📚lore-discussion

[dim minnow]

I believe they made up a bit since then

Ghaul was born disfigured which caused him to be cast out from Cabal society

[honest snow]

if thats disfugured oh lord the average cabal must be "hear me out" material

[dim minnow]

he was left in the scorching wastelands of Torobatl where he met Consul, a former leading member of the Cabal who was heavily associated with the Praetorate (powerful military elite that ruled Torobatl before Calus took power)

Consul then gave Ghaul an offer, he would teach him how to fight and survive, and in exchange, he would be his vengeance towards Calus

you see, Calus' first act as Emperor was to clear out a massive space of land in the scorching desert of Torobatl where he had Consul stripped of name, rank, and ability to have children

then Calus sent him into exile

so Consul would be Ghaul's mentor and eventually, he would be sent back to civilization where he would start out as a gladiator in the arenas

his skill was enough to impress Calus, who decided to take him in

Ghaul would soon become a mentor for Caiatl and would grow to be a close friend to Calus

Calus would also make Ghaul the leader of his Red Legion which he created to make sure his rule would not be threatened

however, Ghaul would turn against Calus out of both his obligations to Consul and his disdain for what Calus was doing to the Cabal Empire

and then there came the infamous Midnight Coup where Ghaul and several others overthrew Calus and sent him into exile

then Ghaul would take up the role of Dominus as the new leader of the Cabal until his death by our hands

and that's pretty much Ghaul's backstory @shadow crypt

[shadow crypt]

Interesting

[keen obsidian]

Why do precursor vex look so clean but regular vex do not

[dim minnow]

Precursor are past Vex

Descendant Vex are future Vex

[empty fern]

The look grew on them

[chrome fog]

Wait doesn’t he describe the advisor also in great pain? I though the situation was both the Hive and the Advisor were undergoing some kind of harm and then Crow pulled the emergency stop, but didn’t know it would end up killing the advisor as the contingency

It’s been a while since I watched the cutscene though I could be totally misremembering

[versed orbit]

I remember it more so Crow mistakenly pulls the plug on the Psion thinking it’s in pain

But I haven’t watched the cutscene in ages either

[trim grotto]

neither

[versed orbit]

Or Crow had reservations about mind fucking hive guardians

[trim grotto]

that
so he stopped it and asked the Psion if it wanted to go get Ramen

then it fucking died

[versed orbit]

rip bro

[dim minnow]

once again I am reminded how massive the Dreadnaught is

[raw hazel]

do be be hecking huge

[raw hazel]

what the fuck

[dim minnow]

fucking

[raw hazel]

like what the actual fuck??

[dim minnow]

this damn thing is probably larger than any ship in Warhammer 40k

ok after a quick search, the largest ship in warhammer 40k is something called the Phalanx

which as far as I'm aware is only a little bit smaller than the first Death Star

nvm

[raw hazel]

what the fuck

[dim minnow]

still larger though

[raw hazel]

the dreadnaught literally do be built different

[rich veldt]

you not got that picture of kings fall mapped out do you? just to give context for those who might see this

[dim minnow]

?

[raw hazel]

That reminds me Dova

Do u know about the [REDACTED] character for the upcoming cosplay showcase?

[dim minnow]

no

[raw hazel]

ohohohohooo

[dim minnow]

what do you know?

[raw hazel]

Bungie's doing a cosplay showcase of on the 29th

Of people portraying different characters

lemme see if I can find the post...

[dim minnow]

oh I knew about that

[raw hazel]

Yiiiiissssss...

[dim minnow]

I just didn't know who the [REDACTED] character is

[raw hazel]

well, the cosplayer keeps teasing us

https://fxtwitter.com/danielledebs/status/1791656667337408773

I have my suspicions BUT I WANNA SEEEEEE

I am also curious to see how the Witness cosplay is pulled off

[rich veldt]

english is hard smh. i cant remember if it was you or mael but one of you had mapped out the kf route onto a photo of the dreadnaught

[dim minnow]

not me

[empty fern]

Oh the top right corner map
Image?

[rich veldt]

mayhaps

been a while since ive seen it

[iron mortar]

https://youtu.be/0B9v8VoZrMU?si=ZunvIP-MjRVwYW2s

Am I the only one who has a minor problem with the way mithrax tells this story, while although the house of light were innocent it paints a narrative as though Saint 14 hatred of the eilksni is unjustified when he has seen them eat children and try to destroy their city many times

While the house of light are innocent, there should be a point made about how the humanity fear of them is justified because of centuries of fallen attacks that almost cost humanity extinction

This is an old story but it is something I have thought for the last 3 years

[sinful pivot]

@trim grotto

why did the pyramid ships take away titan and stuff when BL launched

and also, is pantheon story relevant at all, the description implies it is, but i wasnt sure

[trim grotto]

The little lore bits in the TWID, yes, the actual activitiy, no

[trim grotto]

Like with Mars, the Witness was scouring their past in an attempt to find the Veil. It finished with Titan which is why it remains intact whereas Mars remains scarred, stolen by Savathûn before the Witness was done with it.

[sinful pivot]

thanks byf

[feral drift]

Why have we never seen xivu araths throne world?

[jagged badge]

Because we’ve never even faced her

[tawdry wigeon]

About the lore behind the spider like colourful hunter head exotic, is it supposed to be a mask painted to match the appearance of the elliksni, so whoever wore could go into the elliksni society without getting recognised?

[jagged badge]

Besides, with how they’ve described Xivu’s Throne, we’re definitely not seeing it in game

And now she’s banished from it anyway so

[feral drift]

Where would I find this explanation

[jagged badge]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/vii-xivu-arath-deathless#book-sororicide

[ember storm]

it was not justified for Saint to go and murder every single Eliksni he could find, children included

it was a literal crusade

[gaunt carbon]

sounds like the super gore nest from doom eternal

is the reason we may never see it because it's too... viscerally gross to be in a T game

[jagged badge]

Yeah

But also because Eris banished Xivu from her Throne anyway

[chrome fog]

The point is exactly that either side is exaggerated, as to that point Saint has been aggressive against House Light as he perceives Eliksni as only being a threat. The story is meant to highlight the daunting stigma against each other that House Light and the Last City have to overcome, whether that’s by earnest cooperation or understanding of their mutual fear of each other for the terror they are capable of

To which the Survivor’s Epitaph further elaborates with Shaxx and Mithrax sharing the things they regret doing in the name of survival, namely Shaxx killing beggars on his territory and Mithrax letting human prisoners out the airlock to avoid having to feed them
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/survivors-epitaph#

Mithrax struggles pretty heavily with his fellow Eliksni and his own actions in the past in recognizing this anger, this entitlement the Eliksni had towards the Great Machine, the Traveler, is only leading down darker and darker roads, to the point that they are in strife against each other.

But a very very important part of the Splicer narrative was the citizens of the Last City being stirred up by past history/trauma, the Endless Night simulation over the entire City driving everyone to act on their worse desires, and Lakshmi-2 egging them on to kick the Eliksni out because she thinks the Vex prediction device is telling her that they will lead to a conflict within the Last City’s walls, despite the fact they are literally relegated to the bombed out district of the Last City

[fiery copper]

We never fought her directly, and at the moment it no longer exists.

[raw hazel]

Pretty sure it still exists, Xivu was just banished from it.

[feral drift]

Sounds very gorey

[gentle geyser]

“They haven’t done anything but their kind has done bad things so lets kill them”

[tawdry wigeon]

Whats the k1 artifact??

Ik its the black thing in the anomaly

But what is it?

[ember storm]

I think the current idea is that it’s kind of the same kind of device we find at the end of Shadowkeep

[gaunt carbon]

it's a darkness artifact that drives people insane but it led clovis bray to discover the darkness statue on europa

other than that there's not much known

[tawdry wigeon]

The darkness statue? The one we get the power from the splinters?

[gaunt carbon]

no the one in clarity

in the deep stone crypt

i thinki it's that one specifically

[tawdry wigeon]

Wdym in shadowkeep?

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhh okokok got it

Btw

In mars, in the door beyond the enclave it's floating items on an endless dark empty space

What's that about?

[trim grotto]

Shooting range.

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh that's just it?

[grand jungle]

Is it possible for Rhulk to get a ghost ?

[raw hazel]

Well

Considering the Traveler boomed the last Ghost that Rhulk tried to snatch...

