📚lore-discussion

[sharp osprey]

and i know savathun wished to curse the dreaming city as an alternative to tribute, right?

[fresh zephyr]

pretty sure riven and oryx had a whole deal/monkeys paw going on with her being taken

[rich veldt]

not as an alternative, an attempt of infinite tribute

[sharp osprey]

right

[rich veldt]

but a worms hunger is too strong, that even seemingly infinite tribute is not enough, causing her to get the light

[sharp osprey]

did oryx corrupt mara's throne world as an act of war?

or revenge?

[next bobcat]

Idk

I mean

[jagged badge]

Correct

[next bobcat]

Bit late Eris

[jagged badge]

Ah

It is an April Fool’s thing

A late April Fool’s thing obviously

[next bobcat]

It’s freaking may

[sharp osprey]

may's fools idk

[jagged badge]

Apparently they needed more time to fully realise their vision lmao

I guess I’m not sourcing any lore today

[next bobcat]

???

I’m done with Ishtar not working I’m calling Mael

@trim grotto Ishtar isn’t working and I don’t know what to do

Please help me

[jagged badge]

What’s up?

[next bobcat]

Weird Ishtar shit

[jagged badge]

I know that’s happening, I was literally just talking about it

[next bobcat]

What did you mean what’s up then?

[jagged badge]

What do you need Mael for?

[next bobcat]

Mael would know how to fix it

…probably

[jagged badge]

Mael is not part of the Ishtar team

[next bobcat]

[jagged badge]

As I said, it’s a late April Fools thing so unfortunately, I guess we gotta wait this out

Unless I’m missing something

[next bobcat]

Well then what code thingies can I use

I tried things like msund12 but nothing

Any ideas?

[jagged badge]

Interestingly, it was showing me an entry my tab was already on

So perhaps there is some way to access the rest of the site even in this state

[next bobcat]

Open the site new - what does it do ?

I was on it, it went to that code thing when I refreshed.

[jagged badge]

Opens as this

My existing tab on the other hand shows the last entry I was looking at before

[next bobcat]

Show entry !

That could work

If you type “help”, it shows you commands

[solid sequoia]

What are people's thoughts on Humanity and The Precursors being related somehow?

[jagged badge]

Uhh

There’s a considerable gap there

The Precursors became the Witness eons and eons and eons before the Earth had even formed

[trim grotto]

I... can't say I see any connection.

Unless the Hive timeline is retconned (possible), then they're older than Earth itself - billions of years old. The Witness, and the Precursors that made it, are leagues older still.

[jagged badge]

I guess you can say the Precursors look the most human like out of the other species we’ve seen but that’s pretty much just a common thing in sci-fi

[blazing wasp]

How are they related exactly

[empty fern]

Bipeds

[blazing wasp]

Well, presumably bipedals to the extent humans are is extremely rare as far as we know

[ember storm]

featherless biped

[clear knot]

Riven's dead, right? Like, we killed her? Well, as of apophasis (wishing all the best subquest) she can still make wishes ("Wish it true. Ask me to rewrite this failure and I will make it so.")

So... if she's already dead, why can't she grant her own wishes? What's it going to do, kill her?

[empty fern]

She’s fully dead now, can’t wish anything in that state

[clear knot]

So why does she say she can grant wishes?

She can still do the 15th wish, so why not wish to make failure nonexistent?

[ember storm]

that’s not how it works

they can’t change the universe on a grand mass

you can’t just wish away the concept of failure

[nimble hinge]

where is the Tower located? iirc i heard something about South America and maybe Peru but im not sure

well the Last City for that matter

[clear knot]

I meant for the apophasis mission

Just make the egg come back

[ember storm]

SA explicitly, exact location is kinda loose

but it’s somewhere near the Andes

because yknow, mountains

[ember storm]

I mean this season we’re shown that a dead ahamkara still doesn’t last forever

if just granting their own wish kills them, I imagine doing it again would just erase them entirely

[clear knot]

Oooh, okay

[ember storm]

also the ahamkara eggs were hidden outside of the natural universe by another ahamkara’s wish

and only appeared one at a time

and the vex and scorn were continually raiding the area anyway

what’s the point if you can just clear the area while also securing eggs

[clear knot]

But when the one at the end of apophasis is taken by the vex from the end of the coil, why couldn't we, the guardians, just wish for the egg to be brought back from the vex hold?

Then we could transmat it

[ember storm]

again, why do that if the vex are still alive to try again

killing them so it can’t happen again is just a better thing

[clear knot]

Okay

[ember storm]

and wishing to riven is literally the last thing we want to do

[clear knot]

But she's dead, what can she do?

Besides grant wishes

[eager trout]

Give a downside to said wishes

[ember storm]

literally everything involved with ahamkara fucks you over

riven especially is not very cooperative

[clear knot]

She's a living monkey paw?

[ember storm]

we only get to “win” here because we’re forced to work with her, and now we’ll have to deal with an entire generation of her offspring

[ember storm]

every ahamkara is

[empty fern]

Even taranis?

[ember storm]

he granted his own wish and literally died

that’s monkeys paw

[empty fern]

Fair

[ember storm]

they feed off of masking others’ desires into material reality, so they obviously will never want a situation to be properly resolved

[clear knot]

I thought self granting killed them because it took from their life force?

[ember storm]

they either screw it over so you’re inclined to keep wishing, or just fuck you over because they feel like it

[ember storm]

yes

they can’t feed on themselves so they just die

keep in mind it’s not some regretful scenario they wanted to change, like the nine

[clear knot]

So it's not exactly a monkeys paw to themselves, just to much strain. A monkeys paw is saying you want a sandwich and instead getting a sand witch

[ember storm]

there was an ahamkara who just hypnotized an entire group of awoken and made them dance off a cliff to their deaths

[ember storm]

no that’s literally it

the self destruction only applies to themselves

they inherently try to screw you over if you want a wish granted

there’s never a net positive with them

[clear knot]

I mean for self wishing. They aren't monkey paw-ing themselves. They shouldn't want to.

They don't die to monkey paw

They die to strain, right?

[ember storm]

it’s an indirect monkeys paw in the metaphorical sense

like, that’s the point of bungie writing it

[clear knot]

Okay

[ember storm]

every ahamkara wish has a caveat

whether to themselves or others, it’s never ending well

[indigo ermine]

can someone explain the gardener and winnower to me please?

[eager trout]

What if we beat the Witness by using the Darkness to access the individual minds that compose it and find those who aren't there willingly and incite them to rebel against the collective?

[gentle geyser]

Im pretty certain thats just not possible

Considering that we know the raid is where we fight the witness, at least one of the encounters we will split the collective consciousness

[analog torrent]

Ishtar is usable but mildly inconvenient

[empty fern]

Nah watch it just be, banishing it or something

[empty fern]

Rare Marcus sparrow post

[ember storm]

they’re metaphorical explanations of light and darkness

[jagged badge]

So much work just for a bit lmao

[ember storm]

the gardener cultivates and encourages life

the winnower cuts and culls it

[analog torrent]

the worst part is being unable to create ishtar links properly

[ember storm]

oh I just thought of a neat April fools idea

next year we should replace every instance of Light and Darkness on Ishtar with Lightness and Dark

[thorn plover]

guys

wat fucking subclass does lord shaxx uses

cuz i never saw his ass fighting

[empty fern]

He uses

All of them
(But probably arc usually)

[thorn plover]

stasis?

[empty fern]

Probably not, not that I know of or would seem like he would

[ember storm]

he doesn’t care about stigma

his first reaction to seeing stasis was gawking at a new type of grenade

[dull raft]

Oh yeah, the time he shook the tower upon shouting "THEY ARE THROWING NEW GRENADES!"

[chrome fog]

Very belated April Fools!

[chrome fog]

type in "help

[eager trout]

What can a Vex do?

[jagged badge]

A funny little dance

Watch this

[gentle geyser]

Canon

[eager trout]

What capabilities does their robotic shell have?

