📚lore-discussion

[exotic cloak]

Wait a lost sector

[pure tree]

Bakris

[ember storm]

that portion of the campaign where you go to the cosmodrome and talk to Shaw

You kill Bakris there

[exotic cloak]

Ah yeah

[gentle geyser]

Correction not a story mission, a strike

[exotic cloak]

Wait a strike

[pure tree]

Isn't eramis' mission only a story mission?

[exotic cloak]

What we killed in that strike

[pure tree]

I mean, we didn't kill her persay, but we did knock her out for a while until plunder I think

[gentle geyser]

Eramis single handedly fucking over thousands upon thousands of eliksni lives because a big ball left them

[exotic cloak]

I mean

That about entire civilization collapsing

I guess if seraph traveler actually traveled far from solar system we would also be upset

[gentle geyser]

Vex portal she opened, didn’t think we were also counting eramis’ mission too

[exotic cloak]

I mean yeah but we don't kill house of salvation leaders there

Just big hydra

[gentle geyser]

Well yea but she opened a vex portal out of sheer pettiness

[gentle geyser]

No, eramis killed her own people with the opening though

[exotic cloak]

Yeah

Girl started taking bad decisions after she realised how much her entire crew sucked

😔

Wait

Who is the strongest member of House Of Salvation

[gentle geyser]

Variks calling Eramis out on her bullshit is still peak imo

[exotic cloak]

Like, Kridis is stronger than Eramis?

And Atraks is not the final boss but she clearly can be a bigger threat than the immortal guy

[pure tree]

I mean, Atraks and Taniks are both raid bosses and an active threat to a team of 6

While we soloed everyone else

[gentle geyser]

That doesn’t mean anything tbf

[exotic cloak]

In Spanish is a really amazing moment

[pure tree]

But also Atraks also had Morningstar on her side

[gentle geyser]

Atraks probably is the strongest simply due to the tech from dsc

[jagged badge]

Not really

[pure tree]

Kridis did have a mastery or at least greater understanding of stasis than anyone else tho

[jagged badge]

Her whole plan with the Glassway was to harvest Radiolaria for her Exo army

That was Eramis’ end goal

Stasis wielding Exo Eliksni army

[pure tree]

Like she didn't need Praksis' tech or a splinter to use Stasis iirc

Oh nvm she still had a splinter

[gentle geyser]

Her plan was to create an army instead of protect her people, she also multiple times has to speed up because we just take down the leaders so fast, she was obsessed with being stronger and she didn’t want to accept that maybe she was a tiny tad bit in the wrong

[jagged badge]

Sure

But opening the Glassway wasn’t just some random, petty “fuck you”

It was a specific measure of the plan for her Empire

[gentle geyser]

I mean she did it while being actively told that it was a bad idea (which it was and backfired) and was doing it because we were destroying her army too fast

The gateway being opened immediately backfired, its clear she didn’t think it through

She did it on a moments notice to stop us

[pure tree]

Tbf, the people telling her it was a bad idea was Variks, us and idk if Elsie was there

All people against her

[gentle geyser]

Yes, doesn’t change that she did it on a moments notice

[pure tree]

Girly still done fucked up big time tho

[gentle geyser]

She really didn’t have a plan

Eramis did more harm for the Eliksni than arguably us being on europa in the first place

[pure tree]

I wonder how much would've changed if Eramis told Atraks to go to the DSC when we first showed up and not after murking Phylaks and Praksis

[jagged badge]

Elsie didn’t personally involve herself in the Salvation stuff tbh

Aside from that one platoon she, Eris and Drifter fought

She didn’t interact with Eramis or anyone. Hell, I don’t think she even speaks to Variks in the campaign either

[eager trout]

What

[eager trout]

Fun fact: in the Spanish dub, Variks is voiced by the same guy who voices Homer Simpson

[trim grotto]

Radiolaria transformed by Clarity (Darkness from the statue) creates Alkahest, a key piece of stable Exomind construction and Exobody power.

Without it, braindeath, among other things.

[dim minnow]

and Clarity itself is a Darkness-based effect that reduces something to a simpler state

in this case, Radiolaria is reduced into a reductive pattern

[ember storm]

you lobotomize vex milk and replace it with human minds

[gentle geyser]

Hey guys, I think this clovis guy might’ve been bad

[ember storm]

I mean killing vex is far from a bad thing

[gentle geyser]

I mean what he did outside of that

[dim minnow]

at leat he somehow had a change of heart at the end of it

just before he put his brainscans into the AI and Clovis-1

[pure tree]

Clovis-1 is a swell dude
Clovis I is a not swell dude

[past glen]

Guys

Have you read the new Luna’s lore

Old vs new

[sharp osprey]

in our character's grave in the corridors of time, is the "favorite weapon" Saint refers to Bastion or is it the sword on our grave?

[chrome fog]

Bastion; I had the same confusion, but it is a part of the exotic quest to get it

[sharp osprey]

the interesting thing is that i'm pretty sure Saint has stored nearby him in the Tower a sword that looks identical to the one on the grave

was Bastion like made from the remnants of the grave or something? I wasnt playing destiny that season

[chrome fog]

Idk you’d have to find videos recording the quest steps

[hollow hinge]

just watched a silly comparison video and it got me thinking.. where does our guardian roughly rank in the power ranking of all guardians?

[quiet turret]

very high

[hollow hinge]

yea I figured that, that answer doesn't really help

@trim grotto hi

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

[hollow hinge]

That's Ikora

[chrome fog]

I believe that excerpt from the WQ CE also details the percentile of guardians who master even one subclass

Of which, it’s surprisingly rare for Guardians to master multiple subclasses, much less be the Guardian and develop one on your own using new power you just discovered

If you need Mael’s seal of approval, he uses the same excerpt
#📚lore-discussion message

[hollow hinge]

No that is for a different question

Yes we're clearly very powerful having mastered a few subclasses and some of darkness' subclasses but that excerpt is still not about our guardian so my question still remains on the table

[sharp osprey]

i'm not 100% sure, but i think there's a pretty good argument for most powerful ever, or at least most accomplished ever

[hollow hinge]

if we're going in that direction I'd rather argue that we have potentially the highest power ceiling considering that we've only been around for about a decade and already this powerful meanwhile it took some other guardians decades if not centuries to nurture their power

[sharp osprey]

this is also true

[chrome fog]

Notice the second citation of Mael’s message stating that a vast majority of guardians have barely begun to master one subclass

[hollow hinge]

vast majority can indicate anywhere from 60% to ~90% (or higher)
so again, I consider my question still unanswered

[chrome fog]

That is still a massive number considering the population of Guardians estimated in that excerpt, and our one Guardian has a handle on 5, one of which they developed themselves

Though that is also to say that we’re not excessively more potent in our Light capabilities such as Ikora, but we’re pretty high in power rankings considering what the average is. Saint and Ikora would most likely be more powerful than us considering how effective Ikora was in the Crucible and how that might translate into capability outside of the arena, as well as Saint having a reputation of wholesale slaughter of entire armies having decimated Eliksni houses as well as rampaging through the Vex Network for a considerable amount of time even with his Light removed

And even in that same portion of the WQ CE, it puts powerscaling aside with the following explanation (taken from the transcript in pins: <#📚lore-discussion message>)

The entire last section itself serves as response to powerscaling in the community, in that whilst yes some significant guardians have proven themselves more powerful or what not with their feats, knowledge, and capabilities, Paracausality as a whole is meant to break that scaling

So to answer your question, we’re above average and perfectly capable; not as powerful as say Ikora or Saint, but we are consistently able to overcome great stakes

[hollow hinge]

Not happy with that answer, I'll wait

[raw hazel]

I don't think you're going to get a much better answer than that

[chrome fog]

And again, even though Mael’s word isn’t wholly determinant of whether something is true or not, he himself has given essentially the same explanation

We’ve had powerscalers in here before

It is always the same answer

[raw hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/02-darling-in-the-franxx-gif-12855275

[chrome fog]

“Not the most powerful, but consistently versatile and successful”

Also Mael’s in the middle of his shift currently

Which means I’m waaay past my time for bed

Stew on it if you want, he’ll probably agree with what I’ve said

[exotic cloak]

I mean even with that she was clearly stronger

As her abilites show

[pure tree]

Is she able to wield stasis without anything?

Like draw on its power in a similar way we did at the end of the campaign

[raw hazel]

Aye, using a Splinter is basically like training wheels- Getting someone used to it until they can draw on their inner Darkness.

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/good-morning-wake-up-wakey-wakey-awaken-gif-26734899

I took a nap

Lemme uh
Hang out the washing and stuff and I'll get back to you

[trim grotto]

i also made dinner and hung a painting
heheh

alright so where are we

[empty fern]

Gone, reduced to back to whatever you needed to do

[trim grotto]

Well to be honest, gestaltzerfall has answered the question for me, but regardless: We are consistently reliable, capable, and have gone from "the one in the right place at the right time" to the one consistently called upon to Get Shit Done.

