📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

it’s a ship made out of a corpse it’s not really going anywhere

[shadow crypt]

Oh

Has it been like used by the Witness or Xivu before?

[ember storm]

no

[vital lodge]

as a titan main

I do need to say

the Dreadnaught

is very

Hammer shaped.

[ember storm]

well some of her army was freeloading there during Deep but they’re just either dead or abandoned

[vital lodge]

somebody get the new Eris to make it into a hammer exotic

[fresh zephyr]

gatekeeping channels

yeah nah, i aint that deep into it

i like game i play, i talk about game. doesnt matter to me what it is or where or with who

[jagged badge]

You can do so without breaking the server’s rules

[fresh zephyr]

you just did

but thats just being silly

[jagged badge]

[fresh zephyr]

no one likes, whats the word

party poopers

[jagged badge]

You done?

[fresh zephyr]

who knows?

Delusional

anyways~~

lets wipe

i fail upwards

[clever nacelle]

who is/are the Nine?

[jagged badge]

Sentient space dust that formed due to life in the Solar System

Their survival is reliant on our and Sol’s survival

Which is why they both try to help us in ways but also seek independence

[clever nacelle]

is prophecy in any way related to the main story of destiny?

[ember storm]

mo

prophecy isn’t even a prophecy

the nine have no predictive clairvoyance

power just assume the Kell echo is referencing Eramis but like

nothing about prophecy is substantial at all

we just ask them one question and that’s what they think of the light and dark

[jagged badge]

Prophecy is just the Nine giving us their thoughts on Light and Darkness and a world without either

[ember storm]

their answer is that they’re just equal in terms of usage and quality

so not really eye opening

[jagged badge]

It also happened to tease the destinations which would be Taken by the Witness so

Technically a prophecy to some extent

[ember storm]

ehhh

[pallid lintel]

woah you guys are so smart

[ember storm]

pretty sure some of the locations are just unrelated

I think

I don’t remember

[jagged badge]

Nah, all the locations are the ones that got Taken

[ember storm]

well that’s also not really them predicting anything

all four locations were just visited by giant pyramids

[jagged badge]

Oh yeah fair

I forgor because I didn’t play Arrivals

[ember storm]

I should get the hunter armor eventually

helmet is perfect

[jagged badge]

I use the helmet on my Hunter

Assuming you mean Moonfang ofc

[ember storm]

I don’t know anyone who uses the totn armor

[jagged badge]

You’ve seen my Hunter fashion right Waltz?

[ember storm]

no

[vital lodge]

do we know what Pookas are yet

[ember storm]

things

[vital lodge]

do we know why stranger has one

[ember storm]

she found it

[vital lodge]

but how

[jagged badge]

I believe they were created with nanotech but are also somehow able to be considered wild and have juveniles

[vital lodge]

space fish

[jagged badge]

I think they were created with the research into the Veil given their apparent sentience and connection to memory

[vital lodge]

somebody give on to Osiris, he needs a buddy

[jagged badge]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/speed-metal-shell

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/quicksilver-storm

[vital lodge]

that bootup==fail hurts me

who the heck is Ace

[chrome fog]

AV! HI

[vital lodge]

Im Nezarec actually

gimmie my hat back

[chrome fog]

Undisclosed child of Cayde before he was rezzed as a Guardian; also serves as an imaginary figure alongside supposedly Cayde’s wife (derived from a picture from a journal Cayde found on his personal) that motivated Cayde to do the right thing

[vital lodge]

how would Cayde remember then

wait

can Exos have their memory restored after being revived

[chrome fog]

Journal on his person

No

Well

Eh

[vital lodge]

what if theres a backup data bank

they are robots

[chrome fog]

Deep Stone Crypt

The

[vital lodge]

wat

[chrome fog]

They’re more so humans in a fully prosthetic body, their consciousness transferred into purified radiolaria - now called alkahest in this form free from Vex influence

[vital lodge]

but they can be rebooted

[chrome fog]

In Beyond Light you go find the mindscan back ups of all Exos. You fight the technocrat right before the area where they’re stored

[vital lodge]

NLA vibes

[chrome fog]

There’s a scannable where Ghost ponders such, but he rightfully concludes that they will not be the same individual that we knew as a Guardian, much less who they were after the transition into Exo form. Uploading the mindscan will simply have the Exo act as they were at the time they were… mindscanned

[vital lodge]

so all Exo data is stored in a giant computer?

[jagged badge]

A very old and worn database

[vital lodge]

we moved Clovis into a new body didnt we?

[jagged badge]

Due to the stress of the Vex-Exo war and time and the elements

[jagged badge]

Not exactly

We partitioned a version of a Clovis AI into the Exo frame

But he also still existed back on Europa in his big head

He also isn’t an Exomind

Well, there is a Clovis Exomind but the AI we speak to isn’t him

[vital lodge]

so when an Exo dies, is the data in the big computer erased

[jagged badge]

Nope

[vital lodge]

so they can be given another body?

[jagged badge]

This is how the Exos cheated death in the Vex-Exo war

[jagged badge]

Yeah. So long as the scan is preserved

[vital lodge]

Wheres Caydes scan.

[jagged badge]

Probably long gone

[vital lodge]

frig

[jagged badge]

As I said, the Vex-Exo war damaged a lot of the database

[vital lodge]

no Cayde-7 then

[jagged badge]

Not to mention time and the elements have wracked Europa since

[jagged badge]

He wouldn’t be close to the Cayde we know anyway

[chrome fog]

And to reiterate, it wouldn’t be Cayde-7 if we even did find his scan, it’d be him as Cayde-1

[jagged badge]

So what’s the point

[vital lodge]

if the Colonel accepted the new him, so would I

[jagged badge]

No?

Every time the Exos perished in the Vex-Exo war and were reuploaded into new bodies to continue the fight, their number went up

As we see with Clovis/Banshee and how high his number got

[vital lodge]

what stopped 1 exo from having multiple bodies

[chrome fog]

Yeah? Wouldn’t it be his personality and memories as he was at the time of mindscan, before first transitioning into his Exo body? Though there is the possibility that it is updated to his Cayde-6 (pre-rez) memory

[vital lodge]

the scans dont update?

[jagged badge]

I believe there was a Cloud system on Europa but that was also destroyed in the war

Lemme see if I can find the quote

[vital lodge]

so was this Exo thing

kinda like the Cloud Ark?

[jagged badge]

No

"You should know, strong as you are, this is likely suicide. The Vex truly have disrupted the Cloud Memory Collection system, so your memory banks are no longer transmitting data moment to moment. Anyone who dies out there will be rebuilt here from their previous imprint."

[chrome fog]

Also I swear there was something you can scan in Eternity which tells you literally why it’s not a great idea to bring back Cayde-6 via reuploadig his mindscan

[chrome fog]

Exos were Clovis Bray’s attempt at achieving functional immortality - which the Witness helped lead him towards, masquerading as Clarity - and originally he planned for them to be fully mechanical, not requiring humanisms to function. However, early testing demonstrated that the subconscious requires human sensations and the fulfillment of them in order for the human mind not to go insane and rip its Exo body apart

Calus’ dialogue introducing the Tormentors states that it was a collaboration between him and and the Witness, suggesting the Witness gave him pieces of Nezarec’s flesh to produce the Tormentors. It’s also worth noting that Nezarec’s body as shown in the Plunder ink blot cutscene is drastically different in appearance and size to Nezarec in the raid, which might further suggest that it’s one of his different bodies that he’s inhabited

[jagged badge]

They didn’t ask what Exos were

They were asking if the Cloud Memory thingy was similar to the CloudArk

[chrome fog]

Imma be real I’m reading stuff and also doing other stuff, I apologize for my lack of reading comprehension

[velvet flax]

That body shown in the cutscene is a placeholder, its quite literally Rhulk' body there. When the cutscene was made they probably hadnt made Nezarec yet

I also am not entirely sure about Osiris' theory about Tormenter origins

Since Xivu Arath has had one as a Champion for a while

[trim grotto]

Osiris: The fruits of an unholy alliance between the Witness and Calus. I fear they'll have more surprises in store.
This is the line. It's merely a theory presented by Osiris, and we've reason to believe it's not entirely accurate due to the age of some of the Tormentors.

[gilded hearth]

Is there any lore behind the naming of the weapons from kings fall like zaolis bane

[ember storm]

named after oryx’s victims

[trim grotto]

Not explicitly. The implication is that they're victims of the Hive/Oryx, though I personally still question Chelchis.

