📚lore-discussion

[gleaming pebble]

Is she stupid?

[solar pawn]

eramis isn't really working with the witness anymore and just wants to like settle down with her partner I think last time I checked the lore that's where she's at right now

[trim grotto]

Not quite. As for where she is...

[gleaming pebble]

eramis pissed off, she's heading past the solar system last I heard

[shadow crypt]

What’s there past Sol?

[solar pawn]

isn't eramis like always 80% angry no matter what

[shadow crypt]

Other like places?

[gleaming pebble]

Yea

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/nostos

Eramis is... finished.

[gleaming pebble]

Torobatl, Riis, Fundament are all planets that the other races came from

[trim grotto]

She wants to leave. Be with Athrys.

[shadow crypt]

Ty 🙏

[solar pawn]

i'm trying to figure out in placement where some of these characters stand like hero and villain are obvious but stuff like anti-hero and anti-villain is where I'm stuck at

[gleaming pebble]

like who

the difficulty to categorize and the myriad of different motivations is what makes a good story

[shadow crypt]

Does the Witness have like a government structure or something?

[solar pawn]

people like erimas and riven

[shadow crypt]

Like disciples are at the top

something like that

[gleaming pebble]

not really

[solar pawn]

there is certainly a hierarchy but I don't think it's exactly like that

[gleaming pebble]

it's the Witness, the Disciples, then it doesn't care

each disciple has their own forces to command

[trim grotto]

Enemies, pawns, Disciples (pawns who think they're important but aren't) and Witness

So no, not really

[gleaming pebble]

it's similar to a classic military hierarchy

but the witness is very self-interested

[solar pawn]

the witness promptly dosn't care for it's own disciples only cares for what will help them succeed within their goal

[shadow crypt]

Calus, Rhulk, and Nezarec are all the disciples we know of?

[solar pawn]

yep so far

you know what's weird rhulk is the only one the traveler ever talked to as a disciple and that is when rhulk was talking to a ghost and the traveler got angry and blew up the ghost in front of rhulk

[gleaming pebble]

what happened to the ghost bro

what about the guardian?

[solar pawn]

the ghost was looking for a guardian the ghost got blown up after the traveler talked through the ghost saying "this one is not yours"

[gleaming pebble]

poor little ghost dude

[solar pawn]

did nothing wrong but talking to rhulk was the poor little ghost's one mistake

[pure tree]

talking to the funni darkness guy? Wrong! Forced self destruction

[trim grotto]

It was less "causal chat" and more Rhulk was about to...

_>
Make the Ghost very unhappy

[worldly river]

Holy shit Concordat is not a name I expected to hear again

What the fuuuuuck

[warm gazelle]

rhulk was about to challenge the ghost to a game of magic with the four horsemen deck he's got in his back pocket

[pure tree]

it looks like as we go into final shape, bungie is trying to tie up many remaining lore loose ends

[ember storm]

for the record, Rhulk was actively tearing the ghost apart piece by piece

not even "about to" he was literally doing it as he spoke to it

the traveler granted it a mercy killing and denied whatever he wanted out of the situation

[eager trout]

They're gonna need Strand for that

[solar pawn]

to late ghost go boom

[warm gazelle]

good tbh

better death than playing against that deck

[fresh zephyr]

What happened to savathun's ghost?

After she gets killed

[trim grotto]

Immaru? He kept leading the Lucent Hive. We also worked with him during Season of the Witch, despite the high tensions.

Eris threw a book at him.

[fresh zephyr]

Wait so the ghost had a name?

[trim grotto]

Yes. You hear him speak often in the Patrols in the Throne World.

[fresh zephyr]

Oh that one is her ghost

I should probably replay the whole campaign

I was listening to music most of the time and ignored the dialogue

[dim minnow]

as of currently, after we got Xivu out of commission and and Savthun got rezzed, she left Immaru with us as collateral so we would leave her be

[fresh zephyr]

Alright

[dim minnow]

then Immaru (and I kid you not) stole candy from Spider with the help of Archie (the robot dog) and used it along with some alien body parts to create a Headless one that rampaged through the Tower so it can steal and eat more candy

[trim grotto]

...Festival of the Lost is weird.

[fresh zephyr]

O

[trim grotto]

Of all the pieces of lore you could bring up, Dova
It was FoTL

[dim minnow]

Tales of the Forgotten really has been on a decline

[fresh zephyr]

And is all of that part of the in-game dialogues and cutscenes or is there some place I can read that lore

[dim minnow]

Vol. 1 was strong, but then Bungie had to leave the Headless Ones origin amgiuous with Vol. 2 while making up the most infuriating misunderstanding

[trim grotto]

The magical world of text! You read it. Much of it is in game in lore books or lore tabs attached to weapons, armour, and gear.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net
Welcome to our library

[fresh zephyr]

Oh

Thanks

[dim minnow]

like Eido's misinterpretation of info (that was admittedly in a very small and degraded amount) on Halloween was done so blatantly that it didn't even register as comedic

then vol. 3 gave whatever the hell that storyline was that ended in Archie shitting on Spider's head

[smoky rose]

I'm sorry Archie what

Oh jesus I just read it

Bungie why

[dim minnow]

Archie swallowed up the remains of Immaru's great value Headless One and teleported them right on top of Spider

[fresh zephyr]

Also, Savathun said she was just trying to keep the traveller safe and that soon the witness will come and the guardians should get ready. Was she actually trying to keep it safe from the witness or did she have other intentions

[dim minnow]

while yes she did believe her intentions would keep it safe, she was still ultimately selfish in them

[fresh zephyr]

Oh alright

[dim minnow]

Tales of the Forgotten ranked
Vol. 1 > Vol. 2 > literally nothing > Vol. 3

[next bobcat]

is "the deep" the darkness, or the depths of titan/fundament?

[blazing wasp]

the deep is usually used to referr to the darkness

but in "ghost of the deep" i believe its a play on words, darkness because its fucking oryx, deep because you're literally diving deep into the methane oceans of titan

[next bobcat]

how is GoTD connected to oryx? not really familiar with it

[blazing wasp]

the GotD dungeon involves us stopping some weird hive ritual, making our way into a crashed hive ship (i believe one from savathuns brood) and eventually make it to a wizard doing some ritual with a ghost, which is located right above the carcass of oryx

[next bobcat]

oh that makes sense

[blazing wasp]

they're clearly trying to ressurect him, but due to his body still emmiting paracausal thingabobs, probably some darkness thing, it isnt as simple as chucking a ghost at him

[next bobcat]

just asking - if you captured a ghost, could you directly copy it and steal the light with the right tech or doe sit have to be given by the traveler?

[blazing wasp]

dunno

[next bobcat]

of course

oh here we go

[trim grotto]

That sounds vaguely similar to what Ghaul was doing with the Traveler. But copying? I doubt it, given what the Traveler did to the Ghost that Rhulk tried to steal.

[ember storm]

i mean you just can't build a ghost

you know that part in transformers age of extinction where the guy is like "imagine if i can apply [the transformer's] technology to my own, it could be a game changer for me!"

it's not happening

[empty fern]

Ana’s trial run of the seraph dog

[warm gazelle]

is that the one where optimus goes "KILL THEM ALL GRAHHHHHHHH"

[ember storm]

that’s every one

Bayverse just sucks

[empty fern]

Brayverse

[dusty jolt]

Does anyone know the real name of archie

[jagged badge]

It’s Archie

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iii-legacy?highlight=Archie

[dusty jolt]

I thought it had a full name and Archie was a pet name... thing

[rich veldt]

nope archie is very much the full name

im sure irl ive even heard someone with a dog named archie

[jagged badge]

It’s named Archie because of “Archangel” and Rasputin’s association with that word but to my knowledge the dog isn’t called Archangel

[trim grotto]

I call it Archibald

Because doggo has no hair

[eager trout]

Wait, so even the robot dog in the Tower has lore?

Is there a lore reason why people name themselves things like "Mara Sov's Sweat" and "Mara Sov's [REDACTED]"?

[jagged badge]

Obviously not

Don’t ask troll questions like that

[trim grotto]

Certainly. We found it within Seraph Station.

[eager trout]

Sorry

Ok, serious question now

Does the "don't pick me up" thing in the Tower have lore or is it just an easter egg? I mean, if the dog has lore...

[shadow warren]

Easter egg afaik

The dog was found in a seasonal quest

That pick me up thing has been there since launch

[trim grotto]

Just an Easter egg. Little minigame.

