📚lore-discussion

[eager trout]

Or more like, if it were a subclass, it would involve more than just heat

[ember storm]

lightning is a chemical change

[chrome fog]

No it's not

It's a discharge of built up electrons

What do you think nuclear fusion is?

Or for that matter nuclear fission?

You're breaking/putting together the nucleus of an atom/two atoms to create an exothermic reaction

A nuclear reactor is basically the same as most other power reactors in that it relies heavily on the heating of water to produce steam and spin generators, inducing an electrical current and producing electricity

Nuclear fusion/fission is just the chemical reaction of combustion with an excessively large amount of energy being released

[hearty dagger]

What do you think that a 3rd Darkness subclass could look like?

[chrome fog]

That's a toughie

[hearty dagger]

I feel like Strand embodies Freedom while Stasis embodies Control, so something between those two extremes?

Or what would a 3rd point on that graph potentially look like?

[chrome fog]

The Light subclasses really got all the basic aspects of physics under their control, namely thermal/kinetic energy, static electricity, and potential energy, and then Stasis is centered around Control and the way it influences the world (aka the crystals and shit it makes) are localization of an object reaching Absolute Zero, and Strand has the theme of Freedom and Connection whilst having aesthetics which connect it to Electromagnetism which itself is ever present throughout the universe and can be invisible until we use the right lens to see it

[hearty dagger]

Could you maybe do something with Ascendant power? Maybe we find a way to control the power that the Taken have by uncovering the true source of the taken?

[chrome fog]

Stasis already covers the Control aspect of that and Strand is connected to the weird "souls" part of Taking, not to mention that it would require us to adhere to a philosophy that ultimately we live in defiance of. To exert your own will over another when you fight to allow others the freedom to have their on free will, that contradiction can have a massive impact in a universe where Magic is literally tied to thoughts and mindsets.

(I haven't played nor seen anything from Final Shape yet so this is informed by nonspoiler stuff) Prismatic I feel would've been a cool "3rd" subclass for Darkness as it would be the combination of Darkness and Light, and prior to its reveal it had been thrown around that a Geomancy subclass would be cool, as it would tie into both Light and Darkness with Physical and Mental freedom to shape the world as we see fit, with the simplest way possible

[hearty dagger]

I'm not saying that we gain the power to take, but more that we gain new powers through the Deep, for a very basic example like how Hobgoblins gain Retaliator Swarms when they're taken.

The thought was that we gain new subclass powers that originate from the same source that gives the taken new power.

[chrome fog]

It would also fit in that tight space between all the physics that are already covered, in that it would be the manipulation of the atoms themselves to form into matter and shape of our own choosing; though, the presentation of Prismatic as it is now works perfectly fine as well, it would be nice if there were specifically Prismatic type abilities that played into the Sand/Eearthbending theme

[chrome fog]

It's the "Exerting wills over others" thing, they are shaped into a form that best suits their function.

Getting one of the grimoire entries rn to illustrate

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-captain

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-psion

It's a bit hammy but like it kinda justifies the abilities they are given

[hearty dagger]

So what, we wouldn't be able to "take the knife" and reshape ourselves?

[chrome fog]

We wouldn't and shouldn't need to, we should be fine as we are instead of constantly pursuing a perfected vision of what we should be. For all of us to fit into the same type of entity who is optimized in accordance to their abilities wouldn't fit with the differences between all of us

And the fact we’ve beaten so many adherents to this philosophy kinda proves that we’re more stronger for it

Everybody got their own perfected self, but it’s not for some other person or entity to determine or define.

In that sense, Crucible and running endgame content is how we achieve a “Taken” form and cut ourselves into a perfect shape

[river bronze]

What is the winnower

[empty fern]

Metaphor for darkness or something

Uh oh

Gremlins

[trim grotto]

A concept and metaphor described in the Unveiling lore book delivered to us by the Witness.

If it is supposed to be an actual being and not a role or concept to be observed or embodied, we have precious little evidence of it.

[hearty dagger]

What's the deal with the Rift Generator in the Dreaming City? Why is it that before you engage the Scorn the Taken will try to defend it, but if you start the Heroic event the taken will start trying to destroy it?

[eager trout]

Maybe they're trying to use it but if you arrive then they'd rather destroy it than let you have it

Ok, who is Mithrax, and who is Misraaks? I always mix up those names.

[boreal pilot]

yo , i’m trying to create a lore themed user . anyone wanna hear my choices & help decide ?

[chrome fog]

Same person, Kell of House Light

Mithrax is like a romanization of his name when it’s meant to be pronounced Misraaks

[chrome fog]

What do you mean a lore themed user

[eager trout]

Oh, so I've been trying to use the right one for nothing?

[chrome fog]

Just use whatever preference

I do Misraaks most of the time because I like using the original spelling/pronounciation

[eager trout]

Misraaks and Mithrax are like Dwayne Johnson and The Rock

[chrome fog]

Not really

[analog torrent]

I swear I read somewhere Misraaks prefers the Eliksni spelling, can't remember what lore tab or if I'm crazy

[chrome fog]

Kinda but not really; more like when you have a japanese person write and pronounce an English title with kanji that is phonetically closest to the ones used to pronounce the name

[boreal pilot]

like for the name. can i message u?

[chrome fog]

Like. For the server?

[boreal pilot]

no for in game

[boreal pilot]

basically bungie name

[chrome fog]

go ahead in here, let's see what you want to base your name on ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[boreal pilot]

ok

[chrome fog]

Make sure no Final Shape stuff tho, the spoiler ban lifts tomorrow

[analog torrent]

Taxis, Kell of the IRS is always funny albeit unoriginal

[boreal pilot]

nah it’s all old stuff

[chrome fog]

[boreal pilot]

i went with the name desiree, pronounced (des-ray) and then tried adding something lore based after it

and ended up with these as my options

desiree, essence of thy pyramid.

desiree, the decadent

desiree, distraught with malice.

[chrome fog]

Story behind each title?

They're pretty good

Just curious what's the inspiration for the titles

[boreal pilot]

uhhh the pyramid one is just the “essence” of the witnesses pyramid in root of nightmares.

middle one is just random and the last is fighting the urge to hurt , so i guess fighting the darkness

[chrome fog]

Last one feels more like they're in the midst of suffering, if you want their story to be some sort of obssessor over the Witness and the Pyramids then the first is good, yeah the middle one felt random

[boreal pilot]

so last is the “coolest”

[chrome fog]

First one is better

[boreal pilot]

okay sweet . i just wanted what sounded more dope / connected with the lore in general

[eager trout]

When and where was Quicksilver nanotech invented? (And how)

[chrome fog]

Just better SIVA

[boreal pilot]

though the first one i was referencing her being the “essence” in general .

[eager trout]

That doesn't answer

[chrome fog]

Have a portion of Golden Age human society isolated from most of the conflict within the solar system, like of course they'd be able to advance nanotechnology

It's a bit of a no brainer

[eager trout]

Ok, is hard light technology a thing in Destiny?

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Certainly with Lightbearer's abilities, also remember that mission on Titan where we can choose to save Misraaks?

[eager trout]

No

I wasn't in the game back then

[chrome fog]

He's trapped in a little cell of a hardlight barrier thing

Also like

There's the Cabal with their barriers

[eager trout]

I mean like, does humanity have hardlight technology?

[chrome fog]

Titan was a human colony

And it had the aforementioned barrier things

[eager trout]

Can it be put in a Ghost shell?

[chrome fog]

Like

Have you seen some shells

[eager trout]

I know there's one that looks like the laser wings ship

[chrome fog]

And also some sparrows now that I'm thinking of it

Like there's clearly hard light technology being utilized for those

[eager trout]

What about a nanotech Ghost shell? (Iron Man style)

[chrome fog]

Quicksilver shell

Also Iron Man's nanotech armor still looked like a bunch of sci-fi greeble plates stacked on each other

[eager trout]

That's a thing?

[chrome fog]

Didn't really scream "nanotech"

[eager trout]

But it could form stuff

[chrome fog]

Still not very nanotechy looking

[eager trout]

I want the functionality more than the appearance

[chrome fog]

I sleep now

[eager trout]

Good night

[chrome fog]

Then why not just point at any shell and say it was formed with nanotech

Functionally the same as the MCU nanotech stuff

[dim bison]

So if the Witness is NOT the winnower, but the traveller is the gardener, and the veil is the traveller’s opposite shouldnt the winnower be the veil?

[empty fern]

Dunno

[dim minnow]

spoiler rule is still in effect you know

I really want to talk about it too, but we gotta wait until tomorrow

[terse meadow]

Is saint 14 and Osiris married?