[dim minnow]

If you look into it, you can find some interesting connections like one of the guns referring to an admiral (or was it a captain) who was in the first fleet (Cassini)

[gilded hearth]

that is actually very cool

[empty fern]

Wonder if Clovis is jealous of the cloud ark

[ember storm]

he’d probably love neomuna but the moment he finds out it was founded by maya he’d blow a fuse

[empty fern]

Kek

[willow flax]

why was gahlran so big was that part of the crowns corruption

[dim minnow]

probably Hive magic doing stuff to his puppeted body

[smoky nest]

would destiny have baja blast in the world?

[trim grotto]

As far as we know, the Traveler first appeared in or after 2014. Baja Blast was released ten years prior to that.
So while it wouldn't exist today, it did technically - theoretically - exist in the past.

Why did I give that a real answer

[smoky nest]

so my guardian could sip on some baja blast after a raid

[trim grotto]

No.

It's been anywhere from centuries to thousands of years since the Golden Age which itself lasted hundreds of years after 2014. We spent those centuries to thousands of years in the Dark Age, living in villages, huts, trying to survive.

So, as I said, while it likely existed in the past, assuming a fairly 1/1 past, it wouldn't exist today, in the City Age.

[smoky nest]

damn

[lavish eagle]

What all is given about the nine

I'm curious about them

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-dust

Lavinia once wanted to know the same thing. She found out.

[lavish eagle]

Thanks

[trim grotto]

This is a fantastic read, I fully recommend the entire book. But if you just want to get to the juicy bit, keep an eye on the entries The Nine and The Witch, near the end of the book.

[lavish eagle]

The witch being savathun?

I'll read the entirety if it's that interesting

Thank you for the recommendation

[winter aspen]

what is that?

[sick yew]

Thats two mini suns

The Leviathan kinda just has those

They used to be brighter yellow but it seems overtime they burned down

[sick yew]

They just kinda chilling there

[winter aspen]

i see i see

it look so different when looking from afar tho

[sick yew]

True

[winter aspen]

Man I wish I can see leviathan close up

[trim grotto]

It's not so pretty these days.

Overgrown with Egregore, infested with Nightmares.

[sick yew]

Yeah

Tbf even when it showed up back in Red war it was probably already after its prime?

To me all the gold from back in the day kinda looked a bit worn out already

Imagine how it must have looked when it was initially build

[trim grotto]

It was originally designed as a pleasure barge, and was repurposed to become Calus's prison.

[sick yew]

Yes

[trim grotto]

Calus did redesign it once more, of course, but...

Yes, a lot of it would be quite old.

[sick yew]

Calus had probably already been actual ages on that ship by the time it reached us

So makes sense for the gold and stuff to be slightly worn out already

[winter aspen]

it still a cool design tho. i wish i can go there once

[next bobcat]

I have a theory: the Heresy episode will give us the last darkness subclass of Nightmare.

Probably complete BS but think about it for a sec

[blazing wasp]

i thought about it for a sec, and conclude its still bs

[trim grotto]

If Episodes function similarly to Seasons, then they're temporary and will be removed.

Thus, it could never hold a subclass.

[next bobcat]

I think it would be cool to revisit the leviathan and fight the nightmare of calus

In heresy

Or do you think we’ll go back into the pit?

[trim grotto]

For Heresy? The Hellmouth, perhaps. I'm sure the Episode is about Xivu Arath, after all.

[next bobcat]

Oh you’re right

What do you think revenant will be about? We’ve basically run the scorn dry at this point. Unless it’s something to do with eramis becoming a scorn somehow (revenant - stasis), I can’t see any meaningful reason for it.

[trim grotto]

Fikrul.

Crow finding Fikrul.

[next bobcat]

That seems plausible

I swear to the traveler if they actually make taniks a scorn

[sick yew]

Thatd be

Eh why not

Then he actually has run through each and every possible scenario

Unless he goes the hive god route but Eris already did that

Disciple Taniks when

[winter aspen]

taniks, the lightbearer

[next bobcat]

Nightmare of Light-kell Taniks, taken from wreckage, disciple of the witness, hive god of resurrection,

[trim grotto]

As did The Mindbender

Fun fact: None of the Scorned Barons were actually Scorn (with the half-exception of Fikrul himself)

This was, that is, until the post-campaign, wherein Elykris, the Machinist, was resurrected as a Heroic Public Event boss.

[next bobcat]

When you think about it, that’s kind of obvious. Scorn are mindless servants of their master, so If the barons were scorn they wouldn’t really be in control. Fikrul can handle it tho

[next bobcat]

He must’ve been pretty ambitious

[trim grotto]

ding ding ding
you're on the money

To be fair to the majority, however, they did look like Scorn. Bloated corrupted ether pustules and all.

[next bobcat]

Maelstronnar approval :)))

[winter aspen]

Blud died just to be resurrected as heroic public event boss

[next bobcat]

Also, what actually are servitors and why aren’t there dark ether ones?

[trim grotto]

Dark Ether is corrupted in rituals. The Scorned Barons had their collection of Servitors and harvested that Ether to then turn into Corrupted Ether.

As for what Servitors actually are... they're robots, AI, made in the image of the Traveler. They take matter and convert it into Ether, which Eliksni need to survive. Think of Ether like a combination of oxygen, water, and growth hormones.

The Servitors have varying levels of AI, from fairly basic utility robots to Pilot Servitors and Prime Servitors, which rival Archons and Kells in their position in classic House hierarchy.

Servitors have even lead Houses in times of crisis.

This pseudo religious position Servitors held is why the desecration and destruction of them by the Scorned Barons and House Salvation was so... outrageous.

[chrome fog]

Actually, the more recent dungeon - Warlord’s Ruin - hints at Fikrul planning to uplift the Scorn so they too can have minds of their own and be their own people. He sends his knights to essentially “recruit” Scorn from the corpses of all of House of Kings

[grand jungle]

was felwinter a warlord?

[winter aspen]

Yes

Wait

[blazing wasp]

No

Iron lord

[winter aspen]

I think not, he is one of the founding members for iron lord

[errant olive]

But he did kill other guardians before (and maybe after?) becoming an Iron Lord, much like the warlords of the time

[blazing wasp]

Absolutely after, a lot of dead warlords

Before probably?

But I'm unsure

[errant olive]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/6-the-mountain#lord-felwinter

[jagged badge]

He was, before he became an Iron Lord iirc

[grand jungle]

Wish I could met felwinter

[burnt edge]

warlocks have his helmet

[jagged badge]

That is by far the most cursed thing you could have used as an example

[burnt edge]

LMFAOOO

I will rebuild Felwinter

[burnt edge]

Was he exo or human I forgot

[errant olive]

exo

[burnt edge]

alr

[jagged badge]

Exo, technically

He wasn’t a traditional Exomind though

He was an AI created by Rasputin, with the intention of being sent out into the world to gather data on how humanity is so Rasputin could better fit in I believe. Unfortunately, Collapse happened and he was lost

Then in the Dark Age, a Ghost raised him in the Light. Rasputin viewed this as the Traveler stealing his son in a way, which is why Felwinter was constantly a target of Rasputin

[burnt edge]

lore accurate Felwinter

[jagged badge]

In fact, luring the Iron Lords in with SIVA was primarily a way to get Felwinter’s body back

Rasputin later regretted his actions

[burnt edge]

was the Siva outbreak technically his fault in a way

bc like

Rasputin targeted him

[jagged badge]

It’s Rasputin’s fault

Rasputin used SIVA to slaughter the Iron Lords

[burnt edge]

ohhhh

[jagged badge]

Felwinter and the Iron Lords merely wanted SIVA to help rebuild the world

And then centuries later, the House of Devils were responsible for the second SIVA incident

[burnt edge]

I remember that

2016 rise of iron days

[errant olive]

what was the lore behind spire of stars? I never got to play it

[ember storm]

the siva outbreak is purely a consequence of the devil splicers

if they never ventured into the plaguelands, the replication chamber still would’ve just been sealed shut

Rasputin only used it to target felwinter because he was actively looking for it

he had no use for it otherwise

[empty fern]

I hear siva? Have an image

[ember storm]

I know this isn’t intentional at all but like

imagine if Felwinter’s body was just too deteriorated to properly rebuild so the siva started using flesh from the other bodies to make a cybernetic hybrid

[empty fern]

Grafting?