[reef salmon]

So with the skimmer mentioning the concordat are we thinking they might return? or adleast their leader?

[dusty jolt]

I just wanted to make sure cause I didn't want to pet him 2000 time and not know it

[trim grotto]

Very possibly! But I have no idea what that might entail. Heck, we don't know how many supporters they still have.
Hang on, someone in the Cryptarchy did a list.

- Served on Consensus before Twilight Gap
- Lysander was preparing to go to war against the Vanguard
- Battled New Monarchy at the Bannerfall Tower and lost 
- Removed from Consensus
- Faction dismantled and banned from the Last City
- Zavala attempted to realign their Guardians (don’t know results) 
- Shaxx retains control of the Bannerfall Tower for the Crucible
- Gjallarhorn was almost called Lysander’s Folly
- Hidden learned Lysander was rallying Guardians beyond the Last City
- Hardliners/supporters offer gifts to Guardians in Lysander’s name (sparrow) 
- Concordat signals were intercepted by Hunters after/during the Red War
- Eris ponders Zavala’s fear of someone being the next Lysander, or Toland, or Rezyl Azzir
- Pre-TFS: the Concordat makes a peace offering through contributions to the Guardian Games through Spider```

[short badge]

Why wasn’t the last wish just to kill the witness?

Or why doesn’t the witness just wipe out humanity?

[jagged badge]

Because wishes have their limits

And this wish already stretched Riven’s power, exhausting her spirit permanently

[short badge]

Why don’t the vex just kill us then?

They have time travel

[jagged badge]

Not exactly

The Vex don’t kill us because they can’t understand us so we have a slight advantage in our conflicts with them

[short badge]

What about the hive? Xivu could just torobatl everything

[jagged badge]

Well, no

She tried already but we stopped that

In Seraph

Besides, Xivu’s dealing with her vulnerability rn

[short badge]

Oh yeah forgot about that

[warm gazelle]

Idk what the general consensus is but the lore of Destiny seems more interesting than the actual story

[trim grotto]

Often, sure. I like the story too, but the lore is what caught me.

[warm gazelle]

ig this is why it's called the lore channel

not the story channel

[jagged badge]

I mean

Often times lore is used as a catch all term

[trim grotto]

You could argue lore covers story, yeah

[warm gazelle]

they're not the same thing though

[trim grotto]

They intersect often enough that I don't see a point in differentiating it, at least in here.

If it was just a game review, sure

But from this point of view, they're essentially the same - just, one we can actually take part in.

[warm gazelle]

i don't think i like the story much. playing through it all at once probably plays a big part in it but the pacing feels terrible. like the world is ending every 5 minutes, it's exhausting

[trim grotto]

You also haven't gotten to experience the seasons in between, so there's that, too.

[warm gazelle]

the lore is interesting though

[short badge]

Was the speaker a fraud? Or could he actually talk to the traveler?

[warm gazelle]

all speakers could listen to the traveler afaik

[trim grotto]

He spoke for the Traveler.

However

[warm gazelle]

I forgot that mf existed ngl, haven't seen him since destiny 1

[short badge]

Same

It’d be a shame if his skull was crushed or smth

[trim grotto]

Ever since the Collapse, Speakers couldn't properly "hear" the Traveler any longer. It was like static, white noise. Until the Speaker's mask was created.
This mask refined the signal, and turned the white noise into fragments of visions. Like a prophesy half seen and half understood, leading to our Speaker attempting to interpret what he could.

[broken zephyr]

Is it ever explained how a Speaker becomes a Speaker, like are they born with some enhanced ability to do so or what?

[trim grotto]

Like Guardians, they just have a "spark".

So they're just, uh, like that.

[broken zephyr]

So....
Random VIdeo Game Magic?

[empty fern]

Perhaps

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/searching#book-constellations

The entire book is very good but this is particularly relevant

[broken zephyr]

Interesting

So they literally just exist like that

[trim grotto]

Like That™️

[warm gazelle]

how come we don't have one now

or ig maybe they do exist somewhere, we just can't tell bc they're not wearing the mask

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/radiant-accipiter

This is the pseudo final entry of Constellations, the book the previously linked entry is from

[gentle geyser]

Hawkmoon ship hawkmoon ship

Can’t believe they turned the gun into a marketable spacecraft

[burnt edge]

Why is oryx’s body on titan? like how did it get there

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/emperors-new-groove-kronk-disney-confused-wtf-gif-5238289

[burnt edge]

yea basically

cuz wasn’t his body heading straight for Saturn

also why does it look ‘normal’ and not that grey-ish thing when he was floating away

[silent olive]

Fr

[burnt edge]

Hmmmmm

I did the dungeon yesterday for the first time so I have these questions.

[ember storm]

rule number 1

don't trust destinypedia

occasionally it'll have some lore catalogued that ishtar doesn't, but that is the only scenario whatsoever you should pay it any mind

[dim minnow]

but

that's exactly what happened in King's Fall

[ember storm]

anyway, it's not that Oryx had some big darkness chain reaction that turned him to stone

the most likely scenario is his death just cut off any special protection he had from the pure void of space

[dim minnow]

we beat the shit out of Oryx's chest cavity and it caused him to blow up and crystalize

[burnt edge]

Yea but why is he not crystalized in the dungeon

[ember storm]

you're literally at the bottom of a methane ocean

[burnt edge]

it’s like he just died and drifted away

[dim minnow]

you know that just crossed my mind

[ember storm]

again, it's not like every part of his body was turned to stone

[burnt edge]

but it was

his whole body crystallized

[dim minnow]

though they explain that Oryx's body is not dead technically

[ember storm]

there's nothing indicating that

"crystalize" is the key word

[burnt edge]

the raid in d1… you can stay and watch him float and crystallize

[dim minnow]

his body is still experiencing cell growth

[ember storm]

it just means crystals form

you know a kind of crystal that would rapidly form on your pure exposed body in the vacuum of space?

ice

[dim minnow]

looked more like Osmium to me

turned to a more black color

[burnt edge]

Yea grey/black

[ember storm]

probably a mixture of both

regardless

it's not like every atom of his body was immediately changed from biological cell to pure mineral

it just covered him

[burnt edge]

Bad screen shot but

[ember storm]

a cover that went away once his body tumbled into the depths of titan's methane ocean

[dim minnow]

well, it seems that the reason why he isn't crystalized in the dungeon is because while he was dead, his body wasn't quite

[ember storm]

not really anything you need to pay attention to now

his body is recovered

[burnt edge]

I just thought it was interesting

[dim minnow]

Cellular analysis indicates slow but active mitosis, explaining the exaggerated size of the remains when compared to the subject's last known physical dimensions. The mind is gone, but the body continues to grow.

from Ghosts of the Deep class item lore

probably related to his appearance in the dungeon

[ember storm]

y'know the wording of "exaggerated size" "compared to last known physical dimension" makes me think

[shadow crypt]

What did we do with Oryx’s body?

[ember storm]

he probably just willed himself to grow larger like how he forced his wings to grow

[burnt edge]

got locked up

basically

[ember storm]

not like the mindbender who just walked into a portal and became bigger

[burnt edge]

after the dungeon

[shadow crypt]

Yeah after the dungeon

[dim minnow]

we did the most reasonable thing we can do, bring it with us

[burnt edge]

Kinda like what we did with savathun?

[dim minnow]

yeah, but I was being ironic here in that bringing the body with us was not a good idea

[burnt edge]

how is it not? Just curious

Is it because his remains are still growing ?

[dim minnow]

the body itself is still alive and can absorb knowledge and events

[burnt edge]

OHHHH

wow

that’s insane

[shadow crypt]

Oryx coming back confirmed

🗣️

[burnt edge]

That kinda reminds me of ahamkara bones

in a way

right ?

[ember storm]

thing of it is

[dim minnow]

while the most negative thing it can do at this time is cause hallucinations, all it needs is some certain push and we got the return of Oryx

[ember storm]

oryx would probably hate coming back

[shadow crypt]

Why not like

[dim minnow]

Eris compares it more to the Crown of Sorrow

[shadow crypt]

Blow him up

[ember storm]

or at the very least get a nice mental breakdown at the happening of it

[burnt edge]

I remember that

[ember storm]

we're 2/3 osmium court mental breaks so far

might as well go for the hat trick

[burnt edge]

U think he’d have beef with savathun

[ember storm]

he'd just kill her

like actually kill her

[burnt edge]

😭

I read what hawthorn said after the dungeon and it explain that ikora was like, shellshocked basically

[ember storm]

hell if he found out her brood was trying to make him a risen lightbearer

he'd probably have an aneurysm

and then also kill her

[burnt edge]

wonder if he’d come back some time in final shape

I wonder how it’ll be like with savathun, oryx & witness

[dim minnow]

maybe Episode 3: Heresy

[ember storm]

i hope heresy focuses on nokris because it would be incredibly funny

[burnt edge]

oh god

most boring character

nokris is a cool looking enemy but the strike for it was so lame

[ember storm]

i mean it wasn't about the strike

he was just baiting us to sacrifice him to bullshit his way into the ascendant plane

[burnt edge]

so he isn’t technically dead yet

?

