📚lore-discussion

[vital lodge]

squidgame

aight peace

[fast tapir]

this is the perfect theme for Mael.. i just cant figure out why..

[vital lodge]

wait lemme fix the file name

nvm

the song is called "Mael Theme"

[exotic cloak]

You clearly haven't experienced a group of thralls running to your back while you are dealing with something greater

[dim minnow]

kid named Thrall with Blackout active:

[vital lodge]

I was a feedback fence titan for a good while

[next bobcat]

Oof

[vital lodge]

the melee immunity was nice

[next bobcat]

was

you played feedback before rework?

[chrome fog]

Oh Chrono, have you heard Mark’s voice before?

[shadow crypt]

What is SIVA and the backstory behind it?

[trim grotto]

[trim grotto]

Nanites! Intended as colony construction tools (and other applications), created by Wilhelmina Bray, Clovis's granddaughter, and the sister of Ana and Elsie.

[trim grotto]

I hope you slip into Titan's methane ocean

[exotic cloak]

I mean

I literally gone to the deeps of it

[shadow crypt]

Nanites..?

How did they play such a big role in the Destiny universe?

Seems like a small thing to me

[empty fern]

So basically

Beyond light was our rise of iron 2

[exotic cloak]

There was Siva on beyond mid?

[trim grotto]

SIVA was used to help create Neomuna, as colony ships were loaded with it. It was used as bait by Rasputin to kill Iron Lord Felwinter, with the Iron Lords as collateral damage.
It was used by the Devil Splicers to augment themselves and release a poorly programmed plague upon the Cosmodrome. And more!

[empty fern]

It’s related to siva

[dim minnow]

SIVA was instrumental in building human colonies outside of Earth

[empty fern]

SIVA (insert fact here)

[exotic cloak]

SIVA resurrected Taniks

[dim minnow]

then we killed him again

[exotic cloak]

Just to him to die again, loser

[dim minnow]

then he was brought back with Crypt technology

only to die again

[shadow crypt]

Kinda confused here

[exotic cloak]

Double loser

Well

[shadow crypt]

I thought Rasputin and the Iron Lords were both on the good side

[exotic cloak]

Quadruple loser

[shadow crypt]

Why would they try to kill each other?

[shadow warren]

Daddy issues

Felwinter was essentially Rasputins son right

Or was he a copy of Rasputin

[trim grotto]

Bit of a long story
@dim minnow can you handle this
Mobile is pain for longer stories like this

[shadow crypt]

How did Rasputin have a son

Isn’t he a Warmind

[shadow warren]

Not conventionally ofc lol

Idk ask dova

I doubt I’m right in how Rasputin created felwinter

[empty fern]

[shadow warren]

I wanna say it was an upload consciousness sort of thing?

Or Rasputin just created an exo

The former wouldn’t make sense

[chrome fog]

Dang autocorrect, I literally fumbled spelling it correctly three times for “Mark”

[chrome fog]

Felwinter was the resurrected frame of one of Rasputin’s subminds: Siddhartha Golem. Its purpose was to allow Rasputin to interact with human society and further progress his growth as an individual person. However the Collapse happened, and so this essentially Exo frame with a part of Rasputin in it was resurrected by a Ghost and became the legendary warlock and Iron Lord, Felwinter. Rasputin, however, felt that his “son” was being taken away from him by the Traveler (also doesn’t help that Clovis meant for the framework of Rasputin to replace the Traveler and then insert his consciousness in place of the AI to become the protector god of humanity, but that’s neither here nor there). As such, these conflicting feelings were expressed in Rasputin constantly setting combat frames and Warsats upon Felwinter in hopes that somehow this will eventually lead to him coming back to his “father”. This culminates in the discovery of the SIVA vault by Felwinter, who wanted to use the colony construction nanotech to assist in developing the Last City. Rasputin killed a majority of the Iron Lords as they made their way into the bunker with the SIVA printer, and then he took control of the SIVA itself to infest the soon to be trapped Iron Lords and then finally reclaim his “son”. Saladin was the only survivor of this incident. Years later, splicers from the House of Devils would break into this bunker again and use the technology to pose a major threat - this being the SIVA Outbreak that we deal with in the Rise of Iron expansion for D1.

Fun Fact: you kill three SIVA Abominations which have the armor of three iron lords on them, one of which is Felwinter’s

[shadow crypt]

Also another question

Who is Taniks and why is he always coming back?

[shadow warren]

I was half right

Sorta

[chrome fog]

An Eliksni mercenary who just kept coming back; did not fall under any House banner, was hired by any one who could afford his services, was also unusually cruel

[trim grotto]

Fallen mercenary and Guardian killer. Killed Andal Brask, former Hunter Vanguard and friend of Cayde-6.
Mostly machine.

[shadow warren]

Why he keeps coming back is up to bungie

It’s just happened several times

[chrome fog]

Rah I’m on that zone

[shadow warren]

Being mostly machine makes it easier ig

Actually that probably explains it entirely lol

[shadow crypt]

@chrome fog Forgot to thank you for the paragraph

It was helpful

[chrome fog]

He died to Cayde after Taniks killed his best friend Andal Brask, then he died to us again in a… Strike I believe? And then we kill him again in Rise of Iron’s raid/dungeon, souped up on SIVA, then we kill him again in Deep Stone Crypt raid where he is brought back via the Exo technology aboard the Braytech orbital station over Europa

Oh also he just does tech heresies

[shadow warren]

Was he in wrath of the machine?

[chrome fog]

The end boss

Wasn’t he?

[shadow warren]

I think that was something else

Yea aksis prime

[chrome fog]

Lemme finish Patrick singing zoo wap and I’ll see

[shadow warren]

Taniks was a strike boss the first time we fought him tho

[shadow crypt]

That was Aksis

[shadow crypt]

Before he died to us in a strike how did he come back alive?

[shadow warren]

I would assume through augmentation

[shadow crypt]

Also

Were there rogue Guardians?

[chrome fog]

A couple, yeah

[shadow crypt]

Hence banned weapons right?

Guardians killing Guardians

[chrome fog]

Most infamous was Dredgen Yor, was a Titan named Rezzyl Azzir that used Rose, when he added some hive bones to his gun as ornaments, he didn’t realize they were cursed and he got slowly corrupted

[chrome fog]

Not really? But also yes kinda

[shadow crypt]

oops

[chrome fog]

Crimson and the gun from D1 it takes lineage from we’re both used to kill guardians in crucible of I remember correctly

[shadow crypt]

Red Death?

[chrome fog]

Was taken down by Shin Malphur as revenge for Yor killing his predecessor Jarren Ward; posthumously inspired a cult following which was gathered by Shin - under the guise of “Dredgen Vale” - and aside from taking the same title of Dredgen also mass produced Thorn as the exotic we commonly use - the original was too corruptive for use, so we cleansed it, turned it back into Rose, then made it into Lumina

[chrome fog]

Believe so, yeah

OoOooOoohhhoooo 2 hours

[chrome fog]

Oh, also Shin gathered these “Shadows of Yor” to see just who’d so easily try to be an edgelord dunce, then he and a buddy who was helping maintain the group staged a guardian killing when Shin shot the friend with Golden Gun, spooking all the Shadows of Yor into disbanding and hopefully abandoning their desire to be like Dredge Yor

[shadow crypt]

Interesting

[chrome fog]

Since trying to mimic a serial killer is kind of not a good thing to be; it’s cool fashion and style for us players, but in-universe these guys would be an alt-right group who just want to kill indiscriminately

[warm gazelle]

Is it still canon that the player count = total number of Guardians in-universe?

[chrome fog]

I don’t remember that being a thing though that possible might still be true

[warm gazelle]

I've been trying to find an actual source for that knowledge, I just keep seeing it said around the Destiny subreddit.

[chrome fog]

Mmm then it’s questionable at best

[warm gazelle]

It would be kind of crazy if it was true. There are over 44 million players.

That would be over three times more than the USSR's total active personnel at the height of WW2, which is the biggest army in history.

