📚lore-discussion

[fresh zephyr]

Ah

So they are not fully dead to say the least but what about riven?

[gentle geyser]

How did you come to that conclusion

[chrome fog]

Theories thinkies it’s like a Memory - a cleansed Nightmare from season of the Haunted - also given a recreated physical shell; and from the fact the exotic ship from Deep is titled “Akashic Revelation” and Jocer, the Titan in the ship, was able to experience memories from before he was rezzed - specifically those about the Ares-One mission - point to this Cayde also having all the memories and experience of his past life too

[frigid sparrow]

Refer to the first mission of the season; we went back to last wish and found riven's bones there. With that imprint of riven still existing, the techeuns were able to will her soul back into reality in a form that, while generally stable, would be used to grant the 15th wish.

Riven was also pretty confident in saying how she'd see us again, so it's unlikely she's truly gone- especially with her eggs secured

[dim minnow]

wasn't she referring to Mara there?

[frigid sparrow]

idk I can't remember anything specific from this season other than crow jumping through the funny portal but either way it's still the same "we'll meet again" deal

"until we meet again, mara"

[dim minnow]

the fact that Riven is pretty much gone now has me thinking that statement has more dire implications

[frigid sparrow]

like what, that they'd see each other in death?

[dim minnow]

probably

we still don't really know what the consequence of the 15th Wish will be

unless Riven pulled a Taranis and didn't leave one

[trim grotto]

Well that depends on whether you're interested in experiencing the seasonal story - particularly this week - or not

Well, it would, if others hadn't already discussed it

[safe galleon]

do we know which exo currently holds the title for highest amount of resets?

[jagged badge]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

Check Eris's reply

[safe galleon]

2625??

[jagged badge]

2̷͛̅6̸̂̀2̵̍̉5̸̈́̂*

[ember storm]

if you also want to be technical we have no idea how many loops Elsie has been through but that doesn’t really count

[trim grotto]

She's at least Elsie-2 but that's the most we can say

[heady monolith]

how much would it hurt if i were to be unravelled via strand irl

[solid jasper]

a lil bit prolly

[jagged badge]

I mean

[heady monolith]

oh im sure it just tickled

[cinder anvil]

What’s the guardians kill count

[gentle geyser]

Which one

[cinder anvil]

The players

[ember storm]

how is anyone supposed to know that answer

[cinder anvil]

Idk :3

[ember storm]

anyway the answer is

at least 4

[cinder anvil]

Too high

[trim grotto]

[dim minnow]

not just the total count that matters

who exactly we kill holds significant weight as well

[blazing wasp]

There's no actual, canon/official kill count, we can just determine the minimum

It's likely a lot given how many enemies we've torn through on some missions

[light stratus]

Who's the strongest of each class

[dim minnow]

strongest guardian for each class lore wise?

[light stratus]

Yes

[dim minnow]

my best estimates would be:
Titan - Saint-14
Warlock - Osiris or Ikora (leaning towards Osiris)
Hunter - not enough info but Ana Bray is best candidate (refer to the time she fired two golden gun shots that traveled for light years)

[light stratus]

That's impressive what the hunter did

[dim minnow]

granted that feat for Ana was done when her Ghost "overcharged" her with Light so its not like its something she can do anytime

plus we never really saw anything like that again

and this was back in mid-Y3

really wish Bungie would show us more of that overcharge thing

despite that though, Ana Bray has some other stuff going for her

like how her Golden Gun shots can leave wells of Light that remain burning to this day

[frigid sparrow]

or show us hunters doing anything

biased opinion but hunters are like most shafted class story wise

anyone who is a hunter gets minimal screen time (whether it be because they just don't do anything or are limited to seasonal stories, respectively shaw han and ana bray) are barely shown doing anything interesting (have we seen crow in action, like, ever?) or are dead/might as well be dead (cayde and sorry shiro but when was the last time he was even mentioned in lore)

hell, even hive lightbearers shaft their hunter acolytes, first boss of risen was an acolyte, the two lucent hive we see in plunder were a knight/wizard, then there's ecthar and simmumah who are the main bosses of GOTD with an acolyte only being in the catalyst quest

[wheat flower]

Bungie is careful about lightbearer acolytes in hard content cause their super not only tracks better than knight shield but does aoe dmg 2

[frigid sparrow]

I mean I get it but damn it hurts let my guys have some significance they're cool as shit design wise 😭

[sleek matrix]

Pop a tether and there out the super

There not soo bad in endgame tbh

[light stratus]

Could two Guardian share the same ghost

[safe galleon]

if an exo can undergo every manner of human sensation, does that mean they can starve to death, die via shock from intense pain, etc. etc.? or can they have those experiences, but never die from them?

[safe galleon]

the true answer is 'bait it out then duck behind cover' like it is for virtually every attack in the game, since most enemies' ai isnt prepared to conquer the challenge of the almighty corner

[little gorge]

i don't know but logically wouldn't the experience of feeling like you're starving but not dying cause DER?

[jagged badge]

No

[trim grotto]

Wait right there buckaroo

I've got an answer for you

Next to him, Knox-4 sighs with relief and longing. "I miss lunch. I miss getting hungry."

Cayde grins as much as his mechanical face will allow. "Hmm…" he intones in his best Dr. Abrams impression, "So you would say… you're hungry for hunger?"

Knox bursts into guffaws. Cayde chuckles weakly. It wasn't that funny. But as his friend's laughter grows, so does Cayde's. Soon, they're both clutching each other and howling.```

Cayde-1, by the way. Not the Guardian we know.

[trim grotto]

I'll also ping you for that

Double ping

[opal kelp]

Has the power of Ahamkara's wish been defined?

[trim grotto]

Vaguely, but yes. Some Wishes are too much to grant. And strong ones require some powerful will, such as the DC Curse needing all six of us.

[opal kelp]

So just simple wishing for the witness to be destroyed is too big of a wish?

instead we had to settle for just sending crow into the portal.

[trim grotto]

There's also the alternative
Say that we could wish to destroy it... what comes from that? Did it never exist in the first place? If so, why? No Veil? Does that mean no Darkness? Consciousness never existed. The universe is cold and lifeless.

Maybe it dies because it fails to interact with the Traveler, and destroys her along with it. Maybe it dies because it sacrifices itself to succeed in the Final Shape.

[opal kelp]

Sure, we don't know the consequences of it but that seems to be our goal.

[trim grotto]

True. But Ahamkara wishes are unpredictable at best. A Wish to kill Riven cursed the Dreaming City forevermore.
Ikora is quite literally not the same person she was after fighting Ahamkara.
Azarim wasn't even Wished to, he just walked an entire gathering of people who welcomed him, off a cliff.

Ahamkara reshaping Venus caused such an anomaly in the sky that it caused people to shoot themselves

[opal kelp]

So it's possible this 15th wish has consequences we haven't discovered yet?

[trim grotto]

Indeed. And in a way, it already has. We've reverted the extinction of this race already.

There's no way to know the consequences of that

[opal kelp]

Can't wait....

but 5 months is too long

[shadow warren]

Do we actually know what the Ikora thing entails

[chrome fog]

Reminder that while they do have pain tolerance, Guardians still feel pain. Ie, look at the Titan who gouged his eyes out due to Nezarec

[ember storm]

crash bandicoot

[safe galleon]

i thought they were specifically designed to be able to feel human stimuli so their brains didnt donk out on them? including pain?

like, as far as i recall they can eat for example and there's... some kind of system that handles that kind of thing

[jagged badge]

They can eat

They just don’t need to

[chrome fog]

The bodies have some sort of nuclear battery I think? Or I could be merging info from the DSC raid; but ye the bodies are self-sufficient but the function to eat and process food is built in to keep the subconscious happy and non-self-mutilate-y

[safe galleon]

i thought the vex milkies ran them?

or is that just one component of whatever keeps them alive

[jagged badge]

No

[jagged badge]

Radiolaria + Clarity is used to create a substance that facilitates a consciousness that doesn’t billboard

[chrome fog]

I really hate this comparison but that one episode of the last Rick and Morty season with Trinity, think of that for a visual as to how the Clarity-Cleansed alkahest operates in that without the Vex Network connected to it, another consciousness can then be housed within

[little gorge]

huh

that's weird

[trim grotto]

DER is largely caused by subconscious issues. If one is never hungry, they never feel starved, and the brain doesn't start thinking it's dying.

