📚lore-discussion

[empty fern]

Oh there it is

[trim grotto]

Oh yeah, I remember that

Totally forgot that was there

[red comet]

Real shit

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-the-witch-queen-witness-look-gif-26602142

Not in here tho

[jagged badge]

It didn’t exist then

[empty fern]

It was in the calus cube bath clearly

[analog torrent]

Is there any other Felwinter lore that’s not on Ishtar? Tyra Karn’s idle suspicions of him aren’t on there.

[fast tapir]

god damn how fast was that thing built?

[jagged badge]

Between the end of Haunted and the end of Seraph at least

[fast tapir]

thats insane

[jagged badge]

I’ve literally never considered it

I don’t think it means much considering the scope of the Witness’ power. We already know the Pyramid ships are incredibly advanced but more crucially here, incredibly fluid

The Typhon could very well just be a Pyramid ship that’s reshaped itself

[fast tapir]

not gonna lie

that makes it even more cool if it is true

[empty fern]

The navigator is oryx right? That xivu is talking to in deep

[eager trout]

Who?

[empty fern]

Shinobu, a guardian and one of the 6 coyotes (group)
She’s got I think 3 exotics named after

[eager trout]

Which ones?

[empty fern]

Shinobus vow
(I forgot the rest)

That and sixth coyote

[analog torrent]

The four Felwinter theories I found on Reddit before the reveal
1: he’s Clovis bray
2: he’s a seraph
3: his exo self was famous in the golden age
4: he’s a Rasputin clone (big if true)

[eager trout]

What reveal?

[jagged badge]

I assume the reveal that he was an AI created by Rasputin

[eager trout]

Oh

What equipment do splicers have?

[little gorge]

the typhon imperator is 5 pyramids in a trench coat

[empty fern]

Splicer equipment

[eager trout]

Such as...?

[empty fern]

Stuff splicer use

[trim grotto]

Primarily, the Splicer Gauntlet.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/legacy-splicer-gauntlet
The key factor here is that a skilled wielder is able to draw upon the innate Light of the surroundings to hack into devices, including Vex and the Vex network - a core componant of the Season of the Splicer itself. Unfortunately, the Vex have since patched this particular functionality.

[unreal bison]

when it comes to the hive are they influanced and contorlled by the witness? Like Crota, Nocrus or Oryx etc? Do they have free will to fuel the swordlogic

[empty fern]

Free will to fuel sword logic

[jagged badge]

They’re not controlled. It’s just their culture

[unreal bison]

So the witness arnt there puppet masters so to speak?

[jagged badge]

It orchestrated the events that led to the Krill becoming the Hive but it doesn’t need to mind control them to keep them killing

The Hive genuinely believe in it, culturally, religiously. That they’re right, and that if you die you didn’t even deserve to live at all

[unreal bison]

so its not like calus how he kinda worships the witness. The Witness was the cause of the hive and the effect was the hive.... and the influence they spread.

[trim grotto]

that's about right, yeah!

[plain topaz]

In vow of the disciple whats the point of the encounters before the final boss

[ember storm]

the point?

[plain topaz]

Yeah like why’d we do it

[ember storm]

we’re investigating the pyramid and there’s only one way forward

why would we not do it

[plain topaz]

Ok

[eternal lantern]

Time consuming

Just take the boss and investigate later, the pyramyd wont fly away

[trim grotto]

We didn't have any other way of getting to the boss.

Besides: First encounter is opening the way
Second is opening the way through a boss
Third is opening the way
Fourth is the boss

Furthermore, the Caretaker was, as it turns out, the first (and only) successful Scorn/Hive Worm infusion, which was potentially a very dangerous combination if left unchecked.

[unreal bison]

Scorn/Hive Worm. I don't get it?

[trim grotto]

Do you know what Hive Parasite Worms do for their Hive hosts?

[remote sky]

Once again requesting knowledge on this topic

[trim grotto]

We don't actually know in detail. Some of it is simply studying the Traveler. Artifacts have appeared to be studied. Info might come through the Speakers.

[eternal lantern]

Why dont they just nuke it? Like rasputin warsat still there even tho rasputin is dead

[exotic cloak]

All of this of big ball just getting there and everyone actually becoming smarter is

Curious

[trim grotto]

The Pyramid in the Throne World? In the other dimension of the Ascendant Plane?

[eternal lantern]

Transportation?

Like, just bring it it?

[exotic cloak]

Wait but, we actually explored that pyramid

There's a mission in the post-campaign, Mara sends you there to stop the scorn and then you hear all those logs from Rhulk

[trim grotto]

Firstly: We don't have nukes.
Secondly: Rasputin was never actually able to destroy any Pyramids with his full arsenal during the Golden Age.
Thirdly: We'd die to the radiation and, should Rhulk have survived, he'd activate the Upended and destroy the Throne World, ending our chance at scouring it for Savathûn's secrets.

[eternal lantern]

So the warsat can cook the traveler but it cannot damage the pyramid?

[trim grotto]

We don't know how badly the Warsats would have affected the Traveler.
The Pyramids also had ways of stopping projectiles from even hitting them, as shown when Asher Mir tried to launch projectiles at one on Io, and it never even actually hit the shell.

Plus, the Traveler isn't a combatant. It's a terraformer. The Pyramids have been destroying worlds for untold time. Their physical resistances may be as different as their purposes.

Also, we couldn't access Rasputin's network at the time.

[ember storm]

the main issue in Seraph was an entire legion of warsats being aimed at the traveler, which was in the heart of the city

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-season-of-the-seraph-exo-rasputin-ai-gif-27560477

[ember storm]

assuming the traveler has similar properties to ghosts, they’re more resistant than any regular object would be of their caliber, but not invincible

[pallid thunder]

It's kinda useless tho since the pyramids seem to work like the Witness and shooting him is probably as worthless as shooting the Beyonder with a gun.

[ember storm]

we were arming the warsats to clear off the witness’ armies that are susceptible to standard attacks but too widespread to effectively hunt down

we just ultimately got played though as Xivu Arath had a ritual in place to where any major loss to her army would go straight to empowering her as well

[pallid thunder]

Speaking of how is the hive even a threat right now with what three of their gods in the dirt? Savathuun (not really dead) oryx and crota, xivu arath carrying the hive hard.

[ember storm]

god is a very loose term

it’s just one of the main people at the top end of their command structure, and the thing is that removing leadership doesn’t just leave them dead in the water, it leads to power vacuums

Xivu has effectively rallied every single hive in the system that isn’t directly a part of Savathun’s brood, which is very much not a good thing

the remains of the Dreadnaught, all the hive on the moon and earth, plus those in the dreaming city, not to mention all her wrathborn or the taken she’s gotten from the witness

[pallid thunder]

When you put it that way Warhammer seems less grim lmao

[trim grotto]

The Hive constantly vie for power and leadership even when the siblings were all at their peak. The power vacuum of a missing leader may cause some short term internal strife, but another will always take their place, and the Hive are required to seek more slaughter, or their Worms will consume them alive.

[ember storm]

her loss of her throne world is a good trump card, but it just means she’s going to be the most strategically careful that she’s ever been

a cornered beast can be more dangerous than a prowling one

[pallid thunder]

@trim grotto @ember storm so I had an argument with a brother over the witness as far as scaling went, is he a cosmic being or just a really really powerful mortal? Like would he be avengers level or molecule man level?

[ember storm]

it’s the opposite of a mortal

[trim grotto]

I don't know what half of that means.

[ember storm]

it’s the collective minds of an entire civilization that went through mass suicide condensed into one entity

[pallid thunder]

My bad, is the witness universal or not, is what I'm asking

[ember storm]

not universal, but that’s what its plan are culminating in

it wants total control over existence itself

[empty fern]

And it’s really close to doing that

[pallid thunder]

Ok so he is avenger level and I was wrong 😔

[ember storm]

so theoretically its not really special in that regard, anyone with the same idea could do it

[trim grotto]

Still not entirely sure what you mean by this.

[ember storm]

avengers have nothing on it honestly

[pallid thunder]

You would be surprised how powerful the avengers are man.

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-lightfall-titan-ghost-light-gif-27606637

[empty fern]

(Is it thanos level, or is it the uhhh, owner of the stones before thanos level)

[ember storm]

what do the avengers do here exactly

[empty fern]

Plot armor duh

[ember storm]

what’s hulk going to do, clap really hard in the vacuum of space

[pallid thunder]

Tony Stark could probably come up with something to counter him although I don't know exactly witnesses scaling which is why I was asking, I assumed he would be like galactus and just roll everything but plot armor yeah

[jagged badge]

It btw, not him

[ember storm]

there’s nothing to counter him that the avengers could do

[pallid thunder]

My b forgot it is a legion

[dim minnow]

I mean, how exactly can they counter the Witness' power of reshaping

[ember storm]

also for the record I just want to say powerscaling is lame and uncool and basically ruins any semblance of multifandom discussion

nobody’s going to have a good time when it just comes down to “well uh in episode 579 Johnny anime did the roundabout sniper shot maneuver so he could definitely kill mister deathknight”

[pallid thunder]

Oh... Sorry then, I just like fictional characters and I like comparing them with feats I didn't mean to sound rude or start anything.

[ember storm]

its not on you I just don’t like it when people get seriously into it

tldr, witness is a very big bad doing very big bad things and definitely wouldn’t take one blockbuster movie to defeat

[pallid thunder]

Those people can be ignored I just like discussing lore and feats of different characters.

