📚lore-discussion

[orchid wedge]

..

He wasn’t at full power correct?

[dim minnow]

Then Oryx had to run away and make himself stronger so we had to pull up with the gang

[dim minnow]

You could say he was crippled at that point given we killed Crota

[orchid wedge]

Broken parent syndrome

[dim minnow]

Though I'm not sure where the rest if his court stands at the point we fight him

[orchid wedge]

I’m so confused on how the Dreadnaught is his throne world

So bland

[dim minnow]

Ok, so imagine he took part of a worm god's corpse

Built a ship around it

Then took his throne world

Turned it inside out

Then stuffed it the ship

And now the Hive have a holiday where they turn things inside out

[orchid wedge]

So moving throne world

Awesome

[dim minnow]

Oh, and the reason why he did that was because Savathun tricked Crota into letting the vex in it

And this was to distract Oryx so he would be vulnerable

[orchid wedge]

Then crota caught that punishment

[dim minnow]

So he put it in the dreadnaught to make it mobile

Makes it harder to attack like that

[orchid wedge]

Tru

[dim minnow]

Though it did prove to be his undoing

Once we learned how to get in

[orchid wedge]

What was oryx thinking sending crota to fight the vex of course he was gonna win

[dim minnow]

Well

The way Hive think is different

It was half punishment half building character

You see, Hive would send threats the way of their loved ones as a sign of affection

If this loved one survives, then they prove their worth in the sword logic

If not, then they deserved it and still served the logic

So when Oryx threw Crota to the Vex, he was saying "get in there and prove you are worthy to be my son once more or die forgotten like your brother."

[orchid wedge]

Ohhh

Now I see why they try to kill each other

[dim minnow]

I think it was described as an exile by Savathun

[dim minnow]

Because they love each other

[orchid wedge]

That’s a crazy but W logic

[dim minnow]

Really does show how different the Hive are I'm terms of mentality

Which makes it clear that we can't really get along with them

[orchid wedge]

I

Love

That

Logic

[dim minnow]

Of course, when Eris screwed over Xivu Arath, it was done in a way that defies the sword logic

Which is why Xivu is really devastated

Because she was really looking forward to her and her "new sister" killing each other millions of times over.

[orchid wedge]

Eris wanted that smoke

[dim minnow]

Something I do find interesting is how most Hive detest necromancy

Which makes me wonder what the nature of it is

I'm referring to Nokris' necromancy specifically

Like how horrific it would seem to us

Or how it would work on someone who isn't hove

[orchid wedge]

E..

[dim minnow]

Hell, I wonder if it works on non-hive

I really want Bungie to elaborate on Hive necromancy

Hmmm

[orchid wedge]

The best enemy faction is obviously the hive

[dim minnow]

Maybe next year's Heresy episode will

Hive psychology does fascinate me

So does Vex

Though we don't get much of that

There were some quotes from Clovis and I think Elsie that delved into how terrifying the Vex can be

[orchid wedge]

Vex are just kinda there

[candid inlet]

dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion

The Vex are, so far, simply curious. But Vex curiosity always leads to Vex transformation [...]

The Vex will not rest until every star has been crushed into a black hole and every newborn cosmos filled with more Vex. And in the unending array of their enslaved cosmos, they will simulate all possible pasts, and fill those with Vex, so that all things that have ever lived or might ever live will experience infestation and consumption and torment by the silica nightmare.

And in those devoured simulations, the simulated Vex will use our flesh as hosts for yet more nested universes full of yet more nested copies of us eternally tormented by yet more Vex.

An infinite regression of pain and madness inflicted upon every possible version of us in every possible world. Not because they hate us, or fear us, or want to punish us. But because they are indifferent and curious, and they will do every possible thing to us in every possible way.```

Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from · Aug 7, 2023, 11:10 PM

[dim minnow]

These are probably my favorite lore quotes regarding the Vex

Shows that the Vex can be scarier than the Hive

Honestly I think these quotes should be pinned

Since they are the best way to explain the Vex to someone

[orchid wedge]

So cabal but just robots

[dim minnow]

A very incorrect oversimplification

And keep in mind that Vex are time traveling robots that are neither robots nor time traveling

Cabal seek glory and conquest and are sentient, thinking beings

Vex just want to make everything else Vex

And them being sentient is arguable at best

[orchid wedge]

Vex = Vex = More Vex

Why not just destroy the infinite forest

[dim minnow]

The Infinite Forest is just a huge simulation engine

Destroying it would be a huge setback of course

But Vex have other resources

Plus the Infinite Forest has proven to be a viable asset to us

Also, we can't really access it at this point since Mercury is still gone

Even then, how would we even destroy it?

[devout nimbus]

👍

Done

[devout nimbus]

The 3rd and 5th one are great

[trim grotto]

Aye, it's a good collection. Nice one Dova. And thanks for the pin, Scryllix.

[calm granite]

wait wdym they're not time traveling ?

[empty fern]

It’s magic

[dim minnow]

As it turns out, what the vex do is not exactly time travel but a mix between very powerful simulation capabilities and the way they perceive time

The best way to explain how Vex perceive it is like reading a Choose Your Own Adventure book as if it was a normal book.

[calm granite]

Well yeah but at some point they have to ... come back to the beginning right ?

A lot of chars alleviate to their capacity to come back to some point or other, or really all of them right ?

Which goes over just the idea that they pretty much can take every path of the road at the same time

Or well, every choice in the book

Note that I am unsure if my messages make sense

[chrome fog]

They are consistently playing the “chess with time travel” game, but it’s not chess it’s a Sims game, infinitely complicating the gameplay and strategy

[dim minnow]

That is what they are trying to do

But paracausality is stopping them

[calm granite]

I see

Gotta say the slim diff between simulation and reality is blurry for me

[outer dragon]

The line between simulation and reality is so very thin.

[empty fern]

Wield the simulation in our new dlc
Programming

[fallow sky]

How is it that the guardians were able to hunt the ahamkaras to extinction while we needed a whole 6 guardians one of those being THE GUARDIAN to kill one

[ember storm]

because it was half taken

also the main reason we needed six people was to open the vault and then make sure riven's heart was safely delivered and cleansed

other ahamkara were just normal so they were just shot

or cut

stabbed

whatever

[jagged badge]

The Ahamkara hunts were done by many, many Guardians, and Riven was more powerful as Waltz said

[fallow sky]

In the lore book with saladin it sounded like it was only him and efrideet so i think i agree with wals more

[jagged badge]

I’m…I’m not contradicting Waltz

[outer dragon]

Also the Ahamkara do not mind death as they can still exist via bones

[ember storm]

Saladin and Efrideet are very very big exceptions to standard guardians, for the record

[fallow sky]

True mb

[outer dragon]

Salad fingers got yeeted and developed TCrash

[ember storm]

also it was our very own conception of riven being a huge threat due to being taken and our desire to kill her which powered her up even more

[outer dragon]

Yuuup

[ember storm]

and honestly with how guardian behavior goes, after a certain point in the hunt it would've stopped being a huge deal and just turned into a black friday "don't miss out" type thing

like i imagine shaw han's brain is so empty the ahamkara couldn't feed on anything and just got shot

[fast flint]

i hope we find out next szn if ahamkara wish magic stronger than the witness's power

[ember storm]

it won't be

not by a long shot

we're not dealing with the witness' power

we just need to figure out how to get through a very tricky door

[outer dragon]

And even then we don't know what the ramifications of Mara having a taken egg

[ember storm]

honestly probably nothing

[fast flint]

ahamkara wish magic kinda seems like hax, too many loopholes

literally making deals with the devil lol

[jagged badge]

Didn’t the Nine kill all those eggs anyway?

