📚lore-discussion

[sick yew]

You were close enough yeah

Anyway Investigator Maier best man

[trim grotto]

Hally, um.

It's idle dialogue from D1. It... it isn't actually... it isn't actually a thing.

[dim minnow]

investigate what the Into the Light weapon arsenal is called

[sick yew]

What did he actually investigate again
The light suppression devices right?

[raw hazel]

WHAT

[trim grotto]

I SENT YOU THE VOICE FILE HALLY

[raw hazel]

MAEL you bamboozle me

y’know tbh you did

that’s on me

[dim minnow]

he investigated an incident where a group of psions broke into a Hakke warehouse and stole a fragment of the destroyed Traveler Cage

[trim grotto]

You're the best
Don't change

[raw hazel]

I will eat your bones.

[sick yew]

yeye basically what I said

[dim minnow]

not really

[sick yew]

Shush

Its what I said

Also Häkke*

[dim minnow]

are you Bravery?
or are you Torment?

[trim grotto]

No! Bad Hally!

My bones!

[jagged badge]

Halgorath, Eaten of Bones

[trim grotto]

We called her Meowgly because she was "raised by big cats"

[ancient drum]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/vii-xivu-arath-deathless?highlight=xivu+throne

We will never see Xivu's Throne World with our current Teen rating

[empty fern]

Is it the fleshy one

It is

[restive nymph]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/s/dVA19oSB8N
Crazy theory abt nezarec and the veil

[trim grotto]

So, it seems to me that Osiris thinks that The Veil leaves behind Strand in the wake of the river of souls somehow. The other thing we know about Strand is that it can connect minds together and output them into one. On at least two separate occassions, it has been shown to be able to do so, oncee regarding (Veil Containment) Maya's studies, and the other regarding The Witness.
This is a misunderstanding. Strand isn't relevant here.
As for the rest... Well.

The Hive predate Humanity. Rhulk predates the Hive. The Witness predates Rhulk.
Nezarec also seems largely irrelevant, as he was brought into play after Rhulk, after the Veil.
My point is, the Psions couldn't have had it first, and as far as we know, the Veil never left the possession of the Witness until the Collapse.

The only way I see this working is if... Nezarec brought the Veil to the Psions, and used it to cement himself as some sort of god at the time.

That said, I like the theme of the theory.

[fresh zephyr]

@trim grotto will Nezarec return through Osiris?

Is there any lore about it

[trim grotto]

If anything, it'd be Misraaks. He absorbed the Darkness from the relics, apparently.

[solid sequoia]

When did the different enemy factions arrive in Sol?

[trim grotto]

Vex? Golden Age. Cabal? City Age. Eliksni? Early Dark Ages. Hive? Technically, before Humanity. Came out in the Collapse and again in the early City Age. Taken with Taken King of course, and Scorn in Forsaken.

[solid sequoia]

Damn, Hive really been here that long?

What were they doing?

Just chilling in the moon?

[trim grotto]

Yes!

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny-hunter-shadowkeep-gif-26295740

[native atlas]

fun fact i didnt know it is implied tht Lord Shaxx seems to have a Huge crush on Mara SOV, but then again lord shaxx is married everyone who acquired The Vow bow during The Crimsons so idrk xD

Mara Sov Wrath Sjur Eido died during the reef wars but a assassin so we dont really know tbh

[jagged badge]

For one, rule 3

Two, Shaxx and Mara spent the night reciting Shakespeare and talking about Sjur Eido, who they both knew

[native atlas]

there better?

[jagged badge]

Wife. Sjur Eido is female

[native atlas]

from cover art its hard to tell but gotcha yea my b

[jagged badge]

Not sure what cover art you’re referring to but you don’t need to base it off cover art when she shows up in a lot of written lore

[native atlas]

although doiesnt shaxx has a run in with ahamkara song anyway?

[jagged badge]

Ahamkara song?

[native atlas]

well i just looked up n saw a t\all figure so i assumed it was husband but my fault

[native atlas]

likle shaxx has dead heads and etc of vex n etc right?

[jagged badge]

He has the skull of an Ahamkara and a Vex head strung up above his little area in the Tower yeah

[native atlas]

isnt there a quest or something tht implies The Ahamkara skull he keeps sung savathuns song to him?

[jagged badge]

Savathûn once spied on him through the skull iirc

[native atlas]

yes ofc but wht im tryna figure out is how did savathun try to do tht with shaxx but it happened i think to Ikora, which if we go by the campaign either she controlled or maniupulated ikora or used her to ig make a copy of osiris n bless the hive with the light correct?

i dont get how she went from shaxx to ikora when they arent even in the same area as shaxx but thts wht i got from one of the main story campaigns

[jagged badge]

Savathûn impersonated Osiris for around a year during Beyond Light after Osiris lost his Ghost on the Moon shortly prior to Season of the Hunt. Ikora had welcomed “Osiris” back to the City since he was previously exiled, so Ikora blames herself for letting Savathûn into the City’s secrets basically

[native atlas]

ohh gotcah ik she was tricked i just didnt realize osiris being exiled was tht prevalent

[trim grotto]

It was Destiny 2, it wasn't Dredgen Yor, Jaren Ward wasn't the first Gunslinger, Jaren didn't miss but Yor didn't die, and Shin didn't take Jaren's Ghost.

[trim grotto]

I hope that wasn't too blunt, my apologies if it was. I can explain each point in greater detail, if you'd like.

[ember storm]

i hate detail

be vague

[fresh zephyr]

QUIET

YOU'RE ALL UNSUFFERABLE

Save your torment for someone who gives a damn

Actually the hardest lines in Shadowkeep

[remote sky]

How does last wish even fit into the forsaken story

[chrome fog]

Have you seen the ending of the Forsaken campaign and who the final boss is for Last Wish raid is?

[little gorge]

i love how shadowkeep campaign is the most boring thing ever but it randomly has like 3 peak moments

[remote sky]

I haven't seen the ending, no

Wait yes

The fuckin uh
Servitor looking thing

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/guam-venting-channel-venting-channel-guam-venting-channel-gif-23528296

Yes

(That was an extension of riven)

[remote sky]

What even happened to his corpse if he got eaten

Like how'd he get rezzed n all

[empty fern]

Don’t think there was any stomach in there, he just kinda, sat there for a while then got spit back up after the fight

And he got rezzed way after we merked him (shown in an old cutscene)

[chrome fog]

https://youtu.be/HN3fWKhtl8c?si=eTUI0__zKB85TE1h

And then like two years later in Arrivals or smth, I could also be misremembering
https://youtu.be/xh5arwBDj9I?si=8usA1wQO6FXUUeEB

[chrome fog]

But going back to this, of course we find out Rivne’s behind this fuckery, Petra gets concerned that further fuckery is happening within the Dreaming City, someone else announces that its gates are open to the Guardians for us to go into Riven’s lair and kill her for manipulating Uldren into all the shit that happened within Forsaken, turns out whoops! all part of her plan which was part of Savathun’s plan, and our intense desire to kill her paired with actually making it a reality gives her enough desire or will or whatever to cause the Dreaming City curse, as wished by Savathun

Give or take a couple things anyone can correct me on

[half vine]

Just started playing through all the champaigns. Can anyone filled me in on what happened between shadow keep and beyond light

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

Dova did a wonderful rundown of about all the seasons and expansions from D1 to now

[remote sky]

All my fault too, lol

[restive agate]

If not you someone would’ve asked but you’re good cookie so I’m glad it was you

[raw hazel]

Story trailer tomorrow…

[remote sky]

omg I'm a good cookie as confirmed by boop this is amazing 😊😊😊😊

[chrome fog]

I had been planning on doing so but Dova beat me to the punch lol

[little gorge]

I'm already overthinking the thumbnail

why is the veil there

[raw hazel]

I have thoughts about this, but I am waiting to see what the trailer shows.

[dim minnow]

The Vex could have been in Sol longer than that given the ruins left on Venus

[raw hazel]

🙏 Manifesting Traveler reveal… (but also trying to temper my expectations so I don’t disappoint myself)

[dim minnow]

And it took me 3 hours to do

[raw hazel]

It was quite impressive

[outer dragon]

You think we will get a personified version of the Traveler?

[raw hazel]

If I had my way we would. With the Light/Dark saga coming to a close it would neat to have her a secondary character going forward.

[chrome fog]

Morphing shifting humanoid form that has no real discernible features but nonetheless appears soft and benevolent, like a mother coming to congratulate and comfort their child

Can never accurately see the top of her face but her lips are easily readable, where her eyes are twin blue blazes blowing sideward are visible

The rest is white particles blurring in a swirl about where her head is

Got damn I gotta draw this

Also thinking similar shapes to Echo from Overwatch

[raw hazel]

Me shy twirling my hair as she causes me to violently hallucinate (she is very shy and can only communicate through visions)

[raw hazel]

(I may also steal this idea for drawing reasons as well…..)