[little gorge]

i love when writers come up with a character whose powers feel like a genuine existential threat and the only thing people think is "can he beat goku based on completely arbitrary rankings neither of the original creators even knew existed"

[eternal lantern]

Just give it to clovis

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

I’d rather have the alien warlord take them

[little gorge]

ngl we should put clovis back in the exo frame and take him to the pale heart for dramatic effect

[ember storm]

the exo frame is just a human shape speaking apparatus

[little gorge]

honestly clovis would fight the witness solely because the final shape means his legacy is gone

[ember storm]

the actual computer housing a fragment of Clovis or Rasputin was the entire room filled with server blocks

[little gorge]

i know I'm just being silly

[ember storm]

Ok but now I’m imagining it like those new vegas randomizers where it spawns Mr house in his longevity apparatus out in the middle of the desert

[little gorge]

imagine the memory of Clovis Bray I (the human) himself is in the pale heart

[ember storm]

how so

[weak prawn]

What ever happened to siva?

[dim minnow]

gome foremver

[empty fern]

Discontinued after someone’s bombed the factory and assassinated the project manager

[outer dragon]

It had a temper tantrum and is in time out

Also why slowmode

[dim minnow]

upcoming DLC release

though I believe Sony's screw-up pushed the mods into doing slowmode early

[pallid thunder]

One thing that always got under my skin was the Dredgen yor story, they never finished it right? I want to fight him and shayurra 1v1 also who is the hunter chasing us because we use the darkness? Wheres that 1v1?

[dim minnow]

ok, you got a lot wrong there

1. Dredgen Yor is dead and his Ghost, Vincent, knows full well not to rez him

2. Shayura turned herself in after having a mental breakdown in a public park after seeing Hive Lightbearers and was put under the care of her fireteam who chose to accept her back in. She's pretty much reformed now

[jagged badge]

Dredgen Yor… and his Ghost, Vincent

I just can’t take that seriously lmao

[raw hazel]

Also if you’re thinking of Shin- He’s effectively retired now.

[dim minnow]

3. Shin Malphur actually secretly wants Guardians to wield both Light and Dark so he had this elaborate plot to get rid of the overly edgy Guardians who would be corrupted by Darkness

and he retired too as Hally said, because his work was done

[pallid thunder]

What about lumina and Thorne?did they ever finish that too? I only started playing in season 13 and my lore knowledge comes from my brother who claims to have been a D1 beta tester/Xbox one original main.

[dim minnow]

ok, the original Thorn was given to us by Shin Malphur towards the end of his behind the scenes story arc

we purified it and reverted it back into Rose, which was what Thorn used to be

then we transformed Rose into Lumina

[pallid thunder]

Three cool stories done then. I think it should have been us to kill Dredgen and us to sit shayurra down after she started trying to kill ghosts in the crucible

[dim minnow]

Dredgen Yor was the one killing Guardians in the Crucible

[jagged badge]

Why?

[dim minnow]

Shayura was going around Sol hunting down Guardians using Stasis (and even some House of Light Eliksni)

[chrome fog]

Why us, Shin is the one with actual history with Yor. And we’ve never met Shayura neither, it makes more sense for her fireteam to come and pull her back from the pit she was in.

[dim minnow]

Dredgen Yor was known to be killed off long ago

like in the first year of D1

[jagged badge]

Centuries before we were resurrected no?

[dim minnow]

maybe

had to be City Age since it was after Shaxx rebranded the Crucible post Twilight Gap

[pallid thunder]

So we don't get to fight either of these cool characters and I have to fight Casper of his meds chasing the final shape..... I'm salty

[chrome fog]

Entirety of Shin’s story was City Age, wasn’t it?

[dim minnow]

likely

there are still many settlements outside of the city

[chrome fog]

Lil homie oughta read up on their material
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CKckjryVI

[dim minnow]

it would be pretty difficult to implement us fighting other Guardians like that

besides, these stories are meant to be supplemental

[pallid thunder]

What about efredeet? Is she actually a pacifist?

[dim minnow]

apparently

we haven't heard from her in a long time though

most we got was that she stacked hella cabals to the walls during the Red War

[pallid thunder]

Oh ok one truth out of 3, that's the last time I trust lore from a family member

@dim minnow my brother got me into destiny during the season of the splicer and I was playing beyond light with him as he told me about Dredgen yor and shayurra (I got them mixed up) and I genuinely thought it was cool for us to have to kill a errant guardian and he was hunting the streets for us, that was cool then you tell me years later "plots done bro they got therapy/been dead". That just sucks to me man those are cool stories I think are actually cooler than some Eliksni kell snorting stasis rocks on Europa.

[eager trout]

How long do Eliksni live, and at what age are they considered young adults?

[dim minnow]

second one I don't think is really known
first isn't fully defined either, but we know it can be for at least a few centuries

[jagged badge]

Mithrax is considered young right?

[dim minnow]

yes

and I believe he was from the Dark Age

[pallid thunder]

One thing I've been thinking about while running onslaught was Saladin and his loyalty as a whole, crow's goofy oopsie forced him to join the cabal so if it did come to war with caitl will we have to fight a genuine iron lord?

[dim minnow]

probably, but even then, there's no guarantee that Saladin won't just turn his back on the Cabal

at this point, war with our Cabal allies isn't really going to happen anyways

[pallid thunder]

For now, after final shape if the universe isn't blinked caitl definitely has ambition, I wouldn't put it past her to become Gary the second

[dim minnow]

no, she won't

she never even wanted conflict with Guardians in the first place, but she knew that her people wouldn't allow an outright alliance with us unless we pulled something like a Rite of Proving

and she's smart enough to not make the same screwups Ghaul made

[pallid thunder]

Those are good points, she is a shrewd clever leader as we have seen her.

I love the idea of having to fight ancient beings in destiny and there are no shortages of them, like savathuun was cool because you are fighting a being who was around AT the start and was directly involved in the beginning of the darkness and light war, her dlc was awesome.

[dim minnow]

the Hive are billions of years old after all

and Rhulk was older than them (by how much we aren't certain)

and the Witness is even older than Rhulk

[pallid thunder]

I wasn't here for oryx but I'm told his dlc was the pinnacle of destiny

[dim minnow]

hot take: Taken King was the Beyond Light of D1

[pallid thunder]

the hive lore is cool too but they keep xivu arath at the chest too much, i wanna lose a direct 1v1 to a hive God not with meticulous planning but brute strength and power like that's cool, I kinda associate the hive and vex as old evils like our guardian going to R'lyeh and 1v1 a primordial being that's just cool to me I dunno.

[dim minnow]

the themes and story of the game do not work with that

we can have our 1v1 with a god, but only after we've taken addvantage of their weaknesses and had them weakened enough

in the case of Oryx

[raw hazel]

If we fought Oryx at his prime he would have flattened us.

Guardians are as successful as they are because they work with others and the like to find and exploit weaknesses in their enemies.

/making plans to get the odds on our side.

[dim minnow]

also, our paracausality bends the flow of events to our favor

as the IX put it: "our will forces an ontological effect"

[pallid thunder]

But then there are guardians like Ikora who can flatten mountains casually and ana bray who generated a golden gun so vibrant it still has remants left hundreds of years later. Also the 9, cool outer beings that act beyond our understanding and they never actually show up to fight except the one who misbehaved and was punished.

[dim minnow]

Nine aren't really physical entities

they're sentient clouds of stardust tied to the gravitational pull of Sol's celestial bodies

[pallid thunder]

I wish I could have played trials of the 9... That whole lore is awesome and we don't interact with it or them in-game outside of the 30th bundle

[dim minnow]

and I don't really know where it is mentioned that Ikora can flatten mountains casually

if you are referring to Chronicon, don't trust it, it is in-universe fanfiction

[pallid thunder]

Oh ok... Still she is very very powerful

[dim minnow]

yes, she is warlock vanguard for a reason

but the closest we got to mountain level stuff was Wei Ning punching a mountain so hard it shuddered microscopically

still impressive though

[hearty dagger]

What is the Oil stuff that blasts out of the Cabal's suits when we shoot their helmets off?

[pallid thunder]

It just feels stagnant to me, I remember downloading and playing the new light experience and I was at first annoyed because shaw hawn is a complete goober then I got to the tower and met so many well written cool characters like for example drifter, genius from the dark age and casually comments human meat is stringy lmao, is he going to get his own dlc soon or what? Not a cameo like beyond light but a genuine story for him and his wheels and deals

[dim minnow]

I think it makes it so the pressure difference of the atmosphere doesn't kill them

according to a grimoire card, the oil is meant to keep them alive

[remote sky]

Mmmmm lore... Tell me more lore... gah. ABOUT THE EXOS!

And how much of an asshole Clovis is

[dim minnow]

Braylab records: Confidential

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-bray-lab-records-confidential

[exotic cloak]

Why salvation gang and mithraks were on zero hour

[empty fern]

Old missions

(Not sure too much)

[dim minnow]

Canonically, Zero Hour mission in ItL is a simulation

However, the original story for the mission was Mithrax enlisting our help in preventing Eramis' syndicate (she had not formed House Salvation yet) from stealing Outbreak Perfected so she can weaponize SIVA like the Devil Splicers did in an attempt to restore the House of Devils

And in the original mission, there wasn't House Salvation enemies there

Since as I stated, the House wasn't founded yet at that point

[shadow crypt]

Are the raids from d1 in d2 simulations as well? Or is it just a gameplay thing

[dim minnow]

House of Light also was only in its starting stages and wasn't invited to the Last City at that point

[dim minnow]

D1 raids in D2 have no lore to them

They're just there for gameplay

[shadow crypt]

Cool

[fallow sky]

Do you guys think we will have a bigger role character wise in the final shape? i mean like having a personality

[ember storm]

probably

it’s been steadily increasing ever since Shadowkeep

I think Lightfall is the most amount of sentences we’ve strung together in succession

[shadow crypt]

What about whisper coming back?

