📚lore-discussion

[chrome fog]

A lot of what they've given us through the TWID lore tidbits has so far aligned with what we had already known

Which in this case, Nezarec's whole case being completely unknown allows for this information to technically be true

[dim minnow]

I was hoping that like with Atraks, Bungie would put in a lore snippt implying that Nezarec could come back

[frozen pawn]

in most of a the cases Rhulk really a very bad father xD

[chrome fog]

Not really like Nezarec is his kid, more like weird step-brother

[frozen pawn]

ehhh

"Created from Rhulk’s blueprint" kay

._.

[chrome fog]

Ben and Peter Parker

That's my argument

Anyways is that the Caretaker in the poster they made for Pantheon?

[frozen pawn]

yep

[chrome fog]

With the robes?

[frozen pawn]

yes

[chrome fog]

Freaky

[frozen pawn]

I dont know why they consider him god

but

[chrome fog]

I mean Atraks is there

And the Planets guy

[uneven canyon]

What is Crota’s oversoul?

[chrome fog]

btw I like the little "Of Note" section for the TWID

[chrome fog]

Reading this should help, @dim minnow might also know more #📚lore-discussion message

[frozen pawn]

Atraks basically undead (not godlike in power though)
The planet guys can move planet xD

[chrome fog]

Eh

[frozen pawn]

just kidding

[dim minnow]

hold on, lemme pull up one of the best excerpts from the Books of Sorrow

“What are you doing, my daughters?” he asked. He was afraid that Ir Halak and Ir Anûk were trying to go into the Deep, where only the Tablets of Ruin allowed Oryx to go.

“We are dying, father,” they said. “As many times as we can manage.”

“That’s adorably precocious.” Oryx shook out his new wings. “But why?”

“We propose a method by which Ascendant souls can be detached and integrated into a tautological and autonomous thanatosphere, which we tentatively term an oversoul. Oversouls can be stored in a throne world as a mechanism of enhanced death resilience. As a side effect, new refinements to our Deathsong may be achieved, moving us closer to a generally effective paracausal death impulse.”

Oryx brandished his sword. “Speak the Royal Tongue, or I’ll pin you up for Eir to eat.”

“If we can separate our deaths from ourselves, and hide them, we will be hard to kill.”```

@uneven canyon

[chrome fog]

Love the Books of Sorrow sitcom vibes

[frozen pawn]

“We are dying, father,” they said. “As many times as we can manage.”

“That’s adorably precocious.” Oryx shook out his new wings. “But why?”

[dim minnow]

hmmm, so maybe it's like a horcrux

sort of

[empty fern]

When the soul itself is a horcrux

[naive raptor]

WHo are The Architects?

[dim minnow]

just a gameplay joke, nothing relevant to lore

[naive raptor]

Who tho? Bungie? The people before/who created the Witness?

[empty fern]

The rocks

And maybe some of the waters too

[dim minnow]

the joke is that since you are dying from your own explosion (or crashing into a wall/the ground hard enough before it was changed), your death could be blamed for the way the area was constructed

hence why you were killed by the architects

[sharp osprey]

so was cayde the oldest of the three vanguards?

[dim minnow]

I'd say no

Cayde is probably City Age

[sharp osprey]

wasn't he around during the dark age?

oh

[dim minnow]

as far as I know, he wasn't

[sharp osprey]

i know the zavala trailer shows him reborn around the start of the city

[dim minnow]

Zavala was around during the Dark Age, but he had to have showed up sometime in the middle of it since he's Awoken

[dim minnow]

Haunted gives him some more backstory

[sharp osprey]

yeah he had a wife and son

[dim minnow]

he was mentored by Saladin and was certainly around during the Dark Age

[sharp osprey]

hmm

i didnt know that, thats cool

[dim minnow]

Ikora was Dark Age too as far as I know

but since Ikora is human she has a better chance of being rezzed before Zavala

[sharp osprey]

i ask because the original final shape trailer shows cayde calling ikora "kid", which could mean that he's older than her, but its more likely just cayde being cayde and i'm just reading too much into it lol

and btw i'm talking about guardian age if that wasnt clear

[dim minnow]

I know

[sharp osprey]

aight

[dim minnow]

I was referring to when they were rezzed

[sharp osprey]

saint and osiris are obv a lot older then i'd imagine

[dim minnow]

they're both Dark Age too

I'm pretty sure Saint is earlier in the Dark Age

[sharp osprey]

Saint and Osiris are probably pretty old because of the myths that have been created about them

[dim minnow]

Osiris is likely early Dark Age too

[sharp osprey]

and then you get the fact that Saint was trapped in the vex network for however long and yeah

[dim minnow]

I think Felwinter was a mentor for Osiris

[sharp osprey]

that would make sense i think

[dim minnow]

it was after Twilight Gap which was City Age

definitely a long time prior, but I'd wager that time in the Infinite Forest works weird

[sharp osprey]

thats what i mean, depending on how long he experienced being there, he could either be younger than if he was in Sol or much, much older

i guess yeah Osiris was doing vex shenanigans too so that probably applies there as well lol

do we have any lore on the very first Risen?

[frozen pawn]

"We're in need of a God killer." - Witness

I wonder... the god he want "us to kill" is the traveller or... there are other "gods"?

[dim minnow]

maybe just someone strong enough to stop everyone else from getting in the way

or perhaps the Witness needs a Guardian specifically for something

I'm just wondering how tf the Witness is supposed to try and convince us when we pretty much know for a fact that it did not care in the lsightest for its previous disciples

[hollow hinge]

Because absolute power corrupts absolutely

[frozen pawn]

Witness did care about his disciples, "as a weapon"

xD

[hollow hinge]

Well... we know the witness didn't care for Calus but surely it wasn't pleased with the loss of Rhulk for example

[frozen pawn]

yep

[hollow hinge]

and Nezerec back when he initially died. Otherwise it wouldn't have kept his remains

[frozen pawn]

Witness know Calus will lose, that why it get into our ghost in the first place

but I don't know if it expect for Rhulk to be killed

[hollow hinge]

It absolutely didn't

[frozen pawn]

sry for my English btw ><

some disciples are more expendable than the others

"—-And what do you feel now? Devoid of family. Devoid of The Regime. Devoid of Lubrae. What do you feel here, in our embrace, now that they are gone and you are left? What do you feel, my child?—-"

It also did a lot for Rhulk which earned his eternal loyalty

So I do think it does care for it's disciples, as least some of them

[dim minnow]

given what we know about it from Entelechy, I'm more inclined to think a lot of this was an act so Rhulk can make his own people suffer

and it also made sure it gained a loyal servant in the process

it was even gaslighting him into thinking that what he did was good

[frozen pawn]

Rhulk is a broken child in the first place

He showed disturbing signs of bloodlust and callous brutality, which ultimately caused his clan and family to fear him

But most uniquely, he values honesty immensely, to the point that it meant everything to him, he could not understand why the military regime in Lubrae was able to be honest about their shortcomings and misdeeds, while his parents had to lie to him about their motivations and actions.

What the Witness did is show him the lies and tell him the truth, for what is true... we may never know xD

[dim minnow]

also important to know that Rhulk was mortified at what he did at first

the Witness had to keep forcing him to relive what he did

[frozen pawn]

yeah, Witness spent a lot of effort on him, which earned his loyalty, can't say the same for poor Calus xD

[dim minnow]

more like obedience

and a lot f coercion

[frozen pawn]

yeah..

xD

[dim minnow]

then the Witness left him to babysit Savathun after he fucked up with the Ahslids

[frozen pawn]

Ahslids is like a test/lesson for Rhulk which he learned the hard way xD

[dim minnow]

that was probably onyl how Rhulk saw it

the Witness saw it as more: "Ok look I need you to recruit the Ahslids to our cause, but I need you to be as discrete about it as possible. Like don't make your presence known."

then when he messed it all up it was like: "HOW COULD YOU FUCK THIS UP! THAT'S IT! I'M SENDING YOU TO SAVATHUN, AND YOU AIN'T LEAVING UNTIL SHE IS PRIME DISCIPLE MATERIAL!"

[frozen pawn]

( which also a failure because Savathun didn't become a disciple)

now that you mentioned that, Rhulk doesn't really have any big feats unless you count he fucked up the Ahslids as one

ah he did kill the big worm

[dim minnow]

Xita?

because he really dragged her into his Pyramid and hooked her up to THE UPENDED, A TRIUMVERATE

OPPORUNITY

PRESERVATION

SALVATION

[frozen pawn]

xD

[dim minnow]

if you're referring to the Leviathan, he didn't kill him, but he did beat its ass and tore out his rib

both are feats that show a lot of strength

[frozen pawn]

yeah

[dim minnow]

and what happened with the Ahslids was more of their own doing cause dby Rhulk's interference

he pretty much unintentionally got them to destroy themselves in nuclear war

have you read the VotD raid armor lore tabs by any chance?

because this is where I got this info from

[frozen pawn]

yep but it was a long time ago, reading it again

[noble shard]

So lore lads, after playing through wish, It seems like Riven is alot more sympathetic to the guardian and co, Obv she's dead, but is there an angle where riven/her offspring might help us more?

