📚lore-discussion

[empty fern]

The first mission was finding this cult area and her shell (we do some stuff and she layer possesses our ghost)

[dim minnow]

she was still alive actually

just... out

[empty fern]

Nuh uh, I’ll make sure of it

[dim minnow]

the device the Osiris cultists made brought her back, but made her possess our Ghost

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2ghost-gif-25772209

Wait, was this scene taking place in Vog? Templars room?

[compact sky]

pretty sure

[empty fern]

Neat

[chrome fog]

We don't know who the first Lightbearer is

[empty fern]

What about the first guardian (would we include pilgrim guard or after)

[chrome fog]

Also to elaborate on Jude's part, we learned of her death in weblore on Bungie's website

[chrome fog]

Where would you delineate the transition from Iron Lords and other defensive orders to the establishment of the Vanguard, which includes the Guardian title? We do not have information on the first Vaguard Guardian recruit

[shadow crypt]

Another question

Was Rasputin an ally or foe?

[empty fern]

Wouldn’t Zavala be the first since he’s (I think) the first vanguard (and made the wall)

[chrome fog]

Not only is he the second Vanguard leader, Saint-14 was the first Vanguard before him

[empty fern]

Oh yea

[compact sky]

do we know how big the Last City is?

[chrome fog]

Not really

[empty fern]

Atleast 2 football fields

[compact sky]

seems a bit small for the last bastion of humanity

[chrome fog]

There have been some calculations but we don't know; plus proportions are not consistent from visual presentations

[empty fern]

You’d be surprised how many people you can squish in there

[chrome fog]

They're massively underestimating

[quartz dirge]

How dangerous was siva?

[empty fern]

Enough to control the actions of some guardians (atleast physical puppetry) and, uhhh gimme a bit to think (don’t know if I should include fallen usage of it or it by itself)

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-rise-of-iron-gaming-gif-6027234

[quartz dirge]

I'm watching Byf's 10 hour lore video and I'm at the siva part

[empty fern]

Keep watching I guess?

[dim minnow]

ally

but he was very keen on keeping to himself for a while

[chrome fog]

It was possible to reconstruct and physically morph stuff, which includes Ghosts. Which is how the Iron Lords in the Replication Chamber died centuries ago when Rasputin controlled SIVA to destroy them. Now consider the possible weaponized uses of nanotechnology that can turn you into a hulking puppeteered golem even if you were a Lightbearer

To a normal human, it could just literally make it so your cells become cancerous cells

[chrome fog]

Btw we fight these, one of them have Felwinter's helm in it

[empty fern]

Oh?

[chrome fog]

(Or well people that played Rise of Iron.)

[chrome fog]

Isn't it one of the enemies?

[empty fern]

Like did felwinter model actually have the helm on it

[chrome fog]

https://www.destinypedia.com/Remnant_of_Felwinter

[analog torrent]

You fight Felwinter yeah but I think this was before they had a legit model for Felwinter
so this model was not an Exo and also didn't have his helmet

[chrome fog]

I think someone posted a screenshot where you could see it but idk

[empty fern]

Fuuuu, brb

Ew look at their cancer feet

(Yea I couldn’t find anything about the helm itself being on the corpse)

[chrome fog]

(Fair, seemed like one of those things people imagined and got widely shared)

[empty fern]

[fallow spoke]

so i didn't play lightfall and just watched final shape trailer

why is a former vanguard leader alive

[covert stone]

We're not 100% sure yet

[fallow spoke]

okies

[chrome fog]

Got some guesses

But also like the narrative from Lightfall and its seasons are necessary for understanding the conflict we are entering into in Final Shape

[fallow spoke]

im debating getting final shape. lightfall initial player reviews weren't great so i didn't take the plunge. Final shape looks to be fun though

[chrome fog]

And these are not unfounded;

Season of the Deep, the exotic ship you got from levelling up the season vendor was titled Akashic Revelation, is also from the perspective of that one Guardian that attempted to enter the portal on the Traveler. Drawing from the entry and the referenced "Akashic Records" in its ship name and the description of the Pale Heart, we theorized that the Cayde we see in the teaser was some sort of Memory (a cleansed Nightmare, which we see in Season of the Haunted) with a physically recreated body.

Season of the Wish, another exotic ship that makes it seem like Riven took an inocuous wish from Crow and granted it

[chrome fog]

It's fine, the content creators were just overblowing how bad the expansion was, it was fine at best, mid at worst

Strand is also fun

[fallow spoke]

i haven't watched a streamer play this game in my life

just forums and discords and such people didn't seem to have high opinion

but thank you. I'll prolly take the plunge this time. Said former vanguard leader and this transcendence system seems intriguing enough

[trim grotto]

Fun gameplay
Middling story
Thats the gist of it

Final Shape looks to be doing very well for story and gameplay both

[chrome fog]

Ain't the only content creators, there's the YouTube channels and all that as well, those on social media, wherever

[fallow spoke]

well like i said i only looked on here and D2 LFG mostly and a few forums.

[chrome fog]

They're still big voices within the community and their opinions reverberat and echo throughout, now that time has passed these opinions have mostly simmered and people have realized it's not that bad of an expansion. Not great, but not completely awful

Even if you personally don't pay attention to them, other members of the playerbase are and they end up adopting the same views and opinions

[fallow spoke]

eh ill prolly check out final shape regardless, although maybe not first week. It's end of a 10 year saga right?

[gentle geyser]

Yes

[plain vessel]

I still really think we need some eliksni lightbearers, maybe variks or Mithrax

Lorewise we haven’t had one at all (if i remember clearly)

We’ve had only hive lightbearers, no cabal or eliksni

[gentle geyser]

They would need to die for either of them to even become one

[plain vessel]

Kill variks in final shape, could work

[gentle geyser]

Who cares about variks

[plain vessel]

I do

But eramis could maybe MAYBE be a fit for it, I don’t even know if she died after defiance

Isn’t she just still wandering?

Like Isn’t eramis going after athrys and Riis

[gentle geyser]

Eramis is done

[plain vessel]

Damn they really Just let her go?

[gentle geyser]

She also just doesn’t need a redemption or deserve one

[plain vessel]

I mean it’s fitting, she’s probably dead already

I’ve also been wondering about the defiance cutscenes with the hostages after Amanda and all

Mithrax leaving the cave and the stasis pillars from eramis, she did she just, leave.

I mean I get it and all with her not really having a big role in Def and still being an opponent to Mithrax, but the entire thing of her almost, helping him in a way, just strange

Might have to rewatch it and look back over defiance as a whole

[fiery vector]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the witness have the same mission as lord business from the lego movie?

[fallow spoke]

for those of us who dont have kids, what would that mission be?

[dim minnow]

freezing everything in a perfect form

[shadow crypt]

What do you mean by this?

[dim minnow]

he did kept himself locked away from everyone

very isolationist

[fallow spoke]

the witness is supposed to the big bad right but obviously someone set him/her on this path

[dim minnow]

the Witness chose its own path

it just heavily corrupted itself

[fallow spoke]

hrmmn........there has to be another force at work though right? otherwise, destiny dead

[trim grotto]

Certainly not
This is but one arc of the story

[fallow spoke]

yall some die hards 🙂

[trim grotto]

The Hive, both Lucent and not, are still in play. Xivu Arath, their God of War, is active. The Vex? We've only ever stalled them.

[trim grotto]

Some of us have become quite invested in the lore and the story, sure. But truly, there is more to see. We already know there is more to come.

[dim minnow]

@trim grotto play garlic phone with us

link in media chat

[trim grotto]

Also, it would be incredibly cheap to drop another big bad of all time on top of the one we are finally dealing with after ten years

[trim grotto]

Literally still at work, sorry

[fallow spoke]

i mean that's how games usually work

[raw hazel]

To be fair this isn’t most games.

Will there be more threats? Obviously, it’s still a shooty shooty game. Do they need to be a new ultimate big bad right off the bat? Not really.

[fallow spoke]

whose to say the witness is an ultimate big bad comparatively though?

[raw hazel]

[trim grotto]

We've got ten years worth of lore that's deeper than many other games. Unless you're betting real hard on the concept of the Winnower being a specific being, we've had no evidence of a separate, superior being other than the largely inanimate Veil.

[raw hazel]

The Witness is quite literally the ultimate villain and driver of practically all of the game’s major events and conflict.

[trim grotto]

So, as far as the community goes without delving into the Spinfoil... we're to say. Not to brag too heavily, but between the lore regulars here and in other communities (such as Ishtar and the Cryptarchy), our collective knowledge covers the vast majority of the game.

[dim minnow]

literally every bad thing can be traced back to the WItness in some way

this is a challenge

[trim grotto]

The chain of events even affects the largely independent Cabal, even without factoring in Torobatl's collapse.

[raw hazel]

And this is an antagonist, even ignoring the fact it’s responsible for the Collapse, which had had like 3 or 4 years of direct buildup more or less.

