📚lore-discussion

[weak prawn]

Yup

[raw hazel]

He ded

[empty fern]

For good this time, no more necromancing

[weak prawn]

So that’s everyone in his blood line all gone right?

[empty fern]

Uhhhhhh, yea should be unless they do some weird hive stuff with the corpse again

[chrome fog]

Kilt him dead with Xol

I believe in the Warmind expansion for D2

[iron mortar]

Do y'all think oryx loved crota?

Or do you believe his desire to pursue the guardian was more of an ego thing and a desire to prove that his bloodline isn't weak

[chrome fog]

He loved his kids

Read any of the Book of Sorrow entries and it reads like a very wordy sitcom

The entry regarding his daughters’ discovery of the Deathsong is a pretty good example

[iron mortar]

Then why did he throw crota into the vex portal and let him fed for himself

[jagged badge]

That’s just how the Hive be

[jagged badge]

This doesn’t look like lore

[chrome fog]

Because he opened the portal in the firstplace

Again, sitcom with funny genocide bugs

[jagged badge]

I don’t care for your drama, it does not belong in this server. Deal with it privately

[formal barn]

I deleted it , no need for your attitude

[jagged badge]

It’s not attitude, it’s advice

[formal barn]

Sure

[chrome fog]

Be more aware of the time and place; even if "calling a b!tch out" were a thing allowed, it would be better in #✨destiny-discussion or #☀️off-topic-discussion

[jagged badge]

No point referring to other channels when this kinda thing shouldn’t be in the server at all

[formal barn]

No because the chat is way too fast for me to type , lore is dead

[chrome fog]

Irregardless not the channel for it, read the channel descriptions

[formal barn]

I know, that’s why i deleted it

[jagged badge]

Not the server for it, read the rules*

[formal barn]

You don’t have to tell more than once

[chrome fog]

Anyways

[chrome fog]

Here, the funny
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxviii-the-partition-of-death

And this
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxix-open-your-eye-go-into-it#books-of-sorrow

Or wait

[formal barn]

Thank god that you’re not a mod

[chrome fog]

This is not a server for beefing, go cool off or move to the suggested channels

If you wanna talk lore, you're welcome to

Otherwise please move this elsewhere

[formal barn]

Okay

[jagged badge]

You know an actual mod would be telling you this exact same thing right?

[formal barn]

Probably

[heavy vortex]

So true

[jagged badge]

Don’t discuss mod actions in chat

[analog torrent]

Oryx: Hey Crota your sisters are doing some nerd shit. They're very smart. You should be more like them. Anyway keep an eye on them, I'm going out for some milk
Crota: I gotta impress dad
Crota opens a Vex portal.
Crota, Ir Halak, and Ir Anuk spend 100 years fighting the Vex and trash Oryx's house in the process
Oryx: Hey guys I'm ba- what the fuck? Crota, I'm putting you in time out. Come back when you've thought about what you've done.
Crota is thrown into the Vex portal.

[chrome fog]

One of the Worm Gods shouted out to him that his kids were making a mess

Which is really funny because the default way their speech is typed out is all caps

So it’s like one of those situations where they call out a name for really long and really loud because shenanigans are happening again

[analog torrent]

The Books of Sorrow are peak comedy

“What are you doing, my daughters?” he asked. He was afraid that Ir Halak and Ir Anûk were trying to go into the Deep, where only the Tablets of Ruin allowed Oryx to go.

“We are dying, father,” they said. “As many times as we can manage.”

“That’s adorably precocious.” Oryx shook out his new wings. “But why?”

some yapping

Oryx brandished his sword. “Speak the Royal Tongue, or I’ll pin you up for Eir to eat.”

“Father’s going to eat our souls,” Halak sighed.

This drew the attention of the Worm our God. ORYX, called Eir. SET YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER.

[chrome fog]

Kekling

[analog torrent]

What was the state of travel during the Dark Age? Felwinter and Felspring were psyched to find a working jumpship so they had to have been exceptionally rare, but is there any more lore about Dark Age ships? How about sparrows?

I think Drifter had a ship during the Dark Age

[dull raft]

the books of sorrow made me want a hive family sitcom

[formal barn]

How strong is oryx lore wise compared to rhulk/the witness ?

[trim grotto]

There isn't exactly a linear chart, and Oryx's power waxed and waned - particularly when we systematically dismantled his tribute system and court.

Rhulk was very, very powerful, though. The Witness, of course, is stronger than Rhulk.

[chrome fog]

And Rhulk’s raid boss fight was him playing around, the Final Stand is him actually being serious

[formal barn]

Does a full power oryx stand a chance against any of them

[trim grotto]

The Witness, no. Rhulk? Maybe. We can't say.

As I said, there's no clear chart.

Were it not for our ability to redirect Rhulk's energy, we'd have never been able to harm him.
But were it not for our dismantling of Oryx's tribute network, we'd likely have been just as helpless, given that we were within his Throne World.

[chrome fog]

Much of our feats are reliant on this style of warfare, targeting crucial points of our enemies’ consolidated power, weakening them enough to take them down with a smaller fire/raidteam

[formal barn]

Yeah that’s why I’m asking, we weakened/nerfed oryx the most imo

[chrome fog]

Same across the board with all the bosses we’ve fought

[iron mortar]

It is hard to power scale in destiny as enemies are rarely defeated by raw power but with strategy and special weapons/technology

[chrome fog]

That or some caveat, like Xol being the weakest of the Worm Gods

[iron mortar]

You could make arguments for certain characters scale, for example Our guardian being stronger than Savathun(with a ghost) and Eramis as we canonically beat them solo and with raw power

But can't say we are stronger than Raid Bosses like Nez or Rhulk as they required 5 other people and dismantling their power and hitting weak spots

[formal barn]

What’s the strongest non villain character

[iron mortar]

Traveler?

[formal barn]

I mean like someone from the tower or smth

[analog torrent]

Osiris was busted before he lost his ghost, dude casted around 7 supers of different subclasses back to back and has shadow clones
Not sure if Mara Sov has fought anyone in lore but she's powerful
Saint
Ana Bray's golden gun shots have burned for centuries(?)
Ikora
Shin Malphur (I think)
Maybe Rasputin
Young wolf/the player

[formal barn]

Why do we always have to do the dirty work ! I swear they could carry us like crazy

[analog torrent]

We're canonically the most powerful guardian

Ana's busy with Bray stuff
Shin is retired, let the man rest
Rasputin is dead
Ikora, Saint, Osiris, are all busy running the city and/or helping us

[formal barn]

Yeah but they have alot of cool tricks/abilities that we don’t have

If they went in with eris they would’ve won

[chrome fog]

That’s the point, you do the dirty work to achieve the victory. What, you wanna just win a fight solely on your accolades?

Legends are made by one’s own making, not because they are ordained to succeed

Guardians make their own Fate. That’s literally one of the taglines

[jagged badge]

Ehh

[formal barn]

Not in game obviously, but if they told a story about them defeating a raid in the past it would be legendary!! Just a flashback

[chrome fog]

Curious whom went into the Vault of Glass before us hmmmmm

[formal barn]

It was not successful at all tho XD

[ember storm]

Forsaken, first mission

that’s why vanguard doesn’t do field work

[chrome fog]

Maybe read into Shaxx and Saint’s accolades, Osiris and Ikora’s as well

Also into the Great Disaster to learn why we opt for Strikes and smaller fireteams instead of full assaults

[formal barn]

Yea i feel like i’m yapping at this point , should’ve left when you told me to cool off

[chrome fog]

I mean these are fair questions to ask, it is natural to wonder if any of our enemies are more powerful than each other

[analog torrent]

As a side note, the pvp/pve split is real

In the Timur loretab, Felwinter (pvp main) sees some fallen, goes "oh no :(," and runs back to Timur, who nukes them

[exotic cloak]

We can't launch supers nonstop so I doubt

[analog torrent]

gameplay != lore

[chrome fog]

Still questionable, Saint took a ton of Vex down even when Lightless

[ember storm]

even so guardians do have a cooldown period

Osiris rapid firing supers is cool but it left him wide open to be killed by the high celebrant which is the point

he wouldn’t normally do that, it was Xivu Arath’s influence

our gameplay you can just take as a perfectly balanced and mediated amount of light expended, not too much or too little

otherwise you’d see a lot of what was happening in LF when we first found strand

[vagrant bridge]

Damn, remember when void used to be controversial because it was "close to the dark"

And now we're out here using stasis and strand

[empty fern]

Wasn’t the void debate after stasis came out? (Atleast whenever I heard it)

[vagrant bridge]

I think it was before, I remember hearing about it during the strike with the Eye of Savathun

[dim minnow]

In lore, people were wary of void at first due to them mistaking it for Dark

Pretty sure this was from D1

[empty fern]

Lmao

[ember storm]

it was brought up by drifter in light of stasis’ recent appearance

void controversy was in the dark age

[empty fern]

Speaking of drifter

Nvm

[analog torrent]

If Rasputin was able to extract Felwinter's memories from Felspring's shell in Seraph and Felspring's shell is still around, is it possible to repeat this process without Rasputin and put Felwinter's memories into a new frame?

[raw hazel]

If possible, at best it would just be a copy.

[analog torrent]

Ah yes
The ol' Ship of Theseus dilemma

[compact sky]

one thing that bugs me in the darkness subclass campaigns is when and why tf do they just decide to call it strand or stasis

aside from the very simple answers like strand is green string strands, and stasis freezes people... in stasis, what else makes them call it that out of the blue

[chrome fog]

One makes enemies and objects still in a singular position for a period of time, another forms unseen connections between points of physical space that otherwise don’t exist. It’s just like the Light classes, they do as the tin says.

Stasis ain’t even really ice, it’s crystallizing the atoms of a target into a facsimile of their prior form, your matter stops being what it was and becomes straight up crystal

[empty fern]

Thanosified freezing

[analog torrent]

where do you guys read your lore in the days following an expansion where everything is classified and not on ishtar

[raw hazel]

In-game?

Helps that the past year’s seasonal lorebooks and such is automatically unlocked.

[trim grotto]

Via osmosis
I log in to the game and then just absorb knowledge by proximity

[raw hazel]

I learn from Mael by eating his bone marrow

[trim grotto]

Hally will be forever ignorant as I hoard my marrowknowledge to myself

[dim minnow]

I just guess and somehow I always get it right

[analog torrent]

Can you guess if there will be iron lords in tfs 🙏

[raw hazel]

Have you counted your bones lately?