[raw hazel]

They’ve left the door open that Ahamkara can be good natured and the like, and hopefully Guardians won’t be so trigger happy since we’ve been allying with former enemies for a whole now… Imo it’s going to depend on how Riven’s children will be raised.

The Ahamkara have a second chance, more or less, and I am hopeful it goes well for everyone.

[noble shard]

I doubt riven herself will be a big focus, considering she's a shade. but there's a bit of potential for her since she'll care more about the kiddos then messing with wishers

[calm granite]

I've always understood riven's relationship with us like calus', she enjoys playing with us and seeing us do some busywork around

[analog torrent]

By the end of seraph, who knew that Felwinter was the Siddhartha Golem?

[ember storm]

Ana and us

[knotty fossil]

Why are wish dragons naturally trying to be deceptive

Except for riven's mate ig

Or did I get smth wrong

[jagged badge]

They’re meanie weanies

[knotty fossil]

Interesting

[serene swift]

How did taranis like… survive, don’t ahamkara need to bargain and deceive to survive?

[knotty fossil]

Oh so they need to fool ppl to live?

[serene swift]

That was my understanding but it may be wrong

[knotty fossil]

Hm, might be, I have no knowledge about wish dragons

I mean he was different according to riven

But idk if that only applied to behaviour and motivation

[jagged badge]

He feeds from granting wishes still. Just…less so

[trim grotto]

Have an answer by example

With a wish that broad, an Ahamkara could eat her whole.

Instead, Taranis nudges weather patterns. It's easy to whip the wind up higher, let it pick up more sand. Till the growing sandstorm triggers the firebase's hazard alarms.

The Cabal soldier hurries back to her firebase, hunched against the increasing wind. Her squadron leader is unprepared and has no plans drawn up for indoor duties. It is a failure he will answer for. But until he rectifies his failure, the soldier may go to her bunk and read a borrowed novel without compromising her duty. Her satisfaction grows rich and, hidden in the piping above her bunk, Taranis basks in it.

