damn

[ember storm]

he just “didn’t like how it was going”

[analog torrent]

maybe he doesn't like his fans either

[ember storm]

it wasn’t anything to do with that

he was just bored of the discord and decided to delete thousands of pages worth of discussion

[lofty badge]

[raw hazel]

Yeah it was incredibly stupid (I was in that community)

He hadn't engaged with the server for years, and from what I've heard down the grapevine apparently he basically just didn't know what to do with it/didn't know who to trust with it. So he just... Deleted it.

Which I suppose is technically his right to do as server owner, but inversely there were literal years of community discourse in that server, and people who still used it regularly. It just needed more moderation.

He could have just scrubbed his branding from the place if he didn't want it anymore, but nope.

[river ruin]

i mean for awhile its been pretty clear that the gardener and winnower were real

[lofty badge]

true i just saw some people saying it was not real

[river ruin]

they are larpers

[ember storm]

Actually the general consensus was that Unveiling was just made up or religious text based on real concepts

Which hasn’t really changed

There is a thing out there that’s called the winnower, yes

[river ruin]

that is kinda dumb ngl

[ember storm]

We still have zero clue about it explicitly though

It could be the veil, probably

We dunno

[lofty badge]

lol

[river ruin]

also if it was religious that doesnt make it unreliable

[ember storm]

it makes it biased and not representative of the genuine article

Sword logic is based entirely upon the tribute system the witness forced the hive into taking, their entire civilization revolves around it, yet the witness calls them reductive and boring

[river ruin]

not necessarily

[ember storm]

In the specific context of a civilization that committed mass suicide to give birth to the living embodiment of bias because they hated silent gods, it kinda does

[river ruin]

this still doesnt really make the text bias that makes it wrong if you know what i mean

[jagged badge]

The text given to us by the Witness who wanted to paint a certain picture to convince us to its side?

[river ruin]

you dont think outside of the game do you?

[jagged badge]

[river ruin]

yeah you dont

[jagged badge]

You gonna continue to be rude to me or are you actually gonna debate your point here?

[river ruin]

how am i being rude to you?

[jagged badge]

I guess you can’t then

[river ruin]

can you tell me how i am being rude? or do you just assume everything is an attack on you?

[jagged badge]

[analog torrent]

In what universe is this "not rude"

[jagged badge]

Anyways

[river ruin]

its not rude

[analog torrent]

What are Owl Sector's "tech mites?" They sound similar to Shirazi's Golden Age experiments in grimoire 3
Similarities: lethal, induce strange and enhanced behaviors in the victims, colorful nanites/side effects or something

Same thing?

[safe galleon]

if that question weren't rhetorical i imagine you would have elaborated on by now what you meant when you implied that it was necessary to consider the text 'outside of the game' because that would have ushered that conversation along like 10 minutes ago

[jagged badge]

I have no idea about either of those so unfortunately I can’t help here

Thanks swipey text, I totally meant “infirmary”

[safe galleon]

and if it is rhetorical, you're asking it to imply something about that person, and somehow i don't think it was anything positive Lemau

[river ruin]

i was pointing out that eris cant think outside of the game

[safe galleon]

and you don't think that's condescending?

[jagged badge]

Somehow I don’t get the impression that this guy who called me slurs was trying to say something nice tbh

[river ruin]

im just pointing it out

[safe galleon]

huh, didn't catch that part 🤨

[jagged badge]

Oh nah this wasn’t in chat

[analog torrent]

ik jack shit about Owl Sector but the latter is pretty cool and appears to be the same thing
Looks like this ishtar link covers what went down, it's also in grimoire 3: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/dr-shirazis-notes
Dr Shirazi worked with Braytech during the Golden Age. Did some unethical human experimentation (ye olde Braytech) and injected patients with nanites that enhanced them for a few days before killing them. Notably, the nanites were associated with colors

[safe galleon]

i see i see

[jagged badge]

They DM’d me to call me slurs and then when I blocked them messaged me on an alt too

And as we can see, they still can’t actually explain or back up what they’re saying so

[safe galleon]

yikes, hopefully mods take care of that then

[river ruin]

i can

i see you still cant understand it

[jagged badge]

And you’re back to being rude

@sick yew

[safe galleon]

do it then, nobody's stopping you

[river ruin]

what do you want me to explain then?

