📚lore-discussion

[eternal widget]

Swamp the in stuck got car Rhulk's

[willow dagger]

Is that why those bones are in the dreaming city still?

[full zephyr]

myeah

[grizzled zinc]

RHAGGHAH

[full zephyr]

m.......

........yeah

[trim grotto]

Indeed

[willow dagger]

So if she does come back her “spawn” point will be there with the bones?

[trim grotto]

uhm
i have no idea

[wheat flower]

Didn't they tell you to stop that

[eternal widget]

Just when I thought I was out they pulled me back in

[fast tapir]

true

[willow flax]

dont we have to canonically do shattered throne every like couple of weeks

to reset the curse

i heard that somewhere

[ember storm]

yeah

last year i did the math and counted it to be 84 times

keep in mind this was back in july

[rich veldt]

every 3rd week of the cycle i believe

[willow flax]

but why do we reset the curse

[jagged badge]

We don’t. The curse time loop just resets. We have to stop Dul Incaru from claiming ground in the Dreaming City and discovering Awoken secrets and shit

Unless I’m mistaken and us killing Dul is the catalyst for the reset

However, the point would stand that we have to do it

We can’t afford to let them win, but unfortunately we’re kept in the unending situation

[ember storm]

yeah that's the point

either we stop the curse by letting Dul escape with all the awoken's secrets, or we kill her and start it over again

imbaru always wins

[chrome fog]

Maybe get pulled out and stop

[analog inlet]

Question, 🙋
Were there many different versions of the traveller ? And if so, was there a creator, can i have some of yalls thoughts on this? I personally believe that there were creators of those entities and specially light and dark

thoughts?

[jagged badge]

There’s one Traveler

[analog inlet]

How

[jagged badge]

What do you mean “how”?

[analog inlet]

Werent there multiple? I mean savathun said it and sloan said something too while she was under the effect of the worn god’s zaza

I forgot what sloan said im breaking my head over it

[jagged badge]

With Savathûn she probably said it as part of her Two Truths, Two Lies thing

I have no idea what you’re referring to with Sloane but I suspect you could be mistaken

[analog inlet]

Probably yeah

So

who created the traveler than?

[jagged badge]

We don’t know there to be a creator of the Traveler. It’s just sorta there as an entity in the universe with its own thoughts, feelings and agendas

In fact, Unveiling suggests the Traveler is literally the/a creator. As in, a creation myth god responsible for the universe

Ofc, Unveiling is questionable

[analog inlet]

I just watched evazes video

Thats why im thinking too much

Rn

[analog inlet]

Thats right

[chrome fog]

Evaze has some interesting theories, but there's no real suggestion that there are multiple Travelers

[analog inlet]

Call me a fool but I disbelief it would be that simple

[analog inlet]

True

[jagged badge]

[chrome fog]

It could possible be that simple, but also it could be the Witness simplifying what it knows of the Traveler to fit its own interests; Unveiling very much has a tilt against the Traveler, painting its hopefulness as harmful naiveite, very unconvincingly so

[jagged badge]

As of rn, the earliest factual account we have of the Traveler is that it emerged from the Witness’ first victims’ homeworld

[chrome fog]

That itself is solely from Ahsa's inkblot scene

[analog inlet]

Thats what pushes me towards the side of believing that there would be a creator of the traveler

Also 1 stupid question

[jagged badge]

Does it need a creator though? It’s an immensely powerful being capable of great acts of creation and growth and such

[analog inlet]

From the final shape trailer, we grt to know traveller inside, is basically “a scenic trip of nostalgia that changes” and it’s getting corrupted chz of the witness

Sorta

But what happens if we just crack open the traveller

Is it just some physical stuff

?

[chrome fog]

That did happen, and we didn't really get a good look

[analog inlet]

It ran away multiple times whenever darkness came, how can it be a god if it cant defend itself since i assume that darkness is a force unlike the traveler darkness is meta physical, the traveler is physical

Except this time im confused cuz, it tried to fight the darkness in lightfall?

[analog inlet]

Uh

What

😭

[chrome fog]

The Traveler was shattered after Ghaul's attempt to take the Light for himself and paid the price for it, and we could see "into" the Traveler, but at best it seemed like there was more inside the Traveler than would fit into the proportions of its physical form

[jagged badge]

It doesn’t need to be good at combat and fighting to be a powerful being capable of the widespread creation we’ve seen it though

[analog inlet]

U could say that

[analog inlet]

Unveiling suggests it a god so

[chrome fog]

Season of Arrivals capped on the Traveler reforming itself, you could literally see it shattered, plus I'm saying it's "Bigger inside than it should be" as a paraphrase of a loretab

[analog inlet]

In my idea A God cant be fallen, and that a god has every solution

[jagged badge]

Because it is out of options, and because it has resolved to defend us in any way it can

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

Unveiling is not trustworthy in its entirety

[analog inlet]

Im happy that it chose to defend us

[analog inlet]

That also since its the holy book of the witness 😹😹

[chrome fog]

Technically, that would be simplifying what a God should be and how the Traveler should present itself in order to be presented as a God, which is in opposition to the Traveler's interests

[jagged badge]

Not necessarily

[analog inlet]

Yeah the unveiling did traveler dirty

[jagged badge]

Unveiling was presented to us specifically by the Witness as propaganda

[analog inlet]

But its the view of the witness

[analog inlet]

Yep

[jagged badge]

Doesn’t mean the Witness specifically believes that whole creation myth stuff

[chrome fog]

And is the Witness really someone we want to be following when it believes all life should solely be in strife, constantly warring to prove they deserve to live moreso than others

[analog inlet]

Nah

Witness is an L

I got so many questions and so little patience

😭

[chrome fog]

Precisely

[chrome fog]

Go ahead, we’re (mostly) open to questions

[ember storm]

honestly unveiling never discredits the traveler at all

it’s completely honest in terms of the traveler’s morality, it just keeps repeating that this somehow proves it’s wrong

this is why I don’t think unveiling is the witness intentionally lying, but more so just sharing what it genuinely believes to be true

both in terms of morality but also just general events

[chrome fog]

It does present the Traveler true to herself in her hopefulness, but everytime the narrator/Winnower retorts with her being blind to how things should be

[solar pawn]

i got somthing one of imaru's lines states words to the effect of that ghosts can hear the traverler and he almost excactly states " imagine you here your god but all you can hear are cries for help " so any thoughts on this

[jagged badge]

That line is interesting

[solar pawn]

very much

[jagged badge]

Immaru basically claims our Ghost was either lying to us or mistaken when he said that he believed the Traveler was gone

However if Immaru is true, that means every single Ghost of the City has been lying/mistaken about this

And I’m not sure if that would ring true?

[solar pawn]

I would like to think our ghost is mistaken but it's most likely a lie trying to hide the truth

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/porxlZQgEb4?si=LWB7DRDxX5gz1EiF

[solar pawn]

especially from the Vanguard

[jagged badge]

But like, even if our Ghost would lie to us, surely not every Ghost would?

I dunno

I’m not sure what to make of that line tbh

[solar pawn]

i hope that was true but you never know

[solar pawn]

exactly

[jagged badge]

What do you make of it?

[trim grotto]

The Ghosts don't know what's happening. Only that it's bad.

Our Ghost thought it was dead or dying. Immaru thinks it's worse.

[solar pawn]

that make sense due to the one part that says imaru does not know what's happening but can feel it in his light

[jagged badge]

Ah

Hang on lemme actually rewatch the clip

[solar pawn]

ok

[jagged badge]

It’s the line about how our Ghost is apparently “sparing us the details” I’m hung up on tbh

Because surely that would imply that every one of our Ghosts was choosing to omit this kinda important detail that the Traveler isn’t dead

And…would they?

[trim grotto]

Or Ghost didn't know better and Immaru was wrong.

[solar pawn]

maybe out of fear of what would happen among everyone if that was released as information

[jagged badge]

Ah maybe

[solar pawn]

I mean imaru's boss is savathun and she is known for lying so maybe imaru is too

[trim grotto]

Immaru is also an idiot.

