📚lore-discussion

[eager trout]

It's trolling, then. I like to make weird takes.

[exotic cloak]

[chrome fog]

THey don't need to, they could just be involved; the Lucent Hive are already fairly heretical

[devout vine]

I want more lucent hive shenanigans...

[chrome fog]

And we've expressed how irritating it is trying to reiterate a point to you

[ember storm]

killing Xivu isn’t just going to give every hive a heart attack

also her army has been consolidating the entirety of the hidden swarm and every other hive sect that’s not Savathun

[chrome fog]

Waltz what's your pronouns I might've assumed wrong but I just want to be sure

[ember storm]

it says

[eager trout]

I mean, my original question was an actual thing I wondered because from the last like 7 lore tabs I've read there was a total of approximately 7 female guardians and 3 male guardians

[ember storm]

or doesn’t it

hold on

[eager trout]

There's more-?

[chrome fog]

Then that's just a dumb assumption and we already told you there's plenty of males in lore

[ember storm]

I mean yeah

[chrome fog]

Thanks so much my b for using he/him

[ember storm]

We’ve been fighting hive for almost 10 years now

Xivu’s armies have only came in since BL

[ember storm]

when did that happen

[chrome fog]

A couple times before, but Eris corrected me earlier #📚lore-discussion message

[eager trout]

When you get revived as a Guardian

[ember storm]

the fuck are you talking about

[chrome fog]

Eevee that

[ember storm]

we’re talking about my pronouns right now

[chrome fog]

Kids please

A vein is gonna pop

Deleto already did this bit

[eager trout]

Idk what I'm saying; I'm sick and my brain isn't working

[chrome fog]

Drink water and sleep

[ember storm]

Blue light isn’t going to be helping

[eager trout]

I'm stuck in clown mode

[eager trout]

I have comfort view enabled

[devout vine]

https://tenor.com/view/youre-welcome-kobe-bryant-black-mamba-no-problem-gif-5349969

[chrome fog]

No

[devout vine]

[chrome fog]

It irritates me when people online do this, it really does

[devout vine]

Spit some lore then

[eager trout]

Why does the Witness send randoms to do things instead of just going directly? Is it stupid?

[exotic cloak]

Witness is just sending their allies to deal with minor issues

We are not even something close to a threat for them

[chrome fog]

I would not be a good teach for k-8, they would be acting like this and I would need physical restraint not to hit them

How about this

[chrome fog]

What lore do you not know about

[eager trout]

Then what are the "major issues" the Witness deals with if basically everything in it's plan is done by others?

[devout vine]

Dunno... pretty much up to date with what's been popping in sol system

[exotic cloak]

Witness is inside the Traveler

[devout vine]

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head

[exotic cloak]

"reaching the final shape"

Or something

[eager trout]

I mean like, before that

[exotic cloak]

Well, getting here

He arrives on seraph

[eager trout]

Why send everyone to do everything for you if you're not actually doing anything?

[chrome fog]

Because they're busy doing something and it's not like its enemies can immediately go through the portal

[eager trout]

I said before The Final Shape

[chrome fog]

Because why go through all that effort when it can get other people to do it

[devout vine]

The witness and its Tomfoolery

[eager trout]

But getting those people to do things already requires effort because it's not like the Witness just went to them like "hey, wanna join my quest for revenge?" and they all immediately accepted

[chrome fog]

I mean. Look at glaive enthusiast. They were fully willing to go through with the Witness' plans except they had to be reminded that the end of the universe means no more glaives

[eager trout]

The Witness definitely could have gotten the Veil by going to Neomuna instead of sending Calus

[devout vine]

Dorito powers mate...
Doritos

[eager trout]

Who?

[devout vine]

Wait? So that means...
No more petra??

[eager trout]

Bro simps for Petra

[devout vine]

https://tenor.com/view/namztaes-sad-window-rain-gif-23232396

[chrome fog]

The other server member who was in this channel

[eager trout]

That's very vague

[chrome fog]

Why do you need the end of everything as we know it spelled out for you guys

[chrome fog]

Scroll up for someone with a purple username and you will see their username is "glaive enthusiast"

[devout vine]

I'm fucking around...
I know whatll happen...

[eager trout]

Wait, so Calus didn't realize that if the Witness succeeds he will lose his empire and his treasures?

Is he stupid?

[devout vine]

Whatever....
Midnight I get off work...

Time for destiny 2 Story carpool

[chrome fog]

YES YES YOU HAVE ASKED THIS BEFORE I SWEAR

[devout vine]

I'm on season of plunder right now

[eager trout]

I've used "is he stupid" several times but not about Calus, at least not this specific thing about Calus

[chrome fog]

You really have

I have explained how self-absorbed Calus is so, so so so so much in this channel

And what his Final Shape is

[devout vine]

Did anyone actually expect the Choad to be making an intellectual decision?
No...course not

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-the-chronicon
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/opulent-stalker-cloak

For the Opulent Stalker Cloak

[eager trout]

Btw, in the scene where everyone is in Zavala's office talking about how Savathun got the Light, who's the guy that isn't Zavala, Shaxx, Osiris, or Saint-14?

[eager trout]

"nuggets of chicken and the beer of roots"

[devout vine]

Should've known Zavala was a checkers guy.
Tsk tsk

[chrome fog]

Because he's a dipshit who doesn't actually research these things and just know they are associated with excess and relaxation. Which is his whole deal. Y'know, the gold-plated Cabal Emperor who spends his whole time dedicated to ensuring his pleasure and reverence by all

[chrome fog]

This is non-canonical in-universe in a way that is purposefully meant to illustrate how presumptive and stupid Calus is

[devout vine]

Well thank goodness

[eager trout]

Zavala: checkers
Ikora: 4D chess
Cayde: poker

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-nichijou-cry-head-in-hands-gif-12179359

[devout vine]

Wtf is up with the non Canon and shii...
If I wanted to delve into filler, I would've made myself suffer with the bleach Bount arc

[chrome fog]

I should've saved that gif for that message

[eager trout]

Speaking of checkers, why are there giant checkers pieces in the cave behind the Relic on Mars?

[chrome fog]

Aesthetic

[eager trout]

That makes no sense

[devout vine]

You mean past the relic Inside?

[eager trout]

Yeah

[devout vine]

You can shoot at them you know

Test a weapon

[chrome fog]

Wow the developers for the cool space magic shooter sometimes follow the Rule of Cool?

[eager trout]

Giant checkers don't just appear out of nowhere, even in time distortions

[chrome fog]

I am gonna get off and make dinner, then finish up everything for this semester

[eager trout]

Ok

[eager trout]

Do they come back?

[devout vine]

No...you can just shoot at them and damage numbers come up

[raw hazel]

It’s a shooting range. That’s all there is to it.

[devout vine]

This is very well known anyway

[eager trout]

I thought you couldn't shoot in that area

[devout vine]

You've never tried to fire your weapon anywhere at all?

[eager trout]

I thought you couldn't fire it in the Enclave

[devout vine]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-really-raise-eyebrows-eye-brow-gif-7674114773191232285

[ember storm]

hey uh

I dunno how to break this to you

but the enclave isn’t a time distortion

[eager trout]

Hence why the checkers don't make sense in any way

[devout vine]

Pyramid tech...
Don't question it

[eager trout]

Exactly, pyramid, not circle

[chrome fog]

Please

Stop

[devout vine]

Bro...I said its pyramid TECH

Technology

[chrome fog]

It is nothing

It is literally nothing

[devout vine]

JUST FUCKING SHOOT AT IT!! ITS A SHOOTING RANGE

[chrome fog]

It is nothing in the lore, it is a nonentity

The floating plates do not matter in the lore

And do not get any elaboration

[exotic cloak]

And they are just goddamn floating plates they don't need one

Pyramids are just weird af

[chrome fog]

Maybe the fact they are in the same place as the Relic, which is the source of the Time Rifts, and the very thing we use to look back on the memories associated with the worm familiar husk which clearly puts an association with Darkness and Deepsight to the Relic would suggest that it's so random reconjured bullshit that is floating midair for no reason other than to be a neat shooting range to test the damage of crafted weapons

[gentle geyser]

Sometimes stuff doesn’t make sense and doesn’t need to be explained

[exotic cloak]

Like a lot of things on ITL

They are just cool stuff

[placid ridge]

What the hell is going on here

Deleto lost it

[chrome fog]

It is childish hijinks

[devout vine]

How have I lost it?!?! You're all still stuck on the topic of those fucking Checker pads on Mars

They're literally nothing but shii too shoot at with a weapon you craft
...
Move on, next topic

[placid ridge]

Bro checker pads what?