[chrome fog]

There is a choice of bodies of about the total population of humanity over the course of time up to a couple centuries (at minimum) past our current year irl, which is a lot

[warm gazelle]

yeah we just never see numbers actually get that high in Destiny I don't think. Sure doesn't seem like the Vanguard has millions in manpower.

you'd think they'd spare more than 6 to try to kill Oryx at least

if so

[chrome fog]

The Great Cataclysm is a big reason why we don't launch big offensives of Guardian forces, as well as why we're so reliant on the Strike system.
We sent almost all the Guardians we had on hand to reclaim Luna from Hive forces, and in not understanding how the mechanics of Throneworlds operated, the entire Guardian army was nearly wiped. Then there is also the Awoken fleet and Harbingers' assault on the Dreadnaught, which resulted in the death of about all the Awoken's magical creatures the Harbingers as well as causing the disappearance of leadership within the Awoken structure save for Sjur Petra

[shadow crypt]

Oh shit

Nvm

[warm gazelle]

even in the Great Cataclysm

only hundreds died

[chrome fog]

Yeah, and is that preferable to maybe one-to-six guardians dying on a mission?

[warm gazelle]

it's a war

if only hundreds die, and you have an army of tens of millions

that's not bad at all

you should see what the losses were like during some of the actual biggest wars in history

[chrome fog]

It's not tactically smart to sacrifice about all of your forces for an ineffective offense when you can pinpoint and strike at integral resources and support for the enemy, as well as take out leadership and equipment at a much lower cost

Like, there's a reason it's called the Great Cataclysm

And why it's so vital we pivoted to the Strike system

[warm gazelle]

it's called the great cataclysm because hundreds of guardians dying represented a significant loss of guardian life, which is why I'm pretty sure there aren't tens of millions of guardians floating about

[chrome fog]

Because as much as we can rise up again, throwing all of us into a meat grinder with the possibility of Final Death means we are using up vital manpower and offensive capability for essentially nothing

[warm gazelle]

if you can't handle hundreds of losses from a single battle it's not because you have an abundance of manpower to draw from

[chrome fog]

It's an issue that hasn't been present as an issue as of a majority of in-universe military conflicts during this age, to which the Strike approach has proven successful

Plus, it's just numbers

If a smaller number of operatives can deal with a major threat, massive efficiency and possibilty to station forces elsewhere

If they die, it's a relatively small number of individuals compared to sending a much larger force

https://tenor.com/view/todd-howard-it-just-works-bethesda-this-all-just-works-gif-20598651

In fact we've had more failures deploying larger centralized forces as opposed to asymmetric strike teams hitting vital enemy targets

[warm gazelle]

sure. still don't buy that there are tens of millions of guardians though.

[chrome fog]

Great Cataclysm, offensive against the Dreanaught, fucking the beginning of Lightfall

[dim minnow]

a single guardian can take down well over a hundred of our enemies, but our numbers are still much less than them

[dim minnow]

Great Disaster*

[chrome fog]

I have an hour before bionicle talk

[dim minnow]

and our attack against Oryx went pretty damn well

[chrome fog]

No, the Awoken fleet

[dim minnow]

the Awoken fleet weren't us

besides, Mara lost on purpose

[warm gazelle]

just uh... don't check how many times my party wiped

[dim minnow]

not that she could have won

she definitely couldn't

but losing was still a part of her plan

[chrome fog]

Regardless, not a good look when trying to argue the validity of major offensives opposed to tactical strikes as almost every recent conflict in-universe did not end well

[dim minnow]

I'd argue that the last major offensive we took was the opening to Shadowkeep

since that mission had us matchmake with other guardians in the mission

[chrome fog]

Oh fair, that's a good example

[dim minnow]

and there were several Vanguard ships aiding us

they even gave us tanks

while we did not exactly stop the Hidden Swarm there, we were able to find Eris Morn which started our journey to getting inside of the Moon Pyramid

granted the Hidden Swarm were nowhere near the threat they were before

Crota and Oryx were dead and Savathun was goading them to surface just so we could smash them

they were sloppy fourths by the time Xivu Arath took over

[chrome fog]

Man

How unfortunate

[dim minnow]

ans that's lowballing the amount of times they got passed around

[chrome fog]

And how many additional asterisks next to effective large scale offensives, with 1-3 for failed offensives in lead

[warm gazelle]

tbf the sample size is small

and probably not statistically significant

[chrome fog]

But they still serve as precedent, which vital when considering dedicating a majority of resources to that

[dim minnow]

still, the numbers difference between us and everyone don't lie

if the enemy is left without good leaders, then it becomes much easier to wipe out the rank and file

[chrome fog]

Which again, Strikes have proven useful for targeting and isolating important individuals within command structures

coughEmpireHuntscough

[warm gazelle]

maybe, but even failure can be instructive. D-Day wasn't the first amphibious landing the allies attempted on mainland Europe. The Dieppe raid came first, and though it was a failure, they learned a lot and eventually, well, the rest is history

Obviously, though, yeah our Strikes and Raids have gotten the job done.

[chrome fog]

These failures resulted in decisive defeats that had little to no effectiveness against our enemy, with only one example in which it was effective and that only being the case because we had already weakened the enemy forces through Strikes and targeted assaults with smaller groups than even a full army unit

... sorry I should've read second part

[warm gazelle]

I remember when Taken King came out, the whole ship was a new worldspace you could just walk around in. It was weird to just be vibing in the middle the flagship of who for all we knew at the time was the biggest bad guy around

Kinda made the whole thing feel like it wasn't that big of a deal but I don't think that was what Bungie was going for.

[exotic cloak]

I can buy it but

what is the actual population of the last city?

And the actual ghost population too because not all ghost have guardians

And that, apparently the big majority of guardians are still learning to domain 1 subclass

Maybe Vanguard Leaders, Young Wold and Raid Fireteams can take entire armys without major problems but taking that into account

Oh wait I got confused but yeah that

Would be nice to know the actual city and ghost numbers

[warm gazelle]

if there really are over 40 million guardians then there's gotta be hundreds of millions of people in the city. there's no way most people are guardians

[exotic cloak]

I mean

Considering every day new guardians rise and we are pretty much dead people from

everywhere

That doesnt sound too crazy actually

[warm gazelle]

idk, i guess it's possible

think it'd be lame though

when we're defending the city we'd be mostly just be defending ourselves this whole time

[exotic cloak]

Consider that we are defending what reamins of humanity

Maybe the major population of last city are walking war machines and then theres just normal people trying to live

So yeah a bunch of demigods decided to protect normal people

thats cool actually

[warm gazelle]

yeah, still don't like it. means more when the normal people outnumber the demigods imo

[trim grotto]

I can answer this
Remind me in one hour
I've got lore quotes

[exotic cloak]

Is kinda cool this way though

Think that before city age there were the warlords pretty much doing whatever the fuck they wanted

So now we have like this complete opposite were all the powerful dudes decided to build a city to keep the very last of normal people that is still around

[warm gazelle]

I kinda wish there were still warlords with their own territories about. fun concept that we just never got to see.

[exotic cloak]

Yeah

I really dissapointed on that tbh

Like, Warlords sound like 10x more interesting that some of our actual enemies

[warm gazelle]

plus a good introduction to the idea that light =/= good

[exotic cloak]

I mean without that we already got the idea but pretty much just three persons on the tower got it

[warm gazelle]

it was a big surprise to me when I started Destiny 2 lemme tell you.

[chrome fog]

We've had a guardian who was a resurrected Egyptian

So we're talking the total expanse of human history, so long as their remains are available

[trim grotto]

Alrighty so
Both these quotes come from the WQ CE, Ikora's Hidden Logbook.
IKO-006 ranks in the upper fraction of the 99th percentile of assessed Warlocks on most available metrics of precision, restraint, and raw power. She is, in simplistic terms, a fifth sigma Guardian: 1 in 3.5 million. Given that millions of Guardians have been activated over the centuries since the Collapse, and assuming that performance of Guardians on these metrics is normally distributed, we would expect about ten Guardians of similar power to have existed.
In other words, in total over the hundreds/thousands of years since the Collapse, there have been roughly 35 million Guardians active. To repeat, this means in total, including the dead, lost, MIA, Lightless, perhaps even those that time forgot in the depths of the Vault of Glass.
...are sorely mistaken and ignorant of basic statistics. (These complaints come from the same people who ask why we haven't reconquered the whole solar system with our vast strength, forgetting how many Guardians are either in abeyance after exhaustion, still working on mastering their first subclass, or already committed to the protection of populations and resources here on Earth.)
This part is self explanatory.
Finally, a quote from Queen Mara in the Marasenna/Awoken of the Reef, after she was killed by Oryx, the Taken King.

Inanna at least gave her people some warning; she told her minister to have her worshippers lament, drum, pray, and lacerate their buttocks. Inanna told her minister to beg the gods to save her. Mara has not. Instead, she has enlisted Eris and several million mad dancing Guardians to go knock off the god who killed her.```

[warm gazelle]

Wow.

