📚lore-discussion

[trim grotto]

That, and Venus.

[dim minnow]

he still had loyalists and cloning facilities

[ember storm]

he and his loyalists were just shot into space and left alone

[trim grotto]

He also didn't come to power
He wasn't actually an Emperor

[iron mortar]

And a giant planet eating ship

[shadow crypt]

Oh I thought only he got booted

[dim minnow]

at first he was very depressed until he encountered the Black Fleet at the "Black Edge"

[trim grotto]

Well, an asteroid and planetoid eating ship.

[dim minnow]

there he saw visions of the future where everything, including himself, was dead

[ember storm]

it doesn’t really eat planets either

it nibbles them

[dim minnow]

then he decided to rebrand himself as the Herald of the end of all things

he even went to multiple worlds, conquered them, and took the best member of their species as his personal assassins

his shadows

[trim grotto]

Alas, poor Fulminator

[dim minnow]

he had them hunt down various members of the coup that exiled him

[ember storm]

I like two implications of how he described the event

[dim minnow]

most were killed except for Caiatl, Ghaul, Consul, Umun Arath, and Otzot

[ember storm]

the witness either directly lied to him, or he just completely misunderstood the point

[shadow crypt]

Calus wanted his own daughter dead?

[dim minnow]

or he was deluded from oxygen deprivation and hallucinated the whole thing

[empty fern]

Both

[dim minnow]

yes

[ember storm]

would be funnier

[shadow crypt]

Oh wow

[dim minnow]

some of his loyalists actually thought that

[ember storm]

imagine being the witness and some rotting mass of lard contacts you through the egregore

no idea what he is or what he wants

[iron mortar]

Well she betrayed him and exiled him to space so he was pretty mad

[dim minnow]

eventually, he would send a group of them to try and get rid of Ghaul, but they all failed

[ember storm]

if you’re wondering if Calus actually cared about Caiatl

the short answer is no

[dim minnow]

at that point, Calus realized that his desire for vengeance was holding him back so he got rid of his remaining Shadows and sought new ones

[iron mortar]

Like I don't know

[ember storm]

the long answer is he had her pet disemboweled and left on her bed for her to discover

[iron mortar]

Oh wait nvm

[ember storm]

he also forced Caiatl’s personal handmaiden who basically raised her to do it

[dim minnow]

I'd say yes but in an incredibly delusional way

[ember storm]

this was before any hint of a coup, for the record

he just did that

[trim grotto]

She loved it more than him, so he slaughtered it.

Gee, I wonder why she loved it more.

[empty fern]

Calus such a

Fat guy?

[trim grotto]

Milos, I believe it was named.

[iron mortar]

Like in the duality dungeon, calus has a physical form of a nightmare of his daughter who betrayed him

[ember storm]

He is literally fat and also there’s just a clear distinction in the level of armor here

[dim minnow]

then he got word of Ghaul being killed by warriors known as "Guardians"

[iron mortar]

Like he had some PTSD from it

[dim minnow]

so he went to Sol to investigate

[ember storm]

not always the case

[dim minnow]

he then sent an invitation for us to meet the challenegs of his Leviathan

[ember storm]

I mean who the hell has ptsd about fucking zydron

[trim grotto]

The hidden collectable dialogue of Duality fleshed it out

[shadow crypt]

How did the Leviathan get overgrown with darkness

[dim minnow]

we triumphed and impressed him to the point where we had his interest

[ember storm]

Calus did it

because witness

[trim grotto]

He flew it into the Mercury anomaly

[dim minnow]

he took it to the void left where Mercury once was

[iron mortar]

And the moon, with nezarac ship

[ember storm]

it’s the same darkness fungus he used on the glykon

do you think egregore would be good on pizza

[dim minnow]

then there were other incidents where we infiltrated the Leviathan Underbelly only to end up being enlisted by him to clear up the Vex Mind blocking the ship's "stomach" and us stepping in to stop the Red Legion remnants led by Val Ca'uor from taking over the Leviathan

[iron mortar]

Do we ever get a clear reason why the cabal went to Sol in general, like the cabal in lore are forgotten in dark age lore

[chrome fog]

He had PTSD because he feels traumatized a literal child loves her pet instead of his absentee-ass; not to mention he forcefully aborted her siblings when her mom was uuuhhh, I think caring more for Caital than him(correct me on this part)? He’s a bitch

[ember storm]

it’s just in the nature as conquerers

the first cabal teams in sol were researchers and scouts

Ghaul was also keen on tracking the traveler from the get go

[empty fern]

I wonder

[ember storm]

we don’t have a strict timeline but Calus was definitely usurped before D1

I think

[dim minnow]

then we got Season of Opulence where Calus invited us to the Menagerie

[empty fern]

If ghaul DIDNT want to harness the traveler

Would he have used the almighty to destroy it?

[ember storm]

no

[dim minnow]

there we had the chance to really solidify our relationship with him

[ember storm]

from Caiatl’s perception at least, Ghaul never liked using the almighty

it was always a last resort in the past

[empty fern]

Would the almighty exist if he didn’t want the traveler?

[dim minnow]

then Savathun sent us copies of his Chronicon which made us realize how batshit insane Calus really was

[trim grotto]

Well he'd have destroyed the sun or subjugated us
The former probably wouldn't have been healthy for the Traveler

[ember storm]

the almighty is just a regular superweapon

[dim minnow]

which is why we started to distance ourselves from him

[ember storm]

it’s not related to the traveler in any way

the red legion just have it

[trim grotto]

Yes, it was irrelevant. The Cage is what wouldn't have existed.

[dim minnow]

the Almighty was just another example of why the Red Legion contradicted Ghaul

[iron mortar]

How did they develop tech to harness light anyway, and was the traveler awake after red war

[ember storm]

years of messing with the natural law and order has led to monstrous crimes of science

[trim grotto]

Via the info stolen from the Dreadnaught of the Hive, and yes, sort of.

[ember storm]

the traveler was awake in the way of it wasn’t asleep

and could act if needed

which only happened in Arrivals, Seraph, and the beginning of LF

[dim minnow]

then fast forward a bit to where Calus started to experiment with Scorn and the Crown of Sorrow and ends up contacting the Witness

[ember storm]

now it’s basically in a coma fighting a brain tumor

[iron mortar]

What was ghaul's white form

[trim grotto]

He's just albino.

[iron mortar]

No

When we killed him

[chrome fog]

Unless you mean him trying to use the D1 rez- yep

[iron mortar]

He became this being of light

[ember storm]

he used radiance

the warlock super

[dim minnow]

that was him fully empowered by the Light he stole

[iron mortar]

What??

[chrome fog]

And then the Traveler took it back

[trim grotto]

Are
You
How did thst get auto modded

[iron mortar]

That is wild

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-the-red-war-light-traveler-awakening-gif-26955623

[trim grotto]

Are you serious I can't say thst word

[dim minnow]

Traveler realized this was bad and put him down before he could do anything else

[dim minnow]

what word?

[chrome fog]

Yeah Solar-locks had a rez ability instead of uh Well? I think.

[ember storm]

https://destiny.wiki.gallery/images/thumb/a/a9/Sunsinger-radiance.png/1200px-Sunsinger-radiance.png

wings and all

[hollow hinge]

That?

[iron mortar]

Me too what did you say

[ember storm]

the super included self rez and ability regen

[chrome fog]

What if you use asterisks? In place of some letters?

[iron mortar]

Bro I played D1, I just didn't know he self rez

[empty fern]

Ah yes
Radiant dump

[ember storm]

so it basically sucked unless you knew your raid team would be ass

[trim grotto]

Yellow... vanilla... sweet... stuff. Starts with cus. Can't say the second half.

[chrome fog]

Aaaah

[iron mortar]

Me too

[chrome fog]

That makes sense

[iron mortar]

Com

[raw hazel]

[trim grotto]

Anyway it may not have been a "rez" per se but he did become a form of pure Light
And then got banished

[chrome fog]

Rhymes with the yellow condiment complimentary to ketchup

[raw hazel]

I am watching Rogue One but hello everyone

[hollow hinge]

Ahh, well they can't remove the second part of that word from the filter

[trim grotto]

Correct

[ember storm]

first time?

[chrome fog]

Yippee

[trim grotto]

Hello Bo

[iron mortar]

Banished, you mean killed

[hollow hinge]

It's an unfortunate side effect of the filter for some words

[dim minnow]

funny how my favorite Star Wars ship came from this movie

[trim grotto]

Yeah but banished sounds more ooOOooOo

[trim grotto]

Mine's the Ebon Hawk

[empty fern]

Episode where we do something with savathuns ship when?