[dim minnow]

Saladin maybe

[chrome fog]

Unless Efrideet is coming out of retirement and/or Shiro comes out of hiding, it's us and Saladin as the only Iron Lords

[dim minnow]

Shiro wasn't even an Iron lord

he was a Vanguard Scout

[shadow crypt]

What’s the lore behind spire of the watcher

[dim minnow]

ok, so during the Golden Age, Clovis Bray and the Ishtar COllective decided to put their rivalry aside for a moment to create an advanced AI from Vex tech named Soteria

Soteria was meant to use the Vex's simulation capabilities to predict viable colony locations far beyond Sol

however, during an exercise, Soteria detected some unknown anomalies that prevented safe colonization in a distant galaxy

which we, the player, know to be the Witness

Soteria would reach out to Rasputin and give him a heads up which played a major role in his actions leading up to and during the Collapse

Soteria would also send out several colony ships against Clovis' command in an attempt to save at least some people

however, Clovis used Ares Spire, the location we go to in the dungeon, to capture and contain Soteria and to recall the colony ships she sent out

Ares Spire itself is a pillory bunker which is a facility meant to partition and trap AI minds like Rasputin

so while Soteria was unable to stop what Clovis was doing, it was able to break off a msall piece of itself and transfer it to a single colony ship which prevented it from getting hit by the recall command

that ship would then drift to Neptune which directly lead to the discovery of Neomuna

[naive raptor]

When we kill Calus, he shouts "Camaili." Is this his mother? Wife?

[cobalt mica]

what was so important about the last ship we get

i read it over and i couldn't make anything of it

[analog torrent]

unforseen consequences?

[cobalt mica]

yes

[analog torrent]

Crow accidentally wishes that he could apologize to Cayde, which may have led to his appearance in the Pale Heart

[cobalt mica]

wdym how did he wish when there isn't an ahamkara

[analog torrent]

That wasn't Mara

something something gleam of her eye, and the context = Not Mara

[cobalt mica]

so mara posed as riven

i mean

[analog torrent]

An Ahamkara was posing as Mara

[cobalt mica]

which ahamkara tho

[analog torrent]

I'm honestly not sure if it was Riven or not because she supposedly could only do one last wish

Be careful what you wish for.

He remembers his sister's throne differently

"I just wish"

Her eyes shine in the starlight.

she shimmers like a mirage on desert sands.

"O brother mine."

Some of this can be written off as imagery but combined, it paints a sense of uncertainty

"O ___ mine" invokes ontological power

And the description of the ship is "be careful what you wish for" and he makes a verbal wish

[raw hazel]

Riven

[desert tree]

question: is there a story behind the craters in the left side of the city?

[raw hazel]

Damage from the Red War

[trim grotto]

Excellent question!

We don't know.

[trim grotto]

Red Waaaar
Explosives go boom

[compact sky]

so do the orb colour change when a ghost switches shells?

like in Immaru's case, did he wear a shaded shell because people wouldn't be able to see his orb colour or is it just pure coincidence

[trim grotto]

We have seen Ghost cores with different formats, but in this specific case, it's too niche to accurately say. I'd wager it was just a coincidence, personally.

[compact sky]

I'd like to think it doesn't because the story would be way more hilarious

[blazing stream]

Kinda silly but Soteria got me thinking a Courage the Cowardly dog skit, where Soteria is pointing at the incoming threat and Clovis Bray is just shrugging it off as "Stupid rogue AI." Atleast Raspie listened.

[compact sky]

the ghost equivalent of a big coat and sunglasses

[trim grotto]

Haha yeah that's a good point

[iron mortar]

I thought that was because the pale heart represents the past of all aspects of the guardians memories

And those inside of it

[analog torrent]

Darkness is associated with memory
The vidoc says that the Witness shows you what it thinks you want

[trim grotto]

If it weren't for this context, then one would have to follow up with, where is everyone else?

[compact sky]

do we know how many people are in the last city?

[trim grotto]

No, we don't.

[blazing stream]

Crow's Ghost being named Pulled Pork by a Titan being a very Titan thing to do.

[compact sky]

tbf it does look like pulled pork

[blazing stream]

I actually like pulled pork so that titan is based

[compact sky]

too much taste but that's a me thing

[trim grotto]

She was also part of Shaxx's fireteam that retook the Wall during Twilight Gap

[compact sky]

wait, so what was Riven's final wish again?

[ember storm]

the wish to follow the witness

[trim grotto]

Plus the sneaky little Cayde one

[blazing stream]

Coolio, I just thought it funny a Titan giving their ghost a serious name and then seeing a wandering Ghost and go "Ayo it's Pulled Pork!"

[ember storm]

that was not the last one granted sequentially

[compact sky]

and waht was the difference between that and jumping through the pyramid shaped hole in the traveller

[ember storm]

the wish is the only way to get there safely, you’re physically incapable of just entering the portal

[trim grotto]

Her Ghost is called Agu, I think.

[blazing stream]

Yep, a serious real name

[compact sky]

bit confused, is that still unexplained how we're able to enter through in the upcoming dlc

[blazing stream]

Not food, ghosts are friends, not food.. Hive should take notes

[trim grotto]

Because when Joxer flew into the hole, his death echoed across all of time as his flesh merged with his jumpship.

[compact sky]

well, in Sony's case, the already released dlc

[compact sky]

who's joxer?

[ember storm]

that’s literally the point of it yes, but due to crow and Mara’s nature she’ll know how to navigate safely to his location

[blazing stream]

TFS released on playstation?!

[compact sky]

wasn't it like a huge slip up

[ember storm]

https://preview.redd.it/do-you-think-this-is-one-of-the-worst-ways-to-die-weve-seen-v0-wub7dnifyx1b1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=5f6d0ac2ec0848921e3a2ba9840f3bb88d7d994b

[blazing stream]

Huh?????

[trim grotto]

Sony leaked a playtest build to the public by accident

[compact sky]

it was released a few days early accidentally

[blazing stream]

👉👈 share?

[compact sky]

when was this?

[ember storm]

season of the deep is when the cutscene happened I believe

[trim grotto]

It's in #📢server-announcements somewhere I believe

[ember storm]

it was post Lightfall and our only attempt at a living person entering the portal iirc

[blazing stream]

My destiny lore deprived mind needs plot twists and giant witness

[ember storm]

all other attempts were drones which also failed

[compact sky]

I'm now confused at the timeline

[ember storm]

Lightfall ends with the witness opening the portal

[trim grotto]

What part is confusing?

[ember storm]

we’ve been looking for ways to enter it since, and eventually settled on riven’s help with a wish

[blazing stream]

Ends with Witness drawing a mosaic on a sphereical canvas, then dipping

[trim grotto]

Lightfall, Witness makes portal. Deep, Joxer dies horribly trying to enter. Wish, we use Wish Magic and the Veil to secure safe passage through the portal for one person. This is Crow, who will "open the door" to let the rest of us in afterwards.

[shadow crypt]

Ty

[compact sky]

so... Witness opens portal, Season of the Deep is when we ge to titan(idk why), Season of the Witch is Immaru (also dk why), and Season of the Wish is working with Riven to go through the veil/traveller portal

[blazing stream]

He's a talented artist, you wouldn't understand his Final Shape

[compact sky]

which cutscene is the joxer one, that looks weirdly hilarious

if not completely painful

[ember storm]

season of the deep is going to Titan, the logic being it’s a destination the witness previously stolen for us, so there’s clearly something it didn’t want us to see there

[analog torrent]

In TFS we see Site 6 and the original Iron Lords (this was revealed to me in a dream)

[ember storm]

it’s where we find Ahsa, who not only knows of the witness’ origins but also more details on its current plan

[compact sky]

wait, then how are we able to follow the Witness into the portal

[trim grotto]

Titan returns. We got info from the Occlusion (Soteria submind) on Neomuna that an enemy of the Witness is on Titan
We go there, speak to the Proto-Worm Ahsa, who directs us to Savathûn
Savathûn means Immaru, so we work with him to ward off Xivu Arath and find her passage through the portal
This is a Wish, which leads us to...

[trim grotto]

Because of all of Season of the Wish

[compact sky]

when did we get Immaru in the first place

[ember storm]

He contacted us as part of a deal

[compact sky]

Isnt Xivu Arath dead????

[trim grotto]

No.

[compact sky]

I took a year long break, I am so confused rn

[ember storm]

he wanted Savathun back to resurrect, since Ahsa told us that she had information we needed

[trim grotto]

We've never fought Xivu

[ember storm]

Immaru only agreed to resurrect Savathun under the condition we help him handle Xivu arath

it ends in Eris severing Xivu’s connection to her throne world, severely weakening her for the foreseeable future

[compact sky]

we had Savathun's body??

[ember storm]

that’s how witch queen ends

[blazing stream]

Lightfall: Witness opens a portal, effectively mortally wounding the traveler
Defiance: Guardians rescue civilians of the Last City from Shadow Legion concentration camps
Deep: Guardians help Sloane decipher the Witnesses plans with the Traveler and who can help us get in the portal
Witch: We help Eris kick Xivu out if her throne world and discover the means of finding out who to ask about the portal
Wish: we fulfill Riven's dying wish of saving the remaining Ahamkara eggs and Riven revives Cayde, helps Crow enter the Traveler and shows us the means to enter it's pale heart

[compact sky]

that makes sense

[ember storm]

Immaru runs away so we capture Savathun’s corpse

[trim grotto]

Ever since WQ when we killed her, yes. To stop Immaru from resurrecting her.

[ember storm]

season of the witch is both of us coming together and making a deal with it

[compact sky]

so Savathun's ressurected, ditched Immaru, and he's now being studied by Morn or smthng

[trim grotto]

He's basically been left with us as a "good will" gesture

[still wigeon]

What is the grey/black smoky stuff visible in most warlock helmets

[ember storm]

pretty sure it’s just visual flair because magic

[trim grotto]

I don't believe it was ever described

[blazing stream]

Didn't we revive Savathûn and enter an uneasy truce with her to focus on the Witness, also she didn't ditch immaru, Saint-14 killed her a hundred times offscreen to get pay back for Osiris, allowing Immaru to rez her each time

[ember storm]

it’s not a truce, it’s just both of us knowing that the witness is more important right now

[blazing stream]

It was kinda cool how Saint respected Savathun enough not to final death her after getting payback, Saint's the goat.

[trim grotto]

She did ditch Immaru. She told him to stay with us. We allowed him to resurrect her at this time.

[ember storm]

I mean it was more so just not wanting to murder Immaru

if he had a choice I think Saint would just want Savathun to never wake up, but he doesn’t

[blazing stream]

Ik but still, shows how he's grown from the Eliksni's Devil incarnate to Pigeon Lord

[ember storm]

none of the Eliksni had ghosts to resurrect them, that’s really the only difference

[compact sky]

more like he wanted her to suffer and truly fear him

not respect, revenge.

