📚lore-discussion

[languid crater]

Year 11 codename frontiers huh

[fresh zephyr]

And yeah

[dim minnow]

simple enough

[languid crater]

The heresy Eris morn armor set for locks looks so so good

😭🙏🏻I love being a warlock main

[dim minnow]

the Titan Revenant set looks insane

[chrome fog]

IF THE DAMN HUNTERS AND WARLOCKS COULD’VE LOCKED AND GOTTEN THE RIGHT FIT WE COULD’VE HAD BAGGY PANTS

I am so mad

[acoustic trail]

so why did hive get ghosts? i just started witch queen but didnt understand what flynch said

[dim minnow]

Good Wizard sets were just objectively better

[chrome fog]

I WANTED BAGGY PANTS SK BAD

[dim minnow]

Hive were meant to be blessed by the Traveler a long time ago

but the Witness got in the way

which is why the Traveler allows Ghosts to rez Hive

[chrome fog]

We actually answered this a bit ago, but tl;dr it didn’t prevent the Ghosts from choosing Hive
#📚lore-discussion message

[dim minnow]

to anyone who thinks I'm wrong, allow me to offer this up as a rebuttal:

1. Hunter mains align their fashion with edgy most of the time much to a detriment
2. Warlock mains just have bad fashion sense in general.

[chrome fog]

We have no good looking pants

Save for the chaps from Spire of the Watcher

[dim minnow]

that's what the robes are for

[fresh zephyr]

I’d say the Traveler visions about the split lean against that interpretation. The language used doesn’t lend itself to an internal division, but rather an outside force acting upon it, since the Traveler simply recalls existing peacefully within a haze of two unknown cosmic energies before there was an ‘abrupt severance’.

[chrome fog]

I hate that all the boots stop at halfway up the shin instead of right below the knee

All the options look so disappointing when you actually put them on

[raw hazel]

Mmmm, I would say it’s too vague to say one way or the other.

[acoustic trail]

why does it allow it? if the witness got in the way

[raw hazel]

Especially given how seemingly hard it is for the Traveler to remember in general, there’s a good chance that she wouldn’t remember everything.

[dim minnow]

because the Traveler is incredibly benevolent

probably wants to give the Hive a second chance

[fresh zephyr]

True. What’s interesting to me are the two energies, since Mara found them ‘familiar’.

[acoustic trail]

and ghosts never went to hive till the beginning of witch queen?

[chrome fog]

There had always been a stigma against resurrecting enemies of humanity until fairly recent developments had led us to ally with former enemies - namely House Light and the Cabal Empire

[dim minnow]

more like the events leading up to it but yes

[acoustic trail]

so why did the traveler allow ghosts to go to hive who are enemies?

[raw hazel]

(Also, idk why but Savathûn eventually going to Traveler heaven is endlessly funny to me, in a cosmic irony sort of way.)

[acoustic trail]

thanks for the spoiler ig

[raw hazel]

I mean if you’re in lore discussion I don’t think you can be picky about spoilers.

“Here be dragons” and all that.

[acoustic trail]

i mean you could just not say the ending of a quest im asking about

just cause" its funny"

[raw hazel]

How am I supposed to know?

[empty fern]

Play the game and find out

Who knows if Hally is actually lying to

[fresh zephyr]

It is kind of hilarious. Murders trillions. Gets a peaceful afterlife vibing in the Traveler if she dies.

[raw hazel]

I wasn’t even involved in your conversation so

[raw hazel]

Right??

Of all the fucking people.

[fresh zephyr]

Especially since her whole shtick has been about survival and avoiding death

Like she gets what she always wanted if she dies

She doesn’t stop existing

[chrome fog]

I would love a mission where we force Savathun to properly go to therapy

[fresh zephyr]

Just gets to live forever in peace

[empty fern]

I mean, witness died in the traveler

[raw hazel]

Not a Lightbearer + L + RIP tragic bozo

[analog torrent]

Anakin Skywalker

[empty fern]

For now

[raw hazel]

….

[fresh zephyr]

Technically, didn’t the Dissenters talk about ‘returning to the Light’ when we killed them?

[raw hazel]

Y’know. Would Precursor Lightbearers be even possible?

[empty fern]

Probably not

Mostly dead and the rest are dissenter statues

[raw hazel]

Tbh I am most looking forward to Heresy.

[dim minnow]

needs to be a body

Revenant for me

[fresh zephyr]

They supposedly once had access to the ‘Gardener’s Tools’? So maybe?

[dim minnow]

I was expecting Heresy to be more focused on Hidden Swarm honestly

[chrome fog]

Hmmm. Compiled data (memories) routed to the black box (veil) while operative data (true consciousnesses) are dumped (returned to the Light); some kind of parallel also to short and long term memory to Light and Darkness respectively maybe

[raw hazel]

I guess it falls on the question on what the Witness was “made” of, a body made of pure Darkness seems the most apt so yeah dunno if there would be physical remains to revive.

[chrome fog]

Ghostie

[raw hazel]

And well, the devs did say Heresy would directly addressing the Hive pantheon- So Savathûn and Xivu.

[fresh zephyr]

I’m just curious about the ‘eldritch energy’ they mention ‘boiling up’ in Heresy since it’s apparently going to shake up the Hive

[empty fern]

HERESY WOOOOO #👗destiny-fashion message

[candid inlet]

seqoxia (ID 625781054766186530)

[Message Link](#👗destiny-fashion message) to #👗destiny-fashion

Command triggered by seqoxia. Message link from · Jun 18, 2024, 4:13 AM

[chrome fog]

I wonder if we’ll see Nezarec again, or if they’ll adjust some shit to make RoN reruns a similar thing to when we kept running it back with Fikrul

[chrome fog]

Aaawwww dammit no boots/pants for my warlock, more smoothed over fabric for the robes to cover

The gauntlets look tasty though

[empty fern]

Thoughts on dreadnaught return? Think we’ll pilot it? #👗destiny-fashion message

[candid inlet]

seqoxia (ID 625781054766186530)

[Message Link](#👗destiny-fashion message) to #👗destiny-fashion

Command triggered by seqoxia. Message link from · Jun 18, 2024, 4:13 AM

[empty fern]

(Had to wait a bit)

[chrome fog]

I am only realizing how much in hurting for some good looking gauntlets

[dim minnow]

I know people are going crazy over Vampire Splicer D over there

[chrome fog]

BOOOTS

[empty fern]

True, but man, I’m looking forward to titans wedge helmet

[raw hazel]

I need the Captain Giger armor.

[chrome fog]

ACTUAL LEGWEAR FOR MY LOCK

I’m fucking begging for the boots to look good

[empty fern]

But yea, dreadnaught returns, the osmium court is remembered, and maybe Dovah said a secret brood?

[chrome fog]

And to shade well

[dim minnow]

that Dreadnaught set looks like mixing occultish elements with proper fancy military official wear

[empty fern]

I cast curse of duskcrusher shades

[dim minnow]

like the Titan looks like a royal navy admiral

[acoustic trail]

so if hive could always have ghosts, why did they only start getting them in the witch queen?

[chrome fog]

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/pirates-of-the-caribbean-tea-gif-12617756

[dim minnow]

because they never really tried until that point

[empty fern]

Wait

[dim minnow]

that and Savathun kinda goaded them into doing it

[acoustic trail]

the ghosts?

[dim minnow]

yes

[empty fern]

Didn’t savathun have the light since red war? (Or was savathun always savathun before the ghos)

[chrome fog]

I do hope we get chunky gauntlets some time, I love my warlock’s chunky arms

[fresh zephyr]

It’s more like the Traveler wouldn’t have allowed it before then.

[dim minnow]

Savathun didn't get rezzed until literally a week or two before Witch Queen

[chrome fog]

No; she had harvested Guardians’ Light back in that strike on Titan

[empty fern]

Ah so she’s been savathun for a while

[chrome fog]

But she didn’t have the Light

[empty fern]

No no meant something else
Was confusing sathona to savathun timelijeb

[fresh zephyr]

We see in Ergo Sum how the Traveler only allowed Sav to be rezzed because she ‘came back’.

