📚lore-discussion

[trim grotto]

Technically, Exo can bleed.

[blazing wasp]

but thats more of a DER prevention right

[modern lodge]

Yeah they have a black fluid right

[trim grotto]

Oil and/or alkahest fluid

[modern lodge]

Cooling?

[blazing wasp]

o

[trim grotto]

Bleeding? No.

[trim grotto]

Perhaps

Alkahest is multipurpose

[modern lodge]

What is alkahest

Remind me

[blazing wasp]

most fluids work as a heatsink

[trim grotto]

when... actually hang on

[blazing wasp]

vex milk where the vex inside it got evicted

[trim grotto]

one moment

[modern lodge]

Purified vex milk

[blazing wasp]

using the darkness statue thing at europa

[modern lodge]

Righto

Yeah I remember

[blazing wasp]

one is in the deep stone crypt

right before the second encounter

[modern lodge]

And in that lost sector

The gold pure vex

I think they are pure

[shadow crypt]

At the end of the SK campaign do we know what that artifact is?

[modern lodge]

Could just be a gold model

[modern lodge]

The orb?

[shadow crypt]

Yea

[modern lodge]

Have we gone in depth with that?

I don't actually know

[shadow crypt]

Idk

[modern lodge]

Uke?

[blazing wasp]

well it did produce a signal leading into the black garden

[modern lodge]

Thus the raid

[blazing wasp]

its the whole reason we do the garden of salvation raid

yea

[trim grotto]

here you go

i am sick so my voice is funky but nevertheless

as for the artifact...

[modern lodge]

Eggsomind

Also what the fuck I expected some nasally dude not some animal documentary Chad

I didn't know that the alkahest helped with the der

[trim grotto]

you may have heard people jokingly call me Byf before

[blazing wasp]

its not just the lore knowledge

i think its more the voice in fact.

[trim grotto]

which is currently out of whack
i've been sick since tuesday

ironically, from a flu shot

[modern lodge]

Unlucky lad

The lore for this game is so cool

Actually how the fuck would an exo drink, apart from just chucking it down their gob they can't sip or anything

[trim grotto]

With difficulty, I imagine

[shadow crypt]

is sword logic just killing others to get stronger

essentially

[modern lodge]

Yea

[shadow crypt]

Also

Where exactly is the Black Garden?

[trim grotto]

A different dimensional layer

It isn't strictly in a "place"

[ember storm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbqYPBOJ7Lk

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

you should just have a soundboard at the ready and play it while you give your audio and pretend it's a real byf clip

april fools idea for next year

[chrome fog]

I mean Cayde lost a leg and an arm in the Red War, they just patched him right up

[trim grotto]

...after Sundance got her Light back, yes

I imagine she just healed him

[chrome fog]

Mmm fair

Also I think it’s funny that I’ve answered a lot of zick’s questions already yesterday, like verbatim I went over the Black Garden and the Consensus

[jagged badge]

Or resurrected him after a death? I have no idea what the point-of-no-return is in terms of healing vs needing a rez

Like with Felwinter

[trim grotto]

Either or
Ghost involvement either way

[jagged badge]

Aye

[trim grotto]

Yeah but I have a Super Cool Helmet™️

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

[trim grotto]

Gives me a +7 Trustworthy stat

[ember storm]

I feel like Cayde would be the first to do a celebratory self-destruction heal following the red war

he likes jumping into large chasms

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't strictly call it a part of the Vex network as that suggests it is "owned" or controlled by the Vex
The Sol Divisive tend to it as much as it affects them in turn

[chrome fog]

I wanted to include that in my explanation, in that it doesn’t seem wholly Vex made, but I just over simplified cause I wasn’t sure

[exotic cloak]

https://youtu.be/f0G8X9NDj9M?si=bHD3CxZ1vV8soIxO

[analog torrent]

What was the extent of Chinese culture during the Golden Age? Mara Sov(?) isn't of "single race or ancestry," but the ship she was on was called Yang Liwei and she talks about "nai nai and ye ye" (Chinese pinyin for grandmother and grandfather). There's also 机库 (hangar) written on the wall of the hangar in the Tower.

[fiery copper]

About 1/6* of earth's population speaks chinese, imo it's pretty reasonable that it would continue to be a major world language, especially in the golden age and age of triumph where the entirety of the human race is more connected and interactive with each other than any other point in history (for different reasons)

In modern day, languages are GENERALLY concentrated in specific areas. A majority of people who speak chinese are in eastern asia, a majority of people who speak English are in North America and Western Europe, a majority of people who speak Crikey-Dingoese are in Australia. The last city isn't like that, 99% of the remaining human race is living within sparrow distance of each other.

[chrome fog]

I mean she and the original set of Awoken were, all in all, originally human colonists of various groups and nationalities, not to mention the variety of names of Guardians like Wei Ning and Osiris where they still have names from previous human civilizations

[spiral crane]

Are humans only in the last city

Why don’t they colonize other regions of earth If so

[analog torrent]

They once colonized the solar system but after the Collapse the few survivors congregated in the Last City

and Neomuna ig

ex: there was a big city on Mars called Freehold

[spiral crane]

Why did they stay in the last city

[analog torrent]

the Cabal hold it now

[spiral crane]

Why didn’t they expand it

[analog torrent]

they did/are I think

the last city started as this tiny settlement underneath the traveler and when word spread that people were flocking there, more people showed up and built it until it became a proper city

now I'd imagine everyone's focused on defense rather than expansion

[analog torrent]

This lore tab is about the Speaker and Iron Lord Efrideet discussing the founding of the Last City if you wanna read more about it https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/building#book-constellations

[chrome fog]

The Last City was established by the remnants of all citizens across Earth as one last safe haven for humanity guarded by responsible Lightbearers; as of now, we have information of members of humanity seeking to make settlements outside the Last City now that 1) most enemy forces have been pacified by consistent Vanguard patrol, and 2) we have already allied ourselves with two major factions within the alien races in our system

[analog torrent]

This whole time I thought the Dreaming City was the Distributary

Is it based on the Distributary at least

[jagged badge]

Because we can’t

We’ve had three major wars where the City has been directly affected by our enemies. We can’t hold/defend more territory reliably

[wheat flower]

So just a question , just saw an advertisement for Into the Light where ikora says they authorized shaxx to give banned weapons , is that just for advertisement purposes or were these weapons really banned?

If they were why were they banned?

[ember storm]

it’s not really anything based in lore

it’s kind of just a meme because recluse is in there

stuff like succession or fucking edge transit is defo not banned lol

[spiral crane]

Why would recluse be banned

[errant olive]

a coup from the Funnelweb mafia

[crystal wolf]

iirc from original lore like Red Death, banned weapons = "Guardian killers"

[outer dragon]

We have no real idea what the Distributary looks like

I doubt we will ever see it

TBH

[spiral crane]

How long has it been in distributary years since mara sov left

I’d imagine at least a few million

[analog torrent]

I swear I read a loretab a while back when Sjur Eido saw Mara's face and couldn't bear to kill her, was this Imponent II in the Marasenna or was there another tab that went into more detail?

[outer dragon]

Imagine shaxx handing out Thorn random rolls
The Praxic Order and Shin would shit a chicken

[ember storm]

he literally says directly that he doesn’t give shits about thorns when he was discussing the eligibility of mida being from another timeline

[outer dragon]

I know

[ember storm]

it’s just referencing sunsetting

[outer dragon]

Just think it would be funny

[smoky rose]

It’s just about sunsetting

And the reason they were sunset is that old recluse and mountaintop would still be BIS today if they weren’t sunset

Or nerfed into the ground

Bungie did both because you could still use them in PvP that wasn’t level enabled

Release Recluse was far and away the best PvE SMG ever released and has not been topped to this day (and the reprised one, while still BIS void SMG, is FAR from the power of the og)

There are top PvP players to this very day that have 30% of their kills on Luna’s and/or Not Forgotten and remained active every season

[shadow warren]

Ig bungie wanted to tie sunsetting into the lore

[empty fern]

Wonder if the anomaly will be referenced in final shape

[shadow wyvern]

The main reason was the engine limitations wasn’t it? The weapons having hit their peak at the time was a secondary thing no?