[trim grotto]

Graffiti it

[chrome fog]

The jedi fighter Obi Wan had was pretty cool, the Naboo fighters too

[dim minnow]

U-Wing for me

[empty fern]

Done

[dim minnow]

the N-1 used to be my favorite

now it is second favorite

[iron mortar]

Why did xivu destroy torobaltl, and how was cabal not able to defend against it, since they have such powerful weapons, that can effect things paracausal

[dim minnow]

the Nubian ships are sleek

[hollow hinge]

Reminds me of this

[chrome fog]

Tryna think of what my favorite was, I know it was made by Lego

[dim minnow]

you mean a Lego Star wars original ship?

[trim grotto]

Because she'd been warring with them for years, and because Savathûn manipulated Umun'Arath to open a ritual portal in the centre of their city for her form and her armies to raze it from the inside out.

Umun'Arath being the Evocate-General, Primus of All Legions.

[chrome fog]

I might be thinking that one ship exclusive to that Clone with Force Lightning for an arm that Lego just made up, but also I’m thinking back on the design and it being overrated? Idk my mind is a mystery dungeon and the friendly wizard with directions is me, who is bad with directions

[dim minnow]

or you mean an actual ship that was made into official Lego sets (which in this case does not narrow it down very much)

[trim grotto]

She was the head of the military, second only to Caiatl/Ghaul/Calus

[dim minnow]

you mean Jek-14?

[trim grotto]

Depending on the time period

[hollow hinge]

Yea killing the hive that was performing the ritual completed the ritual

[trim grotto]

Well the Cabal

But yes

[chrome fog]

Inclusive of both which is not helpful; but yes probably the Jek one

[trim grotto]

Caiatl slew Umun'Arath and that opened the portal

[dim minnow]

I'm pretty sure his ship is based on the E-Wing

which has had an official set made for it

recently

this one? @chrome fog

[iron mortar]

Why would savathun take out one of the best things they would have against the witness

And I didn't know the hive were fighting the cabal for that long

[dim minnow]

yeah, Jek's ship is pretty much a black E-Wing

[trim grotto]

Because it was a gift for Xivu Arath, we weren't supposed to ally with the Cabal but slaughter each other as they fled to us, and then she'd take the Traveler without resistance

But we did ally, and so had our forces ready for Witch Queen

She would have sealed it away inside her Throne World, secure and safe

In turn this would have halted the Final Shape

[hollow hinge]

Allied or not, we still would've stopped Savathun I reckon

[trim grotto]

We also weren't meant to ally with the House of Light

[empty fern]

Savathun big iq

[iron mortar]

If savathun didn't know that the witness tricked her, why did she betray them in the collapse and try to save the traveler

[trim grotto]

And have drained our resources from the Endless Night

[dim minnow]

she was too ambitious to be one of its lackeys

[trim grotto]

Because she was still aware that the plan was flawed and her death awaited
She could become more powerful, and free from the Final Shape, with the Traveler

[hollow hinge]

Also, I think Savathun's plan would've failed miserably... Rhulk was already there (albeit trapped, no?) But if he was there then the Witness would've found a way in and brute forced his way to victory

[dim minnow]

Rhulk was trapped in the pyramid

and I thik her sealing her Throne World would have stopped the Scorn from pouring in

[trim grotto]

Rhulk was sealed within the Pyramid due to the power of the Wellspring. If she had the Traveler, she wouldn't just have the Light of the Wellspring, but all the Light of the Traveler, to boot.

[hollow hinge]

Yea but I think he and the Witness would've found a way still

[trim grotto]

Well with the Traveler she could have simply killed Rhulk, I expect

Anyway the point is, she had a good plan - but our surprising turnaround in allying with our former enemies threw a wrench into her plans.

[iron mortar]

I meant why did she betray the witness before she had a reason too, what would she gain

Like after the witness realized it couldn't get the traveler what is next after that

[chrome fog]

Nooo not this one, the one I’m thinking of had the wings straight out to the side, like if an X-Wing didn’t split its wings

[iron mortar]

In witch queen it states that she was already growing sick of the life of being with a worm

But it is unclear why she did

[chrome fog]

Because they’re parasites

The amount of tithe they require grows with each feeding, to a point where you get to where Savathun was in the middle of Splicer, where her worm was so greedy and ravenous that it was close to eating her despite all the cunning - imbaru - it was getting by Savathun convincing people she was Osiris

Which was something that had been brought to mind before between the Hive God Siblings, to which Sav suggested they stay the course

Or Oryx

One of the two, and from there they separated on their own way

Being the Hive God of Cunning, Savathun has a pretty big through-line of not trusting anyone, to which her goal of stealing the Traveler for herself was her way to guarantee both a source of Light for her to be sustained by as a Lightbearer as well as prevent the Witness from getting its mitts on the Traveler and enacting its doomsday buffoonery

[ember storm]

Savathun and the others learned a long time ago that the tithing system wasn’t all it was cracked up to be

she’s just the only one who wanted out of it

Oryx and Xivu were fully behind it

Savathun’s first attempt at circumventing her worm backfired, as the infinite generation from the dreaming city curse made its appetite grow exponentially

[trim grotto]

Impending death. Inevitable death.

The Worm Hunger grows ever stronger. If you cannot satiate it, it will consume you.

[raw hazel]

The worm wanted a Scooby Snack

[dim minnow]

the Z-95 Headhunter?

[iron mortar]

Do we have a clear origin of the vex

I hope it isn't something boring like the witness created them or something

[hollow hinge]

It absolutely isn't that

Most Vex don't align with the witness

Only the sol divisive do and other vex factions consider them heretical

[iron mortar]

So is there new lore that gives them a clear origin

[dim minnow]

I'd say that Unveiling is the best we got in regards to Vex Origin

while it is heavily allegorical, metaphorical, and biased, there are several connections from other lore that give it credibility

mainly in regards to the Vex's origins

[gentle geyser]

No not that one

Think hes talking about the arc 170

[trim grotto]

Not clear, per se, but we know that they evolved naturally as a species, according to Clovis Bray.

The Logbook goes into great detail

[dim minnow]

better angle

well the Headhunter is literally an X-wing but without the fold-out wings

and both were used by the Republic during the Clone Wars

[raw hazel]

Also from Entelechy, as Eido notes from the recordings of the R6 and HMW, the Witness’ precursor species used something she believed could be related to the Vex

[iron mortar]

The thing I find the most weird is that they are organic fluid that is contained metal bodies

If bray is right than naturally evolved how did it evolve into time traveling robots

[dim minnow]

they started as reductive patterns, then evolved to be carried within radiolaria

[pure tree]

I remember seeing either on ishtar collective or a holoprojector message about Saladin talking about how the cabal understand the hives conquest of torobatl since they see the hive as similar to them as both being conquerors or smth. Does anyone know the full context to it?

[iron mortar]

Like the hive conquest worlds, same as the cabal, and the hive destroyed torobaltl

[pure tree]

Actually, that was the wrong question, does anyone have a link to the original source of that thing?

[trim grotto]

The time part isn't covered but the exoskeleton absolutely is
I don't have the time to find you the pertinent quotes but I can link you to the source as a whole

One moment

Part 1:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tmu9sjYV7c6X1NhRQmOxkj_o7IJ4ZRcifbm49MNr12s/edit?usp=drivesdk
Part 2:
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/clovis-brays-logbook-missing-pages

Yes, one is a Google doc - it was CE lore for BL

Very detailed, goes into the creation of the Exo, the Deep Stone Crypt, the Vex, and more.

[raw hazel]

Clovis Bray's Logbook my beloved...

One of my favorite pieces of lore

And Rogue One was good

Digital zombies aside

[dim minnow]

I really should get around to watching Solo at some point

I keep hearing it is actually decent

Bioniclr still hasn't responded

was the ship he was referring to the Headhunter or ARC-170?

[gentle geyser]

Solo is a good movie its just that its not that impactful and it came immediately after the last jedi of all things

It gave us the most in depth look at the chad Imperial army we’ve ever seen on screen

Need more imperial army in my star wars

Andor also had the imperial army which was awesome

[iron mortar]

I always imagine what it was like to advertise turning into an exo was like

"do you wanna be an immortal robot come by clovis bray llc now"

that is probably how it went

[rose helm]

I need to know the lord behind crown splitter like how did its name come to be

[dim minnow]

Crown-Splitter doesn't really have ties to a specific foundry/source, so it is rather difficult to figure that out

we know it was a weapon of choice for Sloane at least

[remote sky]

Soooo apparently Asher is in the vex network somewhere.
Now, I do wanna know.
Since when could we enter the vex network? Did that just.. happen?
Second, holy shit, we might see Asher again

[blazing wasp]

We could enter the vex network since season of the splicer

[remote sky]

Whuh???? How did I not know this??

[trim grotto]

You... have not finished Avalon.

