📚lore-discussion

[umbral dagger]

but i mean that if i think the hive were made by hiding in the dark too long or something, thats not the truth, the truth is whatever has been revealed, worms or something

[chrome fog]

I’m reaching a breaking point

[chrome fog]

I

[tawdry mauve]

wow congrats?

lol

[chrome fog]

Please, go the Cryptarchy

[tawdry mauve]

what does the words of a few community memebers have to do with anything 😭

I and 3 other people can conclude the exact opposite

[umbral dagger]

not at the moment

[tawdry mauve]

doesnt mean it means much

or anything

😭

[chrome fog]

Eat my shorts, I am leaving now, please and thank you

[tawdry mauve]

youre acting like you guys's personal head cannons are somehow cannon just because bungie likes making references to their other games, the "paraverse" exists to litterally just do that

references and easter eggs

there is 0 meaningful connection between any of their ips apart from that

nothing that happens in marathon will ever affect anything in destiny or halo, vice versa

[umbral dagger]

ah more rudeness

[tawdry mauve]

rudeness?

who?

[umbral dagger]

i mean just in general, think about how you could have worded this better

seen alot of of it here

and its just kinda a real downer to see

[tawdry mauve]

there is no way you can read someone say "eat my shorts" and then read my sentence right after and call me the rude one here 💀

[umbral dagger]

yeah i missed that

[tawdry mauve]

because you didnt care

you were just ready to call me rude

for no reason

[umbral dagger]

i honestly just missed it

and it dident come across as like mean

anyways

[tawdry mauve]

this channel does not need someone to preach about being nice and kind, because having an "argument" is not necessarily being rude to one another

sometimes you have to say certain things in a blunt way

thats just the nature of conversating

[umbral dagger]

no, its called being rude

[tawdry mauve]

you dont have to walk on egg shells and pamper every sentence because youre afraid someone will missunderstand what youre saying

[dim minnow]

At least stop using emojis

[tawdry mauve]

emojis?

what does that have to do with anything now?

[umbral dagger]

emojis are fine

[dim minnow]

Just doesn't come across as right for me

[tawdry mauve]

well im here to let you know i have no malicious intentions

when using emojis

[umbral dagger]

its just the tone ive seen here a few times, its just cosmo im picking on, ive had it thrusted in my face a few times today

[tawdry mauve]

i just use them as an inflexion

of my feelings

which is typically humour

[umbral dagger]

like this kind of toxically malice tone

[tawdry mauve]

i mean

you cant really judge tone all that well

through text

theres are reason so many people are adamant about using tone indicators

for that very reason

[umbral dagger]

come to think of it, i remember it a year ago or something when posting here

so its this chat speciifically

and the kind of people it attracts

maybe

i dunno

[jagged badge]

Dear Lord what did I miss

[ember storm]

I’m hungry

[chrome fog]

It’s not a personal handcanon because one of the central points of the original Marathon is the recurrence of the protagonist in seeking the multiple endings of that series, which has been repeated in much else that Bungie has produced. It’s why we had variable dialogue based on whether you were a veteran player or a new light prior to Beyond Light, 1) because Bungie wasn’t actually planning on the D2 character to be the same but Activision insisted, and 2) the canonicity of the player character’s experiences is meant to be entirely variable depending on each player. It’s the whole thing of “Make your own legend”, they are being bluntly literal about that same as the “Guardians make their own Fate” thing, you get to say whatever it is your guardian has done, but in the broad strokes of lore discussion we attribute all feats and actions to the same Young Wolf because it is already complicated tried to explain who the other 5 members the Young Wolf raids with when Iraís are done by multiple players whom all have equal claim to being the Young Wolf. Yes, it does not have a major impact on the greater narrative threads of Destiny as a whole for the sole purpose of not complicating shit further, but literally the evidence of inter-connectivity between their franchises is right there like with the MIDA multitool and Dares, just out of the way enough that it does have greater implications for the already complex narrative of Destiny

[jagged badge]

Oh Christ

[tawdry mauve]

actually the reason we attribute all the feats to young wolf is because everyone is cannonically playing as the young wolf

the young wolf is the one main character of destiny

[ember storm]

no you’re wrong actually I am the only person playing D2 ever

[tawdry mauve]

doesnt matter who is playing the game

[ember storm]

everyone else is lying no other copies exist

[tawdry mauve]

everyone is playing the same main character in the story

[jagged badge]

Yeah exactly

[ember storm]

the game is for me to play only

[tawdry mauve]

"but in the broad strokes of lore discussion we attribute all feats and actions to the same Young Wolf because it is already complicated tried to explain who the other 5 members the Young Wolf"

not exactly the way i would put it but alright

but you seem to harbor back to the same point about the mida references

but you fail to consider they are nothing but references to begin with

[chrome fog]

It’s semantics at its worse for your argument of the importance of these connection

[tawdry mauve]

your proof is still entirely based on your personal assumption

that these references impact the "paraverse" in any meaningful way

[chrome fog]

WHAT PERSONAL ASSUMPTION THE MIDA MULTITOOL COMES FROM OUTSIDE THE DESTINY UNIVERSE YOU FUCK

[tawdry mauve]

there is no semantics here, you just dont want to accept the fact that your "theory" is just that

a theory

[jagged badge]

Dude, tone it down

[tawdry mauve]

i would suggest you calm down

[chrome fog]

No

[tawdry mauve]

youre getting heated for no reason

it is not that serious

[chrome fog]

I kept calm with Freak i can only do it for so long

[tawdry mauve]

we are having a conversation that you are turning into a 1 sided insult match

[jagged badge]

For the record, while you’re citing Sars’ interpretation of the Young Wolf character, I’d like to say I still disagree with that myself

You can’t just say “Sars said this” as a citation for your argument imo

[chrome fog]

Whatever, fuck this, I’m done being civil for today

[tawdry mauve]

except they litterally did already do that lol

you should really calm down man

youre going to get muted for no reason

i dont care about you throwing insults but the mods certainly will

[ember storm]

I’m still hungry

[tawdry mauve]

which is the exact point i made about the fact that some people agreeing on a certain theory does not suddenly make it correct

bungie making references to mida is no different than the halo references in 30th, the difference is they still own one of those 2 ips

so they cant parody one but just the other

[dim minnow]

Ok, my computer is working again

[tawdry mauve]

its all "meta" at the end of the day

like 4th wall breaks

the audience isnt suddenly cannon to a story because the 4th wall was broken

[dim minnow]

Apparently some ransomware was trying to take it over but it was so poorly made that it just fucked my windows up to the point it wouldn't start

[tawdry mauve]

ransomware?

damn

did you install something weird?