[dim minnow]

I think it's Eris Morn having us do a Deepsight thing to experience the mission again

[shadow crypt]

O ok

[dim minnow]

Similar to Zero Hour being Ada-1 sending us through a simulation of the mission

[ember storm]

I guess it means we technically upgraded Xol

since deepsight does work on living creatures

[fallow sky]

I really wish our guardian will interact more evenly with other characters too, not just them giving us exposition

[ember storm]

if you’re asking for voicelines during gameplay, nah

[dim minnow]

At least we were given actual spoken lines I lore tabs for once granted it was basically half of a cutscene

And no, I do not count Chronicon

[ember storm]

there’s also the third person narration during the thorn quest

[fallow sky]

Doesn't have be, just an interaction that shows us having more of a personality would be really nice

[ember storm]

You are the new owner of Dredgen Yor's original Thorn. Merely holding the gun makes you nauseous—not out of moral principles, necessarily, but instead a very physical effect which reminds you of losing your Light during the Red War. You don't know what to do with this… thing. You have no intention of firing it.

[dim minnow]

I remember an interaction where we put our hand on our heavy weapon to make Spider know that we didn't appreciate him talking shit

Might have been allegiance quest

[fallow sky]

Yeah i really like stuff like that

[fallow loom]

I see many people been like this 🤯 after they saw this
Why?
What’s this?

[dim minnow]

Ever seen those statues in Pyamid ships or Dsc or at the end of GoS?

[fallow loom]

It’s a being not only a statue?!

[dim minnow]

Ever since we first saw statues of the veiled women in Shadowkeep, we have been wondering what the meaning of it is

[fallow loom]

Yeah I remember

[dim minnow]

And now, we see the veiled women in this TFS trailer meaning we may finally get an answer on them

[fallow loom]

I can’t even imagine what it will be

[dim minnow]

I know the statues are normally used by the Witness to grant power to others

[fallow loom]

I can’t wait even 4 days for the expansion release

[dim minnow]

Like when it reached out to the Sol Divisive or when it gave Clovis I Clarity Control

Or giving Eris Morn and us Stasis

I bet that Veil lady is probably going to be some rotted corpse or something to scare us

[little gorge]

bungie said they aren't going for straight up horror

[empty fern]

(It was zavalas wife, the real thing) that would be the creepy

[ember storm]

she’d literally be bones now

[jagged badge]

They said they weren’t going for body horror in the design of the Pale Heart

[fallow loom]

Then why there was hundrends behind zavala whan he was in front of the witness

[little gorge]

that does sort of extend to the design of the witness corruption in general

i don't think it matches the whole vibe

[fallow loom]

It’s not good for bungie to go for horror they aren’t so stupid to do this👎

[empty fern]

Idk, far fetched enough as it it but I’m gonna try

It’s the remains of all the people he couldn’t save
Including Amanda

[fallow loom]

Maybe
We will know every thing after
3 days
23 hours
20 minutes
30 seconds

[empty fern]

Yay

[chrome fog]

Moreso esoteric horror than body horror

Instead of being gore and guts and blood and stuff, just off-looking things that are almost like something normal but then you look and it’s not

[fallow loom]

I play from d1 but at the d1 time I didn’t understand the story too much because I was kid but I remember the ergo sum and some content creators that played the bungie event said that ergo sum what will happen if it came back and what is ergo sum doing for us

[chrome fog]

What is ergo sum

[fallow loom]

A sword that is linked with our grave but I don’t know What it do

[empty fern]

It’s charged attack revives ally ghosts (my source is trust me)!

[fallow loom]

😂

If that is the h.e.l.m💀

That means maybe no more mara sov😕

[empty fern]

Too smooth, don’t think so

[fallow loom]

Don’t get me wrong I mean she’s one of the strongest allies if she dies maybe the witness will complete tfs

[fallow loom]

The most thing that Im sure of it is that is the h.e.l.m
If it wasn’t then what it will be?
Nothing looks like the h.e.l.m

[empty fern]

Eververse ship

[chrome fog]

You mean the sword on our grave in the Corridors of Time? 1) we’ve already diverted from that timeline, and 2) that’s one of those exotic swords from D1, I think from Oryx’s blade Willbreaker, can make Solar, Arc, or Void

[empty fern]

Ergo sum? Razelighter and dark drinker?

[fallow loom]

There is something is destiny story I can’t even understand
The time lines
I only understood the story without any Complications and many timelines
It doesn’t fit in my mind

[ember storm]

it’s not back to the future rules

vex can’t just go back in time and win

saint’s revival was a one time deal because of the properties of the infinite forest, nothing like it can happen again

the time pockets on mars are essentially copies of what things were like back then, they’re not portals to the past

anything else you want cleared up

[remote sky]

But isn't the point that the character doesn't have much of a personality? They're meant to be a blank slate. Something for us to plaster ourselves onto?

[ember storm]

to an extent

but they’re not your character to write

to flesh out you can use your imagination, but the people who want to be objectively evil aren’t going to get anything

it’s not a role playing game

[jagged badge]

The Guardian absolutely has specifically character traits and relationships with characters even despite what the player might think. Like their friendship with Crow

Some people might hate Crow but the Guardian is genuinely friends with him

Plus, the Guardian is demonstrably noble, fighting to protect and not just fighting for glory or reward

[chrome fog]

I mean we’ve been on a pretty consistent timeline, in that all the bad ones we’ve avoided

[chrome fog]

To an extent I disagree and appreciate the approach Sarsion gave, which is that the Guardian’s story was originally modular to whatever activities you did or didn’t do and you are also able to fill in the blanks that your Guardian has, as well as leave out some pieces that you might not like.

However it’s becoming increasingly clear that this philosophy is being eschewed for simplicity and cohesive narrative, as events and expansions are continually building on previous content even if the player hasn’t experienced it.

[ember storm]

I mean at a certain point the main character’s actions have to be established

[jagged badge]

Who’s that geezer

[raw hazel]

Sounds like a nerd

[chrome fog]

An old fart I have many a disagreement with

But I did love popping off with the Veil-Traveler theories

[chrome fog]

Just had to navigate around him bringing this up every time

[vale cradle]

What was the trap Riven set when we killed her?
I didn't really play when Forsaken came out.
Wasn't the whole city "cursed" after we killed her in the raid?

I'm playing the introduction mission to the season right now and Petra was talking about it.

[smoky rose]

Yes

There was a big ole wish rigged up to go off on Riven's death, the one that cursed the Dreaming City

[magic lance]

What makes a guardian worthy of being resurrected?

[cinder hatch]

Basically random choice

We were a dead nobody and the ghost was like yeah he's got potential

[jagged badge]

The Guardians have a mantra about dedication, bravery and sacrifice but there’s not really a set thing. Ghosts get a vague feeling sometimes so they rez someone they feel a connection too, even if that sometimes doesn’t always end well

[vale cradle]

What exactly did this curse do?

[smoky rose]

It's a 3 week cycle

or 6? Either way it's a cycle that repeats every few weeks, resetting everything. It's literally an infinite violence generator for Savathun

And not only does she get power from the violence, she gets power from people trying and failing to break the curse

[vale cradle]

And this curse is still active?

So did Riven and Savathun work together?

[smoky rose]

To plan the wish, yes

[smoky rose]

And yes, it is still active, Mara has given up on fixing it for the moment, she's busy helping us first

[hardy anvil]

What is Moondust?

[smoky rose]

More like who

[hardy anvil]

It was something Drifter had said during a radio message

[smoky rose]

That's Drifter's nickname for Eris

[hardy anvil]

[exotic cloak]

Does Drifter have other cool nicknames with other characters or just with Eris

[novel blade]

not that i know of

[vale cradle]

Who are the Corsairs?

[smoky rose]

Awoken soldiers

Women, generally, because the Awoken population is overwhelmingly female

The Paladins are like the generals for the corsairs'

[vale cradle]

Oh, like those who are at the HELM?

[smoky rose]

Yes, those are corsairs

[novel blade]

^

[vale cradle]

Great, thanks!

[remote sky]

What's the most disturbing (and I don't mean icky or weird, I mean traumatizing) bits of lore

I'm curious in an evil type of way

[ember storm]

Cayde shot a kid once

[chrome fog]

*at, missing “at” a kid

[ember storm]

Dova would say otherwise but yeah I just say it because it’s funny

[chrome fog]

Uhhhh the bunny embryo

[exotic cloak]

I guess there can be something very traumatic in the resurrection, we have like cases of guardians being killed over and over again?

I know saint indeed did that to Savathun there's any other case?

[chrome fog]

No not really

Oh! Jana-14

Look up the Necrotic Grip exotic and the uhhh Thorn smg exotic, their lore tabs are interesting in that regard (disturbing lore)

[vestal summit]

Everyone knows that Oryx changed sex once he became taken king, but is there any lore reason for him to do that? I think Savathun and Xivu Arath are/were more powerful than Oryx when he communed with the deep but they didn't undergo the same transformation.

[rancid socket]

The Hive/Krill seem to have biology reminiscent of insects/crustaceans, they as a species have different "morphs" for different social niches. Kind of like some types of ants or bees. After receiving power from the deep, the siblings were able to achieve new morphs. Before that, there may have only been a much smaller distinction between royal and non-royal krill.
It's unclear if Oryx's King Morph has any biological purpose, as far as I'm aware the Hive are asexual/hermaphroditic.

[ember storm]

it was specifically because the morph was the King morph

knight isn’t gender specific and Savathun was already female, so the mother morph did nothing. King is the role that Aurash specifically filled, so she became Auryx (later renamed Oryx)

[cold onyx]

Guys I can’t wait to slay a god using godslayer

[ember storm]

to be clear, the change wasn’t when Oryx gained the power of the taken, that was years later

[cold onyx]

When’s byfs 9 hour video coming out

[ember storm]

it was the very moment the three siblings first ingested their worms and became hive

[vestal summit]

is already out.

actually its still premiering.

