#📚lore-discussion

1 messages ¡ Page 55 of 1

empty fern
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Yep, they are indeed geh

dim minnow
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how funny would it be if Mara was secretly working for the Witness this entire time

outer dragon
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Yes, has been offical since season of the Dawn

empty fern
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Same as Marc and Marc’s man the marksman

dim minnow
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the eerie music originated from Pyramid stuff

outer dragon
empty fern
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Oh yea

empty fern
dim minnow
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like maybe the Witness was whispering in Mara's ear telling her "help us figure out what tf that Bitch Queen did"

dim minnow
outer dragon
empty fern
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Back to forsaken?

dim minnow
empty fern
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Nope

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Was it the royal pools place in oobs?

dim minnow
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in the last one (or second to last if you take Truth to Power to account), Mara leaves the Queen's Court and we don't see her again until Season of the Lost

empty fern
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Or the wq one

dim minnow
empty fern
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Oh that one

pure tree
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I remember reading from somewhere where Mara sees her family as a mirror of the osmium dynasty or smth, like she and savathun, and uldren and oryx, but if that indeed happened in the lore and I'm not going schizo mode, who would have been analogous to Xivu?

empty fern
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Wait what

pure tree
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Sjur Eido?

dim minnow
empty fern
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Oh that’s a weird spot, never seen it before (I think)

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Was this during drifter season?

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Or lost?

dim minnow
empty fern
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(I missed all of them apparently)

dim minnow
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ok, I'm remembering some things wrong I think

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so the first several visits we speak with Mara

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I think the 7th one was the last one with her since she leaves

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then after that it is just an empty court

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and you can only do a visit once every three weeks

empty fern
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Never heard of this until this day

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Damnit

dim minnow
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and it was 11 visits because each visit gave you a page to a mindfuckery lore book

dim minnow
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think of them like Invitations of the Nine

empty fern
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Aight

empty fern
dim minnow
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if my theory on Mara secretly working for the Witness is correct, then maybe that would explain why the Witness was searching for the Veil the way it did

lofty heron
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Hey, i have 2 lore questions.

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number 1: Are the uploaded neomuni immortal ?

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Number 2: Could an uploaded Neomuni Mind be returned to its body ?

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Or are their bodies not there anymore ?

dim minnow
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Neomuni still have their bodies

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they are in cryo pods

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I doubt that they would be immortal

trim grotto
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It's sort of like wearing a VR headset.

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But they're asleep.

dim minnow
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and they can leave the CloudARK whenever

trim grotto
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Usually, anyway. Currently they're locked down.

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Only a few key staff exit cryo and the CloudARK

lofty heron
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I see. Interesting concept

lofty heron
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Okay, followup question

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If they still have their bodies, why do cloudstriders need to die then ?

trim grotto
lofty heron
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iirc it said in the campaign that cloudstriders only get to live 10 years after becoming cloudstriders

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and then they die

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but it never got elaborated on why

trim grotto
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Oh, that's simple.

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Their augmentations stress their bodies until they give out.

lofty heron
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I see

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But in theory, a ghost could revive them after they die ?

trim grotto
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It's plausible, yes. They're heavily augmented, but Exo can be revived, so why not Cloudstriders?

lofty heron
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ye, that was my thought process as well

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Maybe that means we get cloudstriders as a playable race

trim grotto
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Not in Destiny 2, at least.

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You'd have recreate a character, lose your veteran status.

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And unlike current characters, a Cloudstrider is physically advantaged.

lofty heron
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oooooooh

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I get to go through a lot of lore in this mission

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interesting

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Nimbus : "Can I timetravel?"
Osiris: "Oh.... lets hope not"

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I cant XDDD

safe galleon
trim grotto
safe galleon
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could they? i remember one lore tidbit where an exo breaks their voice box and the ghost can't repair it, so they just off themself to restore it from scratch since ghosts can do that

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think it was felwinter?

trim grotto
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It was, yes.

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The Light upkeeps ones body though, and that damage was external - and also mechanical in nature. The augments, however, stress the flesh.

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Another note is that Lightless Guardians don't appear to age, based on limited and non-control examples, so perhaps a Cloudstrider Guardian without a Ghost might be fine even then. But, they're definitely unique, so who knows?

safe galleon
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i thought it was the augments themselves beginning to break down as described in the abeyant leap lore tab

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"as her implants break down, her body follows suit, each failure cascading into the next. she is withering to nothing in front of his eyes."

trim grotto
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True. It's a mix of both.

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At worst, a Ghost could presumably just rez.

safe galleon
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it seems like its somewhere in the middle yea

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the augments more than likely stress their bodies far more than a human body can handle, but also, the augments don't seem like

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too terribly optimized to begin with

trim grotto
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True. The initial one was... accidental, somehow, after all.

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But then, that was also generations ago.

safe galleon
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i still don't understand how that works

trim grotto
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It wasn't particularly clear, no

safe galleon
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they've been working off the same blueprint all this time?? nobody looked at the doomed-to-die human sacrifices and thought, 'yeah, we should probably improve on this so our last lines of defense don't croak within the decade LMAO'

trim grotto
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Y'know, there's another part to this as well

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Golden Age Humanity regularly preformed gene-splicing. A member of the NPA council had chimp-splice muscles.

If we can modify our generic makeup at will, surely they could also enhance the body to handle these implants, as well as enhancing the implants themselves?

safe galleon
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yeah it just seems kind of uhhh

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stupid?

trim grotto
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It almost seems like it's a... cultural heritage at this point. Something that is done because it is done, rather than because it is efficient.

safe galleon
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like i said, after so many years, you think they'd be like 'hmmm, maybe we should make it so the Superhuman Cyborg Transformation Machine doesn't also give you Robot Cancer, so we can have more than 2 at a time'

pure tree
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Other than Eris, what other guardian do we know of who is still alive and also been lightless for a long time?

blazing wasp
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Been a few in lore, but no major characters

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but they do exist

trim grotto
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She isn't, of course, a good control by which to verify the lifespan status of a Ghostless Guardian

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But she's also all we can really use

safe galleon
trim grotto
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What, like, only those who will self sacrifice will be given the power?

safe galleon
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if you're going to make a supersoldier that could easily take out any human, you'd want them to be more or less unconditionally loyal. being condemned to die within the decade, i imagine the only people willing to take up the mantle would be, you know

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the kind of person that's easiest to control, for lack of better terms

worn reef
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Hehehe oryx failed with me then

blazing wasp
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huh

safe galleon
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to become a cloudstrider, you'd either need to be loyal and selfless, the kinds of qualities less likely to leverage that kind of power against others, or i guess you could just be a lunatic that's completely fine dying a horrible painful death within 10 years in exchange for power, but i feel like the latter is a lot less likely

trim grotto
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Weeelllll

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Ten terrorists with Cloud Strider training. No matter what the history books say, that's my legacy.```
safe galleon
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well yes i'm sure there would inevitably be some people who do a bit of trolling

jagged badge
umbral dagger
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like vex ones

trim grotto
umbral dagger
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maybe replace power with knowledge

umbral dagger
trim grotto
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I'm not trying to shut down the topic but you replied to a specific comment about a Cloudstrider Guardian

umbral dagger
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oh

slim elk
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On the Cloudstriders creation process
It's worth mentioning one managed to grab kill codes to what creates Cloudstriders (Sidereal) and kept passing them down to further Cloudstrider if ever had the conviction to shut down the whole concept

trim grotto
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Sidereal, one word.

jagged badge
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Like “sigh-deer-ee-al”?

trim grotto
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ye

slim elk
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Figured be worth a mention Maelstrom eventually seemed to view the whole Cloudstrider deal as a curse

keen oracle
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I want to assume that with xivu no longer having access to her throne world her worm will slowly consume her now that she has to pick her battles wisely

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So I get the feeling that in heresy it will eventually lead to xivu arath exorcising her worm and attempt to gain a new power to compensate

dim minnow
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I think Xivu won't have much issue feeding her worm

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It's just that next time she dies it will be for good

outer dragon
ember storm
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her nature is war, and that includes wins or losses for her armies

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her worm still gets tribute either way

chrome fog
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The Throneworld isn’t necessary for feeding their worm, just an additional bonus of accumulating so much Ascendent power

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In layman’s terms, having a Throneworld revival is moreso you proving your right to existence so hard that reality itself cannot believe you are dead, and so on your actual death you return to the Ascendent Plane with a plot of territory which you dictate the rules of, where you decide how reality should be, as it is desired by you

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The invocation of our titles relating to the deaths of members of the Hive Pantheon makes that scene even more interesting; in really stupid terms it could be likened to Eris reminding the universe “Hey, they can die too”

slim elk
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At present Xivu doesn't have a safety net to respawn with and that seems to terrify her.