His belly isn't full, but the sip she's given him is sweet. Nothing bitter in it, nothing sour, light on his tongue the way no other food has been. It is a good end to his first hunt: a good meal from his first partner.```
```Taranis grows more slowly than his age-mates. The sustenance he finds doesn't fill his belly like their hunts fill them. They grow in strength; tongues long, teeth fierce. They lose patience for a runt with overly delicate sensibilities. Taranis finds himself in need of a retreat.```

[jagged badge]

What do you reckon she’s reading?

Sun Tzu?

[knotty fossil]

D2 lore is crazy, I love it

[knotty fossil]

Written build guides by aztecross

[serene swift]

So he was really nice at the expense of himself, neat, and wholesome

[ember storm]

it’s just in their nature

Intentionally or not, screwing with people leads to more desire for things to be better, which can lead to more wishes

they’re like sentient monkey paws

[steep abyss]

Now I'm no lore expert and I don't really know everything that's happened in the story, but the ending of Closer to the Heart, that's a big fuggin deal right?

[jagged badge]

Absolutely

[steep abyss]

Wish I'd gotten into this game earlier and actually played it

Might hit harder

[trim grotto]

It's a D1 thing.

You can, actually, still play that.

[ember storm]

the idea that the vex can just keep making black hearts is kind of concerning

we had to go and kill the undying mind a bunch to make sure it didn’t happen

[hollow hinge]

Yes and no, the witness clearly gave them another one to slow us down or just completely stop us

[outer dragon]

Saint is very early Dark Age

[outer dragon]

I hate this saying because it is incredibly reductionist and misses the point.
Power doesn't corrupt. Power reveals the true intentions and character of a person.

[hollow hinge]

If you get absolute power then eventually you just get bored

[outer dragon]

The lightbearers during the Dark Age are a prime example of power revealing character.

The Warlords and Iron Lords are examples of power revealing the character of people

[chrome fog]

Someone before mentioned that the conflict between Ahamkara and Guardians as an unfortunate outcome of greed and refusal to understand either side, though now is a time that this new generation of Ahamkara are able to live without much interference or conflict with the rest of existence

[raw hazel]

Ahamkara were often greedy and manipulative because that was the easiest way for them to survive, but they were still capable of logic and being good-natured. Guardians have a duty of protecting others and seeking power to do so which the Ahamkara would and did exploit- But the Vanguard simply chose to wipe them out instead of seeking out an alternative because it was the simplest measure to do.

Now the Vanguard/Last City has spent time learning to be cooperative with a number of their former enemies, which hopefully extend to this new generation of Ahamkara. Where they can hopefully find a way to better feed themselves without resorting to old tricks.

(Also holding out hope we eventually see some of the Lucent Brood splintering to ally with us more directly.)

[hollow hinge]

It'd be a very forced partnership if it happens

Also, aren't we seen killing some of them in one of the trailers?

[raw hazel]

Hence I said eventually. The Lucent Brood, at least parts of them like the Lightbearers, are following Savathûn because they have no choice/have been indoctrinated into it. As for the non-Lightbearing Hive- It’s been shown that the Light can completely satisfy their worms.

So, ideally I would like to eventually see a number of the Lightbearers breaking free of Savathûn’s conditioning.

Like the Eliksni, like the Cabal, and hopefully like the Ahamkara it's not something that would happen overnight and would be something that both sides would have to cooperatively work towards- But it would still be nice to see down the line, nonetheless.

[ember storm]

requires more fynch voice acting so it’s a no

[chrome fog]

In fact I think they could have a great mentor on how to grant wishes without exploiting the wisher's desires in the form of Ahsa, whom herself has witnessed members of her own species corrupt themselves by engorging on the ontological concepts they fed on

[raw hazel]

I like Fynch tho :c

[ember storm]

bungie hates adding him

he’s now in destination vendor limbo

[chrome fog]

Give Fynch more lines I wanna hear more on his escapades with Ken

[ember storm]

never to be seen again

[chrome fog]

Give us a babysitting quest line for Ken

[raw hazel]

omg

I would love that

Take your Knight Lightbearer to work

But also for now VIDOC TIMMMME

[chrome fog]

Ken serving as a trial run for Hive Lightbearers to learn to break from Savathun's programming, but he's a little bit of a knucklehead so like both sides are watching him fumble hard just because 'He don wanna!'

Baby rage Ken

The other Hive Lightbearers wouldn't want to follow with the what the Vanguard is trying to teach them but like they can't help but facepalm at how badly Ken fails to grasp what is being taught

Finale is Ken going AWOL and finding some kind of big bad mcguffin, and both sides have to team up to gang up on it

[gaunt carbon]

wait vidoc 2?

[hollow hinge]

@raw hazel what's with the reactions? I'm not saying forced as in it shouldn't happen. I'm saying neither side wants to but they wouldn't have a choice

[raw hazel]

It didn't come across that way intially.

[raw hazel]

Also yeah, Part 2 of the vidoc, though this more gameplay focused.

[chrome fog]

Hally's proposition for future alliances/making amends with some other groups is meant for after the initial hurdle with extending that olive branch out whilst still establishing that faction as an enemy to fight against. Yes, of course there's going to be some way that we make that alliance that might come off as forced or from out of nowhere, but the focus is on the possibility afterwards

[hollow hinge]

Fucking read you doofus

I already explained I didn't mean that kind of forced

I'm more pointing out that there's no other enemy group we hate more than the hive and the hive hate us probably just as much. So it's gonna take an extinction level reason for us to put aside our differences for that initial partnership

If I had to guess, that's what we'll see in the Hive focused episode

[chrome fog]

One tone it down. Two we already know that it is improbable for those relations to be made, and the conversation we're having is past that point.

As Hally said, "Hence, why I said eventually"

If and when we get there, we're tossing some story concepts that would be fun to explore

[raw hazel]

I would take Ken out to the Ramen Shop

[chrome fog]

Ways in which these characters and factions could interact

[chrome fog]

Cutscene of Hive and Human Lightbearers crowding around the Ramen Shop to see how many times it'll take for Ken to properly eat a bowl of ramen

[raw hazel]

omg

[chrome fog]

Takes him like 10, 12 times to not smash the bowl into oblivion and a couple dozen more times to get to the point where he's lifting noodles into his gob, then he burns his mouth and get back to square one

[hollow hinge]

No, the initial comment that I replied to was (Also holding out hope we eventually see some of the Lucent Brood splintering to ally with us more directly.)
My comment was purely in response to that and you had to butt in. Don't tell me to tone it down when you can't read the context nor room.

[ember storm]

butt in?

it’s a public discord channel

[hollow hinge]

You butted in assuming what the conversation was about without reading it properly

[ember storm]

again there’s nothing to “butt in to”

it’s public

[chrome fog]

Then how about this proposition:
It would be clear there's a divide in the Lucent Hive between those who want to remain as they are and continue serving in Savathun's machinations, which would be very lucrative for them as they would still have the Wellspring to feed their worms and whatnot, as well as those who want to explore outside of the Throneworld and learn more of the Guardians, their fellow lightbearers. We have had examples of both in the loretabs that come from Sav's Throneworld, and so we strike a deal with her to allow those who are interested in her brood/forces to come over to Earth and partake of human culture.

[chrome fog]

And I'm not taking this from someone who refused to listen to another take on how Power reveals one's nature and is steadfast solely on their own understanding that Power can only corrupt. A significant portion of our journey to harnessing Darkness for ourselves is learning to wield that power with responsibility, so this very theme is countered by the messaging in-universe

[hollow hinge]

We don't hold absolute power lol

The quote is Absolute power corrupts absolutely

The first "Absolute" being quite important, but with your struggles with reading comprehension I can see why you'd fail to make that distinction.

[chrome fog]

Then tell me why the Consensus was formed. Why, even though we are for the defense of humanity, the people of the Last City did not want to be governed by individuals who may not face the same plights of mortality as they do?

[hollow hinge]

Can't be bothered with this chat since you just want to move the goalposts so

[ember storm]

anyhow

how about them vidocs am I right (haven’t watched a second of either)

[raw hazel]

I am looking forward to Keith David's performance

And just- Whatever the hell Zavala's gonna go through

[chrome fog]

I know the quote, I am aware of the quote, and the point of what H had brought up and what I am supporting is that power of any form will be used in accordance to the type of individual that holds it. Yes, it is tenuous and difficult to hold onto said power without abusing it out of desensitization and boredom, but it has been a significant point of the narrative that we Lightbearers are granted this absolute power of paracausality in the hopes that we would use it for good. And we did not always do that, like H said we have had the Warlords be demonstrations for how we abused the Light for our own gain, but there were others who used their Light responsibly and for the defense of those helpless to defend themselves.

"Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely" can be taken as "Unlimited power will eventually and inevitably corrupt you" which can and has been proven true in fiction

But it can also be interpreted as "Any power has the potential to be abused", which also has been demonstrated not only in fiction but in Destiny's own narrative

With that being said, it is a key point that the power that we hold, whatever amount of it that we have, must be handled responsibly and that it is through practice and reinforcement that we recognize the power that we hold and use for the defense and assistance of others as best we can

And as for the discussion Hally was having, yes we get it it's going to take some work to get to the point where we can have some sort of relation with the Lucent Hive and the Ahamkara and what not whilst rectifying the fact that some portion of their faction is still going to be in conflict with the Vanguard. If you would so politely read what Hally had posted before and that I'm quoting once again, we are proposing situations when we eventually get to that point in our relations that a somewhat peaceful interaction could be held, as well as some key points which would help assist in establishing those relationships