People think plain ol’ human when I say I wanna see the Traveler-
Like, no. Make her strange, otherworldly even. As alien as you can get away whilst still being legible as a character.

[barren adder]

It's there discussion why the Veil is not sentient like the Traveller?

[jagged badge]

Do we know the Veil isn’t sentient?

[vestal summit]

What are the greatest feats of strength by guardians in destiny lore? The only one I can remember is Ana Bray who shot a golden gun that lasted for days and burned as hot as the surface of the sun.

[weak prawn]

I just got the super black shader!

Also what is the black stuff that gives u the shader?

[jagged badge]

It’s just a gag really, nothing to take that serious

[vestal summit]

Yeah, I think it's just the black heart model but sized down.

[jagged badge]

Do you want just raw feats attained by a Guardian’s own strength alone or?

[vestal summit]

Alone, and I'd prefer something that is similar to the example I gave with Ana.

[jagged badge]

Hmm

[outer dragon]

Shaxx backhanded Felwinter's head clean off his shoulders

[vestal summit]

Oh yeah, that's was awesome, I remember that.

[jagged badge]

Saint fought countless Vex in the Infinite Forest to the point where they constructed a Mind solely to drain Saint’s Light.
He killed that Mind too and carried on killing Vex until eventually falling

[outer dragon]

Shaw Han gave a platoon of Redjacks Golden Guns by doing what Warlocks do with Well only with his golden gun

[outer dragon]

He had help from the Guardian

With the mind

[vestal summit]

Iirc he did kill the mind even without our help but his light was drained and he couldn't recover it.

[outer dragon]

Yeah I'm dumb

The Guardian was able to distract the Mind and Saint didn't get drained

[vestal summit]

What the fuck?

[outer dragon]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-swarm

Shaw spots several Gladiator detachments redirecting to confront them. He pushes the bulk of his Light into his weapon, spreads its influence to reach the nearby Redjacks, and reignites his gun before touching the barrel to the ground and firing. The ground bubbles with hot magmatic Light; a warmth envelops the Redjacks as Solar flame imbues and empowers their rifles with golden power. Shaw directs the firestorm of golden Redjack rifles to incinerate every last charging foe.

You could argue that is just him giving them Radiant

But the use of the word "golden" would make me think it's more than simple Radiant

[chrome fog]

#🏆destiny-media message

The ping in the message didn’t work for some reason

[raw hazel]

I LOVE IT

if i weren't busy tonight i would draw my own

Tomorrow perhaps... After the story trailer >:3

[analog torrent]

Chronologically, what is the earliest mention of the City Age class system? So far I've found a Rezyl Azzir loretab pre-city age but that's all

Seems that there were no formal classes and then one day, there were. looking for lore from the transition period 🙏

On the Ishtar timeline:
Pilgrim Guard reaches the City - they're still called Lightbearers
Shaxx and Felwinter fight - Warlocks are a thing, and presumably titans and hunters

after Shaxx and Felwinter fight, Osiris enters the City - They're called lightbearers again

[eager trout]

Who made Cryosthesia 77k?

[lapis thistle]

Do you guys think that we will kill the watcher ?

[eager trout]

You mean the Witness?

Uhh...Eido and Sjur Eido are two different people, right?

[trim grotto]

Eido is Misraaks's daughter. He named her after Sjur.

[lapis thistle]

I actually don’t know

But I mean the witness

[eager trout]

Ah ok

Has Misraaks appeared in anything recently?

[trim grotto]

Only tangentially in a lore tab or two, this season.

[eager trout]

Can the Eliksni breathe on Earth's atmosphere?

[jagged badge]

Yes

[eager trout]

Then what's the mask thing they use?

[shadow warren]

What relationship did Mithrax have with sjur

[ember storm]

Ether most probably

judging by the fact dregs don’t have them

that or they’re just part of the normal helmets higher ups wear

[ember storm]

She was the first “human” to essentially treat him as a person and it grounded him

broke the language and cultural barrier which resonated with him

beforehand he didn’t really see much reason for either parties to interact, only seeing one another while killing each other

like that group of human prisoners Mithrax jettisoned out of an airlock because he was tired of his crew debating how to deal with them

Mithrax is still considered somewhat “young” by Eliksni standards, being born in the sol system

raiding was what he grew up with and his mother wasn’t exactly the pinnacle of maternal affection

Spider was also kind of there but it didn’t really matter

[trim grotto]

Ether!

[lapis thistle]

What you guys think about the best boss lore wise

[chrome fog]

Oryx has pretty good build up both pre- and post-encounter

[lapis thistle]

For me it was to be oryx or savathun

I still remember the meta gjallarhorn

[shadow warren]

I see

[lapis thistle]

Destiny got every dlc right in my opinion

[ember storm]

Fanatic imo

the comparison between scorn and guardians seriously fell off since forsaken released, but something about us literally being locked in an eternal struggle just spoke to me

[lapis thistle]

I still remember forsaken

[ember storm]

like, Fikrul essentially sees himself as the pinnacle of Eliksni potential and still owed everything to Uldren

[lapis thistle]

Man that dlc

Did something to me I can’t explain fr

[ember storm]

There was no power struggle or plans of betrayal

he genuinely and fully saw Uldren as the reason for his second chance at life and he didn’t want to waste it whatsoever

also he’s voiced by Matt Mercer

how am I supposed to hate him

[lapis thistle]

Ye I get it

He was great too

[ember storm]

even though it literally wasn’t even him, his nightmare showing up in haunted made me do the dicaprio point in my chair

also the fact they got his va back in the booth literally just to say “father?” and nothing else

[lapis thistle]

(Can we talk about spoilers where ) I mean it’s forsaken but still

[chrome fog]

If it ain’t been like a week since an expansion release its fine

(And also sometimes for weekly reset stuff just to be polite)

[lapis thistle]

I was just saying what happened in forsaken really changed me

[tawdry wigeon]

Hey so im a bit lost. Do we or do we not know if the gardener and the winnower were or are real?

[shadow warren]

The gardener is the traveler

I think there’s still speculation about the winnower

[tawdry wigeon]

I'm trying to figure put if the unveiling is mostly true or mostly things seem from different views

[shadow warren]

Afaik people are fairly certain the winnower is not the witness

Maybe the darkness itself

[tawdry wigeon]

Why tho? I know it is not the witness but the winnower is a thing no?

Like

Why mention it if it doesnt exist?

[shadow warren]

Could just be a concept

Or a symbolic representation

[tawdry wigeon]

Just a personification of the darkness?

[shadow warren]

But I imagine it’s something more tangible if the traveler is the gardener

Unless I’m wrong about that

[tawdry wigeon]

Hmm

Is the witness trying to impersonate the winnower? Or even take its place?

[shadow warren]

No the witness seems to have devised its own goal

[tawdry wigeon]

What did immaru mean when the witness's final shape is static?

But the winnowers is all about the strongest always being at the top

[dim minnow]

that's the Hive's thing

[tawdry wigeon]

Isnt the sword logic the closest to that the winnower believes?

[dim minnow]

the best way to explain what the Witness' Final Shape is is to look at the stuff you see inside the Pyramids

[tawdry wigeon]

Which means?

[dim minnow]

the Sword Logic does correlate with the Winnower's ideaology

[ember storm]

the winnower is not a real person

[dim minnow]

all cut up and calcified

that too

the Winnower itself is a metaphor

[ember storm]

all accounts of it are from unveiling, religious propaganda delivered from the witness

whether they truly believe that to be the nature of darkness itself or it was just a momentary manipulation tactic, it’s not what their agenda is now

[dim minnow]

and according to Entelechy, the Witness has ironically deviated itself from the Winnower

[tawdry wigeon]

I didnt think the winnower as a person but an existence

Like the gardener

I find it hard to have the gardener without the winnower

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh right right

[dim minnow]

reminder that Gardener was a title given to the Traveler by the Witness

the concept of a Gardener and a Winnower was invented by the Witness/its species

[tawdry wigeon]

Is the flower game part of the lies of the unveiling then?

[dim minnow]

more so another allegory

[tawdry wigeon]

And also of the witness is lying cuz they either dont know or they create their own propaganda, then how will we learn about the true light and darkness?

[tawdry wigeon]

Damn i see alright

[dim minnow]

True Light = physical domain
True Dark = Conscious domain

[tawdry wigeon]

Thats it?

Then who or what is the traveler?

If not the gardener

[ember storm]

the traveler

the origin is not important

even the witness’ species just found it lying there and it immediately starting cultivating

what matters is its objectives but also its potential to be exploited, which is what the witness is doing

[dim minnow]

Gardener is a metaphor for the Traveler

[raw hazel]

wife

[dim minnow]

the Traveler is benevolent (sometimes to a fault) and wishes to cultivate life

[raw hazel]

(that shall be my only contribution to this discussion)

[tawdry wigeon]

Why is the origin not important tho? If we know what it is we will know handle it in a good way.