I mean, how many made it to the chamber again? 8?

[ember storm]

https://external-preview.redd.it/1EN81UqrDIRwp-ygpfBhlo6HVxlLPsrY-KbOvqwyV8E.jpg?auto=webp&s=6fff2f15643d7fecabcc31bec452bff112a5fc2f

award winning smile

[empty fern]

Masking smile

[burnt edge]

good days

[ember storm]

People talk about wearing the Uldren mask in front of crow but imagine wearing that in front of Saladin

[empty fern]

Poor salad man would be traumatized

[burnt edge]

He already is

Saladin got a whole lotta plot armor

[ember storm]

no he’d just grab you and mold your atoms to the pavement

[empty fern]

Oof

[burnt edge]

Saladin is the most depressive character in d2

imo

[ember storm]

all the titans are sad

[burnt edge]

why is that

[ember storm]

I don’t know they just are

Zavala lost his son and wife

Saint has to live with the genocide he took part in and the fact his partner is a mortal now

Shaxx has killed innocent people and never felt good about the great hunt

also the only reason he runs the crucible is because he never wants something like the great disaster to happen again, so he personally makes sure all the new lights are properly trained

[burnt edge]

interesting

[blazing wasp]

Isnt saladin a titan too?

[ember storm]

what do you think the conversation came from

[blazing wasp]

oh

[ember storm]

also no he’s not really a Titan

those didn’t exist in the dark age

he’s what they called “big people”

[blazing wasp]

well he is pretty big.

[jagged badge]

I mean, he definitely is now

[cunning stirrup]

do we have a definitive lore reason as to how/why taken goblin can provide overshields to other enemies?

the ones that make them immune

similar to servitors

[empty fern]

Nope

Same with psions
(Although theories that their mind power is just that advanced)

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-goblin

Direct violence is wasteful. Your talent for construction and progress will be repurposed.

[empty fern]

Gasp

[ember storm]

all taken enemies are given their abilities to improve upon their “shapes”

each one is considered flawed by the witness so it’s upgraded

[empty fern]

Thrall and their little teleports

Acolytes and the eyes

Knight and, their eye fire?

[cunning stirrup]

what is this in reference to lore-wise

[trim grotto]

Your question

[cunning stirrup]

i'm aware

are goblins naturally talented at construction

what does it mean by "direct violence is wasteful"

[trim grotto]

Sure, they're the basic construction units of the Vex

[cunning stirrup]

their new purpose is now only as support units?

[trim grotto]

They're being repurposed, as Taken, to focus on shielding

[cunning stirrup]

[ember storm]

goblins are the most basic of vex and combat isn’t what they’re made for

instead of changing that their inherent value is just improved

[empty fern]

Wonder if harpies are ranked above or below hobgoblins

[cunning stirrup]

probably below

[empty fern]

Below or above goblin

[broken zephyr]

what’s the vex hierarchy look like?

[ember storm]

anyway just read all the taken grimoire if you’re curious

[ember storm]

there isn’t any

[empty fern]

(In terms of how important worker is, i made it up)

[ember storm]

they’re all the same individual mind uploaded in different bodies

[empty fern]

Hmm

How many toes do thrall have?

[ember storm]

three

[empty fern]

I see

Oryx has 3 and knight model has

Wait then

How many do ogres have?

[ember storm]

why are you photographing hive feet

[empty fern]

Raid shenanigans

Don’t worry about it

Ok ogres have 2

Did a thrall lose its toe in the torture to be an ogre?

[errant olive]

[eager trout]

Canonically, what is Crow doing until Final Shape is released?

[trim grotto]

Finding a way to open the way for us. "Opening the door", as it were.

[eager trout]

Would be funny if it just took him 6+ months to go through a portal.

[gentle geyser]

Tbf time doesn’t have to line up

[eager trout]

I saw someone describe Lightfall as: Infinity War but they don't give you any backstory on Thanos, they don't explain what the Infinity Stones do, and they don't show the people disappearing after Thanos does the snap.

[trim grotto]

We have backstory on the Witness now, and a loose idea of what the Veil is as we try and understand it.

[next bobcat]

Veil = winnower right?

[dim minnow]

maybe, but the whole Winnower concept is a little vague

the Traveler is unanimously agreed upon to be the Gardener however

and the Veil is the Darkness equivalent to the Traveler

[next bobcat]

Ok

[dim minnow]

so take that as you will

hmmm

you know, I just remembered an excerpt from Inspiral

[next bobcat]

Do you think there’s an ultimate vex leader?

[dim minnow]

They are domesticated things, made in a form. As soon as something is called a garden, it is shaped. The plants require the hand of a gardener, for they have become weak and dependent on tender care. They require the hand of a winnower, to cut away the dross, for they are too incapable to do it themselves. In absence of a hand, either the flowers themselves must rise up to wield the knife, or the garden will resolve to meaningless wilderness.```

[dim minnow]

ehh

Vex don't really work like that

and they aren't a Hive mind

they're like a collective who all align with each other perfectly

or something of the sort

someone put it in much better words a couple of day sago I think

[candid inlet]

maelstronnar (ID 238506376165457920)

Message Link to #📚lore-discussion
Vex function as they do because they all think the exact same way, albeit with minor variations per collective goals and paths to those goals. They're not a Hive Mind, they're just... like that.

Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from · Feb 20, 2024, 1:07 AM

[dim minnow]

courtesy of our local Maelman

[next bobcat]

Ok

[dim minnow]

back to this, I think this paired with the Witness' origins really puts things into persepctive

especially the second to last sentence of this excerpt

like it lines up with what the Witness is doing so well

this probably tells us that the Witness isn't exactly the Winnower, but it attempting to take up its mantle

[pure tree]

what purpose do Harpies serve within the vex?

[dim minnow]

hmmmm

[pure tree]

like goblins are builders and architects or smth, hobgoblins apparently serve as energy conduits, minotaurs are also builders, and hydras are like info processing nodes

[dim minnow]

Minotaurs are foundries

[pure tree]

ah

[dim minnow]

as for harpies, my guess would be surveyors

like they keep an eye on things

[pure tree]

that would make sense

they seem like perfect scouts and surveyors given their mobility

[dim minnow]

Cyclops could be a sort of sentry

[pure tree]

also, every single vex enemy we see are like, actual vex and not automated constructs built to supplement the actual vex, right?

like i found it interesting that, at least with non axis mind variants, we never see the radiolaria core inside harpies and cyclopses

[dim minnow]

in the most exact term, Vex are patterns that evolved to be housed within the Radiolaria

[pure tree]

i suppose if harpies are surveyors and cyclopses are sentries, their cores are more protected since theres more expectation for them to be shot at

[next bobcat]

We can see their core. They just hide it sometimes as to protect themselves

[pure tree]

also, are the oracles that the sol divisive manifest during season of the wish like the oracles of the Vault of Glass or are they different?

[next bobcat]

Similar

[pure tree]

cuz i feel like if they are, we should be more worried than how everyone seems to react to it, with just mild surprise

since to my knowledge, due to the Vaults design and purpose, the oracles are all powerful, only inside, but if they can be manifested outside it and still do its thing, then that sounds real bad

[next bobcat]

I wouldn’t worry too much

[pure tree]

i mean, if paracausality is the main wrench in the vex's ability to create a singular pattern throughout the universe, and they actually wield paracausality for once, that initial hurdle for wielding paracausality with proficiency without the witness suddenly gets smaller now that they know step 1

[clever nacelle]

who is omnigul?

[trim grotto]

The short version is Crota's partner and spawner of his Brood.

[next bobcat]

Now that I think about it, we’re really striving to kill the hive aren’t we

[trim grotto]

They kind of ask for it, what with their xenocidal campaign against life.

[calm granite]

Plus it's also kinda their way of life that they want us to try isn't it ?

Sword Logic would dictate that if we can then it's good news we do

[trim grotto]

pretty much

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah. Ever since the Moon, we've really fucked them up.

[winter aspen]

@trim grotto can you give me one random lore on destiny?

[trim grotto]

There exists something called The Cow Thing

[winter aspen]

Cow thing?

What is that?

[trim grotto]

It makes milk!

[winter aspen]

I mean it literally will make milk

[winter aspen]

So it just a cow?