[ember storm]

throughout the entire season of the witch Immaru had genuinely nothing to add beyond being the thing that brought Savathun back

[trim grotto]

So there's that

[ember storm]

None of his points were his own, he just always used Savathun’s own arguments and old recordings to say anything

[solar pawn]

yeah and also he is incredibly rude throughout Season of the Witch

[solar pawn]

yeah

[ember storm]

the only time he came up with an original thought was trying to abandon the deal when Xivu was getting close

[jagged badge]

The voice line kinda gives me the impression that he at least believes it, and not that he’s lying about it

[ember storm]

he has no faith in anything

[jagged badge]

But I’m no expert on tone

So

[ember storm]

if something goes wrong he’s the type of person to exaggerate it to the highest degree

Eris should’ve been throwing more books at him

none of this would’ve happened otherwise

[jagged badge]

You should’ve been throwing more books! You should be throwing books as I say this!

[solar pawn]

I am but as ghosts They Don't Really exaggerate that tones or really change them sometimes they do but it's kind of hard to tell with them

but for imaru it would be seen as the truth but he could be manipulating his tone

[empty fern]

Me when immaru calls something

*** 🌟 glitterbug 🌟 ***

[solar pawn]

immaru may be rude but he cool

[outer dragon]

I want an in game example of the hammer too. I want to cosplay as a Titan of the Pilgrim Guard

[outer dragon]

Cool as a stress ball maybe

Dude is lucky we tolerate his dumb ass

[jagged badge]

[solar pawn]

squeez ze immaru

[solar pawn]

pop gose the immaru

[outer dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny2the-witch-queen-hive-ghost-crush-gif-23101368

[shadow crypt]

what happened to shaxx’s horn

[jagged badge]

Twilight Gap, I think

[grand jungle]

isnt the lore behind vog like thats where the vex teloport?

[meager belfry]

Either from Ikora or from the ahamkara hunt, cant remember which

[trim grotto]

Pardon me? Vex teleport basically everywhere.

[trim grotto]

It's implied it happened during Six Fronts.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/10-war-stories

I'm impressed, Saint. How many deaths did your charge cost you?

Saint-14:
I did not die. Elriq provided wonderful cover fi—

Shaxx:
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.

Saint-14:
Is that because you died, Shaxx? I heard the Fallen broke your horn.

Shaxx:
Where did you hear that?```

[chrome fog]

To elaborate further, Vault of Glass is an ontological weapon which essentially allows the Vex to edit all reality contained within itself. As you can imagine, this was an overpowered weapon and pair that with the defense system of the Oracles, Gorgons, and the Templar who can mark you for deletion and it makes sense that previous efforts to shut down the VoG ended disasterously. By the efforts of one fireteam, we gained a tool in the form of the Aegis which assisted us immensely in destroying the VoG

[grand jungle]

oh now thats actually cool

thxs for telling

[chrome fog]

Most of the raid's loretabs explain most of what happened - if you read between the lines - and Mael can probably pull the more relevant entries in explaining what the VoG is

But he's right in that the Vex essentially teleport everywhere, like there's portals like that one on Europa but also Cayde's contribution to the Red War campaign was snagging Vex teleport tech

[errant osprey]

So I looked up that byf guy and started with his video from the beginning of destiny to shadow keep ( it’s like 4 hours long ) and I have to say this story is WILD

I’m so invested like

I thought it was gonna be something similar to Star Wars but this shit is crazy it’s way darker

Like the 3 Alien kids and what happened to them and their dad was insane to hear especially when you consider the entire circumstances this game is wayyy bigger picture

And I’m not even 30 mins in the video but soooo much has already happened like idk if spoilers are allowed but ima just say just based off the lore alone this game could be like 20 different games all together and it would still be crazy

[trim grotto]

Plus, that video is... four and a half years outdated.

[fast tapir]

yeah..

[trim grotto]

And it didn't cover everything

[errant osprey]

Wait so it’s not worth the watch? Like so much new has been added that that’s pointless? Shit I gotta find the right video then

[trim grotto]

It isn't pointless, there's just a lot more to cover now, and a solid amount of it is in time periods covered by that video.

[errant osprey]

So just to be clear

It isn’t wrong in any way is it

Like facts that’s came out later that removed the way of thinking of things then… that isn’t an issue right?

I just don’t wanna get to much miss information

I already know this is gonna be like ONE PIECE in the sense that I gotta watch days and days worth of content to get the full story I’m cool with that

[trim grotto]

There will be some things that are this way, but Destiny's got ten years of lore, and there's always more happening. Some misinfo is from old lore, some is from misinterpretations, some is just community assumptions.
But, that's why we have these sorts of channels, or communities dedicated to lore.

[errant osprey]

Ah I see

So not everything is really “known”

Going into this with that mindset is basically what I needed

I hope it gets adapted into a movie or some other form of video game dedicated to just the lore cause ima need that

[chrome fog]

And “spoilers” are fine here (subject to server rules; can’t share anything after expansion release for… a week I believe, and it’s polite to keep weekly refresh spoilered for a day or two as well though it’s not a formalized rule)

This channel’s essentially dedicated to the bits that people miss, feel free to discuss anything in the story (granted it’s not leaked nor does it break the server spoiler rules)

[errant osprey]

Weekly refresh spoilered? What did you mean by that

[chrome fog]

Y’know when the servers reset and the seasonal story updates?

[errant osprey]

Wait what

[chrome fog]

Some players won’t have had time to play on the weekly refresh, so a grace period of a day or two is given

[errant osprey]

Every week the game updates with MORE LORE?

That’s crazy

[chrome fog]

This season’s story is already completed so nothing’s being updated, and Episodes are shifting away from the Seasonal model

So unless Bungie continues the same style of content release in the Episodes system, weekly story reset its subject to change

[chrome fog]

Only for the first couple of weeks in a season

Which, there are (were) usually four seasons released each year after the Forsaken expansion release

[errant osprey]

How is it changing?

Isn’t the final shape still 4 seasons a year worth of content?

[chrome fog]

Final Shape also comes with a change in the content release system, where they are planning to release 3 "Episodes" that work functionally as miniature campaigns, though with a majority of the content of a season

Hmm, always surprises me how up to date Forbes is on gaming, one of the first results for "Destiny 2 Episodes" is their article about it

Anyways this should explain Seasons and Episodes, and how different they are and what Bungie's direction is with them
https://help.bungie.net/hc/en-us/articles/360060130092-FAQ-for-Episode-and-Season-Pass-Purchases

[errant osprey]

So last question

They say in the article things are accessible till the year ends

Do they just delete gameplay or am I misunderstanding

[trim grotto]

The expansion year. For Lightfall's seasons, 'till Final Shape drops.

Essentially, yes

[errant osprey]

Wow that sucks 😦

But it’s a great game I’m sure there’s a reason for it

Otherwise people wouldn’t play it right? Like they aren’t deleting core information or gameplay that matters to the story

[trim grotto]

The actual expansions aren't being removed - anymore - though Seasons do have their own story that ties into the main storyline. This Season, for example, was largely about figuring out how follow the Witness, and thus leads into The Final Shape DLC.

[errant osprey]

I gotta say the witness is one goofy ass looking villain, he looks straight outta fortnite lmao but again I’m sure even that design means something in this game

[worldly river]

100% it does, it's revealed in Season of the Deep that the Witness ||is an amalgamation of an entire species into one being, hence the faces in its head smoke||

[errant osprey]

Jesus fucking Christ

That’s so sad and twisted

I love it

Like just how many people or aliens are we talking about here

2, 8 billion

[dim minnow]

one species

but all of them

[errant osprey]

That’s just so insane to think about

[dim minnow]

never specified how many individual members of the species, but it was all of them

[errant osprey]

Like how does that even work

[dim minnow]

unless stated otherwise

[trim grotto]

Through willing sacrifice and the power of the Veil.

[errant osprey]

This dude is the embodiment of schizophrenia

[dim minnow]

merging minds isn't a new concept, we saw it in smaller scale

liek with the Scorn on the Glykon in PResage

or even Sloane and Ahsa

[errant osprey]

I have no idea what you’re talking about

But the idea is still so crazy

Like who the hell thought of that

[trim grotto]

Well, if you have any specific questions, we can help, at least.