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She loved to mouth off and taunt past two seasons.

Now that she's mortal again she ran away and hid

low gyro
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I mean who wouldn't be freaking out if their trump card is gone

slim elk
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Yep
And the rest of the Hive probably see she's weak and are gunning for her head

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Getting kicked out of your own throne world be quite the humiliation

keen oracle
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I think this was a smart move by bungie

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I kinda suspect they want each hive god to be unique in someway gameplay wise

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Crota a hulking knight

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Oryx with the darkness he commands

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Savathun and her mastery of the light

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I suspect they will try to do something to xivu arath to make her unique as my biggest concern was she would end up as a crota clone

outer dragon
ember storm
chrome fog
# slim elk Yep And the rest of the Hive probably see she's weak and are gunning for her he...

She's still mega broken with how much tribute she has accumulated, just now she's also equally fragile in real-space, she can no longer pull a Crota and make herself immortal in her throneworld, nor can she revive there like Kelgorath and other Ascendent Hive. Watch her reintroduction to the narrative be her reasserting her power over a headstrong Knight who wants to take all her tribute.

slim elk
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All that's left is hunting her down after the Witness is handled as a loose end.

chrome fog
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Sure

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Sure buddy

slim elk
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Hell
We just need to strap a light suppressor on Immaru and that makes Savathun down for the count.

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Offing Xivu when she's weakened after dealing with persistent Hive attacks means we complete the trifecta of Hive God regicide

chrome fog
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Mmmm yes wage war against the war god who still gets tithe from war

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The canon is still a canon, just made of glass now

slim elk
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You know we are gonna beat the war gods God right? CATGRIN

chrome fog
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No fucking shit but also I think you’re going about it in a dumb way

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Like yes, this will definitely be the way they approach the last of the Hive Gods, like some Strike boss to off

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Wonderful build up

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Totally where all the narrative investment was going towards

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And I’ll leave it at that

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Gonna leave you to your nonsense before I get muted again

slim elk
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Do find it odd you make that argument.. when it applies to the end cutscene of this season.
Where the cutscene basically ended halfway and stuck the rest of it in a lore page

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As for Xivu..
Well we heard her all this time, and now she's left as a loose end to handle after the Final Shape. At least wanted to actually hear her reaction to Eris trick
All her buildup and didn't even show.

chrome fog
chrome fog
# slim elk Do find it odd you make that argument.. when it applies to the end cutscene of t...

How does that apply to this situation? Savathun running off after the ending of the cutscene would’ve already been at odds with what happened already, not to mention that as many - probably including yourself - have complained, saying “we have everything we need” isn’t super helpful to showing us how to get through the portal. Only by noticing a pattern on her wing by chance did we learn what that possible solution could be - the wish wall - not by her own words. Unlike Xivu’s eventual reveal, what happened after the cutscene really didn’t matter all that much

chrome fog
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Nothing which you have presented has refuted against her still being a big threat

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Other than “She didn’t visually appear this season”

slim elk
chrome fog
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Which is weak on its own, because the same could be said for Savathun, her true voice being prominent in one season only and her appearance only being after Witch Queen starts

chrome fog
jagged badge
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Which Joker?

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Jared Leto?

empty fern
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Ye

chrome fog
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Fr

empty fern
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Damnit I couldn’t type enough

slim elk
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Xivu is just simply the matter we will handle the biggest threat in the entire destiny franchise. Witness completely outclasses Xivu.

So by the time we see Xivu again, we objectively will have handed much more powerful and dangerous threats

chrome fog
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It’s

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A

empty fern
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So basically
Heresy season moment

chrome fog
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Brick

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Wall

slim elk
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The time for Xivus buildup was this season. This was the time for a payoff.
Instead she's a loose end to tie up after the grand finale.

chrome fog
# empty fern So basically Heresy season moment

Not to mention the Witness final battle is going to be a raid, so that still leaves time for Xivu as a potential boss, kind of like Calus in Lightfall, when all we had seen of him had been animatronic similcras

chrome fog
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Hmmmmm

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It’s

It’s almost like this is purposefully contrarian to tell others they’re predictions can be wrong because ‘huh, it’s a loose end’

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Anyways I give up Freak

slim elk
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Am pondering your logic a bit here admittedly.
Said it yourself, the Calus robots were a raid boss
Yet the man himself was handled in the campaign..

Raid bosses should have much more thematic and be "game changer" level threats right?

chrome fog
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Go say your truth, whatever floats your boat

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Truly a wonderful mind you are

trim grotto
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ghaul robots

chrome fog
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A walking talking memetic hazard is what you are

chrome fog
jagged badge
chrome fog
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But nah, you’re right, she’ll be found dead somewhere in space because we didn’t pay enough attention to her in the campaign or in the seasons she’s been somewhat present as a threat

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Maybe there’ll be a cool twist and Nezarec kills her for a boost in power to return to former glory

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Who knows

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I barely care anymore because lore can be as superfluous as my state of focus but somehow I can find it that it’ll be wrong in someone’s very humble opinion

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So g’night

empty fern
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Inner beauty

dim minnow
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hmmm

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for the Witness, I'm thinking that the raid is how we sort of "undo" the Witness' Collective Conciousness

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and the final campaign mission is us finishing off the last of the Witness' "selves"

ashen tiger
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I think the same as this guy

west tree
ashen tiger
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Dovadah

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(I havent read what he said)

empty fern
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(You finally figured it out)

worldly river
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The ultimate rejection of the kill-or-be-killed logic

dim minnow
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the Witness is literally responsible for every single problem we have had

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or at the very least connected to it via a series of evemts

worldly river
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The Witness as a collective consciousness, yes

dim minnow
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the way Ahsa puts it, everyone was on board

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so they all guilty

worldly river
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Maybe, but the way it's visually portrayed is as a pile of bodies, it's still very possible not everyone WAS on board, or at least not on the same omnicidal page
It's a wild idea but hey, could be interesting

dim minnow
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the pile pf bodies could have been them after the process

worldly river
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For sure

dim minnow
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their bodies stripped of their minds

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I wonder if the TFS CE will elaborate on this

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it's supposed to be Eido looking into the Witness' history

worldly river
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I just mean like, iirc they merged because they wanted the power to pursue and/or get revenge on the Traveler (I'm probably remembering that slightly wrong)
Perhaps their civilization was united in this, but not in the idea the collective consciousness eventually came to which pointed them to eradication of life

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I mean even among the Witness's followers there are many interpretations of the Final Shape, so perhaps there were similar differences in the civilization's views overall, and this one was the dominant consensus

dim minnow
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I'd say that each disciple having their own view of the final shape is just the Witness manipulating them to do what it wants

worldly river
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Well, it allowing them to maintain those flawed views certainly seems to be at least

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I'm not knowledgeable enough to compare how it presented things to us back in those books from Shadowkeep I'm blanking on vs what it's goals actually are

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Makes me wonder if it's ever attempted to persuade anyone of its true views, if it would ever seek common understanding of its Final Shape with anyone else or if maybe doing so would be too dangerous when only one could remain anyway

dim minnow
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Calus was kind of close

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when he first encountered the Black Fleet at the Black Edge, he saw the end of everything and made himself its herald

worldly river
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Other thing I wonder- the Witness itself is already a conjoining of an entire civilization
Could it attempt to do the same on a much larger scale? Is it's endgame not just to end all life, but to do so in the same way it's civilization did, to conjoin al life into one?
Probably not, but it does seem a bit odd to move from merging to just eradicating everything

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Like why did it merge it's civilization rather than remaining as a single individual, triumphant over the rest- could that not suffice?

slim elk
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Its seems that its less interested in eradicating everything and more taking control of the universe entirely so it can instill its own brand of "order" upon everything

dim minnow
worldly river
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Yeah I'm just spitballing at this point

dim minnow
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and the thing is that with that many minds together, they have to all be united or things can get complicated

slim elk
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Still could be a "lead" persona in whichever one of the Witness species actually made contact with the Veil first

dim minnow
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hmmm, maybe that is a good piece of evidence supporting the idea that everyone in the Witness' species was onboard with the Final Shape stuff

slim elk
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Wont know for sure until we start shooting at it most likely

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We could potentially start examining the process by which it did so for a potential weakness in it
Neomunas Cloudark seems pretty damn similar to what the Witness pulled

worldly river
# dim minnow hmmm, maybe that is a good piece of evidence supporting the idea that everyone i...

