📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

they did

it literally happens during the raid

“unidentified life forms detected”

after you kill Atraks is when the ai makes the decision to destroy everything for the sake of keeping it out of their hands

https://youtu.be/w-HECRJCAA8?si=SltRUSiDYqFcqN3o

the ai sees alien intruders but also recognizes human (and more importantly exos) in the facility as well

it tries letting you clean up the mess but by the time Atraks is killed, Taniks is already in the control room

so the ai just decides to nuke everything

[little gorge]

yes i can see it, that doesn't exclude the possibility of it being a completely different size next time we see it

[empty fern]

Exotic glaive lore?

The wq ones

[dim minnow]

as in?

[tawdry mauve]

they sure are

[uneven canyon]

Why were the Shadow Legion taking prisoners?

[blazing wasp]

To distract us from Neptune

And the witness' general stuff

[ember storm]

they did a shit job

I beat the whole of lf without even touching defiance content first

[tawdry mauve]

honestly a better distraction would be if they just started killing them

because there would be a significantly more urgent reason

to not bother with neptune

[blazing wasp]

Ok but age rating

[tawdry mauve]

didnt even seem that bad for the prisoners tbh

[tawdry mauve]

we kill shit all the time wdym

is executing pows suddenly worse

[blazing wasp]

In the eyes of the media

Yes

My eyes? Wouldn't care

[ember storm]

season of defiance is the exact same except we get a shot of a half dead Amanda walking out of the tunnel as a half burnt corpse like gus

[tawdry mauve]

tomboy gus

real

[blazing wasp]

Tomboy and femboy are both boy in words, only one is boy tho

Y

Is Tomgirl masculine man?

[ember storm]

I don’t like either

[tawdry mauve]

no

dont say tomgirl

[blazing wasp]

femgirl

[tawdry mauve]

tomgirl was only used by 1 person ever

in history

[blazing wasp]

Mozart?

[tawdry mauve]

cc

[blazing wasp]

I'm leaving.

[tawdry mauve]

yes

that is the appropriate reaction

whyd you bring it up man

[outer dragon]

Yall wilding
Aint never heard tomgirl as a descriptor before
@blazing wasp @tawdry mauve

Get pinged

[tawdry mauve]

why the fuck would you do that

[outer dragon]

Just letting you know you wilding

[gentle geyser]

Femboy seems to be a much more modern term

Thats why there is a difference

One has been around longer

[empty fern]

[pure tree]

After Athrys' Embrace and that one lore card where Variks finds out Eramis sent Athrys and their hatchlings to another system, do we know anything more about Athrys?

[chrome fog]

Tomgirl is masculine female, fem boy is feminine male

Wait

Tomboy

Is what I meant to type why did it turn into tomgirl

[chrome fog]

Just that she was Eramis’ wife and she’s in an entirely different solar system atm

[trim grotto]

Some minor things here and there. Nothing major.

"Athrys was Eramis's mate. Their bond was strong. She valued Eramis's strength and stubbornness; Eramis admired her gentle nature."
"Eramis and Athrys had many hatchlings. For Eliksni, hatchlings are raised by a village. Cherished by all."
"Their children were being raised to follow Eramis; to keep watch over the movements of the Great Machine. But she wished for them to be like Athrys. Makers. Builders."
"She did not want her children to always be worrying over the skies. She… ah. That is enough story for now, my friend. The memories are heavy. Perhaps… another time." —Variks the Loyal```

It's not fatal, or at least she doesn't think so. She won the match in the arena, but not before an arrogant Captain drove a Sword into her side. It cut through her Devil robes and left a bloom of blood that reminds her of the water flowers on Riis. Athrys loved water flowers.```

[shadow warren]

Oh I thought she died

That’s cool

[abstract rover]

Anyone know anything about the character Otto from the liars handshake lore tab and the Otto's resolve stronghold ornament? I havnt managed to find anything else other than those two pieces of lore

Friend of mine was telling me he was part of the drifters fireteam

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/stronghold
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/liars-handshake
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/getaway-artist
Read these in order, specifically

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/breakneck
Also this

[abstract rover]

Thanks alot!

[remote fox]

Was it ever said what element of the light shaxx likes to use the most?

[trim grotto]

Arc, mostly. But he's used all.

[remote fox]

In the crucible. Because ikora and Saint stick to void but I can't find lore on shaxx

Where does it say/show him using arc?

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/redrixs-claymore
For example

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-thieves-den

And another

[fiery copper]

Holy shit i never knew getaway artist was part of an overarching story, that's sick

I love that

[light stratus]

Just wondering, could someone wield the three forms of light at the same time

[trim grotto]

Osiris has done so in rapid sequence in a single battle. But at literally the same time? We've never seen it.

[light stratus]

Imagine like a titan with solar hammer, the void shield and ark punch

[trim grotto]

It's not implausible to consider. It could happen given a sufficiently adept and powerful Guardian. It just hasn't happened. It doesn't mean it is or is not actually possible.

[light stratus]

It could happen in the final shape

[heady mantle]

wait so is the 15th wish real

[empty fern]

Yes, and it’s coming to your theater this month

[heady mantle]

we were right!!!!

what does it do in LW

like wish wall

[empty fern]

No idea,

It’s a seasonal after all

[heady mantle]

15th wish: "no more riven cheese"

[empty fern]

My god

They know too much

[fiery copper]

Honestly I think the riven cheese is intended. Ever since bungie noticed it, it's always been extremely hard to pull off, and you always barely have enough damage even when you DO kill her.

[gleaming pebble]

anyone know why tf there's a normal knight on the moon

I just killed a knight and its armor was white, like the normal ones, instead of red like the Moon Hive's

[fiery copper]

Oh thats Greg he's just using his paid vacation days

2000 years of benefits really stacks up

[gleaming pebble]

he wasn't even aggroing

I accidentally shot him

[blazing wasp]

Huh

Hard to pull off?

[fiery copper]

Wait did he have a special name? Like Lunar Something

[gleaming pebble]

no

no name nor health bar

[fiery copper]

That's

Weird

Did a bunch of dudes spawn in after you killed him?

[gleaming pebble]

no

it was in a weird position tho

kinda looked like it was crucified?

but not attached to anything

I found it after I did a boss patrol

I found the patrol in Sorrow's Harbor; it was the one about killing the Fallen Captain

I killed the captain, wandered into a building, and found the Knight and two acolytes

[gleaming pebble]

ok I found him again

it said Lunar Scavenger this time

[abstract rover]

Very niche and random question but does the colour schemes of the black armoury themed armour have any significance?