[gentle geyser]

Absolutely not

Traveler absolutely despises rhulk, but on top of that, his body got practically vaporized by a sparrow explosion

[trim grotto]

His entire body wasn't on the Sparrow

[gentle geyser]

Anyways unrelated, do we have lore on the scourge of the past berserkers? Ive never seen anyone talk about them and it seems like they’ve been forgotten

[trim grotto]

No.

[gentle geyser]

Rip

[versed orbit]

just fallen augmented with BA tech

[serene swift]

What

Did a sparrow beat rhulk

[chrome fog]

Remember that one person insisting there was something behind it? I wish we had an answer to what they are but legit they're just there

[trim grotto]

No.

[ember storm]

it was a small sample and more of the weird vines than actual corpse

[serene swift]

What happened with the sparrow thing then, or at least how did it happen

[ember storm]

blewed up

something something smuggler contingency or whatever

[willow dagger]

Does Savalah (vanguard guy) have a super??

Like what’s his story?

[empty fern]

He used arc when the wall was built, he used bubble in red war, and idk about solar

(Bionic type your paragraphs faster)

[jagged badge]

Zavala

[chrome fog]

Zavala; Titan Vanguard as well as essentially head of the Vanguard organization, which after the other factions of the Concensus either sided and were dissolved with Lakshmi-2 (FWC leader) or ditched the Sol System with Dead Orbit, means he is also head of the Last City. Ironically this situation was what the Consensus was formed to prevent, having the Guardians as head of the Last City's government out of concerns that they wouldn't be able to empathize with the non-lightbearer mortals housed in the Last City

[jagged badge]

That is a whole lot of nothing relevant to the question

[chrome fog]

Second message

#📚lore-discussion message

[jagged badge]

Shhhh

I’m a Destiny player

I can’t read

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-phillips-boat-hijack-im-the-captain-now-barkhad-look-at-me-gif-4242563

Funnii

I was gonna detail more on Zavala's personal history but I'm missing bits and I'm kinda lazy + need to do a programming assignment by Tuesday

sparknotes version, even as an Awoken before he died and resurrected he was as much of a stickler, helped defend lightless humans during the Dark Age and helped with the early settlers that would eventually establish the Last City, in that time prior to the City Age he found a wife - Safiya - and adopted a son with her - Hakim - but then lost them both

[jagged badge]

To be clear, Hakim died in a Fallen raid and Safiyah lived but they separated due to the grief. Zavala couldn’t get over it and blamed himself and all that

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/calus-booblehead-booblehead-calus-destiny2-gif-25794461

[chrome fog]

Goober boober

[steep abyss]

Are the cabal aliens or just super roided out humans

Nevermind I'm dumb

Clearly they're aliens

This has been Ant's lore seminar hope you all enjoyed

[jagged badge]

[eager trout]

Why are Tormentors called [Something] of Nezarec?

I mean, I know Nezarec is basically a beefed up Tormentor, based on Root of Nightmares

[jagged badge]

Tormentors are based on Nezarec

[eager trout]

As in...design-wise, or in-universe?

[jagged badge]

The latter

[eager trout]

What does latter mean again?

[trim grotto]

Latter as in late
The second thing mentioned

[eager trout]

Ok

Based as in just that the Witness decided to give them the appearance of Nezarec, or that they're basically clones of Nezarec?

And why Nezarec specifically?

[empty fern]

Pain boi

[chrome fog]

Calus, in the opening mission of Lightfall's campaign, declares them the result of his alliance with the Witness, and Calus is known for utilizing clone technology to fill out his forces. This leads us to the inference that the Witness provided Calus with some material of Nezarec's body for him to clone with, producing the Tormentors. This is not explicitly stated anywhere but is most likely the conclusion we are meant to draw.

[trim grotto]

Make soldiers based on your lead general

[chrome fog]

Also not like Rhulk was available at the moment

His Pyramid was in Savathun's throneworld

[eager trout]

But isn't Nezarec...dead?

[chrome fog]

[trim grotto]

I'm confused by your timeline here

[eager trout]

When did Nezarec die (if he did)?

[chrome fog]

As well as how that'd in someway mean that it would be impossible for Calus to clone someone if theyre dead

[trim grotto]

He's died at least... fourteen times

Firstly, yes - clones can be made from dead people. In fact, that's exactly what Calus did.

Secondly, Nezarec died during the Collapse, and then again after the Lightfall campaign in Root of Nightmares Raid.

[eager trout]

And the other 12 times?

[trim grotto]

[eager trout]

Somehow, Nezarec returned...

[chrome fog]

The exotic seasonpass weapon for Plunder - the Delicate Tomb - describes Nezarec's fourth tomb in its extremely vague and ominous lore entry, and the fact he even has a voiceline after defeating him in Root of Nightmares insinuates that he is still alive

[chrome fog]

The joke works better with Taniks or Kelgorath

Nezarec is too much of an unknown for that to work

[eager trout]

How does he come back then?

[chrome fog]

We don't know, that's the

That's

[trim grotto]

Apart from RoN, we don't know. RoN was due to the Traveler's terraforming beam, though.

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny-2-nezarec-meme-gif-14614236036991839273

[eager trout]

So "somehow"

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-root-of-nightmares-lightfall-disciple-the-witness-gif-15714594593320992912

I’d like to believe it was also traveler beam

Since the tree (or tendril?) stuff pierced his little, cube coffin thing

[raw hazel]

Tbh it would make no sense if it wasn't.

[eager trout]

Traveler when her beam revived one of the Light's greatest enemies on top of not doing anything:

[trim grotto]

Well, it did shatter the Witness's Pyramid.

[empty fern]

Nah

It terraformed it

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-lightfall-the-witness-darkness-pyramid-gif-27216798

[eager trout]

Which didn't affect the Witness in any way and instead just revived Nezarec

[trim grotto]

Yep.

[eager trout]

Also, did Nezarec still have memories after being revived or was it like the Guardians?

[trim grotto]

He did.

[empty fern]

Don’t think nezerac had a ghost ()

[eager trout]

So the Light is able to restore memories or only on special cases and recent deaths?

[empty fern]

Special cases

[trim grotto]

Nezarec wasn't resurrected solely due to the Light. He has come back to life numerous times. There's a decent chance that this assault of Light broke the wards Savathûn placed upon his corpse when she killed him prior, as well as imbuing him with a combination of Light with the Dark he already had.

[empty fern]

Real question was if nezzys hammy thing was affected by the light

[trim grotto]

Nezarec also wasn't recently deceased. At that time he had been dead for centuries.

[eager trout]

(Or a Hive)

[chrome fog]

Point is, like the Emperor, we’ve met Taniks and Kelgorath before and taken them out, and they came back despite that.

Nezarec was barely present in the lore until the build up to Lightfall, and we face him only once.

[jagged badge]

We don’t particularly need to see this here thanks

[chrome fog]

Additional to this <#📚lore-discussion message>, one of these entries describe him as of Light and Darkness in flowery prose, which is likely how he’d persisted with what we learn about the nature of Darkness in Lightfall

[chrome fog]

To reiterate

we really don’t need this in here

[dim minnow]

just popped in, do I really want to know?

[ember storm]

what did I miss

[jagged badge]

Ehhh

[raw hazel]

You don't want to know.

https://tenor.com/view/atlantis-you-dont-wanna-know-secret-disney-shouldnt-have-told-me-gif-17814673

[dim minnow]

screw it, dm me what it was

[raw hazel]

Considering it nearly made me puke, no thanks

[dim minnow]

I've probably seen worse

[gaunt carbon]

it wasn't that bad just did not belong in this channel

anyways

[dim minnow]

something tells me it was something that didn't even belong in this server

[jagged badge]

It’s relatively bad. As in, for some it will be very bad and some won’t be bothered by it

[jagged badge]

Want me to DM you?

[gaunt carbon]

i mean you could make that argument but anyways lore lore lore lore

[jagged badge]

The Cow Thing

[raw hazel]

COWTHING

love the cow thing

[dim minnow]

sure

[jagged badge]

Restoration

[dim minnow]

Radiant

[ember storm]

woven mail

[gentle geyser]

Frost armor

[chrome fog]

I got you

Oh Eris did

[tardy kraken]

Lore

[trim grotto]

Lore indeed

[empty fern]

No Lore

[shadow crypt]

How many people were on the ship that later became the awoken?