[dim minnow]

apparently I heard of some thing called the Anti-Spiral

from some anime called Gurren Lagann

never watched it but apparently that entity followed a similar concept to the Witness

[errant osprey]

Any idea on why it’s called the witness

What did it witness

[dim minnow]

that part hasn't been specified yet

the Collector's Edition book for the upcoming expansion will likely give us a lot more info on the Witness' history

once people start getting it

[errant osprey]

Like just the idea of 2 people sharing one body is crazy to me but imagine a whole species like that’s your mother your father your kid your friends your strangers literally everyone you know is now sharing one body

So crazy

[dim minnow]

I'm not sure if sharing one body is accurate (maybe for the Witness?) it is moreso multiple minds being merged with one another

maybe it is something like Pacific Rim where the Jaeger pilots have their minds connected to each other

[errant osprey]

Wait what the hell happens if the witness wanted to multiply, does it do some sort of mitosis

[trim grotto]

[dim minnow]

according to Savathun, the Witness has "multiple selves"

so maybe the Witness can project copies of itself

or something

given how connected to the Darkness it is, it propably isn't even physical

at least not in a conventional sense

hmmm

though I wonder

[errant osprey]

What exactly is the darkness

Like is it the duality theory where light and dark are at war with each other

[dim minnow]

up until Lightfall, we believed that the Light referred to ideals the Traveler followed like complexity and nurturing life

while Darkness was tied to the Pyramids/Witness and its ideals of simplicity and death

but Lightfall kind of shook that duality up

the Light is not tied to the ideals of the Traveler and the Dark is not ties to the ideals of the Witness

therefore neither are inherently good nor bad

merely tools to be shaped by their wielder

[errant osprey]

Ah so it’s like matter it’s just existence itself

[dim minnow]

the Light refers to the physical domain while Darkness is the mental/concious domain

[errant osprey]

Whoa wasn’t expecting that

I get it though

[dim minnow]

to put it simply, you can't be absolutely Light nor absolutely Dark because we are all of body and mind

to be fully Light means giving up the mind

to be fully Dark means giving up the body

as the Nine stated, there is a difference, but said difference doesn't matter

which makes me wonder, if the Witness absolutely Dark?

has it given up its physical body?

or is there still part of it that is physical?

if so, then perhaps that is its weakness

[errant osprey]

What about the traveler

[dim minnow]

because no matter how hard it tries, the Witness can't escape from the Light

[errant osprey]

Same could be said there right

[dim minnow]

Traveler is a bit of an odd case there

[errant osprey]

I get it’s like a sentient planet

[dim minnow]

the Traveler is a shaper of the physical world

a terraformer

the Veil is the opposite of the Traveler

a shaper of the mind

[trim grotto]

The Traveler is a primordial embodiment of Light, like the Veil is of the Darkness. It is... unique.

[dim minnow]

but both are sentient entities

so that means they both have minds then right?

and of course they have physical forms

[errant osprey]

So what’s the opposite of the witness is there a being that’s like the embodiment of light ?

[dim minnow]

eh

us maybe

[trim grotto]

The Witness doesn't really have an opposite, unless you suggest we as Guardians are.

It isn't primordial, it isn't a law of the universe, it is... simply old.

[dim minnow]

but keep in mind that we are part Dark as well

you know, having a mind and all

I do still wonder about the Witness though

[trim grotto]

Anywho I'm off to get some dinner
Have fun

[dim minnow]

like the Witness is trying so hard to reject the Light, maybe it is trying to rid itself of it, but to do so means having no physical form

[errant osprey]

But we guardians still have our minds and on top of that we blended with the darkness not once with stasis but twice with strand I don’t think the guardian is the right opposite

[dim minnow]

maybe a thematic one

we embrace both but the Witness only embraces the Darkness

sort of a compromise vs absolute situation

[errant osprey]

That is such a brain fuck I can’t even hold you man

[dim minnow]

I'd consider it an assymetric opposite sort of deal

both sides are opposite, but not equal to one another

[errant osprey]

I meant the whole picture the whole conversation

[dim minnow]

while the relationship between Traveler and Veil is symmetric opposites

[errant osprey]

Like I am exhausted in a way trying to understand the shit I just learned

[dim minnow]

yeah, doesn't help that this is higher level lore stuff

like speculating on themes and such

[errant osprey]

I watch, ALOT of anime, well I used too for this exact reason, everything is so bigger picture for lack of better terms

[chrome fog]

For one thing, there is a lot of overlap between activities, which players already complain about how a majority of seasons borrow the “Revelry” style gameplay from Season of Opulence (not that bad of a formula, just after a large number of hours doing seasons you realize all of the base activities is just three arenas of enemy waves), for the second reason, adding all this content adds code to the game, and it’s just not feasible to hold the majority of a decade’s worth of game content without taking a massive amount of storage space. This was the original reason for sunsetting Expansion content in the release year of the Shadowkeep expansion but they’ve made steps to better optimize the game so that they shouldn’t need to put more expansion content in the vault.

Tl;dr it would bloat the game code too much, which is not great in general and can cause issues to whatever system players use

[chrome fog]

Yep, “parallel causality” aka alternate physics

Whenever you continue your jaunt into lore, we do have a bunch of sources which make it helpful to navigate all the lore

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[chrome fog]

IshtarCollective draws all available lore tabs and entries directly from the Destiny API, so if you don’t want to navigate through the lore collections menu in-game that site makes it easier to read

[abstract rover]

This may sound like a dumb question but do guardians within lore tend to master one sub class and stick to it or do they jump around trying stuff like we do?

[velvet flax]

Generally most Guardians use one subclass but some are comfortable with two. Apart from us, I don’t think there’s many at all who use 3 or more

E,g, before she lost her Light, Eris was an Arcstrider iirc, Zavala used Arc and Void and Osiris before he lost his Light, used Solar, Arc and Void

[clever nacelle]

who is MSund12?

[trim grotto]

Maya Sundaresh. One of her simulations, that is.

[clever nacelle]

and OXA/

?

[trim grotto]

Everyone can learn to use every element. Some do. But whether they use two or three, many do have their preferences.

[trim grotto]

It is, in a way, an ancient Psion prediction machine. Lost, destroyed, rebuilt, reformed, over and over.

I believe its most recent iteration may, in fact, be The Device of the Future War Cult.

[clever nacelle]

ok time for my wierdest question

why does the horse proclaim the obstacle couse as "utterly bonker"

[trim grotto]

when it comes to Dares
we pretend we do not see it

it's functionally non canon

[clever nacelle]

well that's utterly bonkers☠️

[jagged badge]

[blazing wasp]

why is it fat

[jagged badge]

[blazing wasp]

i see.

[ember storm]

it has to be this way

[jagged badge]

Standing here

I realise

[chrome fog]

Dares is the Horse (Bungie) giving the Guardians a break with a fun little game show, as in it’s an isolated fun activity that’s purposefully unimportant to the main story

Which is funny with how powerful Honse is considering it wrested control over Xur from the Nine

And also casually summoning Crota to get his ass beat every Saturday night

[dark linden]

Lore question, How are the Last Word, Lumina, Malfeasance and Thorn connected?

[tawdry mauve]

So there is actually another hand cannon you can add into that mix and thats Rose

[winter aspen]

It definitely a long lore so perhaps watch yt on it?

[tawdry mauve]

Rose, Thorn and Lumina are basically all the same hand cannon

which started off as Rose, became thorn and was then purified into Lumina

[dark linden]

Rose? The one you get from crucible?

[tawdry mauve]

yes

[dark linden]

Whoa

Any of you know a good lore video on it?

[winter aspen]

Evade have a good talk about it

[blazing wasp]

worth noting that YOUR thorn is a replica

and always has been

[winter aspen]

Or byf

[tawdry mauve]

the original thorn was turned into lumina

we never actually used the original thorn itself

due to its very corrupting nature

[dark linden]

I figured all exotics with lore were replicas

[blazing wasp]

we find the original thorn, turn it back into rose (the roses we get later are replicas), then bless it into lumina

[blazing wasp]

some exotics are replicas, some just have several of them, some are original

[tawdry mauve]

some are mass produced but some are one of a kind

[dark linden]

What about Last Word?

[tawdry mauve]

that belongs to jaren ward

the guy who kills dredgen yor

[blazing wasp]

"the man with the golden gun"

[tawdry mauve]

dredgen yor being the original owner of the rose and then thorn

[blazing wasp]

first guy who used golden gun wasnt it?

[tawdry mauve]

yes

[blazing wasp]

i thought that was shin malphur

[tawdry mauve]

Bruh

yeah my bad my bad

Shin malphur

kills dredgen yor

[winter aspen]

got killed*

[tawdry mauve]

with Jaren wards hand cannon

[dark linden]

Doesn’t Jaren die giving Shin the last word?