I.E Gave up her Worm and so on

[empty fern]

She fr followed the guardian motto

[dim minnow]

probably because she already turned her back on the Witness prior

[acoustic trail]

but why? the hive is evil and serves darkness

[dim minnow]

Savathun betrayed the Witness prior

during the Collapse she stole the Veil and hid it

then she interfered with its messages in Arrivals

[raw hazel]

Somethingsomething, “The Light forgives.”

[empty fern]

(She does say she saved sol a while ago during 2 queens mission)

[raw hazel]

I am too tired to exposit the whole bit that Ikora said.

[empty fern]

Kek

Also

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny-2-final-shape-destiny-2-final-shape-ikora-rey-gif-1658628747359499287

This little scene, really makes you notice how scary the vex units are

Oh wait

Ikora ghost reveal?

[chrome fog]

The bit right after she gets shot always made me laugh from how shaky the cam and Ikora’s collapse to the ground was

[raw hazel]

But it’s related how Lightbearers are revived with no memories. In the Light there is ultimate forgiveness and unnatural grace- To allow for new possibilities to arise.

[empty fern]

Sounds biblical

[fresh zephyr]

I’m still kinda sad there were so many cool scenes in the trailers that didn’t make it into the game

[empty fern]

Like what (I forgor)

[fresh zephyr]

Like the whole horror flick scene with the Witness arms twitching

[dim minnow]

then we got that one lore page where a Vex legit telefrags a House Salvation refugee

[raw hazel]

It’s Ikora’s conclusion, but it seems to track. And well, the Traveler is the closest thing to a divine being we have.

[empty fern]

One day they’ll animate Achilles weaves a cocoon

[dim minnow]

animate Legacy's Lament

[raw hazel]

I suppose the Veil too, but that thing’s kinda screwy.

[empty fern]

Animate shaxx slapping felwinter

[dim minnow]

animate Ana Bray stuff

[empty fern]

Didn’t we already do that? Atleast her death

Actually

[fresh zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehl6aWUiA4Y

[empty fern]

Animated Uranus exo

[fresh zephyr]

That scene at 1:45

[dry lagoon]

Anyone have a link to the whole rubicon lore book

Or at least all that is available, I have 4 pages but wanna read the remainder that’s been found

[chrome fog]

Smth smth, religion was always originally about transitive truths about life meant to guide us through hardships

[dim minnow]

yeah Legacy part 1 and 2

[empty fern]

Oh wait what’s the song?

[dim minnow]

just the trailer song

[fresh zephyr]

No idea

[dim minnow]

uses some motifs

[chrome fog]

Maybe try Ishtar Collective, they have all (save for some classified) lore entries available as they draw from the API

[dim minnow]

you can find it online

[dry lagoon]

I’ve looked and it redacted

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-the-rubicon

[empty fern]

Specifically the part at 1:45 area, the rise again part

[chrome fog]

Oh oof

[dry lagoon]

Yeah still redacted it’s dumb

[fresh zephyr]

Someone posted the whole book on R/Destinylore the other day

But you’d have to go dig for the thread

[dim minnow]

don't see a specific motif

all I know is that it;s just the trailer song

[empty fern]

Pain

Trailer songs always hit

[fresh zephyr]

Indeed

I have the whole TFS ost and it’s not on there

[dim minnow]

the music itself seems to be specific to the trailer

[fresh zephyr]

So unfortunately it’s just there

[dim minnow]

infact reveal trailer music is usually made for the trailer itself

[fresh zephyr]

Usually they grab songs from other artists. I think this is the first time in a long while they cooked something special up themselves for one

[dim minnow]

I know Bungie played the music by itself before/after their Into the Light streams

[dim minnow]

you're thinking of different trailers

I'm referring to reveal trailers

like the cinematic ones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDRm0rwGVS0

apparently it's meant to be a remix of Journey

[empty fern]

Ah

[fresh zephyr]

Ah true

[dim minnow]

maybe I can find a version without the additional sounds

[empty fern]

Hmmmm

Nothing on Spotify so far

[deep pagoda]

Wondering this, why is the black garden in our system, on Venus?

[empty fern]

How’s it on Venus?

[fresh zephyr]

It was on Mars, unless you’re talking about the Vault of Glass

[empty fern]

There’s a bunch of portals everywhere so it’s kinda all over the place, like mars

[deep pagoda]

Ah so we don’t actually know its location?

[empty fern]

It’s uhhhh, kinda undefined?

[deep pagoda]

That’s my bad, thought it was on Venus

[empty fern]

Cyrus

[fresh zephyr]

And the Garden was on Mars because it usually exists outside of normal space time, but the Vex had locked it to a single physical location on Mars

[empty fern]

Nvm

Still wondering how vog takes place in the black garden, where are people hearing this

[deep pagoda]

Honestly I think it’s just random thought, you see the land around the VOG and it kinda looks like a new region of the black garden

[empty fern]

It does? Just looks like underground Venus to me

[deep pagoda]

Honestly no clue lol

So every time we go to the garden, it’s in some place that we don’t know?

And no one has tried flying up?

[empty fern]

Yea

[empty fern]

It’s a strange place, garden of salvation and vog (both vex corrupted the fireteams in there)

[deep pagoda]

So for all we know it’s a whole other plain of existence? Kinda like the acendant plain?

[empty fern]

Sure

[deep pagoda]

I did not know any of this lol

Though it was on Venus for the longest time

[empty fern]

(Some friends thought that too)

[trim grotto]

As far as we know, yes. Time is non-linear there. Time grows in all directions.
Grows grows grows the garden grows grows grows

[empty fern]

Mael no

Take the helmet off

[trim grotto]

Anyway time to go drive home now sure hope I don't crash and explode

[trim grotto]

Look me in the helmet and say this isn't Byf's theme I'm about to play with my car speakers, Dova

[dim minnow]

play it and find out

are you Brave enough?

[trim grotto]

I'm driving to your house and throwing a soggy dish sponge at you

[dim minnow]

aren't you all the way in Australia or something

[empty fern]

Used?

[trim grotto]

I'll drive quickly

[dim minnow]

through the ocean?

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/jeep-driving-on-water-motorboat-boating-boat-gif-22418323

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/enel-bruh-gif-24188404

[dim minnow]

you know, I can probably edit the face he makes at the end to make him look like the witness

[chrome fog]

Well it occupies a part of the Vex Network, which itself occupies a similar level of existence as the Ascendent Plane. It’s not literally in the Sol System but it’s access points are

[fresh zephyr]

So interesting tidbit, apparently a new round of rumors have crept out of Bungie about Lightfall and TFS’ development. Supposedly it’s finally been confirmed that the beginning and ending scenes of Lightfall were actually one scene originally, and that Neomuna was only supposed to be a set piece for the opening battle. They had also talked about the reason Neomuna was empty being that the Shadow Legion had slaughtered everyone, but that was deemed too grim, so they came up with the CloudArk

I wish we lived in that timeline

[heavy creek]

How do tormentors use void if void is a light element?

And tormentors are made of darkness?

[slim elk]

Same way the Hive blast you with arc and solar stuff

[chrome fog]

Void is a natural element of the universe, but Void Light is the presence of Void element brought about by Light

Same as Solar and Arc

[fresh zephyr]

Tbh, it doesn’t fit all that well within the current lore framework for Light and Darkness

[final stream]

How long was Cayde planning his sacrifice for

[empty fern]

I think as long as he was brought back,

Only info we kinda have is the last radio message

[split viper]

Since the beginning of final shape

If you look back at all the campaign, and alone in the dark ghost quests + the “find ghosts in the system of sol” quests

You’ll know that he knew he wouldn’t make it out

For example

• In Requiem, the 4th mission of final shape, when everyone sits by the campfire, cayde mentions about how he basically finished his life, mourned and at peace with the traveller. And it always felt wrong to him after he was bought back from that peace, and without his ghost.

• In a find the ghost quest on moon, cayde enjoys seeing the guardian just ramble it out, and micah asks if he would come along to other planet of sol (3 days before excision) to which cayde responds “We may not all make it out of this final battle”.