[ember storm]

it's just making deals with ugly lizards

[outer dragon]

They are like genies

[jagged badge]

I just know it’s Mael’s opinion that Mara’s egg was simply an easter egg

Though I suppose that doesn’t rule out writers deciding to make it something more

[ember storm]

it has less relevance than the ascendant lens

[outer dragon]

Wouldn't be the first time a thin premise was stretched into something more than the sum of its parts

[jagged badge]

I summoned him

[ember storm]

it's easy to summon mael

[shadow warren]

Why were hunters and warlocks the generally the only classes who messed with ahamkara bones during the great hunt

[ember storm]

they weren't

titans just don't have an ahamkara exotic

warlocks wear goat and deer skulls because they're freaks, though

titans are way cooler because they wear sentient inorganic organisms to make their punches longer

[shadow warren]

Ah Byf mentioned that in one of his videos

Hunters and warlocks having a greater tendency to find ahamkara remains

[ember storm]

that's not real

he does that a lot

[shadow warren]

So he’s just wrong

[ember storm]

he does that yes

it's mostly his own interpretation of things because that's what his content is

the problem is when people use him as a primary source

[shadow warren]

Ah alr

[chrome fog]

It only sterilized and killed the eggs, didn’t it? Them being Taken means they can no longer hatch as Ahamkara

[fiery copper]

probably something like "there are more lore tabs of hunters and warlocks interacting with bones than there are of titans, therefore they must find them more often"

[outer dragon]

And they don't do that anymore. Now they just make you handle things better and punch harder

If only they could also harden in response to physical trama

NANOMACHINES, SON

[ember storm]

why have i never seen an armstrong titan before

[chrome fog]

I swear I’ve seen one somewhere

But that could be YouTube shorts getting to me

[outer dragon]

But we have tales of Saldaman and Shaxx fighting them with Shaxx straight up having a skull of one over his head

[outer dragon]

Hmmm, I now have an idea...

[fiery copper]

we have a bunch for every class

[outer dragon]

This next season would be a great time to introduce an Ahamkara exotic for Titans

[outer dragon]

I know, just picked the two biggest names i could remember

[sterile jasper]

i know this is technically from a thumbnail, but the emblem is VERY similar to the map from Pathways Into Darkness or a map that you’d see in game. Wondering if now there could be some connections to them?

[outer dragon]

Sounds like spinfoil but I don't know enough to say it is or isn't

[sterile jasper]

Well hang on

I got more

Big emphasis on triangles in circles

Set inside a pyramid

Other has to do currently with pyramids containing a similar powerful entity of darkness

[chrome fog]

Question, what is Pathways to Darkness, is it one of Bungie’s early titles?

[sterile jasper]

Very early

1993

[chrome fog]

Because that’s more likely Bungie taking tropes they’ve had in all their games, they love being referential to past entries

[sterile jasper]

Eh

[sterile jasper]

See this is where shit gets wild

Because marathon infinity directly connects PID to it

[ember storm]

I mean in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t particularly matter

and argument could be made that destiny 2 has a fucking sleep number reference

[sterile jasper]

So it wouldnt matter if say, Destiny was an alternate universe of Marathon where PID still happens in the grand scheme of things?

[ember storm]

it really does not matter at all, no

[sterile jasper]

I mean

[chrome fog]

Paraverse baybee

[sterile jasper]

Its cool though

[ember storm]

mida literally exists and also the entirety of dares mention the existence of the paraverse

[sterile jasper]

The theory that every bungie main character is an eternal warrior who is reincarnated with the power and knowledge of the previous makes sense as confirmed by Marathon Infinity, and the theme following onto Halo and Destiny making sense

[sterile jasper]

So yeah ig it is all connected then

[tawdry mauve]

i wouldnt think that far into it tbh

[ember storm]

not really

[sterile jasper]

I mean

It all can be

[ember storm]

it’s not like either one has major ramifications on the other

[tawdry mauve]

destiny 2 has broken the 4th wall a few times already

[chrome fog]

Halo was gonna be a Marathon game but they changed it up; Savathun has echos of Durandal in specifically one entry where she seemingly breaks the fourth wall as well as mentioning trying to break outside of the current Destiny universe

[ember storm]

it’s literally just an excuse for Easter eggs

[tawdry mauve]

yep

[ember storm]

nothing more nothing less

[tawdry mauve]

an easter egg is just an easter egg

[sterile jasper]

Idk

[tawdry mauve]

most of it is non cannon anyways like dares

[chrome fog]

It’s all Easter eggs, references, connections to the greater Paraverse

[tawdry mauve]

dares are non canon in a weird way though

[chrome fog]

You’re right tho

It is all connected

[sterile jasper]

I dont think its an easter egg, but I still believe they’re all connected in some way

[ember storm]

the master chief reference in D1 isn’t even meant to be master chief, which a lot of people miss somehow

[sterile jasper]

But not totally direct

[chrome fog]

But it has less impact on the narrative as a whole

[tawdry mauve]

yes they are

they share the same developer

thats litterally all it is

all the rockstar games for example constantly reference each other

but they arent all connected naratively

[ember storm]

there’s a reference to earthbound and ness in a couple kirby games because they’re made by the same devs

it doesn’t mean anything

[tawdry mauve]

you know why, because rockstar develops all of them

its just an easter egg

just because it is in the game does not make it suddenly some grand mystery or even canon

[ember storm]

also side note I just very recently realized the stuff called “PK fire” and stuff is meant to mean psychokinetic

[chrome fog]

I mean, you got it right, they’re connected, the MIDA Minitool entry even hints at its paradoxical existence even though the audience might possibly be aware that it’s a reference to Marathon, but most of the time that’s the extent it goes, 4th wall breaks are either coincidental deductions of the true nature of the Destiny universe, addressing another character not the actual Player - whom yes is a significant individual in Bungie’s games like you mentioned, Young Wolf is just the most recent in line - or is talking about something else entirely but the syntax when read by the Player’s eyes could insinuate awareness of us and our plane of existence, above that of the game universe’s

I’m thinking Mael did this but I could be misremembering, but many others have tried making a case for the significance of these Easter eggs in a grander narrative sense but Bungie keeps their stories separated save for fun pokes

[sterile jasper]

Marathon Infinity introduces the idea of multiple universes, and the fact our character is a constant reincarnation of the ones before, that being confirmed to be previous Bungie games. Even a certain race from PID plays a pivotal role in Marathon Infinity’s story

We see how drastically different each alternate universe can get

And so why should this theory be tossed out when anything can happen in an altered universe of the original

[tawdry mauve]

"that being confirmed to be previous Bungie games"

you seem to love tossing out "confirmed" like its lost all meaning and purpose

nothing like this has been "confirmed"

bungie could have hinted or teased at it

but like everything else we talked about easter eggs do not constitute canon

[chrome fog]

Halo’s correct, nothing said has actual been wrong

But like

It’s not wholly significant in the narrative of Destiny, at least not yet

[tawdry mauve]

the issue with this argument is that it could apply to litterally everything

[sterile jasper]

In certain Marathon Infinity levels you enter “dream sequences” and travel into the other timelines from there, and learn of your own character’s subconscious and the fact your character is the reincarnation of the one from PID.