[jagged badge]

Sunsetting and vaulting are completely different

Besides, pretty sure engine limitations weren’t the main issue behind vaulting anyway

Well

[ember storm]

I’m hungry

[jagged badge]

They revamped the engine to improve it but that meant recoding everything, so they had to choose what to spend the time and resources to recode and what to leave

[smoky rose]

Sunsetting was purely to control weapons like Recluse/MT and force them out of the meta (you've even always been able to acquire them but you couldn't use them in any end game content or high level pvp), content vaulting was because in the BL engine upgrade they had to remake all of the content in the game and the Y1 expansions had >1% of total playtime but would have taken a ton of time to update to the new engine, so they vaulted them

[shadow wyvern]

On yeah I forgot about the part where they’re still in the game just cant go up in PL

Silly me

[chrome fog]

It's refreshing that the immediate response to engine limitations isn't "BuH tHeY sHoUlD hAvE gOnE bAcK aNd Re-InTrOdUcE vAuLtEd ExPaNsIoNs"

[pseudo karma]

Did those darkness statues with boobages ever become important

[chrome fog]

We have no real elaboration about them aside from Clovis having been guided by one to purify Radiolaria into Alkahest and that one cutscene post-Shadowkeep of Eris Morn being guided to one statue and harnessing Stasis

[spiral crane]

Whaf happened to Clovis bray in the end

Did he die in the collapse

I feel like I’ve asked this before but I forgot what the answer was

[trim grotto]

Clovis Bray died because he was mindscanned. His Mindscan was put into three places - the Morningstar, the Deep Stone Crypt, and an Exobody: Clovis-1. This was all prior to the Collapse, during the Vex-Exo War. The... Vexo War.

[jagged badge]

Is the AI his mindscan or a replica based on his behaviours and such?

Because if it was the same as what was uploaded into an Exo, wouldn’t it feel that whole dysphoria business being a literal disembodied head?

[trim grotto]

Apparently the latter, though it's all been a bit wonky.

I seem to recall that the CE and game lore didn't quite match up 1 to 1

[spiral crane]

Where is the Clovis 1

Is it still around

[trim grotto]

Haha

Sort of

Do you have Beyond Light?

[spiral crane]

Yeah

[dim minnow]

he's ||Banshee-44||

[spiral crane]

I’m doing teh empire hunts rn

[trim grotto]

Have you earned the Lament?

[spiral crane]

What’s that

Is that a gun

[trim grotto]

There's an Exotic quest for an Exotic sword

[dim minnow]

a chainsaw sword

[spiral crane]

Cool

I don’t have that no

[trim grotto]

Lost Lament or Legacy's Lament or something like that

It'll come soon

Gotta find some dead exo bodies

[dim minnow]

post-BL campaign quest

[spiral crane]

Yeah I’ve been holding off on that quest because it seems hard

[trim grotto]

Well that quest holds your answer

[spiral crane]

Aight I’ll get around to it eventually

I’ve been very slow doing beyond light because none of my friends own it

I have to do everything solo

[spiral crane]

What was Clovis brays end goal

Did he wanna be immortal

[trim grotto]

Yes, actually. That's why he made the Exo.

He wanted to become the LUCA of all mankind. Our "common ancestor". He wanted to be... remembered, to put it lightly.

He was extremely narcissistic.

His legacy mattered most of all.

[chrome fog]

Ain't too hard especially post-BL; Strand and all the new exotics and exotic reworks and subclass reworks have made the Lament Quest infinitely more easier (assuming this is about the Exo Challenges, which were tough as shit during the year of BL's release)

[jagged badge]

It’s not, at all

[spiral crane]

Is he remembered?

[jagged badge]

There’s a tedious part iirc

But not difficult

[trim grotto]

Well, civilisation collapsed after that and humanity nearly went extinct.

But, yes.

[spiral crane]

So he got what he wanted

Kind of

[trim grotto]

Well, sort of. He didn't get to become all that he wanted. He was remembered, but not as a legacy that thrust humanity into the stars. He was just known as "the guy who owned that big tech company from centuries ago".

"The guy who owned this ruin I've been scavenging food from"

"The guy who made my gun I stole"

"Thr guy who made the Exo." That's an actual big one, but still.

[spiral crane]

It’s better than nothing

Making all exos and being an ancient billionaire is pretty impressive

[ember storm]

mind-wiped exo Clovis hated everything he stood for and resorted to permanently damaging his memory to try and forget being him

[spiral crane]

More than most would ever achieve

[ember storm]

not much of an achievement when it only works because you have an eldritch entity whispering in your ear to do it

meanwhile the thing that’s a stand in for the concept of life itself is sending direct warnings to you not to go through with it

[chrome fog]

Hahaaa, he wouldn’t be satisfied with good enough, he wants to be an eternal part of the human zeitgeist

[spiral crane]

It’s seriously not that deep though

Like he’s immortal and famous

Being even more famous on top of that is like

Pointless

[ember storm]

and yet he wanted it

he didn’t care about being famous, he wanted to be the permanent pinnacle of humanity

[trim grotto]

It is to him

[outer dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-gif-23533084

The deep be like

[spiral crane]

So clovis bray is a narcissist

[outer dragon]

Yes

[spiral crane]

Bro thought he was the main character

[outer dragon]

He wanted Rasputin to be the protector of Sol and he wanted to hold the keys

[analog torrent]

Who are the famous users of each subclass?
Gunslinger/Bladedancer: so fucking many holy hell
Arcstrider: Eris Morn*
Nightstalker: ???

Sunsinger/Dawnblade: Osiris
Stormcaller: Timur, Ikora
Voidwalker: Felwinter, Ikora

Sunbreaker: ???
Striker: Jolder, Shaxx, Saladin, Zavala (apparently?)
Defender/Sentinel: Saint-14, Zavala

WAIT
Eris was an arcstrider apparently not It's complicated

[spiral crane]

So love for night stalkers 😔

[trim grotto]

Exomind: blocked
Contact ICoV for their trick: failed
Hire Duane McNiadh away from ICOV: failed
Raid ICoV for Vex data: in planning
Europa/Clarity: in progress
Be a good man and a good grandfather: in progress
Become LUCA of future human thought: in progress```
```I am going to be the LUCA of all interstellar human civilization.

It is a mistake to imagine that the Greatest Man, the God-Emperor of History and Ruler of Circumstances whose influence reaches to the end of time, will live in the future—in the full flowering of human glory. That man lives NOW, at the tiny bottleneck before the vast explosion, when it is still possible for an individual's decisions to touch the entire species and set the course of all future choices.```
```I will forget nothing. One copy of my mind will go to an exo, yes, but a second copy will be installed in the Deep Stone site. He will guide me to my destiny. The gods of might and knowledge will welcome me to their table. I will be the LUCA, the beginning and the source of the way, the foundation of the long road.```

[outer dragon]

Ouros for Sunbreaker
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/hallowfire-heart#sunbreakers

[trim grotto]

Clovis Bray essentially wanted all Human progress, everything we did, to be attributed back to him

[analog torrent]

hang on
Why does Eris have Lucky Raspberry equipped, is she stupid? Is there a lore reason?

[trim grotto]

She was a Bladedancer.

[outer dragon]

It looks like it but it's not exactly Raspberry

[analog torrent]

yet another solar hunter

[trim grotto]

The lady who used arc has an Arc exotic
News at 11

[spiral crane]

He sounds insane

[trim grotto]

Bladedancer was D1's version of Arcstrider

Yes

[spiral crane]

Also what he wanted never really came to fruition

Because of the witness

[analog torrent]

my brain hurts
Bladedancer was arc in d1?

[trim grotto]

Yes

[analog torrent]

wild

[trim grotto]

What's the confusion here

[spiral crane]

God imagine if Clovis bray had the sort of power the witness had

[trim grotto]

Are you confusing Bladedancer with... Solar? That's Gunslinger.

[outer dragon]

Liu Feng was also a Solar Titan

[analog torrent]

I thought the blade barrage solar variant was bladedancer for over a year

[outer dragon]

If memory serves

[spiral crane]

Did he like cover up all the bad shit he did

[trim grotto]

I... what?

[analog torrent]

I don't know

[spiral crane]

Did he think it wouldn’t come to light?

[analog torrent]

lol

Don't think arc has knives in d2/3.0, at least so I got confused

[outer dragon]

Yeah Liu Feng, one of the ones who fought at Twilight Gap with Shaxx

[trim grotto]

That's another reason he was on Europa.

And why he shot down the evacuation ships as they tried to flee the Vex Exo War.

[outer dragon]

I was right

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/transcripts/shard-of-the-traveler-sunbreaker?highlight=Liu+Feng

[analog torrent]

That's 8/9 subclasses
We got any famous void hunters?