That's a lot.

Is there an estimate of how many are MIA/KIA?

[trim grotto]

Nothing that isn't speculation.

[warm gazelle]

Can Guardians have children?

[chrome fog]

They'll never give hard numbers for something like that

[chrome fog]

... not that we know yet, no

Zavala's son was adopted and Saladin's ghost has mentioned his inability to have a child, but we don't know if that's just an issue with him or for all Lightbearers

[trim grotto]

We have no supporting evidence, and one implication suggesting otherwise.

So probably not*, but maybe.

[heady monolith]

all im hearing is that guardians arent trying hard enough

[warm gazelle]

You'd think if they could, we would know of at least one kid by now. I'm guessing they probably can't.

[chrome fog]

Considering that Destiny still has to fit into the Teen rating for the ESRB, aside from outright stating a couple with a Guardian as a partner also having a child/children that they produced there is very little likelyhood this will be explored

[warm gazelle]

Not even an off-hand mention of someone starting a family, anywhere.

[trim grotto]

This is one of the questions in my FAQ actually
Here's the detailed version of my answer
"The topic of this question has never truly been broached, leaving it largely to theory. Although the topic was nearly brought up by Isirah, the Ghost of Saladin Forge, in the following excerpt, it doesn't clarify whether it is an inability, if it refers to Saladin alone, or whether it is a choice. *"You'll never have a son, his Ghost had said, "but it isn't too late for you to take an apprentice."* In the past, Zavala had raised a son, Hakim, but Hakim was adopted as a child. The lack of any supporting evidence on the topic of biological children in general suggests that at the very least that Guardians do not have kids. Whether this is a choice or inability is unclear."

[warm gazelle]

I wonder why they wouldn't be able to, though. Lightbearers being infertile is kind of random.

[chrome fog]

Also, leaving it vague allows players to create their own fantasy as to whether or not the ability to have children would play into the story of their Guardian; stating outright "yes" or "no" means that they set a canonical limitation for exploring either actual guardian children or the struggle a Guardian might have wanting to be a parent but unable to actually conceive one

Most likely just the ESRB rating in the way and disinterest in elaborating this detail

[warm gazelle]

That doesn't really make sense because you could just come up with your own reason as to why your Guardian can't have kids.

[trim grotto]

Also a Guardian's kid wouldn't have Light. They'd just be a kid. Their parent would watch then grow old.

[chrome fog]

A possible dilemma for a player's guardian to explore if Guardians can conceive

Of the child growing old

Not the having the Light part, that's explicitly caused by the connection to the Traveler via their Ghost

[warm gazelle]

The other question was how many people live in the Last City. Do we have an estimate on that?

[chrome fog]

Equally so, you can make up a reason for why a Guardian couple has a child for either possibility; again, having the vagueness of the possibility is better left for the community to explore if they really want to

I will save Bionicle ranting for when I have slept

[trim grotto]

Same as before - nothing that isn't speculation.

[warm gazelle]

Hm. So we have around 35 million Guardians to ever exist. Do we know about the distribution class-wise? Are most Guardians Warlocks? Are there fewer Titans than there are Hunters? And so on.

[trim grotto]

If we were to go by player distribution, Hunters have the majority. But not in lore itself, no.

However

We do know of less common subclasses.

[warm gazelle]

yeah I saw the Guardian Games results

everyone likes playing Hunters

[trim grotto]

I certainly do

[paper maple]

So how do you think Oryx would have reacted if he found out the Witness lied to them? Would he have been cool with it, or fought it?

[trim grotto]

[paper maple]

Hunter's are the most stylish

[warm gazelle]

Going back to D1 I have always played Titan.

PvP was painful as fuck back then.

[trim grotto]

Honestly? I think he'd have gone with it. Maybe challenged the Witness, but in a way, the way his race was duped does actually fit in with the Sword Logic.

It proves they were the lesser beings, which is in a way, exactly what the Logic seeks to prove as it is.

[warm gazelle]

even the Lucent Hive who've given up their worms still abide by Sword Logic AFAIK so that tracks

now if Oryx knew that he could be rid of the worm and be blessed by the Light and free to do as he pleases...?

Well, we were close to finding out what the answer to that was.

Maybe.

[paper maple]

I'd have loved it if he turned out to be really nice as a Lightbearer, tells a lot of dad jokes

[warm gazelle]

Lightbearer Hive has gotta be a weird gig.

[chrome fog]

Theeeey’re weird; the regular dudes are still Hive as we know them i believe, but two Hive Lightbearers are in an unending battle between each other essentially proclaiming they won through the Sword Logic, but jury’s out of that’s actually the case

At the very least they have a stockpile of Light that they can satiate their worms with

[warm gazelle]

I thought the Lightbearers didn't have worms anymore.

the non-Lightbearer Lucent Hive do, but they feed them with Light

[chrome fog]

The Lightbearers don’t, no, which makes that entry with the Hive Warlock and Titan constantly killing each other equally questionable, though it’s probably a part of Savathun’s experiments to ensure she has a back-up

[warm gazelle]

old habits die hard ig

[chrome fog]

They’re doing this in a specifically designed room as well as announcing a specific phrase of their victory over the other, which more so suggests it’s another of Savathun’s experiments

[hardy anvil]

@real ingot who is Osiris

[real ingot]

:3

[dim minnow]

yo what are you doing here?

[real ingot]

being mischievous

[jagged badge]

Why are y’all off topic in here

Should be talking about Gambit

[hardy anvil]

gambit lore?

[blazing wasp]

Uh

Ding

Amarite

[velvet flax]

This is a Malfeasance moment

[exotic cloak]

I was talking more about theme about space but that too

Like, guardians rise from every part of the earth and every planet or moon

While Last City are pretty much them and refuges from differente regions of the earth

[ember storm]

gambit gambiy gambity

[exotic cloak]

what is the lore behind everything turning into gambit playbook

[hardy anvil]

you really want to know?

[exotic cloak]

Is Drifter related?

[blazing wasp]

Damn, you must be single, since you know so little about

Dates

[exotic cloak]

Ukulele

I look Murican to you?

[blazing wasp]

What?

[exotic cloak]

just remembered is april fools

[jagged badge]

Wait

[exotic cloak]

and, well thats not a thing here

[ember storm]

what

[jagged badge]

Am I going insane or is that paragon new Uke?

[blazing wasp]

It isn't????

[blazing wasp]

Yeah the mods stole my yellow

[ember storm]

can i have the yellow

[blazing wasp]

No.

[jagged badge]

Always good to know I’m not going insane

[exotic cloak]

Spain is very cristian country so today is probably related to religion

more than jokes

[blazing wasp]

Wait did you assume April fools is a american thing

[exotic cloak]

I guess but I will check my history book

[blazing wasp]

I am norwegian you goddamn toast

[blazing wasp]

And it's frequently done by more countries because its so popular

I've gotten April fools from several people in Asia

[exotic cloak]

Ah yeah

April Fools here is not in April

is on december

[blazing wasp]

Excuse me

[exotic cloak]

Ah yeah in the other hispanic countries is also in december

On Venezuela where im from and here in spain both is 28 of december so yeah

[eager trout]

Ah yes, the best prank is having the day called April Fools on December

[chrome fog]

Oh I fucking thought it was circling something in Drifter’s hand like those name soundalike memes, it’s just the D for D2

[exotic cloak]

Is called day of the saint innocents

[deft bison]

[past junco]

Gambit

[shadow crypt]

Gambit

[crisp wasp]

alr so i’ve been gone from destiny since shadowkeep i came back and there’s mods and stuff and i wanna know what’s the best hunter build for raids and pve

[ember storm]

wrong

[solid jasper]

blight ranger

[shadow crypt]

crazy

[jagged badge]

You’ll want to go #✨destiny-discussion for questions like that

Fuck, that’s not the questions channel

[crisp wasp]

they are all gambit playbook

[jagged badge]

Damn this April Fools thing lmao

[crisp wasp]

yea

[shadow crypt]

#✨destiny-discussion

Damn

[solid jasper]

#1119630715315830864

[jagged badge]

[solid jasper]

oops

this is interesting

https://discord.com/channels/297116500232372224/1119630083611705566

there

[jagged badge]

That’s still gen chat and not the questions channel

[solid jasper]

wait i lied

no

that offtopic

questions is 3rd channel

my dumbass linked the second one

https://discord.com/channels/297116500232372224/1119630715315830864

there

this is a fun day

[broken zephyr]

youre really enjoying it

[solid jasper]

i know what you are

[broken zephyr]

nuh uh

[dusty jolt]

Is this lore? Or #✨destiny-discussion

[smoky rose]

Its lore

[shadow crypt]

Gambit

[exotic cloak]

Gambit lore

[lusty socket]

gambit playbook

[thorny pelican]

If Drifter were to meet a doppelgänger do you think he’d eat him? (As in fully digest)

[trim grotto]

...