[foggy bane]

Ok so uh i've been watching ||Evaze||'s 4 hour video about Destiny Lore and at the Season Of Plunder section, Saint-14 and Osiris where... ||kissing?||
Is Osiris and Saint canonically ||gay?||

[sleek matrix]

There a couple yes

[foggy bane]

that's cute

[sleek matrix]

Alot of ppl tried to deny it but the writes and the lore entries confirmed it

They were estranged for a long time thou

[foggy bane]

that's why Saint-14 is so preocupied bout Osiris

i thought they were just besties

[sleek matrix]

Saint went to look for osiris in the infinite forest but he died

And he was laid to rest by the vex

So osiris created the sun dial to bring back osiris

Some time travel shit basically

[foggy bane]

yeah i got that part

i don't understand why Osiris was in a coma tho

like, when Savathûn released him, he was already in a coma?

[sleek matrix]

Savathun took over his body awhile back and when we got her out

Osiris went into a coma state

[foggy bane]

ooh

aight

[sleek matrix]

We used nez relics and made tea to bring osiris out of the coma

That was during season of the plunder

[jagged badge]

Destiny has a lot of queer characters actually, it’s pretty great

Some are very obvious/explicitly confirmed/named like Osiris and Saint are, and some are more open for interpretation

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-kings-fall-season-of-plunder-witch-queen-oryx-gif-26626506

[jagged badge]

Forgot to rally

[shadow crypt]

Hive gods are pretty huge

[shadow warren]

Chomp

[blazing wasp]

You even have a list right

[jagged badge]

Indeed

[blazing wasp]

show

:)

[jagged badge]

Saint-14
Osiris
Lord Shaxx
Devrim Kay
Marc
Suraya Hawthorne
Mara Sov
Sjur Eido
Eramis
Athrys
Ana Bray
Camrin Dumuzi
Elisabeth Bray
Ikora Rey
Drifter
Eriana-3
Wei Ning
Micah-10
Hector Abram
Wesley Abram
Maya Sundaresh
Chioma Esi
Chalco Yong
Amrita Vae
Kazia
Mist-1
Orewing
Nimbus
Stargazer
Quinn Laghari
Paolo
Adinew
Oryx

[blazing wasp]

:))

[wheat flower]

Tbf

If you never die and are immortal

Swinging both ways makes sense

[jagged badge]

Uh, no, that’s not how it works at all

[empty fern]

I can kinda see his point

[jagged badge]

How?

Lifespan does not affect your sexuality

[empty fern]

Boredom usually makes you try new things
Is what I think they meant

Either that or, spending long enough with anyone will make you think of them

[wheat flower]

This yes

No point restricting yourself to just one gender when your essentially undying withing the walls

You should read skulduggery pleasant resurrection

He makes a point that people who live forever and have not found a partner shouldn't just restrict themselves to half the population

[jagged badge]

That is not how it works

You don’t choose your sexuality

It’s an innate thing

It’s fluid in the sense you can realise and discover who you are, and thus your label for yourself may change over time, but it’s not a case of “I’m immortal and bored, I can choose to be attracted to someone else”

[wheat flower]

See i feel like its exactly like that last sentence

[shadow crypt]

How old are the characters in D2?

[jagged badge]

Depends

[wheat flower]

Saladin and the drifter are among the oldest humans

[shadow crypt]

Over 100?

[jagged badge]

Okay but you are wrong

[wheat flower]

Ye

[jagged badge]

Well over

[shadow crypt]

Damn wth

Drifter looks 40

[wheat flower]

[shadow crypt]

30 ish

Saladin looks about 50-60

[jagged badge]

Remember that Lightbearers are immortal

[wheat flower]

Lightbearers don't age

[shadow crypt]

Ohhh

[jagged badge]

And that humanity have 300 year lifespans anyway thanks to the Traveler

[wheat flower]

Drifters easily over 400 years old

He ran a pub beneath the mountain that the iron lords were at

[empty fern]

Speaking of iron lords

[wheat flower]

They all died bar one

[empty fern]

Well

Some made it to the destination

But that’s like 10% of the total

[jagged badge]

Two

[empty fern]

So that’s where felwinter went

Also, siva affected the sheer size of the iron lords (salad man for reference)

[shadow crypt]

So the witness killed his own kind?

[empty fern]

Where?

[shadow crypt]

In the cutscene it’s says it’s first victims were their own people

or something like that

[empty fern]

Hmmm

Wasn’t that of the traveler?

[jagged badge]

The Witness is the whole species merged into one gestalt being

But from the cutscene, it kinda looked like it may have been a violent ordeal

I can’t imagine the whole species was for it

But they may have been forced

[shadow crypt]

So it’s a bunch of people in the witness and just not one person?

[jagged badge]

Correct. That’s why its head has all those souls coming out of it. Normally its species just have the one normal head

[shadow crypt]

That’s interesting

[outer dragon]

Gesundheit

[vapid nymph]

the witness’s species all collectively killed themselves then merged into one dude through weird magic

[empty fern]

How come ecthar got some notice but this guy just chills at the edge of the dreadnaught

[ember storm]

Ecthar is a quest boss

[light stratus]

Could the worm gods have like a throne world

[trim grotto]

Well, Akka and Xol didn't have ones. And we've seen no evidence of others with one.
But I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

[chrome fog]

Did I hear my username

[chrome fog]

Ahsa has described essentially swimming through the Ascendent Plane to get to Titan, and since she’s from a related species it might be that the Worm Gods can slip in and out of the Ascendent Plane at will

[worldly river]

Good point actually, never thought about why the Worm Gods never seemed to have Throne Worlds
Hell, if they had access to thr Ascendant Plane you'd expect they'd have been able to slip by the Leviathan, though judging by Ahsa the Leviathan also should've been able to so maybe it'd just stop them

Spiderman pointing meme

[trim grotto]

Not sure what the connection between Ahsa and the Leviathan is but presumably the Worm Gods couldn't simply leave

[worldly river]

Acting on the assumption that they're the same species unless it's otherwise disproved

[chrome fog]

We don’t actually know if the Leviathan is related, somehow it’s still extremely vague as to what it is; I remember some old discussion in the Cryptarchy that some lines about the Proto-Worms or Worm Gods themselves betraying one another could implicate the Levithan being of a similar species but it’s not conclusive enough

[trim grotto]

Why would we assume that

[worldly river]

See above

[chrome fog]

The phrasing doesn’t make it clear if it’s the Worm Gods that betrayed the Proto-Worms or if vice versa

[trim grotto]

That doesn't answer my question

[chrome fog]

Not really that much evidence pointing towards the assumption, save for Ahsa’s appearance being somewhat similar to descriptions of the mythological creature Leviathan

And also above but again not conclusive enough to really say it’s saying that in the subtext

[trim grotto]

We can't disprove it but they're physically different and communicate differently, and the Leviathan is able to contain six Worm Gods
If it was a proto Worm, presumably it would be on a similar power level to Ahsa, who fled for her life, or have physical similarities

[worldly river]

In what way do they communicate differently?

[trim grotto]

One communicates by linking minds, the other through electromagnetic signals

[worldly river]

Worm Gods deviated as a species and they speak just fine normally, far as we can tell

[chrome fog]

Regardless there’s no clear evidence linking the Leviathan to the Worm Gods or Ahsa and the Protoworms

[worldly river]

Of course not

I just have a hard time believing there'd be two separate species of giant sea monster that can also traverse space that came into conflict with the Worm Gods
This is PURE SPECULATION but it makes too much sense for them to have been the same species and the Leviathan having been the victor of that whole conflict, therefore becoming their jailer
How? Who the fuck knows, that's too into the weeds for me to even want to theorize on

[trim grotto]

If the Leviathan was the same species as Ahsa, then I have no idea why it's physically different, or apparently able to contain six Worm Gods - it's supposed brethren in this theory - when Ahsa was fleeing for her life.

[worldly river]

I mean do we even have that detailed of a description of its appearance besides it being absolutely massive?

[chrome fog]

There’s very limited descriptions of the Leviathan, little enough that we do not know what it looks like or how it functions, which means we can’t conclude any similarities because of the lack of comparable features to begin with

[trim grotto]

Limited, but I'll grab it for you.

[worldly river]

If anything there's some very indirect implication from Calus that the Leviathan ship may be based on the form of the Fundamental Leviathan, and that's pretty similar to how Ahsa looks

[trim grotto]

And the Leviathan loomed over them, its brow as huge all the continents of their childhood, its great array-fins crackling with the lightning of its life. Booming into the hull of the needle ship in a microwave voice:
Microwave voice, crackling lightning across its fins

[trim grotto]

The Leviathan ship was based on creatures from Torobatl

Land creatures

[chrome fog]

The naming is coincidence

[worldly river]

Yeah but there's also an old line that says

This Leviathan. This prison ship. I will remake it, as I have been remade. No longer will it represent a mythical beast from the dreams of worms. It will serve as an icon for my newfound gluttony.