[trim grotto]

It is installed in a ship

[winter aspen]

So brewing machine?

That's too random bruh

[trim grotto]

"Revolting, isn't it?" She smiles at Mara's bewildered horror. "You should've seen what I put in my tea when I was camping in Mongolia.```

Cow Thing™️

[winter aspen]

Never thought it will exist

[jagged badge]

Wait until you hear about doghives

[winter aspen]

A DOGHIVES??

[trim grotto]

A nice dog that's a beehive, best friend with honey

Very sweet, pet dog and enjoy hexagon texture

[winter aspen]

Hmm..

Interesting

[trim grotto]

dog pulls out honeycomb for you so you can have a treat

[winter aspen]

Does it effects anything on our lore or?

[trim grotto]

I mean... it existed? That's about it.

[winter aspen]

It not have connections with hive right?

[trim grotto]

Nah it was Golden Age
An intentional human creation

[winter aspen]

I see I see

Okay I got another question

So traveller and the veil is technically chaos and order?

[trim grotto]

Well... there are aspects of that you can attribute to them, sure.

[winter aspen]

Well, witness did said that light bring chaos and darkness is all about emotion so might be

[jagged badge]

More accurately, I’d say the Traveler brings possibility, and the Witness interprets that as chaos

[winter aspen]

Well, they don't have guidance so maybe that's the reason why

They just spoiled

[chrome fog]

They are not exactly chaos and order, in fact the two forces being different aspects of Paracausality simply means they are different ways in which to curate reality as one desires

Sometimes that means adding more into the world - a fire to warm others on a cold night, crystals to help ascend a wall; sometimes that means cutting away what isn’t desired - burning away trash or tossing it into a mini black hole

This actually might tie into what Dova mentioned earlier, that there isn’t really a Winnower, but the Witness seems intent to follow the same ideals and goal of the Winnower we are presented with; to be “flowers [who] must rise up to wield the knife” #📚lore-discussion message

This entry also corroborates with this line of thought
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mk-44-stand-asides

The Gardener is hard to bother; she is constantly amidst her weeds, kneeling in the tangent dust, gloves covered in a mix of distant soils and metallic saps. She is listening to the music of the insects amidst the flowers, the unguent as it begins to drip from the ferns, the slight scratch of the Worm beneath, and not to you, and certainly not to your cries for help.```

[eager trout]

This implies there's unintentional human creations

[jagged badge]

Of course there is

[ember storm]

penicillin

[fresh zephyr]

So can Calus come back?😭

[ember storm]

no

[empty fern]

Definitely no

[fast tapir]

hes so dead

[fresh zephyr]

😭😭😭

I miss him so much

[ember storm]

why

[umbral grove]

He gave us some cool shaders

[ember storm]

his overworked loyalists did

and they died for it

[empty fern]

Fat emperor syndrome

[chrome fog]

I mean I get Big Boy Season, but Calus is all red flags

[empty fern]

What about caitl?

[rich veldt]

just look at any big important thing discovered by accident, they werent intentionally going for that thing

[eager trout]

Creation and discovery are two different things.

[trim grotto]

Fun fact: Clovis Bray created retrograde amnesia for his Exo not as a way to combat DER (though coincidentally it did help), but because he was tired of answering their questions.

[exotic cloak]

Ghost just rebuild our bodies?

We pretty much dissapeared from existence in a lot of occasions, Ghost just do it's magic and creates flesh again?

[jagged badge]

Basically yeah

[exotic cloak]

Thanks

[paper maple]

So Dares of Eternity, what exactly is the horse?

[solar pawn]

._.

[jagged badge]

Honestly we don’t really know

[chrome fog]

Bunger, Architeto

[shadow crypt]

who is toland and his backstory

[trim grotto]

Haha Eris has got this one

Use some flair

[shadow crypt]

I seen toland around the moon

[jagged badge]

Toland, the Shattered, is a Warlock who was exiled iirc due to his obsession with the Hive. When Eriana-3 put together her fireteam intending to assassinate Crota, they chose to enlist Toland’s expertise and assistance. This went awry, as Toland merely wanted to go there so he could experience the Hive’s Deathsong. Iirc, he and his Ghost died in agony, only Toland lives on as a spirit wandering the Ascendant plane and also the moon

[jagged badge]

How’d I do

[shadow crypt]

Eriana

As I’m

in

[ember storm]

As I’m

[shadow crypt]

erianas vow?

[ember storm]

you’ll freak out once you realize what the Trials of Osiris are named after

[jagged badge]

Aye

[shadow crypt]

Wait

Trials?

Ohhh

[ember storm]

wait did you actually not know

[shadow crypt]

I’m jp

[ember storm]

ah

I actually don’t know anything about how Destiny is localized

[jagged badge]

Eriana-3 was a Warlock who was intensely motivated by vengeance as Crota had personally killed her partner, Wei Ning, in the Great Disaster

[ember storm]

the only thing I know was years ago the German version translated “The 14th Saint” so people didn’t really get the memo he was an exo

[jagged badge]

Huh

[solar pawn]

( saint - 14 ) the nuber is how many times an exo has been reset

[trim grotto]

Waltz knows that.

[ember storm]

who’s waltz

I am a new light

[solar pawn]

ooh

[trim grotto]

Hush ye, goblin

[ember storm]

where is the funny robot man I bought the game just for him

[trim grotto]

Napping

[chrome fog]

Comedy

[solar pawn]

ᐠ( ᐛ )ᐟ

[fresh zephyr]

Ok question is Asher mir dead?

[dim minnow]

—and all the stories have the same ending, shouted in a single voice, the toll of the bell that heralds the end of time—

It is as I said all along, the signal thought bitterly as it unspooled into the datastream. No one can stop it.

There is no sense in even trying.```

I'd say probably

[fresh zephyr]

Rip

[next bobcat]

whether we wanted to or not, did we step into a war with the cabal on mars?

[clever nacelle]

who is riven?

[sick yew]

An Ahamkara

Aka Wish Dragon

Also the raid boss of the Last Wish raid

[trim grotto]

Riven of a Thousand Voices! The Last Known Ahamkara, until we dealt with her.
Riven was an Ahamkara, a Wish Dragon. She belonged to Queen Mara Sov and the Awoken, and helped Mara forge the Dreaming City and many other works, like Eleusinia.
However, when Oryx, The Taken King arrived, he struck a deal with Riven, and she was Taken.
Riven's will was regained upon Oryx's death, but she was still trapped deep in the heart of the Dreaming City, corrupting it with her Taken influence. Indeed, it was partially her influence which lead to Prince Uldren's madness.

[molten lark]

How long has the traveler existed?

[blazing wasp]

Unknown, but for a very very long time

[molten lark]

When did he arrive on earth?

[blazing wasp]

She, but, a few thousand years ago I think?

We had the golden age following her arrival, which lasted for what I believe is close to a thousand years?

Then we had the collapse which ended it, and the dark ages lasting for what I believe is a similar period from then to now

Current age is the city age I believe its called

[trim grotto]

Her shell made of materials that, in theory, only existed at the dawn of the universe. As for when she arrived on Earth?
She only came to Earth specifically at the end of the Golden Age, during the Collapse. However, she arrived in the Solar System in what we would call "modern times". If the D1 opening trailer is to be believed, 2014 - though I believe it's more of a "near future" sort of deal.

At the point when Ares One met her on Mars, and saw the first rains fall, this is often considered the start of the Golden Age, which lasted for an unspecified hundreds of years.

The Collapse marked the end of the Golden Age and of the civilisation of Humanity, and led to the Dark Ages. These, too, lasted for an unspecified hundreds of years, until The Last Safe City of Earth was created, eventually leading to the City Age.

[molten lark]

You said her shell
Like a giant ghost?

[blazing wasp]

...you know that there's more shells than ghost shells right

[molten lark]

No i didn’t

[trim grotto]

Ah, not really? She did make them, but not really.

[blazing wasp]

Have you never heard of eggs

[molten lark]

I play the game for fun and am piecing the lore together

[molten lark]

Yes

I was meaning in the game

[blazing wasp]

What do you think a eggshell is then

[blazing wasp]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

That said, she does have a core of Light and is surrounded by a shell like Ghosts.

And she is connected to them

[molten lark]

I knew that
I learned that from witch queen

[proper radish]

Do the witness and nezarec got anything to Do with each other

[trim grotto]

Nezarec is a Disciple of the Witness.