[ember storm]

he pulled the same thunderdome trick he made famous while crusading the houses

[compact sky]

he went full on Twilight Gap

[blazing stream]

But Saint was around during the Warlord days, he probably killed a few Ghosts of warlords, not confirmed but most D2 dark age characters had for the Last City

[compact sky]

and I don't think he even could given the political landscape. Get rid of Savathun, no more information

Savathun is just too much of an asset to kill.

[ember storm]

we don’t need her for information right now

[compact sky]

right now is the key word.

[ember storm]

we don’t want her alive in any capacity, she’s not aiding us at all

if the witness was not an issue, we would just be ending Savathun full stop

the only reason we’re not is because of the witness, it’s not some longevity plan

[compact sky]

She is still very much against the witness and it's good to have an unlikely "ally"

[ember storm]

Savathun fully knows this and that’s why Immaru was given to us

it’s just a “promise” that she’ll behave for the time being and we don’t need to mobilize all available forces to kick down her door and end her

[compact sky]

maybe we can kill Savathun after the Witness but it's just not possible to get rid of a potential help in the war

or at the very least dumb

[blazing stream]

I mean we kinda still do, she's spent eons serving the Witness seemingly more closely than Oryx or Xivu as she was being scouted as a potential Disciple for the Hive, she can gossip us all of Witnesses' dirty secrets all day.

[ember storm]

shes not helping whatsoever, that’s the point

she is not an asset, she is an active deterrent

the throne world as a whole is still hostile and runs of Savathun’s spire are conducted just to keep her in line

she is not giving us anything and we’re not looking for it

she is an enemy, not “enemy of my enemy”, just an enemy

an enemy of less priority, which is all she has going for her

[compact sky]

she still holds information we don't know. She can still be of use. If she has nothing to give, sure we can pull out the Apex Predators and Laments but right now, it's better to have her alive than to lose out on any information we may need in the future.

[ember storm]

this idea only works if we both know she has such information, but since she’s not sharing anything we don’t have any reason to believe she does

[compact sky]

fair

[ember storm]

we are not keeping her alive for safe keeping, you can make any argument you want, but that’s just not the established plot reason

we’re just too busy with the black fleet as a whole, there is nothing else to be gained from Savathun

this is not a time for her to try manipulating us, this is Savathun being as open and pathetic as possible to appear the least amount of threatening as she can

Saint was just reinforcing the current conditions

with a bit of personal vendetta mixed in of course

[half bay]

is cayde gonna be cayde 7 next season ? or does your number only go up when you're revived through exo stuff rather than light stuff

[analog torrent]

He hasn't been reset so he's still Cayde-6
number goes up for exo stuff

[half bay]

should go up in decimals if you're revived by a ghost

cayde 6 is dead, long live cayde 6.1

[analog torrent]

Exo thanatonauts would be way up lol
Unless the decimals approach a limit

[half bay]

Do we have any idea who the vex antagonist might be in Echoes? I don't really know any notable vex names

oh and when we're in the cyberspace looking environments are we actually converted into data to go in or is it just a weird looking physical space

[half bay]

I guess maybe the sol divisive ?

[blazing stream]

How many times you wanna kill her?

Like we killed her in a campaign, we killed her in a seasonal activity, we killed her in a lore card, we killed her in a cinematic cutscene, would turning her into a gun be enough?

[trim grotto]

Most likely. The theories are currently going that the 227 are involved, perhaps including Praedyth, and Aspect would suggest the Sol Divisive are involved.

[half bay]

aspect? Not sure what that is

can't find anything about the 227 online either haha

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-aspect

[trim grotto]

Uno momento

[analog torrent]

(grimoire 3) The ishtar collective found 227 clones of themselves in a vex simulation

tldr
mael knows more about it than me 🙏

[half bay]

is there any particular reason that there's no darkness equivalent of ghosts, or is it just that there's no "darkness traveler" to make em?

[raw hazel]

Ideally when she stays dead.

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/ishtar-collective
Second paragraph of the summary explains it
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-vex#ishtar-collective
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-vex-2#ishtar-collective
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-vex-3#ishtar-collective
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-vex-4#ishtar-collective

Their story in more detail
Read these before Aspect

[half bay]

oh cool thanks

[chrome fog]

She hasn't given up any of her habits from being a Hive God, and we know she is perfectly willing to play perceived allies to garner knowledge for herself and only for her to keep. Hell, Witch has us discover her secret experiments of Scorn, Hive, and Taken in the underbelly of her Throneworld. Saint did not keep Immaru alive for any honorable reason, it was solely because he only wanted Savathun to suffer for possessing Osiris and trapping him within his own body, and make sure she could feel every death and live with the pain they brought, to pay it back tenfold for what she did to his lover.

[trim grotto]

The Darkness isn't want to bring things back from the dead, nor is it known for erasing memory. Light and Dark are two sides of the same coin, but the sides are distinctly different and not a 1-1 opposite.

Also, the Veil would be considered a "Darkness Traveler".

[half bay]

yeah I heard byf describe it as such in his 10 hour epic but didn't know if it was an accepted take haha

[trim grotto]

Furthermore, we don't actually know the details of how Ghosts were formed. Some theories suggest they actually have some Darkness within them, a sort of mixture.

[chrome fog]

So the Veil is somewhat a Darkness counterpart to the Traveler, but there is not a whole lot we know about it really. Another way to look at it, the Ghosts already possess Light and Darkness capability within them - and it is implied that originally the Traveler encompassed all paracausality, Darkness included - which is demonstrated by their reconstruction and ressurection of their chosen Lightbearer for Light and their ability to deign information on objection through scans for Darkness. This latter ability is referenced as Ghostsight, but isn't elaborated on much other than basically how we are able to learn the history of some stuff when we let our Ghost do a scan on a Scannable

[trim grotto]

We merely know they were created by the Traveler at the apex of the Collapse

[half bay]

How hard is the ghost/guardian link? Can either end break it off whenever they want? Do they have any sort of telepathic link or is all their communication verbal?

[half bay]

I'll have a peek through these, ty

[chrome fog]

Adding to this, there is also that pull that Ghosts feel towards their Chosen, though considering Eris' was a City citizen then rezzed, there is the possibility of their Chosen Lightbearer not having been born and/or died yet, thus stalling that pull. In the Dark Ages, some Ghosts had also discovered they could resurrect those whom they felt no pull towards, as is demonstrated in the lorebook Ghost Stories, specifically the "Confession of Hope" entries, wherein a Ghost resurrects a baby that had died whilst the group it was with was evading Fallen. This is a lot to say "more Darkness-in-Ghosts evidence"

Much of the mechanics behind Ghosts' resurrection is still an unknown even with centuries since the Collapse (and the initial and only production of Ghosts by the Traveler) and a dedicated group that researches Guardian death.

[chrome fog]

Ghosts/Guardians can only have one partner and one partner only, if they lose one or the other through some way permenantly, they cannot find another to link with.

[trim grotto]

Yes, but it's been a very rare encounter

Some do, not all

[chrome fog]

If it could happen, it would have by now

[half bay]

ah ok so a ghost can't just go around reviving random people (I thought that would be a bit silly lol)

[chrome fog]

There is also Ghosts willingly refusing to ressurect their Guardian out of concern

[trim grotto]

Yeeaaah

Don Quixote

[chrome fog]

Same lorebook, two entries detail Ghosts who abandoned their Risen

(Question was Chosen another name for Lightbearers? Feel like I've heard it used as such, and just realizing that there's also the Risen name for them)

[trim grotto]

Chosen and Risen functionally mean the same thing and are interchangeable, yes.

[chrome fog]

Ok neat just checking my vocab

[chrome fog]

The two entries of Ghosts abandoning their Chosen
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/whether-windmills-or-cranes#book-ghost-stories
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-chosens-choice#book-ghost-stories

[half bay]

thank you, will have a look : )

[lime tiger]

so is savathun and xivu dead? i kinda got lost on the story

[chrome fog]

The whole book is a great read

[trim grotto]

No and no

[lime tiger]

ok haha

whats savs sword logic stuff at? since eris sworded her or whatever right?

[trim grotto]

Savathûn wasn't really affected by anything to do with that.

Eris Morn used this boost in power to sever Xivu's connection to her Throne World.

[chrome fog]

Savathun is a Lightbearer, we have let her go in the meantime to focus on taking down the Witness, she's backing off because why the fuck would she let the Witness fuck over existence; Xivu Arath is still alive, have not directly fought her in any way, simply cut her off from her Throneworld both with the Tithe accumulated in Season of the Witch and all the Tithe Savathun had held that had nowhere to go, as she was not killed in combat by anyone to claim her tithe.

[lime tiger]

how does what we did with eris and what eris did to sav affect xivu?

[trim grotto]

We made Eris strong. Eris got stronger by killing Savathûn. Eris used strong magic to cut Xivu off. This made Eris lose strong magic.

[lime tiger]

other than eris being another person high in sword logic

how come us killing sav not make us sword logicy

[chrome fog]

Eris Morn was able to achieve a Hive God form by ritual as well as utilizing Ahsa as her surrogate worm, with considerably more tithe granted to her as Ahsa abstained from partaking of any of it unlike most worms. Otherwise she couldn't have achieved such a form

Cutting off Xivu Arath from her Throneworld did not necessarily weaken her, but it did prevent her from having any other chance to come back to life if and when we kill her

[lime tiger]

oh no worm of ours?

[trim grotto]

Because we don't have the Catalyst of a Hive Worm to consume the tribute. Eris got her catalyst through a temporary partnership with Ahsa.

Well, we did have a Worm On A Stick to process Eris's tribute, but that doesn't really count.

[chrome fog]

1. we killed her as a Lightbearer, she had died prior to that post-Season of the Lost as we had literally taken a piece of her out of her body and also she stabbed herself with part of the Stasis prison she was in. Technically she killed herself
2. like Mael said, we would need a Worm to process the tithe of the Sword Logic, and Ahsa is fairly close in biology to the worms, as she belong to the species the Worm Gods used to be, and the Worms within all Hive are either bred or cut off from the Mother Worm, Xita

And the worm in a crystal on a stick, like Mael again said (never considered the lore entry for that season's relic in that way)

[lime tiger]

ok thx

[chrome fog]

So by the time she got resurrected in Witch and then was killed by Eris, that tithe finally had somewhere to go

[lime tiger]

whats the status of toland? been pretty lost on him since really dreaming city, but sorta understood shadowkeep

[chrome fog]

Dumb idiot still stuck on his tiny-ass throneworld, which is that ball you see

[trim grotto]

Apart from taunting Eris recently, unsuccessfully
Not much has been up with Toland

[trim grotto]

[lime tiger]

is he "bad" he seems to be not for us, but not against us either.

[chrome fog]

Tried making us follow the Sword Logic but we just kept ignoring him and killing most of the Hive pantheon

[trim grotto]

He enjoys being a know it all. Kinda harmless but thinks sword logic and Hive are best.