[gleaming pebble]

I found a bunch of other Lunar Scavengers though, and they're all Moon Hive with the red chitin

[round fiber]

This might be a dumb question but doesnt anyone know in lore is it ever night in dreaming city?

[ember storm]

i mean it's kind of some hidden space on top of a field of asteroids, so

probably not but there's wish magic shenanigans all around

scientifically speaking it's not like they're on a spherical object so there's not really the proper rotation

[round fiber]

I figured as such. I know Mara created the dreaming city and I wasn't sure if the curse was causing it

[unreal tulip]

Y did calus seek a hive commander?

[peak coral]

when

[chrome fog]

Because imagine taking over the enemy army that just wiped your home planet

[versed orbit]

he wouldn't give a shit

[chrome fog]

Season of Opulence; we find out he’s been doing cloning experiments to make a guy who could wear the Crown of Sorrow, presumably which would allow control over Savathun’s Brood

[peak coral]

oh

[chrome fog]

He would very much give a shit because that’s his empire that’s getting wrecked, though at this point he was exiled

[peak coral]

that time

ok

but wasnt that about "getting the right cabal to do that" instead of "hive commander"

ghalran and whatnot

idk

[chrome fog]

You meet a nightmare of the dude in the Duality dungeon, finally killing him after failing to do so in Season of Nightmares

[peak coral]

*haunted not nightmares

but alr

[chrome fog]

He was vat grown to wear the helmet while resisting the influence of Savathun, which failed

[peak coral]

and he became the cos boss

;3

[chrome fog]

Gahlran was a big dude, took up an entire arena

Then we killed him

Then he came back as a Nightmare in Haunted

Anyways, Calus planned on Gahlran taking over the Hive and leading a charge back to Torobatl, taking back the throne and also getting another army to bolster his forces (he’s enlisted alien forces for his army, Psions being the most notable, but he also had a personal strike forces known as his Shadows, composed of a number of various individual alien members)

[fierce dune]

Is the 15th wish to ascend to a higher state.

[outer dragon]

He was a toddler

Ghalran was like 2

[outer dragon]

We don't know exactly what the 15th Wizh is. It is likely what is needed to give us the ability to enter the Traveler

[fierce dune]

I’m guessing it’s to ascend because the only way for savathün’s wish to be manifested riven had to literally die.

[outer dragon]

We don't really know
The exact context is something we will figure out during Wish

[unreal tulip]

Says it in duality

It was like "you were born to be xxxxxx and I seek a hive commander but we both know those are hard to come by"

Something like that

[peak coral]

o

[fervent sandal]

I heard that the vex that we know the goblins, minatours, etc are just wroker vex? That they're not actually combat units is that true?

[outer dragon]

That is from Calus's scribes fanfic about us.
It could be true
But also we have reports from the Hidden that Vex combat forces were on Europa before BL amd Wyverns were introduced in BL

Im struggling to find the exact lore tab

@chrome fog @trim grotto
Can you give me a hand here? I don't remembered the exact lote tab from the Chronicon talking about Vex and I know it exists but I can't find the Hidden report from the BL collectors edition talking about combat Vex frames

[fervent sandal]

Hmm

[little gorge]

the twab calls it "a means to enter the portal"

[gleaming pebble]

how much do we actually know about Malphur and Yor's duel

we know the surrounding circumstances, but do we have anything that explicitly tells about triggers being pulled, shots fired?

[empty fern]

OOOO IDEA

But I already disproved my idea cause we already opened preadyths vault

(Echos would be about rescuing preadyth from the vault like Saint from the random season)

[ember storm]

i mean if shin were hit he'd just be fucking dead so

[trim grotto]

In step with my motion, the fire within burst into focus – through my shoulder, down my arm – as my finger closed on the trigger of my third father’s cannon.

Two shots. Two bullets engulfed in an angry glow.
The other fell.

I walked to his corpse. He never raised his cursed Thorn – the jagged gun with the festering sickness.```
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-the-last-word-4

[trim grotto]

That'd be because it happened in the Menagerie as a voice line

One sec

[outer dragon]

Im dumb

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/wf3UiffrDFg?si=eXA1jZstBj5pW8i7

[trim grotto]

You're half right. Vex are worker units, true. Every unit and tool, even their weapons, are devices with other purposes. Rifles that are actually data projectors, for example.
But every Vex frame is combat capable. We don't have any real lore on "Warrior Vex" other than mild rumours, and no, Wyverns don't count. They're literally utterly without lore past some unit names and an off-hand vaguely described mention in a single lore entry.

[ember storm]

wyverns also following the same tropes of weapons being tools and filling in the exact same positions as other "standard" vex

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/slap-rifle
For example

[ember storm]

the first wyvern boss we fought was just one of the data sponges in override alongside a hydra and a minotaur

its sole purpose was to just exist within the network as a living node

[outer dragon]

The only other thing we have to go on is this bit of intel from the BL collector's edition

I thought it specifically mentioned combat oriented frames

But it does not

[ember storm]

this is just referencing the glassway strike

[outer dragon]

I know

[ember storm]

which is led by two hydras

i know it's not your fault but it's just the destiny community being the destiny community

reddit, mostly

[outer dragon]

Yeah, I incorrectly remembered this report

[ember storm]

i just find it very annoying every time there's anything destiny related that's not whining about balance changes, there's a comment "explaining" lore that's just wrong

like somehow people still think Ace is a real individual?

now i'm hungry

community poll what do i eat for dinner

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/VFC3goJ41WM?si=9kLWos42j-QyDEFb

Ghalran was bred to wear the Crown of Sorrows in Calus's stead. To command the Hive linked to it, while keeping Calus safe. A good move, as it turned out, because it was trapped, and took over Ghalran's specially engineered mind.

This led to the Crown of Sorrows raid

[trim grotto]

Well, no, to be fair, Ace very well may have been real. But Cayde doesn't actually know who Ace is. Cayde's just holding onto the concept, the idea, of who this person may have been or what they meant to him. He's essentially... artificially engineering a relationship with a person he knows nothing about.