[ember storm]

oh did you miss this

he was found and enlisted by savathun

in exchange for teaching her his necromancy, she put him on his court

and then immediately sent him to go die while blocking our attempts to commune with the pyramid

season of arrivals

[burnt edge]

I missed that yea

I didn’t play that season

[ember storm]

pretty fun arena

ported the court of oryx map but still neat

drifter also made some taken primevals that looked like him

and he made shadow war beasts

for some reason

[burnt edge]

wtf

wow

that’s so cool

[eager trout]

What exactly are the possessed?

[ember storm]

what?

[empty fern]

What faction? Taken?

[ember storm]

hm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Possessed_(1977_film)

[eager trout]

Yeah, I think so

[ember storm]

well the taken aren’t a whole lot by themselves

they’re not even a “who” anymore

they’re just legions of different civilizations that have had their free will stripped away and physical form altered to serve the witness’ purposes

[eager trout]

By who?

[ember storm]

the witness

[eager trout]

Wait, but don't they serve the Witness anyway?

[ember storm]

I

I just said the witness takes away all their free will and changes them

the taken aren’t a naturally occurring thing at all

they’re normal life forms that are enslaved

[empty fern]

What if they were

[ember storm]

like this

this just used to be a normal fallen

[eager trout]

Yeah, but why enslave them when they're serving you anyways?

[ember storm]

all of them just used to be normal things

[ember storm]

because they’re not

they are normal

and then they’re taken

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/oryx-the-taken-king-gif-25284412

[ember storm]

becoming a taken means losing your free will

[eager trout]

If that's the naming logic, where did the Fallen fall from?

[ember storm]

their entire civilization fell and they had to resort to being pirates and warlords to survive

[empty fern]

Riis after traveler left

Fallen from grace

And for hive? Well they are bug like

[ember storm]

they burrow into planets and moons and set up massive spawning grounds

the cabal are literally a cabal

[empty fern]

Isn’t that an actual word somewhere?

[unreal rapids]

Randel, Taken Vandel

[ember storm]

it’s literally just a normal word

not somewhere

it’s just a word

[eager trout]

Ghost when there's a Cabal mining drill

[empty fern]

I see

[ember storm]

I don’t get it

[warm gazelle]

the writer of destiny's girl cheated on him with an eliksni, and now he takes out his frustration on them in fiction where they are forever getting stomped

seriously reading through the lore and it's just the Fallen getting stomped over and over

[empty fern]

Evee in lore and not media moment

[empty fern]

Well, they were the main enemy for beginning players
Like bandits in games

[ember storm]

no enemy faction ever wins

[unreal rapids]

That dreg in the winding cove you test your new exotics on.

[eager trout]

Idk, Ghost just sounds very worked up at the end of the Cabal mining drill public event.

[ember storm]

the witness is the only thing that’s ever bested us ever

[unreal rapids]

That dreg was actually a father of 4

[ember storm]

dregs are bottom of the barrel grunts

[warm gazelle]

damn bro just bc he works at mcdonalds doesn't mean he can't have a family

[unreal rapids]

Nuh huh

[empty fern]

Don’t Bring shanks into this

[unreal rapids]

Splicers

[ember storm]

that’s literally just what they are

[unreal rapids]

The engineers that make the fallen gear.

[ember storm]

fallen make their own gear

splicers specifically are a different thing

[empty fern]

All fallen are splicer?

[eager trout]

Ok, so, if the Taken were taken, the Fallen have fallen, the Cabal are a cabal, and the Hive are a hive, what is a Vex???

[warm gazelle]

yeah but like the fallen are just completely destroyed. all their houses combined, got blown up, taken, or turned into zombies

[empty fern]

Ah

[ember storm]

they focus more on bioengineering

[unreal rapids]

Anything is a splicer if you’re brave enough

[ember storm]

same thing happened to the cabal and the hive

[empty fern]

Something vexing

[ember storm]

the vex just bum around like always

it’s not special

red legion swooped up and absorbed all the other deployed cabal during the red war

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-vex-gif-15294920540671896220

[topaz pine]

this may be a weird place to ask, but does anyone have any pointers for gear i could use to make dredgen yor fashion? figured id be better off asking in the lore chat

[unreal rapids]

Just wait until those screebs get a ghost

Baby screebs

[empty fern]

I think it was mostly devastation complex

[ember storm]

the existence of baby screebs is actually

very macabre

[empty fern]

Smallen scorn

[topaz pine]

still obtainable or nah

[empty fern]

World drop so yea

[ember storm]

rip in rest but also skill issue tbh

[unreal rapids]

Ooo HIVE BRING A SWORD

[ember storm]

turned into a scorn?

[topaz pine]

thanks

[ember storm]

just don’t die

loser

[empty fern]

But

Actually I have nothing to say

[topaz pine]

Vex on the field 😔

[warm gazelle]

vex are just vibing

[unreal rapids]

Fallen near the brig

[topaz pine]

fallen on the horizon 😔

[unreal rapids]

Bring me the horizon

[topaz pine]

i thought the cabal were giant huggable pandas when i first saw them tbh

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/drifter-destiny-destiny2-gambit-laugh-gif-25143789

[unreal rapids]

I thought that exact- gets phalanxed

[topaz pine]

yet i find another gif i like, this will be a fine collection to my favorites

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-kings-fall-season-of-plunder-witch-queen-oryx-gif-26626506

[sick yew]

Bros got surprisingly clean teeth

Whats the lore on hive teeth hygene

[topaz pine]

fun fact

male cabal give birth

[ember storm]

no

[topaz pine]

yuh uh

[ember storm]

they just raise the young

[topaz pine]

oh

nvm

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/oryx-taking-himself-destiny-oryx-taken-king-gif-17498021

Nuh uh

[topaz pine]

wasnt oryx originally a female or sum shi

[ember storm]

Alex can I confirm something with you

[unreal rapids]

All that plaque

[empty fern]

Yep

[ember storm]

I just want to make sure

is it still ok if I post the suicide squad starro gif if someone asks about the traveler creating ghosts

[empty fern]

You wanna reference that of all things?

[sick yew]

Imma be real homie

No idea
I'll get back t o you

[empty fern]

Test the water

[ember storm]

I wait with bated breath

[eager trout]

Me not know what you're talking about:

[unreal rapids]

What is the English word for Daimyo? Lord of land?

[empty fern]

Look up starro in gifs (post at your own risk tho)

[empty fern]

President? Kings?

[ember storm]

supreme overlord

[empty fern]

I will smack you

[unreal rapids]

Lord Ainz Oa Gown

[warm gazelle]

landlords

[royal gazelle]

Land lords. If you want to like pick an European nobility title then, Duke I guess..since Grand Dukes or stuff would kinda be like.. shogun or something

if we are talking about uh what I think we do but..anyway

[dusty jolt]

Anyone wanna send a Paragraph of lore?

[trim grotto]

About what

[dusty jolt]

Anything but the awoken

[trim grotto]

Did you know that without a frozen rabbit embryo container literally braining some random dude, the Awoken wouldn't exist (as we know them)

Anyway uh, let's see
We could do Shin Malphur being resurrected as a child but his Ghost died, so how does he have Light?
Or the Black Heart and how it connects to the Vault of Glass
Or an interpretation of the symbology used on the Warlord's Ruin equipment by comparing it to Titan Arcology pieces

[dusty jolt]

These are all good topics

[dusty jolt]

I'd say the second one for now

[trim grotto]

Then here's one I prepared earlier
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/s/ymLdt30uqH

[dusty jolt]

Thanks

[hollow hinge]

just had a thought and felt like I had to confirm.. skating isn't lore canon, right?

[trim grotto]

Not currently. But you never know...

[jagged badge]

Wdym?