[trim grotto]

Not those Worms

[worldly river]

And yeah as you said, it's been made clear later it's based on the land creatures

[trim grotto]

Sand Worms

[jagged badge]

https://tenor.com/view/dune-villeneuve-sandworm-gif-27467812

[trim grotto]

Yes... thank you for your input, Eris

[worldly river]

I mean I haven't seen any indication of there being any "sand worms" outside the landwhale the Leviathan is most definitely based off

But I would notice the curious detail that it is depicted as worm like (Worm Gods) while being called a whale (as Ahsa is described)
But again, that's like reeeeally fuckin in the weeds

And I would certainly not say it holds any water

[chrome fog]

Similarly, what’s the evidence to a connection between the two Leviathans

[worldly river]

.

I don't wanna like, argue this for sure means anything

It's a single offhand line

I just meant it as a side comment like "Hey this is also a thing that was mentioned this one time that COULD circumstantially link things"

I mean hell both clear depictions of the landwhales have tiny legs anyway

[trim grotto]

🦵🦵🦵🦵

[chrome fog]

We need to have a name for moments like this specifically, we already have “lore moment” for other things

[shadow crypt]

Is Calus dead?

[trim grotto]

Do you really want to know? We have a whole campaign for this.

[shadow crypt]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

Yes, he's quite dead.

[shadow crypt]

also another question

what happens to raid bosses after we kill them?

do we just leave them there?

[trim grotto]

That depends on the boss, but yeah, usually.

Did you have one in mind?

[shadow crypt]

nah just asking in general

rhulk just went into pieces right?

[trim grotto]

Rhulk... rapidly solidified, and resonant tendrils burst from his corpse. Much like Calus and Nezarec and the Caretaker and other such powerful Resonance users.

[shadow crypt]

Oh okay

[safe galleon]

i recall rhulks remains seemingly had the ability to possess people they came into contact with. was that a 'resonance-death-tree-space-magic' thing, or a rhulk thing? in the same way that nez having a consciousness after death that can still interact with the world around him is a 'him' thing and not just a general thing the disciples can do

[dim minnow]

the whole tree/root stuff pertaining to Disciples has been left rather undefinded

[worldly river]

tbf yall kinda ran with something I made as an offhand comment and didn't actually intend as a "this is factual lore"

[worldly river]

Dunno if it's possession exactly but there was definitely some sort of hostile infection taking over the dude's body
But I don't think it's the same as Nezarec, cuz that ties more into the idea of Nezarec as this god of pain in various cultures, and in particular we know he was a prominent figure in Psion culture and they've got psychic powers so that's probably more related to that

[cedar stream]

is there any lore reason why the stasis cooldown is longer than the rest? arc, void, solar, strand?

[jagged badge]

You can stop now

[cedar stream]

thanks for explaining

[jagged badge]

Every time you’re in here, you’re asking “is there a lore reason” for something that is always, without fail, something just to do with gameplay

[cedar stream]

I hover my mouse to the “intellect” attribute it clearly says the cooldown is longer than the other sub classes

I want to know why

[jagged badge]

Because gameplay

Now stop trolling in here

[cedar stream]

that was last two weeks but thanks for the answer 🤷‍♂️

[slim elk]

In actual lore

Anyone else think the upcoming "wishes" are related to the ahamkara eggs hatching?

[peak coral]

the vow sparrow or another sparrow has this as lore tab

a guy transfers the remains of rhulk on sparrow

he crashes

he gets possessed by the remains

he shoots the sparrow and the area got nuked

[wheat flower]

Ahsa wasn't fleeing from the worm gods though so it's possible she's the same species as the leviathan but just way younger

Even the leviathan died to rhulk so it makes perfect sense for ahsa to be fleeing from rhulks boss

[trim grotto]

Uh, well, she was. She's a proto-Worm, as in the species that the Worm Gods were before they got corrupted and aggressive, which is what she was fleeing.

[trim grotto]

Also, the Leviathan didn't die to Rhulk.

It died to the combined efforts of the Hive and Worm Gods

Rhulk "simply" tore out a rib bone because he's wild like that

[fast tapir]

damn he just like me fr

[worldly river]

(It's also not anymore that's remnant text that hasn't been removed)

Iirc Ahsa wasn't fleeing the Worm Gods in particular so much as the conflict itself, but I might be remembering wrong

Not that it really matters

Speaking of, one of circumstantial dialogue bit potentially linking Ahsa to the Leviathan is that Sloane says Ahsa tried to stop the Hive from finding the "other Worms", presumably referring to the Worm Gods

Which is a bit odd actually, unless the Books of Sorrow left out some additional encounters or this was stuff the Worm Gods TOLD the Hive

[trim grotto]

I imagine that's more referring to what Calus described - Worm Gods in the deep hearts of other gas giants

Ominous concept

[worldly river]

Not familiar with that actually

But could be

[trim grotto]

It's from the LF CE

Great stuff

[worldly river]

Though even that's odd given there's been no other mention of additional ones outside the originals

"Tried" implies failure

[trim grotto]

I agree, yes
It is written as a bit of a... kind of like folklore? Remind me in half an hour when I'm at my PC, I'll show you.

[worldly river]

And if it was the case that the Books of Sorrow left out other beings guarding the Worm Gods, you'd expect Rhulk to have run into them and probably murdered the shit out of most or all of them

[trim grotto]

Everyone is absolutely silent. Absolutely still.

"—to go play in the grave-womb of the worms? Instead of being happy here, on the homeworld, in Torobatl, where she could share my joy?"```

[trim grotto]

Also, um - not to restart the same argument as yesterday, since I appreciate that you're looking at this from a different view, and I welcome that - but I honestly do not see any linkage here.

[trim grotto]

As for this? Who knows. Maybe Rhulk simply didn't know about them. The Witness and Rhulk aren't omnipotent, after all.

[trim grotto]

(if you ever think I'm being unfair, remind me I said this as a bit of a wakeup call)

[blazing wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/senator-armstrong-armstrong-metal-gear-rising-mgr-speech-bubble-gif-25397532

[worldly river]

The linkage simply being a shared objective of stopping beings, particularly the Krill or Hive, from meeting Worm Gods

Not to say that means Ahsa and the Leviathan are the same

Just that both are said to have done this in some capacity, though not necessarily the same context

[trim grotto]

Ah, sure.

[cedar stream]

ah i see, thanks for clarifying!

[oblique bane]

I have a theory. Would you guys believe that the Veil is the reason exos can become guardians?
Think abt Lakshmi and the veil containment experiments.

[blazing wasp]

I dont really see why there would be a special requirement for exos to be able to become guardians

or something like the veil being required for them to be guardians in the first place

[chrome fog]

Exos were Guardians before we even knew of the Veil, the only thing we know the Veil to be responsible for is that its connection with the Traveler allows one to travel to the Garden and fuck around with existence, nothing regarding guardians or ghosts

[ember storm]

the veil actively kills exos exposed to it

darkness can't resurrect guardians

it's exclusive to ghosts and their connection to the light

[empty fern]

Shit what I miss

[exotic cloak]

I know is a very specific questions but there are instances where we see supers in cinematics? Like actual guardians using them, I know there's that one of Cayde about to die and another of Ikora but no idea is there is something more

[tawdry mauve]

yes

theres a lot

[wheat flower]

Zavala uses bubble in the red war start cutscene

[empty fern]

There’s also an old one where Zavala uses arc fist (before the wall was built)

[exotic cloak]

Thanks

[shadow crypt]

What does it mean by crimson is a banned weapon?