[outer dragon]

Resisting urge to make joke

[shadow warren]

Tevis?

[trim grotto]

Quantis Rhee and Tevis Larsen

Tevis, who we got our Nightstalker subclass from originally

[outer dragon]

Quantis Rhee?

Yeah

[analog torrent]

apparently Shiro's a bladedancer too
TIL

[trim grotto]

Yes

[outer dragon]

Quantis is the Orpheus Rig lore tab

[trim grotto]

—Tevis, Log Entry 19338```

[shadow warren]

Is that the official term for it in the lore?

A dusk bow

Never heard it being called that before now

[trim grotto]

I will say though
Saint uses the Solar hammer too
Osiris used all elements

I mean most of these people used all elements really

Saladin uses Solar Light on his axe

[analog torrent]

Hunter rep is mostly solar users though
This is an injustice

[trim grotto]

Solar preferences.
Take Cayde-6 - he used all 3.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/arcstriders-patience

Emote lore

https://youtu.be/UsGUPOfW9zo?si=UwFPzPCA8UhOxJ2v

[outer dragon]

Shaxx talked about his Solar hammers keeping his people warm in a storm too

When Felwinter challenged him

[trim grotto]

Also true

[outer dragon]

Shaxx is documented using all three too

Unless I am mistaken

[trim grotto]

I don't recall him using Void specifically but I am certain he can

[outer dragon]

I know from his time with Mara he can use Arc, the aforementioned fight with Felwinter for Solar
I'm gonna do some digging

[spiral crane]

One thing kind of confuses me about the lore

So like

When the travler comes

All the nations of the world just unite and it becomes utopia

Just like that

No war over the travler and no more in fighting

[dim minnow]

we don't exactly have much in terms of what the early Golden Age was like

but we know that all of North America united into an empire

[spiral crane]

So Mexico and Canada and the us?

[dim minnow]

yes

[spiral crane]

Like an empire empire

[dim minnow]

the North American Empire

[spiral crane]

With a emperor

[dim minnow]

well

hold on, lemme grab the quote

[spiral crane]

Was it a democracy?

[dim minnow]

"Some American you are," Mia teases him. David comes from the North American Empire, Earth's biggest voluntary retro-nationalist republic, full of people who love military pageantry and muscular aerospace displays.

basically what we know about it

[spiral crane]

I don’t like that it’s t called empire

Did all of humanity eventually unite as a single government

[dim minnow]

not quite sure

I wouldn't count on it though

[spiral crane]

So is was it generally the same as today

[dim minnow]

this lore excerpt is from right when the Collapse began

[dim minnow]

not sure, we don't have much info on that

[spiral crane]

Wouldn’t be much of a golden age if it was

I don’t think everyone was magically made altruistic ether bevause ppl like Bray still exist

[trim grotto]

The quote itself disproves this

[thorny pelican]

Wait so aside from FWC, New Monarchy, and Dead Orbit, what other factions are confirmed to be working with the Concordat?

[trim grotto]

Uh, none of those, as far as I'm aware.

Unless something came out with ITL that I missed.

[thorny pelican]

There’s a room in the Hall for Champions with all their banners

[trim grotto]

And where does that draw a connection for working together

[calm granite]

seems like those are purely for the old faction rally events

[trim grotto]

The Hall is full of gear from across the Tower
Old events, materials, storage

Bannerfall in D1 had their banners still flying

That's why it was named that

[thorny pelican]

Ok that makes more sense than my interpretation that they used the abandoned rooms to meet up, make plans, and steal some of the the banned weapons we’re now producing

[trim grotto]

New Monarchy kicked them out, Future War Cult replaced them

[thorny pelican]

Yes, but we kicked out the other factions in Splicer for trying to overthrow the Vanguard, like the Concordat.

It would seem like they’d be on common ground now, no? (Overthrowing the Vanguard)

But yeah it does actually make more sense for that to be an abandoned room with some old banners from the faction rallies

[trim grotto]

FWC have disbanded and the other two left the system. Dead Orbit did what they always wanted to, and left the Sol System. New Monarchy joined them.

So, no.

[thorny pelican]

Oh they did? I never knew that

Do you know which entry says that?

[trim grotto]

Well there was the actual seasonal dialogue itself but

Let me find something

[thorny pelican]

The seasonal dialogue said they left the city. I never saw anything saying they left the system until you brought it up

[trim grotto]

Dead Orbit's entire shtick was wanting to leave the system

[thorny pelican]

I thought they’re still preparing to leave the system just not within the last city.

Though that assumption sounds stupid in hindsight because where would they prepare?

[jagged badge]

The Laster City

[trim grotto]

"Ikora: People of the Last City: I have some troubling news to share. As some of you know, a portal was opened in the Eliksni Quarter of the City allowing Vex to breach our walls for the first time. Thankfully Guardians, working together with Eliksni Splicers, were able to repel the assault. We've since discovered that Lakshmi-2, former leader of the Future War Cult, was responsible for the security breach. Regrettably, Lakshmi was killed by Vex during the assault. It seems that the other faction leaders were culpable, if not responsible. Executor Hideo and Arach Jalaal have fled taking the remainder of their factions with them. In their absence, we are now one people: stronger, thanks to our alliance with House Light.
While we don't have explicit confirmation of their whereabouts, we know the Dead Orbit were already preparing to leave the system very, very shortly.

Jalaal cut off his subordinate's bumbling presentation. "This is insufficient. Earth will soon be behind us, and Dead Orbit will have to survive on the supplies that we provide." His mild tone and half-lidded gaze underscored the gravity of his words. "Supplies that you are in charge of tracking. You do understand that, don't you?"

A furious blush spread across the administrator's face. He bowed his head and scuttled away as Jalaal crooked his head in annoyance.

Behind him, a raspy voice floated up from the maze of towering crates: "Leaving us so soon, Jalaal?"```

The most likely answer, in my opinion, is that they've already properly skedaddled

[thorny pelican]

I see, so they were preparing to leave the system before they fled the city. Whether they succeeded or not is left to interpretation I presume? (With they left being the most likely answer)

[trim grotto]

Except for Ikora and Jalaal having a discussion in the WQ CE (which sheds no light on the question we have), we've heard nothing from any of them since Splicer.

So, yes, exactly

[thorny pelican]

Assuming New Monarchy left with Dead Orbit, the Concordat would then, at most, only have the support of some of the FWC guys that were scattered

That is assuming their peace offerings weren’t actually genuine peace offerings

[trim grotto]

The very little that we know about them (and was originally, iirc, 3rd party soft confirmation from a writer that has since been properly canonised) is that they were "Guardian supremacists".

So there may be power hungry Lightbearers on their side

Ironically, their desire ended up coming true

Only the Vanguard remain in charge

[thorny pelican]

If that’s the case then it would explain the peace offerings.

What they want is in effect, so now they just have to get back into the city and enjoy it

[empty fern]

Wonder what ana bray is up to

[ember storm]

Rasputin withdrawal

[empty fern]

F

[sage lion]

Lol So i've been catching up on the lore

I haven't played since seraph season

Back when anna and Rasputin were on europa

[sick yew]

Alright

Wait

[sick yew]

What part do you mean they changed then

[sage lion]

And used to be one of many warminds that came from the cosmodome

[empty fern]

Oh

[sick yew]

Ah I see the confusion

Rasputin like split the subminds and left them sorta alone to do their own thinking back in the Collapse

iirc

[empty fern]

Weren’t most if not all warmind just subminds of rasputin? Like the one on io

[sick yew]

Yeah he cut them off

[sage lion]

And as well, CHRMG used to be it's own warmind completely independent of Rasputin

And suddenly now it's like a secret submind

[sick yew]

They were sub-AIs that answered to raspy everywhere
Some were on colony ships others in their own bunkers all over Sol etc.