[exotic cloak]

Honestly

I think he would but that's pretending he kills him in the first place

Imagine two Drifters

Even more cool

And I didn't was here when Taken King but

Why Mara Sov pretty much sacrificed an entire army, herself and her brother

[dusty jolt]

Alright got it thanks

[thorny pelican]

How does it feel knowing the Concordat are relevant again?

[hardy anvil]

Gambit lore pwetty pwease

[trim grotto]

I knew it'd come eventually, but we simply don't know enough about them for me to form an opinion.

[trim grotto]

And no

[exotic cloak]

Drifter ate himself in any occasion?

[trim grotto]

...there may be an implication.

[exotic cloak]

I mean considering he starved to death a lot of times is not crazy to think that he ate himself on some occasion

Damn that got potential to be dark

Like guardians that sell themselves to or were kidnapped by cannibals

[dusty jolt]

Can they sell the same organs for money

[trim grotto]

I doubt it.

[hardy anvil]

What happened to the tiger people

[trim grotto]

What do you think the Aphelion are
Aphelion

[hardy anvil]

it's all coming together

[exotic cloak]

Aphelion Rest but they are not resting

[hardy anvil]

Fighting Lion

Lion Rampart

[exotic cloak]

I mean in a Black Market would be possible but

If this is something they actually can do I'm sure a lot of guardians would just kill themselves and donate their organs

"Ah yeah take my kidney I can literally make a new one"

[trim grotto]

No, I mean, I doubt it works like that.

[exotic cloak]

We would need an actual explanation cause we didn't saw It on picture but

I think it can be

Ghost literally can take us back from nothing as showed on lightfall

So what are exactly the rules

I lose an arm and these arm is coming back or I make a new one?

[hardy anvil]

Mael concucting an essay on how ghost stores a memory of the body or something

[exotic cloak]

Ghost suddenly repairing exos when they can't even understand what the fuck they are

[trim grotto]

That isn't actually clear but I doubt random limbs stay

[exotic cloak]

We will never know I guess

[chrome fog]

Tried making toe stew, didn't taste good and I think it caused some regen issues for them but I need to reread the loretab/dialogue

[trim grotto]

(You can't, if you're askin'.)```

[chrome fog]

So at the very least suggests body material from before a rez doesn't last well enough for any use

Or cutting off toes enough times makes it stick, which I doubt

honk ponk

[chrome fog]

Oh, Mael, probably will shift this to https://discord.com/channels/297116500232372224/1119630083611705566, but would this image be a parallel to The Player which has seen some gesturing to within Destiny's universe, mainly from the Nine and the Emissary?

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/850049416790540369/1114073300247781447/Zapetsp.png?ex=6618d01d&is=66065b1d&hm=f1c69260f826d52700f6c0ea8b729ad1f787953906fe16226cbc513c9daa1f5c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=624&height=468

[smoky rose]

Bear in mind Marathon Infinity had a forge mode

The player is a cyborg, they are going through rampancy and now they have access to the forge mode. They are god.

[spiral crane]

What’s the lore behind gambit

[dim minnow]

so basically, Drifter wanted to test the waters with using Darkness

and also needed to gather motes of Dark

so he created Gambit to essentially outsource the gathering of these motes to us

originally, he needed these motes for an unspecified plan that would end in him surviving whatever was coming

[thorny pelican]

What is this?

[dim minnow]

but because of Eris, he decided to leave that whole plan behind

[dim minnow]

I think it is from Marathon, an older Bungie IP

[thorny pelican]

Oh. Neat

Wait older?

There was a Marathon before the one that got announced a few years ago?

[dim minnow]

yes

[chrome fog]

It predates right before Halo, Bungie’s breakout hit

[thorny pelican]

They’d get erased and replaced with limbs that are attracted to us is my headcannon

[chrome fog]

Also sets up a lot of tropes we see in Halo and Destiny

[thorny pelican]

Like if I were to cut off my arm and my Ghost restores it the cut off arm is erased and is replaced with my replacement arm

[thorny pelican]

Interesting

Whelp time to read up on whatever Marathon lore I can find lol

[chrome fog]

I believe Mael did a play through of all the Marathon titles with the Cryptarchy server a while back, he might help give insight on where to start

[spiral crane]

What was he prepping for

[chrome fog]

Unspecified apocalypse; just whatever worst might happen

[trim grotto]

Good luck with that
It's not easy to dive into

I'd recommend actually playing it via Aleph One
It's coming to Steam iirc, too

And by it I mean the trilogy

[thorny pelican]

Aleph One?

Could you provide more insight about what that is plz?

[jagged badge]

Better to do that in #✨destiny-discussion

FUCK

[broken zephyr]

nice

[jagged badge]

Still the wrong one

Maybe this one

#✨destiny-discussion

[broken zephyr]

nope

same one

[jagged badge]

Bruh I pressed a different one on the list

[broken zephyr]

clearly not

[jagged badge]

#✨destiny-discussion

[broken zephyr]

same one

[jagged badge]

WHAT THE FUCK

I FUCKING SCROLLED DOWN TO SELECT THAT

So what, it’s just jumbled the order every time I typed it and against the odds I’ve gotten gen chat 3/3 times?

[broken zephyr]

seems like it

[jagged badge]

[chrome fog]

Just copy link on the correct one

[trim grotto]

It's a launcher.

[thorny pelican]

Did you mean this one? https://discord.com/channels/297116500232372224/1119630083611705566

Or this one? https://discord.com/channels/297116500232372224/1119630715315830864

[trim grotto]

Does the three Marathon games and also Pathways Into Darkness

[chrome fog]

Whichever one was Off-Topic, as Marathon is not Destiny

[thorny pelican]

Then this one

[chrome fog]

Also learned that mobile discord still has some fuck ups in its search bar if you have channels named the same

[thorny pelican]

Ooh, nice!

[chrome fog]

Which is greeaaat discord

[thorny pelican]

Thx

[trim grotto]

Wastelander, by the way, is from Marathon. As is the MIDA Multi-Tool.
Pardon Our Dust represents Pathways Into Darkness. All of the Dares guns represent older Bungie games.

As do the skulls hidden around the free roam area in Eternity

[thorny pelican]

Hidden skulls?

[trim grotto]

Yes.

They're collectable.

[thorny pelican]

And so my hunt begins

[dim minnow]

you know the drill

[trim grotto]

noooo

[trim grotto]

See if you can guess what skull is for which game

[thorny pelican]

I accidentally had my volume cranked to max and scared tf out of myself

[thorny pelican]

I’ll likely get all the non-halo ones wrong, but I’ll give it my best shot

[dim minnow]

Destiny lore jumpscare

[thorny pelican]

Indeed

[thorny pelican]

Out of curiosity what does the Consensus role mean?

[prime compass]

it means that ur a nerd

jk, basically u know a lot of stuff bout the game

and is experienced enough

[unique socket]

Is there any way to read destiny lore offline?

[calm granite]

#📋server-info will explain each role 🙂

[thorny pelican]

Thx!

[dim minnow]

Offline as in not ingame?

[unique socket]

Yeah. But i think that website https://www.ishtar-collective.net/ was also not available offline, no?

[next bobcat]

That symbol

Black garden

[trim grotto]

No. But there are some transcripts of certain books floating around. Did you have anything particular in mind?

[trim grotto]

As far as we can tell, it was likely left there by the 227.

[next bobcat]

[trim grotto]

In the Golden Age, the Ishtar Collective science team including Maya Sundaresh, Chioma Esi and two others, were simulated by a Vex unit 227 times. This led to a rather chaotic existential crisis as they had to figure out who was real. Rasputin was brought in, the 227 were "released", and sent into the Vex Network. 227 copies of Maya Sundaresh's team.

Some have since died. One joined the Vex and tried to kill Clovis Bray. Some still "live", and worked alongside Praedyth, and - as far as we can tell - have since, together, escaped into the Black Garden. What exactly this means is unclear, as they are still data.

Remember the old memes of "Who is MSund12?"

Chances are, it was one of the 227, a version of Maya Sundaresh.