[ember storm]

I don’t want to watch but I hope someone compiles all the mispronunciations

[rancid socket]

I'm fairly certain Savathun getting risen may have given her a new morph as well.

but that's harder to prove

[vestal summit]

basketball morph.

[ember storm]

no, that’s not how it works

[cold onyx]

3 hours until byf gets to d1

[ember storm]

Morphs are specifically tied to the worm gods and their tribute

Savathun changing her look is not a morph, it’s literally just her aesthetics

[cold onyx]

Question is the witness the bad guy

[ember storm]

take a guess

[rancid socket]

Oh, not just a biological response to access to higher powers?

[cold onyx]

But he said we can get what we want

[ember storm]

morphs are not automatic by any means, they are due to worms connecting their hosts to the worm gods

[raw hazel]

I have gotten to Clovis’ logbook as part of my pre-TFS refresh, and I am reminded of how truly much I despise him

[ember storm]

Savathun had neither when she became risen, she literally just changed her outfit

[rancid socket]

fair enough

[chrome fog]

That would be interesting if it were the case, but unfortunately the morphs are as Waltz said; it would take some fancy narrative maneuvering to implement this kind of idea, but I think it would be neat to explore with Savathun

[plain bronze]

so i was watching the first scene we see Gaul in from the red war, and I was wondering, if he took our light, how did we survive falling from his ship all the way to the ground?

[fast tapir]

yknow im not really sure

perhaps the armor?

[rancid socket]

Probably got lucky and was limp when we hit the ground.

[gentle geyser]

Well, honestly how do we currently survive falling great heights is the real question

[plain bronze]

light probably

[rancid socket]

clearly we're built different.

oh wait, I forgot. we did have traces of light within us during that fall. as did Ghost.

[trim grotto]

We barely did. We could hardly walk, we were unconscious for a while. If we didn't find Ghost, we would've never made it out of the City.

[shadow crypt]

who is this

[chrome fog]

Even with our light removed, there were some Guardians during the Red War that were able to hold up buildings to protect fleeing citizens. Then there's also the famous example of Saint-14 continuing to destroy Vex units and even the Vex mind that had stolen his Light.

[shadow crypt]

Looks like those figured darkness statues we’ve seen before

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Wait til next Tuesday

[shadow crypt]

aw man

[chrome fog]

I mean it's literally only from the trailer, how are we gonna know about it until the expansion release

[shadow crypt]

i guess I was a little curious

[dim minnow]

?

[chrome fog]

Cayde shooting kids

[dim minnow]

ok, so there was a lore entry that was exclusive to the 3rd Grimoire Anthology that took place in the Dark Future

the Witness showed Ana Bray a piece of her past life which showed her how close she was with her grandfather (which was not a good thing)

specifically, it was a memory from when she was 12 years old when Clovis I brought her to see her father who was now an exo at this point

[raw hazel]

Claire

[dim minnow]

of course, we know that Clovis II literally tore himself to pieces due to DER

[gentle geyser]

Blaire sounds nicer and cooler

[dim minnow]

so he was in the final stages before that happened and Ana was watching it happen, but she was intrigued

then her and Clovis I would walk out of the room with the sounds of tearing metal being heard clearly

Clovis I would also give Ana a mint form his pocket

[ember storm]

Every time I bring up Micah you mention your view about the shot actually connecting and the traveler dreams being some exo thing instead

[dim minnow]

oh yeah that

yeah the lore book really felt off after Micah's encounter with Cayde

[raw hazel]

Grandfather of the year material (I am re-reading the logbook and he is a horrible, horrible man)

[ember storm]

should’ve added more penguins

that would’ve smoothed everything over

[dim minnow]

I push through this invasion and make my way to the source, practically magnetized. Further underground. I cant focus on anything other than It.

"You promised… you'd keep… her out. Promised." My father's voice comes from the machine. That's right… I sense Jinju trying to materialize in the now, but she can't. It's stopping her.

"Anastasia has a gift and has earned her place here. Besides, you have more pressing concerns," my grandfather said. He was so cold. "It didn't work, I'm afraid. Your mind is breaking. Soon there will be nothing left."

"You said… would work."

"I said it could work. Nevertheless, this was a step in the right direction. Don't you agree, Anastasia?"

I nod. I'm not crying. I'm… interested?

"Curious. An oddly similar outcome as the previous clinical trial, despite a radically different combination of chemicals. We're not generating sufficient results to merit continuation, yet we must. Something is still missing, though what that is remains to be seen."

"Ana… come," my father calls to me. I don't move. "I'm afraid he's too dangerous, my dear. Let us say goodbye."```

"Such is life, my dear. But not for much longer. We're going to fix that, you and I."

I smile. He loves me. He believes in me.

It's been so long since my life, my real life, before the light. I had no idea. Everything. I've tried to find out about myself has been covered up, redacted, and hidden from me. I thought I was a good person. I don't know what I am anymore.```

[ember storm]

all he needed was a stuffed penguin, clearly, kids go crazy for that kind of thing

[dim minnow]

now I'm wondering if this vision was even true

given that it was from the Witness and Ana's the reason why Clovis' plans with Rasputin failed

[vale cradle]

Didn't we see this veiled figure multiple times in the past, though?
As a statue, I mean.
Isn't there one in one of the pyramids?
Maybe we'd know something about it.

[dim minnow]

there are multiple veiled lady statues

[trim grotto]

The statues are Darkness artifacts related to the Witness. We've seen numerous ones before, including one in each Pyramid - and a few in Essence.

[vale cradle]

Also, it seems like you can't simply break a bargain with an Ahamkara, right?
So we can't just get her eggs, let her grant us the 15th wish and then just destroy them?

[dim minnow]

worth noting that they ususally appear as a source of power from the Witness

[chrome fog]

Still haven't had much elaboration what they are or if they're representative of anything

[trim grotto]

Well. We could, I suppose. But I'd rather not anger the thing that was able to close the DC in a time loop.

And is also allowing us to save the universe itself

[vale cradle]

So Riven still has power even in death?

[trim grotto]

Ahamkara bones are infamous for this, actually.
Riven shouldn't, but I don't want to test that.

[vale cradle]

So what does actually happen to the eggs at the end of the quest?
I'm only at the beginning.
Are they secure right now?

[trim grotto]

Yes, we secured them and Riven complied with our bargain to allow us entry. They'll be cared for.

[vale cradle]

Season of the Ahamkaras incoming

[chrome fog]

That was this season

All the other ahamkara were hunted to extinction in the Great Hunt, and only now is a new generation of Ahamkara possible

[trim grotto]

(she means after the eggs hatch)

[shadow crypt]

Who was the first ahamkara?

[chrome fog]

Not something we know

[trim grotto]

We don't know of any such history.

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

[chrome fog]

Never had enough good enough relations between us and Ahamkara before tensions escalated and we hunted them down to prevent them from abusing their wish-making capabilities

[raw hazel]

I want a doghive

[remote sky]

This is oof

I love forgetting that I've requested lore and then reading the convos I sparked

BECAUSE THIS CHANNEL ISN'T ACTIVE ENOUGH AND MY ADHD REQUIRES SPEED (20 FUCKIN MINUTES, REALEY?! /j but also /srs)

[chrome fog]

No worries, the brainrot is real

[vale cradle]

Was/Is Mara Sov in love with a woman?

[trim grotto]

Sjur Eido, the first Queen's Wrath. Wishender was her bow.

Well, hers was larger.

[vale cradle]

What was larger?

🤨

[raw hazel]

Her bow

[trim grotto]

Her bow. Her Wish-Ender. It was taller than Shaxx.
She was as tall as he was, if not taller. Her bow (just a bow! an ordinary bow!) was certainly taller.

[vale cradle]

Damn

[chrome fog]

10-ft bow, got damn

[vale cradle]

Spoiler me.
Who scattered Riven's eggs?

And why?

[dim minnow]

Taranis, Riven's mate

he did it to keep them safe since Riven was Taken at that time

[vale cradle]

Have we known him before?

[dim minnow]

no

[vale cradle]

Well, thank you!

[dim minnow]

he is the only good Ahamkara so far

like, fully good

Hefnd was a bro tho

[vale cradle]

Yeah, I just saw the little cinematic

Quite tragic

But I have to ask:
What's the deal with Oryx and Riven?
What did he do to her?

[trim grotto]

He Took her.

[vale cradle]

By corrupting her with Taken stuff?
What did he want from her?

[trim grotto]

He wanted to Take an Ahamkara. He was, after all, the Taken King. It's kinda his whole deal.

[vale cradle]

So he didn't want her wish-granting magic?

[trim grotto]

He did accidentally make one minor Wish which ended up granting Riven free will after Oryx's death, but no. Through Riven, the Taken corruption spread throughout the Dreaming City.

[red comet]

Plot twist: in final shape what defeats the witness is a bunch of poukas

[trim grotto]

do we like
chuck them at the Witness as hard as we can?

[red comet]

No no no they come in droves towards the witness and eat their flesh off the bone

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-papa-roland-goedulf-basketball-strike-gif-15193525501341847040

[outer dragon]

He wished to Take her specifically

[gentle geyser]

Bro thinks this is the rebels series finale

[cinder hatch]

So are the hive we see in the trailers real hive or some witness made bs

Since it feels weird for them to be in the traveler

[empty fern]

Probably real hive

[jagged badge]

Maybe after we open the way, everyone shows up to follow us in

[gentle geyser]

That is most likely what happens

The fallen and hive could easily make it into the pale heart after us

[shadow crypt]

are the fallen our allies?

[jagged badge]

House Light are. They’re civilians of the Last City. House Dusk and House Salvation are still hostile

[eternal lantern]

What does salvation mean

[jagged badge]

How do you mean? The definition of the word itself or?