[sage lion]

I miss raspy

And all the epic loot

[empty fern]

Gone

Infact

[sage lion]

I actually have an old account with all his loot i must find it

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-season-of-the-seraph-exo-rasputin-ai-gif-27560477

Die again

[sage lion]

THEY MADE HIM AN EXO

[empty fern]

For a short while

[sick yew]

The uh strike on the cosmodrome the one from D1 where we "talk to rasputin" is one of those early D1 lore things
Its not actually Rasputin who we hear in that bunker strike but rather one of the various subminds

Its just we didnt know that in Early d1

We only found out in D2

During the funny Mars dlc

Thats when Proper Rasputin came back online

[sage lion]

I remember D1 and how messy the launch was

It was a fun ass game though

[empty fern]

Love when d1 does that

(This was a crota mission)

[sick yew]

I mean to be fair its unfair for the writers of D1's launch lore to expect just how far the story would go

I highly doubt they were even sure what the nature of the darkness/Witness would be during most of D2s lifetime

[empty fern]

True

The whole thing of calus didn’t exist in d1

[sick yew]

Calus seems to only have been written as a character around D2 launch

Ghaul however they sorta teased back in D1

And Calus in return was teased during the Red War campaign

There are 2 secret rooms in the almighty mission where you see "loyalist infiltrators"

Who bear Calus' colors

[empty fern]

Wonder if atheon was teased before vog

Wait what’s the final mission of the d1 free campaign?

[sick yew]

Black Heart

[empty fern]

Or not free but first paid

Oh yea

[sick yew]

First paid missions of d1 was house of wolfes no?

[empty fern]

No d1 was never free so base game is first

[sick yew]

Well yeah

Vanilla D1

[empty fern]

Ye

[sick yew]

The launch campaign

[empty fern]

First dlc was wolves tho (I think)

[sick yew]

That ended with you "killing" the black heart

The launch campaign

What House of Wolfes was up to no fucking clue

Probably shooting some kell in the face

[empty fern]

We were so close to fallen and vex
But it was SO early

Wonder if they’ll try fallen and vex again

[fast tapir]

The House of Wolves is broken!

Dovas favorite character

[ember storm]

no

[exotic cloak]

First DLC was The Dark Below

[ember storm]

the loot icons are literally a 1 and 2

[exotic cloak]

Damn

[empty fern]

Holdon I got another line

Beriks my beloved

[exotic cloak]

Variks actually betrayed us or it was a misunderstanding?

[ember storm]

he betrayed the awoken which dominoed into Cayde’s death

it wasn’t his intention but he plans on taking responsibility once the vanguard stops protecting him for his duties on Europa

[velvet flax]

aka when bungie remembers he exists lol

[ember storm]

when BL gets vaulted

[velvet flax]

the way Variks was meant to be watching Eramis and when she broke out in Plunder he wasnt even mentioned

[ember storm]

he had to go down to Elsie’s camp because she’s the only one with working plumbing

[velvet flax]

[gentle geyser]

I mean that seems kinda like a fair thing to just miss

[ember storm]

the entirety of house salvation was mobilizing

they could’ve just had one line at the start like “Variks has sent a distress call”

[silver iris]

So, do we have an idea of who ||was speaking in The Final Shape trailer?||

[jagged badge]

||The most common idea is that it could be the Traveler||

I don’t believe it’s a voice we recognise so

[gentle geyser]

||I would die for her, peak voice actor||

[ember storm]

||if I had a nickel for every time bungie revealed the true voice for a character who previously only spoke copying others||

[dim minnow]

The Traveler has access to Ishtar.net given that it knows several lore quotes as heard in the Forsaken middle tree mission

[shadow crypt]

How do you even become a techeun?

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/imagination-spongebob-squarepants-dreams-magic-gif-12725683

[exotic cloak]

Variks, Fynch and Nimbus will pretty much just exist forever

At least with Nimbus we did not have a case were it was perfect to at least mention him

[trim grotto]

Nimbus can't last longer than... eight, nine years. So there's that.

[exotic cloak]

I mean Variks is also a mortal so only Fynch will survive

There, alone in the Throne World alongside a corpse

[trim grotto]

When the Awoken left the Distributary and arrived in Sol, they discovered they were A Little Bit Magic™️

The Techeuns are adepts who have gone through very extensive training over a very long time to harness this power

Some new Techeuns were rush trained during Season of the Lost, too.

[trim grotto]

True, but he's lived since the Whirlwind. He's been around a while already.

[exotic cloak]

Damn

Whats Eliksni lifespan?

[trim grotto]

Indefinite.

[blazing wasp]

I reckon that given how eliksni can grow back fucking limbs, ether probably has some of that lobster logic to it with fallen?

[wheat flower]

Does void hunter not get devour?

[trim grotto]

...

[wheat flower]

oops

[trim grotto]

I mean, yes, it does, via a Fragment

[wheat flower]

wrong channel

[blazing wasp]

all classes gets access to all subclass verbs

[trim grotto]

Echo of Starvation
Devour on orb pickup

[exotic cloak]

I will consider this conversation a recreation of an intervention between three hunters talking about buildcrafting

Is lore related now

[shadow crypt]

Why do we only send 6 guardians into raids?

or is that just a gameplay thing

[trim grotto]

Ah, that harkens back to the Great Disaster.

Also I see a Halllyyyy

[shadow crypt]

What’s that mean

[trim grotto]

One moment
Trying to find the relevant entry

[raw hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/frieren-frieren-fern-fern-frieren-anime-girl-peek-frieren-peek-gif-5084449026073235572

[trim grotto]

Swiftly and terribly, we learned our error. The sword logic finds the weakest part of a structure and destroys it. A mass of Guardians is full of joints and weaknesses to cut through. Today, we fight in fireteams of three: a triangle, the basic shape of a truss; the strongest shape in nature.```

Raid teams follow similar logic
Too many Guardians has weaknesses

[shadow crypt]

Who is speaking in that?

Just curious

Is it me?

[trim grotto]

Ikora Rey

[shadow crypt]

Oh ok

[trim grotto]

How could it be you
You were rezzed in the Cosmodrome very recently

Silly billy

Silly little billy goat

[shadow crypt]

Also

When we defeat raid bosses or any boss in general do we do anything with its body?

Like preserve it or destroy it

[trim grotto]

It's rarely mentioned
We only dealt with Oryx's during Ghosts of the Deep for example and that was years later

We did steal Savathûn's body after the WQ campaign though

[raw hazel]

This reminds me I still haven’t done Ghosts of the Deep

[trim grotto]

Oops

I mean
Who's Oryx
Never heard of them

[raw hazel]

Nah you’re fine I already know all the story stuff

[shadow crypt]

When we kill the disciples

for example

Calus and rhulk

What’s that thing that explodes

when they die

like a tree or roots

[devout vine]

Its residual darkness I believe....
Energy emitted and channeled from the veil

[trim grotto]

To be frank, we simply do not know. We're left with theories.

It's clearly Darkness related, of course.

[shadow crypt]

What do you think?

[shadow crypt]

ye

[trim grotto]

It's consistent across all Witness-empowered beings, so it's some level of side effect produced by its power, specifically.

[spiral crane]

who is calus and what is his relation to the current empress

[empty fern]

Calus was the previous emperor and the current empresses father

[spiral crane]

when was he displaced

was it during d2

[empty fern]

At some point, I don’t think we have an exact date between the dusk cabal on mars and when red war started

[spiral crane]

was he a good emperor

[empty fern]

Definitely not

During lightfall they give a brief cutscene of what he is

[spiral crane]

i dont own lightfall

[spiral crane]

was he like a tyrant

[empty fern]

Go YouTube it

[empty fern]

Think so,

He did a lot of bad things, can ask bionicle and waltz when you catch them

[dim minnow]

a hedonistic one

he wanted to turn Cabal away from their original glory-based culture to one more focused on pleasure and such

[spiral crane]

like the caligula or nero of the cabal

[dim minnow]

I don't have enough knowledge of Roman history to answer that accurately

[gentle geyser]

Basically hes a greedy bastard

[ember storm]

his hobbies included wearing genetically engineered organisms designed to act as scarves, and also disemboweling Caiatl’s dog because she loved it more than him

[raw hazel]

He’s just a silly lil’ guy

[gentle geyser]

“I can fix him”

[dull raft]

Considering how large he is, i dont think he classifies as a lil' guy anymore. Maybe 'friend shaped'

[chrome fog]

He’s a little guy to the Witness

[shadow crypt]

Did Calus have a wife?

[trim grotto]

Once upon a time.

She left him because he's a horrible gremlin.

[shadow crypt]

Oh wow

[trim grotto]

In return, he murdered his babies.

So

Yeah

[raw hazel]

Just a goober

[shadow crypt]

He murdered.. his own children?

What a odd guy

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/calus-lightfall-destiny2-naked-calus-destiny2gif-darkness-gif-26545730

[trim grotto]

She roars and strikes him. I gasp into the floor. It is the first time I have ever heard my father in pain. The guards stand very still.

Then there is a terrible sound. I am too young to understand it as the sound of a father opening his brood pouches.