It just makes his character great imo, came back to fill in what any dead person would’ve done,and just make sure his/her friends have a secure future

[split viper]

Also, can you drop the source of this

[sharp osprey]

i think that, if this was true, it would have probably been better for the plot of Destiny in general, but idk if it wouldve been better for the game as a whole. the main reason is probably strand honestly. Unless we were to go into Final Shape with Stasis as the only Darkness element for Prismatic, i dont see how they wouldve fit it together in Final Shape's story. There is also the rumor that strand was originally supposed to be part of Witch Queen but was scrapped in favor of Light subclass reworks.

but speaking purely on the plot, the idea of one mission on Neomuna where its found the city has been completely eradicated and the Witness links the veil to the traveler is definitely a lot more interesting than the real lightfall.

in addition, the veil would have had to been explained in Witch Queen's seasons, as well as the Witness's origins and so on

its interesting to think about for sure

[fresh zephyr]

It’s part of a pastebin circulating in the usual places, which I’m not gonna post since some of it involves leaks for future stuff.

[sharp osprey]

oh, i hope we're allowed to talk about it, oops

[blazing wasp]

Which one of them, 5 have been posted AFAIK (all debunked as fake)

Oh right we can't talk about that

[sharp osprey]

i mean, tbf, even besides rumors, its pretty clear Lightfall was originally supposed to be the start of final shape

just by playing the game you can figure that out

[fresh zephyr]

It’s a new one posted a few hours ago. But from my understanding, any discussion involving unreleased content is off limits but past release stuff is fair game. And yeah. Just watching the two cutscenes together makes it obvious

[sharp osprey]

the coalition the entire time lightfall is happening 🗿

they just stand there in the helm the whole time lmao

[fresh zephyr]

Yeeep

Like, you guys are gonna sit there and stare at the blast screen for days?

[blazing wasp]

The main bulk is busy trying to stop the witness' forces where they can

Futile, of course

But if they all go to Neptune, the witness' fleet would've followed

And then we'd be really fucked

[fresh zephyr]

I mean, the Witness fleet literally gave zero fucks about ours

[chrome fog]

I think I see why the decision to split it was made and how it was better, Bungie really drove themselves in a corner to make it so that we not only discover a remnant of Golden Age society that remained, but then also journeyed forth and entered the Traveler to combat the Witness. Maybe a map split between the two destinations wherein you could cross over through one entrance could cover this, but it would be a daunting task.

They also couldn’t just abandon the Neomuna plot for the Pale Heart, as they had spent much of the seasons leading up to Lightfall pointing us towards Neptune, so to have it play a small portion of the campaign whilst dedicating the expansion to taking down the Witness wouldn’t do either. There legitimately was no room for the two ideas to breath and so they had to split it to Lightfall and Final Shape

[blazing wasp]

They very much did attack us eventually

[fresh zephyr]

As far as we can tell, the battle stopped once it had the Traveler

[sharp osprey]

also, while they did explain why we cant just go through the traveler portal, its not like theres no possibility of it being written that you can just, yknow, go through it lol

[blazing wasp]

Could or couldn't, blindly rushing in there without a plan would be stupid given the power of the witness

A single ship could take on most of the coalition

Like only mara would be able to bring one down

[fresh zephyr]

The decision to split Lightfall and TFS was made well before the seasons where they started hinting about Neomuna

[blazing wasp]

They usually make stuff 6 months ahead of time

The choice was likely made a year before that, ish?

Maybe less

[fresh zephyr]

Somewhere around there

[chrome fog]

As Uke said, the seasons are still developed ahead of time and with regard to the expansion they are partnered to

[sharp osprey]

i mean i think we had lightfall and final shape name-dropped a good few years before they came out, right?

like the august before witch queen or something

[chrome fog]

Yes, but that’s the way development goes in that goals will shift once you realize some things aren’t going to work out, which is why you do the changes ahead of time

I mean they said as much in the vidocs leading up to Lightfall, that they just couldn’t fit everything into one expansion

It was unfortunate and they had been staking everything to wrap up in the next expansion but they realized too late that it wouldn’t give them room to give Neomuna space as an area nor give the Pale Heart and its narrative the time and space to be as impactful as it could

[sharp osprey]

the best timeline is probably that Lightfall and Final Shape are still seperate but Lightfall is actually good lol

[chrome fog]

Imagine going from the intro and out to mission of Neomuna and then doing all of Final Shape. It’d be pretty weird with the pacing and processing everything happening

[fresh zephyr]

We only started getting hints about Neomuna in Seraph. The Final Shape was announced to exist before Witch Queen even released back when its delay was announced. So there’s like a year and a half gap. They weren’t trapped by plot points that didn’t exist yet, and the seasons leading up to Lightfall almost certainly would’ve taken a vastly different shape. Beyond that, apparently Lightfall didn’t exist for story reasons but corporate fuckery,

Which already came out with all the stuff that happened during the layoffs

An also interesting note, apparently they had been playing with the Dread for a while and had actually intended for them to be in the Pyramids, but they never got the green light from above to do it.

So the Pyramids being empty is another aspect of the game that got stepped on. Wild to think we could’ve had them back in Beyond Light.

Would’ve been nuts.

[tropic swift]

What are some badass warlocks?

[empty fern]

Osiris

[tropic swift]

in lore

[empty fern]

Yes

[fresh zephyr]

Ikora, Osiris, Felwinter, Toland. A lot to choose from.

[sharp osprey]

me

[empty fern]

Felwinter and Toland definitely are the rebel options

[sharp osprey]

Ikora is probably the most badass, she's rocking like 10000 intellect and 10000 mobility

and is canonically a pvp sweat

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny2-warlock-gif-9720449

[raw hazel]

✊ 😔 Eriana-3

[empty fern]

A fate worse than felwinter

Actually who had it worse of the 3
Toland who was shattered (still kinda alive)
Felwinter who’s body became a zombie (probably grafted human flesh to exo for mass)
Or eriana, who died in the pit (to a tbrall?)

[trim grotto]

Well Toland did his thing willingly and seems pretty happy with the whole result

[raw hazel]

Eriana imo, Felwinter was at least dead by then, and Toland had it coming.

[empty fern]

True

[fresh zephyr]

Didn’t Eriana just get hit by the Deathsong?

[empty fern]

Probably, can’t remember how each of erises fireteam died

[tropic swift]

I mean wasn't thorn made by a warlock?

[raw hazel]

Titan

[empty fern]

Funky titan

[sharp osprey]

savathun is a warlock???? kind of?????

[tropic swift]

ooF

[fresh zephyr]

Pretty sure Felwinter had it the worst since he got eaten by SiVA and had his corpse puppeted

[empty fern]

Ghaul was a titan then (even if he had dawnblade

[sharp osprey]

Luzaku is a warlock

(kind of)

[tropic swift]

I mean which had the best drip

[empty fern]

Well

[tropic swift]

Plus I feel like me being a warlock exo is not lore right

[empty fern]

Felwinter helm, and osiris, that’s the only available models

[trim grotto]

Thorn used to be Rose, a fairly standard Handcannon. When the Titan Rezyl Azzir, it's owner, grafted (cursed) Hive chitin to it, it began to transform into Thorn, as he eventually became Dredgen Yor.

[sharp osprey]

dumbass question: if we ever get cabal lightbearers, do you think Ghaul would be rezzed?

[tropic swift]

Are there exo warlocks in lore?

[sharp osprey]

eriana

[empty fern]

Probably as likely as us getting cabal light bearers

[empty fern]

A lot

[fresh zephyr]

We don’t know what happened to his corpse, but probably not

[trim grotto]

Sure
Eriana and Taiko off the top of my head

[empty fern]

Taiko I miss

[tropic swift]

Eriana used solar right?

[sharp osprey]

there are none ingame unless you made your own warlock an exo lol

[raw hazel]

They went down as a squad of nine…

[fresh zephyr]

Since the Traveler says it wouldn’t share its power with someone that thinks of it like Ghaul, It really, really didn’t like him.

[empty fern]

Wasn’t it 6? I used to think it was 9 but eris corrected it later

[tropic swift]

I did

[trim grotto]

Well, sure. But all Guardians can learn to use all elements.

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny-hunter-shadowkeep-gif-26295740

[trim grotto]

Eriana was Praxic, however, so she would likely have had an affinity for Solar.

[tropic swift]

Her hand cannon is solar

[trim grotto]

Correct.