[ember storm]

the possibility of having a child is there, but they just wouldn't be ace and nothing even confirms they'd be a son

ace as a concept was completely made up

[trim grotto]

Pretty much yes

Alright lore has been dispensed now I go do life things for a while

[ember storm]

you'll come crawling back eventually

[chrome fog]

pizzr, lik in de fredder mover

My brain is fried I cannot wait for my last shift next week

[orchid wedge]

I will never understand riven

Still gonna be my favorite raid boss

[trim grotto]

What's confusing you?

[orchid wedge]

Her abilities and her intentions as a whole

[ember storm]

abilities: she's an ahamkara, able to feed off of desires and use the anthem anatheme to rewrite reality to benefit herself

ahamkara usually do this as "wishes" but always screw you over

riven was also partially taken, as add in ability to summon blights and lesser taken

motivation wise she wanted revenge on the awoken for her imprisonment and helped savathun to do it

now she's "dead" but ahamkara can transcend death, so now she's technically free

[fiery copper]

Specifically, ahamkara feed on the difference between the current universe and what it will become when they grant your wish.

[orchid wedge]

So basically god like dragons

Got it

[fiery copper]

Kinda

[orchid wedge]

In my opinion she gotta be the smartest thing out there

[fiery copper]

This is worded really weirdly so I'm gonna try and explain better

The bigger the list of universe patch notes caused by your wish, the tastier it is for an ahamkara

You know what no that's worse

[orchid wedge]

As she literally tricked the taken king

[orchid wedge]

Demon God Like dragons

[ember storm]

i mean it didn't make much of a difference either way

she still ended up taking the orders of a hive god and never really got to take advantage of her half-taken status

[orchid wedge]

Hmm.. random thing

Isn’t she like the biggest thing in size we’ve fought so far

[fiery copper]

I mean raid oryx was so big we could only ever fit his upper torso onscreen

Idk the exact sizes

OH

In spire of stars we blow up whole ass cabal assault ships

[orchid wedge]

I wish I got to play the leviathan raids because they seemed to play huge part in the story

[fiery copper]

You will be glad to learn

No

Eater of worlds was complete filler

Spire was barely better

By barely I mean it wasn't better at all it was filler too

Leviathan is the only important one, and thats just because we meet calus and see the locations so that the old fans can go OH MY GOD I KNOW THAT PLACE during Haunted

[orchid wedge]

Lolll

[fiery copper]

I cant think of a single thing that leviathan set up other than "this is calus, he's a robot and he likes american ninja/wipeout"

[orchid wedge]

What about scourge of the past or.. Crown Of Sorrow

I missed those as well

[chrome fog]

Babby gahlran

[ember storm]

scourge was only relevant to black armory's story

which wasn't a whole lot

there's barely any story to that

crown of sorrow is the same with opulence

[orchid wedge]

What other raids are there.. I think that’s all the raids I missed really

[dim minnow]

you want raid story?

I gotchu

ok, so Scourge of the Past, as stated, was tied to the overall story of Black Armory

so I need to explain Black Armory's story

[orchid wedge]

I have no idea what that is

All I know is insurrection prime

[dim minnow]

the Black Armory was a Golden Age weapon foundry that was set on preparing humanity for the worst

Ada-1 (who is currently the transmog vendor) was the last member of the foundry remaining and has been running it in secret for a while

[vapid nymph]

nerd chat 2

[dim minnow]

she was also the daughter of one of the founders

flash forward to Season of the Forge (when Black Armory was released), we visit Spider because we still owed him a favor

you see, previously, in the Forsaken campaign where we were avenging Cayde's death, we sought out the Spider for help on tracking down the Barons

since he helped us, we owed him

and in Season of the Forge (I will also refer to it as Black Armory), Spider decides to call in the favor

this favor includes us helping out an acquaintance of his who we find out is Ada-1, the curator of the Black Armory

she sent us to go around and find the lost Black Armory forges so we can get them running again

meanwhile, a Fallen syndicate called the Kell's Scourge began stealing Black Armory tech for their own benefit

we find out that the Kell's Scourge is being led by Siviks, Lost to None (aka Spider's brother)

after we went around reactivating lost BA forges, we would eventually find out that Siviks is trying to break into an old BA vault located in the Last City

so we go into the ruins of the Botza district to reach the vault and stop Siviks from stealing the BA technology there

and this is the plot of the Scourge of the Past raid

after we destory Insurrection Prime, Siviks escapes and we chase him to a hidden BA forge in the EDZ which was also the location of Niobe labs, where Ada-1 first became an exo during the Collapse

and it is there where we finally take him out and we reclaim a BA relic of great value known as the Obsidian Accelerator

and then we return it to Ada-1 who was able to restore her full potential of acting as a mobile forge

[orchid wedge]

So Thieve Boys

[dim minnow]

uhh

sure?

[orchid wedge]

Alr I’ll just call them pirates

[dim minnow]

don't really know what that means

[orchid wedge]

Well

They stole

So

[dim minnow]

Kell's Scourge were more like Anarchists really

[orchid wedge]

Anarchists?

[dim minnow]

well actually, Kell's Scourge were anarchists

[orchid wedge]

Is that because of Ablazed Glory?

Ohhh

[vapid nymph]

fr*ck the system

[dim minnow]

so yeah, that's my crash course in the story for Black Armory and Scourge of the Past

now, you wanted to know more about the Crown of Sorrow raid as well?

[orchid wedge]

Si

[dim minnow]

ok, so the Crown of Sorrow raid

prior to it, Calus had his loyalists attack a Hive war moon (essentially moons carved out into ships) where they stumbled upon an artifact referred to as the Crown of Sorrow

[vapid nymph]

what the scallop?!?!?!?!?

[dim minnow]

upon examination, Calus figured out the the Crown served as a sort of two way seeing device

however, Calus also figured that it was probably a trap so he did not want to put it on

however he didn't want to miss out on what it could offer, so he used the cloning facilities in the Leviathan to create a gladiator whose sole purpose would be to wear the Crown

this Gladiator would be known as "Gahlran, the Sorrow-bearer"

so Calus would force Gahlran to wear the Crown after being alive for mere minutes

and since Calus was right about the Crown being a trap, something bad happened

Gahlran's mind was pretty much gone and it is assumed that he was now under the control of Savathun

so then Calus sent us into the depths of his Menagerie to destroy Gahlran

in the end, we would succeed however the crown would remain intact

Calus, still seeing value in it, decided to keep it

that is the story for the raid

as for what happened with the crown later on

eventually, Calus would be able to get rid of the Hive magic that made the crown a trap and revealed a new purpose

the Crown was now able to merge minds together

using this, Calus would capture Scorn from the Tangled Shore and would use them with the Crown to try and contact an entity that we now know is the Witness (this was before the Witness was revealed)

funny enough, this was before Calus himself knew about the Witness

[orchid wedge]

Funni

[dim minnow]

anyways, we would discover the aftermath of these experments where Calus vanished mysteriously leaving the Crown aboard the Glykon for us to claim

later on in Season of the Haunted when Calus and the Leviathan returned, Eris would use the Crown of Sorrow to bind us to the Nightmares aboard the Leviathan so we could get rid of them

basically group therapy but with looter shooter mechanics

any other raids you wanted to learn more about?