For the Vex Network, there were two parts.

Firstly, Mithrax opened a portal to the Vex Network using his Splicer Gauntlet back in Season of the Splicer. The Vex have since patched this ability, but it's how we accessed it back then. We manifested things in ways we could interact with due to our paracausal nature expressing our will.

As for Neomuna, that's due to the presence of the Veil.

As for Avalon... that's Asher.

And if you don't want to be spoiled, do it, keep a very keen eye out, and finish all its Triumphs.

[remote sky]

Do I need to buy anything for this Avalon stuff?

[jagged badge]

Do you have Season of Defiance

[fresh zephyr]

How can Subjugators use strand

I thought that we were the ones that discovered it

[ember storm]

yes

discovered

past tense

[chrome fog]

Yeeee that one, and I’m liking it a whole hell of a lot better

[chrome fog]

That is the specific advertisement for the Exo process, considering the utility of a new functional body without biological failings that can be reuploaded into a new body especially with elderly and sickly individuals

[empty fern]

Lore question of the day

Who were the Cormorant

Oh and the Trinary Cult

[tardy wagon]

Any of y’all read the lore from the penguins? The story of Micah-10 is by far my favorite. She’s such a unique character. Definitely give it a read.

[jagged badge]

Micah my beloved

[ember storm]

add her to the list of characters being better parental figures than Savathun

the list that doesn’t exist yet but I should make

[iron mortar]

But did bray tell people of the memory wiping or nah

[ember storm]

It’s not exactly something that could be hidden

[remote sky]

Do we know if all neomuni are as tall as the cloud striders?
And if so, why are their arcade machines so small?

[exotic cloak]

I think you can see holograms of regular Neomuni and see they are just humans

Cloudstriders are like that because the upgrades

[chrome fog]

No they are not that tall; the Cloud Striders are literally augmented which means they are different to how they were as normal humans

[empty fern]

[exotic cloak]

Imagine everyone on Neomuna being that tall

[remote sky]

I mean
They technically should be shorter considering Neptune's size (and therefore gravity)

[exotic cloak]

All planets on our system were terraformed by the traveler

That's why there's actual gravity in the moon

[trim grotto]

No, not all.

[exotic cloak]

Wait what

What did I miss?

[trim grotto]

Not all planets were terraformed. Titan and Europa and Neptune, for example.

[exotic cloak]

Damn

[outer dragon]

Crown-splitter go bonk

[marsh spire]

at the end of witch queen with the cinematic of the travelar leaving was it tryna leave like it did with the elksni?

[jagged badge]

Witch Queen or Seraph?

Well, regardless, the Traveler didn’t try to leave us at all

[exotic cloak]

Like The Witness said, It has nowhere to run

Anyway at the start of Lightfall is even more clear traveler traveled to fight the witness

Hey, there's any reason why witness didn't moved the Moon and Europa pyramids when they arrived?

[raw hazel]

(Oh nvm, I saw what you actually wrote)

But yeah, just adding ontop of that, the Traveler chose to stay and fight the Witness ever since she came to the system.

And the whole thing with the Eliksni is she was trying to lure the Witness away from them.

[remote sky]

It has a gender?!?

[raw hazel]

The Gardener, aka the Traveler, is referred to feminine pronouns throughout the lore.

So, she/it works.

[remote sky]

Holy shit how did I not know this

[raw hazel]

It’s not readily apparent, to be fair.

[remote sky]

Regardless, I wanted to ask about what caiatl meant when she said sympathies didn't mean much to earth or whatever the heck

https://youtu.be/ySFIb3YvTJk?si=pqF3F9ZVJWtqK5Lb

Towards the end

[trim grotto]

They did not help Earth during the Dark Age.

They hid themselves away.

[rich veldt]

i dont think its ever mentioned, but atleast with the lunar one its not the easiest to get back out

[vestal summit]

DEEPEST LORE

[empty fern]

Yuh

Her biggest fan

(Also a fan of crota)

[exotic cloak]

I mean I don't see what's stopping them to move their fingers and make it just break through in the most epic way

I guess they just don't need them but is curious, is just and advantage an is not like they need much effort

[remote sky]

I see

[remote sky]

EXPLAIN.

[raw hazel]

Toland likes good music

[vestal summit]

Oh that's Toland? I thought it was just a guardian exploding.

Makes sense though.

[remote sky]

Who's Toeland??

[vestal summit]

Funny lil ball.

[wheat flower]

Undead guardian

[vestal summit]

He's a specialist on hive/taken that lost his bodily form during a raid agaisnt Crota.

[remote sky]

Did he happen to be with eris?

[vestal summit]

Yeah, he was in Eris squad.

[remote sky]

Hmmmm

[ember storm]

he’s one of the primary reasons they died

they enlisted him as a hive expert to guide them towards Crota

he abandoned them entirely just so he could get close to a deathsinger

[raw hazel]

Said Deathsinger sung him to death, and then he became a lightbulb

[exotic cloak]

Lore device

[vestal summit]

massive simp.

[exotic cloak]

He is the only reason im doing moon patrols

[remote sky]

Oh that explains the image

Ha ha ha
Ha
hhha

[ember storm]

it’s funny that he’s literally just like that

like ghost’s only reaction to reading Toland’s journal was “he wasn’t much fun at parties”

[exotic cloak]

I can imagine

Everyone having a good time and Toland suddendly starts to explain sword logic

[remote sky]

Damn why'd they make the deathsinger kinda bad tho /s

[ember storm]

it’s just that Scott pilgrim clip but he immediately starts talking about the ammonites

[ember storm]

kinda fucked her dress is made of the bones of children

[remote sky]

Tooth dress tooth dress
Goth wristbands??

[remote sky]

DAMN

I can fix her

[ember storm]

she’s dead

[exotic cloak]

No you cant

Basically because that

I mean you always can contact hidden swarm

Those guys are not fans of the sword logic anymore

[vestal summit]

whats the deal with the hidden swarm?

and also you cant fix deathsingers but you can fix hive guardians tho.

[exotic cloak]

They keep trying to create Oryx Electric Boogalo

[ember storm]

Crota’s brood

so

they’ve been suffering since day 1

L after L for them and no hope of getting better

[exotic cloak]

Worst job ever

[vestal summit]

What? why has Crota's brood stopped fangirling over sword logic?

[remote sky]

[ember storm]

they built the entire scarlet keep to try to appeal to the pyramid ship there and the witness just used them as a test for us

[ember storm]

it just hasn’t been working out too hot for them

with the guidance of Savathun, they basically just practiced heresy to save their own skin

hence the dungeon, pit of heresy

where they were trying to make an immortal champion by infusing a living knight with nightmare essence

they also tried resurrecting oryx but none of it took

[remote sky]

Tbh the hive guardians do seem pretty cool. Would love to be allied with a group of each race. Imagine?
I know Asher is like, some other guy or whatever but imagine if he took over a small fleet of vex for us

[exotic cloak]

https://youtu.be/MxEVBJ0xofo?si=-jjO0gMuvNZBR9i-

[trim grotto]

Yeah so when I mentioned Avalon

It's about Asher in particular

[ember storm]

vex will never be allies

[remote sky]

I know, Asher is Avalon or whatever the heckle

[ember storm]

closest you have is basically exos

[remote sky]

Cringe Clovis Creations

[ember storm]

they’re gluten free vex if gluten is vex

made with sterilized vex milk

[remote sky]

The gluten is radiolaria

[ember storm]

radiolaria is the key component

the vex cells are just removed

[trim grotto]

He... isn't... no, he isn't Avalon.
Spoiler warning
||He's dead. He died at the end.||

[vestal summit]

we won't ever ally with the Vex, their objectives are really similar to the witness in the way that they want the universe to be in their shape.

[remote sky]

NO OOOOO

[vestal summit]

and they aren't just robots you can take over.

[ember storm]

I like how the witness and the vex regularly go against each other but have no problem coordinating either

[vestal summit]

|| Rip ||

[ember storm]

total coworker vibe

[exotic cloak]

Now that I think about that

If witness made it

[ember storm]

made what

[exotic cloak]

Vex would just disappear with the rest of the universe?

like they are time travelers

[exotic cloak]

the final shape

[ember storm]

yeah

[remote sky]

The fact that we have two team galactics

[ember storm]

remember in D1 when the vex were completely passive and opened the door for us because oryx was corrupting the vault of glass

it’s just the same thing

they have no personal care for either side

[remote sky]

What

[ember storm]

when they’re in over their heads they just hope paracausal forces sort it out

then the vex spring up at any proper opportunity they get

otherwise it’s just, sit around and run simulations or grow moss

[green ether]

The Final Mcdonalds order... is coming...