[cold onyx]

wait so rhulk got killed trying to kill his father

[dim minnow]

he did kill his father

then he chased after the rest of his family-clan

he found them by an abyss where they talked him down

then, when his guard was down, they threw him down into the abyss

he was broken, but alive

then the Witness appeared before him and gave him power which he used to wipe out his entire species

[cold onyx]

then a blows up his planent with his staff

[short bane]

guys why are there still taken if we killed the taken king

[cold onyx]

Witness

[short bane]

i guess thats the answer to basically anything

[cold onyx]

What is sword logic

[empty fern]

Witness but green

[cold onyx]

So when oryx resurrected savathun and xivu were they like slaves or oryx

[dim minnow]

Kill someone, you get stronger in simplest terms

[cold onyx]

How tf does byf have 3 hours of lore before d1

[dim minnow]

no, Oryx resurrected them in ways that related to their respective natures. For Xivu Arath, he commited a great act of War. For Savathun, it was an act of great Cunning.

[dim minnow]

lots of stuff happens before D1 in lore

[acoustic trail]

is there oxygen in space? or how can we breathe everywhere?

[flat musk]

wtf did they do to resurrect oryx, an act of great navigation? 😭

[short bane]

yes, there is oxygen in space. did you ever pay attention in science class?

[flat musk]

the light guardian

[acoustic trail]

yes i did, they also taught me about magic immortality powers, worm gods and floating cities in the sky

[flat musk]

did they tell you about the wish dragons or skip that part

[acoustic trail]

destiny lore channel when a new player asks a question about lore: 😠

[flat musk]

true!

i mean i dont think ive seen an explanation, the best i got is the light
if the traveler could create ether for the fallen, surely we can use the light to create air for ourselves
this is also assuming we can just make infinite ammo because of the light

[trim grotto]

Depends on the location. We do, however, have airtight armour.

Do you have a specific location in mind?

[dim minnow]

He never got revived

Though that may change in Episode: Heresy

[hollow drum]

i don’t think that’s necessary considering we just walk on the moon, on space stations, and survive climbing a shadow legion warship

[trim grotto]

Some locations do have breathable atmosphere which wasn't originally present. The Moon, for example.

I was going to cover two points at once.

[empty fern]

Oh yea have you seen the D2 frontier vid? The one for the previews of the episodes

[raw hazel]

mael

[dim minnow]

Yeah, cool stuff

[empty fern]

Stronnar

[dim minnow]

-man

[trim grotto]

Adadadada

[raw hazel]

🫵 stinky

[trim grotto]

[raw hazel]

a;jeiawojiaw;

in less memery, i am happy tomorrow is the 11th

NO MORE SPOILER CHAT

CAN FREELY TALK AGAIN

WOOOOOOOOO

[dim minnow]

We will build bridges,
Straight to the sky.
Heavenly lights surrounding you, and I.

You know, they could have played that song during the TFS ending

Shame they didn't

[lone oriole]

Is there any stated reason for how or why the aegis is in places other than the vault of glass? It appears in exhibition in the pyramid in the throne world, ||and in the final shape campaign||.

I'm just curious as to if it has some ability to transcend space

[trim grotto]

Stolen by Rhulk who's a bit of a collector, and ||because it was a Relic of Light in a realm of memory made manifest by Light||

[deep pagoda]

Ohhh, hope you don’t mind if I add some follow up questions.

When was Shin risen, and how does he use the light?

How did dredgen yor and shin first meet and interact

Would you say the shadows were formed around d1 launch since we had the Thorn then, or more or so early forsaken.

Also were there any followers of Yor back when he was still alive?

And is shin a member of the Praxic order?

[trim grotto]

Early City Age. The whole event was roughly in that period.

We have no idea! It's a mystery and it confuses us greatly.

Yor met Shin in Palamon when Shin was still a boy, and Yor burned it to the ground and slaughtered his adopted father.

I'd have to check some documents to figure out that level of timeframe

No

No. Actually, he's been at minor odds with them before.

[dim minnow]

1. Early on in the City Age most likely. As for how he uses it, we aren't sure.
2. Dredgen Yor burned down his hometown and murdered his family and mentor.
3. Shadows of Yor were formed by Shin at some point towards the end of D1 maybe.
4. Probably not, Shin was the one who started the group.
5. No

[deep pagoda]

Got last two questions now from this, hopefully.

How did we obtain the D1 Thorn? Is it the OG yor one?

And what happened between Shin and the Praxic Order?

[dim minnow]

The real Thorn was given to us by Shin in the Lumina quest

Shin was going to final kill two edgy Guardians, but Aunor demanded he let them live so they can be rehabilitated.

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-salt-mines

[lime tiger]

What are the rules for ahemkara wishes?
Like. Why didnt oryx, instead of wishing for riven to be taken or what not, just wish something like “erm, no more traveler. No more guardians, me have all the power i want” type thing.
Big loss on the exchange, but why not just do that?

[trim grotto]

It took the combined wish of 6 Lightbearers to put the Dreaming City in a curse loop.

Even Ahamkara have limits.

[sharp osprey]

Is Nessus considered a planet?

[deep pagoda]

Oh so the Praxic order is about habilitating dark guardians? Not crusading them?

[trim grotto]

No, it's a centaur.

[trim grotto]

Bit of column A, bit of column B. Mostly B, but Ikora tempers them.

[sharp osprey]

I know its a real thing in the solar system but idk if the vex terraforming has made it a planet or not, thanks for clarifying

[trim grotto]

It's still been called a centaur in game so I'm going with that

[deep pagoda]

Is Shins group similar in a way? And what is there name if you know

[dim minnow]

They want to kill as little guardians as possible, but if they know that Guardian is beyond saving up they either keep them imprisoned or they get rid of them for good

[lime tiger]

Ok that makes sense. Thx

[trim grotto]

If they turn back from the Dark, they're fine. If they dive too deep, open and willing to take the corruption unto themselves, however...

[violet rain]

I got a lore question is there no way of breaking the curse on the dreaming city ?

[trim grotto]

None that we currently know of.

Queen Mara Sov is working on it still.

[violet rain]

Lazy queen smh

[trim grotto]

I don't know what that is yet, so I couldn't say. This is why #1247252842465460225 exists.

[deep pagoda]

So both the Praxic order and whatever shins group is called, both try and turn them away from darkness but if they get to close they take em out? Whats the bit difference between there groups or are they just oddly similar in most ways?

[deep pagoda]

Mb, deleted

[trim grotto]

Shin Malphur actually wanted us to learn to use Darkness. His little deal with Drifter to set up Gambit was the foundation for when we eventually learned to wield Stasis and other forms of Darkness without succumbing to corruption.

Walk the line, as it were.

[deep pagoda]

Ah, so Shin wants a balance, the Praxic want only light?

[dim minnow]

You could say that Shin made Prismatic possiblr

[trim grotto]

Pretty much, yes.

[deep pagoda]

Also was that link you sent earlier about the Praxic order and Shins interaction?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[deep pagoda]

Will go give that a read, thank you!

[deep pagoda]

Alright got some more questions from all that, if you don’t mind.

[trim grotto]

Absolutely
I have a cup of tea and a pear salad, I'm ready and rearing to go

[deep pagoda]

Here they come

Does shin always roll alone?

Does shin have a following or group?

Why do the Praxic wear “black dusters”

Is shin allowed In the city?

How old is the Praxic order?

Has there been any Shin, Praxic, or dredgen lore from lightfall to now?

And do we know how the Praxic feel about prismatic and the large scale use of darkness?

[trim grotto]

Mostly, but he had a crew to organise the Shadows of Yor to keep track of the Wacky Darkness Guardians™️ . Callum Sol, for example, was actually on Shin's side.

Uh not really no, but every Hunter knows the tale of his duel with Dredgen Yor on Dwindler's Ridge

Rule of Cool™️! It's just their uniform.

Yes, but he tends not to.

I don't believe we have a specific date, but they existed prior to the Great Disaster centuries ago. I imagine, given our view of the Darkness at the time, that they were one of the earliest City Warlock factions to emerge.

Only offhanded references to the Praxics. There is more, but I can't reference it since it isn't declassified in the API.

Not a fan! But slowly coming to live with it. This is the aforementioned "more" in the API.

Shaxx describes the situation well

"You know, for a long time, weapons forged in the Darkness were shunned by Lightbearers," he explains. "Especially Pyramid souvenirs like Forbearance."

He leans in conspiratorially. "Praxic pearl-clutching and all that."

"But you showed us all that Darkness can be harnessed for good!" the Titan says, his boisterous demeanor returning. "And that true strength lies not with Light or Dark, but in the balance between them. Not even those Praxic fuddy-duddies can deny it now."

"That's the spirit I used to design your new launcher," he declares. "A weapon of the Darkness, by the Darkness, AGAINST the Darkness!"

"Now let's get out there and destroy the Witness with its own toys!"```

[deep pagoda]

Well shit you’ve answered all of my thoughts on that subject very well and I am damn satisfied

Got one last stray that is somewhat in theme,

What’s the connection between the Nine and the Dredgens, and why did they want us to keep “playing the game”

[trim grotto]

Not the Dredgens, but Dredgen, singular. Drifter was once known as Dredgen Hope.