[hollow hinge]

honestly Bungie needs to just give Titans a reliable skate and make it canon if they're not gonna fix it lol

[hollow hinge]

what I said? lol

[jagged badge]

I was clarifying what you meant by skating

[jagged badge]

But I see now based on this

[dusty jolt]

Bubble skate

[shadow crypt]

Ur super goes away

[dusty jolt]

Well it's close enough lol

[shadow crypt]

Much worse actually

[hollow hinge]

I said reliable

[shadow crypt]

Wellskating and shatterskatting doesn’t consume your super

[dusty jolt]

Titans are looked down on we won't get anything like it lol

[shadow crypt]

Wait this is lore discussion

Wtf

[hollow hinge]

well... failed wellskate does take your super
No such downside to shatterskate

[shadow crypt]

Don’t fail

[shadow crypt]

Well titans do currently have the strongest subclass

[dusty jolt]

Lol

[sweet locust]

We’re the sun breakers good or evil

I know they were mercenaries,so did they only hunt threats to the humanity,or did they take contracts from enemy races and hunt down other guardians

[trim grotto]

It isn't quite that black and white, but "good". They were largely simply at odds with the Vanguard.

[sweet locust]

Why were they at odds with the vanguard?

[winter aspen]

Does speed loader slack and Luna faction came from same faction? Because they kinda looks the same

[jagged badge]

I…don’t see any resemblance at all

[solar pawn]

where is reseblance

[winter aspen]

The diamond looking thingies?

[solar pawn]

yeah i guess

[trim grotto]

I don't believe that was ever made clear, actually.

—Ghost```

[magic dragon]

Titans are big dumb big punch

Not much else

[patent lichen]

lore thats totally cannon to destinys story: omolon fluid is actually baja blast thats gone off after the collapse

[dusty jolt]

False

Crayon eater too

[trim grotto]

Aah, but Omolon invented their fluid during the City Age as a City Age company themselves.

[solar pawn]

must get pet hive worm

[trim grotto]

Pet that feeds on the ontological concept of death and parasitical bargains?

[solar pawn]

yes

[trim grotto]

Pet that would either make you submit to its will or kill you if it got the chance

[solar pawn]

that is worst case scenario but just look

[trim grotto]

That is a perfectly expected scenario

[solar pawn]

i'll just feed it other hive

[trim grotto]

That does work but they have an exponential hunger

[solar pawn]

fair

still gonna get try and get one

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/for-thousands-of-years-i-laid-dormat-gif-21763824

Hello I’m back

[solar pawn]

hi

[chrome fog]

Now, I would respond to some stuff I missed the pass three days but nah

[exotic cloak]

I understand Caitl and Savathun but there's really no opinion on Eliksni part on we just casually killing hundreds of their species without remorse eveyday?

[trim grotto]

Pardon?

[chrome fog]

… Season of the Splicer is a pretty significant insight into their side

[trim grotto]

Also they killed hundreds of our species without remorse every day too

Pretty even split of murder really

[chrome fog]

Not to mention, they too also have betrayals and conflict within and between the houses. They were not a wholly united force

[dim minnow]

and keep in midn that the Eliksni were very much the instigators

[chrome fog]

Ie Season of Plunder has some pretty clear illustrations of how cruel the Eliksni can be to each other

[dim minnow]

the ONLY questionable thing we did to them was Saint's crusade

and that was ONLY because Saint attacked Eliksni settlements that weren't involved with anything the great houses were doing

[exotic cloak]

I see

Will check on plunder and splicer later then

[chrome fog]

And Saint’s crusade against the Eliksni could implicate that his example inspired others to do much the same, though that’s if you’re taking a severely pessimistic reading into the story of “The Saint”

Or if you’re too obsessed with Future War Cult and miss the point of the space xeno-racists

[chrome fog]

Destiny Lore Vault does have playlists recording the whole season campaign of both seasons, if you’d like to review
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS2hBTtCDufQgZAAvRPamiMCkJ-r_Pef3&si=e-138W-xWbzg8YiC
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS2hBTtCDufQZa3gzBsbnRxJcjLqbS7gJ&si=Udwyz1JcQrrOiUnK

I uh, believe I also have a summary of seasons in here too, give me a minute

I hate new discord search

[trim grotto]

It's far more unreliable

[chrome fog]

God

I am physically. in pain from how they crippled it

why can I not manually input a filter, why do I have to delete everything and press the filter thing for it to filter instead of just typing the same thing

Oh yo, waltz I found your Starro gif you used for an analog between the Travelers and the Ghosts
#📚lore-discussion message

[trim grotto]

Gross.

[ember storm]

my lawyer has advised me to not speak on the matter

[chrome fog]

Daw

[ember storm]

the second it’s cleared with Alex I’m posting it again though

no prompt

[chrome fog]

It’s funny tho, it cracked me up following that description of the Traveler making Ghosts

[ember storm]

it is not untrue

they were all created and flew out at once

[chrome fog]

Very much so, I agree

[ember storm]

there wasn’t really anything ceremonious about it

literally nobody saw it happen

it just

poof

especially now that we know it wasn’t even like a big show of defiance against the witness

Savathun already managed to steer it away by then

it just happened

[chrome fog]

I think it’d be funny if no matter what angle you saw it from, the Ghosts coming forth from the Traveler just, inexplicably came from behind it, like it looks like the Traveler was in front of them all and they surged forth

But like, that’s how it looked from every angle

[ember storm]

the traveler is actually just a flat png tracking the camera at all times

Mario 64 style

[chrome fog]

Need to play Guardian Game stuff to see if there’s new lore

[ember storm]

I won’t

[eager trout]

#FlatTraveler

DON'T LISTEN TO THE VANGUARD, THE TRAVELER IS FLAT

[shadow crypt]

Can someone send a paragraph of lore

[broken zephyr]

On what topic?

[shadow crypt]

Whatever you like

Something interesting

[unreal rapids]

Traveler is actually just gardener wanting love

It’s all a dream

[broken zephyr]

Would you like to hear about the creation of the Awoken?

[shadow crypt]

Ye

[broken zephyr]

good, that's the only one I still have copied

The Awoken were made from a covenant between light and dark during the Darkness’s assault on the Traveler, essentially during The Collapse

In Forsaken, it is revealed the Awoken are the descendants of the crew and passengers of the Yang Liwei, codenamed Exodus Green, a generation ship that left Earth shortly before the Collapse in an attempt to find a way to live without the Traveler.

During this initial sparring between the two paracausal entities the Exodus Green got caught in a kugelblitz, which is basically a black hole-like anomaly in space time, that sucked it and all its inhabitants into a newborn pocket universe

[shadow crypt]

So they got sucked into another universe?

How are they in our world then

[chrome fog]

Basically, yeah

[eager trout]

They're not

[chrome fog]

The Distributary says otherwise

[eager trout]

I mean their home isn't

[chrome fog]

Like, they don’t originate from a pocket universe created by the clash of Light and Darkness during the collapse, as the Traveler tried to save the Exodus Green from the Pyramid ships at the edge of the Sol System?

Because they did; Mara took a portion of the Awoken population on a pilgrimage back to Earth after millennia passed within the Distributary, where time passes much faster than in the original universe

They generally populated the Reef - the new name for the Asteroid Belt between Mars and Saturn - as well as Earth and the Last City

[unreal rapids]

But I didn’t read the lore to realize that. It’s just the feeling you get from crushing gh- i mean looking at the traveler

[chrome fog]

Some people read the lore and still think the Witness was right. You’ve done better recognizing than a good number of them, so good job

[unreal rapids]

I feel bad for the witness

[chrome fog]

Very coincidentally the Traveler is called the Gardener in other entries, so good job seeing that parallel

[unreal rapids]

Witness just wanted love, now we will probably end up the same. The witness is most likely going to try to keep it with us or make it to where we no longer have to suffer

I vouch for them,it? …supreme coagulation?

[chrome fog]

Witness has gone fully off the deep end, they are wholly dedicated to either making everything in constant strife to prove they deserve to exist or just kill all life

[unreal rapids]

I need sleep. It’s 2hours past. I 100% support the witness. Let everything burn

[chrome fog]

They sought a definition for existence when it’s apparent that there is no inherent meaning to living, it is what you make of it. You Make Your Own Fate.

[unreal rapids]

As the atheon said

[chrome fog]

WOW, 2 for 0 on lore deductions

[unreal rapids]

Or the relic guardian

[chrome fog]

Aegis guardian, name was Praedyth I believe

[unreal rapids]

It’s got a ghost shell in the center

[chrome fog]

Atheon doesn’t speak really, none of the Vex do

[unreal rapids]

I meant the phrase guardian make their own fate

[shadow crypt]

Do like the other enemy races speak English?