However, we cannot truly give an accurate representation of our "power level" due to player skill discrepancy, and there are accomplishments that other well known Guardians can do that we cannot. Hell, even Osiris can learn to be a master of Strand or even Stasis should he attempt it, and he lost his Ghost.

It is, however, worth mentioning that there are many Guardians who are still learning one subclass, for example. So we're on the right side of the bell curve by default. Nevertheless, our major accomplishments are also considered to be done in a Fireteam. Campaigns are sort of solo canon but that's intentionally iffy, but most other things? Fireteams can be assumed.

[hollow hinge]

Fair enough I suppose. I get why but it still kind of sucks not knowing exactly where we stand

[willow dagger]

I’m ready. I want to know about Cayde’s family

[tropic ocean]

[trim grotto]

Technically speaking, there's not much concrete to say, but here we go.

Cayde was, like literally all Exo (bar Lord Felwinter and the Seraph Rasputin Exobody), a human of the Golden Age. In his human life, he had a son and a partner. Ace, and the woman whom he referred to as his Queen.
—what can I say, I was just in too deep, Ace. I had to do something. For your sake, above all. I had lost any hope of cashing in, and to be honest, that big payday wasn't coming, not with the jobs I was finding, so when I got word of what was going on out there—
—so there you have it, Ace, that's why I did what I did. I had no choice, really. It was that or the great beyond. Just know your dad did what he had to do if I ever wanted to see you and your mother again. You probably won't recognize me, since I'll be, well, a robot and all, but I'll find you, I promise—

Now, Cayde kept a journal, both as a human and into his Exo lives. It was through this journal that he, as Cayde-1 through -6 knew who Ace and Queen were, but the sad truth is that due to the wipes (and Ghost resurrection), he didn't actually remember them. Cayde... projected feelings onto these names on the page.

He made a connection to them, and this journal was what, in his eyes, made him into the man we knew. Without it, he feared he might have become... worse.

[willow dagger]

;&;&?’m omggggg

[trim grotto]

I know I don't write you very often, ya know? But it's better than never.

Ain't easy for me to find the words. I mean, it is, I find them. But I know they're not always the right ones. Too much flash. Too much looking out for how I'm looking, not enough just telling it how it is. That's why I'm doing this, Ace. That's why you and me are having these words. Easier to say them than scrawl 'em. This way, now that I'm doing it, it feels more honest, if I'm being… Feels more true.

Thing is—and I'm sorry it's like this, but… I can only talk to you… in my mind. In my heart… This is how one-to-one works now.

Father and son.