Apart from a gun

[exotic cloak]

Find ways to be annoying as fuck

When you thought they weren't enough annoying they became taken and decided to create overload hogoblin

[gentle geyser]

Mins when they teleport right when you fire and no other times

[eager trout]

How do they use Light?

[gentle geyser]

They don’t

[exotic cloak]

They use darkness

[jagged badge]

[exotic cloak]

Goddamn Stasis

[raw hazel]

(Only the Sol Divisive use Darkness)

[jagged badge]

Vex don’t use Stasis

[exotic cloak]

I mean I was talking about the overload

But yeah they don't

[eager trout]

Don't some Vex shoot something that looks like Void?

[jagged badge]

Void isn’t inherently Light

Void Light is Light

Void is not

[gentle geyser]

The vex lose battles because they don’t have access to space magic

[eager trout]

And Hobgoblins shoot Solar

[jagged badge]

Same deal

It’s how all our enemies use the elements while not being Lightbearers

[gentle geyser]

Its an energy type, not necessarily light

[jagged badge]

The elements aren’t Light

[eager trout]

So they use the stuff but not with Light

[jagged badge]

We wield Light in the form of these elements

[gentle geyser]

All enemies do

[raw hazel]

Void, Arc, Solar, etc are aspects of the universe that are natural to the world of Destiny. When we use these elements, it's basically filtering Light/Darkness into those elements.

[eager trout]

In case of the Vex, could they be shooting "simulated" versions of the elements? Since they look pixelated.

[gentle geyser]

No

[jagged badge]

That’s not how simulations work

[gentle geyser]

The light subclasses are energy types, those energy types can be used through weapons

[eager trout]

Could the Vex have found a way to give their weapons the effects of other things without actually using those things?

[gentle geyser]

Your making it much more complicated than it is

[exotic cloak]

They are just

Machines

The complex shit is elsewhere their weapons are just weapons

[eager trout]

How many things can a Goblin do? (In anything, not just combat)

[raw hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-goblin-dancing-vex-dancing-goblin-gif-17984806

Do a nice jig

[jagged badge]

Did you have the same idea independently?

[raw hazel]

If you're asking for like- Specific capabilities then honestly don't know much off the top of my head

I would look it up but the Ishtar april fools thing is just, too much brainpower to deal with

[jagged badge]

Fr

[raw hazel]

yeah like it's cool and technically impressive

but i'm hoping it changes back soon

[calm slate]

Is this a combat frame

[raw hazel]

yes

[eager trout]

I know they can teleport (I think), they can shoot, and they have that melee where they turn their hand into a small cannon (which is basically just another way of shooting), unless it works more like a repulsor.

What's a cool, versatile ability the Vex could have?

[raw hazel]

Plant flowers

[jagged badge]

I’m really not sure what you mean by the question tbh

[eager trout]

Something the Vex can do that would be useful in a lot of situations outside of combat.

Like producing tools or stuff

[raw hazel]

[eager trout]

According to Calus (I think), the ones we've faced are just gardeners and construction workers

So they must have some sort of tools

I doubt you can build things with a gun

[chrome fog]

Vex use a Molotov cocktail to set stuff on fire. Lightbearers conjure fire out of thin air.

Same principle

[jagged badge]

I don’t believe that’s a reliable statement

There’s been nothing to genuinely suggest there are “combat Vex” we haven’t met

Even when we’re introduced to the Wyverns they aren’t presented as such

In fact there’s not really much lore on them anyway tbh

[raw hazel]

Did we ever get any lore on them this year?

If not then that is something that's going to continue to irk me

[eager trout]

I feel like the Vex probably have some sort of built-in multipurpose ray that can do different things that aren't necessarily used for combat.

[raw hazel]

If you so feel

[chrome fog]

Yes, that is effectively what Eris has been saying

[gentle geyser]

The vex do whatever is required of them

[eager trout]

Wait, she what-

Wait

Which Eris

[chrome fog]

In this channel

[eager trout]

In-universe, or- oh

[chrome fog]

As in, read what she has been saying

Because

[jagged badge]

Vex do construction shit and they do shooting

Which is why all their guns are named like tools

[chrome fog]

Guess what? The only lore that assigns “combat” and “builder” roles to the Vex is from an unreliable information source; Calus is the same guy who doesn’t know what the fuck Chicken Nuggets and Root Beer is

[jagged badge]

Hammers and Lances and such

[eager trout]

I'm pretty sure he's interacted more with the Vex than with Earth food

[gentle geyser]

Hes still unreliable

[raw hazel]

And most everything out of his mouth is still exaggerations

[eager trout]

So what you're saying is that Vex weapons can already do whatever they want

[raw hazel]

We never said that

[gentle geyser]

Vex do whatever is needed of them

[outer dragon]

the new lore on Luna's is the best

[gentle geyser]

Good ending

[eager trout]

I really don't see how Eris' comments relate to what I said about a multipurpose ray

[chrome fog]

Again. This is the idiot who doesn’t know what the fuck Chicken Nuggets and Root Beer is. He is prone to saying whatever the fuck he thinks is profound

[jagged badge]

It wasn’t really what I was saying tbh

[outer dragon]

Also the lore tab on the new Blast Furnace, to me, seems to imply BA tech somewhere in the cosmadrome

[jagged badge]

But it was a progression from what I was saying

[outer dragon]

Or am I reading that wrong?

[jagged badge]

I said how there are no “combat Vex” which progresses to the point that yes, the Vex are multipurpose

[chrome fog]

Man it’s like a jackhammer could be used to pulverize someone’s brains and provide it multiple purposes

[outer dragon]

The only source we have on the "combat vex" is an unreliable narrator writing fanfic

so I don't put much stock in it

[eager trout]

So...could a Vex gun be used to rearrange matter at a molecular level? (To create other materials and objects, not just destroy them)

[gentle geyser]

Who knows

Its a gun

If they could they would probably be doing it in battle

[outer dragon]

The main Vex guns are transmitters/recievers first that happen to have use cases as weapons

[eager trout]

Not if it's a slow process better used for building and other things that don't require quick actions. Plus, if it's a quick process, what's better to do with that than to rearrange your enemies into scattered atoms?

[gentle geyser]

Once again, your making this way too complicated

[raw hazel]

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to get at either

[gentle geyser]

The vex are multi purpose

Thats all

[eager trout]

Vex version of MIDA Multitool

(Lore MIDA Multitool, not gameplay)

[chrome fog]

It’s a just a gun

A gun that is also good for excavation

They would have no need for the other features to be built into the gun because they can already simulate reality

[eager trout]

I think what I want to know is if the Vex have a multipurpose device that can do virtually anything

[chrome fog]

[eager trout]

But what if they need to use something outside of a simulation?

[gentle geyser]

If they did they would have won already

[chrome fog]

They. They only think in simulations

Any action they take is dictated by the simulated best course of action

[eager trout]

And what if the best course of action requires doing something they can't do with their robotic shells' regular capabilities?

[raw hazel]

Then they figure out a way to do it?

[gentle geyser]

That wouldn’t be part of the simulated best course of action in the first place

If they need to do something they’ll just do it

[eager trout]

So what you mean is that they follow the simulated best course of action that is within their capabilities

[gentle geyser]

That’s literally how the concept of simulations work

[jagged badge]

There’s no point in their simulations for victory being unattainable dreams for them lmao

[eager trout]

So they don't improve themselves to handle situations better?

[jagged badge]

They don’t need to

[gentle geyser]

The only thing the vex lack is space magic

[jagged badge]

Well, aside from the fact they’ve struggled with Paracausality which they are slowly adjusting to

As we’ve seen this season

[gentle geyser]

Considering that the vex are the first episode we are probably gonna have some issues with the vex and the light

Vex are probably gonna make a play once we stop the final shape

[chrome fog]

Adding to this, all Vex are connected to the Vex Network, which itself is somewhat connected across various parts of existence, to the point that it is comparable to the Ascendent Plane

[exotic cloak]

What was Vexcalibur

That place was any specific place inside the Vex Network or just a random site?