[unreal rapids]

Meanwhile we still can’t make our fatebringer x 10 years

It’s all just schizophrenia. None of this is real

[chrome fog]

Nope, it was Kabr

[chrome fog]

It is all real

That’s the point

[trim grotto]

Praedyth was the Warlock stuck in the network working with the 227.

Same fireteam, wrong member.

[chrome fog]

Mael I knoow I did an oopsie

[shadow warren]

They can

[unreal rapids]

No I meant my medication

[shadow warren]

We’ve heard each race speak English

[unreal rapids]

Lmao

[shadow warren]

I don’t assume it’s taught in their culture normally but idk

[shadow crypt]

Yeah it’s interesting to think about

[unreal rapids]

If the guardian turned into a harpy, does that now mean that vex speak English?

[chrome fog]

[shadow warren]

Ciaitl makes it a point that she learnt our language

[shadow warren]

Vexish

[shadow warren]

I lied

Don’t think we’ve heard vex?

[unreal rapids]

If toland is pure mass energy plasma from radiating torn effigy thingy stuff, does that mean the light speaks English?

[chrome fog]

They’ve assimilated guardians and English speaking individuals, so they can simulate someone speaking

[dim minnow]

there was that one Harpy on the Nessus quest

[unreal rapids]

We’ve heard vex

[shadow warren]

Oh the friendly one

True

[unreal rapids]

It sounds like this

[chrome fog]

No he’s just. A spark of Light, trapped in a tiny Throneworld the size of that ball

[unreal rapids]

So a pokeball

[chrome fog]

He’s a former Guardian

[dim minnow]

and not sure if it counts, but there was the creepy messages from Quria in the Corrupted Expunge missions back in Splicer

[unreal rapids]

The ogre eye turret guy or the lady that dissects things for fun?

[chrome fog]

One he willingly put himself into at the cost of his fireteam’s lives; Eris was the only one who survived Toland’s Hive Simpery

[shadow warren]

Thinking about it, it makes the most sense for vex to know English lol

[chrome fog]

Taken Vex Hydra from Plunder

[dim minnow]

Quria is a Taken Vex mind

[unreal rapids]

the traveler is just a trainer, the ghosts are the pokeballs and we are the victims

Prove me wrong

[shadow warren]

Better analogies probably exist

[unreal rapids]

But it’s truth!!

[shadow warren]

But in that sense maybe

Dibs on being lugia

[unreal rapids]

Think about it. What happens when we die? We get returned to a ghost. The ghost “revives” us, and we fight

[chrome fog]

Ghosts are not literal Ghosts

[gentle geyser]

What huffing ether does to a non Eliksni individual

[chrome fog]

But also I wanna be that fanmade gigantimax of Golurk

[unreal rapids]

We are all brainwashed. We just don’t know it yet

[chrome fog]

N. no

[unreal rapids]

You stay away from my stash

[chrome fog]

The Traveler

[unreal rapids]

Just wait till my club hand cannon pops up. Baby ace is back in action no more hard luck

[chrome fog]

The Traveler barely speaks to anyone at all, that very point causes a crisis of faith for everyone who's believed in it constantly

[unreal rapids]

The traveler is just shy… stage fright

[chrome fog]

It has barely any influence save for the values that others have imprinted upon it

[chrome fog]

She mercy killed a Ghost to prevent it from being slowly disected by Rhulk so he could access the Light within

[unreal rapids]

It had a boo boo under it and now wants us to soon repair it.

[gentle geyser]

I feel like the traveler would stream on twitch

[chrome fog]

She is purposeful in interfering in mortal affairs save for... saving them with gifts

[unreal rapids]

Poor rhulk and his blown avisorated body casket

[chrome fog]

He is not a good person, we do not give him pity

Very much so

[unreal rapids]

Rest in peace rhulk. You stench

[chrome fog]

Literal school shooter who, when given power by the Witness, decided to shoot up his entire race and the star of his home planet

[unreal rapids]

Sounds like the quiet kid

With main character syndrome

[chrome fog]

He was the runt of his family and very much did not have the right mindset

[gentle geyser]

I can fix him

[unreal rapids]

His favorite color is probably orange.

[chrome fog]

I need to start saving copies of my tangents, or at least message links to them

[gentle geyser]

Lol

[unreal rapids]

Oh I need sleep now. It was fun talking here. Much better here than being bullied by an Eva something forgot her name.

[trim grotto]

Alrighty
I've got a beer, I've finished work, I'm sitting in the beer garden outside in the shade of a sunny day
What's on for lore today, friends

[chrome fog]

Because I’m missing my rundown of lore from about Beyond Light and also the analysis of the Witness vs the Traveler which serves as an allegory for fighting against nihilism through self-definition

[unreal rapids]

WWE shaxx rematches ikora

He finds his missing horn again but not in the right spot

[trim grotto]

It's implied Shaxx lost his horn in Six Fronts

[chrome fog]

Mael do Vex have a form of speech like English or Eliksni?

[trim grotto]

Not as a classic language per se, though there are some consistencies in their programming language(s)

Let me find something

[chrome fog]

Like I would’ve thought, considering they’re all connected through the Vex Network

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/brass-gardeners

[chrome fog]

So they wouldn’t have much use for verbal speech since they’d just share information via the Vex Network

[trim grotto]

This is wild to read but with some imagination and programming knowledge you can make something useful out of it

[chrome fog]

I wanted to say Sars might have something to say about that entry but also idk if he’s read it

[trim grotto]

I believe he did but the new Discord search flat out refuses to work properly

So I can't help you, at least on mobile

[chrome fog]

I’m gonna consolidate my lore stuff tomorrow because I do not want to be on my laptop this late

[warm gazelle]

the darkness is the Humane Society lmfao

the witness is paul mccartney

[eager trout]

What's the lore on subclass elements?

Are they like...elements that compose the universe?

[blazing wasp]

Uhhh

As far as I know em

Solar is nuclear fusion

(Like the sun, basically)

Arc is the thingamajings that hold atoms together

[eager trout]

Ohhhhh, thats why chain lightning

[eager trout]

Solar grenade literally being a star:

[blazing wasp]

Void is... weird, it's quantum space shit (or "nothing") but also gravity stuff, but also... how to put it

Imagine a bottle of nothing

[eager trout]

Black hole

[blazing wasp]

Now imagine opening the Cork on that bottle

The effect of air rushing in

That's also void

[eager trout]

Nova Bomb is literally the formation process of a black hole but simplified

Supernova explodes -> black hole

[blazing wasp]

Stasis is stopping everything, everything

Which is why something frozen immediately regains the heat it had upon "thawing"

[eager trout]

Entropy

[blazing wasp]

And you don't freeze to death in stasis despite it stopping your everything

Yea

Stasis is for all intents and purposes a pause button

It doesn't necessarily remove energy, it temporarily stops it, like paused in time

[eager trout]

So with shatter (or whatever it's called) is like pausing the video, taking the disc/cassette out, and breaking it to pieces/taking the tape out and cutting it.

[blazing wasp]

Uh

I guess, I'm unsure about that part

But being frozen completely kinda makes you brittle

So that could also be why

Freezing rubber makes it shatter despite usually not being brittle

Could just be that

[eager trout]

And Strand is what keeps reality together, right?

[empty fern]

Idk ask @trim grotto

[ember storm]

the weave is like a psychic web connecting life together

strand is just the ability to utilize the weave

[eager trout]

Hol' up, is the Veil made of Weave?

[ember storm]

no

darkness is just intrinsically linked to the mind and the veil is the “purest” source of darkness in the universe

the two aren’t inherently related but the veil’s influence just let us access the weave on neomuna which we can now do anywhere

[warm gazelle]

wait like the Force

[chrome fog]

We do have a handy post in the pins which explores what the subclasses are

[chrome fog]

We don’t know what the Veil is made of, we barely know what it is; all it did was reveal to us a secondary layer to the universe called the Weave, which we learn to manipulate via the Darkness because 1) that is the domain of Darkness, to influence through the mental and metaphysical, and 2) the Weave is an entirely psychic layer to reality which connects everything (and also might have some connections to electromagnetism based on its aesthetics being based on uhhh the experiment that demonstrates the dual nature of photos)

[chrome fog]

Pretty much the Force as it is presented in the original Trilogy, yes

[chrome fog]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/k4k6ox/light_is_not_the_fundamental_forces

We also have something on Stasis
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/tb1svc/an_updated_analysis_of_stasis

I would’ve personally explained the subclasses but I just woke up so I’m opting to defer to where we get our interpretations of what Light and Darkness are to the posts which best explain it

Oh also Osiris explains both the dichotomy between Light and Darkness, as well as what the elements individually are (Stasis and Strand included)
https://youtu.be/3UKeMo3UerU?si=Q7SiKaNeZ7qOzzGM
https://youtu.be/sHEAxl8LOxU?si=c5_-rsXkPDFYjl0M

[abstract pagoda]

Who is concerdat?

