#📚lore-discussion

1 messages ¡ Page 70 of 1

empty fern
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Hmmmmm

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What about the subjugators then?

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All lean no fat?

ember storm
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we haven’t fought them yet

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tbd

inner mauve
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so does nezzys body in the raid resemble his body before he died or did he just steal a tormentor corpse

ember storm
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tormentors are thought to be genetically engineered clones based on his dna

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also Nezarec’s head is basically the only thing from his original body

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the traveler’s omega light beam it tried using against the witness granted life and a new body to Nez when it was hit in the crossfire

inner mauve
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and is it just a coincidence that his species kind of looks like rhulks if he skipped leg day

ember storm
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their body and limbs are completely different

empty fern
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Wait so

ember storm
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the mistake people make is thinking that black fleet uniforms are their bodies themselves

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they’re not

empty fern
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It was coincidence that nezzys remains were on the ship that was hit by the beam?

inner mauve
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so the red is just a uniform

ember storm
empty fern
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Damn

ember storm
empty fern
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Little baby man

inner mauve
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i also thought so because they both have 6 eyes

ember storm
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anyway remember the witness tried collecting Nezarec’s body parts but failed

inner mauve
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or at least i think those are his eyes

ember storm
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nezarec has like 8

empty fern
ember storm
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Rhulk is lubraen and killed every other member of his race along with his entire planet

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he’s the only one

inner mauve
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and what about them both turning grey during damage

empty fern
inner mauve
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and the similar weak spots

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is it just black fleet armor malfunction

ember storm
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although the new subjugators seem to be copied from Rhulk like the tormentors are with nezzy

empty fern
inner mauve
ember storm
empty fern
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We shot the red away

inner mauve
empty fern
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We shot the red away CATGRIN

ember storm
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ok yeah so basically what i said this morning

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you see those blackish root things in those two, Calus, and tormentors when you kill them

empty fern
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And the bombs?

ember storm
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i surmise it to be some kind of augmentation that the witness gave them to improve performance

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it flares up when they’re really in for it but when you kill them it just spills all out and dies

empty fern
ember storm
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no that was just a joke

inner mauve
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ahh

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so i assume that calus doesnt have the red armor because hes too flamboyant for it

empty fern
ember storm
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I mean beyond chugging a bunch of psion wine Calus has literally no physical capabilities

empty fern
empty fern
ember storm
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so I imagine the witness gave him a hefty boost

ember storm
# empty fern

you know that it’s referencing the black heart right

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same texture and color

empty fern
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Where

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Oh

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Ehhhhh

inner mauve
empty fern
ember storm
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you can just do the entire fight without strand

inner mauve
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the entire story

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osiris was yapping about how we must train strand

empty fern
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Cheap tricks by calus

inner mauve
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in order to defeat calus

ember storm
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I mean we did need strand to get there

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there were the totems draining our other powers and the shields

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but Calus never thought to try using those in his actual fight so

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rip bozo

empty fern
inner mauve
empty fern
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How are mindless legion smarter than calus

inner mauve
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why did killing calus require much effort at all

empty fern
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And also massive ship

ember storm
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he’s a disciple

inner mauve
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in comparison to nezzy and rhulk

empty fern
inner mauve
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who are surely stronger

ember storm
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which is why it took 6 guardians to kill them

inner mauve
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i mean im not sure about nerfed nezarec but surely rhulk

ember storm
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as opposed to 1-3

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for Calus

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he was still a threat

inner mauve
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still doesnt sit right with me

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calus being strong

empty fern
ember storm
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guardians just unanimously agree that any team above 6 is doomed to die

empty fern
ember storm
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the witness is strong

empty fern
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He made witness angy

ember storm
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that’s the only reason he was a threat

inner mauve
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true

inner mauve
empty fern
ember storm
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no it’s lore

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that was the entire point of the great disaster

inner mauve
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as in theres no activities with more than 6 people

ember storm
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and also Savathun’s song but nobody cares about that one

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guardians will definitely get in each others way and you run the risk of losing tons of guardians in one operation

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fireteams are 6 max

empty fern
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Oh yea, guardians can actually be greedy and stuff, and warlords

ember storm
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it’s not about being greedy

empty fern
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No?

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Damn

ember storm
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it’s literally just being worse at everything because there’s like 15 other people trying to do their own things

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it doesn’t work

empty fern
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I see

ember storm
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imagine trying to do dps with a rocket with a line of people in front of you

empty fern
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Well

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Well saw how that went during the 12 man raids CATGRIN

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Was was the great hunt before or after the great disaster

ember storm
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why do you ask

inner mauve
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what is the great hunt

empty fern
ember storm
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at least multiple

empty fern
chrome fog
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Holy shit I was exaggerating because it felt like it’s been 5 times, nice

chrome fog
outer dragon
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And Germaine saying he found one

ember storm
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his name is The

desert tree
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so, I finished watching the D1 Expansions, and I have some questions:

  1. YW Kills Oryx in Campaign in D1, so why in D2 does YW Kills Oryx in Raid in Giant Form
  2. Who is Eris referring to as "Queen" in the end of "The Taken King"?
  3. Variks was an "Advisor" or something in D1, so why was he a Prisoner until he busted out in D2 Forsaken?
  4. Where did Mara Sov go after Oryx rocked her shit?
  5. Where exactly on Earth is the Last City Located?
dim minnow
# desert tree so, I finished watching the D1 Expansions, and I have some questions: 1. YW Kill...
  1. VoG, CE, and KF all canonically happened during D1, their appearance in D2 is not canon.
  2. Most likely Mara Sov
  3. Variks was not a prisoner but instead was the warden for the Prison of Elders. He oversaw its operation until the start of Forsaken when multiple factors made him question what he was doing. So he decided to leave, but not before starting the riot that we had to stop. He then attempted to rally all Fallen under him as the new Kell of Kells, but eventually decided to join Eramis instead (at least until Eramis went crazy at the start of Beyond Light).
  4. She went into the Ascendant Plane (specifically Eleusinia, her THrone World). Part of her plan to steal a good portion of Oryx's power once we killed him.
  5. This is a debated topic. Most agreed upon area is somewhere in South America near Chile.
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oh hey Eris, I have a suggestion for your "is this weapon canonically unique" document

jagged badge
empty fern
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Take himself moment

dim minnow
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since the NTTE in d1 is not the same NTTE as the one in d2

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the NTTE in d1 is the one based on Delilah's timeline analysis while the one in D2 is based on Novarro's timeline analysis

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and I believe both should be marked as unique

empty fern
dim minnow
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since D1 NTTE belonged to Praedyth

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and D2 NTTE belonged to Elsie

jagged badge
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I’m ngl I haven’t looked at the document in ages and I didn’t write most of it 😅

dim minnow
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I also think the Stranger's Rifle is one of the versions of NTTE

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well Maelman told me to refer this suggestion to you

empty fern
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Oh speaking of mael

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I should join that server

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@trim grotto

chrome fog
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It’s the server link url but with TheCryptarchy afterward

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discord .gg/TheCryptarchy

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Remove the space between discord and the period

empty fern
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Yea

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But I got a dm inv and was too lazy to search for the dm

blazing wasp
chrome fog
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When you get there Nexus, give Sars my regards

empty fern
jagged badge
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Probably some rando there I dunno

fast tapir
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blue again? real

jagged badge
devout nimbus
next bobcat
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Is 1 million deaths canon?

dim minnow
empty fern
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Crotas moon incident CATGRIN

idle raptor
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so, is xivu cowering away after we untethered her throne world?

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have not seen a single thing about her recently

dim minnow
fresh zephyr
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well that's disappointing

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I wanted xivu to roll up and start bodying guardians left and right

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not get cyber bullied and immediately go into hiding

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When oryx showed up, we actually felt that

lost abyss
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I imagine she will at some point, just not immediately after losing virtual immortality, which makes sense imo

dim minnow
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then Deep and Witch started showing us the facade

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she is emotionally dependent on the Sword Logic

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Eris Morn screwing her over likely gave her great emotional damage

lost abyss
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Yeah, her entire view is being shaken

fresh zephyr
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yeah but remember how oryx and the taken were introduced as the current threat?