[chrome fog]

Which again, means they are capable of simulating and then predicting the best course of action to work towards their goal of universal assimilation; that’s a major reason why Paracausality is so effective against them, as it has no preceding cause to the effect of using Light, you just have the effect whenever the user wills it

[eager trout]

Vex when the Guardian who died to a Hobgoblin manages to solo 3 Wyverns at the same time

[chrome fog]

Yeah

[raw hazel]

That happens, yes

[gentle geyser]

Thats just snipers being snipers

[chrome fog]

Using the molotov vs Solar Light example again, a Vex can simulate and track the materials used for a molotov cocktail and track it to when someone will use it against them; but with Light, the flame spontaneously appears with no apparent cause save for the Light

And they don’t know how to simulate the Light

[eager trout]

Vex when the Guardian solos the entire Vault of Glass strike then dies in the final boss by standing in Radiolarian fluid

[chrome fog]

Again, yeah

[raw hazel]

Yes, different things can kill us

Your point?

[eager trout]

Radiolarian fluid kills you if you stand on it for too long, so it won't make sense for the Vex that the Guardian who was smart and strong enough to defeat all their forces would be stupid enough to stay on the fluid long enough to die.

[raw hazel]

Human error is still a thing

Guardians can still make mistakes

[eager trout]

Except that if you can shoot at your enemies from afar there's no reason to get close to the fluid

And if you do stand on the fluid, you can fly or jump out of it

[raw hazel]

Okay

[chrome fog]

Point is: Guardians are fairly unpredictable within the simulation limits of the Vex

[raw hazel]

@outer dragon What was the lore you were talking about earlier?

[chrome fog]

Not gonna entertain this train of thought if it continues being contrarian for the sake of it

[eager trout]

Contrarian in what way-?

[chrome fog]

The blast furnace gun’s loretab having some sort of connection to the BA

[raw hazel]

Oooo

I haven’t given them a look yet as I’ve been grinding IB

[eager trout]

The what

[chrome fog]

Black Armory

[raw hazel]

I have been enjoying what few tabs on the brave weapons I’ve read so far

[chrome fog]

Gosh I need to grind Iron Banner and hope that chainmail shader drops

[eager trout]

I want Vex Mythoclast

[chrome fog]

Onslaught as well, I got stuck trying to finish this season’s story on all three characters

[chrome fog]

Grind completions across three characters

[eager trout]

On what-

And how?

[jagged badge]

Vault of Glass

Not sure why you’re saying this in this channel though

#✨destiny-discussion

[exotic cloak]

I guess is more a gameplay thing but

There's any actual explanation why exotics that are just regular enemies weaponry are exotics in the first place

Like

What's so unique about something I can literally take from their corpses any time

[jagged badge]

Not all our human exotics are unique weapons either

Look at something like SUROS Regime

Literally just a mass produced SUROS auto really

[chrome fog]

You do realize that if you go into collections, there’s an option to view where items drop from?

[jagged badge]

There is?

[chrome fog]

On controller it’s like left trigger I believe, or right

[eager trout]

There is??!?!?

[chrome fog]

Opposite trigger to the one that compares stats of equipment to what’s currently equipped

[exotic cloak]

Ah yeah that one

[jagged badge]

Hold on you gotta show a clip of that in #🏆destiny-media

[chrome fog]

Uhhh it’ll be a minute because I have a video thing to record for a family member and my little brother’s hogging the Xbox; probably can hop on the steam version since I think it only boots me once I land at a destination

Also if my laptop will cooperate

I am actively hoping my laptop does not explore rn

[raw hazel]

Brb hexing your laptop

[chrome fog]

Nah it’s been cursed as the little thing that might

[ember storm]

hello

[chrome fog]

@ember storm you know this feature right?

[eager trout]

It's the aim button on console

[ember storm]

yeah

what about it

[chrome fog]

Eris and Eevee want a demonstration but 1) my brother has the Xbox and 2) my laptop only has 600+ gb available and it’s 100+gb for Destiny by itself, so idk if I can get it running on my laptop well enough to demonstrate

[ember storm]

crazy

[chrome fog]

Begging

[jagged badge]

I don’t need it rn

I can just check myself when I wake up

I just didn’t know it was a thing

[chrome fog]

👍

[ember storm]

i am sorry but i am preoccupied (playing nv)

[chrome fog]

Fair

[eager trout]

I want Vex Mythoclast

[chrome fog]

We told you

[ember storm]

then go get it

[chrome fog]

VoG

Go grind it across three characters

[jagged badge]

#✨destiny-discussion

[eager trout]

I know how to get it, but it needs PS Plus

[chrome fog]

VoG is available with Vanilla D2

[eager trout]

And that means...?

[jagged badge]

Still needs PS+

[chrome fog]

Darn

Thought it was like Xbox and PC where you can do the legacy raids without purchasing the expansions

[eager trout]

I have the expansions, but I need PS Plus

[somber light]

you cant play online without ps plus

[shadow crypt]

What’s the hellmouth

[trim grotto]

Go to moon
Find the big hole
Hellmouth

[chrome fog]

Big crack

With green light and everything

[shadow crypt]

I found it

Has it been used for anything after we defeat crota

[trim grotto]

Well there was Shadowkeep

And Hunt

[shadow crypt]

Any big bad use it for evil purposes

[chrome fog]

It's a crack

In the Moon

Which was where the Hive were

[eager trout]

Not much you can do with a big hole

[empty fern]

You can put hive in it

(Oh I’m severely late)

[chrome fog]

It’s a hidey hole for the Hive, you descend into it for most of our offenses against the Hive forces in there

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-best-mates-sami-glitch-sami-destiny2-gif-15811476

[trim grotto]

It is a hole

[gentle geyser]

(Evil)

[chrome fog]

Evil hole

[empty fern]

Evole

[raw hazel]

Evole...

[runic widget]

Why do fallen have four arms if they never use more than 2 at once? They just kinda hold them out in a pose instead of, i dont know, actually using them.

[raw hazel]

Because

That’s how they evolved?

[trim grotto]

Because they do

You don't always see in game but they definitely do

[runic widget]

They dont use them ever. Its like you put someone with 2 arms in a body with 4 arms and they havent figured out how to utilize them yet.

[trim grotto]

Except they do

[raw hazel]

They do, yes

It’s hard to see sure but, they do

[runic widget]

https://youtu.be/r-3jutaQG9w?si=T4Ub8N6dpYr1Kr39

[raw hazel]

And they do all the time in lore as well

[runic widget]

Exibit A

[raw hazel]

Ah yes

A single instance

[trim grotto]

I can think of an instance off the top of my head - Eido during the Festival of the Lost, Book 3

[runic widget]

They also stop shooting you to use their top left arm to throw a grenade

Instead of not doing that

[trim grotto]

Okay but basing it on gameplay isn't always accurate

They use their lower arms, that's the long and short of it

[gentle geyser]

Thats wrong

The real life explanation is its significantly more work

But also

Realistically they probably wouldn’t use them as much as you think

Think of it as how people have dominant hands

The second set of arms are in a different position

[trim grotto]

I thought you said heads for a second there

[gentle geyser]

So they arent as universally useful

But also saying they don’t use their extra arms is just not true

[runic widget]

Idk man, i use all my limbs myself. I'd think they would as well, even if some are more dominant.

[gentle geyser]

Do you have 4 arms?