[devout nimbus]

A guardian faction that was a member of the consensus

They attempted a coup to overthrow the consensus and the speaker

[dim minnow]

They were a faction that used to be a part of the Consensus. However. Their leader, Lysander, attempted a coup which was thwarted by New Monarchy at Bannerfall (the Crucible map). Ever since then, Lysander was banished from the city and the Concordat was replaced by Future War Cult.

Though Lysander has been secretly sending gifts to guardians and trying to rally supporters. The Skimmers in particular were sent as a "peace offering"

[jagged badge]

I wonder what the average Last City citizen thinks of the Neomuni

[dim minnow]

"What the fuck is an arcade?"

[jagged badge]

Real

Fr though, I wonder if there’s a feeling of resentment that people may have towards them

[dim minnow]

Well them not doing anything to help us during the Red War probably left an impact on Last City opinions

[ember storm]

you don’t really need to post it in multiple channels

[eager trout]

Yeah, but here it could start a discussion of the lore

[dim minnow]

Not really no

[eager trout]

Plus, most people tend to ignore it-

Who can identify what each picture is?

[devout nimbus]

@eager trout please keep it to media

[eager trout]

Ok

[fresh zephyr]

the witness is pretty hardcore in the lore

The people you’ve failed, the loved ones you’ve lost… you don’t care about them. Everything you’ve done, you’ve done for yourself. Everything you’ve ever wanted, you’ll get-on Europa. Everything you need is there for you. Take it. Don’t let anyone stand in your way.
Your fears will be assuaged. Your legacy, secured. Your mind, immortalized. Join the Architects. They will speak of the name Bray then, and it will echo through time and space.
The way is clear. The first step is yours to take.
Or you can beat your head against a wall until nothing remains but a bloody stump. At least then you’d leave a stain behind.

• witness so clovis, even i went damn

[ember storm]

I don’t remember this

[abstract pagoda]

What other gifts has he sent?

[devout nimbus]

I believe skimmers are all we know of

[fresh zephyr]

its from here https://www.destinypedia.com/Destiny_Grimoire_Anthology,_Volume_III

[chrome fog]

Only thing Destinypedia is good for aside from sometimes sourcing info: excerpts of the physical releases of lore

[fresh zephyr]

i use it whenever i just want a quick summary of something

like how Byf videos makes me feel like im at church, too much sometimes

so instead ill watch this dude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6okaeaDT6FE

[chrome fog]

I mean fair, but also Evaze has put out some… questionable lore videos before

[dim minnow]

there was a Sparrow from D1

[abstract pagoda]

Oh ok

[warm gazelle]

So are the Hive individuals? I thought they were called the Hive because they all shared a single hivemind, but they also talk about specific Hive like they're people with their own personalities and will.

[chrome fog]

The Vex are somewhat a Hivemind, the Hive are all individual

Being an individual is important to their faith, the Sword Logic, as it requires that all life prove itself, that every individual kill those weaker than them to prove they are more deserving to exist

[dim minnow]

not really a Hivemind

[dim minnow]

the naming convention of "Hive" comes from the insect-like design philosophy they use

in terms of hiveminds, the closest we have to those are the Taken who are controlled by a single leader

though some Taken can be left with some free will either by tricking Oryx like in Riven's case or being left with it just for the hell of it like in Quria's case

but then those stronger Taken would become new leaders for their groups of Taken

Riven taking over Dreamtown Taken and Savathun using Quria to control her own groups of Taken

then Xivu would pull up and her Glimmer daddy (the Witness) would give her control over whatever Taken were left when Riven and Quria were taken out

[chrome fog]

I know, probably should have emphasized somewhat a hivemind, in the sense they are somewhat mentally connected to each other and can deliver directives to each other, but it's more instinctual than a conventional Hivemind in fiction

Not that the Vex follow conventional psychological structure, they can't even thing figuratively/symbolically

[fast tapir]

lmao thats an amazing way to put it

[next bobcat]

Sooo basically, since it’s almost confirmed that Halo and Destiny are in the same universe, my theory is that there are 2 almost identical Milky Way galaxies in this universe, housing 2 different earths: the Halo Earth and the Destiny Earth. The Nine brought some halo artifacts to destiny, but they got kind of warped into different versions as they traveled eg. half truths.

Pretty dumb idea but I just felt like it needed to be said

[jagged badge]

That’s…not true

[blazing wasp]

No

The dares stuff is some paraverse bullshit and only strongly implied to be halo related at all through that

[warm gazelle]

pretty sure bungie would get sued for every penny they have if they put explicitly Halo material in D2

[rich veldt]

pretty sure a d2 halo connection like that would never happen

given bungie own no rights to halo

[warm gazelle]

yes

[devout nimbus]

What's up with the k1 artifact?

As in what is it

[chrome fog]

They aren’t because 1) the Halo copyright is owned by Microsoft, who has licensed it out to 343 to develop Halo games in-house, Bungie hasn’t worked on a Halo game since Reach; 2) if you have done any Dares of Eternity runs and discovered the quest for the Forerunner exotic, Destiny and Halo are different universes within the Paraverse, Bungie’s name for multiverse. They’ve played with this concept before in their Marathon series, I believe, and is why there is also Marathon references in Destiny, both from Dares as well as the MIDA Minitool, which originates from Marathon and in-game has no traceable origins save for being from another universe

Fun Fact: the Paraverse is why every Crota we kill in Dares is an actual copy of Crota

Same with the other bosses and enemies, they are versions of themselves from another universe

However I do have to state that Dares and it’s Paraverse shenanigans are wholly isolated to themselves as in-universe; as in, the wacky Starhorse is a being of indescribable power (th-they’re Bungie, it’s just. They’re Bungie no bullshittin) who allows us to get weapons and armor from Dares and nothing else

[trim grotto]

All of what was just said by bionicle is a long way of saying "no, they're not."
Nine aren't relevant, universes are unrelated outside of Dares which is half canon at best, and the entire thing was just Bungie celebrating their past. 30th anniversary.

[whole blade]

About to finish lightfall and I was thinking, do we play as the most important / strongest guardian in universe? Because we never fight alongside other guardians in the campaign and I feel like every universe ending threat could’ve been paid a little more attention to by the lightbearer community at large

[trim grotto]

We are not the strongest. We're competent, reliable, and often in the right place at the right time.

[devout nimbus]

Anyone know?

[whole blade]

Fair enough, thanks

[devout nimbus]

Same as in halo funnily enough

[trim grotto]

It is... an amorphous blob of Darkness.
It's a bit of a long story and I can try and explain it tomorrow when it isn't 3AM and I'm not on my mobile

[devout nimbus]

Roger that

[light stratus]

Does oryx have a phenix or is that something they made up in dynasty

[devout nimbus]

A what

[empty fern]

What the hell is a phenix

[warm gazelle]

marcus phenix, the protagonist of Gears of War trilogy

[empty fern]

Phenix
The little brother of the Phoenix

[devout nimbus]

Close cousin to the phalanx

[light stratus]

https://youtu.be/nYKLdj7J7_Q?si=SVtHWY52ZdRxtgt7 check at 1:02:00

[light stratus]

I spelt it wrong

[empty fern]

Spell it right

[devout nimbus]

"Listen to me emperor raven"

[light stratus]

Also the image that's with it

[devout nimbus]

Cosmic raven I guess

Phoenixes are usually on fire

[chrome fog]

Dynasty is not canon, it is Byf’s own interpretation of the Hive’s origins based on lore we had available at the time; Witch Queen answered much of what Byf sought to answer in his Dynasty videos, as so far there is not mention of Phoenixes in Destiny save for a nickname for Osiris

[devout nimbus]

What's the nickname?