"I do not want them anymore," my father the emperor says, quite softly. "If you cannot love me, then how could they? You can find another male with open pouches, some barracks beau. But be sure I never know him. I will not have by-blows."

The large-tusked woman screams in rage. She stampedes out, past the guards, past me. Her hands are full of little things.```

[finite ingot]

Calus is a materialist who wanted to live in opulence forever but reality caught up to him real quick in the form of Dominus Ghaul

[shadow crypt]

This is Caitial speaking right?

[trim grotto]

Yes. She was three.

[shadow crypt]

What’s the lifespan of Cabal

[trim grotto]

I slide on my greased belly through palace halls, pretending I am a whale-kayak. Guards smile at me and I smile back, but I keep my ear pressed to the floor.
Baby Cabal shenanigans

[shadow crypt]

Can they live indefinitely

[finite ingot]

Thousands of years at least

[shadow crypt]

Oh wow

Is the Veil basically the traveler for the darkness?

[trim grotto]

"Her ruling days were coming to a close. But the Praetorate, those canny slavemongers, they wanted her to remain on the throne so they could avoid the chaos of a succession. They put her on a ship modeled after a landwhale. Its mouth was a scoop, so it would never have to stop to refuel. They accelerated it to the edge of light and flew it in an endless procession around our worlds. So that the empress, fossilized in slow time, would never die. So that I would never assume the throne."

"What happened to the old empress?" I ask.

"Oh, she took her own life, I think. Who could go on living that way?"```

Essentially

[shadow crypt]

What about the Winnower?

What is it?

[finite ingot]

Pretty much I think but the whole concept is so enigmatic it’s hard to be sure

And I’d say if the Traveler is the Gardener the Veil is the Winnower

[trim grotto]

We cannot truly say for sure if the Winnower even exists as a separate entity, or whether it exists for the purpose of the Unveiling metaphore.

One take is thst the Winnower is a concept, one that the Witness attempts to embody.

[finite ingot]

Yeah it can be interpreted in many ways despite the origin cutscene

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

What’s the origin of the Vex?

[trim grotto]

The short answer is that they evolved naturally like any other species, slowly forming more and more complex exoskeletons as they advanced as a collective species.

[finite ingot]

I think they come from an unfathomable place outside of time and space (maybe the Black Garden?)

[shadow crypt]

I’ve heard something about the Witness being the reason for the creation of them

Or something like that

Along the lines

In the tfs collectors thing

[trim grotto]

We've heard of Glass Minds and other vaguely Vex reference terms used in the most recent CE for Final Shape
These terms were used by the Precursors, the species that because the Witness

[finite ingot]

I think the Vex are the most confusing species other than the Precursors

Mainly because of their connection with time

[trim grotto]

We don't have a singular explicit origin, though there are suggestions of Volantis, the Black Garden, Precursors, and some minor other things.

But there is some solid information on their evolution from Clovis Bray

[shadow crypt]

Were there Precursors that did not want to merge together to become the Witness?

Maybe i could have worded it better

[trim grotto]

At least one, yes. I recommend reading the CE for yourself. Would you like a link?

[shadow crypt]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UrWkA-28s02Hxtogq0XhoOo-tDNCM_O4IRYahiEddVk/edit?usp=drivesdk

[finite ingot]

Btw does anyone know what the Whirlwind actually was? I assumed it was an extinction-level natural disaster like a storm brought on by the Witness but now I think it might be the arrival of the Pyramids in Riis

[trim grotto]

It was indeed

It was their Collapse, caused by the Black Fleet

[shadow crypt]

I will give it a read in a bit

Who is Maya Sunderesh?

I hear about her in Lightfall a bit

[finite ingot]

Maya was a member of the Ishtar Collective who escaped to Neptune aboard the Exodus Indigo

[analog torrent]

Golden Age Vex researcher

[shadow crypt]

Why did the collective have to escape?

[finite ingot]

The Collapse

Venus was too close to Earth

[shadow crypt]

If I remember correctly she was working on Venus right

Ohh

That’s right

[analog torrent]

There's a segment on her in the 3rd grimoire

[finite ingot]

Anyone that wasn’t instantly hit by the pyramids (like Titan) had to book it as far away from the Traveler as possible

Still pisses me off that Soteria saw it coming and Clovis wouldn’t listen

[trim grotto]

Everyone Loves Clovis

[finite ingot]

Clovis is the man

All 40 somethings of him

[trim grotto]

Clovis-1 through 43, plus the Morningstar and DSC AIs.

And Banshee-44 of course but he gets to be separate

[shadow crypt]

What was exactly being done at the Deep Stone Crypt?

Is it just Exos being created

[finite ingot]

Exo building

[shadow crypt]

Alr

[finite ingot]

Yeah using clarity control (DSC veiled statue)

[trim grotto]

And the creation of Alkahest from Radiolaria

Which was used in the aforementioned creation of Exo

[finite ingot]

Exos have the whole package, little bit of darkness, little bit of vex, little bit of human, little bit of everything

[chrome fog]

Well, the thing is that aside from the Vault of Glass, the Vex have never really traversed across different timelines (at least not until the advent of the Black Heart), they were simply perfectly simulating these alternate timelines in order to determine the most optimized course of action which would lead to their total assimilation of reality. I would need to read more into the Infinite Corridor, but from reading how the Vault of Glass was purpose built for editing the physical reality within its confines - which suggests it’s not a wholly inherent ability to the Vex - as well as the fact it was created using some Ascendant/Paracausal energy from the Black Heart, I would assume that the Vex didn’t actually have the ability to time travel, or else they could very easily time travel to prehistoric Earth and assimilate it then, leading to a fully assimilated humanity now

[fresh zephyr]

lore

[empty fern]

Abandoned

Just like the many fireteams that ventured the hellmouth

[lyric cape]

Why is it called destiny

[exotic cloak]

Cause

We are fighthing against our Destiny

Or we are writing our own Destiny

[trim grotto]

Guardians Make Their Own Fate

[exotic cloak]

Also Destiny awaits

[trim grotto]

ODST, my beloved

[fickle torrent]

what is the meaning behind zaouli's bane's description?

[modern lodge]

Raid weapons in lore

Go

How are they made

Do we give foundries materials or do we do funky light paracasuality and shape things into them

[trim grotto]

Depends on the Raid.

[modern lodge]

Kings fall and crota for example

Like for wrath, DSC, levy those are all probably lying around

Oh also Ron weapons they are funky

[jagged badge]

The last words of a victim of Oryx/the Hive probably

[trim grotto]

The Raid weapons throughout King's Fall are full of texts and quotes of the victims of the Hive (and maybe Black Fleet). Final words.

[trim grotto]

Leviathan was payment from Emperor Calus. He enjoyed our antics.

The Hive guns are just... Hive guns.

that how they be

[modern lodge]

Yeah but they look so not hivey in their structure

[trim grotto]

Yet they are

Root of Nightmares is regular weaponry caught in the clash of Light and Dark, covered in... growth.

[modern lodge]

No I mean they are just funny looking human weapons

[trim grotto]

They're Hive nonetheless. Hive have weaponsmiths who experimented with different weapons.

Necrochasm, for example.

[modern lodge]

True

[eager trout]

Is there a lore reason why the Vanguard let Shaxx have banned weapons? Are they stupid?

[ember storm]

is there a lore reason you’re telling a bad joke

[trim grotto]

The weapons are only "banned" as an excuse to explain the return of sunset or otherwise Vaulted gear, anyway

Don't look into it

[ember storm]

my favorite sunset gear

hung jury

[trim grotto]

Exactly why it shouldn't be looked into

[empty fern]

My favorite, crimson

[exotic cloak]

Banned sounds cooler but

Thinking about it, the easy option was just say it was a personal selection of Shaxx arsenal

Like his best weapons, and he is giving them to us in this dark times

That's still stupid cause world is basically about to end since year six started but makes more sense

[keen obsidian]

What stops a dreg from becoming a captain or larger fallen???