[ember storm]

guardians origins aren’t important

also it’s sort of the entire reason the franchise is called “Destiny”

you make your own fate

you’re not limited by your past

here and now is what matters

[ember storm]

we already know its motives in detail

it’s objectively the good guy

there is no “what if it’s secretly evil”

[tawdry wigeon]

Sure i understand the objectives are important but whats the actual source of the power? A big ball of light flying through space giving life to every planet its stationed at?

[ember storm]

light is just a natural force in the universe

[dim minnow]

Primordial Light

[ember storm]

all living things have some inside them

the traveler is just the ultimate source

capable of giving more

[dim minnow]

and we will probably find out the answer in TFS anyways

[tawdry wigeon]

But its lore, without it i find a part of the story empty

[tawdry wigeon]

Ig yea

[tawdry wigeon]

Dang

[ember storm]

personally I find it a lot more interesting that the witness used to be a civilization that had the traveler’s gifts and every reason to be the benevolent people we’d like to say we are, but they just went in the completely opposite direction

they took the gifts from a silent god as a challenge and tried forcing it to bend to their own wills

they couldn’t just leave it alone and prosper as a species, they decided they were “meant” to rewrite existence

maybe the traveler has some complicated origin, but I like the idea that it doesn’t

it’s just some being that came into existing and doesn’t have any real connection to biological life, but it still wants to see it flourish

[tawdry wigeon]

I can agree with you here absolutely

Its super interesting how they became the witness

The problem with the traveler is that without an origin it just feels baseless

I like the fact that it goes around the universe helping planets to thrive

But at least for me, no origin makes it meh

Like

The witness knew how to get inside the traveler

That means that this specific knowledge comes from the past or something

If thats true then the traveler must have have some origin even the smallest and simplest one

[dim minnow]

well, we know it was tied to the Veil in some way

according to Osiris, they were possibly a singular thing at one point

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea something like that

Although if it was a singular thing, seeing how not good the interaction is, it was probably not a good thing right? But ig the things happening inside are caused by the witness

So nvm

[chrome fog]

The dichotomy of the Winnower and Gardener is constructed most entirely by the Witness, so who’s to say they were in conflict to begin with

[dim minnow]

the interaction is technically only really bad because the Witness is able to use it to enact the Final Shape

[tawdry wigeon]

I totally agree.

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea exactly. The veil is used in a way that its probably not supposed to happen

[chrome fog]

There are also some entries from I believe from Alpha Lupi which insinuate that the Witness is a “false sister”, further solidifying the narrative that the Witness is trying to elevate or take the place of “gods” because it believes it knows better

[tawdry wigeon]

Very interesting. Hasnt he already become a god tho? Nothing so far can beat him solo

Lore wise ofc

[chrome fog]

From the power it holds and what it is capable of, yes you could say it is a god; it is also very much a very pathetic and miserable entity who has no business making such large decisions that affect all reality as we know it. A thing of despondency and arrogant self-righteousness that should never have been given power.

[compact sky]

Destinypedia talks about Saint-14's other names, one being The Violet King but I don't really know where the name comes from

which lore book is it?

[iron mortar]

@trim grotto are there pieces of lore mentioning how the humans of the last city feel about neomuna

You think the humans of the last city are mad of the idea of how there is a hidden city which let them also die/nearly die for centuries and those to not help them when being nearly killed by the fallen, the hive, and the cabal

And you would think some humans may move to the neomuna because it seems more advanced of a city than what is in the last city

You think this is an odd addition to the lore as alt human races like the awoken came back to protect humanity even though they had the distributory

[chrome fog]

Quick Tip: if Destinypedia claims some random bullshit just enter in the phrase or whatever mentioned into Ishtar Collective’s search to see if it pops up in an entry

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/vi-hand-to-hand?highlight=violet+king

[compact sky]

ty

[chrome fog]

In fairness the Awoken had returned relatively (keyword) shortly after the Collapse and had integrated into Earth’s populaces, whereas Neomuna had the ability to observe what was going on back at the home planet and recognize how the Warlords were taking advantage of both the ruined state of Earth and their newfound abilities, and thus made sure to sever connections with Earth to ensure these Warlords couldn’t come to Neomuna and conquer the place.

Which is fully in their right, if you saw magic super beings taking over small portions of Earth and none making an effort to really support the non-Lightbearers they were ruling over, you’d also probably shut your gates and erase any trace of your existence because why risk them coming over and taking over your shit too?

[iron mortar]

But what about after the creation of the last city and the removal/near existence of Warlords

[chrome fog]

They’d already secluded themselves long before that point

[ember storm]

what if awoken were chartreuse

[iron mortar]

I think it is cruel even after the guardians were properly formed and shown as a force of good they chose to leave earth during it's darkness moments

[iron mortar]

In addition did any humans choose to leave to neomuna

[chrome fog]

Again they wouldn’t have been paying attention because they had settled in and prepared for total seclusion prior to the formation of supportive Lightbearer groups; its a misfortune of pretenses but nothing inherently malicious

[chrome fog]

The most advanced human settlement that hadn’t been totally wrecked that also has a credible threat constantly marching upon their borders whilst the rest of the solar system is embroiled in conflict and magic fuckery? I imagine some individuals might have found the seclusion claustrophobic but it is possibly the best place to be living in within the Sol System up until Lightfall

[trim grotto]

Not much at the moment, no. Though Empress Caiatl, of all people, states what I'm sure is a common opinion to Jisu.

[trim grotto]

Ah, well that's as simple as it is disappointing. They secluded themselves to the point of such ignorance that they didn't know Guardians - as opposed to Warlord Lightbearers - existed.

They remained wilfully ignorant.

[iron mortar]

Is there a lore tab telling this, because if that was the case why didn't they attack the guardians when they arrived to neomuna

[trim grotto]

Because we weren't aggressive and killed the Cabal they were actively being invaded by.

We offered our aid immediately.

[trim grotto]

And yes, there are multiple. It's their entire shtick, after all.

I might not grab them though as I'm on a lunch break at work and I don't recall the exact entries by name

[dim minnow]

going off on a bit of a tangent here, but do you guys think that Neomuni dress like this?

[trim grotto]

Do you not?

[ember storm]

I think it’s just a hodgepodge of anything and everything they pull from their archived history

[dim minnow]

I mean, Lightfall design-wise is meant to be based on 80s sci-fi

[ember storm]

sure but I think it’s funny if you have some people in suspenders in slacks and then the neighbors two doors down are in full kimono

[dim minnow]

I mean, I mainly suggest this idea as a joke, but it would be hilarious if we finally see Neomuni leaving the cloudark and we find that this style of attire is standard for them

[trim grotto]

"People here have been hearing scary stories about Earth Warlords since they were kids. Changing minds isn't easy, but every bit helps." —Nimbus
This is how they thought of us ever since Stargazer returned

They still call us that now

[dim minnow]

Neomuna looked at us once during the Dark Age and decided to not even check up on us once since then

[trim grotto]

Rohan: When I first realized you were from Earth, I remembered the stories. Immortal, Lightbearing warriors chosen by the Traveler. Like figures out of myth. But what do myths care about ordinary people? I imagined Warlords conquering Neomuna. Or gods crushing us underfoot.

[keen oracle]

Ive been wondering

Is nezarec technically the first to use some form of prismatic

Albeit an imperfect one

[eager trout]

Which does...?

[dim minnow]

it's a substance they need for nourishment/growth

also doesn't replace food I believe

it's an additional physical need for the Eliksni

[shadow crypt]

Is there any lore on how awoken people become techeuns?

[dim minnow]

there's some sort of training

Petra was meant to be one, but she turned to Corsair work instead after her sister and many others were killed by the SIlent Fang

[iron mortar]

I guess that confirms who is stronger

[iron mortar]

What is stargazer again

[shadow crypt]

What’s the sllent fang

[eager trout]

Why?

[dim minnow]

Cloud Strider who went to Earth during the Dark Age and deleted any files Rasputin had on Neptune

[dim minnow]

elite group of House of Wolves assassins

[dim minnow]

Ether is neccessary for Eliksni growth

[shadow crypt]

Who is sjur eido

[dim minnow]

think of it like this, any Eliksni smaller than a captain is malnourished when it comes to Ether comsumpstion

[dim minnow]

she was the first Queen's Wrath

[shadow crypt]

Like the first general of the awoken?

[dim minnow]

initially sent to kill Mara by her political rivals during her time in the Distributary, she couldn't bring herself to kill Mara, so they became a couple

[shadow crypt]

Sorry idk what that means

[ember storm]

it was a unique chemical found in the atmosphere of their home planet

[shadow crypt]

Oh

[dim minnow]

more like personal guard/agent of the Queen

[ember storm]

their species wouldn’t exist without it and so they can’t properly survive without it

[dim minnow]

Petra Venj is the second/current Queen's Wrath

[shadow crypt]

How’d Sjur die?