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xivu, so far, just exists in the background. not really having done anything

rich veldt
fresh zephyr
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see how it just feels and plays like we're actually getting invaded

rich veldt
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a main part of xivus strength is her armies, and her armies take alot of time and effort to move

fresh zephyr
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so ive heard

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with her phenomenal voice acting, i just want more of the character

rich veldt
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she will definatley be back

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shes still alive so she is still dangerous

next bobcat
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But she’s vulnerable now, so she might just keep throwing wrathborn at us until we die

fresh zephyr
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can we skip the middleman and just kill us right now

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much more satisfying experiencing our imminent doom rather than hearing about how it could've been

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via helm hologram, like the last couple times

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talk to Eris at the farm hologram.
okay, done.
next step, talk to Eris at the helm hologram

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earth is now saved from extinction. good job guardian.

wtf. No please come back - me

chrome fog
# fresh zephyr so ive heard

So she’s bragged about. The main threat of Seraph was that in using the Warsats, it would provide her enough tithe to open her Throneworld above the Last City and essentially rain down all her forces; now that she’s lost access to that very Throneworld, that’s one less tool in her arsenal

next bobcat
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Osiris made the multiplex PvP map using his knowledge from breakneck. Change my mind.

little gorge
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not the main one that the witness is, but still

steady nest
fresh zephyr
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on paper, sure

steady nest
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the vex are mostly seen as a thing that exists and never is a big threat

fresh zephyr
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i meant xivu

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but yeah vex are just kinda there

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like all those trees no one knows who planted and have just always existed

steady nest
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honestly i just hope at lest the Sol appear inside the final shape

fresh zephyr
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they wrote themselves into a corner with the vex. how do you make people care about a faction/game characters that were written to be unfeeling robots without character

chrome fog
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Easy: suggest emergent personality within the collective consciousness of the Vex as a result of consistent exposure to Darkness via the Black Heart, inadvertently modifying their thought structure to be less literal simulations and begin to grasp symbolic and figurative thinking

full zephyr
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Does anyone have any lore on the xenophage guy? I think he was one of eris’s fireteam members and got turned into a bug

fresh zephyr
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the grave mind

trim grotto
fresh zephyr
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swap out the floods biomass infection with robots and shit and it's the vex

full zephyr
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oh boy

fresh zephyr
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vex need the grave mind and it's golden

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it might be what's her face

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the sadistic one that went cray cray with the veil

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and I mean, if you've played halo 3

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"Do not be afraid. I am peace; I am salvation." - grave mind

chrome fog
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That’s similar to theories on what the Helen Lords are

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Which, considering the unique Vex frame for one of the upcoming Episodes, perhaps we’ll get to meet them as a threat and see if they’ll present the Vex as a genuine threat outside of a natural disaster given life

jagged badge
fresh zephyr
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what's it called when the antagonist has the god, savior "complex" bullshit. Like how Thanos was

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Rejoice inferior creatures, I'm here to save you, from yourselves hurrdurr

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but they say it all hella cool

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Hopefully whatever character they do, does that

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Hilariously enough, originally the Forerunners were some unknown, ancient, mysterious alien race.

jagged badge
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Microsoft didn’t like that

fresh zephyr
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Then bungo reconned it to be, actually something something ancient humans

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just like the vex might be possible be just a bunch of random ass humans

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oh yeah, they created a completely separate ancient alien faction for the humans

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of course the humans are the dumbasses that caused to flood to exist

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find some old, funny looking crushed up alien and their solution is to shoot it up, apparently

still bay
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If oryx is dead how come the taken still exist?

blazing wasp
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He just learned to make and control taken

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He didn't invent the ability to take

ember storm
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hello hello

pseudo turtle
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I'm surprised this channel even exists aside from witch queen

chrome fog
chrome fog
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Vex are entirely different, however; they do have the Precusor vibe in that lore surrounding their origins purports them to have entered this universe from a previous one, but that's not entirely confirmable as that's reliant on information we gather from Unveiling, which we know to be a questionable source since it's directly from the Witness

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However, the Vex's goal of total assimilation for study seems to follow with their alternative way of thinking, in that they repeat scenarios to deduce the most likely outcome - There's a lore tab somewhere that features a simulated Cayde-6 that exemplifies how it is to be in a Vex simulation as well as how paracausality inherently breaks conventional causality

rich veldt
winter aspen
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Does anyone who the fireteam that go slashed during lightfall by witness is?

empty fern
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Just one of these ships, whoever was in them

winter aspen
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Yes. And who are those guys?

empty fern
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Don’t know CATGRIN

chrome fog
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We know that one of them was Reed-7, the exo Titan that was a part of Shayura and Aisha's fireteam; the other two were also present in that scene

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Unfortunately, Reed's ghost was out in the cockpit with him, and ended up sliced as well, making it his Final Death. Aisha and Shaura had theirs in their "Backpack" space, meaning they survived

empty fern
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F

chrome fog
winter aspen
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Lmao

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So it is not the fireteam from d1 right?

chrome fog
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Perhaps, perhaps not

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Well actually yeah, since Reed was an Exo, but I remember that leading up to Lightfall's release, people were able to track that the D1 team and Shayura's fireteam have worked together, most notably in the Curse of Osiris cutscene where they confront Vex forces and Osiris kinda stops time for a bit

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Too lazy to find it myself and they're probably buried under other posts a year after Lightfall's release, but there's probably some twitter or tumblr post on them

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Plus that sliced-up Titan in the Lightfall opening cutscene was probably Reed as well as wearing D1 armor

winter aspen
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I see

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Btw I read about shayura's match

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Does she still hate Aisha for using stasis?

chrome fog
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It's been a while since then, about however long it's been since Beyond Light's release

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She went on a zealous Guardian slaughter for anyone using Stasis, then got caught and jailed. Thankfully, though the petitioning of Reed-7 and Aisha, she was able to be let out on occassion for rehab, her ideals on Darkness and Light bend more to conventional opinion (Darkness aight, it not wholly evil, just another tool).

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Then Reed died

winter aspen
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Thanks for the clear, I really appreciate that

tropic arch
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Is there any weapons warlocks have made?

trim grotto
# full zephyr oh boy

I may have fallen asleep instead
But um
Remind me in... 9 hours and I'll get back to you

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Haha sorry

full zephyr
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ok lol

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it was half an hour later and I thought “man, this guy must be making alot of tea”

next bobcat
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What is Rasmussen, meyrin, and satou?

chrome fog
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Black Armory houses; families who helmed the weapons manufacturer

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Ada-1 was the daughter of the Meyrin house

next bobcat
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Nice

empty fern
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Unknown creatures?

next bobcat
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So from what I’m getting, meyrin created Le monarque (French), Rasmussen created jotunn (Nordic) and satou created izanagi’s burden (Japanese/asian)

empty fern
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Ye

next bobcat
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Unknown creatures? What do you mean

empty fern
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2 died from unknown creatures and one died later from injuries

next bobcat
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Hive or fallen presumably

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Probably fallen, since the connections between SotP raid and fallen

empty fern
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Maybe

chrome fog
# empty fern Unknown creatures?

Considering it's description within said lore tab describes it with a "wet earth smell", it's something Hive, most likely an Ogre that broke into their last bunker

ember storm
chrome fog
ember storm
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kell's scourge stealing their gear is the first and only time it happened

next bobcat
ember storm
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izanagi is basically the japanese God, so

trim grotto
next bobcat
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Interesting

shadow crypt
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What is the sword logic?

dim minnow
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most simple explanation

empty fern
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Yay

shadow crypt
trim grotto
# shadow crypt Wow

It's a combination of a philosophy and lifestyle and a paracausal framework of power. Dedicate your existence to slaughter and death and "sharpening the universe against your blade", and as you kill, you grow in power.
In the case of the Hive, this is catalysed by the Parasite Hive Worms. One does not simply grow in power as they kill without such a catalyst.

empty fern
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Shhhh

shadow crypt
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Ah alright

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Ty

chrome fog
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A big aspect of paracausality is mentality reflecting the change caused to reality; Ahamkara and the gap between reality-as-is and reality-as-desired, Worms accumulating ascendent energy as their host changes reality to be the way they desire coupled with the belief that you kill others to prove you deserve to live more than the one you killed

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The worms part is more an inference, but it matches with what we've seen with the ahamkara and the philosophy of the Sword Logic

next bobcat
#

Please explain Omar agah and xenophage

kindred scarab
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Hi also what is vex milk?

full zephyr
grizzled zinc
grizzled zinc
kindred scarab
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Uhmm

analog inlet
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i know how we will defeat the witness spoiler alert
prenerf unsunsetted recluse and mountain top CATGRIN

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im slowly going insane

trim grotto
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https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/omar-agah
Firstly, Ishtar has a character overview of Omar which you may find handy. Feel free to peruse.
Omar Agah was one of the first members of the Hellmouth Fireteam that Eriana-3 recruited in her revenge against Crota, Son of Oryx, after Crota killed Eriana's partner, Wei Ning, in the Great Disaster.
Eriana-3 had spoken to Eris, and together they set about recruiting other Guardians to assault Crota's Throne World, accessible from deep in the Hellmouth. Eriana-3, Eris Morn, Omar Agah, Vell Tarlow, Toland The Shattered, and Sai Mota.