[raw hazel]

As much as I am aware that Destiny will always be a shooty-kill game- I have been really liking the direction they've been going with us allying with factions of former enemies.

And it is a trend I hope they continue with in the future.

[unreal bison]

i have a question, what is the point of the vex's simulations like vault of glass and black forest etc. If saint and other gurdians just ignored it what could it do? It cant do anything outside of the simulation and because they don't control anything paracausal. I just dont understand haha

[chrome fog]

They serve as prediction engines that demonstrate what the best course of action the Vex could take in their overarching goal to assimilate all reality into their network

[ember storm]

those aren’t really simulations specifically

the black garden is still largely an unknown, but the sol divisive use it as their base of operation and housed the black heart there

the vault of glass was a developmental facility

[chrome fog]

To which, paracausality is supposedly made to work around because their predictions are solely derived from all rules and aspects of normal physics/causality

[ember storm]

the black heart was paracausal, but still a limited imitation of the veil and only possible due to outside help

vault of glass was on track to becoming applicable to the universe as a whole and would be their perfect solution to any problem, which is why we had to go stop them

and even then it was only due to the aegis, a device built with vex tech and light

Basically, Vault of Glass was a scientific research facility where they were developing a superweapon

the Black Garden is where the sol divisive, a subset aligned with darkness, hide themselves and work on largely unrelated things to the rest of the collective

they dabble with the witness from time to time but both sides have no issues acting against each other whenever it’s convenient

[chrome fog]

I guess the corridors of time would be the best actual example of Vex using simulations for predictive action

[ember storm]

are they even really simulations at that point though

it’s basically just the sundial forcing the infinite forest to make it a walkable space

so the vex just spill in like mosquitos in an open window

[worldly river]

Lakshmi and Sundaresh on one of the new guns, interesting

Further convinces me we're going to see Sundaresh become more relevant as the Vex plotline kicks into gear

Shiro's on the Hand Cannon too, funnily his first visual depiction since D1

Not sure who this is, though- the wolves make me think Six Coyotes, maybe Micah? She did have a run-in with Cayde-1 when she was still human on Europa, but these characters who are significant to Cayde and I don't think there's much lore between them

Surprised none of them depicted Andal Brask, honestly, specially cuz he has been visually depicted before and was directly related to Cayde becoming Vanguard
His dying words were about losing that bet

[ember storm]

well the guns are based on Cayde

and we know how Cayde felt about Maya

there’s also a quote from him describing Lakshmi as being surprisingly talented at dancing, so some of those feelings probably bled over without him realizing it

[worldly river]

Chad-6

[ember storm]

Very chad to shoot at children

[dim minnow]

well what is the gun on the image?

[worldly river]

It's a Sniper but not one I particularly recognize

Looks rather like the Halo Sniper actually

[ember storm]

D1 snipers just looked like halo ones

[worldly river]

Looks like whatever this is

[vital lodge]

who is Tess Everis's uncle

[dim minnow]

Fenchurch Everis

[vital lodge]

is he dead

where is he

[dim minnow]

an artist/designer/adventurer

[dim minnow]

no

[raw hazel]

Funny Hidden Agent

[vital lodge]

I need to slap that man for causing his daughters sense of humor

[ember storm]

guardian and hidden agent

[dim minnow]

he is currently working as one fo Ikora's Hidden agents

[ember storm]

that’s not what uncle means

[vital lodge]

dont make me do the logic of a family circle

[dim minnow]

of course, he might not even be related to her at all

[ember storm]

it’s literally just niece

that’s not complicated

[vital lodge]

niece to meet you too

anyway

[dim minnow]

you see, Everis had a piece of silver that had a unique engraving on it which just so happened to also be on a piece of silver Fenchurch had

so they knew they were related in some way

Fenchurch then took to calling himself her uncle

then she started Eververse with Fenchurch being her main source of commodities

[vital lodge]

fitting that the eververse supplier is a hidden, so the guardians cant beat him up

[dim minnow]

whether he creates them, desgins them, or finds them out on his adventures

[vital lodge]

make him the final boss after the witness

costs 100k silver to do damage

he drops every exotic and craftable weapon in the game

[worldly river]

D1's habit of kitbashing weapon parts/attachments together is getting on my nerves right about now

[dim minnow]

D1 does it everyone hates on it

[vital lodge]

evolve to d2

[dim minnow]

D2 does it, and we get the best looking handcannon in the game, Epochal Integration

[chrome fog]

Insert the “flirting-vs-harassment” meme here

[worldly river]

Closest I can find to this is a blue sniper with, afaik, no attached lore from D1

It has a variant that calls it a Daito frame, that's all I got

[ember storm]

they’re just D1 models

[worldly river]

Yeah I don't think it's anything specific

[ember storm]

the hand cannon is the same base model that palindrome uses

[worldly river]

My chips are still on Micah at this point

Did see mention that Cayde's encounter with her as a human child was a repeated memory he'd have even after resetting, but it's weird they'd depict the Exo Guardian Micah-10 when there's little indication, far as I can tell, that they ever met after Micah became an Exo

Yeah it's gotta be, those wolves are the same as the Six Coyotes cloak from D1

[dim minnow]

has anyone talked about that one scene in the first vidoc where we can see swarms of ghosts coming from the Traveler?

because that scene is going to be 1 of two things

1. Flashback to the end of the Collapse
2. Traveler creates a new set of Ghosts

[chrome fog]

Potential 3rd?

• ghosts doing a Panda Village from Kung Fu Panda 3 and like share their Light with us in the Pale Heart to push back against the Witness

Alternative descriptor: Ghosts do a Great Spirit Ball

But also yeah I would really like that second option to happen, a new set of Ghosts that aren’t restricted solely to humanity or the Hive

[outer dragon]

Eliksni and Cabal Lightbearers when?

[chrome fog]

I am once again asking for a spin-off title with them so we don't have to put the extra stress of adding them into the main destiny game and shit getting fucked game code wise

[vestal summit]

What's the lore behind Warlords ruin?

[ember storm]

Ahamkara was slain by Shaxx a long time ago, then a guardian befriended its bones

guardian friend was then eventually killed by fallen, so as an act of revenge the ahamkara cursed them to become scorn

The Fanatic found out about a random army of scorn on earth, so he sent his knights to go and recruit them

meanwhile the ahamkara’s spirit rose again in the wake of it all

so we’ve got scorn, taken, and an angry ahamkara

[naive raptor]

Is Rhulk the same species as Nezerac?

[versed orbit]

no

[chrome fog]

Well…

The new TWID suggests otherwise

#📚lore-discussion message

And in fairness, as surprising as it is, it’s not wholly improbable

[gentle geyser]

I would like to point out what I said a few days ago, if destiny is going to continue past the final shape, lore wise and gameplay wise the barrier on what can and cannot be rezzed by a ghost might be lifted with a new wave of ghosts

Although

It doesn’t seem like thats what is happening in that scene

As they look to be coming from earth

[outer dragon]

It's more accurate to say Nezerac is an attempt at making a Rhulk copy

All Tormentors are then based off Nezerac

[empty fern]

Tormentor Prime

[naive raptor]

Does that make Rhulk a dread?

[outer dragon]

No, Rhulk had a planet he called home and is simply the last of his race.

Nezerac is Dread though

[naive raptor]

Until we made him become the last of his species to fly

(The cheese)

[outer dragon]

LOL

Could never get that to work
Just did him legit

[fiery copper]

I want to make a compilation of every misspelling of Nazraroc's name

[outer dragon]

Ima keep it a buck

I don't even try to spell it right

[chrome fog]

He made himself the last of his species, we made them extinct

[fiery copper]

It's quite simple you just remember that the A comes after the N but before the Z and after the E and then the R is between the A and N but to the left of the L

[empty fern]

NazeracL

[signal lotus]

Is there lore behind champions or are they solely a gameplay thing

[empty fern]

Think it was just witness empowered certain individuals (can tell they have the dread tendrils as the visual effect)

Mentioned way back in shadowkeep

Also, did the (Redjack) model robots always hum? How sentient are they

[trim grotto]

Literally no lore whatsoever, at all! They've only been offhandedly mentioned once by a bounty.
All we can work off is either dismissing it as gameplay, or visual storytelling suggesting Witness empowerment - from a time when the Witness and Disciples didn't even exist, so...

[trim grotto]

How familiar are you with Star Wars robots

Legitimate question, bear with me

[raw hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-there-are-you-gif-24137315

Like this?

[gentle geyser]

So sentient to an extent of being able to have feelings and personalities?

[trim grotto]

More on a general scale

Alright so

Star Wars robots are generally considered not to be sentient - like AI we are beginning to develop now, they can mimic what they see and interact with, and this begins to create a facsimile of a personality, unless they're regularly reset.

Frames are very similar to this, and indeed the Frames used by the Reef are reset regularly so as to squash these "personality quirks".

[gentle geyser]

Thats not necessarily true

[trim grotto]

that isn't the point i'm making

[gentle geyser]

I know but its a bad connection

[trim grotto]

Regardless

[raw hazel]

(Tbh even then SW droids are pretty apparently fairly self-aware- Though it's oft played to for laps but that's just me as SW nerd)

🤓

[gentle geyser]

They have full blown personalities based entirely off of their own experiences

[trim grotto]

So the Frames we have aren't strictly sentient, but they develop quirks and mimicries of what they see, such as the humming and whistling. Arcite and Dahlia are more extreme examples of this.

Also, if anyone ever tries to say "oooh Bungie ruined/never did the Frame Revolution storyline"
that wasn't ever a thing

it was a misinterpretation of a totally benign event

[raw hazel]

Frame revolution?

[trim grotto]

Arcite and Dahlia... hang on, I'll grab the line.

[empty fern]

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/ghost-scan-hangar-tower-2