[orchid wedge]

Sorry I was taking care of my lil bro I guess the one I wanna learn about is Leviathan eater of worlds (Argos.)

[dim minnow]

ok, Eater of Worlds

while Leviathan was us being invited by Calus, EoW was us infiltrating it through its underbelly

however, we get caught by Loyalists and have to fight them off

eventually, Calus calls them off

according to the dialogue, he hasn't met us yet so either we do EoW before Levi, or lorewise, EoW is not done by us

or maybe Calus's brain really was oxygen deprived

whatever the case, he claims to not know the Guardians who infiltrated the Leviathan in EoW

anyways, after he calls off his men, he decides to sent us into the Leviathan's stomach to get rid of something clogging it up

we of course figure out that this blockage was Argos who we destroy

[dim minnow]

after Argos is done for, Calus teleports us back into the Levithan final chest room where we see that there are fewer Calus robots hanging around implying that the Levithan raid has canonically been run multiple times at this ppint (so I guess we would have had to do Levi before EoW lorewise)

all it really did was improve our standing with Calus at the time

as for Spire of Stars which I think you also wanted to know more about

so Val Ca'uor was one of the last high ranking Red Legion officials remaining post-Red War

after Ghaul's death, he had the Red Legion raid Mercury and Mars for resources

then he gathered a fleet to attack the Levithan since he knew he needed to take a big ship if the Red Legion were going to strike back

now in Spire, we weren't invited by Calus, nor were we doing a Vanguard covert ops, we pretty much went there on our own accord to aid Calus

and so we kill off Val Ca'uor and stop the Red Legion attack on the Leviathan

and now Calus is really starting to love us

[orchid wedge]

Didn’t make sense when he became a disciple

Like bruh we could’ve been buddies

[dim minnow]

no, we couldn't

[orchid wedge]

His daughter was our buddy

[dim minnow]

Caiatl really despised Calus though

also, in Season of Opulence, we find out that Calus is a lunatic

Season of Opulence was when Crown of Sorrow raid was released

in case you didn't know

[orchid wedge]

Oh I did not know that

[dim minnow]

ok, so basically Savathun gives us a bunch of entries from a book known as the Chronicon

the Chronicon is essentially a telling of the future

or what Calus claims the future is

[vapid nymph]

fanfic

[dim minnow]

apparently when Calus first met the Black Fleet at the "Black Edge", the Witness showed him the future

and the Chronicon was where he had his scribes record these premonitions

and it is really hard to describe how batshit the Chronicon is

like, he was really smoking that European Dead Zone blend Egregore reefer

[vapid nymph]

difter think ghost yumy mmmmm

[orchid wedge]

😂

[vapid nymph]

and we beat up ikora cuz she’s bald (scary)

[dim minnow]

during the Chronicon, Calus claims that we kill Drifter by force feeding him food, one of which was his own Ghost baked into a pastry

[vapid nymph]

exactaly

[dim minnow]

"root of beers"

"nugget of chickens"

[vapid nymph]

slurmp

[dim minnow]

like, you just read through the Chronicon and you start seeing the stuff Calus claims is the future and you'll just be like "what the fuck?"

and I just love how Savathun showing us the Chronicon is the lore reason as to why we stopped returning Calus' calls

[vapid nymph]

we got weirded out cuz bro was writing some creepy ass shit in his diary

then we ghosted him

[little gorge]

i love when bungie writes lore books in this tone

really grandiose yet ironic

[dim minnow]

the Awoken as we know them were created because a man was killed by a rabbit embryo

[unreal tulip]

What exactly is an exo? And how are they made to be sentient I suppose compared to other robots?

[vapid nymph]

robot guy

also, modified human consciousness stored in a robot body

[dim minnow]

Exos are when a human (or an Eliksni as the case was with Atraks) has a scan taken of their brain

this scan is then implanted into a fully mechanical body

it is worth noting that getting the brain scan kills the original body due to radiation

oh, if you are wondering, exos always start with [name]-1

this is because "0" is designated to the person's original body

[pure tree]

What lore entries are out there of the feats lightless guardians did during the Red War?

Other than Shaxx and a bunch if frames taking over a red legion command ship (I think), I can't think of many red war lore entries that weren't like, super depressing

[trim grotto]

Let's see... there's the Solstice sets of old, though that's... not full of happy stories.

[pure tree]

Most of the red war stuff I've found before the awakening of the traveler usually ends with smth like 'and then they died'

[trim grotto]

Yes. Yes, they did.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/search/Solstice/page/1?document_type_id=0

There... weren't many happy stories from the Red War.

Saladin hid. Protected civilians.
Ikora went to meditate.
Cayde got himself trapped in a gamble of long odds.
Zavala was stuck keeping his people alive in a guerrilla battle on a distant moon against two forces.
Everyone else scattered. Hid. Fought. Died.

[pure tree]

How much of the action before the travelers awakening do you think was not from our actions in the red war and the final assault against the occupied last city?

So from other lightless guardians and militias

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-evas-journey
Try this, by the way

[trim grotto]

The Red War lasted for months. In the Last City it never really ended, with refugees and fighters stuck there for most or all of the time.

For example...

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/cosmos-shell

Here's an example of what you asked for originally, in fact

[pure tree]

Aight thanks

[pure tree]

This actually was one of my other questions

Like what happened to all the people in the city trapped there

[trim grotto]

Eva's Journey covers some of that question, actually.

Good book.

[pure tree]

The red legion sealed the traveler in like a matter of hours, and so neutralising the biggest advantage of the guardians

That's not a lot of time to evacuate a city that large

[trim grotto]

That's right. And we didn't.