[trim grotto]

Two became four, and the four called out, and so the four became eight. In this manner, conjured forth by their doubling, the sleepers did awaken. In time the awoken spilled across the face of the world, and their number was forty thousand eight hundred ninety one.

[shadow crypt]

Thanks

Also does the 30th anniversary stuff play a part in lore?

[trim grotto]

Not really, no.

[shadow crypt]

The dungeon isn’t canon?

About the dude losing his mind over the treasure or something

[trim grotto]

It may be canon but it's largely unexplained and the environmental storytelling doesn't match the audio logs

[shadow crypt]

Starhorse isn’t canon

[trim grotto]

You can see it from the Cosmodrome though

Way off over the cliff

[chrome fog]

Not even explained by the crystals overgrowing from the number of occupants’ greed as is implied?

[dim minnow]

there's already implications of some wacky fantasy stuff going on in-universe

like that one Tower PA message that talks about some Warlick's engram melting through a table or some unidentified ceature on the loose

not to mention some of the D1 artifacts

like the Damned Lute

[trim grotto]

Not really an explanation is it
It's a result

[empty fern]

Phyazria is the ogre ikora blasts in wq (atleast in name from the score) and averokk, is probably only in avarice

[dim minnow]

that was most likely a bug anyways

since I recall Phyazira in the dungeon being renamed to Ravenous Ogre

[empty fern]

True

[ripe warren]

What are the veiled threats supposed to be

[empty fern]

A threat from the veil
OR
A hidden threat
(We don’t actually know)

[ripe warren]

Maybe they’ll drip feed the dread into patrol zones?

[empty fern]

Honestly?

It’s new content so, sure

[fast crane]

Who's the weird white sparkling soul guy on the moon that screams at me all the time to listen to him?

[empty fern]

Usually says the names at the top right of the screen

His name is Toland

The shattered

[trim grotto]

Tormentors! In the Dreaming City, for example!

They're there right now

[ripe warren]

You talking about that public event?

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny-the-witness-witness-zoom-meeting-gif-27567126

This is the veil

A reflection of the mind

[blazing stream]

No one:
The Witness speed running the World Peace hivemind internet:

[blazing stream]

Mara Sov finally patching the mess in the Dreaming City only for 80 more to appear

[tired lava]

Chat so what are Dredgens again, asking for a friend

Can you essentially say that they're are this dimension's version of a Darth Sith Lord or nah

[trim grotto]

No.

So:

[tired lava]

Naurrr

[trim grotto]

There's the original Dredgen, Dredgen Yor. The most infamous ex-Guardian mass murderer of Lightbearers and mortals that the Earth had ever seen, corrupted by Hive magic, and the wielder of the original Light-eating Thorn.

Being killed by Thorn would kill a Lightbearer outright, for good, even if their Ghost survived.

[tired lava]

and that the thorns we see are shrimply replicas right

[trim grotto]

Yes, created by the Dredgens that followed Yor after his death at the hands of Shin Malphur, AKA The Man With The Golden Gun.

[tired lava]

so we do not know the whereabouts of the OG Thorn or?

[trim grotto]

Hahaha well

Yes, we do

[rigid flower]

I see some people claiming that Rhulk is the weakest of the three disciples. Any thoughts on this?

[trim grotto]

objectively incorrect

[tired lava]

whos got it?

[trim grotto]

which i shall prove shortly

[tired lava]

is it Shin?

[rigid flower]

I wait in anticipation.

[trim grotto]

He did, but now, we do! We found Thorn blackened, burned, destroyed. We began the slow and arduous process of purifying it, turning it back into Rose (the gun it was before the cursed Hive chitin was grafted to it), and from there, we turned it...

Into Lumina.

[tired lava]

oh yeah

Lumina

[trim grotto]

These Dredgens were those who sought power in the Darkness and wanted to follow in Yor's footsteps. Willingly corrupted Guardians, power hungry. The combined efforts of Drifter and Shin Malphur had us reclaim the title of Dredgen for ourselves, to learn to tinker with Darkness without corruption - see Malfeasance.

Those lost Guardians who still sought more power and corruption and Darkness and didn't care what they had to do it joined the Shadows of Yor - those who sought to go even further beyond the power of Dredgen Yor.

However, Shin Malphur was playing the long game. It was he who set up the Shadows of Yor, and it allowed him to keep track of those who ventured beyond their limits - and put them down.

[tired lava]

Yeah ion gonna lie to u brodie

Dredgens are starting to sound more and more like Darth Sith Lords

Cause think abt it

Jedi = Guardians
Sith Lords = Former Guardians/Dredgens

[trim grotto]

Dredgens are us now, we reclaimed the title.

Shadows of Yor are those who seek power in the Dark, regardless of corruption, but put themselves into danger because now Shin knew exactly who to hunt down and kill.

[tired lava]

ok I see

Is Shin ghost less?

[trim grotto]

Yes. He had one as a literal baby, though it died months later.

[trim grotto]

Amusingly, this is from one of the Pantheon TWIDs.

[tired lava]

Is Shin dead?

Or currently in the shadows

[dim minnow]

as far as we know, Shin is retired

[trim grotto]

He is... sort of retired.

[tired lava]

Ah

Well....

Isnt Saint technically retired?

yet he be helping?

[dim minnow]

he did his job, he paved the way for Guaridans to use Light and Dark

[tired lava]

or?

[dim minnow]

he's no longer acting as Titan Vanguard, but he does do work like run the Trials of Osiris

[tired lava]

I see

[dim minnow]

and even takes to the field

[rigid flower]

Yeah that's what I thought. People were going on saying "Calus and Nezarec would one tap him" which just sounds completely unbelievable.

[tired lava]

Cause you'd think that actual legends like Shin would yknow

[trim grotto]

In a way, I suppose. He's certainly not Vanguard anymore. However, he's in a similar state to Lord Shaxx - not doing much field work (though he does do field work) and instead is training Guardians.

[tired lava]

at least attempt to help

cause of Witness etc

[dim minnow]

I think Saint was actually involved in the early fighting in Lightfall

[trim grotto]

Nezarec was, to be fair, the lead general of the Black Fleet during the Collapse.

[tired lava]

I see

[rigid flower]

He's also possibly unkillable.

[tired lava]

thanks for info chat

[dim minnow]

I wonder if the Witness just thought Rhulk would fuck it up

hmmm

we don't know how long ago Rhulk was sent to babysit Savathun right?

[trim grotto]

Possibly. It's hard to say how this new form will affect that, particularly given that we have no idea how he came back each other time.

[dim minnow]

because if it was before the Collapse, then how come Rhulk knew none of it?

like, he knew nothing of Savathun's deception with killing Nezarec

[rigid flower]

Might it be safe to assume it was after? Perhaps Nezarec somehow informed the Witness or Rhulk of her betrayal without knowing about her intentions with the veil?

[dim minnow]

the Witness didn't even know where the Veil was until Lightfall began

[rigid flower]

I thought they had the veil and then Savathun hid it.

[dim minnow]

and Savathun didn't make her stance against the Witness clear until Arrivals

[trim grotto]

Oryx was alive at the time, so there's that.

[dim minnow]

Nezarec had the Veil, but then Savathun killed him, cursed his remains, and then stole the Veil and hid it on Neptune

[rigid flower]

Yeah nevermind, theory kinda loses when when Nezarec himself had it.

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/resonant-fury-robes
Okay, so it was before the Collapse.

[dim minnow]

I mean, Rhulk being busy training Savathun would be the reason why Nezarec was sent to Sol

so it lends credence to the idea that Rhulk was with Savathun since before the Collapse

but it still begs the question, how did she get away with it?

hmmm

[trim grotto]

I'm not terribly surprised that the Queen of Deceit was able to trick and circumvent the brutish straight forward "planning" of Rhulk. There's a reason why he was the one being punished by her "babysitting".

[dim minnow]

yeah

Rhulk wasn;t even allowed to leave her THrone World often

or he just didn't leave it often

[trim grotto]

Aye. In her own Throne, she could have easily misled him, I'm sure.

His arrogance was vast, even to her.

[dim minnow]

still though, massive fuck up on the WItness' end

like almost idiot plot levels

[trim grotto]

To be fair, she was meant to be on its side as well.

[dim minnow]

the Witness really thought she would settle with being a disciple

you know, I'm still wondering if something happened with her during the Golden Amputation

[trim grotto]

Well heck, look at Calus

What happened to "I will be the last."