Cayde and his firecracker Ace.```
```There are journals. Don't call 'em a diary. A three-eyed gal with a preference for deep holes and nightmares always called 'em diaries. Don't take cues from her. Anyway…

End of the day, New Me—if that's you—you get to choose who and how you want to be. The hope is maybe I can guide you a bit, like the "me before me" did.

And when you get to the part about the kid and the girl—my Ace and my Queen…

They're yours, too. By right. Because they are… all yours, a gift. And you'll be the better for it.

And, if you don't feel that thing—that soft spot in the middle of all that circuitry—when you get to them, then, if you are me… you aren't like me at all. And that means you're trouble.

The good kind, or the bad, impossible for me to know. All I can do is give you the tools to raise you right.```

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/all-in
This entry - heck, the whole book, but particlarly this entry - is highly relevant, and a very good read.

Even into his Guardian life, he still wrote to Ace in his journal.

—from the journals of Cayde-6```

...even in the middle of the Red War, right before we found him stuck in the Vex teleportation network.

—from the journals of Cayde-6```

[willow dagger]

[trim grotto]

—from the journals of Cayde-6```

It... worked for him. But it's terribly sad, in its own way. We don't know if Cayde ever found his family again after becoming an Exo.

It is implied that he didn't.

[willow dagger]

Omgg nooo

[trim grotto]

This would be where his card theme comes from, too. Ace of Spades, Queen of Hearts, so on.

And, of course, it explains some of his last words: "I'm coming home, Ace."

[willow dagger]

So his story is like a sad/cute

[trim grotto]

It is, yeah.

[willow dagger]

Alas, this is why you are my favorite Orange!

[trim grotto]

[jagged badge]

I’m confused with that one that mentions Eris but then refers to a future self still

[trim grotto]

It's "in case of Cayde-7" basically

Which is not implausible

[jagged badge]

Ah right

[empty fern]

Wall of mael

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

this is gerrymandering

[eager trout]

He got WHAT from what twins?????

[trim grotto]

...kisses, dude.

[eager trout]

Oh

[ember storm]

you know there’s a non zero chance that Spider owns a physical piece of undertale merch

[empty fern]

Hmmmm

[ember storm]

now is he a frisk sweater or sans hoodie type guy

[empty fern]

He’s a flowy figurine type guy

[chrome fog]

He specifically has a plushie of undyne I know it

[empty fern]

[exotic cloak]

Oh yeah I forgot

We also can do the joke of "everything is canon" like happens in Warhammer

when Traveler traveled to here

[rich veldt]

well atleast up to 2014, but hey maybe the destiny universe never had to experience halo 4 onwards

[raw hazel]

Truly the better timeline

[fossil niche]

wait so why did crow go into the traveler portal again?

[jagged badge]

As siblings combined with funky Awoken shenanigans, Crow and Mara share a connection that can be used to trace and follow Crow once he’s through the portal

We’ll be able to open the way and navigate it as it were without consequence

Or at least while potentially being able to avoid consequence

[fossil niche]

and the place in the trailer is inside the traveler?

[jagged badge]

Yes

[fossil niche]

cool

[jagged badge]

The Pale Heart

[next bobcat]

Was the leviathan an actual beast or just a ship? What were its origins? Explain everything

[rich veldt]

both, theres different leviathans

[next bobcat]

Ik about Ahsa

[rich veldt]

theres both calus ship and atleast 1 leviathan creature

ashas different

[next bobcat]

Ah

[rich veldt]

i mean the leviathan of fundament you can see the rib of in vow/that one activity set in rhulks pyramid

[next bobcat]

Yeah I remember kind of

So is dead?

I remember rhulk killed it with that rib

[rich veldt]

well he certainley maimed it by taking the rib

(my lore knowledge is very shallow i know basics of stuff and research as and when i need to)

[empty fern]

[rich veldt]

i used to be good then i quit for like 2 years

[ember storm]

he tore out and beat it with its rib but didn’t kill it

the hive and worm gods finished it off

[next bobcat]

Oof

[empty fern]

Little snack

[rotund adder]

The Leviathan,the ship was based off of a creature on toribotle (idk how to spell it), the Cabals home world, and then there's the Leviathan that was explained with the hive

[next bobcat]

Ah ok

I think it’s Torobatl?

Idk either lmao

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/neon-sign-neon-no-negative-not-gif-24492666

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/neon-sign-check-mark-check-green-neon-gif-24492664

[rotund adder]

Yeah it is. I can't spell in general lmao

[next bobcat]

Leviathan creature

Doom caterpillar

I feel like if you fused an ahamkara with a cabal it would be that

Ahamkara feast on granting wishes, this thing just feasts on physical matter it’s easier

[raw hazel]

Me when I smell cheese

[bleak orbit]

The reappearance of Mars? wut? What does Ikora mean? (in the first mission of the witch queen)

[gentle geyser]

You should finish the campaign before coming here

[bleak orbit]

ye true

[jagged badge]

In Season of Arrivals, the Black Fleet appeared in the Solar system. Pyramid ships loomed over Mars, Mercury, Titan and Io. At the end of the season, the Black Fleet took them. They disappeared from the sky, leaving gravitational anomalies in their wake. And then over a year later, just prior to us arriving at the start of the Witch Queen campaign, Mars mysteriously returns

[bleak orbit]

oooooooooh

Thanks

[next bobcat]

What happened on mercury? Never heard much about it

Vex stuff I think

So basically, we can kind of access io, Mars and Titan. Have bungie just ignored mercury?

[trim grotto]

Io has not returned.
"Then return to the memory of your investigation on Io," she instructs you. "Vanquish your enemies there, opening neural pathways to knowledge that even you did not know you possessed."
It's a memory.

Only Mars and Titan have returned.

[next bobcat]

Darn

But still

We can kind of still access it in a way

[trim grotto]

Mercury was home to the Infinite Forest, a massive simulation engine contained within the core of Mercury itself.

[next bobcat]

Ahhh

That’s where it is

Is that where the lighthouse is?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

[next bobcat]

Oh

So what do we know about the limits of Ahamkara power?

Could we theoretically work with an ahamkara to just obliterate the black fleet?

The witness, even?

[trim grotto]

Well they're all dead, for starters

And secondly, no. Ahamkara power has limits, and even were it to be fulfilled, nobody knows the manner in which it will be fulfilled.

[gentle geyser]

Also its pretty late to be destroying the black fleet

Theres not much we can do other than hold out

[chrome fog]

For example Zoup, the Curse on the Dreaming City required our extreme desire to kill Riven in order for her to grant that wish

[iron mortar]

Is there a lore explanation on how gaining super energy and abilities work

And is there lore reason why crucible games like mayhem have crazy super energy

[gentle geyser]

There doesn’t need to be

Easiest explanation for normal cooldowns is you simply are exhausted

Also guardians range in strength

[trim grotto]

Not exactly, bar a vague mastery of Light sort of vibe. There is this, however.

The giant creature pulls back its other fist and its steel muscles bunch. I reach for the Light and get… nothing? Huh. Right. I used my flaming gun on those three Taken outside the obelisk. Gotta learn to count.

What I love about my Ghost—```
That said, I will mention that adepts such as Ikora and Osiris have used "supers" in quick succession.

[trim grotto]

Shaxx says it's our Light unchained and without restriction but I wouldn't put huge stock on the funny pvp gamemode

[gentle geyser]

Cayde on screen swapped supers within under a minute

Pretty sure ikora has too

[iron mortar]

and this is a weird question but can guardians have kids

like biological kids

[trim grotto]

*Probably not

I've actually got this in my FAQ gimme a sec

[iron mortar]

interesting, why so

[trim grotto]

The topic of this question has never truly been broached, leaving it largely to theory. Although the topic was nearly brought up by Isirah, the Ghost of Saladin Forge, in the following excerpt, it doesn't clarify whether it is an inability, if it refers to Saladin alone, or whether it is a choice.
"You'll never have a son, his Ghost had said, "but it isn't too late for you to take an apprentice."
In the past, Zavala had raised a son, Hakim, but Hakim was adopted as a child. The lack of any supporting evidence on the topic of biological children in general suggests that at the very least that Guardians do not have kids. Whether this is a choice or inability is unclear.

The lack of circumstantial evidence suggests it is not possible, in my personal opinion.

[raw hazel]

I'm also of the opinion that Lightbearers should not have children because well, what happens if that kid is just a regular ol' person?

[gentle geyser]

Obviously they would be

[raw hazel]

They already easily get out of touch with mortal people because of how long lived they are.

[trim grotto]

which they most likely would be

[raw hazel]

Exactly.

[gentle geyser]

But Im pretty certain the reason is they just can’t

[gentle geyser]

Your making that sound like a bad thing

[raw hazel]

Because they'd be outliving their children.

And their children's children.

[chrome fog]

I would very much not like to outlive my own child, that sounds like a nightmare

[raw hazel]

And their children's children's children.

That sounds like the recipe to a living nightmare.

[gentle geyser]

As much as it sounds morbid, it really isn’t, if you spend time with them, you very much have time to accept what will happen and be with them