[eternal lantern]

Yes, still dont understand what does darkness at the last cutscene shadowkeep tryna tell me

[jagged badge]

preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.

[eternal lantern]

Break it down a lil more?

[jagged badge]

The Witness claims to want to help the universe. “We know pain. Our purpose is its end”

It believes that the universe brings about endless suffering. “The universe makes us all victim and perpetrator of its infinite cruelty”
So it offers “salvation” by seeking to reshape the universe into a “perfect stillness”.
“No more life. No more death”

I’m using a lot of quotes here haha, I hope it’s illustrative

Man why couldn’t I have done my A-Level English exam on Destiny

[chrome fog]

Also technically not Darkness, the Witness.

[red comet]

Real hive, in the trailer we see tombships enter the paleheart

[red comet]

The raid name is lowkey a pun

[jagged badge]

So was Root of Nightmares

[red comet]

Ha ha ha

[empty fern]

(We also see a new ogre variant, it has some kind of head armor)

[red comet]

I didn’t know that but I mean they are real hive due to the tombships

[empty fern]

You can find a few clips from the ads on Reddit

[red comet]

Wowza

[cinder hatch]

I didn't think the hive would help the witness

Since the witness causing stillness of the whole universe doesn't really rock with sword logic

[empty fern]

(Yea see)

[versed sierra]

What is The Final Shape?

[empty fern]

Lego movie antagonists plan

[cinder hatch]

Living but not living dead but not dead

[cinder hatch]

Literally this

[versed sierra]

explain in.. destiny terms?

[cinder hatch]

This

[empty fern]

Witness wants to calcify (freeze) the universe to its preference

[versed sierra]

my guardian is too hot for that

[cinder hatch]

The witness basically shows nihilist are and always will be losers

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/lego-lego-movie-business-gif-26253264

Cannot tell me witness isn’t lord business, LOOK AT IT

[shadow crypt]

Why did this channel get slow mode

[empty fern]

(Barricade incase someone spams spoilers)

[cinder hatch]

Yeah what if people talk about the 5 minute make put scene with cayde and crow

[little gorge]

(for those of you who haven't watched the lego movie this guy wanted to glue the legos together)

[empty fern]

Thankfully that’s fully been revealed and is safe to post

[fresh zephyr]

THE KRAGGLE

[empty fern]

Who let you into lore chat

[cinder hatch]

Lore prediction

[fresh zephyr]

😔

I'm excited for the reveal of Bob, The Head Tormentor in Final Shape, who will inevitably overthrow the Witness and Echoes will be entirely about us trying to defeat Bob as he creates Vex/Tormentor Hybrids

[jagged badge]

Is that a quote from something specific or is it a trope or? It sounds familiar

[fresh zephyr]

If a Tormentor doesn't say "chi chi" in the DLC, I'm refunding the game. Simple.

[cinder hatch]

It's a joke from jjk

[jagged badge]

Ah nvm I’ve not watched that

Perhaps that is a trope, or that joke is a reference itself? I dunno

[ember storm]

it’s from how to train your dragon, or it uses the exact trope

[split viper]

I just joined this server

This is the first message I read

[sudden parrot]

I tapped the message… I should have stayed curious

[jagged badge]

Welcome!

[chrome fog]

We promise it’s not always like this. Sometimes we get to talk about the lore.

[sudden parrot]

I will kill the witness

[chrome fog]

Yes, that is the goal of the next expansion

How ever did you know?

[sudden parrot]

Cuz I’m literally Batman

[chrome fog]

Smarter answer would’ve been you watched the trailers

Like geez wonder what the big bad of the next expansion is

As if it hadn’t been shown

Little late to the party if you’re trying to be Batman

[sudden parrot]

My bad, robin wanted me to watch one piece with him

[chrome fog]

Uh huh

[ember storm]

that’s like the last person you want to get to kill someone

[valid sun]

do we know anything about what powers the worm gods hold? since we know xol gave necromancy to nokris and taken came from defeating akka

[jagged badge]

Oryx didn’t learn how to Take from defeating Akka

[valid sun]

i know

[jagged badge]

Oryx defeated Akka to gain strength enough in the Sword Logic to gain an audience and commune with “the Deep”. From that encounter, Oryx transcribed the Tablets of Ruin

[little gorge]

or, you know, play the game

[split viper]

Alright

So a quick rundown, I’ve missed literally everything after forsaken when it comes to lore

And we’re talking like, pre-seasons even being a thing

Now, I’ve caught up to pieces of lightfall, like season of deep, witch and wish

Shadow keep and beyond light are the least knowledgeable ones for me when it comes to its lore

[jagged badge]

Dova made some summaries of different content recently. Want me to link that?

[split viper]

Sure

[candid inlet]

xovenetia (ID 516552086205235230)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
Destiny recap made by Dovadah

D1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y3 Part 1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y3 Part 2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y4 Part 1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y4 Part 2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y5 Part 1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y5 Part 2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y6 Part 1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y6 Part 2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

Season of the wish and Into the light: <#📚lore-discussion message>

Command triggered by t7tempest. Message link from · May 30, 2024, 9:19 AM

[split viper]

wowzers

[jagged badge]

Oh Lord it embedded

[empty fern]

Fun to see it every time

[empty fern]

Hey it’s more helpful that way

[remote sky]

Do we know how the HIVE GHOSTS got their shells? Such as immaru?

Honestly specifically immaru

Can't leav shit like this veiled bungie

[jagged badge]

They were made for them so they changed their shells

[remote sky]

But immaru revived savathun because it was his call, no? And he was on earth, too, so..

[jagged badge]

They planned it beforehand

[remote sky]

Wait whaaaaaaaat.. sounds like something they'd do but whaaa

[jagged badge]

Savathûn had her right hand waiting to guide her Risen self back to her Throne World and inform her who she was immediately

She didn’t just happen to be resurrected by Immaru

It was a plot. Just as how she plotted to ensure she’d be able to regain her memories too

Which is what she baited us into doing in Witch Queen

[ember storm]

people hate me for saying it, but parts of WQ were definitely half-baked (why do we pretend Savathun having a ghost is a surprise when we meet Fynch in mission 2)

there was the whole thing of “oh wow maybe the traveler gave Savathun the ghost??” but it’s disproven after like 10 minutes and never actually brought up again

Immaru just shows up later on in season of the witch and nobody brings it up at all

[remote sky]

Imagine if we got to confused and newly risen savathun first and had her join us

Nah immaru would prolly fuck it up somehow

[ember storm]

no but that was literally the plan

[remote sky]

Aiat??

[ember storm]

Immaru was in on it all along and Savathun’s number 2 was standing off to the side watching the whole thing

there was zero room for error

[remote sky]

Biased savathun

Anyway I just realized both darkness warlock subclasses talk about binding reality and that's exactly what the final shape is holy shit foreshadowing is crazy

[ember storm]

I don’t really think that’s meant to be that

everything paracausal is about bending reality to your will, that’s the meaning of the word

[remote sky]

Hello let me be delusional pls

Now I recognize that witness stopped the traveller and the hive from bonding

What if the hive were gonna be what we are? Not only Lightbearers but heroes of all reality?

[ember storm]

no and no

[remote sky]

Preach

[ember storm]

the traveler was just going to bless their civilization like any other, but since the worm gods were currently imprisoned under their feet the witness just saw an opportunity and took it

[remote sky]

Fuck I keep confusing the worm gods thinking they're some sort of fuckin witness subordinate

[jagged badge]

The Traveler only made Lightbearers as a last resort with us. It’s never been her plan before

[ember storm]

i mean they are, technically

[remote sky]

ooh we're getting into the technically

[jagged badge]

There were eons and eons and eons between the Hive and humanity. The Traveler visited many species in between

[ember storm]

they’re only “worm gods” because of the witness

[remote sky]

OH

[ember storm]

how many of them actually genuinely think the witness is right and their boss, I don’t think any

[jagged badge]

None were ever Lightbearers like we were. And even we weren’t Lightbearers when the Traveler first came to us

[ember storm]

but everything they have is thanks to the witness

[remote sky]

I know this

[jagged badge]

Only centuries later when our Collapse happened did the Traveler decide on its last stand

[remote sky]

Also wasn't the golden age like only a few measly centuries 😭

[ember storm]

no

it was 100s of 100s of years

long enough for humanity to comfortably assess that the new standard lifespan was over tripled

[remote sky]

I know we don't know exactly when destiny takes place but we do have an estimate no

[ember storm]

probably like 5000 or so

[remote sky]

glub

[iron mortar]

I thought it was 3000 or something, I remember it said 3000 somewhere

[ember storm]

at the very least, Clovis dates the collapse as being over a thousand years ago

there’s a whole golden age between now and then still

[past glen]

what's a mere thousand years

[remote sky]

That's what I was thining

Isn't it like 1300 years from now or some shit I can't member

[iron mortar]

I remember a lore book said 3000 somewhere

[ember storm]

definitely a lot more

[jagged badge]

Can you source that?

[remote sky]

Source: its gonna take ages to look for it bro

[ember storm]

you could just type the numbers into Ishtar and if nothing comes up then it doesn’t exist

what you’re probably thinking of is the first result on Google which is a reddit post estimating (fairly outdated) information of it being 3500 ad

[iron mortar]

It was one of the beyond light lore tabs I think, but I could be wrt

[indigo ermine]

is there a lore reason for why theres some strand grapple points in warlord ruin or is that simply a gameplay feature?

[ember storm]

Gameplay, there is zero reason they would be there

they’re all over Neomuna because of direct proximity to the veil

[chrome fog]

Could be us finding new anchor points of the Weave now that we have Strand - otherwise nothing explicit

As for the timeline discussion, the Great Disaster was centuries ago, which Eris was a part of, and she was described as having been. City citizen on her pre-Rez life. We have untold centuries of Golden Age, centuries to a millennia of Dark Age after the Collapse lasted a short period of time, and then centuries of City Age.