Looking back at the cutscene it's also worth noting that the verbage used is that they "found the means to carve away the chaos of existence", winnowing as it were, pruning that unnecessary chaos
If this phrase applies to the conjoining of the species, as a microcosm of the Final Shape as a whole, then it could track that any divergent ideas among the merged consciousness were "carved away" as well

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Though I feel like that still implies at least a majority were on board for it

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if we do compare it to the CloudArk though, that's described as a system wherein there is a mind that could act as a "conductor," meaning there would be one lead individual

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Could parallel the Witness process as well, as Freak said

slim elk
dim minnow
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Bluejay seemed to be the one who started it

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before that, it was mainly being used to store things

slim elk
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Is a bit concerning how rapidly they decided to install it into everything within the city. Including the actual defenses apparently

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Was a big reason why thought Maya-Lakshmi won out in the end over Esi originally. Makes more sense why they ignored all the flaws in it

worldly river
slim elk
dim minnow
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I suppose this was a failure on Esi's end, she kept the truth behind the Veil hidden

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because of that, the Neomuni remained ignorant to the dangers it could pose

slim elk
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The Veil was never actually contained anyway. Strand still was leaking out of it big time

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They could just never see it

dim minnow
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it was contained, it was releasing a sort of radiation

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which is why all of the exos on the Exodus Indigo died

slim elk
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Yep, that part of it.

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On Esi, I do find it somewhat bemusing she couldnt take her own lesson of "letting go" to heart

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To the point she decided giving herself over to the Vex was a good idea

dim minnow
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and we know what they did to a recaptured simulation of Maya

slim elk
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And yet she still went there for a chance of reuniting with a simulated Maya

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So much for letting go heh

dim minnow
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have you read the lore excerpts that were pinned?

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should be the first pinned message you see for this channel

slim elk
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Yep
"They are without meaning"

dim minnow
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probably my favorite set of lore excerpts when it comes to Vex

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really puts how terrifying they are in perspective

slim elk
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Just seems like they are biding their time until they see a chance to make a move

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..and we may just open the door for them

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The witness is on the verge of ultimate power, and if we open a door to try and stop it... I do believe the Vex will try and follow

dim minnow
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Echoes?

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it really looks Vex-like

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even a Venus background

slim elk
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Like I said
I wouldnt be suprised if they try to follow in the Witness footsteps and hijack both the Light and Dark since it showed how to do so

dim minnow
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Captured by Hive vs Captured by Vex

hqdefault.png 2Q.png
worldly river
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Yeah Bungie have said the Witness caused the Vex as a whole to back off, to let us and it duke it out

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But once it's gone I imagine they'll become more active in the system again

dim minnow
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the Undying Mind was the Vex's last chance to come out on top, since then, they no longer saw their own victory

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even Asher couldn't foresee a future where the Witness doesn't win with all his power

worldly river
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Come to think of it, besides the Vex in LF that WAS the last time we saw the Vex do anything of their own accord

dim minnow
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makes me wonder what exactly they were doing in that season

slim elk
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if we dont.. theres going to be a massive power vacuum the Vex may try and fill

dim minnow
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the Vex restarting the VoG because of the Pale Heart stuff is possible

worldly river
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I don't really see what power we could "hold" in that scenario

dim minnow
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the Witness is the main thing stepping in the Vex's way of domination, at least in their eyes

worldly river
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The goal of the Witness is seemingly to rewrite reality or something along those lines, and it's not like we can bluff the Vex into thinking we'll do it if they try anything

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Once it's gone it's up to whether or not they see us as an equivalent threat

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Which they almost certainly wont

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Cuz game

slim elk
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Bingo
So if we can finish the Witness plan and get control of the entirety of Light-Dark... that will put the Vex on pause

worldly river
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Finish it's plan how, by rewriting the universe?

slim elk
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I would say.. removing the current players from the board
No more Winnower or Gardener

worldly river
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The Traveler is still the source of our Light power, unless we can find a way to independently harness it like Darkness then we can't exactly do that

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And given the parallels of the Darkness coming from within while the Light comes from without, I doubt that would happen
Plus it'd open the door to other enemy factions gaining the Light

slim elk
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Yep, change the game entirely with an even playing field

dim minnow
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you reckon Ghaul will appear in the Pale Heart?

slim elk
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Already seen a Nightmare of him around

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If Bungie keeps up the "built from memory" angle, probably will

worldly river
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Imagine if during some setpiece moment we get something like Ikora showing up in WQ to blast the Ogre but instead its fucking Ghaul lmao

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Flies in with a Dawnblade super or something

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I do wonder if the Pale Heart's recreation could include old bosses

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Problem being that's kinda rehashing existing territory with Nightmares

slim elk
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They are bringing back cayde when they made a clear effort to show "yes, hes perma dead. Stop asking" over the years

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Will see how it all pans out in time, but Bungies actions lately have not inspired much confidence

dim minnow
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I feel that Haunted's story is underappreciated

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mainly in how it expands upon Deepsight and Nightmares

worldly river
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I agree

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But yeah we've already fought Nightmares of Ghaul and Fikrul in both Shadowkeep's finale and in Haunted, with Crota in SK as well, plus if you did Nightmare hunts they're in there too
So I don't really see them reusing those fights as minibosses in FS unless the distortion of the Pale Heart distorts them into new fights as well

dim minnow
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I recall that in WQ storyboards Fikrul was originally going to be in it

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and he had four staffs instead of 1

worldly river
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Damn lol

dim minnow
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I hope they keep that for Revenant

worldly river
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Wonder if Rhulk was even a thing at that point

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Or if it was supposed to be Fikrul intruding into the Throne World

slim elk
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They did joss Fikrul into the background without much comment on it

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Even with buildup towards Crow eventually seeking him out

dim minnow
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also fun fact, in Red War storyboards, it shows that Speaker was stabbed by Consul before being released from his restraints

slim elk
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They probably couldnt show explicit torture on screen without getting a M rating

worldly river
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I could believe that

slim elk
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We see mentions of it and worse in lore books. But never on screen

dim minnow
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everyone says that Speaker died because he was freed from restraints due to being tortured and such, but I always thought it was pretty clear that Consul just kills him and then releases the restraints

worldly river
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You do hear the Speaker sort of cry out while Ghaul is looking away before the Consul releases him

dim minnow
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yeah

worldly river
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I bet they literally just cut that bit out and scrubbed any blood

slim elk
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Bungies done the old trick of ultra violence vs robots being good in the eyes of ratings boards lol

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Its why you can wreck Vex a lot more then any other race

dim minnow
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and they censor the blood by making it white

gentle geyser
slim elk
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Heck, check the scene where Eris slashes open Savathuns throat

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Just that green spiritual energy

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Not even any blood on the blade

dim minnow
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Hive "blood" always looked like ash

slim elk
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On another topic..
Baby Ahamkara:Cute or ugly?

dim minnow
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cute but still morally obligated to kill it

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I say cute because they can shapeshift

slim elk
#

Sorry Dova, we will need the critter to follow the Witness

#

Be the Season of the Wish

dim minnow
#

Bungie better make this damn fortune gecko the realest mf by the time the season ends

#

or I'm gonna be prepared to knock it off

slim elk
#

You think Mara has learned her lesson about Ahamkara?