Ghost: Someone's been trying to modify one of Shaxx's Redjacks! But all the interface history shows is access by other Frames. "Arcite and Dahlia", it says. Over and over. "Arcite and Dahlia".

[empty fern]

Also tower lines are insane
Tower npc 4: “what if we tried diplomacy. What if we let them have the traveler”

[trim grotto]

So, this line was misinterpreted as a revolution, unintended hacking

What this actually is, however...

[empty fern]

What is it mael

Type faster

[trim grotto]

[u.2:01] Not Dahlia? She’s a natural for modifying foundry gear. Her combat numbers are through the roof.
[u.1:02] You can fistfight Shaxx over it, if you want.
[u.2:02] Dahlia’s the last ‘jack standing, then. Maybe it’s for the best. New frames have trouble data-linking with her and Arcite. The two of them have been around since the beginning, and their heuristic systems keep rewriting everything.
[u.1:03] They watch her. She helps just by being out there.```

Arcite and Dahlia keep trying to share their combat expertise and data with newer Redjack models, but their systems are incompatible

[empty fern]

Neat

Wonder how many other tower inspects are in the tower (and how many got removed lines)

[trim grotto]

Roughly half of them are non-functional in my experience

But they do technically exist

[eager trout]

How many weapons do we have that were made by each enemy faction? I know we have at least 2 Cabal, and 2 Fallen weapons, and 1 Vex

[trim grotto]

Well, let's see. Skyburner's Oath, Grand Overture, and the Hairy Parent are three for the Cabal off the top of my head. Plus Heartshadow.

[eager trout]

Exotics

I meant exotic weapons

[trim grotto]

those are all exotics

[eager trout]

Sorry

Oh

What's Hairy Par- oh

[trim grotto]

Legend of Acrius, too

[eager trout]

The what?

We need more Vex weapons

Also, why are Cloudstrider exotics so cool?

And I want Obstruction lore

(Vex mind in the Cloud-Ark)

[trim grotto]

Well there's the Vex Mythoclast and Divinity, possibly Pocket Infinity, Vexcalibur,

[trim grotto]

Soteria is your interest then

Because it's her submind

[analog torrent]

Mael I require your analysis 🙏

—so there you have it, Ace, that's why I did what I did. I had no choice, really. It was that or the great beyond. Just know your dad did what he had to do if I ever wanted to see you and your mother again. You probably won't recognize me, since I'll be, well, a robot and all, but I'll find you, I promise—

—from the journals of Cayde-6

...that's why I did what I did. I had no choice, really. It was that or the great beyond. Just know your dad did what he had to do if I ever wanted to see you and your mother again...
Isn't this confirmation that Human Cayde had a wife and kid, even if the memory that Cayde-6 has of them is a fantasy and not based in reality? The rest of the journal could fit into his fantasy but this one part seems to be written after he agreed to become an Exo and before he became Cayde-1.

I'm asking cause I read a theory that Cayde-1's memory of grabbing Micah Abrams is the real source of this idea of Ace, which goes against this journal entry if Human Cayde had a kid. That, or the two ideas work together and Human Cayde did have a kid, but Cayde-6 has no memory of Ace at all and his memory of Ace is based on this memory of Micah.

[trim grotto]

As for Eliksni, there's Salvation's Grip and Cryosthesia, Queenbreaker Bow, Anarchy, Lord of Wolves, Lorentz Driver, Plan C, Dreg's Promise, and probably some other D1 weapons

[dim minnow]

throw that npc off the tower immediately

[trim grotto]

Chances are strong that Cayde really did have a wife and kid, yes. But what he made up was how he felt about them. He projected these feelings of love and affection onto words on a page that he didn't truly have any connection too anymore.

It filled something in his heart. Kept him going, accountable.

[analog torrent]

Ye olde Blade Runner question
It doesn't matter if they were real or not, because it's how they affected Cayde that mattered after he was rezzed

[trim grotto]

That's exactly it

I fell in love with the idea of them, and I crafted a truth that allowed me to feel.```

[empty fern]

(Now we getting a sword with spades on it)

[analog torrent]

On a somewhat related note, CANONICAL MICAH ART

if anyone has a pdf of grimoire 6 please slide it into my dms 🙏 need a high quality version of this painting fr

[weak prawn]

So if osires became lightless but was still able to use strand dose that mean any person can?

[empty fern]

Yep

Same with stasis

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-beyond-light-stranger-stasis-exo-stranger-gif-19025454

[weak prawn]

is that what lead to the dark future?

[empty fern]

Probably not

Strand is way past Elsie’s dark future

[weak prawn]

Oh new territory

[empty fern]

Ye

[trim grotto]

The primary repeated factor of the Dark Future(s) (there were uncountable, not a singular) was the Black Heart.

[dim minnow]

hmmm, hold on, lemme get the artist name

[analog torrent]

https://www.artstation.com/devinkorwin

his artstation doesnt have it :(

[empty fern]

Give it time

[dim minnow]

yeah, I can't find any other images of it

[sharp osprey]

so why exactly does the witness need to use the light for the final shape?

[dim minnow]

the Light will allow it to perfectly reshape the universe

I believe it already has the Darkness

[sharp osprey]

oh thats right it was explained in the witness origin cutscene

the precursors tried using both the traveler and the veil to reshape the universe into "perfection"

[dim minnow]

and we know what their "perfection" looks like

pretty much the things we see in the Pyramids

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/the-witness-destiny-2-destiny-final-shape-gif-12917414675626587744

New witness gif dropped, (start speculating)

[raw hazel]

me at 9am trying to find the will to survive the day

[empty fern]

Your will shall be the final

[raw hazel]

u_u

[dim minnow]

Witness be like: "We have the whole Final Shape ahead of us"
no you don't Bravery is coming

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-destiny-the-witness-stare-staring-gif-2447379772500263713

Wait was this from lf?

[raw hazel]

If I had to hazard a guess

This is at the top of the big spire in the Pale Heart

[dim minnow]

I'm pretty sure this is from the first TFS trailer

[raw hazel]

Where the Witness is trying to siphon the Light from the Traveler

[empty fern]

I see

https://tenor.com/view/witness-the-witness-destiny-2-destiny-2-the-witness-destiny-2-witness-gif-7233738735024922416

Reverse

[raw hazel]

(that is to say my speculation is on the first gif nessus posted)

T~T where the traveler is screaming for help

[empty fern]

Notice the backround having rotating projectiles

Atleast a circle thing

[raw hazel]

In the first show it's hard to tell but it looks like it's standing in a grassy field

[empty fern]

(I have no idea what you seen)

[raw hazel]

And in here assumedly particles of Light

[raw hazel]

In this one where the camera pans out

These are from the vidoc right?

Maybe I'll snoop through them tomorrow..

[empty fern]

Honestly?

Idk, I’ve seen the first vidoc but barely remember the witness scenes

Is second vidoc out?

[raw hazel]

yer

[empty fern]

Oooo

I should probably watch that

Cya

[raw hazel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Rou7bKqgc

here go

[outer dragon]

Hairy Parent?

[empty fern]

Yes

[outer dragon]

Oh

I just got it

[empty fern]

[raw hazel]

y’know

if one can be actually conversational in the pyramid language i think i’mma take the time to learn it

[little gorge]

I don't know about conversational

but they did explicitly say it's a conlang so i have high hopes

[raw hazel]

i am holding out hope

[little gorge]

it probably lacks like

actual vocab

[raw hazel]

i mean

[little gorge]

other than talking about the light and dark and the final shape

[raw hazel]

we don’t know

this is the first time that bungie has done anything like this explicitly

[little gorge]

unless it's a very minimal language where everything is expressed in terms of basic concepts (like toki pona)

[raw hazel]

we know some stuff like a few eliksni words and the meanings of various hive runes, but this is their first deliberate conlang

[little gorge]

they should give us a lore book entirely in pyramid language

[raw hazel]

yooooo

could you imagine????

raid lore in the pyramid language

[little gorge]

that would be amazing for lore/conlang fans and terrible for everyone else

people already complain too much stuff is in lore books

[raw hazel]

inversely

[little gorge]

if reading english is a high barrier to entry for a lot of people then 90% of the community will never get to read a pyramid language lorebook

[raw hazel]

it be really fucking cool

[little gorge]

it would

i honestly hope they do it

[raw hazel]

same

even if it’s just a couple of pages

[little gorge]

and tbh that sounds like something the people who write lore entires would do

[raw hazel]

shit if i could i would

[little gorge]

destiny's lore is already very different from other games in the sense you are literally just reading a (potentially in universe) text

other games give you an out of universe overview of stuff

destiny is like "here is the full scripture of the hive, have fun"

so sure, why not a dread book written in THEIR language

[raw hazel]

d1 grimoire iirc was meant to like be mostly folktale and the like

[little gorge]

even if they don't do a full book I'm sure they'll do something

[raw hazel]

and across various lore bits you have personal collections, religious texts, reports, propaganda, etc

i always loved how varied it was

[little gorge]

like how they usually add weird formatting and stuff

maybe there's a book where we read like

an incomplete translation of a dread text

with some parts left in the original language

[sharp osprey]

what's the likelihood that the ahamkara originate from the pale heart, or at least from the traveler in some way

[trim grotto]

I'd say extremely low to none

Their Wish Magic may be paracausal but it isn't born of the Light so far as we're aware

[sharp osprey]

have they ever been known to exist outside of Sol?

[trim grotto]

Emperor Calus had an Ahamkara bone. Couldn't use it due to his overwhelming apathy, amusingly enough, but he had one.

[kindred wyvern]

Who's more powerful, rhulk or nezarec?

[trim grotto]

We never saw Nezarec at his peak, but as far as our actual encounters go, apparently Rhulk.

[empty fern]

I wonder

Forget the pineapples
How did the golden age get ironwood trees

[fresh zephyr]

The Eliksni have been through so much. I hope Salvation join House of Light

[trim grotto]

Many have. It's what Light was primarily composed of, originally.

[fresh zephyr]

Eramis has just left Sol right? She's just done with all of it

[trim grotto]

Supposedly

[weak prawn]

Alright time for a real question does being a guardian pay?

[jagged badge]

Technically yeah

Guardians are incentivised by loot and engrams to do things

They are rewarded for their participation in Vanguard Ops and Crucible and such with engrams and gear directly

[woeful hornet]

i mean ask yourself arent you constantly being showered with glimmer

[ember storm]

you’d think the economy would be in shambles because of how much glimmer is constantly acquired, but it actually balances it out with glimmer regularly being used and consumed as fuel or turned into other materials