I’m confused and just got in this coversation

[devout vine]

Have you not been keeping up with the conversation or what?

[raw hazel]

They literally said they just joined the conversation.

[placid ridge]

Not at all

[devout vine]

So why is he taking shots at me saying I've lost it when he doesn't know what's going on?

[raw hazel]

Because you do kinda go off the deep end at times.

[jagged badge]

Let’s just chill and move on

[devout vine]

I'm done...
Argue about the relic or whatever, this is just annoying

[chrome fog]

Kids Uncle Gest is very tired please behave

[modern lodge]

Finishers in lore, do we construct the weapons we use, like the cabal axe or the harpoon gun

Obviously the class ones are self explanatory

[blazing wasp]

Looks like they're mostly just light, like with emotes

Given that they change colors with subclass.

[solar pawn]

does anyone have random lore on ikora i need another reson to fear her

[jagged badge]

I could not afford to lose and be revealed as limited. But more importantly, I could not afford to win. What would they say if they knew what I could really do? The danger I could be?```

[solar pawn]

thank you seems to be a follow up from this correct

resting my voice as i dictate this, my ghost forbids me to incinerate myself so i can return with a fresh throat. guardians did admire that trick. they called me the bellowing phoenix! ha ha! reborn in fire to shout again!```

[jagged badge]

Yea

[chrome fog]

Do you already have the one where she’s in the higher percentile of Guardians?

[jagged badge]

IKO-006 ranks in the upper fraction of the 99th percentile of assessed Warlocks on most available metrics of precision, restraint, and raw power. She is, in simplistic terms, a fifth sigma Guardian: 1 in 3.5 million. Given that millions of Guardians have been activated over the centuries since the Collapse, and assuming that performance of Guardians on these metrics is normally distributed, we would expect about ten Guardians of similar power to have existed. Probability favors IKO-006's existence but also her rarity: she is neither an average Guardian nor evidence for some special intervention by the Traveler. Complaints that her talents are overblown or inflated in order to reinforce her authority, or that she benefits from the special favor of a higher power, are sorely mistaken and ignorant of basic statistics.

[gentle geyser]

Ikora is sigma (real)

[solar pawn]

fr

[chrome fog]

And a reminder to myself because I remember citing it a couple times previously but I never remember: this was from the Hidden Dossier, right?

[ember storm]

hidden reviewing themselves and putting their leader in the top 1%

[placid ridge]

Can someone explain to me why the Drifter is collecting so many damn motes?

[trim grotto]

Actually, no. While we know roughly how he gets them to form, we don't truly know what he's doing with them, other than them being for some of his doomsday prep plans.

[raw hazel]

You could say

he's really banking on them

[pliant widget]

@trim grotto because skimmers grind using colors matching subclass, does that imply non paracasual people cannot grind

(and that the faction who developed the tech must have loyal guardians, or if they discovered it whoever made it did)

[trim grotto]

they were "guardian supremacists" so that is a reasonable conclusion

[pliant widget]

oh

[trim grotto]

but as for the first half
i think that's just flavour

[pliant widget]

i just knew about the attempted coup

[trim grotto]

sparrows are fine to use, after all, and the tech is essentially the same

[pliant widget]

well yeah but grinding is clearly special

not just normal boosts

since skimmers have normal hover/boost

[trim grotto]

True, but we really can't say for sure. However...

[pliant widget]

on the edge of my seat

[trim grotto]

A non paracausal really shouldn't use it anyway because they'd probably die

[pliant widget]

i mean is it any different to any other extreme sport

[trim grotto]

I will point out the existence of Cloudstrider skimmers though

[pliant widget]

yeah but thats different tech

our skimmers cant go up (while grinding)

and that would imply this faction either knew about neomuna somehow, or in the time since connection got their hands on tech from them

[devout nimbus]

Well

They can

[pliant widget]

since neomuna is isolationists i doubt the second

[devout nimbus]

Actually nvm you gotta stop grinding first/it cancels the grind

[placid ridge]

thanks

[pliant widget]

yeah hence my wording

[trim grotto]

I would assume that's a break between gameplay and lore but my main take is that I wouldn't assume that paracausality is required instead of just some cool visual flavour

Which isn't to say it isn't the case

[pliant widget]

on the topic of visual flavor, why do so many stasis emotes use “hologram stasis”

[trim grotto]

Why do any of our emotes use hologram anything

[pliant widget]

no no

we use actual light effects

why not actual dark effects

[trim grotto]

maybe because you don't need the DLC to get the emotes haha

[pliant widget]

(i assume we have normal strand emotes, do we? i don’t remember any)

[empty fern]

Dark emotes? We got that, back in beyond light

[pliant widget]

yes

[trim grotto]

Anyway there's no real answer here Ivo
It's just emotes being emotes

[grim kite]

Why doesn't the Witness just use its pyramid ships to like... stomp on top of the Tower or something? Aren't these ships somewhat indestructible?

[trim grotto]

Because it wants to toy with us. To chip away at our hope. It's a cruel being, and that cruelty is actively making it more inefficient.

[grim kite]

At this point its almost like they want us to defeat it XD

[dim minnow]

it's like a psychological thing

the Witness desperately needs to have its beliefs vindicated

it feels that making species blessed by the Traveler suffer does this

kind of reminds me of a book I read a long time ago where the main villain was injected with a virus that gave him crippling OCD resulting in him being unable to work towards his evil plan until he satisfies his OCD which is the form of completing a collection of particular crayons

[grim kite]

Ah I see, yeah that does make sense.

[light stratus]

The Vex are canna scary

[chrome fog]

Yes

[shadow crypt]

Who is Dredgen Yor?

[trim grotto]

oh that's a fun one

[modern lodge]

Tell me some interesting lore mael

Anything

Even the niche stuff

Go fucking wild

[fast tapir]

oh thats a decent one

[shadow crypt]

Ty

[modern lodge]

Oooh thats cool

Paracasual energy pumping through the walls

Does it give it any effect in away way or is that too ambitious

[trim grotto]

It's information pulled from a forgotten piece of idle dialogue so there's not a lot to go off of

[modern lodge]

Righto

[blazing wasp]

Pipes.mp3 has this weird ominous aura to it with the name

"Go fucking wild"
"Pipes.mp3"

[modern lodge]

[ember storm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbqYPBOJ7Lk

[chrome fog]

[trim grotto]

thanks

[fast tapir]

😭

[pseudo karma]

Is sloane going to kill xivu? Something about a challenge accepted idk wasn't paying enough attention

[chrome fog]

She’s tired

She deserves time to take a nap

We kill Xivu

Probably

The end conclusion for Deep was that Sloane has done everything she could as Deputy Commander even whilst under the duress of being stranded on a Taken planetary body; she deserves time to recuperate and recover, something Zavala and much of the Vanguard leadership could learn about considering everyone places such heavy responsibilities for the future in their shoulders

The other conclusion was that the Witness is a punkass bitch who’s going on a millennia spanning tantrum because the Traveler would talk to them, and we should probably ask Savathun how the hell we get through the portal to stop its plans

[exotic cloak]

Witness when no meaning:

[empty fern]

Indeed

[fresh zephyr]

Whats the lore about the shattered throne place?

[jagged badge]

It’s Mara Sov’s Throne World, corrupted

[empty fern]

By oryx

Or riven
Or both

[fresh zephyr]

So who did it?

[exotic cloak]

Oryx, or Riven, or both

[fast tapir]

one of those answers

[ember storm]

Oryx

[pseudo karma]

Riven through oryx

[empty fern]

At the same time

[chrome fog]

Oryx specifically

Went to see where bits of his Throneworld went, saw what Mara built through wishing Riven to make a Throneworld (the wishwall prevented her from twisting Mara’s wishes), wrecked the place, then Took Riven

[obtuse ferry]

What exactly is the "upended" capable of?

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Probably kill the entire solar system

Maybe

We dunno

[obtuse ferry]

Do you think we will ever get to see since rhulk is dead?

[chrome fog]

Nope

[empty fern]

His remains died to a sparrow

But when did sparrows have the power to be an almost nuke level bomb

[chrome fog]

Because why would we set off the nuke in our backyard for shits and giggles? (Maybe if we put it in an isolated part of space; but otherwise it’s not a smart idea to try and set off the Upended when we spent a whole raid trying to stop it going off)

[obtuse ferry]

So we have a weapon possibly capable of wiping out everything as we know it and it is just sitting in the throne world?