[proper radish]

So then the main boss for light fall is witness?

[blazing wasp]

no

the boss of the lightfall campaign is calus, of the lightfall raid its nezarec

[proper radish]

I mean final shape

Mb

[blazing wasp]

they're the raid boss as far as we know from bungalow, yea

[proper radish]

Oh damn

[chrome fog]

Same deal as Taken King, somewhat

[ember storm]

or forsaken

[willow flax]

is there a lore reason as to why tormentors change color from red to black or is that design choice

[trim grotto]

No given reason for it, no.

[ember storm]

rule of cool reigns supreme

[wheat flower]

The plates are the central darkness clusters so when you shoot them the darkness spreads through them

Enhancing mobility and stuff like that

That's why they nove slow when the plates are unbroken

And start naruto running at you

Whej you break em

[warm gazelle]

Is there a comprehensive summary of the plot of the first Destiny game? I have absolutely no clue what any of that was about.

[blazing wasp]

not of all of it in one video or page, no, that'd take hours to go through

but we do have someone who did do coverage on all of it throughout the times

here

[warm gazelle]

It would? It barely took hours to play through.

[trim grotto]

https://www.previouslyondestiny.com/

This has the important footnotes from D1 to Season of Arrivals (directly before WQ)
It's not exactly comprehensive but it'll get you up to speed

[blazing wasp]

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[blazing wasp]

every campaign? no

and stuff happens between campaigns too

[warm gazelle]

Not every campaign. Just the main quest of the vanilla game.

[blazing wasp]

new light campaign we have right now?

its not even fully canon.

[trim grotto]

D1, Uke

[blazing wasp]

o

yea well the d1 campaign also had like

nothing

a few things that becomes important later

[ember storm]

the main quest of D1 just started out with you finding your way through a world you didn’t understand

[blazing wasp]

like the sol divisive, the exo stranger

[ember storm]

but the things that happened along the way were very impactful in the long run

[blazing wasp]

but it explains almost nothing about the important story elements at hand

[warm gazelle]

Bruh.

[blazing wasp]

tbf we've had like... let me count

[warm gazelle]

So I was supposed to be confused during it?

[trim grotto]

The key point from the vanilla campaign was us destroying the Black Heart of the Black Garden, which had a sort of stranglehold over the Traveler and prevented her from healing.
A lot of the rest of it was us defeating Fallen or Cabal threats and learning our place in this new life.

[ember storm]

The D1 vanilla campaign we got was nothing close to what it was meant to be

[blazing wasp]

..14 campaigns as of right now?

and we've had story plots outside of campaigns, such as seasons

[ember storm]

before it released bungie was acquired by activision and they basically had them axe everything down for the yearly dlc model

if you watch the original Destiny reveal trailer it’s an entirely different story but still very clearly the same game in terms of design and world

they had to rewrite literally everything

what we got was the salvaged bits of a different story

[warm gazelle]

Is there ever an explanation as to why it's just one Guardian doing everything? That part confused me too.

[ember storm]

things now have obviously evolved past that

[ember storm]

same reason as anything else honestly

We’re the one with the big resume

why is everything in half life dependent on gordon freeman?

[blazing wasp]

some of the important stuff we've done like raids are done with several people

[warm gazelle]

We do? At the beginning of Destiny 1 I thought you were brand new.

[ember storm]

because he was just there when it happened

[trim grotto]

Right place in the right time evolved into the reliable choice who gets shit done. Also, gameplay.

Other Guardians are off doing other things.

[warm gazelle]

Other things more important than healing the Traveler?

[trim grotto]

Nobody knew about the Black Heart until the Exo Stranger popped up and told us

[ember storm]

nobody else knew about destroying the black heart

the exo stranger took a gamble on a newbie and it just paid off

[blazing wasp]

i believe the exo stranger kinda knew us, as per some dialogue in beyond light

[ember storm]

from then on we just got a reputation as the reliable one

[warm gazelle]

And we just kept it a secret from everyone else when we found out.

[ember storm]

no

we were just one of many random guardians who fell to stasis

[trim grotto]

Telling the Vanguard had, in other timelines, gone awry. Corruption, destruction.

[ember storm]

zero notable achievements or qualities

[blazing wasp]

in hindsight, with how many timelines she were in...

she probably recalls most guardians

[ember storm]

Elsie is the only reason we did anything beyond killing a devil archon

[warm gazelle]

Also the Exo woman, who is she?

[trim grotto]

Elizabeth (Elsie) Bray, granddaughter of Clovis Bray I.

[blazing wasp]

elsie bray, shes trapped in a time loop, every time she or the traveler dies she's thrown back into a point in time

[ember storm]

to be clear we don’t know the specifics

her death might not be involved at all

[blazing wasp]

we dont know who or what causes the time loops

its possible its when the traveler dies, and if she dies she doesnt really... get to experience that

other possibilities also exist

[ember storm]

yeah

[blazing wasp]

we just know shes in a time loop

[ember storm]

from what we can tell it’s all about the traveler

nothing else has worked for her

[blazing wasp]

and the traveler is somehow involved in it

to what degree, how and why, we dont know

maybe we will eventually

but we've currently got more pressing matters

[warm gazelle]

FYI thus far I have played the campaign of vanilla D1, vanilla D2, Lightfall and uhhhh Witch Queen. Working through the other D2 campaigns rn.

[ember storm]

the vanilla D1 campaign was specifically designed to not stand on its own

[blazing wasp]

shadowkeep is the earliest one chronologically you have access to

[ember storm]

you can blame activision for that

everything in context makes it a lot more worthwhile though

it was basically just setting everything up

would’ve been better if it wasn’t a fully priced release, but that’s how these things go

[warm gazelle]

I kinda hated D1 ngl so I dropped it, I'm enjoying D2 much more so I'm actually sticking with it.

[ember storm]

I really can’t blame you for that one

[blazing wasp]

i would personally rate d1 as a better destiny on... almost every front

[ember storm]

I started when taken king was just releasing and the game was actually a full game

[blazing wasp]

quality of life, gameplay, variety even as a f2p, the list goes on

[warm gazelle]

D1 all the classes felt the same and the story made zero sense.

[ember storm]

you typed the wrong thing

[trim grotto]

I'd be happy to answer questions more comprehensively than I'm currently doing once I'm done with work, in... seven hours.

[warm gazelle]

I'm somewhat following along with what is even happening in D2, which is a lot more than I can say about the first one.

[blazing wasp]

oops

replace 1 with 2*

[warm gazelle]

also not all the story is being told during the loading screens

[blazing wasp]

d2 is at least more comprehensive not looking at lightfall

[ember storm]

LF is comprehensive it’s just stupid

stupidity is very comprehensive, just to a fault

[warm gazelle]

Lightfall is the part that has confused me so far.

[blazing wasp]

its comprehensive with given hindsight provided like half a fucking year later

[ember storm]

all you need to take from Lightfall is this

we discover the veil, the primordial source of darkness

the witness has its plans fully set in motion

and we have no more room for error

and Osiris is very pissy

[warm gazelle]

It's crazy to me that this franchise is a decade old and we're just now finding out what the Light and the Dark are.

[blazing wasp]

think of the universe as a pc, the witness is currently gaining access to the administrator account

[trim grotto]

The seasons help explain it a bit further.

[ember storm]

I mean we found that out about five years ago

[blazing wasp]

we've always known to a degree

as time goes on, we understand it better

[warm gazelle]

Maybe so, but it's like finding out what the Force is finally after watching Attack of the Clones ig

[ember storm]

the prequels were absolute shit at describing the force and you know it

[warm gazelle]

i mean more that they're like, fundamental to the entire plot and it took a very long time to explain what it even is. that's all

[warm gazelle]

honestly I didn't mind Osiris

He seems like the only person involved who is actually taking what's going on seriously

like the fate of humanity is at stake

which it seems to be

[ember storm]

Rohan took it seriously

he was just being realistic with his expectations

[trim grotto]

Some of the Neomuni honestly didn't understand the stakes
They saw their own city and little else

[warm gazelle]

are those guys also humans?

[ember storm]

yes

cloudstriders just have very heavy augmentation

[warm gazelle]

they just suffer from gigantism

[ember storm]

no

[warm gazelle]

ah ok

[ember storm]

specifically just cloudstriders

everyone else is just human

[warm gazelle]

and they uploaded themselves into the Matrix

[trim grotto]

Cloudstriders are the defenders of Neomuna. There are only two at a time, and they're very, very heavily augmented - so much so that they only live for ten years. Choosing to become a Cloudstrider is a sacrifice.