[ember storm]

two things

if they’re a dreg, theyre under a house’s oppressive power structure

dregs are (by definition) lowest of the low, meaning they’re the ones at the bottom of the food chain

they’re not getting any of the necessary ether or nutrients required to grow

they’re undeveloped and even have their arms amputated and the severed stubs blocked off as punishment

on the flip side, Eliksni warlords and those at the top are hoarding ether, which makes them grow to absurd sizes

the normal, healthy size for Eliksni is a normal captain

anything under or below that isn’t what’s meant to happen

[keen obsidian]

Taniks was a normal sized fallen why he stronger than other captain

[ember storm]

he’s not normal

when I say normal captain I mean normal captain

red bar

only a foot or two higher than human

Taniks is the size of kells, which are hoarders of ether and tyrants

Mithrax is the normal size because he’s an actually good person and house light distributes ether equally with zero “paycheck” levels https://techraptor.net/sites/default/files/styles/image_header/public/2021-07/Destiny 2 Saint and Mithrax.jpg?itok=uu2vYs0R

everyone above this size is a hoarder and gorges themselves

also for the record spider is also the same size, he’s just genuinely fat

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-season-of-the-seraph-eliksni-fallen-misraaks-gif-27560457

Wonder if eido is currently malnourished, or just young

[ember storm]

she’s the exact same size

[empty fern]

Oh

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-season-of-plunder-witch-queen-fallen-eliksni-gif-26555398

[fast tapir]

he farming :3

[cobalt tree]

Guys whatever happend with all of the nine stuff? Did we meet them all?

[empty fern]

Currently forgotten about, we haven’t met any of them

[wheat flower]

they could become an episode

[ember storm]

we’ve never met them and we never properly will

they’re a collection of sentient space dust

all they do is send two of their messengers to us

the emissary, who was once a guardian named orin

and xur

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/xur-xur-is-at-the-tower-destiny-2-destiny-2-tower-xur-location-gif-2977713963917248993

[cobalt tree]

Wow thats pretty interesting. Destiny future looks bright.

[empty fern]

We have to get past final shape first

[fast tapir]

his eyes are so beautiful why doesn't he take off his hood sometimes..

[empty fern]

Cause

I said so

[fast tapir]

y'know? thats pretty fair.

[ember storm]

if it’s not part of his skin

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/where-is-xur-xur-edz-xur-is-at-the-edz-destiny-edz-gif-9448577093868403041

[fast tapir]

this does not change anything

he can still show us them eyes

[empty fern]

He’s already showing them you buffoon

See

[fast tapir]

but i want the sunlight to hit them at the perfect angle

with the hood in the way that is not doable

[empty fern]

Just shoot him or something

[fast tapir]

nobody appreciates xur

he breaks his back for us!

[empty fern]

We broke his back

At some point

[ember storm]

that was also orin

[fast tapir]

yeah

poor lil guy

orin probably thought he was some random fucking creature and threw his ass 😭

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/drifter-destiny-destiny2-gambit-laugh-gif-25143789

[ember storm]

wasn’t it because he mentioned someone

[empty fern]

Probably,

[fast tapir]

wasnt it about sjur eido

[analog torrent]

Beneath the Endless Night: II - Fractures
Zavala confirmed to have hair ‼️

[fast tapir]

i bet he would have a killer mustache

[exotic cloak]

I always thought they just had two arms but damn

[empty fern]

Nubs

[fast tapir]

hm.. yes..

nubs

[empty fern]

Indeed

Wonder why blade dancer didn’t stick to arc in d2

[devout vine]

Lmao R2 certainly did 😭😭

[fast tapir]

huh

[empty fern]

(Think they talking about shadow stalkers pressing heavy a lot)

[fast tapir]

ah

man i gotta use my three of coins

still no bones of mayo

[empty fern]

Eao
Aeo
33-9
Eeo

O

[fast tapir]

just about

[analog torrent]

Was season of the splicer the season of racism
All the lore I’m reading about it features humans being terrible to eliksni

[fast tapir]

uhh

yes

[empty fern]

Yea

[fast tapir]

whole lotta racism

[empty fern]

Laksmhi moment

[fast tapir]

which is WILD

[empty fern]

Actually wasn’t lakshmi ALSO one of the copies from the veil logs?

Of
Maya I think?

[empty fern]

TOO BE FAIR

[fast tapir]

alright so if Lakshmi is Maya

does this mean maya was incredibly racist

[empty fern]

Nope, racist part was probably due to savathun and being in the last city

I can’t remember specifics

[round silo]

i got a question cause im trying to find something super specific
im trying to find lore books that specifically talks about hive experiments, i just dont know which lore book(s) talks about the topic before i go through multiple only to find nothing-

[fast tapir]

also what the fuck 💀

[empty fern]

Book of sorrows I think?

[fast tapir]

8 years ago

[empty fern]

The fuck?

[fast tapir]

dude PREDICTED that shit

god damn

[empty fern]

@ember storm

Wait where is bionicel

[ember storm]

who dares

[empty fern]

Someone 8 years ago

[ember storm]

yeah that was a popular theory

for the reasons explained in the post

what do you want

[empty fern]

Oh yea, which books feature hive experiments?

[round silo]

gonna give it a shot there then

[ember storm]

be specific

[empty fern]

No.

[round silo]

?

wdym no

[empty fern]

Meant no to wal

[ember storm]

it’s possible

[round silo]

oh

[ember storm]

I mean hive do a lot of experimentation

there’s the way that oryx’s daughters discovered the oversoul, the whole deal with omar, the general existence of shriekers

Savathun

also the weaponsmiths I guess

[round silo]

mainly searching stuff about what kind of experiments they've done so far, transmutation, experimenting with void energy from a while back n' such

[empty fern]

Just a cranky lil guy

[ember storm]

the void crystals was Savathun

[empty fern]

Savathuns sing?

[ember storm]

One of her earliest experimentations with attaining light

it was a dead end in terms of using it the way she wanted (immortality) but her brood still regularly harvests it into crystals for other means

[round silo]

just trying to gather all those kinds of experiments they've done

[ember storm]

hive are an entire civilization so they’re not really going to be related

it’s not like nasa or anything

[round silo]

might also flick through lore books that came with the witch queen dlc n' such

[empty fern]

Should check out shadowkeep

[round silo]

true

[empty fern]

Holdon I had a ohogoth image

[fast tapir]

ohogoth

[empty fern]

I couldn’t find PHOGOTH, so have pvp dungeon instead

[round silo]

wait did d1 have lore books too? i dont see anything in the ishtar collective unless im wrong ofc-

[fast tapir]

i love this map

[empty fern]

Nope, they had cards and flavor text

[round silo]

ahh

explains a lot

[empty fern]

Grim cards

[fast tapir]

ye

[ember storm]

d1 has no ingame lore reading system

you had to unlock requirements during gameplay and then look at a menu on bungie.net to read cards

[fast tapir]

yeah it had to be done online

weird system

[empty fern]

Now I wonder if savathun experimented with her lucent brood

[round silo]

Ahhh alright

[ember storm]

of course some were categorized into entries of overarching things

so there were “books”

[round silo]

I believe the website is still up?

[ember storm]

there’s only one way to harvest light crystals

[round silo]

Well that part of the website ig

[ember storm]

yes but they’re all archived on Ishtar anyway

[fast tapir]

We came down here as a squad of nine

[ember storm]

yeah but even more lambs to the slaughter than before

[devout vine]

There's a whole season dedicated to that information

[ember storm]

go read brave forbearance lore

it’s funny

[fast tapir]

where is dova when you need him

[ember storm]

fuming

[empty fern]

At Petra again?

[chrome fog]

He reached into his trenchcoat to try and give Orin her mother's ashes from before she was an Awoken - and even way before she was a Lightbearer

[empty fern]

Why?

Why did he have it?

[chrome fog]

Lakshmi-2 was in fact the result of Maya Sundaresh's ritual with the dead Exos, she even has a mindscan of Maya within her as well, which tracks with I believe Maya being the one who was a founder of the Future War Cult during the Golden Age? And also she discovered that prediction machine that they used to fuel their paranoia of "Future War" and which they used to rally support for their cause

[chrome fog]

/shurg

shurg. yes.

[empty fern]

Shrug sounds

[chrome fog]

He just had it, same way he just has exotics

[empty fern]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[chrome fog]

During season of the witch we literally go into her evil laboratory where she holds all her experiments, so yes she has

[empty fern]

Neat

[devout vine]

It's actually interesting because Lakshmi-2 was a mindscan created using the residual Veil energy on Neomuna, and because the vex have a natural attraction to the veil, it made sense that the vex prediction engine caused Lakshmi to slowly lose her mind and become more volatile as time went on

[devout vine]

Yep...
The Oubliette

[chrome fog]

I would need to read the Veil Logs again to check that, but the attraction was moreso because the Veil was what the Black Heart was a failed copy of, and they were using the Black Heart to try and harvest Ascendent/Paracausal energy.
The volatility was moreso due to the Vex predictive machine wholly feeding into one's preconceptions, feeding visions of potential timelines that only confirm one's biases. I believe there's an entry of Osiris/Brother Vance peering into the Infinite Forest which demonstrates this, and an additional entry from Splicer which reflects that same principle

@ember storm do you remember which entry these were?