[ember storm]

it’s kind of a loose reference to how insects irl evolved smaller and smaller due to lowering levels of oxygen

[dim minnow]

during the Reef Wars, she was killed by the Nine presumably by accident

[iron mortar]

Did they die because of the short lifespan of a cloud strider

[ember storm]

Rohan was the first cloudstrider to be kia

[dim minnow]

yeah pretty much

[ember storm]

all others perished naturally (meaning they had time to train and appoint their successor)

[shadow crypt]

What do the nine even do?

[dim minnow]

any Cloud Strider dies from their augments after 10 years

[ember storm]

Nimbus couldn’t finish their training so things are kinda fucked

[shadow crypt]

Are they a villain or ally?

[ember storm]

they serve their own interests

[iron mortar]

@trim grotto oh I wanted to ask you what was your reaction to the witch queen reveal, I was screaming 😱 because it was crazy since it changed the books of sorrow by a lot

[dim minnow]

ally purely because they rely on us

[ember storm]

they’re also individual so one might be drastically different in methods and opinions than the others

[dim minnow]

I kind of already knew that the Syzygy was a lie for a while

[ember storm]

like one of the nine decided to aid Ghaul’s invasion of earth by taking out our satellite network, just to see how we’d fair in all our war

the rest didn’t exactly appreciate the notion

[iron mortar]

So are cloud striders are humans taken of the cloud ark then modified

[ember storm]

cloud ark is a network

it’s not a people

it’s technology that neomuna uses

[dim minnow]

actually it really prevented Guardians from foreseeing the attack

[ember storm]

that’s what the satellite thing was, yes

[iron mortar]

I meant like the sleep the humans are put into, when they are inside of it

[ember storm]

the opening cutscene has Ikora attempting to check their feeds but all connections were lost

[shadow crypt]

How did we not know about Neomuna all this time?

[ember storm]

cloudstriders aren’t inherently linked to the cloudark

And cloudark is not the natural state of neomuni

they’re normally all just walking around like normal

[dim minnow]

Psion electronic warfare units compromised the City's sensor perimeters and suppressed our satellite early warning systems (so thoroughly that they even maintained their failsafe signals until the last possible moment). An extraordinary deception program in the Prison of Elders, combined with relativistic projectile strikes against key sensors, blinded the Reef to a simultaneous attack.

that was the psions and such

the one member of the Nine made sure that the Guardians wouldn't foresee it

[ember storm]

The cloudark is especially used during times of trouble such as an invasion with a black fleet disciple ship landed directly in the middle of their city

Neomuni are just doing normal things otherwise

[dim minnow]

Did some agency, henceforth unknown, act to conceal Ghaul's approach from our protectors? One that shared with Ghaul some central motive—whether the destruction of the Guardians, the capture of the Traveler, or the apprehension by force of the abilities we call the Light?

If such an agency exists, capable of such totality and subtlety in its action, how has it concealed itself from us?```

[ember storm]

Cloudstriders are just kept off the cloudark at all times because that’s the point of their position

they take on heavy augments so they can serve neomuna’s interests at the cost of their own safety

[iron mortar]

Ooooh, so that explains a lot, I was confused why there was a city when all the humans are in SAO world

[dim minnow]

if you ask me, the Nine made it so Destiny 2 would release on a Wednesday

[ember storm]

wouldn’t D2 technically start on a Tuesday though

iirc our guardian is flying through a timezone where it’s daytime

[iron mortar]

So all the humans were put into the cloudark network to protect them from death by cabal (and save Bungie render time)

[ember storm]

then when we get to the city it’s night

[ember storm]

I mean

Bungie has no issue having a bunch of static human models mingling about

[dim minnow]

D2 still released on a Wednesday

[ember storm]

it literally would just not make sense for them to be in the streets

[iron mortar]

I was making a joke bro

[ember storm]

people have complained about it before as if it were an actual criticism

[dim minnow]

keep in mind that Cyade canonically died on a Tuesday which set a precedent that release date correlates to when ingame events happen

[ember storm]

Cyade

my favorite density character is cyanide sick

[iron mortar]

But that is a cool lore reason how the humans survive in danger, do they automatically get pulled into the cloudark

[shadow crypt]

Who were the first people on Neomuna?

[dim minnow]

Ishtar folk

[eager trout]

Then why are they all in the Cloud-Ark right now?

[dim minnow]

I believe they did it around the time of Season of Arrivals when the black Fleet was approaching Sol

[shadow crypt]

How’d we not see Neptune in our system?

Is it just savathun hiding it

[dim minnow]

Neptune was not hidden, Neomuna was

[eager trout]

What reveal?

[shadow crypt]

Sorry I meant that

[dim minnow]

according to Veil containment logs, the Vex hid Neomuna so they could have an easier time studying the Veil

also, the storms on Neptune make it incredibly difficult to find anything

[iron mortar]

That the witness lied about saving the krill, and how it was their only option even though the traveler was like right there

[eager trout]

So Nimbus right now is basically Obi-Wan Kenobi (couldn't finish training because mentor died). Let's just hope the next Cloudstrider isn't an Anakin.

[eager trout]

Ah, that

[dim minnow]

it owuld be funnier if Nimbus ended the Cloud Strider program for good

[iron mortar]

So the vex have kinda been co existing with the neomuni people

[dim minnow]

more like antagonized

[eager trout]

Really just trying to "rescue" the Vex mind in the Cloud-Ark

I don't think they have anything against the people

[dim minnow]

Soteria?

[eager trout]

Yeah

[dim minnow]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/swarmers?highlight=children

[frozen pawn]

Oryx went down into his throne world. He went out into the abyss, and with each step he read one of his tablets, so that they became like stones beneath his feet.

He went out and he created an altar and he prepared an unborn ogre. He called on the Deep, saying:

I can see you in the sky. You are the waves, which are battles, and the battles are the waves. Come into this vessel I have prepared for you.

And it arrived, the Deep Itself.

---

Oryx, my King, my friend. Kick back. Relax. Shrug off that armor, set down that blade. Roll your burdened shoulders and let down your guard. This is a place of life, a place of peace.

[dim minnow]

Soteria is an Ai made by Ishtar and Clovis using vex tech

[ember storm]

by all accounts it would be

the witness is the voice in the darkness

[frozen pawn]

this "the deep" is not the witness right ?

[ember storm]

it has clouded and presented itself as “the darkness” before

[dim minnow]

the Deep talks a lot like the WInnower which muddies things up

[ember storm]

deep has been used synonymously with darkness itself, but when it’s referred to as a sentient entity? things get muddy

the closest thing we have is the first meeting between the witness and Calus where it presented itself as just nothingness

through manipulation or pure misunderstanding Calus took that as a meeting with darkness itself

[dim minnow]

if you think the Neomuni and Vex are friends in any way, read this entry

[frozen pawn]

sooo, Witness is not "The Deep"

hm

[dim minnow]

can't wait to encounter Aesop

sounds like an interesting Vex enemy

shows more understanding of emotion that pretty much any other Vex

a Vex would be the last thing that would pull a "think of the children" card

[weak prawn]

Is the winnowewer like a person?

[dim minnow]

Vex do NOT have any concept of morality

[dim minnow]

an allegory

[ember storm]

it’s unclear

[dim minnow]

nor any concept of emotion

[ember storm]

probably will be brought up in FS

[dim minnow]

and such

[ember storm]

it’s safe to assume it’s not some new entity

[shadow crypt]

What’s the first episode gonna be centered around again?

[ember storm]

vex presumably

but I don’t think it’s actually confirmed

[dim minnow]

the fact that a Vex mind pulled up and tried to coax the Neomuni into servitude through an elaborate plot is concerning

[ember storm]

all we have is some vaguely goblin shaped device and the name “Echoes”

[dim minnow]

Vex, possibly on Venus

[ember storm]

personally I think it’s going to be more Ishtar or Maya centered

which of course would include vex but like

they’re an antagonistic force

[shadow crypt]

Maya is alive?

[ember storm]

not named mustache twirlers

[ember storm]

the vex copies

[dim minnow]

the real Maya is dead

[iron mortar]

I hope the vex becomes actually an interesting threat, I am guessing that Maya sunderash is gonna be made into a vex antagonist of some kind

[shadow crypt]

Oh

[dim minnow]

she tried screwing with the Veil

[iron mortar]

That is using the vex to become a god, or reshape reality

[weak prawn]

the vex aremade by the darkness right mabey they plan to do something after we kill the witness

[iron mortar]

We don't know

But I don't think so

I think they are a by product of light and darkness

[dim minnow]

Aesop sounds like an interesting Vex enemy

[iron mortar]

Aesop?

[ember storm]

mentioned in neomuna lore

don’t really know how factual it really is though

[dim minnow]

Vex mind that killed a lot of Neomuni children

[ember storm]

it’s literally named after Aesop

plus vex aren’t really the kind to kill out of frustration and make distinctive threats

[iron mortar]

How?