#

.. she did have that corrupted egg still in her vault

dim minnow
#

granted Mara had a damn good system for dealing with Riven

#

only issue is that she let Riven help build the city

#

and Riven specifically made the city beautiful, but unsafe

little gorge
#

story wise this kinda has to end well

#

because it's the solution to this whole witness crisis

#

i doubt we'd get something like "oh no a massive disaster brought forth by our use of the ahamkara? well we gotta go jump into the triangle so let's just ignore that until next year"

chrome fog
#

There’s a theory that kinda like how the Distributary had eons pass in the time from the Collapse to now, wherever the Witness is at has time travel more slowly than time in-universe

empty fern
#

Time dilation

#

?

ember storm
#

the class item mod!? 🤯

empty fern
#

Wals hush

peak coral
#

or i uhhh

ember storm
empty fern
empty fern
#

So what does the vanguard lore talk about? (The ones awarded for guardian ranks)

#

Oh just summary of past events

pearl basin
#

the new dungeon definitely has some connection to shaxx
cuz there is a high chance shaxx is coming next season and the new dungeon is called warlords ruin

#

right?

peak coral
#

i reckon saladin will do something

pearl basin
#

SIVAAAA!!!!!

peak coral
#

same with shaxx

pearl basin
#

yea

empty fern
#

SOVAAAA

#

But yes pls bungie

#

Wait

#

No it’s warlord so not siva (those are iron lords)

ember storm
#

SIVA wasn’t in the picture at all when they were dealing with warlords

empty fern
#

True

#

Soooo, leftover house of wolves dungeon? Leftover devils?

ember storm
#

scorn dungeon defo CATGRIN

empty fern
#

Shush

#

Go back to work now

ember storm
#

I’m on lunch break

empty fern
#

Damn you

little gorge
little gorge
#

if it even is about THOSE warlords

#

ok nvm apparently there's a trait called "nanomunitions"

#

maybe it's siva?

#

i explicitly don't want siva so the siva copers don't get anything

slim elk
#

There's not much else could be that ties to Warlords.
Bungie isn't going to suddenly pull out a human enemy faction

#

So the only thematic link to it would be SIVA for enemies to shoot.

gentle geyser
#

Fallen themed dudgeon please

#

Fallen themed armor🙏

chrome fog
#

We have several fallen adjacent armor sets from seasons alone, but it would be neat to see some other styles of Eliksni armor

empty fern
#

Maybe scatterhorn?

#

(I don’t wanna count the dsc and forge raid armor(

dim minnow
#

DSC is not Fallen

#

Neither is Scourge of the Past

#

I'm referring to the armor here

#

Plunder has some fallen-styled armor if I'm correct

#

The ketchkiller sets

empty fern
#

It’s hard to decide on that, (I don’t see it) bulbasip

velvet flax
#

Hunt's armour is Eliksni for one of the classes

#

Hunter I think

chrome fog
#

It's eh, not quite Eliksni styled but we did get that Warlock crazy crown which is somewhat adjacent to Eliksni

velvet flax
#

Titan is Cabal themed and Warlock is Hive themed for that set

empty fern
#

The ketchkiller warlock helmet?

chrome fog
#

Oh, the ornaments, not necessarily the armor sets

empty fern
#

Ah

chrome fog
#

Because I can see that for these, but not the actual armor sets

image.png
empty fern
#

Oh yea Titan definitely legionary looking (damnit bungie I wish I got it)

chrome fog
#

It's the arms with the War Beast stuff

empty fern
#

But what’s warlock suppose to be? Ahamkara bones?

chrome fog
#

Could see it being Hive adjacent

empty fern
#

Probably

trim grotto
#

It is. It literally has a Thrall skull on the hip.

empty fern
#

Oh yea

#

(I didn’t see it hush)

chrome fog
#

Me neither, the press shot doesn't have a good angle

ember storm
jade rampart
#

Are any of the awoken guardians besides crow

ember storm
#

yes?

#

he’s not special at all

#

there are plenty of awoken guardians

#

Zavala is literally blue

trim grotto
jagged badge
#

Why are you blue

trim grotto
#

It's waltz's special attack

ember storm
#

unfortunately a dog stole my actual special attack

gentle geyser
#

I want fallen themed armor equivalent to the shit the hive get

#

Just something that you look at and you instantly know what the theme is

ember storm
gentle geyser
#

That certainly is a set that exists

#

Thats scatterhorn titan no?

ember storm
#

yes

#

not to mention the separate tangled shore sets

#

and lightkin

#

and ketchkiller

#

and the splicer ornas

#

and a slew of exotic ornaments

empty fern
#

Hey angey

gentle geyser
#

Lightkin is very hit and miss

#

Some great pieces some meh pieces

empty fern
#

But you certainly can agree that titans get a literal shank for their head CATGRIN

chrome fog
outer dragon
#

Lightkin titan legs are ass and over hyped
Lightkin titan helm is kino for space bug looks

chrome fog
#

Lightkin Titan arms are a long time favorite of fashion trying to ape off of Shaxx, which yeah it does work well

outer dragon
#

I do like the Lightkin mark for trash goblin looks

worldly river
worldly river
regal tree
#

I just had the biggest what if moment for myself. Imagine if Xivu got revived by a ghost

#

Devotion to her Sisters and her family
Bravery in taking on the universe for them
Sacrificing literally everything
Dying due to skill issue

#

Definitely will never happen, but it would be really cool

#

She’s the only one of the 3 that hasn’t been at least attempted to be revived

sleek matrix
regal tree
gentle geyser
#

Xivu aint dead yet?

sleek matrix
trim grotto
dim minnow
#

Petra is just standing there in the Wish thumbnail

#

taunting me

trim grotto
#

Abide the return, Dova.

dim minnow
#

since its lore tab details how it was Paladin Kamala Rior who rallied the guardians to the Dreaming City's defense instead of Petra

merry olive
#

Are there any prevailing theories about what warlord’s ruin might be about?

trim grotto
#

...I have one theory
Remind me about it in two hours

gentle geyser
#

If its just another hive or taken dudgeon then Tired

#

I just want a fallen dudgeon that isn’t a funny joke like goa

chrome fog
sleek matrix
merry olive
#

is it possible it could take place in the ruins of caer lerion?

slim elk
merry olive
#

ah fair

#

i just can't think of another place that could fit "warlord's ruin" more

#

unless it's scouring xivu's throne world
but like
idk

gentle geyser
#

Part of me is screaming that its just more hive stuff

merry olive
#

i'm hoping it's fallen tbh

gentle geyser
#

I don’t need to keep saying how badly I want to be fallen

dim minnow
#

Plaguelands?

gentle geyser
dim minnow
#

Rise of iron

gentle geyser
#

Oh

#

Maybe

slim elk
#

SIVA ironically is the best bet.
Its the only enemy faction with any thematics to the Warlords-Iron Lords

#

Bungies not going to bust out an enemy human faction alas

trim grotto
# 

“It will take some time to breach the security codes,” the Exo said, indicating an underground extension a mile under the fortification. “But this is it. One of several across the Earth. Perhaps across other worlds. Some are tied to more important systems than others. All Golden Age. Some hide weapons. Armor. Nanites.”

“What is it?” Saladin asked.

“A Seraph Bunker. Rasputin tech.”```

Perhaps it's a callback to this old thing
chrome fog
#

Fire

#

SIVA will be styled as some kind of Flames or whatever

#

I can see it

dim minnow
#

could the boss be a dead Warlord being controlled by SIVA

#

like the three Iron Lrods we fought in RoI?

slim elk
#

The Remnants? Would be interesting to see enemy like them again

chrome fog
#

I could also be thinking of Coral from AC6, which is semi-adjacent to SIVA in that it is a partially sentient collective of particulates which are red

outer dragon
#

SIVA and BA meet up?

#

Thats what I want

slim elk
#

Its too vague to really make connections just yet

outer dragon
#

Fallen that scavenged BA tech and tried using it and SIVA

#

Hype

slim elk
#

Can presume the dungeon will be on earth though

#

Warlords were only active on Earth

merry olive
#

apparently in other languages it uses the feminine article of warlord

slim elk
#

So that rules out Shaxxs castle

#

..
Think the only confirmed female Warlord was the Wake?

outer dragon
#

What if we learn that Effridet was a warlord before joining the Iron Lords

dim minnow
#

so?

#

Felwinter was

outer dragon
#

Is more we have no pre iron lord lore on her

slim elk
#

Do have her introduction, and she was willingly trying to join the Iron Lords of own free will

#

So pretty unlikely

dim minnow
#

you know, I just realized that the Traveler is the supreme Destiny lore nerd

#

it literally knows all Destiny lore

#

in the Forsaken middle subclass tree mission, you can hear it recite various quotes from the lore

#

ones that come from the Speaker, Efrideet, etc.