[ember storm]

Not quite

It’s just a temporary security measure

They’re usually just walking about like normal

[trim grotto]

As for the civilians, not quite. The CloudArk is more like... a fully immersive VR. The civilians are currently in cryo, in bunkers, for safety, while using the CloudArk to live their lives.

But they'd be perfectly fine if the CloudArk shut down

[warm gazelle]

wouldn't it be easier to just put them in cryopreservation without the whole VR aspect?

then they could just wake up when it's all over and they wouldn't have to watch their home getting invaded by evil aliens

[ember storm]

no, because they can still safely contribute to the war effort and survival of the city

putting the entire city into basic crypsleep means there’s nobody maintaining power, infrastructure, supplies, anything

the cloudstriders are the city’s guardians, not anything more

[warm gazelle]

ah ok they can still do all that stuff from their cryo VR environment? they're just also invincible

[ember storm]

that’s the idea

of course, without cloudstriders, the enemy would eventually overwhelm any automated or remote controlled defenses and breach the facilities housing all the people

it’s basically just putting all the eggs in one basket

a very highly advanced and protected basket

but if it fails everything is gone

[acoustic cedar]

I saw something about guardians who are bad guys or something called rogues?

[ember storm]

I mean there are a fair amount of Lightbearers who just don’t want to be guardians

they don’t have a name they’re just around

there was a group called the Dredgens, who idolized a guardian who fell into madness and preached about the darkness (who was also a sociopathic murderer)

he took on the name Dredgen Yor, so all his followers called themselves Dredgen [whatever]

essentially they were a bunch of edgy redditors who stanned a killer

they’re basically just gone now

[trim grotto]

Sure. They can work on the virtual CloudArk against the Vex, support the war effort through frames, organising, running protocols, reprogramming things... do some patrol missions for Quinn some time.

[ember storm]

this is all very condensed because I’m honestly just not a fan of the concept

Thorn is just kind of lame

[warm gazelle]

it's confusing bc they say the darkness isn't evil too

but like 99% of the people who use/follow/utilize it are like, psycho killers

[ember storm]

they just used it as an excuse to be shit people really

[ember storm]

no

not at all

the entire point of Beyond Light was proving darkness can be used for good just the same

and everyone using it is proving that now

in fact there was a zealous light user who murdered people using stasis just because

(also very condensed I don’t really care about Aunor)

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/1wII_KF9lRs?si=swvwwXSs-b-Uqgva

Cheeky, Quinn.

[warm gazelle]

isn't stasis darkness?

[trim grotto]

As in, she murdered people who used Stasis

[warm gazelle]

ohhhh ok

I just started Beyond Light, will finish

[trim grotto]

#📚lore-discussion message

Read from here, I explained it a few days ago. It's a bit laconic, mobile explanations are hard, but you'll get the gist.

[candid inlet]

maelstronnar (ID 238506376165457920)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
Shayura was not killing bad people. She was killing random Guardians who were using Stasis.

Command triggered by maelstronnar. Message link from · Feb 21, 2024, 1:08 AM

[jagged badge]

Nightshade? Quinn must be protecting her work from AI generators

[trim grotto]

I dun geddit

https://youtu.be/kAFBlxSrigo?si=_Sbgm2tjdmt07Brq

I love me some Quinn warcrimes

https://youtu.be/E8Fu8nMuWRc?si=GpjJU13H1XI8z1tC

Isn't she delightful

[ember storm]

Mael I have a lore vault question

is there any documentation of the new Zavala voiceover after you beat the new light quest version of disgraced

well, “new”

it definitely wasn’t there on launch

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure, but I can check.
However, I won't. Not until work is over, anyway. Browsing on mobile makes me a very sad boi and not even tea can cheer my up from that.

Remind me in... seven hours.

[ember storm]

Ok I’ll ask you about it when I go to bed so I can see it tomorrow morning

[jagged badge]

Nightshade is this new tech you can “poison” your art or other work with that fucks it up when AI tries to train off of it whilst being imperceptible to the human eye

[vital lodge]

Crow shot Cayde in the head with Ace of Spades, why didn't Cayde explode

[chrome fog]

As Osiris outlines in Lightfall (after about two years of Bungie subtly-but-pretty-apparently redefining Darkness as not wholly corruptive, it’s solely one bad actor - the Witness - at the root of all the corruption that Darkness caused) Light and Darkness are not inherently Good and Bad, they are sides to a fundamental force of the Destiny universe, of Paracausality, which affect different aspects of reality; specifically Light has more focus on the physical and Darkness has more focus on the mental

[chrome fog]

Perk wasn’t activated

[vital lodge]

Ah right I forgot Cayde didn't die instantly

[warm gazelle]

yeah it's just wild to me that we're STILL learning what the Light and Darkness are

in a decade-old franchise where those are like two of the core concepts of the whole thing

[chrome fog]

Time has been longer in-universe

And shifts in paradigms are often how you expand the world so it is no longer restricted by what was conventional before

Hell, in-universe the Light has been abused centuries before we even got Stasis

[warm gazelle]

tbh seems more overly convoluted and blatantly retcon-y than anything else

[chrome fog]

Anything and everything is a retcon so long as you’re cynical enough to not recognize the opportunity to explore new possibilities opened by the revelation

And also, what if they had leaned fully into Darkness being a purely evil force? What does that mean for Lightbearers who abuse the Light? Could the Darkness then be wielded justifiably?

It makes more narrative sense that Darkness and Light are detached from any moralistic value

Because redemption arcs and slow realizations that the power you wield needs to be used responsibly instead of abused

[warm gazelle]

it's just pure coincidence that our protagonists and the point of view from which the story is told has come from Light wielders, who are usually fighting dark wielders

[chrome fog]

The Cabal, the Eliksni, and the Vex do not use Darkness a majority of the time

Which is like, almost all the factions

[trim grotto]

That's pretty much it. Our personal experience had always been a one sided battle. The Black Fleet destroyed humanity's civilisation, and the Eliksni's too. Both of us saw Darkness as evil.

[chrome fog]

But also yes, it’s important that it’s Lightbearers, Risen coincidentally chosen by Ghosts from the Traveler, are able to have the privilege to have an insight into the true dynamics of Paracausality

[trim grotto]

But, the Witness and the Black Fleet don't represent all of Darkness, as we now know. We didn't have any true opportunities to learn of Darkness in such an intimate way before, even if it wasn't stigmatised.

[warm gazelle]

why does it say the darkness is encroaching when we fight all of them though? that happens all the time

[chrome fog]

Because die is bad and gameplay mechanics do not translate wholly into lore; champions, for example, are non-canonical save for one bounty

[trim grotto]

Depends on the context. At early point in time, "Darkness" was far more nebulous and often just referred to enemies of humanity, despite the inaccuracy.

[warm gazelle]

yeah i'm like 97% sure that throughout my entire time playing D1, all of those guys were referred to as Darkness

[trim grotto]

Just a product of the time and ignorance
Don't look too much into that

[chrome fog]

Adding to this, the developing nuance to which we regard the other species occupying the Solar System means we know better now, and that informs us better on what the Darkness is; which you pointed out can feel retconny, but also why the heck would the factions not using any sort of space magic be lumped in with the evil bug wizards?

[warm gazelle]

i can't tell what is supposed to be taken as canon. did any of Destiny 1 happen?

[chrome fog]

And Darkness being a word which directly parallels to Light, the magic we use, would suggest that there’s an opposing spectrum of said magic

[chrome fog]

All of the games and expansions happened

You just skipped a handful of expansions to D1

[trim grotto]

I didn't say it wasn't canon. I said it was a product of the time and of ignorance. I meant in universe.

Humanity was, until very recently, very ignorant.

[chrome fog]

See: Season of the Splicer, Season of the Chosen

[warm gazelle]

so this is like a marvel universe where everything happens in like a few years' time, and before then practically nothing did

[chrome fog]

I

[warm gazelle]

They had a phrase for it

[chrome fog]

Y’know. Fictional worlds would need a world built up for them to be interesting. Which would entail a history. Which entails stuff happening the years prior to the currently viewed years.