Omar Agah — Category — Ishtar Collective

A Hunter who was a member of the first Crota fireteam. He was killed by the Heart of Crota.

#

Omar himself suffered a terrible fate.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/heart-of-crota#omar-agah

Heart of Crota — Grimoire Card — Ishtar Collective

“It’s not the first and surely is not the last. But until the last Heart stops, their hate will spread endlessly across the black."
Eris: Record this.
The Heart of Crota.
It is her blood that feeds their fury.
I thought Omar dead until I heard his screams. I followed them down, to the darkest night of the caverns below. What I saw—I witnessed al...

# 

Among a sea of cocoons, and surrounded by thousands more freshly spawned hordes, the Heart held Omar’s broken body in a vice of bone and pain. She was peeling the Light from his body. How? I can’t imagine, and I have tried. Tendrils of luminance tore away like flesh.

With every strand Omar’s scream cut the dark and was met with a chittering chorus from the unborn. I can’t say if they were feeding off the Light itself, or the pain, but my guess is both—somehow, both.

The Heart, though I can’t believe she actually has one, seemed to be conducting some nightmare orchestra, nurturing Crota’s children, with the echoes of Agah’s Light.```
#

But, in Omar's own words...
...the idiots screwed up. They didn't just drain my Light. They took the whole lot. The entire thing. Soul and all. I'm still me. I'm just not the me I knew. The one with two arms and two legs. I'm something smaller now.

#

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/xenophage#omar-agah
Now Omar's rage powers Xenophage. When you reload, you can even see him.

960x0.png
Xenophage — Entry — Ishtar Collective

This might sting a little.
—
There was only darkness… until there was Light. Again. A third time.
I knew it. Knew I'd be back one day—only this time, I was something else. Something… not Human. Not by choice, of course. Those damn Hive. They weren't just tryin' to kill me. They were using me to get to my Light. To drain it from my soul. For thei...

trim grotto
# kindred scarab Hi also what is vex milk?

Vex Milk! Also known as Vex Mindfluid, or Radiolaria(n Fluid).
It is the substrate which contains the microscopic actual radiolaria that is the Vex. Think of them as microscopic organisms suspended in slime that powers a mech.

kindred scarab
#

Guys I think in the final shape the player guardian will die cos in the trailer ghost says "so I'm asking you one last time to rise!" Soooooo... ye

trim grotto
#

Have you considered that we have confirmed gameplay after the events of the campaign? And also that the idea that we die makes no sense from a gameplay perspective?

kindred scarab
#

Ik

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But like

trim grotto
# 

Chemically, the Vex milk is an alkaline solution of dense salts in water. The salts range from sodium and calcium to lead and even (in barely detectable amounts) plutonium. Not good to drink.

Suspended in this solution are cells in solicoid structure, 100-200 micrometers in size. Their shapes are heterogenous but always geometric, reminiscent of Earth’s radiolarian protozoa. Many have needle-like pseudopods, which transform between stiff spines and motile whips on the basis of some piezoelectric response. Imaging of internal structure detects a nucleus, and a genetic molecule analogous to SNA (though i speculate read-write times are much faster, on the order of milliseconds, perhaps exploiting some quantum effect).```
This is Clovis Bray's examination of Vex Milk on a chemical scale
blazing wasp
trim grotto
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The milk is highly dangerous. Anything it touches can be shocked, or painfully begin to be aggressively converted into Vex material, even into an entire Vex Chassis itself

trim grotto
blazing wasp
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Because that'd make enough plot holes to put swis cheese to shame

trim grotto
#

They haven't teased our death. It's just a cool statement since this is the end of an era.

winter aspen
ember storm
kindred scarab
ember storm
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guardians dont need to drink to survive

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also it doesnt burn you it just transforms you into vex on a molecular level

chrome fog
chrome fog
chrome fog
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Mornin’ lorechat

ember storm
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i mean like maybe we get a cutscene death where it's meant to be a "how are we supposed to beat this" type thing like in warmind

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but actually killing off the guardian won't happen

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and i really dont think the trailer is alluding to either

chrome fog
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“One last time” has been used so many times in media for just, the final push towards total victory, and considering the miracles the YW has pulled, it doesn’t seem likely they’ll die a Final Death in FS

ember storm
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one last job, guardian

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and we'll also call you up for 3 other last jobs over the course of the year

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and probably another dlc after that

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but o0ne last job trust me

kindred scarab
#

U guys are so smart at destiny fr haliLORE

jagged badge
#

Or am I

somber lynx
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so this is how the speaker "Died" by falling to the ground?

TheSpeakerInfobox.webp
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there has got to be more to his story... or was the writing just that bad?

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Why does the Witness hate the Traveler so much? Daddy issues? 😆

jagged badge
#

On top of being a pretty old dude

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He was dead before he hit the ground really

somber lynx
#

wasnt he a guardian though? i thought he had the light

jagged badge
#

Nope. Regular human

jagged badge
# somber lynx Why does the Witness hate the Traveler so much? Daddy issues? 😆

The Traveler blessed the Witness’ species, however as a silent god, they hated that it didn’t seem to give them any direction and purpose. When they started to believe that the Traveler’s Light could lead to destruction, they sought the Veil to use its power to “winnow the garden”. The Traveler fled when they tried to use the Veil on it to achieve their Final Shape

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So their species fused into one being to hunt it down eternally

somber lynx
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whats this Veil thing i still dont udnerstand what it is yet..maybe i havnt got to that part yet im only about 40% done Last Light.

jagged badge
#

Osiris even suggests a theory they could actually be two halves of what was once whole, though iirc he isn’t massively convinced by that theory

somber lynx
#

like YinYang

jagged badge
#

Perhaps, yeah

somber lynx
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ok cool thanks

#

Has Bungie made any new Lore books yet? like from Dark Horse or anything?

chrome fog
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Doesn't Consul go over and snap his shit or am I misremembering

trim grotto
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We never actually saw him die

meager belfry
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I thought he just fell

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Mask fell off and everything

trim grotto
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The Consul just released his bonds
He fell
Done

blazing wasp
#

Killed by the architects

jagged badge
chrome fog
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Ok yeah that was my brain doing an oopsie

chrome fog
chrome fog
jagged badge
#

Cayde is 6?? I thought he was a lot older than that

fast tapir
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honestly

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crazy to think about

trim grotto
somber lynx
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and whats collectors edition lore?

empty fern
tawdry mauve
# somber lynx oh ok cool. thanks. They have comics for this game? i ddint know that? when did ...

https://bungiestore.com/destiny-comic-collection-volume-one

Destiny Comic Collection, Volume One

The Destiny Comic Collection Vol. One is an essential collection of comic stories for Destiny fans. This 144 page volume includes Bungie's comic collection plus never before seen stories, behind the scenes galleries, and exclusive content from featured artists!
From Osiris’s exile to Ana Bray’s homecoming on Mars, uncover the legends behind Des...

trim grotto
somber lynx
somber lynx
trim grotto
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CE lore? You don't unlock them in game. They're physical.