[naive raptor]

What is (the) Sword Logic? Extra detail is suggested

[chrome fog]

Waltz did an explanation not to long ago, hopefully this gives enough detail
#📚lore-discussion message

Mael also has one too
#📚lore-discussion message

[blazing wasp]

Wonder how that bigass lore faq is coming along

[pearl basin]

BRO IS ONTO NOTHING???!!?!??

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[ember storm]

what the fuck am I looking at

[analog torrent]

Do they use miles or kilometers

[past glen]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-spell-magic-magician-witch-gif-17336908087540759582

[pearl basin]

man idk

[outer dragon]

WTF is a kilometer?

[outer dragon]

Bro needs to get out of the kitchen

[white girder]

Seriously, Destiny 2 needs to make less dead characters in lore

[blazing wasp]

They don't have that much

[white girder]

I mean, at least use excuses (e.g. being risen as a guardian and remember their past lives) and bring them back

[blazing wasp]

That would invalidate the entire death

Resurrection can be a good plot tool, or ruin it

[white girder]

exactly

[blazing wasp]

Crow was a good plot tool

Amanda for example is a horrid one if it happens.

[white girder]

forget it

[blazing wasp]

Pardon

[wise thunder]

💀

[white girder]

amanda is dead?

[blazing wasp]

Uh

Yeah

She blew up

Not even a body to recover iirc

[iron mortar]

Why did the lucent brood try to revive oryx with a ghost, was it to use him against xivu arath

What do the lucent brood even what overall

[wise thunder]

Because they thought it’d be funny

[iron mortar]

?

[wise thunder]

(I don’t know)

[blazing wasp]

He'd be a potentially inherently powerful ally to savathun

[iron mortar]

But if he regained his memory wouldn't he turn against her

[blazing wasp]

Yes

But that's a if.

[iron mortar]

And the lucent brood just want to serve savathun right

That is their whole deal

Do they not want anything else

[blazing wasp]

Their plan is basically to, idk, survive and gain power?

And service to savathun helps that

[iron mortar]

Why did we even stop them, technically savathun wants the same thing as us which is to protect the traveler

Different methods of how but could we not have discussed it

[blazing wasp]

We wanna protect the traveler cause it keeps us from dying

And savathun would make that difficult.

Hell, the traveler didn't even wanna stay

Unknown if it voluntarily entered

[chrome fog]

It is exceedingly inherent to Savathun’s character that she continually find ways to only benefit herself, as was explicitly clear when she planned to swipe the Traveler and then ditch all of the rest of the Sol System to our own fate. She would have protected the Traveler solely to keep herself independent from any other force as she had been to the point until her resurrection, exploiting the Traveler’s vow of non-interference.

Yes, on a very technical level we have similar goals but do not mistake that for Savathun knowing better how to save existence nor for actual action against the Witness’ machinations.

It’s the same as the Witness’ proposed Salvation; yes, there would technically be no misery, no suffering, but there would be no joy, no progress no triumph. Just unending stasis in which all is preserved in an unchanging state

[iron mortar]

About the witness, I am kinda confused so were the pyramids that came in arrivals didn't have the witness in there, but why did they take the io, mars, and mercury then?

[chrome fog]

They are all under its control

Thought they are not being controlled by it all the time

It is also implied they are self-sentient, but still serve the Witness' interests

Anyways, what better way to further put pressure on the enemy forces going against your goals than taking away the locations they have footholds in

They were also trying to get to the Traveler before it fully recovered, which was the initial goal

[stark ice]

Is oryx trans? I’m reading lore and it’s callling him a sister in the beginning

[analog torrent]

Technically yes

He went from biologically and socially female to biologically and socially male

One of the writers said “didn’t think of it that way but now that I think of it yeah sure”

[stark ice]

So if he went from biologically a male then he’s not trans, well makes sense since he’s an alien and could change sex

I was just confused I did not think he biologically changed

[analog torrent]

No he was biologically female

[stark ice]

Yeah sorry female

he’s a biological male then, that’s cool. Can all the hive do that? Or just the gods?

[analog torrent]

Hive can do that

They have their own gender thing

Ex: Xivu Arath is a knight but she’s female

Nokris is a wizard but he’s male

[stark ice]

the lore on the hive is way more interesting then all the other races so far

Oh so xivu a tomboy

[analog torrent]

Yes

[analog torrent]

The exos, awoken, cabal, and Eliksni also have pretty good lore

Start with the Marasenna for awoken after reading the books of sorrow

Marasenna -> The Awoken of the Reef -> The Dreaming City -> The Forsaken Prince

For exos, grimoire 3 pretty much covers it

Not sure bout the other 2

[analog torrent]

What is the social importance of a fireteam? Eriana asking Wei Ning to join her fireteam was a big deal. Don’t think there’s a semantic distinction between a perma and a temp fireteam.

[ember storm]

that’s not really relevant to the point

Oryx changing biologically was specifically because he took the King morph granted directly by the worm gods

Xivu being a knight didn’t change her gender, nor did Nokris being a wizard

neither of them are unique in that regard either

[stark ice]

Ohhh ok I see, so oryx was special it was not something that most of their race can do

[restive agate]

The way I see it is like a close friend group or brother / sisterhood. Think like a squad in the military you’re choosing someone who you trust with your life(s) ya know? I think for that case specifically tho it’s like asking their crush on a date

Also, am I crazy or wasn’t Atraks also trans?

[raw hazel]

You would be crazy

[analog torrent]

Micah was

Don’t think atraks was

[dim minnow]

I have arrived

[dim minnow]

it seems like a Fireteam can be seen a comradierie or a more intimate relationship

the exact relationship can depend on the members

and perhaps asking someone to be in your fireteam could be used as a comedic metaphor for asking to be in a relationship

[chrome fog]

Like asking if someone wants to take cashier alongside you in the same shift

[pearl basin]

I MUST FEED YOU TO THE FELINE MONSTER

[desert tree]

Question about Calus: before he got banished/exiled, was Calus a good/decent/evil person? I know he obviously had a problem with excessive greed, but he still had loyalists after he went evil, which makes me wonder if he treated his people well enough that the decision to serve him did have some of the cabal consider it

[sharp osprey]

i mean he was the emperor of a imperial regime, probably not the best person

[empty fern]

He was infact, not very kind

[trim grotto]

Calus's reign was a mixture of good and bad. He tried to free the Psions (before Otzot and the others committed the Midnight Coup), but also dismantled and destroyed cultural heritage and history. He lavished his people in riches and hedonism, but was so narcissistic that he slaughtered his daughter's War Beast, Milos, because she loved it more than he. Gee, I wonder why.

Many Cabal who saw things the old way thought that he weakened them.

[empty fern]

Man, ghaul during haunted was such a nice experience

[shadow crypt]

What is the ascendent plane?

[empty fern]

.

[empty fern]

This

Well kinda but it’s the most recent

[shadow crypt]

Thanks

[unreal bison]

Did Gahlran have autonomy wile wearing the crown of sorrows or was he completely Savathun influenced?

[dim minnow]

when he put on the crown, his mind was essentially destroyed

[unreal bison]

what was he trying to achieve within the levithan?

Have there been beings that are not hive or vex that could manipulate and command them other then the mindbender?

[dim minnow]

Gahlran was created from Calus' cloning facilities specifically so he could wear the crown

Calus' forces found it after raiding a Hive war moon and he discovered that it acted as a sort of two-way seeing device

of course, Calus knew it was a trap, but he could not resist the temptation of gaining knowledge from it, so he created Gahlran

then he forced Gahlran to wear it which started the CoS fiasco

[dim minnow]

the Witness was able to command the Sol Divisive

then there are Taken Vex and Hive which are controlled by whatever strong ruler they have at the time

like Riven during Forsaken

[unreal bison]

okays i find that so intresting. The more i read into it the complex this lore is haha

do the scorn have an active military force or are they just puppets for the witness now?

[dim minnow]

There are two groups of them

One group serves the Witness

The other serve Fikrul, the Fanatic, who is the first Scorn

Then there are some strays like the group in Warlord's Ruin

[unreal bison]

didnt we kill Fikrul, the Fanatic?

or cant he really die?

[dim minnow]

Yeah, but he keeps coming back

Result of Ahamkara magic

[unreal bison]

oh so not like a throne world kinda thing

[dim minnow]

Basically, Uldren Sov, who was corrupted by Darkness at the time, found a dying Fikrul and made an unwitting wish to Riven (who was manipulating him at the time)

As a result, Riven took some of the Darkness afflicting Uldren and mixed it with Fikrul's Ether which made him into the first Scorn

[unreal bison]

i see, so while Fikrul is still alive he can re create scorn. So they are kinda hive life?

Rivens dead so rivens magic to keep Fikrul alive is still live?

Because Uldren died... so confusing haha

[ember storm]

ahamkara just alter reality beyond their own lives

you can’t change a wish after it’s already happened

it’s not like killing riven just causes the dreaming city to stop existing

[dim minnow]

Not really, most Hive detest Necromancy

Excluding Nokris' brood

And Savathun because she's Savathun

[compact sky]

A line from the Lightfall campaign stuck with me, Ghost said something about light requiring the right instruments while darkness required the right mindset

how does Light require right instruments?

[unreal bison]

if there is two factions within the scorn, the witness and Fikrul, does thnat mean Fikrul will maybe join the fight against the witness given Fikrul cares for his scorn?

[jagged badge]

Our connection to Light is through our Ghosts for one. Anyone can learn Darkness. Additionally, Light can be learned very simply, very structurally. Meanwhile it took us having to alter our mindset and approach to how we did things to learn Stasis and especially Strand

[compact sky]

ah, and iirc Strand can just as easily unravel your physical matter at the same time and Stasis can easily corrupt you with improper use

[ember storm]

depends on how you mean

two forces of scorn fighting each other? sure

allying with humanity? very much doubt it

[shadow crypt]

What are the scorn’s origin

[jagged badge]

Uldren inadvertently wished to resurrect Fikrul. And I believe other Scorn were created as a result of Variks experimenting with Fikrul’s Dark Ether in the Prison of Elders