[dim minnow]

couldn't even bring himself to commit to that bit

lazy fuck

[dim minnow]

correction, I meant the fall of the Gift Mast

Xivu Arath kills the wishful bishops, and Savathûn achieves some secret purpose, and Oryx’s Court tears down the Gift Mast. The Harmony people wail in terror, and they throw themselves into the silver lakes of Ana-Harmony to drown.

“Come,” sayeth Oryx, “eat of the Gift Mast, for I am a generous god. Of its pieces, I claim only two out of every five.”

The Mast is full of the Light of the Traveler, it is full of the marrow taste of Sky. All who eat of it are filled with the ecstatic certainty that they serve a great and necessary purpose.

Then sayeth Savathûn, “Siblings, listen, we must part ways a while, so that we may grow different.” She flies her war-moons into the black hole. Her throne becomes distant.

note the second paragraph

"Savathun achieves some secret purpose"

could it be that she met the Witness?

or was this when she decided that she would stand against it?

[indigo ermine]

how does crow feel about us knowing we killed him?

i feel like he mentioned it somewhere but i cant find it

[empty fern]

Probably somewhere in haunted. Or beforehand (like hawkmoon timeframe)

[little gorge]

i thought that was much later

[tawdry wigeon]

Is elio the first awoken queen?

[hollow hinge]

It was Petra

[jagged badge]

It’s implied to be both of us

[hollow hinge]

There was dialogue between the two quite recently, no?

[jagged badge]

Confirming that she shot him yes. But it doesn’t deny that we did also

[hollow hinge]

Ehhh

We heard the one gunshot

[jagged badge]

We heard a weird gunshot that didn’t sound like either Ace or Vestian in particular

The cutscene is intended to be ambiguous so that you can have a degree of headcanon into the agency of your Guardian in that moment

[hollow hinge]

Yes I agree with that

Until they had Petra confirm she shot him

That throws that ambiguity out the window for me

I don't see our guardian going "Heyyyy I was gonna do that" and then shoot after he was already dead

yes the gunshot didn't sound like either of the 2 guns but it was still very clearly one gunshot

[remote sky]

Im bored
Want.
Lore :D

[ember storm]

the sound design was specifically engineered to have elements of vestian and ace

also the "confirmation" you're talking about is literally just crow saying "you shot me" while he's talking to both us and petra

[trim grotto]

one layered gunshot

it isn't confirmed though, and it's been implied we both did it
it's still floaty, as intended

[ember storm]

it is left ambigous, as is our guardian's origin, name, appearance, etc

[trim grotto]

Alis Li. I... don't know who Elio is.

Wait, do you mean Sjur Eido?

[ember storm]

sjur ello ello

wots all dis

[tawdry wigeon]

Yeaa

[trim grotto]

Sjur Eido was Mara Sov's partner.

The Queen's Wrath before Petra.

[tawdry wigeon]

Ahh i confused them then

[jagged badge]

https://youtu.be/Kf2bVQLEEcI?si=-lGqDstM_CVOFKfZ

That one is definitely directed at Petra herself

We’re just hearing these conversations when we really probably shouldn’t be sometimes

[trim grotto]

To me it still leaves the "you both did it" thing open, which is what I always headcanoned

[ornate bough]

Have we ever seen regular vex attack members of the sol divisive?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[ember storm]

personally, no I don’t we’ve seen it

but it happens

[trim grotto]

I'm fairly sure we've seen it before, I just don't quite recall where.

[jagged badge]

Oh yeah for sure

But just pointing out how there absolute is dialogue confirming that Petra did it

It’s just our own agency which is left up to personal choice

[ember storm]

I mean I don’t think anybody was debating “I think Petra spared him”

the point of contention is whether or not we joined in

[fresh zephyr]

Is a fully developed nezerac stronger than rhulk

[trim grotto]

We can't really say.

[ember storm]

he has better gains

[languid dawn]

Hey what is the “Luster” that’s is mentioned so much in the Rhulk lore book

[trim grotto]

The basic answer is that it's a form of Darkness the Witness granted Rhulk.

[ember storm]

he just calls it that

[languid dawn]

That’s confusing, it sounds too much like the light

[ember storm]

I mean that’s kind of the point

he views a gift from the witness as equivalent to or even better than the light

[viscid abyss]

If osiris doesn’t have a guardian, can he die from old age?

[trim grotto]

A Ghost, you mean?
We don't actually know if Lightlost age. Our only true point of reference is Eris Morn, who is not a particularly good control.

[viscid abyss]

Yes a ghost

[tired lava]

Chat

If a Void Titan throws his shield

and another Guardian deflects that Void shield

will that Void Titan be able to get the shield back like Mjolnir

or no

[ornate bough]

I think the projectile would become hostile once it’s reflected

So no

I don’t think so

[tired lava]

Theoretically speaking

I (A void titan) throws a void shield at Darth Vader

and Darth Vader reflects it

its gone right

[ornate bough]

I guess

[tired lava]

thanks for info boss

[ornate bough]

You’re welcome

[chrome fog]

Could probably dissipate it or allow it to persist even when handled by someone else. Saint and Shaxx toss each other Saint's void shield in a lore tab

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/second-chance

(also a good illustration of that discussion yesterday regarding Saint's depiction as a monster in the Eliksni's eyes)

[iron mortar]

https://youtu.be/Lzm-aDT3i3k?si=cpoEZj381aQGQM6Z
I was watching this jez video, and I feel really bad for bungie employees as It is amazing game but is constantly being fucked by upper management suits who probably never touched a fun video game, and Mael is right and I doubt bungie devs want any bad things in the game and upper management is what fucks over the game

upper management is what made the destiny what it is for the last 10 years

imagine if bungie had full control and maybe destiny would have the best game at launch every year

[cursive falcon]

I have a small lore question while i know power scaling is hard and confusing, Who would win in a 1v1 Between Shaxx and Saint-14 in like a colosseum like duel?

[iron mortar]

I would give it to Saint-14

[cursive falcon]

I would pay to see that match im ngl

[iron mortar]

he is still really active while shaxx doesn't really fight anymore

[blazing wasp]

i believe he still participates in crucible matches, and he very much fights still

just to what extent, and where, i dont fully know

[chrome fog]

Shaxx was still a Warlord from the Dark Ages, and his defiance against orders to retreat was what allowed a victory at Six Fronts.
Saint-14 has been noted to also have been crucial to the victory at Six Fronts and after that conflict even went on a crusade against any and all Eliksni, purportedly having destroyed a couple Houses, not to mention his long stint in the Vex Network, persisting even with the loss of his Light.

It’s fairly even between the two, both of their wills are, whilst weighed down by past sins and doubts of whether they are capable of being icons for other Guardians to follow and be inspired by, indomitable

Read this entry for more #📚lore-discussion message

[jagged badge]

Twilight Gap

Not Six Fronts

[dreamy patio]

a bit out of the blue but, DO we know why Veritas weapons look the way they are?, like, i don't have a problem with it. infact i really like what they did here but like, why do they look like this?

[plain topaz]

Wait if nezarec was entombed in the lunar pyramid. Then how in the heck is he on the witnesses pyramid

[ember storm]

his corpse was excavated a long time ago

the fallen butchered him up and scattered the pieces across the system

we eventually recovered most of his body, but the witness got a hold of the most important thing, his head

with that he was able to rise again

[dreamy patio]

so nothing

[empty fern]

We don’t know
Maybe it’s just how the hidden like weapons, maybe it’s just like mida tool where it does a bunch of stuff

[dreamy patio]

god damnit bungie

why do you have to keep shit open ended

[ember storm]

I mean

[covert stone]

My personal theory on why the weapons look like that is that they're meant to look like a chemistry set what with all the elements on the guns

[ember storm]

its designed after that specifically yes

alchemy theme shared with the armor

[chrome fog]

It’s perfectly fine for it to be solely for aesthetics reasons, otherwise why not have every rocket launcher be a Gjally knockoff if it’s so effective

[covert stone]

Sometimes, a weapons manufacturer really wants a gun made in an era of lasers and space powers to fire 21st century bullets in a 19th century lever-action rifle

[dreamy patio]

i mean, i don't have a problem with the veritas weapons, infact, i kinda wish they did more stuff like that with expansion weapons (i'm looking at you Lightfall)

[rich veldt]

the luna guns they had work perfectly fine, they just modded them a bit and made them look cooler

[dreamy patio]

they could've made cooler custom ones though

not just the luna guns but N E O N

Like this for example

[rich veldt]

why waste time on that tho, just mod what you got

[dreamy patio]

Mod?

dude, there aint no mods for destiny 2

[rich veldt]

as in modify

thats what the neomuni did

im not talking about actual players, the lore of the neomuna guns is they had the same guns they used on luna, they took them and modified them with some nanotech rockets n stuff, then gave a fresh look

[chrome fog]

Shared frames for certain weapons is a very particular phenomenon

Just like Stasis mentioned

[ripe warren]

Have they announced the season finale mission is tomorrow?