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We have transcripts and scans for online perusal.

somber lynx
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oh ok. cool. is there a site other than the wiki sites that has a colleciton of all the lore?

trim grotto
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The primary option for that is the Ishtar Collective

empty fern
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Fandom and that

trim grotto
somber lynx
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okay great

trim grotto
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Ishtar has nearly everything except for the CE physical lore

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But we do have other sources for those specific items

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95% of what you need, Ishtar has, however.

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They also don't have much physical dialogue, except for mostly older mission transcripts. Forsaken and prior, in particular.
Idles and voice lines and transcripts can often be found in the Destiny Lore Vault.

empty fern
trim grotto
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If you're after anything in particular, we can help. I am pretty good at finding sources.

trim grotto
empty fern
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Yea, I’ll inherit his will OHyeSs

trim grotto
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Who's Will

empty fern
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The smugglers

trim grotto
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Why are you inheriting Will

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Poor Will

empty fern
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Because

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Spores from dreadnaught

jagged badge
chrome fog
winter aspen
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Rice angey

shadow warren
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Rice mayo and ketchup is absurd

winter aspen
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Maybe mustard will make it work?

outer dragon
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You a Hufflepuff?

empty fern
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What the bell is a hufflepuff

outer dragon
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Duh

empty fern
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I see

trim grotto
next bobcat
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As a slytherin main I see this as an absolute win

arctic iron
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if youre a hufflepuff

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my condolences

chrome fog
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Hogwarts is an oppressive institution, better find some magic that can get them out of this lawsuit

shadow warren
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Reject hogwarts
Embrace mogwarts

winter aspen
steady nest
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if you are inside a vex simulation could you not simply try to find a guardian to find out if you are inside a vex simulation

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since vex can not simulate guardians well

winter aspen
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What are in the odds a guardian will show up on vex simulation?

steady nest
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but since vex can not simulate you could use that to find out maybe

winter aspen
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If you are lucky like ashermere I think

steady nest
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The Ishtar team did the same

winter aspen
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But seem like odds is quite low

steady nest
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They just contacted rasputin instead

winter aspen
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Well, I'm not a good about this thing so let's just wait for other people to answer it

trim grotto
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They have sort of simulated Guardians before, in a... recording of sorts. The Curse of Osiris opening cutscene is an example of this.

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But, yes, that would be a good way to stress test a simulation, in theory.

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Unfortunately the Rasputin theory likely only worked on the small scale of the single Vex unit
Against a Collective even Big Red would likely be lost/consumed/simulated.

chrome fog
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I was gonna say, they would to some extent be able to affect the usage of Light, making it look like they used Solar/Void/Arc since Light elements are just reproductions of those elements outside of the proper settings necessary for them to naturally occur

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Like, a Guardian can just make fire appear, the Vex are doing a hyper-advanced way of setting up a little flamethrower in the palm of their hand, they're pulling off parlor tricks with the same effect as our magic but through mega-science

coral kiln
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Vex are confused over us that can make fire appear, while they quite literally appeared out of nowhere and are infinitely warping more of themselves into existence

jagged badge
ember storm
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essentially vex know that magic comes from our fingertips and can try all they want to discern and copy the process, but they can’t

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all they can do is watch it beat them over and over

coral kiln
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That makes sense, since its violating thermodynamics and all that

ember storm
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the best they’ve done is reverse engineer a veil copy (heavily flawed and only possible because they were given another source of darkness)

coral kiln
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But they can time travel

ember storm
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there was also the vex mind built specifically to drain saint’s unique frequency of light, which took years to design and he still ended up killing it

coral kiln
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I really like when sci-fi goes off the rails like this though

ember storm
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destiny definitely has more fantasy elements than your average space game

coral kiln
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Like trying to see which version of Goku can beat Madara

ember storm
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I only wish they went full throttle and added the giant frogs and the little green goblin men that controlled them

coral kiln
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TFS, they brought the moth people

chrome fog
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Randomly assorted bug people, that be the Hive yes

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The frogs woulda been cool though

coral kiln
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No no, they werent like that. not really

ember storm
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they half assed fallen being insect people when hive already filled that role

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should’ve gone with crab fallen instead

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it’d fit the seafaring pirate theming more too

coral kiln
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They made Savathun very obvious moth-y

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hive never had that before

ember storm
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Oryx also has moth patterns on his wings

coral kiln
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now

ember storm
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and yknow they all have giant nests with egg sacs and webbing everywhere

coral kiln
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but when seeing oryx first time, no one though "damn hes hella moth"

ember storm
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or silk or clearly

ember storm
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he’s a bug person with moth wings

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what else is there to see

coral kiln
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not the hundreds of people i played and spoke with when i played

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nor all the lore posts

ember storm
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you religiously ask every player you encounter about the moth people concept art?

dim minnow
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Oryx's wings look more bat-like though

coral kiln
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literally, never even seen the word moth. people even asked, when they were coming after ttk

ember storm
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the shape isn’t what matters

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I mean

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A little bit

coral kiln
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youll find several make it with witch queen tho

dim minnow
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keep in mind that this was Oryx's original raid design

Fa6ealRUYAAcgpn.png
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Comparing them you can definitely see a massive difference in their wings

IMG_8761.jpg IMG_8762.jpg
dim minnow
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a design so fire that it was photoshopped on a night wolf shirt and a heavy metal fan van

jagged badge
dim minnow
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hold on, lemme pull up the best official concept art Bungie has ever made

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ember storm
chrome fog
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I’m certain I saw that circulating as a Lucent Oryx edit. Especially with how edited the purple glow on his wings look

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And the white chitin

dim minnow
chrome fog
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Bug wings

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Wangers

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Big flappies

coral kiln
dim minnow
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behold

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this was made by an actual Bungie 3d artist

jagged badge
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Ah hmm

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I stand corrected then, my apologies

ember storm
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I will just add that oryx forced his wings into existence through sheer will so the process probably wasn’t as clean as Savathun’s

dim minnow
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and here's the source

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start from 24:39

ember storm
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personally I always say oryx’s as torn or ripped because of this

jagged badge
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In my defence you have to admit that looks a helluva lot like what a Lucent Oryx could look like

dim minnow
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yeah, it would have been amazing if they actually went with this design

coral kiln
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Those are the coolest videos, thanks for the link

dim minnow
# dim minnow

plus I would 100% buy this shirt if Bungie decided to make it a real thing

ember storm
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it really screams “alpha wolf howling at moon” shirt

coral kiln
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Bug wings. Not specifically moth, so like i said,

dim minnow
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the texture of it

jagged badge
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Fair point

chrome fog
coral kiln
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ok you win

chrome fog
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And she's the only one really with moth wings, none of the Lucent Hive have a moth aesthetic save for the lucent moths, which are basically light infused soul thingies, like from boots of the assembler but put into a bug and also explodes and generates shields

coral kiln
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moth people

dim minnow
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I'd argue that the Lucent Brood are meant to follow the moth aesthetic

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but not other Hive

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because of the whole Light thing going on with them

chrome fog
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I mean yeah but not really, the Knights and acolytes are just darker armor and the Lightbearers don't evoke the image of a moth with their designs, though that's more-so because they're focused on effecting the image of the Guardian classes

coral kiln
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a subgroup within hive/bug group

dim minnow
chrome fog
coral kiln
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which specific bug? the moth bugs. =0

ember storm
chrome fog
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The Lucent Hive themselves don't have any livery that's moth themed, they just have. Moths

coral kiln
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que

chrome fog
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They're the same general bug look to them, no like fuzz on their armor or draped wing cloaks which mimic the patterns of moths, they just have white cloth adorning some of them and the Lucent Moths around them

ember storm
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wish they kept his purple

coral kiln
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yeah, its a bit of a theme i think

ember storm
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don’t know why he and crota got their remastered models fucked up

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atheon was a direct upgrade

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but they literally just got Crota wrong

coral kiln
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theme can be anything to any degree if its repeated

chrome fog
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Green

ember storm
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Oryx is more personal opinion but like cmon

dim minnow
ember storm
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yeah which is stupid

chrome fog
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Hehehawhaw

ember storm
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Crota’s end is when he’s at the very low end of his power

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he was barely clinging to life so he was literally a skeleton

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but no in D2 they just make him as meaty as his prime state

chrome fog
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Rip skeletron boss