#

and then we got the Pale Heart

gentle geyser
#

The traveler is a fuckin nerdy ass geek

#

(Real)

dim minnow
#

in all seriousness, this pretty much means it is omnipotent

slim elk
#

Does this mean the Travelers favorite class is a warlock?

empty fern
#

Gonna nerf it just in case

dim minnow
#

would be funny if the Traveler knew where the story would go this entire time

gentle geyser
dim minnow
#

or was its beam attracted to the lightning rod thing attached to Nezarec's regeneration chamber

slim elk
#

Otherwise.. what was the point exactly of reviving one of the Witness Disciples?

#

(And then having a Guardian kill team sent in)

chrome fog
# slim elk Probably wasn't intentional

But heeey, who knows, maybe the fact Nezarec persists removed from his corporeal body would’ve been a pointer towards a certain someone who also holds knowledge on life beyond this one (Savathun being the last remaining withholder of Hive Necromancy after Nokris sought refuge and most likely had all his knowledge shared with her - knowingly or unknowingly)

pearl basin
dim minnow
#

imagine if that one Wizard trapped in that crystal in that one D1 crucible map got out

#

I'm not sure if it was confirmed, but a lot of people assumed that the wizard in there is Verok, Alak-hul's mate

lofty heron
#

I have another lorequestion

#

Do guardians get to find out who they were in their past life ? or is that a taboo or something ?

#

Lets take crow for example

#

does he know he's the royal POS that killed Cayde ?

dim minnow
#

mainly since it is believed that it could distract you from protecting humanity

#

Ana Bray however, went after her past anyways since she thought that it would help us since she is the Ana Bray

#

since she had an ID card on her when she died

#

as for Crow

#

so for a while he had no idea who he was previously

#

and he had no idea why he kept getting attacked by anyone who saw his face

#

for like 2 years

#

anyways, fast forward to Season of the Lost (last season before Witch Queen)

#

and at this point, Crow is an established guardian working for the Vanguard

#

Ikora knew about him before we even met him and Zavala found out towards the end of the Chosen story

#

though Crow still had to keep away from the spotlight and he still didn't know why

#

eventually, he got too close to Savathun, who was trapped in a crystal at this time, and was convinced to reach out towards her for answers

#

as a result, Savathun gave Crow Uldren's memories, so now now he knows all about his past life

lofty heron
#

Oof

dim minnow
#

for a bit he was not doing well mentally which ended up in him messing up and accidentally killing a Psion envoy Caiatl sent us

lofty heron
#

But hey, at least he now knows why everyone wants to cave his face in

dim minnow
#

so then Saladin had to step in and take the punishment for Crow which is why Saladin is now working for the Cabal Empire

lofty heron
#

Huh

dim minnow
#

fortunately, this outcome was favorable for everyone

lofty heron
#

But since the Cabal now work with us, i wonder how long until we have the first Cabal guardians

dim minnow
#

Saladin ranked up to Valus pretty quickly

#

anyways, then comes Season of the Haunted and Crow is faced with a Nightmare of Uldren who torments him

#

thanks to his group therapy session with us, Eris, and the Crown of Sorrow, Crow overcomes the nightmare and resolves to undoing the damage Uldren has caused

#

he also had a little bit of conflict with Amanda because she really looked up to Cayde

#

but it got settled eventually

#

then Amanda dies in Defiance which did some emotional damage to Crow

#

and we haven't heard from him since

#

though it seems he will be back tomorrow

#

along with...

#

her

lofty heron
#

ye

#

gonna be interesting to see how that plays out

jagged badge
#

Amanda still couldn’t feel the same about Crow during Defiance, even when she told him she knew it wasn’t fair to him

#

And then her death happens before any proper reconciliation right?

trim grotto
#

True.

dim minnow
#

I suppose they never really truly reconciled, but it seemed like they were getting there

jagged badge
#

That’s the sad part

#

But it also feels realistic yk?

blazing wasp
#

realistic yea but

#

real life also tells a shit story

#

but thats nitpicking honestly

open saffron
#

Hey guys I missed most of this season but came back yesterday to barely finish the quest. Could anyone fill me in, however, on everything that happened past the seasonal quest, something that links toward an ahamkara egg/the new season? I did not get to play it but I'm excited for the new season

merry olive
# trim grotto True.

Oh I completely forgot to ask last night
Whats your theory about warlord’s ruin?

ember storm
#

there's some theories being thrown around genchat right now

merry olive
#

Oh wait you’re offline
Oof

#

Ah

ember storm
#

uncovering the secrets she left for us to find led us to an unhatched ahamkara egg

merry olive
#

Eris became a hive god and we tithed to her

ember storm
#

and she also indirectly gave us a new command to use in the wish wall

#

so

#

season of the wish

merry olive
#

Then she kicked xivu out of her own throne world

ember storm
#

yippe

open saffron
#

I know that much bc I did play the main story but I didn't get to do the stuff that led to ahamkara egg?

merry olive
#

Also all that too

open saffron
#

Was that imbaru engine?

merry olive
#

Yeah

ember storm
#

yes

open saffron
#

15th wish is canon 😭

ember storm
#

it was kind of weird in execution tbh

#

like savathun literally tatooed it into her wings

#

she could've just left us a note

open saffron
#

🤨

#

That is so odd lol

#

Okay thank you

#

So we found an unhatched ahamkara egg

#

And what it will be used for, we shall find out today?

ember storm
#

omelette

open saffron
#

Ok let them cook

merry olive
little gorge
#

because we seem to have brought riven back?

#

confusing trailer

ember storm
#

omelette real

little gorge
#

riven wants her eggs back

#

(to make the omelette)

chrome fog
versed orbit
chrome fog
#

It's neat, Vex are also involved

chrome fog
versed orbit
#

shush

lost abyss
#

I'm a bit confused on the whole "Last Wish" thing. Was that actively being searched for in-universe? I thought it was just Wish 15 spinfoil stuff

versed orbit
#

no it's actually a thing now

chrome fog
#

It was real, but there was a metacontextual spin to it; but now they've repurposed it to be real

#

Again

versed orbit
#

some people thought it didn't exist and some people thought it was the raid itself

chrome fog
#

In a more literal sense

#

There was a descriptor in-game for it, can't remember what it was

lost abyss
#

I'm not even sure if the 14 wishes themselves have narrative significance tbh, aren't they gameplay aspects for the raid

versed orbit
#

yeah

ember storm
#

they weren't canon

little gorge
#

"last words, last wish" sounds so ominous

ember storm
#

when Eris talks at the end of last aeason she just says one last wish or something

#

she doesn't say "omg it's the 15th wish real" does she

lost abyss
versed orbit
lost abyss
#

it just sounded so bizarre when I heard it

jagged badge
versed orbit
#

i dreamt it

chrome fog
#

Anyways, congrats to the Vex prediction

#

They do be present

open saffron
#

I wonder why?

ember storm
#

enemy variety ig

#

the sol divisive are some of the grunts the witness can just toss at us

little gorge
#

well that means we're getting like 10 months straight of vex in "seasonal" content

ember storm
#

still think it's ItL stuff

little gorge
#

maybe the black garden shot is but they were also in the dreaming city

orchid wedge
#

Hi guys

#

:>

ember storm
#

helo

orchid wedge
#

I must know

#

Do guardians ever get to chill

#

Or is it always fight fight fight

ember storm
#

they do whatever they want to do

#

it’s their decision to go patrol or do missions

orchid wedge
#

That’s kewl

#

I’m still wondering how their alive after everything

ember storm
#

wdym

empty fern
orchid wedge
orchid wedge
#

I n s a n e

chrome fog
#

Wdym

little gorge
#

lots of guardians die

blazing wasp
orchid wedge
#

But we be bugging out killing paracasual gods

#

We really the mc’s

regal tree
#

Are ahamkara allowed to refuse a wish?

chrome fog
#

We

#

We are paracausal ourselves, that's also key here

#

We are pretty impressive in that we've mastered all three Light subclass elements as well as Stasis and Strand, the latter we essentially built up ourselves with assistance from Osiris

ember storm
#

they feed off of actualizing desire

#

there’s not genie rules or anything

little gorge
orchid wedge
#

Star horse is the most powerful being 🗣️

chrome fog
#

It is

#

But also they don't do anything aside host a nice side activity

#

Dares could be boiled down to "What if the Guardian went ahead and played dodgeball with Shaxx and the City kids and won the prize of a Halo Magnum" but instead of Shaxx and the kids of the Last City, it's various hordes of enemies pulled from parallel realities

regal tree
orchid wedge
#

Just like drifter

#

The two biggest goofs in the tower

trim grotto
candid inletBOT
#
maelstronnar (ID 238506376165457920)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion


“It will take some time to breach the security codes,” the Exo said, indicating an underground extension a mile under the fortification. “But this is it. One of several across the Earth. Perhaps across other worlds. Some are tied to more important systems than others. All Golden Age. Some hide weapons. Armor. Nanites.”