[jagged badge]

There was a message on the “next week in Destiny” popup thingy saying that “Veiled threats emerge” so

[rich veldt]

theres nothing confirmed, as eris said there was the message in the "next week in destiny" popup but even then that could be a warm up for the finale

[ripe warren]

So it’s just a rumor at this point

Or speculation

[raw hazel]

Aye

We don't know what it is explicitly, but it's probably the finale. Idk what else it would be.

[ripe warren]

Why not just save the finale for the final reset of the season?

[jagged badge]

So people have more time to experience it

Get the associated triumphs and potential reward

[covert stone]

Having it a week before the final week means they can fix any potential issues it might have

[ripe warren]

Maybe it’ll be some dread popping up in patrol zones? That would be dope

[raw hazel]

Plus yeah, gives more people more time to play it. It's only a good thing.

[rich veldt]

that fucking door moment

like 500k seraph towers cause the millions were too high of a target then we got stopped by a fucking door

[gaunt carbon]

i doubt there's any reason deeper than the fact that the manufacturer of the weapons had a design philosophy that carried itself through their work

aka they had a specific style they liked

[gentle geyser]

Because why add content that lasts 7 days only

What if someone is on vacation

[ripe warren]

You think people will be playing that over onslaught, pantheon and zero hour?

[gentle geyser]

Yes?

That also doesn’t change the fact that its being developed which still takes time and has rewards

[chrome fog]

And it's not like it'll take that long

It's like 30 minutes at worst

[gentle geyser]

We know it has a ship and I believe theres supposed to be an emblem tied to it

So even then people will want to play it for at least the rewards

My bet is it’ll probably cliffhanger us on the moment of going into the traveler

[ripe warren]

Damn people being rude over my opinion. Sums up the destiny community right there.

[gentle geyser]

Im a rude person but even that was meant to be rude

[dim minnow]

well, Bungie did mention in the Into the Light streams that while Onslaught will be focused around Hive and Fallen, the Taken would be busy doing something else in the meantime

so I'd wager that the Wish finale will be Taken-focused

maybe we will get a sneak peek at some Dread

like a subjugator or something

but I'm fully expecting it to just be Taken

[gentle geyser]

Nah

Wouldn’t expect them to be coded in yet

[dim minnow]

yeah exactly

[gentle geyser]

Honestly I dislike how two of the dread enemies are just straight up from a different faction

The psions

[dreamy patio]

iit makes more sense when you think of it, remember the psions worshiped nezarec

[gentle geyser]

Eh

[dreamy patio]

a litteral disciple

so it makes sense they are assimilating themselfs with the black fleet

[gentle geyser]

The issue I have with it being the fact that there are 3 factions with them now

[dreamy patio]

3, you mean two, the shadow legion is still cabal

[gentle geyser]

No, 3

[ripe warren]

He’s talking about taken, cabal and now the dread

[dreamy patio]

the taken has EVERYTHING, of course it consumed the psions

cmon now

[gentle geyser]

Its just thematically lame because the dread are all crafted beings with some roots basing them off of existing species

Then theres just psions

[dreamy patio]

think of the psions as footsoldiers, there the grunts of the reformed Black Fleet

[gentle geyser]

That makes it worse though

[dreamy patio]

because

[gentle geyser]

Your trying to make a point that it makes sense in lore without factoring in the fact that its just lame as hell to reuse a species for 3 different factions

[ember storm]

I mean here’s the thing

Subjugators being Rhulk based and Tormentors being Nez based means the witness valued key specific parts of them, right?

[gentle geyser]

Yes

[ember storm]

what’s the only valuable thing Calus has over those two?

psionic powers

only possible through actual Psions

[gentle geyser]

Im not denying that

[ember storm]

so why not make augmented Psions

[dreamy patio]

psions make a logical sense, they worshiped nezarec, so they joined the black fleet

[gentle geyser]

My complaint is that they are actually just psions

[ember storm]

instead of what would be essentially worthless in the form of Calus copies

[gentle geyser]

Like, literally reusing the animations and still look like psions too

[ember storm]

did you know tormentors copy nez animations

crazy

[gentle geyser]

Thats not remotely the same situation because they were made in the same dlc and are obviously meant to be the same, where as the psions, are literally just psions

[ember storm]

look we’re getting entirely new dreads too I wouldn’t be pressed about the couple that aren’t as fresh

[dreamy patio]

do you not notice the stasis and strand going around them, they are clearly augmented

[chrome fog]

That worship doesn't necessarily equate to them being a key part of its forces, more so supports Waltz' point that their only value is through their psionic abilities

[ember storm]

like the thing with the wings

and that swarmer type

be happy about those

[gentle geyser]

Husk on top

[ripe warren]

Did you complain about the scorn with Forsaken?

[ember storm]

I complained because there wasn’t enough body horror

most of them are just ugly dregs

[gentle geyser]

Yes I have but let me make a very obvious point why it doesn’t matter, the enemies work entirely different on both a gameplay level and animation level

Where as the psions, are literally just psions but with strand and stasis

[ripe warren]

I think you like to complain just to complain

[gentle geyser]

Its a pretty valid complaint

They are just pretty damn lame compared to the rest of the faction

[ripe warren]

I think you should actually play against the enemies in the expansion before judging them

[gentle geyser]

Not once did I mention anything about gameplay

I get thats Im an asshole and you want to dislike me but can you think of something good before telling me Im wrong or that you disagree

[ripe warren]

Because if someone brings up a good counter argument you’ll just scoff at it and call people an idiot like you just did.

[gentle geyser]

My man my argument is entirely valid and not about gameplay at all

They will be perfectly fine when playing the game

[ripe warren]

You can have your opinion all you want but don’t be an arrogant ass about it

[gentle geyser]

My man Im the chill one for once

All Ive said is that they are just lame

[chrome fog]

I think this is straying from discussion and devolved into argument

It’s pedantic to argue on the lameness of a faction without accepting disagreement and taking it as personal attack, to which Ganon brings up the valid point that we haven’t even fought the Dread yet, the Psions might be the same, they might be different, they might take different priority with the new enemy types being introduced

[ripe warren]

It has which is why I’m saying nothing more on the matter

[chrome fog]

That’s fair and I think you’re in the right for suggesting that we haven’t given the new Psions time to shine considering they’re not even in game

As for them being lame for simply being derivative of an existing faction, the premise of their existence is still compelling and places them on an alternate exploration of the universe through the lens of such

But again that’s entirely opinionated and thus has to allow a difference to perspective from others

[chrome fog]

So simmer a bit, more than usual

[gentle geyser]

Destiny lore fans when they see an enemy that reuses the exact same animations, similar appearance, and same species as another faction
(They gonna find some three paragraph lore type from a shitty sniper rifle to explain why it makes sense)

[raw hazel]

If you want to be needlessly reductive sure, but go off I guess.

[ripe warren]

I wasn’t expecting a new enemy race in the final shape at all. But they took the time and did that. So I applaud them for that.

[raw hazel]

Practically no one was, I am also pleasantly surprised.

[velvet hawk]

By like in destiny universe time

How much time has passed since the witness and a few of their ships launched themselves into the twisted dimension

[jagged badge]

Same time as irl

[velvet hawk]

Do like 6 months ?

[jagged badge]

Roughly anyway

[jagged badge]

It’s been far longer than 6 months since Lightfall

[velvet hawk]

So a year....

[jagged badge]

Year and a half almost

[velvet hawk]

Wow... so they are just slow af at completing a plan

Unless time works differently in there ?