[trim grotto]

that's kind of a person by person sort of topic

not an objective blanketed statement

[raw hazel]

Yeah, and even then that's very much easier said than done in general

[gentle geyser]

So is going oh but they’ll die eventually
You could easily spend 20 years of actual time with that person if not significantly more

[trim grotto]

yeah this has tangented pretty hard into a weird territory

[raw hazel]

I feel like you're really downplaying how hard it is process a loved one's death

So I'm going to move on

[gentle geyser]

Your downplaying the fact that you could spend more time with them than people spend with their actual loved ones in real life

[iron mortar]

is there any lore written from the perspective of our guardian or watching our guardian(outside of dead messenger lore tab), and also what does our guardian do when we some events in the lore are happening that they could go to

[gentle geyser]

Yes

[iron mortar]

really sauce?

[gentle geyser]

The player also is also the main source of instances, example being raids, even if you don’t participate in them the player character is apart of the team that did the raid

[remote sky]

Tell me about trevor

[gentle geyser]

Fear

[remote sky]

What???? Who is this Trevor guy??

[gentle geyser]

You should play zero hour on may 14th

[iron mortar]

but what about lore entries and grimore card

[chrome fog]

That is true, but imagine how haunting it would be to live more time after their deaths than the time you got to spend together, that in the midst of your wide lifespan they were but a droplet, yet still so impactful

[iron mortar]

do they ever mention our character as a threat or something they should look out for

[remote sky]

I don't understand

Also as in zero hour the quest nimbus gave me?

[gentle geyser]

Exotic quest dropping on may 14th

[trim grotto]

Occasionally. Not a ton.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/hawkmoon
Here's Crow, us, and Savathûn when she was still posing as Osiris.

[trim grotto]

That isn't the name of that quest.

There's an Exotic mission called Zero Hour coming soon on the 14th.

[remote sky]

Stg it was smthn like that

[trim grotto]

From Zero

[remote sky]

And guess I'll do that too

FUCK

[gentle geyser]

You’ll love trevor when you meet him

[remote sky]

Why am I so bad at mental faculties

[trim grotto]

We're rarely mentioned specifically.

We are on occasion, but it's more often references to Guardians as a whole.

[remote sky]

I think the hidden designated us, the guardian, as VIP 2014 but I'm never gonna say anything confidently cuz idk if it's misinfo

[trim grotto]

We are 2014, yes, but we're hardly designated as a threat by our own Hidden.

[remote sky]

Not a threat to them.. yet

[trim grotto]

[chrome fog]

We are as the ticket says: VIP, Very Important Person

[gentle geyser]

We literally worked with them for witch queen

[chrome fog]

During Drifter our possible turn was considered but it has been way past that now and the Hidden know to trust us

[remote sky]

Hey man, I'm just saying, I wouldn't mind being a warlord again

[chrome fog]

That'd be a pretty stupid idea

[remote sky]

Aw shucks

[chrome fog]

There is a reason irl society and society in the Last City has moved past feudalism and oppressive land ownership and that is because that shit is heinous

[raw hazel]

It just begets more and more needless violence

All you hear about the Dark Age is how horrible it was

Well, not all, but certainly the majority of it

[chrome fog]

Shaxx is apparently the only good Warlord, and even he hated what he did back then

[trim grotto]

well, there was Naeem

[empty fern]

@earnest needle ?

[hollow hinge]

We were put on that list because we single handedly went into the BG and destroyed the black heart

We were designated as VIP 2014 simply because we appeared out of nowhere and almost immediately performed incredible feats

[chrome fog]

Yes

[hollow hinge]

Sorry got sidetracked, my comment was mainly that not every VIP is marked as such because they're a threat

Can also be because they're just persons of interest that might become useful in the future

[chrome fog]

I was addressing the earlier claim by another user that we were a potential threat, in which we had somewhat bumped against Praxic Order member Aunor, and to that me and other members in this channel addressed that very point

So yes I know

For reference, here is the message in question #📚lore-discussion message

[hollow hinge]

Yea ik I saw

There isn't gonna be a scenario where we turn

[chrome fog]

Great

I will certainly keep this in mind, thank you for informing me of this

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

Fair, though we don’t get much on her prior to coming upon the old fort with the Ahamkara bones so who knows what she did that warranted running away from the Iron Lords

[trim grotto]

Shaxx wasn't exactly innocent either

[chrome fog]

That’s my point

Even with those whom we give high regard, the Warlords were not suitable for leading humanity as they were driven mostly by selfish desires and preservation of themselves despite their power, which is why the Iron Lords brought about the change that they sought and paved the way for the City Age

[iron mortar]

Was the future we saw with Saint 14 and us dead and bastion being our favorite weapon

Is that an alternate timeline

Or a possible future

Because I know damn well bastion is not my favorite weapon(witherhoard my beloved)

[trim grotto]

It was a possible future/timeline.

[raw hazel]

Just like the possible timeline where Mael and I run Legend Starcrossed

😔

[jagged badge]

Heheh

I’m just remembering Mael and I’s run of legend Starcrossed

And specifically a clip he got from it

[trim grotto]

Heheh

[jagged badge]

Do you still have that lying around somewhere?

[trim grotto]

It's on my Medal page

[velvet flax]

Starcrossed 💀

[next bobcat]

If I just punched a ghost really hard, could I kill it?

And when guardians’ ghosts de-materialise, where do they go or are they just poof?

[ember storm]

if you’re paracausal, yes

if you’re not, no

you’d be punching solid metal and just shatter your hand

when ghosts “poof”, even they don’t know where they go specifically

it’s just some thing they can do to be safe while near their guardian

it’s not transmat, they’re not going to a physical location

they just kinda go

[next bobcat]

And lore-wise, why don’t raid bosses like oryx or nezarec just kill your ghosts?

[ember storm]

the leading theory is they turn into pure light and just piggyback off of us, but eh

[ember storm]

lore wise no enemy ingame kills ghosts

because it’s a video game

[next bobcat]

Navota

[ember storm]

what about her

[next bobcat]

Killed 2 ghosts

[ember storm]

that’s a story beat

[next bobcat]

Ik but

[ember storm]

player ghosts can’t be killed because it’s a video game

that’s literally it

there is nothing about it that changes the scenario

it’s literally just a video game

[next bobcat]

Oryx could very easily kill your ghost. There’s no lore explanation in lore. That seems a bit dumb

[ember storm]

story wise it’s literally never meant to happen so what’s the point

you can entertain yourself with imagining whatever happens when you wipe

[next bobcat]

If a random guardian (not us) fought oryx, could their ghost die?

[ember storm]

but gameplay is gameplay

[ember storm]

our ghost would die too

it just doesn’t happen because it’s a video game

that’s literally it

there is no special quality that makes our ghost unique over others

[next bobcat]

When they say things like “killed by the architects” do they mean the nine?

[jagged badge]

No

[ember storm]

that’s a joke

[next bobcat]

Who the architects

Bungie?

[jagged badge]

Basically yeah

[ember storm]

you get killed by the architects of the map when you die to fall damage or other physical means

like you miss your jump and fall off a cliff

the architect kills you, indirectly

[next bobcat]

Warlocks:

[blazing wasp]

The architects are the devs that made the stuff

[blazing wasp]

Warlocks who suck at pressing double jump*

[next bobcat]

Nyehhh

[ember storm]

the only people who can’t use warlock jump don’t use warlock at all

[next bobcat]

Blink users

[ember storm]

they played it like once during the tutorial and gave up

that’s literally why bungie had to make a kiddie ramp to that cosmodrome lost sector

[blazing wasp]

The only con of warlocks burst glide is extremely rare to experience for experienced player

[ember storm]

literally just look before you leap

[next bobcat]

Petition to make all warlocks start as void, all hunters start as arc, and all titans start as solar. We give warlocks and hunters blink to start, but automatically give titans a full solar synthoceps build.

[ember storm]

aren’t warlocks void by default already

[chrome fog]

(Tbh idr) They’ve kept that starting subclass thing from D1, though changed it to better fit what’s conventional for D2

Ikora even has those new subclass kits for new lights

[ember storm]

it takes you like half an hour to complete new light and get the other subclasses

[exotic cloak]

Nah we need to convince new players of true titan power

[chrome fog]

Which is the other point: aside from a starting subclass already being a thing from D1 and little ways into D2, you already get all the subclasses early into your game career (In regards to Zoup’s suggestion)

[exotic cloak]

Thunderclap and havoc are good giving you a first impression

[bleak orbit]

Can someone recommend me a good video for a lore recap ? cuz I'm currently lost

[exotic cloak]

Bungie made some https://youtu.be/vI0yaZxFb64?si=97hxG_4cAC8PITV3
https://youtu.be/om28A9hTST0?si=4525M_lDgEDkg7VG

I think the second video is included in the first one

[ember storm]

second video is included in the tutorial

[exotic cloak]