[tropic swift]

wish we had like a nightmare themed outfit, like a corrupted version of dreambane

[empty fern]

We uhhh

We have epalos

[tropic swift]

can't get anymore

[empty fern]

[raw hazel]

Talking about Taeko + L + RIP Bozos

[empty fern]

That’s it, I cast all seeing shrieker on you

[slate vapor]

The Traveler sucks. 💀 The Guardian saved it from the influence of the Witness, yet it refuses to revive our Ghost, and Cayde has to die to give us our light.

The Witness was right; the Traveler is just a disconnected being who gives only for its entertainment.

[sharp osprey]

how to misinterpret media 101

[dim minnow]

ok, what do you guys think?

[empty fern]

Not too bad

[trim grotto]

Absolutely not.

[dim minnow]

my first time doing an edit like this

[empty fern]

Time to Unmu the witness

[trim grotto]

I realise that was blunt, let me start again.
With respect, I would recommend learning more about the Traveler and the way it thinks and feels. Perhaps try finding the Traveler memories hidden throughout the Pale Heart.

It may shed light on the being behind the shell.

Also, the Dreams of Alpha Lupi, as aged as they are, are an excellent insight into its thoughts.

[dim minnow]

Torment take

go back to orbit

[sharp osprey]

The Final Shape's narrative constantly hammers home how we make our own destiny and that the traveler doesnt exist to choose our fate for us and merely gives us the ability to make our own. It will never decide anything for us, it will instead give us the means to make our own decisions.

[empty fern]

(Bait)

[sharp osprey]

probably

[acoustic trail]

so who are the scorn, who do they serve and why are they in savathuns world?

i know theyre dead fallen or something

[dim minnow]

Scorn are dead Eliksni reanimated by Dark Ether

[acoustic trail]

dark ether?

[dim minnow]

half of them serve Fikrul, the first Scorn

the rest served the Witness

[empty fern]

Riven wish stuff

[dim minnow]

an Ahamkara (Riven) combined a dying Fikrul's Ether with corruptive Darkness from Uldren because he made a wish to save Fikrul

[acoustic trail]

whos fikrul? i already killed riven

[trim grotto]

They're zombie Fallen. Originally created due to a mismade Wish Uldren Sov accidentally made (plus some Variks experiments) on Fikrul, the Fallen that Uldren wished back to life.
Riven, being Taken at the time, mixed this Wish magic with Taken energy to corrupt Fikrul's Ether.

In time, Fikrul began resurrecting other dead Eliksni.

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-forsaken-destiny2forsaken-scorn-scorned-barons-gif-23101088

Key head

[dim minnow]

Fikrul was an Archon Priest who had heretical views and was cast out of his House

[acoustic trail]

so are they like complete zombies? or are they sentient?

[empty fern]

Back in forsaken

[dim minnow]

they have the capability of higher thought

[empty fern]

Fikruls is kinda sentient? Enough to form a culture like thing

[dim minnow]

though a lot of them (especially ones that serve the Witness) are rather mindless

[acoustic trail]

andf who do they serve?

[trim grotto]

After the Witness was introduced into their collective mindscape, some began to serve the Witness. They're in the Throne World.
Others still loyally follow Fikrul.

[dim minnow]

I already explained that part

[acoustic trail]

and the ones in the throne world are just kinda roaming arouind?

[empty fern]

Yea

[dim minnow]

they're sent by the Witness

[empty fern]

Witness scorn

[acoustic trail]

so hard to get into destiny lore ngl

[trim grotto]

No, they're an invasion force from the Witness sent to kill Savathûn.

[empty fern]

[dim minnow]

the Throne World Scorn were sent by the Witness to take control over Savathun's Throne World

[trim grotto]

Well this was explained in the DLC itself

The Throne World bit, that is

[acoustic trail]

i thouhgt hive and witness are friends

[dim minnow]

typical neophyte

[sharp osprey]

depends, and even then, ehhhh

[dim minnow]

depends on who you're asking

[trim grotto]

Not Savathûn's Lucent Brood, no. She betrayed the Witness.

The other Hive, yes. Or, they were.

[acoustic trail]

in my experience the dlc are terrible at explaining what is actually going on

[empty fern]

Xivu? Or savathun

[acoustic trail]

at least for a new player

[dim minnow]

Xivu Arath was very loyal, but she seems to have abandoned it following Season of the Witch

[empty fern]

She fled to, the dreadnaught?

[sharp osprey]

was xivu ever actually in Sol?

never properly played through Witch

[trim grotto]

Yes

[dim minnow]

she has been on the Dreadnaught

[empty fern]

We don’t have an ingame model of her tho

[dim minnow]

we don't know that for certain

[acoustic trail]

bungie deleted too much content for new players to actually have a complete picture of whats going on

[trim grotto]

yeah we know we've heard it for years

[empty fern]

Even with timeline

[sharp osprey]

i assume xivu has fled Sol entirely

[acoustic trail]

the timeline has barely any info

[dim minnow]

not exactly

[empty fern]

Wonder if Erimis is coming back in revenant

[dim minnow]

she's laying low for now

[dim minnow]

I think she will be

one of the ending cutscenes shows that she might be working with Fikrul

[empty fern]

Yea

[sharp osprey]

is it possible that Xivu could be trying to take Oryx's old throne world for herself? is that even physically possible?

[empty fern]

Also, spider reveal? He’s finally back

[dim minnow]

be hard to do if Oryx comes back (which he probably will)

[empty fern]

That husk of a ship? Probably trying to since she lost her own connection

[dim minnow]

like I'm 70% certain on it

[sharp osprey]

you mean as a lightbearer? cuz i thought we prevented that in the dungeon

[dim minnow]

his corpse is literally still alive

[empty fern]

We getting nokris magic in here

[dim minnow]

all it needs is consciousness

like some form of Darkness fuckery will be enough

[sharp osprey]

oh? explain, please, i didnt know about this

[empty fern]

(Gonna put kegorath in oryx’s body)

[dim minnow]

lore tabs for the dungeon are about some hidden agents securing Oryx's body and analyzing it

their observations indicate that the body itself isn't dead

it's just that it's basically an empty husk

[sharp osprey]

interesting, i dont think they would include that detail if they didnt plan for him to come back

[dim minnow]

oh and the Vanguard decide to do the most reasonable thing possible

[empty fern]

Blow it up in a sparrow accident?

[dim minnow]

they take the still alive but empty body of one of our greatest enemies, and they decide to keep it intact and take it to the Tower

[sharp osprey]

Heresy seems like it'll be crazy

[empty fern]

Maybe that’s the heresy helm addition, oryx himself

[dim minnow]

he probably won't fit in the ship

[sharp osprey]

i hope the dreadnought is a real location and not another leviathan situation

(it will be another leviathan situation)

[empty fern]

What’s the leviathan situation?

[sharp osprey]

levi was a pseudo location during haunted but was vaulted once lightfall came around

[empty fern]

Ohhh

[sharp osprey]

iirc

[empty fern]

It’s not even gonna be a patrol zone

[sharp osprey]

or they could make the dreadnought be a player home

[empty fern]

Just a few seasonal activities and story missions, probably

[empty fern]

That’s heretical

[sharp osprey]

destiny player homes would be so sick

(and it would make bungo a lot of eververse money)

theres a ton of potential plot threads they could play with in heresy

oryx, savathun, luzaku, xivu

[empty fern]

Didn’t they uhhh

Already say what heresy was about? In frontiers

[sharp osprey]

i dont remember exactly but i think it was kind of vague, just "dreadnought and a big shake-up in the hive pantheon" or something

i could be wrong

lemme check

[empty fern]

Sounds about right

And referencing the episode armor, maybe someone pilots it and gets it running again?

[sharp osprey]

the prevailing community theory is that we will use the dreadnought to go interstellar

ok, they said "in heresy, there's a new eldtritch force that's bubbling to the surface"

[empty fern]

#👗destiny-fashion message

Mmmmm, ship decors

[candid inlet]

seqoxia (ID 625781054766186530)

[Message Link](#👗destiny-fashion message) to #👗destiny-fashion

Command triggered by seqoxia. Message link from · Jun 18, 2024, 4:13 AM

[sharp osprey]

i wonder what that new eldritch force is

at failsafe in the helm

also, #❓destiny-questions usually has your back for those types of questions

[empty fern]

Xivu herself
Or they go actual lovecraftian and bring oryx back to life or something

[sharp osprey]

they also said that there will be some revelations that will shake up the hive pantheon or religion or something to that effect

so i'm thinking some brand new shit never before seen

[empty fern]

So breaking traditions (like sword logic?)