[naive raptor]

Why did Riven manipulate Uldren?

[gaunt carbon]

apart of savathun’s wider plan

[naive raptor]

And when we killed Riven we trapped the dreaming city in a 3-week time loop. How and why?

[jagged badge]

Savathûn’s design enacted by Riven as a result of us inadvertently wishing to save the Dreaming City

Savathûn intended it as an infinite tribute generator. Lots of death, lots of deception as we struggle to figure out how to stop it

[outer dragon]

The deception part was the more important part

Tricking people gave her far more tribute that death

[gaunt carbon]

why was nessus not taken by the witness

[blazing wasp]

Nothing important there for it

[smoky rose]

Not even a guardian representative

[jagged badge]

No need

Mars was Taken to be studied by the Witness. Rasputin, Soteria, etc. Titan was Taken because of Ahsa. Mercury because of the Sundial and such and Io because it’s a site of great importance as the last place in Sol the Traveler touched. Plus the Pyramidion

[dim minnow]

Sundial was left inert for good after Dawn though, I'm pretty sure Mercury was for the Infinite Forest

[jagged badge]

Oh yeah whoops that was it

I forgor the Infinite Forest so my brain autofilled the other notable keyword from Mercury I did remember

[grand jungle]

Apparently shatterskatting is cannon??

[jagged badge]

Sauce?

[grand jungle]

Just had to go here and see

[raw hazel]

[blazing wasp]

Don't worry everyone surely the 6th time will stop these conversations about not trusting people who are actively encouraged by the website/app to intentionally spread misinformation for the sake of attention.

Explicitly with the method of misinformation

[raw hazel]

Yeah like.. I don’t think a random Reddit(?) comment is a reliable source.

[blazing wasp]

Iirc that's tik tok

Under a byf vis

Cid

Fuck

Vid

[grand jungle]

Just had to check ^

[blazing wasp]

Stop trusting these.

They are intentionally spreading misinformation with the explicit purpose of getting attention drawn to them

Tik tok is not a reliable source of information, it is dependant on not being so to survive as a platform.

[raw hazel]

To say it’s dubious at best would be an understatement.

[trim grotto]

You're an understatement

[raw hazel]

Why thank you :3

[trim grotto]

You're very welcome Hally Mally

[dim minnow]

while it isn't canon, I would not be surprised in the slightest if it does at some point

[fast tapir]

this isnt the best source of information icl

[chrome fog]

There is a possibility of it being mentioned in lore - slightly recalling something like this but it’s very possible I am misremembering - but like it’s not very good to take these statements at face value when there’s no citation nor evidence for the claim

[eager trout]

Who

[trim grotto]

That was two days ago

[jagged badge]

Explanation expired

[trim grotto]

Well, I'm at work. I'll have to get back to you for an extended explanation later.

[chrome fog]

You can search it up, we’ve discussed Soteria before in this channel

[dim minnow]

AI made by Humanity with Vex tech

it was a collaborative project between Ishtar and Clovis Bray in the Golden Age meant to use predictive algorithms to find suitable colony spots outside of Sol

Soteria noted that there was an anomaly blocking safe passage to many possible colony locations

Soteria was also in close contact with Rasputin, who was notified of this

Soteria then tried to send several colony ships away in an attempt to get some of humanity to safety, but Clovis used Ares Spire, the location we go to in the dungeon, to partition and contain Soteria

then he would recall the exodus ships Soteria sent out except for one in which a small fragment of Soteria was able to be broken off ans sent to

this colony ship would then end up on Neptune leading to Neomuna's founding

[compact sky]

I'm not fully caught up, is Savathun dead?

[dim minnow]

currently she is alive, but she was killed several times by Saint-14 then left still alive

her ghost is currently with us as collateral incase she tries anything

[compact sky]

what she doin now?

[dim minnow]

plotting and scheming

[compact sky]

so she's still in her throne world, right?

[dim minnow]

probably

we know she'll be involved in TFS

[compact sky]

wait, why did Saint-14 go Twilight Gap on Savathun?

[dim minnow]

we will be fighting Lucent Brood, but even then it's a toss-up on whether or not she will be an enemy or ally

[dim minnow]

mainly because of what she did to Osiris

if you aren't aware, at the start of Season of the Hunt, Osiris lost Sagira and was left vulnerable

[compact sky]

oh yeah, I missed like 1 years worth of content. He got posessed by Savathun

[dim minnow]

he was then posessed by Savathun and for the next few seasons would pretend to be him

then in Season of the Lost, she would reveal herself and force us into a bargain where we had to help her exorcise her worm and in exchange she would give Osiris back to us

in the end, we got the worm out of her and she held up her end after escaping

[compact sky]

is there any lore reason why Osiris still wears Sunbreakers if he uses Strand now is he too lazy to mess with his Fashion

[dim minnow]

just part of his fashion

[dim minnow]

however, Osiris was left in a coma for a while until Mithrax distilled the primordial darkness within the Nezarec relics into a tea to wake Osiris up

and now Mithrax is slowly being affected by Nezarec's curse

[compact sky]

you think Savathun would be friend or foe

[dim minnow]

depends on what benefits her plans at the time

we have amutual enemy, but we are not on friendly terms at all

[compact sky]

makes sense, considering as a lightbearer, having the traveler would be more beneficial than trying to make amends with abandoning the witness

wait, so, why did Cayde get revived again?

and how?

[dim minnow]

the current theory is Ahamkara fuckery

in particular regarding the lore tab we got with the new ship that came from the finale mission

[chrome fog]

She actively betrayed the Witness because yes, she too recognized that the “Salvation” it offers is not at all what one would want; she killed Nezarec and then hid the Veil away so that the Witness would not be able to immediately create that connection it would need to access the Traveler’s Pale Heart

[chrome fog]

I’m still of the mind that, while yes there is wish fuckery about, the Akashic realm thing is also relevant

[analog torrent]

There was a house that resembled Zavala's old house with his wife and son in the ViDoc, so it might also be Darkness memory fuckery

[chrome fog]

Begging and pleading that he was just mindlessly wandering the place and got ported close to the portal in time for Crow to meet up with him

[compact sky]

it says in a Hero's Requiem that Cayde named his ghost Sundance because of an old fable, do we know the actual fable or is it just some random lore

[chrome fog]

Why use the name Akashic Revelation and show what happened to Joxer when he attempted to go through the portal if it isn’t gonna use that

[analog torrent]

this fr the same house but from a back view

[empty fern]

Whhhhh

Ehh

[versed orbit]

they look different tbf

[raw hazel]

The chimney's in a different spot

[versed orbit]

one has a satellite dish lmao

[raw hazel]

also that

And different roofs

Thatch vs wooden

[versed orbit]

i do wonder what the deal with that witness house is

[trim grotto]

Given the fact that this place is built from memories I'd say it's a pretty reasonable guess
And these cutscenes aren't known for their 1-1 accuracy

Such as the weapon Saladin used in his tale to Crow

[empty fern]

Real question is did the traveler forget about Zavala

[analog torrent]

Zavala said "I used to think that I'd give anything to bring you back" which could mean multiple characters but the appearance of the house makes me think Safiyah and Hakim

[compact sky]

I forgot, Bungie made actual lore books for sale right?

[empty fern]

(Cayde moment)

Yea

[versed orbit]

yea

[trim grotto]

Grimoire books and CE lore, yes.

[versed orbit]

they’re pretty cool

[compact sky]

what's Grimoire and CE?

[analog torrent]

Yes and some of them have exclusive lore that can't be found on ishtar

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/grimoire-black-clover-gif-25214951

Books

[versed orbit]

they have their own unique artwork in some of them

[trim grotto]

D1 era lore tabs. In this case, the Grimoire collections are books of grouped and thematic lore tabs.

[analog torrent]

We got human Cayde face reveal in grimoire 3 💯

[trim grotto]

A couple of unique pieces here and there, and some art.

[analog torrent]

(sorta)

[trim grotto]

CE is Collector's Edition, for the DLCs.

[empty fern]

But no micah face reveal yet

[compact sky]

all are D1?

[trim grotto]

No.

[analog torrent]

Only took 10 years for the first micah image to establish itself, or however long she has existed in lore
Maybe in another 10 years

[trim grotto]

The actual Grimoire physical books are a mix based on the theme chosen.

[versed orbit]

forgot about micah

[compact sky]

who's Micah again?

rings a bell, but frogot

[analog torrent]

Grimoire 1, dark mirror: first half is straight up the books of sorrow, second half is a compilation of Shin Malphur's early life and Dredgen Yor hunt

[versed orbit]

is shin still alive lmao

[empty fern]

Should be

[trim grotto]

Micah-10, Hunter, Den-Mother-Of-Ghosts, one of the Six Coyotes.

[analog torrent]

hunter, den mother of ghosts with no guardian, founding member of the six coyotes, a legendary hunter group that escorted refugees to the last city and were the first to scout out the cosmodrome for patrolling iirc

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[analog torrent]

dude is retired

[versed orbit]

the lorebreaker

[raw hazel]

I like to think he's on some beach somewhere sipping space-margaritas

[compact sky]

ohh, and who was the other exo that died during the seaso n of the eliksni

season of the splicer*

[analog torrent]

lakshmi

[trim grotto]

Lakshmi-2

[analog torrent]

long story

like really long story lmao

[trim grotto]

Short story, blame Savathûn

[versed orbit]

you can blame savathun for a lotta shit during that time

[analog torrent]

Grimoire 1, dark mirror: first half is straight up the books of sorrow, second half is a compilation of Shin Malphur's early life and Dredgen Yor hunt
Grimoire 2, fallen kingdoms: first half is dark ages and a lot of Iron Lord stuff, second half is eliksni history after they arrived in sol and it was a snoozefest I'm gonna be real shit was like a history textbook
Grimoire 3, war machines: exos, clovis bray, unethical braytech experiments, rasputin, cayde-6, the ishtar collective
Grimoire 4,5,6 I haven't read

awoken/I think hive?, cabal, and ghost-guardian relationships respectively

[trim grotto]

I have the files if anyone wants them

Just, not for another four hours

[compact sky]

she was manipulated by Sava-Osiris to do something but vex invaded and she was caught in the crossfire iirc

[trim grotto]

Basically, yes. It involved a lot of anti-Eliksni racism. Specism? Anyway.

[versed orbit]

spacism

[trim grotto]

Savathûn riled up the City through Lakshmi-2.

[analog torrent]

xenophobia?

[trim grotto]