[jagged badge]

[ember storm]

or you know it’s pretty complicated changing the entirety of existence

doubt it’s as simple as typing in a console command

[jagged badge]

It’s probably easy for Bungie to make a reason for it having took this long tbh

[chrome fog]

Simmer or get off for a little bit, you are making a bigger deal out of reused assets when there is already an abundance of new enemies in the upcoming dlc. If you can’t take that point of conjecture reconsider how you approach discussion

[dreamy patio]

blud think bungie can just make a new enemy faction never before seen off the bat for every expansion 😭 🙏

[empty fern]

I want lore about traumatic event where some eliksni has to fight someone they knew (but they were taken, bungie pls)

[weak prawn]

Hey are the hive trans dimensional?

[chrome fog]

There's good reason for concern with reused assets but it's also nothing

[chrome fog]

I mean. well, the Throneworlds of Ascendent Hive lay within the Ascendent Plane, which is sort of a secondary layer to reality. There is also the Vex Network which is noted to occupy a similar space - heck, Crota got baited by Sav into opening a breach in Oryx's Throneworld that the Vex began to pour from - and the Weave, a psychic layer to reality which connects to everything, an underlying fabric that we are able to manipulate with Strand

[trim grotto]

Tl;Dr
Not naturally no, unless they become very powerful

[shadow crypt]

Is Torobatl still there?

[chrome fog]

The Awoken are also able to navigate through the Ascendent Plane through the Ley Lines - which are controlled by the Blind Well, - as well as their origins in the mini-universe that resulted from the clash of the Traveler's beam of Light and the Pyramid's Darkness blast thing

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ripe warren]

What is trans dimensional

[chrome fog]

Are they able to transport across dimensions

[weak prawn]

Like spiderverse

[chrome fog]

In that case no; Star Horse is

[raw hazel]

The 🏳️‍⚧️ dimension

(This was funnier in my head)

[chrome fog]

It was good

[trim grotto]

Dimensional folds aren't the same as a multiverse

It's more like layers of the same universe

[shadow crypt]

Does the Witness control the Taken as well as the Shadow Legion?

[trim grotto]

Where's that Petra quote

[chrome fog]

If you want multiverse, then you'd want to be looking at Dares and the Paraverse, Bungie's own multiverse

[chrome fog]

Yes; aside from just being able to create Taken either the way the Nine do/did and just taking any random enemy, all existing Taken bend their will towards the closest most powerful will. This is how Hefned was able to control the Taken into killing all of House of Kings in the Warlord's Ruin dungeon.

For the Shadow Legion, uuuuh they're already not totally there, idk, they're probably deferring to the other leadership over their collective group

[trim grotto]

Does someone want to link the stack of coins quite regarding the dimensional layers
I can't really do that easily on mobile and I'm at work to boot

[fast crane]

So I did the mission final wish and don't really get it

Did we kill those giant worm things ?

[trim grotto]

Do you mean... the Ahamkara?

[fast crane]

I think so

[trim grotto]

Ahamkara are shape shifting, wish granting, "dragons". They were wiped out centuries ago by the Guardians in an event known as The Great Hunt due to the dangers they posed.

Riven in particular was the last known Ahamkara, and Taken by Oryx. We slew her in the Last Wish Raid.

[raw hazel]

mael

[dim minnow]

hey, sorry it took me so long to get around to this

[naive raptor]

that is amazing!!!!

[chrome fog]

Where and whence should one find the stack of coins explanation

[raw hazel]

THE STACK OF COINS

I know that reference

That waaaaas

In

Lost?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI96GrVnSf0

[languid dawn]

Why is Rhulk powerful exactly? He got no buildup in the witch queen campaign, he has the planet buster Upended which is powered by NOT him, and his encounter isn’t even that hard. I don’t get it.

[dim minnow]

lore-wise, he was empowered by the Witness

he also had a background of fighting experience prior

maybe his biology was also related

he's also older than the Hive

[hollow hinge]

His encounter is definitely somewhat hard lol

You don't judge encounters by how they play in the normal version of the raid

You judge it by how it plays in Contest

[dim minnow]

keep in mind that he wasn't even taking us seriously until the final stand

[hollow hinge]

^^
"The only reason we won is because he even entertained the fight"

Or something along those lines

[languid dawn]

Okay but why is he stronger than Oryx who had billions giving him tribute at all times and the power of a worm god to take

[dim minnow]

important to note that Oryx was much weaker when we fought him

[raw hazel]

Also Rhulk is just like

Higher on the ladder, so to speak

[dim minnow]

refer to this

[raw hazel]

Oryx was impressive, but Rhulk was the Witness’ first disciple, easily subjugated the worm gods, etc. He’s just a bigger fish, essentially.

[chrome fog]

There’s also the fact that as First Disciple, Rhulk has technically used Darkness and Paracausality a lot longer than Oryx

He was even complicit in the events that led to the ascension of the Hive God Siblings and the establishment of the modern day Hive

As for the Upended, yes its not powered by him, just simply powered by the Worm God he had subjugated and is actively burning as a power source

[weak prawn]

Did the spider ever take the bomb out of glint? Also did Mara ever catch him?

[dim minnow]

1. Yes, he did so right after we swindled him out of Crow
2. He fled the Tangled Shore before she could get to him with the help of Drifter. However, he got caught by House Salvation and we had to rescue him. After that, he ended up in the Eliksni Quarter of the Last City where he now resides.

for now, Mara is allowing him to remain there

but sooner or later, she will probably do something when the opportunity rises

the Vanguard is only letting him stay here because they think he could be a useful ally

[trim grotto]

Halllyyy

[trim grotto]

Aah you're the best

[raw hazel]

MAEL

Do you think Ahamkara would taste good?

[dim minnow]

better question:
What do you think Hive would look like if they had good dental?

[trim grotto]

The encounter is only part of it. And consider that Oryx was so strong because of that empowerment - Rhulk is just always like this, unlike Oryx it wasn't a system we could dismantle.
Rhulk was able to defeat the Leviathan than trapped the Worm Gods, he slaughtered planets. He was dangerous, angry, and incredibly arrogant. If it wasn't for our power to absorb and redirect his energy, we wouldn't have even been able to harm him at all.

[ripe warren]

Do you think the corridors of time narrative is going to be important to the final shape narrative?

[trim grotto]

No.

[trim grotto]

I think it'd taste worse the better it is cooked

[raw hazel]

y'know

It probably would

[trim grotto]

Thing is, Corridors of Time wasn't the future, but a future. And we know it wasn't our current one.

[desert tree]

question: is there a youtube channel that plays the lore stories like an audio book? would like to know more about the D2 Lore, and having it being read to me while im doing some farming would be nice.

also, bonus question: is there a lore story that has "scribe notes" or a foot note from the translator that culminates in basically a "wtf did I just read"?

[trim grotto]

So we can't truly say it'll ever be relevant because it simply isn't us

[dim minnow]

probably a good thing Oryx died when he did, otherwise he would have looked like this due to his poor dental hygene

[dim minnow]

Entelechy has a lot of Eido's footnotes, but they are more of her serious observations of the entries she features in it

[trim grotto]

Yes, and there are actual podcasts - look up the Lore Hub discord.
Also, yes, that's the FS CE lore, Entelechy.

[dim minnow]

Chronicon has a lot of footnotes worht looking into

[dreamy patio]

bit unrelated but, i think it would be AWESOME if bungie made a parasite ornament that was darkness/reliquary themed, it would work so well

[dim minnow]

most glorify the bullshit Calus has them writing, but there were some that criticized them

[pale steppe]

#❓destiny-questions

[desert tree]

gotcha. was watching a few Byf videos for the first time, didn't realize how much I really like the stories written. the one about ||the lone survivor in the station|| really got to me

[dreamy patio]

because i mean, it makes more logical sense, yall saw the preserved worms on rhulks ship right?

[ripe warren]

Should I expect an easy or difficult raid in 2 weeks?

[pale steppe]

I couldn’t find the channel

[dreamy patio]

i mean, were probably going to fight the litteral Epiphamy of evil (THE ULTIMATE EVIL) so uh i say yea

[ripe warren]

I mean it’s what I’m hoping for but then last years 2 hour race happened

[dreamy patio]

idk man, all i say is be prepared, idk what the fuck that witness bitch is gonna do, spawn 20000 tormentors, place prevailing darkness X20, spawn Yellow Bar Screebs

it will prolly be rhulk but even harder

like, waaaaaay harder

[ripe warren]

Hope so man

[sharp osprey]

Maybe this was explained in the Lightfall campaign, i dont remember, but where are the Neomuni? The big city doesn't seem to have any citizens at all lol

[trim grotto]

That's because they're under it. All of those holograms such as Quinn you see are the Neomuni in emergency bunker cryo, minds connected to the Cloudark.