That's funny

[ember storm]

pretty sure it was the smuggler just carrying/using weird shit

[raw hazel]

I mean it's not like we can move it

[ember storm]

or an intentional self destruct to erase evidence

[empty fern]

Smuggler? Thought it was a hidden

[ember storm]

the tab is never brought up again and they specifically had to steal it

and it wasn’t like Rhulk’s corpse pieces

it was the vine stuff

[empty fern]

Ohh

Wait what

Damnit byf

[ember storm]

you got bug’s

[obtuse ferry]

What if that titan (the one who could punch mountains to move them) punched it?

[ember storm]

complain to him the next time you see him

[empty fern]

Fei?

[ember storm]

she’s dead

like majorly dead

[empty fern]

There’s your answer

[obtuse ferry]

Wasn't her name like wei something

Wei ning?

That sounds right

[empty fern]

Oh not lin fei?

[ember storm]

who

[empty fern]

Fighting lion that punch mountains

[shadow crypt]

Wei fing

Wei feng

I forget

[obtuse ferry]

It is wei ning

[chrome fog]

Dead

I think she died in the Great Disaster, when we sent as many guardians as possible against Crota; Eriana-3’s Hellmouth Fireteam was sent as a response to this failures Eriana specifically vowing to avenge her lover

And yes, that Eriana like the exotic hand canon

[empty fern]

Dundun DUUUUUN

[ember storm]

you know how long it took me to figure out the reason for Eriana’s Vow being the seasonal exotic for undying

an embarrassingly long time

[spiral crane]

Why didn’t the witness make oryx a disciple

[jagged badge]

Is it because Eriana was undy-

Wait

[chrome fog]

Because he served his purpose as a puppet without needing the disciple position

[exotic cloak]

Imagine Calus actually being a Disciple and becoming more important than you

[raw hazel]

I wouldn’t say “more important”

They were all ultimately just pawns and tools

[empty fern]

He just happen to be there

[thorny scarab]

Who is this Lisbon-13 fellow? I’ve seen them brought up in both Ghosts of The Deep armor and in Garden of Salvation weapons an armor

As a side note, what is the lore of the Garden of Salvation weapons and armor?

And as a side-side note, why did Rasputin aim and fire his warsats at Titan?

[shadow warren]

Lisbon was a guardian in a fireteam that entered the black garden

P sure he was a hunter

Fireteam was called kentarch 3. It’s also mentioned in some raid lore

The other 2 members died after succumbing to darkness but I think Lisbon is part of the hidden now. He was the only one who didn’t turn

Can’t answer the other two lol. Rasputin had a reason for preventing colony ships from leaving titan but I forget what that was

[ember storm]

Oryx, and the hive as a whole were meant to just serve as killing machines indirectly furthering the witness’ goals

Savathun was the only one that genuinely piqued its interest and had potential

Xivu is/was just used because she was desperate and had armies at her disposal, not because she’s personally valuable

[thorny scarab]

Poor lisbon

Hunters seem to have a knack for surviving raids as the only one of three

I’m glad he seemingly is doing better

[thorny scarab]

Oooof

[next bobcat]

Idk if this is where I should be asking this lol
Need help coming up with a name for a certain darkness-aligned entity

[shadow warren]

Who’s the guy in charge of the pvp sandbox

Whatever their name is

[next bobcat]

[eager trout]

...NPCs have their name above their head

Who invented Conditional Finality and why does it work?

Also, I found a statue on Savathun's Throne World that is covered in cobwebs with the color of Prismatic

[next bobcat]

Send image

That seems weird

Probably a coincidence

[smoky rose]

He actually had to kill Rekkana (the warlock) and Yardarm-4 (the Titan)

They all went crazy in there, the Witness basically tried to bribe them with darkness + divinity

Read the lore tabs attached to the Garden of Salvation armor for all 3 classes

They tell different angles of the story

The Cloak of Temptation is the final confrontation

[eager trout]

It's in the area called Curtain something

[next bobcat]

Ok

But

Can you send a screenshot?

Idk if I’ve seen this before

[empty fern]

What we looking for

[next bobcat]

Prismatic coloured cobwebs

In savathuns throne world

In a statue

[modern lodge]

There are coloured webbing but it's just light

Or light infused

[ember storm]

it’s called the color pink

[shadow warren]

Find me the PvP sandbox npc please

[eager trout]

Don't you mean Shaxx?

[shadow warren]

No

Pvp sandbox = pvp balancing system

Ie something bungie employees do

[thorny scarab]

By divinity, do you mean actual divinity, as in godliness, or Divinity, the beam gun

in any case, if they all went crazy, how did lisbon get out of there?

[smoky rose]

Divinity the beam gun

He killed the other two and then bugged out

[dim minnow]

Rekkana saw a vision of Lisbon with the weapon

she was part of an exiled Warlock Order called the Chronochrons

or something like that

ok it was the Cryptochrons

[thorny scarab]

So... warlocks can see the future?

[dim minnow]

ehh

[thorny scarab]

Aww man. How did they even get to the garden in the first place

[dim minnow]

they flew a ship through a gate

maybe the one on the Moon, we know they took the same path we did in GoS

[thorny scarab]

That sounds like an idiot moon

*move

[smoky rose]

Well if it works now you have a ship on the other side

[thorny scarab]

so they eventually ended up at the big giant lake, Lisbon killed the other two (with div i presume), and then he just...was stuck there?

[smoky rose]

No, he ran tf away

Got back out through the portal he came in from

[thorny scarab]

ah

[smoky rose]

Confessed to the hidden and became an agent

[dim minnow]

Lisbon felt that they shouldn't have the power the Witness gave them, so he killed Yardam and Rekkana

I believe Yardam was killed by a grenade and Rekkana with Divinity

[smoky rose]

Rekkana and Yardarm's body were never found

[dim minnow]

not exactly what happened

[smoky rose]

Ys

[smoky rose]

Correct

[thorny scarab]

Yeah, but how useful is that when youre in a hostile area filled to the brim with enemies looking to shoot the ship down, and you are somewhere in unknown space

[smoky rose]

Well you can simply go high

[dim minnow]

after Lisbon killed his fireteam, he tried to kill his own Ghost

[thorny scarab]

Why?

[smoky rose]

Anyways please let the Witness make their reanimated bodies a boss in something

That would be slick

[dim minnow]

he chased her until he encountered the Witness who took the form of himslf (like it did with us at the end of Shadowkeep)

[dim minnow]

guilt and such

[thorny scarab]

that makes little sense but aight

[thorny scarab]

then he jsut ran away?

[next bobcat]

hey - would the witness ever just straight up kill a planet?

[dim minnow]

when he met with the Witness, he wanted to forget what happened, so the Witness wiped his memory of the events and took away his ghost's ability to speak

[thorny scarab]

probably

[next bobcat]

for what reason?

[thorny scarab]

i dunno, something something final shape

no pain no death no life

[next bobcat]

what would motivate it to just kill an entire species on a certain planet?

[dim minnow]

it is then presumed that he was found or was sent out of the Black Garden

[thorny scarab]

well, it was nice of it to wipe his memory ig, but did he have to do that to his ghost?

of

oh

[next bobcat]

i mean rhulk single-handedly genocided his whole race

[thorny scarab]

i dunno, evil

which the witness is

so uh, yeh

[next bobcat]

i don't think it's evil, more just has goals that we percieve as evil

[thorny scarab]

Yes, which makes it evil (to us)

[next bobcat]

ok

[dim minnow]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/dark-glass#book-inspiral

[thorny scarab]

also, the witness wants reality to be a simplistic, unchanging world right?

[raw hazel]

I would call multiple genocides because of ultimately (imo) petty reasons to be pretty evil

[thorny scarab]

indeed

[dim minnow]

at this point, I'm not even sure if even the Witness knows what the Final Shape is supposed to be

[thorny scarab]

ah

i thought his whole thing was wanting everything to be calcified and final and stuff

never to change or be different

[dim minnow]

well yeah, calcifying the universe is described as what it intends to do

[thorny scarab]

So... The Witness is just the antagonist of The Lego Movie!

[thorny scarab]

Poor ghostie

[raw hazel]

Stasis kragle confirmed???