[trim grotto]

We didn't understand the Light, the Dark, didn't know the Black Fleet existed, didn't know of these alien species, or anything. We never had a chance to learn. We were stuck in pure survival in the Dark Ages for centuries, and the Golden Age never lasted long enough to progress our understanding that far.

The arrival of the Eliksni in the Dark Age was our first hint that the Traveler had visited other species

[warm gazelle]

A sliding timescale, I think it's called.

[trim grotto]

Other than Clovis, the Golden Age didn't even know that Darkness existed

[chrome fog]

A couple centuries worth, it is at least a millennia since the current day when our Guardian is rezzed

[chrome fog]

And this would be the wrong application of the sliding timescale, as everything happens in the game in real time, save for some months skipped in Red War

Your guardian is 10 years since being risen in D1 give a couple months

The timeframe events happen in don’t shift around much save for that one time skip in Red War

But in expanding the character stories and the world of Destiny, we’ve had revelations on characters who have been around since the Collapse, and some remnants of the Golden Age like Elsie Bray

[warm gazelle]

Okay, I think I understand now.

[chrome fog]

Which would fit better into the definition of retcon, but moreso it’s just information we never knew about the world revealed to us finally

[warm gazelle]

We're in our early modern period after a lengthy dark age.

With somehow, even more wars.

[chrome fog]

We are millennia into the future, way past the modern day

[trim grotto]

Essentially. And even then, the Last City isn't exactly lavish with luxury.

We're scarred from wars, have crumbled and abandoned distrincts

[warm gazelle]

Was not being literal.

[chrome fog]

My bad

[trim grotto]

I can go into more detail on any topic of your choice if you remind me in... 5 hours

I'll be home, finished work, and at my computer then

Not tapping at a cracked mobile screen at work

[warm gazelle]

Cool, I'll go back to playing Beyond Light.

[chrome fog]

But even so, the City Age has lasted a while too; Eris Morn was rezzed from the body of a citizen of the Last City, and she participated in the Hellmouth Disaster at least a century ago in which she lost her ghost

I hate Apple autocorrect, it’s so fickle

[trim grotto]

Centuries, plural

[chrome fog]

Neato; but also yeah further elaboration of how large the timescale is

Not to mention the indefinite amount of time the Golden Age lasted

[tawdry mauve]

if we took the time that passed from the time destiny 2 to takes place to today, and we go backwards

i think we would go way past the first human civilizations on earth

[warm gazelle]

The Exo Stranger says that my time in the pyramid proves that I'm capable of controlling the Darkness. What pyramid is she talking about?

[shadow warren]

The one on Europa id assume

Pyramid as in pyramid ship

[trim grotto]

Depends on the context of the quote, but I imagine she's referring to the giant one on the horizon of Europa.

Or, the one from Shadowkeep

Which very strongly contextualises the story, as its the beginning point of the modern saga

[warm gazelle]

I hadn't been to a pyramid on Europa yet, nor have I done Shadowkeep.

I did enter a Pyramid in The Witch Queen though.

Also, Strand is Darkness, right? I'd guess using that is proof I can control it.

[jagged badge]

Doesn’t matter if you haven’t done Shadowkeep, that’s what it’s referring to because you’re still ultimately playing as the Young Wolf

[jagged badge]

Yeah it’s the Lunar Pyramid

Oh wait, which Pyramid do you go into at the end of Arrivals?

[trim grotto]

The one above the Cradle of Io

[trim grotto]

Yes, but that's irrelevant. The stories happened in specific orders, and you doing them out of order does not elicit different dialogue. The order is specifically Shadowkeep, Beyond Light, Witch Queen, then Lightfall.

Beyond Light was the first time we dared to use Darkness. It was still outlawed by the Vanguard at the time.

It was a very big deal.

We'd dabbled in it before in shady, illegal manners - crafting Malfeasance and Thorn with Drifter's help, not to mention Gambit as a whole - but wielding it? That was new.

[trim grotto]

I'm assuming it refers to you using the Ziggurat at a teleporter to the interior of the Europan Pyramid. But, again, depends on the context and situation of the line.

[warm gazelle]

That's a shame. Would be cool if dialogue changed based on our actions thus far.

[trim grotto]

It cannot. Beyond Light canonically happened years ago. The progression of story is linear and requires the prior events to contextualise the modern ones.

[warm gazelle]

Hm. The game doesn't give you a chronological order of the content that I could find. There's just a bunch of planets with missions on it.

[trim grotto]

There's a timeline in the top right of the Destinations.

For example, Shadowkeep was the very first time we'd seen a Pyramid in person. Only those who had done the Invitations of the Nine even knew what they were. The sight of it was a shock, a sign of things to come. It laid the foundations for the story to progress into the modern story arc.

If the player has not done the Invitations of the Nine

Ghost: What… is that? I've never seen anything like it. This must be what Eris was after.

// OPTIONAL

If the player has done the Invitations of the Nine

Ghost: That's… one of those Pyramids. It can't be. That should not be here. Eris must have gone inside.```

Your story progression has been incredibly out of order, I'm afraid.

[jagged badge]

It’s at the start of the campaign when Elsie first gives you the Splinter iirc. Before you enter the Ziggurat even. I’d wager it’s definitely referring to our resilience in either the Lunar Pyramid or whatever happened in Arrivals

[trim grotto]

For some further info, the Seasonal content of the year follows a linear story from Lightfall, too. Defiance and Lightfall are largely simultaneous, while Deep, Witch, and Wish, all happen one after another

[trim grotto]

Probably. Do you have the direct quote?

[jagged badge]

https://youtu.be/djpiYgj_QSw?si=lmbnf5qTT2IURpE0

2:08

[trim grotto]

I'm going to go ahead and say that'd be referring to Season of Arrivals then, yeah

[warm gazelle]

woops

wrong chat lol

What is Season of Arrivals?

[dim minnow]

season of Arrivals was the last season of Year 3 (and the last season before Beyond Light's release)

basically, the Black Fleet finally arrived in the Sol System

and we have been recieving messages from them

however, Nokris, who was under Savathun's command, was interfering with the messages

[warm gazelle]

Savathun is the Hive lady who could control the Light, right?

[jagged badge]

Not at that time

[trim grotto]

Only after Season of the Lost, directly before Witch Queen. Prior to that, she was a billion year old Hive god, and one of the original three Proto-Hive/Krill siblings who made pacts with the Worm Gods to become the Hive we know today.

[warm gazelle]

That is quite the career change. Not even sure that's a lateral move.

[trim grotto]

It is once you understand more about the Worm hunger.

Hive Parasite Worms consume the ontological concept of death. You slaughter, they feast. It's a literal manifestation of their beloved Sword Logic, which dictates that they should test their metaphorical blade upon the universe. If they kill, the universe is stronger, more efficient, more well maintained for it. If they die, they weren't strong enough, and deserved to die.

The problem, other than the intergalactic xenocidal wholesale slaughter of life, is that the Worm hunger is as exponential as its power.

The stronger you become, the more the Worm must feast. If you cannot keep up with it, or go against your nature, it consumes you.

Savathûn was not so zealously obsessed with the Sword Logic as her siblings Oryx and Xivu Arath, and had been trying to defy the Worm hunger for years.

[warm gazelle]

And that's why the Hive came to Sol? To kill everyone there and feed the worm?

[trim grotto]

That, and the Traveler was here.

It's existence, and that of Guardians, is heretical to the highest degree.

I'll get to that shortly.

[trim grotto]

She tried time loops, she redefined the Hunger of the Worm to feed upon lies and trickery and deciept, she even defied the Black Fleet (whom the Hive are allied with) and was branded a heretic.
In the end, she sought aid from Queen Mara Sov and the Techeuns, who preformed an exorcism in Savathûn during Season of the Lost. Her Worm was removed, Savathûn was rendered mortal... and then she died.

In a gamble of very, very long odds, she was resurrected by Immaru, her Ghost. She was taught by her Hive who she used to be (as newly Risen Lightbearers have no memory), used the Wellspring to stabilise the collapsing Throne World (which was created by the power of the Worm), and then you meet her in Witch Queen.

She is free from the Worm hunger. Free from that endless debt of slaughter and lies.

Of course, she's still Hive. She isn't a "good guy". But her story could go anywhere, now.

[warm gazelle]

Well, I'll give credit. That's more of a character arc than I expected from... anyone, in this game.

[trim grotto]

Destiny has ten years of lore, and it runs very, very deep. I've been learning it and teaching it for years, and there is still more I don't know.