[trim grotto]

Primary buildup for four years, secondary for six.

Consecutively, mind you.

[raw hazel]

Barring some like, surprise Winnower reveal (which don’t get me wrong would be really fucking cool), dropping a new big bad immediately afterward without letting the fallout play out would just be strange.

[trim grotto]

I don't think anyone would like that if it wasn't done incredibly well.

[raw hazel]

Exactly.

[plain vessel]

That’s literally what destiny is.

A "chosen one" who can construct anything with special powers finds out there's an entity threatening their existence, so they team up with old and new allies and enter a new world to stop the larger-than-life being from using a mysterious device to freeze the universe in its current state into a perfect, static final shape. That is literally what the Lego movie and destiny is.

[fallow spoke]

will be interesting to see how they play it. introducing an entirely new chain of villains is gonna be tough at first unless done really well, like it would have to be done really if they present a higher big bad over the witness

[gentle geyser]

I don’t even need to read the message to be able to sum this up, bungie likes making the player character the most important character

[plain vessel]

Yes.

[gentle geyser]

The player is the hero in bungie games

[plain vessel]

I hope they just kill us at the end and dinklebot revives us

[fresh zephyr]

The Witness could literally melt you into a puddle right now if it wanted to lil bro

[fallow spoke]

pretty sure the witness is gonna melt a lot of people as soon as the raid releases, but cool bro

[fresh zephyr]

The Witness can melt everyone, everywhere. It ignored the entire space battle, because it didn't care.

[fallow spoke]

and when did you accept the Witness as your lord and saviour?

[fresh zephyr]

After Beyond Light

[glacial chasm]

What is the witness actually doing that’s bad? I’m asking this question because of the offline servers prompt, something about ending suffering and why we resist. What’s so bad about the witness wanting to end suffering?

[dim minnow]

the Witness' idea of what suffering is and what it considers salvation are...

[glacial chasm]

Is it something like getting rid of us?

[fresh zephyr]

Darwinism but 100x worse

[dim minnow]

not even that

like imagine if everything was just turned into a cut-up statue

[fresh zephyr]

Jesus

Also yeah that server offline message is scary as fuck

[glacial chasm]

So basically the thought is to just kill everything and it’ll be peace

[dim minnow]

the Witness believes that just living and such is a type of suffering purely because something bad can happen to you at any point

[glacial chasm]

Ohh ok thanks, very good explanation

[dim minnow]

also, it gained a very crippling hatred towards anything related to the Traveler

[kindred fractal]

maybe the real final shape was the friends we made along the way

[dim minnow]

because it thinks the Light (and the Traveler by proxy) is the root of all suffering

[kindred fractal]

wouldnt it think that just existing is suffering?

[fallow spoke]

always the plot hole. Villain doesn't acknowledge the hypocrisy of it's own mission, versus it's current existence

[fresh zephyr]

Bruh

[dim minnow]

not really a plot hole, the Witness just messed itself up mentally so much that it kind of became unknowingly contradictory

but it was just so powerufl that it couldn't be rivaled

Entelechy would explain this better than I could

[fallow spoke]

yall are pretty lore devout. Where does it say any of this in game, specifically

[dim minnow]

for starters there is the Witness origins cutscene

then there is the Entelechy book which came with the Final Shape Collector's Edition

which you can read if you look in the pins

[fresh zephyr]

Do you like Destiny?

[fallow spoke]

nah hate destiny, im just here for the conversation

[fresh zephyr]

I wonder if there will be any Vex in the Pale Heart

[fallow spoke]

ahhh so not in game specifically, but if you pay a premium you get some more lore

[blazing stream]

You know what annoys me and never got explained? Lightfall Trailer showed Rohan shoot and hit a pyramid ship with Quicksilver and it never appeared ingame

[fresh zephyr]

It probably happened in the background. There are tons of splinters surrounding the Typhon Imperator

[blazing stream]

You'd think that'd be an important detail considering the only things able to damage them is paracausal super attacks

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah, but like they arrived alongside Calus. This is probably the start of the invasion.

Or it could also just be marketing

[blazing stream]

That was a direct hit, thing is about the pyramids, they don't let things hit them, they teleport incoming projectiles to another dimension to safely detonate them

Would've been cool though if they explained "Quicksilver's ability to replicate and divide being faster than the Pyramid's ability to teleport it away, essentially nullifying the Pyramid's teleportation force field"

Because Quicksilver is SIVA's updated successor

[fallow spoke]

got a year of content for that to be explained

[blazing stream]

More like tying up loose ends and then waiting a long time for Bungie to get bored of Marathon and come back to Destiny

[fallow spoke]

isn't that technically a loose end?

[trim grotto]

We have full transcripts of it, so no need.

Lore for this game is rather spread out. Missions, lore tabs on armour, items, weapons, exotics, lore books, external CE and Grimoire, Bungie Web posts, environmental storytelling, so on so forth
I've been learning the lore for years and there's still more to learn
It's great fun

I'll be back at home in an hour or so, so I can go into detail on whatever if you're interested in a specific topic

[little gorge]

we've seen vex in trailers

interestingly they aren't sol divisive

[split viper]

Prob expected

Each world always has 2 types of factions iirc, so it’s gonna be the dread and the vex

And the new episode is based on the vex

[dim minnow]

we also got Lucent Brood and Taken

Scorn maybe?

[quartz dirge]

Are bigger ships not capable of faster than light speed travel?

[dim minnow]

as far as we know, we not NLS (Near Light Speed)

though travel time doesn't matter too much when you got literal portals

Ascendant Plane travel is a bit weird since it relies a lot on willpower and such

[quartz dirge]

Wait, everytime we travel we're going through a portal rather than just going FTL?

Like when you go from Earth to Mars

[dim minnow]

no, not us

our jumpships use NLS drives

[quartz dirge]

So I'm assuming other species don't have that

[dim minnow]

at least I think they do

it's a little difficult finding out what exactly we use for space travel

Hive use Ascendant Plane to Travel
Awoken sort of do the same

Vex rewrite history to teleport around

not sure what Cabal and Eliksni use

[quartz dirge]

Basically I'm wondering why Oryx, Ghaul, and the Black Fleet just drifted through space towards Earth instead of just jumping like us if they could

[dim minnow]

well, Ascendant Plane travel is not that simple

it requires a strong will to traverse through it like that

granted Oryx had that, but taking such a large fleet to and from the Ascendant Plane is no simple task anyhow

[quartz dirge]

Hmmm that might be it, fleets just too big

[dim minnow]

Ghaul's arrival was probably from regular travel time of what Cabal use

perhaps also took some time to plan his attack as well

s for the Witness, maybe we'll get an actual answer soon

[quartz dirge]

I'm watching Byf's 10 hour lore video and all our enemies never just teleport all their forces to Sol lol

[dim minnow]

also distance/technological limitations perhaps

[twilit vapor]

i have some questions about the hive, are the worms that are inside the hive the same/similar to the worm gods? and do the little worms grant the hive their strength/power?

[jagged badge]

The worms grant the Hive their strength and in turn the Hive feeds the worm through killing, which makes the Hive get stronger over time but also incrementally increases the worm’s hunger

Which is the problem Savathûn faced. Eons of death and deceit left her with a worm whose hunger was outgrowing her ability to feed it

[twilit vapor]

so each hive has a little worm right?

[jagged badge]

Yes

[twilit vapor]

when the hive get stronger do they “move up the ranks” eg thrall to acolyte to knight?

[jagged badge]

Yeah

[viral cedar]

Is cayde 6 alive?

[jagged badge]

He’s back within the Pale Heart but we do not yet know the exact circumstances and extent of this

[viral cedar]

What is the pale earth

[jagged badge]

The Pale Heart is a domain inside the Traveler within which the Witness is using the powers of Light and Darkness to reshape reality, calcifying it into a Final Shape

[modern lodge]

Have you but been following the story?

[viral cedar]

No

[modern lodge]

:[

[viral cedar]

Oh the rainbow triangle on the traveller ?

[jagged badge]

The portal leads to the Pale Heart yeah

[viral cedar]

Oh ok thx

[jagged badge]

The Witness created it in Lightfall and we’ve spent a year and a half pretty much figuring out how to follow it inside

Because when we tried the first time it uhh, didn’t go so well

[versed orbit]

Some people died

[jagged badge]

Poor Joxer

[versed orbit]

Bro got cleaved in half

[sick yew]

Bro never recovered mentally from that gambit prime match

[exotic cloak]

Can someone remind me why Nezarec is just uglier Rhulk

[sick yew]

What

[versed sierra]

so, why IS cayde alive again? Do we know?

[sick yew]

Dont think we do yet

Gotta find that out in a couple of hours im sure

[exotic cloak]

They both are pretty similar and I think someone here suggested Nezarec was something like a clone

[sick yew]

Theyre not that similar at all

[versed sierra]

Alright! Cheers

[sick yew]

🤝

@exotic cloak maybe check if Byf or sum has a video on Nezzys past but I personally dont think theyre similar

[exotic cloak]

Wait Cayde's resurrection wasn't like suggested in unforeseen consequences?