The Dredgen, the Forgotten Blade, and the Hourglass. The three who surpassed their design, and wielded Darkness without corruption. Our "Dark Vanguard".

Drifter, Eris Morn, and Elsie Bray.

As for the game, it'd be the game of Light and Dark.

[deep pagoda]

And just wanna confirm that the Nine wanted us to keep using light and dark together so we would survive, cause if we die, they die?

[trim grotto]

Presumably, yes.
And yeah, if life within Sol dies, or if the gravitational hold of the celestial bodies is disrupted, they die.

[deep pagoda]

And correct me if I’m wrong, some of them want what’s best for humanity, and the other ones want to separate from us and hate that there power is locked behind us?

Also are they considered all powerful gods, or just meh

[trim grotto]

You're half right! There are two factions within the Nine, but they differ on how they seek their independence and freedom from that which binds them to Sol. One group experiment with dark matter and that which they may manipulate, such as the Cocytus Gate, and the others are curious about the realm of the paracausal.

As for their godhood... no. They are terrifying, and potentially dangerous, but despite it all, they're actually not even paracausal.

[deep pagoda]

Ah, so there just some real powerful big space dudes?

Also how the f* were they even formed lol

[trim grotto]

magic boltzmann brains

As for the second question...

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-dust

I highly recommend this lore book. The entire thing is a curious and fascinating read, but the entry The Nine in particular will hold your answers.
The page after that, The Witch, will explain the factions in mildly more detail than I already have.

I suggest reading the whole book though. It's quite good.

[deep pagoda]

I will do that! Thank you for all this knowledge, have a blessed night brother

[trim grotto]

[deep pagoda]

Amazing lore telling !

[trim grotto]

I love the lore for this game, I'm always happy to discuss it

[fresh zephyr]

Im raw-dogging Destiny Lore, from the first games vanilla, to the latest DLC in D2, wish me luck folks

[sharp osprey]

Will the final shape spoiler ban in this channel be lifted at reset?

[rapid mango]

Why is the final shape akin to a triangle and not something more fitting like a squircle

[fluid steppe]

triangles are pointy and more suited for killing

[jagged badge]

[flat musk]

im really rusty on my lore i thought this was in reference to the normal tuesday love killings

i see that ive been mistaken now

though what would they resurrect him with, if it were possible

[violet rain]

Got a crazy lore theory

Anyone care to hear

[trim grotto]

[violet rain]

What if the final shape is Circular triangle

Hear me out !

[sharp osprey]

You talking about the destiny logo?

[violet rain]

Shit

I didn’t even notice

[sharp osprey]

[violet rain]

But it just proves my theory more

[sharp osprey]

Side note: Eris is a certified badass

"I am the many-mouthed hunger; I am the knife-edged truth." Goes unbelievably hard

[violet rain]

I hope Eris gets with drifter

They would be a kick ass couple

Like one is pretty obsessed with the hive the other is pretty obsessed with the taken

[sharp osprey]

I dont think drifter is obsessed with the taken, its just part of his vibe

Hes not really obsessed with anything, he just associates with strange stuff

[violet rain]

True

I just want a dumb reason for them to be together

😮‍💨

Like I wanna destiny couple man

[sharp osprey]

I wish the dark vanguard in general was a bigger thing

[sharp osprey]

Saint and Osiris

[violet rain]

I guess 😮‍💨

To me that was a curveball I don’t even know. Understand the whole relationship between them.

[sharp osprey]

They were the vanguards together and fell in love, i think in their conversations you can feel the dynamic

[violet rain]

Like lore wise , I know about Saint and Osiris but I don’t know how they interact with each other

[sharp osprey]

After season 23's finale, there was an audio recording of them talking to each other about the coming war and what comes after that, it was pretty cool

[violet rain]

Damn Osiris must have sucked his man was in the vex network for years and technically died

[sharp osprey]

Well, saint went into the vex network originally looking for osiris so theres that lol

[violet rain]

What did Osiris do then?

[sharp osprey]

Osiris stuff, wanted to study the vex

He was exiled from the city

Cuz he had a cult following and all that

[violet rain]

Bad boyfriend

Smh

And yeah, I get it later on he does save him

[sharp osprey]

I dont really like osiris and i love saint lol

Saint is funny and cool and osiris is just kind of annoying

[violet rain]

I wanted Saint to be single or at least resented Osiris

[sharp osprey]

I think their relationship makes sense tho

[violet rain]

I guess

I still think Saint deserves better

[sharp osprey]

Youre not wrong lol

[violet rain]

Shaxx

[sharp osprey]

Shaxx is already married to us, kind of not really lol

Its more of a joke by the devs

[violet rain]

I remember the Christmas event happened and everyone talking about it how he had the helmet on

[sharp osprey]

Idk honestly

[jagged badge]

No

[sharp osprey]

I think people misinterpret that passage

[jagged badge]

They spent a night once where Shaxx recited Shakespeare from heart and they talked about Mara’s partner, Sjur Eido, as Shaxx had known her

[violet rain]

Really damn I was lied to

[dim minnow]

believe it or not, linked to the Witness

[jagged badge]

Hm?

[violet rain]

Like it makes sense, it’s in his name i

[sharp osprey]

What?

Im lost

[violet rain]

Not as lost as Saint in the vex network

Smh

[dim minnow]

Mara summoned Shaxx so he can pay her back for aiding in Twilight Gap
Twilight Gap was a battle where the Fallen tried to attack Last City
Fallen went to war with humanity because of what happened during the Whirlwind
Whirlwind was caused by the Witness

[sharp osprey]

I mean everything is connected to the witness then by that logic

[jagged badge]

Ah

[violet rain]

What so you’re telling me the fact that his name is the witness is not the reason?

[dim minnow]

the Witness is the cause for every single one of our problems

quite literally any conflict can be linked to it in some way

anything Hive related is automatically linked due to the Witness creating the Hive

[violet rain]

Even the meta

I I knew i

It I

What about the wish dragons?

I guess you can make a case the Queen’s Dragon

About**

[wicked wadi]

Hey ima need some help and wondering if any of you know about this

What is the weird skull looking thing at the bottom floor of the enclave?

[jagged badge]

Was added with the new expansion so technically this should go in #1247252842465460225

[wicked wadi]

Oh ok my bad

[jagged badge]

I don’t fault you for not knowing dw

Just being weary of the spoiler embargo

Which ends in 7 and a half hours!

[heady gyro]

Are there canon reasons for raid mechanics?

[trim grotto]

Not in any explicit lore tab, but there's usually a logic to be gleaned. Anything specific?

[sick yew]

I think the overall happenings are the same but the mechanics themselves are rarely lore accurate

The morning star crashing during the DSC raid is definitely canon however all the scanner and operator buffs and shit much less likely

Or how we utilized the Relic during vog in essence is basically confirmed on multiple occasions but not in the literal way we do ingame

[blazing wasp]

Seraphs shield confirms that operator buff requiring you to shoot keypads is canon

Ingame dialogue points it out

[sick yew]

Eeeeh imo even ingame dialogue can be weird canon wise

But fair point nontheless

[tired lava]

Chat wasnt Saint lightless?

or ghostless

[sick yew]

He was lightless at some point yes

During his time in the infinite forrest

After an untold time the Vex put a Mind in place which spend an even longer untold time analyzing the frequency of his light so they could suppress it which eventually lead to his death

[trim grotto]

Saint-14 lost his Light and died in a timeline splinter that we changed during Season of Dawn.

[sick yew]

My explanation was cooler

[trim grotto]

The Saint-14 we have by our side... is fine. As is Gepetto, his Ghost.

[sick yew]

Actually

Answer me this

In the "doomed" timeline I shall call it where Saint died
Did Gepetto perish when they suppressed his light?

Or what happened to em

[trim grotto]

If I recall, Saint-14 sent Gepetto away with a message transmission.

[blazing wasp]

Iirc he asked gepetto to flee

Yea

[sick yew]

And that message was?

Or what happened

[trim grotto]

She didn't make it out, though we did eventually find her, which led us to Saint-14's body.

[sick yew]

Ah

I dont recall any mention of Gepetto from the mission where we find his body but I might have forgotten that part

O h wait

Were those the light uh spots that we chase after?

[trim grotto]

Honestly it's been too long since CoO to remember details that specific

[sick yew]

Ye same

[ember storm]

we don’t find him

so he probably just died back then

[trim grotto]

Her. I may have been mixing it up with the Dawn version, though.