[jagged badge]

Phoenix

[chrome fog]

Because y’know

People thought he was dead, but he was mucking about the Infinite Corridors

[devout nimbus]

Oh the nickname was just phoenix

Kinda boring

[chrome fog]

Also fire bird, Osiris the Egyptian god had a bird head, he has feathers and also sunbracers

Super op with handling the Light, multicasting different element supers during I believe Six Fronts? And also projecting copies of himself across the fronts, via Vex tech

[crimson bobcat]

Who even would be the strongest character in the Destiny universe only counting Guardians? I know Drifter is pretty cracked

I’d say Osiris but his powers are gone

[chrome fog]

Not really a Strongest Character, Paracausality exists to explicitly change that aspect of reality; it’s space magic which purposefully makes it so that anyone can win

[crimson bobcat]

Right, that makes sense

[chrome fog]

Like considering the Guardian is well rounded but not overall better at anything than anyone else, yet has beaten a number of humanity’s enemies, strength does not wholly determine the victor

[crimson bobcat]

True. Our guardian is kinda in the right place at the right time almost every single time

[devout nimbus]

Yeah he's the goat

Flexing how good warlocks are

[crimson bobcat]

Thousands of different copies of himself

[chrome fog]

Additionally, this power comes with the lesson that we have to be responsible with it, that Might does not make Right, might is what we use to help those in need

[crimson bobcat]

Dude we need a show just about Dredgen Yor’s story

Bungie and Sony could make bank off that

Just so well written

[devout nimbus]

They'll just halo it

[crimson bobcat]

True they would

I feel like it would be good tho just because Sony’s behind it and Sony’s pretty solid at movies and shows

[chrome fog]

Morbius (nah but I get what you mean)

[crimson bobcat]

I hate the way they ended Joker’s Wild. Shin Malphur had so much potential just for him to leave again

[crimson bobcat]

True lmao

[jagged badge]

[chrome fog]

I think it’s fitting considering 1) he was kind of a messy presence in the lore, and 2) he’d been dealing with Yor’s shit for a while, thankfully Gambit helped him shut down anyone seeking to be the sequel to Yor’s menace

[crimson bobcat]

That’s true. I just think it would’ve been neat if he actually played a part in the story but I know the dudes a bit crazy and an asshole

What do you think about the Darkness Ships being just completely empty?

[chrome fog]

I believe the exotic missions from that season gave him more relevance, you find his broken Last Word and repair as well as the og Thorn, purify it back into Rose, and then transform it into Lumina

[crimson bobcat]

True and we learned his objective and goal from the Malfeasence mission

[chrome fog]

There’s implications of semi-sentience within each Pyramid, and also all of them can be controlled by the Witness at any one time (not to mention it can also just make itself appear in any of them)

[crimson bobcat]

Yeah, the pyramids also have their own like “personalities” you could say

[chrome fog]

Eh, nothing so much to imply they have personalities, but they themselves are aware and can respond to stuff within them without the Witness’ input

[crimson bobcat]

Yeah that’s what I kinda mean

There’s still possiblyyyyy one more disciple too. Well known disciple. We don’t know if he’s an actual disciple but he’s a potential disciple

Uun is his name if I remember right?

It would make sense since Rhulk kinda trained him from his birth to be a servant to the Darkness but we really don’t know much about Uun

[chrome fog]

Rhulk is a bit of a dipshit tho, a genuine meathead

[crimson bobcat]

True, he’s not very bright

The dude made some questionable decisions

[chrome fog]

Considering he genocided a species instead of convincing them to follow the Witness’ cause and the Witness chastises him for it

[crimson bobcat]

Yeah, could we really even call the Witness a villain honestly? He’s kindaaaaa justified at least for why he hates the Traveler and wants to track it down but not really justified for wanting to wipe humanity

[chrome fog]

It is a villain, very much so

It is forcing other civilizations to subscribe to its beliefs - if they don’t decide to eradicate them because of said beliefs - and it might have reached the conclusion that either all life lives in constant strife to prove their necessity to live or all life dies

[crimson bobcat]

Right since his entire belief is that everything should stay the same or just end

To make it simple I guess

I can’t wait for Final Shape as much as people are bashing it just because this will wrap up the story that we know so far. I’ve got a bunchhhh of theories

[jagged badge]

Btw, the Witness is “it”, not “he”

Or his or whatever

[crimson bobcat]

Yeah I know, I realized that after I sent the message but didn’t care to go back and fix it

[ember storm]

the entire reason the traveler ran from the witness is that the civilization wanted to use it to rewrite reality to its horrible whims

it has zero justification

more so from the fact the entire race ritualistically committed suicide/sacrificed itself to become what it is now

I honestly sincerely doubt everyone was on board but we see the process involved piles of bodies

[crimson bobcat]

Yeah there’s no way their entire race was okay with it

Like taking it that far

I still don’t think Final Shape will be the end of the Darkness. You can’t really just get rid of the Darkness entirely since Light and Dark go hand in hand

And the Witness isn’t even the Darkness itself, just a servant. We just don’t know much about the Darkness itself

[ember storm]

the witness isn’t a servant of anything aside from its own ideology

[crimson bobcat]

Right but just the way he utilizes the Darkness

[shadow warren]

What influenced the witness’s ideology

I know it has beef with the traveler but how did that draw it to the conclusion that it has to kill everything in the universe

[chrome fog]

Nihilism

Just straight up, the conclusion which absurdist nihilism reaches, in that there is not inherent purpose to existence

Which collectively the Witness species went “nah there has to be meaning, Traveler give us meaning to living” but the whole deal with the Traveler is that she does as little intervention into a species existence to see how they will develop and if they learn to use their power responsibly

[shadow warren]

So it just came to that conclusion on its own

[chrome fog]

Yeah

[shadow warren]

Huh

I see ty

[chrome fog]

Well, they came to that conclusion as a species, then decided to do Darkness stuff about it and make it so they define the meaning of life for everyone else so that “they can be saved” from having to make their own reason for living

“Guardians make their own Fate” is a vital counter to this entitlement to a meaning for existence, because it’s not wholly up to others to tell you why you should live

[shadow warren]

Oh interesting

[chrome fog]

You live, you have agency, and it’s up to you to take what you have at your disposal and ensure others can continue their own existence as well, all whilst not forcefully imposing your definition of living into others

Even Unveiling presents this as the Traveler/Gardener’s goal, as questionable as that book is

It’s also why the Sword Logic and the Witness’ beliefs closely resemble Social Darwinism, that misguided interpretation of Darwin’s theory of evolution and adaptation

From a pessimistic, nihilistic view, all life is born to struggle and fight against each other to ensure that they can live, it is Eat or Be Eaten

But then why do we develop art, civilizations, culture if that’s supposedly the end goal of existence? If everything is to be the Last One Standing, why do we stop and enjoy life and its beauty? Why do we build, cultivate, garden?

The Witness is a pile of stupidly depressed and nihilistic pile of corpses masquerading as Salvation because it cannot be convinced that all there is to life is what we make of it

Letting it win means that everything we take for granted, all the interesting relationships and experiences we live through will be thrown away in exchange for only warring against one another

No story. No meaning. Just strife.

Just a sandbox to shoot guns and slaughter others in

The Witness co-opted Darkness to further push its influence across the universe, used its power to draw others to the same conclusion of life only being for conflict, when it’s simply a force which we can use to gain new perspective on our existence

Darkness and Light were never Evil and Good respectively, they were always sides to Paracausality, a way in which individuals can make reality more the way that they desired

[analog torrent]

Thoughts on the 6th grimoire/Partners in Light?

[chrome fog]

I’ll need to read up on it, gonna have to use Destinypedia’s transcripts since I don’t have access to them

Whiiich they don’t have, neat

I’m very interested in what it reveals about “Ghosts who’ve sought out partners beyond humanity.” and whether that’s just bait and just shared the entry about a ghost’s pull towards its guardian leading it to a pile of dead dregs, and it believing it’s being guided to Rez one of them but it ends up just being an Awoken underneath the corpse pile

[next bobcat]

Ok. Yes, yes that makes sense.

But there are also destiny references In halo, namely the poster with the earth and the traveler that says “destiny awaits”. I’m guessing that’s either not canon, or it proves that destiny is just a videogame series in the world of halo.

[jagged badge]

Or it’s simply just an easter egg to tease their upcoming game and nothing more

[next bobcat]

Or that

On this topic, what the hell is Xur?

[ember storm]

by our best estimates, a Jovian

which means a person who’s settled along the Jovian moons of Saturn

they probably don’t look like he does, though, if he even actually is one

he’s a special case thanks to the nine

[wheat lava]

He stands the way he does since his spine is broken

[chrome fog]

He stood straight in D1, got his back broken by Orin, an Awoken Guardian who was on a mission to contact the Nine on the order of Mara; she gets co-opted as their Emissary who helps communicate the Nine’s wishes

[chrome fog]

Fun fact: he is also dying slightly faster than normal people

[next bobcat]

I always thought the emissary was the exo stranger since stasis and also the voice

[chrome fog]

The Nine fucked up in making Xur their servant, and so his atoms are literally breaking apart

[chrome fog]

?