Something about Crow wishing he could apologize

[sick yew]

Possibly

Dont think we know for sure yet

[versed sierra]

As we enter the final shape and probvaly the raid as well, im hearing more talk of the uppender, and other titles I have no idea what they mean. Anything I should know about the whole witness story, terminology etc so the story makes sense at@least?

[sick yew]

You mean the Upended?

thingy from Vow?

Cause if memory serves me correct thats the superweapon we fight Rhulk on thats powered by the worm mother

Its what they use to "steal" planets

[versed sierra]

Ah i see. Also, what is The Deep? (Drowning in it)

I believe it was capitalised, that’s all

[sick yew]

I think that was just a figure of speech for darkness

Dont quote me on that one

[versed sierra]

Lord, the lore of this game is sick

[sick yew]

Agreed

Theres some really cool stuff

[modern lodge]

BYF 10 HOUR VID RIGHT NOW

[sick yew]

lol

[next bobcat]

@trim grotto you know how when you try to get onto D2 right now it comes up with a message saying the servers are down and then the words “we offer salvation. Why do you resist?” 4th wall break???

[jagged badge]

I don’t think it’s that serious

[trim grotto]

[jagged badge]

It’s just a fun little thing for us

[next bobcat]

Yeah i guess

Puts an image in my mind

“Witness, we’re coming for you.”

“Aight gimme 24 hours to prepare”

“What?”

“Yeah just finishing touches and stuff. You guys know I want the final shape to be super crazy”

[ruby pivot]

inside the traveler, ill assume traveler is like a system where it saves/archived the people who is under it or anything that it has touched

its what i think why cayde is alive inside the traveler, and probably a moving museum

[trim grotto]

there's a missing piece here, and it's unforseen consequences
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/unforeseen-consequences

[sick yew]

Traveler is a datafortress confirmed

[trim grotto]

while the interior of the traveler is being formed from various memories, unforseen consequences explains why cayde-6 specifically, and apparently nobody else, has appeared as a person

[modern lodge]

What's an eliksni lifespan

[sick yew]

Long

Very long

Just look at Variks

bros been around since before the Whirlwind and hes still alive and kicking

Its very likely their exposure to the Travelers light caused this

[modern lodge]

And the whirlwind was what a 500+ years ago

[trim grotto]

Indefinite. As in, we don't know. However, we know of pre-Whirlwind Eliksni such as Eramis and Variks, and that happened before the Golden Age of Humanity even began.

[sick yew]

More than 800 I think but yes

[trim grotto]

Well over that
500+ is more of an estimate for the Collapse, 500-2000

Golden Age itself was centuries

[sick yew]

I always thought collapse to red war was 800 cause of that one line from Failsafe

But guess we dont really know besides "a shit long time"

[modern lodge]

The dark age duration is sorta unknown right?

[sick yew]

Only really estimations exist yeah

[trim grotto]

500, but she has never been a reliable source: Nessus has been pulled in and out of standard time by the Vex

[sick yew]

Plus I dont think the Dark Age has a direct clear cut end it was more of a transition into the city age

[sick yew]

Dont diss my girl Failsafe like that
(But good to know)

[modern lodge]

In so excited TFS

I hope the lore is a Michelin star meal

[ruby pivot]

@high sparrow Zavala's long story short: A soldier who fought for a long time found love and adopted a child. However, tragedy struck when his son died during a Fallen raid. He blamed himself for his son's death, even though his wife knew it wasn't his fault. Out of grief, he sought his Ghost to revive Hakim, but it didn't work that way. Overwhelmed with sorrow, he considered ending it all by shooting his Ghost. Eventually, he and his wife went separate ways. His wife found another love, but she later died being a mortal and all that. Zavala asked her for forgiveness on her grave and continued to seek forgiveness throughout generations. Can someone confirm if I got it all right, by the way?

someone confirm if i got it all btw

[trim grotto]

please, with respect, add some more grammar and paragraph breaks
i know this story and it's still hard to read

[ruby pivot]

yup yup kinda rushed since i am outside

[next bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/roasted-oh-shookt-gif-8269968

[trim grotto]

but that's about right factually, yeah

[ruby pivot]

ill fix it once i am home

there is an extension about the backstory to further the thought of the community why zavala dies in TFS (witch queen)

@high sparrow

[next bobcat]

Hold up

Do I smell a leak or am I mishearing you

[trim grotto]

just talking about the trailer
i, for one, thoroughly doubt it

[ruby pivot]

its what people think because of the trailer

[next bobcat]

Ah

[ruby pivot]

i for one think zavala will die as well, some thinks he will betray us tho

[next bobcat]

Yah since they got a new VA and all

[trim grotto]

i think neither

[ruby pivot]

i dont see zavala betraying us but him losing all his motivation and morale to fight is there tho

[next bobcat]

He’s always been resistant to using the darkness, maybe this is kind of opening his eyes to the darkness so he can break out of the witness’s control

[sick yew]

Everyone dies

I win

The end

Drifter steps up and creates a new universe purely consisting of Gambit

[ruby pivot]

i hope zavala finally gets a good rest, i dont meant death ya know just a good thing/ending for the commander

[sick yew]

So he can do what
Go back to standing on the tower looking at the city all day long? Bro is basically retired and has been for years

[ruby pivot]

hmmm i dont know much about the military but since he seems still on active duty since he is a vanguard, i assume he hasn't yet

[sick yew]

Yeah im mostly joking
hes still a commander lol

But like most of the vanguard he doesnt do much himself or at all

he just stands there overlooking the city and giving you the occasionally decent rolled gun

[viral cedar]

Is destiny ending after the final shape or will there still be story expansions ?

[sick yew]

We still got 3 Episodes confirmed

And maybe stuff afterwards we dont know but its likely imo

Theyre merely ending the light and dark saga but never said anything about a new well saga

[viral cedar]

Ok thx

[ruby pivot]

oh lel i see, ye gameplay wise but id understand if he he has stacks of paperwork or alot of files to go through, like what i saw on youtube of him announcing fireteam names(ridiculous sounding names included)

[sick yew]

The last time he was properly active in the field was season of the haunted

[chrome fog]

Funny you mention an archive as how the inner workings of the Traveler work
From the Season of the Deep vendor, this ship led some of us to believe that yes, the Pale Heart operates similar to the Akashic Records referenced in the ship name, in that it is a record of every and all things, though that leaves the question of why we only see Cayde so far. Other stuff like how his mouth light is blue instead of yellow - insinuating he’s a Memory (cleansed Nightmare from Season of the Haunted) with a remade physical form - and the Pale Heart being pure Light and Darkness is also how we figured he came back, but there’s also the ship Mael shared to potentially explain why specifically only Cayde has been seen
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/akashic-revelation

[chrome fog]

We do have Dova’s summary of the larger beats of Destiny’s narrative in the pins if you want

[ruby pivot]

imagine the traveler recording your very not sfw clan/fireteam/character name plastered on a wall just to shame you

[chrome fog]

She'd be understanding but disappoint in you/get a good chuckle

[hollow crag]

dumb question: couldn’t we have wished for more wishes

[chrome fog]

Ahamkara don't grant your wish outright, not without either a heavy bargaining chip like Riven's surviving eggs or some way to communicate your wish with no grounds for misinterpretation. Even then, it is up to the often fickle ahamkara to decide if and how they want to grant your wish.

And often it ends up with you getting fucked over

There are also wishes that are beyond the power of an Ahamkara and would require they have more desire from the wisher to grant

[chrome fog]

If an Ahamkara were to grant this wish, they might make it so you are never at all satisfied with anything and always wishing for better. You may never know contentment ever again.

[safe galleon]

how many guardians are there generally at any given time in-lore? hundreds? thousands?

[empty fern]

Here’s a Reddit link https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/s/4ELojVwjKx

[gaunt carbon]

if our guardian is known to gods like savathun who has canonically cowered at the mention of our name howcome other lesser entities think it to be a good idea to challenge us, perhaps out of sheer ignorance?

[jagged badge]

A stray shot from a Dreg can easily end a Guardian’s life

Exaggerating somewhat ofc but I hope you get my point

[chrome fog]

We jus good. Not like godly good, but consistently and persistently good

[woeful stream]

Like 2 vandal shots in game

[woeful stream]

Are all glaives in game tied to Rhulk? Cuz i know enigma, nezeracs whisper, winterbite, and lubraes ruin are but what about the other ones like greasy luck, vexcaliber, or judgement of kelgaroth?