[runic widget]

They wouldnt use them purely too look cool

[gentle geyser]

Thats not how that works

[runic widget]

No, but i dont know a single animal that doesnt use all its limbs

[gentle geyser]

Mate

The fuck they gonna use 4 arms for

Legitimately

[raw hazel]

It makes sense they use their larger primary set of arms more often

[gentle geyser]

They also move insanely fast by crawling

They can also climb on walls and ceilings

[runic widget]

Throwing a grenade whilst shooting you instead of stoping and thowing with the top left one specifically

[gentle geyser]

Its a video game

They have to be obvious

So that the player knows what’s happening and can stop it

[runic widget]

"Of course they use their four arms, they just dont"

[gentle geyser]

No its just you not seeing it when it happens and not realizing that it requires more work to animate

[raw hazel]

Right, from a dev perspective you want the actions and tells of game characters to be readable at a glance

[gentle geyser]

They use their extra arms on a constant basis in game as movement and to hold their weapons

[runic widget]

Oh it definitely does require more work, doesnt exonerate it from criticisms

[raw hazel]

Like yeah they don't use the lower arms all the time but like, insects don't fly all the time, if I'm sitting I'm not using my legs

[gentle geyser]

Yea except you are just wrong about them not using them

[raw hazel]

If you're carrying around big weapons I imagine it's easier to just use the bigger arms

And, again, they make use of all four in lore

[gentle geyser]

Also the position they are in inherently makes them less effective for daily use

[raw hazel]

Just because it's not always visible when you're gunning them down, doesn't make it any less true

[gentle geyser]

They use their first set of arms as their dominant hands

[raw hazel]

And even then- Using other real world animals as an example imo doesn't work, because we have no animals irl that have four arms

[gentle geyser]

Like yes you can use all 4 hands to type on a computer, but why, it would get in the way for no reason and wouldn’t save time

[runic widget]

The arms are almost the same length, they just keep them tucked or in weird poses behind themselves

[gentle geyser]

Having 4 arms doesn’t objectively mean all 4 are in use 24/7

Especially when the eliksni are bipedal

[gentle geyser]

They have less range of motion

This is literally just you complaining about something that isn’t a problem

[exotic cloak]

Think that is just game design and in fact

The fallen that throw grenades have two arms

[gentle geyser]

Lol

[raw hazel]

This all just feels very non-sensical and nitpicky

[exotic cloak]

Like

[gentle geyser]

It is

[exotic cloak]

Bro has weak arms

He needs to take a moment to aim

[raw hazel]

Imagine being ableist about the poor dregs

[gentle geyser]

Dregs undergo docking, meaning they essentially just don’t have the second set

[exotic cloak]

And the other dudes, they are not throwing grenades

[raw hazel]

Not their damn fault they got fewer arms

[exotic cloak]

Fucking kells

[gentle geyser]

Love how eramis went from like 9’2 to 7’0

[exotic cloak]

Sister got ether deficiency

[gentle geyser]

Real

The fallen would actually be pretty damn strong if it weren’t for kells and ether

[raw hazel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xyja9Q_Nvc

Also loooook Spider moving around and using all four arms!

C r a z y

[raw hazel]

Mayhaps one day they'll all be Captain sized

😔

[gentle geyser]

Mithrax my beloved

[raw hazel]

I'm excited to see more of him in TFS

It's been a while

[gentle geyser]

The fallen need a W

[exotic cloak]

I guess he can appear but

[gentle geyser]

I mean he is gonna

Hes in the trailer

[exotic cloak]

I'm just guessing they will just be there

Crow and Cayde will be doing the important shit

[gentle geyser]

Mithrax going into the traveler could honestly be big for the fallen as a faction, get more members of the house of light

[exotic cloak]

Oh damn we haven't seen Crow

[gentle geyser]

They saving him

We’ve heard him speak

[trim grotto]

be Eliksni.```

they do

[exotic cloak]

I hope he is just regular because some were thinking they will just corrupt him or something

[trim grotto]

"You lie like a Human."
Mithrax sees the shift of the spear in the Dreg's hands the moment before he lunges. The Kell avoids its thrust and grips the Dreg by his head, slamming it into the ground with a hard crack. The Vandal draws a sidearm. Mithrax rushes him, grabs him by the wrist, and wrenches the gun upward. The Vandal's lower hand jabs a knife in the soft flesh between Mithrax's carapace. He barely feels it—the Kell of Light puts a hand around his attacker's throat and squeezes the life from him.```

here's another

[gentle geyser]

Unironically if d3 does happen I legitimately want the fallen as an enemy faction to just no longer exist, maybe just fully replace them with scorn but the fallen aren’t sustainable, house of light needs a W

[dim minnow]

it is canon that Mithrax allegedly died before

[exotic cloak]

I mean house of dusk still around

[dim minnow]

and somehow came back

[gentle geyser]

💤

[exotic cloak]

But honestly I want to see red legion just disappear

Replace them with shadow legion even the champions

[dim minnow]

Red Legion deserved what they got

[gentle geyser]

I hope D3 changes up factions in a big way

[exotic cloak]

Dudes were defeated like 5 years ago

[dim minnow]

hell they deserved worse

[exotic cloak]

Goddamn

Why they still around

Blow up their edz base

[trim grotto]

They kinda aren't, narratively

[dim minnow]

if you really look into it, Ghaul was probably an outlier among the Red Legion

[gentle geyser]

But yea honestly I want scorn to fully replace the fallen as an enemy faction for d3, unless fallen get a major power boost, they aren’t sustainable

[exotic cloak]

I mean yeah but I mean in gameplay

Just replace them with shadow legion

[dim minnow]

well we do have the updated Lake of Shadows

[gentle geyser]

[trim grotto]

shake of ladows

[exotic cloak]

What's the position of house of dusk anyway

[gentle geyser]

Do we know what the state Riis is in? Is it just like, gone gone

[dim minnow]

FUBAR

[exotic cloak]

They just random scarvengers

Or they actually did something in the last years

[dim minnow]

probably razed like Torobatl

[trim grotto]

the former

they aren't even a House really they're just collectively independant, if that makes sense

[dim minnow]

Dusk really has no real way of being a threat unless they find something

even then they're too unorganized

[gentle geyser]

Honestly in my brain ignoring that Im a simp for eliksni I thought they could do a thing with bringing riis back with d3 and having a revamped fallen faction
Sadly highly unlikely

[exotic cloak]

So there's no Kell for these bros

[dim minnow]

no

[gentle geyser]

House of dusk really is the house of all time

[exotic cloak]

We at least can give that to them

[dim minnow]

you know, I like to think that Atraks was heavily linked to Dusk because her mask (before becoming Exo) was heavily Dusk-themed

[exotic cloak]

No kells

No rules

No shit

[gentle geyser]

Me when the fallen are so fucked as a faction that there is a faction entirely of dead fallen

[exotic cloak]

I mean House Of Salvation was just a bunch of remains of Fallen Houses so I don't see why not

[gentle geyser]

Salvation is just dusk 2.0

[exotic cloak]

I mean Salvation was organized

By mid leaders

But yeah they had their kell

[dim minnow]

why tf did I just find the weirdest Atraks-1 art on google images

[gentle geyser]

Has house of dusk even like, done anything of major importance

[dim minnow]

man I just want to find better pictures of her pre-exo

[gentle geyser]

There really aren’t many

[iron mortar]

Ok so, what the fuck is the Veil

[dim minnow]

Darkness Traveler

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[iron mortar]

And why didn't the lightfall campaign explain it

[exotic cloak]

Basically

[chrome fog]

Not exactly Darkness Traveler but. Darkness Traveler

[dim minnow]

Darkness Traveler

[gentle geyser]

Lazy

[exotic cloak]

Mid writing

[dim minnow]

literally the Traveler but Darkness

[chrome fog]

Crunch

[gentle geyser]

Giant ham

[exotic cloak]

Both

[dim minnow]

Traveler is a shaper of the Physical world

[chrome fog]

And rearranging how the concluding segment of the Light and Darkness Saga would have gone

[dim minnow]

Veil is a shaper of consciousness

[iron mortar]

How do you know this

And why didn't Bungie explain this clearly

[dim minnow]

because in-game dialogue from Osiris

[exotic cloak]

Veil logs

And yeah that too

[dim minnow]

post-Lightfall quest released during Deep

I also kind of figured it from the start

[gentle geyser]

They do, in missions after the campaign where you have to sit and listen to audio logs

[chrome fog]

They said in the preview stream for Lightfall that they could not properly fit everything they wanted established before leading into the final confrontation with the Witness and thus had to extend Lightfall into itself and Final Shape

[iron mortar]

What does that even mean

[dim minnow]

because Tenebrium (the Veil theme) uses the Pyramid motif while sounding harmonic

[dim minnow]

think of it like this
Light = Physical domain
Dark - Conscious domain

the Traveler can shape the physical world down to the molecule

hence its power of terraformation

the Veil is confirmed to be a Darkness equivalent to it

therefore, it can shape the Conscious domain

[chrome fog]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS2hBTtCDufQ-h9RA3e-GZElbqNS9GyBP&si=0QwYBAmkTUJC2J-Z

[dim minnow]

like warping one's mind

[iron mortar]

Ok so what I don't understand, is how can Bungie make really good lore and write amazing grimores and lore entries, but when it comes to writing a campaign that explains and shows it off they instead show "80s crazy waky dude with a skateboard'

[dim minnow]

Pyramid motif implies Darkness while music related to the Traveler sounds harmonic

[iron mortar]

Like who is writing the campaign and who is writing the lore

[chrome fog]

And again. Crunch to meet rising expectations after WQ despite the fact that they had just put out their best work in the midst of lockdown and Covid, as well as being dissatisfied with where the narrative was placed before the final battle with the Witness and splitting Lightfall between itself and Final Shape

[chrome fog]

Multiple people and teams.