[dim minnow]

if it is true though, then a Vex mind capable of comprehending emotion and morality would be concerning

[ember storm]

reportedly, they were in the cloudark at the time

and it severed all their connections

effectively causing mass brain death

[iron mortar]

That sounds like an awesome antagonist

[dim minnow]

the thing about Vex is that they have no concept of morality

good and evil mean nothing to them

[ember storm]

wouldn’t be the first vex to have an actual Greek name I suppose

but I think it’s the first that’s just an actual guy

[iron mortar]

We don't talk about curse of osiris

[ember storm]

not a mythological figure

[dim minnow]

the award winnign expansion

[ember storm]

you know for being named after something with lots of eyes

Panoptes distinctly had one eye

at least Argos had a lot

he’s the real final boss of CoO, honestly

[iron mortar]

But I think Aesop or Maya could be the next villain

I think Maya more since it has been alluded to in game

[ember storm]

season of undying 2

kill infinite copies of Maya for 4 months

[iron mortar]

Wait what

That was what the season was about

[ember storm]

season of undying was about the undying mind

spoiler alert, it died

[dim minnow]

in Undying, we connected a device onto a Vex Gate that forced a copy of the Undying Mind out so we could kill it

[ember storm]

more specifically, following the discovery of the black fleet pyramid in the moon that was actively contacting us, the sol divisive started raiding the moon in droves

[iron mortar]

That is what I remember

[ember storm]

we figured out a vex mind previously killed in D1 had returned to try and claim the pyramid

[dim minnow]

it was us completing GoS that caused the invasions

[ember storm]

I will be honest I don’t really remember the story for the season 5 years ago that had almost no story

the weeks muddled together

[iron mortar]

What was the point of garden of salvation

[ember storm]

end of Shadowkeep gives us orb

We follow orb

orb directs us to black garden

end of black garden is statue, same as where we get orb

[dim minnow]

the artifact we got at the end of Shadowkeep sent a signal that we followed to the Veil statue at the end of GoS

[iron mortar]

I remember that

Ok I remember that as well

[ember storm]

then silence for like 8 months but also were given Unveiling lore sent via email

[iron mortar]

But what about the bosses inside the raid

What was the point of them

[dim minnow]

Sol Inherent

[ember storm]

they’re just vex doing vex things

but they’re sol divisive so they’re worse than usual

utilizing darkness and becoming ugly

[dim minnow]

I presume they were meant to replace the Black Heart as a subject of Darkness worship

[ember storm]

from my understanding they were using the statue the same way Clovis used his as a source for darkness

it wasn’t as potent as the black heart so that’s why they brought in the Inherents

[iron mortar]

Vex raids are weird

I hope the vex get a clear direction where they are going

[ember storm]

vex basically fill in the villain of the week role

[dim minnow]

really hoping the Aesop story is true, because it can give us an interesting Vex villain

[shadow crypt]

So gorgons can just erase things from time?

[dim minnow]

yes

[shadow crypt]

Wow

[dim minnow]

but they are limited by what they see

Atheon and Templar need the Oracles to do so

[shadow crypt]

so if they don’t see something they can’t bazooka it out of time

[iron mortar]

Which is kinda annoying how they kind of just don't give the vex a clear direction and they are kinda just villains to shoot

[dim minnow]

can't erase what they don't know is there

[shadow crypt]

Any cool lore behind atheon?

[iron mortar]

@ember storm also so the neomuni people are usually outside but they are in the cloudark right now for safety, just clarifying

[dim minnow]

Atheon has control over the timestreams in the Vault

[dim minnow]

they have been for the past few years, but some of them do occasionally have to leave momentarily

[shadow crypt]

That’s how he teleports us to mars and Venus right?

[dim minnow]

it could be argued that it's not actually Mars, but Venus at a different time

like future or something

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

[dim minnow]

and the other is past Venus

[shadow crypt]

Wait was Venus one of the planets the Witness hid or wiped out?

[dim minnow]

no

[shadow crypt]

Has it been used recently in the story?

[dim minnow]

Mars, Mercury, Io, and Titan were all taken by the WItness

[dim minnow]

no

[shadow crypt]

dam

[dim minnow]

VoG doesn't count since the raid being in D2 isn't canon

[shadow crypt]

I see

[iron mortar]

Why have they been the cloudark for the last couple years?, why do some have to leave

[dim minnow]

they did so to remain hidden from the Black Fleet

and sometimes one needs to leave to do maintenance work

that can't be done remotely

also Cloudstriders

they stay out of the CloudARK

[iron mortar]

So the entire city has been a ghost town, as like what do you even do as a digital ghost in the city

[dim minnow]

eh

[trim grotto]

Well... it was kind of already there, if you read between the lines. Xita and Rhulk were new parts, but the Books of Sorrow always implied the Worm Gods caused the god wave.

—The krill lost. The Ammonite ravaged.++
++Our Traveler’s work undone.—

—Sisters of Aurash, open your eyes++
++Who made you monsters? Who summoned the wave?—
—Make peace. Join with me in golden renewal.++

In counterargument, Auryx, we ask you this: what has the Leviathan done for your people? Who gave you immortality and led you out of your prison? Who answers your questions about the universe with truth, instead of sermons?```
In other words
Leviathan: "Dude, who do you think made the wave? The evil Parasites!"
Worm Gods: "We're not going to answer that whatsoever and instead change the topic."

[iron mortar]

Were you expecting that the wave wasn't even real

[trim grotto]

It was real, the Leviathan itself has said so. What wasn't real was the reason, the origin. It wasn't the syzergy of the moons, nor the Traveler. Nay, it was the Worms, and the Darkness. It was the Pyramids during the Collapse that caused the wave on Titan that destroyed the Arcologies, for example.

[iron mortar]

Did the lore ever say why the krill, out of all the races almost blessed by the traveler, why the krill to use such tactics

The witness had disciples before, but he never used such crazy tactics that could blow up in his face

[dim minnow]

the Traveler was about to bless the Krill, the Witness would not have it

hmmm, I wonder though

the Witness wishes suffering upon races blessed by the Traveler

[iron mortar]

Uhhh, isn't it offering us salvation

[dim minnow]

was their transformation by the Worm Gods the Witness' idea of both recruiting a powerful underling species and a way of making them suffer purely because the Traveler was looking to help them?

[iron mortar]

Juicy stuff here man, this is some interesting stuff

[dim minnow]

what it considers salvation is very grim

[iron mortar]

Like what is salvation to the witness

[dim minnow]

it believes that the Light is the primary source of suffering

and by proxy, it considers the Traveler a source of suffering

though the Witness' idea of salvation from the Light was heavily corrupted by its transformation into the Witness

it holds a bitter hatred for the Traveler and whoever it blesses

so it makes sure that the races the Traveler visits suffer rather than a quick reshaping

[chrome fog]

Additional to what Dova has already said, it believes Salvation is the preservation of existence as a constant unchanging thing, to discontinue the possibility of suffering and pain by putting a pause on all things. However this also means that it would be preventing the possibility of improvement, of a better future of one’s own making.

[chrome fog]

And to a greater extent, why accept the proposed Salvation of a being who does not and will not attempt to take into understanding what you might consider Salvation and solely enforces its own idea of Salvation unto you? If it were Salvation in any true sense that we would consider, then why create a being such as Nezarec? Why enlist the help of Rhulk and allow him to commit the atrocities he had? Why orchestrate the formation of the Hive as we know them and set them off on the rest of existence?

[iron mortar]

Do we have a good idea of what traveler did to repel the witness in the collapse, it seemed effective as the witness could not find the traveler for centuries, however if the hive were still in the solo system and oryx came by, how did the witness not know where the traveler was??

[naive raptor]

@dim minnow Have you stopped hating Petra? Is that why your name is new?