[river turret]

In the lore are all subclasses tied to their specific class or can a hunter learn how to use nova bomb? I don’t remember

[woeful stream]

Yes though there are examples of different classes learning from other classes like arc hunters learning blink from void warlocks

And arc hunters learning invisibility from void

[analog torrent]

And Felwinter sorta learning shoulder charge from Jolder

The classes/abilities aren't set in stone

like Shaw Haw doing a well-esque thing with his goldie that gave goldie to a bunch of redjacks

and Drifter being non trinary

[woeful stream]

Ye it's just what your ghost kinda picks for you

[analog torrent]

not really
The Guardian figures it out for themself

like in the Dark Age classes weren't a thing but there were people that could be described as Titans or Hunters in the modern day

[mystic prawn]

Also the fact that we're getting a Golden Gun Sniper

[woeful stream]

I thought the ghost does cuz when you start a new character he tells you "you're strong like a wall, your a titan!" Or something like that as an example

[analog torrent]

Hunter before hunters were a thing

Titan before titans were a thing

Felwinter and Timur were obviously Warlocks, they spent so much of the Dark Age obsessively going after Golden Age tech

[analog torrent]

Don't remember the new light quest but we're deep into the City Age when every Ghost knows about the classes and can look for signs in their new Risen

Ex: Drifter, Felwinter, Orin being rezzed: no class, Dark Age
Andal Brask being rezzed: Micah immediately clocks him as a Hunter, City Age

[woeful stream]

Oh ya you right ty

[woeful stream]

Can someone tell about this plz? I'm really curious

[analog torrent]

Vexcalibur is associated with Asher Mir
not sure bout the others

[heavy vortex]

As we are nearing the launch of Final Shape, I’d like to remind you all that any newly revealed (lore) content will have to be discussed in #1247252842465460225 until <t:1718125200:f>.

Failure to follow this rule will be met with mutes, sharing leaks will result in removal from the server. Enjoy the expansion.

[chrome fog]

Not necessarily, just coincidence

[chrome fog]

Seething and foaming at the mouth

[empty fern]

Kelgorath

[chrome fog]

I'm awaaaay

From concolse and can't buy cause broke as shit

[gentle geyser]

On his way to becoming the new Taniks

[naive raptor]

Is Cayde really alive or is he (like) a figment of the traveler’s imagination? A ghost (no not that one)?

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

Kind of the last one, kind of the middle one, but also sorta kinda yes the first one

[naive raptor]

So Cayde is not really living?

[sacred cedar]

Why is the witness called that? Is there something specific that it witnessed?

[chrome fog]

Who's to say? He's there, he remembers his time prior, there's not much to suggest he's not alive in any way that matters

[jagged badge]

https://youtu.be/Z0CKckjryVI?si=AjCOhqmzqnmOov6o

[chrome fog]

The "truth" of existence, which is just the precursor civilization they were made from coming to the nihilism conclusion of there being no inherent meaning to existence

[empty fern]

Dead orbit was the witness all along

[chrome fog]

People read the first conclusion of nihilism and ignore the second part - make your own meaning for existence

[sacred cedar]

I missed that line ty, kinda silly tho

[chrome fog]

Is somewhat the point, there have been equally horrible irl stuff that has resulted from similar thought

Doomers nonewithstanding, the mid-20th-century was faced with one of the worst students of nihilism declaring a big war on the globe

[eager trout]

At what age are Eliksni considered equivalent to an 18 year old human?

[empty fern]

Don’t know

[hasty geode]

So I gotta question

[empty fern]

Nuh uh

[hasty geode]

Dont know we already know how this will end?

[empty fern]

Nope, remember how we lost in lf? It could go either way

[hasty geode]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckLYf8SHa38&ab_channel=Monsta

[exotic cloak]

We are pretty much winning, the thing is how

[empty fern]

No, we are well past this point

[hasty geode]

Oh

[empty fern]

Didn’t someone ask a similar thing a while ago?

[hasty geode]

I thought that was our destiny

[empty fern]

Nope

[eager trout]

It's our destiny too

[tender token]

Does anyone have any good information why we lightbeares now use the darkness?

Or it doesn't make sense just play the game on this one? lol

[empty fern]

Can’t remember, something in beyond light

[spiral hawk]

Got it from the pyramids

Stasis at least

[blazing wasp]

Strand was from the veil

[spiral hawk]

Yeah

[tender token]

So are they trying to spin the whole Darkness isn't bad thing im guessing right?

[spiral hawk]

It isn’t. Light and dark are two sides of the same coin. They are not inherently good or bad

[tender token]

As in they do not stand for anything morally then.

[blazing wasp]

Can't spin something that never was the case

[spiral hawk]

Nope

[blazing wasp]

Ingame characters viewed this way, but the game didnt

[empty fern]

It’s like the gun converstaion

[lime tiger]

is there a known reason as to why we spared mithrax on titan?
and would it be safe to consider him the "kell of kells"?

[spiral hawk]

Darkness is thought and consciousness. Light is matter and the physical

[blazing wasp]

We chose between killing hive or fallen, the choice was easy

[spiral hawk]

He never shot us on sight. At every opportunity he just trapped us and left us be

[empty fern]

Not really, but it’s probably one of the earliest versions of a canon choice in d2

[tender token]

I remember they story about them playing in the Garden, the game. (I haven't played in a while, but now seems like a good time to come back and loved the Lore.)

[blazing wasp]

"Kell of kells" no, he has not united all fallen nor has he been blessed by the traveler

[spiral hawk]

Unveiling

[blazing wasp]

The two criteria of Kelly of kells

[spiral hawk]

The creation myth by the witness

[blazing wasp]

Unveiling is canonically up for debate on it being true or not

[spiral hawk]

Think of it as the Bible or any religious text

[lime tiger]

ok thx.
tho id sure reckon hed be closest to it, maybe well see somethin happen in the future idk

[blazing wasp]

Not "deconfirmed" nor "confirmed"

But canonically questioned by ingame characters, providing support for both options

[empty fern]

Skolas and house mentioned

[tender token]

OK, I think I got a grasp on how the lore is for Light and Dark. Just I guess calling it Dark just puts a connotation on it for me.

[spiral hawk]

Without light there can be no shadows and without shadows there can be no light

[hexed garnet]

but why is the witness called the witness

[empty fern]

Who tf

[spiral hawk]

They witnessed the cruelty of the universe

[hexed garnet]

fair

[blazing wasp]

Unknown actually, just presumed

[spiral hawk]

Eh I like my idea better than ‘they just are’

[empty fern]

Didn’t we get ink scene?

[spiral hawk]

Actually yeah

[empty fern]

.

[blazing wasp]

Which is ironic because the witness is more or less a misinterpretation of the precursors view of the final shape when the witness is literally just the spawn of the precursors

[spiral hawk]

Season of the deep cutscene

[blazing wasp]

Oh yeah

[tender token]

Yea, I think they are called Light and Dark but perhaps they could have just had two names that didn't incline you in a direction of a certain morality. Like Power and Might would have worked better, but I get that they are good names Light and Dark since they both need to exist perhaps.

[spiral hawk]

Well it is all the precursors combined

[blazing wasp]

It's the precursors but also not entirely them in mind

It's not the precursors as a hive mind

[spiral hawk]

It’s their drive, their consensus

[blazing wasp]

Yea

[spiral hawk]

Their will made manifest

[blazing wasp]

Which is really funny given the differences between them

[spiral hawk]

Peak darkness energy

[blazing wasp]

"Hell is paved with good intentions" kinda lads vs "the greatest pissbaby loser nihilistic pessimist since the actual dawn of the fucking universe"

[ember storm]

they also killed the ones who didn’t want to be part of it

[spiral hawk]

‘It is what it is’ vs ‘The indomitable human spirit’

[hexed garnet]

i guess the name "dude who saw" isnt as cool as the witness

[spiral hawk]

Name for the next big bad ‘The defendant’

[ember storm]

it’ll witness these hands if it keeps up

[spiral hawk]

‘The prosecution’

And ‘The Jury’

[empty fern]

The End

[blazing wasp]

The devils advocate, who was just eramis' old lawyer

[spiral hawk]

They are as cool as ice

[hasty geode]

I hear this alot but is it true that Caydes death was the most important event in Destiny since everything changed after it?

[empty fern]

Harambe

[spiral hawk]

Basically. After that we got the moth queen plot thread and her various machinations from then on

[ember storm]

it was used by bungie to usher in a more serious tone for the overarching story, but no not really

nothing major that’s happened since would really be different if Cayde were still alive

[chrome fog]

Someone put it correctly in that the Witness is like the Anti-Spiral of Gurren Lagann

[burnt edge]

Is it true ahamkaras can break the 4tg wall

& have they before

[ember storm]

debatable but it also doesn’t matter

there’s one lore tab of an ahamkara speaking to the reader of the lore tab but nothing has come of it or been seen since

[burnt edge]

I swear I remember watching a video where like they knew they were in a game or something

was freaky

[ember storm]

that would be the lore tab I’m referring to

again, it doesn’t really matter, it was before forsaken and anything else established about them beyond “they’re magic dragons”

[burnt edge]

Interesting

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/ttgl-tengen-toppa-gurren-lagann-gif-21997574

Finally someone has that reference anime

[chrome fog]

As a kid raised on robots Gurren Lagann was a shining light in my teens when I started watching anime

Greatest successor to the super robos of decades past

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/tengen-toppa-gurren-lagann-gif-20034831

Emphasis on the shining light

[chrome fog]

SPIRIT SO INDOMITABLE IT THREATENS EXISTENCE

Been rewatching the series and falling in love with it all over again

Planning to finish them and then the summary movies to see what little things they changed

[worthy quarry]

im new to destiny lore, what happened to rhulk?