[eager trout]

Today I learned Rohan died in an in-game cutscene

Not even a CGI cutscene

So now you're telling me the only Cloudstrider Neomuna has to protect it is the newbie?

At least that explains why Nimbus delegates everything onto us

[trim grotto]

Correct

[eager trout]

The newbie who can't even fight two Cabal while Rohan defeated a Tormentor with a single shot that wasn't even direct.

[chrome fog]

It's fairly blatant the Witness is evil across multiple levels and is willing to put others in the way whilst also not putting in all its own effort.

[trim grotto]

Nimbus can pretty easily fight two Cabal

[next bobcat]

ok

[chrome fog]

He dies in the mission. YOu get to see him die! As you lay crawling on the ground because you don't have a handle on Strand yet

[eager trout]

Not even a CGI cutscene

[trim grotto]

CGI isn't always better

[chrome fog]

It's more compelling because you literally get to see it happen in front of you

[trim grotto]

And struggle to try and stop it

[chrome fog]

LIterally get to crawl around and suffer as you can't even jump, or even walk fast

[eager trout]

Ok, I guess that makes it better

But does he at least do something cool before he dies?

[chrome fog]

Play the campaign. Or watch it.

It's definitely cool comparatively

[eager trout]

Ok

Now, what exactly is Nimbus trying to do in the introduction cutscene?

("Fighting" the Cabal by pushing them with the hoverboard)

[trim grotto]

Showboating mostly

Nimbus gets more serious after Rohan dies

[eager trout]

You can't exactly show off by doing nothing

[chrome fog]

For example, they gets pretty far into the Black Garden in the Deterministic Chaos mission

On their own

Chasing their mentor's research notes

[eager trout]

Who goes where in what-

[trim grotto]

Don't look too much into it

[chrome fog]

Play the game! You'll eventually understand everything that's happening (mostly)

[eager trout]

Btw, does the Witness refer to itself as "we" in English? Because I think it does in Spanish.

[trim grotto]

I'm assuming you mean Nimbus here

[trim grotto]

It does

[dim minnow]

I believe the proper terminology to use is pre-rendered cutscene

[eager trout]

Yeah, that

[dim minnow]

or in-game rendered cutscene

Rohan's death wasn't a cutscene

[eager trout]

The Witness: "We"

Everyone: "Who is WE?"

[trim grotto]

I don't think anyone had confusion about that

[dim minnow]

it's entire species (the ones who weren't killed off)

I figured the Witness was some sort of egregore entity for a long time

[chrome fog]

Thanks for catching my mistake

[eager trout]

In-universe, there was probably someone who was confused about that at first, probably among the first ones the Witness contacted

[next bobcat]

yeah what the hell is egregore?

[chrome fog]

Paracausal fungus; a rudimentary understanding of what is does is that it allows you get insight into another's mind

[next bobcat]

also, Shaxx calls the witness "He" in one of his dialogues

[chrome fog]

We use a coral with similar properties to strength the connection between Ahsa and Sloane's mind so that Ahsa can speak to us through Sloane

[chrome fog]

Which one

[dim minnow]

not that

[next bobcat]

one of the brave weapons after you complete the quest and he gives you the masterworked variant

[chrome fog]

Darn

[next bobcat]

that dialogue i forgor whch one

[trim grotto]

So does Fynch but it isn't correct
The Witness is a collective species amalgamated into one being
It's an... it. It, they, we.

[dim minnow]

An egregore is a concept in Western esotericism of a non-physical entity or thoughtform that arises from the collective thoughts and emotions of a distinct group of individuals.

of course, there is the egregore fungus and egregore coral as seen ingame

but I'm going off of the actual definition of the term

[eager trout]

Unless Shaxx and Fynch can only perceive one specific being among the ones that compose the Witness...

[chrome fog]

Stop that

[dim minnow]

let's just make the safe assumption that them using "he" just means they don't give a shit about the Witness' pronouns

[next bobcat]

yeah

https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/11kndfo/guys_the_veil_egregore_spores_guys/

[trim grotto]

What?

[eager trout]

Idk

[chrome fog]

Eevee trying to be comedic

[eager trout]

Can the Witness control others' perception of it?

I mean, Darkness is all about the mind

[next bobcat]

probably

[trim grotto]

Yes, but I don't like where you're going with this.

[chrome fog]

They just use the wrong pronouns there's nothing deeper

Don't dig into this

[eager trout]

Do you know where I'm going?

[next bobcat]

i mean sav's worm thing

[chrome fog]

We already got on you about the cat theory

[trim grotto]

I'm a little concerned that it's going anywhere at all.

[dim minnow]

my scrapbook?

[raw hazel]

Ominous

[next bobcat]

brawl stars

[chrome fog]

Sav's worm didn't do jack shit; Sav conjoured her disguse as Osiris through her own magic abilities

And isn't even remotely the same thing

[exotic cloak]

I mean, we literally see them fighting more than two cabal

[chrome fog]

*Them

[exotic cloak]

Thanks, I always forget

[next bobcat]

three whole legionaries!

[raw hazel]

It happens

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

Hello Nexus

[empty fern]

Hello bion

I was gonna pester you with something yesterday but I forgot

[chrome fog]

Darn

[exotic cloak]

Weren't like five in that scene when them puch them with their whatever the fuck are those skateboards

[empty fern]

Or was it the day before

[chrome fog]

They slash one

[chrome fog]

Real moments

[next bobcat]

what was the witness's home planet called?

[empty fern]

(Anyways I’m out, watching owl house so byyyyeeee)

[chrome fog]

We don't know

[trim grotto]

No name

[next bobcat]

garden?

[trim grotto]

No, a garden was a term used by the species

[next bobcat]

ok then

[chrome fog]

(enjoooooy, I can't pay for Disney+, capitalism sucks)

[empty fern]

https://youtu.be/Z0CKckjryVI?si=yunEUwuuv0sC0vhA

[next bobcat]

seen it 100 times

lmao

[eager trout]

Where I'm going is that everyone except stronger beings and special cases like the Guardian may perceive the Witness differently. As far as we know, before the part where the Witness opens the portal and enters the Traveler, the only ones who had seen it in its true form are Eramis, Calus, and some of its other followers. The Guardian had seen the Witness before but in the form of, well, the Guardian. So what if the Witness makes everyone see it differently (or even as themselves) to throw them off?

But I guess the most likely explanation is that Shaxx and Fynch don't know anything about the Witness nor care.

[next bobcat]

developing this fanfic idea of a darkness entity created by leftover darkness energy from when the witness and the pyramids left their home planet - feasable?

[chrome fog]

We saw its true form, everyone saw its true form when it was floating in space in front of the Traveler

[chrome fog]

They used Darkness and ritual sacrifice to meld their conciousnesses into a new entity, not that

[eager trout]

Yeah, that's why I said before that

[chrome fog]

Oh wait

[next bobcat]

everyone except cayde because he's dead lmfao

[eager trout]

Cayde inside the Traveler:

[chrome fog]

Nvm that is an interesting fanfic idea; could maybe use that one witness species individual that survived the sacrifice in Entelechy

[next bobcat]

considering this is the sketch i did, maybe not lol

[eager trout]

Wouldn't it make more sense for that thing to stab the chest, where the heart is?

[empty fern]

Reminds me of a transformers plot

[eager trout]

Because what is it stabbing there-?

[next bobcat]

the spear wasn't a stabbing, it keeps it there. it uses the spear in the second phase (its a raid boss)

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

In Japan, the spirit is believed to reside in an orb in the gut; could illicit the same imagery and messaging

[empty fern]

Oh no, qi cores

[next bobcat]

still - it's mainly an artistic choice

also this thing doesn't have a heart

[eager trout]

So the spear through the "heart" would be even greater symbolism

[next bobcat]

its a weird darkness being like rhulk (shut up about lubrae) and nezarec

[chrome fog]

That's why the seppuku ritual has the dying individual cut open their stomach and then their compatriot/executor cuts off their head to ensure they don't feel physical pain

[chrome fog]

If you want to draw from that imagery

[empty fern]

Make it a crab

Cause we know crabs are final shape

[chrome fog]

Again, different cultural preconceptions can lead to different artistic choices to illicit the same idea

Whether something is greater or worse imagery depends on an individual basis

[next bobcat]

the lore is sorta based on odin - it stabbed itself to release some of its energy, that it can use to do some weird split timeline stuff

you know how elsie is from an alternate timeline?