She opened a Vex portal in the Botza District to throw the House of Light into

Shockingly, Vex came out of the Vex portal

Who'd-a-thunk

[compact sky]

so we have Cyrell, a lightbearer that kills guardian-less ghosts, and Micah, a lightbearer that saves guardian-less ghosts

thats cool

[trim grotto]

Yes, and Cyrell hunts Micah-10.

Due to her calling

[compact sky]

wasn't Cyrell only hunting in the reef

he was looking for Awoken and hunted any guardian-less ghost he saw while he wandered

or am I making stuff up

[trim grotto]

He was hunting in the Reef, but not only in the Reef.

[analog torrent]

There was a letter Micah wrote that included something along the lines of "and fuck that Cyrell guy" lemme see if I can find it

[compact sky]

what was the lore of that season with the pirates

the one with the drifter

[versed orbit]

eramis came back

[analog torrent]

These last few months we've enjoyed the pleasant absence of Cyrell. Now I feel more confident that we lost him in Australis. If he tries to hurt my Ghosts, I will rip his throat out.
queen shit

[versed orbit]

done some shit

[compact sky]

she came back???

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/protector-of-ghosts

[versed orbit]

yep

[trim grotto]

Freed by the Witness in exchange for her loyalty.

[versed orbit]

she’s out of action again though i think

[trim grotto]

She's tired. She wants to go home and find Athrys.

[analog torrent]

She made a brief appearance in defiance

she ditched sol after that?

[versed orbit]

probably to find her wife

[chrome fog]

Exactly to find her wife

[compact sky]

Athrys is new to me

[chrome fog]

Her embrace should be familiar, it's an exotic

[compact sky]

oh yeah what happened to the founders of neomuna

the two lovers

Maya Sundaresh and Chioma Esi

[analog torrent]

Maya Sundaresh did a mind copy into Lakshmi (the original exo Lakshmi is dead), who left Neptune and ended up on Earth, and we know how that ended

She (the human version) died at some point

Not familiar with her and Chioma Esi's lore beyond what was covered in grimoire 3 though 🙏 someone else cover this

[compact sky]

uhuh so did Maya originally like to predict alot of things or was that just a unique part of being an Exo

don't think we even know anything about Maya

[analog torrent]

She has a decent number of lore entries https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/maya-sundaresh

12+6+9+1+2+1

Unrelated: Any word on if Saladin is going into the Traveler with the rest of the gang? If the Iron Banner thingy is in there and there's weird stuff going on with memories... Felwinter, Radegast, Jolder in game real?

[chrome fog]

She was the founder of the Future War Cult and I believe discovered the Vex Prediction device that they used for all their future portents? Maya remained human for the entirety of her life, but as said before Lakshmi-2 as we knew her contained and mainly drew her characteristics from a mindscan of Maya

And Lakshmi-2 is not exactly an exo of Maya, per se; she's the result of a similar ritual the Precursors performed (in Ahsa's Witness Origins inkblot cutscene) that used all the exos that had died from exposure to the Veil

Most of this is discovered and elaborated upon in the Veil Containment Logs, which the Destiny Lore Vault channel on YouTube should have recordings of

You can also go to the Veil Containment Facility and listen to the Logs in-game if you wish

[ember storm]

it’s worth noting that the Maya copies should still be roaming around, and we got the Ishtar logo propping up in vex territory recently

with the first episode called “Echoes” there’s reason enough to assume something is going to come up

[empty fern]

Reminds me of osiris during curse of osiris

[chrome fog]

Oh also that, don't think it was mentioned earlier for Sova, but Maya, Chioma, and another Ishtar researcher found 227 simulated copies of themselves in a Vex frame, and basically recruited them to explore the Vex Network for them

[compact sky]

why did Eramis get stasis in the first place? I know it has something to do with Athryx but I don't really know anything else

iirc Mithrax and Eramis were close friends

[compact sky]

which planet is that in?

[trim grotto]

Eramis got Stasis because she found a Pyramid. She recognised its potential and claimed a Splinter from it, to use against us. Athrys wasn't really relevant.
Misraaks and Eramis weren't exactly friends, either. They were simply known to one another.

[trim grotto]

Neptune, Neomuna. That's where the Veil is.

[compact sky]

hm, then I may be confusing it with another game

hm why does Eramis hate us and not Mithrax

[chrome fog]

I wanted to explain but I gotta eep, you got this Mael

[compact sky]

am I thinking of the right character

[versed orbit]

She hates the traveler for abandoning her planet

So she hates us by extension

[chrome fog]

Not really, not only is Misraaks younger than her but also they have very different views on the Traveler and humanity as a whole, both being justified through their experiences

[compact sky]

Variks

Variks was the one I was thinking of

[trim grotto]

The species is not a homogenous hive mind. They're individuals who came to different conclusions.

Mithrax has had a storied life, of corruption, forgiveness, mercy, friendship. His daughter helped him see life anew, and he trusted in the Traveler when others felt betrayed by it, like we didn't deserve it

[compact sky]

sorry, replace all of Mithrax with Variks

Mithrax is the man with the glasses, Variks is the man with the prosthetic arms

[trim grotto]

Variks, the Loyal. He's got quite the history too.

He's a member of House Judgement, a House of peaceful scholars, historians, and... Well, judges.

He's also the only remaining member of House Judgement.

[empty fern]

Ah yes, the green fallen

[trim grotto]

His position in life has always been as a scribe and advisor, but the Fallen Houses at the time after the Whirlwind... did not greatly value such things.

Variks betrayed the House of Wolves to the Awoken to stop the bloodshed.

So, he joined with the Awoken for decades.

[compact sky]

that's very cool

I might be wrong but wasnt Variks, Eramis, and Athrys friends prior to the whirlwind

Eramis and Athrys being partners

[versed orbit]

They knew each other

They’re all old as hell

All born on Riis

[trim grotto]

Variks was friends with Athrys, at least. Probably Eramis by proxy.

[willow dagger]

In the last mission of the season Osiris says if crow is stranded he might not be able to hold back Mara’s anger. Does that imply she would harm us??

[sharp osprey]

i dont think it means much. Mara is a very powerful person who cares a lot about Crow and she would naturally be very angry if he died

Mara is definitely on our side no matter what though

the little bits of the final shape's cutscenes we've seen so far have looked so good

[delicate nimbus]

s

(Jkkkkkk)

[dim minnow]

not intentionally

it is implied that she could split the Dreaming City in half, so...

there is a possibility that if she gets mad enough, something like that could happen and we would get caught in it

[trim grotto]

Not us. Just, y'know. Powerful sorceress Queen, able to destroy Pyramids, who's brother becomes missing forever? She might go a little angy

Bit of a tantrum

[willow dagger]

Qween, as a person always on the verge of violence, I understand this

OSIRIS AND SAINT SHIPPED?!?!

Or is this the brotherly love?

[raw hazel]

They are gay

[trim grotto]

They've been romantic partners for years

You're behind the times, Blue

[willow dagger]

Seriously?! I didn’t know!

[raw hazel]

My favorite gay grandpas

[sick yew]

Under which rock have you been living Kyra

[willow dagger]

I know no times

[trim grotto]

They are
The Big Gay™️

It's very cute

[willow dagger]

I’ve never even heard them have a conversation

[sharp osprey]

they talk in Lightfall a little bit

and theres that cutscene with Saint being at Osiris's bed when he recovers

very sweet

[sick yew]

At the end of season of the haunted they straight up kissed in the drawn cutscene

[trim grotto]

Devrim is gay and Hawthorne's adoptive father

[sick yew]

Wait was it haunted

[trim grotto]

So there's that too

[sharp osprey]

i didnt know he was her dad, huh

[trim grotto]

Splicer

[sharp osprey]

i guess i forgot

[sick yew]

What no

[trim grotto]

Heheh

[sick yew]

Pirate season

[trim grotto]

No it was Plunder to be serious

[sick yew]

Plunder yeah

[trim grotto]

I do a little misinfo

[sharp osprey]

i love Saint and i can't stand Osiris lol

[trim grotto]

Just to test you

[sick yew]

[trim grotto]

What're you gonna do, remove my Consensus?

[sharp osprey]

i wonder if, after hearing that dialogue between those two, they're gonna replace Zavala and Ikora in the tower for the duration of the campaign or something

[sick yew]

What if I remove you period

[trim grotto]

[sick yew]

[sharp osprey]

did saint and osiris fall in love when they were in the vanguard together?

[trim grotto]

With a Redjack and one of the Bazaar shopkeepers respectively

[sick yew]

Around that time I think

[trim grotto]

It sort of built up over a long period of time
I couldn't put a pin on a hard date off the top of my head

[raw hazel]

hey mael what do ur bones taste like???

[sick yew]

[raw hazel]

asking for research purposes

[trim grotto]

Oh god Hally don't ask me that it brings flashbacks of Newquay and The Cat Lady

[raw hazel]

:3

[jagged badge]

Huwha

[dim minnow]

hey hally, what is a synonym for courage?

[trim grotto]

Do... do you even know that story
Is this intentional or are you somehow coincidentally delving into my memories

[raw hazel]

Porridge?

[raw hazel]

:3

[dim minnow]

...what?

[trim grotto]

[raw hazel]

Oh I thought you meant rhymed

[jagged badge]

💀😭

[raw hazel]

to be fair it’s a few hours past midnight here

my cognition is heavily diminished

[trim grotto]

They're so brave. So courageous. So porridge.

[raw hazel]

Ikr????

[jagged badge]

Porridgeous

[sick yew]

Im sending you all to the off topic dimension

[trim grotto]

[raw hazel]

NOOOOO

[dim minnow]

hey Alex, how about you tell me what the opposite of cowardice is

[sick yew]

[jagged badge]

Cereal

[raw hazel]

c’mon alex

out with it

[dim minnow]

almost a week before TFS and everyone is losing their minds

[empty fern]

Brave water

[raw hazel]

I NEED NEW LORE AND I NEED IT NOW

IT’S AS DRY AS A DESERT OUT HERE

[sick yew]

Who needs new lore
We have gotten the best lore and only lore we ever need a few years back

[dim minnow]

Into the light lore book has some interesting implications

[sick yew]

My lore to be exact

[trim grotto]

Did you see The Constant Guardian?

[dim minnow]

like for instance, implications that the Last City is looking to revamp its governing system

[raw hazel]

Not yet thanku for reminding me

[dim minnow]

or also the idea that we might start reclaiming Earth

[raw hazel]

And tbh true the bits with ITL were neat

[sick yew]

Whats the problem Hally
mad that youre not canon in Destiny like me?

Go on read the Salvagers Salvo loretab

[raw hazel]

Also Mael, is it Constant Guardian or Constant Gardener?

Or google might just be shitting the bed as usual…

[dim minnow]

I remember predicting that FWC would be involved in the season after Chosen and that they would be enemies