[chrome fog]

We killed him

[worthy quarry]

did we also kill calus?

[chrome fog]

Yes

This might be helpful

#📚lore-discussion message

Pretty sure Dova covered most if not all the dungeons and raids along with the greater expansion and seasonal stories

[empty fern]

A long read
Then there’s byf video

[chrome fog]

As an alternative

10 hours, comparable to the Bionicle lore video

Fitting since both lasted a decade

[worthy quarry]

i plan on watching the 10 hour one last..

[chrome fog]

It’s not a total requirement, you can get by pretty well with Dova’s summary

He’s still missing the Taken King part of D1 tho

[worthy quarry]

is savathun dead?

and i mean playing it as a podcast wouldnt be bad

[vagrant bridge]

Nope

[empty fern]

Yep

[teal ginkgo]

men

[chrome fog]

Ok?

[empty fern]

Yep

[dim minnow]

Wait I forgot Taken King?

[chrome fog]

You got Dark Below, House of Wolves, and Rise of Iron but no Taken King

[dim minnow]

NO ONE TOLD ME I FORGOT THEM ARE YOU SHITTING ME

[chrome fog]

I said it! I said it at the time when I got to read it!

[woeful stream]

While we were fighting aksis prime during the raid he was the strongest eliksni to ever exist for that moment ever right?

[chrome fog]

Just the first Eliksni-Exo

Doesn’t necessarily define him as most powerful Eliksni, heck we fight Taniks as the actual final boss of the raid

[woeful stream]

Yah lol

[ember storm]

you’re thinking of Atraks

Aksis is arguably the strongest Eliksni of all time, yes, he even claimed himself as their new god

[woeful stream]

Aksis was definitely the biggest though

[ember storm]

he was essentially a sentient tank empowered with SIVA

big boy

[eager trout]

How old is Eido?

[ember storm]

particularly young

like probably under 50 at least

[eager trout]

I mean chronologicaly

[chrome fog]

At least some time after the Reef Wars

[dim minnow]

She was a hatchling during the Reef Wars

[eager trout]

Which was...?

[ember storm]

before D1

[woeful stream]

Now that I think about it taniks fight was a big 99cent dollar tree aksis fight

[dim minnow]

Post-Twilight Gap

[ember storm]

they should’ve done a reverse and had his legs piloted by a Servitor

[eager trout]

I mean how long ago
In numbers

[ember storm]

asking for numbers is never conclusive in destiny

[woeful stream]

That would of been hella goofy though, just a servitor with legs

[ember storm]

they just don’t exist

[woeful stream]

The only "time" we know is that from the start of d1 to tfs is a span of 10 years

[ember storm]

with a few months time skip, give or take

[chrome fog]

Let’s have some fun

[woeful stream]

From rise of Iron to red war?

[chrome fog]

@left gyro

[ember storm]

red war had a time skip

[fast tapir]

how long was it

[left gyro]

yes thx haha

[eager trout]

How old is Mithrax?

[ember storm]

“a few months, give or take”

[left gyro]

the slow mode gonna put me crazy., nvm

[fast tapir]

fuck even the lore channel is on cooldown we cant escape

[woeful stream]

Old, like a couple thousand years at least

[ember storm]

“Young” by Eliksni standards but that’s only because they’re extremely long lived; he was one of the first generations born in the solar system

[woeful stream]

Mithrax was born on riis

[ember storm]

he was an infant by the time they reached so that’s good enough for me

[chrome fog]

Anyways Exos aren’t Vex, their consciousness is housed in purified radiolaria, alkahest, but like that’s it, they’re still that individual

[left gyro]

• Cayde-6
• Lady Efrideet, (probably dead)
• Katabasis
• Tevis Larsen
• Tallulah Fairwind
• Andal Brask
• Agadir
• Dax Etono
• Deidris
• Gemma Nixx
• Gheleon
• Haakon
• Jaren Ward
• Kauro shifriver
• Nian Ruo
• Pahanin
• Perun
• Sai mota
• Vyhar
  and Weyloran his your Hunter who has dead.

[chrome fog]

Who’s Weyloran?

[ember storm]

what is this about exactly

also why would efrideet be “probably dead”

[woeful stream]

mithrax was pirate during the exodus

[left gyro]

Weyloran was a destiny 1 Iron Lord we know him when we go at the top of the iron temple mountain and when we ask more information of his statue.

[woeful stream]

He's around the same age as eramis

[ember storm]

the Plunder cutscene shows him as an infant when they first arrive in sol

he’s a pirate in the dark age

[woeful stream]

I think you're thinking of eido

[ember storm]

no, Eido was born in the reef wars

[woeful stream]

Oh ok

Ty

[left gyro]

Iron Lord Hunter :
Efrideet - Gheleon - Perun - Weyloran - Haakon - Deidris

[analog torrent]

Shin Malphur not being on the hunter list is crazy

And Shiro-4 and Micah-10
oh wait is that dead hunters

[ember storm]

efrideet has no reason to be dead

[chrome fog]

It’s a list of dead famous Guardians

[left gyro]

Shiro is a vanguard scout but not an Iron Lord 🤔 maybe a Iron wolves

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/a-history-of-starlight

can someone please explain what this conversation is about

[left gyro]

I think i'm not sure but i THINK we have see 1 times Efrideet at destiny 2.

[ember storm]

she hasn’t appeared personally but she is still alive as far as we know

[left gyro]

Ok so is at destiny 1. too long i have lost some of memories

[eager trout]

How quickly do Eliksni even reach adulthood? If Eido was a baby during the Reef wars, which happened relatively recently, then she should be like a toddler if Eliksni aging was consistent, but she's an adult.

[chrome fog]

She came back for Red War, then returned to her pacifist colony, where she has been mentioned to be at maybe twice

[eager trout]

That doesn't tell me anything

[chrome fog]

Not part of your thing

[ember storm]

the thing you’re assuming is that long lifespan = long development period, which it doesn’t

[eager trout]

I wonder. Is Eliksni aging tied to Ether?

[ember storm]

tortoises fully mature in just 20 years

no, but it’s vital to their development process

don’t think of ether as some magic substance, it’s just an additional chemical their species relies on to survive on top of normal food and water

[eager trout]

I mean like, does the amount of Ether they...absorb(?) affect how quickly they grow

[ember storm]

their unique reaction to it is mostly just because they’re still, yknow, sci fi aliens

[ember storm]

it takes time, days or weeks

it’s not immediate by any means

Achilles, one of the Eliksni who personally razed London, had a sizable amount of ether during his developmental period, but had a lot less access to it as he aged

he was still physically large, but also frail and skinny

basically faust guilty gear

[eager trout]

How old is 540 for an Eliksni?

[chrome fog]

Who knows

[analog torrent]

Last call predictions for who we're gonna see in tfs?
in order of likeliness: Safiyah, Hasim, Shiro-4, Micah-10, Jolder, Radegast, Felwinter

[woeful stream]

Physically yes, skolas grew huge cuz he would hog all the ether back in the exodus period and he absorbed it

[eager trout]

Traveler human form or Winnower

I need House of Wolves lore

[frigid lintel]

how important were the light fall seasons story wise
I never got around to doing them

[dim minnow]

They advanced the plot of us trying ti follow the Witness through the portal

[analog torrent]

Look at the witness’s head
not a spoiler idk why the image did that

[frigid lintel]

guess I'll watch a recap

[dim minnow]

Also gave us the Witness' origins though you can watch that one on the ingame timeline

[dim minnow]

So brave

[frigid lintel]

I keep hearing that one of the lore yter just put out a giant lore recap video

[viral cedar]

What are ghost made of and why can they talk?

[empty fern]

Light and some glass and plastic, they talk because traveler wanted them to

[broken relic]

Haven't been around since witch queen anything important happen

[analog torrent]

rasputin is dead
osiris woke up
eliksni and cabal are our frens now
uldren sov was rezzed, now goes by the name Crow, and is the most likely candidate for the next Hunter Vanguard
the witness entered the traveler and is about to enact the final shape
sloane is alive
Riven secretly had a clutch of Ahamkara eggs, which we rescued

[broken relic]

2-4 I knew but cool

How did Rasputin die

[chrome fog]

Sacrificed himself to prevent the Warsats from being used

[broken relic]

I remember there was something about bringing felwinter back did that happen

[ember storm]

we learned that Clovis had been planning to use Rasputin as his personal weapon all along, and that the protocols for activating all warsats to be used on the traveler could be captured and used by our enemies

[ember storm]

That was never on the table

[broken relic]

Must have been my imagination

[ember storm]

Rasputin himself is what we were working to rebuild for over three years

[analog torrent]

man I wish 😭
still hoping that he shows up in tfs via the Witness tempting Saladin but I don't think Saladin's going in there

[chrome fog]

Since Felwinter was technically originally one of Rasputin’s subminds, we needed whatever little data of him remained, which involved us scanning the remains of Felspring, his Ghost

[proper smelt]

Also Eramis was hacking the Warsats to blow up the Traveller.