[sharp osprey]

I figured the cloudark had something to do with it.
Kind of disappointing that theres no like npcs, but thats not really been destiny's thing historically

[dreamy patio]

not to mention the "Civilian NPC" Ai would be genuinley stupid

[jagged badge]

I’m ngl I think Bungie knew that players would probably just try to shoot civilians

[cursive falcon]

I definetly would

[jagged badge]

[exotic cloak]

Almost everyone

But you can just put them in no combat zones

We have two no combat zones in Neomuna

Well, one actually

[trim grotto]

I will admit, it could've had more life.

[empty fern]

Y’all ready for the lore dropping today?

[trim grotto]

the who

[jagged badge]

👀

[jagged badge]

Season finale likely dropping today, so you may wanna avoid this channel until you get to play it

[trim grotto]

well that'll be after work tomorrow

neato

[analog torrent]

Are there examples of fireteams of all titans or all warlocks? Cayde/Andal/Shiro were an all-hunter team and the Six Coyotes were all hunters

[ruby pivot]

yo question anything can kill a ghost right?

like a very heavy caliber round like what happened to cayde

or some alternate space mumbo jumbo paracausal turd rounds to kill a ghost?

[jagged badge]

Sundance got hit with a Devourer round specifically

As in, the sorta round the original Thorn used

That being said, yeah Ghosts can be killed by non-Paracausal means

I believe Ada has used Izanagi’s in the past against Warlords and their Ghosts

Petra accidentally killed some Guardians with an airstrike that got their Ghosts too

[ruby pivot]

oh shiiiiiit, she gave guardians perma death?

damn petra just carpet bombed some guardians

ok i didnt know those

[ruby pivot]

is sundance a guardian or a subclass

sounds like a subclass

[jagged badge]

Sundance is Cayde’s Ghost

[ruby pivot]

ooohh, ok didnt know that was cayde's ghost name

ok so wait are these devourer rounds easy to make?

since u mentioned thorn

[ember storm]

very hard to come by

Thorn replicas don’t use them

[naive raptor]

Isn’t its shell in game the Heraldic Shell? Cause I have that one, but not a shader to make it look like Sundance

[ember storm]

no

[jagged badge]

It’d be bad news for Guardians if Devourer rounds were commonplace

They drain Light

One tapping Guardians and preventing resurrection even if their Ghost lives

[ruby pivot]

yikes, are these rounds can be pulled out? or getting hit in a vital areas just cause an inevitable doom?

ill assume being grazed by one will just weaken you

[ember storm]

it’s literally just being hit anywhere

it literally drains your light out of you

you just drop dead

Thorn (the original) just has the additional property of also eating away at your flesh at the same time

[naive raptor]

What’s Sundance’s shell in games then?

[ember storm]

It doesn’t exist

none of the vanguard ones do

only Sagira’s does and it’s a very loosely designed copy

[trim grotto]

Well, Ophiuchus does have a unique shell we can use, but is also seen as...

this basic shell style

easily replicable

This is the named shell

Fan rendor of Sundance - we don't have an exact marking copy but the shell style is common enough

[dusty jolt]

How do ghosts change shells

[trim grotto]

We don't actually know the process in detail. They either shift their Light into a new Shell or simply move their core; but we haven't seen it happen or had a detailed showcase.

[pale steppe]

How do you get the damaged city ghost

[trim grotto]

Last City Shell (Damaged)? Playing the Red War.

[pale steppe]

Yea that one

I didn’t play red war and I have it

Tho

[trim grotto]

Might have been added as a default Collections unlock, I suppose.

Still, that's where it came from originally.

[pale steppe]

Ok

I started destiny late

I wish I got to play the red war and stuff

And d 1

[trim grotto]

Well D1 is still up

You can play that

[pale steppe]

On what?

[trim grotto]

PlayStation, I believe. Maybe Xbox? Not sure.

[pale steppe]

Ok

[chrome fog]

Yes on Xbox

And it’s fine to have started late, plenty of us loreheads didn’t start with D1, or even took breaks for a couple years

[hollow zealot]

has a ghost ever resurrected someone who wasnt an adult?

[jagged badge]

Yeah, Shin Malphur

[hollow zealot]

oh

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/confession-of-hope-part-one#book-ghost-stories

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/confession-of-hope-part-two#book-ghost-stories

Ironically the instance of a non-adult being rezzed is one of the few entries where a ghost addresses their freedom to choose whom they resurrect even if it isn’t the one whom they feel that Pull towards

[hollow zealot]

neato

[analog torrent]

I read mael’s shin malphur post from two years ago and I know that shin malphur is an outlier adn should not be counted but how is he using the light without a ghost? Have we gotten an answer in the past two years?

Still a mystery?

[jagged badge]

Yep

[chrome fog]

There's a theory regarding Jarren Ward's Last Word and the Sunbreakers Titan order, but i don't have access to it

And it's a bit of a stretch to begin with

[ember storm]

Closest thing to an answer is the idea that last word just had latent light inside of it, and even just being a Lightbearer for a few minutes left shin with the instinct to tap into it

The gun came to you? How does it feel in your grip? Few can light its fire, but any reborn of the Light can call its name. That's a secret I'm bound to hold. Just know you've earned it, and you've earned it true. The cannon you hold is yours, but it is no replica—it is a gift from a friend.

all we know for sure is that he’s not linked to another ghost

[raw hazel]

HHHHHHHHH

HHHHHHHHH

that mission was FUN

AAAAAAA

[chrome fog]

Man

Wish I was playing rn

[chrome fog]

That's where the theory's rooted in, theoretically the Golden Gun summoned by Hunters is the same as a Sunbreaker's hammer in that it's a paracausal copy of the original; the theory sort of breaks when considering we have the original Last Word and it was reforged by Banshee, but I'm of the mind that we Ship of Theseus'd it and now all the parts reforged by the Sunbreakers are replaced with regular parts

[ember storm]

I mean it’s not like we use last word with any solar light now

this was back then

granted I dont know how the whole fake murder thing in the malf mission would work

[raw hazel]

IT WAS SO GOOD but i won’t spoil

[chrome fog]

Guh I wanna eat but I'm stuck doing the psuedocode and flowchart of my assignment now that I got the program to work

[low gyro]

was that mission supposed to be a callback to ||og D1||? i didn't play it that's why i'm asking

[raw hazel]

||IT WAS. The end of the vanilla D1 campaign ended with us killing the Black Heart in that arena. It was a really fun little callback.||

[low gyro]

ohhh damn well i figured. it was a fun little mission

i guess that counts as bookends

[raw hazel]

It wasn’t much, but was still pleasant

||And CAYDE AND CROW and AAAA and NOOOO NOT THE TRAVELERRrrrrr ||

[empty fern]

Oh lord the terminal entry after quest ends

(More Saint X Osiris yay)

[raw hazel]

It maybe my gay little heart flutter, they are so adorable

[ember storm]

I need to get home right now

[raw hazel]

YOU DO

[ember storm]

IM GETTING GROCERIES

[raw hazel]

HURRY IT UP

I NEED PEOPLE TO TALK TO ABOUT THIS

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-vex-robot-gif-14918360

[raw hazel]

UGGHH it wasn't much but it was so good

[ember storm]

Vex on June 1st realizing who tf just invaded their systems

actually

do you think homosexuality is listed in their databases of either

there must be something

[raw hazel]

Do you think we could win if we made the Vex gay?

[empty fern]

Probably? But like. Insignificant

What

Damnit hally

[raw hazel]

af;eiaowjfo

sorry

It was right there

[chrome fog]

Simulated Mayas and Chiomas...