[sterile jasper]

Its not totally fullproof if its a big part

[tawdry mauve]

yes which is still all within the marathon universe

you specifically said previous bungie games, implying that it isnt just about marathon

[sterile jasper]

But then we get the ending to marathon

[tawdry mauve]

so im asking

[sterile jasper]

Plus even if you dont wanna count !lettinggo as cannon or relevant

[tawdry mauve]

ok my question still stands

[ember storm]

i mean when you throw in reincarnation it just becomes a whole lot of this

which I don’t like

[tawdry mauve]

"Marathon Infinity introduces the idea of multiple universes, and the fact our character is a constant reincarnation of the ones before, that being confirmed to be previous Bungie games. Even a certain race from PID plays a pivotal role in Marathon Infinity’s story"

I still want to know where it was confirmed to be related to other non marathon bungie games

thats all i want to know here

[chrome fog]

Marathon has a greater exploration of this mythology, maybe halo hints at it idk haven’t played many halo games, and Destiny just kinda lets it play out alongside the actual main narrative, because Bungie’s trying to tell a different meta-contextual story than exploring the various ways in which can ascend their current being, Destiny is more so a story about will meaning for life, how you have the freedom to determine what your fate is and it is no one’s right to enforce their definition for living unto another; the whole “Guardians make their own Fate” schtick

Halo’s completely correct in their observations

[ember storm]

like they literally just name drop destiny in the opening monologue

[sterile jasper]

Same as the ending to Marathon Infinity and the plot of it

[chrome fog]

But like I said again

[sterile jasper]

You break the infinite loop you are set to once you finally know who you really are and where you fit

[tawdry mauve]

i still want to know where this was confirmed

but i guess i can ask like a thousand times

since im clearly not getting an answer

[sterile jasper]

It cant be totally confirmed except for marathon infinity and pid

[tawdry mauve]

ok

so it wasnt

💀

[chrome fog]

It’s not important to Destiny save for a couple hints of the same wall Marathon was aiming a pickaxe at, poking and prodding with precise observation by the inhabitants of the Destiny universe

[tawdry mauve]

you cant say confirmed and then imply it wasnt really all that confirmed

[chrome fog]

What is the argument being had here

[tawdry mauve]

none of this is really important to anything happening to destiny or halo

like all of these are just easter eggs and callbacks

[chrome fog]

What was the contested claim because this is devolving into circles between Cosmo and Halo

Cosmos hasn’t said anything incorrect but I feel like something else is being argued

[tawdry mauve]

that all the bungie games are connected in some way narratively i guess

[chrome fog]

Exploring ways to breach the 4th wall, to incorrectly simplify without the nuance

[tawdry mauve]

yes but how nuanced is this argument to begin with

[chrome fog]

Uuugggghhh

[tawdry mauve]

?

youre litterally just drawing lines at nothing here

is robocop a part of the destiny universe

because they happened to reference it

[ember storm]

goddamnit you just reminded me I have to work on my art more

ughhhhh

[chrome fog]

Earliest interaction of humanity with the Traveler happened after robocop’s release so yeah robocop’s canonical

[tawdry mauve]

i dont mean does robocop exist within the destiny universe

i mean is it narratively connected with destiny

because they just happened to reference it

is doom narratively connected with destiny because they reference it

im not really buying any non meta or easter egg based connected to marathon or halo with destiny, because from the perspective of destiny its litterally all it is

marathon can say its all connected all it wants but its not a 1 way connection

[chrome fog]

I mean, there’s Savathun attempting to get out of this universe

[tawdry mauve]

yes

thats a 4th wall break

but that is unrelated here

[chrome fog]

No like literally abscond into the Paraverse

[tawdry mauve]

here is my final verdict

what marathon decides is the case is not immediately gospel, even if a marathon game goes on to flat out say "yes all the games are connected" unless those games make a connection back that isnt just trivial references and easter eggs

its not substantial

[chrome fog]

I mean there’s better ways of saying the references not immediately important, I’ve done just that a couple times

It’s a possible through line Destiny can explore

But there’s a grander symbolic narrative being played out between the Witness and the Guardian

[ember storm]

At this point it would be very arbitrary and unnecessary

[chrome fog]

Eh

[ember storm]

destiny has flourished far beyond marathon

there’s no point

it’s a reference essentially nobody’s going to get or care for

[tawdry mauve]

all these references are really just nostalgia bait

lol

[ember storm]

there’s a reason that the 30th anniversary, for what little story it had, focused exclusively on vague halo references

[chrome fog]

That’s a bit mean spirited but I guess; The exploration of the topic itself is intreguing, otherwise why have tints of “As above so below” baked into the whole narrative of Destiny

“Because Destiny is vastly more popular and successful” so? Is the subject not still interesting?

Having a mythological ‘Player’ whom is present within the player characters of Bungie’s game is neat

[outer dragon]

Bungie would never take a thin premise and stretch it to its absolute limits

/sarc

[chrome fog]

If they explore it, neat
If not, they’ve hinted at awareness of said entity within Destiny via the weird semi-4th wall breaks and whatnot

Halo’s correct in their observations of the connectivity between the games

[sterile jasper]

They all got great stories and destiny has an amazing world of lore even if it isnt totally explored upon

[chrome fog]

It’s not relevant to the narrative at current, but maybe at a later date

[sterile jasper]

After having understood the concepts and played (nearly) all the bungie games

It would be fun to try and connect them even if its obscure or non-essential

[sterile jasper]

And hey we still got the New Marathon to look forward to

Who knows what they’ll throw for us when it comes out

[chrome fog]

I think even Halo has tints of exploring the 4th wall via the precursors or the covenant or whatever, always in reference to planes of which to ascend to a greater power (though again I haven’t played a lot of Halo)

[trim grotto]

You should talk to Sarsion

[sterile jasper]

Who that

[trim grotto]

Buddy of mine, vet. Been around since Marathon. Worked on Eliksni translation, and has opinions about Bungie's cross-game story.

[sterile jasper]

Ooooh that sounds very cool!!

[torpid flint]

I don’t think they’ll be able to recreate the success of destiny 2

[arctic iron]

probs not

destiny came out at a good time

for them

[torpid flint]

sure it’ll probably make a profit, but I can’t see them going farther than this really. Especially since Sony’s involvement is probably completely changing their style of games.

[arctic iron]

plus destiny was completely unique

its easier to grab attention

for sci fi shooter

marathon is just wotever

[torpid flint]

marathon just seems like a typical, sci-fi shooter

[arctic iron]

pre much

[torpid flint]

Also

bungie layoffs

actually could turn out well for 343

But that’s not the point

idk, d2 feels too stale, and too repetitive

[arctic iron]

well

10 years

is a long time

5 years alone is a milestone for a live service game

[torpid flint]

and the lore is starting to feel way more overwhelm

good lore tho

[chrome fog]

Extraction shooter with twists on the formula, most likely from their description

And the layoffs only were for those on Destiny

At least from what has been revealed and said

Marathon moreso feels like a break from routine for them to run their creative juices again, like with og Marathon, like with Halo, like with Destiny

[jagged badge]

Sounds like a right loser ngl

[sterile jasper]

Great stuff

[torpid flint]

I don’t see that happening under Sony. Sony tends to be more story oriented, great stories, but they don’t do great with FPSs

[jagged badge]

I don’t see what it has to do with Sony at all

[gentle geyser]

You could also say that for halo but we know how that went

[peak coral]

well the sony game devs are separate from bungie devs

heh

[gentle geyser]

I think marathon being an extraction shooter is whats gonna make the series questionable, it could die fast if not handled right

[chrome fog]

As with the layoffs, Sony has stated they are not interfering with any of Bungie’s development, allowing the to create their games as their benefactor; Marathon has been in development longer than it’s announcement, and for reiterate, they have not affected any business or development choices Bungie has taken. Bungie management has taken responsibility for the layoffs. Sony isn’t doing jackshit.