[chrome fog]

Which might’ve not been successful in the first place, maybe it would have, but aiming at the Traveler would have also caused massive collateral on the Last City.

We also couldn’t really use the Warsat system to eliminate Xivu’s forces because, in utilizing them to destroy any of her forces, she receives tithe from the perpetuation of War, her aspect. And so, whilst we waffled on whether or not we should keep the Warsats operative, Eramis went to hijack the Warsat system and then locked out us out of the control room. The only way we could keep her from firing the Warsats was for Rasputin to upload himself to the system and initiate self-destruct, which ended with his death.

[zinc knoll]

Whats special about the guardian?

[chrome fog]

Nothing much, just consistently good

[ember storm]

Gordon Freeman pilled

[muted dagger]

I wass lokin at somone stream and i tough we going suicide sqad route by each season killing one of alternative versions of green man

[eager trout]

The real reason the servers are down is because the Witness won and achieved the final shape and destroyed the universe

[chrome fog]

What green man

[muted dagger]

brainiac

[empty fern]

(Ooooo when that spoiler rule is gone, that new lore book ingame is gonna be juicy)

[chrome fog]

11th

[empty fern]

Too long

[fast tapir]

11th?

god damn

slowmode on lore chat and none on media is crazy

[chrome fog]

Oof don’t let general know

They’ll find somewhere they can complain all the more often and frequently

[fast tapir]

oh god

[trim grotto]

Fun fact*
Worm Gods actuay have billions of microscopic little feet that skitter their bodies along the ground

*may or may not actually be a fact

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/ilulu-kobayashi-dragon-maid-tiny-hands-gif-22912649

[chrome fog]

God that's freaky

[empty fern]

Animated moment

[shadow crypt]

We can’t talk about tfs stuff here until the 11th right?

[unreal tulip]

I stopped playing right around when the wish keeper catalyst mission thing dropped. Is there some stuff I should know as someone who's mildy into the story

[gentle geyser]

https://youtu.be/zzBmOeYmN_M?si=-Bzs10QMYqbC4dU1

Just watch this really short video on the lore

Jokes aside all you need to know is we send crow into the traveler

If youve been keeping up on lore before you hopped off that is

[versed sierra]

possible spoilers for TFS? -> ||what are witness dissenters?||

[chrome fog]

Well we know from the Collector’s Edition lorebook, Entelechy, that the Precursor civilization that gave rise to the Witness being were not unanimous in wanting to go through with the ritual to create the Witness, but a smaller group of influential Precursors made the decision for everyone else

If FS has any other info about them, I would suggest going to #1247252842465460225

[chrome fog]

For easier reference for the lore, we do have a summary of most if not all the content for each release in the pins, all typed up by the wonderful Dovadah
#📚lore-discussion message

[compact sky]

in Indian philosophy, Ahamkara refers to 'I-making' or the ego of ones own self and their mistaken assumption of who they are. How does that relate to the Ahamkara in the actual game

I kinda see the relation but I also don't

[ember storm]

well they can shapeshift and also force reality to bend to their whims, so

kinda

[compact sky]

I have a better question, I was looking through my ships and found a name I've never heard of before

Who is bayle? The only thing I could find in the ishtar collective was that he was part of Holborn's Host, a small force in Mars

and that they were participating in the d1 strike Dust Palace

[neon raft]

Hey, so there are different Exo face options in-game (probably more in canon, but it'd be unrealistic to expect millions of individual customisations in-game).

And among those is an exo face which either has no eyes or has its eyes permanently covered.
How does that work in terms of "Exo mind crisis/rejection"?
Won't the consciousness of the Exo freak out from having no eyes or being able to do nothing about not being able to see even though they could pre-Exo state?

[vale cradle]

I need to watch the whole light and dark saga someday, but what's the status of Savathun and Xivu Arath right now?
I didn't play Season of the Witch at all.

[fast tapir]

Savathun is alive but we have her ghost in custody just incase she wants to pull some stuff

and Xivu Arath was cut off from her throneworld by Eris Morn

so she is very vulnerable

[empty fern]

Hopefully see her in heresy

[shrewd nova]

are we allowed to talk about TFS here?

[empty fern]

Not yet sadly,

But damn is the new in game lore book juicy

[candid inlet]

xovenetia (ID 516552086205235230)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
As we are nearing the launch of Final Shape, I’d like to remind you all that any newly revealed (lore) content will have to be discussed in #1247252842465460225 until <t:1718125200:f>.

Failure to follow this rule will be met with mutes, sharing leaks will result in removal from the server. Enjoy the expansion.

Command triggered by xovenetia. Message link from · Jun 4, 2024, 2:56 PM

[cobalt mica]

are brigs piloted by captains???

or are they automated

[chrome fog]

Automated

[dim minnow]

Except for the Zero Hour one apparently

But that one is in a simulation

[cunning stirrup]

do the fallen call the traveler The Great Machine?

[trim grotto]

Yes

[cunning stirrup]

do we know why or are they just silly

[trim grotto]

It isn't exactly made of meat

God imagine if it was though

Eugh

Meat Orb

[dull raft]

that's just a meatier Round Meal

[devout vine]

Serves 3 men

How to do it!

[molten briar]

So

Was the drifter pointless?

Was his escape plan simply hide in a different realm?

[trim grotto]

We never discovered his escape plan, but in the end, he chose to stick around. Certainly wasn't pointless, though. Drifter prepared us for wielding Darkness safely before Beyond Light ever came along. Heck, before Shadowkeep.

[dim minnow]

and it was all part of SHin's plan

[vital lodge]

can an ahamkara not just have the witness wished away

[dim minnow]

not worth the risk

[vital lodge]

risk?

[dim minnow]

Ahamkara will twist your wish against you

[vital lodge]

why wasnt crows wish twisted

[dim minnow]

Taranis was literally the ONLY one who would have given our wish without screwing us over, and:

1. He is gone
2. That's assuming an Ahamkara wish is strong enough to get rid of the WItness

[dim minnow]

which one?

[vital lodge]

to enter the traveelr

sorry im mid combat

[compact sky]

do guardians that arent the main character also buy from xur

[vital lodge]

were all the main character

[dim minnow]

ok, so in the Dreaming City, Mara Sov had a device callded the Wall of Wishes

[vital lodge]

uhuh

[compact sky]

yeah but guardians that are not the main character aka Young Wolf, like just your average lightbearer guardian

[dim minnow]

the wall essentially allowed Mara to ask for wishes in the form of symbols she inputs into it

[vital lodge]

arent all guardians other than NPC ones players?

[vital lodge]

yes I know

were those wishes not twisted?

[dim minnow]

the wall makes it difficult for Riven to twist them

[vital lodge]

then why not witness murder with the wall

[compact sky]

I mean there are other guardians that aren't npcs like lorebook characters

[dim minnow]

that requires us to come up with a pattern sequence for it

which we did not have the knowledge nor time to come up with

plus, again, there is no guarantee that Ahamkara can actually affect the Witness

[vital lodge]

wouldnt mara know

[dim minnow]

probably not

[vital lodge]

they were able to affect the traveler, shouldnt they also affect the witness

[compact sky]

because I doubt some guardians would be able to learn strand or learn stasis

[vital lodge]

who was the guardian in the space suit at the start of final shape

[dim minnow]

the wish didn;t affect the Traveler technically

[compact sky]

iirc Shin Malphur created a fake Dredgen Yor cult so he could cull guardians who fell to darkness

[vital lodge]

isnt creating cayde affecting it

[dim minnow]

no?

[vital lodge]

the wish went inside the traveler

[dim minnow]

the wish was to get INSIDE of it

[vital lodge]

but it also made a living person in there

[dim minnow]

that doesn't mean the wish directly affected the Traveler

[dim minnow]

separate wish too btw

[vital lodge]

arent Ahamkara, the original hive gods, traveler, darkness, and the witness the big dudes of the destiny universe?

and the 9 maybe idk what theyre about

[dim minnow]

Hive gods are below everyone else there except maybe Ahamkara

[vital lodge]

the original ones?

before oryx and all them

[dim minnow]

the IX are powerful and nigh omnipotent, but they are bound to Sol and the life in it

[vital lodge]

so theyre basically The Watcher

[dim minnow]

there weren't any before them

if you are referring to the Worm Gods, also below the Traveler and Witness

[vital lodge]

the worms didnt have gods before tricking savathun and the others?