Like, seriously. It was just unfortunate circumstances.

[trim grotto]

well i have a lil' bit of inside knowledge on that and the short version is

the management

[chrome fog]

And people were already pissed that the release for Lightfall was taking so long

[iron mortar]

Well the main issue for me is how Bungie has made these mistakes so many times

[iron mortar]

Sauce?, explain more

[dim minnow]

no need to interrogate our local mailman

[trim grotto]

i cannot and will not sauce thee because it would violate the privacy of a friend

but there are other sources stating similar issues

[iron mortar]

Like destiny lore has made me cry because of how beautiful it is, and it really sucks seeing how the campaigns are so ass in comparison

[chrome fog]

It would behoove you to know that Bungie is not a singular entity. It is many people working towards developing something they all would like to say they are proud of at the end of the day, though they are still beholden to the demands and deadlines of their upper management and shareholders.

[iron mortar]

Like they have so much potential

[dim minnow]

it being shit doesn't really get to me, I still enjoy it

[trim grotto]

oh certainly
there's a lot of diamonds among the rough

[dim minnow]

I mean, I'm one of the few people who actively wishes they could replay the BL campaign

because the final mission went hard

[chrome fog]

I pasted a message when people were making the same complaints at LF’s release, lemme get it

[dim minnow]

you know, I haven;t mentioned it in this channel yet, but today is actually my birthday

[iron mortar]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY 🎂🎉🎂

[chrome fog]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/689677141012381726/1121471819828961280/image0.jpg?ex=66346345&is=663311c5&hm=fd981c15192c709bade02cc5f0d74212597ae8f5f89ae1ca2190429416e7891d&

[chrome fog]

Hapy bort

[chrome fog]

Lost media now with the server wipe that happened between then and now

[dim minnow]

when the Turkish hackers invaded

[raw hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/totoro-gif-18215200

[chrome fog]

Seriously though, Bungie made as clear as they could that Lightfall wasn’t going to be as great as Witch Queen and were hopeful that the player base would take this into consideration

[iron mortar]

Ok for me, if i would tell Bungie development team to just wait, this happened with cyberpunk as well, if the game isn't ready don't release it, and try to make it better later, like it sucks upper management sucks so badly that stuff like this has been happening for 10+ years

Like it seems upper management has really killed destiny potential for the last decade

[trim grotto]

yep
but there is a legitimate issue with D2 over Cyberpunk - live service, and a singular source of income for the company in that service

but yes

There are reports of, say, QoL updates that Devs want to spend time designing but management have denied over other more flashy things, for example

[iron mortar]

Especially since didn't Bungie fire like 100 people because of Sony upper management

[trim grotto]

there is an actual source for this but i cannot recall it

[iron mortar]

Ooooh

Ok this makes sense

[trim grotto]

Well no, actually
it wasn't really Sony related

[iron mortar]

Ok so my current head canon, is the reason the lore is good is because it is one thing upper management won't touch, but campaigns are the things they want to be simple and easy and don't want to be rich stories

[trim grotto]

But yeah there were a bunch of folks fired

[iron mortar]

My friend told me it was some reason with Sony

[chrome fog]

And again. Put out a reworked lighting engine and new subclass in Beyond Light then delivered Witch Queen while holding over the next Darkness subclass because they hadn’t fully conceptualized it with seasons ALL THROUGH COVID

[rich veldt]

happy day of birth aniversary to you

[trim grotto]

Sony didn't get involved until a certain business low point, as stipulated by the contract

this was Bungie trying to save money for the unexpectedly low preorder profits

[iron mortar]

Ok, but to FIRE SALVATORI

[chrome fog]

Again, upper management, not developers

[iron mortar]

that is fucking wild

Sal is literally God of music

[trim grotto]

He wasn't the music lead and hadn't been for years to be fair

Sky Lewin is

[iron mortar]

But even still

He composed some of the best tracks

To fire him is wild

[chrome fog]

Regardless, nothing is wholly the dev’s fault directly, if given the space needed to properly develop the game as they’d like they deliver amazingly, it is up to management to provide them that space and comfort to be able to do so

[trim grotto]

The lore writers often write around the gameplay/story
They're free to do their thing so long as it fits what is being put into place

And the gameplay/story are what the management are concerned about over most else, as that's what keeps them afloat

[iron mortar]

But why not allow them to write the story and campaigns we play

[chrome fog]

Oh honey

[trim grotto]

Pardon?

[rich veldt]

get a job at bungie if you think you can do it

[chrome fog]

There are former (and still current) players that work at Bungie

But even then, like

[iron mortar]

Sorry mistyped

Typo

Misinput

Calm down

[chrome fog]

I would not trust the majority of the player base to contribute to the development of the game

[iron mortar]

Calm down misinput

[chrome fog]

[iron mortar]

I said allow lore writers to write the d2 campaigns and allow campaigns to fully tell the lore and story

[chrome fog]

They… do

[iron mortar]

For example books of sorrow should have been a big part of the taken king campaign not a grimores card

[trim grotto]

Seth Dickinson, for example, is a book writer. He is a published author. This doesn't translate as well into a gameplay or story experience as much as one may expect.

Different talents, basically. Like how you absolutely wouldn't put George RR Martin in charge of directing, you'd just have him advise.

[chrome fog]

Would you really like to listen to a large amount of exposition in the midst of completing warpriest?

[iron mortar]

To be honest my first time through I would not mind

Like just mute it for a second time or replaying players of the raid

[chrome fog]

You would as you’re flooded with your current activity whilst also trying to listen in to a monologue

[rich veldt]

gotta consoder the average player just needs enough to understand and will not care for all the extra story

[trim grotto]

Then there's duration, budget, complexity, the fact that this is still a looter shooter despite the cool lore, and the strict timeline the development is on
This concept isn't without merit, but I do not believe it would work for Destiny 2, the game, as it stands. A different style of game in the same universe, perhaps, but not D2.