[tawdry mauve]

The Last Word

[winter aspen]

yes

[tawdry mauve]

yes

well no

[dark linden]

I read the “note”

[tawdry mauve]

he dies and then his ghost

gives him the hand cannon

i dont think Shin was there when Jaren died

[winter aspen]

jared have a duel with a yor thus, dying in the process like normal mentor dying to the mc enemies

[tawdry mauve]

so the interesting part about Shin malphur is that he can use the light but he technically speaking isnt a guardian

[winter aspen]

shin was close but jaren's ghost inform shin about jared's death

[tawdry mauve]

when he was a baby he died, was the rezzed by a ghost which also promptly died right after

basically shin was a lightbearer for one very short moment

[winter aspen]

did shin ever died?

[blazing wasp]

its worth noting that this is presumed

[tawdry mauve]

but he somehow kept the ability to wield the light

[tawdry mauve]

no

[blazing wasp]

heavily implied, but not confirmed

[tawdry mauve]

yes

as are most things

when the lore is this cryptic

and we also dont know how shin can keep using the light

even after he lost is ghost

they just never explained it

[blazing wasp]

"fuck you established lore, you're a blue bitch"

thats why

[dark linden]

Isn’t Drifter a no ghost lightbearer?

[tawdry mauve]

no he has a ghost

[tawdry mauve]

shin is the only anomaly

[dark linden]

What? Where?

[blazing wasp]

wdym where

[tawdry mauve]

he doesnt show it

[dark linden]

Am I blind

[blazing wasp]

ghosts can hide themselves

we havent seen his ghost

because he doesnt show it

[winter aspen]

and thus, malf was created due to shin hunting the drengen shadow, a group of lightbearer that worship the darkness. malf was created to counter shin which stated by drifter

[tawdry mauve]

Shin is currently the only lightbearer not to have a ghost

[blazing wasp]

ghosts can "demanifest"

[dark linden]

Fair

[tawdry mauve]

every other lightbearer has a ghost

and if they lose their ghost

they no longer have the light

Shin is the only known anomaly to this

for whatever fuck off reason

[dark linden]

cayde

[tawdry mauve]

well yeah

he doesnt have the light

[winter aspen]

💀

[tawdry mauve]

thats why he died

[dark linden]

[blazing wasp]

if shin is the child who died and got rez'd too, that also breaks established rules of how a guardian is made

[dark linden]

So Yor was a Titan?

[blazing wasp]

a fucking child cannot live long enough to achieve the required criteria

[tawdry mauve]

titan turned hunter

[winter aspen]

for the arguement, cayde ghost was shot that why he dont have any light afterward

[tawdry mauve]

yes

your ghost is your conduit for the light

[blazing wasp]

wouldnt have mattered since he was shot by a thorn bullet

[tawdry mauve]

without it that connection is severed

[empty fern]

What I miss

[blazing wasp]

or a "devourer round"

[jagged badge]

Wdym “turned Hunter”?

[blazing wasp]

so if cayde got hit, he'd perma die anyway

[winter aspen]

good point

[tawdry mauve]

he just ends up looking and acting more like a hunter would later down the line than a titan

[winter aspen]

lets just said, hunter is overall edgy bruh

[blazing wasp]

if they didnt have a devourer round, they wouldnt have been able to even break his ghost

as drifter points out in a lore book

scorn munitions arent strong enough to break ghosts

[dark linden]

This is a lot

[blazing wasp]

welcome to destiny lore.

its a lot of lore

[winter aspen]

go watch byf or evade for more better understanding

[blazing wasp]

take evade with a lot of salt though

[tawdry mauve]

byf still cant pronounce xivu arath

so uh

[blazing wasp]

completely disregard evade's theories

[blazing wasp]

and americans cant pronounce water whats your point

[dark linden]

So technically each of the 5 guns have lore, Rose Thorn and Lumina are the same gun, Last Word went against Thorn and Malfeasance was made by drifter to counter Last Word

[blazing wasp]

well, not the thorn we get to use

[winter aspen]

correction, to counter golden gun actually

[dark linden]

Oh?

[blazing wasp]

malf was made so if we group up and need to kill a guy, we dont gotta be accurate

[winter aspen]

there is alot of counter for last word anyway

[blazing wasp]

just gotta hit enough to proc the kaboom

[jagged badge]

Pretty sure Malf wasn’t actually made to counter Shin because Drifter was already working with Shin then

Drifter just pretended that was why he wanted it

[winter aspen]

damm, we got bambozleed by drifter

[blazing wasp]

him pretending to be against shin helped with some "getting the dredgens out of hiding" or some stuff

the reason we got a dredgen title is prob to piss off the dredgens too

[jagged badge]

I don’t have Dredgen 😔

[tawdry mauve]

Callum sol was another one right?

working with shin but pretending to be a dredgen

[jagged badge]

Yeah

[dark linden]

What’s a Dredgen?

[jagged badge]

Group of people who idolised Dredgen Yor

[tawdry mauve]

it also means "abyss"

in a direct translation

[jagged badge]

Actually secretly created by Shin so he could keep tabs on the sort of impressionable Guardians who would join it

[tawdry mauve]

and dredgen yor is "Eternal Abyss"

really edgy shit

[wooden trellis]

4yrs of D2 and im still not a Dredgen yet😂

[jagged badge]

Drifter was Dredgen Hope

Real

[dark linden]

I cannot for the life of me get 4 kills 3 times

[jagged badge]

I’m only missing one triumph from it

[tawdry mauve]

im missing 2

[wooden trellis]

Pretty easy

[tawdry mauve]

the one for banking most motes

and killing guardians in super

because nobody supers anymore when you invade

so annoying

[wooden trellis]

Nova bomb

Thats what i did

[tawdry mauve]

idk if you bothered to read the rest of my sentence

[jagged badge]

Oh my God exactly

[tawdry mauve]

but my issue isnt my lack of ability to actually kill someone in a super

[winter aspen]

people just either eyes or xeno

[tawdry mauve]

its the lack of people using their supers to begin with

[jagged badge]

That’s why I don’t have Light versus Light

[blazing wasp]

took me the longest to get light vs light too

[jagged badge]

Although tbh in my case I think I’d die to super even if someone did super

[dark linden]

Not for me teach me

[wooden trellis]

No

[blazing wasp]

become hunter, run xenophage

[dark linden]

I used Titan bubble and Xeno for the super kills

[blazing wasp]

bubble?

run tcrash or small hammer

[dark linden]

So wait is Last Word a Replica then?

[tawdry mauve]

no

Shin personally gave us his last word

in destiny 1

[dark linden]

So the one we wield is the original?

How about Lumina?

[tawdry mauve]

lumina is the original thorn turned back into rose and then "blessed" into lumina

[dark linden]

So the one we wield is original?

[tawdry mauve]

well there is no other lumina

we are the first and sole owner of it so yes

[dark linden]

Just trying to figure out what’s a Replica, what’s mass produced and what’s original

[tawdry mauve]

only one lumina exists

[dark linden]

I’m assuming Malfeasance is produced?

[tawdry mauve]

i think so

[dark linden]

So if I got it all correct
Rose and Thorn are replicas
Last word and Lumina are originals
And Malfeasance is produced

[tawdry mauve]

last word is not one of a kind weapon

well there is only one named the last word

but the design itself is most likely been mass produced by tex mechanica

we dont know but since they are firearm designers it would be stupid for them to only ever produce 1 working copy of it

[dark linden]

Yeah fair but since we own the original Last word owned by J and Shin

Which is why I put it in the original list

[jagged badge]

That being said, we know DMT to be a unique commission piece

[tawdry mauve]

well yeah but i think if its not mentioned to be a 1 of a kind like with dmt

its safe to say multiple copies exist

at the very least

even if they are rare

chances are the last word was also extensively modified by jaren

so it might not even resemble the original hand cannon it was

[dark linden]

Dead Man’s Tale?

[jagged badge]

Yeah

[chrome fog]

Thorn used to be Rose, but after Rezzyl Azzir (later known as Dredgen Yor) put Hive bones on it, he started getting corrupted due to the Hive Magicks put on them, turning it into the og Thorn. Yor went around killing Guardians, the bullets of the original Thorn being capable of draining their Light, and the wielder of the Last Word - the Man with the Golden Gun - Jarren Ward decided to hunt Yor down. Ward lost their standoff, but he had a successor in the form of Shin Malphur, who was resurrected as a baby and his ghost killed shortly after. Shin grew up and was then trained by Ward, then took up the Last Word to get revenge. He also got some assistance from the Sunbreaker order of Titans (this is theorized to be how Solar Hunters are able to summon their Golden Guns a la Solar Titan hammer) and was able to gun down Dredgen Yor. Shortly after, Yor had a small following of essentially edgy fanboys who wanted to do the same shit; Shin, his buddy Callum, and Drifter started the Shadows of Yor cult to essentially round up and scare off all these Dredgen wannabes, who were also mass producing Thorn replicas that function exactly how it does in-game. We’re able to find the og Thorn and cleanse it back into Rose, and then we turn it into Lumina in its exotic quest. We also find the broken Last Word and reforge it with new parts in its own exotic quest.