[chrome fog]

Like in relation to the original Marathon? Or in reference to Destiny, an entirely unrelated series?

Because it can still get esoteric, look at GTFO

[gentle geyser]

How does that effect that message in the slightest

[gentle geyser]

The thing is it’s obviously them trying the tarkov trend

[chrome fog]

Put more colors and themes of escaping the narrative and

[ember storm]

DID SOMEBODY SAY ESOTERICKK

[jagged badge]

[chrome fog]

The message stated that Marathon isn’t going to follow Bungie’s tendency to inject heavy lore into the new Marathon due to Sony buying them out, when the case is really going to be Bungie Executives making stupid choices for financial gain

[ember storm]

god my mind is empty right now

i've been drawing for 2 straight hours

how are things going in here

[chrome fog]

Again, Bungie has a record of doing things with a twist, narratively and/or gameplay wise

[chrome fog]

Random debates on the future of Bungie’s games

[chrome fog]

Wait I’m dumb

I thought that was in response to my reply of why shit wasn’t going to change because of Sony

But still my point stands, shit can get wacky

[sterile jasper]

I wouldnt say the series just more this individual marathon game would die out

Because the original trilogy still makes modded scenarios and custom ad ons still to the games thanks to bungo

[sterile jasper]

I mean

They put in a whole ARG thats since added some lore to the franchise

But currently the way it’ll be ever shown in game is tbd

I have hopes it’ll find some way to add lore as a side thing not as an in your face thing

Sorta like the first game where if you wanted the extra lore

You’d have to search for secrets and find the terminals for that extra bit

And i hope it makes lore searching rewarding in Marathon and makes it unique

Well if NuMarathon as the community says

[pure tree]

How many times has the last city been breached in some way?

If counting red war as one, I can think of 5 times, being Bannerfall, Red War, SotP, Zero Hour heist, and the end of Season of the Splicer, but idk if I'm missing smth

[chrome fog]

That one time remnants of the Traveler cage were stolen, which then culminated in Season of the Chosen where the Ghost suppressor was used on Targe by the Psions

[pure tree]

Oh yeah, ig that counts

[chrome fog]

Could we say Spider? Technically he infiltrated the City but we also kinda let him

[pure tree]

Don't think so

When I say breached, I mean by hostile forces

Spider wasn't invited here, but also he wasn't hostile when he was smuggled in

[chrome fog]

Fair enough, I can’t really think of anything off the top of my head

[pure tree]

I wonder what would've changed if our guardian wasn't wandering around bannerfall trying to make gjallarhorn

Like, they would've succeeded in blowing a huge hole in bannerfall, but would that even be enough to really do anything considering how weakened the Devils were, even with SIVA?

[gentle geyser]

Series was already dead
New game is just a reboot and it’s likely it could fail

[trim grotto]

It wasn't dead, it was finished.
And I honestly don't think anyone can pass an opinion on it this early.

[chrome fog]

The fact that it predecessed Halo, one of them most influential console shooters, and has major story beats which are recycled in Bungie’s later titles, points to Marathon being fairly successful and the only reason they hadn’t added another entry being that they were exploring the systems of Halo as well as Destiny

Shit, their Tiger engine is so fundamental to shooters that COD has been developed on a number of variations of it

[trim grotto]

Your face developed a variation of the Tiger engine

[chrome fog]

Fuck yeah, I’m a tiger engine

[trim grotto]

Burn

[chrome fog]

My body is a game engine takes code (food) and turns it into graphics (energy and waste)

[chrome fog]

Going back to this, Infinity Ward and the other guys idk had their own separate in-house versions of the Tiger engine - which is why games had different feels to them every next entry - and only recently have they overhauled it into the current engine they share today

[trim grotto]

Your face was recently overhauled into the current engine we share today

Buuurn

I'm on fire today

[fiery copper]

Is it worth logging into the game just for the imbaru engine puzzle

[trim grotto]

You get a shader out of it as well

[chrome fog]

Try and do the flames part blind, but use the guide for the symbols

[fiery copper]

Cool

[chrome fog]

It’s the good and the bad version of a Destiny scavenger hunt sequentially, first flames and then the symbols

[ember storm]

you're on fire?

BETTER GET SOME WATER

[sterile jasper]

Its not dead at all

Lots of lore in it is still up to a ton of speculation

Because of the way it was created and the loops the series throws you for

[analog torrent]

Thoughts on the new grimoire? Saw a post on social media about it a few hours ago, the drawings are gorgeous but that's the extent of my knowledge

[sterile jasper]

Plus the fact they let you make your own maps for the game was pretty cool, it came included with Marathon Infinity, Forge and Anvil

[sterile jasper]

Oo whats it on?

[analog torrent]

Ghosts and their Guardians

[sterile jasper]

My guardian be getting lit with his ghost every weekend lmao (head cannon)

[chrome fog]

Oh yeah, presumably one of the illustrations is of Micah-10, Den Mother of Ghosts

Autocorrect dammit

[analog torrent]

the drawings contained images of Targe/Zavala, Opichus/Ikora, Drifter's ghost and the time he was rezzed, YW being rezzed apparently, the OG vanguard (TALLULAH FAIRWIND IMAGE), and this one of a person dragging a chain of ghost shells behind them maybe that's Micah idk her lore

[chrome fog]

That’s the Ghost Killer, his name is mentioned in Ghost Stories and also in the one entry we have of Micah-10

Can’t remember the name off the top of my head

[jagged badge]

Cyrell or something

[sterile jasper]

Yeah thats the name

[chrome fog]

Cyrell, yeah

AUTOCORRECT

[sterile jasper]

Pffft

[outer dragon]

Yes

Very worth doing

[dim minnow]

What I want to know is if there are any exclusive entries and who the artist is

I don't think the art in the last two were bad, I just prefer the art in the first three a lot more

The newer art is more stylized while the older art put much more emphasis on detail

And I feel that the latter fits Destiny a lit better

Though I admit it is more if a preference thing

Kind of like prerendered cutscenes vs inkblot cutscenes

What I really gripe about is the lack of exclusive entries

4th one only had one and even then it wasn't even an actual lore entry, just an unused story concept for Forsaken

5th didn't have any at all

[chrome fog]

I think Cryptarchy has someone who posted an illustration they did for the Grimoire cover, hold on

Not cover but an illustration nonetheless

https://vxtwitter.com/devinkorwin/status/1723023320679915789?s=20

Bingo bongo, thank you Sars

[fiery copper]

Wait ho ly that's amazing

[dim minnow]

So this guy is the artist?

[trim grotto]

Seems like it

[dim minnow]

Ok, so the last two were illustrated by Richard Anderson

And this one is by Devin Korwin

While the first three were done by Piotr Jablonski

[chrome fog]

Also have this from Mr Ishtar Timeline himself, I think the source might be the TWID? Idk

[dim minnow]

Honestly, Devin's art so far is similar to Piotr's

Or it at least follows a similar idea with more emphasis on detail

Hmmm

I wonder if this comparison would be right

[chrome fog]

I’m blanking on the style, had its own period in culture, I’m thinking Impressionist but it’s not that

[dim minnow]

Piotr - prerendered cutscene
Richard - inkblot cutscene
Devin - ingame cutscene

Suffice to say, I kind of like Devin's style so far

Seriously though, does it have exclusive entries?