Day in, day out, this became her quiet routine. She faded into the background of the Underground: plan, move, sew, repeat. Even when contact was finally made with the Farm and getting survivors to the EDZ became the goal, Eva was always there making sure the trains ran on time.

After some thought, she asked that her role not be spread around. She got word to people like Tess that she was alive, and that was enough for her. She had the chance to get out of the City dozens of times.

But every time she thought she'd take that exit, go with that convoy, she stopped herself. Settled back. Did the work.

That was how the months of the Red War passed for Eva Levante.```

[pure tree]

So by the time we returned, there was still active resistance that existed from the day the cabal attacked?

Like, idk if I'm misinterpreting the consuls words if he's just talking about guardians, but it sounded like he ordered everyone who stayed to be killed and everyone who fled to be hunted

[trim grotto]

The Consul and Red Legion didn't care for Humanity. The Red Legion cared only for the conquest, and Ghaul cared only for the Traveler and its Speaker. We were... in the way. Another species in a long line of many.

[pure tree]

Ig what I'm asking is that was there an occupation or was it just wipe everyone out

Ah

[trim grotto]

If they had succeeded, Humanity likely would have been fully conquered. Some kept as slaves. But we're a small species to the Cabal Empire.

Well, we were, before the Siege of Torobatl.

[pure tree]

Also, do we know how shaxx managed to take that cabal command ship? The one that became a crucible map

Wouldntve the cabal simply destroyed it if they knew it was lost, because there's other cabal ships in the skybox of that map too

Or did Shaxx capture those ones too

[trim grotto]

As far as I'm aware, there isn't any information on that particular map. @dim minnow knows the lore of the early days a dash better than I do though, so perhaps he will know otherwise.

Maps in general don't have lore though, bar the D1 ones

There are some minor exceptions, though. Emerald Coast, for example.

We have a few possible locations for where it may be located.

[pure tree]

Fair enough, it would've been used post awakening anyway, so it's possible that they had simply captured that entire fleet now that they had the light again

[little gorge]

eva being relevant to the red war is so funny to me

[chrome fog]

Either stay and enjoy the stories or get bent

[blazing wasp]

why not both

[chrome fog]

Aight wait, I didn’t recognize your game, my b

But still, we all nerds enjoying the same thing

[outer dragon]

Here is a spinfoil theory for y'all
Eva Levante is a secret Ahamkara. Think about it, she could get the energy from the wishes for god roll gear during events and gets to twist the wish by giving most Guardian bad rolls so they keep wishing for gear.

[little gorge]

that implies there's an alternative universe where we figure that out and the next season is season of eva instead of season of the wish

btw now I'm wondering

was the egg in the imbaru engine just so we could find it

or was savathun using it somehow

[outer dragon]

Its a spinfoil theory based on how wish dragons work

I don't actually think we will ever learn she is one

[errant olive]

maybe not for it to be found by the guardian specifically, but iirc it is implied that it is the "heirloom" that Savathun wanted to pass on to Caiatl or the Vanguard at some point

[empty fern]

What’s the lore relevance to the ornaments for raid exotics? (Like vex, malice and such)

[chrome fog]

Mythoclast is a… perpetuity engine as well as being an operable slap rifle that Guardians can wield

ToM is a weapon which is crafted using Oryx’s heart

It’s meant to apply the same logic as Xol did, but more metaphorical than literal

[empty fern]

No

The, the ornaments, like why does malice have orni with pyramid symbols

[chrome fog]

Oh

They’re not canon

[errant olive]

hiding in plain sight the final raid boss for destiny 2

Tess Everis, God of Eververse

[empty fern]

And it turns out the true enemy controlling her was the postmaster

[little gorge]

well yes it is

[hollow drum]

has any vex “combat units” appeared at all since calus stated we haven’t met any yet in like year 1

[little gorge]

but was she using it in the engine somehow

[little gorge]

no

they're still all builders

[chrome fog]

They have jackhammers which are very effective at sniping enemies

[ember storm]

they’re all just using better mida multi tools

[empty fern]

Gimme what they having

[tawdry mauve]

well

we dont know what the wyverns are

there is like 0 lore around them

so they can be anything at this point

[regal tree]

Is Arc literally electricity in destiny?

Like our world electricity

[tawdry mauve]

dont think so

the same way solar isnt just fire

[regal tree]

That was gonna be my second question Lol

[tawdry mauve]

it is related though

"Arc energy's not just electricity. Lot more finicky than that. Fission."

[regal tree]

So I could theoretically start a battery charging business

Could I use arc to charge my batteries for everyday use? And how much output could I store?

I mean considering we have literally balls of arc charges

Could I just stick one in someone’s house and get free energy?

[tawdry mauve]

dont think its that simple

arc, solar and void are all "light"

even if arc was basically like electricity its still "arc light"

and the light part is whats finicky here i suppose

because it is not so simple

[winged abyss]

How is void light?

That confuses me?

Isnt void nothingness

[smoky rose]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/k4k6ox/light_is_not_the_fundamental_forces

There you guys go

Have fun :)

@winged abyss @regal tree

[regal tree]

Damn, there goes my warlock powered battery making business

[trim grotto]

Of a sort. Void is, among other things, the power of a vacuum.

But here's the distinction. Void, Arc, and Solar, are not the same as Void Light, Arc Light, and Solar Light. These are forms that Light takes when we wield it.

[regal tree]

So my home cleaning service can still work?

[outer dragon]

Thank you

[outer dragon]

The thing is, Vex "weapons" are just tools that can also be used as weapons

So they are all builders but also all combat units.

[tawdry mauve]

so the vex are like ninjas

[outer dragon]

In the most reductionist sense, I suppose. They are more like you rocked up on a construction site/office and started harassing workers they just grab the tools they had at hand.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/line-rifle
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/slap-rifle

[chrome fog]

I mean you could still do so; Golden Age Humanity figured out how to convert Solar energy into Solar Light, and then store said Light. I also think that some of the energy for the Last City is donated from Arc guardians, but I don’t remember the source, @trim grotto and @dim minnow would know more

[trim grotto]

Turns out that Paracausal energy is actually piped through the City Walls.

Idle dialogue is a bit of a treasure trove sometimes.

So yes, in theory

[empty fern]

What’s going on in each of the d2 trials armor sets? (Gimme like a rough summary for each if too long)

(Titan)

[outer dragon]

The lore tabs?

[empty fern]

Ye, like how one of them talks about someone killing a lot of guardians and collecting their ghosts?