Also are there any more “banned” weapons

[chrome fog]

It was used to permakill guardians

There’s a very similar auto rifle or smth in D1

[hollow zealot]

can warlocks be obese

[jagged badge]

Why are you asking this

[hollow zealot]

got bored

its urgent

[jagged badge]

It’s not

Don’t ask troll questions here

Or anywhere in this server

[hollow zealot]

i had 100% pure curiosity towards the question

pls answer it :(

[jagged badge]

Mhm sure

[chrome fog]

I mean.
Probably.
But the specification of obesity is sketchy

[hollow zealot]

that is a better answer then what this "eris, secret mod" person gave me

[chrome fog]

No Eris has the right idea

[hollow zealot]

true

i got called obese by a hunter

[chrome fog]

The question is not very… “enticing” to answer, could very much lead to really dumb arguments that don’t belong in the channel, as well as have some unsavory opinions shared

Guardians can have fat on them, there’s nothing really saying they all have to be lithe and muscle built, but “obesity” as in the medical condition of being overweight to the point it’s a health issue would be difficult to define in a Guardian’s case as the Light does assist in disease immunity to an extent (can’t remember where I’m getting that from but its somewhere for sure)

So perhaps an “obese” guardian could have all the fat which would warrant the diagnosis but with the Light it puts less of a strain on their life than it normally would; but this scenario is very out there in terms of Destiny theoreticals and can be somewhat problematic

[trim grotto]

I can't believe I'm answering this, but...
We haven't had any precedent for Guardians with that degree of, shall we say, loose weight.
That said, it's plausible. I'm not sure if resurrection from disintegration would affect it, but it's plausible.

[empty fern]

This would relate to “prime state of being” in a guardian right?

Yea

[shadow crypt]

What does that exactly mean?

Guardians killed other guardians with that weapon?

[empty fern]

Kills ghost I think?

And yea other guardians did have final deaths from that weapon (I think)

[chrome fog]

Kill the ghost and then kill the Guardian, yes

[empty fern]

Speaking of dying

[chrome fog]

Which, given it’s a hand canon with a three shot burst, that seems fairly plausible; even without a Guardian’s Light, a strong enough force like three hand canon shots or a Fallen blade can destroy a Ghost (and Guardians can encase their bullets in Light as they fire, Saladin has trained New Lights to do so)

[empty fern]

I’m gonna use the term “final death” more, salad man was cooking

[jagged badge]

[novel shoal]

🤔

[chrome fog]

He didn’t want and he didn’t even do so in the first place

He explicitly sacrificed himself to make it so that wouldn’t happen

Shooting down the Traveler was Clovis’ plan

Well initially

And then Seraph was about preventing the firing of all the Warsats to not give Xivu Arath enough tribute to open her Throneworld above the Last City

With the main dilemma being the Warsat system being useful for taking down hordes of enemies but still running the risk of giving tribute to Xivu

We tried for the longest time to get to the station and prevent Eramis and the Witness from accessing the Warsat controls but failed to do so in time, so Rasputin uploaded himself to initiate the self-destruct sequence and completely prevent the usage of the Warsats

[trim grotto]

That's still more of a theory than anything else but yes

For example, I have no idea if a Guardian would keep a tattoo if they got one post resurrection

[empty fern]

Who knows

Also

Here’s a hard one for you
Why did the dreadnaught have a pvp map called the dungeons, there’s fallen lying around, a death singer (model wise) crystallized and a light faded ghost

[trim grotto]

That's actually out of my field
D1 gameplay stuff isn't my forte

I'm a Dawn kid

@dim minnow might have more insight

[empty fern]

Damnit

[willow flax]

how did savathun predict everything in the two truths two lies game

[empty fern]

By the power of being vague and the concept of multiple interpretations
And maybe metaphors

[ember storm]

Zavala has those weird neck marks

[empty fern]

Oh yea, were these skulls? (Gotta be cabal related cause found on mars and near cabal shields in tower) suppose to be warbeast?

(Top right)

[ember storm]

ahamkara

[empty fern]

Neat

[ember storm]

war beasts were never in the solar system before the red war, Shaxx is famous for killing ahamkara and displaying their skulls

so they’re ahamkara

[empty fern]

Oh didn’t know the displaying part

And another thing

[ember storm]

it’s literally above him at all times

there’s multiple lore tab referring to it

[empty fern]

I haven’t read a single one

[ember storm]

Savathun routinely used it to mind control him

it’s the only reason he knows her song

[rich veldt]

im on the moon, its made of cheese

[ember storm]

I love the two implications of this

either one, this is how Shaxx’s brain interpreted viral hive chanting

or those are actually the exact words Savathun said

[rich veldt]

i hope option 2

[ember storm]

I wouldn’t put it past her

humdinger is in her regular vocabulary

[empty fern]

Gumshoe too right?

[ember storm]

I haven’t heard anything of that beyond the actual title

[empty fern]

Damn

May it forever be a title and a set

[rich veldt]

i forgot, whats the actual purpose of savus song

[ember storm]

worst gumshoe in gaming anyway

[ember storm]

exactly as she used it for

basic influence over people’s minds

[empty fern]

Savathun using her song for savathuning everything

[ember storm]

but it actually acted as a 2fer for generating imbaru because people realized Savathun had potentially been influencing the minds of thousands of people

everyone was freaking out about it and the Lost weapons are actually built to counteract it

but it never amounted to a massive plan

[rich veldt]

its definatley this option then

[ember storm]

which in itself was a massive plan

so imbaru

house always wins

[novel shoal]

splicer humming be like

[empty fern]

Savathun used the “moon is cheese” to generate imbaru
This is the canon answer

[ember storm]

actually in splicer it amounted to zealous chanting by a bunch of fascists being broadcast to the entire city daily

[rich veldt]

savus song is canon to star wars

[novel shoal]

which... could had been started by chanting those words in that tune

so yes

cheese song is cannon choice

[rich veldt]

shaxx probably sung it to some kids and kick started it

[ember storm]

sorry but I have to 🤓 here

[rich veldt]

[ember storm]

it originated in Lakshmi and her routine use of FWC machines that Savathun had direct influence over thanks to Quria

but it could still be the moon and cheese talking

just wouldn’t be thanks to Shaxx

[novel shoal]

well, the joke was correct with Shaxx singing

"Everything ends when he sings"

[empty fern]

[ember storm]

anyway

let’s talk about zavalas weird neck marks

[empty fern]

From his time as an apprentice to the iron lords right? We learned about it in haunted

[trim grotto]

yeah but i have no idea if it was pre or post resurrection

Orin had a tattoo but that was pre-resurrection
would one stay were she to have gotten it afterwards?

[frigid kiln]

Does the guardian we play as have a confirmed nationality or is it just implied they’re Russian (being resurrected in the cosmodrome and all)

[trim grotto]

No, and it isn't implied, given that we can also be Awoken (who only arrived on Earth post-Collapse, during the Dark Age).

[empty fern]

We can also choose the skin tone in the character in creation screen

[jagged badge]

That’s not necessarily anything to do with nationality

Especially in the Golden Age

[empty fern]

Right right, was thinking older

[chrome fog]

There’s also the fact the Guardian is rezzed in essentially a giant space airport, as the Cosmodrome area you wake up in was formerly a colony ship docking bay

And considering the Collapse occurred over a long period of time and at the time extraterrestrial colonization efforts were beginning to escalate - Exodus Green I believe was attempting to go beyond the heliopause, but aside from that SIVA had been developed as a colony construction tool - it wouldn’t be too far off to say people from across the world would be rushing to this space port

Also the car jam

You literally wake up in a dilapidated car jam

[ember storm]

how the fuck did you bring siva into this discussion

also you're just found in the middle of the highway not in a car

it's intentionally left ambiguous because there's not meant to be an answer

[versed orbit]

You mean the new subclass

Known as siva

[ember storm]

you can just as easily just have been some wanderer who ended up shot dead

the only two defined things are that our corpse ended up in that spot (doesn't confirm we actually died there) and that ghost claims we've been dead "a long time" which is nondescript

[chrome fog]

Next to a bunch of fucking cars Waltz, that's literally the first thung you walk past by

But also yes, you could be someone who was just exploring the area centuries past the Collapse

Which the comment on Awoken only being present post-Collapse already clarified; I was providing further clarification for human and exo guardians

[chrome fog]

SIVA is a very scary and powerful power tool, same as a drill or a jackhammer, but ultimately it's just tech. Nothing about it save for the fact the Devils used it as to majorly threaten the Last City and wipe out the Iron Lords indicates it's really that powerful a weapon; Fuck, the Quicksilver exotic has more powerful nanotech and that same advanced technology is integrated into the Cloudstriders.
SIVA is not going to be a subclass

[ember storm]

pretty sure that was a joke

[chrome fog]

My brained is a slurrrur beca flu

[versed orbit]

Not reading that mate

[ember storm]

% should be way lower

[chrome fog]

3.9% are abandoned accounts probably

[light stratus]

Are scroon dead fallen

[jagged badge]

Yes. The Scorn are Eliksni who have been risen by Dark Ether due to Uldren’s wish on Fikrul and, I believe, Variks’ further experiments

[light stratus]

So can both be taken

[jagged badge]

We’ve never seen Taken Scorn so probably not

Taken Screeb 😦

[light stratus]

What about the fallen

[jagged badge]

Plenty of Taken Fallen

Taken Vandals and Captains and various bosses too

[chrome fog]

A Taken Scorn would most likely just be the same as a Taken Eliksni

[ember storm]

taken need to be alive

scorn are reanimated corpses so probably not

[light stratus]

Fair enough

[wheat flower]

Fallen are the only faction not to have their most basic unit be taken

#DregsBeatOryx

[jagged badge]

Do they?