[jagged badge]

Personally I won’t comment on the whole thing with the thread between Bungie’s games ‘cause I don’t know enough about the points and such of that theory

[dim minnow]

I'm thinking maybe it was the pirated photoshop

[jagged badge]

But there needs to be a whole lot less aggression in here

[tawdry mauve]

you mean regular photoshop

[dim minnow]

I had it for years and I got it from a high school teacher

[tawdry mauve]

you activated the sleeper agent

[dim minnow]

Unfortunately I don't know for sure if it is the cause

[tawdry mauve]

what did your av say

[dim minnow]

It was a friend of my brother's who fixed it for me

[tawdry mauve]

what did he say

[dim minnow]

And he said that it was so fucked he can't figure out where it came from either

At least he was able to copy my personal files to an external hard drive

[empty fern]

What’s the lance cap lore going on with? Did a titan use void and stasis quickly? Or stasis def and off

[tawdry mauve]

void?

he cast a barricade down and then used the exotic

"An explosion of fire sent the Warlock tumbling to the ground. As the Hunter slid over to assist, the Titan concentrated his power and formed a protective barricade"

While using a Stasis subclass and behind your rally barricade, rapid precision hits and combatant final blows with a Stasis weapon creates a Diamond Lance near you.

"But the Titan only shook his head and channeled the Darkness, becoming a pocket of serenity on the battlefield. As he concentrated, great sparkling lances formed around him, dazzlingly sharp."

[empty fern]

Neat

[dim minnow]

alright

Discord reinstalled on my computer

feels good to not have to use mobile

[jagged badge]

Me, who exclusively uses mobile

[empty fern]

(Same)

[umbral dagger]

i remember i originally thought the witness was gonna be like one of two people the other being in the traveller

lol

to me its looking less and less likely she is in the traveller now

the concept traveller woman

[jagged badge]

I hope there isn’t a humanoid person inside the Traveler tbh

To me the Traveler is the orb, but knowing that’s a shell, I honestly would prefer if the Traveler was just something that looked like the Veil

[umbral dagger]

like.. the statue?

or

[tawdry mauve]

wdym you dont like unescessary anthropomorphization

[jagged badge]

I mean the purple dragonfruit thing

[umbral dagger]

oh yeah

i kinda saw that as a portal to X

[tawdry mauve]

did you see the new ghost projection?

in the store

this is the veil-iest it has ever looked

[jagged badge]

The Veil

[jagged badge]

(formerly known as Twitter)

[umbral dagger]

i guess cayde will be there in the pale heart

but i dont actually think its him

just memories

https://dotesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/image_2023-06-21_095754579.png

then again

its clearly a woman

under a veil

[tawdry mauve]

i mean

[umbral dagger]

the veil maybe

[tawdry mauve]

does it really look like a woman

[umbral dagger]

yes

[tawdry mauve]

i mean

[dim minnow]

are you asking about the Veil statues?

[tawdry mauve]

yes

[dim minnow]

because I can give some answers to that

[tawdry mauve]

go on

[dim minnow]

mainly on what they are for

truth be told the whole symbolism on them isn't very clear

anyways

[tawdry mauve]

the question was whetever it was explicitly a statue of a veiled woman

[dim minnow]

?

well

it is?

like it is very clearly a woman covered by a Veil

hmmm, maybe it represents the Traveler and the Veil united as one?

[tawdry mauve]

clearly and covered by a veil is pretty oxymoronic dont you think

[dim minnow]

the woman underneath is the Traveler and the Veil is the Veil

[empty fern]

What’s this?

[tawdry mauve]

thats from an unused concept art

cutscene*

[empty fern]

I see

[umbral dagger]

yeah, pose it close

its the traveller

[dim minnow]

unused D1 intro cutscene sotryboard

[tawdry mauve]

it has no actual bearing on the lore discussion because its specifically unused

[dim minnow]

I don't think the woman is the Traveler itself

[umbral dagger]

sure it does, it implies intent

[dim minnow]

sure, snail react me

[umbral dagger]

regardless of if it was used

[tawdry mauve]

does it though lol

thats just an assumption then

[dim minnow]

but I gave a better description

[tawdry mauve]

look at this

[dim minnow]

I specified what it was better

[tawdry mauve]

its unused concept art

but does it suddenly imply intent?

[umbral dagger]

yup

it does

[tawdry mauve]

youre making an assumption

[umbral dagger]

if we can figure out whats what

[dim minnow]

ok, as I was saying, the Veil statues seem to be used by the Witness to reach out to people (to give them things to be specific)

[empty fern]

It’s the hive world fundament (trust me)

[tawdry mauve]

its unused for a reason

[empty fern]

I should change the story, but I have this unused concept from earlier, oh well I’m not gonna use it

[umbral dagger]

i imagine you dont study betas

for anything

[dim minnow]

for instance, the Pyramid statue in the Lunar Pyramid gave us the sphere artifact that gave us the Unveiling texts and lead us to the Black Garden

[tawdry mauve]

i do

but

in its own seperate vacuum

[umbral dagger]

why?

[tawdry mauve]

because its exactly that

lol

its own seperate thing

im a huge half life lore nerd

[umbral dagger]

but why? its all unused anyway

[dim minnow]

it also gave Eris Stasis

[tawdry mauve]

and im not going to look at the beta

to explain anything happening the release game

[umbral dagger]

well you should

[tawdry mauve]

yes its unused because they specifically didnt want to use it

which implies intent

like you say

lol

[umbral dagger]

it can help give ideas

yeah

[tawdry mauve]

my point is saying unused concept art implies intent goes both ways

yes you could say they intended for the traveller to be this woman with blue eyes because they have unused concept art for it

but it also implies the opposite

because its unused

[empty fern]

The traveler is actually
Randal the first

[tawdry mauve]

thats why looking at "concept art" is not a good point of discussion for lore stuff

[umbral dagger]

is the traveller described a gender at any point?

quick question

[tawdry mauve]

they refer to it with she pronouns

[umbral dagger]

OH

[empty fern]

Indeed

[tawdry mauve]

sometimes

[umbral dagger]

MY

[tawdry mauve]

but

[trim grotto]

Feminine on occasion

[tawdry mauve]

you fail to understand my point

💀

[umbral dagger]

what are the chances!

[tawdry mauve]

once again

[umbral dagger]

dude

[tawdry mauve]

youre completely just failing to understand what im telling you

[umbral dagger]

not playing this game with you

[trim grotto]

Destiny concept art is particularly unreliable to reference
The old D1 concept art in particular
It has tiger people and giant frogs

[tawdry mauve]

its unreliable

and thats that

there is no game to play 💀

[trim grotto]

The current point of the game is worlds away from then

[jagged badge]

And original intent doesn’t always have a bearing on what’s in game

[umbral dagger]

i dont agree

[dim minnow]

I recall that one concept art that had taken harpies

[tawdry mauve]

you dont agree that using unused concept art as any sort of bearing in a lore dicussion is bad an unreliable?