[sharp osprey]

thats what it sounds like

[acoustic trail]

sorry wrong channel

[sharp osprey]

no worries!

[empty fern]

Would sound like they leaning on oryx return (since people think he’d view his revival as heretical)

[sharp osprey]

Luzaku in her dialogue talks about being meditative in the light, and Savathun is trying to find a "third way"

Luzaku seems like she's trying to find enlightenment

some kind of revelation or seomthing

[empty fern]

Wasn’t that just the taken phase thing? In the adventure

[sharp osprey]

hmm, not sure actually

i think its prismatic but idk

https://youtu.be/SKejUKb6jBY?si=AmtMNnGOIhVVUh7V

[empty fern]

It is time

[sharp osprey]

i really like this dialogue exchange

[empty fern]

It’s 3:30 am and I’m tired, gn

[sharp osprey]

goodnight

[dim minnow]

probably the Winnower

[broken relic]

Please

[sharp osprey]

i expected Savathun to be a little pissed that Luzaku broke away, but its so cool to see that she's actually proud of her "daughter" choosing to be independent

[sharp osprey]

possibly

[dim minnow]

given the fact that the war between Light and Dark is now over, it lends credence to the idea that the Gardener and Winnower aren't Light/Darkness

[broken relic]

A lot of what I've seen so far seems like they're trying to retcon unveiling as just a myth soconfirming it would be nice

[sharp osprey]

i mean the witness's dialogue talks about how much the hive got too carried away with the sword logic, so theres that too

[dim minnow]

meanwhile the Winnower loved what Oryx was doing

[sharp osprey]

my man oryx

i'm definitely excited for Heresy

by the way, am i wrong in suggesting that it was uncharacteristic for oryx to seek revenge for Crota's death?

[broken relic]

Yeah, I seriously don't get why people try to say the Winnower was just the Witness masquerading as a good character

[sharp osprey]

cuz of his unwavering devotion to the sword logic

i wonder if it wouldve been more in character for him not to seek revenge and just be like "yeah he died, hes not worthy to live, aiat" or whatever yknow

[dim minnow]

Savathun herself stated that it was pretty hypocritial

also should be noted that Crota's death did deal a huge blow to Oryx's tribute line

[sharp osprey]

thats true

i get the feeling tho that Oryx genuinely loved Crota and he wanted revenge purely out of love for his son

sword logic be damned

but also, he said "I'm happy to die"

oryx is an interesting character for sure

[dim minnow]

perhaps when Crota died he knew he was screwed

so he might as well go out fighting

[sharp osprey]

meanwhile xivu is just "I LOVE WAR I WANT TO KILL"

i know the least about her lol

do we know the motive of why she attacked torobatl besides war and sword logic and all that?

[tired lava]

chat so just to confirm

[dim minnow]

Savathun brought her there

[tired lava]

Dredgen Yor didnt have strand

[dim minnow]

100% no

[sharp osprey]

our guardian discovered strand

[tired lava]

what were the green stuff

[dim minnow]

Thorn poison

which is linked to Hive corruption

[trim grotto]

Strand didn't exist until we manipulated the Weave in Lightfall. Yor died decades/centuries ago.

[tired lava]

Ahhhhh

hive corruption

[willow dagger]

Oh, hey Mael

[dim minnow]

ok so it looks like Bungie explained the whole "Luzaku is supposed to be an Acolyte" thing

for those unaware, Luzaku was actually introduced in the Lore a while back

and in that lore entry, she is supposed to be an Acolyte

however in TFS when we meet her she is a wizard

according to some dialogue, Luzaku was indeed an Acolyte, but when she arrived in the Pale Heart, the Traveler turned her into a Wizard

[willow dagger]

But why?

[dim minnow]

that's what she's trying to figure out

[sick yew]

Wait really

Damn

[fresh zephyr]

[dim minnow]

I think Bungie just finds it a lot easier to work with a friendly ai that can just float around everywhere

given the layout of the lost sector

[sharp osprey]

Destiny Content Vault on youtube has all the luzaku lost sector dialogue archived there, its worth watching

[dim minnow]

their Excision video also has the Witness' "We. Will. NOT. YIELD!" line

[trim grotto]

Lore Vault

[sharp osprey]

hahaha

freudian slip

but yeah, i like the dialogue between luzaku and glint

about luzaku's interpretation of the repeated resurrections and all that

[fresh zephyr]

Well, the Traveler made her a witch

To replace the Witch Queen when we inevitably kill Savathun

My theory, anyway

[sharp osprey]

possibly

[fresh zephyr]

I’ll wait for eventual moment when we get the obvious ‘There must always be a Witch Queen’ line and the Hive bow to her

[sharp osprey]

i think Luzaku will lead a good portion of the lucent hive to the good side and they will join the coalition

[fresh zephyr]

Would be pretty cool

[sharp osprey]

she talks about not wanting a hive civil war tho, she wants to use peace to make them peaceful

[fresh zephyr]

Hell, if we can make friends with the Fallen and Cabal, we can do it with the Hive

They’ve done way less to humans than the others

[sharp osprey]

i dont know, the great disaster sticks out immediately

they were also present at the collapse

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah, but that was soldiers and an act of aggression on the part of the City

[sharp osprey]

but the collapse had a good hive presence

[fresh zephyr]

Only thing I know of with their involvement in the Collapse was when they emerged on the Moon.

Savathun was present, obviously, but we don’t have any reports or records of them being used as, say, foot soldiers

[sharp osprey]

but yeah, if we can ally with eliksni and cabal, we can ally with lucent hive i think.
i think crow is a great example of something like this, Uldren being public enemy #1 of the city and vanguard, and now Crow is literally THE hunter vangaurd, the exact position Uldren made vacant.
the lucent hive dont remember their past selves, so they have the same potential to be heroes that Crow has.

[fresh zephyr]

Pretty much

I imagine the Praxics will shit themselves though

I really hope we get an actual Guardian Civil War eventually

[sharp osprey]

thats what i thought lightfall was gonna be lol

but i thought this waaaaay before the lightfall reveal

[fresh zephyr]

I thought Lightfall would be Xivu’s invasion of the city, with the helm being a replacement tower or something

Like Red War 2.0

[sick yew]

I mean they were sortof building up a conflict between Citizens of the Last City and the Guardians during the Splicer days

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah

That seems to have calmed down somewhat though

[sick yew]

Well yeah cause the FWC and co were fucking exiled

[willow dagger]

Twas the last thing I remember before my hiatus

[fresh zephyr]

Though I think some of the foundries are still trying to come up with anti-Ghost weapons

[sick yew]

Theres even hints the FWC were trying to produce the light suppression devices for themselves
See the Salvagers Salvo loretab

[fresh zephyr]

And they were studying the Hive Ghosts

[sharp osprey]

speaking of hive ghosts, and ghosts in general, were they all created looking the same? did they make their shells after their creation, or did they pop out of the traveler that way? cuz it would be funny if the hive ghosts always looked suspiciously like hive lol

[fresh zephyr]

They popped out with the Generalist Shell from what we can tell

[sharp osprey]

generalist shell mentioned woooooo i love having my ghost look canonical

[fresh zephyr]

But they’ve always had the ability to modify their form to suit their hosts

According to the research the foundries were doing

[sharp osprey]

i wonder how many ghosts total the traveler created

[trim grotto]

They can never truly say.

[sharp osprey]

probably a good few million

i mean its a question thats been asked a thousand times "how many guardians are there in lore???" yknow

[fresh zephyr]

Bungie kind of hops around on how many Guardians there actually are

[sharp osprey]

i like the idea of a few thousand, like 20k at the absolute max

[fresh zephyr]

At some points they’ve said millions to match the playerbase, but at others it’s implied their numbers were way smaller.