[dim minnow]

Worm Gods =/= Hive Gods

pretty sure Hive Gods are above Worm Gods too

[vital lodge]

when you have 3 reality bending things in a universe it gets confusing

[dim minnow]

and once again, Ahamkara do have limits

[vital lodge]

like how they cant wish for themselves

[dim minnow]

especially Riven, who only had enough power left to grant one final wish

[vital lodge]

btw I didnt see the end, where is riven now?

just dead?

[dim minnow]

her spirit faded away for good

[vital lodge]

dang we didnt even turn her into a gun

[dim minnow]

the last of her power was spent granting the Last Wish

[vital lodge]

dang

and what of her eggs

we crushed them right?

[dim minnow]

no

[vital lodge]

why.

[dim minnow]

Mara is keeping them safe

[vital lodge]

of course she is....

like that didnt go bad last time

[dim minnow]

we are kind of obligated to for Riven

[vital lodge]

obligate my butt. each of those kids could kill us all

[dim minnow]

besides, there is a good chance they turn out like their father, Taranis

[vital lodge]

hmm....

ok but one wrong move and im having new dragon leather boots

[dim minnow]

sadly, it seems Saladin and the Cabal might want to kill off Riven's clutch anyway

because Saladin believes that no one can be trusted with an Ahamkara's power

[trim grotto]

To be fair, it didn't, until Oryx killed Mara and invaded the Dreaming City and Took Riven.

[vital lodge]

oh that too

is Mara just immortal or

[trim grotto]

Awoken (outside of the Distributary) are incredibly long lived, but not immortal.

[vital lodge]

didnt she get killed

[trim grotto]

Yes, at least twice.

[vital lodge]

so how is she alive

[dim minnow]

Throne World son

[trim grotto]

The Shattered Throne is literally a Throne World. Eleusinia.

She crafted it with aid from Riven.

[vital lodge]

I thought that was hive exclusive

oh riven

cheater

[dim minnow]

they never really were, it's just that the Hive were the most notable ones to access the Ascendant Plane

[vital lodge]

alos

also*

[orchid flame]

Who is micah-10

[vital lodge]

are vex just milk controller robots

controlled*

[dim minnow]

one of the Six Coyotes, a famous group of hunters who first scouted the Cosmodrome

also a protector of Ghosts

[dim minnow]

the Vex are reductive patterns housed inside of the Radiolaria that you see in Vex units

idk, I haven't played that far yet

[vital lodge]

but theres different vex? or are they all 1

[dim minnow]

Micah-10 is female btw

[orchid flame]

That's something I didn't expect considering the name

[vital lodge]

strange name for a woman

[dim minnow]

Vex give the illusion of a Hive mind, but in reality each individual Vex is just on the same page with the other to a massive extent

[orchid flame]

No shade, just didn't think so

[dim minnow]

depends how you pronoucne it

[vital lodge]

yet theres no chance of a friendly vex?

[dim minnow]

mai-cuh = make
mee-cuh = female

[orchid flame]

ah mee cuh

[vital lodge]

miicuh

[orchid flame]

forget about it cuh 🔥

[vital lodge]

ive never heard anyone say Micah as Meecuh

[orchid flame]

I'll spoiler it, I think I screenshotted the graphic

[dim minnow]

||Mara pronoucned it "mai-cuh"||

we should probably stop going into spoiler territory though

[orchid flame]

||Oh damn so the pronunciation is micah then, odd but doesn't change anything, pretty cool||

[dim minnow]

like, delete the messages here

[orchid flame]

Yeah, it's why I'm spoiling everything

For sure

[vital lodge]

is lore not a spoiler zone?

[dim minnow]

it not

[gentle geyser]

Nah

[dim minnow]

we can only talk about TFS spoilers in spoiler chat

[vital lodge]

how do you discuss story without discussing story

[dim minnow]

until the 11th

[orchid flame]

A week yeah

[dim minnow]

discuss it in spoiler chat

or wait until the 11th to discuss it here

[orchid flame]

So, on the topic then - it shouldn't be a spoiler, who are the other 5 coyotes?

[dim minnow]

Conar
Himura Shinobu
Lee-4
Nadiya
Therin Vai

[orchid flame]

now to google and get artwork of them all

[dim minnow]

Nadiya is the only one with an official design

[orchid flame]

Ah

[dim minnow]

(other than... well)

yeah, but again, spoiling

[orchid flame]

why would their name be a spoiler

[chrome fog]

Their appearance isn’t

[orchid flame]

Ah.

right time to do more deleting

[dim minnow]

as for nadiya, she appeared in the comics

[orchid flame]

have any of them experienced their last death?

use || if that would be considered spoiler territory again

[dim minnow]

not as far as we know

[orchid flame]

even if there's no mention in tfs

[orchid flame]

that's cool because i like a character then i google them then they're dead

another thing i never clocked was some of the name drops from shadowkeep, who were the other 5 who got killed by crota?

[dim minnow]

Eris' fireteam (I don't think any of them were directly killed by Crota)

[orchid flame]

Yeah it was her team, but were any of them properly known?

and how did they die, the darkness or like thrall

[dim minnow]

her team consisted of:
Eris herself
Vell Tarlowe - Swarmed by Thrall and finished off by Alak-Hul

Sai Mota - wormrot caused by Omnigul prevented ressurection

Omar Agah - Light torn out by the Heart of Crota (Wizard who was one of his disciples). However, the wizard messed up and took his entire consciousness out with it. He turned into a bug as a result which now powers the Xenophage.

Toland the Shattered - Confronted a Deathsinger, had his entire body destroyed while his consciousness was retained. He's still alive like Omar, but takes the form of a flickering light.

Eriana-3 - Deathsong I believe

[orchid flame]

Damn I see why Eris is why she is now

i never knew toland was from her team, and omar is the xenophage?

or like, as you said - powers it??

[vital lodge]

is there a lore reason why ghosts get names but ours dont? or is that just a gameplay thing

[dim minnow]

not all Ghosts are given names

Tyra Karn's ghost is still named Ghost

it's just that we haven't given our's a name

[steel sleet]

Is the campaign working yet ?

[trim grotto]

It was last night.

[empty fern]

Hmmm

||Targe||

[weak sentinel]

Why didn’t the witness just pull up on us mid mission and malevolent shrine our ass?

[empty fern]

It tells you in the campaign, (little later in it tho)

[trim grotto]

I don't know what that is, but consider what it has done to us so far. Everything it does is trying to prove a point. To not just stop, but corrupt, everything the Traveler has done. To be cruel.

[stark fjord]

Here’s a stupid and baseless theory: what if the traveller is a giant ghost and the pyramids are its shell

[empty fern]

Meh

[trim grotto]

The Precursors (Witness's civilisation) created the Pyramids according to the Ahsa cutscene

[stark fjord]

Hence it being stupid and baseless

[vital lodge]

update: Mara pronounces is Mycuh not mecuh

[trim grotto]

I imagine so, yes.

It's spelled with an I after all

[eager trout]

The Witness is not scary, just creepy and uncanny

[eager trout]

The Witness trying to save us from the suffering it caused us:

[trim grotto]

Yeah haha

[worn kernel]

tempts me with all the riches and glory I want after the trauma we went through “B*** you clearly don’t know what I want. To turn you into another weapon”

‘Sides that, those pulses being emitted along with what sounds like the Traveler howling in pain is haunting.

[half scaffold]

I genuinely wish this DLC introduced a mechanic where at the very least to YOU.

You can finally name your ghost, hell I’ve had a name for mine since D1 lol

[eager trout]

I don't

[half scaffold]

Ghost is frend

He deserves a serious hug

He’s always been there for me

[worn kernel]

I’ve been there since the Dinklebot Days.

[half scaffold]

I was as well

Dark times

[eager trout]

However, I do have a name for my Titan girl's Ghost

[worn kernel]

Frick, I was like 13 back in D1’s time, just a newborn Warlock taking in the mystery and coming up with theories. Fast forward to now. In my 20s squaring up to the Black Dorito Fleet and Discount Megamind

[half scaffold]

He’s my Frend

[half scaffold]

Black Dorito fleet

[eager trout]

Onion ring

[half scaffold]

Though it really is wild how long it’s been

[eager trout]

Bagel

[half scaffold]

I adore that this expansion really focuses on ghosts if you haven’t noticed XD

[worn kernel]

Makes me slightly concerned, especially with the emphasis on the Guardian Tenets

[half scaffold]

now bring back SRL Bungie cowards

[analog torrent]

You know daemons from His Dark Materials? Your soul, given a body outside of your body? Ghosts have always given me a similar vibe, really cool that they played a larger role this dlc
Not a 1:1 but they're similar

[half scaffold]

This entire thing has been one oof after another. The VAs have been giving some of their best performances

[chrome fog]

Then how would they go about the multiple times Ghost is addressed to directly, you would have to have every va record for each name combo which just isn’t feasible

[chrome fog]

Wait til the 11th

[half scaffold]

Comedic “oh sorry i keep forgetting your name” or just do what the Elsie does and have everybody else nickname him “little light”

[chrome fog]

True, that’s a true

[half scaffold]

The strike was actually a banger XD I love HATE How this campaign is basically a raid gauntlet

[chrome fog]

Eelleeveeenth

Really sorry and I know that feeling of wanting to share but it will have to remain in #1247252842465460225 until the 11th, otherwise Venetia might get mad

[empty fern]

BIONICLE, I have theory about current episode, do you wanna hear it in the said channel

[chrome fog]

Contemplating whether I should spend what little I have on the expansion

[eager trout]

Who is Venetia?