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Oh yeah, huh

IMG_8764.webp IMG_8763.webp
chrome fog
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People were miffed about that when it was revealed, weren't they? I know it was pointed out near immediately

ember storm
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the head shape is literally wrong too

coral kiln
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you know how the cabal factions, literally only difference is what color their armor is

ember storm
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I mean yeah

coral kiln
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that color is their theme

ember storm
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hive armor is literally part of their skin

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and vex are just built different depending on their collective

chrome fog
coral kiln
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obviously, simple point only needs a simple example

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but anyways, speaking the vex. shouldnt having control of a taken vex give you control over the rest?

chrome fog
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We know that different factions within the same species have different colored heraldry and armor, but there's more than that to delineate who's who

coral kiln
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as theyre a collective hive mind.

ember storm
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not quite

dim minnow
ember storm
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the extent it goes is every vex Mind just inhabits the chassis of multiple units

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essentially every rank and file red bar under its command

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there are still distinct individuals among the vex

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it’s the only reason the sol divisive exists

chrome fog
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They compartamentalize to 1) achieve efficient exploration of most successful course of action to lead to their total assimilation of existence, and 2) so that the entire Vex Network gets taken down because one Goblin unit became compromised

ember storm
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the different collectives even shit talk each other

coral kiln
chrome fog
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I

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Ok

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Like, congrats on finding that out I guess

ember storm
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I don’t get it

coral kiln
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xivu shows up with a tattoo of a frog on her forehead along with her gang

chrome fog
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What was the point? In bringing up the different factions having differing colors to signify they are a different faction, of which they have beliefs that separated them from-

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What are you trying to say

coral kiln
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thats their theme

ember storm
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I think you’re confusing theming with just faction motifs

coral kiln
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youre the one that keeps disagreeing

ember storm
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red legion being red isn’t a theme

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they’re just red

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so they’re called the red legion

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there’s no distinct theme there

coral kiln
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thats it then

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is there a bare minumum or something?

ember storm
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are you upset about the moth shit or something

coral kiln
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you can tell who is and who isnt right

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and they al share that design?

ember storm
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fuck are you talking about

chrome fog
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We don't know what you're arguing about

coral kiln
chrome fog
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If this is going back to the Lucent Hive being "moth people", the fact they're named Lucent Hive has more-so to do with the stockpiles of stolen Light Savathun had accumulated which they utilize constantly, as well as continue to harvest Light from New Lights, which is itself a mission we do after Witch Queen's campaign

coral kiln
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i never said it wasnt

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so you dont even know who youre argung with, but yourself

ember storm
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let’s talk about doghives

coral kiln
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any creative expression

chrome fog
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Whatever you're arguing about, maybe read a bit more into the factions and what they're representative of, because I think this will get nowhere

coral kiln
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wonder what that means

trim grotto
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As an independent 3rd party
What the hell are any of you talking about
This is silly

dim minnow
ember storm
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their insignia is literally a moth

chrome fog
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Oh actually, what's in the WIsh missions, I haven't been able to catch up

coral kiln
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a unique design aesthetic for an enemy faction, like making them idk red? yeah its a bit of a theme

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=0

dim minnow
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as in the requirements or rewards?

chrome fog
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I believe so, the ones you get from Mara which are supposed to give more content while we wait for Final Shape

dim minnow
chrome fog
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Both? Also do they give any story stuff or is it just, go do things

dim minnow
chrome fog
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Man

dim minnow
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requirements:
week 1 - Do the core defense public event a bit and do activites in Dreamtown
week 2 - Open some ascendant chests
week 3 - Kill enemies in legend/master lost sectors

coral kiln
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wait, back to the taken vex. they get cut off from the collective, im assuming

trim grotto
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Pretty much, yes

coral kiln
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but they stay just as effective individually?

dim minnow
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each one will reward you with a token that you can use to purchase:
1 red border Last Wish weapon
1 Lightfall year exotic armor piece
1 Lost or Dawning memento
1(?) Ascendant shard or Alloy

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might be some more stuff but that's what I can remember

chrome fog
trim grotto
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And a single unit is made up of many Vex Radiolaria as it is

coral kiln
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right, so that has to mean there is a central intelligence in order for vex to function at all

trim grotto
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Well, no.

chrome fog
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It's collective. The Vex are all part of one conciousness

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Taken Vex are disconnected from that collective Vex Network

coral kiln
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but then cutting one off immediately kill it

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wouldnt it

trim grotto
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Also no

chrome fog
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... Then the entire Vex Network would collapse when one Goblin dies

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Which it doesn't

trim grotto
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Vex function as they do because they all think the exact same way, albeit with minor variations per collective goals and paths to those goals. They're not a Hive Mind, they're just... like that.

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I'll fetch you a quote

coral kiln
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but that means theres now 2 vex intelligences

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capable of being just as strong

shadow crypt
chrome fog
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Taken Vex have no will of their own

shadow crypt
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No use getting that

dim minnow
chrome fog
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That's the point of being Taken

dim minnow
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Vex are more of a collective mind from what I've seen

chrome fog
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The one who Takes you enforces their will upon you and makes you into the perfect soldier to enact their will

dim minnow
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though that didn't stop the Taken from almost taking over the Vex on Venus through the VoG

chrome fog
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The Vex Network is a collective conciousness, but they can't think in terms of symbolism they can only think in direct simulation of the situation

coral kiln
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that sounds like, just following orders

dim minnow
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Vex probably don't even qualify as sentient given how they think

chrome fog
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I dunno how to repeat this in a more understandable way, they just assimilate and study to understand

dim minnow
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they're more of a force than a species

chrome fog
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That's it

coral kiln
fresh zephyr
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Hey y’all dumb question do think we will see more of the witness race once he’s gone?

dim minnow
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but most likely no

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based on the assumption that the Witness is its entire species

trim grotto
# coral kiln but that means theres now 2 vex intelligences

Their basic cooperative signals—“food here,” “reduce density,” “generate new colony”—must have formed the basis of swarm behavior, a simple game capable of storing information in self—repeating patterns. It is not strictly correct to call the Vex a group mind. Rather they are one master pattern spread across many elements, fractally self—similar. - Clovis Bray

dim minnow
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and that there aren't any who didn't get merged

dim minnow
chrome fog
# coral kiln dont even try homie

I’m sorry the alien collective consciousness thinks in an unconventional way and therefore cannot be easily explained in conventional terms

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It’s unbelievable but it’s true

trim grotto
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Vex aren't a hive mind or a computer, per se
Inside Vex milk are radiolaria and they're the true Vex
There are thousands per unit and they each are individuals, yet often exactly the same
Vex are weird

chrome fog
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All they do is assimilate and simulate for research

fresh zephyr
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That’s what I’m curious about

dim minnow
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hmmm

coral kiln
dim minnow
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anyways, here's my favorite quotes on the Vex, it does a good job on explaining why they go about their methods

candid inletBOT
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dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion


The Vex are, so far, simply curious. But Vex curiosity always leads to Vex transformation [...]

The Vex will not rest until every star has been crushed into a black hole and every newborn cosmos filled with more Vex. And in the unending array of their enslaved cosmos, they will simulate all possible pasts, and fill those with Vex, so that all things that have ever lived or might ever live will experience infestation and consumption and torment by the silica nightmare.

And in those devoured simulations, the simulated Vex will use our flesh as hosts for yet more nested universes full of yet more nested copies of us eternally tormented by yet more Vex.