[lime tiger]

even tho we just followed sword logic with eris

[trim grotto]

Very temporarily

[lime tiger]

bro is a hive weeb fr

[trim grotto]

That's not his Throne
That's just him

[lime tiger]

do we even know how hes not ded ded

[chrome fog]

He talks to us

[lime tiger]

cause he was death sung right?

[chrome fog]

His corporeal body is gone, but whatever remains of him is that little ball

[lime tiger]

but why did other deathsong victims not have the same thing happen

[trim grotto]

This guy studied Hive for so long and so intensely that he was exiled for it

[chrome fog]

I wanted to rebuttle that the grimoire card has himself describe as being in the Ascendent Plane, but that technically does not mean he has a Throneworld, just that he's no longer corporeal in the conventional sense and now resides in the weird soul dimension layer of existence

[chrome fog]

Such a Hive nerd before Eris he most likely had some sort of way to preserve his conciousness or whatever after hearing the Deathsong. Maybe because he tried identifying as a friend to one of the Deathsingers and they found him odd, they did not wholly erase his existence. In any case he was lucky and got what he wanted, to hear the Deathsong.

[lime tiger]

thx

[trim grotto]

Even if it is a Throne World, I wouldn't describe his form as a Throne World, nor that he is stuck in it. He sails the sea of screams freely.

[eager trout]

More of a Throne Self

What skin colors can Eliksni have?

[analog torrent]

Osiris threatened a Warlord's Ghost and Sagira told them to find a better host

"To reunite with the Traveler. To find someone new. Someone better."
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/5-moths-to-flame-part-ii#book-the-pigeon-and-the-phoenix

Maybe it's a Shin Malphur (who is an outlier adn should not be counted, I know) situation where the ghost "hangs out" with someone new rather than Choosing someone new though

[trim grotto]

The problem with this entry is that it, too, is an outlier. We've never seen any evidence of this actually occurring, and Sagira's word is all we have on the supporting side of the discussion.

[trim grotto]

Try browsing Destinypedia. One thing they're consistent at are good screenshot archives.

[eager trout]

Only problem is most of the Eliksni are wearing armor and masks, which cover everything except their eyes and maybe hands, in which case the lighting doesn't help

Ok, it seems to range from almost pink purple to almost black purple

[iron mortar]

Like I think that is the just of their look

I think eliksni look cooler with masks

Look at Taniks sure

[fresh zephyr]

Can you imagine if the end of Final Shape's story is just Giancarlo Esposito closing his story book from the original D1 trailer and the credits play

🙏🏻

[blazing stream]

It was one time! And we all felt gross the morning after, never trying that stuff again.

[blazing stream]

Nah, I wanna throw hands with the Witness Rocky style

Me and Cayde when the Witness gets depowered and becomes mortal because we sweet talked the Winnower

https://tenor.com/view/anime-jumped-jujutsu-kaisen-noob-gif-21288941

[jagged badge]

How can you sweet talk the Witness to beat the Witness?

[gentle geyser]

2 guardians vs millions of people lets go

[rancid socket]

I mean, the guardian is no stranger to mass murder. Just think of every vex frame you’ve destroyed.

[blazing wasp]

I believe we even have one canonical case of genocide as a war crime.

[blazing stream]

Found a guy on Onslaught named Sjur Eido using Wish-ender and decked in Awoken esque hunter armor.. with the Amethyst Stronghold emblem

I gave him "Best Dressed" immediately

[minor portal]

Anybody has any theories about why that mf Cayde is back? Is the inside of the Traveler the afterlife?

[jagged badge]

Supposedly an inadvertent wish from Crow may be related

[fringe smelt]

Returning player trying to get caught back up on the lore, when did they change Mara Sov? While never evil (she helped us in D1 both in the intro, HoW and TK) she definitely was conniving and her lore did not reflect her in a favorable light with how she treated and manipulated crow. But now on the little bit of lore ive been able to get caught up on via youtube she seems to be painted in a much more benevolent light

[empty fern]

Queen stuff

[ember storm]

It’s not that she’s “benevolent” she’s just genuinely a better person than she was ten years ago

literally dying, watching your brother commit mass murder and then get killed, watching thousands of your people die, and having the Witness itself tell you that you’d be prime disciple material is very capable of changing a person

[fringe smelt]

Was there a specific event that changer (ie the events of forsaken and coming back after that)?

[fringe smelt]

Oh I didnt know she spoke to the witness, that does make sense then

Is Byf's content accurate and good for getting caught up?

[ember storm]

it’s a reliable option if you don’t want to look yourself or read

his latest video summarizing the entire story so far is 10 hours

[winged abyss]

I have a question, is us gaining prismatic make us God's now?

[chrome fog]

Not really

Just another subclass, one where we seamlessly access the aspects and abilities of all other elements

Some already see us being bestowed the Light via our Ghosts as a claim to “demigod-hood” but we don’t consider ourselves in such high regards

[trim grotto]

mm. the term of godhood is a very subjective concept regardless. oryx was a hive god, and we killed him. does that make us gods? to some, maybe. to others, no.

godhood is not an objective level on a scale

[chrome fog]

There are individuals such the aforementioned Hive Gods who benefit from/earned such titles by virtue of embodying the aspect they pertain to, but otherwise that is all it is, a title.

[fresh zephyr]

Didn't Rhulk laugh at the concept of a Throne World

[trim grotto]

yeppers

[fresh zephyr]

Lmao

Rhulk:
Walks in
Laughs at the Hive
Refuses to elaborate
Leaves

[trim grotto]

Dies

[fresh zephyr]

I miss him everyday. My beloved cosmic Count Dooku❤️

[jagged badge]

[fresh zephyr]

It's so tragic that if Rhulk had been cared for by his family, everything would've changed

And the Witness just feeds his pride and power, until he's just a total psychopath with no redeeming qualities😭😭😭

[trim grotto]

i mean
he was pretty far there before the witness popped in

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah, but I feel like everything changed once he fell down the abyss.

I could be wrong (been listening to the Byf video lol) but didn't his family seem relieved that he fell?

[trim grotto]

i imagine they were, given his psychopathic rage tendencies even prior to that event

[fresh zephyr]

Eramis is also tragic. All she wanted to do was make a new Riis, and the Witness weaponised her into a lure to Stasis.

She probably thought that the Witness had chosen her, and it would help her achieve a new home, but then it just abandons her in the end, and only brings her back to throw her after the reliquaries

[trim grotto]

I find Eramis to be far more tragic than Rhulk, by leagues. She really truly wanted more for the Eliksni, at first, even despite her rage.

[fresh zephyr]

Exactly

And despite the Vex Portal incident, she really and truly cared for her people

If the Witness is defeated, I can't wait to see Eramis finally free

[stark fjord]

Wait is eramis being held hostage?

[fresh zephyr]

Because wasn't the revived scorn version of (phylaks?) supposed to be a punishment for her failure

[fresh zephyr]

Nono. But I think she's bound through Stasis?

And she's left Sol because she thinks the universe is ending

[trim grotto]

No. She's tired. Abandoned. Lost hope. She wants to leave and find her mate she left behind, Athrys.

[stark fjord]

Like if she betrays them she will turn to ice?

[stark fjord]

Arthritis?

[trim grotto]

Athrys. Like Athrys's Embrace, the Hunter Exotic.

[ember storm]

he’s a guy who moped about daddy issues while skinning cats

he wasn’t a good person

[stark fjord]

😭

[stark fjord]

😌 I can fix him tbh

[trim grotto]

Anyway, The Witness doesn't care what she does now, I think. It's abandoned her.

[fresh zephyr]

It's so tragic.

All the Disciples that want nothing but war and pain, and armies the Witness has created.

Onslaught especially highlighted this to me. You see all these Eliksni and Hive fighting a battle that the Witness cares nothing about, wasting their lives away.

And Eramis just wants it all to stop, and to return to the life she had

[trim grotto]

Naught but tools in the hands of the Witness. Even Rhulk, who stood by it for eons.

[fresh zephyr]

It's horrible to think about, yeah

[stark fjord]

Real talk but was the speaker a light bearer

Or was he a long life species like exo or awoken

[ember storm]

he was just incredibly fucking old

human lifespan in destiny is around 300

[stark fjord]

I mean he has a British accent so I would assume awoken

[trim grotto]

No. Just a human. A very old one.

[stark fjord]

Yeah and then some tbh

[ember storm]

human, born on earth in the dark age

[fresh zephyr]

It makes me wonder if the Shadow Legion are abandoned on Neomuna. Calus is dead, he's done his job.

[ember storm]

they’re basically all braindead so it’s not like they can get upset about it

[stark fjord]

Real talk but if the traveller went away would lifespan revert to 100?

[fresh zephyr]

Some of them are Red Legion and defectors though

[empty fern]

Nope

[ember storm]

no, it’s due to general technological enhancements

[stark fjord]

Isn’t the light like life energy?

[ember storm]

it’s not like the traveler is constantly giving people light, that’s exclusive to ghosts and their guardians

[fresh zephyr]

It's kinda crazy to think about all the pain the Witness has created

[stark fjord]

I can fix him tbh

[ember storm]

humanity just developed to the point where lifespan is usually triple what it is in real life because we’re goated like that

[fresh zephyr]

Actually cosmic Palpatine

[ember storm]

Eliksni in their prime created mobile ether distributors which can convert virtually any matter into the sustenance they need to live, plus all their vehicles and weapons are literally made of garbage

[fresh zephyr]

The Beyond Light hand drawn cutscenes are so sad. You see the Eliksni so happy, and then they became what they did after the Whirlwind and the Long Drift

[stark fjord]

Real talk but is ether atmosphere or growth hormone

[ember storm]

it’s a special chemical that was in their home planet’s atmosphere, meaning the life there was all dependent on it

Eliksni can’t properly survive without that chemical so they constantly synthesize it with Servitors

it’s meant to reference how insects in real life evolved smaller and smaller due to lowering oxygen levels

[trim grotto]

Kind of both! It's a semi-gaseous material.

[fresh zephyr]

I wonder if Mithrax will be the new Speaker

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/fshFeLsZdsc?si=LSa1hqtEapg3gTt4

[ember storm]

not how it works, you’re not “elected”

you have the gift from birth or you don’t, and he doesn’t

closest nowadays is Micah but like we don’t need a speaker anymore

[fresh zephyr]

But didn't the Last Speaker lie?

[trim grotto]

He sort of lied about lying

[ember storm]

he didn’t lie, he just omitted the truth (which wasn’t particularly accurate at that stage anyway)

the standard speaker mantra in the golden age ended with “the traveler will leave us” which was the intended outcome of visiting civilizations, helping cultivate them, then moving on to help the next

[trim grotto]

The Speaker didn't speak for the Traveler, for the Traveler couldn't speak. It sent cryptic visions and dreams that the mask would help clarify, and that was the best the Traveler could do in its state of coma.