[exotic cloak]

I mean I was thinking like they survivng the final shape and being the only ones facing the witness in its new perfect universe

[exotic cloak]

is not

[remote sky]

Oh bah shut ur shit

[exotic cloak]

is not in the script

[ember storm]

inb4 its delayed again

[green ether]

bit rude

[remote sky]

Ditto

[remote sky]

I typed innit?

[vestal summit]

remember seeing a twitter convo about how Rhulk would be a better end of saga villain than the witness.

[green ether]

👉👈 The Fiwal Shwape is coming UwU (after writing this I've decided to uninstall my life)

[green ether]

why u chattin shit?

[ember storm]

yeah no

Rhulk is just a redditor with daddy issues

he’s not compelling or remotely clever

[remote sky]

K but
L E G

[green ether]

don't dis my right leg man

[ember storm]

the witness abandoned him and forced him to train his replacement

it never cared for any disciple

[remote sky]

I think the first fire team to enter the traveller should use the pryamid ships lol

[green ether]

[remote sky]

Who's his replacement

[exotic cloak]

rhulk when he realises that he just move from a toxic relationship to another one

[remote sky]

Im assuming calus but

Isn't rhulk guarding something or
What is even doing in the raid

[exotic cloak]

At least he was cool and had the LEGS

[trim grotto]

He was trapped there by Savathûn. After her death, the wards began to fail, and he attempted to use The Upended to destroy the Throne World.

[exotic cloak]

Witness is just a cloud with terrible fashion sense

[remote sky]

Fucks an Upended?

[trim grotto]

Some manner of superweapon. I assume you haven't done the raid?

[remote sky]

Don't even own wq

No reason to besides osmiomancy

[exotic cloak]

Dont worry I did the raid and I have no idea wtf is upended

Did they explained it in the hidden ones mission?

[remote sky]

Oh and uh
Oryx and Savathun have their things
Did xivu arath ever get her own thing
Go big if you will, like a whole story segment

[trim grotto]

It's some manner of superweapon. It destroys worlds, somehow.

[remote sky]

Assumably what fucked his world up

[trim grotto]

She had Season of the Deep and Seraph. But no, she hasn't had a DLC go herself.

[trim grotto]

Hahaha no

That was him using the...

[remote sky]

Elaborate

[trim grotto]

One sec

[exotic cloak]

Their bros are just cooler than her

[ember storm]

Xivu has just been going around slaughtering civilizations in the background

like the cabal homeworld

[remote sky]

Savathun makes me think of Deadpool with all the bullshit she's pulled

[remote sky]

Is xivu still at large

[ember storm]

she’s weaker than she’s been in like a billion years

but she is still out there yes

I think it’s her hive in onslaught but no word on her

like Eramis

[trim grotto]

This must stop!

(Their faces inform only of relief.)

Stop!!!

(Their faces inform only of relief.)

I COMMAND YOU!!!

(Their faces inform only of relief.)

AHHHHH!

(The Sapphiric Sun implodes.)

PLEASE!