[iron mortar]

Oh

[chrome fog]

And to an extent, this type of lore dumping has been fairly present in Bungie’s games; like yeah you get cutscenes and dialogue explaining immediate stuff happening, but you get deeper lore in entries you collect and find

[iron mortar]

So basically I am asking for a halo style linear story

But that would not work

Persay

[trim grotto]

Well, Final Shape and the Episodes may surprise us with their new systems

We'll see

[chrome fog]

You’re asking for more monologuing whilst the current player base can barely sit down and listen to what is being said to their faces

[iron mortar]

Because I would love a d2 20+ hour linear story campaign that is rich with lore and explain everything

[iron mortar]

That is something else that I was told

[trim grotto]

That's also true
I mean we had a guy an hour ago saying Fallen don't use their second set of arms

[iron mortar]

That most people in d2 do not care for lore

[iron mortar]

Bro I had a guy said Eris was a warlock 💀💀💀🤔

[trim grotto]

Oh absolutely
I would adore a game about Destiny's universe in that sort of format

[trim grotto]

That's actually a surprisingly common one
Spooky occult lady must = Warlock

[chrome fog]

Like the Veil Containment Logs were not a big secret, but it was and is a persistent issue that people complain about the lack of elaboration on the Veil when, as Bungie said they wanted to do, they provided an explanation after the main campaign

[iron mortar]

She says she was a hunter in shadowkeep 💀💀

[trim grotto]

well yeah but that's also a legitimate issue with the campaign

[chrome fog]

In fairness she has robes draping down to her feet, which is not usual Hunter attire

[iron mortar]

Like if Bungie sees the potential in a spinoff, bro my wallet is theirs

[chrome fog]

Which I acknowledge, I am just presenting the fact that Bungie themselves have also been aware and transparent with issues the community would be facing because it is issues that they see in what they’ve produced

[trim grotto]

100%
I'd shell out for a Collector's Edition on that

[iron mortar]

I would spend $80 on books of sorrow game

Base

No collector edition

That is how much I wanna see that

[chrome fog]

Bungie is very open, exceedingly so amidst other companies who so blatantly hide their controversies, and have made it a point to be in a community with their players; that’s not to say their mistakes are absolved, but just take into consideration what they say is and isn’t up to their standard and how much that overlaps with what the community (when it’s being sensible) complains about and is a legitimate issue

[iron mortar]

That is more of an issue of people don't want to wait later for something to be improved and I myself would prefer if it was just in the lightfall campaign from the start

Even if they fix it

[trim grotto]

It would make far more narrative sense to have even a basic explanation in the campaign and leave the detail for after.

Just, "paracausal artifact, Witness may cause havoc or harm the Traveler with it, powers city, plz stop"
We got two of these and it was "powers city, plz stop"

[iron mortar]

Like now I understand the veil is the darkness traveler I wish I was told this in the campaign rather than later,but I like the fact Bungie tried to fix it

[trim grotto]

But I'm not here to complain about Lightfall the funny grapple is fun

[dim minnow]

I mean, I kind of figured out that the Veil was a Darkness Traveler a while before

in fact I figured that Bungie was cooking with it ever since WQ

[dim minnow]

am I right about this Mael?

[iron mortar]

Like for lore lovers, doesn't it hurt knowing that Bungie won't fully do a linear story because of the lore shooter nature of the game

[rich veldt]

we get it you figured it out 29 years ago

[dim minnow]

that the Veil was something Bungie had thought up for a while

[iron mortar]

(and stupidity of the community for not liking the lore)

[chrome fog]

And again, there was a lot of restructuring the content included with the Lightfall campaign that led to the split between Lightfall and Final Shape, as well as some spill over from Witch Queen in that, they hadn’t fully a pin on what they wanted to make their next subclass be - Deepsight was about as far as they could have implemented it with what they knew they wanted; there are issues, but Bungie was not in a great position to immediately knock down everything they wanted and release a satisfying expansion, leading to the issues presented

[trim grotto]

I assume so, development starts long before we know about it
I know people who know about Bungie and people who know game design and people who worked at Bungie but I'm not privy to Joe's private emails

[rich veldt]

they coulda had the initial idea all the way back in d1 for all we know when planning the rough idea on where they wanted to go

[dim minnow]

I figured that Bungie was trying to foreshadow something like the Veil ever since the WQ Parasite quest

and that the rest of the WQ year was related to the Witness trying to find it

[trim grotto]

Well, a bit, yeah. But there's still so, so much lore, and this universe... it ticks all the right boxes for me. So, I've spent years learning all about it, and by jove, I know a fair chunk about it. Still loving it, and that's why I'm here. To chat and teach lore.

[chrome fog]

If I were not awake at 2:30am and feeling mischievous, I would detail how a lot of Destiny’s narrative development mirrors that of Bionicle’s, but alas I am eepy and pooped

[dim minnow]

I mean, is it really a coincidence that the Lucent Brood was trying to take over the Moon in Risen and the Witness sends Calus there to do something with the Lunar Pyramid literally the next season?

[iron mortar]

Huh?

[chrome fog]

Because like, the Giant Robot in Bionicle had been planned since the beginning, and it took 7-ish years to get to the actual reveal of the big robot

[rich veldt]

just let dova cook for a minute

you are witnessing theory crafting at its finest

[chrome fog]

Oh yeah Risen had some Lucent Hive in the moon

Tryna remember when that happened it was literally the season with the expansion release

[rich veldt]

also wasnt one of nezzys tombs the lunar pyramid?

[iron mortar]

Like It makes sense, but also I know Bungie doesn't have a clear vision beginning middle and end for destiny, and I wish they did

[dim minnow]

their whole plan was to steal and "refine" Light so they can use it to set up a foothold on the Moon

[dim minnow]

exactly, which is why the Witness wanted Calus to commune with it

[iron mortar]

Like they do now I think

[dim minnow]

in fact, our final confrontation with Calus in Haunted was in a chantry for Nezarec

[iron mortar]

But years ago, Bungie did not have a clear beginning middle and end for the franchise

[rich veldt]

you would be suprised, they had a 9yr plan for the game im pretty sure they have always known atleast a rough direction to take the story

[chrome fog]

I mean they do, like very clearly they have been building the Light and Darkness saga across at least 5 years since Shadowkeep, it’s maintaining the downtime between major expansions and developments of the story simultaneously with all that which poses the issue

Also you could say that about the beginning of a handful of seasons maybe, I know the midpoint of a season has a bunch of players complaining

Some justifiably, all of it mostly impatience for the climax

[dim minnow]

WQ - Savathun's Worm tells us Savathun did something that helped the Traveler push back the Witness during the Collapse (which we now know was her killing Nezarec and hiding the Veil on Neptune)
Risen - Lucent Brood's plans converged on the Moon where Nezarec's Pyramid lies
Haunted - Calus was sent by the Witness to commune with Nezarec's Pyramid likely because the Witness wanted to retrive his body
Plunder - We find out for certain that the Moon Pyramid was Nezarec's and that his body was in there (only his head was left which the Witness reclaimed). The Witness wanted to try and retrieve the rest of it probably to try and fix him up so it can find out what happened to the Veil.
Seraph - The Witness continued its search for answers looking to Ares Spire while having Xivu Arath and Eramis keep us busy

the Witness probably also didn't want us finding the Veil before it which might be why it wanted Rasputin taken care of

[chrome fog]

Like I could see the Veil reveal might have worked better in Witch Queen maybe, or even a season of that release year, maybe even have Neomuna only really utilized in for the intro mission before going into the traveler, but then what about Neomuna, or attaching a big plot point like that to seasonal content, how about Strand when and how would we get time to develop our skill with it, and a bunch of other things in between.

There’s too much to handle, wherein trying to figure out a better schedule of content release which would have satisfyingly delivered all the information we have learned now plus Final Shape is almost impossible except the way that they did it presently. There’s probably better ways of releasing the story in a satisfying way, but it sure would be difficult to figure them out

[dim minnow]

to be clear, this was a theory I came up with not long after LF released as a response to people claiming the Veil was some pointless mcgyver buglechips came up with

[chrome fog]

Point of this is that, even with the best laid plans some things don’t pan out the way we want them to, though very clearly Bungie had a roadmap of narrative beats they wanted to hit in a particular order, it was just finding ways to properly correlate them to in-game activity and justify having players go through that content proved really difficult leading into Lightfall

Using the Bionicle parallels again, there would’ve been a major reveal of 6 other big giant robots, instead of just the one in which the past majority of a decade has been taking place within and atop, but cancellation due to lower sales meant that this and the various other plot threads never went anywhere

[chrome fog]

I do remember prior to Lightfall that we really latched onto the Veil being introduced as a concept as well as the repeated inclusion of Nezarec in the lore despot the fact that the last thing to mention him prior to Haunted was the Red War exotic Warlock helm, Nezarec’s Sin; really glad those plot bunnies somewhat culminated in something

[raw hazel]

damn i missed a lot

[chrome fog]

Mostly me yapping

And thus I inter rest

[raw hazel]

I shall save a bookmark to read back in the morning

[rich veldt]

just a spoonfull

[outer dragon]

That they are a transmitter/receiver that happen to be useful as weapons? It's old D1 lore but here
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/slap-rifle
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/line-rifle

Or was it the new Lunas and Blast Furnace lore?