[fresh zephyr]

Also in the Into the Light lore books, it mentions reuniting the Vanguard once the Witness is dead? That's cool

[ember storm]

the witness attacking and causing the collapse left the traveler staying with humanity, but the speaker didn’t know that

the speaker was the last one ever born and it was post-collapse, so he only had old records to work with

he decided to never bring up the idea of the traveler leaving and tried keeping the city in a perpetual state of total trust in the traveler

[fresh zephyr]

Damn

[ember storm]

at the end of his life the traveler basically said “you can retire now” so he had no qualms when he died

[trim grotto]

The Last City functioned on a council of three Factions, the Vanguard, and the Speaker.
Currently, we have... 2/3rds of the Vanguard left, and that's it. We need a new government.

[fresh zephyr]

Consensus 2.0

Actually probably not lol

[ember storm]

Concurrence

[trim grotto]

If I may, on the topic of the Speaker
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-constellations
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/radiant-accipiter

Read these, in order, to learn all you need know about the Speaker.

[fresh zephyr]

At least Osiris isn't exiled anymore

[ember storm]

to be clear, the above entries include other speaker

[trim grotto]

Represent the new alliances, perhaps. Vanguard, Last City (Hawthorne?), Neomuna, House of Light, Cabal Ascendancy.

[ember storm]

the book gives you insight on speakers as a whole, but only the ones starting with “I am the last speaker” is the one we know

[fresh zephyr]

It is really crazy to see the difference between how things were in even 2017, and how they are now

[fresh zephyr]

I'd love that. I think we've definitely taken huge steps, and now the Cabal are even in the Tower defending it

[ember storm]

vanguard seriously needs to step up their game about workplace violations though

I don’t think having armed guards with five babies strapped around their chest is a good idea

[fresh zephyr]

Agreed lmao.

I still think about it sometimes. Some of the Ascendancy are former Red Legion right?

[trim grotto]

Yes, some joined with Caiatl.

[ember storm]

Caiatl welcomed all remaining cabal in the system to join her empire when she arrived, some joined and some didn’t

the red legion was effectively the empire’s main military force, but some were totally loyal to Ghaul/themselves instead

[fresh zephyr]

That's crazy. Shows the progress we've made. From fighting, to uniting together.

That Firefight in Desperate Measures really solidified the Coalition for me. Fighting with Caiatl

[ember storm]

I want to have a brig we can pilot

Insurrection Prime has just been sitting in the Eliksni quarter for years now

[fresh zephyr]

Was it the Skyburners thay couldn't come home unless they were glorious? I know they sent the signal to Ghaul after Phobos and their Primus being Taken

[ember storm]

no cabal were allowed to return home unless victorious

[fresh zephyr]

Damn😭

[ember storm]

but the D1 cabal were all scouting teams and researchers

[fresh zephyr]

Even the ones that crashed their ship into the Dreadnaught? Goddamn

[ember storm]

they weren’t equipped for full war, so they sent a distress call and were later absorbed into red legion forces when they arrived

[fresh zephyr]

It's crazy to me that some Red Legion stayed behind instead of joining Caiatl, because now they're just enemies of everyone

I can see the pull to Calus though, having the Witness at your back definitely seems like the winning side lmao

I don't even wanna know how many Dread are waiting for me😭

[ember storm]

they’re probably mass produced experiments

it’s the only explanation we have so far, Tormentors apparently being due to Calus’ involvement

the only appeal to Calus is his extensive genetic engineering tech, so

[fresh zephyr]

I can imagine the Witness brought with it all of the strongest and greatest it has at its disposal for the final act of its plan.

When it went through the Veil

I'm sure I'm not the only one to think it, but what if there's a Disciple that followed the Witness in

[chrome fog]

The Traveler only arrived centuries past our current day

Not even the right time period for him to have comeback from the dead

[stark fjord]

He was an angle 🥺

[gentle geyser]

I love that in hall of champs theres a welder with a baby looking directly into the sparks

[stark fjord]

Is all u say ‘Jesus was a warlock’

U must be fun at parties

[gentle geyser]

Hilarious

[lucid merlin]

Jesus Was A Warlock

[jagged badge]

@heavy vortex there’s some spam going on

[dense pike]

Jesus Was A Warlock muted.

[heavy vortex]

Can’t even play my game in peace

[jagged badge]

Sorry

[heavy vortex]

Thanks

[stark fjord]

Icon

Yall I think Jesus was a warlock /j

[compact sky]

so how do Hive Ghosts get their shells, is there like a pile of hive shells that Savathun made in her throne world

[stark fjord]

Real

[chrome fog]

Genuinely the only explanation

[compact sky]

weirdly hilarious

[stark fjord]

Basically ghosts change their form to acclimate to their surrounding, like how ghosts became more robotic for humans to fit golden age tech

Basically if they think it they can wear it

[chrome fog]

That or some transformation spell that made their new shell grow that way, some other thing. It’s not because they resurrected a Hive necessarily, they just adopted that look either by accepting a shell given to them or using a similar process to how they find/create armor

[jagged badge]

What?

[stark fjord]

Am I wrong?

[compact sky]

iirc in A Big Fan, it's described that Immaru left his shell into a dusty old Shaded Shell

[jagged badge]

Shells are physical things they have to physically change. Immaru has to temporarily leave his Hive Ghost shell to put on a Sunglasses shell when he was snooping around in Festival of the Lost

[compact sky]

so I don't think that's the case

[jagged badge]

Literally just an empty shell he found in a box somewhere

[compact sky]

^

[chrome fog]

Question, Eris, do you remember that but from the Cryptarchy about uuhhhh Ghosts taking material from a surrounding area to semi-forge armor for us when we first Rez?

[stark fjord]

I think Eris is gonna adopt immaru?

[compact sky]

The dad that doesn't like cats adopting the stray cat is very comical

[chrome fog]

She’s his parole officer

[jagged badge]

I vaguely remember that being a thing but I dunno the source

[chrome fog]

I know either Sars or someone was complaining about why the Deep Explorer armor was the armor we got from the Nightmare dungeon, which led to them explaining that mechanic

[stark fjord]

Guys ngl I think ikora is a hunter

/j

[chrome fog]

@trim grotto do you remember this?

[compact sky]

adding to this: is there just a bunch of regular traveller shells in a lost and found-esque storage unit somewhere in the throne world

[empty fern]

Remember talking about fabricating armor in space? (I do)

[compact sky]

a non bulky titan irks me for some reason

also what's the lore reasoning for why Eris Morn decides to turn her ship to a goddamn rock

[empty fern]

What?

[compact sky]

I'm dumb, bad memory sorry

...I honestly don't know what I was thinking of???

[empty fern]

Her ships been cayded and the rock is an ahamkara bone I think

[compact sky]

wdym by Cayded

honestly very confused rn

[empty fern]

(Cayde borrowed it)

Then the invis on it ran out, then the dreadnaught saw it, (then the mission starts)

(Cayde took eris morns ship then blew it up)

[stark fjord]

Killed off I’m assuming

[empty fern]

(Nah the usual cayde antics of breaking stuff)

[jagged badge]

Well, we were piloting it tbf

[empty fern]

Shhhh

[fresh zephyr]

That image of our tiny ship faced off against the giant Dreadnaught still scares the hell out of me. It's so empty, but intimidating emptiness

Talented people at Bungie, even back then

[empty fern]

[ember storm]

I liked the part where a corsair corpse floating through space splats on the window and our trusty animal sidekick goes “cleanup on aisle 3” and turns on the wipers

[compact sky]

so wearing a hunter's cloak is a way to honor them, but what if that hunter dies

do you just wear the same cloak as the old hunter? Or do you wear another piece of armor?

at what point do you just copy their entire fashion to honor them and their predecessors

[fresh zephyr]

I wear the Ghally cloak from Eververse, as I like to think it remembers everyone who fell at Twilight Gap

Same with the actual Ghally

[modern finch]

Remind me - we're not a special rank or anything as our Guardian? We're just the one they call when sh really hits the fan and they can't call up Fireteam X

[empty fern]

Not sure, specific individual guardian would interfere with gameplay logic,

We do earn many titles like young wolf and stuff, but so did every other player

[gray canyon]

in lore are there new guardians being made still or are they a limited about?

[gentle geyser]

Yes and yes

There are still ghosts that haven’t found their guardians

[jagged badge]

No

[empty fern]

Aw man

[jagged badge]

There is one Young Wolf. The Guardian. The Hero of the Red War, etc.

[gentle geyser]

The player character is in every single instance of gameplay in terms of story

The Guardian has some pretty damn impressive feats because of that

[blazing wasp]

raids and content done with multiple people canonically are done by unnamed randoms.

[molten briar]

FYI we die Final Shape

Live on in Vex network

According to Season of Dawn

https://tenor.com/view/troll-troll-face-gif-25116980

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah, I'm actually a legend in the Last City

They call me the Swan of Vengeance

[chrome fog]

Already diverged from that timeline, as in it was already an alternate future we are not headed towards

[fresh zephyr]

Never say never

The Witness can do what it wants, that's terrifying

[chrome fog]

No we literally changed it

Like, that’s the whole point of 1) the Infinite Forest bring simulations of other timelines and 2) most if not all the Dark Futures that Elsie has experienced not being true

[fresh zephyr]

Quria literally said she's seen our grave. That's ominous as fuck

[chrome fog]

Again, alternate timeline

No other timeline had destroyed the Black Heart, which has dominoed into this timeline being the closest to being victorious in our battle against the Witness, plus now we actually know it is not the Darkness that is responsible for the corruption and conflict in the universe, it was the Witness the entire time

Also don’t believe what Vex simulate, they can’t account for Paracausality anyways so they can’t as accurately predict possible Guardian action

[fresh zephyr]

In the grave reflection though, Saint mentions us being the Hero of the Red War, among other things though

[chrome fog]

Again again, alternate timeline

And there is a history of us not following the through line of other timelines

[fresh zephyr]

But all Elsie's Dark Futures end at the same place, and she ends up back in the Tower. It might be a prediction, not a prophecy. But it could definitely happen I feel

[chrome fog]

Take for example Hive God Eris

[fresh zephyr]

The Witness is just too strong for there to be zero consequences

[chrome fog]

She became a Hive God as Elsie had once experienced in one timeline

But she did not fall for the temptation of power this timeline

Unlike what Elsie had experienced in that Dark Future

[raw hazel]

I actually do remember this, I was trying to look for it the other day

[fresh zephyr]

The Witness must have some really beefy Tormentors at the front door I'm ngl

[split viper]

Have we ever had anything on this being?