An infinite regression of pain and madness inflicted upon every possible version of us in every possible world. Not because they hate us, or fear us, or want to punish us. But because they are indifferent and curious, and they will do every possible thing to us in every possible way.```
Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from ¡
trim grotto
fresh zephyr
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I’m thinking like more generals will try to control the military of the witness and the scorn I hope will be gone after this

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But knowing my luck the scorn will be even more annoying

chrome fog
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I would like to see how in-universe the building of the Scorn as a civilization will be like

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Super existential considering they’re zombie Eliksni, but maybe there’s a happy ending there for them

coral kiln
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but to me, just off their capabilities alone, proves there would be a central intelligence to even put things together and figure how to do such things

fresh zephyr
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Scorn are the house of kings at first if I’m correct because house of kings went extinct

coral kiln
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they couldnt simply, just randomly, out of nowhere, suddenly appear one day that advanced

fresh zephyr
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And they controlled the dreadnaguht during that time

coral kiln
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theyd still be trying to figure out whats 2+2

chrome fog
trim grotto
chrome fog
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Look forward to one of the Episodes releasing after Final Shape that hopefully will elaborate

trim grotto
chrome fog
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We have Unveiling suggesting they came over from a previous universe, as well as being the natural end point of evolution in a naturally occurring universe

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However, there’s nothing really corroborating that claim, which means we cannot trust it as it’s sourced from the Witness

trim grotto
# coral kiln theyd still be trying to figure out whats 2+2

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/clovis-brays-logbook-missing-pages
Try reading this, from Note- Forge Star to Entry 10

Clovis Bray's Logbook — Missing Pages — Record — Ishtar Collective

NOTE-FORGE STAR
In an effort to keep them engaged with their new bodies and stave off the dissociative rejection that killed Mr. Zhuk, I have assigned my exos to scout through the gateway. The Vex statite has a surface area larger than Earth, so we have plenty of exploring to do. I cannot believe that I actually find it tiring, but the sheer sca...

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It's Clovis Bray's notes on their evolution and thought process

coral kiln
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"But the Vex seem to consider the tradeoff worthwhile." see like this too. why arent they just, without any thought put to it, running at us in the open, unarmored, screeching random jibberish with some random stick

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theyre smart right. that takes thinking about things

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killing one doesnt make it dumber either

chrome fog
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Because they don’t need to worry that much. One unit is inconsequential. At the very least, it can record predictive information on probable approaches enemies take against the unit which gets shared back into the collective.

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Quite literally, they follow nigh instinctual commands which have no distinct root, they’re all driven collectively to assimilate and study through simulation

trim grotto
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Osiris: Or the same ideals. This aligns with observations I've made in the Infinite Forest, where "aberrant" Vex were quarantined and destroyed. Aberrant in that they moved against a consensus. Aberrant in ideology. The Vex may seem unified, but they're divided into a number of factions.```
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This is a fairly new piece of dialogue from Seraph

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Which is interesting

trim grotto
coral kiln
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When the Vex champion in a GM begins rushing at me, it kinda feels personal

chrome fog
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Plus since it was Osiris studying them in the Infinite Forest, it’s possible this is after the fact that Paracausality had been introduced to the collective via their raid into Oryx’s Throneworld

chrome fog
trim grotto
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Well to be fair, Champions don't really exist in lore.

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There's a single piece of offhand bounty dialogue that sort of references them.

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That's literally it

coral kiln
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Thx, now i know my built up rage is justified

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Vex are still my favorite faction

dim minnow
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no moral dilemma needed

coral kiln
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Because of this, the mystery

dim minnow
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any action taken against Vex is justified just by their mere existence

trim grotto
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"Champions of what? A lofty title won't protect them from you." —Commander Zavala

chrome fog
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Well, half the mystery is why the continuous suggestion that there is a greater intelligence behind the Vex when there’s no real suggestion to that being the case even with in-universe studies on the Vex’s physical forms

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Clovis himself points out that they’re not quite a Collective Hivemind, but something adjacent

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And he was hunting them specifically for their radiolaria

trim grotto
#

Well, there are whatever the Hezen Lords are.
But yeah as far as we know there isn't a higher intelligence of Vex, per se, as opposed to key units dedicated to global organisation while other units dedicate themselves to other tasks. This doesn't, as such, mean the central unit is more intelligent.

dim minnow
trim grotto
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That'd be fantastic

dim minnow
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maybe that thing in the Echoes preview image is a Hezen Lord

coral kiln
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I mean, he could still be completely wrong since we dont everything about them, no?

trim grotto
#

I think it's Praedyth/the 227

chrome fog
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Literally we have no info, but actual in-universe studies have shown they have no conventional mind structure that is immediately comparable to ours

dim minnow
trim grotto
chrome fog
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I dunno how much more in-depth on the consciousness of the Vex one can get

coral kiln
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like, we're still trying figure them out. So they vex can still just go, "ha sike"

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so far..

trim grotto
chrome fog
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Hell, Ishtar Collective became big because they found a Vex and dissected it to study and their research made them a gigantic organization!

dim minnow
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and there are so many connections between the Vex and Unveiling that even while being allegorical, it is still probably based on what actually happened

coral kiln
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But in the end, ill take either or since its been good so far

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I just dont wanna get hurt anymore with disappointment

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Halo infinite, im still not over it

dim minnow
#

343 != Bungie

chrome fog
# coral kiln like, we're still trying figure them out. So they vex can still just go, "ha sik...

We’ve given one possible way in which the Vex could say Sike, and that has special circumstances surrounding it which draws from the fact that we have no reference for when the Hezen Lords first appeared, which means they could have appeared during or before the formation of the Black Heart, a Darkness artifact, and Darkness being of the mental domain could possibly lead to the Black Heart imparting a couple Vex units with conventional intelligence

chrome fog
coral kiln
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Wasnt there someting that also said these Vex arent "combat units" too?

chrome fog
coral kiln
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I know. I meant gaming disappointment in general

dim minnow
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the way vex percieve things is so alien to us

chrome fog
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Wasn’t it Calus mistakenly calling a Vex unit a combat unit when, no, he’s just being presumptuous?

dim minnow
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that the forces they send against us are considered gardeners/builders

chrome fog
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Which tracks with his assumption of what the Final Shape would be according to him, with “Beers of Root”

dim minnow
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You are a Hobgoblin. A particle fountain. Your first purpose is to provide energy — to channel power where it is needed for thought. Your second purpose is to eliminate threats to that thought.

You are a Minotaur. A walking foundry. Your first purpose is to think about construction — folding space and time into the design. Your second purpose is to eliminate threats to the design.
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each one of these quotes are excerpts from D1 Grimoire cards

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being for the Taken variants of these enemies

chrome fog
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Which thinking about how Radiolaria passively transform anything into more Vex, why would they need to have dedicated combat units when destroying any of their frames will consequential end up with more Vex units than before? The only time they made specialized units for combat were specifically against guardians, and more-so were parts of grander experiments to develop ontological weapons

dim minnow
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funny to think about how Goblins are builders, Hobgoblins are batteries, and Minotaurs are foundries

chrome fog
dim minnow
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unfortunately, there isn't more lore that specifies functions of specific Vex units

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unless you are referring to Minds

outer dragon
chrome fog
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Yeah, we went into that above

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I even said, we get this from the same Calus bragging about Root Beer once reality is shaped to his image even though he has no idea what the hell it is

dim minnow
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don't get me wrong, the Chronicon was sheer lunacy

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but I would rather the actual details of what he says in it be used

#

since it is just as, if not even more ludicrous, than what others say

#

Suraya Hawthorne agreed, and so the two played twenty-seven games of checkers, and listened to the music of bagpipes and synthesizers, and dined upon Earth delicacies such as nuggets of chicken and the beer of roots.

paper maple
#

I love the image of Calus eating chicken nuggets

chrome fog
#

He really be paying himself to say stuff

#

Well, more like his scribes to write down his words, but he sure loved listening to himself speak

trim grotto
# coral kiln likewise

I'll make up a full post for you with sources and references when I get home and access my computer
Discussions and sourcing are difficult on a mobile
There are some great reads that you may enjoy outside of this discussion, to boot

That way you can be fully informed on what we know and have available to us and can form your own opinion from there, backed by what we know as a group, be that as I posited or by reinforcing your theory with new info.

shadow crypt
#

What happened to Oryx’s dreadnaught?

dim minnow
#

probably in huge disrepair due to Oryx not being around to maintain it

shadow crypt
dim minnow
shadow crypt
#

On Saturn?

#

Oh ok

shadow crypt
dim minnow
#

so either she has or left it the way it is out of respect for her brother

shadow crypt
#

Are Xivu and the Witness allies?

trim grotto
#

Xivu is basically working for the Witness

dim minnow
#

though at this point the Witness' opinions toward her probably went from "useful pawn" to "useless fuck"

ember storm
#

the witness employs two types of people

#

Disciples (puppet rulers it lies to so it gets what it wants)

#

and everything else (the witness is upfront about how little it cares about you)

paper maple
somber lynx
# coral kiln Halo infinite, im still not over it

Its disgusting man. Its a travesty what Microsfot has done to Halo. John 117 deserved so much better. Halo is a dead franchise as long as 343 is making it. Just stick with MCC. Halo 4 was the true ending to Halo. It was the best send off and should have been left at that.