[chrome fog]

Man, wait til you hear about Osiris

[jagged badge]

Drifter has a nice arc

[warm gazelle]

Osiris is the dude that Savathun was pretending to be right? He was also in Destiny 1.

[trim grotto]

He was only sort of in D1. A recording.

The first time we actually met him was in Curse of Osiris, D2

[warm gazelle]

right I remember Trials of Osiris.

[trim grotto]

Ironically, not hosted or created by Osiris.

[chrome fog]

His lover, Saint-14 also has a pretty storied past

[jagged badge]

Different VA back then right?

[trim grotto]

Rather, the Followers of Osiris, those weird cultists, originally founded it.

[trim grotto]

Correct

[jagged badge]

Iirc he sounded kinda meh

Especially compared to Oded Fehr

[trim grotto]

Alright I've got to get back to work
Ping me for queries and I'll get back to you

[jagged badge]

I love Oded’s voice

[trim grotto]

Ciao ciao

[warm gazelle]

aight ty

[chrome fog]

We even have characters who have persistent stories despite not really appearing in-game

[warm gazelle]

I had that dude's helmet in D1 IIRC

[chrome fog]

And you can get his helmet in D2 as well, he’s a pretty significant Titan

In fact, the first Titan Vanguard before Zavala

[warm gazelle]

does he mind that you stole his helmet

[chrome fog]

It’s probably a replica, like Thorn

[chrome fog]

He left his seat to pursue Osiris in the Infinite Forest

[warm gazelle]

wait I vaguely remember this

[chrome fog]

It was the first expansion for D2

Kinda

[warm gazelle]

he was killed by the Vex?

[chrome fog]

But also probably hinted in D1, and then concluded in uuuhhh

Season of Dawn

Another season during the release year of Shadowkeep? I believe so, yes

That season is where we learn his fate, having died in his pursuit of Osiris, being defeated after the Vex created a unit specifically to steal his Light (though purportedly, he still slaughtered a great number of Vex after being drained of his Light)

We bring him back via enacting the Perfect Paradox; the Infinite Forest supposedly allows insight into alternate timelines, and we go in and save a younger Saint, as well as freeing his Light from the unit holding it captive

[trim grotto]

Try it on while next to him in the Tower. He finds it delightful, asks if you two can play a trick on Zavala.

It's a replica, not actually his.

Probably made by... what're they called...

Order of the... Lost Saint?

Yes, that's the name.

[jagged badge]

That’s a thing?

[chrome fog]

Man, wonder if they ever discussed about having pseudo-religious groups founded after them

[trim grotto]

Oh, aye.

[chrome fog]

Gl for the next 2 hours, Mael

[trim grotto]

No luck needed
I'm basically already finished
Just tidying up and cleaning

Can't leave early though

[chrome fog]

Yea

[trim grotto]

Kinda wrecked my back yesterday rushing to move some floor tiles though
Good god they're heavy buggers

Hi ricey

[chrome fog]

hola rice

[cosmic raven]

is there a lore reason for why some enemies have immune shields and take 0 damage? why dont all enemies have these?

[shadow crypt]

Bro there’s not a lore reason for everything

[cosmic raven]

☠️ well thats why im asking

[trim grotto]

That pretty significantly depends on the context.

What are you referring to?

[cosmic raven]

sometimes youll come across enemies with those cylindrical shields that just say immune, i know sometimes they are tied to boxes that will break the shield but there are cases where they just walk around with immune shields

[trim grotto]

What I meant is, which enemies in which context do you refer to, specifically?

I know about immune shields.

[cosmic raven]

wyverns

[trim grotto]

In which context?

Whether there is a lore reason or not, or what that reason may be, depends on the actual scenario itself.

[cosmic raven]

the final wish mission, after you take riven's tooth a immune wyvern spawns and sorta follows you

[trim grotto]

To be honest, I don't recall any immune Wyverns there. But it's been a few months.

Shields like that are usually difficult or bulky. Many have specific weaknesses such as external power sources, often seen with the Vex. Shields like that are generally only used in game context rather than lore context, though Shields do exist in lore. Some can be explained, but it varies case by case.

[shadow crypt]

oh these

It’s just for gameplay purposes probably

It’s meant to be like that as the current objective is to apparently run

[cosmic raven]

yes that guy exactly lol

[shadow crypt]

or something like that

[cosmic raven]

makes sense yeah

[ember storm]

to be fair, vex have employed indestructible shields before, in an old Nessus mission

they proved ineffective since they had an easily accessible external power source, though

it’s not uncommon for vex to reuse old tactics, but they largely never do because if something fails once, they figure it’s a loose end since they act on pure logic

[ember storm]

also

[trim grotto]

You got me
Let me shower and become cleansed and I'll get right on it

[ember storm]

I await your answer in eight hours

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/18aEVLgXfPU?si=1KYxRRZWd8LdfWK-
https://youtu.be/kpgzN5yL5Bc?si=PdWrkc2-cP3I5cEC

Do you mean the difference between these two

[fresh zephyr]

Sorta curious when guardians are making their own fate against atheon are we just rewriting time? I’ve never really understood that doesn’t atheon just know what’s gonna happen

[trim grotto]

It's more that we're defying Atheon's (and the Oracles) attempt to erase us from time

[heady gyro]

Do rifts and wells affect non guardians?

[dim minnow]

through the power of the Aegis which allows us to utilize the Light's ability to force an ontological effect within the vault, essentially overwriting the Vex's control over their domain

[smoky rose]

In the SWARM’s lore tab (iirc), it’s noted that Shaw Han gives radiant to a bunch of red jacks

So presumably? At least the damage buff side of it

[sick yew]

I mean why wouldnt it

[full zephyr]

how was dune 2 btw

[sick yew]

Ask me again on the 10th of March

[full zephyr]

oh ok on the 10th of march

gotcha

[warm gazelle]

Is it ever explained why the game is called Destiny?

[blazing wasp]

Well there's a lot of stuff how we "make our own fate" with space magic and stuff

Not something important

[warm gazelle]

Destiny 2 should've been called Destiny's Child.

[blazing wasp]

We've got nothing to do with destiny save for flipping it off once in a while

Destinys child makes no sense

[warm gazelle]

just a dumb joke

[blazing wasp]

Oh

[sick yew]

[trim grotto]

It's never explicitly stated. We know Well of Radiance can keep folks warm, and as Discus said, Radiant can, and frankly I see no reason why it wouldn't.

I don't know how effective it'd be, or whether you'd have, like, Doctor Warlocks, though.

[sick yew]

Make a quick buck healing people in the last city with your magical powers

[trim grotto]

Warlock Gangs shooting people and demanding payment to fix it

[sick yew]

And if they dont pay you just freeze them with Stasis and walk away

Tbh you could make a fortune selling organs as a guardian

Cause you just res up afterwards

Ez money

[trim grotto]

Actually!

I have a sort of answer for this!

It's very gross and it comes from Drifter (because of course it does)

(You can't, if you're askin'.)``` - The Drifter, 2020.11.10

[sick yew]

Soo im right?

This reads weird

[trim grotto]

The bit where he says "you can't" suggests to me as if you cannot simply... trim parts infinitely.

I would assume the parts disappear, at a guess.

[sick yew]

So if a guardians leg gets blown off thats gone forever

That doesnt make much sense

[trim grotto]

What

No that's

alex please

[sick yew]

[trim grotto]

Ol' Drifter chops a toe off
Ghost grows a new one
Old toe goes poof

I assume, anyway

[sick yew]

Then the question has changed

Where do Drifters severed toes go

[trim grotto]

i

[sick yew]

Is there a pocket dimension full of them?

[trim grotto]

"Drifter's Toe Vault"

you make me hate lore sometimes Alex

[sick yew]

[sick yew]

The key to defeating the Witness

[heady gyro]

The fact you call em by name suggests he's infamous enough to be some kinda cursed lore haggler

[trim grotto]

Well I'm not going to call him "Ask me how Dune 2 was 🛡️ "

[heady gyro]

Well call him dune, sounds cool

[trim grotto]

Nah I'll stick with Alex
We've known eachother a while

[sick yew]

Yeah my curren nick is just an inside joke

Call me Alex

[sick yew]

My profile is a bit misleading ive been here longer than 2022

[blazing wasp]

Same

I've rejoined as a bit twice