[ember storm]

ah

My mind went to Pinocchio’s dad

[trim grotto]

Yes it does throw a lot of people for a loop

[ember storm]

at the very least, both her and Sagira serve to explain away the whole “but Saint and Osiris were brothers!” problem some people seem to have

Saint referred to their ghosts the same way too, not to mention his way of viewing the Speaker

it’s not any kind of literal familiar terms being used

[trim grotto]

I believe Gepetto calls Saint Brother Saint at one point too

[ember storm]

except maybe the speaker but it’s also heavily tied to the spiritual aspect

I believe Saint does in fact reference the point that no guardians have parents but he still called speaker Father

[sick yew]

Speaker and Saint had an interesting relationship iirc yeah

[ember storm]

wonder if he’ll care that we’re wearing his dad’s face

[shadow crypt]

What happened to Brother Vance

[ember storm]

Almost certainly dead

He went into the infinite forest and tried sealing the exit, before he was met by a vex or witness copy of himself who he promptly gouged the eyes out of

he’s neither a Lightbearer nor in a golden age iron man suit, so any chance of survival that Sloane had, he doesn’t

[shadow crypt]

Oh ok

Also

Who’s Asher Mir

[sick yew]

An asshole

[ember storm]

A guardian and member of the gensym scribe order

[sick yew]

Well "guardian"

[ember storm]

Basically a bunch of nerds who do nerdy shit

[shadow crypt]

Lol

[ember storm]

After an expedition into a vex structure called the Pyramidion, he was permanently disfigured and given a terminal vex infection that took over his whole arm and his ghost

[sick yew]

Bro fell into Radiolaria which gave him a vex arm and him and his Ghost arent exactly on talking terms

At the end of Arrivals he went into the pyramideon alone and he havent seen him since but hes part of the Vex network now

[ember storm]

He both considered trying to self destruct and rez, or just mercy killing his ghost, but was too scared to have either die

[sick yew]

Last we've heard he helped us in the uuuh something something mission that gave us insight on the Veil in the first season of Lightfall

[ember storm]

Avalon

[sick yew]

I believe Mithrax said he sortof died there aswell

[ember storm]

Have us vexcalibur

He’s just dead now

[sick yew]

mhm

[ember storm]

Like Praedyth but without any time shenanigans like VoG can produce

So he’s just dead

Lost to the vex network, although some of his influence still lingers in architecture and code

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

[sick yew]

Bro became one with the 1s and 0s

[jagged badge]

Not really

Doesn’t sound like lore discussion to me smh

[chrome fog]

Wasn’t his ghost partially Vexified

[sick yew]

Correct

I believe that was said back in the day

[uneven canyon]

Hypothetical

[gentle geyser]

Not likely

The new vex villain most likely has some kind of mind control

And thats bungos way of showing it

[jagged badge]

It’s a rather specific shape to show

The prevailing theory after all is that the mysterious figure is Maya

[chrome fog]

And to any that are confused because the founder of Neomuna should be dead, there are simulated copies of Maya, her wife Chioma, and another Ishtar researcher all about the Vex Network. Potentially one of these copies could be the antagonist of Echoes

Which also fits because like, what would the 227 be if not Echoes of the originals and of each other

[tawdry mauve]

so is the oxa machine refered to as oxta sometimes just because its an anagram for taox?

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe but also there's no reason why a Vex prediction machine would be related to the one Krill who avoided becoming Hive

[tawdry mauve]

vex?

thought it was a psion thing

[chrome fog]

Where da Psion at when OXA mentioned?

[tawdry mauve]

what

from what im reading here the origins of the oxa machine goes back to the psions, not the vex

at least the documented one

[chrome fog]

I think for once Destinypedia is helpful here, but the most recent iteration was in some way connected to the Vex and Maya Sundaresh

[tawdry mauve]

right but we can assume it was the psions who named it what it is currently known as

the "Odyle Xenotaph Anarchive"

so im wondering if "oxta" as its sometimes refered to has connections to taox

[heady gyro]

Like one simple one that isnt even a raid mechanic is when bosses become immune and we have to kill the smaller minions to make them not immune

[ember storm]

Keep in mind a perfect vex replication of the Ishtar logo was present in the final unlock for Starcrossed, with zero explanation

There was even an emblem awarded for finding it

Plus, Maya has been shown to have influence over some machines in a similar capacity

Remember when she turned Clovis’ surgery into a torture session

[ember storm]

also why does this thing have the iron banner logo on it

Saint’s shield model is the basic sentinel model

[uneven canyon]

The throwing shield melee for Titans has the iron banner logo

[ember storm]

But why

[uneven canyon]

Dunno, people thought I was crazy during Witch Queen

[ember storm]

First time I’ve ever seen it

Damn

[median steeple]

In season of the deep the drifter explains he ventured out the system of sol and basically got fucked up by something he couldn’t identify, do you guys think enemies outside of Sol are within the same realm of power as the witness?

[ember storm]

I doubt it

What Drifter encountered was a creature on a desolate ice planet while he and his crewmates got disconnected from the light due to the red war

It was not any kind of reality bending self-proclaimed god like the likes of the witness

[chrome fog]

Wasn’t that from Arrivals

[split viper]

The witness travelled through a whole diff Galaxy outside the Milky Way, whatever the drifter encountered was 100% below the witness’s power level

And that’s kinda the whole point

The witness is the only big bad

And the rest fall under his wing

[chrome fog]

Being from outside of the Sol System doesn’t automatically scale them to the same power as the Witness. All the other alien species are from outside the Milky Way Galaxy even

[chrome fog]

For now

[median steeple]

So hypothetically speaking how would Bungie add meaning to a story that’s basically over then

[split viper]

The new villains are legit guided by echoes of the witness iirc

[split viper]

Darkness still exists

There’s so many bad guys rn

[median steeple]

But it surely can’t be used in a more dangerous way than the witness used it

[split viper]

Fikrul, Otzot, Savuthun, The main bad guy from this current echoes episode

[ember storm]

That’s what the rest of the year is about

It’s not about “this thing is more dangerous than the witness”

The witness was only due to and created very specific circumstances

[split viper]

No being is gonna be stronger than the witness

But any one can be smarter than it

Move in different ways through darkness

[median steeple]

Thought the witness was supposed to be a “perfect” being in some regards

[split viper]

Doesn’t seem like it

The way I see, if the veiled statues fw the main voice of the witness’s idea, then the black fleet could’ve easily won the war between light and dark

[median steeple]

Makes me really interested to see how Bungie will make me care about someone who is infinitely less of a threat than the witness

Narratively speaking there’s always someone out there that’s stronger

[chrome fog]

I mean a gun is less dangerous than a nuke but I’d still be in trouble if someone put a pistol to my head

This isn’t really an issue

They’ve done this before even

[median steeple]

I understand the analogy but I don’t think it applies here

[split viper]

The way I see it, the witness was a lot weaker due to many voices being inside it. Just imagine the power of the darkness carried by someone who has just one mind, one voice, one body

[chrome fog]

It kinda does

[raw hazel]

we

are

now

FREEEEEEE

[chrome fog]

Yippeee

[raw hazel]

ugh

spoiler week is always rough

[ember storm]

ok SO

[raw hazel]

HOLY SHIT THE WITNESS IS NOT THE WINNOWER

[ember storm]

the ending of final shape (spoiler warning out of personal courtesy )

The things that fly out of the traveler are called echoes

They’re the aftermath of the connection the witness forced with the veil and the traveler

[median steeple]

So what you’re saying is that the witness strength was limited by not everyone within its conscious being on the same page. But if someone like Oryx was able to fully control the darkness then we’d be in trouble. So it’s just a matter of who has access to the power and able to fully control it?

[raw hazel]

HOLY SHIT THE VISIONS OF THE TRAVELER ARE SO COOOOLLL

[chrome fog]

What do you think we’ll continue doing? Are we gonna stop defending the City from threats? Are we not going to fight the Scorn, Hive, and Vex as they threaten our existence? Just because they’re weaker? That’s kinda stupid

[ember storm]

Primordial light and darkness are now permanently linked, and volatile objects are spilling out into the universe

Anything and everything can tap into and utilize these

This is a very big issue

There are only three on our doorstep right now, which is leading to the three episodes

But the cutscene showed a lot more than 3

suffice to say, shit is about to go hard really fast

[raw hazel]

the fact Fikrul is going to get his hands on one is scary

[median steeple]

So if it’s just who wields the darkness or light that could be a threat, what are the chances of another power out there that is on the same level of dark and light

[ember storm]

you’re misunderstanding

It’s not “oh this enemy has stasis now”

Echoes are physical embodiments of primordial light and dark, at the same time, fused together

primordial light and darkness were previously only sourced from the traveler and veil themselves, nothing else

Now objects dispensing both at the same time are just being jettisoned across the universe

[median steeple]

So what could primordial light allow someone to do?