I need to know if they at least did that

Would be interesting if the next grimoire anthology focused on the Witness

Shattered Suns, Vow raid armor lore, Ron armor lore

Unveiling

GoS armor lore

Inspiral

[grizzled zinc]

Lads, when will we meet obama care in guardian form, abraham lincoln in guardian form or georgia washington in guardian form

[chrome fog]

If you make an oc out of them sure

Basically anyone from the present to all of history is prime for rez

An ancient Egyptian got rezzed

[orchid wedge]

Are VOW And RON Connected at all?

[trim grotto]

Not directly but they both focus on a Disciple of the Witness

[orchid wedge]

Ohhh

Nezerac a disciple?

I thought he was a god

Since his name said final god of pain

[trim grotto]

He was a Disciple of the Witness, yes. He led the attack on the Sol System during the Collapse.

And there's no singular definition for the term "god"

Crota and the Hive siblings are considered gods, after all

[dim minnow]

Nezarec's title of God is probably tied to his backstory whatever it is

Interesting that my phone autocorrects God to have a capital 'G'

[low gyro]

your phone is monotheistic

[orchid wedge]

Sol?

[dim minnow]

What did Samsung mean by this?

[dim minnow]

Sol is short for The Solar System

[orchid wedge]

Isn’t that like garden of salvation

[dim minnow]

Like Luna is short for the Moon

[orchid wedge]

Ohhh

Ic

[orchid wedge]

And cosmodrome means earth?

[dim minnow]

No

[orchid wedge]

Man where the tf is the sun in all of this

Bros just sitting back

[dim minnow]

Cosmodrome is based on a real life location in Russia

[trim grotto]

Sol(ar system)

as in the actual name of our star system

[dim minnow]

I think it is "Baikonur"

[trim grotto]

it's a space port in Old Russia

[dim minnow]

Yep. Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kahzakstan

[orchid wedge]

I wonder if strike bosses even have lore

[dim minnow]

And as I said, real location

[chrome fog]

Sol is specifically our Solar System, as many others exist but this one is ours

[dim minnow]

They tend to

Some more than others

[orchid wedge]

Idk how many strikes they’re are

I know there’s a lot

[dim minnow]

Hard to go over all if them

[orchid wedge]

In my mind I go like this

Strikes - Dungeons - Raids

[low gyro]

i think most scifi names the system Sol bec, well, in those settings, there are usually multiple solar systems in play and the name Sol (i believe it just means sun) is used specifically to mean the solar system which Earth is in

sort of like how people use Luna to refer to the earth's moon specifically

[chrome fog]

It’s also because we call it Sol in real life

[blazing wasp]

Many alternative names we have is just the same name but different language

Tellus means earth luna means moon

[low gyro]

Don't remember irl agencies referring to our sun or solar system as Sol tho

[fiery copper]

"Sol-ar system" = "system relating to sol"

Our son is called sol irl

[low gyro]

I believe sol is just Latin for sun and you know how the scientific community likes latin/Greek words

But yeah meh it doesn't matter idk why I'm arguing about this

[jagged badge]

We have a son?

[empty fern]

Yes

He will grow up to be the marksman that’s Marc’s man

[fiery copper]

No

Me and your dad do

Your brother

[fiery copper]

Yea

It's a star, but we call it "the sun" aka sol

[jagged badge]

Ironically my brother is actually a carbon copy of my mom and I’m the one who takes more after my dad

[fiery copper]

That's what you think

[jagged badge]

[chrome fog]

If we just called our home system “The Solar System” it would make it a bit difficult to differentiate from the other Solar Systems, specifying that it’s the Sol System and naming it a basic bitch name like we do Earth is how we signify we’re talking about our specific Solar System

[little gorge]

meanwhile warframe with "origin system" and "lua"

[empty fern]

Lua and luna

[tawdry mauve]

sol is latin for sun

we dont call it sol because its the solar system

we call it the solar system because the sun is called sol in latin

its basically the opposite

[empty fern]

The origin language

[fiery copper]

Yes

That's what I'm saying

The sun is sol

The system is "the system of sol"

[orchid wedge]

Taco Bell

Taco Bell the almighty force of destiny 2

[empty fern]

Ok

[warm glen]

aight so I’m dumb af, what is the 15th wish and why is it such a big deal???

[jagged badge]

Before now, it was simply a meta, game thing

[tawdry mauve]

thats why the raid is called the last wish

it was bungies epic troll moment for everyone thinking it was an actual arg

[jagged badge]

Apparently there was lore linked to the 14 wishes that can be done in the Last Wish raid, and I think dataminers found a 15th wish that never became anything

[tawdry mauve]

no no it wasnt dataminers

the triumph itself listed 15 wishes

and was then changed to 14 later

[jagged badge]

Oh right

[tawdry mauve]

chances are it was never meant to be intentional

[jagged badge]

Yeah I know nothing about this I won’t lie

[tawdry mauve]

theres a few good videos on it

[jagged badge]

Anyway, point is, the writers are now making this 15th “last wish” a story thing

[orchid wedge]

I fuck wit it

The name is fire asf

[outer dragon]

The Last Wish is canonically the wish of the fireteam that killed Riven to actually kill Riven.
The 15th Wish is not the Last Wish

[jagged badge]

Tell that to the cutscene where Eris says Savathûn gave us the last wish lmao

[orchid wedge]

Lore wise which raid has the most lore

[jagged badge]

In what regard? Number/length of lore books and entries on armour/weapons? Or the depth/relevance of the lore?

That’s a vague question

[orchid wedge]

Length and Relevance of Lore

[jagged badge]

I dunno about length, and I don’t care to figure out how to work that out lmao. Relevance? Last Wish was incredibly and immediately relevant to the Forsaken story. Whereas I’d argue something like Garden of Salvation is a little less relevant

[orchid wedge]

GOS Is kinda there

[outer dragon]

GoS wasn't realy relevant to SK but more to the overarching story as a whole

[dim minnow]

Well GoS does happen because of the sphere we got at the end of SK

[fresh zephyr]

GoS is linked more to the larger story in general

[empty fern]

Gos is also linked to the first story in d1

[orchid wedge]

GoS is the least fun raid

[gentle geyser]

GoS is a raid of of destiny 2!!! 🗣️

It is certainly one that exists

[gleaming pebble]

do we have more info on the Ghost trapped in Felwinter's Helm

like who it belonged to, what that Warlord did

or are we just gonna get "yeah I killed that guy and stuck his ghost on the back of my head"

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/felwinters-helm

It's basically just what's in the entry itself

[gleaming pebble]

so that's it

[trim grotto]

Yes

[uneven canyon]

What are the veiled statues

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-lightfall-the-witness-black-fleet-pyramid-gif-27606731

Witness pose

But “veiled”

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-lightfall-the-witness-darkness-black-fleet-gif-27570963

This pose I think

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-gif-20415584

Actually idk, maybe a hug pose?