This one after atvistic

[outer dragon]

If someone else doesn't get to it before me, ping me when I get home @empty fern
I get home in about 4 hours

[empty fern]

Aight

(It’ll be about 12 at midnight by then )

[outer dragon]

Yeah, I work 2PM to 10PM here

Though today is a 10AM-10PM OT day

[regal tree]

Donating arc will be like donating plasma fr

[surreal flare]

the wish in the cutscene wasnt the actual 15th wish was it

like we still dont know exactly what it is right

[fresh zephyr]

technically the 15th wish isn't a story thing

[surreal flare]

what was the one in the imbaru cutscene?

[fresh zephyr]

it's just a gameplay mechanic that doesn't exist in the actual story

[fresh zephyr]

A wish

The Last wish

[surreal flare]

yeah which one

[fresh zephyr]

Savathun's wish

[surreal flare]

and it doesnt do anything?

[fresh zephyr]

A bunch of symbols on a page doesn't do anything no

[surreal flare]

when you put it in the wish wall

[fresh zephyr]

If you're asking Ahamkara working that's a whole different story

[trim grotto]

Well no
There's no Ahamkara to wish to, chronologically

[surreal flare]

so it doesnt do anything rn

[trim grotto]

No

[surreal flare]

ok ty

[orchid wedge]

Val Ca’our weakest boss we faced?

[trim grotto]

As in raid boss?

[orchid wedge]

Si

[trim grotto]

As an individual perhaps, but he had the power of the fleet behind him.

[dim minnow]

We see him slap a Calus Robot down on his own, so maybe second weakest

Then again, there are assumptions to be made there

[winged abyss]

So like void is just vaccum?

[trim grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXio7_g1g0I

Osiris can explain it well enough

[winged abyss]

So void is the wielding of mass and vacuum I'm guessing

[trim grotto]

Essentially, yes

[winged abyss]

That's cool

But I like arc

[chrome fog]

There’s never been an actual Wish Wall input for the 15th wish, even now after we found out about it, the code doesn’t work yet until probably next season

Or maybe at all

[jagged badge]

If it works at all it’s not gonna work at the Last Wish Wish Wall

Either a separate seasonal instance of that room or a new Wish Wall entirely

[devout nimbus]

Damn

So this is the chaos you get when you mix a physicist with a destiny player

[blazing wasp]

Oh hey its lettuce's post again

[empty fern]

Get pinged way later then thought

[outer dragon]

I was exhausted after work

[empty fern]

Kek

[main parcel]

Silly question (showing my D2 newbness), but is there any lore for how big the tower is, how big the population of the tower and surrounding city is, etc?

[jagged badge]

Not really. Scale and numbers are not something Destiny deals with much

(Reposting in here because you moved your message haha)

[blazing wasp]

You can probably do some math stuff to determine size, but no official scaling

[chrome fog]

Even the scale of the Traveler seems nebulous unfortunately, so it's all wibbly

[outer dragon]

Its bigger than a breadbasket

[ember storm]

but what if I have a really big bread basket

[jagged badge]

Well, people have done this with the Traveler

Or rather, tried this with the Traveler and then found out different images/cutscenes or whatever are inconsistent lmao

[dense salmon]

what’s the lore behind eternity (europa) what’s its purpose?

[uneven canyon]

Since ahamkara use people's wishes to make physical things happen, is that paracausal power of light and dark?

[trim grotto]

It is paracausal, but as far as we know, it is neither Light nor Dark.

[trim grotto]

The most notable purpose is hosting Exo original scans and memory banks.

[dim minnow]

If we're going by physical/conscious then it could be a bit of both

Though I'm thinking it could be very well Light-related

[fervent sandal]

In the lore what exotic do we actually own?

Prob one is the touch of malice

And khavostov prob?

I dunno anything else

[trim grotto]

Last Word, Bastion, Gjallarhorn, Ace, Deathbringer, Xenophage, Chaperone (replica), Thorn (replica), Lumina, Izanagi's, Jotunn, Le Monarque, Lament... I could go on.

[vapid nymph]

we canonically own necro and the other weapons of sorrow no?

wish ender too

[dim minnow]

Joxer canonically owned a Vex Mythoclast

[trim grotto]

In fact, I will

Tarrabah (earned), Anarchy (stolen), Wish-Ender (earned/replica), Vex Mythoclast (found), Touch of Malice (made), Polaris Lance (earned), Devil's Ruin, arguably Traveler's Chosen, arguably No Time To Explain, Riskrunner, Rat King (found/earned), Outbreak Perfected (recovered), Bad Juju (sort of earned/made), Cryosthesia (gifted), Collective Obligation (earned), Hierarchy of Needs (found), Necrochasm (made), Hawkmoon (gifted), Dead Man's Tale (earned/taken), Revision Zero (made), Sturm (found), Malfeasance (made), Wicked Impliment (earned)

[dim minnow]

Pre-red war

Exotic Traveler's Chosen was given to us by Zavala

[trim grotto]

Ager's Scepter (earned/gifted), Forerunner, Navigator, Divinity, Conditional Finality, Vexcalibur, Fourth Horseman, Edge of (Insert Class Glaive Here), Ruinous Effigy,

[dim minnow]

No Time to Explain is a weird case in that we own it, don't own it, once owned a degraded version of it, own a replica made by Praedyth, and own an upgraded version of the degraded version all at the same time

[vapid nymph]

don’t we also have like a billion legendary versions (undying seasonal one, mercury one)

or are those noncanonical

[trim grotto]

Leviathan's Breath, Parasite, Heir Apparent, Eyes of Tomorrow, Legend of Acrius, Sleeper Simulant, Whisper of the Worm, One Thousand Voices, Heartshadow, Winterbite, Deterministic Chaos, DARCI since it actually speaks to us, Truth (stole it, technically should belong to Eido), Salvation's Grip, Worldline Zero

[dim minnow]

I wouldn't call them NTTE just because they have a similar frame

[trim grotto]

there

enjoy

[vapid nymph]

i thought they were like various versions from different timelines cuz they’re the exact same model

[dim minnow]

Seriously though, NTTE is a lore rabbit hole

[dim minnow]

Eh, that only really applies to Stranger's Rifle

[vapid nymph]

makes sense

can’t currently find the undying one in dim but the mercury one doesn’t say nothin that aligns with that

learn somethin new every day

[chrome fog]

Reminder, which one is truth again?