“What is it?” Saladin asked.

“A Seraph Bunker. Rasputin tech.”```

Perhaps it's a callback to this old thing
Command triggered by maelstronnar. Message link from ¡
prime rover
#

can I get a catch-up on seasonal story from probably early bl to now excluding campaign

#

haven't played in a while and campaign excluding lightfall is basically all I remember

merry olive
#

But it would be a bit odd to have another seraph dungeon

little gorge
# prime rover haven't played in a while and campaign ~~excluding lightfall~~ is basically all ...

the part that's relevant to the current plot is that titan came back along with sloane and that big whale thing which turned out to be a proto worm god called ahsa and she told us that we need to resurrect savathun to follow the witness, and so we made a bargain where eris would temporarily turn into a hive and fight xivu arath in exchange for savathun telling us how to enter the portal, she killed savathun once giving her enough power to lock xivu out of her throne world, and then it turned out sav had a pattern on her wings with a wish (the last wish) for an ahamkara and now we're here

prime rover
#

I feel like I'm still missing a few pieces of this puzzle

#

did titan come back out of the blue or did something like make it come back

#

did they explain why sav knew how to follow witness into the whatever

#

where did witness go that needed to be followed

#

did sav... get revived and have a chat with us or something before eris killed her to lock whoever out of wherever

#

why didn't we see the wish the first time we killed her

#

how does all the (relevant) hive stuff even work here, like the resurrection, eris fighting xivu, why sav wanted to kill xivu as part of the bargain, the throne world bit

little gorge
prime rover
#

the what of huh

little gorge
prime rover
#

if that was the wq raid then idk what that was about either

little gorge
#

that's the lightfall raid

#

it's in the witness' pyramid

#

where all the planets were

prime rover
#

the whatwhat

#

I don't think I remember all the pyramid shenanigans and what it had to do with witness

#

all I remember of cloud megamind was that he showed up and said something at the end of that one campaign

little gorge
#

oh wait i forgot the witness part

#

the witness is the collective consciousness of an entire civilization

#

they used to be blessed by the traveller but they tried to use it and the veil to enact the final shape and it left them

#

the pyramids are just their ships

little gorge
prime rover
#

final what huh

#

what is veil

#

this is what not knowing two years of story does to me huh

#

jeebus

little gorge
#

(or at least that's what's implied)

chrome fog
# prime rover can I get a catch-up on seasonal story from probably early bl to now excluding c...

BL happens, at the same time Season of the Hunt, we go after Xivu Arath’s High Celebrant for killing Osiris’ ghosts Sagira, as well as the fact that they were Hivifying a bunch of other enemy ads, making them wrathborn
Chosen had us pitted against new Empress Caital of the Cabal empire, basically we ran a gauntlet against her champions to prove our strength as allies. We succeed, Crow defends Zavala during a plot by some Psions to kill him and Empress Caital, revealing Crow to Zavala
Splicer, we get a message from Variks to help with fleeing Eliksni, and we meet Misraaks (Mithrax) who helps us combat the Taken Vex Mind Quria from perpetuating the Darkest Night simulation above the City, which blocked out the Sun and generally made people act worse on their suspicions. House Light joins our side, all the factions from D1 are basically nonexistent, either crumbling with Lakshmi-2’s death or running off with Dead Orbit, Monarchy supporting both groups
Season of the Lost, we corner Savathun as we find out she had been masquerading in Osiris’ body after Sagira died, we bargain to free her from her worm if she lets Osiris go. Crow is tempted and takes the offer by Savathun to take Uldren’s memories, Crow is shell shocked and his and Amanda’s relationship crumbles a bit after that

#

Witch Queen, Savathun has revealed her ship, the Lure, and we go in to git her, turns out she’s coerced a number of ghosts to resurrect Hive for her service; over the course of the campaign we learn about Deepsight and the Relic - basically looking back at how a thing used to be, how it was “remembered” as, and restoring it to that past state - as well as thwart Savathun’s plan to kidnap the Travelers and get the fuck out of dodge while the Witness wrecks the Sol System

light stratus
#

is it just me but doesn't it look canna like a demagorgan

Screenshot_20231128_215609_YouTube.jpg
chrome fog
#

WQ Seasons:
Risen, we work with Caital to uncover more of Savathun’s plans, using Psions to probe their minds. At the finale, Crow accidentally kills the Psion who was scanning the captured Hive Lightbearers’ minds - this same Psion being close to Caital as well - both because the Hive Lightbearers were suffering and the Psion was also suffering in that particular instance. To negotiate peace, Saladin offers to go with Caital to take Crow’s punishment, which ends up being for the better because Salading meshes really well with the combay culture of the Cabal
Haunted, Calus comes back trying to… do some shit with the Moon Pyramid, more nightmares pop up and start haunting multiple people - namely Crow, Zavala, and Caital. Using the Crown of Sorrow and Eris’ help, we purify the Nightmares and prevent Calus from doing whatever bullshit he was gonna do.
Plunder, we go searching for Eliksni relics from their time drifting in space, they actually house pieces of Nezarec, and are chock full of Darkness. It’s a race against Eramis and Lucent Hive.
Seraph, Xivu Arath comes back to threaten us again, we’re also trying to gather all the separate pieces of Rasputin, the Warmind, as Xivu’s forces are also racing to access the Warsat systems. Ultimately, we learn that even using the Warsat system would still tithe to Xivu, with her being the Hive God of War; Rasputin sacrificed himself to self-destruct the Warsats and prevent their usage

chrome fog
light stratus
chrome fog
#

It’s vaguely like the demagorgan

#

Like barely

#

In that segmenting plates compose both of their faces

prime rover
#

so eris decided to do the hive-ify thing so we tithe directly to her and make her stronger than we indirectly make xivu stronger?

chrome fog
#

Not really; for Xivu to gain tithes, it seems it would have to be either dedicated to her or done against her followers and brood, though it could also just be that conflict in general tithes to her, but the way we had the ritual set up, all the tithe from Season of the Witch was guided directly to Eris with the help of Ahsa

#

But also yes, you’re correct about why we tithed to Eris in the first place, as using all our tithes as well as the accumulated tithe that Savathun had which hadn’t actually been claimed by anyone allowed her to close off Xivu’s access to her Throneworld

prime rover
#

whats the significance of the throne world to hive gods like

#

doing hive god things

#

and wym sav's tithes hadnt been claimed by anyone

#

was she just shirking her hive god duties since she died in the wq campaign

chrome fog
# prime rover whats the significance of the throne world to hive gods like

Throneworlds are portions of the Ascendent Plane dedicated to Ascendent beings - namely Hive. To explain the mechanics of how Throneworlds come about, think of it as the universe being convinced that it’d be impossible to have you around, so it makes a small revive room for you to come back from over and over again

#

This is only possible with the worms, who are derived from the Worm God Xita, the Worm Gods themselves sharing a common lineage with Ahsa

#

In a Throneworld, the rules of reality are dictated by the owner of said Throneworld; an example of this would be Crota’s Throneworld, where he made himself invincible. The only way we could defeat him is with his Blades, as he held the Sword in higher regard to himself

#

Throughout Witch Queen, Savathun has dialogue mentioning how she shaped her Throneworld to be the way that it is, and that she is knowledgeable of everything that goes on in it

chrome fog
#

Tangentially, Oryx made it so that as we went through the Dreadnaught we generated Ascendent Power/Tithe; after killing him, we gave that power to Mara (I believe)

#

Mara herself tried to create a Throneworld, which was what the Shattered Throne used to be, until Oryx caught wind of her sneaking bits of his Throneworld to build his own