[pliant shard]

Lmfao I love destiny lore, I have to go through this entire channel

[trim grotto]

haha well that may take a while

[exotic cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/smartphone-scroll-swipe-phone-iphone-gif-5822550

Good luck

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/old-boomer-history-84years-many-years-ago-gif-18534104

[pliant shard]

I have the lore books for d2 but it's nothing compared to walls of text on an app

I need a link to the top of this channel

[ember storm]

I mean

this channel isn’t about just listing lore

if you want that just go to Ishtar

[empty fern]

If you wanna continue then

This should be the top of the current channel

[lost summit]

Guys new player here, I want to understand the story of destiny a little bit.
I had a pretty good idea about it at the start when I went from the Cosmodrome to the EDZ then after that I focused a bit on getting gear and did some activities in other planets and also did things to get my guardian rank to 5

in that gameplay time I ran across some things that I dont understand

[ember storm]

well the story started like 10 years ago back in 2014 with D1, so

[lost summit]

should I just play for the gameplay?

[lost summit]

its too late for me right?

[ember storm]

I mean if you really want to learn the lore you can

[crystal wolf]

I miss the collectible book I had for D1

[ember storm]

but it’s just normal to be confused at this point

I gtg, so uh

[lost summit]

Not really the lore but if there was a list of quests orderded so that I can do them

I would

does some thing like that exist

[crystal wolf]

Too true. There's a lot there and not of all it is connected

[ember storm]

there’s the timeline tab ingame that has the chronological order

I mean that’s just what a universe is

[crystal wolf]

Correct

[empty fern]

There’s always those timeline videos on YouTube

[lost summit]

Youtube is a good option for me ig

idk why bungie dosent want to preserve gameplay

[empty fern]

?

[errant olive]

probably referring to sunsetting seasons that are important to the story

[empty fern]

Oh

Don’t worry most if not all of it’s been documented

[chrome fog]

And again, there is an in-game timeline for players to get a gist of events that happened prior

Learning the lore is not impossible, all you really need is a topic to start from and just go crazy from there

We have www.ishtar-collective.net as a fan developed repository of in-game lore entries and content directly from the API, as well as the Destiny Lore Vault channel and Destiny 2’s own official channel keeping video records of past gameplay and dialogue

[chrome fog]

As for why they have to remove seasonal content after an expansion year, the game is already pretty massive just with itself and its expansions, which does have an effect on performance on both server and client ends. If they were to keep in the content of every season, the data size of Destiny 2 would bloat an insane amount, so they have to winnow some of it to keep it from being an issue

[lost summit]

Yeah it's like 80 gigs now right ?

[eager trout]

I think it's like 100

A single Vex consists of a colony of countless microorganisms, right? How individual are the microorganisms? Are they like a hive mind, or are they just really good at cooperation?

[empty fern]

Hive mind

[eager trout]

Ok

[empty fern]

Although I do wonder where the line is on different collectives

[eager trout]

Technically an aberrant Vex can escape from the others by taking the least likely course of action, right?

[empty fern]

[ember storm]

each vex mind core is individual

[empty fern]

My vexy knowledge is limited

[ember storm]

it’s just that Vex Minds inhabit all the bodies around them as well

it’s the same pattern

their biology isn’t remotely like humans so you can’t apply normal logic to it

[empty fern]

Are vex minds found in units like hydras or Cyclopes

[ember storm]

vex minds are the things literally called [Blank] Mind

[jagged badge]

Panoptes, Infinite Mind is a Hydra

For example

[ember storm]

just as an example:

that’s what vex Minds are

literally and figuratively

they are the individuals

[empty fern]

I see

[ember storm]

ignore Gorgons

they’re just

Gorg

[empty fern]

Gorg, Gorgon Mind

A cabal vex abomination

[eager trout]

Can a Goblin be a Mind?

[empty fern]

If bungie wills it probably yea

[ember storm]

Minotaurs are essentially just bigger goblins so

probably not

there’s no difference in gameplay

[vestal summit]

is this a reference to anything in the universe of destiny?

i'm confused.

[ember storm]

Spinfoil is a type of material

[vestal summit]

or is it just a general tinfoil hat meme.

[ember storm]

but it’s a joke about tinfoil hats, yes

[vestal summit]

huh, i thought it was related to a character or an event in destiny.

[ember storm]

I mean, it is

that and the other Archie gifts are old Cayde items

[vestal summit]

yeah, i knew about the expired coupon but not of the tinfoil hat.

[ember storm]

he also had an ascendant artichoke

[empty fern]

Wonder what Archie’s next 2 items are

[ember storm]

which was an artichoke he arbitrarily had on his person that he decided to introduce to a hive hexing ritual

[empty fern]

Why tho

[ember storm]

because

[empty fern]

[fickle torrent]

is the drifter a hunter titan or warlock?

[jagged badge]

He isn’t any of them

He never learned to use his Light specifically per any class system. He was resurrected in the Dark Age before that was generally solidified anyway, and he was a loner who distrusted the Light as well

He’s simply a Lightbearer. Even now he prefers Stasis

[empty fern]

Wonder if exo strangers radio on Europa picks up anything interesting

[ember storm]

it does

mostly Eliksni chatter

Spider is even on it

https://youtu.be/9f1ZnCsHi9w?si=fqZkUyKjDQDmTkPw

[empty fern]

Love it

[fresh zephyr]

If the Black Fleet took planets like Titan away from Sol, how did they end up returning?

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[empty fern]

Magic

[chrome fog]

We think the planets encounter in the Vow raid has something to do with it but otherwise no explanation had been specifically given

[empty fern]

Vow?

But yea, probably real ye d to this

[naive raptor]

Who is lord shaxx’s wife?

[chrome fog]

Any female guardians that got the Vow bow from Crimson Days event

If you are referring to Mara Sov, their meeting was not of a “romantic” nature, they were reminiscing over someone they deeply respected and loved who was now dead/gone

[chrome fog]

This is Vow, right? Or did I oopsie and mix up the encounters with RoN

[empty fern]

You oopsied

[chrome fog]

Darn

https://tenor.com/view/ah-eto-bleh-anime-bleh-gif-26784876

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-the-witch-queen-witch-queen-the-witness-black-fleet-gif-24979827

What did witness open up to

Cause that’s not a tunnel

[raw hazel]

My long lost self-esteem…

[empty fern]

There’s a lot in there

[ember storm]

to be clear, he offered his hand in marriage to anyone who earned the Vow bow from the crimson days event

which means everyone who did

[empty fern]

Wonder if vow bow returns

[ember storm]

never

crimson days was shit

But I did like the confectionary ghost

[empty fern]

Twab dropper lore for the pantheon bosses

[subtle lake]

Who was Golgoroth? War Priest and Oryx are obvious. But him?

Lore-wise of course

[eager trout]

What's that place?

[raw hazel]

I am enjoying the tidbit about Golgy and flower petals

[chrome fog]

Big Doggy

[outer dragon]

Any guardian

[chrome fog]

They said wife specifically

[outer dragon]

All Guardians who earned the bow were married to him

[chrome fog]

Husbands and Wives

And the person asking was specifically requesting who Shaxx's wife was

#📚lore-discussion message

So female Guardians

For a wife

[raw hazel]

Hey men can wives too

[chrome fog]

I mean yeah, identify however you want to identify as, that's wholly up to you, but it would be an additional paragraph if I didn't just go off the base definition of a wife by traditional standards; but yeah malewives rise up

[raw hazel]

And that is all my contribution for now as brain.exe no am work good today

[chrome fog]

Sleep go you

[eager trout]

I am Vault of Glassing

Or trying

Need fireteam

Is 3 people enough to beat Vault of Glass?