[dim minnow]

there was also an unused story concept that was shown in the 4th grimoire anthology

[umbral dagger]

im not saying ''look old concept art tells the plot''

[tawdry mauve]

youre saying it shows intent

[jagged badge]

Even if the Traveler woman thing did happen in game now, it’s more likely writers now chose to take from the concept and not that it was the intent all along too

[dim minnow]

it was vastly different than what we saw in Forsaken

[tawdry mauve]

but im saying it also shows the exact opposite

[umbral dagger]

i dident actually even say anything or make any conclusions

[umbral dagger]

yes

it does

they intended a woman to be there

[tawdry mauve]

But it litterally does the exact opposite too

since its unused

it implies intent that it specifically isnt the case

[umbral dagger]

og my god

[tawdry mauve]

which makes it unreliable

[umbral dagger]

jesus

[dim minnow]

I keep forgetting that Bungie planned on a Nightmare of Cayde to be shown before Shadowkeep

[umbral dagger]

this place is actually unbearable

[dim minnow]

then they actually brought in a Nightmare of Cayde in a lore tab in Haunted

[tawdry mauve]

?

is that all you have to say?

youve presented no actual argument

[umbral dagger]

^ look at this crap

[empty fern]

Cryptarchy

[umbral dagger]

its like a preschool

[jagged badge]

Huh?

[tawdry mauve]

youre being childlish

and saying stuff like "pre school"

[empty fern]

(Was directing them to lore server like bionicle)

Also eris why are you lurkin in here

[jagged badge]

Lurking??

[dim minnow]

I still naver even visited Cryptarchy

[empty fern]

Oh nvm I see you

[jagged badge]

I’ve been in this conversation

[umbral dagger]

yeah, its just interesting how the scenes are roughly the same with the 3 guys showing up

[empty fern]

(The blue blended shhh)

[jagged badge]

💀

[dim minnow]

the general concept of the scene remained the same
three astronauts arrive on Mars where they confront the Traveler. Then the Traveler terraforms the planet

[umbral dagger]

eitherway i doubt it or any ideas along that remain outside of maybe veiled statue woman

[umbral dagger]

yeah

[dim minnow]

Bungie could make a movie about Ares One

[jagged badge]

I spent most of my duration at actual Nasa in Cape Canaveral last year reading the Ares One lore lmao

[empty fern]

I say the veiled statue is the witness doing that one pose and moving

[trim grotto]

Some aspects of old intent followed through, I suppose. Shadows and fragments of original concepts.

[dim minnow]

like have the first act of the movie show humanity's reaction to the discovery of "Moon X"

[umbral dagger]

could be, i think sava described him as wearing darkness like a cloak

[dim minnow]

have it end with the New Orleans riot

[tawdry mauve]

new orleans what

[trim grotto]

True. A wielder and controller of Darkness, but not a being of Darkness.

[dim minnow]

then the second act has the preparations for Ares One with Jacob Hardy, Qiao, Mihaylova, and Evie Calamut

[trim grotto]

Anywho I've got to get back to work again

[umbral dagger]

maybe the blue eyed woman kinda became mara sov or whatever her name is

[dim minnow]

well see, in the brief time between Humanity discovering the Traveler and the Golden Age, there was a riot in New Orleans caused by two opposing "Moon X" cults

[jagged badge]

Evie Calumet my beloved (there’s not much about her but she has a pretty name and she didn’t deserve to die)

[dim minnow]

before the Traveler was given the name "Traveler" by Evie Calamut, humanity called it "Moon X"

[tawdry mauve]

yeah i know about the moon x stuff

[dim minnow]

she got HAL 9000ed by R.

[tawdry mauve]

just didnt know about the new orleans riot

[jagged badge]

[dim minnow]

it was only briefly talked over in Season 3 Eververse armor

I remember when Eververse gear had lore tabs

I miss it

[umbral dagger]

ive totally missed anything with mara since witch queen

she was like getting a bit dark

[dim minnow]

Defiance did have Mara play a key role

[umbral dagger]

is she falling to the witness?

[dim minnow]

she gave us some of her power so we can traverse the Ascendant Plane and break into Shadow Legion prisons

[dim minnow]

I don't think so

she seems to have been humbled though

[ember storm]

the entire point of Mara’s appearance in WQ was her changing because she didn’t want to

and she’s been improving since

[tawdry mauve]

i think she specifically decided against being a disciple

something about free will and stuff

[dim minnow]

Petra though

[umbral dagger]

okay

[dim minnow]

Petra has refused to change

[tawdry mauve]

basically the final shape sucks for everyone except the witness

[empty fern]

Dova

[tawdry mauve]

because you have no actual free will in the final shape

its like a perfect snapshot

of existance

[empty fern]

Just link your Petra rant before you start

[ember storm]

don’t ask D2cord user Dovadah’s opinion on the fictional character Petra Venj

you will die

[tawdry mauve]

i like petra :)

[empty fern]

[dim minnow]

even though she is fiercely loyal to Mara, I still think there is a way she can turn against Mara

[ember storm]

kinda like a “worships the idea, not the actual person” situation?

[umbral dagger]

be cool for her and her brother to reunite

like for real

[tawdry mauve]

uldren and mara?

[umbral dagger]

yeah

[tawdry mauve]

they did already

[dim minnow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1119631192816357526/1158678948822138940/soreall.gif?ex=651d1f5c&is=651bcddc&hm=02ada982c1a086b8e76cb6eb479d5e0170c0e159838205f10d16f778e0ec68b6&

[umbral dagger]

oh

more stuff i missed

[jagged badge]

Slight issue there

[tawdry mauve]

basically mara blames herself for what uldren became

[jagged badge]

Uldren dead

[tawdry mauve]

but she likes crow

i think

[ember storm]

I mean first off is Uldren is dead

[dim minnow]

Mara and Crow have been keeping their distance from each other

[ember storm]

so there’s no way for them to reunite

[dim minnow]

ever since Savathun restored his memories

[tawdry mauve]

mara is definetely the reason uldren became the asshole he was

[empty fern]

I haven’t read between the lines of sibling love and ruler yet

[ember storm]

Mara acknowledges and respects that Crow is a different person

[tawdry mauve]

without even being corrupted by riven

[dim minnow]

though they have been reconciling a bit since Defiance

[tawdry mauve]

ouch

:(

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-uldren-sov-gaming-gif-17095094

[tawdry mauve]

why do you hate petra so much

[tawdry mauve]

he was such a smug ass bitch

[empty fern]

Cosmo what have you done

[tawdry mauve]

i love him

[dim minnow]

you haven't read the list?