#

He did a Hulk Smash and shattered it

prime rover
#

as a refresher, wormgods were like a whole group that lied to pre-hive that they needed them to be anything? and sort of were to an extent with the cost of all that tithing and such

#

with the exception of this ahsa

chrome fog
#

You’re close, good intuition

#

So the proto-hive used to live on Fundament, where Survival of the Mightiest was already a part of their culture as the moon of Fundament regularly deposited new species onto the planet; to severely summarize, the three Hive Gods used to be the Princesses of the Osmium Court, the ruling family of proto-hive society basically. Their father, the Osmium King, was old and had come across a Worm Familiar which dictated to him portents of the future; it was gaslighting him, however, and it made him appear mad and paranoid. Because of this, the Helium Drinkers lead a revolution against the Osmium King and overthrew his court, but not before he left the worm familiar in the hands of Sathona

#

At the same time, the Traveler steadily approaching Fundament, which is important to the story of the Princesses of the Ownium court. Guiding Sathona and her sisters Xi Ro and Aurash, they met the Worm Gods who had been imprisoned in by the Leviathan (we think they’re related to Ahsa as well, a fellow proto-worm, but that’s mostly theory crafting). They gaslight the sisters into believing the Traveler’s arrival coinciding with the Zygyxy - the alignment of the planets in their star system - would cause a “God Wave” which would drown and wipe out all the proto-hive, unless they made a deal and took their power

smoky rose
#

The Szygy was an alignment of Fundament's 56 moons btw

#

Or 55 + 1 (traveler) iirc

chrome fog
#

Damn that’s crazy

smoky rose
#

Not planets

chrome fog
#

Imagine 55 moons, holy shit

prime rover
#

did ahsa just not want to do it and leave or was it sort of a marvel venom situation where they were booted from the gang for one reason or another, so did they just reach out and help us for no reason or was it just an enemy of my enemy thing

chrome fog
#

Reading this might sound sarcastic but I’m genuinely flabbergasted

prime rover
#

or do we just not really know

chrome fog
smoky rose
#

At least that were left by the time the Hive turned them all into warmoons

chrome fog
#

She kept Sloane safe in the time that Titan was taken

#

Which I haven’t explained yet, but I’m also losing steam

#

The Worm Gods themselves are actually outcasts of the species Ahsa belonged to

smoky rose
#

There we go, there's the lore of it

image.png
#

Also presumably there were more than that, all the civs of fundament were on moons that crashed onto the planet

#

Including the Krill

chrome fog
chrome fog
#

I think the lorebook of last season details Ahsa’s thoughts on being part of the conduit feeding tithe into Eris, it’s a good explanation of what I’m trying to convey

#

Gimme a minute

#

;lore

candid inletBOT
prime rover
#

so were whatever ahsa was stronger than the darkness for her to survive when it ate titan or was it weakened or something

#

id assume the better-than-worm-gods would be weaker than the worm gods since the latter would be getting tithes for eons

chrome fog
# chrome fog I think the lorebook of last season details Ahsa’s thoughts on being part of the...

This is what I’m referencing
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/an-invocation

An Invocation — Entry — Ishtar Collective

—
Titan's methane oceans roiled. Saturn's crushing gravity caused massive tidal waves to surge across the moon's surface.
In the comforting blackness beneath the waves, the tides swelled and contracted like the breath of a great beast. Within that churn of elemental forces, the proto-worm Ahsa slumbered.
She was not "asleep" in any sense her ...

prime rover
#

and i remember taken hive being a generally bad thing even for hive standards

chrome fog
#

Taken Hive are just part of the Taken, in that they are tools and weapons used by their master

ember storm
chrome fog
ember storm
#

you're either being rendered a "finalized shape" by your god king or the entity that set up your entire religion

chrome fog
ember storm
#

hive love to be taken

prime rover
#

yeah was like the species ahsa was a part of

#

stronger than the darkness

ember storm
#

not at all

prime rover
#

in the case of ahsa surviving titan getting swallowed

ember storm
#

that's literally why most took the darkness' power

chrome fog
#

Darkness is just a force; it’s been revealed that the “Darkness” we’ve being combatting has really been the Witness

ember storm
#

pretty sure it wasn't an automatic kill wave agaist everything there

chrome fog
#

Waltz can probably correct me on Ahsa’s species, I don’t recall us getting a lot of information on them

ember storm
#

we just call them proto worms because they didn't really look like worms

#

akin to how distant krill and hive look in appearance with how much tribute they've attained, the worm gods mutated an incredible amount

#

although the small parasites the worm gods create do still somewhat resemble the old forms

prime rover
#

so the witness decided to confiscate a few planets from our lovely little solar system

#

for what reason again

chrome fog
#

To fuck us over

ember storm
#

to isolate us

prime rover
#

and what happened in the raid for us to get it back

ember storm
#

make us feel weak and unprepared

chrome fog
#

And waltz

chrome fog
ember storm
#

for a reminder this was literally just before Beyond light where the witness attempted to dangle stasis in front of us to manipulate us

prime rover
#

so i think i passively absorbed somewhere that like

muted hemlock
#

Just asking, theoretically, could we wish for more wishes from Riven?

ember storm
#

there's no 3 wishes rule

#

they're not genies

muted hemlock
#

Well we can wish for anything right?

ember storm
#

the main danger is that whatever the ahamkara does will be guaranteed to fuck you over specifically because they like doing it

#

they don't even need wishes

#

one time an ahamkara mind controlled a bunch of awoken and had them dance off a cliff to their death

muted hemlock
#

Wait really?!

chrome fog
#

Also Riven is dead, she’s pulling some strings to grant this wish

#

She says so to our face

muted hemlock
ember storm
#

there was also 2, count them two ahamkara that randomly decided to fuck with venus on a fundamental level

#

the sole guardian witness to the event committed suicide and had to be physically restrained after revival

chrome fog
# muted hemlock Is that lore?!

During the Great Hunt where we eradicated all the Ahamkara, Saladin wished to battle a dragon and it obligated, with him and Efrideet struggling to take it down

#

Oh uh, Waltz

#

Quick question

ember storm
# muted hemlock Is that lore?! 

And they did not hear the singing stop.

And they did not hear the bodies dashed against the shore below.

And they did not see Azirim grow, or laugh, or flee.```
muted hemlock
#

HOLY

#

THATS FUNNY AND DARK

chrome fog
# chrome fog Quick question

@ember storm Can you continue running down what’s happened in-universe from the start of Lightfall and also the raids for WQ and Lightfall? I’ve been doing so for Navy Seal but I’m in the middle of some chores rn

muted hemlock
#

I LOVE IT!

ember storm
#

an ahamkara also challenged the first hunter vanguard to a poker game and ate her when she lost

chrome fog
#

I recommend looking at the Great Hunt page on Ishtar, if they have one (they probably do)

prime rover
#

so witness was a whole species that met the traveler at one point and were cool with it until they learned there was its opposite and that it wasnt really a good/evil dynamic but instead like a pb&j deal, so they decided to try and play god to try and make a situation where the two didnt have to fight by way of literally ending all life in the universe so they wouldnt have any pawns to play their game anymore?

ember storm
#

but the witness' species decided it was their purpose to bring about what they felt the end state of the universe should be

#

the traveler didn't particularly like that and fled

#

ultimately the witness' civilization condensed itself into one singular entity (most likely through force, i don't imagine the entire race was a fan of the idea and we see the process involved numerous bodies, many being dismembered) and set off to try linking the veil to the traveler again

#

what you're doing is misattributing Unveiling as the real context

#

it's not

#

it's more like propaganda the witness is spreading, probably a remnant from when it was actually people and not cloudy megamind

prime rover
#

so there wasnt really a dynamic between the traveler and the veil in the first place but the witness's end goal thought the two would be merged in some way?

chrome fog
#

They wouldn’t really know that, that’s why they asked for a rundown on the lore from Beyond Light onwards, I got them somewhat up to Lightfall

prime rover
#

or is that way off

ember storm
#

they really just found two eldritch entities with godlike power and filled in their own dots to justify their end goal

ember storm
prime rover
#

wait so what would inspire them to do the world ending event

#

simply learning that the veil existed?

ember storm
#

they just came to the conclusion

prime rover
#

and a lot of leaps in logic?

chrome fog
ember storm
#

they had an unknown amount of time of boring prosperity

#

the traveler brings gifts but no explanations

#

and let's be honest, it's sort of the nature of civilization to make conflict out of nothing

chrome fog
#

Unveiling is a mixed bag of nebulous and confirmed things, especially in regards to the Gardener

chrome fog
prime rover
#

wouldnt the traveler be unconceivably more powerful than whatever the witness before they merged wouldve cooked up though

#

how did they become a threat

ember storm
chrome fog
prime rover
#

or were they literally in a perpetual golden age and just sort of exponentially became a more and more powerful race

chrome fog
#

Which is her whole thing, she doesn’t want to impede too much on the development of life, simple cultivate it. Unfortunately that life decided to do an Ultron on her

ember storm
prime rover
#

on a little tangent before i return to my original question about finishing up on the catch-up of seasonal story

#

black garden

#

what was that about

#

id imagine itd be a long topic

onyx rapids
#

Where is black garden in the d2 universe

#

And why the witness bad

ember storm
ember storm
chrome fog
#

But it does has portals on Mars and Venus, I believe

trim grotto
#

It did. No longer.