[vapid nymph]

funny infinite tracking rocket that has average tracking

it has 3 in the mag and that’s the only reason it’s unique in any way

[chrome fog]

Oh wait yeah Truth

Looks sorta regular but visually unique, hard tracking which made people compare it to Gjally before the DSC raid exotic and then actual Gjally

[fervent sandal]

Isn't last word owned by shin?

[vapid nymph]

he gave it to us

[fervent sandal]

Ah OK

[vapid nymph]

“yours… until the last flame dies and all words have been spoken”

[chrome fog]

He shot a dude, we picked up the mangled wreck of his gun, and then rebuilt it

[trim grotto]

Last Word? No, it came to us when we duelled the Weaponsmith of Sorrow.

[chrome fog]

Oh huh

I might be thinking of the D2 mission

[trim grotto]

That was the D2 mission

The mangled wreck we found was of Thorn, which we turned into Lumina

[chrome fog]

Ah

It’s weird the reprised raids are giving old exotics back because technically they should’ve been gone when the original vaults got wrecked

Could one claim Paraverse shenanigans

[dim minnow]

Shin has the hardest lines in the lore

[vapid nymph]

true

bro casually got rezzed twice

[dim minnow]

You must be thinking of Malfeasance

[trim grotto]

Once

[dim minnow]

We didn't take Callum's Thorn

Hmmm

[chrome fog]

Man, three exotic hand canons mixed into Shin’s story

[dim minnow]

Maybe the one we found in Shin's campsite was his

Who knows

[trim grotto]

In the campsite? That was the OG Thorn.

The true Thorn

[dim minnow]

No, the og Thorn was in a teleporting cache

The transponder that led us to it was at the campsite

[chrome fog]

That’s the fun part, he topped Crucible and has done a ton of other shit flawless

[vapid nymph]

twice

he got rezzed once as a baby then he got rezzed again later in life

[chrome fog]

No he didnt?

[vapid nymph]

only guardian to ever do so as far as we know

[dim minnow]

The melted Thorn we found at the same campsite prior was a random replica some Shadow owned

[trim grotto]

He wasn't rezzed later in life.

[vapid nymph]

yeah he did, bungie dev confirmed it

[chrome fog]

When

[vapid nymph]

lemme find it

[chrome fog]

And for what event

[trim grotto]

Shin was confirmed to have been the child rezzed by Tianshi, but he was not confirmed to have paired with Ward's Ghost, or be resurrected after Tianshi.

[trim grotto]

Do you have the questlines on hand? It seems I'm mixing the two together.

[dim minnow]

No, but my memory is good

Trust

[chrome fog]

[trim grotto]

Right, but I want to actually peruse them

[dim minnow]

Besides, my computer is fucked at the moment

Stuck on hp loading screen

Tried system repair, restore, reset, BIOS update

[vapid nymph]

holup looks like a weird misunderstanding on my part

he was rezzed as a child, his ghost died, then once jaren ward couldn’t be rezzed shin basically took charge of his ghost and protected her

she allows him to channel the golden gun but she’s not technically his ghost

it’s weird

[dim minnow]

Jaren's ghost was the one who went to him

[vapid nymph]

yeah

[dim minnow]

Gave him TLW

[vapid nymph]

jarens ghost is the she

[trim grotto]

There is no explicit connection between Ward's Ghost and Shin. It's speculation. We do not know how Malphur wields the Light.

[vapid nymph]

we do, bungie dev confirmed it

here

https://x.com/Jonathan_Goff/status/1329552338604883968?s=20

[trim grotto]

With respect, that explicitly defies your statement

[vapid nymph]

also was confirmed on “focused fire” podcast i believe

[trim grotto]

Jon Goff's statement refers to Tianshi

[vapid nymph]

same person

that’s the thing

[chrome fog]

Actually, Cryptarchy’s been doing research into the timeline - helmed by Eruke of Destiny Lore Vault - and I think the theory is that like the Solar Hammers for Solar Titans, Shin was taught to forge the Last Word, which is why all Hunters could summon the Golden Gun

[dim minnow]

Can someone post the quote from the tweet here?

[vapid nymph]

was confirmed in this podcast episode

https://youtu.be/2crQ9NXhp9g?si=JlGnmNw1cbUV1lm1

[vapid nymph]

yeah holup

[trim grotto]

I can do you one better
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/r0y4ll/shin_malphur_an_outlier_for_all_the_wrong_reasons/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[vapid nymph]

“Shin had one Ghost (briefly), but many friends.”

[trim grotto]

I've done very thorough research on this particular topic

[dim minnow]

Thanks

[trim grotto]

Yes. One Ghost, Tianshi. Ward's Ghost was never stated to be paired with him.

[dim minnow]

And when you guardian dies, who petter to hang out with than his son

[vapid nymph]

so wait

[dim minnow]

And before you say anything, Jaren was referred to as Shin's "third father"

[chrome fog]

‘Briefly’ because it died

[vapid nymph]

you don’t lose your light when your ghost dies then

goofy as hell bruh

no stakes no more

[chrome fog]

Eeeeehhhhhh

[trim grotto]

Yes, you do. Which is why Shin is a mystery.

[vapid nymph]

tevis said he was “low on light” when his ghost died

not runnin on empty

kabr didn’t lose his light right when his ghost died

[chrome fog]

Again, we assume something to this affect, and I believe there’s some quotes regarding the Golden Gun stemming from Jarren Ward’s Light or something

[dim minnow]

And we were still able to take his light from his body's hand

[chrome fog]

Mael is more familiar, I more or less passively scanned the discussion

[trim grotto]

I actually quote this exact topic in the comments
The only examples of that which I am aware of are Kabr and Tevis, both of whom used up the last of their Light in their respective actions. Kabr formed the Aegis, and we don't even know if his Ghost was dead yet, and Tevis had his Shadowshot Bow, which was "short on Light", suggesting it was already formed.

[dim minnow]

He even managed to use the last of it to create the aegis

[vapid nymph]

so then why is shin a mystery

[dim minnow]

Icy

[vapid nymph]

he has exceptional light as recognized by yor

maybe he held onto that light after his ghost died

[dim minnow]

Remember, Shin never beat Yor in a duel

[vapid nymph]

idk

[chrome fog]

Which shouldn’t be possible regarding his dead ghost and the fact he was a baby when he was rezzed, and he had the Golden Gun later in life

[vapid nymph]

yor didn’t even need to fight him, he recognized his potential just by looking at him

and that was without even having a ghost

[dim minnow]

He just let Shin gun him down while he was monologing.