[empty fern]

The forbidden

[chrome fog]

Check pins

[chrome fog]

Maaaaybe

[half scaffold]

I was about to name an event and had to stop myself yeah XD good point

[chrome fog]

Super really I am completely sorry to you two, but also I cannot wait to hear from you guys in 6 days time

[worn kernel]

I can’t take my Prismatic activation stance seriously as a warlock main. Every time I do it I feel like I’m Dr Steven Strange.

[half scaffold]

Once I finish this and let it simmer I think I’ll have a better idea of it.

But honestly I’m just lost in the hype.

[empty fern]

Better than to be hyped in the loss

[half scaffold]

I reckon in about five weeks I’ll be able to sit down and “okay what works”

[eager trout]

What does that even mean?

[half scaffold]

It means hug your ghost goodnight

[empty fern]

Yes

[half scaffold]

Your fireteam too

[empty fern]

Maybe

[half scaffold]

Mostly your ghost

Protect your ghost

[empty fern]

[half scaffold]

Treasure him

[eager trout]

Me after making a Swiss Army Knife shell for my Ghost:

[worn kernel]

I name my ghost Meep

[half scaffold]

You know

All this tech

All these spaceships

Why TF can’t somebody give our little boy a fucking SHIELD and a Gatling gun?

Ultimate tracer shank

[empty fern]

“I heard they wire your brain right into the ship”
Excuse me tower npc 23? What ship needs brain wiring

[half scaffold]

Probably a fucking Tesla

That’s the raid boss

[empty fern]

Lmao

[eager trout]

Can Ghosts?

[empty fern]

It’s just fallen saber 3

[half scaffold]

Why ghosts?

[empty fern]

How ghosts? Wait we already know

[half scaffold]

Okay but that line from him of “I live in your backpack” is fucking adorable

[empty fern]

“Rasputin has an arsenal of space weapons”

[eager trout]

When you think about it, the design of everything related to the Witness is the opposite to that of the Traveler and the universe in general

[empty fern]

Naur

Too tired, gn

[eager trout]

The Traveler is a sphere, just like almost everything the universe. Circles are the most natural shape, while triangles are more unnatural and artificial.

[half scaffold]

The absolutely twisted nature of everything is 👌🏻

[half scaffold]

geometry wars HD

[eager trout]

Good night

Is it possible to make a Ghost shell out of a MIDA Multitool that retains most of its functions?

Imagine giving your Ghost a shell that lets it do anything

Actually, let's give our Ghost a nanotech shell that can transform into any tool.

[half scaffold]

Put him into an exo

[compact sky]

I'm convinced the eye in Felwinter's Helm is just your ghost

[chrome fog]

He took control of a javelin one time. Or a Drake. Can’t remember, but definitely once drove the Tank.

But also being active in the field makes them a target, which is dangerous because they are already a vulnerability for Lightbearers

Small moments of engagement like said time in the Drake is fine, but put them in a Shank shell with guns and as helpful as they are, they is gonna be targeted

[analog torrent]

What s upgamers lore pop quiz

Short responses: one word or one sentence answers
1: What color is Felwinter's chassis?
2: What type of candy does Saint frequently give Osiris?
3: What is the name of Oryx's worm?
4: What animal was Xiana McCaig spliced with?
5: What does MIDNIGHT EXEGENT entail?
6: Who was the first successful rider of the Ragged Valley?
7: Who broke Xur's back?
8: What is the name of the play Shaxx recited to Mara Sov?
9: Who was the second Hunter Vanguard?
10: Who is the Guardian that has jurisdiction over the Manhattan Nuclear Zone?
11: What is the name of the kid that Cayde-1 nearly shot?
12: What is the hobby that Chioma Esi is known to enjoy?
13: What did Tallulah Fairwind Wish for?
14: What authorization do you need to read about Zavala Action Vitamin Gummies?
15: Who was the Dredgen that Shin Malphur "killed" to send a message?

Long responses: cite at least 3 sources for each
1: Is the Iron Decree just?
2: What is the purpose of Truth to Power?
3: Did Marcus Ren let Enoch Bast win the race?

[compact sky]

rip sundance

[compact sky]

will this be in the exam

[analog torrent]

Yeas these are example questions that will be on the exam

[chrome fog]

We will need to confer with the rest of the teachers

[trim grotto]

Ooh this'll be fun

Ping me with this in three hours and I'll get right onto it

Also I see a trick question in here

[analog torrent]

I may be stupid
I didn't put a trick question in here

[pale pebble]

Hi guys I have a question, can u send Braytech link so other people can see like ur account? Is it safe?

[remote sky]

Aren't supers like configs of the imagination? Isn't anything technically possible?

[mystic mirage]

Can you kill a ghost with a regular gun

[trim grotto]

You'd want to ask #❓destiny-questions

[trim grotto]

Yes, quite easily

[stark fjord]

destiny lore national exams before gta 6

[analog torrent]

Someone with more lore knowledge needs to make a legitimate lore exam it'd be fun fr

[stark fjord]

Is the exam 50% of my grade?

[trim grotto]

In theory, but you'd have to practice it and become experienced to use it effectively

And as Crow said, you don't see a Warlock with a Golden Gun, suggesting that some things just don't work very well for some people

[mystic mirage]

Darn alright

[analog torrent]

Yeah
The other 50% is fashion

[remote sky]

..didn't he just pull a funny ?

[stark fjord]

Well it’s more of learned than inherited, like gameplay wise we are reborn as either 3 but lore wise it’s different

[remote sky]

Like he just did something entirely contradicting that statement

Not gonna specify what, if I must, drag me to spoiler

[stark fjord]

Funny and true

[ruby stream]

W lore?

[stark fjord]

Spoilore 😭

[ruby stream]

how is this a spoilore

[trim grotto]

You goblin, I haven't done the campaign yet

Shoo
Begone

[trim grotto]

I mostly agree. However, while I've gone into far greater detail about this topic that further elaborates on my meaning, it's clear there's new content I haven't experienced that's relevant

As such I'm dropping this discussion for now.

[stark fjord]

I respect u so much for this

[remote sky]

Dew it for the lore

[trim grotto]

Funny you should mention that
I've just finished my shift, I'm in my car, about to drive home

I'm on my way, Vuvuzela

Yes. She was resurrected at the end of the Season of the Witch. However, please stop mentioning spoiler content outside of #1247252842465460225particularly since I literally just said I haven't done the campaign yet.

[serene bison]

ok my bad

[remote sky]

I have a hunch on what this guy said but I'm gonna boast because I'm egomaniacal
At least I was vague

[chrome fog]

Moreso it is as vaguely defined as possible - if at all - so as to ensure any and all fantasies can be insterted. Though ironically to the “Warlocks aren’t waving around a Golden Gun”, Shaw Han has something of a Golden Gun of Radiance

[stark fjord]

Wait who was?

[chrome fog]

This is also from someone who hasn’t played the campaign and can’t until I both return home by the weekend and buy the expansion

[trim grotto]

Mrs Savvy Thoon

[stark fjord]

U mean when eris arath bonked her?

[trim grotto]

Eris Morn, yes. But we let her go afterwards as part of the deal.

[chrome fog]

Yes, then afterward she was rezzed and Immaru was left as collateral should we think she’s up to shenanigans

[trim grotto]

We kept Immaru though

[chrome fog]

And then Saint brutalized her a couple times as payback for possessing Osiris

[trim grotto]

More than a couple

Anywho driving time fairwell

[chrome fog]

So she still out there, now with the knowledge of what Saint is personally capable of

[stark fjord]

I’m hoping eris and immaru are compatible

Girly needs her light back asap

[chrome fog]

It doesn’t work that way

One Lightbearer, One Ghost

Also Immaru is already paired to Savathun

Unless the campaign reveals something, to which

[stark fjord]

well there were instances where ghosts can pick another guardian

[trim grotto]

Well that's literally never ever happened before in the entirety of our knowledge
There is one entry suggesting it's possible, but never ever seen. No Ghost has ever found a second pairing.

[stark fjord]

For example dregen yor

[trim grotto]

Nay

[stark fjord]

Did he not take someone’s ghost?