(Lubrae is cracking. Lubrae is shattering. Lubrae is upending. What have I done?)```
```(A shattered sky. A planet convulsing. Our existence, upended.)

(Their folly was their intended salvation. Siphoning light from the Sapphiric Sun itself. I use your Luster. Turn their technology against them, like a backfired pistol.)

(After serving them. Protecting them. Fighting for them. Suffering for them.)

(A shattered sky. A planet convulsing. Tearing apart.)```
The star that they drawed power and life from... he turned its power in on them.

[ember storm]

they’re just taking backseats until the episodes or later

[remote sky]

So the hive shit isn't over agh

[ember storm]

I mean it’s never going to be “over”

we’re never getting rid of them

[remote sky]

Hive Lords? Idfk

[ember storm]

wdym

[remote sky]

Hive lord arc

If you will

The triplets

[ember storm]

I don’t follow

[exotic cloak]

I think we will never get completely rid of any faction

[ember storm]

if all three osmium siblings are killed they’ll just have a bunch clambering for the throne

[remote sky]

Was he a sort of cloud strider for them? What's up with that "you don't recognize the bodies in the water" type repeating

[ember storm]

also Savathun is still alive and active

[remote sky]

I
Of course

Of fuckin COURSE

How many times has that fucker died????

[ember storm]

it was communicated blatantly and quite clearly in witch

[ember storm]

like, 3

in game at least

yknow dying over and over is just normal business of ascendant hive

[remote sky]

Sorry I keep hearing Savathun died shavatbun died svabgujn died

[ember storm]

the siblings killed themselves on the norm

[remote sky]

Well yeah they had the throne wods

[raw hazel]

That time Orxy dropped a War Moon on Xivu

Classic sibling shenanigans

[remote sky]

MY APOLOGIES?

[raw hazel]

I accept your apology

[ember storm]

Xivu hallows out moons and turns them into vehicles

oryx used her hobby against her

[remote sky]

Crazy how calus she sounds

Do she like
Add thrusters or uh

Hamster ball them

[ember storm]

I don’t see it

[remote sky]

Hollows out moons
Eats planets to
Make
Fuel
Vehicles

[ember storm]

that’s just basic sci fi villains

[remote sky]

Fat warmonger
Bug lady who kills entire civilizations to retain godhood

[ember storm]

Calus is the opposite of a warmonger

[remote sky]

Oh yeah he's like
Not cabal but cabal

[ember storm]

he was running cabal civilization into the ground because he careened it off a lavish cliff

[remote sky]

Explain

[ember storm]

he was a shit emperor

nothing he did was for the greater good

[remote sky]

Lmao

[ember storm]

it was all parties and enslaving whoever he wanted for the sake of it

[remote sky]

I thought he was good because of that right

[ember storm]

no

he wasn’t good at all

[remote sky]

Oh wait

[ember storm]

he had Caiatl’s pet dog left gutted on her bed because she loved it more than him

[remote sky]

I was using speech to text

[ember storm]

he also forced her personal handmaiden who raised her to do it

[remote sky]

Meant to say he thought he was good

[remote sky]

DAAMN

Fuck calus

Don't mess with dogs

Glad I killed his ass, now

[ember storm]

this isn’t even mentioning the piss scarves

[raw hazel]

Vile

[ember storm]

or how Calus

“nurtured”

[raw hazel]

Wretched

[trim grotto]

He was an outcast

And his anger issues resulted in him slaughtering his entire family as well

[remote sky]

wait wut

[ember storm]

when I say he was running a shitty gaudy society, I mean it

[trim grotto]

Don't ask about the piss scarves

[ember storm]

cabal elites had a specific species of genetically engineered organisms that served as accessories, namely scarves

they weren’t killed for their skins, mind you, the organisms were just worn while alive

and when something eats food it has to expel waste

and it’s not like they had union mandated bathroom breaks

[gentle geyser]

Scarf plushie in the bungie store when

[remote sky]

U H ?

So the scarves pissed?

What did they even eat?? Why couldn't they have been plant

[ember storm]

Caiatl was taught as a youth the inconspicuous hand motion that telegraphed servants to come and clean the urine off of them

this was all disclosed in a lore tab detailing Caiatl’s growing idolization of Ghaul, ending with something to the effect of “true cabal don’t have to wear scarves that piss”

[dim minnow]

Amazing

[outer dragon]

He thought she loved it more than him

But to him that's the same thing

[remote sky]

So THATS why we never knew about neomuna

Thanks vex, fuck you, vex.

[trim grotto]

It wasn't entirely the Vex causing their hidden status. They wiped all references to them from Rasputin's database and took precautions to stay hidden.

[remote sky]

They? As in.. Maya n whatnot

[trim grotto]

Their knowledge of us was limited but they were aware of the Dark Age Warlords, and it wasn't looking very safe. Instead of reaching out to us, they stayed hidden for safety.

Neomuni in general. For Rasputin's info wipe, that'd be Stargazer, one of the early Cloudstriders.

[dim minnow]

and they never thought to check up on us after a while

[remote sky]

What's up with this "symmetry with titan data?"

[trim grotto]

I'll need a dash of context.

[remote sky]

Osiris brought it up.

After everyone died

[trim grotto]

After... what? Who died?

[remote sky]

The entire research team. Doing the decrypting with the veil

[dim minnow]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/parting-the-veil-research-log-8?highlight=symmetry

[trim grotto]

There's the context, right

One moment

[remote sky]

Oh shit Lakshmi?

[dim minnow]

basically, Osiris is comparing Maya's fall from grace to the Witness' origins

seeing an unsettling amount of similarities

[trim grotto]

This was during Season of the Deep

So data from Ahsa about the Witness, I expect

[remote sky]

Yeah I was thinking about that. How everyone was going braindead? Kept thinking the same thing that created the witness kind of did that, but I don't think we're too clear on the witness

[trim grotto]

Well Season of the Deep also clears that up

Thanks, again, to Ahsa

[remote sky]

Damn

Whale knows everything lmao

[dim minnow]

how does she even know this?

[trim grotto]

I've got to get back to work but I'm sure Dova would be happy to provide you the cutscene or such

Ciao

[remote sky]

Arrivederci

[dim minnow]

the witness origin cutscene right?

[remote sky]

I believe yes

[dim minnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CKckjryVI

you can also find this ingame in the timeline tab

[remote sky]

Also, what's up with you and Petra?

[dim minnow]

another one asking for the list I see

[remote sky]

Oh of course

[candid inlet]

dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

Message Link to #📚lore-discussion

1. She was forced to work in the Last City as an Emissary as punishment for calling an airstrike that killed 3 fireteams of Guardians and their Ghosts who were fighting deeply entrenched Fallen Wolves.
2. While in exile, she showed great disdain towards the people of the city thinking that the "don't know their place".
3. Between Red War and Forsaken, when Cayde apprehended Fikrul and Uldren, she decided to lock Uldren up in the Prison of Elders alongside Fikrul and the other Scorn Barons and made sure only her, Cayde, and Variks were the only ones to know that the Prince was still alive.
4. After this, she left the task of curing Uldren and Fikrul's respective conditions solely on Variks' shoulders which could be seen as one of the leading factors behind his decision to abandon the Prison starting the vents of Forsaken. Could of asked techeuns or even the Last City to help, but no, must not make her people any less happy I guess.
5. She heavily despises Zavala even going to the point to where she fantasizes about being superior to him and mopping up his dissolved remains off of the floor. Not even joking here.
6. I really doubt she had no idea what Uldren was planning until she failed to stop him at the EDZ. She may not have known about Riven being behind it, but she had to know that Uldren took over the Tangled Shore so he could get to the Dreaming City. Maybe the Vanguard would have gotten involved if they knew Uldren could unleash a Taken Ahamkara, and maybe the Dreaming City fisaco wouldn't have been so bad. Instead Petra kept it a secret until after Uldren was able to reach his goal.
7. She wasn't even the one who summoned Guardians to aid the Awoken in the Dreaming City, that would be Paladin Kamala Rior.
8. Variks questioned quite a few of Petra's decisions as acting regent, including her lack of action towards preventing the Scorned Barons from growing in power.
9. Despite everything that has happened thus far, she has refused to change unlike Mara.

Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from · Jun 18, 2023, 6:34 AM

[dim minnow]

an additional item to the list would be Petra trying to gaslight Crow into thinking that Fikrul was not involved with what was going on in the Warlord's Ruin dungeon

[remote sky]

Oh she is/was hating on us

[dim minnow]

but I can;t add it due to message limitations

[dim minnow]

well she considers us friends

[remote sky]

Is that all? I've gott.. way more questions

[dim minnow]

like?

[remote sky]

Like.. what was Osiris's obsession?

What is chioma esi?

[dim minnow]

she is Maya's wife

[remote sky]

Oh that's her name?

[dim minnow]

Osiris found himself obsessing over trying to figure out a secret he learned about Savathun

after he got out of the coma she left him him

we find out that this secret was the Veil

[remote sky]

But he lost, according to him

[dim minnow]

and Osiris was very headlong on trying to get to it before the Witness hence his behavior in Lightfall

[remote sky]

HMMMMMM

HEADLONG, HMMMM?

[dim minnow]

the end of Lightfall has the Witness succeed in establishing the link with the Veil

[shadow crypt]

Is the Veil basically the traveler for the darkness

[remote sky]

wait wait wait haven't we heard Msund12 before? In that strike with the cabal psion boss or something?

Or was that something else

[shadow crypt]

It was in a strike where we heard that name

The inverted spire

Yea that

[dim minnow]

this might also not be the only obsession Osiris was referring to

it waas his obsession with the Infinite Forest (a powerful Vex Simulation engine) that led him to disappear

[remote sky]

Yeah that was his season or whatever, right?

Not even season, dlc

[dim minnow]

it was also his obsession with beating the Darkness that led him to chasing the High Celebrant of Xivu Arath leading to the loss of his Ghost

[dim minnow]

it happened prior to Curse of Osiris, but yes

the dlc does deal with that

[dim minnow]

wrong, Insight Terminus

Msund12 could be referring to one of the simulated copies of Maya that originated from the Golden Age

[remote sky]

Maya Sundaresh 12

o M g

[raw hazel]