[tawdry mauve]

drop it on me

[umbral dagger]

i forget that guardians arent the original people

but dead people with a blank slate

[candid inlet]

dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

Message Link to #📚lore-discussion

1. She was forced to work in the Last City as an Emissary as punishment for calling an airstrike that killed 3 fireteams of Guardians and their Ghosts who were fighting deeply entrenched Fallen Wolves.
2. While in exile, she showed great disdain towards the people of the city thinking that the "don't know their place".
3. Between Red War and Forsaken, when Cayde apprehended Fikrul and Uldren, she decided to lock Uldren up in the Prison of Elders alongside Fikrul and the other Scorn Barons and made sure only her, Cayde, and Variks were the only ones to know that the Prince was still alive.
4. After this, she left the task of curing Uldren and Fikrul's respective conditions solely on Variks' shoulders which could be seen as one of the leading factors behind his decision to abandon the Prison starting the vents of Forsaken. Could of asked techeuns or even the Last City to help, but no, must not make her people any less happy I guess.
5. She heavily despises Zavala even going to the point to where she fantasizes about being superior to him and mopping up his dissolved remains off of the floor. Not even joking here.
6. I really doubt she had no idea what Uldren was planning until she failed to stop him at the EDZ. She may not have known about Riven being behind it, but she had to know that Uldren took over the Tangled Shore so he could get to the Dreaming City. Maybe the Vanguard would have gotten involved if they knew Uldren could unleash a Taken Ahamkara, and maybe the Dreaming City fisaco wouldn't have been so bad. Instead Petra kept it a secret until after Uldren was able to reach his goal.
7. She wasn't even the one who summoned Guardians to aid the Awoken in the Dreaming City, that would be Paladin Kamala Rior.
8. Variks questioned quite a few of Petra's decisions as acting regent, including her lack of action towards preventing the Scorned Barons from growing in power.
9. Despite everything that has happened thus far, she has refused to change unlike Mara.

Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from · Jul 13, 2023, 3:46 AM

[tawdry mauve]

oh

its an actual list

i thought you were joking

[jagged badge]

Kinda

We do see Guardians seeming to share some characteristics with their old selves

[empty fern]

Now read
READ COSMO READ

[umbral dagger]

any memories slip through?

from past life

[jagged badge]

Not to my knowledge

[empty fern]

Does savathun count?

[tawdry mauve]

without any external help

no

[empty fern]

Damn

[ember storm]

not at all

[tawdry mauve]

crow has most of uldrens memories i think though

[ember storm]

why would she count

[jagged badge]

All of his memories really

[tawdry mauve]

yes

[empty fern]

Just lightbearers and memory talk

[tawdry mauve]

well now the question is does he have like the straight up memories, or did he get a presentation of the events like we did with savathun

[jagged badge]

Right back to, apparently, before his ‘rebirth’ in the Distributary

[dim minnow]

Exo guardians are able to remember their old names

[tawdry mauve]

yeah because they are kinda hardwired into their bodies

[ember storm]

some of them

not all

[empty fern]

I think glint explained most of it

[jagged badge]

The Nightmare of Uldren mocked Crow about them begging Mara to be remade iirc

[dim minnow]

and maybe some memories if Cayde is anything to go by

[jagged badge]

I thought it was that the Ghost could see the names, not that they remembered it?

[dim minnow]

though these memories are heavily fragmented

[tawdry mauve]

wasnt that just the reoccurring dreams

about the dsc

that other exos also had

[jagged badge]

Doesn’t Shiro ask his Ghost “why Shiro?”?

[dim minnow]

I think it is different

[tawdry mauve]

i remember when i first got into the lore

i started reading up the exos and dsc

without even knowing about the raid

and i thought it was the coolest thing ever

and then i saw the raid was instantly disappointed

[dim minnow]

and Saint-14's DSC dreams are different too

[ember storm]

it’s your fault for thinking something called the deep stone crypt would be a tower

[tawdry mauve]

no its not about its actual physical location

[dim minnow]

instead of an icy wasteland it is in a grassy field

[tawdry mauve]

more so its this mysterious thing

that we got an answer to

[dim minnow]

well

[tawdry mauve]

but if you ask me we didnt need to

[dim minnow]

there is a tower

in the Exo Simulations

[ember storm]

the exo simulations yes

[tawdry mauve]

i would have loved for the dsc to just remain a mystery

[ember storm]

that’s not the DSC

[dim minnow]

which is likely what the DSC dreams are tied to

[tawdry mauve]

also making cyborg taniks the boss of dsc

[ember storm]

Taniks was always a cyborg

[tawdry mauve]

yes

he was

but during dsc he was extra cyborg

he cyborged so hard

[empty fern]

That one poor lieutenant of eremis that got reduced to a lost sector side boss

[ember storm]

I just want a reverse Taniks now

[empty fern]

A fallen wyvern?

[ember storm]

no, his robotic legs stuck to a heavy shank engine that just sprint at you and explode

[empty fern]

Terror

[empty fern]

Reminds me of crota in media chat (go look)

[tawdry mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/sentrybuster-sentry-buster-tf2-team-fortress2-gif-23271011

[ember storm]

no, I don’t think I will

[empty fern]

Damn you

[ember storm]

SENTRY BUSTER, PYRO THROW IT BACK

[tawdry mauve]

just rescue ranger it smh

[ember storm]

nah I just carry it right next to my medic

[tawdry mauve]

whats funny is that in game the sentry busters are just large demobots with the ulapool caber

they just use a different world model

[ember storm]

yes and merasmus uses sniper’s rig

[tawdry mauve]

yep

i mean it is just sniper

[ember storm]

I just miss the shitty skeletons

[tawdry mauve]

same

they had charm

[ember storm]

they look too good now

[tawdry mauve]

i dont miss helltower

though

having to do helltower contracts

and having to actually complete matches was impossible

i would spend hours in 1 game

[little gorge]

maybe in the eramis dungeon

[ember storm]

ghostfort better (worse)

also why is it fucking called ghostfort

[tawdry mauve]

2ghost

[little gorge]

you can't convince me there's not an eramis dungeon because where else is she supposed to go

[ember storm]

hell

[little gorge]

there's no eliksni episode and she's probably not going to the pale heart

[tawdry mauve]

my all time favourite map in the game has to be uh, highpass and harvest

im a koth kid

cool like that

[little gorge]

well in what content is she going there

[ember storm]

I mean any scorn plot relevance is going to include eliksni probably

[little gorge]

inb4 ofscreen

[ember storm]

there was already the seeds planted in seraph with her having to lie through her teeth about being happy her friends were resurrected

[little gorge]

idk if it will enough to be the conclusion to eramis' story

unless she just becomes a scorn

[ember storm]

she’ll probably do an Amanda style death to kill herself and the fanatic or something to make sure he can’t be revived

[umbral dagger]

last thing i was from her was she tried to kabonk the traveller

[little gorge]

she appeared in defiance too

[umbral dagger]

ironic that all this stems from the travellers lack of communication

[jagged badge]

Bakris?

[ember storm]

nobody cares about Bakris

[dim minnow]

not even Lost Sector boss

legit rented a Lost Sector

[tawdry mauve]

yeah bakris isnt a boss

she is just there

the servitor is the boss

[dim minnow]

Bakris is a she?

ok yep, seems to be

Word is, she brought along a trusted sergeant, Bakris, the Adamantine, and empowered her with Stasis as a demonstration of the forces at her disposal. Shaw suspects the sergeant has remained in the Cosmodrome in order to ensure the Devils follow through on their pledge to relocate to Europa.