Specifically, the Last Word was used by Shin to kill Callum - with Callum under his Dredgen identity - which would spook the Shadows of Yor into breaking up because “Fuck shit, Shin’s on our ass and we’re nothing like Yor”; it broke after that last use and the quest entails rebuilding it with new parts

And then Malfeasance was mass produced amongst Drifter’s “patrons” (gambit players) under the pretense that “Should that high falutin’ fuck turns his sights on Gambit we gang him with enough explosive slugs” (all of this was back during Drifter’s introduction, so presumably he really was this paranoid back then, but it’s scaled back in recent times because of Young Wolf/the Guardian)

[empty fern]

Neat

[next bobcat]

I kinda hate how banshee’s actually Clovis bray, it was introduced in one exotic quest line and didn’t even have much significance after it. Banshee’s a nice and helpful guy in the tower we’ve known for ages, and then this Clovis bray guy is a giant robot head who is basically a rude, inferior version of Rasputin.

[trim grotto]

There were theories way, way back in the day.
Clovis-1 had a whole personal journey against the Clovis AI, though. To then evolve into Banshee.

[next bobcat]

I would love it if in the final shape there was a big battle against the witness’s armies, where everyone in the tower fought, like saint-14 with his shotgun/bastion, Zavala with the fourth horseman, cayde-6 with the ace of spades, and banshee with the lament.

[blazing wasp]

i doubt we'd have banshee fight here

he has just one life left

[next bobcat]

But by golly would it be neat if he became a light bearer

[blazing wasp]

i dont really see why he'd be one

[trim grotto]

I would say it'd mean he'd lose his memory, but

Y'know

[next bobcat]

What memories lmao

[ember storm]

would it improve his condition or just worsen it?

[next bobcat]

Idk

Crow got better

Sooooo

Maybe the light fixes things?

[chrome fog]

It's a joke; Guardians have no memories of their past life, save for a few Exo Guardians who have experienced the Crypt dream - itself an unexplained phenomena

So he'd basically just. reset for no reason, though he'll still have all his mannerisms and skills

Darkness however...; literally, Osiris in researching the Veil has better deliniated that the Darkness is of the mental domain whereas Light is of the physical

Plus I don't think that Banshee would appreciate it, seeing as Clovis purposefully reset himself one last time to start over without the burden of his previous legacy of... everything that Clovis did

Plus Plus Crow is not Uldren, Guardians are ultimately separated from their past life, effectively they are a blank slate who affects the same mannerisms and habits they had before

[tawdry mauve]

crow would be uldren if he got his memories back like immediately after being rezzed

but crow lived as crow for long enough before getting uldrens memories that in the end it didnt really change who he was

[dapper dawn]

Fun fact, the Pyramids are not spaceships, they are literally just mobile construction blocks shaped like pyramids so the Witness can turn them into structures. Inside the Pyramids we see these cubes similar to construction material, and that when the Pyramid is active, the areas of the pyramid that open up and reveal the inner-working of the pyramid as well as project resonance, that is essentially physical consciousness. Pyramid matter is pure consciousness which explains why physical or kinetic forces can't deal damage to the pyramids. Pyramids can only be suppressed by either overloading it with data such as what the Cabal used in the Communion mission in The Witchqueen. Or be damaged by the light-based weapons such as the Traveler's terraforming beam.

The remains of the Black Fleet fled into the Traveler (19 ships) and would be used to make the Citadel.

[trim grotto]

And whatever Queen Mara Sov did to that one by Eris (the celestial body).

[jagged badge]

Mael (the celestial body)

[trim grotto]

Also, we saw Pyramid construction prior to the Witness's civilisation finding the Veil.

What would be your explanation for that?

[errant osprey]

Ok so I just finished lightfall

What in the actual fuck did the witness do to the traveler with that pyramid portal

And wasn’t the traveler in d1 at tower? Like you could see it in the sky. How did he end up with it

[trim grotto]

Apart from immobilising it and rendering it catatonic? It has entered the Traveler.

[trim grotto]

It was above the City. Then, at the pinnacle of Season of the Seraph, it raised into the atmosphere, right as Eramis and Xivu were about to destroy it with the Warsat network.

It's been there ever since.

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-witch-queen-season-of-the-seraph-traveler-light-gif-27566963

Seraph cutscene really referencing the super old art

[errant osprey]

The traveller really been going through it I see

[empty fern]

Well

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-video-game-wreck-floating-debris-gif-16578045

It did fart too hard when taking the ghaul net off

[errant osprey]

What

[empty fern]

It’s been through a lot

[trim grotto]

Wow that's the worst possible way of saying that

[empty fern]

Even the pyramids could sense it

[willow flax]

what was that big ball of darkness in the d1 black garden mission where you kill the 3 giant minotaurs

[tawdry mauve]

the black heart

that was the vex diy veil

basically

[trim grotto]

The Black Heart. A failed attempt at the Veil by the Vex of the Sol Divisive (via plans laid by the Witness), but still held a connecting thread to the Traveler's heart which kept it from healing.

[willow flax]

i always questioned what those odd statues were on the nessus strikes but turns out theyre actually minotaurs

[chrome fog]

It also served as a source of paracausal energy that the Vex - specifically Sol Divisive - could farm from, though they could not accrue as much energy as other races because of the particular way their collective consciousness is constructed

Fun Fact: VoG was created with some of that energy

[trim grotto]

Wait right there @severe meadow this is one of mine

[severe meadow]

[trim grotto]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/s/cyJc2KvBgE

This is pre-Lightfall but the concept is unchanged

[chrome fog]

I was gonna look at pins to see if it’s there but man fuck the forced discord mobile update

[trim grotto]

Click the search button

It's in there

[chrome fog]

I’m certain mobile’s search is broken because I feel like even after the wipe you’ve posted that link before

[devout nimbus]

Nope

Only 2 results for that link

[trim grotto]

I meant the pinned messages are in there, not my post

[chrome fog]

My b, that’s what I thought you meant

[long glen]

exo stranger is me

[trim grotto]

We do know who the Exo Stranger is, if that's the joke here. Elsie/Elizabeth Bray, Clovis Bray's granddaughter.

[winter aspen]

[trim grotto]

you'd be surprised how many people come in here to meme or troll and actually end up learning

[winter aspen]

Well, every new day you learn something new

[empty fern]

Just hope it’s not the cow thing or the dog hive

Or the rabbit

[ember storm]

did someone say

[empty fern]

Shut

[steady nest]

what happens when a vex gets taken?

[ember storm]

it gets taken

[empty fern]

Like the cabals armor, the goo along with the mech become taken

(Same sentence but longer)

Valus signature shoulder spikes were taken in his later fight

[ember storm]

for the record vex aren’t “mechs”

their metal is grown

[empty fern]

What

[ember storm]

Asher’s flesh was being turned into the metal

it’s not just them melting down iron

[empty fern]

Living metal?

[ember storm]

it’s basically just an exoskeleton

[empty fern]

Ah yea then they just taken like any other then

[ember storm]

why do you think all vex tech has a 3D printed texture

[empty fern]

True

[grim kite]

Probably one of the coolest Taken Cabal. When enraged this dude ran faster then the player. 💀

[empty fern]

Too bad he can’t beat us at

Shooting while jumping a layer

Also his weapon is sick

[grim kite]

Yeah true, love the concept art of him

[ember storm]

why is he naked

[shadow warren]

Mobility purposes

[versed orbit]

Red taken

[warped gale]

So like, what exactly is the gardener and the winnower?

[chrome fog]

The Gardener is another name for the Traveler, and is used consistently to stand in for her outside of Unveiling

[ember storm]

Name on the government id

[chrome fog]

The Winnower is not mentioned anywhere else aside from Unveiling, to which we assume it a) does not exist and was made up by the Witness as a sort of self-insert to embody its ideals, b) it is the Veil, which suggests that the Witness was influenced by its contact with the Veil to go do everything that it has done, or C) the same as point (a) but that image then rooted itself into the Veil, which is important to what is in the Veil Containment Logs

Regardless, the Winnower doesn't exactly exist in any important manner save for motivation

[jagged badge]

Ahsa mentions “the Winnower” too

So it’s not just Unveiling using that

[abstract pagoda]

So is the winnower the veil?