Baaaaaaasically? It is an object/entity of Darkness through which the Weave, the web of consciousness that connects all living organic beings, flows through. And with which it also shares an innate connection to the Traveler. It is speculated that the Veil and the Traveler were once one, and even in that the Light and the Darkness used to be one, but for whatever reason was split.

[remote sky]

Oohehehee nimbus is getting smarting

Wait does that mean the witness has a weakness in the ghosts..?

[dim minnow]

during the Golden Age, a team of Ishtar researchers consisting of Maya Sundaresh, Chioma Esi, Dr. Shim, and Duane McNiadh were researching a Vex specimen when it began to simulate them. Of course, the simulations did not want to be subject to whatever hell the Vex would put them through, so they sought the help of a Warmind since it was too complex for the Vex to simulate

in the end, all of the copies of the researchers were rescued and they chose to be released into the Vex network to explore

[remote sky]

HOOH

Which is why chioma went to vex!!

[dim minnow]

there were at least 100-200 sets of simulations total

[raw hazel]

200 something, IIRC

[dim minnow]

she really did lose her mind after the Veil logs

[remote sky]

Well, you can't say you wouldn't too

Your loved one suddenly not giving a shit about you, about both of you essentially commiting mass murder

[dim minnow]

yeah, but subjecting yourself to whatever torture the Vex will put you through is not very ideal

[remote sky]

oooooh but "whatever it is we'll get through it together!!!" Cliche ass fuckin

[dim minnow]

just to give you an idea as to why having your fate in the hands of the Vex is probably the worst thing that can happen to you in the Destiny universe, I'll pull out my favorite lore excerpts regarding them

[candid inlet]

dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

Message Link to #📚lore-discussion

The Vex are, so far, simply curious. But Vex curiosity always leads to Vex transformation [...]

The Vex will not rest until every star has been crushed into a black hole and every newborn cosmos filled with more Vex. And in the unending array of their enslaved cosmos, they will simulate all possible pasts, and fill those with Vex, so that all things that have ever lived or might ever live will experience infestation and consumption and torment by the silica nightmare.

And in those devoured simulations, the simulated Vex will use our flesh as hosts for yet more nested universes full of yet more nested copies of us eternally tormented by yet more Vex.

An infinite regression of pain and madness inflicted upon every possible version of us in every possible world. Not because they hate us, or fear us, or want to punish us. But because they are indifferent and curious, and they will do every possible thing to us in every possible way.```

Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from · Aug 7, 2023, 11:10 PM

[remote sky]

Damn

But that does mean that, somewhere, there is at least one simulation where Maya and Esi live the happiest life they can.

[dim minnow]

maybe

[empty fern]

Somewhere

[chrome fog]

I’m reading all the backlog and I am baffled at how mixed up Trost’s lore knowledge is

Me reading the transitions to different pieces of lore from the past few hours
https://tenor.com/view/kermit-spinning-laundry-gif-15147601

[raw hazel]

It do be like that sometimes

[trim grotto]

Be that like do sometimes it

[raw hazel]

Be do that sometimes it like

[chrome fog]

Like it do be timesome

[remote sky]

Wait ancient apocalypse is saying something about a sweep over the entire system and losing light
Was this the red war or when the traveller repelled the ships

Wait not

I remember traveller doing a blast of light..

[chrome fog]

Which lore tab?

[remote sky]

Ancient apocalypse set

Not a tab

[trim grotto]

Ancient Apocalypse happened mid Red War
Or rather at the start

When the Light was caged

[remote sky]

Aye

[chrome fog]

Drifter on a weapons run whilst the the Red War was occurring; considering the set released in Forsaken it’s safe to assume it’s Red War as Arrivals was a year later at the tail end of Shadowkeep’s release year

[bleak orbit]

I just realised, but 62 is kinda high for an exo

[trim grotto]

Anything over 20 is considered high, yes.

[bleak orbit]

Then it just mean I'm a literal god

||I'm just acoustic||

[trim grotto]

I don't imagine it affects Guardians too badly. At least, we've seen no negative effects on Lightbearer Guardians. That said, the highest example is... Nkechi-32, I believe.

[bleak orbit]

Isn't it the gunsmith the highest example? Banshee-44 iirc

[trim grotto]

No, but he isn't a Lightbearer, either.

[bleak orbit]

oh ye

[trim grotto]

Nkechi-32 was part of Lord Shaxx's fireteam as he retook Twilight Gap.

[bleak orbit]

I should really learn the whole destiny lore slowly

[trim grotto]

There's a lot to cover.

[bleak orbit]

Cuz I'm missing so much stuff and I don't understand some part of campaigns because of that

[trim grotto]

Well, we can certainly help with that. Not tonight for me though, as I've got a headache and am about to die. In future though!

[bleak orbit]

dw

I'll go here everytime I've a question

But not rn, I have to study

(Even if I've no idea what that word mean)

[hardy anvil]

How the heck did we add Succession and Forbearance to the brave arsenal?

[exotic cloak]

I mean

Those are just weapons

Nothing was stopping us to do reverse engineering to make a mass production of them

Anyway I don't know if that's the actual explanation but can be

[ember storm]

rip in the outback

[halcyon aspen]

Question I've always been curious about. Once a ghost rezzes a guardian, are they bound to that guardian, or can they go off and find someone else to rez?

[ember storm]

they’re bound

ghosts can’t cut themselves off or find a new partner

a ghost may just personally choose to not resurrect their guardian at any point, but that’s not like some explicit mechanic

it’s just personal choice

like one guardian was suffering delusions and viewed everything in the lens of a medieval fantasy

when he got himself killed the ghost just didn’t revive him again

[chrome fog]

Not… necessarily, just means either you went insane a couple too many times or got yourself crunched up one too many times.

[bleak orbit]

gonna ignore what you just said and still think I'm a god because of that high number

||I just got crunched up too many times||

[chrome fog]

[ember storm]

an exo with a high number is far from a good thing

it means you’re either incredibly faulty or Clovis just hated you that much

[chrome fog]

Oooo what was Echo’s number?

[ember storm]

something in the 2600 range

or 2060

either way not good

[bleak orbit]

I'm hated because I'm incredibly faulty

[remote sky]

Hang on, why are there so many cars in the cosmodrome? Was it an evacuation area?

[rich veldt]

its where the exodus ships launched from yes

[remote sky]

Damn we was an evacuee
Question is, weren't the awoken created in space, and stayed in space?

Or am I thinking wrong

[rich veldt]

if you arent an awoken then in your head canon you could be an evacuee
the awoken were created when light and dark clashed where one of the exodus shipswas in space (very tldr)

[remote sky]

Yeah yeah something something embryo hit mara or whatever

But every guardian, from our perspective, is raised in the evacuation area. How are we awoken?

If the awoken were created AFTER EVACUATION

[rich veldt]

travelled to earth and died there

[raw hazel]

You could be a Reefborn that was scouting out the place, or an Earthborn that died in the area from the Fallen

[remote sky]

Honestly, I should've thought of that. Was, but didn't pay attention to it

[rich veldt]

bungie leave it pretty loosly open

make your own headcanon n all

[raw hazel]

Yeah, there’s plenty of viable reasons any of them could be there

[remote sky]

I understand, that's the whole point. You're guardian isnt some default to everyone else's, and I like that. It's a mystery. Could be anything. And now, I'm going to go write a story from my guardians. Good day.

[eager trout]

when Bungie decides to make the expansions free a few weeks after you already bought them

[fast tapir]

well

free for a limited time

also this may not be the right channel

[eager trout]

shrug

[ember storm]

not really an evacuation, more so crowds of people trying to get to exodus ships they weren’t meant to be on

I remember clues to riots that blew up fuel lines and caused numerous exodus ships to never launch

[jagged badge]

#✨destiny-discussion

[ember storm]

dunno if that was actually established lore or something byf cooked up, either way, there was literally the apocalypse happening and people just wanted to leave

[naive raptor]

How tall was cayde six?

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Oddly specific question but I don't believe we have any information on that

[exotic cloak]

I guess he's the same size of everyone

There's no actual canon height but we know shaxx is just taller than everyone and people usually asume he is 6'4

Although for desing reasons is evident why all models in-game and cinematics are the same size

[rich veldt]

^ this. bungie hasnt given heights for anyone, with all but shaxx using the same model. its just a head canon thing how tall you want people to be

[barren adder]

Hi, quick question but how or why does the Vex in the Season of the Witch look so different?

[trim grotto]

They're Sol Divisive Vex, who make their home in the Black Garden.

[exotic cloak]

Wait Sol Divisive are the same ones of Garden Of Salvation then?

[rich veldt]

yes

[barren adder]

I hope Vex are the next big baddies, seems to me that the next saga will focus on an enemy that wields both light and dark

[raw hazel]

Tbh it does kinda seem like it’s going that way (which I will go on a lore tangent shortly after this scorched match)

[barren adder]

We will get a final shape, it won't be the Witness's but if we do not get big, huge ramifications on the first few weeks on Final Shape I will be quite disappointed
The whole saga reads as there will be a big shift at the end

[raw hazel]

So, I've actually been doing a lotta thinking lately about where the story might be going, the plot threads they've been setting up, and in general where I hope things will go- So NOW I am going to share my entirely unsolicited thoughts for the next little bit

Imo the biggest thing right now is them decoupling the Light and Darkness from the Traveler and the Witness, respectively. Which is the biggest thread they've been developing for the longest while now:

• This is as back as early as Forsaken, as from the shenanigans of Shin Malphur with having us purify Thorn, and working with Drifter on Gambit, to introduce the idea to Guardians of safely wielding the Darkness.
• From there we slowly learned that unlike we had previously assumed, the Light and Darkness aren't moralistic forces as he had once assumed- Light can be used for evil, and the Dark can be used for good. (See: The Warlords, people learning to safely wield Stasis, etcetc.)
• Witch Queen, and to a lesser extent LF with Nezarec, opened the possibility of those outside of humanity and its cousins to becoming Lightbearers/generally able to wield it.