[next bobcat]

In prophecy

[chrome fog]

The Emissary is not at all an Exo

She’s very much an Awoken

[next bobcat]

Ik but

The voice is the same

[heady monolith]

they just share the same va

they arent the same character

[next bobcat]

On that topic, why does Elsie bray’s voice suddenly change accent

[chrome fog]

… va change

[chrome fog]

https://youtu.be/YEb_eNvmxgU?si=YqvVmA40rz_v6Jwx

[heady monolith]

its the same va, she just changed to an american accent

[next bobcat]

Yeah

Why?

[chrome fog]

Just because

[heady monolith]

assumably to avoid confusion that the emissary and elsie are the same person

[next bobcat]

She had the same accent all the way through BL, prophecy was before that

[heady monolith]

she also had the accent way back in d1 y1

[next bobcat]

Yeah

[chrome fog]

Either way, that’s not indicative of anything given that the Emissary is very much an Awoken and Exo Stranger is an Exo

[heady monolith]

during season of the seraph was when the accent changed

[next bobcat]

Weird

[chrome fog]

So far va similarities are not indicative of anything as generally their voices will come with a name that indicates who is speaking (in the UI)

I believe some vas like Ikora’s and Eris’ play as Savathun and Xivu I think? I know they’re also playing other important roles

[jagged badge]

Nope

Ikora - Mara Junot
Eris - Morla Gorrondona
Savathûn - Debra Wilson
Xivu Arath - Kimberly Brooks

Mara Junot also voiced Chioma Esi though

Not sure if the others have any alternative voicing credits within Destiny

[chrome fog]

Thank you very much, Eris

[jagged badge]

This was meant to be a reply

Not sure why it wasn’t

Cheers Discord

[jagged badge]

Different voice actor in D1 though I believe

Lauren Cohan in D1 and Moira Quirk in D2

[broken zephyr]

I'll ask here since it's more appropriate technically
Legendary guns can have lore, I thought only Exotics ones did?

[chrome fog]

I mean it's very clear they have lore entries if you look at the buttons for the menu

Select, Exit, and sometimes Lore

[broken zephyr]

Fair enough

[chrome fog]

No prob

[ember storm]

most commonly raid or trials weapons

and sometimes destination

also dungeon

basically anything aside from random world drop or playlist

[trim grotto]

And seasonal

[chrome fog]

Seasonal has lore

[trim grotto]

That's what I meant

[chrome fog]

The sequence of Waltz saying “basically anything aside …” and then saying “and seasonal” implied it was with the group without lore, it just read weird

[next bobcat]

so is crota very much truly dead?

and is "disciple" an actual occupation thing, or is it just a title?

creating an exotic weapon and i want it to be at least somewhat lore accurate

[trim grotto]

Very much
No Throne World, no Oversoul, no essence

[trim grotto]

Um. Both? There are very few actually titled Disciples, and each are dedicated to the Witness and the Final Shape.

[next bobcat]

could i have someone titled "disciple of crota" as he liked his ideals and wants to return him to existence?

[trim grotto]

Even for the Hive, Crota's chance of return has passed. They already tried.

But, sure. The term of Disciple wouldn't have the same gravity as it would for one of the Witness, however.

[smoky rose]

You could make it a lucent hive and have them try to rez crota like they tried to bring back oryx

But doing that again might be a little on the nose

[warm gazelle]

would a ghost even agree to choose Oryx

like, rezing a hive at all seems like a stretch tbh

but Oryx is like

the worst

but idk the lucent hive stuff doesn't make much sense to me

[smoky rose]

A lot of ghosts are sympathetic to the hive

Given their origins

That is to say, intended to be chosen by the traveler, smallest fish in the pond that was Fundament, corrupted by the darkness

To some extent they feel they are just righting a wrong

A lot of them are also assholes who would love to have the biggest and baddest hive as their chosen

[warm gazelle]

Sure, but they're cool with their guardian getting killed?

maybe all these ghosts being willing to switch sides is more of an indictment of the guardians they serve than praise of the hive

[trim grotto]

If a Ghost has rezzed a Hive, then they have never had a Guardian. There is no actual evidence of a Ghost ever rezzing a second partner, human or otherwise.

They are unpaired. Lonely.

Their singular purpose in life withheld, for one reason or another.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-lucent-tales
You may find some interesting perspectives here

From the Ghosts themselves

[warm gazelle]

How have they gone, what, hundreds of years? Without finding a single chosen until now.

[trim grotto]

Because if they believe in the one chosen idea, then they're looking for a needle amongst a thousand haybales. Humanity spread across the entire solar system, multiple billions of beings across numerous planets.

A Ghost is one being, singularly searching, scanning each individual body. Hoping to find someone compatible.

Sometimes they simply never find their Chosen. Sometimes their Chosen is no longer available to find. Maybe they haven't even died yet, or maybe the Ghost just gave up.

The chances of a Ghost finding their partner is astronomical at best. The chances of finding a second, if it is even possible...

Not high.

Many Ghosts remain unpaired. Those who gave up or lost their Guardians often work for the Tower as part of the Spectral Network.

[warm gazelle]

I see. It's strange to me the Traveler would create the ghosts with the ability to even bond with the puppets of its enemy, but maybe it couldn't be picky in that way.

[trim grotto]

Funny you should mention that. Here's some food for thought, bear with me.

When did the Ghosts first start pairing with the Hive?

[warm gazelle]

I actually don't know. I played Destiny 2's campaigns completely out of order, apparently.

I saw them first in Witch Queen I believe but where that is in the timeline-no clue.

[trim grotto]

You did, that's true.

The Ghosts started pairing with the Hive after Savathûn's exorcism. When she was freed from her parasite Worm, when she broke free of that Dark, cursed covenant.

The Traveler always intended on uplifting the proto-Hive/Krill back on Fundament after it was finished with the Ammonite on Fundament's moons.
But the proto-Hive were stolen from under her by the Worm Gods.

[next bobcat]

GotD was about trying to force a ghost to bring oryx back

and we stopped it

[trim grotto]

With Savathûn free of her Worm, and her simple gamble, her request to live... the Traveler decided to do what it always does. To stop, and in an act of grace, offer mercy to the very first of the Hive who were once taken from the Traveler.

Savathûn has abused that power. But the Traveler's morals remain consistent. Grace, mercy, and above all else, freedom of choice. Savathûn and her Hive were given their second chance.

What she chooses to do with that is up to her.

[warm gazelle]

I'm kind of curious what the prerequisites are for the Traveler to grant lightbearing. Why the Hive and Humanity, but not like, the Cabal. Or the Eliksni.

[warm gazelle]

Ah. How do you force a ghost to bring someone back?

[trim grotto]

She never visited the Cabal. To be fair, she never had to, even if she were to get in their proximity. They are warmongering and violent, but they became spacefaring in their own right.
As for the Eliksni... it's hard to say, really. If she so chose, I imagine the Ghosts could begin to rez them. Their circumstances only differed from ours because she fled Riis in an attempt to draw the Black Fleet away and save them. Had she stood with them instead of us, they might be in the same situation as we.

[next bobcat]

the traveler is a she?

or is that a typo

[trim grotto]

To be frank, we don't know if their attempt would even work. It was a combined effort of necromancy and Ghost rezzing, but it's very possible that neither would work.

But the chance of Oryx rising again was too much to risk.

[trim grotto]

It's been often referred to as such under a few circumstances. I like to use it as a way to relate to it.

[warm gazelle]

Using necromancy to bring things back from death is already a thing. That's what the Scorn are, right? Was the ghost just meant to make Oryx lucent as well?

[next bobcat]

wel...

not entirely

thats more darkness rather than hive magic

the ghost was trying to make him lucent tho

[trim grotto]

The necromancy was likely an attempt to make Oryx rezzable to the Ghost. As I said, it's entirely possible it wouldn't have worked.

The Lucent Brood were trying to rez Oryx. Oryx as a Lightbearer, alongside Savathûn, would be a truly terrifying situation.

[next bobcat]

here's one thing... could we steal a scorn crossbow and pull a Pirrha?

[warm gazelle]

crossbows would be awesome as a new weapon type

[next bobcat]

not what i meant exactly, but yes it would

special ammo bow variant?

[warm gazelle]

ja