[jagged badge]

Unknown

Ahsa tells us that the Witness’ first victims desired a Winnower to shape the Garden. She then says that they found the Veil. This could mean the Veil is the Winnower

However

They are the ones who try to use the Veil to achieve their desires. They are the ones that fused into the Witness and have singularly pursued this goal for eons and eons. This could mean the Witness wishes to become the Winnower it desired

So it could be the Veil, or it could be the general role the Witness wanted filled and is trying to fill

[lilac lantern]

Do yall think riven is in the right or wrong

[jagged badge]

About what?

[ember storm]

I honestly think she was more upset about losing her freedom from the great hunt rather than the actual killing of her kind, aside from taranis

I know we saved their whole clutch and ensured the ahamkara will continue on, but like

beyond that single generation aren’t they all still fucked?

[lilac lantern]

Do the other lots like the vex and that have beef with the ahamkara?

Idk much about the lore sorry 🙏

[ember storm]

the vex are pretty much only here because they’re being told to

the sol divisive (covered in moss and grass) are an offshoot of the rest that are obsessed with darkness

the witness hands out darkness like free sample trays to whoever, so the sol divisive are loosely following it’s orders

[shadow crypt]

Who is the current leader of the Vex rn?

[jagged badge]

The Vex don’t work that way

They’re separated into different groups, all separately working towards the same ultimate Vex goal

When they need to, they build specific Minds for certain roles

Whether that’s leadership in certain areas or for certain groups, or for specific purposes like the Martyr Mind who was built to drain Saint-14’s Light

[shadow crypt]

What is the ultimate Vex goal?

[jagged badge]

Convert everything into Vex

[lilac lantern]

So if no one else gonna kill the next ahamkara gen

Can’t they just like yk make another gen

And revive the species

[ember storm]

they’re all from the same brood

I don’t think it’d work out well

[trim grotto]

Perhaps, yes.

[trim grotto]

I'm not entirely sure if Ahamkara work like that. Or if it matters.

[ember storm]

for what it’s worth I had the same thought back when I watched Rio for the first time

[trim grotto]

I haven't actually watched Rio so the reference is lost on me

[ember storm]

it’s about two birds who are the last of their species

now that I think about it the line of questioning can apply to basically any story like that

[trim grotto]

Ah

There's a level of removal when it comes to magic wish dragons but two regular birds does make you question it

[ember storm]

I mean we have pretty good genetic cloning in real life so it probably isn’t that big a deal

just need to save enough samples I guess

or just get better at preserving the natural environment but I honestly think improvements in cloning are more likely

[errant osprey]

Ok here’s my thoughts about that lightfall ending

Inside the traveler

Is like a child or some sort of human

But with some sorta primordial power

Connected to something we just don’t or can’t understand

At which so say its goal is truly unknown but the witness on the other hand

Doesn’t want to leave things up to fate

Or the travelers will

So he’s up to something both sinister but likely for the good of things

Like eren in AoT

But whatever the traveler is in human form

Is more powerful than anyone thinks and is easily able to take on and take out the witness if needed to be but likely won’t due to some unknown goal

So their clash will be something to witness in itself which I think the guardians will likely get there during the climax of it all

And thank you for my Ted talk

I think the traveler isn’t just some sorta entity but rather like a ship or vessel of some kind

[blazing wasp]

why celebrate

oh

ah.

[dim minnow]

ok, idea I just had on Ahamkara

them feeding on the difference between what is desired and what is granted could be a roundabout way on feeding on the difference between Light and Dark

since desire is a conscious thing while the effects of the wish alter the physical world

then again, Ikora did make a wish that changed her mentally

[light stratus]

What's Necrochasm lore

[empty fern]

Crota took a guardians weapon and experimented with it

Or experimented with the light that was in it since it was held by a guardian

[light stratus]

Thanks

[steady nest]

do you think there are gonna be vex in the final shape

[empty fern]

The dlc? Probably not, but the episode (season) during it? Probably yea

[steady nest]

yeah i was talking about the dlc

[empty fern]

Probably not then, only been seeing hive and scorn,

And maybe cabal and fallen if you include the statues

[ember storm]

what statues

[empty fern]

Remember that cut up warbeast statue in the trailers?

And the fallen captain

Not trailers but the stream

[ember storm]

not really

[empty fern]

Oh, well then it’s that that I was referring to

[ember storm]

when was the stream

[empty fern]

It was uhhh https://www.youtube.com/live/RqIvKN4gtto?si=pHeyCYDJqXBdU7sT

During this

[empty fern]

Oh wait I have the cabal right here

[empty fern]

Come back pretty pls

[keen obsidian]

How do guardian bullets kill giant men and creatures and pierce large armors??

What stops a large cabal man from beating a guardian?

[jagged badge]

Nothing?

Guardians aren’t infallible

[empty fern]

We use the light

We get regeneration, maybe better durable armor
And have more power enhanced by the light

As for dark subclasses? Idk

[trim grotto]

Firstly, we use Light.
Secondly, nothing. They can and have beaten Guardians plenty of times.

[dim minnow]

the Light makes Guardians paracausal beings which make our weapons stronger purely by the virtue of us wielding them

our will forces an ontological effect

[empty fern]

Big words

[keen obsidian]

Is the armor stronger too

[ember storm]

it’s armor

it provides better protection than not having it, but if you’re taking the brunt of an ogre blast or an entire crew of fallen firing you down, you’ll be dead

[jagged badge]

There’s actually an explanation about paracausality making it so that some shots hit our armour and then…don’t

[ember storm]

basically just canon explanation for lag

[dim minnow]

I'm also pretty sure the overshield we have ingame is canon too

since when Amanda one-tapped Crow in Defiance, we see a white burst which normally happens when we are reduced to red health

[ember storm]

I’m assuming that’s the light protection thing

[dim minnow]

so also assume that a Guardian's health bar also applies to lore

[ember storm]

after your shield goes down you start bleeding on the screen corner

[dim minnow]

red health is probably normal health for everyone else

[ember storm]

nerds can only take five dreg shots

[tawdry mauve]

i think theres still some gameplay logic behind it

because you can still survive quite a few things that would normally kill someone with just red health

[chrome fog]

Mmmm where did we get a look into the Traveler?

[jagged badge]

I mean, we know it’s a shell around something

[jagged badge]

The Traveler is eons and eons older than the Earth forming. It ain’t a human

[chrome fog]

I'm more the mind that the Traveler is a shell the same way the human body is a fleshy vessel for whatever is our concious self

[jagged badge]

But memory is heavy now. 

It feels like lead and neutronium and electroweak matter fashioned into a moon-sized ball that you must carry as you move. 

Now, your flight is rapid, your vast mind infected with such dread and toxic doubt that you find yourself afraid of the simple act of thought. 

And it is your children you must turn to now, in time of need.```

[chrome fog]

Yeah. The Traveler orb is her body, but there's more to her than simply her physical form; and the heavy suggestion that whatever/whoever she is, as a supposed creator god or someone who's helped facilitated life in the universe from the beginning means that "entering inside the Traveler" would involve something as esoteric as entering a "Previous Universe" which is common to stories which involve the use of "Akashic Records"

Smth Smth, projecting your self to a controllable vessel, smth smth, that vessel is not the entirety of yourself but still enacts what you desire

Traveler/Gardener stuck in the game a la Sword Art Online

[ember storm]

the heart of the traveler is a low quality wolf jpg

[trim grotto]

@jagged badge
Do a pose

[jagged badge]

[trim grotto]

Blueris

[tawdry mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-wrong-with-you-why-are-you-blue-what-is-wrong-with-you-why-are-you-blue-brba-breaking-bad-gif-26777019

[heady gyro]

can ghosts revive a new guardian using the smallest bit of genetic material?

[dim minnow]

we don't know how much remains are needed, but we know there has to be remains left

[heady gyro]

would like a piece of cloth with some hair in it work?

[dim minnow]

I doubt it

[trim grotto]

We simply don't know a minimum. We know skeletal remains can work, but that's the extent of our awareness past the extreme of "can't be atomised".
However, there is this tidbit.