What about that raid boss turned Taken in Salvage?

[ember storm]

it is explicitly mentioned in D1, and yes

[ember storm]

there’s been multiple cases of hive resurrection being used to then procure taken soldiers

namely within the Whisper mission

[jagged badge]

Oh huh

[ember storm]

also it wasn’t a raid boss

it was just strike bosses

that and I think a Venus mission actually

anyway it’s the same reason you don’t see taken machines or anything

they’re not alive

it’s the reason why wrathborn are arguably worse

it mutates out of control and infects technology

[jagged badge]

Val Ca’uor

Raid boss, no?

[empty fern]

From mini raid?

[jagged badge]

I dunno, I never played it

[fast tapir]

yes

he was in spire of stars

leviathan

bungie reused him for seasonal content 😔

[jagged badge]

Well, kinda

They didn’t use Val’s model

Just his name

[dim minnow]

so I guess now we can say that the Wall of Wishes lore book is the one that took the longest to complete

at first it was Truth to Power which took 33 weeks

then it was Dawning Delights which took about a year (this is because additional entries were added in the following Dawning)

and now Wall of Wishes which took around 5 years

[empty fern]

Damn

[acoustic cedar]

Are we basically going back in time with final shape expansion?

[trim grotto]

No.

[gentle geyser]

We are heading into the traveler and the destination will be a combination of memories and locations from our past adventures and locations corrupted by the witness

[acoustic cedar]

pale of heart or something

i wanan see cayde again

[trim grotto]

Pale Heart. The heart of the Traveler.

[acoustic cedar]

nice. can't wait for it. excited

[clear knot]

Let me ask a really stupid question.

Having all but finished lightfall, and just finished beyond light...

Strand and Stasis are darkness energy, and cryo, solar, and arc are light energy?

[dim minnow]

Strand and Stasis are Darkness elements

Arc, Solar, and Void are Light elements

[clear knot]

Okay. And the Vanguard doesn't like it (thematically) when you use darkness, as darkness is the enemy...

So why do they keep the guardian in the Vanguard after using darkness twice (Strand and Stasis)?

[gentle geyser]

Because of the events of beyond light and everything we learned in that dlc

[trim grotto]

They got over it, in short.

[gentle geyser]

Darkness isn’t inherently evil and light isn’t inherently good

They are tools

[dim minnow]

as of BL, official stance was no Stasis, but it didn't take long for the Vanguard to pretty much allow the use of Darkness

[clear knot]

Okay. And I'm assuming it is anachronistic to use Strand as my subclass through BL?

[trim grotto]

Correct
LF happened some years after BL

[dim minnow]

no idea what anachronistic means but I assume you are asking me we don't use Strand at all lore-wise throughout BL

lore-wise, we do not get Strand until like 2 years after BL

[trim grotto]

Chronological refers to a linear period of events in time
Anachronistic refers to time periods being wibbly wobbly

In this case, out of order, belonging to the future

[clear knot]

Anachronistic basically means of the wrong time Era. Like an barret 50 cal in WW1

So basically me doing the campaigns as I want makes me see the timeline wrong?

[gentle geyser]

Yes

The campaigns are in order of release

So currently shadowkeep beyond light witch queen then lightfall

[clear knot]

Where is forsaken?

Trials of Osiris?

[dim minnow]

before Shadowkeep

so here's basically how it goes in release order

Destiny 1
The Dark Below
House of Wolves
The Taken King
Rise of Iron

then

Destiny 2
Curse of Osiris (the award winning expansion)
Warmind
Forsaken and the Annual Pass
Forge - Drifter - Opulence
Shadowkeep and its seasons (next row from left to right)
Undying - Dawn - Worthy - Arrivals
Beyond Light and its seasons
Hunt - Chosen - Splicer - Lost
Witch Queen and its seasons
Risen - Haunted - Plunder - Seraph
Lightfall and its seasons
Defiance - Deep - Witch - Wish (we are here)
and The Final Shape and its episodes
Echoes - Revenant - Heresy
anything after this point hasn't been revealed yet

[clear knot]

Okay. Also, can't there only be one player character? Yes there are dozens/hundreds of guardians, but how do you explain all 10,000 player characters all doing everything across Destiny and D2?

Not trying to fight, just curious since the lore is deep

[dim minnow]

canonically, you are the main character, any other guardian you encounter is just a regular guardian

[trim grotto]

There are thousands of Guardians.

Far more than dozens

There's a very relevant entry but unfortunately I'm at work and can't fetch it for you
Remind me in two or three hours and I can though

[clear knot]

I hope I'm not insulting anyone...

[trim grotto]

Not at all
I adore discussing lore
I'm just a bit laconic right now as I'm busy elsewhere

[clear knot]

So why do the Vex seem to show up everywhere? Europa, Neptune... everywhere!

[ember storm]

well the end goal of the vex is to assimilate the entire universe

but vex were given direct access to Europa thanks to Clovis Bray

[dim minnow]

Europa - Clovis brought a captured Vex he stole from Ishtar there and let it start building stuff
Neptune - The Vex were attracted to the paracausal nature of the Veil
Pretty much anywhere else we can assume that they were there for a very long time and they just ended up there on their own

[shadow crypt]

Was the game boring at any point of time?

No seasons before shadowkeep must have been tedious lol

[ember storm]

the game is still variably boring with seasons

[dim minnow]

oh right I forgot

Forsaken kind of had seasons

the annual pass

[ember storm]

pretty sure its the main reason theyre trying episodes

[dim minnow]

Forsaken - Forge (Black Armory) - Drifter (Joker's Wild) - Opulence (Penumbra)

then Shadowkeep

[shadow crypt]

What about Curse of Osiris and Warmind?

[dim minnow]

they take place between Destiny 2 (Red War) and Forsaken

[willow flax]

why have we never seen actual vex military other than a wyvern?

[dim minnow]

few possibilities

[shadow crypt]

Any seasons or something like that?

[dim minnow]

1. Vex don't think that sort of way so they don't actually exist
2. Vex are deliberately keeping them from us to either reveal them at an advantangeous time
3. Vex foresee that utilizing them won't work so there is no point in using them

[dim minnow]

no

[shadow crypt]

Is there a leader for the vex rn?

[dim minnow]

not really

[shadow crypt]

Sorry that’s a stupid question

[dim minnow]

most we got are leaders for specific Vex plots like Atheon for the VoG, Panoptes for the Infinite Forest, etc.

as far as we know there isn't a leading central Vex mind out there

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

what about the other races in the game?

not exactly right?

[dim minnow]

they're splintered off in their own groups mostly

but I can list them off

Hive:
Lucent Brood - Under Savathun's command
Hidden Swarm and most non-Lucent Brood - Under Xivu Arath's command

Cabal:
Shadow Legion (formerly Loyalists) - Under Calus's command
Cabal Empire - Under Caiatl's command

Fallen:
House of Dusk - Unknown (likely nonexistent)
House of Light - Under Mithrax's leadership
House of Salvation/Old Crews (what's left of them) - Under Eramis' command

Vex:
Sol Divisive - Under the Witness' Command
All other Vex - Unspecified (possibly under command by something more abstract)

Scorn:
Tan helmet Scorn - Under Fikrul's command
Purple (and tan in certain cases) helmet Scorn - Under the Witness' command

Misc.:
Wrathborn - Under Xivu Arath's command
Taken - Under the Witness' command (mostly)

important to note that Shadow Legion and Xivu's Broods/Wrathborn are all under the Witness' command by Proxy

with Scorn it can be a little confusing at times when figuring out who they are working under

[shadow crypt]

Isn’t Calus dead?

[dim minnow]

well yeah

so now they are under sole command of the Witness

[shadow crypt]

Along with savathun and eramis

Oh

[dim minnow]

Savathun is back now actually

and Eramis isn't dead, she is just leaving Sol

[shadow crypt]

Could you summarize how savuthun is back?