I think I already figured this out I just forgot about it

[jagged badge]

Is that the one reference to Bakris by personal pronouns?

[dim minnow]

yes

[jagged badge]

I just looked at different sources on Ishtar and couldn’t see anything

[ember storm]

hey I’m playing FF9 what should I name the character

suggestions are open

[jagged badge]

So I must’ve missed that

[jagged badge]

Bakris

[ember storm]

doesn’t fit

[jagged badge]

Damn that’s a really short character count then

[ember storm]

no he just doesn’t look like a Bakris

[jagged badge]

[ember storm]

he’s a 16 year old with a monkey tail

[jagged badge]

Sun Wukong?

[dim minnow]

this is from the BL interaction with Shaw Han

[jagged badge]

Oh I see it now

I didn’t scroll far enough

Silly me

[umbral dagger]

any other good youtuber for lore

outside of byf

[devout nimbus]

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[devout nimbus]

Uh

Idk if it's not here

Yw

[umbral dagger]

😔

[trim grotto]

Myelin is a good choice

He has plenty of theory but his actual facts are checked by a buddy of mine who writes for him

[jagged badge]

Silly Mael

How is the trumpet meant to work if it’s cut in half?

🙄

[orchid wedge]

GoS lore

[trim grotto]

Very well

[jagged badge]

No I mean you can just slam the two halves together

Just backspace the gap between ‘em

Like this

[trim grotto]

   ![myelinDOOT1](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1067173777118613525.webp?size=128 "myelinDOOT1")

Did I do it

[jagged badge]

Close enough

[ember storm]

is that dougdoug

[peak coral]

@trim grotto

wait nvm

he IS byf

[orchid wedge]

I wanna know Rhulks lore and why he simply couldn’t escape his own ship

[fresh zephyr]

Wellspring contained him within it

After it started weakening we went in

[orchid wedge]

I wonder what would’ve happened if he got out

[dim minnow]

had he powered up the Upended then Savathun's Throne world would have been left in utter Darkness

at least that is what I think the Upended will do

[orchid wedge]

That’s the glaive thing right?

[dim minnow]

Rhulk never really described what it did all too much

[dim minnow]

no, the Upended is that large cubeish thing

where we fight him

[orchid wedge]

Ohhhh

[dim minnow]

it uses Xita as fuel

[orchid wedge]

I thought that was just a huge sleeping chamber

[dim minnow]

Xita is the name of the worm god below the Upended

[orchid wedge]

Those bone looking things

She’s the mother of all worm gods correct?

[dim minnow]

not sure if all of them?

at the very least the mother of the original 5 we knew about

[trim grotto]

Xol, Akka, Eir, Ur, Yul

[dim minnow]

box thing is Upended, Xita is below it

[orchid wedge]

And that red thing is where her mouth is right

[trim grotto]

Right in the centre, yes

Below the Upended

[orchid wedge]

Why did she agree to this

If she knew this was finna happen

[trim grotto]

She didn't have much of a choice.

[dim minnow]

in exchange for her servitude, her children would be fed

pretty much

[trim grotto]

Go ahead Dova I'm busy anyway haha

[orchid wedge]

Ohhh

Well we’re they fed?

Or just..

Lied to

[dim minnow]

well they got corrupted and killed each other

seemed like Xol, Akka, Yul, Eir, and Ur were the only surviving worm gods down there

then there is Ahsa who was also one of them (though she isn't corrupted)

[orchid wedge]

And we killed Xol right?

[dim minnow]

she escaped and used Ascendant Plane travel to reach Sol since she was following the Travler

[dim minnow]

yes, we "killed" him

then we followed his whispers to the caverns of Io where we found the Whisper of the Worm

he literally turned himself into an exotic gun

so he can feed from us using him

[orchid wedge]

Lmao

Bro didn’t want the smoke

So he committed

[dim minnow]

he did want the smoke

so we can use him to give smoke out

his plan was for us to kill him

[orchid wedge]

Oryx definitely got the smoke

[dim minnow]

so he can do that stuff

well Xol did try to get rid of Oryx at one point

but the other Worm Gods intervened and now we have to deal with Golgoroth

[orchid wedge]

Golgoroth is just a huge orge with extra features

That was made from god knows what

[dim minnow]

and you also wanted to know more about Rhulk right?

[orchid wedge]

Si

All I know is that he’s connected with a lot of story

[dim minnow]

ok, lemme pull out Ishtar

ok, so Rhulk came from a planet called Lubrae which was previously blessed by the Traveler

[orchid wedge]

Lubrae

I’m guessing they all looked the same

[dim minnow]

it has two suns one of them being blue

I think the Lubraeans take energy from the blue star

anyways, the Traveler left the Lubraeans and things got messy there

there was a group of Lubraeans who left the cities and became nomads surviving the harsh environment

this clan was where Rhulk was from

then there was a group of Lubraeans who came from the city who hunted Rhulk's clan

these guys were called "Stalkers"

at some point, Rhulk and his father were fighting a group of Stalkers

Rhulk stacks some bodies and takes one of their Glaives for himself

meanwhile his father is captured by the Stalkers

[orchid wedge]

I’m listening

:>

[dim minnow]

also the other sun I menationed seems to be "umbral"

[orchid wedge]

Umbral?

[dim minnow]

anyways, a lot of Rhulk's clan is killed after this attack, but they manage to escape the Stalkers

Rhulk is thinking of revenge

then Rhulk is given a flashback by the Witness of him killing a small family pet with his bare hands

I'm currently reading through Shattered Suns (Rhulk's backstory)

[orchid wedge]

Ohh

[dim minnow]

trying to summarize it for you

[orchid wedge]

I understand it

[dim minnow]

the entire lore book is Rhulk recollecting his thoughts with the Witness

so anyways the Witness is gaslighting Rhulk

Rhulk sees how vicious he is and how his family are concerned with how he kills Stalkers

and the Witness is trying to make this out as good

fast forward a year after his father was captured and Rhulk is kicked out of his clan

they didn't like how brutal he was

Rhulk goes on a Stalker killing spree trying to find his father which he does

however he finds out that his father is now siding with the regime that hunts his clan

[orchid wedge]

That’s where the betrayal part comes from

Ahhhh

I get it now

[dim minnow]

not quite yet

there's more

so Rhulk's father (Rhelik), convinces the regime to spare Rhulk's life and recruit him as a Stalker