PARTIES: One [1]. One [1] Ghost-type, designate undesignated [u]
ASSOCIATIONS: First Light
//AUDIO UNAVAILABLE//
//TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS…/

[u:01] Finally! Another First Light technician.
[u:02] All right, let's see about you…
[u:03] Hoo boy. Another one.
[u:04] DNA degradation alone makes this impossible, but even if I could bring you back, who'd put you back together again?```

[heady gyro]

i guess dna degradation marks it as impossible

than any identifiable genetic material could work

[trim grotto]

That's stretching it a bit far

I'm providing minimums, not maximums

[heady gyro]

a cell would obviously be a stretch i think, but i wouldnt discard most options as possible

[trim grotto]

I'm not discarding anything, but I'm not attributing anything as possible without further information, either.

We know skeletal structures work, a body mustn't be atomised, and DNA can be twisted beyond revivability.

[ember storm]

atomized meaning not even ashes are left, correct?

[dim minnow]

yes

[ember storm]

nice for there to be concrete distinctions

but this does also mean we could’ve just cremated Savathun instead of lugging her giant rotting corpse everywhere

[dim minnow]

1. If you're suggesting that atomizing a Guardian's body will stop their Ghost from rezzing them again, it won't
2. Keeping her body intact prevents Immaru from rezzing her from far away apparently. So if we were to completely destroy the body, Immaru could just bring her back from the safety of the Throne World

[ember storm]

I think if no rez for the weary never happened we’d just be happier

[trim grotto]

Not even. We get atomised regularly, and the whole idea to sequester is older than that entry

[pure tree]

how does the average guardian compare to the average hive lightbearer?

like on the top end, considering we've defeated every lucent hive commander we've encountered, on the top end, the best guardians are better than the best hive lightbearers, but what about as an average

[dim minnow]

Hive Lightbearers are restricted on how they use Light due to how they revere it

[pure tree]

so guardians are free to push the boundaries and experiment while hive lightbearers have to use the light based on whats known from the past because of their reverance?

[dim minnow]

it moreso has to do with Hive guardians not seeing the Light they use as their own

I suppose lore-wise, your average guardian and Hive Lightbearer are on par with each other given that many Guardians were killed in the EDZ during Risen

though the fact that Hive Lightbearers are much newer means they lack the experience that a lot of Guardians are going to have

granted there are stronger Hive Lightbearers like GotD and Psi-Ops bosses which had a fireteam of three take on

[empty fern]

Waiting for drifter to eat a light hive

[blazing wasp]

Light hive? They're pretty heavy to me...

[ember storm]

do light hive smell like white chocolate

[empty fern]

Honestly?

Milk chocolate maybe

What’s in vanilla again?

Where’s femchurch damnit

[dim minnow]

Fenchurch claimed that the inside of the Traveler smells like vanilla

also, Hive are described to not smell very good, so I doubt Lucent Hive would smell any better

[empty fern]

I see

[chrome fog]

Vanilla

The flavor/scent is derived from Vanilla beans

[empty fern]

Oh

[chrome fog]

Ben

[empty fern]

A million tiny ants

[ember storm]

this is like asking “what’s in mustard”

mustard is made of mustard

[empty fern]

Mustard is real?

[little gorge]

well

that's natural vanilla

the thing that gives it its flavor is vanillin

(the compound found in the fake vanilla flavoring)

[chrome fog]

Most mustard is made from mustard seeds, themselves ground up and mashed into a paste and some other stuff added in to make it mustard
https://youtu.be/ffyoiok6f_c?si=O74Nf1E5R-ZgblB1

A lot of stuff is just plant stuff ground into a paste

Tangentially related, the weapons from the Moon have peppers on them in the little wards that are on them

There’s a project that goes a bit into it on the Cryptarchy server, elaborates further on them

[empty fern]

Neat

But anyways

Light hive would smell like

[chrome fog]

Rotted corpses and wet earth

[empty fern]

Damn

[chrome fog]

I mean having the Light doesn’t mean they’re physiologically that much different; also still ritualistically kill others and each other kinda plus there’s nothing really denoting a culture of bathing

[jagged badge]

And vanilla

[chrome fog]

A reminder that moist, fresh dirt is basically the final processed result of any and all biological matter, so meat, plants, whatever

[chrome fog]

Not necessarily? That’s simply the smell the Traveler’s physical shell has according to Fenchurch, unless they have bits of Traveler stuck on them

[heady gyro]

Which tab explains number 2?

[chrome fog]

I think it’s No Rez for the Weary? Whichever one is about the Guardian stuck in a time freeze bubble thing on the Almighty, which prevented their Ghost from being able to rez them

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/no-rez-for-the-weary

Exactly that, neat

[outer dragon]

The mechanics of a ghost rez aren't exactly well understood

[worldly river]

There seem to be different requirements for biological matter needed to resurrect a Guardian when they die vs reviving someone as a Guardian for the first time

[chrome fog]

But then the atomization of the body still allowing ressurection of the Guardian remains a consistent outlier of those guidelines

[trim grotto]

Your face is an atomization of the body allowing for resurrection of a Guardian that's a constant outlier of those guidelines

[chrome fog]

Ur mom is an atomization of the body allowing for rebehduhbehdubeh

[trim grotto]

[chrome fog]

I am the cursebearer of the knowledge of several fictional universes, a rock to the head would be a relief

[empty fern]

The true chronicler

Of calus

[ember storm]

mule tree

[eternal widget]

Adjust your lore glasses they are to tight

[chrome fog]

The lenses are affixed to my corneas, I twist my eyeballs like binoculars or goggles and my brain picks the next hyperfixation

[eternal widget]

Good god man you need to take them off

[blazing wasp]

Sorry babe, the lore glasses remain on during #📚lore-discussion

[eternal widget]

Not if they are that tight

[heady gyro]

Do all hunters rez with solar as a first subclass? Vice versa for the other classes?

[sick yew]

No

You dont rez with any subclass really

Since you first need to study/train how to utilize the light

Channel it through certain elements

@heady gyro

[heady gyro]

So just kinda whichever way they manifest their light first is what becomes the subclass

[trim grotto]

Pretty much. Though it wouldn't be as refined as a subclass, per se, until they reach the Tower and learn more.

[sick yew]

You can imagine the subclasses in general more like learning a martial art
You need to learn and train with them before you can properly pull it off

Unlike in the actual game there isnt anything preventing a Titan from pulling out a Golden Gun for example as long as they learned to do so

Depending on how skilled they are they may also be able to do their own stuff with the light

[blazing wasp]

Classes and subclasses are just overly convoluted martial arts

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't strictly say that
I believe it's part of how they naturally manifest their Light
To paraphrase Crow, you don't see a Warlock with a Golden Gun.

Light is malleable and tricks can be shared, but I don't think it's entirely as free flowing as that.

[blazing wasp]

I imagine it partially relies on a mindset, for a lack of a better word

I'm unsure what the word is

[trim grotto]

I'd agree

[blazing wasp]

It's like there's a lot of martial arts, like school subjects, but a ceirtan intrinsic mindset very difficult to change is required for them

[sick yew]

Because class culture generally keep their stuff to themselves
But theyre merely social constructs no?

[blazing wasp]

Though we've seen guardians pull off things other classes can, so there's more than 3, there's just 3 of them that are the most common

[sick yew]

You arent resurrected a titan or a warlock its more of a role you fall into

[blazing wasp]

Yes

And you fall into that role because of your uh

I'll just call it mindset

Because I don't know a better word

[sick yew]

So yeah there fact Warlocks use their funny flame swords and Titans their little void shields and so on doesnt meant they couldnt also learn a seperate classes skill if they so wanted to

It generally doesnt happen

But its possible

[blazing wasp]

But that mindset is what restricts you, sure a warlock could in theory make a golden gun, but it'd be harder

[sick yew]

Ofc

[blazing wasp]

It's like if a personality trait determined how talented you'd be at a subject in school

[trim grotto]

As a hypothetical
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/into-the-fray#book-ghost-stories
When you read this, what class do you see them as?

[blazing wasp]

Most are good one of three specific things, some people can do multiple, some can do something entirely different (like drifter)

[blazing wasp]

Titan?

[trim grotto]

Prior to the Last City, Guardians weren't Guardians, and classes didn't exist. But each Lightbearer still fell into what we now consider the classic class roles. Felwinter, Timur, Warlocks. Shaxx, Saladin, Jolder, Titans. Efrideet, Gheleon, Hunter.

[trim grotto]

Exactly

[blazing wasp]

Titans are just paladins and barbarians with magic

[trim grotto]

Now, we know Grenades are cross-class. Blink is too, and supposedly Hunters learned it from the Warlocks. But a Warlock has never conjured a Golden Gun.