[ember storm]

no

[chrome fog]

Biscuits

I'll ask Ishtar

[empty fern]

The veil entries

[chrome fog]

What do you mean

[devout vine]

Yeah..the black heart was the failed copy

I believe that Lakshmi's breakdown of her Psyche was hereditary

Maya sundaresh was already affected by the veils influence and making a mindscan pretty much guaranteed that lakshmi would follow in the same pattern

[chrome fog]

But we had no contact with the Veil until, y'know, Lightfall, as well as the fact she hasn't at all interacted with the Black Heart; it's more plausible that more exposure to "The Device" that the Future War Cult was using to peer into the future was what caused Lakshmi's meltdown, as we have evidence that it has done so in the past before
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-future-war-cult#the-device

[fickle torrent]

what is the lore behind RON? why do we even bother to go kill nezarec if he is sealed in the ship

[eager trout]

Do expansion logos have lore? Why is Lightfall's logo so different from the others?

[devout vine]

But aren't the vex a direct result of the veil?

Their whole existence is built from residual energy emanating from the veil

Its the whole reason the witness used them to create a pseudo veil

And when it failed, they weren't of any use

[chrome fog]

We have no evidence pointing towards that at all, solely that they wish to capture the Veil so as to be able to ascertain the nature of Paracausality, therefore simulate it, and assimilate all into themselves

[dim minnow]

Nezarec has been causing issues for the Neomuni

imposing bad dreams upon them

[devout vine]

That's true...
But its also the case that the power and knowledge obtained from the veil like the witness species did centuries ago was something the vex felt familiar with too

It was their black heart

[dim minnow]

also, there is a good opportunity to find much needed answers in the Witness' Pyramid

[devout vine]

Only more pure and powerful

[chrome fog]

We don't know at all what the Vex feel, though we can confirm that they don't exactly feel in a conventional sense

[ember storm]

They represent the most important things to the story

Oh wrong reply

[ember storm]

anyway same thing

[chrome fog]

1. as mentioned, the ongoing nightmares tormenting the Neomuni populace as well as some Guardians - I believe the armor follows the torture of a Titan by Nezarec, leading to him tearing out his eyes; 2) He was not solely trapped on the Pyramid, he was regrowing within the crystal we see from the beginning of the Raid all the way to the end where he bursts out of it. It was just his head or some other small part of his physical form that got struck by the Traveler's Light beam, which had regrown his body

[devout vine]

No, they're a unifying consciousness...
But there's also evidence to suggest that, that observation is false

Take into account the factions the vex separate themselves in...
Either as a mechanical measure or just in abberant behaviour

Osiris did say he has witnessed accounts of abberant behaviour in the forest

[chrome fog]

Sol Divisive and conventionally attributed to their overexposure to the Black Heart and their general experiments with Ascendent/Paracausal power, to the point that they have been somewhat excluded from the rest of the Collective out of concerns for compromise - which were proven true by their service to the Witness;

However that doesn't mean they "feel" stuff as we do, they are solely drive to the most optimized route in which they achieve total assimilation of reality and perpetually simulate all possibilities to better ascertain all rules of reality. And Paracausality - being outside of normal causality aka Physics - poses as a danger to the Vex as it is something they cannot combat against, which is why Sol Divisive's directive was to find ways to harness paracausal power in some way and develop ontological weapons to better achieve the species wide goal of universal assimilation.

We get information on the Vex thought process from Clovis' research
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/clovis-brays-logbook-missing-pages

This better illustrates the point that the Vex don't think normal

As well as just generally suggesting that they don't exactly have a higher thought process, solely a drive to assimilate all and then proceed to simulate all reality

The division into factions is to attribute efforts towards different approaches of achieving their end goal

And to the original reply I had already outlined that the FWC's "Device" was already prone to causing mental psychosis in those who experienced its visions, which is the more likely explanation that the Device's detrimental effects paired with the Endless Night literally bringing about the worse in everyone under it lead to Lakshmi-2's breakdown

[analog torrent]

When did Saint and Osiris become a thing? There doesn’t seem to be anything romantic in The Pigeon and the Phoenix, despite the title, but the Hyperborean Pinion lore implies they were married before Saint went into the Forest. Were they together for a while and just low key about it?

[chrome fog]

The only reference was to each other as "brothers", with the revelation of their relationship being relatively recent yes

[ember storm]

brother was more of a spiritual title as they referred to their ghosts the same and Saint called speaker “father”

[spiral crane]

Lore wise what is the most commonly chosen class

[empty fern]

Whoever you find the most of in this pic

Get to looking

[spiral crane]

https://tenor.com/view/взгляд-2000-ярдов-война-war-soldier-gif-3632617944134077161

[devout vine]

Titans

Easy

Too slow

Gotta be faster than that

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/final-fantasy-vii-remake-cloud-strife-tifa-lockhart-aerith-gainsborough-cloti-gif-27060423

[chrome fog]

Technically Hunters if you look at player counts

But also again, gameplay does not always reflect canon

[devout vine]

She meant the pic didn't she?

If its in general, of course its hunters

[empty fern]

Fools

[devout vine]

They're the fav child

[chrome fog]

There's a lot of cloaks in the front

[devout vine]

Of bungo

[devout vine]

There's a fireteam of three titans on the right

[chrome fog]

Whatever

[ember storm]

you ever wonder what happened to fireteam The Bad Guys Don’t Care What We Call Ourselves Do They

[chrome fog]

Point is we don't know specifically how many of each subclass there is

[spiral crane]

Who is dominos ghaul

Dominus

[chrome fog]

So, slight Cabal history

They had been developed into an imperial empire culture, basically Space Roman Rhinos, and from this they initially had a group of government leaders named the Praetorate and continued the Cabal Empire down the same path of conquering alien species and planets. Calus didn't like this because it didn't give him the opportunity to indulge in his hedonistic habits, so he overthrew and exiled the Praetorate. Calus ruled over the Cabal Empire for some time, and the Praetorate made a plan to make a comeback, which involved a prestigious young gladiator named Ghaul. They ended up overthrowing Calus with the assistance of Caital and I believe her mentor Umun'Arath. Ghaul then consolidated the Cabal forces into the Red Legion and led them on a campaign to capture the Traveler to harness the Light for themselves as well as conquer Earth

Dominus Ghaul then proceeded to do Red War.

In which he was successful in capturing the Traveler and cutting off our connection to the Light. He was also able to take the Light for himself to use in our final confrontation with him, after a long while that involved deliberation with the Speaker on how to earn the Light. Which is how we get the Speaker's amazing roast

[craggy agate]

lore chat i’ve a lore question

what’s the emissary doing now do we know anything about them lately

[devout vine]

You mean the nine?

[craggy agate]

i’ve lost track of the lore since i stopped playing around haunted

uh yeah i guess the nine in general

[devout vine]

I'm not sure...
There hasn't been much on the nine since season of infamy.

From what I remember recently tho, there is lore pertaining to the Nine Combating the ahamkara on venus

[trim grotto]

We haven't heard of her for some time.

[trim grotto]

Uh, we have lore on the Nine wishing to the Ahamkara before the Great Hunt, but that was... centuries ago.

[trim grotto]

I mean, there was the Prophesy Dungeon

[solid latch]

Can someone try their best to summarize the destiny 2 story like what’s going on and what’s our goal. Into one small paragraph.

[jagged badge]

Mean space guy has caused problems for eons, we need to go stop it once and for all

Boom

[craggy agate]

sad, i like her

guess it makes sense the witness and stuff is probably a bigger deal 😭

[craggy agate]

is prophecy the most like.. recent mention of her? i don’t recall anything after arrivals

wow that was a while ago

[jagged badge]

Season of the Deep

[craggy agate]

ah i didn’t play that makes sense

[jagged badge]

https://youtu.be/8E0g7n6CC-w?si=Kv4m72K8ccSnJA48

[craggy agate]

hm that was quite interesting actuslly

ok thank you for sating my curiosity

[jagged badge]

No problem!