[trim grotto]

one moment

IKO-006 ranks in the upper fraction of the 99th percentile of assessed Warlocks on most available metrics of precision, restraint, and raw power. She is, in simplistic terms, a fifth sigma Guardian: 1 in 3.5 million. Given that millions of Guardians have been activated over the centuries since the Collapse, and assuming that performance of Guardians on these metrics is normally distributed, we would expect about ten Guardians of similar power to have existed.

At least 35 million, in total, over the centuries including the deceased.

maff

[sharp osprey]

damn

a lot more than 20k

[fresh zephyr]

Like the Great Disaster killed a few thousand, and it was regarded as a major, crippling military loss, which makes little sense if there are millions running around.

[sharp osprey]

well that says that millions have been activated over the centuries

[sick yew]

I think there were far less guardians during that time than there are now

Yeah

[sharp osprey]

millions have probably died in the centuries since

i doubt theres 35 million right now

[fresh zephyr]

The Great Disaster was recent, though. Like within the last 100 years

[trim grotto]

Centuries ago, actually.

[fresh zephyr]

Couldn’t be centuries, since Eris is still alive

[sharp osprey]

eris's past life was a citizen of the last city, right?

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

That assumes she ages, which we have no evidence for. Also, she's not exactly a good control case.
Speaking of Eris, however... Eris Morn: I could tell you of the great battle, centuries ago. But instead, I will show you the bones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9LaU3Rzblg

[sharp osprey]

it seems like the scale of many aspects of Destiny's universe are very inconsistent

[trim grotto]

anywho i'm gonna play baldur's gate

[sharp osprey]

i'll stick to my 20k estimate as the current amount of guardians

maybe a little more

there is the fact that as more parts of the system become safer, there will be more guardians rezzed cuz the ghosts will be more safe to explore those areas

[fresh zephyr]

In WQ, there was the whole Martian Missives where Sav masquerading as Osiris talks about his limited lifespan now. Which given it’s Sav may or may not be a lie. But without the Light, they should just be normal humans with a normal lifespan. But yeah, I guess it might’ve been longer than I thought. There must’ve been a big gap between the battle and Eris and Co going into the Hellmouth.

And yeah, there’s a lot of inconsistency around the timeline

[sharp osprey]

in the golden age at least, its said that human lifespan tripled

but we're well past the golden age

[sick yew]

That effect has lingered on

[fresh zephyr]

Depends on the source of that lifespan. Was probably because the Golden Age was super advanced and they had really, really good medical care

[wheat flower]

Isn't eris part hive?

[sharp osprey]

she got hive eyes cuz her failed attempt at crota's end caused her to lose her own eyes and her ghost

[fresh zephyr]

And she stole them to replace her own and survive.

[wheat flower]

eris is xqc confirmed

[sharp osprey]

and she used hive magic to become a hive god, but forsook it after banishing xivu from her throne world because she didnt want to be corrupted by the power

[wheat flower]

anything for the views

[willow dagger]

Sigh, maybe one day I’ll get the riven and Taranis love story from Mael

[sick yew]

[fresh zephyr]

[wheat flower]

there shoudl be a youtube video about the cutscene

[dim minnow]

literally just watch the cutscene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Mb_l80Cdg

[wheat flower]

ahamkhara sure are ugly

[willow dagger]

K 1.) no Mael voice 2.) no one can hear me when I say “omg queeen” 3.) it’s just better from another person

[wheat flower]

1.) Whomp 2.)whomp

[sharp osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/whomp-mario-mario64-gaming-gif-27306995

[dim minnow]

well the cutscene is already someone else telling you it

[willow dagger]

[sharp osprey]

me when i'm in a coolest character in destiny competition and my opponent is Eris Morn

[fresh zephyr]

I kind of wish we’d permanently gotten Hive God Eris

So fucking cool

[sharp osprey]

but then they would have to change moon vendor eris

but nah, i think the decision for her to give it up is pretty dope

she doesnt want to be corrupted by the power hive godhood gives

"this moment will pass without song or ceremony" or whatever she says

[fresh zephyr]

Oh yeah, she made the right choice, but I loved that transformation

Visually it was just cool as hell, plus the voice.

[willow dagger]

How dare you, I cried, i said “queen”, I cried again

[sharp osprey]

my ass watching eris slit savathun's neck killing her instantly after suffering through witch queen legend solo savathun bossfight

[fresh zephyr]

I do wonder what’s gonna happen in Heresy

[sharp osprey]

a lot of stuff or not a lot of stuff

[split viper]

Xivu arath + savuthun

[sharp osprey]

probably the latter

[fresh zephyr]

Since Eris implies that she’s prepping for round 2

[split viper]

• eris

[sharp osprey]

luzakuuuuuuuu

[split viper]

Luzaku didn’t do shit unfortunately

I would’ve killed her if I could

Just another lightbearer

[sharp osprey]

[fresh zephyr]

Speaking of Luzaku

Her conversation with Savathun is hilarious

[sharp osprey]

i like it a lot

https://tenor.com/view/gunna-fire-writing-heat-gif-25524005

[fresh zephyr]

Look at you, all moved out and living on your own!

[sharp osprey]

savathun writers

also, Luzaku's VA is also Mara's VA

you can kind of tell by luzaku's speech pattern and the way she pronounces some words at the end of sentences especially

[fresh zephyr]

The voice filters work well

[sharp osprey]

i wish i had a hive reverb voice

[fresh zephyr]

Indeed

[sharp osprey]

i'm gonna go to bed

always enjoy talking about lore

[fresh zephyr]

Cya

Two more hours till freedom

[jagged badge]

Why?

Luzaku wants to be an ally to us in healing the Traveler and she wants to be able to convince more of the Lucent Brood not to follow Sword Logic

[compact saddle]

Luzaku was chill icl its and its a bit dumb to kill one of savathuns hive

After all are so called “alliance” is already weak asf

[fathom wagon]

its more of an "enemy of my enemy" thing

[compact saddle]

Ye thats the word

We kinda just tolerate each other when we have to

[fathom wagon]

its like in the old pokemon show where sometimes team rocket would not fight the protagonists when in a situation that affects them both

[compact saddle]

Ye she helps us for her own benefit

In a way

[patent swallow]

Yknow, the fact that the hive get thrown worlds confuses me, isn't the whole point of dying supposed to be that you lost and shouldn't live? Why are they ok with throne worlds but not necromancy? Oryx seems like a massive hypocrite

[jagged badge]

Throne Worlds are earned

Spaces carved into the universe through your own sheer power

[patent swallow]

Still. If they die, they deserved to be dead no?

Seems cheap, even if they did earn it. Goes against the whole idea of the "knife being sharpened" or whatever if they can just resurrect themselves after they die

I think there are multiple conversations between characters in the game where they talk abt this very thing

[lapis thistle]

Throne world are just a pocket dimensions where the hive and their liders like Oryx and Savathun earen but they can die in those worlds too. But to understand their power scale, oryx in the book of salvation (I think), created a sword that is actually the sword fragment that he use on Crota, to call the taken, and thats how, he suppose meet the witness

[swift spindle]

:(

[sick yew]

Not to be nitpicky but its technically not limited to the 3 Hive gods
The throne worlds are essentially a byproduct of the sword logic, anyone can get them if they kill enough powerful shit

If you think back to Forsaken the Mindbender even had one
Granted it was comparatively small but it was still there

Also they can only die in their throne worlds

[lapis thistle]

Yes you absolutely right I just mentioned Oryx and Savathun because they are the most famous

[sick yew]

Correct

[lapis thistle]

But Savathun sister have their throne world

[sick yew]

I wonder how our Guardians throne world would look

[fast tapir]

SURELY bungie lets us customize it!