[dim minnow]

for a while, when Savathun was dead, Immaru was the one leading the Lucent Brood

[shadow crypt]

Sorry

[dim minnow]

for starters, she is a Lightbearer like us

and Immaru is her Ghost

at the end of Witch Queen, we kill her and keep her body locked away

then at the start of Witch (last season) we take part in a deal she arranged prior

where we had to deal with Xivu Arath and in exchange, Immaru will ressurect her so she can tell us how to follow the Witness through the triangle portal

in the end, Eris convinces Immaru to rez Savathun early so she can kill her and gain enough power through Sword Logic to sever Xivu Arath from her Throne World thus fulfilling our end of the deal

in the end, Savathun leaves Immaru with us as collateral and she leads us to discover the Last Wish which is what directly leads to the current season

[shadow crypt]

Wait who did Eris kill?

Savathun?

[dim minnow]

yes

Eris killed Savathun and took in all the power that the latter had saved up

of course, it is worth noting that the exertion of power Eris had to do right after caused her to essentially give up whatever power she gained while Savathun lost none fo hers

[shadow crypt]

so if eris killed savathun

how is she back

sorry I do not understand at all

[dim minnow]

again, Savathun is a Lightbearer

Immaru is her Ghost

Eris killed Savathun, but Immaru was left alone

[shadow crypt]

Ohh

So immaru can res her

[dim minnow]

yes

[shadow crypt]

so now is savathun an ally of ours or like neutral?

[acoustic cedar]

I like Petra

[dim minnow]

eh

more like we had an aligned interest at the time

[shadow crypt]

so kind of like frenemies?

Also she’s against the witness like us right?

[dim minnow]

just enemies but with nothing to gain if we attack each other

[dim minnow]

yes

[acoustic cedar]

It’s basically like what Mora has with the dragon thingy at the end of last wish season

[shadow crypt]

Riven right

or it’s spirit

[acoustic cedar]

Yea

[dim minnow]

Mara's relationship with Riven is a lot more complicated than that really

[shadow crypt]

Dovadah

Quick question

[acoustic cedar]

It seem like they both left off on a good note tho. After crow left to pale heart

[shadow crypt]

How did savathun become a lightbearer?

From when she impersonated Osiris?

and like stole the light or whatever

[acoustic cedar]

Osiris. The grumpy old man

[dim minnow]

she died right after the end of Season of the Lost and was rezzed by Immaru soon after

she basically had it all arranged

and somehow she knew Immaru would be able to rez her

[acoustic cedar]

It’s been a minute from Forsaken. But how did crow turn good again? Still hate him for killing Cayde

[ember storm]

crow didnt exist in forsaken

uldren died

[acoustic cedar]

Ain’t that him?

[ember storm]

crow was revived as a guardian

new life new person

[dim minnow]

as for how Ghosts can rez Hive anyhow, the explanation we have is that they were always able to, it was just that none of them really went for it until Savathun manipulated a bunch of Ghosts into it

[shadow crypt]

Didn’t she “die” in the WQ campaign?

[ember storm]

savathun is one of the only lightbearers to fully adopt her previous persona and completely abandon her new life as a fresh rez

[dim minnow]

ok, before we go any further, I should explain how becoming a guardian works

[ember storm]

ana bray also sort of does this but it's not really the same situation

[acoustic cedar]

Yes pls

[dim minnow]

so, let's make up some guy in the Destiny universe

[acoustic cedar]

Me

[dim minnow]

let's call hum John Bungie

so John Bungie dies a painful, excruciating death

and his heavily mutilated corpse is left lying somewhere to be forgotten

then, an arbitrary amount of time passes (could be a few seconds to a few centuries the amount of time passing amkes little difference)

[chrome fog]

Sorry Mael it’s 2-3 hours

[dim minnow]

and a Ghost finds John Bungie's remains and ressurects him

[chrome fog]

Also sorry I’m catching up

[trim grotto]

True
But I've got to drive home and buy bread kn the way first
Also get a cup of tea

[dim minnow]

when John Bungie is rezzed for the first time by a Ghost, all memories of his past life are gone

he is essentially a blank slate

[acoustic cedar]

Resurrects as in “oh I’m alive again” or “who am I, where am I?”

[dim minnow]

latter

but that is only for the first rez

[acoustic cedar]

Ah okay. So a new person.

[shadow crypt]

Ah I see

[dim minnow]

every subsequent rez after the first does not take away your memories

[shadow crypt]

and he wasn’t a guardian before he died right?

[dim minnow]

correct

[acoustic cedar]

So than. Mora was the first guardian?

[chrome fog]

Gl soldier

[trim grotto]

Correct
Though there's a mixture of nature and nurture
Experience shapes a person but there's still a core kernel of who you are
Hence why Crow was, despite (originally) having no memories, was still somewhat like Uldren.

[dim minnow]

first, it is Mara, second, she isn't a guaridan

[chrome fog]

Oooo I need to search up that summary of the story up to Lightfall I did

As something handy for the ones asking about lore

[acoustic cedar]

What is she? Other than a queen

[dim minnow]

the Awoken Queen

[shadow crypt]

Awoken

[dim minnow]

and the first Awoken

[trim grotto]

Anyway I'm off home
Have fun kids

[chrome fog]

Byeeeee Maaaeeel

[acoustic cedar]

Any other awoken?

[shadow crypt]

let me get this straight

[dim minnow]

they're an entire race

[shadow crypt]

so uldren is Mara’s brother

he died

[dim minnow]

Zavala is one, Uldren/Crow is one

[shadow crypt]

then a ghost rezzed him

now he’s crow

[acoustic cedar]

Oh. The blue skin people

[dim minnow]

Mara though is unique since she was first

[shadow crypt]

and he doesn’t remember his past life

[dim minnow]

it pretty much allowed her to create the rest of the Awoken in her own image

[acoustic cedar]

Was uldren Always corrupt from the beginning?

[shadow crypt]

uldren?

[dim minnow]

and she gain potent mental powers when she first arrived in the Reef

[acoustic cedar]

Auto correct yea

[dim minnow]

he got corrupted by Darkness at the start of the Taken King story

[acoustic cedar]

Oh yea that’s right

[dim minnow]

specifcally after Oryx destroyed the Awoken fleet and killed Mara at the Battle of Saturn

[shadow crypt]

Didn’t the traveler create ghosts?

[dim minnow]

and before you ask, Mara came back from the dead for entirely different reasons

[shadow crypt]

Why did they work for the hive?

[dim minnow]

it did, all Ghosts that ever existed were created by the Traveler at the end of the Collapse

[dim minnow]

Savathun manipulated a bunch of them into it

[acoustic cedar]

If a ghost is destroyed. The guardian is lost forever?

[dim minnow]

if the Ghost is destroyed, then a Guardian loses their Light and thus can't be rezzed any more

[acoustic cedar]

Rip

[dim minnow]

alternatively, a guardian can be drained of their Light then killed

[shadow crypt]

even if another ghost comes to rez them they won’t come back?

[dim minnow]

like say if they were killed by someone using Thorn

[dim minnow]

correct

Ghosts can't just pair up with anyone

and as far as we know, you only get one Ghost

[acoustic cedar]

So if Osiris dies. That’s it

[shadow crypt]

if his ghost dies

I think that’s it

[acoustic cedar]

Thought his ghost was destroyed tho

[dim minnow]

his Ghost is already dead

[acoustic cedar]

Ye

[dim minnow]

if Osiris dies, he dead for good

[shadow crypt]

Oh the one in the wq mission?

[dim minnow]

Sagira

[shadow crypt]

Sagira?

Yea

[chrome fog]

Yargh i got it
#📚lore-discussion message

[shadow crypt]

Didn’t savathun impersonate osiris and gain the power of the light or something like that?

[chrome fog]

In addition to the Dreadnaught blast, Uldren spent some time scouting the Black Garden, so exposure to the Black Heart - a massive relic of Darkness - corrupted him too

[dim minnow]

she did impersonate Osiris for a while

while doing so, she was guiding us towards making allies while also learning our secrets

[shadow crypt]

Is there a timeframe for when she started?

[dim minnow]

from the start of Season of the Hunt to the start of Season of the Lost

was how long she impersonated Osiris for

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

So where or what was osiris doing when that was happening?

[dim minnow]

being puppeted by Savathun

[chrome fog]

It was two birds with one stone: 1) it allowed her to learn the secrets of the Vanguard and get more information on the Light for consideration to abandoning her Worm; and 2) her knowing more things and tricking more people generated tithe to her due to her nature as a Hive God of Cunning/Secrets, just as regular Huve generate and gain tithe through violence, she gets tithe through cunning

We know she realized the parasitic nature of the Worms even with the benefit of Ascendent power that they provided access to, as she asks Oryx in the Books of Sorrow if they should consider an alternative to the way Hive culture had been developed into

[shadow crypt]

how did osiris even get caught or puppeted by her?