[chrome fog]

Could tie it into "releasing" its spirit to explore multiple timelines

[next bobcat]

this guy traveled into the other ones, secretly aided the witness in bringing about the final shape, then just before it happened, confronted the witness and absorbed its power.

other timelines

[chrome fog]

Or the rod piercing through its stomach allows it to resonate its soul/incorporeal being into alternate timelines

[next bobcat]

something like that - right now, after taking the power of 10 final shapes, it's last goal is to confront the guardian of this timeline and wield the light

after which it can break out of its bonds and bring about the final shape upon all timelines

[chrome fog]

Well the Final Shape isn't exactly a thing as it is a concept, but it could still work for killing the Witness in previous timelines; but you're running through really wild power scaling. It would fit more if it killed one Witness and then entered this timeline, as the start of its grand plan

[next bobcat]

that's much better

[chrome fog]

This would be better in #🏆destiny-media if you want to continue brewing ideas

[next bobcat]

it's pretty lore based - and that's basically it

[chrome fog]

But isn't directly the lore of the game

[next bobcat]

true

i think it's good for now

[naive raptor]

Anybody know the lore about Pre-Exo Cayde?

[empty fern]

No

[dim minnow]

he owed a debt to Clovis Bray for damages to a turbine or something while out on a job

[next bobcat]

of course

[naive raptor]

Let me guess Clovis offered to absolve the debt and in return Cayde would become an exo

[devout vine]

Not really a lore question but more of a question in general...
Anyone have any idea what could be motivating Fikrul to continue spreading the influence of the scorn following the event on Warlord's ruin?

[dim minnow]

revenge most likely

also because of his ideals

[devout vine]

We know he's alive...
That much is obviously evident, and the fact that the curse on the DC had actually kept him alive.

But is he still aiming to achieve Crow's favour or is there more to it?
Or is it just vengeance?

[dim minnow]

he believs that anything can be a tool shaped by their wielder

[devout vine]

You reckon his Final Shape episode is a story line for his vengeance?

Or you think the scorn will become more dangerous?

Perhaps new developments in the scorn subtype?

[dim minnow]

unsure

I'm really hoping Bungie builds into him being our antithesis

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/an-evolution-of-faith

[devout vine]

The scorn have already proven to be quite an exponential threat in the system...
Albeit a little more than Taken

They're more unpredictablen and uncontrollable...where controlling taken gives you a definitive force

[chrome fog]

Being the only sapient Scorn is a lonely existence, so why not make some friends and sycophants?

[devout vine]

That's actually true...
From Fikrul's perspective, perhaps his self-proclaimed enlightenment is motivation too....

He wants vengeance for us killing his baron allies...but also "free" other eliksni as he had proclaimed long before

[chrome fog]

I mean he could actually be defined as the only "enlightened" Scorn until now, since he literally has been the only really sentient Scorn until now

[dim minnow]

maybe also to gain power over life and death itself (or Light and Dark)

maybe he will get Prismatic

[chrome fog]

Also, did he say he'd "free" the Eliksni in that "I will make you Scorn" way? I don't remember that being a thing

Just that he wanted his fellow Scorn to be respected as individual beings

[devout vine]

Plus his presence and direction as the leader of the scorn create behavioural changes in many high ranking scorn...

They no longer remain mindless and start to become more intelligent

[dim minnow]

you know, Fikrul was supposed to be in WQ according to the Storyboards

[chrome fog]

There was only bigger, badder Scorn until he seemingly bestowed them intelligence, saying they were "Higher Ranking" would imply they have the sentience to even have a societal structure

[dim minnow]

he even had four staffs

[dim minnow]

his Knights were definitely intelligent to a degree

[chrome fog]

But was that before or after he did whatever process he did that allowed the Scorn to acutally organize themselves in a coherent manner instead of just being mindless, raving revenants?

[dim minnow]

the Buried Bloodline lore entry was not long before we did the dungeon

if I'm correct

maybe it's a gradual thing

[shadow crypt]

Are there any guns in Destiny that are from the future that we use?

[dim minnow]

or the Witness' arrival affected it

[raw hazel]

Technically Elsie's many rifles.

[devout vine]

There is still the possibility of utilising Dark ether in new and innovating ways...

Dovadah said that he hoped Bungo would really make the scorn our Antithesis...

Perhaps they'll find new methods of using dark ether, like we use new methods of shaping our light into new supers

[chrome fog]

Exactly, we have no timeline as to when the Scorn - if we want to be pedantic, under Fikrul's group - were able to gather their minds and actually be sentient

[dim minnow]

NTTE is from the future, past, present, all of the above, and none of the above at the same time

[shadow crypt]

Oh yea

It like opens a portal or whatever

[dim minnow]

NTTE being No Time To Explain

[shadow crypt]

well not exactly

[dim minnow]

also there being four different Timeline analysis variations of it

the one we got in D1 is not the same one we got in D2

and The Stranger's Rifle which we also got in D1 could be another one of those variations

[chrome fog]

And was apparently formerly Elsie's. We have a handful of different versions in D2 currently

[devout vine]

That's honestly my all time favourite lore....
I LOVE Dark Future Lore

[shadow crypt]

Oh wow

I swear I thought elsies rifle and ntte looked familiar

[dim minnow]

did you know that the 3rd Grimoire anthology had an exclusive entry that ws from the Dark Future?

[shadow crypt]

I was using elsies earlier and noticed it

That’s cool

[devout vine]

Which one was it? What was it called?

[dim minnow]

well Elsie's Rifle is a downgraded (or unupgraded depending on which one) version of NTTE

[dim minnow]

I'll see if I can pull it up on Destinypedia

https://www.destinypedia.com/Destiny_Grimoire_Anthology,_Volume_III#Lost_Light

Anthology-exclusive lore entries are one of the few things you can't find on Ishtar

[devout vine]

You know what does sound awesome?
Us beating the witness in the final shape...

Rippling across time and affecting the other futures.
Bearded, lightless Zavala with one leg just uses Thundercrash out of nowhere

[empty fern]

Bearded lightless Zavala with 1 leg

Uses thundercrash out of no where

Do I have to say anything?

[devout vine]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-code-code-of-the-missile-gaming-gif-16310851

[empty fern]

[devout vine]

I'm more of a burning maul enjoyer

Until I play sentinel

Or hammers

Or behemoth

Or berserker

Fuck me....I'm a titan addict

I use to be a hard-core warlock main since d1

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

I play all classes with equal fervor. All their systems are fun to play with.

[empty fern]

Typing continues

[craggy agate]

ok this might be a weird question but this has been a curiosity kinda eating away at me a bit lately

so when taken die they just kinda implode, do we like.. know what happens to them, if anything special? or as far as we know do they just die lmao

[craggy agate]

my bad i type long

[chrome fog]

Disappear; their original form was already torn apart and their molecules stapled together to be "optimized" for the purpose they are best suited for, the Nine (and Drifter) are able to create Faken from gathered dark matter or just random space dust I can't remember what the Faken are made of

[empty fern]

Taken
The husks of former selves
Just kinda explode as the husk is fragile

Same thing

[craggy agate]

ah, that makes a lot of sense actually thank you chat for satiating that curiosity

[craggy agate]

i was kinda wondering where the drifter got taken for gambit lately thank you for explaining that too lmao

[chrome fog]

Its the motes of Darkness he uses to summon - more so lure - Taken into his arenas, in his case I think

[empty fern]

Nah the nine make the faken

[chrome fog]

I know that's what I corrected a little bit

[empty fern]

[eager trout]

Where can we see these...Faken?

[chrome fog]

Prophecy

The dungeon

[eager trout]

Oh, the dungeon where the really annoying mobs never drop the right energy

[chrome fog]

If there's light they drop Light, if they're not lit up they drop Darkness

[eager trout]

Wait what?

They all look the same to me

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/prophecy-destiny2-gif-27284042

Notice the edges of the screen

[chrome fog]

Look around in your environment

[trim grotto]

It entirely depends on where you are standing

[chrome fog]

Literally look if there's a light source around you

[trim grotto]

Look at the edges of the screen for the glow of light or dark, too

That tells you whether you're in shadow or light

The gif above largely shows the light

[chrome fog]

They were evil for making that encounter a floating arena and making the boss of that arena a Taken Phalanx

[raw hazel]

i don't think i've ever noticed that

[eager trout]

I have to do Prophecy on PC with the render quality really low, so I can't really understand what I see

[chrome fog]

I didn't notice the edges of my screen, experimenting with where I killed Taken was enough

Fuck around and find out how mechanics work

[eager trout]

Wait

If you go inside the cave areas they drop Darkness?