[iron mortar]

What was the witness doing for the centuries that followed the collapse, if he had followers who knew where it was, and one of their corpses was in the moon

[chrome fog]

https://youtu.be/LskuE0AJ2qA?si=7VRrqXdMCm1zVxtM

[chrome fog]

For Nezarec: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/conditional-finality
For Rhulk: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/resonant-fury-bond

Also *it

The Witness was completely aware of the Traveler’s presence - it has been reiterated many times in the lore that this is the Traveler’s Final Stand, the Traveler had also fallen into deep slumber repelling the Pyramid forces - and even set up the Black Heart to both further suppress the Traveler to prevent its recovery as well as serve as a tracker for the Traveler’s total recovery, because if those the Traveler had blessed had become capable enough to destroy the Black Heart, the Traveler would have at that point recovered enough to once again threaten the Witness’ plans

[chrome fog]

We still hate Petra’s guts in this channel, Dova just followed their whims #📚lore-discussion message

[iron mortar]

But what prevented him from just going to the sol system and acting upon the final shape, why not leave pyramid ships in the system to stalk around it

Or why doesn't he stay in the system, and let the pyramid ships and disciples look for the veil to act on the final shape

[chrome fog]

It needed the Veil, which in the Conditional Finality loretab mentions Savathun stole it and hid it away, which we learned was to Neomuna

And then coincidentally Neomuna also cut itself off from the rest of the Solar System and remained hidden from everyone else until Lightfall

Their seclusion has fair grounds as to why they feared Lightbearers as the Warlords were a damning portent for those who’d abuse their Light abilities

[iron mortar]

But why did he and pyramid ships leave the sol system

Why not stay in it just to keep a better watch on the traveler

[chrome fog]

It literally surrounded the entire Solar System, where was the Traveler gonna go

Can’t go nowhere because fuckin Pyramids abound the border of the Sol System

[chrome fog]

End of this cutscene had a fuck ton of pyramids revealed at the end

[iron mortar]

So long story short, the witness knew where the traveler was, and left the system to look for the veil because savathun hid it

[dim minnow]

I haven't forgiven her

she claimed that she had better things to do than helping me find Archie

[chrome fog]

Yes. Like its pretty clear where the Traveler is and it had been tracking the Traveler for untold millennia

[iron mortar]

Why not return to the system when we killed oryx? And kill all the guardians

[chrome fog]

This is a fairly substantial number of nigh invincible ships that only the Traveler can really reliably take down and even then at a slow pace, one by one

[hollow hinge]

Because it still doesn't perceive us as a legitimate threat

We're simply a powerful annoyance

[chrome fog]

Consider the beginning of Arrivals and the beginning of Beyond Light. We were clueless as to what the Darkness even really was aside from It Bad, didn’t even really know who or what the Witness was or the Winnower until literally Season of Arrivals. Rushing immediately to take down a fairly weak Traveler and making it known that it is the enemy soul be effective and reducing any resistance, but also why not convince the Traveler’s protectors, its Guardians, not only of your cause but also straight up help you? While none of this really came to pass, like its fairly notable that at this time, the player base had been reconsidering if the Traveler really was all for us and questioned if it had some ulterior motives.

Fuck, like this was peak “Shadows of Yor but fr let’s do it” sentiment in the broader player base

[hollow hinge]

Playerbase perhaps, but story wise we had no reasons to distrust the traveller until WQ

[chrome fog]

Did Zavala not literally have a crisis of faith in the Traveler over the spreading use of Stasis?

[raw hazel]

Further amplified by the events of Witch Queen.

[dim minnow]

also fueled by the idea that the Traveler may have tried to leave us during the Collapse

but then we got the end to Seraph which fully cememnted the fact that the Traveler is with us

[chrome fog]

Hell, the Whispering Slab was released in Arrivals, Drifter had only just been letting go of his paranoia and deciding to really trust that we might be able to actually do some shit instead of putzing around for a silent god

[hollow hinge]

Don't remember that personally.. just his reaction to the lucent hive

[chrome fog]

Bungie plays around with player base sentiment being reflective of that of the in-universe sentiment

[dim minnow]

the crisis really got pushed by Haunted

[hollow hinge]

Yes which is post WQ lol

That has nothing to do with Stasis

[raw hazel]

Somethingsomething "They would replace their Ghosts with Pyramids if they coudl"

[chrome fog]

Then play the campaign again
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/stranger-in-a-strange-land-speak-to-commander-zavala

[hollow hinge]

That is not a crisis of faith due to Stasis lmfao

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/quest-defender-of-light-dark-priestess

[hollow hinge]

Still not a crisis of faith.....

It's him being anti-darkness

Understandably with our lack of understanding of it at the time

[chrome fog]

Aside from that the use of Stasis was contentious all the way through Splicer, to which members of the City still were cautious and fearful of its usage, as demonstrated in the loretab where one guardian dispersed the lynch mob about to kill an Eliksni who didn’t know better

And also I don’t care what contrarians think

[unreal bison]

Rasputin seems to be super advanced tech humans created during the goldern era.
What other technologies from other races do you think can compete with the level of of tech.

For me cabal has some insane underated tech

like the levithan has 2 stars lol

and the cabal have not been touched by the traveler and light...

[chrome fog]

Rasputin was not derived from humans directly, he was an AI that was developed into a solar system defense array and taught by Ana Bray into developing personhood; I’d say Splicers are pretty advanced, Eliksni reached higher technological advancements than humanity had and whilst that had degraded slightly with time, their capabilities are not to be underestimated

Though more impressively from the Cabal I think was the Almighty, effective in how it can destroy solar systems using the central star to power its weapon

[unreal bison]

and i guess it goes without saying the Vex tech...

[trim grotto]

ahhh i am home

what lore are we lore'ing

[raw hazel]

the bone variety

hand them over

[trim grotto]

nevah

[raw hazel]

You obviously don't need them all

You can spare some

:3

[trim grotto]

you've got to earn them

[raw hazel]

This better not be a vendor track...

[worldly river]

Shame that cutscene where Nimbus takes out a Pyramid ship with a rocket launcher was a scam

That tech would be really goddamn helpful right about now

[next bobcat]

nimbus did what now

[jagged badge]

‘Twas in one of the Lightfall trailers

[next bobcat]

Damn

[jagged badge]

Nimbus shoots a rocket launcher at this very small Pyramid and it actually impacts

Unlike every other time we’ve shot at a Pyramid

[next bobcat]

I feel like the main reason people didn’t like nimbus was because they were just a worse fynch

Rohan died, they were sad and stuff and then just “let’s go shoot some vex yeah!!”

[jagged badge]

The point was that Nimbus was unequipped to deal with their grief and tried to distract with humour. Unfinished Business was about them learning to come to terms with it, which in turn helped Osiris come to terms with his grief for Sagira

Maybe the execution wasn’t the best for everyone but still

[willow dagger]

who got executioned?!

@trim grotto ??

[willow dagger]

Scam how? Confus?

[jagged badge]

It was in the trailer but not a moment actually in Lightfall

[jagged badge]

Wdym?

[willow dagger]

^

[jagged badge]

Oh, I mean how Bungie did it

That storyline and how they represented it and the themes and emotions and whatnot

[willow dagger]

Oooohhh lol I thought someone was killed

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-lightfall-shadow-legion-gif-26564157

Tiny pyramids

[restive nymph]

Yup those ones

[worldly river]

Not even that it wasn't shown but there's absolutely no indication it's even possible whatsoever

It's one of those early concepts that clearly got scrapped when they seemingly did story rewrites

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh yeah absolutely agree with you on this one. Pathetic indeed but powerful nonetheless

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-lightfall-the-witness-darkness-pyramid-gif-27216798

I think pyramids can be damaged by usual firepower, like the cabal and their sats

Atleast that one statue

[restive nymph]

Wait if the pyramid from the beginning cinematic of lightfall got damaged by the traveler beam

Then the new exotic heavy trace rifle by logic could break a pyramid

[empty fern]

Probably yea

Kinda

It’ll be like 0.1% of the travelers actual beam (atleast for larger pyramids)

[willow dagger]

Why his eyes go big

[empty fern]

Cause

He’s an alien

[willow dagger]

Octopus man

No bc he looks and an aquatic water mammal

[empty fern]

[analog torrent]

@blazing crown season recap

Scroll up a bit to start at defiance

[ruby pivot]

alright put your bets who will die in this upcoming tfs dlc/seasons

mine is either saint,osiris or mara

[analog torrent]

Saint and Osiris have earned their happy ending I think they’ll be fine

Mara on thin ice

[ruby pivot]

hmm i am thinking drifter or eris too

we literally have forgotten failsafe for several season now tho

so she might be one as well

[analog torrent]

Nuh uh neither of them are dying before moonrat becomes canon

[ruby pivot]

i mean we didnt expect amanda to die

unless there were signs i was not aware of

[empty fern]

Why we killing off characters?

[ruby pivot]

i mean its a war against the witness

[fading root]

anyone got a good lore video

[analog torrent]

Meromorphic’s audiobooks of the lorebooks are great
He does a fantastic Rhulk and Felwinter voice; I haven’t listened to anything else yet though

[ember storm]

none of these characters are on the final shape poster and the episodes are all going to be after the witness is dealt with

[still bay]

Nah watch how cayde can't leave the traveler so he has to stay there

[ember storm]

somebody’s got to stay in destination vendor hell

remember what happened to failsafe

[jagged badge]

Eris is the only one who can escape destination vendor irrelevancy

[steep abyss]

I stopped playing last year shortly after Lance Reddick died and that one lady from the tower hanger who sells sparrows and ships died. Am I supposed to care about this big alien whale story or eris morn turning into savathun? Cuz I've been avoiding doing those missions like the plague lol

[fresh zephyr]

This isn't the first time someone has asked probably, but it's time.

What are the tree things when a Disciple or Tormentor dies?