[shadow crypt]

Thanks for the insight

[chrome fog]

Xivu Arath’s High Celebrant killed Sagira - Osiris’ Ghost - so she took advantage of him whilst he was in grief and shock

[dim minnow]

tecnically Sagira killed herself

[chrome fog]

Unfortunately the death was off-screen, but that’s the inciting incident of Season of the Hunt, the first season of Beyond Light

[dim minnow]

she blew herself up to clear the area of Xivu's overwhelming presence

[shadow crypt]

crown of sorrow controls the hive right

and calus didn’t want to put it on

[chrome fog]

Specifically Savathun’s old brood

[shadow crypt]

so gahlran did or whatever

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

[chrome fog]

Which idk if they were different from the Lucent Hive

Essentially, yeah

[dim minnow]

Calus was interested in the Crown since he discovered it was a sort of two-way seeing device

[chrome fog]

Yes, Calus vat grew Gahlran for the purpose of controlling the Crown of Sorrow to try and get around the safety measure it had

[acoustic cedar]

Who is Nazarec? Or something

[dim minnow]

but when it was worn by Gahlran, it overwrote Gahlran's mind and put who we assume to be Savathun in control over him

[shadow crypt]

Calus vat?

Ah I see

[dim minnow]

Calus has a cloning facility

[chrome fog]

Vat grew, he uses cloning technology frequently

A good portion of his Shadow Legion is also clones, which is weird since the Leviathan had become overgrown with Egregore back in Haunted

[shadow crypt]

He did his cloning stuff on the leviathan?

[chrome fog]

Which was all a part of his attempt to harness the Lunar Pyramid’s power

[chrome fog]

The Leviathan was actually a prison ship meant to house him in his exile but he took it over and turned it into the pleasure cruise we know it as

[acoustic cedar]

Is the witness a new foe for season of the wish?

Oops I meant

[chrome fog]

Nezarec, God of Pain, has died many deaths, seemingly has control of Light and Darkness Paracausality; we don’t know that much actually

[acoustic cedar]

For the new campaign

[chrome fog]

Yes

Specifically this is the campaign to take them out

[acoustic cedar]

Dang. I was doing the new missions. And at the end, the weird voices said he was Nazarec

[shadow crypt]

caiatal isn’t a clone right?

[chrome fog]

They’ve been the overarching enemy of the entire franchise, their will pushed through the Darkness giving it the corruptive properties which warded us away from its use

[chrome fog]

Nope, she’s natural born; Calus neglected the shit out of her though

[acoustic cedar]

Which campaign do we fight him or interact with him more? I played all except for witch something

[chrome fog]

None of them really but also kinda all of them; every enemy we’ve fought save for the Eliksni/Fallen factions (save for Salvation), the Cabal (save for Calus’ shadow legion and Loyalists during Haunted), and the Vex (save for Sol Divisive) were manipulated by the Witness to further its own goals

Directly? We’ve never faced off against them

It is only in this past year during Season of the Deep that we learn their backstory

[acoustic cedar]

dang. sounds like we getting new enemies later than. Pretty sure Nazarec and The Witness are working together

[chrome fog]

Plus, the Lightfall opening cutscene demonstrates why it’s not possible to approach them directly when attacking

[chrome fog]

Nezarec is one of their Disciples

Same as Rhulk

[acoustic cedar]

so he is below The Witness?

dang

[chrome fog]

He works for the Witness

Yes

[acoustic cedar]

what info do we have on The Witness, other than a god?

[shadow crypt]

the witness is a bunch of people combined not just one person right

that’s why you see all the floating heads I’m assuming

[acoustic cedar]

for real?

[shadow crypt]

I mean I’m not sure

That’s what I got from the cutscene

[chrome fog]

https://youtu.be/Z0CKckjryVI?si=yM-SJOff9tmWMe2V

Yes

They discover the Darkness after studying all the potential of Light and asking the Traveler for a purpose in life but being met with silence

[acoustic cedar]

got me thinking now, are Tormentors a special race serving The Witness

[chrome fog]

They’re a collaborative effort between Calus and the Witness, which presumably means they’re made using remnants of Nezarec’s being and Calus’ cloning technology

[acoustic cedar]

Ah. That makes sense than

[shadow crypt]

That’s interesting

One thing that never gets boring with destiny is its lore

[chrome fog]

This is supported by a number of Tormentors having titles related to Nezarec as well as the visual similarity and the only way Calus could’ve contributed, as well as the fact we spent Season of Plunder collecting pieces of Nezarec before the Witness’ forces - which included Eramis’ collective of the Old Eliksni Pirate Crews - could get them

[acoustic cedar]

getting from this, I thought the veil was bespoke to neptune people. Didn't know it was that ancient

[chrome fog]

Leading up to Lightfall a lot of given descriptions of the Veil related it to the Traveler

[acoustic cedar]

also why he told calus why he fails is because he doesn't pursue a purpose therefore his downfall

[chrome fog]

He did pursue a purpose

His own vanity

[acoustic cedar]

He was afraid of one no?

"Infinite Apologies"

[chrome fog]

No he just wanted to have the universe revolve around him and to live in excess hedonism

[chrome fog]

That was because the Witness scolded him to get off his ass and do his job as a disciple

[acoustic cedar]

Honestly Crazy Universe Horse > Calus. anyday

[chrome fog]

Starhorse is Bungie

[acoustic cedar]

riches wise

[chrome fog]

And Dares is canonically uncanon

[shadow crypt]

Nezarec is a disciple right?

[chrome fog]

Yes

[shadow crypt]

rhulk and Calus too

[acoustic cedar]

I guess he leads the Fallen? like Calus leads the Cabal

[shadow crypt]

do we only know of 3 disciples?

[chrome fog]

Disciples themselves being notable individuals the Witness recruits specifically because it believes they can serve a purpose beneficial to its goals

[acoustic cedar]

gonnna see who rhulk again

[chrome fog]

Eliksni are their own thing

Actually, it’s stated Psions used to worship Nezarec

[acoustic cedar]

Oh. we haven't seen that yet than right?

[shadow crypt]

so far where we are in the story have we only seen 3 disciples so far?

[acoustic cedar]

nvm we have

[chrome fog]

They were not approached by the Witness for any discipleship no, they were unfortunate victims of the Witness and its efforts

[chrome fog]

Yes

[shadow crypt]

can the traveler like talk to us?

Ik the traveler had a speaker

I mean

[chrome fog]

She speaks through visions

Generally in some sort of animal form

She spoke to Clovis as a wolf to warm him against listening to the Clarity pyramid statue

[acoustic cedar]

I think I meant to say the Taken

I meant to say Nazarec leads the Taken.

[shadow crypt]

So the speaker knew everything she was saying?

Why don’t we have another speaker?

[chrome fog]

Not really necessary, plus the last one hadn’t really received any visions from the Traveler

Last time she interacted with us she guided us on the Hawkmoon exotic mission

As a hawk

[shadow crypt]

any lore of the travelers origin?

[chrome fog]

A handy gun

[shadow crypt]

hawkmoon?

[chrome fog]

Used to be the starting weapon for Red War, then they made an exotic version and then removed the regular versions of Traveler’s Chose

Oh wait

Like

Her origin

I thought you meant the gun Traveler’s Chosen

[shadow crypt]

Oh no lol

I researched and it’s said that her origins are unknown

[chrome fog]

We have Unveiling, but we can’t take it for truth at face value

However, some entries outside of Unveiling back up info we do get

The Traveler was once the Gardener, a sort of cultivator God who oversaw the Garden, in which Flowers (stand-in for individual living beings) grew

[shadow crypt]

The Garden?