And Light if you're outside?

[chrome fog]

There are the little orb lamps around the starting area

If you kill a Taken while standing literally in light you get Light Motes; if you kill a Taken while standing out of the light you get Dark Motes

[trim grotto]

If standing in a shadow
Dark motes

If standing in light
Light motes

That is the mechanic

Doesn't matter where they are, only where you are

[eager trout]

That explains a lot

I figured it had to do with position

But I wasn't sure how

[safe galleon]

what exactly is happening in the mask of bakris lore tab?

it seems to be someone talking to atraks after she becomes an exo(?) but i'm not sure what's actually being referred to in the dialogue. is the 'impostor' the speaker mentions the corpse of her own organic body? are they trying to convince her that she's someone else??

[past glen]

@jolly wind

Beyond light (2020)
darkness shows up on europa and says it can offer power. a fallen named eramis becomes the kell of a new house called salvation which wields the darkness. we kill all of them. raid opens up the deep stone crypt (where exos are made) and clovis bray comes back

Season of the Hunt
uldren sov comes back as crow. xivu arath does a bit of trolling and starts posessing various ppl around the tangled shore. Osiris' ghost Sagira dies and osiris loses the light. literally dont remember what else happened bc this season was dogshit

Season of the Chosen
Daughter of Calus Caital shows up in system and makes an armistice with zavala. Psion rebels almost kill zavala and crow gets unmasked and zavala accepts him

Season of the Splicer
A fallen (eliksni) named Mithrax who we've seen before actually on titan comes back and starts a new house called House of Light. Focuses mainly on the eliksni being more accepted by humanity and starting to move into the city. Turns out Osiris has been posessed by savathun and tricks lakshmi-2 (Future war cult lady) into starting a vex invasion in the old sotp boss room. Best cutscene ever at the end

Season of the Lost
We work to get savathun's worm out for reasons i can't actually remember. Xivu tries to invade and capter sav but we get it out. Osiris is ok now

Witch Queen (2022)
The traveler gives savathun the light. The hive now have guardians and the light. Sav kidnaps the traveler into her throne world to protect it from the pyramid ships. We get it back, sav tells us the witness is coming. The witness is actually the being behind the pyramid ships that we've seen. We also meet one of the witness' disciples, Rhulk and beat him in his pyramid ship. Rhulk kicks very hard.

Season of the Risen
We're interrogating hive guardians for some reason. Crow feels bad and pulls the plug on the machine, killing one of Caital's friends. She pissed and demands blood, so saladin offers. He joins Caital's war council and gets promoted basically instantly

Season of the Haunted
The leviathan shows up and starts making nightmares. Everyone has to deal with PTSD

Season of the Plunder
Pirates. Looting. Find all of Nezerac's relics.

Season of the Seraph
Holy shit this is the best thing since chosen. Xivu arath is tryna invade so we upload clovis bray into an exo and try to resurrect rasputin after mars went poof. Turns out using the warsats is gonna summon a giant army from the ascendant plane so xivu can invade. No one knows what to do. At the end the traveler mysteriously fucking leaves the city. Eramis shows up and tries to hijack the warsats to shoot the traveler down. Ana pulls the plug and rasputin dies but the warsats are disabled. Traveler now hangs in orbit and is the D1 promo art

Lightfall (2023?)
Battle in orbit over earth. Witness manages to touch the traveler and finds something on neptune. It's called the veil and is basically the darkness equivalent of the traveler. We try to stop the w itness from accessing the veil and learn a new darkness ability called strand. Turns out the darkness is the element of emotion and thoughts and fate whereas the light is reality (i think). We fail to stop the witness but also kill calus whos now become a disciple. the witness cuts a hole in the traveler and goes inside.

Season of the Deep
Hey remember that worm on titan? We're talking to it now. Sloane is back and is the intermediary. We find out that the witness is actually an ancient traveler blessed civilization merged into one being and is trying to link the veil and the traveler to invoke the final shape. Also the hive tried to rez oryx as a guardian

Season of the Witch
How to get rid of xivu arath: Step 1. Turn eris into a fucking hive god. Step 2. Tithe stuff to her. Step 3. Get immaru to rez savathun so eris can kil her, then use the power to cut xivu off f rom the throne world. Also we see that t here's a pattern in Savathun's wings and that leads us to wish 15 (follow the witness into the traveler). Eris also rejects the sword logic. Savathun leaves then is promptly spawnkilled by saint 14 at least 10 times

Season of the Wish
talking to riven's ghost. She says she can grant wish 15. but to do that we gotta find all of her uncorrupted eggs. we do that and find out they were scattered by riven's mate who is officially one of the bois. Crow and mara have a cosmic connection so since only 1 person can go thru the wish 15 portal he does. now we wait so osiris can use the veil to forge a connection we can go thru. now we're just waiting for tfs

[trim grotto]

Bakris is convincing Atraks-1 to destroy her own original body as a crude method of overcoming her DER.

[marsh spire]

What constintuetes for something to be Taken?

[trim grotto]

Are you asking how Taking happens or are you asking about the state something must be in to be Taken?

[marsh spire]

Both, curious on Taken

[shadow warren]

Who was bakris?

What was their significance

[jagged badge]

She’s just another member of House Salvation. We kill her in that Cosmodrome lost sector part of the campaign

She was sent there to show the power of Stasis to the Devils there to recruit to Salvation iirc

And then as Mael said, she was there trying to help Atraks with her DER

[shadow warren]

Oh that was her lol

Neat

[velvet flax]

Theres definitely some 'time skip' from the cutscene where Eramis tells Atraks to go to the Crypt to the next part of the Beyond Light campaign where we go to the Cosmodrome and kill Bakris

[torn iris]

who are the piramides

[jagged badge]

The Pyramids of the Black Fleet are simply just ships controlled by the Witness or used by its Disciples

[torn iris]

who are the witness

[jagged badge]

The Witness is the main villain of this saga of Destiny. It has chased the Traveler for eons and eons, slaughtering worlds and peoples, or twisting them as it did the Hive

It is currently trying to achieve its Final Shape, which is pretty much just the end of the universe

[exotic cloak]

Is pretty easy to miss her tbh

Is just a random House Of Salvation mini boss

[jagged badge]

She had a cool name though

Bakris the Adamantine

[exotic cloak]

Indeed

[gentle geyser]

Fallen bosses on their way to having the most badass designs and names only to be cannon fodder

[shadow warren]

Where does the whisper mission take place

Is it just somewhere on io

[fast tapir]

yeah

funny how it loads you into nessus when you launch it now though lmao

[shadow warren]

Ig cause io isn’t in the game anymore

Needed somewhere else to put it

[gentle pendant]

It is

The io opening is literally in game

[blazing wasp]

It used to take place on IO, but its like some dream thing now

as for like, gameplay reasons, i imagine it was possible to just import that lost sector, and not hte destination

[ember storm]

so is the Dreadnaught, Mercury, Titan, and Mars

also nine space

but they’re not in the game

[exotic cloak]

No one cares if planet is here or not

Let me play

No one is questioning Crucible and Gambit maps being pretty much warzones or planets taken by darkness

[empty fern]

Shhhh

Simulations

[exotic cloak]

No they are not for some reason we are actually on them

You remember that time when we killed ourselves like mad gods in the throne world when at any moment some hive knights could appear and take our light?

[chrome fog]

Nope. Simulations.

[exotic cloak]

Didn't we had this discussion like a month ago

Anyway, there's any book I can check for that

[chrome fog]

Shaxx I think talks about it in a dialogue or some rogue lore tab somewhere; plus we still have access to simulation technology since we’re still able to go to the Lighthouse every time we complete a Trials card

[exotic cloak]

I mean thats what we discussed that day, theres no dialogues that mention simulations

And dont remeber who but told me that the places where crucible happen are secured by the vanguard

And I was saying it was a better idea just add a single dialogue of shaxx saying "crucible simulations are having some trouble lately" or something like that, and pretty much make a joke about bugs and explain al those weird maps

[raw hazel]

It was a blurb from Saint-14. I distinctly remember because it was right at the start of Beyond Light to explain why we could still have maps taking place on the planets Taken by the Witness. IIRC based on Vex simulation tech from Osiris.