Rhulk starts to enjoy his new life as a Stalker

he gets to live comfortably

and such

Rhulk starts to like the Regime

then Rhulk finds out that his father was never loyal to the Regime in the first place

this is what sets him off

because Rhulk values honesty above most things

another flashback and we see Rhelik brutally kills three Stalkers like Rhulk did

he would have been kicked out like Rhulk would eventually, so he had to soften up

basically Rhulk just started to hate everyone at this point

everyone was hypocritical and stupid

so then Rhulk kills his father and goes after the rest of his clan

he would then end up at the Abyss

the Abyss is a large crack in Lubrae's surface

he finds them there where they attempt to go into the city to abandon their risky life

they try to appeal to Rhulk and let him lower his guard

then they throw him into the Abyss

Rhulk survived the fall but was badly injured, this is when he met the Witness

it used its power to save him from the beasts that approached him

Rhulk's glaive is repaird and improved

he rises up from the Abyss and makes his way to the city where his clan remains

he then proceeds to slaughter them all

and finally, he reverses the power of the blue sun using the Witness' "luster"

[ebon relic]

Qui pour m aider à la cité des rêves pour invoqué les boss devant la porte

[dim minnow]

and the entirety of Lubrae is in ruin with Rhulk being the last one

after this, he throws himself into the Abyss again in a suicide attempt only to be stopped by the Witness who forces him to relive everything until Rhulk is gaslit into becoming the Witness' first disciple

that's pretty much his backstory as shown in Shattered Suns

[orchid wedge]

Oh that’s crazy fr

[dim minnow]

then there is what he does to create the Hive, his folly with the Ahslids, and him babysitting Savathun

[orchid wedge]

No way bro took care of a murderous god

[dim minnow]

So basically, Rhulk goes into the depths of Fundament, he tears out one of the Leviathan's ribs, and meets Xita

he gives Xita the offer to have her children fed in exchange for her servitude

which she reluctantly accepts since she knows she has little choice

then Rhulk uses the rib like a hook to carry Xita out of Fundament and into his Pyramid to power the Upended

meanwhile the Witness has Rhulk send off Xita's larvae to the shores of the Osmium kingdom

which sets of a series of events that ends in the Hive being created

[orchid wedge]

Witness is just pure evil

Bro just wants to kill everyone

For what tho

[dim minnow]

for its purpose

to end the suffering Light can create

now then onto the Ahslids

so the Ahslids are a rather timid race which Rhulk was sent to guide into the Witness' service

Rhulk was ordered to not cause any issues for the Ahslids and to ensure that they would bow before the Witness

Rhulk stalks them alone to see if he can goad any of them into showing some spine but to no avail, so he resorts to violence

as a result they start dividing and appointing authorities

essentially forming separate nations

Rhulk then comes upon a group of infant Ahslids which he raises himself

he names the youngest of them "Uun"

Uun manages to draw his first blood but is left scared

he turns away from Rhulk's rewards

fast forward and Rhulk's progeny start killing and sowing fear into the Ahslids

Uun is cast away seen as a disappointment

in the end, the Ahslids are burned away by atomic fire with Uun as the sole survivor

Uun faces Rhulk, but is defeated

he asks Rhulk who he is and Rhulk, in failure of his task, answers

now onto the last part

as punishment for his failure with the Ahslids, Rhulk is left in Savathun's Tronw World indefinitely so he could groom Savathun into becoming a Disciple like him

[orchid wedge]

But he failed ofc

[dim minnow]

yeah, he didn't foresee Savathun returning to her Throne World with the Light and trapping him in the Pyramid there

[orchid wedge]

So is he like an adoptive father to her?

[dim minnow]

I'd say more like a reluctant mentor

he was never really fond of them and had much apprehension at first

[orchid wedge]

Well we can be thankful he didn’t kill them

Or else kings fall wouldn’t be a thing

[jagged badge]

Is there any indication when this happened?

Considering the Hive are older than Earth, I’ve always loved the idea that Rhulk has been grounded that long

[dim minnow]

it was definitely before Oryx's death

[jagged badge]

I never considered it could have been that close tbh

[dim minnow]

we don't exactly know how far from Oryx's death it was, but we at least know it had to be a while before it

[jagged badge]

I hope it’s as far as before Earth existed because that’s just funny

It’d really put into perspective how long-lived they are that Rhulk could be grounded that long

Also kinda shows how the Witness doesn’t seem to really need the Disciples if it can afford to keep Rhulk out the way that long

But most importantly because it’s funny

[dim minnow]

I think it's more likely the Witness began to see him as more of a liability at the time

he was specifically told to recruit the Ahslids as discreetly as possible

and he messed it up hard

funny

his clan considered him a liability for his wrath

[jagged badge]

Yeah that’s why I like to phrase it as Rhulk being grounded

[dim minnow]

meanwhile the Witness enabled it, and now it began to see why they had a point

also rather funny to think that Rhulk already knew what we were capable of before Vow

yet he still refused to take us seriously

[orchid wedge]

Da heck is the leviathan doing near the moon

[umbral dagger]

whats the fungus doing?

how exactly is it related to darkness?

because memory?

[jagged badge]

Calus parked it there

Back during Season of the Haunted

[orchid wedge]

Where was it originally?

[jagged badge]

He plotted to merge his consciousness with the Lunar Pyramid. We stopped him. Now the Leviathan is abandoned

[jagged badge]

We had no idea

[orchid wedge]

We should lowkey steal it

[autumn bolt]

Frr

[orchid wedge]

Tired of the helm

We need

L.E.V.I.A.T.H.A.N

Not

[jagged badge]

It’s infested with Eggregore and Nightmares

[orchid wedge]

H.E.L.M

[orchid wedge]

We can handle that easy

[blazing wasp]

Given that a entire team of guardians eliksni and cabal struggled with a single calus statue

Eh

[autumn bolt]

Mhm

[arctic iron]

this however

we cannot handle

[jagged badge]

[umbral dagger]

so i guess they are called the witness

because they witnessed the truth in the dark

but what was that truth?

the origins thing doesent make it clear

unless its unsaid atm

[blazing wasp]

we dont really know

[umbral dagger]

could it be that the final shape is something that can be achieved?

by combining traveller with the veil

eh, i guess it could be anything

[jagged badge]

It witnessed someone stealing its food from the employee fridge

[arctic iron]

canon event

[pure tree]

That's a reasonable reaction

[little gorge]

"the universe makes us victim and perpetrator of its infinite cruelty"

[empty fern]

“It proceeds to put spicy food in the employee fridge”

[fresh zephyr]

where are eir ur and yul now

are they even significant to the hive anymore ?

[dim minnow]

we haven't really gotten any updates on them

Ur might not be doing too well given Savathun's betrayal

Eir is probably also not doing too well due to the continued downfall of Oryx's broods

Yul is with Xivu Arath I think

[fresh zephyr]

You think they’ll be even a part of final shape or are they just background now

[dim minnow]

not quite sure

the Witness did want to use their powers

[He knew of our strengths. Our powers. To grip the mind and guide. To fill it with vitality and power. To reduce it to rot and waste.]