So there is, somewhere down the line, some degree of limit, even if it is as simple as mindset, the way you weave your Light, something in your nature.

[blazing wasp]

Because blink can be argued as something a hunter would pull off, and a warlock too, but not something a titan would do

It's very mobile, its flashy, and "magical"

"Teleporting" is a common troupe among both ninja and rogues and such in media, and for wizards and such

[ember storm]

it's because warlocks see their solar subclass as superior

[empty fern]

Lore question of the day
||hah you thought there would be activity here huh, bozo||

[past trellis]

Would vex milk be chocolate or vanilla?

[blazing wasp]

salt.

we have confirmation on vex milk taste

or at least oracles

which we can assume tastes similar to vex milk?

[empty fern]

Why is drifter eating oracles?

[chrome fog]

I AM THE LOREKEEPER AND if it bothers you so much you could like. Stop drawing attention to it. Should be obvious I enjoy learning about fictional worlds, so like whatever you say isn’t gonna change that

[ember storm]

he’s been feeling like SEE-FOOD lately

[orchid flame]

who is naeem from wlr

[jagged badge]

She was a Warlord who was directed to the castle where Hefnd’s bones laid by Shaxx, who had killef Hefnd

[orchid flame]

and hefnd was the ahamkara?

[jagged badge]

Yep

[orchid flame]

then why is the boss Hefnd's vengeance?

I thought it was a taken servitor?

[jagged badge]

Naeem befriended Hefnd, and when she was slain by the House of King’s, her dying wish was for her vengeance to follow them to their graves or something like that. When the Taken came around, Hefnd’s will bound them to him, and he used their power to raise the now-dead Kings as Scorn

[jagged badge]

Riven had a Taken Chimaera as an avatar of herself in Forsaken, so Hefnd has one too

It’s an expression of his grief and desire for vengeance for Naeem

[orchid flame]

I see

That's really cool

Why is the vengeance mad at us?

We're perceived as intruders?

[chrome fog]

There's no real direct explanation why, but consider we're entering what is essentially the home that Hefned and Naeem shared, Naeem's final resting place, to which Hefnd's Vengeance is somewhat tasked with safeguarding.

[ember storm]

Hefned’s act of revenge against the fallen who killed Naeem was to raise them as scorn, and we just show up and start slaughtering them

[dim minnow]

I'd also consider the idea that the Chimaera is technically mindless lashing out at anyone and anything

while Hefnd is bound to it, Hefnd might not have control over it

flavor text for the final encounter objective tells us that Hefnd's vengeance is now sated and all that's left for us to do is put Hefnd out of his misery

[eternal widget]

Adjust your lore glasses they are to tight

[empty fern]

No

[eternal widget]

Yes you can't see you'll feel better

[chrome fog]

Do you know how to enjoy anything

You seem intent in coming into a place meant for something and tell everyone to get out

“Oh it’ll be funny if I tell the lore channel people to stop talking about lore”

Like use some common sense

[desert tree]

I got a D1 campaign question, because I'm re-watching all of the Destiny 1 campaigns (I realize I never played anything other than the campaign it came with, and my memory in that campaign is a lil hazy): Why does Uldren have beef with the Lone Wolf when they first meet?

[dim minnow]

Uldren just really dislikes guardians

So he's done everything to Guardians he can think of—shot them up, shot them down, sent them on doomed quests, dunked their Ghosts in intolerably stinky selenophenol, drilled holes to bury their obnoxious patrol beacons inside solid rock, tricked them into disassembling mighty weapons.```

this quotes explains it the best

[desert tree]

huh, Uldren really was a... not great person (word I want to use is apparently not allowed, which is new)

[dim minnow]

I wouldn't call him a terrible person

at least not inherently

[chrome fog]

The Awoken are written and portrayed with a sense of superiority towards the Guardians - at least early in the games’ continuous development - which I think is meant to reflect how they’re essentially space elves

Which to be fair, we’re kinda lil loot goblins at times and not always shining pinnacles of humanity

Savin, the first Guardian Mara encounters, is severely in-game accurate in his behavior, which puts her off

[dim minnow]

your next line is:
"Adjust your lore glasses they are to tight"

[eternal widget]

@chrome fog it's a joke

I'll stop and leave yall alone

Also I was just trolling by saying adjust your lore glasses they are to tight did you not get that

@chrome fog

[dim minnow]

more annoying when its the only trick you use

no punchline either

no substance

[eternal widget]

Fair enough

[dim minnow]

a failed attempt at comedy

[eternal widget]

But not a trolling a little

At

[chrome fog]

The only funny thing is the joke was immediately shut down the first time and yet 5 times later nothing has changed

[eternal widget]

Its the second time but ok

[eternal widget]

Ok

That's even funnier that yall know the exact number you guys truly are nerds I respect it and will no longer bother you

[desert tree]

new Lore question, bit more of a search for a list than an actual question: is there a list of Exotic Weapons that are owned exclusively by the Lone Wolf or the Signature Weapon of an NPC? I know some Exotic Weapons like Skyburner, Vex Mythoclast, and Lord of Wolves are just weapons guardians plucked from standard fodder enemies, so im trying to figure out if there are any other weapons that aren't "the one and only" for the most part

[dim minnow]

to figure that out you need to look at the context and lore for several of them

[trim grotto]

By "Lone Wolf", do you mean us, the Young Wolf?

[dim minnow]

some exotics are a special product and as such having multiple copies of it in universe makes sense

like Prometheus Lens, Coldheart, Hard Light, etc.

some (mainly quest exotics) are technically the only one of their kind given lore context

for instance, the Thorn we have ingame is merely a repaired replica of one so multiple Thorns makes sense

[desert tree]

oh, is it Young instead of Lone? I thought it was always Lone for some reason

[dim minnow]

while Lumina is one of a kind since it was made from the OG Thorn and since there is only one OG Thorn, there can only be one Lumina canonically speaking

then you got No Time to Explain which canonically has multiple versions of itself and we had a few of these different versions

but only one of these different versions should exist theoretically

[trim grotto]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11ziR1O3gVNx-8LNi5hmp1CF1RQpG2wR1w950cnikpOQ/edit

bam

one docco created by the Cryptarchs

[dim minnow]

so if there is another of a specific version, then it could be a version of a different timeline

[trim grotto]

partial thanks to @jagged badge for this one

[desert tree]

oh damn this is perfect

[dim minnow]

I gotta see what they have written down for NTTE in this

[trim grotto]

uuuh also this is the edit link so
don't, uh
don't edit it

[calm granite]

no touchy the wordy

[desert tree]

oooh il make a copy of it then bail then, just so I don't do it by accident

[dim minnow]

I'd prefer "multiple but not multiple at the same time multiple times"

or maybe "multiple unique versions that may each be multiple"

that would be better for an actual serious description

maybe you would have to specify which version of NTTE

since D1 NTTE is a different one from the D2 NTTE

[dim minnow]

here's a suggestion
for the D1 Pulse Rifle segment, list this:
No Time to Explain (Delilah's analysis) - Unique?

for D2 Pulse Rifle segment, list this:
No Time to Explain (Novarro's analysis) - Unique?

since the lore tab tells us that D2 NTTE is Novarro's and details from the D1 NTTE quest tells us that one is most likely Delilah's version

[trim grotto]

You can put that forward to Eris
I didn't have a hand in this document, other Cryptarchs did

[dim minnow]

will have to make a note to do that

[eternal widget]

Hey guys I'm sorry I 🌧 on your lore I feel bad

[jagged badge]

I didn’t actually end up doing most of that document haha

[desert tree]

wait, hold up

why does Shaxx have one? it seems very unlike him to use a Devil's Ruin

[trim grotto]

Devil's Ruin represents the same thing that Gjallarhorn does. Fragments of material from the old battle of Twilight Gap forged this gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEUIncnUdGc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyAyOFl_CLU
The short version

This was, by the way, right after Saint-14's return.

Fantastic quotes here

[light stratus]

Why does the disciples of The Witness explode when killed

[blazing wasp]

Microbombs, like in metal gear 3

[empty fern]

Witness army really is just a bunch of screebs then

[ember storm]

unironically I feel like the disciples are enhanced with the dark vine things like senator armstrong’s nanomachines

they might make them tougher to kill and even heal small injuries, but darkness can’t undo death, so when they die it all spills out at once and calcifies

[light stratus]

That actually makes sense

[empty fern]

So that explains tormentor weak points

[ember storm]

no they just take way too much protein and their muscles are very delicate to damage