• Rewinding back as early to Presage, and beyond (even Inspiral is a good source on this), the more we've of the Darkness and Witness, the more we've come to the understand that the Witness isn't some god of Darkness, it is simply simply the strongest wielder of the Darkness, and has essentially co-opted the majority of the force- But again, as shown with the Veil there are sources and powers of Darkness beyond its ken. And we also know that practically anyone can learn to wield the Dark. (Hell even the Sol Divisive seem to be learning to wield Darkness.)
• Falling back to LF, with the Veil Containment logs and other sources over the last year- The Light and the Darkness may have once been connected into a single force. Ergo- The Traveler, a being/entity closely tied with the Light, and the Veil, an object/entity closely/inherently tied with the Darkness, if this holds true were likely a singular entity before becoming separated.
• And now, coming FS, with the Witness seemingly trying to steal the Light, we have Prismatic, where we will have the power to wield both forces simultaneously.

I am of the mind that we're going to see both forces unify back into a singular one- A singular force with different shades, which can be more widely wielded all around. This seems, at least to me, the most logical conclusion of what they've been slowly setting up.

It does make me wonder what'll happen to the Traveler/Gardener though- Will she and the Veil be reunified as well? Or, perhaps, will the WItness somehow decouple the Light from her, and with its defeat and the Darkness decoupled from it, with the forces intermingle from there? I'm kind of hopeful for the latter, and I would ADORE being able to have the Gardener around as someone we can just finally talk to and learn more from.

(Tho now a few fingers hurt from typing so I'm going to get some ice, so I'll hold off on the rest of my tirade for a bit)

[light stratus]

Could a Guardian become taken

[raw hazel]

Not as far as we're aware. There's never been any that we know of, likely having to do with our nature as Lightbearers.

Of course, that was from Oryx.. Hypothetically, maybe the Witness could Take a Guardian, though if it's true that the Dread are just spliced together from other alien races, I feel something like that is more likely.

[jagged badge]

Sloane’s Light saves her from being actually properly Taken

[trim grotto]

Vex currently wield neither as they cannot comprehend it, not even the Sol Divisive. If they learn to comprehend or use it, it'd be disastrous.

[raw hazel]

Oh yeah that's a great point about Sloane

[trim grotto]

We may get massive ramifications but a Final Shape is an end-state of the universe. We rather strongly do not want a Final Shape, as it means the universe has lost.

[chrome fog]

Or at the very least, much like Hally has brought up, if we are forced to enact a Final Shape it can possibly unbind the restrictions of Light and Darkness as we know it; Darkness has already been detangled from the Witness influence for the most part because guardians’ sheer will to overcome the Witness’ influence through Stasis and our harnessing of Deepsight and Strand, and its death in FS will completely guarantee its absence within the Darkness (hopefully, ‘Winnower possibly being a mindbug thing that makes people aim to achieve its goals’ theory pending further information)

Ockham’s Razor says we just prevent the Witness’ Final Shape from occurring, but there is the possibility of us being unable to prevent the ritual or whatever from going through and having to enact our own Final Shape

[trim grotto]

That doesn't sound particularly Final.

[raw hazel]

But maybe I'll finally be able to take the Traveler out on a date..

[raw hazel]

Continuing off of my earlier tangent, I do feel like there's some plot threads we could end up exploring down the line:

• Depending on if she's defeated in Final Shape or not, Xivu Arath is otherwise most definitely going to pop up. And at least with her, we now have a chance to actually defeat her. Especially should Caiatl and the Cabal Ascendcy go through with their plan to recapture Torobotl.
• The Nine have been awfully quiet for a long while and, if the Light and Dark do unify into a freely flowing paracausal power, I imagine that would catch their interests.
• Atraks-1 is hinted at possibly being alive still, and I could see her taking up the reigns of House Salvation after the Witness' defeat, to become our resident Fallen adversary.
• The Vex are the type of thing to be ever-present, and in particular I can see the Sol Divisive still being a persistent pain in our backside- Especially for the Vex too overall, if they can access the Light and Dark.
• Maybe Lysander will pop back up? The Concordat is definitely still out there somewhere given the recently gifted Skimmers.
• Riven's children are, at least right now, yet to be hatched. I'm generally curious to see what the future holds for the Ahamkara given Taranis showed that they can be good-natured. (And particularly if those rumored survivors of the Great Hunt are true, then I don't imagine they'll likely be friends anytime soon.)
• I'm not familiar with Warlord's Ruin's lore, but apparently Fikrul is still around? Wherever he is, I imagine he's going to crop back up eventually.

[barren adder]

I see Final Shape as been the union of Light and Darkness, not necessary to have it like the Witness wants just have that union been made

[exotic cloak]

I mean Xivu is probably being the enemy on Heresy

I really doubt they go back to the hidden swarm

[jagged badge]

The Final Shape is literally an end condition for the universe

There are different Final Shapes in that different parties envision/want different results for the end

[exotic cloak]

The other two chapters people was theorising Sol Divise and Fikrul if I remember correctly

[jagged badge]

But it is the end

[chrome fog]

I mean technically a Final Shape could just be the universe as it is but now Zavala has a mustache. As it is presented, the Final Shape is whatever the individual thinks of - the Chronicon being the most illustrative example

[exotic cloak]

What has me confuse is this new lore about Atraks

[chrome fog]

However you want the universe to be

[exotic cloak]

Like DSC blows up and then she just disappears for three years or more while House Of Salvation is pretty much being send to hell

[chrome fog]

Doesn’t necessarily mean a total end to things, but in the case of the Witness that would seem to very much be the way of things

[exotic cloak]

If she is actually alive I guess they will find an excuse but damn it will have to be good

[trim grotto]

As it is presented, the Final Shape is a singular endpoint of the universe wherein it largely becomes static in some manner. A single winner, an end, the one above all for all time.

A determined end

Chaos, for good or ill, would be eliminated

[chrome fog]

Key point being this is the Final Shape for the Witness, and I would present Calus’ interpretation of what the Final Shape could be; again, the Final Shape that is about to occur is most definitely an end to existence as we know it, but like I presented perhaps the Guardian will be presented with having to enact a Final Shape that might not be too different from how the universe is now.

[jagged badge]

Didn’t Calus also wanna be the last guy left?

[chrome fog]

Literally this Ben Ten clip could be exactly how a Final Shape is enacted
https://youtu.be/uTSATtDdt-A?feature=share?

[chrome fog]

From how the Chronicon presented the “Final Shape” it was mostly just stuff going the way that he wanted, and everything being for his entertainment

[raw hazel]

(I am kind of inclined to agree with Mael on this personally- At least, given so far it seems like the concept of the Final Shape is something that was originated by the Witness/its precusor species.)

All other ideas of what the Final Shape could/may be are all seemingly just derivatives from that.

The Witness never exactly told its Disciples/the Hive of what it was actually planning for the Final Shape, so the rest essentially tried to fill in the blanks with their own interpretations.

And even then, the Witness' vision for the Final Shape is, imo, the most pressing one- Given its currently the one closest to achieving its vision for it.

[trim grotto]

No, key point being that this is what a Final Shape is. What you are describing is not, in any manner, Final. The Shape may shift, but it is not Final.

That is what we seek to uphold.

A Vex Final Shape is all Vex, all simulated. The universe will continue, but all that will or can shift or change is simulated and controlled. All else is cold, burnt out, Vex.

[red comet]

Do yous believe that out there On a vex machine world on fighting a hyper advanced civilisation there’s more vex warrior units? (a unit that’s sole purpose is combat such as the wyverns) (similar to what calus believed)

[trim grotto]

I will begin by stating that Wyverns have no lore, least of all any claiming they're combat units.

[stiff hull]

Me, a destiny player who skips dialogue and lore, entering the lore channel

[trim grotto]

However, it is plausible that there are designed, designated, "combat units" rather than the armed yet multi purpose Vex units we see today.

[chrome fog]

I mean we’re open to helping you catch up if you need it

[honest snow]

archivists, head my call
may i learn what uses do molts have that make them valuable

[trim grotto]

Motes, you mean?

[stiff hull]

Ngl I was expecting to be swarmed with “fraud” but sure I don’t mind learning about the lore

[trim grotto]

One cannot learn without seeking learning

[honest snow]

yes, mb. ik the drifter sells them but what makes them valuable to sell

[trim grotto]

There is no fraud

[jagged badge]

We can still do that if you want

[stiff hull]

I’m interested as to how we (the guardian) actually end up where we are at the start

[red comet]

I like to think there is

[stiff hull]

Fighting for my life

[red comet]

The vex are My favourite imo

[raw hazel]

HERETIC

[red comet]

They are so cool

[raw hazel]

FALSE IDOLLLLL

[stiff hull]

Eh?

Oh nvm

[honest snow]

im betting we were war criminal, and this is our 2nd chance, like crow

[raw hazel]

(I kid I kid)

[jagged badge]

We don’t know. That’s meant to be unknown/open ended so you can imagine it yourself. Also because a consistent back story does not necessarily work with all three races

[stiff hull]

Tis fine

[trim grotto]

He doesn't sell them. He uses them in his Darkness tinkering and kitbash tech, and as part of his doomsday plans. However, we don't actually know what he does with them.

[stiff hull]

Fair

[stiff hull]

Being a war criminal sounds hella interesting

[trim grotto]

There cannot be answer for this, given the fact that we could be any race, as well as that it leaves headcanon open.

[stiff hull]

Hm

Okay

What about ghost

[trim grotto]

At current, there is not.

[red comet]

Would you consider the vex a species?

[stiff hull]

Why was he there