I’ve been digging around and the only thing I found was this short 3 second clip from the “witness origin” cutscene

[jagged badge]

They don’t end at the same place

She’s experienced many different branches were things go wrong in different ways

[jagged badge]

Pretty much all of the Pyramids we’ve been in have had these Veiled Statues

But they’ve never been a moving being until that shot of the trailer

[split viper]

I personally feel like this is a whole diff character kept aside secretly

Maybe as the true link to break apart the connection of the witness?

[fresh zephyr]

Ohhh

[devout nimbus]

Who's Yirix

[devout vine]

The Psion defector

Rebel against Caiatl's empire

Sympathiser of calus and the witness

[devout nimbus]

Ah ok

[analog torrent]

People keep talking about “the reveal” this and “the reveal” that about Drifter and Shin. Shin was Orsa/Vale and Drifter was Hope but when did Drifter learn that Vale is the Renegade? Is that the reveal?

[raven glen]

Im curious i wonder how the final boss will end or be like will witness have many forms? Aka we all know he gonna be a raid boss

[weak prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/no-chiochannotsuugakuro-tsuugakuro-chio-angry-gif-20916744

[molten briar]

Play Season of Dawn?

I believe it’s going to happen but we live on elsewhere

[analog torrent]

Is there a present day/irl equivalent to Rasputin? Haven’t watched Terminator; he appears to be some sort of supreme overlord that handles all matters related to humanity’s defense/security and can enact martial law at any time if it’s dire

[ember storm]

there isn’t really anything comparable to Rasputin at this point

Rasputin was largely meant to aid humanity by paying attention to things we couldn’t or didn’t want to currently (at least on paper)

in retrospect we now know that most of Rasputin’s reach was because Clovis wanted to enact his will on the entire solar system and usurp the traveler

so, y’know

[compact sky]

what stops ghosts from choosing literally anyone

other than the hive.

[woeful stream]

Wdym exactly?

Cuz the ghosts just choose whoever they think is worthy

Of the light

[ember storm]

there still needs to be a connection to the light they can touch

[woeful stream]

What about echtar? He was on the dreadnought

[ember storm]

hive ghosts rezzing en masse was due to weird fuckery with the throne world’s own reservoir of light (wellspring) and also they had the extra motivation of being held at gunpoint

[woeful stream]

Oh yeah

[ember storm]

an extraction team was either sent to the Dreadnaught to cover the ghost or they brought his body back with them

or Savathun just picked it up ahead of time, not like anyone else was watching the Dreadnaught since taken king

[woeful stream]

Is that why they did a hive ritual on oryx to try to give him a ghost? Cuz it wouldnt work at the bottom of titan

[ember storm]

that was more so the fact he was like 50 feet tall and also his body was still biologically “alive”

they were really just floundering and trying anything though, it wasn’t a specific plot

[woeful stream]

Ahh

Ok

[jagged badge]

I don’t think that’s true

[ember storm]

I mean there’s no real guarantee that mixing Nokris brand necromancy with ghost resurrect would do anything, right?

[jagged badge]

I dunno but bringing Oryx back was apparently a plan of Savathûn’s

[ember storm]

right but this was also before Witch so the lucent hive’s only form of leadership was Immaru, who only relied on old voice recordings to make any kinds of decisions

I don’t think he’d actually understand how it worked and just went “well one of the two has to work”

[jagged badge]

I believe Robert Brookes hinted something once on Ishtar, iirc. He’d asked, “why might Savathûn need a Navigator?”

[woeful stream]

Oryx would probably kill his ghost bc he hates the light and also because with sword logic he'd probably believe he should stay dead or something idk

[shadow crypt]

What happened at the end of the witch queen campaign?

[compact sky]

what exactly stops the light, again? Like what makes ghosts useless

unable to ressurect in like raids and stuff

[woeful stream]

The dark energy is too dense in those areas

The darkness overpowers your ability to rez

[woeful stream]

||We kill savathun and she tells us the Witness is coming||

[hollow crag]

Why does the Witness want the final shape?

[ember storm]

it’s a being born from a cult from the first known civilization to have ever lived under the traveler

they flourished for an untold amount of time, but grew bored of it and when they explored the depths of space, they found the veil

realizing the two were of similar power and could ultimately change the fabric of reality itself, they just came to the conclusion that it was their purpose to enact their idealized vision on the entire universe

[vivid dew]

Sounds like gurren lagann

[lime tiger]

how did oryx take riven if she was locked up?
did he go there in between destroying the reef forces and us killing him?

but at that point, why not just set her free

[smoky rose]

Yes

[smoky rose]

Because she baited him

I'm sure he would have taken her to the dreadnought if she was fully subsumed by his will

But Oryx wished to take Riven, so Riven screwed him over

[lime tiger]

ok

[smoky rose]

Retained some degree of independent thought

Now she's a threat rather than an asset

[chrome fog]

As said before that’s a different timeline, one were not really on track to follow through. It’s vague enough that it’s a possible future but it would be very stupid and exceedingly difficult to write around your player character dying in Final Shape and for some sort of exact successor to follow after them

[chrome fog]

Also bingo, the Witness is basically Anti-Spiral! Like straight up just, the Anti-Spiral basically, except instead of fear eventual self-destruction of evolving species it’s throwing a tantrum because mfer mad there is no inherent meaning to existence, that bro has to make their definition for living

[lime tiger]

since we can talk to riven after we killed her, why cant we with any of the rest? baring the one who wished himself gone gone, and ig the ahemkara armor bone armors

[ember storm]

Mara conjured Riven as a spirit to actually have 1:1 conversations with

[lime tiger]

ah ok

[crystal zinc]

What is the purple pink triangle in the traveler

[ember storm]

no other ahamkara can do that, just faint whispers

[ember storm]

portal

[crystal zinc]

To what

[ember storm]

did you not complete Lightfall

[crystal zinc]

Yeah but I didn’t pay any attention to the story

[ember storm]

this has been the driving force behind like the last year of plot stuff

Witness entered the traveler to use its power to change reality

[crystal zinc]

Oh

[chrome fog]

With as little offense meant as possible, the story of an expansion is fairly important to the developing narrative of the game

[fresh zephyr]

I bet the Last City is so scared right now.

Imagine the end of the world being so imminent, and all you can do is wait and watch

[ember storm]

I mean they’ve been waiting for over a year now

[fresh zephyr]

But like, the Vanguard is entering the Veil too

This is it, the final showdown. Win or lose

[analog torrent]

There's a loretab from two civvy kids during all this gimme a sec

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/hammerhead

Adit cleared her throat, mustering courage, "So, umm, what Cryptarch Matsuo said in class today. About, like, the final shape and everything. The Witness."

"I can't believe what I'm seeing!" Shaxx's voice rang out.

Majjora nodded gravely. Though the visiting Cryptarch had explained the situation in the gentlest terms, the students understood the seriousness of the situation.

"Yeah," Majjora replied. "It's… I don't know what to do."

"Nothing we can do, I guess," Adit replied.

Adit inched her pinky closer to Majjora's for what felt like an eternity. And then finally, they touched.

[fresh zephyr]

That's so scary

The entire universe will change if the Witness is defeated.

[shut mirage]

Hey all, haven't played since the second season of Lightfall (so not terribly long, I think just barely a year now)

How much lore have I missed? (I stopped playing, according to steam, on exactly May 31st, 2023)

I was completely up-to-date on the lore before that

[jagged badge]

You’ve missed some pretty important stuff going into Final Shape and beyond, but I can sum it up for you if you want

[shut mirage]

Please do

[jagged badge]

Did you finish Season of the Deep or do you need an explanation there too?

[shut mirage]

nah I did finish season of the deep, but if you're willing to give me like, a 2 sentence refresher on it

[jagged badge]

[shut mirage]

It has been a year after all

[spark steppe]

is zavala meant to be a strong character

[covert stone]

Zavala is a strong character but he is still very susceptible to weakness such as Haunted and Defiance where he broke down

[jagged badge]

Right, so the key point of Season of the Deep was communicating with Ahsa to discover a way to follow the Witness through the portal it had created in Lightfall. The climactic reveal from Ahsa was that the secret lay in the hands of Savathûn

In the proceeding season, Season of the Witch, we contacted Immaru to organise the resurrection of Savathûn so she could help us. Immaru refused, citing instructions Savathûn had prepared for him predicting these events. Savathûn’s terms were that before she would help, we would have to deal with her sister, Xivu Arath.

In order to do this, Eris Morn underwent a ritual to become a Hive God, so that she could gain tithes from all Guardians in order to try to approach Xivu’s strength. For weeks and weeks our plan was looking like it had a very slim chance of working, and people were worried about Eris becoming corrupted.

At the finale, however, Eris transmatted the body of Savathûn in and demanded Immaru resurrect her. She then slew Savathûn, gaining all of her stored power from before when she had her worm, allowing Eris to become the most powerful Hive in existence. She used this power to cast a spell that banished Xivu Arath from her Throne World, making her mortal. Savathûn had not accounted for this but she was very impressed.

We demanded that Savathûn tell us how to follow the Witness. Savathûn was disappointed that we hadn’t worked it out and said she’d already shown us. Later, we discover that she had a pattern in her wings that revealed a wish she had prepared.

So once again we had to consult with an old foe for help. With the magic of the Techeuns, we contacted the spirit of Riven and asked her to grant us the wish to follow the Witness. Riven refused, and then negotiated that she’d only help us if we helped her secure her remaining clutch of eggs to ensure a future for her children and the Ahamkara as a whole. Week by week we gathered her eggs to uphold our end of the bargain. However, we found out there was one more trick in the Wish. It could only send one person through. We worked out that this would have to be Crow, as his mental connection to Mara would allow us to trace his journey through and open the way for more to follow. So at least we gathered the last egg, and Riven granted the wish and Crow entered the Traveler’s Pale Heart

[shut mirage]

God damn youre right i missed a fuck ton

I was so used to the seasons feeling like filler content for a while there, with BARELY any story progression

I know this isn't exactly lore related, but the main channel is a clusterfuck atm.

When I left things were looking better, but still rough, after Lightfall's release.

How is TFS looking to be? Are we feeling good or?

[jagged badge]

Well, all seasons have been moderately to fairly important to the ongoing narrative but Lightfall as a whole year had a conscious narrative goal to tell a cohesive, year long story through the seasons too

[spark steppe]

K

[jagged badge]

TFS looks super promising

[spark steppe]

and another question i guess? are we just immortal godslayers is that more or less what we are

[shut mirage]

Like? Actually?

I'm literally hovering over the "buy now" for the 99 dollar edition.