[sick yew]

Minecraft dlc

[fast tapir]

huge

honestly it would go so hard

[jagged badge]

Xivu doesn’t have a Throne World anymore

[fast tapir]

being able to make a custom one

[lapis thistle]

Really

[fast tapir]

Eris yoinked it

[lapis thistle]

How did that happen did I miss anything

[sick yew]

Bla bla season of the witch bla bla hive magic bla bla

[fast tapir]

season of the witch

[jagged badge]

In Season of the Witch, Eris Morn became the most powerful Hive to ever exist through the collective tithes of Guardians and killing Savathûn

Then she cast a spell to banish Xivu from her Throne

Now Xivu is mortal

[lapis thistle]

Haaaaaa ye I forget that

[fast tapir]

i wonder where she is hiding right now

[patent swallow]

Again, I understand the concept of throne worlds, I just don't get how utilizing one doesn't directly go against the sword logic because they don't actually die. It's a way to cheat death and that just doesn't follow the sword logics main purpose at all

[lapis thistle]

So technically Eris could have a throne world

Imagine Eris becoming evil and he have to fight her

[jagged badge]

Not anymore

[jagged badge]

Why would that happen?

Season of the Witch was entirely about that not happening

[lapis thistle]

Just a idea

[lapis thistle]

Ye I miss that season

[sick yew]

If you want evil Eris read dark future

[fast tapir]

was Eris forced to give up the power or was it a choice?

[lapis thistle]

Because of college

[jagged badge]

Season of the Witch pretty much directly made fun of all the “evil Eris” theories and put them to bed for good by showing Eris literally become a Hive God and then cast aside her power when she was done

[lapis thistle]

Did you guys know that ergo sum is the sword on our grave

So technically we will die

For that to happen our ghost is going to die

Imagine what type of being is capable of that

[jagged badge]

That isn’t a set in stone timeline

[sick yew]

A shank in a darkness zone

[lapis thistle]

Even the witness could defeat us

[jagged badge]

In fact, it’s even theorised that could have been a timeline where Cayde didn’t sacrifice himself to save our Ghost

[sick yew]

One day we trip and fall onto our ghost crushing it losing the light forever

[patent swallow]

Idk how bungie is gonna be able to pull off our guardians death tho

[lapis thistle]

Fr fr

[patent swallow]

Like gameplaywise

[jagged badge]

Who says our Guardian is dying?

[sick yew]

Me

:)

[patent swallow]

Ergo sum sword on the grave, if bungie decides to go thst route

[fast tapir]

yeah The Guardian might not even die

[gentle geyser]

Except it didn’t

[fast tapir]

alright Alex said its happening so its happening

[sick yew]

I make the lore

I am John A. Bungie

[lapis thistle]

Ye I miss the couldn't part there mb

[patent swallow]

So Alex, what was the Radial Mast?

[lapis thistle]

Or it could be some one else

Like our guardian can pass the sword too

[sick yew]

[fast tapir]

well

i mean

[sick yew]

Wouldnt you like to know

[lapis thistle]

But on Shaxz tribute

[fast tapir]

no other person has the title "The Young Wolf"

so that cant be possible

[lapis thistle]

He is directly speaking to us

But I don't see how he die

[sick yew]

Maybe we do
Maybe we dont
Can only wait and see

[lapis thistle]

Unless we die in the same way as Cayde

[fast tapir]

in the bottom of a prison?

[ember storm]

That was Saint

And that was a eulogy

He’s not speaking “directly to us”

[jagged badge]

I just don’t know why everyone puts so much stock into the grave thing tbh

[lapis thistle]

Or saint ye

[jagged badge]

Guardians make their own fate. The grave doesn’t matter

[sick yew]

Im interested to see whether Bungie will focus more on our Guardians character in the future
The post Excision cutscene gave our guardian waaaaaay more emotion than they have ever shown in all of D1 and D2 combined

[fast tapir]

literally

[lapis thistle]

Ye you right

[sick yew]

Gonna be wild if that theme continues

[fast tapir]

honestly some Guardian lore would be amazing

[jagged badge]

I wasn’t expecting to almost cry because of my Guardian tbh

[fast tapir]

😭

this scene was just perfect

[lapis thistle]

Fr tho

I cry

When Cayde said

[ember storm]

I can’t imagine how anybody can hate ghost

[lapis thistle]

Everything is connected by the light

[sick yew]

But also I kinda like my guardian being a mostly silent standin
That sort of character type was always pretty nice to me aswell, its why I always keep my guardians helmet on and stuff

Bros just a guy

[river ruin]

this is so larpy, i missed when it was we are good they are evil

[jagged badge]

Honestly

[jagged badge]

So you miss bland storytelling with no nuance?

[ember storm]

I hate well written plots

[river ruin]

when did i say that?

[fast tapir]

the Destiny 1 khvostov quest dialogue still gets me

[ember storm]

I like Helldivers because there is no messaging or nuance whatsoever

[sick yew]

Well tbf our ghost also underwent some character development over the years
It used to be slightly one-dimensional but its definitely improved

[lapis thistle]

I quite like honestly

[ember storm]

that went away in like taken king

[jagged badge]

That wizard came from the moon

[lapis thistle]

Is not black and white anymore

[final stream]

I mean the scorn were quite clearly not good

I thought forsaken was good

[sick yew]

Its had its ups and downs
During red war it was pretty nice and inbetween it kinda meh and sometimes better again

[jagged badge]

It’s also sorta not the Scorn’s fault

[river ruin]

boring tbh, every story is like this now

[fast tapir]

We've Woken the Hive!

[ember storm]

yeah but that wasn’t the point

[sick yew]

Yooo @final stream wassup man

[ember storm]

we were entirely dead set on a revenge murder mission

[jagged badge]

Because it’s literally just better writing?

[sick yew]

Havent seen you in a hot minute

[ember storm]

we completely ignored everything the vanguard had done for us at that point

[final stream]

Yooo

[river ruin]

not really

[ember storm]

we weren’t doing literally anything else

[lapis thistle]

On destiny 1 we didn't have voice lines

[jagged badge]

The world isn’t black and white, so these conflicts we have aren’t going to be black and white

[ember storm]

just running around the shore killing

[lapis thistle]

I understand why but

[ember storm]

we did

[sick yew]

We did didnt we?

[ember storm]

vanilla campaign had voice

[river ruin]

doesnt mean thats what every story has to be

[fast tapir]

yes we did

[sick yew]

It was basically nothing but there were a small handful

[lapis thistle]

He and our ghost come a long way

[ember storm]

infinitely more voice than D2 year 1

Or forsaken for that matter

[jagged badge]

Our allies can have shameful moments and our enemies can have sympathetic ones. That makes a more nuanced and authentic world for a story

[final stream]

I’m back to play TFS

[lapis thistle]

I don't remember

[sick yew]

Hell yeah

[ember storm]

And Shadowkeep

[lapis thistle]

At least in the beginning

[ember storm]

Forsaken and Shadowkeep has a grand total of four voice lines combined

[jagged badge]

If you want black and white conflicts you can probably watch a billion children’s cartoons that work that way

[ember storm]

Vanilla D1 was regular conversations

[sick yew]

Cant wait for our guardian to say
"I make my own Destiny 2"

[jagged badge]

Although granted, a lot of children’s cartoons also recognise that black and white is silly. Like Avatar for example

[river ruin]

yeah but they dont have good story

[final stream]

I make my own destiny too!

[ember storm]

the worst thing we’ve ever said was definitely “the only thing we have to break is you”

But I’m willing to accept it just because Eramis is annoying

[sick yew]

Nah that shit was hilarious

[lapis thistle]

Haaa ye but I mean like voice lines that actually meant something, like now

[fast tapir]

i fucking hate this line

if i could change ONE THING i want in destiny

[lapis thistle]

Nahhh that shit was funny as hell tho

[fast tapir]

its to replace this line

[final stream]

I have no idea why we left eramis on Europa

[ember storm]

what

we had a 1:1 conversation with the exo stranger and also personally made deals with Mara

[analog inlet]

no what we said was suitable, eramis is a bitch she deserves the same energy

[river ruin]

eramis try not to be stupid challenge (impossible)

[ember storm]

How you going to pick her up

[lapis thistle]

Bruuhhhhh

[ember storm]

She stuck to the ground

[jagged badge]

Literally frozen in place by the Witness

[safe galleon]

weird question: is a ghost's voice something innate to them, or can they just like, choose how they sound and just have one voice they prefer using?