[shadow crypt]

What’s the order of the ages? Like the dark age, golden age, and etc

In chronological order

[open saffron]

golden age dark age warlord age city age?

not that many ages in destiny

dark age and warlord age are kinda the same

[jagged badge]

There’s no “Warlord age”

[open saffron]

exactly

[jagged badge]

Then…then why did you say it lmao

[raw hazel]

I finally read Dark Future innit’s entirety, it is very aggressively okay

[open saffron]

when?

[raw hazel]

Right here

[open saffron]

||did i ask||

[raw hazel]

It’s a public server, I can chime when I wish

[open saffron]

[red comet]

You’ve just been packed in mate

[prime terrace]

Oh yeah yeah

[chrome fog]

Putting your mistakes in public tends to get them pointed out, dunno how you haven’t learned this one

[chrome fog]

Goes from

• now
• Golden Age
• Collapse
• Dark Age
• City Age
• Age of Triunph

[open saffron]

maybe i value a laugh more than the balls opinions of strangers

cause it is funny

lol

[raw hazel]

[open saffron]

read it again

[ember storm]

I don’t feel like it

[ember storm]

anyway what are we calling the current age

cause it sure as hell ain’t triumphant lol

[raw hazel]

The cheese toastie era

[open saffron]

its got its ups and downs

[ember storm]

the era that brought us doghives

[open saffron]

what?

[raw hazel]

Everybody loves doghives

[open saffron]

i prefer it as a breakfast cereal

[shadow crypt]

Do Guardians have pets?

[chrome fog]

Uh huh

[ember storm]

one of them did, and that was Luna

(didn’t really end well so it’s not really a good idea)

[shadow crypt]

have we seen Guardians be married

[chrome fog]

Zavala for a bit. Also Saint and Osiris

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

[chrome fog]

Uhhhhh Eriana and Wei Ning? Eriana’s Vow is to get revenge for her partner’s death in the Great Disaster

So maaybe

[ember storm]

for the record Zavala is same principle as the pet thing, guardians getting seriously close to mortals generally doesn’t end well

his adoptive son was killed in battle and he had to watch his wife move on with her life, start a new family, and then pass all while he didn’t age a day

he’s since watched generations of this family live and die still feeling guilty about it even though none of them blame him for it

[chrome fog]

A fair assessment but I think some may find it worth it more than others; they are only one example and other stories odd immortals living mortals have had happier endings

[eager trout]

What does SIVA stand for?

[chrome fog]

But yes, generally gonna have some heartbreak with a Lightbearer-mortal relationship

[ember storm]

nothing

[eager trout]

Then why is it capitalized?

[ember storm]

it’s the name of the Hindu god of destruction and reproduction but I don’t think Willa was intentionally referencing it

[ember storm]

because robots

it’s not a person or a group, it’s just SIVA

[open saffron]

preciate it but i already live in someone elses head

double it and give it to the next person

[chrome fog]

Anyways lore

[raw hazel]

Doghives, everyone loves them

[chrome fog]

I wanna review what theories I have on the Winnower but brain is vacay rn and also worried about doing course assignments while I’m out of town

Hally, what are your theories on the nature of the Winnower?

[raw hazel]

h m m m m

[ember storm]

big microwave

[raw hazel]

I am partial to the idea that the Winnower was the Veil, in the way the Gardener is the Traveler.

That when the precusor species enacted their massive death ritual to become the Witness they ended up schlorping up to the Winnower in the process. It is true that Unveiling is very much propaganda to turn us from the Traveler but, that doesn’t preclude parts of the text being true- Especially given the connections it has to other bits of lore and the like. That either the species thought they could do a better job at winnowing the universe into the Final Shape, or even perhaps the species/Witness could in some way be the Winnower’s First Knife- Given how prevalent knife imagery is in their architecture and the like.

[chrome fog]

One theory, the Winnower I feel has potential to be presented as a memetic living concept which tries to make itself realized into real space, or it could just be what the Witness once viewed as a presentable version of its ideals and ideology

Maybe a separate older threat unattached to the Veil, maybe it is the Veil a la “Gardener is Traveler”, a more subtle and secret threat that lurks within the Darkness

[chrome fog]

Really wanna see Bungie actually develop that First Knife imagery because it really is a great image

[dim minnow]

Ink blot cutscene?

They usually got some sort of stylized cutscene in a campaign

[chrome fog]

More in writing than an actual visual, but a narration over an ink lot would also be good

[vestal summit]

can i talk about the trailers here or would that be considered spoilers?

ah fuck it.

|| This would be a perfect oportunity for bungie to do a live event in the shape of the Season of Arrivals live event. From the tower we could see the last city slowly being finalized as everyone starts to panic before the game closes down for maintenance ||

[dim minnow]

rather inconvenient to do it around the time when the downtime starts

[vestal summit]

Yeah but it would be cool and we have precedent for something similar happening.

As I said, same thing happened in Shadowkeep when the servers were about to shut down for beyond light, we could see the traveller regenerating himself while darkness consumed the system.

[dim minnow]

I am aware of the Arrivals finale event, but recall

that the downtime before BL launched is different than the downtime before TFS

servers went down at around 7pm for me back during the Arrivals event

if they were to do the same here, the event would need to be very early in the day

[vestal summit]

For me it would be 1pm, right in the middle of the day.

Still, I miss live events, wish we could have them at least once per year more or less.

[remote sky]

Do we know
why triangles?

Just about every portal we see is either round or triangular

I understand round, they're like doorways, almost. Most openings have been circles, but

Why triangles? In context of the vex, is it because it's very number-y?

[trim grotto]

most mathematically stable/simple shape

only three sides, no other shape can beat that
even a circle is technically comprised of untold sides

[remote sky]

I

Yes..

Thanks that actually really makes sense.

So the witness is simple minded, ha , dumb dumb (this is joke pls don't berate me[looking at you blue names])

[trim grotto]

in a way, yes
darkness and light has always had the analogy of simplicity vs complexity
order and chaos

[analog torrent]

Hello lorechat what are your favorite lorebooks 🙏 gonna prioritize the good ones
Already read: Everything y2 and below, everything from splicer, everything from worthy, persona, acts of mercy, pigeon and phoenix, kraken mare, shattered suns, and unveiling
On the to-read list: legacy's lament, the dark future, the once shipstealer

[trim grotto]

Ghost Stories, easily

[analog torrent]

Ghost Stories 🤝
They went all over the place with that one, definitely one of the best ones

cyrell, the don quixote guardian, sundance, micah, shin malphur, oryx the nightmare daddy, off the top of my head

[remote sky]

I haven't read those tell me about them pls

[analog torrent]

Just ghost stories or all the lorebooks

[remote sky]

FROSTIES

Ghosties sorry autocorrect

[analog torrent]

Ghost stories link: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-ghost-stories
Stories about/by ghosts and their guardians, spanning the dark age to the present day and covering all sorts of guardians

[remote sky]

Reminds me of ghost and tommy

Damn cyrell

Id heard of him before I thought he was doing it just for the fuck of it and he was a psycho but now I kinda get it. He's kinda not understanding it but he firmly believes in letting the dead rest. Kinda respect it

Just.. murder bad.

[dim minnow]

hilarious how Ghost was the guardian and Tommy was the Ghost

[analog torrent]

Cyrell - ghost hunter, didn't want to be rezzed so he's on a crusade against ghosts to end the cycle of violence. He and his ghost parted ways. He hunted Micah-10, the Den Mother of Ghosts, at some point.
Don Quixote guardian - dude went bonkers and destroyed random shit so his ghost abandoned him
Sundance - shiro-4's ghost tells the story of how Cayde was rezzed by Sundance, his ghost
Micah-10 - Den Mother of Ghosts and one of the Six Coyotes, a legendary hunter fireteam. She gathers ghosts with no guardian. She writes a letter to Tallulah Fairwind, the first Hunter Vanguard (not sure if she's the vanguard at the time of the letter), about Cyrell hunting her and how one of her ghosts rezzed a guy named Andal Brask, who would later become the Hunter Vanguard that preceded Cayde
Shin Malphur - Shin was just a baby, but Tianshi the ghost rezzed him when he died to give everyone hope
Oryx the nightmare daddy - Marcus Ren, his ghost Didi, and Enoch Bast put on a play about Young Wolf's defeat of Oryx. It's... questionable. Multiple people, including our Ghost, Shaxx, and Zavala react

this isn't all the entries, just the ones I remember rn 🙏

[remote sky]

My gods yes

[dim minnow]

I think they actually made an appearance in the TFS CE autpgraph book

[raw hazel]

Constellations, and (now) Inspiral.

[remote sky]

Oh isn't Micah trans or something I heard that somewhere

Keel

[trim grotto]

Pretty heavily implied, yeah

[remote sky]

Kewl******

K I'ma do some.laundry and keep reading also fuck the dude from.the third book I hate the warlords (but would most likely do what they did, yeah)

[vale cradle]

Wait, why are we surprised about Riven having eggs if there are dozens of Taken eggs scattered around the Dreaming City?
Am I missing some information?

Are they considered dead because they're corrupted?

[trim grotto]

Yes, and there are two major parts to it.

These eggs are Taken Ahamkara eggs. Any Ahamkara that would have hatched from it would also in turn be Taken, and completely subservient to whichever master the Taken had at the time. Imagine Savathûn or the Witness with an army of forty Wish Dragons subjugated entirely to your command.

Secondly, these eggs are actually dead, but not because of the Taken thing.
The Nine saw these eggs and stepped in, such as it were. In the entry https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/reextinction, the Nine decided to kill the eggs so as to prevent the Taken King from controlling this power.