Because there's lore about Rhulk and his regerative abilities right? So I presume the Witness has this Scenario B where they will return over time

[jagged badge]

Eris didn’t turn into Savathûn

But Eris becoming a Hive God was immensely important and cool af

I guess you don’t have to be interested in it but she is a very important character and that was a very big moment in her development and journey

[empty fern]

Hive lady became hive lady

[analog torrent]

I've been reading all the lorebooks so I can put them in chronological order; just finished y2, can anyone check that they're in the right order 🙏
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YMVBaQS1BvlSl_A5EF83OufEIBjl70TuHoLGtioXpl0/edit?usp=sharing

[fresh zephyr]

Agreed. She also finally did as she said she would many years ago and brought ruin to Savathûn

Saladin hasn't got his revenge...yet

On Forges Pledge, he was super pissed about the Osiris thing

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/forges-pledge

[ember storm]

we should have a sign up sheet for who gets to go over and kill Savathun repeatedly to relieve years of trauma

[chrome fog]

Rasputin tried and the got his shit wrecked, to the point he was barely alive and needed to recover by reconstituting parts of his program with his subminds

[empty fern]

Neat

[chrome fog]

The whale eventually tells us why the Witness is a punkass bitch, and most of the seasonal stories are us doing what we can to get to the Witness and kick its ass for what it’s done

[empty fern]

(Smells a little biased and shortened)

[chrome fog]

As much as I’d want to advertise the other seasons I know that it’s not entirely going to be what they’re looking for considering the original message

[analog torrent]

Pretty neat how Confessions ends with "All things end" but in the same season, the lorebook Nothing Ends drops

[little gorge]

guys...

[cold onyx]

Uh wtf was that trailer

[trim grotto]

a trailer is a video put together to build excitement and hype for a product being released

you're welcome

[cold onyx]

Can I spoil here

Or no

[heavy vortex]

It’s a trailer, so yes.

Also did Ikora just sacrifice herself

[cold onyx]

Did they tease Zavala betraying the vanguard

[heavy vortex]

That’s not really betraying

[trim grotto]

Well, Ophiuchus seemed fine
So she was probably just made angry

[heavy vortex]

Yeah but her nova bomb was awfully close to herself and Ophi lmao

[cold onyx]

Bro Zavala joining the witness

[trim grotto]

naaaah she'll be right

[versed orbit]

looks like he's being manipulated

[cold onyx]

Honestly the first time in a long time I’m worried about who lives and dies

[heavy vortex]

When the main antagonist who’s been trying to manipulate us since like, year 3 of D2 finally gets to manipulate someone

[little gorge]

honestly i think it's too early to tell anything about that

[versed orbit]

i hope a good few die ngl

[little gorge]

the zavala thing seems pretty clear tho

[cold onyx]

Bro did they just break earth

[heavy vortex]

Nah Zavala is gonna be rescued with the power of friendship and family

Let’s be honest

[little gorge]

they've been setting up his whole character arc of being in a bad place mentally for years now

[trim grotto]

just need some superglue

[heavy vortex]

I also don’t see why they’d recast him for a single project

[little gorge]

that's literally the lego movie

[versed orbit]

also 🧎‍♂️

[trim grotto]

To be fair, it's a very big project

[raw hazel]

I NEED THE EXPANSION SO BADLY AAAAAAA

[little gorge]

because it's the last expansion and he's one of the most important characters in destiny

he can't just not be there

[raw hazel]

AAAAAAAHHHH

[heavy vortex]

I mean, development and content wise it’s about the same as all the previous, it’s a big project for sure, but I think it’s a wasted opportunity not* to do more with it

[gentle geyser]

No its not

Its quite literally the end of this era of destiny

It could not be more important

[heavy vortex]

Did you not read what I said

“It’s a big project for sure”

[gentle geyser]

Then why bring it up

They couldn’t have just killed him offscreen or left him out

[heavy vortex]

I’m not even going to waste my time answering a question that could be answered by reading our messages

Next

[cold onyx]

Th gameplay trailer makes it look like a epic shooter but the launch trailer makes this look scary and a war traailet

[versed orbit]

it'll be an epic shooter

as always

[cold onyx]

The launch trailer is gonna be pointless

[little gorge]

it'll be an epic shooter gameplay wise because that's what destiny is

[heavy vortex]

What

How will a launch trailer be pointless

[little gorge]

the story can be whatever

[heavy vortex]

It’s marketing, and it’s working

[sleek matrix]

God soma of ya all are so stupid lol

[versed orbit]

pointless promotional material smh

[little gorge]

the launch trailer is literally a part of the story

[sleek matrix]

It's to hype up the launch

It's litteraly called a launch trailer

[little gorge]

these are scenes from final shape, so no, final shape will actually be like this

[open monolith]

but it's cutscenes from the literal campaign lol

[sleek matrix]

Yes

It's parts of scenes

[gentle geyser]

Because they would have to rewrite the entire dlc if they didn’t

Simple as that

[little gorge]

literally the only thing which won't be in the campaign is the song

[versed orbit]

what

[open monolith]

what

[gentle geyser]

The cgi in the trailer is using in game cutscenes

[heavy vortex]

I wouldn’t mind listening to Billie eilish while the witness tries to kill off the human race

[versed orbit]

well yeah

[gentle geyser]

So what are you calling it pointless promotion

[chrome fog]

Oh fuck it's literally fucking up the Earth damn- VEILED LADY??!?!

[gentle geyser]

Veiled lady 👉👈

[chrome fog]

VEILED LADY

[versed orbit]

maybe scroll up a bit and try piece it together yourself

[heavy vortex]

Also the witness showing Cayde’s death?

Cool

[sleek matrix]

Also

Who is the veiled figiure

[heavy vortex]

Me

[sleek matrix]

[heavy vortex]

Jk, it’s @raw hazel

[gentle geyser]

Your argument is automatically just wrong because Zavala as a character is extremely important right now and the voice actor passed which shockingly wasn’t expected

[vestal summit]

Glad to see this channel caught fire instantly upon the release of the trailer.

[versed orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/waltz-shrek-smile-meme-look-stare-gif-7854036537860693248

[civic scroll]

I rewatched the trailer and can't find that 🤔

[chrome fog]

Gonna put a stake in this and ask both yall to stop

[gentle geyser]

Good question

[raw hazel]

:3

[open monolith]

when cayde stands over his body covered by the vanguard flag or whatever it is

from the forsaken cutscene

[civic scroll]

Oh, it's his body ?

[chrome fog]

Just a pile of random bones you've collected vaguely in the shape of a woman

[civic scroll]

I thought it was the player's

[open monolith]

yeah when our guardian talks for the first time

[chrome fog]

In the Forsaken campaign we watch over Cayde's body covered in a similar way

[vestal summit]

I wonder if the veiled lady is just an illusion from the witness or the winnower.

[little gorge]

i think what bungie wants us to think here is that we died

[versed orbit]

there was that scene with lots of veiled ladies

[gentle geyser]

The glimmer pile in my inventory

[little gorge]

like the season of dawn thing

[civic scroll]

Yup that's exactly what I was thinking

[gentle geyser]

Thats caydes hand under the blanket

[civic scroll]

But yeah we can see what seems to be cayde's hand

[open monolith]

the witness is tempting all the powerful guardians to join it. maybe it's showing cayde his corpse to show how the light failed him

[civic scroll]

It used it as an example in shadowkeep's pyramid sequence so maybe

[little gorge]

it's a pretty generic glove

[vestal summit]

Yeah but that one is holding something, like a share of the traveller and is really tall.

[heavy vortex]

You can see cayde’s hand and why would it be ours? It would have zero effect on him seeing as we are literally gonna meet him. This is going to be the same case where crow relives his death, only this time it’s most likely the Witness’ doing rather than savathun with crow

[gentle geyser]

Yes, caydes glove

[chrome fog]

For the newer players probably yes, but for older players there's a clear callback to Cayde's body back in Forsaken
https://youtu.be/Ocy-Y5LGnOs?si=esETt__fMCquP-85

[civic scroll]

Isn't she holding like a mirror piece just to reflect light on his face ?

[little gorge]

can be both

[open monolith]

haha get blinded bozo

[little gorge]

obviously it's a callback to the forsaken scene

[trim grotto]

we can't reasonably assume it's ours - if it is, it's a random armour piece that could be from anyone, if it isn't, then it's someone else

it isn't that it cannot be ours but there's nothing actually suggesting it is

[civic scroll]

Well, to attract his attention

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-true-kramer-seinfeld-gif-6564373007119861775

[civic scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

[little gorge]

yes

[vestal summit]

Doesn't look like it, I think the shard is glowing with light.

[versed orbit]

veiled lady is just tfs vendor

[civic scroll]

When looking at it it really feels like it's juste reflecting some light

[heavy vortex]

I feel like FS would’ve been great to include Xivu again in the trailers

[chrome fog]

Yes, but with the naming convention of the various paracausal artifacts - the Shard of the Traveler, the Veil - it would be a pretty apparent parallel

[chrome fog]

That's more likely to be Cayde

[heavy vortex]

Cause doesn’t she still work for/with the witness or did that just get scrapped

[vestal summit]

Also, there's a scene of the sun blowing up in the trailer, wonder if we will revisit the almighty inside the traveller.