(I have thousands of hours in D2 and it used to be my favorite game of all time)

[jagged badge]

I mean, we can be killed. But our Ghost resurrects us. But that can be vulnerable because our Ghost can be killed too

[covert stone]

Immortal so long as we have the Light, any severance of that-through the destruction of our Ghosts or suppresion tech means we return to mortality

[spark steppe]

why not just have the ghost never be near you and res you later on

[jagged badge]

The gameplay and the new subclass looks great and the story looks super intriguing too

[shut mirage]

I know there was a period of time this year when things were looking VERY sketchy (layoffs, leadership changes, etc etc)

Have those all smoothed over?

[jagged badge]

Guardians can separate from their Ghosts physically if they want but usually you wouldn’t want to because you wouldn’t want to stay dead for long

Ideally you’d have a fireteam to cover your rez or something

[spark steppe]

I see and wtf is the traveler meant to be isnt it just a planet

[jagged badge]

It’s a sentient being in a shell

[covert stone]

I'm also going to assume that enemies know you're a guardian and will camp your body to possibly kill your Ghost if it tries to rez you

[jagged badge]

Well, the exterior has been described as a shell before

[jagged badge]

Generally yeah. Ghosts are pretty small and nimble though usually

[spark steppe]

so wtf is the witness is he just the traveler with no shell

[covert stone]

The Witness is an entire race formed into one being

[trim grotto]

It's the result of an entire species using the Veil to amalgamate into one grotesque being

[shut mirage]

Its that why the smoke seems to be multiple entities leaking?

[jagged badge]

Mael!

How’s my Deep-Wish summary?

[trim grotto]

Something like that, yeah!

Eris, could you grab the video? I'm literally at work putting things on a shelf in the dementia ward so I'm a bit busy lmao

[shut mirage]

Is there a video refresher too?

[jagged badge]

The Deep cutscene vid?

[shut mirage]

I have byf's 10 hour video set to lightfall as the refresher i was gonna watch

[jagged badge]

https://youtu.be/Z0CKckjryVI?si=AjCOhqmzqnmOov6o

[trim grotto]

This is a more succinct and direct video from the proto-Worm, Ahsa

[shut mirage]

Im about to pull the trigger, but again, my biggest concern is the internal issues Bungie was having a bit ago. Something to do with layoffs, leadership changes, etc etc.

Were those all smoothed over?

[jagged badge]

Well…the layoffs fucking sucked, and it’s not like they were undone. But that is more widespread issues with the whole industry it seems, so hard to tackle. The team working on Final Shape or passionate and driven though and worked hard to deliver what should hopefully be an amazing expansion

I personally don’t see a reason to not support the expansion/game due to that whole situation, but I understand your concern

[shut mirage]

So all signs point to it being a good expansion? I know before Lightfall we had some concerns with it (Particularly the writing)

[jagged badge]

You can watch the launch trailer if you want to get a glimpse of the premise of the story

[shut mirage]

That, and how damn short the Lightfall campaign was

It was SOOO short, unless for some reason im completely misremembering it

[jagged badge]

And there’s plenty of stuff about the gameplay that could inform your opinion too

The new subclass for example looks super interesting and cool

[shut mirage]

So essentially, we know what the final shape is, right?

Its the "the meaning of the universe", or the meaning of existence, and the Witness wants to know what it is?

[jagged badge]

The Final Shape the Witness is trying to achieve is the universe in a perfect stillness. No more life. No more death. No more suffering

The launch trailer also gives a look at how the Witness imagines the Final Shape

[shut mirage]

And honestly my biggest concern was them doing the layoffs and leadership changes while working on TFS, their new game (The looter extraction, name is lost on me atm), as well as whatever is next for Destiny, and spreading themselves too thin

[jagged badge]

I can link it here too if you wish

[jagged badge]

Well, the leadership changed from Joe Blackburn to Tyson Green. I don’t know if you know that name but Tyson has been a Bungie vet since Halo or even before iirc

[shut mirage]

And like.. what the fuck IS next for Destiny?

Last I heard they werent planning on doing a Destiny 3

[burnt edge]

Episodes

[shut mirage]

So it'll all be stacked on top of Destiny 2?

[burnt edge]

yep

[jagged badge]

Episodes first to deal with certain threads and the fallout of Final Shape, and then we don’t know what exactly the future holds

[ember storm]

episodes are taking the place of seasons

[burnt edge]

^

[shut mirage]

Wait what did i say that triggered automod lol

[jagged badge]

Other than that Destiny 2 is planned to continue for at least a few years beyond

[ember storm]

for what it’s worth, I don’t think bungie would take the time to plan out such a drastic change just to drop support

[little sail]

I just pulled the trigger. Its a risk im willing to take. I havent felt this much anticipation since foresaken or ttk

[analog torrent]

the nine
the vex
aphelions
how Shin fucking Malphur wields the light without a ghost
who knows

[jagged badge]

Too many dots I think. Too many of one character makes the autmod mad haha

[ember storm]

if they were really “jumping ship” like a lot of naysayers suggest, they wouldn’t be doing it

[burnt edge]

So many plot holes

[shut mirage]

Ah gotchya.

And they're still sunsetting shit after its done right?

[ember storm]

#📚lore-discussion message

[burnt edge]

that should’ve been finished years ago

[ember storm]

that’s not what plot hole means

[jagged badge]

That’s not what plot hole means

FUCK lmaooo

[ember storm]

beetle

[burnt edge]

should’ve still been finished either way years ago

[analog torrent]

I read the mael writeup on the lore subreddit
Dude is just weird

[jagged badge]

[shut mirage]

This is confirmed?

[jagged badge]

Yeah

[shut mirage]

Im gonna watch Byf's video that starts with Lightfall and ends with current events then i'll be back to get any clarification on things

[jagged badge]

Chris Proctor reiterated it recently in an interview about sandbox balancing and how they can’t let Final Shape power creep too much since the game will be continuing for a few years at least

[shut mirage]

Yeah honestly im willing to pull the trigger too. Even when Destiny 2 was at its worst, it was still an amazing game for its genre

[covert stone]

Its the only game for its genre

[shut mirage]

I think thats... well fair enough really. Hard to argue that

[little sail]

yeah true lmao

[covert stone]

Borderlands is the closest series but it isn't an MMO

[shut mirage]

Looks like GMG has it plus season pass for 16% off, easy day

Wait, did they ever add actual looking for group? That still wasnt in when i stopped playing a year ago

[eager trout]

What if the Vex's simulation of the future turns out to be wrong because The Guardian will survive through paracasual means, which the Vex can't simulate?

[chrome fog]

Ooooo you’d be so mad at one word

[little sail]

truing

[burnt edge]

Wdym

[chrome fog]

It’s been fairly consistent that Destiny has revisiting concepts it has introduced and then elaborating in them, albeit later down the line. We had a couple times to get to know and then rebuild Rasputin, we’ve become close to the exiled Warlock Vanguard Osiris, became friends and even saved Saint-14, the one Captain you could spare in that one strike turned out to be Misraaks and he’s now our ally

Admittedly some stuff has been neglected, but like still, plot holes have had pegs put in them fairly consistent

[analog torrent]

Aphelion(s) have been a mystery since, what, Forsaken?

And not sure if the Bamberga/A-113 stuff was ever wrapped up

[ember storm]

the stuff in Dawn was never simulated at all

[eager trout]

Then what was it-?

[ember storm]

the future

a distant future that might never come to pass, but still a future

not fake in any capacity, perfectly possible

[eager trout]

But alterable through paracasual means (because that's basically what paracasuality does)

[ember storm]

again, the point isn’t that it was guaranteed to happen and that we’d need to stop it

it was literally just a glimpse at an infinite number of possible futures from where we were at that point in time

[next bobcat]

Damn there’s slow mode here now?

[trim grotto]

Aye, happened when the Sony leak happened

[next bobcat]

Ah

[raw hazel]

And especially moreso now with more leaks out there

Fucking dataminers

[eager trout]

Cayde-6 is appearing in The Final Shape, trust me, it was leaked

[dim minnow]

Wonder how many people are gonna post their "theories" here before DLC drop (they read leaks and wanted to make people think they were smart for calling it beforehand)

[versed orbit]

It probably already happened

[half bay]

is there any particular reason why the traveler is seemingly more sentient/proactive than the veil? The traveler is moving around and doing stuff of its own accord but from what I know the veil just gets moved by others and is used more like an item

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Veil is still relatively mysterious

[half bay]

I hope it gets up and walks around on its tentacles in tfs, becomes the vendor for the next season

[jagged badge]

Unveiling may be called into question but it could actually suggest an answer that could be relevant here imo. In Unveiling the Gardener actively wanted to change the rules. It had an agenda, and obviously the Traveler demonstrably has one too

Whereas the Winnower just wanted to let the game play out it as it should. Perhaps that’s the same for the Veil

[blazing wasp]

Well the veil isnt going around directly assisting in the well beings of civilisations across the universe, it doesnt really interact with anyone
so maybe its not sentient at all, maybe its as sentient as the traveler

[jagged badge]

Or I’m just bullshitting here haha

[empty fern]

(Quick, Saint lore relayed to pvp, GO)

[jagged badge]

Who knows

[half bay]

I guess it's more satisfied just sitting around scheming and influencing whereas the light is a bit more concerned about the physical universe

idk if it's scheming it seems to low key just be sitting around

[chrome fog]

Access to the Pale Heart may see us exploring it deeper and may find information pertaining to the Veil

[chrome fog]

If it is at all planning something, which IT might not be

[half bay]

wait where is the veil right now lol I've lost track

[woeful stream]

I hope we learn more of the nine

[blazing wasp]

neptune

[half bay]

oh still there ok nvm

[chrome fog]

Still in containment

[half bay]

I forgot that the witness just used it from there rather than stealing the whole thing lol

[empty fern]

Wonder how linear the final shape will be (since devs said it’s a linear destination a few streams ago)

[trim grotto]

So Linear that Veist will want to patent it

[empty fern]

Hmmmmm

It’s a corruption so that fits with the poison theme too

[raw hazel]

Less than a day til new lore….

[woeful stream]

RAAA YES

[raw hazel]

new lore….

SO MUCH NEW LORRRRRE

[empty fern]

Nuh uh

[raw hazel]

Banned

[analog torrent]

Hey guys rate my in-progress lorebook tierlist

PEAK FICTION The Liar Ghost Stories Last Days on Kraken Mare

Must-reads Books of Sorrow Marasenna The Man They Call Cayde The Awoken of the Reef Beneath the Endless Night Achilles Weaves a Cocoon Dawning Delights The Chronicon

Highly recommended Acts of Mercy A Man with No Name The Forsaken Prince Shattered Suns Truth to Power

Recommended Unveiling The Pigeon and the Phoenix Persona Stolen Intelligence Letters from A Renegade The Black Armory papers Ecdysis Dust The Warlock Aunor Nothing Ends Confessions Aspect

Worth a read The Lawless Frontier Eva's Journey The Dreaming City Trials and Tribulations Most Loyal Pathfinding A Drifter's Gambit The Book of Unmaking For Every Rose, A Thorn

**Mid ** The Maraid Wall of Wishes

[hollow crag]

Why did it have to be Crow to enter the Traveler?