[empty fern]

Sure

[jagged badge]

No

;lfg

[candid inlet]

Looking for more players?
Check out #looking-for-group for links to our LFG channels, and further resources including:

• Destiny 2 LFG Discord (Formerly the Destiny 2 PC LFG, now for all platforms)
• D2Checkpoint
• Bungie Fireteam Search
• Reddit's r/Fireteam
• Reddit's r/DestinySherpa

[empty fern]

Root of nightmares
Nezeraks pyramids

[jagged badge]

Again, why do you keep talking about this stuff here

[raw hazel]

Related but, the little hints of a copy of Atraks-1 being squirreled away, or the original having gotten away makes me go

New Kell of Salvation mebbe?

[empty fern]

Mayhaps

But I wonder

Eremis followers are under witness and xivus control, the rat came back as scorn, what if witness gets atraks too

[raw hazel]

I mean in just over a month we’re taking the Witness out to the farm

[empty fern]

Indeed

But a lot can happen

[raw hazel]

Atraks-1 becoming Kell of House Salvation in the wake of the Witness’ defeat could be a fun narrative thread

[empty fern]

But wouldn’t that be long after the 3 episodes?

(Or maybe echos is fallen themed)

[ember storm]

Ask Praedyth

[raw hazel]

I mean that’s fine with me

[empty fern]

Or potentially forgotten plot

[raw hazel]

It’s the nature of Bungie story writing to leave plot threads up in the air

They like being able to pick up things whenever

[empty fern]

Backburners ye

[raw hazel]

Yer

This feels like very deliberate hinting/foreshadowing

[ember storm]

what is

[raw hazel]

New TWAB has new lore on the current Pantheon bosses

Read the bits on Atraks-1

[ember storm]

twab

read?

[raw hazel]

Hey

New lore

I ain’t gonna be picky

[empty fern]

Making it a little easier

[raw hazel]

And for planets man

[empty fern]

Oh forgot he exists

Don’t knife me, we didn’t even know who he was when Ron released

[iron mortar]

what is the black garden??

It is another realm or dimension

Or is a whole different planet

[raw hazel]

If I can get more brainjuice i can attempt an explanation

[iron mortar]

@chrome fog also back on previous convos, even if you understand why Bungie released the final shape as it was, do you feel it excuses the bad storytelling in lightfall when it was meant to be destiny's empire strikes back

Like not knowing what the veil wasn't the only issue with lightfall's story, (cough cough skateboard dude I forgot the name of)

[chrome fog]

Nimbus, they/them

And I’ve already put in my two cents as well as Mael, who has some connections to Bungie employees and has a significant insight into the struggle with developing Lightfall

Like darn Lightfall’s campaign was unsatisfying, too dang bad it’s already been past a year since its release and even prior to its launch Bungie said they had issues with developing it

Move on from it and just focus on what we have

[chrome fog]

Dimension but with an asterisk; the Vex themselves have a little pocket space which seemingly underlies regular space - known as the Vex Network - but the Black Garden itself seems to be its own space as well

The two major takes on the Black Garden is a) it's the birthplace of origin for the Vex (though this does have some issues with confirmation as the closest we really have to this being the case is information from the Witness, who is not wholly trustworthy; Entelechy insinuates that this might be the case but we do not actually have a whole hell of a lot giving us an origin of the Vex); or b) it is a simulated replica of the "Garden", though it is clear that the Black Garden was made to specifically house the Black Heart - the failed copy of the Veil (this information discovered both in the Veil Containment Logs as well as the Vexcalibur exotic quest, wherein the end portion of the catalyst quests leads us to a portion of the Vex Network that seemingly displays a blueprint of the Veil) - and allow the Vex to harvest Ascendent Energy/Paracausality from it via simulating other entities worshipping the artifact

I already sent the playlist of Veil Containment Logs, here is the Veil Blueprint thing from Vexcalibur
https://youtu.be/qkckWLdDvqg?si=gu5HJNRl1SzyEiES

[ember storm]

If you want to be real empire strikes back isn’t exactly a narrative masterpiece either

[chrome fog]

To no offense, Lightfall being mid is an old problem and we already have a couple great seasons as well as Into the Light to make up for what happened as well as their commitment to overdeliver with Final Shape

[empty fern]

Shut

[iron mortar]

Dam 🦫 calm down

[empty fern]

[exotic cloak]

I understand still being upset and not forgive Bungie mistakes but like Bionicle said is already an old issue

There's no much you can do about it

[rich veldt]

everyone complains about how lightfall was, but given bungie made it as they werent ready for tfs yet what does that

id rather have tfs delayed with lf then just delay tfs for who knows how long with no lf, plus story wise it was the better choice given how bungie have said they werent ready

yeah some stuff like the veil could have been done better, and bungie themselves werent happy, but they went and fixed it to make it right

[shadow crypt]

How did titan come back

[empty fern]

Witness magic

[jagged badge]

We don’t actually know

[shadow crypt]

Did it just pop back up randomly

[jagged badge]

Some people believe it could have been related to our exploits in the Macrocosm encounter in Root of Nightmares

[jagged badge]

Pretty much

[shadow crypt]

Dang

[chrome fog]

The recent TWID I believe has some lore on the Planets encounter

[chrome fog]

Nessus and Hally have thankfully provided screenshots

[next bobcat]

This is the single best lore meme I have ever seen

[outer dragon]

Who?

Kabr best boy BTW

[ember storm]

What the fuck is happening when I click your profile

[chrome fog]

Profile effeeeects

[outer dragon]

Discord nitro profile effects

[exotic cloak]

Magic

[outer dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/magic-gif-26166638

[chrome fog]

Oh boy, Shia Labouf before the breakdown

I think

[pure tree]

With Exos, as long as their memory banks are still stored in the DSC, they're not truly dead, right?

[jagged badge]

Kinda yeah

After overuse in the war, like a millennia being battered by the elements and having a space station dropped on the Crypt on top of that, it’s doubtful many of those are intact though

[pure tree]

Ok

Did we make sure to delete Atraks' memory banks from the DSC?

[jagged badge]

I mean, if House Salvation did preserve the memory upload of their own, they probably might not have left it in the Crypt

The Hidden have relayed rumors that a copy of Atraks-1’s mind exists, stored somewhere on Europa. This has yet to be verified.

“Somewhere on Europa”

[pure tree]

Also, what's the deal with the replicated Atraks during the raid?

Are they like more exo bodies that she cloned her mind into or like a projection of her kinda like Savathuns projections but fallen/braytech stuff

[gentle geyser]

Projections

Hence why damaging the wrong one causes wipe

[jagged badge]

I dunno about that

[gentle geyser]

I mean they literally disappear and reappear at will and theres only one real Atraks in that fight

[jagged badge]

Exos are humanoid machines that house a living mind. Atraks-1 obtained this technology from a BrayTech station orbiting Europa. Atraks’s mind commands multiples copies of her Exo frame.

Atraks-1 created multiple copies of herself to deceive foes. Fireteams encountering this tactic in the future are advised to locate the original target and focus a simultaneous strike.

The Hidden have relayed rumors that a copy of Atraks-1’s mind exists, stored somewhere on Europa. This has yet to be verified.
At least two of the initial six fireteam members that destroyed Atraks-1 believe they destroyed a clone and that the real Atraks-1 still lives. This is under investigation.

[gentle geyser]

Honestly that just makes even less sense

[jagged badge]

Maybe

But that’s what we got given today

[gentle geyser]

Im gonna question it just because its lore created multiple years later

They probably just trying to leave it up in the air for her to return

[pure tree]

Considering how battered Salvation is on top of Eramis leaving for Riis, if Atraks came back she would be the highest ranking member left right?

[gentle geyser]

Most likely yes

[exotic cloak]

The only one left cause the other suckers died

[ember storm]

she’s also not supposed to be the leader

[pure tree]

In 3 empire hunts, a lost sector, a story mission and a raid, we pretty much wiped out the entirety of House Salvations leadership lol

[ember storm]

lasted longer than other houses