#

"She said that to me once, about being a machine" - John 117 https://youtu.be/C5GWELAZ-ew

YouTube
The Gent
The REAL Ending To Halo

I miss Halo.
Black Rock (jewish company), Larry Fink (jewish), ESG (jewish idea), & Diversity has DESTROYED Halo. We will NEVERRRRRR get another game like Halos before Halo 5. Halo 4 was the end of Halo for me. They will eventually kill off Chief replace him with some Spook BIPOC Woman or Trans Degenerate.
#Halo

▶ Play video
ember storm
#

not much to pick up unless you’re trying to be Toland 2 and screw your life over trying to fanboy sword logic

chrome fog
#

Geez no wonder that person isn’t in the server anymore

lavish eagle
#

What is the connection between Clovis Bray and the witness

dim minnow
lavish eagle
#

And what did witness offer him

dim minnow
#

he would eventually go to Europa where he would discover Clarity Control, a veiled lady statue, and would use it to further the creation of exos

#

basically, Clovis wanted to perfect the Exos for pride and ego

#

also to be immortal

#

and the Witness gave him the means to do so

lavish eagle
#

I see

#

Also why don't you like petra

dim minnow
candid inletBOT
#
dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

Message Link to #📚lore-discussion

  1. She was forced to work in the Last City as an Emissary as punishment for calling an airstrike that killed 3 fireteams of Guardians and their Ghosts who were fighting deeply entrenched Fallen Wolves.
  2. While in exile, she showed great disdain towards the people of the city thinking that the "don't know their place".
  3. Between Red War and Forsaken, when Cayde apprehended Fikrul and Uldren, she decided to lock Uldren up in the Prison of Elders alongside Fikrul and the other Scorn Barons and made sure only her, Cayde, and Variks were the only ones to know that the Prince was still alive.
  4. After this, she left the task of curing Uldren and Fikrul's respective conditions solely on Variks' shoulders which could be seen as one of the leading factors behind his decision to abandon the Prison starting the vents of Forsaken. Could of asked techeuns or even the Last City to help, but no, must not make her people any less happy I guess.
  5. She heavily despises Zavala even going to the point to where she fantasizes about being superior to him and mopping up his dissolved remains off of the floor. Not even joking here.
  6. I really doubt she had no idea what Uldren was planning until she failed to stop him at the EDZ. She may not have known about Riven being behind it, but she had to know that Uldren took over the Tangled Shore so he could get to the Dreaming City. Maybe the Vanguard would have gotten involved if they knew Uldren could unleash a Taken Ahamkara, and maybe the Dreaming City fisaco wouldn't have been so bad. Instead Petra kept it a secret until after Uldren was able to reach his goal.
  7. She wasn't even the one who summoned Guardians to aid the Awoken in the Dreaming City, that would be Paladin Kamala Rior.
  8. Variks questioned quite a few of Petra's decisions as acting regent, including her lack of action towards preventing the Scorned Barons from growing in power.
  9. Despite everything that has happened thus far, she has refused to change unlike Mara.
Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from ¡
lavish eagle
#

Yo I read it

#

I'm joining you in the Petra hate.

#

I'm like a changed person now

#

caydeok thanks for enlightening me

trim grotto
#

There's another

#

Gaslighting Crow about Fikrul during Warlord's Ruin
"Oh he's not back, you're seeing things, it's not like you would know, blah blah blah"

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNWSTOaVOYE


Petra Venj: Crow, you aren’t responsible for this. These Scorn didn’t come from the Reef.

The Crow: I’m not seeing things! It’s a… signature in the Dark Ether. 

Petra Venj: Fikrul has been missing from the Shore for some time. You can let this go.```
YouTube
Destiny Lore Vault
Warlord's Ruin | Dispel 2 - Bone 2: "The Knights You've Fought Are ...

The Guardian retrieves a bone of Hefnd.

**

The Crow: Wait. Guardian… the Knights you’ve fought are marked. Something we did with the Barons.

Petra Venj: Crow, you aren’t responsible for this. These Scorn didn’t come from the Reef.

The Crow: I’m not seeing things! It’s a… signature in the Dark Ether.

Petra Venj: Fikrul has been missing fro...

▶ Play video
desert tree
#

question: does the Young Wolf have a set in stone class, signature weapon, or an actual physical armor set or look?

chrome fog
#

No

#

Which is the point, so that the player can self-insert their player character as the Young Wolf

#

Theoretically, all the lore and story you play through is entirely modular and you can pick and choose the adventure you, as the Young Wolf, went on; could be a PvP sweat, Average Gambit enjoyer, Zavala’s Greatest Strike team member, or something in-between

#

But to make it less confusing and avoid pointless arguments of “Nuh-uh, they aren’t a Crucible regular, I barely play the game mode”, we assume all lore to be applicable, not handipicked for one’s enjoyment

#

Example:
Hawkmoon’s loretab has the Young Wolf, Crow, and Sav as Susiris sitting around a campfire having a gay ole time
Some players might object to this because, at the time of Hawkmoon’s addition to D2, everyone still remembered what happened to Cayde and can’t separate Crow from his past life as Uldren

#

When discussing lore, the Young Wolf very much sat down and enjoyed a night sharing a bottle with Crow, but in your own time you can head canon you just tolerated Crow enough to get the gun

#

Anyways, there’s no set loadout or class for the Guardian anywhere in lore; we have items which are canonically ours and unique to us (Hawkmoon, Last Word, Lumina, to name a few), but otherwise that’s it

torn schooner
#

I have a question about the WQ campaign storyline. I think i missed the part of the story explaining how Savathun's memories are in Sagira's shell. Isn't Sagira the ghost for Osiris?

jagged badge
#

But Savathûn took over Osiris pretty much right after Sagira’s death

#

So she would have retrieved Sagira’s shell secretly and then imprinted the memories on it

torn schooner
torn schooner
#

Is it so when she is resurrected, and her memory is erased, she has a way of restoring it ?

jagged badge
#

Precisely

torn schooner
#

got it. thx

jagged badge
#

Her plan in Witch Queen was entirely based around baiting us into retrieving her memories for her

torn schooner
#

ah ok

jagged badge
#

As a newly Risen Lightbearer, SavathĂťn could not use Darkness. But we could

#

She had to “outsource her remembering”

heady monolith
#

is xivu arath aware that we have touch of malice since it contain's oryx's heart or some part of oryx

trim grotto
#

Probably, but we can't say for sure.

#

Hardly matters, of course, he's dead either way.

heady monolith
#

i see hmmmmm

ember storm
#

there were other objects in the campaign that were imprinted on

jagged badge
#

I’m inclined to believe the objects held more memories than we got to hear tbh

#

Because SavathĂťn seemed to have restored all her memories just from what we found, no?

ember storm
#

i mean at her own leisure she could've, but she was literally just watching the altara of reflection through a big projection the whole time and then came down to kick us out when she apparently got all she needed

#

i don't see how she'd extrapolate any more info from those times than we did

jagged badge
#

I mean like, we get to hear/see a bit but SavathĂťn seeing them somehow unlocks more memories in her mind

#

I dunno how it’d work

royal gazelle
#

stupid question but

#

are the ascended only caiatl's henchmen or

#

are they actually guardians or smth

#

I've seen em in vanguard stuff and more but they are confusing

jagged badge
worldly river
#

Yeah I definitely think you're a little confused
The Cabal Ascendancy IS the proper name of Caitl's Cabal faction
Her forces are all just normal ass Cabal dudes, some of whom pop up to help us in some of our missions as NPCs since they're our allies and Bungie hasn't made functional House Light NPCs yet

tawdry mauve
#

its just that recently those 2 have become kinda synonymous

worldly river
#

I think Hawthorne is the only one who's gotten that title without being a Lightbearer

#

Maybe Amanda retroactively

royal gazelle
#

Alright. Thanks that clarified it. Thanks

next bobcat
#

My predictions for TFS seasons:
Echoes: vex on Venus (returning, maybe story missions in the vault of glass)
Revenant: scorn somewhere idk? Maybe bringing back some forsaken locations like the reef
Heresy: definitely some moon shit, I’d love to see lucent nightmares

shadow warren
#

I would love to go back to Venus

next bobcat
#

Maybe give us vex-corrupted versions of VoG weapons

ember storm
#

judging from the hint we got recently i'd bet echoes is more about the ishtar copies or more specifically maya

molten lark
#

So what is the cloud headed guy in lightfall?