Oh I forgot

[bleak orbit]

thx

[light stratus]

Was tessellation a hint to prismatic

[jagged badge]

Probably yeah

[remote sky]

Is there a lore reason why exo stranger has a pouka

Poukka

Whatever it is

Pond birds

[ember storm]

she found it

[remote sky]

But then why'd it follow her?

[ember storm]

wasn’t exactly living it big in an abandoned space station

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/speed-metal-shell
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/quicksilver-storm

Read in that order

[remote sky]

Why did Ana show up?

[ember storm]

why not

[remote sky]

Also kinda miffed I didn't preorder for that shell

[jagged badge]

She didn’t

—And Ana's tiny hands pull me into a hug. Her dress is dirty and she's crying; Grandfather's totally gonna freak, I think as I pet her hair. "It's okay. I'll help."—

I start as Tokki's friend slithers into my hand and coos. "I'll… help," I realize.```

The Pouka is connected with memory

And triggered one in Elsie

[remote sky]

Oh

[jagged badge]

It’s them as children

[remote sky]

Is there a reason? Or did it just
Happen.

[remote sky]

Crazy y'all ain't even notice the batmanarkham joke here

[raw hazel]

[blazing wasp]

It's not originally from there

[raw hazel]

The pouka, I'm assuming?

[remote sky]

Elaborate

[blazing wasp]

The subreddit joke

It originates from

[remote sky]

Nah it's "is there a lore reason"

[blazing wasp]

Fuck... some 4chan gag

Old

[remote sky]

Tbh batmanarkham basically is 4chan

[blazing wasp]

P sure it predates the room they used for the backrooms

So it's well over a decade?

[remote sky]

Jeesh

[chrome mountain]

Hi, how do I know if I have finished story or campaign of first expansion Beyond Light?

[west cloak]

once you’ve unlocked stasis is when you’ve pretty much completed BL, you’ll know once it says “Beyond Light Completed” or something similar at the bottom of your screen

Elsie will also offer Born in Darkness: Part One quest

[fresh zephyr]

So are Tormentors part of the Dread? I thought they were based off Nezarec?

Either way, the Dread are exciting

[raw hazel]

Yuh, they’re the first of the Dread we encountered

[gentle geyser]

The dread are a completely crafted species

[remote sky]

Wtf is a dread

[gentle geyser]

With several units being based on/being existing species

[gentle geyser]

The Witness’ self crafted army

[remote sky]

Inecraft

Witness uses spawn eggs

[chrome fog]

Watch the FS trailers

[chrome mountain]

How can I remove my head as I don’t want to see as transmog?

[gentle geyser]

Wrong channel

[chrome mountain]

Ah sry

[fresh zephyr]

I don't know how I'm physically going to fight the Witness😭

If Onslaught is anything to go by, how do we even get close? Lmao

[raw hazel]

We kick it in the shins

[chrome mountain]

Could someone help me?

[jagged badge]

If it’s a gameplay question, #❓destiny-questions

[rich veldt]

just as with every big challenge before, teamwork

[remote sky]

Love your pfp man

Anyway, isn't the witness like
Supermassive or sum shit

I remember seeing a picture of them being huge

[jagged badge]

It can probably alter its size

[fresh zephyr]

I don't know about teamwork this time

It flicked its wrist and destroyed a ghost, I really don't know what we're going to do lol

At least with Oryx, we challenged the Sword Logic with Bomb Logic.

Do we have any sort of counter to the Witness yet?

[jagged badge]

Yeah, D.A.R.C.I

I kinda like the fact we’ve spent all this time struggling to even get through the portal and we don’t even know how we’re possibly gonna actually face the Witness

Sells the desperation of the situation imo

[fresh zephyr]

Agreed

190%

The hopelessness has really got me excited weirdly

Onslaught and the amount of force the Witness has at its disposal has really sold the weight of the threat too

And the fact Eramis has left the system too, really made me think about House Salvation as a whole

If the Witness is defeated, Eramis is finally free

[ember storm]

lore question why does my dog keep eating socks

[west cloak]

how do we realistically have a chance to defeat the witness?

mans sliced a guardian without even trying

[remote sky]

Wasn't sure where to ask this so
Do zavala and the gang even have helmets

[light stratus]

Could a hive god have 2 Thorne worlds

[lavish ridge]

whats yall top 5 strongest guardians (trying to prove a point) including the player charater if you want

[lavish ridge]

yes its simular to the Jovian Guard helmet

[remote sky]

..and the rest of the gang?

[lavish ridge]

idk ikoras and i dont think cayde had one

alot of exos dont use them

[west cloak]

i use them smh

[eager trout]

"From a tactical perspective, the Slap Rifle is a Vex directed-energy weapon that fills their analog of the light infantry role. From an engineering perspective it's something much more interesting: a terminal. The Slap Rifle receives a bolt of Solar energy from somewhere (or somewhen) else and it points it at a target.
The terminal's flexibility is impressive. In non-combat conditions, the Slap Rifle seems like it might serve as a viable field transmitter, construction tool, navigational beacon, network repeater, or any of a number of other utility functions."

Vex Multitool canon

[keen obsidian]

Is sunshot hand cannon made of stone?

[jagged badge]

What makes you think that?

[next bobcat]

Why would it be?

[remote sky]

Is there a reason?

[remote sky]

I mean, technically, metal is stone

[chrome fog]

I mean unless I’m missing a coincidental pattern, this isn’t necessarily the case

[trim grotto]

Pouka communicate through memories and feelings. I'll show some entries later.

[remote sky]

1. That's crazy
2. I thought they were ai?? How the heck can they send such specific electric signals to do that
3. Also it's asking Elsie for help. Cool.

[trim grotto]

It's forged from a metal by a Sunbreaker, Liu Feng.

[trim grotto]

We've seen no evidence of such.

[trim grotto]

Pouka are cool and I'll get back to you shortly

[remote sky]

I shall wait

[eager trout]

I swear, Liu Feng made half of the exotics that are not made from our enemies

[keen obsidian]

In the lore for it said it will speak like her hammer so the sunshot must be made from stone

[chrome fog]

Makes sense as their forge is considerably famous

[chrome fog]

… hammers can be made from metal

[trim grotto]

Hammers don't tend to be made from stone, Chris.

[chrome fog]

Notably I don’t think the hammer all Solar Titans wield sounds like it’s made from stone when you toss it against a surface

[trim grotto]

Well, she's made... Sunbracers and Sunshot.

So that's a little less than half

[lavish ridge]

I mean cayde, the exo stranger, and shiro dont use helmets saint is the only one who does, but to fair i think theyre all also hunters so that could play a part in it

[chrome fog]

That is a pretty good coincidence I’ll give you that

[trim grotto]

Elsie Bray isn't a Lightbearer at all, to be fair.

She just likes cloaks too. Good fashion sense.

[lavish ridge]

its also crazy to me that besides saint all exo light bearers are hunters

like besides our guardian of course

[lavish ridge]

i still want to know some answers to this

[raw hazel]

I mean that's also hardly accurate. There are plenty of Exo Guardians that're not Hunters in the lore.

[lavish ridge]

yeah but when we dont see what they look like it doesnt help the cause of them not wearing helmets

[trim grotto]

Only those you see in game. There are others. Nkechi-32, for example.

[raw hazel]

Eriana-3, Jana-14, Marlenx-3, etcetc

[empty fern]

Where felwinter

[raw hazel]

Dead

[empty fern]

Oh there he is

Very much alive

[trim grotto]

I like how Hally and I went for the niche Exo when Felwinter was the most well known and obvious pick

[raw hazel]

That'd be too easy tho

[empty fern]

Still infact unpicked

[trim grotto]

Honestly I forgot he existed for a hot second

[empty fern]

Teco?

Techo

Takko?

Savathuns eyeball

[trim grotto]

Taeko?

[raw hazel]

Taeko, I assume you mean

[empty fern]

Think so

[trim grotto]

A squad of niiine

[raw hazel]

Also a warlock

...

[trim grotto]

Yes, she was a Praxic Warlock

[raw hazel]

There's a lotta -3 Exo Warlorks

[empty fern]

Sus

Oh yea, was andal brask human or exo? (One of the hunter vanguards)

[raw hazel]

Human

[empty fern]

Damn

Oh yea, on another note

[trim grotto]

Very hooman

[empty fern]

Y’all ever explore d1 items for any little lore bits?

[trim grotto]

Occasionally
I enjoy reading the Errata

[raw hazel]

Back when I played D1

It’s been a while

[empty fern]

Indeed (I got it back and am enjoying every bit of it)

[trim grotto]

ah, found it

[trim grotto]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F69xskzANEasO07bBemadXbtM44o3vdOkWL3uCaQ0C4/edit

This may be of interest to you, as a sort of sequel to the prior two entries. Before you read this, however...

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/on-the-verge-interlude-with-osiris

[remote sky]

Hear me out. Tokki feels the call somewhere on or near Neptune, right
Cloud strider guardian might just be a thing, or at the least, neomuni.

[trim grotto]

It's not implausible

[remote sky]

Why do you use big words

I had to ask google about that one man

[trim grotto]

Your name uses Insurmountable

[remote sky]

Cuz I like skullfort, duhhh

Tbh I knew what plausible meant but as I thought about it the definition left me

[empty fern]

Most interesting super subtle lore bit from d1 GO

(From green weapon flavor text to npc lines)

[trim grotto]

can i reference the entire Pahanin Errata

[empty fern]

Hmmmm

You may

[trim grotto]

"Your missions: protect the City. Look better than Warlocks. But don't look like you're trying." - Pahanin Errata

—Pahanin Errata```
```"Mission goal four, keep your boots clean. Five, keep your gun clean. Six, make friends with a Titan. Never know when one will come in handy."