[chrome fog]

We’ve handled stupid many times, some of us have even been guilty of it, but just asking for the lore ain’t stupid so no worries

[red comet]

I mean like other vex units that’s sole purpose is combat

Like ik there isn’t

[trim grotto]

Yes, they are. The Radiolaria contained within the mind fluid is the Vex.

[honest snow]

for some reason im just imagining him whistling in a garage building exsplosives with darkness

[jagged badge]

He was searching for his Guardian

[red comet]

I just like to think that somewhere out there there is

[stiff hull]

so we’re not his original guardian?

[trim grotto]

We are

[stiff hull]

O

[jagged badge]

We are. I mean he was searching for us

And he found us

[stiff hull]

Damn would’ve been interesting if we weren’t

[raw hazel]

Yeah, it's one Ghost to one Lightbearer.

[stiff hull]

Ah

[trim grotto]

Ghosts roam the world(s) searching for someone they feel a Spark in to raise as their Guardian

[stiff hull]

I’ve seen a theory where the witness isn’t a single being, it’s a whole species

[jagged badge]

Not a theory

[stiff hull]

Sounds far fetched

O

[raw hazel]

You would be correct in that

[red comet]

I reckon a lightbearing eliksni would be cold asf

[stiff hull]

Well shit this is what happens when you skip dialogue

[jagged badge]

It’s what we learned from the Witness’ origin cutscene

[red comet]

You should watch the cutscenes

[trim grotto]

A cutscene, in this case

[red comet]

They are cool asf

[chrome fog]

Trust us when there isn’t; the only lore we have on Wyverns is specifically from someone who doesn’t know what he’s saying and is the same entry which suggests there are combat frames, when there is no other categorization of them as such prior to that

[raw hazel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CKckjryVI&pp=ygUUdGhlIHdpdG5lc3MgY3V0c2NlbmU%3D

[honest snow]

how does a ghost change its shell, do they just pop out of one and into the other or do they just change their form like a shape shifter

[raw hazel]

Watch this

[stiff hull]

Yeah I should binge destiny cutscenes ngl thanks

[red comet]

You should read what I followed that up with instead

[jagged badge]

The shell is a physical thing that can be changed

[red comet]

.

[jagged badge]

We see Immaru changing his shell and such in Festival of the Lost lore

[trim grotto]

The former, basically
Though the process isn't thoroughly described

[red comet]

Asin that’s what I meant not that I like to think there’s lore for them

[stiff hull]

Isn’t prismatic meant to be a canon guardian? As in the guardian is meant to be able to handle light and darkness at the same time

[trim grotto]

Not exactly no

[stiff hull]

Oh right

[chrome fog]

And again, the suggestion of combat frames comes from Calus, the guy who tries to entice us with “Beers of root and nuggets of chicken”

[jagged badge]

The Hive Ghost had snuck out of the Tower, leaving his bone-ridge shell behind to avoid unwanted attention. He filched an old Shaded Shell from an office junk drawer. The sunglasses made it perfect for sneaking around undercover. Given the gaudy shells these preening Tower Ghosts wore, Immaru was sure his new appearance would go unnoticed.

[jagged badge]

“Lore accurate Guardian” is a widespread thing in the community but it’s not really accurate at all

[stiff hull]

[honest snow]

does he actually say that?

[jagged badge]

The average “lore accurate Guardian” is just your average blueberry in a strike

Still learning one subclass

[stiff hull]

Lmao 😭

[trim grotto]

Guardians never wielded Darkness before Beyond Light.^ We have not, however, wielded them at the same time, together.

^except for some corrupted exceptions or people like Drifter and Eris

[jagged badge]

Prismatic is supposed to be a new power

[stiff hull]

Ikora only wields light right?

[jagged badge]

A specific thing that allows us to use our abilities in complete concert

[jagged badge]

I think it’s been hinted she’s dabbled with Darkness

I could be wrong

[trim grotto]

Well the Chronicon does
Essentially a fanfic of the future made by his Psions to appease him

[stiff hull]

That would be cool

[red comet]

Is it true that guardians aren’t limited to light abilities by class, I seen something about it where a titan could use golden gun but I’m just making sure

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/opulent-stalker-cloak

[stiff hull]

A titan with golden gun

[trim grotto]

She's tried Strand and has totally definitely not used Stasis, wink wink

[jagged badge]

Not exactly

[chrome fog]

Ironically no it’s the opulent armor set

[red comet]

Ikora definitely has

[jagged badge]

Crow explicitly has a line about Warlocks not being able to do a Golden Gun or something like that

[stiff hull]

Ah yes ofc

[trim grotto]

Yes, which is part of the Chronicon

[gentle geyser]

Ikora 100% went into pvp during beyond light

[jagged badge]

She did not

Ikora hasn’t touched the Crucible since the Dark Ages

[trim grotto]

As a serious answer, not since becoming Vanguard

[red comet]

I lowkey fw the darkness cl

[gentle geyser]

Im making a joke

[stiff hull]

WWWWW

[jagged badge]

She can’t afford to be Vanguard and a Crucible champion for several reasons

[stiff hull]

I honestly feel like Stasis is underrated

[red comet]

Like an interesting play through of this game would be as a disciple of the witness and not a guardian of the traveler

[trim grotto]

I'm aware, which is why I clarified that I was giving it a serious answer regardless

[red comet]

Strand is where it’s at for me

[chrome fog]

I hate highlighter on iOS

[gentle geyser]

It isn’t

[stiff hull]

I used to like it until I saw everybody and their grandmas using it

[stiff hull]

I never see anyone use it

[red comet]

I barely see it

[gentle geyser]

Because they nerfed it hard and everything else is better

[jagged badge]

Because it is correctly rated

[red comet]

Have yous seen they are finally making the dlcs free

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

To clarify

Recorded by Underscribe Shipal```
This makes it Chronicon

[chrome fog]

Oh, I wasn’t actually sure if we solely regarded the Chronicon as a lore book and supplemented by the Opulent set or were a part of the Chronicon

[stiff hull]

I’m still a stasis fan

[chrome fog]

Man you really haven’t watched any cutscenes

[stiff hull]

Nope

[red comet]

Bungie has lost their greatest power, a paywall

[jagged badge]

I think that was a comment on gameplay tbf

[honest snow]

omg i love calus

[raw hazel]

I agree, it’s pretty….

Cool

[jagged badge]

Until June 4th

[red comet]

I lowkey fw Rhulk

[jagged badge]

They’ve done this before too

[gentle geyser]

Free for under a month

[jagged badge]

It’s not new

[trim grotto]

That was, again, his Psions writing what he thought he'd like

[stiff hull]

Like fr I can jump into a dungeon and fight a big ass ogre and not even wonder how it came to be

[honest snow]

mr step on me has many fans

[trim grotto]

Weird on all Fronts

[red comet]

Well it is when you took a 6 year break and started playing again half way through season of defiance

[stiff hull]

Until June 3rd or 4th I forgot

[red comet]

I lowkey fw him for other reasons

He’s cold asf

[gentle geyser]

3rd

[jagged badge]

[stiff hull]

I have the expansions, but for those who haven’t will they lose their strand and stasis subclasses when the free period is over?

[trim grotto]

Yes

[stiff hull]

That sucks

[red comet]

Not if you bought it I don’t think

[trim grotto]

Most likely

[stiff hull]

Feel bad for them

[trim grotto]

Well obvious not if you bought it

[stiff hull]

Yes duh

[red comet]

Guess they just gotta give into bungie and feed the great paywall

[stiff hull]

I can see bungo making it a requirement to have all the subclasses to access prismatic

[honest snow]

is the lightfall with ps plus only for this month?

or do i get it keep it aslong as i have ps plus

[stiff hull]

I think the latter

[jagged badge]

Uh, no

[red comet]

No you keep it as long as your PlayStation account exists

[flint ibex]

his lore is some of the best in the game tbh

[stiff hull]

I see the vision, share my vision

[red comet]

Like if you download it now

[stiff hull]

Deepsight it Eris

[jagged badge]

They won’t lock Prismatic behind Final Shape and then lock parts of Prismatic behind separate purchases beyond that

[gentle geyser]

No

[jagged badge]

That’s silly

[stiff hull]

[jagged badge]

Anyway, back to lore

[red comet]

I can see them doing that

[gentle geyser]

Nvm didn’t read ps+

[jagged badge]

[stiff hull]

[honest snow]

do gaurdians need to sleep?

[stiff hull]

The pre-order ghost shell is tempting but I really don’t think it’s worth £42 💀

[red comet]

I think it would be fun yet horrible to fight Rhulk at full power

Well not full

But I mean where he isn’t playing with us

[stiff hull]

That’s the only appealing thing to me

[flint ibex]

the pyramid ship is the only reason to preorder imo

[stiff hull]

I mean maybe

[trim grotto]

They don't need to but they feel the desire to

It's still good for you

[red comet]

Fr

[flint ibex]

the whole jist is that rhulk didnt take us seriously until his final stand which is when he went berserk

[red comet]

Not me, I’m like Batman

[honest snow]

i wonder if they sleep on their ships or have a place in the last city they live at

[flint ibex]

cuz he realized guardians can beat his ass

[stiff hull]

Yeah the ship doesn’t really appeal to me bc u literally only look at it in orbit.. the ghost shell however you’ll use often but since it’s the only thing I like out of everything idk man

[red comet]

Yes I mean through the whole thing however

[trim grotto]

Depends on the Guardian
Sloane had an apartment in the City for example

[red comet]

Also the caretaker is goofy as hell

[stiff hull]

Bro makes domain expansion signs

[honest snow]

oh i just ment our gaurdian specificlly

[flint ibex]

to be fair we likely would have lost

[stiff hull]

Wouldn’t it be cool if guardians could do domain expansions

[trim grotto]

No data

[red comet]

Quasimodo ahh boss

[honest snow]

i know that, i was just stating im curious really

[red comet]

They probably don’t need to sleep actually

[flint ibex]

shes cool as hell I cant lie

[honest snow]

just dumping a thought is all

[red comet]

Nuh-uh

[stiff hull]

So the light is basically our life source

[trim grotto]

As I said, Guardians do not need to sleep, but should.

[stiff hull]

Might end up like eris morn

[trim grotto]

Not exactly, no. Look at Eris. She lost her Light when Byra died.

[red comet]

I don’t think they’d be plagued by such things

Same with hunger

Or thirst

[stiff hull]

I see

[jagged badge]

Well, they are

[trim grotto]

Well let me introduce you to the reason why Drifter has an eating disorder

[red comet]

Hold the mother fricking phone

[jagged badge]

Drifter explicitly talks about his experiences keeling over and dying of hunger in the Dark Age

[stiff hull]

I’ve noticed I haven’t seen kids or villages per se in destiny so who exactly is humanity