#

I know he is called the witness but what does he do?

jagged badge
#

It has chased the Traveler for countless eons, and genocided most of the galaxy or fucked species up like the Hive

molten lark
#

What did it do to the hive?

jagged badge
#

It turned the species that the Hive were before into the immensely powerful death worshippers they are today

molten lark
#

Ok

#

Cool

#

Weird but cool

#

What were the hive before?

ember storm
#

to be more specific it lied to them and told them that unless they made pacts with the worm gods and denounced the light, their whole planet would be destroyed in a cataclysmic event

#

they were a short lived race called the krill

chrome fog
#

Essentially the same but without the Worms inside them

molten lark
chrome fog
#

Each having their own worm, which also allowed them to accrue Ascendent Energy

ember storm
#

they looked like softer acolytes, essentially

#

getting worms and darkness essentially mutated their species forever

jagged badge
#

The Krill had incredibly short lifespans of around 10 years

molten lark
#

What are the worm gods?

molten lark
jagged badge
#

And were constantly fighting to survive on the moon of Fundament amidst its other inhabitants

molten lark
#

Other inhabitants like the fallen?

ember storm
jagged badge
#

Ahsa, namely

ember storm
#

Fallen were completely uninvolved until the hive eventually just came to wipe out their planet, since that’s what they do

molten lark
#

Yeah

#

So the fallen were just responding to what happened to them?

ember storm
#

well they were in the midst of having their society collapse

#

the hive just came along and made it worse by committing genocide

molten lark
#

Yeah that sounds bad
So the fallen would not even be part of the game if it weren’t for the hive?

ember storm
#

the fallen were one of many civilizations visited by the traveler

#

the traveler made the choice to leave them before the witness rolled up and killed them all, having to keep chasing the traveler

#

it was during/shortly after this that the hive appeared and started killing them

molten lark
#

That makes sense
But why isnt the traveler leaving now that the witness it back?

ember storm
#

this is what the fallen call the Whirlwind and it’s what caused them to abandon their home planet and have to resort to be warlords and pirates

ember storm
#

the traveler recognized that running away wouldn’t solve anything anymore and made a definitive stand against the witness that wasn’t just fleeing

molten lark
#

Oh so we are the saving grace hoping to kill the witness

ember storm
#

not exactly

surreal atlas
#

Yo guys

ember storm
#

we embody the traveler’s ideology and will

surreal atlas
#

I need help finding the dungeon on Cosmodrone

ember storm
ember storm
molten lark
#

Yes

ember storm
#

the witness believes the opposite

molten lark
#

Got it

ember storm
#

the race it originated as decided to shape reality to its whim simply because they had the option

#

the traveler didn’t want this and kept running away, but realized there needs to be a more concrete opposition

molten lark
#

So he became that opponent?

ember storm
#

so ghosts were created who resurrected guardians, fresh slates with no prior memory or corruption but immense power

#

guardians are the traveler’s final arguments that life should just be able to exist and flourish on its own

#

the witness thinks the opposite, that all of existence needs correction into a final shape

molten lark
#

What is the final shape?

ember storm
#

depends on who you ask

#

it’s not a concrete subject

molten lark
#

Not yet?
Not till the expansion?

ember storm
#

the hive interpreted it as the one thing that proves it deserves to live over everything else, so they try killing everything they come across

ember storm
#

the concept isn’t meant to be specific

#

we just don’t know yet

molten lark
#

Oh

molten lark
ember storm
#

no

#

key word is “interpret”

#

sword logic is their religion

#

everything built upon a belief system that is designed to screw the individual over in favor of those at the top

#

it’s a literal pyramid scheme

molten lark
#

Oh man that sounds terrible

ember storm
#

they’re literally given a magic parasite at birth that’s with them their entire life

#

by killing they generate tribute and power, but without that the worm eats them from the inside

#

you’re also not allowed to keep all the power you generate, you have to give up a tax along the pipeline of leaders

molten lark
#

So they have to kill or else they die

ember storm
#

yes

molten lark
#

You said it was a pyramid scheme
Who is at the top

ember storm
#

the osmium court, the original three hive: Oryx, Savathun, and Xivu Arath

molten lark
#

Oh i have seen those names

ember storm
#

they were the ones who listened to the worm gods’ lies and went along with the pact to save fundament

#

born krill but became the first hive

#

every generation after them is born hive

molten lark
#

So are they the only surviving krill?

#

Before they were hive

ember storm
#

they’re not krill anymore

#

And I imagine some of their oldest champions are still around

#

the Leviathan Eater we fought last season was one of those

molten lark
#

I was not there for that so I wouldn’t know
I only picked it back up about 3 weeks ago

ember storm
#

big man

winter aspen
#

Where helm lore located?

molten lark
molten lark
ember storm
#

depends on what you’d call a god

#

they are indeed entities with special powers

molten lark
#

I would call the traveler a god

ember storm
#

they’re not responsible for the universe existing or anything

#

we don’t even know if the traveler is responsible for that

#

ultimately though, the worm gods are just another species that was changed by darkness

#

the previously described Ahsa is the only one who is left uncorrupted and not a ‘worm’

winter aspen
ember storm
molten lark
ember storm
#

they’re not meant to be worms

#

the darkness changed and corrupted them

ember storm
molten lark
#

Ok

ember storm
#

the witness actually tried hanging it out to us as a boon to try and convince us to abandon the traveler

winter aspen
ember storm
molten lark
#

Goodie

#

So we saw the bait and said yoink

#

Thank you for the info though
I have to go now
See ya

winter aspen
#

Is the one shayura kill is bad?

ember storm
#

could you rephrase that

winter aspen
#

Yk, shayura kill people who are using stasis

#

I'm just curious

trim grotto
#

Shayura was not killing bad people. She was killing random Guardians who were using Stasis.

#

Shayura was a member of the Praxic Order, a group of zealous Warlocks dedicated to eradicating the Darkness. In her eyes, Light was good, Dark was evil. Thus, anyone who used Dark, was evil in turn.

ember storm
#

if you’re asking whether Shayura was bad, well

#

the vanguard ruled in favor of therapy and incredibly strict boundaries when she was finally caught

trim grotto
#

She went rogue, slaughtering any Guardian who used Stasis. She was suffering from hallucinations, trauma, and rage.
What broke her, and caused her to turn herself in, was the Hive receiving the Light. She realised that the world wasn't so black and white. Light wasn't inherently good... and Dark wasn't inherently bad. And so she realised that she'd been slaughtering innocent Guardians, and turned herself in.

tawdry mauve
#

honestly idk why we wasted reed like that

#

it should have been shayura

trim grotto
#

Shayura is repenting, undergoing therapy, and in light of the universe-ending threat we face, was released under extremely strict boundaries into the care of her old Fireteam.
Shayura was one of the Guardians in the fighters flanking Amanda Holiday when they were carved apart by the Witness.

#

Shayura and Aisha's Ghosts survived, but Reed-7's did not.

trim grotto
ember storm
#

the fact that you care about them dying is exactly the reason they were killed, in order to further the arcs of the others around them

#

also side note I genuinely have no memory of anything Reed has done beyond being a fireteam member of Shayura

#

why do we care about him again?

trim grotto
#

He was, uh
A nice... guy

ember storm
#

nerd should’ve given me his armor before he died Zav

tawdry mauve
trim grotto
#

Cool helmet?

#

Had a jetpack

ember storm
#

Boba Fett looked cool as fuck and died after 10 minutes of screen time

#

Reed died in his literal second appearance

#

his first was a non speaking role for a couple seconds where it wasn’t even acknowledged to be him