[next bobcat]

OH MY GOD

NO FREAKING WAY

MSUND12

OXA

OTZOT

Still don’t know the last 2 but WOW

[unique socket]

Savathun's story seems interesting to me. But i didn't know where or when her first story(?) started.

I wished that I could read some Destiny/Destiny 2 lore(s) while offline if I travel somewhere.

[jagged badge]

Otzot is a notable Psion. Originally the only freeborn Psion. Iirc, she conspired in the Midnight Coup to exile Calus as Calus was planning to free the other Psions and she didn’t want that

[next bobcat]

Sav’s story is mainly interesting before WQ, basically before the crystal prison thing. After that it’s basically just die + light + guardian + die + immaru + season of the witch

[jagged badge]

She liked the unique privilege of being the only freeborn

[next bobcat]

Ok then

[jagged badge]

OXA on the other hand is a prediction engine thingy which I know less about so I’ll defer to someone else for a more detailed explanation

[next bobcat]

I don’t think Mael would get mad if you pinged him

[jagged badge]

He would call me mean names like the bully he is

[unique socket]

[jagged badge]

Jk

[unique socket]

Was Savathun being chosen to have that power?

[next bobcat]

Ye

Traveler was gonna give the krill the light but the witness got to them first

With worms

[jagged badge]

The Light? Well, she arranged it with Immaru prior, but there’s a suggestion that the Traveler allowed that to happen

[jagged badge]

That’s not true

Not exactly

[next bobcat]

Oh?

[unique socket]

[jagged badge]

The Traveler was going to bless the krill as it did other species, like the Eliksni and humanity. Lightbearers weren’t a thing until after our Collapse

The Traveler had never made Ghosts before then

[next bobcat]

Ah

Ok

Funny thing is, savathun’s prison is made from Amethyst, the same kind of crystal that the awoken used to build the dreaming city. Amethyst creates reflections and mirrors, which help keep the ahamkara at bay. Perhaps that was a connection to how savathun knew about the last wish and the ahamkara?

[unique socket]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there some character who called the Traveler a "coward" ingame?

[next bobcat]

Not that I’m aware of

[errant olive]

ig the one that comes to mind when criticising the traveler is Toland the Shattered

but i'm not aware of if he said that specifically

[trim grotto]

Sure, a few. Doesn't really cover the full story.

[trim grotto]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rhfCYRTpiTy_wsEB3nTSn0bDTc1E7PPu
Check the D1 Grimoire folder, Books of Sorrow.
This details the origins of the three Hive siblings, Xivu Arath, Savathûn, and Oryx, albeit largely from Oryx's perspective.

There's a lot more to her story, but this is an important beginning for both her and the Hive as a whole.

[trim grotto]

Only if Eris does it
She's stinky

[trim grotto]

The Light or her power through the Sword Logic, pre exorcism? If you mean the Light... Perhaps! That's a topic up for debate. I can detail my view on the situation, if you'd like.

[unique socket]

Oh??

What's your view?

[trim grotto]

The short version is - yes.

Back before the Hive were the Hive, they were a short lived species floating on a continent upon the ocean of a gas giant.