Or dark

[ember storm]

Remember Ghaul

He was tapping into the traveler’s light itself and bathed himself in it

He became an eldritch god made of pure light and could only be stopped by the traveler itself

Primordial darkness is what can lead to situations like the witness

Both at the same time is probably not good

[median steeple]

So in a way how you said it’s not “oh this enemy has stasis now” it basically is that, but instead it’s just way more serious

An enemy gains access to a power that they probably shouldn’t have

Which depending on the circumstances can either be a light or dark power

So I ask you again, what are the chances there’s something else out there on the level of light and dark

[chrome fog]

What the forces

Like

Just Light and Darkness

What

[median steeple]

Why does it have to be just light and dark

[ember storm]

I mean those are the two main components of the living universe

[chrome fog]

They encompass a pretty big portion of possible shit in existence

Like basically

Everything

[split viper]

This is the most stupidest thing I’ve ever read, no offense

[median steeple]

Why does all power have to derive from either the light or the dark

[analog torrent]

Is there a distinction between Forsaken and Season of the Outlaw lore or are they entwined? Does Outlaw refer to the Scorned Barons?

[median steeple]

Why can’t there be something else

[split viper]

It’s like saying “why does it have to be ying and yang” or why is there only day and night

[ember storm]

No

Well kinda

[analog torrent]

I mean
SIVA

[ember storm]

It wasn’t an official season

It was just the period of forsaken launch

There weren’t seasons then

[analog torrent]

Why's it called Outlaw?

[split viper]

Cause there’s nothing stronger than the two of these. It’s like using a ak47 against a e11 from Star Wars.

[ember storm]

There was the annual pass that released later, but they were also barely seasons

[ember storm]

Uldren and you

[analog torrent]

ohh

[gentle geyser]

So now that spoiler rule is gone, its safe to say that the winnower was 100% just the witness

[median steeple]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

[ember storm]

Uldren was an outlaw for slaughtering his own people and the murder of Cayde, among other things

[median steeple]

Just because it’s hasn’t been shown doesn’t mean it can’t exist

[chrome fog]

Tell me what else could be covered when we have all the forces of physics as well as psychic shit under our control

[analog torrent]

No
Raid lore says that the Witness is the first knife and not the Winnower

[ember storm]

You were an outlaw for going well past vanguard jurisdiction and going on a personal murder spree manhunt

[gentle geyser]

One of the dialogues from said raid is “you call us winnower”

[chrome fog]

I mean both of you could be right

[median steeple]

4th dimensional beings maybe idk

[analog torrent]

That's out of context
The next lines are something something "we are actually the first knife" lemme get the direct quotes

[chrome fog]

Yes, time travel, how the fuck do you implement time travel as a whole subclass without it being extremely broken if it is universally accessible

[analog torrent]

schizoposting guy has sources dating back years that the Witness is the first knife https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1dccavn/an_idea_so_violently_defended_it_became_real/

Actual quotes from the raid https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1dale9h/tfs_spoilers_major_lore_drop_in_recent_raid/

"You fear answers. Fear the truth you claim to seek"

Look beyond this dying garden...or rot in entropy"

"Each child we save from the game, you again force to play"

"You call us "Winnower". We are not... but the first knife clutched in it's hand"

"Gods forged us both. But they cannot tell the knife what shape to carve"

[median steeple]

The last thing you should be asking how Bungie is going to make lore and gameplay coincide

[gentle geyser]

I still feel like if the winnower exists that we would’ve gotten more, especially because this is the end of the light and dark saga

[ember storm]

they actually directly referenced stasis nerfs and buffs in lore

[analog torrent]

Unveiling isn't my specialty, I can't get more specific or engage in meaningful speculation

[ember storm]

It was stasis shifting and changing to make itself more appealing and applicable

[chrome fog]

Guess what they do all the time with the subclasses. Gimme a guess.

[fresh zephyr]

Its existence is straight up confirmed in the raid lorebooks.

[chrome fog]

Especially with the Darkness subclasses and Prismatic

[median steeple]

I don’t understand why you guys refuse to even think there’s even a slight possibility of something else

[chrome fog]

Then give a possible explanation. Your proposition is without basis and has no way of being rooted in what is currently possible by Guardians

[split viper]

Cause it’s literally not possible

It’s always 2 sided

[median steeple]

Even if it’s an artificial third paracausal force specifically crafted to oppose both light and dark

[split viper]

Light and Dark

[median steeple]

A grey area

[empty fern]

So, MayaayayaNsunderresh

[chrome fog]

What would be in opposition to controlling the physical and psychic domains of the universe

The juxtaposition doesn’t make sense

[median steeple]

That’s not up for me to decide

That’s up for Bungie to decide

[chrome fog]

Then suggest

Because it sounds nonsensical

Moreso than what is present in Destiny

[median steeple]

Traditionally speaking like someone said earlier it’s always been 2 forces

Yin and yang

Light and dark

But considering how destiny is hyper unrealistic who’s to say a third force can’t exist

[chrome fog]

Because what would that force even encompass

[analog torrent]

Can't play d2 rn but it'd be epic if she's fr the villain this season

[median steeple]

Lemme explain

[ember storm]

the basic fabric of reality

You need to understand what light and darkness are as forces before you can try theorizing what’s coming next

[empty fern]

Laskhmsi all over again

[ember storm]

Suffice to say, there is no hidden third secret power

There is the power of creation, matter, life

[analog torrent]

This time Exos are the ones getting axed
or mind-controlled, at least

[ember storm]

And the power of rot, mind, and death

There’s no inbetween for that

[median steeple]

Prismatic is simply wielding light and dark together but separately. You’re able to use them together but not create somehting new from it. What happens when you mix the 2 and create something entirely new from it. This isn’t something that sounds too crazy to think of

[chrome fog]

Then it’s just. Both of them

[empty fern]

Wonder what the anomaly artifact will be, a necklace? Fikrul has a re fashioned spear

[ember storm]

that is what prismatic is

that’s what the pink rainbow energy is

That’s prismatic

[analog torrent]

Maybe it's the weird crown halo thing in the key art

[ember storm]

A perfect mixture of light and darkness

[empty fern]

Pimk

[empty fern]

Maybe, also did you notice the xur tree at watchers grave lost its leaves?

[analog torrent]

no I haven't
I'll go check later

I don't think anyone has been on Nessus since Deep except for the Wicked Implement late stragglers lmao

[ember storm]

the basic gameplay loop of “oh I can use a select few light or dark melee or grenade” is not the stent of prismatic

it’s actual form is the pink energy

What you do when you transcend

What the Bound enemies shield themselves with

[median steeple]

Notice you can only transcend for a short amount of time

[empty fern]

Oh no

[median steeple]

So what if someone who passively transcended

[chrome fog]

Notice how you can only super once in a while

[median steeple]

Always active

[ember storm]

Notice how discipline is a stat

[median steeple]

Could you argue we haven’t fully mastered prismatic

[analog torrent]

Ok fuck it
Kinetic subclass
Your ability is you can shoot even more boolets

[empty fern]

You think Zavala Weil use strand in the future?

[empty fern]

Already done

[ember storm]

Quest log leading up to Salvation’s Edge had a marker for your % mastery of prismatic

We’re masters

[chrome fog]

That’s like saying because we don’t have super all the time active or subclass buffs active all the time we haven’t mastered those subclasses

[median steeple]

You guys speak as if the possibility of anything new coming to the game is unlikely

[raw hazel]

I still need to get microcosm

[chrome fog]

You’re just really bad at selling to us your idea

Mainly because the reasoning is “just because”

[empty fern]

Why is there this traveler shaped hole in the sky

[ember storm]

Why are the armed Eliksni guards still wearing their babies like bandoliers

[empty fern]

Field ra-

[ember storm]

nah

Ultimate protective vest

[chrome fog]

Not to mention the refusal to believe that lesser threats are still threats we must take care of as well

[median steeple]

Alright this was kinda funny

Wouldn’t say refuse

[fresh zephyr]

I mean....The Ahamkara and related entities exist, and they use something that isn't Light or Darkness as their abilities have never been defined by either and work completely differently. So there is pretty obviously something out there aside from Light and Darkness.

[empty fern]

Space dust, duh

[median steeple]

Exactly

[patent sand]

Ain’t no way saint and Osiris are dating

[chrome fog]

They are

Cry about it

[patent sand]

Tf

[chrome fog]

Did you not see the Plunder cutscene

[patent sand]

Nah

Shits funny😭😭

[chrome fog]

In what way

[median steeple]

They make it seem as if all strength derives from either light or dark

When I think they are mere tools

[patent sand]

In every way 😉

[chrome fog]

I mean. The fact that Ahamkara and other related beings (the Nine nonewithstanding) are noted to be paracausal in nature implies that it is still derivative of Light and Darkness, which fits in with Light being capable of physically changing reality and Darkness doing the same but for the mental

[median steeple]

They finna time yo ass out😭

[patent sand]

Timed out for saying something is funny?