[river ruin]

i see you are lying, nice

[safe galleon]

okay i'm not entertaining this man

[jagged badge]

Trying to save face in public when I have receipts is crazy

[river ruin]

so you clearly dont want me to explain

[river ruin]

keep lying

actually funny that you think that

[safe galleon]

anyways, does anyone know if we have any other first-person perspectives of the traveler besides dreams of alpha lupi and the ergo sum lore tab? they're always good reads

[static bluff]

I think the vision collectibles?

[safe galleon]

do you have the ishtar link for those, or maybe just some keywords to look up?

[river ruin]

yeah but its clear that bungie wants unveiling to be the origin of the universe

[jagged badge]

That is not “clear” at all

[river ruin]

it is

[jagged badge]

Lmao

How do you just have wrong take after wrong take?

[static bluff]

they're audio collectibles and the few vids I saw that showcase them are just guides for the collectibles that don't stick around to listen to them

[river ruin]

how it it wrong? becuz you cant undertand it? becuz you cant think for yourself?

please tell us

[static bluff]

have you considered that this may be sign of bait and it's time to stop interacting like you said you should ages ago

[jagged badge]

Fair point, we don’t need to engage with this guy yeah

[safe galleon]

are you talking about micah-10's visions scattered throughout the pale heart?

[earnest minnow]

Do Exos have the bits?

[safe galleon]

yes.

[earnest minnow]

sick

[static bluff]

they're visions of the traveler that micah can interpret and recite

[earnest minnow]

I wanna be one

[river ruin]

you say im wrong yet cant prove it. keep yapping

[safe galleon]

pretty much any major external features that humans have, an exo would have. clovis tried to give one four arms and they started ripping themself apart

[river ruin]

they didnt want to be fallen

[ember storm]

less about form than function

which is also the point

if an exo were built to look as close to human as possible, it would immediately flag the uncanny valley senses and induce DER

[river ruin]

skill issue on their end

[analog torrent]

I was wondering why they had no synthskin ngl
that'd explain it

[earnest minnow]

that was kind of the basis of my question. I read that Exos have to have functioning lungs because the first ones went insane without breathing

[broken relic]

I would simply not get DER because I hate this flesh prison and wish to be free of it

[analog torrent]

• Micah-10, probably

[safe galleon]

yea yea i know but the gist is 'they've gotta have some emulation of all the working bits and pieces humans have so they don't cascade into brain death, or whatever'

[ember storm]

I just know Braytech was the absolute worst kind of pride month marketing

[analog torrent]

"Want a body that matches your gender? Become an Exo today!"

[river ruin]

why did clovis thinking making am 2 was a good idea

[analog torrent]

(I know she transitioned when she was human it's for the meme)

[earnest minnow]

Is Micah an established person in the lore?

[jagged badge]

Yes

[earnest minnow]

I thought they were new in TFS

[ember storm]

not by a long shot

[raw hazel]

She's been around for a while.

[ember storm]

Vanilla D1 grimoire iirc

[analog torrent]

she was a founding member of the six coyotes which were in d1 and her first namedrop was at d2 launch

[jagged badge]

Micah-10 was a well known Hunter before. And Micah Abram was in Beyond Light lore. TFS explicitly confirms the two as being the same

[ember storm]

I did not

[jagged badge]

Mamma mia

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-bandwagon?highlight=Micah

earliest

[earnest minnow]

I get the feeling they wrote TFS to appeal to people who played content that doesn't exist anymore

[jagged badge]

I mean

[river ruin]

ok and where is the problem?

[ember storm]

It’s the culmination of 10 years worth of story

[jagged badge]

They wrote TFS to cap off a 10 year saga

[ember storm]

What did you expect

[broken relic]

Of course they did its a finale

[earnest minnow]

for the stuff to still be there in some way

[analog torrent]

Me when bungie caters to the people that cared about the game for 10 years for the 10 year finale 🤯

[jagged badge]

There’s enough in the game to understand most of TFS

[earnest minnow]

so that the expansion is also for people who joined halfway in. for example every single PC player

[ember storm]

Look I’m all for new player accessibility

[ember storm]

For the record D1 only lasted 2 years

The whole other 8 were all D2, which is when the pc crowd came in

[broken relic]

Destiny 2 is 123 gigabytes right now how big do you think it'd be with everything in it

[ember storm]

that’s not by any means “halfway in”

[earnest minnow]

about 200?