[jagged badge]

Cursory search has found this

"I will. Long enough to show you how to implement the simulation; but tonight, I must disembark," Osiris says.```

[dawn escarp]

Lore-wise does anyone think it's strange that enemy (witness) factions could ever use strand?

[raw hazel]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/interactions/saint-14-the-coming-trials

Managed to find the blurb too

[jagged badge]

Why’s that?

[exotic cloak]

Damn

Thanks

I was using pretty much just the word simulation to look for that

[dawn escarp]

Well Osiris mentions that to wield Strand, you need a change of perspective, to let go. I don't see any faction affiliated with the Witness doing that. It's also hinted that the Veil has It's own will, and wouldn't grant them the abilities of Strand

[trim grotto]

It doesn't have to give them anything. It isn't involved in that interaction.

[dawn escarp]

I know, but for what little we do know about the Veil, it's autonomy may suggest it opposes the Witness.

[trim grotto]

I can't say I agree. I don't see anything that it has done that exists in opposition.
Regardless, it is irrelevant. The Veil does not provide nor guard Strand, it is not a distributed power.

The Weave was made visible due to the force of the Veil, and we took and wielded it as Strand, but the Weave does not originate from the Veil.

[dawn escarp]

There was one line that may be a throw-away. But the Veil was described as reaching out.

More importantly, I don't see anything aligned with the Witness having the perspective that using strand requires. Stasis, and the control over everything it entails, is absolutely in-character for them.

[exotic cloak]

There isn't a Shadow Legion troop that has like a green aura?

What are those doing?

[raw hazel]

Just vibing

[exotic cloak]

So bros can't be Spiderman like us

[raw hazel]

At the same time at point you do have to remember that Destiny is also first and foremost a game. They often do to make things are lore friendly as possibly but there’s always going to be some incongruence because sometimes a thing is the way it is because it’s a video game.

Lore explanations are always nice but sometimes there just won’t be any because it’s like that for mechanical reasons.

[exotic cloak]

I know

The discussion I mentioned was pretty much that

That why I was saying adding a small dialogue was a nice idea but I see that dialogue already exist

[chrome fog]

Their malleability and willingness to allow their minds to follow the Witness’ commands could arguably follow the “Flow” necessary to have a better handle on Strand. Or just like Mael is trying to say, they could just be better equipped to manipulate the Weave for their own purposes

The Psions are a species that demonstrate greater psychic aptitude and Nezarec as well

And the Weave is an underlying psychic fabric connecting the universe

[sharp osprey]

https://youtu.be/aA9oSO-HLQw?si=vweN5RLkDWg4zxhA i know this is a super old video and all that, but are there any relevant lore things here?

I assume its about rasputin and exo body horror stuff

I know its been confirmed to be fanmade, but its the first public use of the tricorn and its from 2011. I atleast think it was made by a bungie ex-employee or something

[raw hazel]

All fake, alas.

[sharp osprey]

Its probably an artifact of the early version of D1's story, that was much more Rasputin focused

Still, its nuts that the first recorded public use of the Destiny tricorn logo in history is in a random creepy ARG youtube video

Also, the channel name is joyeuse7, Joyeuse being the mythical sword used by Charlemagne

[raw hazel]

It's all fake. It plagiarizes an older Bungie.net forum thread that was speculating on the nature of Bungie's various past franchises such Halo, Marathon, etc. Which you can find here: https://web.archive.org/web/20100814204728/http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715

[sharp osprey]

Interesting

So some superfan took that massive post and made a creepy video using the new bungie game logo

[jagged badge]

Woah who’s that Sarsion fella

[raw hazel]

I've talked with one of the guys that actually was in this thread- The Tricorn itself is in there because some early Destiny t-shirts were out in circulation somehow around 2010/2011. So this joyeuse fella just yoinked worked that wasn't their own and just made some creepypasta thing.

[raw hazel]

no idea never heard of 'em

[sharp osprey]

Thats disappointing that its plagiarism

[raw hazel]

Yeah

[sharp osprey]

Its a cool video

[raw hazel]

While it's interesting at first glance, it's unfortunately a load of bull

[sharp osprey]

It ironically has a good amount of relevance to more current lore

[jagged badge]

Their name sounds familiar to me but I can’t quite place it

[raw hazel]

Alas, the world may never know...

[sharp osprey]

Like the crucified exo dude looks like season of the seraph kinda

Well thanks for the info though! It was really bizarre at first glance

[raw hazel]

Oh yeah no worries, always happy to help

I've been relatively quiet in the channel as I'm finally catching up on all the lore i missed

About to read the second CE lorebook but

https://i.gyazo.com/a06528149a2d63e3442de7350c577ecd.png

As a Laghari stan this is my favorite part of the whole thing

[sharp osprey]

Could you imagine if in TFS we get the sword thats on our grave and its called Joyeuse lol

[raw hazel]

I mean I wouldn't be mad I alwayed like the look of that sword

[jagged badge]

Did you see the lore from one of the seasons/events last year when Quinn flirts with Ikora too?

[raw hazel]

I DID NOT

you must link me

[sharp osprey]

I'm part of the camp that says we die in the last mission of TFS

[raw hazel]

I feel that makes no sense since we uh

keep playing afterwards

[sharp osprey]

Yeah thats the main problem lol

[jagged badge]

"Sheesh, buy me a drink first, Terran."

Ikora stammered.

"I'm kidding," Quinn chuckled. "I'll start the queries—"```

[raw hazel]

Quinn my beloved...

[sharp osprey]

But i think its been confirmed that the last mission for the campaign will only unlock after the raid race is done

[jagged badge]

Aye

[eager trout]

Why didn't Neomuna do anything to help during the Dark Ages?

Rohan is kinda rude to the Guardian and Osiris despite everything that happened on Earth that he somehow knew about

[jagged badge]

They were going to. They came to Earth and everything. But then they saw the extent of what the Warlords were doing across the globe and feared the Warlords could conquer Neomuna too

[ember storm]

remember there are only ever 2 cloudstriders in existence at once

[jagged badge]

So Stargazer erased Rasputin’s records of Neomuna/Exodus Indigo and such and they left

[raw hazel]

And they were also contending with the Vex on the homefront

With all that in mind, imo, it's not all that surprising that they decided to keep their heads down

[ember storm]

plus it’s not like neomuna is the only one

there’s that whole pacifist colony out there

and whatever you want to make of Jovians

[raw hazel]

Aye, and given the Neomuni impression of Lightbearers were the Dark Age Warlords... Again yeah, it's not terribly surprising they kept their heads down

[eager trout]

THE SITH

[modern lodge]

Erm 🤓

[jagged badge]

[spiral trellis]

I wonder if i have enough for final shape...

Shit

What I do?

[jagged badge]

Wrong channel my guy

[spiral trellis]

Also, where do the tormentors come from?

[jagged badge]

According to Osiris they’re the fruits of the Witness’ collaboration with Calus

Beyond that I don’t think we really know much

We can infer they may be connected to Nezarec in some form

[spiral trellis]

Maybe the witness formed a alliance with nezarec, it being a form of destruction

[jagged badge]

Nezarec was a Disciple so…yeah

[spiral trellis]

Please tell me we pulling up like the avatar on the witness and use all the supers

[modern lodge]

Not at you Eris at ikora saying erm

[jagged badge]

Ah

[chrome fog]

Are you excited for Prismatic then?

[raw hazel]

Only the Guardian, wielder of all five elements…

[fast tapir]

ikora really hit the "erm 🤓"

aint no way

[fossil niche]

what is the black garden?

[dim minnow]

alternate reality

[modern lodge]

Isn't it on a different dimension rather than a whole alt reality

[dim minnow]

that would be more like the Ascendant Plane

[eager trout]

https://youtu.be/E6QFg7te7eE?si=_rAZYtdpL5thDVQL

Something something lore

Also, what's the Shattered Throne? Apart from insufferably annoying to complete

[dim minnow]

Mara Sov's Throne World

corrupted by Oryx

[trim grotto]

Queen Mara Sov's Throne World, Eleusinia

[dim minnow]

and left to rot

[trim grotto]

Crafted with Wish Magic from Riven

[eager trout]

Why would Mara have a throne world with such a complicated layout?

I've tried it like 7 times and two of them I died by falling

[trim grotto]

Throne Worlds are formed by and after the mind of the owner. Mara is complex and full of secrets, and so too is Eleusinia.

Plus, of course, Oryx Shattered it.