That’s what Fundament must be. A titanic gas planet. The endless storm above us must be one layer of the atmosphere. And the sea we float on... there’s more down beneath it. So much more!```
So short lived that they only lived for, on average, eight years.
```It’s taken me two years — a quarter of our lives — but I’ve found the proof. We aren’t native to the Fundament. Our ancient ancestors came here to hide.```

We called them Proto-Hive, but you may hear the name Krill used in modern times - arguably inaccurate, but that's a gripe for another day.

The Traveler was tending to a species on one of the Moons of Fundament... and after it had finished with them, it intended to care for the Proto-Hive and other species of Fundament itself.
The Witness had other ideas.

[exotic cloak]

I mean she could but wasnt clarified that traveler has no power over the ghost

Our own ghost said that at some point

[trim grotto]

The Witness sent Rhulk to broker a deal with the Worm Gods who lay trapped, guarded, deep within the seas of Fundament.
In short, the Worm Gods manipulated and lured the siblings Sathona, Xi Ro, and Aurash, into the deep, and struck a deal with them. They took the Parasite Worms, and thus birthed the Hive as we know them today.

So - what does this have to do with the Light? Well -

[trim grotto]

During Season of Arrivals, Savathûn struck a deal with Queen Mara Sov to preform an exorcism of the Hive Parasite Worm that threatened to consume her, as they threaten all Hive.

In doing so, Savathûn broke free of this dark bond, this parasitical enthrallment, that the Witness had puppeteered.

[exotic cloak]

Im pretty sure Eramis said that at some point but I would to replay BL again

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

The Traveler is a being of forgiveness, second chances, caring, and grace - often to its detriment. So, I believe that when Savathûn sacrificed her life in a gamble of long odds, and freed herself of the Worm, the Traveler finally had the chance to give her the second chance at life her and her species lost all those millennia ago on Fundament.

The Traveler also values freedom of will, and freedom of choice. What Savathûn did with this second chance was dangerous, even selfish - but it was her choice to make. There was no parasite forcing her hand.

The Hive got their second chance once stolen from them, as granted by the Traveler.

So yes, in short, I believe she was chosen to be resurrected. That the Traveler allowed the Ghosts to resurrect the Hive and claim their second chances.

[jagged badge]

Could you argue Immaru and her past self technically robbed her choice too?

[trim grotto]

She was guided, put on a path - but she was not under any obligation.

[unique socket]

Wasn't that the time when savathun was frozen(?) in some kind of a crystal thingy?

[trim grotto]

It was! Yes, a prison of crystal Amethyst, formed by Mara Sov.

[jagged badge]

I wonder what they would have done if Risen Savathûn refused her past life

[trim grotto]

A shard of that crystal is what killed her, in the end.

[jagged badge]

Given her the good old “piss off” like Clovis-1

[heady monolith]

tbh that was such a crazy reveal that she actually died after the exorcism and she was resurrected with the light

[unique socket]

What was her main intention after she got resurrected? Or was there even any? It seems a little bit confusing to me

[heady monolith]

from my (poor) memory she wanted to hide the traveler away from the witness

[errant olive]

Lightbearers resurrect without any memories of their past life, but...
during the wq campaign, we recover items that hold memories and view them in the Altar of Reflection, to reveal memories of what Savathun did during her life, talking about her disdain for the Witness and eventually her plan to seal away the Traveler. What we don't realise is that we were actually showing Savathun these memories, and so she set about doing that in the last mission, guided by the memories of her previous life as shown by the Guardian (us).

[unique socket]

Was savathun still under witness' influence when she has the light?

[jagged badge]

Nope. She hadn’t been even before then

Getting the Light was her striving to get away from the Witness and from her worm

[unique socket]

Was her worm a some kind of bad version of ghost since its host savathun?

[shadow warren]

Theres better analogies

[unique socket]

[shadow warren]

Ig in a sense you could say that though. Parasites feed off of and burden the host. Ghosts are mostly beneficial

Realistically probably only beneficial for the lightbearer

Unless you’re drifter

[unique socket]

Do all hives have their own parasites? Or was it just savathun and her siblings?

[blazing wasp]

they all have their worm things

it's a bit of a stretch to call them "parasites", but they're not exactly symbiotes either maybe

xol seems to strongly imply they're strictly symbiotic, but the parasite grenade launcher might be called that because she thinks otherwise

[unique socket]

Oh? I was wrong

[blazing wasp]

whisper of the worm flavor text

said weapon being xol, the worm god, of course.

[jagged badge]

All Hive have worms

Except Hive Lightbearers ofc

And newborn Hive who have not yet ingested a worm

[ember storm]

yeah but it’s like the first thing they ever do in their lives

can’t exactly say no

[unique socket]

Could the worms control their hosts?

[errant olive]

if the hosts doesn't keep feeding the worm through killing things, the worm devours the host itself, with its hunger growing as you feed it more.
So, in a sense, the worms force the host to keep killing others to feed it, hence why Savathun wanted her worm exorcised.

[unique socket]

That lowkey looked scary

[errant olive]

it is, yes

note that the Hive Gods (due to the pact they made as proto-Hive with the Worm Gods) could feed their worms by performing actions that were part of their 'nature': Auryx (later Oryx) from navigating and discovery, Xivu Arath through war, and Savathun through deception and trickery (although their worm's demands would still grow with this)

[shadow crypt]

Who was the Stranger talking to in D1?

[trim grotto]

We don't actually know.

[errant olive]

pretty sure Bungie themselves don't know either

[shadow crypt]

What’s your theory?

[ember storm]

Jim Davis

[unique socket]

But didn't Auryx kill the other sisters?

[ember storm]

after they killed him and he discovered the nature of throne worlds

it was just routine for them

it’s how they expressed love

[unique socket]

[ember storm]

why is this an emote

[trim grotto]

3 sisters. Aurash, Xi Ro, Sathona. They become Auryx, Xivu Arath, and Savathûn. Auryx later became Oryx.

And, of course, Xivu and Sav still live.

[heady monolith]

for someone who doesnt have time to explain shes sure as hell just standing around doing nothing

[shadow warren]

The gjallarhorn ornament set for titans is called Fenrir’s bane - is there any mention of a fenrir in the lore

[trim grotto]

I honestly don't know. I doubt it's the Pouka or that one Ghost.

[shadow crypt]

Has she even helped us since beyond light?

[trim grotto]

It's just part of the theme. Gjallarhorn is Norse, so is Fenrir, and the Wolf is a symbol of the Guardians - the pack.

[heady monolith]

she was involved during seraph

[shadow warren]

Oh mythology

Makes sense

[ember storm]

that’s the general thing for most things in destiny

reminds me of the time I argued with someone about why Osiris is called Osiris

they didn’t believe me that trials has Egypt themes

it was a fun day

[shadow warren]

Same for a lot of other games

Honestly should have put two and two together lol

[trim grotto]

Some people get weird about Saint-14 having Greek themes yet being Russian

Suggesting he isn't actually Russian due to that

[ember storm]

i mean

he could just be both

or neither

[trim grotto]

Exactly

[errant olive]

He 'resurrected' them by doing an action that was in their nature:

Oryx made war on the Ecumene for a hundred years. At the end of those hundred years he killed the Ecumene Council on the Fractal Wreath, and from their blood rose Xivu Arath, saying, “I am war, and you have conjured me back with war.”

Oryx was glad, for he loved Xivu Arath. The Ecumene wailed in grief.

Then Oryx and Xivu Arath made war on the Ecumene for forty years. At the end of those forty years Oryx said to the Dakaua Nest, listen, I am jealous of my sibling Xivu Arath, help me kill her. And in desperation they agreed.

But he drove the Dakaua Nest into a trap, and they were made extinct. From their ashes rose cunning Savathûn, saying, “I am trickery, and you have conjured me back with trickery.”

Oryx was glad, for he loved Savathûn. The Ecumene fled into the void.

[ember storm]

it doesn’t really matter

but if you look at Osiris and claim he has no Egyptian ties

I don’t know what to say

[trim grotto]

The Egyptian looking man with an Egyptian name running an Egyptian themed event using Egyptian symbology clearly isn't related to Egypt
Silly billy

[ember storm]

for the record, this was only necessary as they died in his own throne world (in the ascendant realm, but not their own thrones, so not a perma death)

I think

[trim grotto]

Which was later clarified by Xivu in the very same book

[ember storm]

anyway I leave you with my parting words

eat flour

[jagged badge]

I’m eating Greggs

[trim grotto]

I too leave you all with parting words

Jamming out to the tick of the clock

[empty fern]

Gotta wonder how many times oryx has died outside his throne world

Or any of the hive with the ascendant plane

[shadow crypt]

How is Savathun alive?

I thought she died at the end of the WQ campaign

[empty fern]

Season of the witch shenanigans

https://tenor.com/view/banished-destiny-2-hive-season-of-the-witch-eris-morn-gif-7589308504273255479

[ember storm]

well you see

there’s a thing called a ghost

[jagged badge]

In Season of the Witch, Eris had Immaru resurrect her so that she could kill her again to gain her tithed power. Afterwards Savathûn was resurrected once more, and managed to negotiate her freedom in exchange for leaving Immaru with us as insurance

[ember storm]

also before anybody complains “well bungie is just lazy explaining the end in a lore tab”, she literally recorded a new radio message for us immediately after the mission

[jagged badge]

If she steps out of line, we kill her Ghost

[ember storm]

it works because Immaru is a massive coward and has never had an original thought in his life

[shadow crypt]

So is Savathun now an ally of us?

Or still an enemy

[jagged badge]

Well she’s not actively working towards our detriment right now. And it was her leading us to bringing Riven’s spirit back to grant her wish that will allow us to go to confront the Witness

So, it’s complicated, but for now she has given us aid because she kinda also doesn’t want to die or whatever to the Witness

[empty fern]

She’s on the side lines

[shadow crypt]

I forgot about that

Her ghost got away

or something

[ember storm]

no

that was witch queen

[shadow crypt]

oh

[ember storm]

we just own Immaru right now

[empty fern]

Wonder what the lightblades ghost is up to?