Pahanin Errata```
```"Tell a Titan only a madman would go. Tell a Warlock it's too complex." - Pahanin Errata```
```"I can't shake hands with Warlocks. I just get so nervous they're going to vaporize me." - Pahanin Errata```
```"I can't shake hands with Warlocks. I just get so nervous they're going to vaporize me." - Pahanin Errata```
```"If human extinction seems imminent, try to relax. You're just giving cephalopods a shot." - Pahanin Errata```
```"Yes, my love for cephalopods is well documented." —Pahanin Errata```

heheh

[raw hazel]

I love Pahanin

[trim grotto]

alternatively, the Pujari-Wei Ratio

PUJARI-WEI RATIO: colloquial. Amount of time Warlocks spend planning battles versus time Titans spend winning them.

[empty fern]

[trim grotto]

fun fact
Wei Ning punched Ikora in the head once

[jagged badge]

Why?

[trim grotto]

[empty fern]

Titan

And warlocks

And for some reason
Cephalopods

[trim grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAYwqqQrXR8&list=PLS2hBTtCDufSlod2asS3rVBOGDUoPjkk4&index=17

https://youtu.be/9kPpW9yTC-s?si=Ell9S6FE9pX-ZgR4

ALRIGHT ZAVALA I SEE HOW IT IS

JEEZ

[empty fern]

Lmfaoooo

[dim minnow]

"So I ask Wei Ning: what about the Darkness itself? What then? And she says: I'll punch it too." - Pahanin Errata

also where was this Wei punched Ikora thing from

I don't recall that

[trim grotto]

yeah i skipped that one

[trim grotto]

The Hidden Dossier

first half

[dim minnow]

"And of course, the siphuncle is essential. Heh. Siphuncle. What a great word." —Pahanin Errata

"The black gloves are tough, menacing and—I swear—make you unbeatable at Go." —Pahanin Errata

[trim grotto]

I do love the Errata

[dim minnow]

you reckon he visited Old Japan if it even still exists in lore?

[trim grotto]

I... don't know

[full turtle]

cayde solos witness

[trim grotto]

Cayde couldn't solo zombie Fallen.

[raw hazel]

Dude tried using Golden Gun on ads

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-golden-gun-cayde-6-gif-5092586121148371285

wow 3 red bar cabal

[raw hazel]

This is why they kept him in the Tower

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/cayde-destiny2-the-last-stand-of-cayde6-the-gunslinger-gif-15217750

Me when last word

[gentle geyser]

We was bored

[barren adder]

Gotta say that I'm loving how they do story in this season

[raw hazel]

For all the problems I have with seasons as a concept, at the very least their story presentation has (overall) been pretty good

[ember storm]

isn’t deep also the first time we see anyone drink ingame

[empty fern]

Probably

[chrome fog]

Technically Plunder? We cheers with Drifter that one time

[remote sky]

Just how much did Liu Feng make?

[raw hazel]

Just Sunshot and the Sunbracers

[eager trout]

Ok, better question, how many things are directly or indirectly (like being made for her, or by someone who knows her) related to Liu Feng?

[raw hazel]

Sunshot and Sunbracers

[eager trout]

What about the lion???

[shadow crypt]

What do Guardians do for leisure?

[raw hazel]

Wei Ning wasn't a Sunbreaker

And, about the usually as you would imagine

Socializing, games, racing sparrows, etc

It's canon that Guardians will dance randomly in the field

[eager trout]

So all emotes are canon

[chrome fog]

Yes

[eager trout]

Tentacle emote is canon💀

[chrome fog]

Get your head out of the gutter

[next bobcat]

So Calus was a robot in the leviathan raid - where was actual calus in that time?

[broken bloom]

I think if we got a Calus and Zavala make out tape it would be pretty hot. Any objections?

[empty fern]

Dance in the tower or sit still for hours

In the tower

[empty fern]

In a cage somewhere, maybe in presage?

[umbral geyser]

None

[next bobcat]

Explain

Is presage a place?

[trim grotto]

The Glykon, a Cabal ship. And, no.

[next bobcat]

I was thinking that

[trim grotto]

At the time, Calus was elsewhere on the Leviathan, controlling the robot psionically.

[next bobcat]

Ah

[cunning stirrup]

speaking of, is there a canonical reason why calus is so extravagant and opulent

or is it just insatiable greed

[ember storm]

the thing is

there’s not always going to be a reason

that’s not how people work

you don’t need a sympathetic backstory for why someone is just insatiably greedy and narcissistic

bungie literally made it clear as day by showing Calus stealing food from baby Caiatl directly out of her hands

it doesn’t get more on the nose than that

and also her dog was in that shot, the one he hand gutted and left sprawled on her bed because she loved it

and he also forced her handmaiden who basically raised her to do it

[gentle geyser]

Sometimes bad people don’t have reasons, they are just bad

[chrome fog]

You could point to an inevitable counter to the militaristic government system and culture of the Cabal as is present with Calus’ push for the arts and “culture” during his reign, but yes inevitably it boils down to Calus being an extremely vain and narcissistic turd

To such a comical point I think his claim of what the Final Shape will be makes an easy example of what someone’s Final Shape would look like, as in define a Final Shape as an image one has of how the universe should be as

[exotic cloak]

I want the universe to be a brand new Taniks

[white girder]

2025 expansion should have more futuristic elements, solarpunk, a company, founded by a member of Bray family (possibly one of the children of Clovis II)

[white girder]

nah that if enemies used discord video, taniks is the architects

[trim grotto]

An attempt to fill the void in his life. I'll explain later if I remember.

[trim grotto]

Clovis 1's grandkids still worked with/for Clovis Bray/Braytech the company. Alton, Elsie, Ana, WIlla.

[white girder]

i know but one of them has to fix the wrongdoings of Clovis 1, and reclaim sol for humanity.

also, when will we stop fighting enemies, and try to reclaim?

[raw hazel]

[trim grotto]

Ana and Elsie.

They've already been doing it.

[dim minnow]

and maybe Banshee will join in

but he does seem pretty content with being a gunsmith

[raw hazel]

Yeah, not gonna fault if he keeps on keeping on

[white girder]

nah apart from the final shape, most of destiny 2 is very confusing lol

[white girder]

not enough lol

[fresh zephyr]

What are the Shadow Legion doing at the moment?

I presume it's the same as the Taken after Quria was defeated, they are just wandering.

[white girder]

mhm most enemies are,

[fresh zephyr]

Nah, Eliksni always rally lmao. Same with the Hive.

Especially the Hive lol

[hardy crest]

why doesnt ikora talk to her ghost?

[raw hazel]

Well with the Typhon Imperator still parked on Neomuna, and the Shadow Legion still loyal to the Witness, In-universe I imagine they're still just futzing up the place on Neptune. Don't think we have had any major recent developments on them.

[trim grotto]

She does, now.

[fresh zephyr]

I feel like Oryx is still the worst threat we've faced (pre Witness and the Black Fleet)

If it weren't for Mara taking out his fleet, we'd have been so cooked.

[trim grotto]

Not enough? Elsie took down Clovis Bray's AI and shut down the DSC.

[raw hazel]

IIRC it was because Ikora was messing around thanatonautics, though recently Ikora and Ophiuchus have started talking again.

[fresh zephyr]

Planets was so cool to me. Savathûn's prophecy of moving worlds came true

[rich veldt]

willa and alton are almost definatley long dead by this point, theres no more living brays then the ones listed

[white girder]

they are dead?

[fresh zephyr]

I read this as William and Afton

[raw hazel]

Apparently there's Bray descendents living in the Last City. Ana makes mention of visiting them at some point.

[white girder]

the only thing i wanna get is more braytech/futuristic stuff similar to it

[fresh zephyr]

I loved the new Article lore about the people wanting a new Consensus. I'm a fangirl for political lore

[rich veldt]

its been hundreds of years since the collapse, even if they survived they wont live that long, hence no brays of the time to right their wrongs

[fresh zephyr]

Splicer was heaven for me

[trim grotto]

Well they were alive in the Golden Age
Centuries ago

Elsie survived because she's an Exo and Ana didn't survive, she was revived

[hardy crest]

did the brays create exos?

[raw hazel]

Clovis II did, aye.

[rich veldt]

even so, not like they have the same connections to the golden age brays

[hardy crest]

why didnt he become one then

[white girder]

what secret braytech structures are there?

[rich veldt]

he died from der iirc

[raw hazel]

He did. Banshee is Exo Clovis.

[white girder]

he did, he torn himself apart.

[fresh zephyr]

Is Clovis tied to the Witness? Or is he still sulking in the Crypt?

[hardy crest]

o h

[raw hazel]

Or wait no I have my Clovi mixed up

[rich veldt]

no banshee is clovis I, II died

[white girder]

yeah im pretty sure he did some experiments on the darkness

[raw hazel]

Banshee is Clovis the First

[white girder]

what secret braytech structures are there?

[hardy crest]

man it always fucked with me when banshee said 'have you seen cayde around' in the ace of spades quest

[raw hazel]

Clovis the Second, Ana and Elsie's father, was turned into an Exo but he tore himself apart.

[rich veldt]

they wouldnt be secret if we knew them

[rich veldt]

pretty sure it happened infront of ana aswell

[fresh zephyr]

Deep Stone

[raw hazel]

He's still sulking on Europa. I don't think we've heard from him since Seraph.

[white girder]

well pls give me a full list of braytech structures. also, what is eternity in exoscience?

[raw hazel]

And Clovis I got her a lollipop for her troubles. So thoughtful.

[hardy crest]

i dont get exos
they live forever, have human wants and needs
do they have organs? whats the point of being in a robot if you still need organs and stuff
like cayde died from a bodyshot right coudnt you just repair exos

[rich veldt]

exos have the human needs to avoid DER. and cayde was a different case

[raw hazel]

Exo's were born from Clovis I's desire to cheat death/leave a lasting legacy that would forever guide humanity's future (because he's insanely egotistical). As Stasis points out, Exo's are still people, and those behaviors and urges so they don't crazy. Without them, you would get what happened to Clovis II.

[rich veldt]

normal exos are immortal in the sense of you can keep putting their mind scan into different bodies, exo guardians dont have that privelage

[hardy crest]

ohhhhh

[rich veldt]

exo guardians have their ghost and thats it

[hardy crest]

i thought you were referring to stasis as in the subclass but then i realised

[pure tree]

can guardians selectively choose who to kill with their abilities, even AOE ones?

[raw hazel]

I mean for all we know, there's a living Stasis crystal behind that account..

[pure tree]

like if there was a group of human hostages among a bunch of shadow legion soldiers, can a guardian nova bomb and only kill the shadow legion or would everyone die from it?

[rich veldt]

no

shaxx once had to decapitate felwinter to stop him popping a nova bomb during a meeting or he woulda flattened a village

[raw hazel]

I mean, hypothetically they might be able to but I imagine that would take a lot of concentration and fine control you likely wouldn't be afforded in such a situation.

[hardy crest]

also in battle, woudnt guardians be easy to kill as you can just squish the ghosts like we do in witch queen

[rich veldt]

theres lots that could kill ghosts, but the enemies need access to them first

[raw hazel]