[vale cradle]

Damn, I guess it's serious if even The Nine step in

[raw hazel]

(Back when the Nine were actually relevant…..)

[vale cradle]

lol

[remote sky]

Ooh what do we know about Shaxx's warlord days

[raw hazel]

He had a fun confrontation with Felwinter.

[trim grotto]

Quite a bit. He was brutal but fair, protected his people but was deadly to those in his way.

[raw hazel]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/remembrance

didn’t embed, hmm

[fresh zephyr]

I’d love to see Osiris rock prismatic

[trim grotto]

Assuming that one requires Light to then mix with the Dark to get Prismatic... he can't.

[vale cradle]

How exactly does an Ahamkara's wish work?
Why does it have to be Savathun's wish we use with Riven?
Why can't we make our own?

After all, we are the ones getting her eggs, not the Witch Queen.

[dim minnow]

Ahamkara feed on the difference between what is granted and what is desired

which is why they do whatever they can to essentially screw the wisher over

if they grant their own wish, the difference is gone and the Ahamkara ceases to be as a result

as for why it has to be Savathun's

so Mara made the wall of wishes to allow her to make wishes in a way that makes it difficult for Riven to mess with

Savathun used the wall to make a wish of her own which is the one we have to grant

we can't just make our own one because of the complexities of it

Savathun put a lot of thought into it so it's realistically the best wish we can use

[remote sky]

Reading this feels discriminatory cuz felwinter is really like "dude you're a king and a tyrant and blah I know what you are you're just like the rest" and I'm glad shaxx is taking it like the ward of dawn he is "I protect them."

[trim grotto]

Felwinter was keeping Shaxx busy.

[fresh zephyr]

This also explains why Cayde is alive, because crow unknowingly wished for him to be alive, thinking he was talking to his sister when it was, in fact, riven shapeshifted as her

[remote sky]

HOLY SHIT???

Thanks crow????

[vale cradle]

Thank you!

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/unforeseen-consequences

[fresh zephyr]

^

Cool ship design with a banger lore piece too

[mild night]

Probably my new favorite ship.

[fresh zephyr]

Ahamkara vs The Witness would be a fire battle

[flat jolt]

Remind me again why and how does savathuns faction wield the light?

[jagged badge]

Savathûn and Immaru organised her own resurrection and then they convinced other Ghosts to join them

[blazing wasp]

They have ghosts that revived them

Savathun died and got revived mere seconds afterwards

[jagged badge]

Said Ghosts ranged from genuine Hive fanatics to disillusioned and confused Ghosts who felt weird about Guardians using Darkness, or ones like Fynch who were just sorta coerced into it all and hoping they could finally find their Lightbearer

[ruby cedar]

tried to introduce my friend to Destiny 2 and she decided to not to play it cuz of

and I agree 😦 I came back after being away for 4 years and started a new char

and it goes milion miles an h, i dont know anyone but everyone treats you like they know u and you know them

[flat jolt]

She can probably do the newlights with you and see how it goes from there. Shaxx thundergifts gives you 1810 weapons and armor

[ruby cedar]

Nothing rly about the armor and weapons but the story

i remember some bits from when I played 4 years ago. But for a new player this must be hard lol

[trim grotto]

It is a bit like that. However, consider that this is the end of a long built up storyline. Ramping up since Shadowkeep years ago, but really since D1. After this, however, there's going to be a whole new story arc. Might be more suitable for a new player.

[ruby cedar]

I guess I will keep playing one my own 🥲

[ruby cedar]

yeah I am starting with Shadowkeep now my self.

cuz thats the earliest xpac u can play. but even in game to coherently get to that you need to go out of your way as a new player to find it.

rather than be directed to it

[trim grotto]

Well, that'd be the reason they added the Timeline feature.

[ruby cedar]

which is good thankfuly BUT wish i could start the xpacs from there

for some one who is new to the game to figure out you need to find the right planet with right symbol and click somewhere on the map.

Any way sorry for the rant , i just like the game and thought i might get my friend in to it 😭

[flat jolt]

So its canon the only way to access the Light is to be chosen by the traveller via ghost. No ghost no light. While darkness is free to whoever who can wield it but the drawback is no resurrection due to a lack of ghost.

Im crossing my fingers that some non guardians will probably embrace stasis or strand and join the fight.

[trim grotto]

Other than Elsie and Eris and Osiris

[remote sky]

Lol misraaks mocks the way we say his name

Or mithrax if you're too human ew

[remote sky]

Wait but arc energy was used to power many things? Like guns and stuff?

The seraph complexes like in spire of the watcher

ARCtrician?

Or is future humanity too dumb to know what electricity is

[trim grotto]

arc embodies a number of things including electricity

[remote sky]

So basically the light is more of an all-encompassing term?

[trim grotto]

What?

[remote sky]

Like how void is often referencing the bending of time and space? Gravity, black holes

Solar is.. heat, fire, healing; the hearth, basically.

Idk I may just be stupid

[past glen]

tbh void is REALLY weird

[trim grotto]

Solar, Void, and Arc, are sort of like collective terms for their respective energies.
The Light we wield can manifest as and embody those energies.

[remote sky]

Yeah it's light but it's
More or less the absence of light

[past glen]

and at the same time

child of the old gods brings up a few questions

[remote sky]

Yeah.
What?
Solar = fire
Void = gravity
Arc = electricity?

Am I simplifing it good

[past glen]

id have to find it but osiris has a lil summary of the various elements in the hall of heroes

[remote sky]

Yeah I heard those just
Forgor

[trim grotto]

That's a very simplified, yet not inaccurate, view, yeah

[remote sky]

Cool. Uh

[past glen]

"Arc is the element of the electromagnetic, and presides over motion and change. The key understanding of arc is that change is unavoidable and eternal, and learning to adapt with it"

[remote sky]

Why couldn't they have just used another element why'd they say "BOOM! FIRE!" "KAPOW, LIGHTNING" "KERSPLOOSH, GRAVITY!!" like what 😭

[remote sky]

Oh yeah I guess a lot of the light is very
Life-lessony

[trim grotto]

because using something like "rock" isn't very cosmically applicable for the space orb magic

[past glen]

funny way to say you want water and earthbending

[remote sky]

I
That's fair, yeah. Fair.

[remote sky]

Isn't lightning a subcategory of waterbending tho

[past glen]

fire

[trim grotto]

"I bent the power of the solar flare, the cosmic deep, the electromagnetism of atoms, and also throw stones sometimes!"

[remote sky]

WHAT THE FUCK

[remote sky]

That
Yeah that works

[trim grotto]

lightning is caused by friction, which is heat

[remote sky]

You're really good at taking my stupidity into account thank you

[past glen]

i threw a cosmic rock at a guy really hard

[trim grotto]

it's why it can appear in, say, duststorms

[remote sky]

Holy shit real life lore

[vale cradle]

Is Mara Sov more of a diplomat?
Does she not fight?

[past glen]

oh she can certainly fight

its just... in the lore books

[vale cradle]

That's unfortunate

[red comet]

Why did the black fleet leave Sol? The witness knew where the traveler would be after the collapse and yet they still left it, why?

And what were they doing so far away from Sol?

[blazing wasp]

The traveler fought back for once, they went "real shit" and dipped until it "woke up"

Other factors were at play such as savathun deceiving the witness that the traveler was stronger than it actually was.

[red comet]

Like all the way outside the galaxy

[red comet]

Ahahaha alr alr cheers

[blazing wasp]

They weren't that far out in the red war.

Probably just a retreat, vibing until... I dunno

[red comet]

In the cutscene you can clearly see them far outside the galaxy

[blazing wasp]

Outside the solar system yes, galaxy unknown

We do not get a confirmation on their location until they actually reached outer edges of our solar system

About 4 years later

[red comet]

Idk bro that kinda looks like a galaxy to me

https://youtu.be/G97K6nARQSg?si=OZH6Mr-X6ve4bzMs

Go to 1:04

Like that is very much far outside of the galaxy

[blazing wasp]

Looks like just a regular system to me.

I'd go more into it but I got work like now

[fresh zephyr]

If Oryx returned as a Lightbearer, I feel like it'd be even harder to forgive him than Crow lmao

[red comet]

That’s a tad bit bigger than the system

[chrome fog]

This might help a bit (from the pins)
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/k4k6ox/light_is_not_the_fundamental_forces
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/tb1svc/an_updated_analysis_of_stasis

Also curious if Lettuce or someone else has done a Strand write-up yet

[ember storm]

the witness was waiting until it knew the traveler was alive and well, since that’s probably vital for the pale heart conversion

there’d be no point in holding onto a head traveler

Arrivals and BL were essentially the witness trying to keep us busy while it actually got working to secure the veil

[remote sky]

Strand is just the collective consciousness like in metal gear rising revengeance

[ember storm]

Lightfall is when the traveler is confirmed to be active, the witness has extra incentive to find the veil, and a new disciple to do it

[remote sky]

Lol

[ember storm]

that’s the weave, strand is something else

[chrome fog]

Electromagnetism + psychic shit, to our theorization

Aesthetics and descriptors informs this interpretation, strand’s stripey look is very close to the two-slit experiment result kinda sorta if you squint and tilt your head to the side

[chrome fog]

Also less media manipulation more telekinesis

[fresh zephyr]

RIP Calus

I miss Ghaul :((

[fervent sandal]

At the end of prophecy are these nine dots in the sky the nine?

[jagged badge]

I’m ngl I never noticed those were a thing

[fresh zephyr]

Holy shit

That's actually incredible

But for some reason it's triggering some weird arachnophobia in me lol

Also, question.

How did Calus used to do that projection thing? Was it through his Psions?