[chrome fog]

That much is the most we can confirm

[shadow crypt]

Oh alr

[ember storm]

no

the thing you're misunderstanding is disciples being leaders

they're not

they have their specific individual quirks that the witness intentionally decided to make use of

[chrome fog]

Moreso the Witness’ personal hit squad

[ember storm]

the witness itself makes and controls taken

[shadow crypt]

The garden as in the black garden?

or something else

[ember storm]

Unveiling, which is being quoted, is largely a metaphor

[chrome fog]

Black Garden is a simulated replica of the original Garden

[ember storm]

it's not 1:1 with reality

and also large parts of it might just not be true at all

it's ultimately propaganda being delivered by the witness

[chrome fog]

With truth sprinkled in to make it more believable

The Garden is existence, basically

Within the context of the metaphor

[ember storm]

moreso i think it's just the witness/the civilization it used to be's interpretation of events

i don't think it's purposefully lying about it

some of it just isn't correct

basically just darkness bible

[chrome fog]

I think the same but it’s purposefully doing so in the way nihilists and pessimists purposefully point out how depressing something is

[ember storm]

i mean yeah it's still ultimately manipulation

[chrome fog]

Which the Witness is a big bag of dumb emo amvs

[ember storm]

but the witness never flat out lies

it deceives

but nothing is directly false

[chrome fog]

Very blatant representation of Nihilistic thought but as something we can probably fight

[ember storm]

the god wave was a thing that was going to wipe out fundament, but the traveler wouldn't be the direct cause

[chrome fog]

Waltz you may need to explain the God Wave to them

And early Hive history

[ember storm]

essentially, before the hive were the hive, they were a weak race living on a gas giant called fundament

there were also many races and fudament had lots of moons, one of which just being the traveler that showed up there at one point

through a series of conflict and manipulation the three daughters of the osmium king, the proto-hive leader, ventured to the depths of the planet at the warning of a "god wave", which was said to be caused by a specific moon (the traveler) arriving

in actuality this was all set up by the witness in order to transform the proto-hive into a race of self-sustaining destruction for the sake of making things easier

[chrome fog]

(Also a civil war was breaking out because the Osmium King was being gaslit by a Worm familiar saying shit; this same familiar directed the daughters to the depths)

[ember storm]

the god wave wasn't a lie, it was just a veiled threat that spurred the sisters into action and making pacts with the worm gods imprisoned within fundament, thus becoming the three main hive gods

also oryx is trans

all in all the hive got played and deserved everything

you shouldn't be trusting the words out of a self proclaimed "honest worm" because it's either a bold-faced liar, or every other worm you've encountered would be a liar which is also bad

[trim grotto]

howdy friends
i'm home
what'd i miss

[chrome fog]

The God Wave was also mostly the Witness’ doing, as the Traveler would prevent herself from causing gravitational influence

[chrome fog]

Just a lot of lore summary really

Nothing much

[ember storm]

trans god king taker of will first navigator harrowed god primogenitor of possibilities

[trim grotto]

the usual then

[ember storm]

bungie are still cowards for not putting oryx in the national coming out day post

[shadow crypt]

Xivu is still our enemy right?

No common ground whatsoever

[ember storm]

savathun is still our enemy

we were just forced into a momentary negotiation

if we had the time and resources to get rid of her we would have

[chrome fog]

Also zick, N0VA, mael is one of more knowledgeable lore people here, you’ve also met Dova and Waltz here as well and are the most reliable sources on lore in the server (though we’re still very prone to human error and just. Not having read some lore entries)

[trim grotto]

[ember storm]

lore chat if being nerds was a full time job

[shadow crypt]

Got it thanks 👍

[chrome fog]

Anyways batting to you mael busy walking dog byyyeeeeee

[dim minnow]

she always has been

[scarlet turtle]

is the fifteenth wish our wish to open the pathway shown on savathun's wing?

[chrome fog]

Yes

However

At the end of the current season’s story, we learn that ||it only allows one person through the portal||

[dim minnow]

and it isn't our wish, it is Savathun's

[dim minnow]

hard to determine

we don't have full info on either

grantd we have more for Rhulk

[trim grotto]

There's no answer we can be accurate with. There's simply not enough information, and furthermore, it'd be heavily dependant on context.

[frigid sparrow]

Nezarec imprints thousands of rhulk kicking memes into his mind, causing him to go insane. Nez wins

(realistically though the debate kind of operates on how we view nez at "full power." Savathuns was able to physically kill him, whereas with rhulk she had him locked up, though I don't know if she would be capable of killing him here or not. However, nez during the raid arguably still isn't full power, as he's just regrown his body and become a being if light and dark. He hasn't really had a chance to test how this could affect his abilities, and a "full power" nez likely doesn't exist- because we took care of him before he could achieve that)

[jagged badge]

The Savathûn who killed Nezarec and the Savathûn who imprisoned Rhulk are different

Savathûn imprisoned Rhulk after her resurrection in the Light

Meaning she did not at that time have access to the power of her worm like she would have when she killed Nezarec

[sick yew]

Huh really?

What was the bro doing before that time

The couple hundred or so years

[frigid sparrow]

Telling on her to the witness

[dim minnow]

forced to sit in Savathun's Throne world to pretty much babysit her

[frigid sparrow]

Fair point, I didn't consider savathuns power pre and post revival

[sick yew]

And he just didnt feel like going out into the world and fucking some shit up himself?

[dim minnow]

he couldn't, Witness' orders

[sick yew]

Damn

Poor bro

[jagged badge]

Yeah, he fucked up with the Ahslids so the Witness grounded him

[dim minnow]

and keep in mind that everything that happened from Savathun's original death to the start of WQ happened in most likely the span of a week or less

since the Exorcism was on the last week of Lost

[sick yew]

Yeah im more on about the hundreds of years between the collapse and when we actually kicked Rhulks ass

Bro was just hanging in the Pyramid doing a whole bunch of nothing cause Witness angy at him

Didnt seem like theres much to do for him

[dim minnow]

I suppose at that point the Witness saw Rhulk as more of a liability

after all, he had the subtlety of a brick

[sick yew]

I currently imagine Rhulk and Savy playing chess with like one turn every century and she just straight up cheats cause what else is she gonna do

[frigid sparrow]

Savvy makes extra turns while he's not looking and Rhulk eats the pieces when she isn't looking

[dim minnow]

relegated to worm factory manager

[sick yew]

He tries to like make new pieces by combining them

[blazing wasp]

rhulk does a wipe mechanic on the queen

[sick yew]

This might be a perfect dynamic

Should be one of those "draw your comfort characters in this dynamic" thingies

[frigid sparrow]

I would if I could draw

[sick yew]

Same

[dim minnow]

"We think we're gonna have to kill this guy Pomni" - The Witness

[sick yew]

Like the touch that you used "we"

[frigid sparrow]

How does the amazing digital circus fit into the lore of destiny

[sick yew]

Chapter 1
The Jerma theory

[trim grotto]

the Vex Network, of course

[frigid sparrow]

We need byf on these important topics now

[trim grotto]

[sick yew]

Nah get the guy who keeps animating these drawing style cutscenes

[dim minnow]

there is a picture of the Witness telling Pomni that they need to "kill this guy"

[frigid sparrow]

Terminal overloads are just the vex trying to change the neomunan YouTube videos

[frigid sparrow]

I think I've seen that one

[sick yew]

Trying to manipulate the Neomuna stock market

[jagged badge]

Neomuni, btw

[frigid sparrow]

FUCK

[blazing wasp]

Neofrommatrix

[chrome fog]

Paraverse shenanigans baybeereeee

Mornin

I just woke up

[thorny sequoia]

Just found out there's a last archive in Veil Containment

[jagged badge]

Yeah. One at the start of last season and one at the start of this season too

[keen oracle]

Does this effectively confirm xivu arath has wings like her brother and sister?

[chrome fog]

Eh

not really

[ember storm]

not really since that’s more like a cape also that’s just imagery

[chrome fog]

We did get a good look at her form back in Witch and maybe this season? But definitely witch during one of the cutscenes

[keen oracle]

True but bungie can always possibly change her design in the future

[chrome fog]

And?

Regardless of any changes they might make as of rn that's the best look at Xivu's physical form we have rn

[ember storm]

I honestly don’t think they’d make the third hive god in a row fly around with wings

she’s the quintessential knight of the hive, she’s just going to sprint at us and cleave

[empty fern]

Plot twist

She’ll be the super old cutscene crota

https://tenor.com/view/the-emperor-disciples_oryx-gif-25555392

The one before the green ascendant

[outer dragon]

That's just lazy

[empty fern]

Wait did shiro use trespasser? Or was it just an ornament name

[chrome fog]

Ornaments are not canon I don't believe

[chrome fog]

I want tassle wings, like they come down vertically from the back of her shoulder and just droop down. That'd be cool

[jagged badge]

Depends

[trim grotto]

Trespasser is Shiro-4’s personal sidearm, kit-bashed over the uncounted cycles Shiro-4 spent braving the wilds beyond the City. This light, quick-fire shooter has ended more conversations than it has started. And will end many more before the last war is won.

[chrome fog]

Explains the funny laser pointer

[empty fern]

Kek

[foggy bane]

Exo-Stranger is Ana Bray from a different reality right?

[empty fern]

Nope