We squash them so easily because we're paracausal. The easier way to kill a paracausal being, is using paracausal energy (or lots of firepower, or for them to be in a Darkness zone).

[rich veldt]

fallen shock stick thingies be like

[raw hazel]

Yeah that's the whole Darkness zone explanation.

[rich veldt]

no them things be dangerous and darkness zones are an annoying thing

[raw hazel]

Earlier on in Destiny's lore how exactly durable a Ghost is was kind of all over the place.

[hardy crest]

ohhhhh

[raw hazel]

Darkness zones are an actual thing in lore, which IIRC are basically areas of low probability of survival/where they are more vulnerable to damage?

[rich veldt]

they are very confusing things so lets just leave them for the moment

[raw hazel]

I would need to find it again. Otherwise, the two surefire ways are: 1) By paracausal means or 2) BIG BOOM.

I mean they asked.

[rich veldt]

#📚lore-discussion message btw

[candid inlet]

dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
How to kill a Guardian:

1. Destroy their Ghost
   Without their Ghost, Guardians are unable to use their Light-based abilities along with other advantages that their Ghost brings which means they can't be revived. Ghosts however, can be difficult targets to hit and depending on their connection to the Traveler will require specific weaponry to destroy. If a Ghost has a stable connection to the Traveler, then either overwhelming force or a paracausal weapon is needed in order to destroy them. Although, certain conditions can be met where the Ghost will be made more vulnerable. Such cases could be if the Ghost is in an area heavily afflicted by Darkness or during the Red War when the Traveler was caged.
2. Drain the Guardian's Light
   As stated, Guardians wield Light-based abilities so draining them of their Light would prevent them from accessing them which does include resurrection. Thorn and the Sword of Crota were both known Light-draining weapons which means that a Guardian killed by them can't be revived even with a living Ghost. It is also possible to create devices capable of cutting off a Guardian's connection to the Light as well such as the Traveler cage the Red Legion used during the Red War, and later, the Light-suppression devices made by the psion conclave who sought to kill Zavala twice, but failed. These Light-suppression devices were smaller versions of the Traveler cage that were shot onto Ghosts in order to sever the Light from individual Guardians. It is noted that a Guardian drained of their Light can still benefit from their Ghost if it isn't destroyed and can even later regain their connection to the Light.
3. Ontological Weapons
   These weapons attack one's own existence and can bypass ressurrection entirely. These include VoG Gorgons, the Deathsong, and potentially Techeun magic (or Techeun magic enhanced by Taken power). Though Ontological weapons are rare and difficult to come by.
4. Make sure the Guardian's body is unreachable to the Ghost.

Command triggered by realgamer2056. Message link from · Jun 18, 2023, 12:02 AM

[raw hazel]

I'm not one to leave something unsufficiently answered if I don't want to.

Oh yeah those are extra ways.

[rich veldt]

slow hally

[raw hazel]

NEVER

https://tenor.com/view/anime-hibike-euphonium-yuko-yoshikawa-angry-gif-16489011

I WILL ANSWER EVERYTHING I CAN

[rich veldt]

those are the main ways to kill a ghost fym extra

[raw hazel]

Extra

Insofar those two, as I've said, are the two more common/obvious ways.

Like, draining a Lightbearer's Light is a bit more of an involved process than carpet bombing an area.

As Petra can attest to.

[rich veldt]

me when thorn

[raw hazel]

>mfw I have to find a Devourer round or find/make such a Weapon of Sorrow to begin which in-universe is a pretty involved process.

And even that still slots under the umbrella of using paracausal power.

[rich veldt]

its not about what you know but who you know

[raw hazel]

Bit of both, tbh

[rich veldt]

all someone needs to do is rob the guardians vault

[raw hazel]

honestly you're not wrong

(hand injury making typing difficult)

But like honestly, given how the average Guardian probably has at least a few paracausal weapons just collecting dust in their vault...

[rich veldt]

lets see in the vault you will probably find weapons of sorrow, crimson/red death, potentially izi, ez ghost killing hoarde

[rich veldt]

im talking the guardians vault (say you were some rogue or sonething)

[raw hazel]

(Not to mention the stuff that's inside the Tower/Cryptarch vaults)

[rich veldt]

hally we dont talk about the cryptarchy vaults smh

[raw hazel]

But what I wanna?

[rich veldt]

[raw hazel]

The Hidden can trust me with a Tablet of Ruin

( :

And unfettered access to Oryx's body

[rich veldt]

stop exposing the wmds we have

[raw hazel]

( :

omg

TIL how you make that emoji

What were we talking about again?

How neat and awesome the Traveler is???

[rich veldt]

what happened to the guy asking how to kill ghosts lmao

[raw hazel]

I think I scared them off

I'm glad to know I still have it in me after all these years

Man

It's been almost 10 years

Not lore related but like, crazy to think about, right? How long it's been. How much has changed and not changed, where I've been in regards to my own life here and there..

[raw hazel]

Well, that’s enough derailing for now. If anyone has any further questions you can forward all of them to my assistant, Stasis.

[white girder]

GUYS PREDICT 2025 EXPANSION

[raw hazel]

We fight the Witness’ lesser known ally, the Suspect

[hearty dew]

get ready for among us collab wave 2

[sharp osprey]

i dont think there will be a new expansion quite that soon, but probably a new set of 3 episodes

[trim grotto]

I was busy playing Halo
Did I miss any fun discussions

[raw hazel]

We talked about how to kill a Ghost

And how funky Darkness zoned are

Also the Hidden should trust me with a Tablet of Ruin but otherwise not much else

[past glen]

Will this result in a hung jury

Even though its a likely suspect

[trim grotto]

Ah like how we've got two different explanations
Which aren't mutually exclusive to be fair

[raw hazel]

There’s two?

[trim grotto]

Ye

First is the FWC theory about timeline blueprints and particularly dangerous environments
Second is that some areas were literally scarred by Darkness

I'll source you shortly

[raw hazel]

Riiiight

I remember now

I think it was the FWC theory I was talking about

[little gorge]

no, the royal executioner will come and kill the witness with a falling guillotine

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-lie-detector-cap-you-are-lying-stop-lying-gif-12198388917433403789

[fast tapir]

lmao

[chrome fog]

Grumpy’s (Clovis AI) stuck on Europa whilst Banshee gets to live that reset he wanted at the end of his natural life, Ana was able to rebuild Rasputin and then unfortunately see his demise, House Salvation and Taniks already fucked around with the DSC but we secured the area for the most part.

About all of Clovis’ legacy, both good and bad, has been secured by us for our own purposes

[remote sky]

Oh yeah, do tell about that silver wing tree

[remote sky]

• just how many enemies (uldren, variks, etc) have become our allies

[shadow warren]

Formerly uldren now crow, caiatl and her legion, a single hive ghost, mithrax and house light (though I don’t think they were ever an outright enemy)

[rich veldt]

jokes on you i had gone doing other stuff, and i aint no assisstant unless its asher

[shadow warren]

They might have been an enemy early on but in y1 Mithrax was in an exotic quest as a fallen captain fighting a hive knight

You could kill him there along with the knight and finish the quest

But if you killed the knight instead mithrax would basically thank you and give you the thing the quest wanted

[rich veldt]

is it realllly uldren tho?

[shadow warren]

I dont think variks was ever our enemy either

No you know what i mean

In d1 variks worked with the guardians and awoken

[rich veldt]

do you know if the guy who asked does?

[shadow warren]

I assumed

[rich veldt]

variks works for the side that pays/wont kill him

[shadow warren]

Riven would be a stretch wouldn’t she

She agreed to help us but she wasn’t thrilled about it

[chrome fog]

We did get her some last words with her mate

And saved her eggs

[shadow warren]

True

Chances are we’ll ally with at least one of her offspring

[rich veldt]

i wouldnt say allying with riven, just fulfilling a bargain

the wish technically already existed, just not executed, and for her to execute it she made us do a job

[empty fern]

Wait

Did Sundance change shells between d1 and 2?

[ember storm]

he was wanted by both vanguard and awoken for the prison breakout that ended in Cayde’s death

the only reason he’s not experiencing capital punishment is his foothold on Europa

after that Mara gets to decide what to do with him

[ember storm]

none of the vanguard had unique ghost models in D1

it was this weird chunky stock model

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/destinypedia/images/2/21/HallOfGuardians_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140915220322

[empty fern]

Pain

Ikora with default, cayde with the 4 spikes, and Zavala with the massive forhead

[hollow hinge]

One thing I'm genuinely praying for in the campaign

Is for the witness to have a dialogue with our guardian

If not the only, then at the very least we're the first being in EXISTENCE to master light and dark, let alone Prismatic so I really want to see the inquisitive side of the witness

Could be something along the lines of "why you? What makes you so special to master both light and dark" or whatever

[empty fern]

Basically

Jelly witness

[chrome fog]

Jelly witness would be good witness on its deathbed

[gentle geyser]

“It’s my Destiny 2”

[hollow hinge]

Dude this but deadass unironically would be so funny

[empty fern]

You just KNOW someone’s gonna cringe so hard at that

But yea, we don’t know what’s going to happen in final shape, can’t wait (I will enjoy it)

[chrome fog]

There was a discussion on that very quote and we put in our two cents of how epic it would actually be

[gentle geyser]

Personally

I think the campaign is gonna cliffhanger on the witness saying the final shape is coming like it does in the trailer, then the raid is going to be actually stopping the final shape, with the mission after being essentially stopping it but for people who can’t play the raid

But then again we just don’t know yet whats after the raid

[empty fern]

Personally

[hollow hinge]

real

[little gorge]

Personally i think bungie lied to us and the final shape isn't real, destiny is shutting down on June 4 2024

[empty fern]

Real

[exotic cloak]

Damn

[empty fern]

Final shape is the next age of triumph

[gentle geyser]

The final shape is actually just a new battlepass

[rich veldt]

i mean, prismatic is essentially what guardians can already do with a special grenade they could probably do with enough training, and in terms of being a master of light and dark, imo a bit too high praise. can you truly master something in 10yrs, 3.5yrs and barely 1 yr?

[gentle geyser]

We aren’t mastering the elements in the sense you are assuming

We are gaining the ability to wield them together in perfect harmony directly from the traveler itself

[rich veldt]

wielding them together is already a lore thing, just it probably werent the easiest thing to or bungie didnt want to add it untill now

[gentle geyser]

No, its not

The difference here is is we aren’t hot swapping to a different lightsubclass, we are using them in perfect unison

[rich veldt]