[uneven canyon]

I dunno

I don't think it depicts the witness

[empty fern]

I think it does, but I have no evidence therefore I cannot say

[ember storm]

the statues are of a distinctly feminine figure, so I doubt it

[empty fern]

Are they? Thought it was the witnesses weird hand movements (like multiple layers like that wq cutscene)

[dim minnow]

The veiled lady statues are most likely a primary method the Witness uses to reach out to other mostly to give them power or something else

@uneven canyon

Practically every instance we see them has them used this way

The one in the Lunar Pyramid gave us the artifact that led us to the one in the Black Garden (which gave us Divinity) while also giving Eris Morn Stasis

The ones we saw in the Europan Pyramid gave us Stasis and Deepsight

Clarity Control statue gave Clovis access to Clarity

One on Titan gave us Wicked Implement (granted Xivu was technically the one who gave it to us)

One on the Witness' Pyramid gives us a secret raid chest

[chrome fog]

As for who they depict, we have nothing stating who it is

Though, when we learned about the Veil in Seraph and the articles/interviews/trailers for Lightfall and how there was a connection to the Traveler, there was a theory that the Veiled Lady is meant to represent the Gardener - what the Traveler was before she was cut down and reduced to her current form

[little gorge]

veil?!?!?!!!!!! (no way!)

[blazing wasp]

But you didn't have to cuuut me off

[empty fern]

No

[little gorge]

literally destiny 2 lore

[fiery copper]

yeah thats defo not the same pose

my opinion is that if the US army can use hot egirls in their ads to recruit people, so can the witness

[empty fern]

Neat

[lofty heron]

Question about the lore if i may. So in a cutscene we saw that one titan "fused" to some space debree

Were they still revivable by their ghost?

Or was that just immediate game over ?

[jagged badge]

Dead

Poor Joxer

[jagged badge]

His Ghost died with him actually

[lofty heron]

OH

Damn thats barely visible

[jagged badge]

I suppose this means I don’t actually know the answer to this

But probably not

I don’t think the Vanguard were in any hurry to risk another Joxer

[ember storm]

my man can do a mean splits tho

[little gorge]

hunted the ahamkara, beta tested gambit prime, yet died to a triangle inscribed in a circle

[blazing wasp]

This means triangle portals can beat gambit prime and the great hunt

[little gorge]

take that, powerscalers

[runic widget]

dud literally got folded

[outer dragon]

Likely made a deal with Riven without knowing

[little gorge]

"hello wish dragon, i would love to be permanently welded to the big ball in the sky in an attempt to enter a triangle, it would be really cool!!!!

-Joxer"

honestly this sounds like something a titan would say

[outer dragon]

No, read the lore tab on Plate of the Great Hunt

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/plate-of-the-great-hunt

[little gorge]

yes ik

[outer dragon]

Spooky

[little gorge]

also as i said, joxer was quite the titan

"it's not a problem i can punch"

[chrome fog]

Had a bit more veggies than crayons

[arctic iron]

[arctic iron]

cursed

[ember storm]

I need the full image now

[empty fern]

Isn’t that a SirDimitriouse thumbnail?

[trim grotto]

Where are my lore friends
Give me a lore

[empty fern]

Give speculations on echos

Now

Fwiend

[trim grotto]

Which Echoes? Osiris Echoes? Oryx Echoes? The concept of rebounding sound?

[empty fern]

The upcoming echos of the (what we think are vex)

[trim grotto]

Ah, the Episode
My speculation is that:
it might be a Vex

[empty fern]

Or we can speculate on how these will be acquired

“Traveler trace” khovostov and golden gun sniper

Or also talk about tessellation lore

[trim grotto]

Khvostov could simply be put down to the recreation of historical places and experiences of our lives. It, like the Hawkmoon, was recreated by the Traveler.

[empty fern]

Most likely

[trim grotto]

alternatively Zavala goes "haha hey Baby Dog, I found your old gun, here you go"

[empty fern]

And reskinned it with the cosmodrome wall paint

But anyways

Traveler beam Trace

[trim grotto]

i have no idea

Speculation isn't my strong suit
I like working with known quantities

[jagged badge]

I’ll pay money to hear Keith David say “baby dog”

It’d be hilarious and you can’t disagree

[empty fern]

Here’s my theory, we grab it from the traveler itself (in the mind scape) or go back to that edz area

Cause like Prometheus vex ornament, you can see a source in the gun

Tiny shard

[chrome fog]

Baby Dog is my new favorite saying

[empty fern]

Wait

What did zavala say at the end of that one Nessus strike?

For bloopers

[low gyro]

Recently been replaying mass effect trilogy and can't wait to hear him as zavala

[ember storm]

operation oboe has begun, after he thought we'd been lost

for context this strike operation was piccolo

[little gorge]

traveller trace is the literal traveller turned into a gun

[chrome fog]

You could say that about Hawkmoon as well

[little gorge]

i mean the whole thing

100% of the traveller

in a gun

[empty fern]

A last chance gun

[velvet hawk]

While doing a ghost of the deep run with some chill lfg players we had an hour long discussion regarding future enemies and the state of current threats

Fallen.... unless eremis is planning something there's nothing there

Hive.... taken out 2 hive gods, going on 3 and a few worm gods so there's that but I have a theory regarding this area

Cabal... the red legion and shadow legion remnants ain't that dangerous, again theory on them

Vex... are the vex so we never killing them

Taken... without a leader to control them they are just an anything infection that keeps spreading so that's kinda done with

Scorn... honestly, the biggest threat I see right now in terms of danger to us

But my biggest reason for that is the scorns connection to the darkness and pyramid tech, since rhulk no longer ocupys his ship we have a bunch of scorn with the ability to take over a pyramid ship that js designed to pump out worms... I strongly believe that fikral will continue to experiment with worms and his scorn to continuously rez them and create a new species and since he can revive them you can forever feed the worms for continuous growth and power

[trim grotto]

That also means they're always a threat.

[velvet hawk]

My point exactly, they are just a constant so there's no point in debating that

[trim grotto]

Fikrul does not control the Scorn on the Throne World.

He's out of the picture there, they're controlled by the Witness.

[velvet hawk]

That happens when he's gone ?

This is like years and years away

They said after final shapes year they aren't done with destiny and its just light and dark saga ended

[trim grotto]

I'm aware of that.

[velvet hawk]

Fikral is the threat

Quote me now

[trim grotto]

His mind isn't linked to them, so he'd need to find some way to reconnect with them if that were ever to happen.

[velvet hawk]

Pyramid tech and or filling the witnesses power vacuum

[trim grotto]

Depends on what happens during his Episode next year, whether he survives it or not.

[velvet hawk]

They clearly have something planned with him from that alone but my honest to God thought process is he will fill the power vacuum left by tjr witness and control a pyramid, regain his following of scorn and use worms to power his army like the caretaker

Be it a failed experiment

[jagged badge]

I’m ngl I want Crow to somehow pacify Fikrul

I still love how Fikrul acts like a loyal puppy to Uldren

It’s so weirdly wholesome

[empty fern]

Definitely a you thing

[outer dragon]

Yeah no, super cringe

[jagged badge]

Huh?

[outer dragon]

Fikrul being a puppy

Cringe

[jagged badge]

Why?