[urban light]

pretty wild that humanity is the least long-living species in the known universe at ~300 years. I didnt know the midnight coup took place ~1000 years ago thats wild

[empty fern]

wild

[urban light]

yeah its pretty wild

crazy, even

[smoky rose]

It’s a fairly common sci-fi trope

Or even fantasy

[empty fern]

that’s crazy

[fiery copper]

i mean when our competition are space elves, space orcs, space robots, space lobsters, and primordial gods of death, i'd say we're doing the best we can

[urban light]

understandable

[pure tree]

its weird to think that the midnight coup, the last major thing we know of happening in the cabal before the invasion of sol, might have happened around the same time as the golden age, the mystical age of humanity that has fallen into myth and legends

[empty fern]

The cabal empire collapse?

[fiery copper]

Physically yes

They no longer have a planetary empire

However, they do still have a population, an empress, and an imperial mindset.

[empty fern]

Oh yea

[smoky rose]

A refugee empire I suppose

[wind belfry]

rip the eliksni taking L after L

[gentle geyser]

Bungie deciding to use the cousin’s nephew for the 12th hive season

Erasing the hive bloodline ong

[wind belfry]

id prefer a hive season over ANOTHER awoken season

[gentle geyser]

Tbf I agree but still

A fallen season with actual fallen armor when

(Never)

[wind belfry]

need that 🙏

[empty fern]

Best I can do is splicer lightkin

[gentle geyser]

Bungie devs on their way to making every enemy type of the hive able to be remade in customization and then add a just barely fallen themed set

[little gorge]

that's because hive are cool

[gentle geyser]

Fallen cooler

Also hive overused

[ember storm]

tangled shore, scatterhorn, lightkin, splicer, ketchkiller, plunder

not a bad number

definitely better than cabal

[gentle geyser]

Multiple of those are just barely counting

Im just salty because bungie screws over the fallen a lot

[ember storm]

in what way

[runic widget]

Whats the lore reason for bungie being so proficient at killing their own game? Are they stupid??

[ebon summit]

lore wise, what makes d2 stand out from d1

[trim grotto]

Lore wise? We've had six years of lore since D2 launched. It's twice as old as D1. There's just... so much more.

[ebon summit]

how about we break the stories down, what was the main conflict in d1 compared to d2?

[trim grotto]

Depends on which point in time you're referring to. Expansions, that is. The Black Heart, Crota, Oryx. The Devil Splicers, Fallen Houses.

I'll discuss more later. I'm busy for a few hours, I'm afraid.

[empty fern]

D1 story (I think)
The black heart
Crota
Skolas
Oryx the taken
The devil splicers
D2 story (I think)
Ghaul invades and calus appears
Osiris is found
Rasputin main system and xol
House of salvation (and start of seasons)
Savathun revealed
Calus finally dies in lf
And finally final shape

(I will not elaborate on d1 dlcs because I’m too old to remember them)

But also seasons are a major part of story

[runic widget]

What happened to the d1 cabal? Did they all just ditch their old armor and join the red legion?

[trim grotto]

Actually, yes. That's exactly what they did.

[empty fern]

We killed them a little too much

[dim minnow]

I like Awoken seasons though

Dreaming City has some of the best visuals and music in the game

you know this made me realize

back in Lost, the right wing of the Helm was Awoken with an Awoken ship to the side

when Seraph came around, the same wing was used with a Warmind design, but the Awoken ship was still there

since the next one is another Awoken season, the right wing will likely be all Awoken once again and the ship will probably still be there

[empty fern]

Oh I remember that, poor Petra’s ship got lost in the wall and remains to this day

Was it seraph?

Oh also that tower map, the small one, hangars in there

[dim minnow]

the what?

[dim minnow]

last seasons of the year normally take the right wing of the helm

[empty fern]

The one crucible map

Not midtown

Banner fall yea

[dim minnow]

what about Bannerfall?

are you talking about that secret hangar with the ship?

the one that had a switch you could activate in D1?

[empty fern]

Oh didn’t know it did that

[dim minnow]

so what were you talking about then?

[empty fern]

Oh just hangars in general

[dim minnow]

well Bannerfall is a Tower

one of the Towers

I think the Tower we always go to is the last one in use

[empty fern]

Oh?

Well that makes sense since it’s on a wall

[dim minnow]

anyways, I actually had an interesting thought about Mara and the Witness

what if Mara is a similar type of entity to the Witness

I'm not saying Mara is an egregore though

[empty fern]

How so? Like how she became awoken?

[dim minnow]

I'm referring to Mara's very potent psychic abilities

[empty fern]

Ohh

[dim minnow]

which grant her a lot of power over the Ascendant Plane

also it is implied that Mara could literally split the Dreaming City in two

[empty fern]

Did she have more control over it than someone like oryx?

[dim minnow]

hmmm

[empty fern]

(Not referencing shattered throne)

[dim minnow]

well, post Oryx death maybe

[empty fern]

Kek

[dim minnow]

Mara did some Oryx fuckery which helped her destroy a Pyramid

we don't really know what it was though

we just know that it may have had something to do with him

[empty fern]

No techeuns involved?

[dim minnow]

just Mara and Eris were there

[empty fern]

Eris before she tithed? (When did this happen)

[dim minnow]

between mid-Forsaken (after the final Queen's Court visit with her) and Shadowkeep

[empty fern]

Ohhhh

Wait damn

[dim minnow]

there was actually a lore entry that referred to this

that came out in the start of Season of the Drifter

but we had no idea that any of that happened because it wasn't until WQ CE that Bungie elaborated on it

turns out Fenchurch found a Pyramid shard that Eris imprinted a "message" onto

[empty fern]

How she do that?

[dim minnow]

this message showed Mara patching up a wound on Eris' thigh while they were surrounded by debris from the destroyed ship

[dim minnow]

Eris Morn is already savvy when it comes to weird magic

[empty fern]

Fair enough

[dim minnow]

back in Taken King, she teleported us to a safer spot in Crota's Throne World

[empty fern]

How did fenchurch react to this

[jagged badge]

He went to go ask Eris about the vision

ERI-223 was reticent to discuss whether the event in my vision had actually occurred. I expressed my frustration with her evasiveness, given the distance I had traveled and my well-established loyalties. ERI-223 invoked the threat of SAV as a reason to favor secrecy. I asked whether she had been too much influenced by VIP #0704's habits of distrust. She did not reply. As a social gesture, I offered to share my pineapple fried rice, which caused her tremendous distress. After collecting the remnants of the meal, I left.

[dim minnow]

9. The duration of the hallucination was approximately seven seconds. At its conclusion, my headache disappeared. My Ghost and I held our position for the next thirty minutes, then collected the body of the Thrall and the fragment for transportation. I delivered myself and my cargo to quarantine and experienced no further mental disturbances while detained.