[median steeple]

“IMPLIES”

An implication

Nothing more

[chrome fog]

Like heavily. It's still following the same conventions as other utilizations of Paracausality

Like the Traveler's terraforming

Or the Nightmares being manifestations of one's trauma

A granted wish bringing out desire to cause a change in reality, that fits both of those examples

[fresh zephyr]

Well, if Unveiling is in someway representative of the truth, in the beginning you have three distinct existences. You have the Gardener, the Winnower, and the Garden itself, which is described as the field of possibility. If LIght is from the Gardener, and Darkness from the Winnower, that leaves open the Garden itself, which is what is implied to be what birthed things like the Worms and Ahamkara.

[empty fern]

Oh no

Unveiling

[median steeple]

I love the way you think

The garden itself is in the middle

The power I’ve been referencing

[chrome fog]

That would still be Light and Darkness, and then regular ass physics

[lofty badge]

dating? they boyfriends bro

been for centuries

[patent sand]

This my first time seeing this I haven’t played in almost a year

[lofty badge]

kek

[chrome fog]

Paracausality is the possibility outside of set rules of the universe - aka physics

[fresh zephyr]

Personally, my theory is that the Garden's 'field of possibility' is baseline paracausality. The 'single force' theorized by Maya that Light and Darkness were divided from, with the division of that force caused by the Gardener and Winnower writing themselves into the rules of the game, and thus the Garden itself.

Paracausality isn't a set of rules outside of the universe. It is the rules. Light is said to basically be the fundamental force that underlies physics.

[chrome fog]

Oh man, I wish we still had the transcripts from before the last server wipe

[median steeple]

You’re speaking as if the rules of our irl universe have to also apply to the rules of a video games universe

[chrome fog]

What are Physics if not thus?

[analog torrent]

They’re straight up married lol
Hyperborean Pinion loretab

bound by sacred oath for life
loving mate or some shit

[chrome fog]

Like

Physics are the rules by which reality adheres to

[median steeple]

Physics are defied all the time in fantasy media

[lofty badge]

lol yeah

[chrome fog]

Constants by which reality interacts with itself

[mint spoke]

I wish destiny would reveal what some characters in the lore look like i wanna see what Shin looks like

[chrome fog]

And that's what Paracausality is

[median steeple]

You speak as if in destiny’s context paracausality only CAN operate within the use of light and dark powers

When in reality it can be anything

[mint spoke]

Is this canon shin or just fan art lol

[chrome fog]

Then again, I ask, what else can there be that isn't already covered by Light and Darkness? What more expressions of paracausality that exist outside of this dichotemy? Darkness even covers time travel, the Time Rifts opened on Mars demonstrate that enough, so does Deepsight reverting parts of Sav's Throneworld to what it was before she changed everything within it

What else is there to go to

[chrome fog]

From a grimoire, so it's canonical media, but it's doubtful thatis Shin's appearance

[mint spoke]

Thank you bro, so this is the closest we get?

[chrome fog]

Basically, and even then it could just be someone holding Last Word

[analog torrent]

That's a female Hunter so I doubt it lmao

[chrome fog]

I didn't want to assume but also I did think that was a female Hunter

[prisma solar]

So when you go stand on that highlighted spot, a series of codes start showing up just under the radar

I have tried a few decrypting languages but none of them yielded any meaningful result

[rapid mango]

would it be possible to put failsafe in an exo body?

[eager trout]

How come the Witness wasn't able to sense where the Veil was?

[rapid mango]

Savathun and the veil made it hard to do

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

[eager trout]

Ok, thanks

Where was that explained?

[chrome fog]

Winterbite quest

[mint spoke]

Pain i just want a cold shin pic for a pfp 🤣

[hardy heart]

look for a vex lookin thing nearby

when u go back it can be read

[ember storm]

No, not really

Her ai is that of a ship’s operating system, and its interfaced with the ship itself

[unkempt anvil]

I don’t remember why we are failsafes captain

[ember storm]

We don’t know how much of her is buried or how much of it would be needed to completely take “her” and put that somewhere else

There’s also the issue of how to manage to fit that into an exo frame, or where to even build one in the first place

[ember storm]

It was for the sake of getting to Cayde, Failsafe’s programming prohibited her from divulging too much to random passerby, so without anyone from her old crew to protest the command she internally promoted us to captain

Also is it failsafes old va or Ana’s new one, I can’t tell

[unkempt anvil]

Thank you

[silk gyro]

Do exos sleep?

[solar pawn]

if you mean powering down yes

[analog torrent]

A shit ton of cool lore only characters don’t have canon art (Micah-10 didn’t have one until they dropped Grimoire 6 in y6, for example)

Use whatever you want

[fresh zephyr]

Yes, they sleep and they can dream.

They are basically just humans in robot bodies made to be as close to human as possible in terms of function

Since if they don't, their minds reject being in the body and they basically go insane and die.

[solar pawn]

and if they do realize that they are not in their normal bodies they can be resetted at a bray tec lab

[silk gyro]

neat, thanks for the answers

[ember storm]

It’s not that, it’s their brain having an internal crisis and forcing a breakdown

And “can” isn’t really an option now

There are no active bray facilities that are safe to do so in

The reset is there to stave off DER (dissociative exomind rejection)

It cannot cure it

[neat gazelle]

I just had a great idea for d3, the main villain should be an old guardian who has gone rouge and gets one of the echoes and uses it to create his own version of ghosts

[ember storm]

If symptoms start, there isn’t an end

They just end up dying

[tawdry mauve]

its good we never let fans write stuff

[mint spoke]

Haha yeah man it sucks but this pfp will have to do 🔥

[neat gazelle]

Don’t lie, I cooked

[hardy heart]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-let-him-cook-cook-cooking-breaking-bad-gif-27522167

[chrome fog]

The ghosts part is dumb but there is Cyrell and Jana-14 at large, maybe we end up tracking them down for an episode

[neat gazelle]

Yeh i didn’t rly know what to put there are like an enemy race but i think having a rouge evil guardian as the next big bad could be interesting

[lofty badge]

how exactly did the Witness make the Tormentors and Subjucators from Rhulk and nezarec's "Imprents"

[chrome fog]

Cloning and genetics shenanigans

[daring crescent]

what would you guys say is the strongest super in lore?

[soft copper]

Would anyone be a doll and explain the fat ass hive worm in rhulks ship

I thought they was extinct

[faint ice]

I got no idea how they are gonna make a threat bigger than the witness for D3, but im sure they will do something great

[wintry moth]

Nova bomb ?

Might be wrong on that

[chrome fog]

Why would the Worms be extinct

And also that’s Xita, the Mother Worm

One of the worm gods

The one whom they took grafts of her flesh to produce the Worms that are within Hive

Worms can be brooded but Xita is the progenitor of them

She was also being burned as fuel for the Upended

[dim minnow]

BRO HOW DUD FAILSAFE NOT KNOW ABOUT ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED POST-ARRIVALS!

WIAT HOLD ON SHE LITERALLY KNOWS GLINTN HOW DID SHE NOT KNOW ABOUT CROW

Ok rechecked Tales of the Firgitten Vol 1, so Glint already had a previous history with Failsafe since he's known her at least 2 years before that book came out. Which I think means he's known her since at least some point in Y2 which may have been not long before he met Crow

[vital lodge]

SAINT IS AN EXO!?

[jagged badge]

Saint*-14* is an Exo yes

[vital lodge]

how did I never fuckin notice that

then again I dont do trials

[ember storm]

He literally has the robot filter

All exos have that

[dim bison]

i thought this was already estalblished fact

[dim bison]

if they have a number next to their name they are an exo

saint is his name and hes been rebooted 14 times

[devout vine]

Everyone I've spoken to says maya sundaresh is alive...
Which doesn't make sense since the only version that SHOULD exist of her was the simulated copies made on Venus prior to Maya and chioma arriving to Neptune

[ember storm]

Which are essentially comparable to Maya Sundaresh being alive

Despite the fact that Banshee is literally Clovis Bray’s mindscan, everyone treats the ai copy head on Europa as the real one

[vital lodge]

I know I just never noticed his somehow

[devout vine]

What do you think Maya's goal is?
Seems pointless since her work with the veil have her insights into dark pursuits.

But now the witness is dead, she compels the vex, to what end

[empty fern]

To pull a Saint during dawning

[eager trout]

Does being rezzed by a Ghost fix your mental problems or do you keep them despite not having memory of anything?

[devout vine]

I'd speculate it perhaps wipes that...
Since the travellers light creates new life and heals.

And the whole, lose your memory would enforce that

[ember storm]

There is nothing the light can do with the mind

Any and all thoughts and feelings you have before remain after a rez

[jade pelican]

Then explain to me how I rez after getting headshot in the crucible

[empty fern]

Back

[broken relic]

It would wipe specific memories that your mental problems may stem from but it won’t change your mind itself

[eager trout]

I mean like, rezzed for the first time when a Ghost chooses you

[jade pelican]

Ok

[ember storm]

Well, Crow even with Uldren’s memories shares none of his madness

[eager trout]

But wasn't his madness caused by the Darkness?