[little gorge]

idk if we know if she's still working for the witness

but i doubt she'd get into a fight with us right now

because she's basically mortal

[raw hazel]

||I don't think Zavala is making it out of this..||

[heavy vortex]

Well the witness can always give her some funny stuff to work with

[vestal summit]

|| Who will hand me bounties?! ||

[civic scroll]

Btw in this image of the earth it really look like how the vex terraform planets

[little gorge]

does it want to do that?

[heavy vortex]

How am I supposed to know, should I ask him or something

[little gorge]

it seems to be finalizing everything pretty fine without any help

[versed orbit]

this looks more like witness fuckery

[heavy vortex]

As ikora said, the witness is reshaping reality

[vestal summit]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Xivu abandoned the witness as well, after Savathuns betrayal and oryx death she had a crisis of faith and I think the constant L and being expelled of her throne world by a human would be a massive damage to everything she believes.

[civic scroll]

Yup but the left side really looks like how vex would do it

[little gorge]

that is very clearly the witness

[gentle geyser]

He doesn’t know

[devout vine]

TRAILER IS 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[chrome fog]

It’s also very interesting that the “Weight of [Zavala’s] suffering]” presents it removing taking away all of those he feel responsible for, inclusive of the Traveler/Gardener/Veiled Lady whom Zavala has, to this point, been having doubts with

[vestal summit]

Nah, that's more keen to resonance fuckery.

[devout vine]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-fortnite-griddy-zavala-destiny-gif-26547077

[heavy vortex]

I’m just happy we haven’t gotten a marvel line from Cayde yet

[civic scroll]

Wdym a marvel line ?

[versed orbit]

uldren you go right ikora you go left

[devout vine]

I love the concept of how the Witness truly sees us as a threat to the final shape's completion.

Tempting all the characters is such a cold aspect of the story....love it!🔥😩

[tidal blaze]

cringe phrases basically

[heavy vortex]

^

[devout vine]

Also...did anyone else here the thing the witness said to Zavala?

[heavy vortex]

Like, imagine cayde yelling at the Witness saying “you’re going to witness your end”

That’s peak marvel writing

[devout vine]

Allowing Zavala to let The witness lift the weight of suffering off his shoulders

[versed orbit]

yeah

he's still fucked up about his dead wife

[little gorge]

I'm giving bungie 1-2 mentions of the word destiny in this

because it's the finale of the saga

[devout vine]

It wouldn't make sense given what we know...
But perhaps he wasn't able to severe his connection to Safiyah properly in Season of the Haunted

Probably how The Witness is using his own mind against him

[civic scroll]

"You beat me ?
Well, it was my destiny to..."

[vestal summit]

Well, cayde already said "Fate" in the trailer, which is basically synonymous with destiny.

[devout vine]

Witness: "Guardians do not make their own fate......we do"

[heavy vortex]

It’s time to make our own destiny, says cayde after killing the witness

[little gorge]

that not a title drop tho

[vestal summit]

The raid ends, we go in to the final mission, we leave the traveller and arrive at the tower only to catch the sunset, our guardian removes their helmet and says "huh... I guess that was destined to be"

[devout vine]

A true ending to it all....

Or maybe after the story, the system isn't freed from its calcified state....

And only releases after killing the witness in the raid

[pearl basin]

yeah

[vestal summit]

The conclusion will be after the raid.

Iirc the last mission will only be unlocked after the raid.

[civic scroll]

Well, it wouldn't really be possible, because between the campain end and the day one, what activity could we do in a calcified system ?

[raw hazel]

"This is my destiny too.."

[heavy vortex]

And then the expansion ends with cayde sitting at the farm and vanishing away

Boom

Hire me Bungie

[raw hazel]

HRRRHGHGHRHGH

the fucking endgame moment with all the guardians showing

I NEEEEEED

[gentle geyser]

I feel like a very bold and plausible thing now is, we might not stop the final shape until the raid drops

[heavy vortex]

I need to see Randy

Only he can stop this

[vestal summit]

Ill call the 3 day period between release and the raid as "the final shapeing"

I really think this is shaping up to be the best expansion in destiny history.

I think Bungie might be in shape to pull that off.

[gentle geyser]

Just realized that this is probably correct because we see allies entering to fight at the later stages of the pale heart meaning the final shape cutscene will probably happen at the end of the campaign

[novel blade]

the veiled women
it sounds like the witness speaks trhough it, but then it also sounds like something else speaking trhough it, perhaps it IS the winnower ? or just one of the many bodies inside of the witness

[lost abyss]

There's a Warlock in that scene that we've seen from another pre-rendered thing, they were in the Vault of Glass during it. Can't remember where it's from.

[empty fern]

We got a bunch of veiled peps (when they grabbed Zavala) (and falling)

[novel blade]

thats what im saying

is it just loads of ways winnower talks through, or one for every damn body inside smoke stack

[empty fern]

Don’t know

[novel blade]

honestly was the only thing i cared for in the trailer

other than crow and cayde shooting in sync and sounds cared of mister touchy

[lost abyss]

I'm hoping for Cayde to personally pass the torch to Crow, it'd be a neat moment imo

[lapis thistle]

Bro Cayde showing up on the trailer was unexpected but I'm here for all of it holly

[outer dragon]

We don't kill the Witness in the raid

They said as much

[outer dragon]

What? They have only been showing him in the Traveler for months

[lapis thistle]

Bungie did the worst dlc in some years with lightfall, but with the final shape they are cooking

[outer dragon]

The very first trailer, the Wish ending cinematic

[outer dragon]

I don't think the Witness is the Winnower

[lapis thistle]

I'm a little lost right know with lore

But you mean the witch queen right?

[trim grotto]

No.

[lapis thistle]

I don't remember seeing Cayde 6 anywhere but you probably right

[outer dragon]

They use different pronouns when talking, the Witness is very blunt while the Winnower, specifically in the Unveiling book, uses adjectives and such

[trim grotto]

You might want to do the seasonal ending then

Because it's up right now

[outer dragon]

Have you done the season finale mission?

[lapis thistle]

I am doing the lightfall story but I will

[lapis thistle]

No 😞

[outer dragon]

Ahh, have you done any of the Season of the Wish story

[lapis thistle]

What I need to do to get that mission

[lapis thistle]

No

[trim grotto]

I'm fairly sure it's just available, sitting in the HELM. If it isn't, then Season of the Wish's story.

[lapis thistle]

I come back yesterday to the game

[outer dragon]

Yeah, you need to do all of the season of the Wish story stuff

[lapis thistle]

Ok I will

[outer dragon]

So you have 6 days (counting today)

[lapis thistle]

I have until final shape

[jade pelican]

Just go to the HELM. There is a holoprojector you can interact with to get the “closer to the heart” mission

[undone inlet]

Did y'all see what's happening to the earth in the recent trailer?

[outer dragon]

Well, till Monday at reset. Servers are going down for maintenance

[lapis thistle]

I mean lightfall take like 8 hours and then the season stuff is like what 12 hours (?)

[outer dragon]

They haven't done any of the season story

[outer dragon]

Shouldn't take you that long

[jade pelican]

I was free to play and still got the final mission

[lapis thistle]

So maybe if the season is reseting maybe I will do the season stuff and then I will do the lightfall campaign

[outer dragon]

Yeah, I would prioritize content that is going away

[jade pelican]

Would recommend that. If you don’t get the time, look up the cinematic on YouTube

[lapis thistle]

Ye so I need to go to the Helm and do the missions

Thanks very much

[lapis thistle]

I mean I don't know how long but until Monday is feasible

I think

[fresh zephyr]

Morning y’all

[lapis thistle]

Wassup

[jade pelican]

You have a full week. The story is fairly good. I’m glad they expounded on Riven’s lore

Also howdy

[lapis thistle]

Ye I also liked the comeback of Rivens

[fresh zephyr]

I’m excited for final shape to think about it I hope the titan vanguard does not join the witness but that trailer was scary in some ways

[lapis thistle]

Bungie is pulling all the memorybarys

[jade pelican]

Aight, imma go finish digging a hole. See yall

[lapis thistle]

Lmao good luck with that

[lapis thistle]

Ye but I don't see zavala joining the witness

[fresh zephyr]

Only one way to find out if he does whelp I’m ready

Because that trailer of the witness turning the people into statues was absolutely scary of how serious this fight is going to be

[lapis thistle]

Lmao

[lapis thistle]

Ye the beginning got me going the shot of the apple

Holly

[fresh zephyr]

And the witness in the sky shows us that what it is is a lot worse than me thought probably one of the scariest things I seen in d2 it looked like something not from this world you know

But I have a feeling it may get a whole lot worse

Because if think about it the witness could create a whole army

[lapis thistle]

My guess is that Bungie will do some of a plot twist

I don't think we suppose to win

Witness is literally a god

We just humans with imortal ghost