[analog torrent]

yoooo look at this https://tiermaker.com/create/destiny-2-lore-books-1618051 (created before witch queen, presumably)
drop your rankings

[analog torrent]

Maraid and The Forsaken Prince aren't on here

objective truth

[dim minnow]

No one told me the Fallen Warpriest boss is literally Kridis

[dim minnow]

Legacy's Lament is peak if you ask me

[analog torrent]

Noted
Putting it on the to-read list 🙏

[eager trout]

At this point each channel here is like a club for those who like to talk about a specific thing

[dim minnow]

Yes, each channel specifies what topic they are for

[eager trout]

I mean like, each channel basically has its own group of people who mostly only talk there

[devout vine]

You mean Dark priestess Kridis....

[dim minnow]

Yes

I managed to get her as the Onslaught boss for the first time earlier

[eager trout]

Why is Cayde's chicken called Colonel? Is it a KFC reference or is that a coincidence?

[dim minnow]

She's scary to fight

[devout vine]

Onslaught boss?
She's a boss in onslaught?

What?

[dim minnow]

Not sure, that's just the name he gave her

[dim minnow]

There are three Onslaught final bosses
Siegehook Ogre
Field razer Tormentor
And Fallen Warpriest

[grand jungle]

I hv a dumb question bout the void soul and arc soul

[devout vine]

Is this onslaught 1830?

[dim minnow]

The Fallen Warpriest has Kridis's model and she chases you around with Stasis Swords just like Kridis

[chrome fog]

Trust us, the rest of the server lets us know when we breach containment, or when the stray genchat individuals come in calling us nerds

[dim minnow]

Wave 50 normal or legend

[eager trout]

No, they're not our children

[dim minnow]

This week she's the legend boss

[grand jungle]

Are the souls like sentient?..

[analog torrent]

The genchat philistines cannot comprehend the deep lore of that one ramen Eliksni Amanda talked to that triggered a lynch mob

[chrome fog]

Not… really? But kind of? A small temporary existence meant to assist us for a short period of time

[dim minnow]

All because Amanda didn't want to admit that she taught him a swear word used as an unsult

[chrome fog]

My god Splicer’s lore book really was just this

[grand jungle]

Best buds

[dim minnow]

They also cannot comprehend that the Awoken were created because a guy was killed by a Rabbit embryo

[analog torrent]

Marasenna was wild

[trim grotto]

In the deepest reaches, a pact made between unknowable entities created something from nothing. It lives on. - Child of the Old Gods
An electric eel poised for attack. Electrons sing at your approach. Another familiar joins your ranks. Arc Soul
This is about all we know of them. So... maybe?

[chrome fog]

Also includes the cow thing

[trim grotto]

And by extension, the survival of Dark Age Humanity

[analog torrent]

Elsewhere, the Warlock that invented the subclass buddies: haha these catchphrases are gonna go so hard

[grand jungle]

Oo that’s cool I like that

[analog torrent]

Read somewhere that there's a deeper meaning to the cow thing but at the time I thought it was a throwaway bit of worldbuilding
Is there a deeper meaning?

[eager trout]

Really, how much of the Warlock lore is actually true and not just mundane things described in the most poetic way?

[grand jungle]

Didn’t know arc soul was a eel

Or sort of one

[eager trout]

It's in the Aspect's picture-

[trim grotto]

It's neat! Not entirely clear, but it's a pleasant ambiguity.

[grand jungle]

I shall use eel to kill dreg

YIPPE

[trim grotto]

Throw the Eel

Eelock

[eager trout]

Solar Soul is probably going to be a bird or something

Then there's Void Soul being a black hole

[trim grotto]

That's the Child of the Old Gods

[grand jungle]

Aren’t we getting a solar soul ?

In fs

[trim grotto]

Yeah with FS

[grand jungle]

God fs is packed

[dim minnow]

It is I think

[grand jungle]

Like aren’t we gonna be lore accurate guardians ?

[chrome fog]

Lore accurate Guardians would have maybe one subclass they really hold onto in reality, and lore accurate The Guardian would only be able to handle one subclass at a single time

#📚lore-discussion message

[grand jungle]

Can a guardian like retire ? Just want to live they live ?

[empty fern]

Probably

[analog torrent]

Efrideet did that, she's off in some pacifist colony of Guardians
Guardians also don't have to serve the Traveler/Last City. There's this ghost hunter named Cyrell who left his ghost and goes around killing other ghosts

There's also a Master Chief easter egg where he rejected being rezzed

Dark Age lore has a lot of non-traditional (as we modern day Guardians see it) Lightbearers and Ghosts if you wanna look further into it

[chrome fog]

Sloane was also in ownership of an apartment in the Last City, so it’s not much of a stretch to say that if they refuse service to the Vanguard they can probably find space in the City to live in

Construction jobs, policing with the Forces of the City, various other positions which might prove extremely dangerous for a normal human could most likely see the employ of a Lightbearer

[candid inlet]

dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

Message Link to #📚lore-discussion

1. She was forced to work in the Last City as an Emissary as punishment for calling an airstrike that killed 3 fireteams of Guardians and their Ghosts who were fighting deeply entrenched Fallen Wolves.
2. While in exile, she showed great disdain towards the people of the city thinking that the "don't know their place".
3. Between Red War and Forsaken, when Cayde apprehended Fikrul and Uldren, she decided to lock Uldren up in the Prison of Elders alongside Fikrul and the other Scorn Barons and made sure only her, Cayde, and Variks were the only ones to know that the Prince was still alive.
4. After this, she left the task of curing Uldren and Fikrul's respective conditions solely on Variks' shoulders which could be seen as one of the leading factors behind his decision to abandon the Prison starting the vents of Forsaken. Could of asked techeuns or even the Last City to help, but no, must not make her people any less happy I guess.
5. She heavily despises Zavala even going to the point to where she fantasizes about being superior to him and mopping up his dissolved remains off of the floor. Not even joking here.
6. I really doubt she had no idea what Uldren was planning until she failed to stop him at the EDZ. She may not have known about Riven being behind it, but she had to know that Uldren took over the Tangled Shore so he could get to the Dreaming City. Maybe the Vanguard would have gotten involved if they knew Uldren could unleash a Taken Ahamkara, and maybe the Dreaming City fisaco wouldn't have been so bad. Instead Petra kept it a secret until after Uldren was able to reach his goal.
7. She wasn't even the one who summoned Guardians to aid the Awoken in the Dreaming City, that would be Paladin Kamala Rior.
8. Variks questioned quite a few of Petra's decisions as acting regent, including her lack of action towards preventing the Scorned Barons from growing in power.
9. Despite everything that has happened thus far, she has refused to change unlike Mara.

Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from · Jun 18, 2023, 6:34 AM

[dim minnow]

@prime rover

[trim grotto]

You forgot gaslighting Crow about Fikrul again

[prime rover]

oh neat

was this last city emissary deal a d1 thing

[dim minnow]

can't really add it in, character limitation

[dim minnow]

yes

[prime rover]

what about point 3

I didn't play d1, what happened before that

[dim minnow]

Uldren was presumed dead after the start of the Taken War (he wasn't)

he was corrupted by Darkness as a reuslt and was being manipulated by Riven

he ended up causing a lot of trouble for the Fallen and Awoken

[prime rover]

taken war being?

[chrome fog]

War on the Dreadnaught, when we started directly attacking Oryx

[prime rover]

I only vaguely remember uldren just leaving and trying to do something snazzy with the whole people pleaser deal

well, just mara, but same deal

[chrome fog]

Uldren had already been slightly corrupted by Darkness in his time exploring the Black Garden and exposure to the Black Heart, but then narrowly avoiding death after his ship had forced to crash from the Dreadnaught’s weapon firing pushed him further

[chrome fog]

The excursions into the Black Garden is most likely what you’re thinking of

[chrome fog]

Anyways, he was delirious and went on to kill innocent Awoken and Eliksni across the Tangled Shore, which ended in his imprisonment in the Prison of Elders, though not before he had wished a dying Fikrul to get better, which Riven granted by taking some of the residual Darkness about Uldren, mixed it with some ambient Ether, and imbued it into Fikrul, turning him into the first Scorn

[prime rover]

and who was fikrul before this whole scornification thing

or is that not really relevant

[chrome fog]

Just a dreg

[trim grotto]

Lies

Archon Priest

[ember storm]

he was in the house of exile pity party at the time, though

[chrome fog]

Word I didn’t know

Either of those

[eager trout]

According the Unforeseen Consequences' lore, Cayde is back permanently