[analog torrent]

He has a unique connection with Mara that would let us track him while he was in there

[kindred fractal]

Don't quote me on this, but Crow and Mara have a connection cause they're siblings and I think they figured out some way to get in through that

What were the so called "cosmic events" the traveler set in motion?

Shouldnt we be scared that these cosmic events that could wipe out civilizations could possibly happen to us?

[woeful stream]

Cuz mara and crow share a special connection and can sense eachother, if it was someone else and we gave them coms, it would probably not work when they go into the traveler and we would not be able to communicate

[ember storm]

they can sense each other and basically feel for their presences

[kindred fractal]

possible future expansion?

or episode?

[gentle geyser]

When was this

[ember storm]

everything the traveler has ever done has set up cosmic events, we are experiencing one right now

I don’t think there’s any deeper meaning to the phrase

[gentle geyser]

Honestly just sounds like sci fi nonsense to say that this is important

[kindred fractal]

Ahsa's cutscene on the veil

[gentle geyser]

I wouldn’t put too much thought into it

[ember storm]

Could you post the exact quote

[kindred fractal]

"They came to realize it could bring ruin just as easily. The cosmic events it (The Traveler) set in motion could wipe out entire civilizations in a heartbeat, without reason. And so they (The Precursors) saw the Light not as a source of prosperity, but of unfettered chaos."

[ember storm]

that’s just general actions

the traveler being active at all is what the witness considers to be chaos

[kindred fractal]

ehhhhhh

MAYBE

[gentle geyser]

Thats not a maybe

[kindred fractal]

Well yeah I meant the general actions part

Bringing Ruin to a civilization isnt js a general action

[ember storm]

what the witness considers to be ruin is life itself

to the witness, civilizations starting, growing, and ending is all unjust suffering

it wants to end it all at the source via the removal of life itself, into a final shape

no more chaos, everything will be perfect and orderly

[gentle geyser]

We all lose if the witness wins

[dim minnow]

Nothing Ends should be higher, it goes hard

also when you get to Tales of the Forgotten, Volume 1 has to be rated above Volume 2 and Volume 2 has to be rated above Volume 3

makes me worried for what the 4th one will be since Tales of the Forgotten get progressively worse each year

[chrome fog]

That was the Traveler blessing the Precursor species, and them realizing the destructive capability of Light. Instead of just saying "Hey why dont we be responsible with this power we were entrusted with?" the higher-ups of their species decided that they would rather have an existential crisis about this power as well as the meaning of existence.

These crybabies, instead of just accepting that they were going to have to be responsible for their own actions, decided to piss themselves over the Traveler's silence and decide to stasis all existence because "life is pain" and all that edgy shit

And from Entelechy we know it was only a select few from higher up within their society who made the greater decision to perform the ritual to form the Witness

[autumn fossil]

Hive scorn love darkness, worship witness. Pyramid fleet enter earth stop guardian, witness commune traveller drink light. Witness kill (blank)

[gentle geyser]

This isn’t lore

[chrome fog]

Probably should move this somewhere else

[trim grotto]

This is the prophesy wall of the Pyramid. What's the problem?

[analog torrent]

Who is Shaxx talking to in Falling Guillotine? The Warlock https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/falling-guillotine

[autumn fossil]

I wasnt sure if this was a good spot for it sorry

[trim grotto]

If you want to discuss it, this is perfectly fine. Curious about the final symbol?

[autumn fossil]

Yeah I'm curious what it is. I feel like it's probably grief or possibly zavala

[trim grotto]

I don't think it's anyone specific. Maybe Osiris?

[autumn fossil]

But otherwise no idea. I just also enjoy how accurate the wall really is. Drinking light is very on point

I don't know if he'll be in final shape

Kinda hope the bray sisters make an appearance

[trim grotto]

Maybe the fact that it's blank is the point. Witness renders the universe null and void. Still. Final. Blank.

[analog torrent]

Are Shaxx and Osiris friends? At first, figured it was Drifter being mistaken for a Warlock but he doesn't talk like that, Osiris chumming it up with Shaxx in some random bar feels strange
Ikora, maybe?

[kindred fractal]

LMAOOOO that makes a lot of sense

[autumn fossil]

I don't think osiris has friends🤣, jk jk but yeah I think so

[trim grotto]

They're both Dark Age Guardians. Osiris and Shaxx might not be close friends that I'm aware of, but they are aware of one another.
https://youtu.be/MkQQ5Rh2Njk?si=MAcJxWRK4KGSa8Q8
There is this, of course.

[analog torrent]

Is that the one where him, Saint, and Osiris chat like old pals lol

It is 🎉

[trim grotto]

Ye
Also Osiris was Vanguard for a while of course, so he technically was in charge of Shaxx at the time

Not that Shaxx would see it that way

[analog torrent]

Are Efrideet and Shin just watching this all go down like “damn that’s crazy”

When was the last time either of them got new lore anyway

[dim minnow]

Shin's story seemed to have ended back in Opulence with the Nothing Ends lore book

Erfrideet I believe was last mentioned in a Splicer weapon

but it was mainly in the flavor text for the gun

[trim grotto]

Ironically the last time we got an entry for Efrideet was a prequel, speaking to The Speaker before she left
Actual entry, not offhand mention

She hasn't actually been seen since the Red War when she returned to fight

Killed 216 Cabal in 199 bullets

[dim minnow]

she lived long enough to see the Traveler break free

so she could still be around

[autumn fossil]

"I'm on the mooooooon, it's made of cheeeeeeese"

[analog torrent]

In tfs Saladin and Efrideet go into the Pale Heart and see their old comrades (real)

[gentle geyser]

Siva reference?

[versed orbit]

This shit being savathun’s song was pretty funny

[analog torrent]

Savathun is funny
“With this tribute, I shall undertake a mighty work. A real humdinger of a scheme.”

[versed orbit]

That poor thrall tryna figure out what the fuck a humdinger is

[shadow crypt]

Do the vanguard leaders have like sidekicks

Or protégés whatever you want to call them

[analog torrent]

Ikora was Osiris’s protege who was Felwinter’s protege
Zavala was Saladin’s though
Tallulah and Caliban were friends
Andal Brask and Cayde were friends

Not sure if them hunters had a mentor thing going on

[lost abyss]

Cayde might take on a mentorship role for Crow, teach him a trick or two. He did get the upper hand easily during their shoot out.

[dim minnow]

Crow had a chance to shoot him after dodging the tripmine, but he got distracted by the fact it was Cayde running towards him

[lost abyss]

Oh, right. He did have a deer in the headlights moment

[frozen bough]

Yo have yall seen this??

[chrome fog]

Crazy almost like it’s being updated for the expansion

[lost abyss]

Yeah, there's usually a message for a new expac

They're always pretty neat

[chrome fog]

We get too many people being genuine about this stuff for it to be funny

[versed orbit]

They’re adding new lore

[frozen bough]

Ik tht I mean what it says

[chrome fog]

Oh wait shit

Nvm my b

[frozen bough]

I think it's pretty cool for the lore

[lost abyss]

I think the Witness has been the author of like, two of those, so far

[frozen bough]

Fr?

[lost abyss]

Beyond Light had a similar one iirc

[frozen bough]

Oh now you say tht it makes sense ngl tbh tomorrow can't come sooner

[zinc knoll]

Why are the vex always messing with some paracausal crap

[dim minnow]

because it is the one thing they can't simulate

it is their main weakness, and their potential way to win

[zinc knoll]

Alr tu

Ty

[empty fern]

Like me and any form of currency on the ground (I am unemployed)

[shadow crypt]

Whats the deal with Felwinter and Rasputin

[lime tiger]

so, if the fallen followed the traveler after the whirlwind, then why did the golden age people not encounter them? or did they? i dont really remember any mention of it.
if they were far enough back, as to not be seen until the dark age, then how did they even know to come to sol for the traveler

[dim minnow]

during the Golden Age, Rasputin partitioned a piece of his mind to create an Exo avatar to study humanity

[dim minnow]

1. they didn't arrive in Sol until right after the Collapse
2. I'd wager they had some way of tracking it

[lime tiger]

ok

[dim minnow]

so this avatar was called the Siddhartha Golem and was pretty much Rasputin's son

and this exo would be killed during the Collapse and would be rezzed during the Dark Age

he would adopt the name "Felwinter' right after and ever since he was raised, Rasputin would send Warsats and frames to try and kill him

you see, Rasputin was not very happy with the Traveler ressurecting his own son, it made him jealous

so Felwinter would make sure Rasputin couldn't get him until one day the Warmind decided to make a trap

Rasputin knew that Felwinter wanted to help humanity, so he lead Felwinter to discovering the existence of SIVA, a Golden Age nanotechnology that could be used to help build the Last City

so Felwinter and the other Iron Lords would go to Site 6 where Rasputin would unleash SIVA upon them like a plague

in the end, Felwinter was killed along with most of the Iron Lords leaving Saladin the sole survivor of the conflict (Efrideet survived too, but I don't think she was there)

[empty fern]

You’re telling me the entirety of rise of iron was due to Felwinter? Man he’s been a magnet for trouble

[chrome fog]

Rise of Iron was solely cleaning up the breach of the SIVA Replication Chamber

[dim minnow]

well, Rise of Iron started with the House of Devils finding SIVA

[empty fern]

First the fallen saber, now a whole chamber

Or maybe fallen saber was in a chamber as well

[dim minnow]

SIVA was held somewhere else in the Cosmodrome

surprised how little Rise of Iron areas we got in D2

[dull raft]

big red didn't want to fight a battle for custody

[dim minnow]

only one was RoI Cosmodrome

[iron mortar]

Is it canon that the first guardian was a titan

[empty fern]

We got like 2/3d of normal area to mix with RoI,

[compact sky]

How did Sagira die again? Was there a cutscene?

[empty fern]

Guardian? Probably yea, atleast if it’s Zavala (and not some light bearer

[empty fern]

Implied, xivu cornered her and she died, off screen (between wq and hunt)?

[compact sky]

I wasnt there for Season of the Hunted but I did see Sagira get shot by a vex and seemingly die, but there's other sources from google that claim she sacrificed herself

[iron mortar]

No cutscene, got off-screened

[compact sky]

was it season of the hunted?

[iron mortar]

That was curse of osiris, and she didn't die then

[compact sky]

curse of the Osiris intro

[iron mortar]

Yep

[compact sky]

she survived? How?

[empty fern]

Gameplay magic

Actually wait, she didn’t survive