(Maybe another canonically repeatable strike like key head?)

[ember storm]

it’s never mentioned in dialogue or anything else

like leviathan

[empty fern]

Pain

[ember storm]

sure, other teams “could” go and do it

but it’s never mentioned that we actually do it

plus I think Calus would get bored at a bunch of guardians trying his first challenge over and over

[shadow crypt]

Also isn’t Oryx’s dreadnaught still in Saturn’s rings?

[empty fern]

Ye

[ember storm]

it’s basically just a dead rock floating in space now

[empty fern]

Tho rotted and has some xivu forces

[shadow crypt]

Has it been used since we killed him?

[ember storm]

nothing particularly special about it

no

it’s just been left to rot

[shadow crypt]

Oh ok

[empty fern]

[ember storm]

it’s not like they’re trying to refurbish and use it again

it was just a temporary base while they invaded Titan

[empty fern]

Still wonder what the giant worm in red war titan was

[shadow crypt]

And the dreadnaught is Oryx’s throne world?

[empty fern]

Ye

[ember storm]

he did a special move and inverted it inside out and molded it into the physical space of the Dreadnaught

making it a double edged sword

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/oryx-taking-himself-destiny-oryx-taken-king-gif-17498021

[ember storm]

permanently portable and defendable, but

[shadow crypt]

Crazy

[ember storm]

any invader actually getting in just has to kill you once

and then that’s it

[empty fern]

Kf moment

https://tenor.com/view/oryx-kings-fall-destiny-king-entrance-gif-24029092

[ember storm]

what’s happening here is oryx being a little chicken and running away from what was rightfully his deserved death, as sword logic dictates

[empty fern]

So why does he stay dead in ghost then?

[ember storm]

his final gambit was hiding in the very end of the Dreadnaught and putting everything he could between us and him

[ember storm]

what do you mean

oryx didn’t die in the campaign

he just ran away

he died in kf

[empty fern]

Oh yea

[ember storm]

his body flies off and ends up in Titan

the end

[shadow crypt]

Do we do anything with his remains after we kill the wizard trying to rez him?

[ember storm]

contained it

[empty fern]

Yea Zavala himself

Ahhh you can’t edit that out

We all saw it

[ember storm]

I don’t care

I want a hot pocket

[empty fern]

[empty fern]

I have some jimmy deans

[shadow crypt]

Also does the Vanguard support Guardians using the darkness for good purposes?

[empty fern]

Ye,

Beyond light kinda started this

[shadow crypt]

I thought people like Savanna and Ikora were against it or something

Shoot

Zavala

not Savannah

[empty fern]

[shadow crypt]

[empty fern]

Didn’t Zavala have a small speech at the end of BL about it?

It’s one of those long in game ones you usually skip

[jagged badge]

Keyword being “were”

Past tense

[chrome fog]

Isn’t it Season of the Lost?

[vale mango]

Clovis Bray seems bipolar tbh

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Having a genetic disease which makes all your organs gradually fail and also cripples your movement will do that

But at the very least, in the end he saw that who he was was not a good person

[vale mango]

Well, he also made people explode, die from blood loss, implode, etc. while working on the exo program

I have read the entire manuscripts for it and I am permanently scarred

[chrome fog]

Mmmm do you know what happened to his son, Clovis II

[vale mango]

Elizabeth’s dad?

He killed him (I think)

[chrome fog]

AND Ana’s

[vale mango]

I always forget about Ana

Because she’s not that memorable

Elizabeth holds a special place in my heart tho

[chrome fog]

He was the first Exo test subject, disemboweled himself due to lack of sensory sensation with Ana watching behind Clovis, and all the old man could do was give her some candy for it

[vale mango]

Sounds about right

Oh wait

[chrome fog]

Or was it Elizabeth

[ember storm]

it is, mael is wrong

[vale mango]

That was her dad?!

[ember storm]

he will be executed

[chrome fog]

I know

[vale mango]

im stupid I never put that together

[ember storm]

yeah there was Clovis jr

[chrome fog]

Hey where’s that fancy schmancy family tree for the Bray family

[ember storm]

I don’t know I only have the list™️

[vale mango]

We including banshee-44 in the tree?

[ember storm]

he is literally Clovis

so

[vale mango]

Wait

[ember storm]

but robots don’t really have parents or descendants so

it doesn’t really matter

[vale mango]

If AI Clovis wanted to kill Banshee-44 isn’t that just suicide?

[chrome fog]

Clovis jr eviscerated his Exo body, Clovis the Wise gave candy to his granddaughter for seeing her father dying

[ember storm]

all the tree needs to say is Clovis

[ember storm]

the ai wants to reboot banshee so he goes back to being Clovis

[vale mango]

I call it killing bc banshee is his own person

[chrome fog]

AI Clovis ain’t even really Clovis, it’s a static portrayal of him who hadn’t made the growth Clovis did at the end of his natural life before being uploaded into his Exo body

[empty fern]

Stagnant Clovis was the true villain of uhhhh, seraph?

[ember storm]

on paper, the ai was meant to be a stand in while Clovis underwent the exo process (includes a memory wipe)

the plan would’ve been exo Clovis getting guidance from and eventually filling back the shoes the ai would momentarily fill

[chrome fog]

Yes he revealed Clovis’ plan to insert his conscious into Rasputin’s Warmind frame work and replace the Traveler

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-season-of-the-seraph-exo-rasputin-ai-gif-27560477

Oh yea this too

[vale mango]

Didn’t the cabal capture the traveller during the red war?

[ember storm]

although an argument could be made that Clovis had somewhat of a heart towards the end of his life and had the ai made the way it was

[ember storm]

capture is a strong word

[vale mango]

Contain

[ember storm]

basically put a really high tech blanket over a coma patient

[vale mango]

Yea ig

[empty fern]

Yea, but it farted too hard and all was well
But the darkness smelt it and came to end it

[ember storm]

the traveler wasn’t going anywhere to begin with

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-video-game-wreck-floating-debris-gif-16578045

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/ghaul-die-gif-20384712

[vale mango]

I wish I was around for that stuff

But I only started playing during witch queen

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-destiny2-ghaul-cabal-light-gif-21534038

[empty fern]

Pain, you shall be missed

[vale mango]

Yep

But I have shadowkeep and BL

So

I get some of the earlier lore

[empty fern]

[vale mango]

I played them on the wrong order tho

I play BL then shadowkeep

Not knowing I should have done it the other way

[empty fern]

You missing all of forsaken and 2 lesser dlcs tho

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/stanley-hudson-laughing-hysterically-the-office-lmao-gif-15102487

[shadow crypt]

Is Saladman the last known Iron Lord?

[empty fern]

No I think efrideet is still alive

[vale mango]

I’ll get it next dw

[chrome fog]

But she’s a pacifist now

[empty fern]

And rise of iron guardian too

[chrome fog]

Oops! All vaulted!

[vale mango]

Wdym?

[chrome fog]

Maybe they’ll make a come back

[chrome fog]

Do you know the tales of Sunsetting

[vale mango]

I can get forsaken on the Microsoft store?

[empty fern]

Warmind and osiris curse are removed from the game atm

[vale mango]

Ohhh

[empty fern]

Oh and like half of forsaken

[vale mango]

Bug fixes?

[ember storm]

you get the content pack including exotics and dreaming city activities

[empty fern]

It’s campaign and the tangled shore

[empty fern]

Ah uhhhh, no

[vale mango]

Just bungie being bungie?

[ember storm]

they were removed because they were shit

[chrome fog]

Under Activision

[ember storm]

nobody liked them

[empty fern]

I liked them

[ember storm]

silence

[vale mango]

I probably would too

[chrome fog]

Mmmm Vanilla D2 - Forsaken is a different beast compared to the game of today

[vale mango]

Is it darker or smth?

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/delet-this-destiny-destiny2-panoptes-delete-this-gif-21537604

[chrome fog]

Primary still needed ammo bricks, lots of Work stuff hadn’t been added

[vale mango]

Tbh I want that back from destiny 1

[empty fern]

Wonder how many people actually remember people wanting a darker dlc (we got forsaken)

[vale mango]

I never played it but I want to have to made builds that concern more about ammunition

[chrome fog]

Shaders were a resource you had to replenish and buy over and over again

[vale mango]

That much I don’t want

[empty fern]

So sweet business?

[vale mango]

I’m happy with my monochrome

[vale mango]

The exotic?

[empty fern]

Yea remember one of its perks?

[vale mango]

Wait

[empty fern]

Practically useless perk too

[vale mango]

Primary chain gun?

[chrome fog]

Endgame content would start to run into issues where you have to wait for ads to spawn and then have a chance to drop ammo bricks, so it would be especially annoying to have no ammo whatsoever especially during timed sequences

[ember storm]

it was just bad

[chrome fog]

Forsaken was ok

[vale mango]

Oki

[empty fern]

What’s next

Wonder if the ruins on Venus are up to anything, the wolves are dead and the vex, well were from vault, taken war ended too so

[chrome fog]

Also late April Fools I didn’t talk about Bionicles since it would genuinely be an issue if others began to spam chat

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

There is that seemingly Vex themed episode

[empty fern]

Isn’t that happening on Nessus? (Or are they bringing back the goblin by xur relevance again)

[chrome fog]

Idk, just that one of the episodes is vaguely Vex themed

[vale mango]

Is it normal to create lore for your character?

Like

An origin story

[empty fern]

It won’t be canon to bungie, but you can start in media I guess

#🏆destiny-media

[chrome fog]

Yes! It’s exactly why the Guardian has so little lines

[vale mango]

Yea ik

Because every guardian starts off similar

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny-hunter-shadowkeep-gif-26295740

[vale mango]

lol

[chrome fog]

They’re purposefully lacking in any details so that you can make The Guardian Your Guardian

[vale mango]

Agreed tho

My guardian has a hatred for vex

Because

Annoying

And made him lose his arm

[empty fern]

Oh yea, do we all agree this was the most under lored Encounter of any raid?

[vale mango]

Never done it so idk

[chrome fog]

And supposedly from what I learned from the Cryptarchy server’s founder, it also takes into account activities you haven’t done yet so you can say Your “The Guardian” didn’t do the Hawkmoon mission because they still hold grudges against Uldren, or they never did any endgame content because it was too hard

But that just makes it complicated when discussing lore as the story progresses, when supposedly all these different iterations of the Guardian based on each individual player’s experience would be participating in events that assumes they did everything

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-video-games-npc-back-off-gif-10928686