[ember storm]

it only worsened what was already there

his mental state was not healthy

his real breaking point came from the taken war and riven’s influence

[jade pelican]

If it’s caused by a physical alteration like a tumor, it’ll be fixed. Same thing with lost body parts. Actual mental illnesses not caused by trauma will stay

[ember storm]

there was one guardian plagued with delusions of fantasy realms and mythical creatures

[jade pelican]

Schizophrenia?

[ember storm]

he galavanted across plains claiming he was fighting dragons and beasts

when he ended up dying to his own actions, his ghost elected to never rez him again

[analog torrent]

Ah yes the don quixote guardian

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/whether-windmills-or-cranes#book-ghost-stories

literal direct reference yeah

still very fucked up

[hasty geode]

Why did we take a vow of silence

[chrome fog]

We didn’t, we’re just not talkative

[ember storm]

Are you thinking of Ikora’s ghost?

[hasty geode]

I dont know, we broke it after Caydes death but what is the origins of that vow our guardian took and why.

[ember storm]

It was not a vow of silence

There was no deep meaning

The voice actors just weren’t brought back until forsaken

[trim grotto]

We never had a Vow of Silence. That just... isn't a thing.

We just don't speak often.

[hasty geode]

oh

[spark steppe]

Who is this micah character and why do they talk like they're important

[acoustic trail]

so where the guys in neptune just chilling the whole time while earth was fighting the hordes of darkness?

[jagged badge]

She’s a pretty well known Hunter as part of the Six Coyotes group. She’s been around a long time

She’s also well known as a den-mother to unpaired Ghosts. Also notably in this situation, she shares a more unique connection to the Traveler which has helped us

[spark steppe]

are the six coyotes important

[jagged badge]

I dunno much about them myself but iirc they’re a pretty legendary group of Hunters

[spark steppe]

So do they ever actually partake in anything

or do they just exist to talk

[jagged badge]

What do you mean?

[chrome fog]

They mapped out much of the Cosmodrome as well as acting as scouts for establishing the Last Coty

[acoustic trail]

is neomuna floating?

[chrome fog]

Kinda sorta not really it’s on an island of diamonds and other consolidated materials

[weary vortex]

is it allowed to discuss the new season in here yet?

[acoustic trail]

is neptune still a gas giant? or was it terraformed solid?

[chrome fog]

Somewhat

[jagged badge]

No embargo on the season so go for it

[chrome fog]

But it wasn’t visited by the Traveler, it’s most likely the result of the SIVA nanotechnology

Which was its initial purpose

[chrome fog]

Because they’re important, what’s with the latter portion of this and the attitude

[weary vortex]

i am REALLY happy to hear failsafe so excited for once

[chrome fog]

Ooooooo

[weary vortex]

i know people disliked year 1's tone but i thought failsafe was an exception

[trim grotto]

Well, they were on an Exodus ship that crashed there during the Collapse. But otherwise, pretty much, yes.
Though, they have been dealing with Vex the entire time, too.

[spark steppe]

It's more they're kinda annoying to listen to without knowing who they are and i've never seen them before

[trim grotto]

Shinobu's Vow and the Sixth Coyote are both Exotics owned by members of the Six Coyotes, for example

[spark steppe]

I knew about the chest piece by name but that's my extent of knowing the name "sixth coyote"

[acoustic trail]

that dreadnaught is bigger than the entire city lol

[trim grotto]

The main thing to know is her unique relationship with unpaired Ghosts, earning her the title of Den-Mother-Of-Ghosts. They flock to her, and in turn, she helps them find their Chosen. She's always had a unique connection to them, and protects them from Cyrell, the Ghost Hunter.

[trim grotto]

It's pretty big, yeah.

[snow citrus]

iirc they were the first to explore and map out the Cosmodrome, but a lot of their fame was strictly a lorebook thing and this is the first time we've ever seen them do anything on-screen.

Six Coyotes are a pretty fucking big deal though. Like, you know the Hunter symbol? Those six dashes are meant to represent each of the six coyotes. A big majority of the Hunter population idolizes them.

[trim grotto]

As far as I am aware, that's never actually stated anywhere - unless it's new lore, of course. For some reason, we only know about the Titan's logo.

[snow citrus]

Huh

Interesting

Give me a moment

Ok yeah the hunter symbol thing is just speculation, but I think the part about them being idolized is still true

[eager trout]

What exactly was the Whirlwind?

[eager trout]

I think I read it was indeed done by the Traveler, but it wasn't organized.

[trim grotto]

The Collapse, but for the Eliksni.

[acoustic trail]

what are all they yellow ghost things around neptune?

they look like cybernetic spirits

[trim grotto]

The citizens connected to the CloudArk. They're digital avatars.

[acoustic trail]

so no actual people walk the streets?

[chrome fog]

I mean those are the actual people, but technically speaking no there isn't

[acoustic trail]

i mean theyre in like some pod connected to vr

[eager trout]

But what caused it and what exactly happened? The cutscene doesn't show them being attacked

[trim grotto]

Not right now, since there's a war going on in those streets.

[grand jungle]

So the wittness says his the knife who y’all think holds him?

[eager trout]

How was the Witness able to bring Eramis and Praksis back?

[empty fern]

Witness magic

[chrome fog]

It’s possible it holds itself

I’m too tired and need to do stuff before the deadline

But Mael should be able to cite

[worldly river]

Why am I so invested in Saint and Osiris's relationship goddamnit

The tab for the Echoes ship is so damn sweet it's got me grinning like an idiot

[woeful stream]

They're really cute together

[trim grotto]

Eramis was never dead, she was frozen, and Praksis became a Scorn.

[trim grotto]

The Black Fleet (and maybe Hive), just like us.

[analog torrent]

Have you read the Ronin Shell lore? They mentioned part of it in this week's radio message

At least they're having a happy time, unlike the other destiny couples lol

[eager trout]

Until you see Osiris without headgear

[analog torrent]

bald mf headass

[worldly river]

Yeah I read that one before the ship, thankfully

Which was after the radio message

Perfect order, really

Also the tab for the Echoes Scout
It's so nice reading a lore tab of Zavala relaxing for the first time in... Years, at least

Just vibing, knitting a sweater
Given the cutscene at the end of TFS I'm betting Caitl picked it up from him
Not sure if Saladin was helping or doing his own, cuz I could see Zavala learning it from Saladin and her asking Saladin to teach her

[gritty vector]

Wait is Saint 14 a exo?

[trim grotto]

That's where the 14 comes from

[gritty vector]

Oh

[empty fern]

Nah it’s just 14 Russians in a suit

[trim grotto]

Banshee-44, Ada-1, Lakshmi-2, Micah-10... and Saint-14.

[analog torrent]

I think that bungie writer had a point when he said you have to use Word of God to tell players things directly because otherwise you get scenarios like this

[trim grotto]

Dictates the version/reset the Exo is on

[gritty vector]

I genuinely thought Saint 14 was just some Russian dude

[trim grotto]

Well, he is also that.

Exo are human minds uploaded into an Exobody.

[gritty vector]

So they can live forever?

[trim grotto]

Hypothetically, yes. That was, in fact, the point.

All living (non-Risen) Exo survived the Collapse

[analog torrent]

I wonder how long the Exos are going to live. Probably forever, right? As long as they keep on top of caring for them… but I guess eventually, their hard drives would get erased by cosmic rays. Papa says that doesn't happen for thousands of years. Plenty of time for backups.
Letter 4

[hearty dagger]

Guardian Exos don't need to reset right?

[gritty vector]

I'm pretty sure they don't need a reset from the 10 hour lore video I watched

[trim grotto]

We've seen a Ghostless Guardian be reset before, but not while they have Light, no.

[analog torrent]

Yeah that makes me wonder
Why don't Guardian Exos need to reset? I don't believe Ghosts can cure mental conditions but dysphoria/whatever DER is seems to be a mental condition

[woeful stream]

Ya lol

[analog torrent]

Who was it?

[gritty vector]

So like are Osiris and saint a thing or just bros

[analog torrent]

Very much a thing

[hearty dagger]

Maybe it's because the condition isn't fully mental?

Or it has something to do with the fact that they know they've died so the issue isn't present anymore?

[gritty vector]

I thought the ghost whips you're memory

[hearty dagger]

It does, but the first thing that it tells you is that you were dead.

[analog torrent]

It does, but Exos are a lil weird
Cayde remembers flashes from the earlier iterations of Cayde, for example

[hearty dagger]

Maybe the Memory wipe has something to do with it, after all it's basically what reseting does to an Exo.

[gritty vector]

Don't exos start having problems after so many resets

Like with banshee?

[hearty dagger]

Yea, though Banshee is an extreme example

[gritty vector]

Well he's always saying he's forgetting

[hearty dagger]

Yes, but Exos don't usually get reset that many times.

[analog torrent]

Here are some snippets

Immolant pt 2: But there is one where Osiris finds happiness. He finds a time away from strife. He finds Saint—a dream of warm serenity. The peace to his purpose. With Saint, there is a future that could have been enough.