[jagged badge]

I think he had minor Psionic abilities himself from his funky planet juice

I could be totally mistaken though

[fresh zephyr]

Oh yeah, he used to drink planets lol

I wonder if there's anyone in charge of the Shadow Legion. Could be a story for later

After Defiance, they sorta just packed up shop and went home

[fervent sandal]

Lol

[fresh zephyr]

It's very probable that after Calus's purpose had been used up, the Witness just abandoned the Shadow Legion. Has a great track record with that stuff.

I love the Shadow Legion. Hope for more

[chrome fog]

More so the Egregore he was cultivating and then let overtake the Leviathan ship, which itself is Darkness imbued; Cabal don’t actually eat and drink mountains and oceans

[ember storm]

well that’s what the leviathan did

it mulched up planets which the Psions crafted into a special wine also imbued with their power

that’s where the big head projection comes from

[chrome fog]

Oh huh

Thought that shit was just the Egregore

[ember storm]

egregore wasn’t on the leviathan until haunted and he was doing the psion stuff since year 1

[fresh zephyr]

Isn't engregore created by death

[ember storm]

I dunno it’s a fungus

[fresh zephyr]

Fungi is a sign of death on trees though, so idk what to make of egregore

[ember storm]

isn’t that just because fungus can end up killing trees

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah

[ember storm]

they suck up nutrients from their environment so if their environment is a tree then the tree just dies

[fresh zephyr]

If not removed early, it becomes deadly for trees

[ember storm]

it’s not like a special property they’re just eating

it’s not like dead matter is what attracts them

[plucky merlin]

Well egregore is a concept that means

‘a non-physical entity or thoughtform that arises from the collective thoughts and emotions of a distinct group of individuals.’

So like the chaos gods in warhammer, they’re things made by the thoughts of a shit tonne of people

The thought bit is probably what makes it darkness related, darkness is thought and light is physical

What that means? Dunno

[chrome fog]

They are also very physically fungal type plants, though Deep has showed us that there are forms of it that exist as coral, most likely an effect of the location being Taken

[remote sky]

Is there a book or something describing how glint feels or felt about reviving uldren?

[maiden kraken]

I think that I saw the shadow legion in one of the final shape previews or trailers or smthn. Maybe they are still gonna be used? Hope so cuz I like all the pyramid witness units and having diversity of enemies in the pale heart would be cool

[vale cradle]

Could it be that Cayde's eyes in the newest cutscene weren't glowing as much as before when we first saw him back alive?
Is there no deeper reason behind it?

[shadow crypt]

What’s this

[ember storm]

Cradle, places where the traveler’s blessing directly reaches planets and moons

main notable example is the one on Io

[fresh zephyr]

I know people complain about Lightfall being filler, but I actually like Lightfall for what it is.

An entity as powerful as the Witness doesn't engage in epic space battles or ground battles, that's what none of these people understand.

The story had flaws, but it definitely did help show how powerful and uncaring the Witness was.

[blazing stream]

Oryx "My throne world is vulnerable. I am going to move it."
Kagoor "Where?"
Oryx "Into a mighty dreadnaught. I shall keep my glorious mind cosmos inside a titanic warship."

I like how Oryx just drops this absolute bizarre plan and Kagoor just goes "Aight."

[fresh zephyr]

To be fair, I don't think anyone has the stomach to say no to Oryx at that point lol

[analog torrent]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/dcclxxxix#book-the-chronicon
Is Calus fr crushing on YW or just freakishly obsessed?

[fiery copper]

hey boss maybe that plan isnt the be-

[fiery copper]

both

[analog torrent]

Let me check something

no fucking way

[fluid steppe]

is savathun evil or not really

[fiery copper]

[fiery copper]

she wants the witness dead as much as we do.
she is not on our side.

the milisecond that we no longer have a common enemy, theres a 90% chance we just go back to shooting each other.

[fluid steppe]

i don't really get the hive gods

[weak prawn]

Are ghost easy to destroy?

[fluid steppe]

i thought xivu arath was dead , also aren't the worms what give them power ? why does savathun wanna get rid of it

[past glen]

xivu's not dead just cut off from her throne workd

[fiery copper]

the remaining 10% is not the possibility of peace btw, it's the chance that she immediately detonates a nuke in the center of the last city and wipes out humanity entirely.

[fiery copper]

that is uh
surprisingly complicated

[fluid steppe]

easy in the sense that 1 shot from the special bullets packs em up instantly

[fiery copper]

i swear this is related, have you ever played payday 2?

[weak prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-anime-personabeys-personabey-realization-gif-25244102

[dim minnow]

Can the Payday crew complete Zero Hour?

[fiery copper]

there's a mechanic called Dodge, which is just a % chance that you take no damage from something.

ghosts are not DURABLE per se, they just use the Light to make it so that they don't get hit in the first place.

[fluid steppe]

can the payday crew 1 phase master rhulk ?

[fluid steppe]

i thought it took special paracausal bullets to kill them but apparently you can just pop them with a shotgun and they die

[fiery copper]

stuff like the Light and Dark automatically pierce through the ghost's Dodge

[dim minnow]

Well, anything used by a guardian is paracausal

[fiery copper]

you can kill them without space magical stuff, it's just harder

petra killed a fireteam of 3 guardians and their ghosts by carpet bombing them

[fluid steppe]

is petra a guardian ?

[fiery copper]

try dodging that shit yeah you aint gonna
no, shes the knife lady that hangs with mara

[jagged badge]

Nope

[fluid steppe]

i know who she is i wasn't sure if she has a ghost or not

[fiery copper]

nah, shes 100% mortal
which makes her even more badass honestly

she does guardian level shit all the time, while she's on permadeath mode.

[fluid steppe]

and she bad asf

[fiery copper]

TRUE

[fluid steppe]

is cayde actually back

[past glen]

who knows

if u got a 2 day time machine u could tell us

[fiery copper]

there's actually a definitive answer to that, and if anyone tells you anything different then they're just wrong.

||man we got no fucken clue wait until the dlc is out gamer||

[fluid steppe]

wtf are the worms

[fiery copper]

the smaller hive worms or the worm gods?

[fluid steppe]

also why did savathun get a ghost i didn't play that season

[fluid steppe]

whichever ones are inside of the hive gods

[jagged trellis]

The traveler gave it to her

[jagged badge]

Wrong

[jagged trellis]

Mb lol

[jagged badge]

She organised it with Immaru. Immaru is just a little shit

[fluid steppe]

so why'd savathun want to get rid of her worm

[jagged badge]

Because to have a worm is to have to kill constantly to satiate it

Savathûn’s worm’s hunger had grown so much over the eons that she couldn’t keep up with it. On top of the threat of her worm potentially consuming her, Savathûn just sorta generally realised the futility of the Hive’s existence

[fiery copper]

aite

the worms that are inside the hive gods are technically just regular hive worms. they're just a lot bigger and fatter because they've been EATING GOOD for the past 60 bajillion years.

hive worms are animals that when you "prove your superiority" over something else, the worm gets a little snack, and gives their host a bit of the energy they receive.

this "proof" is (99% of the time) just fucking killing someone. you just stab a dude and that's enough proof for the worm that you're just built different.

[jagged badge]

So she sought a second life in the Light, though she still wanted to circumvent the consequences and keep her memories and her persona

[fluid steppe]

so what are the taken in relation to the hive

[fiery copper]

the remaining 1% is savathun, who instead of stabbing a bitch decided that she would prove her power by being a gigabrain trickster god and fooling absolutely everything and everyone.

[jagged badge]

Any species can be Taken. Basically the victim has their will subjugated, stripped away and replaced with the Taker’s own will. Oryx learned how to Take from the Witness

[fluid steppe]

i assumed the taken were evolved from the hive somehow

[jagged badge]

Nah

[fiery copper]

in short, because i gtg:

Taking is a power that captures a being and same-day-ships it directly to (probably) the Witness. the Witness then looks at them, goes "ehhh i could do better" and enhances them in some way, before teleporting the unlucky now-taken entity back where it came from.

the taken are associated with the hive mainly because oryx was the first and most well-known being we ever saw use the power.

[fluid steppe]

what's up with riven

i thought she was evil and then she died but now she is back and maybe not so evil

[jagged badge]

It’s not that black and white

[fluid steppe]

yeah i don't expect it to be i just don't know much at all about her

[jagged badge]

Riven was Taken by Oryx back during Taken King. When Oryx was slain, Savathûn controlled the Taken. Riven worked on Savathûn’s behalf to manipulate Uldren Sov into opening the Dreaming City, and then we went in to slay Riven ourselves and inadvertently cursed the City with her last wish

Only, it wasn’t to be her last wish. Savathûn also planned ahead for the eventuality of the Witness entering the Pale Heart to enact the Final Shape, so she devised a wish to follow the Witness. We used the Techeun’s magic to bring Riven’s spirit back so she could grant us this wish

Riven agreed but on the condition we secured her surviving eggs

[fluid steppe]

what is the pale heart

[jagged badge]

A domain within the Traveler, within which the Witness has been striving to bring about the Final Shape - “a perfect stillness” in its eyes

[fluid steppe]

why'd the witness wait so long to do anything

[jagged badge]

I think it’s more that it’s probably a long and complicated process that it is only just know nearing completion of

Convenient, sure, but that’s any fictional story for you haha

[chrome fog]

I think the bigger thing to focus on is his mouth lights being blue instead of yellow

Ooooo is he part memory part physical recreation conjured by the wish Crow made?

[past glen]

the black fleet and the witness kinda got banished back out into the void after the traveler sacrificed itself in the collapse

they've been making their way back

[empty fern]

Think I’m gonna hang out in lore more

[chrome fog]

This and staying a distance back so that their presence would not be totally obvious, before intervening in the moment that the Traveler and her allies are able to gather enough strength

[weak prawn]

What ever happen to oryx banished son?

[empty fern]

Nokris?