there is very much proof of atleast wielding all the light classes at once, im not sure if we had anything of darkness mixed

[rich veldt]

i raise you light powered osiris

[gentle geyser]

That immediately makes prismatic a big deal with that simple distinction

Prismatic is a big deal lore wise

[rich veldt]

it is still a concept that could have been possible before, im just not sure if we know anyone strong enough to have done it

[gentle geyser]

Your leaving out the major thing of darkness

Like it is a big deal

Especially considering that it’s happening, while the main villain of the series is essentially trying to combine light and dark to enact the final shape

[rich veldt]

im not leaving out the darkness, im simply saying its a theortical concept that could already have been done but i dont know if it has

[gentle geyser]

Except, thats exactly leaving out darkness

Darkness is the point of prismatic

Like even in gameplay we know that its going to automatically force the starting subclasses to be light and dark equally

[smoky rose]

Being light/dark combined has been a thing literally since bungie cooked up the idea of guardians using the dark

[rich veldt]

im not leaving it out, im saying idk if we know of using both light and dark had already been done yet, how many times do i have to say this

[smoky rose]

Anyways deadass prime time Osiris could solo prismatic guardians no question asked, even without the darkness

That man was insane

[rich veldt]

we know that both light and dark can be wielded at selerate times, and we know if strong enough someone could atleast wield all the light subclasses at once, what im saying here is i do not know if we know of anyone whos done a prismatic esque thing with all of it yet

[raw hazel]

I mean, really the closest thing we have is being able to use Deepsight with like say, when you're using a Light subclass.

Nothing on the level of what Prismatic is.

[rich veldt]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/immolant-pt-2?highlight=sagira

finally found the dntry of osiris kicking ass, towards the bottom of the page

if osiris hadnt lost the light i couls see him having already mastered some form of prismatic with atleast strand

[raw hazel]

Possibly. If anyone could, I think he would be the one.

But also, by the metric that Prismatic, at least from what little marketing we have, is presented as something that's been given to use by the Traveler- I would would hazard to say, at least as far as a bit of speculation, it could be as a result of the unique case of the Darkness brought in by the Witness, mixing with the Light that's present within the Traveler.

Slash possibly reintroducing Darkness into the Traveler, as many speculate the Veil and Traveler used to be one entity.

[rich veldt]

even if prismatic itself is from the activites in the pale heart, i still see osiris being able to have found a way to use both at once, being osiris

[raw hazel]

Hypothetically, sure.

But we'll never be able to know for sure.

[rich veldt]

all hyporhetical anyways rip bozo ghost killed off screen goofy ass

does make you wonder how the story woulda gone if sagira hadnt died

[jagged badge]

I don’t really get why people complain about that tbh

It was all off screen because it was meant to be mysterious

Because we weren’t meant to be sure of what happened to Osiris

[rich veldt]

i aint complaining im calling it out

[vast rampart]

Osiris is savathun

Or I dum

[jagged badge]

Savathûn was pretending to be Osiris back during Beyond Light

[rich veldt]

osiris got possed by savu for most of y4 (the year of beyond light and its seasons), he was then in a comatossed state from then untill the end of plunder and now hes back out and about just lightless

[ember storm]

she was puppeteering his body like a marionette as he was forced to watch it happen

also her presence leaked hive gunk from his eyes so she might’ve been physically inside of him and wearing him

the part where she revealed herself in lost and “grew” was just illusion magic though

[green ether]

Nah id win

[solar pawn]

nah

all the gardians need is all the grenades in the universe instant win

[green ether]

[solar pawn]

yippee

[exotic cloak]

Nah bro

You cant

The script wont let you

[solar pawn]

this is what makes me happy :3

[robust quail]

mfw i finally read the lore behind luna’s howl and not forgotten and the fact that she has a grave in the game

[iron mortar]

Dog man best fren

Why were the fallen the only race to follow the traveler to earth that wasn't allied with the darkness

The traveler must have touched millions of planets

(somehow not the cabel)

None of the other races it touched tried to follow it as well

[dim minnow]

Eliksni were probably the only ones who survived long enough to get here

[jagged badge]

We don’t know of any other race touched by the Traveler that survived yeah

[dim minnow]

they would have been wiped out by the Black Fleet (and possibly the Hive) had the Traveler not fled and led them away

[iron mortar]

Is it safe to guess that the creatures that killed ada-1 family in the collapse were tormentors

The black armory lore just refers to them as darkness creatures

With our current knowledge it must have been them right

[untold osprey]

Hey lore chat. I know the answer and all but I wanna know. Would it be possible for a person to wish for all ahamkara to be brought back to life through a ahamkara bone? Like it’s really stupid but it just popped into my mind

[dim minnow]

most likely answer at this point is Hive

given that we got a similar description in regards to Mithrax's mother fighting Hive on the Moon

[dim minnow]

I'm not really certain what the extent of an Ahamkara's power is

[iron mortar]

I doubt it, because it probably should have happened already because I am sure one person thought about it

[dim minnow]

but assuming that this is something they are capable of, the consequences woulf be catastrophic

that that's not even accounting for the fact that bringing Ahamkara back in of itself is a bad idea

I can at least see good potential in Taranis and Riven's offspring since Taranis was actually a good one

[dim minnow]

if someone did, then maybe it manifested in a way where the Ahamkara technically granted the wish but didn't at the same time

[untold osprey]

Yeah but when taranis used his own powers for himself to keep the eggs safe. It killed him

[trim grotto]

Not Jim!

[untold osprey]

So I’m like imagining a whole planet exploding

[dim minnow]

kind of like how Himura Shinobu wished to bring back her mother, but it was just the Ahamkara disguised as her

[dim minnow]

Taranis disappeared because he granted his own wish

Ahamkara feed on the diffrence between what is granted and what is desired

[iron mortar]

I am shocked how ahamkara were killed off so easily by guardians with how powerful they can be, unless riven being taken is what awakened her true potential

[dim minnow]

when they grant their own wish, the difference is gone so the Ahamkara ceases to be

[dim minnow]

Ahamkara weren't pushovers

[trim grotto]

-Wishes, while seemingly less potent and more difficult to initiate, are still able to be granted from Ahamkara bones.
I imagine this, combined with the apparent fact that Ahamkara are quite fine with death, and even want to die, leads me to believe that they either could not be revived with a bone, or would refuse to be.

[trim grotto]

I don't know if I'd call it easy

[dim minnow]

and the reason why Riven was able to grant wishes effectively in this season was because we summoned her spirit back instead of trying to use her bones

well, we used her tooth to summon her, but we didn't use it to make a wish

[untold osprey]

I mean if we can force rivens ghost to be back and have intelligence from pre taken riven there’s no limit to what bungie could do. I just like how theoretically this is something that can happen which is why I asked

And my brain has not been able to not think of the crazy shit that can happen

[dim minnow]

well Riven is gone for good now, she has no power left

[iron mortar]

Like to hunt to extinction is kinda crazy because guardians in lore weren't so successful with other things, for example taking the moon from crota

[dim minnow]

and we do not want to bring back ANY other previous Ahamkara

except Taranis, but he's gone for good

[untold osprey]

Didn’t know kinda didn’t play past week two due to burnout

[trim grotto]

We weren't prepared for the Hive. The Ahamkara we had guidance and equipment from the Awoken of the Reef.

[dim minnow]

our first battle against them (Burning Lake) was a close victory and we still thought taking the Moon was a good idea

[trim grotto]

Barely eeked out victory, Shaxx claimed.

[iron mortar]

When I heard that I was like that is so stupid 😧, one like they couldnt even take back earth to think they could take back the entire moon in crazy

[dim minnow]

Shaxx must have been yelling very loud after the Great Disaster out of rage

[untold osprey]

also didnt shaxx just wish to fight a dragon and the ahamkara shape shifted into a classic depiction of a dragon?

[dim minnow]

universe's loudest "I TOLD YOU SO"

[dim minnow]

that was Saladin

I think Efrideet was with him too

or it was someone else

[untold osprey]

Ahhh, that means Byf made a script error on his latest video

[trim grotto]

Also consider that Ahamkara, while not solitary, rarely hunted in groups. Individual hunts for singular Ahamkara could be attempted, rather than a clash of armies.

[untold osprey]

Cause he said shaxx

[dim minnow]

Ahamkara were competitive

made it difficult to organize

[untold osprey]

Anyways thank you for indulging in my random thoughts Dova. Until next time lore chat. Back to fashion I go~

[dim minnow]

more accurately, their way of feeding was competitive

[ember storm]

that was full out war against an enemy that directly countered us

ahamkara hunts were like the strikes and raids of today

small coordinated team, specific objective and location

[dim minnow]

hey, leave a buzz shelf gif to whoever posts Superblack next for me will ya

[untold osprey]

I will!

[ember storm]

also ahamkara don’t really have much in the way of fighting capability

the most they could do was like, make themselves uglier before they’re just shot

[trim grotto]

I mean

[iron mortar]

Something I noticed and was curious about is why are the fallen in the lore in the past so formidable, like in the lore they say the fallen almost ended humanity multiple times, but in game we have 3-man teams taking out armies of fallen in dwellings

[dim minnow]

not really

[ember storm]

that’s just the nature of times changing

[dim minnow]

they are pretty much reality warpers

[ember storm]

the dark age was the worst of the worst

[ember storm]

but how often was that used against their enemies in direct combat

[dim minnow]

it was more for deciet

it was how the first Hunter Vanguard, Tallulah Fairwind, was killed

[trim grotto]

There's a few factors in play here, not the least of which is gameplay power, uh... what's it called again...

[dim minnow]

an Ahamkara goaded her into playing poker with it

she lost, and was killed for it

[ember storm]

was that even during the hunt

or was that just a thing

[dim minnow]

yes

[trim grotto]

I don't think it was actually during the Hunt

[dim minnow]

well cpuld be

[ember storm]

nothing in the tab suggests it

[shadow crypt]

How did Calus come to power again after being exiled

[dim minnow]

a lot of the Great Hunt lore tabs were in it

[ember storm]

the Hunter vanguard dying would be one of many big reasons for the hunt