[dull raft]

man being broke is canon to the lore real

[sharp osprey]

So uh, who do we think's gonna die in final shape lol

[tired lava]

Chat so just to make sure

Dredgen Yor is actually a Titan

right

[tired lava]

Cayde

[raw hazel]

Dredgen Yor was a Titan, yes

[tired lava]

So he was a Titan but people just thought he was a Hunter right?

[past glen]

Yes ~~bc hunters are toxic ~~

[raw hazel]

Earlier on people thought he was a Hunter because of the Cloak of Dregden Yor class item for Hunters back in D1

But he was always a Titan

[tired lava]

thanks for info

[raw hazel]

You are most welcome

[pure tree]

since Mara says that the curse on the dreaming city is irreversible, does that mean the shattered throne will remain shattered forever?

[blazing wasp]

The shattered throne didnt become corrupted through the curse, oryx messed it up iirc

[shadow crypt]

Did the Witness ever recruit Oryx to become a disciple?

[trim grotto]

No

[trim grotto]

While I am fairly sure the Throne World isn't bound by the curse, the damage is still considered irreparable.
With this insight, you did something marvelous. Your throne world, your Eleusinia, is a testament to your will, to your Techeuns' skills, and to Riven's delight. Sadly, its desecration is, to our knowledge, irreparable. I am certain it was once beautiful.

[analog torrent]

Although they assert that their Thorns have been cleansed of any influence of the Darkness, the Shadows of Yor have begun exhibiting increasingly strange behavior,[2] including ignoring objectives in the Crucible and killing other Guardians during matches seemingly for the pleasure of killing.

Are people that ignore the objective in pvp discount Shadows of Yor lol

[modern lodge]

The solar constructs like golden gun and the hammer and the dawnblade if a regular person held them would their arm just not be an arm anymore

[jagged badge]

Crow lets Eris hold his Golden Gun in one lore entry

Same kinda logic how Ikora can just throw a Nova Bomb into the mix in that Splicer cutscene and it only harms the Vex

We decide who it affects

[ember storm]

Saint’s blinding ward of dawn picking and choosing is also canon

[jagged badge]

Yea

[analog torrent]

What the hell happemed in Bamberga?

[empty fern]

Bamberga happened

[ember storm]

never heard of it

[naive raptor]

Speaking of Saint I never really got his full story. I watched some Byf videos about him, but I never understood how he got lost in the vex area

[eager trout]

Dang, even those have lore. What about hackers?

[ember storm]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/destinypedia/images/7/72/InfiniteForest.png/revision/latest?cb=20180301041627

do you know where to go

[empty fern]

To that forest over there

[naive raptor]

Nope

[eager trout]

What even is that place?

[ember storm]

the infinite forest

ultimate simulation engine of the vex and prior tomb of Saint 14

[chrome fog]

Witness

[chrome fog]

Do you know about Randy?

[eager trout]

No

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

lol

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/randys-throwing-knife

[tired lava]

Wait chat, wouldnt Dredgen Yor be the earliest/first Guardian to have a taste of what Strand was like bc of Thorn?

[chrome fog]

No

[tired lava]

[jagged badge]

Thorn isn’t related to Strand at all

[chrome fog]

Strand specifically deals with the Weave, which we hadn’t encountered until arriving at Neomuna, which was due to the Veil

[tired lava]

Hmm... I see thanks for info chat

now imagine how crazy Dredgen Yor would be with Strand

[chrome fog]

Bad, considering he was killing Guardians left and right

[tired lava]

Did he have a reason or did he just start tweaking?

[naive raptor]

He died in there?

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

[chrome fog]

Saint-14 delved into the Infinite Forest to find Osiris, after the latter decided to abscond from the Last City and Vanguard to do Vex Research. For centuries, Saint wrecked shop and slaughtered a ton of Vex, so they had to develop the Matyr Mind to capture Saint’s Light so they could stand a chance of killing him. They did it, of course, but not after a great many more Vex frames fell to Saint.
https://youtu.be/-bjl7RiAR9c?si=TPQGguT208NbcQR0

That subsequent season, we went to bring Saint back through simulated timeline shenanigans. I don’t know enough about the specifics how, Dova, Waltz, or Eris might know better.

Mael’s for sure asleep rn, but he might also know

[jagged badge]

I don’t!

I didn’t play that season

[chrome fog]

Me neither, I played a bit in Arrivals, then I got BL like in the second season

[empty fern]

Wait was I saints funeral a seasonal thing or curse of osiris thing

[ember storm]

we find his corpse in CoO

that’s it

[eager trout]

Then what is Thorn?

Who's Glint?

What's Elsie's fish thing?

[jagged badge]

Hive magic shenanigans

[jagged badge]

Crow’s Ghost

[jagged badge]

A Pouka from Neomuna, though she found it elsewhere

[eager trout]

And that's a....?

[jagged badge]

Some sorta biomechanical creature, potentially related to the Darkness through Maya’s experiments with the Veil?

Apparently they can be wild on Neomuna, despite being invented and made with nanotech

We see in the Lightfall CE lore and the bit of lore we got on the Lightfall preorder items that the Pouka has a connection with memory somehow

[eager trout]

Ok

What exactly is the Weave?

[jagged badge]

A dimension of psychic Darkness energy, interweaving and connecting the entire universe

This is how we grapple on thin air

[eager trout]

The Force

[jagged badge]

By latching on to a point in the cosmic web of the Weave

[eager trout]

So the grapple points are just that but more concentrated and that's why they recharge your grapple completely

[empty fern]

Sure

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-rohan-cloudstrider-lightfall-quicksilver-gif-27606725

[dawn escarp]

I think a good analogy is comparing your grapple point to a climbing anchor or a handhold, if there isn't one there you place one, if there already is one there's no need.

[chrome fog]

You might also like to listen to this
#📚lore-discussion message

[past glen]

Saladman no

Why you do this

[chrome fog]

What do you mean

[past glen]

The last paragraph

I get there’s gonna be the chance they have to fight the city

But still

[chrome fog]

… noooo Caital’s allied with us and also Saladin, it’s more so being capable of taking down rogue Lightbearers should the occasion ever come up

[past glen]

We interpreted this in VERY different ways lol

I saw it from the perspective of if the coalition breaks

[jagged badge]

Or it’s talking about them defying him just like Shaxx did

What lore tab is that?

[chrome fog]

For example, the Warlords abused their power; should a group like them come about again, we will need to deal with them. We already see this with the Lucent Hive’s Lightbearers too

[past glen]

New mountaintop

[chrome fog]

Thankfully there doesn’t seem like anything that would threaten the Coalition at the moment, even with the scare during Season of the Risen

[past glen]

I mean what we never raided an ascendancy outpost and killed caital’s troops

[chrome fog]

She was willing to let that slide out of the immediacy of the situation or some shit like that, but she was more enraged by Crow killing her closest advisor; thankfully Valus Forge's swift integration into the Cabal structure had done wonders for improving relations between us and Caital

[ember storm]

my gripe is that she started joking about it

like immediately afterward

she personally performed funeral rites for the soldiers who died under her orders thanks to our brashness and then just jokes about our methods???

probably just some miscommunication between the cutscene and activity writers but like cmon

[chrome fog]

I think it's more an actual disconnect with Cabal culture with being allowed moments of "weakness", where they're still entrenched in their culture of glory and combat and whatnot

[thorny sequoia]

is this room part of older lore? it is just above caydes's memorial

[chrome fog]

It was included only recently, I believe during Lightfall or smth like that; from the scan dialogue, it's one of Banshee's old workshops

[thorny sequoia]

I think I missed that scan

where exactly is it?

[ember storm]

Banshee’s workshop was from the leviathan’s breath quest

[dusty jolt]

What do yall think the raid is gonna be like

[empty fern]

Final shapes? It’ll be like ron aesthetics wise, wel a little sharper and more pink but yea

[ember storm]

pretty

lots of color

and then the ugliest boss in Destiny history

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny-2-final-shape-the-final-shape-d2-tfs-gif-5910196830123967912

[fast tapir]

this could be one of the best looking raids we have gotten

[empty fern]

Indeed

On another note

Healing auto rifle?

[fast tapir]

also woah woah

[dusty jolt]

I didn't know I was gonna be final boss

[fast tapir]

what now

[ember storm]

I mean

[fast tapir]

[dusty jolt]

Lol

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/witness-the-witness-destiny-2-destiny-2-the-witness-destiny-2-witness-gif-7233738735024922416

[fast tapir]

the witness looks cool