8. At this point, I broke protocol and did not request additional backup. Instead, I picked up the fragment by hand and immediately experienced a vivid hallucination: I stood over VIP #0704's shoulder as she dressed a seven-inch gash on agent ERI-223's thigh. Both #0704 and ERI-223 were dressed for combat. Hundreds of fragments of the unknown material hung in the air around us, apparent shrapnel from the wreckage of a nearby ship of unrecognizable make and model. ERI-223 looked directly toward me and said, "Патетическая."

this is the vision he saw specifically

I think the russian said "pathetic"

[empty fern]

Weird

He’s got code names? And eris knows Russian?

[trim grotto]

That wasn't really Eris

[dim minnow]

well Savathun did say that Eris was from old Russia before she died

which we know is false

[jagged badge]

They’re both Hidden agents and Mara is a VIP

So they have codenames/Mara’s VIP number in Hidden documents like that

[dim minnow]

Eris was the one who sent the vision to Fenchurch though

[jagged badge]

I don’t get the reaction

[empty fern]

Oh don’t think too much on it

You think femchurch sold the fragment afterward?

[dim minnow]

no, he turned it over to the Vanguard

[jagged badge]

Yeah I got it for like 5000 silver

[dim minnow]

Fenchurch himself is a Hidden Agent

[empty fern]

Eris eris or you eris

[jagged badge]

Wouldn’t you like to know

[empty fern]

This is literally the first I’ve heard of this wtf

[dim minnow]

funny to think about how Mara actually died after she and Eris destroyed that Pyramid

as in she died a second time

[jagged badge]

No it’s not, it’s the second you’ve heard of this

I just told you above

[empty fern]

Ohhh

Shush

My illiterate self thought Mara was both agent and vip

[jagged badge]

And then Eris had to go solo flawless Shattered Throne

[dim minnow]

I need to get back on my "Mara is a similar entity to the Witness" idea

so Mara's mind is actually partly connected to the other Awoken if I'm correct

[empty fern]

Oh yea

[empty fern]

(First I’ve heard of it)

[jagged badge]

I think I recall something like that

[dim minnow]

like she can reach out to them mentally, though earthborn Awoken are very hard to reach

[empty fern]

What other awoken are there besides earthborne? (Weren’t they all on exodus green?)

[trim grotto]

Earthborn doesn't refer to that, actually

[jagged badge]

Earthborn Awoken are Awoken who were born on Earth after some Awoken left the Reef

Some Awoken are the original Awoken, some were born in the Distributary, and some are Reefborn

[empty fern]

Oh yea

[trim grotto]

Reefborn are OG Awoken and those born on the Reef and who still belong to the Reef
Earthborn either abandoned the Reef or were literally born on Earth

[empty fern]

Wait I can’t make that convo here

[dim minnow]

and thus their connection to Mara was heavily hindered

[trim grotto]

Yes, Awoken and Humans can and have had kids

[empty fern]

Anyways

Witness Mara

[outer dragon]

I have been bonked for asking but hey do you

[outer dragon]

Ima need sauce
Only Awoken I am aware of with a child is Zavala and Hakim(sp?) was adopted

[trim grotto]

Hakim was just a human and yes he was adopted

As for a sawse

They bred true with each other and sometimes hybridized with Humans, and in the course of centuries, many forgot the Distributary and even the Reef.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/revanche-v

[outer dragon]

Ahh

I forget sometimes the Dreaming City has so much lore

[empty fern]

Is this icon the giant, “contraption” in the sky?

[pure tree]

How many awoken do you think exist in the Distributary?

Like they existed for billions of years before Maras group left, and then it would have been millions or billions of years since considering the difference in the passage of time between it and real space

[empty fern]

However many were on the exodus green (I don’t know how many sadly)

[dim minnow]

Well we do know how many firstborn there were

[empty fern]

Oh

[pure tree]

Yeah

[dim minnow]

I forget the exact number

[empty fern]

Mf

[outer dragon]

We know exactly how many were on the Exodus Green and there were 9 fewer Firstborn than that

[pure tree]

Like I was thinking, if the Awoken were sterile and all that was left was all that was on Exodus Green minus 9, then the earthborn leaving and a lot dying, the reef wars, taken war, scorn, and xivu araths invasions would have made them very much at risk of extinction

[dim minnow]

The nine missing I think are still Awoken

So you can still count them

As for where they are, their minds are racing down the Jupiter-Io Flux tube

[empty fern]

Oh no

That doesn’t sound very well

[dim minnow]

we'll have to see

but I was wondering, do you guys think that the Witness "created" Mara

[empty fern]

Weird, like witness made Elsie time loop?

[dim minnow]

like maybe that is why Mara was so shook by the Witness when she met it

[dim minnow]

I don't think we know for certain who is behind that

[empty fern]

Kek

[jagged badge]

The characters seem to believe it’s the Traveler

Not that that’s a definitive answer, mind you

[pure tree]

I've always thought the distributary in terms of how its described in its original form sounds kinda like a Final Shape lite

Idk why tho

[outer dragon]

There was a scene at the start of the Parasite quest where Mara talks to something.
The question is who/what

[dim minnow]

you know what, the Witness being behind Mara's rebirth as an Awoken would be a pretty crazy twist

[empty fern]

Keep it in the notes for later use in the future

[dim minnow]

and it could explain her abilities since I see some parallels between her powers and the Witness'

next season's inkblot cutscene?

[outer dragon]

My initial guess was a techeun but now im not sure

https://youtu.be/_h7p2ri5m7Y?si=sApAROBZGLs6rJDe

This one

[empty fern]

Speaking of tech witches, wonder what that white robed one in the helm is investigating (and why we can “inspect” it)

[outer dragon]

That has been there since the start of the first season this year too

[pure tree]

Do we know why the taken techeuns could be recovered from the taken?

[outer dragon]

Because of a wish

[dim minnow]

they never really elaborated

[pure tree]

Ah

[dim minnow]

wait they did?

[outer dragon]

Thats what i was told last time I asked

[pure tree]

I heard from somewhere it was from Maras wish to keep them safe or smth

But idk

[dim minnow]

I initially thought it was due to Awoken being of both Light and of Dark

[empty fern]

Nah, it’s the awoken in that tube thing dovah talked about, (trust me )

[dim minnow]

but maybe it has to do with their mental abilities

[brittle mortar]

Is Saint 14 an exo?

[dim minnow]

they were really foreshadowing the Veil for a while

[outer dragon]

Yes

[brittle mortar]

Cool

[empty fern]

Wonder what other masked characters we have that we don’t know the race of

[outer dragon]

Can't find when I asked about it but I remember asking how the techeuns come back from being taken instead of just die like all other taken

[empty fern]

Besides shaxx (I still say human)

[dim minnow]

the music effect that plays at that part tells me Witness

[brittle mortar]

And is it true that him and osiris are, like, a couple? I was looking at the lore of Saint and apparently someone from the staff confirmed it?

[outer dragon]

Shaxx is 100% a big burly human

[empty fern]

The wq horns?