[dull raft]

I mean, here in a few weeks we get to make them taste the rainbow, so we're making them gay regardless

[chrome fog]

Them 227 aught to be making the Vex gay

[raw hazel]

TRUUUUE

We beat the Vex through the power of love and rainbows

[chrome fog]

Maybe I should go home and get food, this code documentation ain't due till 11:59

[raw hazel]

Finally living my Sailor Scout dreams

[ember storm]

actually yeah I didn’t think of that

there’s a lot of mayas running around

do you think they know about Lakshmi

[raw hazel]

It’s not impossible

[analog torrent]

Saint killed 8 morbillion of them for osiris so there’s that too

[dry lagoon]

What the hell is this ship lore

[analog torrent]

Ain’t no way it’s not in their databases

[dim minnow]

Damn, that finale was insane

[dry lagoon]

Am I reading this correctly but did ||riven basically tell uldren to say sorry to cayde?||

[raw hazel]

IT WAS SO GOOOOOD

[raw hazel]

||The implication is that Riven granted Crow's wish to see Caydge again||

[dim minnow]

||I was hoping that Bungie would play excerpt from the union though||

[analog torrent]

I swore that ship lore was out months ago

[dry lagoon]

||Ahhhh and that’s why cayde is here lmao||

Yes people datamined it

[dull raft]

wasnt it? thought it was the rank 16 reward from riven rep

[dry lagoon]

Didn’t read it personally because data mining sucks

[analog torrent]

I thought so too

Need to go home and check

[raw hazel]

It dropped from the mission

[hearty dagger]

What is the deal with the Rift Generator in the Strand?

[dry lagoon]

If you saw the ship before today it’s because it was datamined and you say it online otherwise today was the first day it was available

[raw hazel]

Might have been able to see it in collections tbh, but ehhh I can't remember

[analog torrent]

Yeah it was added to Ishtar in November

Must’ve read it there

[raw hazel]

I do like the ship tho, it shades nicely

[hearty dagger]

What Ship?

[jagged badge]

I swear it has been

[jagged badge]

Unforeseen Consequences

[raw hazel]

It probably was honestly

https://i.gyazo.com/23eedc995185cb62685fec65e6ba948b.jpg

sheep

[dreamy patio]

holy shit, that ship with that shader looks FIRE

[chrome fog]

It was because you can inspect the ship in collections or in the triumphs page, and then read the lore entry connected to it

Pretty sure it's been available in the API for the entirety of the season, until now it was probably spoilered
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/unforeseen-consequences

See?

[low gyro]

"His first step down a forsaken path."

i see what you did there

[dreamy patio]

you really were my destiny 2 forsaken

[dreamy patio]

so how do we get it?

how do we obtain this ship

[chrome fog]

Ok figured out how flowgarith works, did the flowchart and pseudocode and submitted the assignment, did the quiz, time to eat and get on Destiny

[chrome fog]

Hally mentioned it ||drops from the finale mission||

[dreamy patio]

alright then

thanks

may be getting it later

[mental meadow]

Why are we in the ||black garden|| in the final mission someone update me on what's going on

[vernal isle]

final mission/final cutscene: ||OUGHHHHH CROW AND CAYDE.....YEAHHHHHH....||

[empty fern]

We, don’t know tbh, osiris says they made the heart again under the witnesses help

But it could (I’m reading into it too much point) symbolically

[mental meadow]

What did the heart do in d1?

Ik we destroyed it but

Idk why it's bad

[jagged badge]

Drained the Traveler

Preventing it from healing iirc

[mental meadow]

Wasn't it like one of the main enemies in the D1 story or am I mistaken

[raw hazel]

||I forget the specific mumbo jumbo but we are/were using Veil to get into the Pale Heart. The Sol Divisive recreated the Black Heart, which was their failed copy of the Veil, in order to essentially block out our signal and prevent us from going into the Traveler.||

[mental meadow]

||so they work for the darkness, and tried to prevent us going to the traveler, but the witness has just opened up a massive portal into it?||

[raw hazel]

||The portal's been there since the end of the Lightfall campaign, but we couldn't follow through. We've spent time ever since finding a way through, which we did when we sent in Crow earlier this season. As for the Sol Divisive, they do basically work for the Witness, aye.||

[mental meadow]

||oh so the witness is already in the traveler doing stuff and only just now are we going to follow?||

[raw hazel]

||Ye||

[jagged badge]

Only just now can we even follow at all

[mental meadow]

👍

Why did we need riven to help us

[jagged badge]

The plot of Deep, Witch and Wish has pretty much all been about finding a way to get through

[jagged badge]

Because we needed her to grant a wish to allow us to breach the portal

[mental meadow]

Oh, so we went to savathun, we went to big fish lady, and finally Riven helped us

[ember storm]

we went to fish first because Titan appeared

[gaunt carbon]

i think i missed something but why is ||the crow in the traveler||

[ember storm]

then Ahsa directed us to Savathun (actually Immaru since she was locked in the vanguard freezer at the time) who then gave us an ahamkara egg and a direction for a new wish, which only riven could do for us

[jagged badge]

We found Ahsa first. Ahsa told us that Savathûn held the key to following the Witness. So we went to Immaru to bargain, but Savathûn wanted us to deal with Xivu first. Eris did that, had Savathûn resurrected and Savathûn told us she gave us what she needed. We figured out there was a pattern in her wings that was in fact a wish. So we had Riven’s spirit brought back so she could grant our wish

[ember storm]

dont ask how defiance fits in

[mental meadow]

Right.. and that wish was the final wish?

[ember storm]

it doesn’t, beyond a bit of character for Uldren and Mara

[ember storm]

A wish to follow the witness

[jagged badge]

Riven revealed that Savathûn’s wish only allowed one person through. We sent Crow through so that we could trace his connection through Mara in order to forge a bridge of our own through the portal

[mental meadow]

Right

[gaunt carbon]

oh question answered

[ember storm]

as is customary, the wish has a caveat, being only one person would be able to go, which is why crow went

[mental meadow]

Do we know what the witness is doing in the traveler

[ember storm]

accomplishing the final shape

and before you make any jokes, the concept has existed for years now

[gaunt carbon]

being brooding and ominous or something

[ember storm]

the final shape is just a thing that’s happening

[dull raft]

the witness is basically trying to pull the plug on reality as its ideal Final Shape

[ember storm]

it’s going to rewrite the entirety of existence to end all life all at once

[mental meadow]

Ik what the final shape is

Th concept at least

[ember storm]

no more life, no more death,

Literally nothing

[dull raft]

and in order to do so, it has to overpower the Traveler's innards, basically

[raw hazel]

No more cheese toastie...

[mental meadow]

Witness wants final shape, do we know what traveler wants

[ember storm]

not that

[mental meadow]

Gardener and the whatever

[ember storm]

for the universe to just keep existing

[ember storm]

Unveiling is still metaphorical propaganda spread by the witness

[mental meadow]

Good analogy tho

Winnower

[ember storm]

not really tbh

[mental meadow]

And the veil... What is it?

[ember storm]

a winnower is just supposed to remove unneeded elements

the winnower in unveiling wiped the whole board clean

literally everything was removed

[mental meadow]

Final shape..

?

[ember storm]

still no

the final shape described in unveiling is more in line with hive sword logic or vex directives

[mental meadow]

I thought the vex's whole thing was accomplishing final shape

[ember storm]

witness doesn’t want that

[ember storm]

not because they actually care or even know what it is

[mental meadow]

Or is that just sol divisive

[ember storm]

they just do it because they’re vex

bacteria doesn’t have any thoughts behind multiplying

it just does

sol divisive are only distanced from the collective because of their methods

the end goal is still the same

[mental meadow]

The end goal being everything vex

Like a... Vex shaped final shape.?

[ember storm]

everything that can be vex becomes vex, and everything that can’t gets removed

but it’s not their “end goal”

it’s just their fastest way of getting there

[mental meadow]

Even if they don't consciously seek that

[ember storm]

once there’s literally zero obstacle, they just want to go into their simulations and simulate everything and anything they can

not for any specific purpose

just because they’re able to

[mental meadow]

What do hive want

[ember storm]

kill things

[mental meadow]

Were they not born of darkness from the wyrm things

[ember storm]

that’s all they want

[ember storm]

their species was forcefully evolved through darkness, yes

but that’s part of their religion

it’s their everyday lives

they don’t just kill to survive, they kill because they believe it’s their right

if their victims were strong enough to stop them, then they’d have deserved to win

but they didn’t, so they died

the hive then reap the rewards of that

[mental meadow]

So the darkness wanted hive for what purpose

[ember storm]

well they weren’t hive then

[mental meadow]

Darkness corrupted the worm gods

[ember storm]

the witness tricked them into accepting a deal with the worm gods under the pretense their world would die

[ember storm]

no

the worm gods wanted it

Ahsa is the only one who didn’t so she’s chill

[mental meadow]

Ahsa is a worm?