#

It shifts, anchoring and detaching from places.

chrome fog
#

It itself is a simulation of supposedly the Garden mentioned in Unveiling, hinted at by the existence of the stump of a Tree of Silver Wings, the plateau you see in some cutscenes and that you go into in the Garden of Salvation raid

trim grotto
#

The Vex get around this with actual crafted portals.

chrome fog
#

Uh Mael, how available are you for the next while?

trim grotto
#

Not very

chrome fog
#

Rip that then

#

Waltz should still be able to help

trim grotto
#

What's up?

chrome fog
#

Navy Seal wanted a catch-up on all the lore from BL to now, I already did a summary of campaigns and seasons up to Seraph, didn’t cover Vow or RoN nor this year’s seasons

trim grotto
#

Ah yeah no
I'm on break at work on mobile
Triple threat

chrome fog
#

Yep, gl with your shift

hollow zealot
#

what do ahamkara meat taste like

prime rover
#

probably the opposite of the spectrum compared to vex milk

hollow zealot
#

drifter would probably know

#

if hes just gonna eat everything and everyone

#

can we like inhale the smokey cloud of the witness and see what happens

chrome fog
#

Die

#

You’d be Die

sleek matrix
#

so there was a new radio log at veil containment

chrome fog
# hollow zealot what do ahamkara meat taste like

Also idk if anyone’s tasted Ahamkara meat; considering Rivne’s corpse calcified and had moss grown over it, you’d have an equal chance biting into a perfectly cooked wagyu steak or a rock

hollow zealot
#

😄

autumn bolt
prime rover
#

real question, how would it feel to stick your hand in the witness smoke cloud

autumn bolt
#

Now this is a real question

#

I think i would be easy to push in but would feel like "skin"

chrome fog
# prime rover black garden

Oh, returning to this a bit, the Black Garden is also what housed the Black Heart, a failed replica of the Veil, which the Vex were somewhat able to harvest paracausal power from, albeit not to a standard where it could be readily weaponized

#

The Vex can’t in terms of symbolism, they can only simulate literally what will happen because they supposedly have a deep understanding of all the conventional laws of reality, which includes physics, biology, all the science

regal tree
#

Drifter rizz is unfathomable

IMG_5372.jpg
chrome fog
chrome fog
sleek hare
#

Does anyone know what knife did cayde use?

trim grotto
sleek hare
#

The ones in the game

#

And in general yeah

trim grotto
#

Oh, like that. Usually just throwing a knife. Sort of like Lightweight or Weighted.
Although he sort of used Knife Trick/Blade Barrage in the Prison of Elders.

sleek hare
#

So he used more than one type?

trim grotto
#

Sure. Most do.

sleek hare
#

What about the grenade
Only tripmines or did he use others?

trim grotto
#

He used what appeared to be an Incendiary during the Prison of Elders as well.

#

This is a very specific line of questioning

sleek hare
#

He isn't tied to one loadout then
Got it

trim grotto
#

Certainly not.

#

I mean, it's not like he only ever used Solar, either.

sleek hare
#

He didn't only use solar?

trim grotto
#

No. No Guardian is limited to a single element, they just have to train.

#

Solar was his preference, however.

sleek hare
#

Are weapons preferences too or did he have to use ace ?

trim grotto
trim grotto
#

I don't recall many times he used other guns, but... used a Fallen weapon once. Banshee made him a sidearm.

sleek hare
#

Ah aight got it

#

Thank you

trim grotto
#

There it is

sleek hare
#

It looks pretty cool

tawdry light
#

smash

chrome fog
#

It’s a very reliable pistol

worldly river
#

"How long has it been since you've seen the sun?" Saint asks.
"I was experimenting with Solar Light just the other day. You know this."
Osiris please lol

pure tree
#

And honestly I'm kinda happy for her

jade rampart
#

Would rohan live if we weren’t exhausted?

trim grotto
#

Probably.

pure tree
#

It seems that Eramis is thinking that Athrys might be dead, but how do you think she'd react if the witness brought her back as a scorn?

chrome fog
#

She’s want blood

pure tree
#

Considering how she hated that Phyris and Phylaks were both brought back as scorn, and those were just her close friends

#

Let alone her lover and mate

dim minnow
#

only Praksis was brought back as Scorn

chrome fog
#

Holy shit if her wife became a Scorn, oh man she’d be pissed as all hell

pure tree
#

Oh, I forgot who the exhumed tether was

#

Yeah, it's Once Phyris, Exhumed Tether, which was the boss of the moon seraph bunker

chrome fog
#

I wasn’t really thinking she thought Athrys is dead, just contemplating the possibility, but oooohhhh I can see that rallying her to our side to get the Witness

pure tree
#

I don't think thag she thinks Athrys is dead, but also I think she knows she doesn't know what happened to them in the end

dim minnow
#

apparently Arthys has been away for centuries

chrome fog
pure tree
#

I thought she was sent away not long before the creation of House Salvation

dim minnow
#

Achilles Weaves a Cocoon made it sound like she was sent away not long before the Pyramid arrived on Europa

chrome fog
#

At the very least I like they’re finally picking a lane and taking Eramis’ story somewhere instead of voicing her regret or rage, she finally acknowledges she’s been chasing nothing but hollow feelings

pure tree
#

I just want Eramis to be able to live in peace

slim elk
#

She's going back to Riis, just don't know what she'll find there.

pure tree
#

Like yeah sure, she's done some fucked up shit, but also her story has been one tragedy after another, often fueled by her own grief and emotions, for her to slip away and live in peace is the best ending I can imagine for her

slim elk
#

Older lore stuff had communications aimed at Riis, but no responses ever coming back

chrome fog
#

Which we have no indication from the lore tab, all we know is she’s somewhere far from the warpath the Eliksni took towards Earth, towards the Traveler

pure tree
#

There's the possibility of some surviving holdouts of Eliksni in their home system or the surrounding systems

#

Depending on how thorough the hive were, and considering how much more advanced they were at their golden age than humanity were

slim elk
#

Radio silent at least

pure tree
#

It could be a case like neomuna, well, maybe without the prosperity part

#

Staying radio silence to avoid being found out and destroyed by lingering hive

slim elk
#

As bionicle said, the planet got wrecked

pure tree
#

I wonder if the Eliksni ever tried to resettle or settle new planets other than in Sol

#

Like we know a lot of the survivors ended up chasing the traveler, but we don't know the full extent on how many survivors of the whirlwind there were

slim elk
#

We actually do know the biggest in Sol
They made Ceres a massive HQ (for the House of Wolves)

#

..
Mara Sov blew it up Death Star style

empty fern
#

Damn

#

Poor wolves

pure tree
#

Was it intended to be a home or a staging ground?

#

Because reading the old House of Wolves lore, it sounded like the second rather than the first

worldly river
#

Last bit concerns me slightly but maybe I'm reading into it too much

pure tree
#

The taken king will rise again

worldly river
#

Taken King Kelgorath, real

empty fern
#

Gonna put this here in case people wanna talk about hive biology CATGRIN

IMG_6534.jpg
pure tree
#

We go into the ascendant realm to kill kelgorath for good and we find his throne world is just a 3 room apartment