[ember storm]

And still, like

[river ruin]

like 150 165

[ember storm]

It’s literally just like expecting Endgame to be friendly towards someone who’s never watched a marvel movie

It’s just not going to happen

[safe galleon]

i mean you can still watch it and enjoy it i imagine, or at least people i know did

[jagged badge]

I’d like to reiterate this

[ember storm]

yeah but you shouldn’t be surprised it’s heavily built upon the past

[safe galleon]

just as i enjoyed tfs as someone who only played from haunted onward

[jagged badge]

There’s enough in the game rn to understand and enjoy TFS, but there is also stuff in TFS that rewards people who’ve played a while and know things

[safe galleon]

it really was not that confusing

what you don't pick up from knowing outright you pick up from context clues

[broken relic]

I played a ton just after Forsaken and again from Chosen to Witch Queen and now I'm back

[river ruin]

haunted was so mid ngl

[ember storm]

Miles better than risen

[jagged badge]

As an Eris enjoyer, Haunted is one of my favourite seasonal stories I’ve played. I don’t remember enough of how I felt in terms of the gameplay of the season but

The story is great

[safe galleon]

i think the only thing that bugged me about final shape was that them introducing targe as a fully voice acted character with no prior buildup carried a giant glowing neon red 'I AM GOING TO DIE' sign with it because he had never once had an actual appearance in the game itself

[river ruin]

why did targe kill himself for no reason

is he dumb

[safe galleon]

i wish guardians and ghosts were shown working as a unit more outside of specifically us and maybe crow

[ember storm]

He did, voiceless

It’s better than what they did for Sundance

Who had not only zero voice lines, but no actual written dialogue in any lore

then she just gets like 3 sentences before she’s shot again

[chrome fog]

Not necessarily what this means; more like a repository of every being in the real universe has some sort of copy in the Pale Heart. Think about the second episode of The Amazing Digital Circus.

[jagged badge]

Wait, who voiced Sundance in TFS?

[ember storm]

no clue

[chrome fog]

Aw that’s so neat

[ember storm]

But Targe is definitely voiced by dr venture

I’m like 99% sure

[jagged badge]

James Urbaniak I think is who voiced Targe

[ember storm]

yeah that’s him

[safe galleon]

i completely forgot that one cutscene where they try to kill zavolini, my bad. still my point stands, the story suddenly taking rapt interest in a character that was previously a background piece or a minor side character is just a clear signal of 'i'm going to Die, Imminently' at this point. they did it with amanda, for example

[ember storm]

only thing I could think about I could barely register the fact he exploded before the cutscene ended

[chrome fog]

Boberto what have we said about being better

[jagged badge]

Ehh I wouldn’t necessarily say that applies to Amanda

[river ruin]

i was just pointing it out

[jagged badge]

She’d been a speaking character since D1 and had commonly shown up in various seasons

[jagged badge]

Don’t bother engaging with them

It’s not worth it

[chrome fog]

Fair

[river ruin]

you are one to talk

[chrome fog]

We already talk to staff?

[jagged badge]

Well I tagged Alex earlier when they started again

[chrome fog]

I’ll go file then

[safe galleon]

amanda's death was one of the most telegraphed plotpoints in the game specifically because they suddenly took a huge interest in displaying her background to the audience. people were on about it at least half a month before it actually happened

[jagged badge]

I mean, maybe

[ember storm]

It’s better than how they did Cayde

[jagged badge]

But “death flags” have never necessarily always been accurate

[safe galleon]

like i'm not saying its 100% accurate but to say that it wasn't a giant death flag is inaccurate

[jagged badge]

I remember the community being convinced that Eido was gonna die

Then she didn’t

[ember storm]

Not only was it all over the marketing (which I guess can be excused since it was a revenge plot) but also the opening just shows him being shot and then does a “five minutes earlier…”

[chrome fog]

The polite thing would have been to elaborate what you meant instead of attacking the other member for not understanding your part of discussion

[river ruin]

i was going to

[chrome fog]

You didn’t

So do better

[river ruin]

never said i did

[chrome fog]

Aight

[jagged badge]

Anyways

[chrome fog]

Yeah

[safe galleon]

bs, i told you to and you just asked again what i meant

[river ruin]

thats not all at what i meant but go on

[analog torrent]

Gianni

[chrome fog]

That would be great

[chrome fog]

They’re not interested in discussion