[chrome fog]

Somewhat made it annoying discussing lore with him, had some good revelations tho

Anyways

[empty fern]

Venus

[chrome fog]

Yeah, it’s normal to make lore for your guardian or guardians

[vale mango]

The only good destiny 2 waifu

[ember storm]

If you’re a coward

[empty fern]

Clovis family has a lot of things

[empty fern]

Only true waifu is zulmak from heresy

[ember storm]

wrong it’s S.A.B.E.R.-2

[chrome fog]

Ada-1 is cool, surviving daughter of one of the houses that founded the Black Armory, also is an Exo of the weapon forge’s own design, not Clovis

Killed Lightbearers with Izanagi’s Burden during the Dark Age

[vale mango]

Elizabeth is my waifu

Bc

She’s funny

[empty fern]

The only strike in the game to make your ghost question if the shell is enough

And also points out ghost live in a backpack

Sunshot lore go

[blazing wasp]

Drifter is my husbando but in a platonic way

[empty fern]

[vale mango]

Is drifter autistic?

[ember storm]

huh

[vale mango]

It’s a serious question

[empty fern]

Don’t think so, do you want him to be?

He’s not but he is a LITTLE messed up

[vale mango]

He acts like me

[empty fern]

Due to, his history

[vale mango]

So

[empty fern]

Are you?

[vale mango]

Mhm

[empty fern]

Cool

[vale mango]

I got the smart autism tho

[chrome fog]

High functioning, whilst on the spectrum

But like yeah, it’s not stated anywhere but if you wanna any scrimblo can be what you want

[empty fern]

What was the big bad people talked about? Glimbo?

[errant olive]

Glorbo?

[chrome fog]

Glup Shito?

[empty fern]

Yea that was it

[chrome fog]

You upvoted your own post, which is not only in the wrong channel but is also posting another stupid complaint

[ember storm]

I kind of doubt people are synthing 30 pieces of gear each season

The bounty cap isn’t a huge deal

[chrome fog]

Anyways @fringe imp do you have any actual lore questions

[fringe imp]

No I didn’t know where to post this this was the only channel o could post this

How is it stupid?

[chrome fog]

There are two channels this would've been better to post in, #✨destiny-discussion or #🏆destiny-media, which would be apparent if you read channel descriptions

[chrome fog]

Also you're not gonna use all those sets, aside from overlap of aesthetics between sets you're not gonna be swapping fits that often

[fringe imp]

What if ur an fashion freak tho and u enjoy doing fashion

Was just giving an suggestion

[chrome fog]

It's a nonissue

Again, too much overlap of aesthetics, I doubt you'll have that many outfits you'll really like, and it's more likely you will stick to one regular fit. If you wanted to show off fashion, you do the cosmetic screen with preview and then post it for someone to actually use

[fringe imp]

Don’t think it’s to much overlap it’s just removing to do quests for 1 sythweave

[ember storm]

you really can’t bother doing a couple nightfalls or blind well for ten minutes?

[chrome fog]

...Overlap of aesthetics, there's sets that have a very similar theme and whilst it's handy to have the variety it's not like you actually need all the different Hive-looking sets when you just want one

If you want to continue discussion of this, copy the suggestion word-for-word and post in those other two channels and let others know their own opinion, this is for discussion of lore and the universe of Destiny

[fringe imp]

Like I was saying I don’t have excuses to post an picture

[chrome fog]

Then continue elsewhere

[fringe imp]

Excess

[ember storm]

you literally do

[fringe imp]

That’s what I just did

[ember storm]

there is zero requirement for the #🏆destiny-media channel

[fringe imp]

Nope it’s blacked for me can’t press it

[chrome fog]

Go to channels and roles

[fringe imp]

Ok ty

[chrome fog]

[dusty jolt]

What is slones ghost name? Or is it unreleased

[dim minnow]

Siochain

[dusty jolt]

Thanks

[dim minnow]

fun fact, she has blades on her shell and has an actual kill count

[dusty jolt]

Respect

[next bobcat]

You can actually get her shell.

Siochain’s scuba shell

[gentle geyser]

All I can think about now is a ghost clutching up a raid wipe

[trim grotto]

Throwing Ghost at Riven's mouth for DPS

Fun fact
Drifter's Ghost has killed a man

[ember storm]

so has ours

[chrome fog]

Ghost with purpose built dense shell to be utilized like a guided bullet, that'd be a cool thing

[pure tree]

Question. Was pre taken Riven special compared to other ahamkara other than being Mara's ahamkara and the last aharmkara?

[trim grotto]

Only in that she was raised in the Dreaming City.

And being Taken after Oryx arrived of course

[pure tree]

Ok

Cuz like Riven by season of the wish has become one of the most influential characters in the series in just how much she's done, and I was wondering how much would change if it was a different Aharmkara in her place, assuming the same situation of being brought to the Queen as a young wish dragon

Also do we know any more about the worm gods and their situation since witch queen? Considering one of their champions is dead, another has defected to the light, and the third banished from her own throne world

[rich veldt]

who did ours kill?

[chrome fog]

Didn't they pilot a tank for a bit?

[dim minnow]

oh yeah during Forsaken

[chrome fog]

Yeeeaaaah

[dim minnow]

while we were repairing one the Machinist had lying around

he took control of it and tried aiming it around to help us

[unique socket]

(this maybe kind of off topic)
Is there any character (or creature) in the game that seems "immortal"?

[dim minnow]

us

[unique socket]

Is it because of ghost?

[chrome fog]

Yes, the Light which we possess through Ghost allows us to live for way past even the expanded lightspans of humans during the Golden Age (who themselves purportedly lived up to 3 centuries); Drifter and Saladin are the two of the oldest Guardians we are familiar with, having been resurrected relatively early into the Dark Age, which itself we have guesstimated to have lasted between a handful of centuries to a millennia before the City Age, and then the City Age itself has lasted a long time - Eris Morn was not only born in the Last City in her previous life before resurrection as a Lightbearer, but she also was part of the Hellmouth expedition on the moon, which happened centuries prior to the Guardian's ressurection

tl;dr Drifter and Saladin have been around a veeeery long time, two Lightbearers who have been around since very close to the start of the Dark Age

[gentle geyser]

(Yes)

[shadow warren]

Lightbearers only came about during the beginning of the dark age right

Or did the exist before

[unique socket]

is there a lore about dark age?

[jagged badge]

Yes

Loads

[unique socket]

i didn't know Destiny game lore was THAT big

[empty fern]

Yuh

[trim grotto]

Quite a few. To a degree, Exo. Lightbearers. Hive. Fallen live for an indefinite period of time. The Traveler. Vex. Probably Ahamkara. Worm Gods. Worm Parasites. I could go on.

[chrome fog]

Collections tab is a very good place to start

Armor and Guns have a lot of lore tabs themselves, and there are entire lorebooks collected in-game, as well as events we play through ourselves

[unique socket]

oh! Witness and Winnower aren't the same, no? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Witness isn't the darkness?

[chrome fog]

Which is what the current system is like, as opposed to the Grimoire system of before

[unique socket]

It seemed like a lot and I felt overwhelmed sometimes. Hahahaha

[chrome fog]

Witness is not the Darkness, Darkness is just another side to paracausality that compliments Light; we don't know if the Winnower is real - it's most likely a figure created by the Witness to present its ideals as most appealing - but they are very close to each other yes

I had a really nice explanation about Light, Darkness, and Paracausality not too long ago, I'll search it up

#📚lore-discussion message

Oh wait this is the one I was thinking of (Scroll down a bit on this one for more)
#📚lore-discussion message

[trim grotto]

Think of it this way
I've been part of the lore community for years and I'm still learning more often

There's a lot to cover and connect

[chrome fog]

No worries! It is a lot, but that's because Destiny as a franchise has been running for little over a decade; it's best to stick to a specific subject that catches your interest and look deeper into it, there's a lot of intersection between topics so you'll naturally be led through most of everything

I started playing in Beyond Light, Mael, our top Cryptarch here, only started iiiiinnn Shadowkeep? Destiny's lore is best enjoyed however much you want to get into, whenever you want to get into it

[dim minnow]

I started a lot longer ago

like I played during part way through D1Y1

then I stopped during D1Y3 since I did not have a next-gen console at the time

[chrome fog]

Feels bad

[dim minnow]

then I got on D2 not long after the award winning expansion, Curse of Osiris, dropped

[chrome fog]

I didn't start then because I was a wee bab, but I learned more about Destiny from a friend of mine who was a fan; still didn't start until Beyond Light because, again, a wee bab still, but also I was able to save up to get the Deluxe version

The magic system holding some roots in physics as well as the allegorical struggle present in the story - of fighting against nihilistic pessimism that follows Social Darwinist beliefs through our own will and collaboration with others to ensure our own lives in spite of the seemingly uncaring nature of existence - are what drew me in

In any case, us loreheads are here to answer any questions!

[unique socket]

So far, what interested me was the hive, warmind rasputin, some of that spooky stuff, and maybe that albino cabal that i barely knew his name. 😭😭

[gentle geyser]

Question

If the ghosts willingly revived the hive without any impute from the traveler, how come no other faction has had a single guardian

[ember storm]

no other faction was able to lie to ghosts en masse and also force them at gunpoint

no other faction was also inside of a throne world rebuilt out of light

[chrome fog]

Ghaul? He was in White armor, but he wasn't exactly an albino

[ember storm]

he literally was

he was dubbed the ghost primus

[chrome fog]

Oh was he?

[gentle geyser]

Even then I call absolute bull on that point

[chrome fog]

Huh, neat

[ember storm]

Fynch says it himself

[gentle geyser]

Its still kinda dumb

The throne world thing I get but that doesn’t play into sav getting the light

I think its a bit of a cop out answer personally

Like you mean to tell me a single ghost hasn’t gone to any other faction before

[ember storm]

a ghost literally tried to revive a vandal once because it thought it felt a pull

it ended up reviving an awoken buried underneath the vandal it didn’t even know was there

[gentle geyser]

That still doesn’t even answer it

[ember storm]

it’s more involved than just “there is a dead body so now I will do it”

[gentle geyser]

Its a pretty dumb cop out

[gentle geyser]

And at that point just say the traveler allowed it

[ember storm]

the way you’re wording it isn’t correct