[trim grotto]

Some bandages aren't meant to be removed Eris

[jagged badge]

That is cryptic and ominous and confusing

[trim grotto]

Don't ask questions when they have dangerous answers
It's like poking a sleeping dog

[jagged badge]

Or a sleeping Fikrul

[dim minnow]

Fikrul's main belief is that anything can be a tool used by its wielder

So him harnessing both Light and Dark would be cool

I also want to see him act as our antithesis like that one lore book said he was

[chrome fog]

Crow takes up the child support payments Uldren left piling up

[fresh zephyr]

best lore is that of titans and their willingness to throw themselves at the enemy

[blazing wasp]

Me fr

My strategic approach involves punching with a side of punching

And for dessert

Haymaker

[fresh zephyr]

I like hammers too

[little gorge]

honestly the scorn episode is the one I'm looking forward to the least

mainly because I'm a huge fan of hive lore and can't wait for heresy

[orchid wedge]

How are destiny classes even chosen

Is it based off personality?

[empty fern]

They just, kinda choose for them self

[jagged badge]

Schools of thought really that you fall into based on your preference and temperament

[orchid wedge]

So it’s true

Titans aren’t buff

[jagged badge]

Obviously people can behave like different classes but generally, you see people as a certain class because they fit that class

Eris may be intelligent and studious and shit but she’s naturally quite daring and adventurous, favouring being out there in the wild like a Hunter

[orchid wedge]

Eris the quiet kid 🗣️🔥

I wonder if our characters have names

Or their literally just named guardian

[empty fern]

Ours? No sadly, for gameplay purposes

[orchid wedge]

Their names are just guardian

[ember storm]

or Young Wolf

Hivebane

Kingslayer

whatever the rest are

[dim minnow]

Zavala himself is described as being more lanky

[orchid wedge]

Ohhh

He is tall

[dim minnow]

Revenant is the one I'm looking forward to the most

Been waiting for Fikrul to return for years

[devout vine]

His father left for milk canon

In any case, Fikrul does seem to be among the only bosses in the game who canonically give us a challenge

[trim grotto]

The milk cannon

[ember storm]

Divinity

[outer dragon]

Before the Vanguard ended operations in the Reef, regular runs to kill Fikrul were common

[jagged badge]

I believe that’s probably what they’re referring to

[low gyro]

Speaking of which, canon apparently reflects gameplay, hollowed lair GM was ass to run

[devout vine]

Forget fikrul for a sec, what about the first episode?

Definitely vex but what Vex collective?

Maybe a new one?

[dim minnow]

The design in the picture looks like Venus

Maybe Hezen

If Echoes is meant to be relevant to TFS, then the VoG being involved makes sense

[outer dragon]

Wouldn't the GoS be relevant? Given the Vex collective there trying to emulate the Veil?

[orchid wedge]

Who is fikrul?

[jagged badge]

The Fanatic

The leader of the Scorned Barons from Forsaken

Boss of the Hollowed Lair strike

[orchid wedge]

Oh

I hate all cabal strikes

The bosses just never stop firing

[jagged badge]

He’s not Cabal

[orchid wedge]

Ik

Im just stating that

He’s scorn or undead fallen for say

[jagged badge]

Funnily the only one of the Scorned Barons to actually be Scorn

Initially anyway, one of ‘em became a Scorn in a heroic public event

[orchid wedge]

Is it scorn or Skorn?

[jagged badge]

Scorn

[orchid wedge]

Mmm

I wonder how much of a threat Nezerac really posed

He’s just a dude wit nightmare’s

[jagged badge]

He was responsible for Earth’s Collapse

He led that assault

[orchid wedge]

Oh nvm

But what was he planning during the raid?

Because he was fresh out the coffin

What could he be plotting

[jagged badge]

[orchid wedge]

I guess he just wanted to fuck shit up

[orchid wedge]

Which raid boss is your favorite lore wise

It doesn’t have to be the main boss

It can be the other ones to

Like the caretaker and the Warpriest “-“

[jagged badge]

I mean, I guess Oryx, because he has a lot of cool lore

But also I quite like, however small, the lore for Atraks/Atraks-1

[outer dragon]

Dude was a menace. He could have absolutely fucked shit up if Savy hadn't intervened

[orchid wedge]

Savy savy..

Who is savy?

[outer dragon]

Savathun

[orchid wedge]

Oh

Thought it was a ghost

Personally I cannot wait for xivu arath’s raid

[jagged badge]

Who says she’s getting one?

[orchid wedge]

Me

Me

I just know it

It wouldn’t be right

To leave her out

Since all the other hive gods excluding crota had a raid of some sorts

[jagged badge]

Savathûn didn’t

[orchid wedge]

It’s savathûn

[jagged badge]

Also Crota did…

[orchid wedge]

Crota isn’t a hive god

[jagged badge]

You just said…??

[orchid wedge]

No no

I said all the hive gods

Excluding crota

[jagged badge]

Also Crota is called a Hive God

[orchid wedge]

Of what?

[fresh zephyr]

Savathun didn't get a raid

[orchid wedge]

It’s savathûn

[jagged badge]

That…that is saying Crota is a Hive God but you’re excluding him from ones who got raids

But anyway, by your logic of excluding Crota, only one Hive God has a raid

[orchid wedge]

I might be high off bleach

[fresh zephyr]

What point are you even trying to make

[jagged badge]

Which doesn’t exactly set the precedent you’re trying to claim it does

[orchid wedge]

What I’m trying to say

She wasn’t really raid worthy..

[jagged badge]

Why not? She’s one of the most powerful enemies we’ve ever fought

[fresh zephyr]

A hive god with the power of light that has been working behind the scenes since Y1

[jagged badge]

She killed and cursed Nezarec. She sealed Rhulk away in his Pyramid

[fresh zephyr]

Sounds more raid worthy than Eliksni strike boss

[orchid wedge]

Nvm

Y’all got a point

Mb

[jagged badge]

I don’t put much stock into which villain gets what activity, but your logic here is very questionable

[orchid wedge]

I just think Xivu Arath deserves one

Because

God of war

[fresh zephyr]

Even if we went off raid worthy Xivu doesn't even have a TW anymore

[orchid wedge]

[trim grotto]

When does Rahool get a raid

[orchid wedge]

TW?

[trim grotto]

Well sure but she isn't any less powerful

[orchid wedge]

Oh throne world

[fresh zephyr]

Throne World

[fresh zephyr]

Yeah but chance of cool environment significantly decreases

I wanted to see it even if I knew they never would

[orchid wedge]

We will never see her throne world

[jagged badge]

Tomorrow

You day one ready?

[orchid wedge]

If we don’t get a lord shaxx raid

I swear

[trim grotto]

You better believe it

[jagged badge]

To clear the raid you have to get a million and one kills

[orchid wedge]

Easy enough

[orchid wedge]

Eris raid!?????

[empty fern]

When he usurps xur and takes all the engrams for himself
The grasp of avarice raid

(The entire raid takes place in the loot cave, ONLY THE SMALL HOLE CAVE)

[orchid wedge]

I’m surprised xur hasn’t had his own raid or the 9

[jagged badge]

[orchid wedge]

The amount of exotics…

GRAHHHH

[gentle geyser]

Grasp of avarice is already peak

[empty fern]

The main enemy wasn’t rahool, we can improve

[outer dragon]

The 9 have a dungeon. Prophecy

[orchid wedge]

Prophecy is Kell Echo right

[peak coral]

ye

phalanx echo, wasteland, cube, rainbow road, kell echo

[dim minnow]

Anyone else noticed that Kell Echo looked kind of like a mix between Variks and Eramis?

[empty fern]

Variks?