Hyperborean pinion: with his companion, sharp and bold, bound by sacred oath for life. And when he meets his end too soon, his loving mate is left alone

Targeted Redaction: On a rooftop overlooking an empty, tree-lined plaza, Saint and Osiris sit in contemplative silence. They are making time for one another in the margins of their lives, pushing responsibilities aside as much as they can.

The Call: Saint wants to fight, but it is one battle he knows he will not win. Instead, he lifts the hand he holds to his mouth and presses a kiss to Osiris's knuckles.

[analog torrent]

Echo-2625 supremacy

[hearty dagger]

Very much married.

Have referred to each other as their husband in the past.

[gritty vector]

I missed to much destiny lore 😭

[hearty dagger]

Yea, it was explicitly stated at some point during Season of the Lost.

[analog torrent]

Fr? I've been linking people the Hyperborean Pinion loretab cause I couldn't find harder evidence of a marriage than that

[gritty vector]

I stopped playing after like Shadowkeep I lost hope in destiny after that terrible campaign

[hearty dagger]

Saint calls Osiris his husband on several occasions, I'm pretty sure

[gritty vector]

They need a proper wedding

[hearty dagger]

They literally kiss in one of the hand drawn CGs from lost.

[hearty dagger]

I'm pretty sure they have

We just weren't resurrected yet.

[analog torrent]

Borderlands Guns, Love, & Tentacles style
Exotic mission where Saint and Osiris are renewing their vows but due to Savathun shenanigans or some shit the wedding is disturbed and we have to go on a wild goose chase and get a gun as a reward

[hearty dagger]

Also fun fact, Eramis is also gay.

[gritty vector]

The giant fallen lady?

[hearty dagger]

She has a wife. Infact she's currently trying to find her at the moment.

[analog torrent]

Wife took the kids 😢

[hearty dagger]

Mhm, that's part of where her rage against the traveler comes from, it abandoned her wife and her children.

[empty fern]

Micah and cayde development whe- oh,

Don’t copium me

[hearty dagger]

There are several LGTBQ+ characters in Destiny.

[snow citrus]

Occasional reminder that Oryx is canonically trans

[hearty dagger]

Yea, that one is probably the most suprising.

[analog torrent]

He... helped me. When my fathers were away on work, Cayde would talk to me. Play cards. Teach me how to cope with isolation.

Cayde doesn't remember. And... that's OK.

I can hug him, one last time. And remind him that he was missed. That he saved me.

Every bit of Cayde lore is either up there in the top 10 Destiny lore funnies compilation or a modern day Shakespearan tragedy

[empty fern]

You think shaw is just forgotten?

[gritty vector]

Is it bad I thought Saint and Osiris where just bros who flirted

[hearty dagger]

The least surprising is that the Drifter is Pan.

[analog torrent]

dude's fireteam got permakilled by a wizard
He's not him

[empty fern]

But

Well from a golden gun

[gritty vector]

Didn't his first fire team leave him to die

[analog torrent]

My brother in Christ,

[gritty vector]

Nah they just bros 💯💯

[analog torrent]

Season finale cutscene for season 18

[snow citrus]

What, you don’t kiss the homies goodnight?

(Joke)

[analog torrent]

Just givin your homies a smooch goodnight 💯

[snow citrus]

Wait I actually did not know this

[hearty dagger]

Shaw Han is just a normal guardian. Like we're so used to the most powerful guardians being our friends that we mock the only named normal guardian we've met.

[analog torrent]

As Ikora Rey says: Skill Issue

[hearty dagger]

It was posted in a Bungie "these characters are LGTBQ+" post awhile back before Lightfall.

[snow citrus]

I see

[gritty vector]

Why is every vanguard member bald

[analog torrent]

Tallulah Fairwind (probably) and Andal Brask had hair

[hearty dagger]

Same reason Saitama is bald.

To have power you must lose your hair.

[snow citrus]

||Well depending on if you already saw the end of the campaign or not, not every member is bald anymore||

[hearty dagger]

Think about it, Saint and Osiris are also bald.

[gritty vector]

I'm talking about ikora and zavala

And cade

Idk how to spell

[hearty dagger]

||Give it time, he'll fall in line||

[analog torrent]

Has Drifter been with any dudes? He and Eris have a thing going on, he was into Orin at one point and probably dated her, he asked out Efrideet, but can't think of any dudes

[gritty vector]

What campaign?

The final shape?

[snow citrus]

||Final Shape||

[empty fern]

I’m gonna

[gritty vector]

Oh nah I'm broke give me 3 months to afford it

[worldly river]

It's worth noting that somewhere in TFS it's directly mentioned that Ghost resurrection happens via grabbing a specific physical moment of someone's life, at the height of their abilities (ie you could die and be resurrected younger than the moment you died)

[hearty dagger]

No idea. We've been told that Drifter is Pan, and I'm not suprised by this fact.

[snow citrus]

Someone should photoshop hair onto Zavala

[hearty dagger]

||I'm getting the Razor.||

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/zavalla-s37-gif-25137899

There

[worldly river]

It's possible that with Guardians not aging Exos are able to essentially be held in a specific physical state which prevents the degradation that necessitates resets

[analog torrent]

Tyra Karn got fucked hard by her Ghost then lol

[snow citrus]

Makes me wonder who tf Osiris was in his past life when he seems to be resurrected well into his middle/old ages

[snow citrus]

This

[hearty dagger]

cursed

[snow citrus]

Is less cursed than I thought it would be

[empty fern]

It’s old

[analog torrent]

Zavala is canonically capable of and has grown facial hair

[hearty dagger]

It's because it's facial hair and not a full head of hair.

[snow citrus]

I know he grows a beard in Dark Future

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/zavala-indeed-destiny-destiny2-vanguard-gif-10013199

[analog torrent]

"Empress Caiatl, to what do I owe the pleasure?" Zavala asked, tiredly scratching a hand over his stubble. Targe watched for a moment before he dematerialized.

Zavala hairless by choice 🎉

[empty fern]

Caitl knitting image here

[worldly river]

I wish I could remember where this was so I could double check the exact wording

[hearty dagger]

I LOVE THIS IMAGE SO MUCH

[analog torrent]

I just found another oen

[worldly river]

I think it was the tab where a Ghost is periodically chronicling their journey to find their Guardians, it's marked by days, and at one point they get shot at and drop to the ground to hide for like a week and admire the ants

[worldly river]

Ghaul just seething in the back lmao

[snow citrus]

It is a top-tier image, but I am a bigger fan of the Saint and Osiris one

[hearty dagger]

Oh I agree.

[snow citrus]

Wait wait wait hang on I wanna read this

Where can I find it?

[snow citrus]

Oh no.

[gritty vector]

Someone wanted it

[snow citrus]

He lost all his aura 😭

[worldly river]

^

[hearty dagger]

My favorite soft moment in destiny is probably the Eliksni ordering Ramen.

[gritty vector]

Should add a beard

[analog torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/final-fantasy-vii-remake-cloud-strife-tifa-lockhart-aerith-gainsborough-cloti-gif-27060423

[worldly river]

Was just saying idr, it was in TFS though so either one of the guns, the armor, or a lore book

[analog torrent]

That's the second installment in a 5-part loretab series where a human mob tries to lynch him 😭

[snow citrus]

I’m so fucking sad that Eliksni had a bad ending

[hearty dagger]

Wait what?

[snow citrus]

Im pretty sure bro gets actually murdered

[analog torrent]

No he lived

[snow citrus]

I see

[snow citrus]

Oh that was another one

[hearty dagger]

It seemed like it was just a story about how food can bring people together

[analog torrent]

It was more than 5 parts, gimme a sec

[hearty dagger]

Chroma Rush's Lore tab didn't even name them.

[snow citrus]

Do you think the Cabal like ramen too

If we ever ally with Luzaku, do you think the Hive would like ramen

[analog torrent]

Sojourner's Tale - Spider discovers that Crow stole a shipment from him and donated it to Misraaks in the name of Spider.
Beneath the Endless Night: III - Gifts from the Shore - Amanda Holliday and Saint-14 unpack supplies sent from Spider (requisitioned by Crow). Amanda accidentally teaches an Eliksni a bad word.
Chroma Rush - An Eliksni learns to eat ramen.
Shattered Cipher - A daughter walks in on her mother and her associates packing up to flee the City after they attempted to lynch the ramen Eliksni.
Riiswalker - Aisha saves an Eliksni from being lynched by an angry mob, only for him to spurn her for her use of Stasis.
Beneath the Endless Night: V - Fractures - Crow stops a bunch of Humans from ransacking the Botza District.

[gritty vector]

Ramen

[snow citrus]

Minor detail: that same Eliksni then said that bad word to the ramen shop owner, because Amanda covered herself by saying it was a nice word for nice people

I believe