[lapis thistle]

Destiny might not have the Story you like

[final stream]

Smh just cut the ground

[analog inlet]

eramis is such a fucking backstage boss

[jagged badge]

I’d imagine it’s innate

[lapis thistle]

But destiny definitely has history and lore

[ember storm]

that’s why she’s literally just left the solar system

[final stream]

She’s not even frozen to anything that permanent

[graceful tide]

so lore wise did we end up turning the witness into a new gun yet?

[river ruin]

when did i say it didnt?

[lapis thistle]

What more then any MMORPG in my opinion

[jagged badge]

They’re all different people so it stands they have different voices to boot

[final stream]

You can see the underside of the floor

[ember storm]

No

[jagged badge]

That’s not happening

[analog inlet]

so...whats up with eramis now ?

[graceful tide]

F

[ember storm]

she left

[jagged badge]

Apparently she’s still in Sol

[lapis thistle]

Because plot

[jagged badge]

And is gonna have something to do with Fikrul in Revenant

[final stream]

Even I can tell she’s probably not dead

[fast tapir]

wait what

[analog inlet]

no shit but what agenda? she got to know the witness was gonna fuck all

[final stream]

We didn’t even shatter her

[jagged badge]

Who says we could have?

[analog inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/cayde6-gif-25102131

[final stream]

Transmat her, somewhere else

[lapis thistle]

Yes I forgot about the voice lines with the exo stranger you right

[river ruin]

fikrul and eramis try and be relevant challange

[fast tapir]

the shatterdive rapidly approaching her frozen body:

[analog inlet]

damn, missed opportunity

[ember storm]

wow it’s almost like they’ve been an untied plot thread and then there’s a new season that’s going to directly touch up on them

imagine that

[fast tapir]

insane to think about

[analog inlet]

thats gonna be fucking draining

[river ruin]

you got the joke bro congrats

[ember storm]

hey guys crazy theory

[lapis thistle]

She's not I think

[final stream]

I mean at the time after she froze

[safe galleon]

mewhen the ongoing live service story establishes a plot thread that will not be immediately touched upon

[ember storm]

Variks was supposed to be watching her and he ended up not contacting anyone about her breaking out

So blame him

[final stream]

We didn’t even recover her shard, I think

[jagged badge]

Silly Variks

[ember storm]

he probably had to go all the way to Elsie’s camp to use the restroom

[river ruin]

eramis tho has been a nothing character from the start

[ember storm]

eh I can appreciate what she serves for the other Eliksni characters

[final stream]

We could transmat her into the sun

[ember storm]

she really elevates Mithrax and Eido

[fast tapir]

he cant just use it in the snow?

dudes a space bug

i think hes done far worse

[ember storm]

Europa's surface temperature averages about 110 K (−160 °C; −260 °F) at the equator and only 50 K (−220 °C; −370 °F) at the poles

[final stream]

Even people use the snow

[fast tapir]

perhaps we mistreated him

[final stream]

Do we get mars back if the witness is dead

[fast tapir]

whar

[river ruin]

mars is back

[fast tapir]

we have mars no?

we are missing uhh

[river ruin]

io

[final stream]

Mercury

[fast tapir]

Io right?

[final stream]

Titan

[fast tapir]

titan is back

[jagged badge]

Titan returned in Season of the Deep

[final stream]

Oh yeah

[jagged badge]

It’s interesting tbh that Mercury and Io are still missing

[fast tapir]

yeah

[river ruin]

season of the mid activities

[ember storm]

I mean I don’t think they were under constant power

They were Taken

Killing the person who takes doesn’t revert everything back

[fresh zephyr]

Taken stuff doesn't get un-Taken when the Taker dies, yeah.

If they do bring them back eventually, it'll probably be from Mara learning to use her new power

[final stream]

What power does Mara have

[river ruin]

infinite death to whoever added 6 man activities to seasonal missions

[fresh zephyr]

Savathun taught her to 'take' in one of the quests, or at least a step towards it

[fast tapir]

i hope those time rifts are on mercury

they might not be but

being able to see old mercury and current at the same time would be cool

[ember storm]

pretty sure mars only got time rifts because the witness was looking into the origin of Neomuna

[fast tapir]

NOO

[fresh zephyr]

Ehh....Mercury can stay gone

[ember storm]

yes

[fast tapir]

2 tokens and a blue..

[fresh zephyr]

I would like Io back though

[ember storm]

SEQUENCE IS PATTERN

[fresh zephyr]

But above all else

[final stream]

They’ve reformed now!

[fresh zephyr]

I want them to bring back Venus as a destination

[river ruin]

i would take infinite blues to get rid of lightfall and its consequences

[fast tapir]

real

venus was awesome

[fresh zephyr]

My favorite D1 world

[fast tapir]

fr

[safe galleon]

why doesnt it seem all that common for people to learn stasis and strand? we know of former guardians doing it (iirc eris, zavala and osiris all learn one or the other at some stage) but wouldn't it just be useful to know how to use space magic in a world where anything without it is kind of defenseless? there are examples of non-guardians stepping up to defend the last city, e.g. amanda, but even among that group i don't thiiink we have any evidence of it being common to learn the Readily Available Space Magic

[river ruin]

strand the moment someone uses it wrong

https://tenor.com/view/out-disappear-bye-vanished-gif-4932063

[fresh zephyr]

Because Darkness still has a bad reputation with like 99% of people

And learning it is dangerous

We died multiple times learning Strand, for example

[safe galleon]

yknow what that makes sense, i forgot we killed ourselves like 50 times learning strand

[jagged badge]

And we died even more when Osiris learned Strand since he had to use us as a lightning rod

[final stream]

To be fair it was because nobody knew how to use it properly

[fast tapir]

lmao i love this

[final stream]

Could probably do it better now that we’re no longer testing

[safe galleon]

that's a thing he can do? just transfer the instant death to someone else? doesn't that take away the whole risk factor? albeit finding a guardian willing to stand there and die constantly for hours on end would probably be nearly as much of an inconvenience

[fresh zephyr]

Even Stasis is dangerous. Darkness responds to emotions more than anything else, unlike the Light which is more...docile.

So if someone is learning, they get upset or frustrated, next thing you know they are either green confetti or a ice sculpture, or someone else is.

[river ruin]

some dumbass kid thinking he is spiderman zipping around when he hits the wall at mach 3

[river ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/katara-sokka-atla-avatar-waterbender-gif-25251363

[final stream]

That’s what the ghost is for though right

[fresh zephyr]

For us, yeah

[ember storm]

Osiris used our guardian as his training

He tried getting us to use various methods of strand and we kept dying

[safe galleon]

icic

[ember storm]

From watching us he knew what to and what not to do

[fresh zephyr]

Plus, like I said, a lot of people are scared of Darkness. Hell, most of the normal people are scared of Guardians in general.

[safe galleon]

it makes me wonder how hard it actually is to wield without dying, given that we have multiple cases of former or plain non-guardians (in the case of elsie) using it confidently

[river ruin]

me when im in trouble and i see shaw han show up 😐

[safe galleon]

i don't remember seeing a lot of this in lore, but there's a lot i haven't read

where is it stated that most regular folks are afraid of guardians?

[jagged badge]

Also lightning rod

I have touched Strand myself now. Carefully—I am too aware of mortality, but I must understand the power further if I am to hope to instruct the Guardian in turn. They acted as lightning rod while I experimented, and the backlash clung to them instead.

[ember storm]

Not really scared, but more so

“Fascinated”

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/electronica-shell

[safe galleon]

ive seen this one

and it's very funny

[jagged badge]

"Sometimes they kind of dance 'at' each other, if you know what I mean," Vanguard technician Kweku Aglah confirms. "I feel like I'm watching the nature channel."
This made me fucking choke on the pastry flakes of my sausage roll 😭

[ember storm]

confirmation that the city has regular tv is also amazing to me

[jagged badge]

Oh my God

New headcanon

[ember storm]

like civilization barely survived an extinction level event and one of the things people decided they absolutely needed to survive was animal planet

[jagged badge]

David Attenborough was resurrected as a Lightbearer and has ended up continuing his job doing nature programmes

[ember storm]

“The screeb is round”

[safe galleon]

i think the idea that non-lightbearers kind of see guardians as cryptids or some kind of excitable animal is insanely funny

[heavy vortex]

Isn’t there a lore tab about guardians actually jumping off the tower

[blazing wasp]

Yes