[dim minnow]

Well Variks did have a large role in BL

He was a driving force for the story

While we went to Europa to investigate the pyramids' presence there, we didn't know about Eramis until Variks sent out that distress signal

Also after he left the PoE after starting the prison break that kicked off Forsaken, he tried to be the Kell of Kells for a time.

[gentle geyser]

Not seein it bud

I think you are just confusing it with general fallen designs

[chrome fog]

Mmm yes calling Dova bud

I can see it though, it has Variks' side wings and then Eramis' narrow V crest

Which is distinctive to her, Variks' wings is a bit more shared across other designs like you said

[gentle geyser]

Hate to inform you buuuuut…

Kell Echo body wise also just uses a more generic fallen model and not a unique model

This is simply a case of forgetting fallen character design

[empty fern]

Here’s a captain

[chrome fog]

Fair, but still

[empty fern]

Also

[gentle geyser]

Chadtain

[dim minnow]

Prophecy was meant to foreshadow stuff

[empty fern]

If there isn’t another model of kell echo, you think it’s an amalgamation of the fallen? (Looks like they have 2 models clipping together)

[gentle geyser]

Most likely

[chrome fog]

Which, Eramis was also a captain, wasn’t she? The whole Shipsteal bit

[empty fern]

Wouldn’t archon be before kell?

[gentle geyser]

Shes a kell

[empty fern]

(Shhh I forgot order)

[dim minnow]

I'm just taking that in consideration when looking at the design given to the final boss who is most likely supposed to represent Eramis who is the Kell of House Salvation

[gentle geyser]

The thing is this is simply just the characteristic designs of fallen

[chrome fog]

She didn’t become one overnight, she rallied Eliksni to gather together; and so was Misraaks, he was also a Captain in that one strike until he became Kell of House Light

[gentle geyser]

This is just their art design style

[trim grotto]

House Devils Baroness, back in the day.

[empty fern]

Speaking of designs, let’s talk about the orange bar taken, why do they have spider legs (I’m bringing back that convo)

[chrome fog]

Whatever, this is design semantics, and further increases the 🤓 reaction likelihood

[dim minnow]

Could have relation to Golgoroth

[empty fern]

True

Wait

What?

Did golgoroth develop spider back after oryx took him?

[chrome fog]

For Mothris’ message wait that wasn’t what you’re messaging about

[trim grotto]

Pretty sure Eramis is just Golgoroth in a wig

[chrome fog]

[dim minnow]

That's out of left field coming from you

[empty fern]

Dova did you just nerd yourself

[gentle geyser]

Your argument is literally just, “it looks vaguely like her”

[chrome fog]

If we kept going down this route every major Eliksni character would vaguely of two helm shapes, but we had two important Eliksni in Beyond Light, which was the point of Dova bringing it up

The whole prediction part of Prophecy

Eramis is an overgrown Captain, Variks is whatever as has the side wings

[dim minnow]

The Kell Echo uses a mix of generic Fallen biss designs sure. I jus think that the generic designs used were meant to loosely resemble Variks and Eramis who are both major characters in Beyond Light which is what the Kell Echo boss itself was almost certainty foreshadowing

[gentle geyser]

The design is not intended to reflect either of them thats the point Im trying to make

[chrome fog]

And yet, lo and behold the name of the dungeon

[empty fern]

Pls bring back devil archon design, bungie plssss

[gentle geyser]

Wtf you on about I’m not disagreeing with you I’m saying your wrong from a visual design perspective

[dim minnow]

We need archons for that, which there ain't

[empty fern]

Dovah why must you merd yourself

[chrome fog]

The bit

[dim minnow]

You know how Jesus died on the cross for our sins?

I'm getting nerd reacted to save all of you from it

[empty fern]

On another note, does the fact incarnu is sometimes an orange bar correlate with the taken levels that week?

[chrome fog]

I think it’s just being too deep into semantics for the design, when they do have some shared visual traits; nitpicking that isn’t necessary

[dim minnow]

Probably not, you used to only be able to access Shattered Throne every third week

[empty fern]

Oh

Weird

[gentle geyser]

because its a species with an established character design format…

[empty fern]

Established?

[gentle geyser]

You gonna tell me like the fallen haven’t existed since d1 launch

[chrome fog]

Which again, basically semantics for the visual design

[dim minnow]

Pick out specific generic Fallen designs that match loosely so we don't have to make the Eramis model early?

[gentle geyser]

Fallen as a whole had a design update for d2 changing their aesthetic slightly as well

[dim minnow]

House Salvation were modeled after D1 Fallen as a reminder

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-lightfall-season-of-defiance-kell-misraaks-gif-6825504783439034465

Muthris go brrr

[chrome fog]

Anyways
https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_rw0im84yYf1smzodr.mp4

[dim minnow]

Atrax though was clearly designed after House Dusk which I wished Bungie would elaborate on

[gentle geyser]

That’s because the d1 designs are better (fact)

[dim minnow]

Atrax's design went pretty hard though

[gentle geyser]

All the unique models yea but I mean basic reused ones

D1 had a better theme for them

[chrome fog]

That is pretty vague, since it’s basically all remnants of other houses cobbled together as the local hobo commune

[empty fern]

You think these armadas in the back will actually help us in final shape?

[gentle geyser]

They get clapped in the first 2 minutes from the witness hitting the griddy

[empty fern]

Fair enough

[dim minnow]

Man the ending theme to The Empire Strikes Back fits so well when thinking about that fleet in the sky

[empty fern]

Interesting

[dim minnow]

I'm referring to the track titled "The Rebel Fleet" if you wanted to listen to it

[empty fern]

On another another note, we moved the egg

[dim minnow]

I knew we moved it in there, I just had no idea where it was

[gentle geyser]

Big egg 🥚

[empty fern]

Hiding in plain sight (since no one visits at the end of the season now)

[gentle geyser]

Lets wish the dragon a happy birthday before it wishes us

[empty fern]

you fool, you’ve doomed us all to eternal suffering because that’s what the dragon deems as happy

[gentle geyser]

Baby riven needs a cupcake

[empty fern]

[scarlet temple]

Where do the vex come from

[trim grotto]

They evolved.

[dim minnow]

So basically the Vex evolved from the winning patterns of a sort of "game"

This game being essentially the universe

[trim grotto]

There's no individual known location of origin unless you look at Unveiling, but they're a natural evolutionary species

[dim minnow]

You could argue that it was the Black Garden

They describe it as their origin

[scarlet temple]

Ahh

[trim grotto]

It also isn't considered their origin and Unveiling is not worth taking at face value

So just take things with a grain of salt

[dim minnow]

Still worth noting that a lot of stuff regarding the Vex and what is said in Unveiling lines up

[trim grotto]

Yes, also true

[dim minnow]

Clarity's effect on Vex Milk being a major piece of evidence to draw from

[trim grotto]

Is it? The effect Clarity had wasn't individual to Radiolaria.

[dim minnow]

According to Unveiling, Vex evolved from the winning patterns in the Flower Game

These winning patterns were reductive since the nature of the old flower game favored the Final Shape

Now we look at Clarity which is an effect that reduces something into its simplest form

[trim grotto]

Alright, I see your point, but Unveiling is still thrown into scrutiny given the true origin of the Witness.

And what we can prove and say for certain is that the Vex did evolve

[dim minnow]

When exposed to Clarity, vex milk is reduced into a reductive pattern

[dim minnow]

Hmmm

What if the patterns originated from the Black Garden

Kinda going off of what Ikora said in the Undying trailer

And applying what we know of the Vex

Still an entirely possible explanation