[trim grotto]

Because he's been alive for decades, somehow without dying, somehow while forming a Golden Gun
Tevis and Kabr are hardly exceptions to the standard rule, quite the opposite

[vapid nymph]

which comes back to the exceptional light. maybe his light is so “exceptional” he can hold onto it for that long

bros built different after all

[chrome fog]

And? That’s the mystery

[vapid nymph]

plus he spent a fuckton of time in the presence of a giga powerful guardian

[chrome fog]

Like, why Shin specifically (aside from “he’s just that guy”)

[vapid nymph]

if that’s true, not really. just goes to show he’s powerful as fuck

[chrome fog]

Again, why

He shouldn’t have a connection to the Traveler, his Ghost is dead

[vapid nymph]

why are we the chosen one to beat the shit out of crota and oryx and ghaul and everybody?

got lucky ig

[chrome fog]

That’s irrelevant

[vapid nymph]

neither should tevis or kabr

[dim minnow]

Because Saint said so

[chrome fog]

Except they had windows of time where they still had access to their ghost’s connection to the Light, which at the very end they consolidated into their respective items

[vapid nymph]

ghost was dead, by your logic they should instantly have become lightless

they had residual light

[trim grotto]

Tevis never did anything with his Light other than his already formed bow, and Kabr was never said to have lost his Light.

I have made a wound in the Vault. I have pierced it and let in the Light. Bathe in it, and be cleansed. Look to it, and understand:

From my own Light and from the thinking flesh of the Vex I made a shield. The shield is your deliverance. It will break the unbreakable. It will change your fate.``` His Ghost was taken, but not dead.

Also, Jaren seemed like a fairly standard Hunter. Just a very good shot.

The point is, Shin's wielding of the Light is a pure mystery - we have theories, but no evidence or solid ground to base theories off.

[vapid nymph]

maybe yor had the same amount

[dim minnow]

You know, I wish they would touch on Saint meeting us in the past more

[vapid nymph]

space dad cool i want more space dad season

[vapid nymph]

what do vex do with ghosts

convert them?

[trim grotto]

That's what happened to Asher's Ghost

[chrome fog]

Not really, my logic would still dictate they have residual light but not be able to restore it; Shin was rezzed for a couple minutes before his ghost died and he lived a couple years to grow up, meaning he wouldn’t have had any time to build any Light - nor would he be able to as a baby

[vapid nymph]

bruh this shit confusing asf

[chrome fog]

Exactly why it’s a mystery

[vapid nymph]

build light? nah

bros built different

[chrome fog]

[vapid nymph]

he just had that dawg in him and it let him keep that light

[chrome fog]

Man

[vapid nymph]

[dim minnow]

I wonder what happened to her?

[trim grotto]

Excellent question

[dim minnow]

Maybe she got full converted when Asher dropped the lake

[vapid nymph]

didn’t the pyramidion fucker kill her or smth cuz he talks about “brakion took my ghost and my arm and stuff raaah”

[trim grotto]

She didn't die. She was just Vex-y.

[dim minnow]

Reminder that Asher took out hundreds of vex on his own just to reach the lake.

[vapid nymph]

warlock moment

[trim grotto]

anyway read my post for a more clarified and clear discussion on Shin and his Light
i have many sources in there and a more thorough argument

[vapid nymph]

same thing nah?

[dim minnow]

I think she got hit with the red eye thing too

[vapid nymph]

she ain’t a ghost no mo that’s for damn sure

[trim grotto]

No. She was still by his side. He just didn't believe she could rez anymore.

A small transplex window sat in one wall of the room. Hovering there, eerily still, was a Ghost. Its single eye reflected against the inside of the window, a steady red glow.```
```The room returned to stillness. The blip of the Awoken man’s heart echoed from the machines. And the Ghost stared into the night, its red eye never blinking.```

[dim minnow]

Yep, red eye

I wonder if it has any relation to what happened to Drifter's ghost

[trim grotto]

I doubt it. Vex have red eyes.

[dim minnow]

Hmmm, is Lisbon's ghost confirmed to have a red eye as well?

She can't talk either because the Witness silenced her

Hmmm

NOW HOLD ON COULDN'T SHE JUST MAKE A SLIDEHOW OT PROJECT WORDS OR SOME SHIT

[vapid nymph]

drifters ghost is a smorgasbord of like 70 different ghosts no?

prolly not related

[dim minnow]

We know full well from Inspiral that Lisbon's ghost is mostly fine she just can't talk anymore

But what's stopping her from just using a different method of communication?

[dim minnow]

Vex corruption vs having ghost parts grafted onto you I suppose

But if Lisbon's ghost has a red eye, then that means all three mute ghosts we know of all have red eye

Which would prove that red eye means Ghost can't talk

[chrome fog]

Very much so, unless there’s an implication of vex integration somehow allowing Asher’s ghost to access Stasis and increase her paracausal range beyond the Light

[winged abyss]

Hey are we called young wolf or is that another guardian?

[trim grotto]

Going by a one-Guardian timeline from D1 to current, yes, we're the Young Wolf.

[winged abyss]

Oh that's cool

So like aren't we one of the most powerful guardians?

[trim grotto]

Uh, eh? Not necessarily.

We're just consistent, competent, and in the right place at the right time.

[winged abyss]

Then who is the most powerful?

Guardian ofc

[trim grotto]

There's no singular strongest, though Ikora is up there as one of the most powerful. Osiris was too, before Sagira died.

Lord Shaxx, Ana Bray... honestly most of the old Guardians are up there on the list.

[winged abyss]

Damn so like are we one of the weaker ones?

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't say that either, no.

[blazing wasp]

We're above average

[winged abyss]

Damn I thought we were pretty strong

[trim grotto]

Perfectly competent. Decorated, hero many times over.

[blazing wasp]

We've also got what seems to be natural talent?

[winged abyss]

That's cool ig

Now the real question is who's the strongest hunter and why?

[blazing wasp]

Our strongest feat appears to be a ungodly effectiveness when it comes to fighting dirty

[trim grotto]

Sure, we are. But I wouldn't want to face Ikora in the Crucible, y'know? She's even beat Shaxx.

[blazing wasp]

Power scaling isn't really a thing in destiny like that

[winged abyss]

Oh

[blazing wasp]

Or most works of fiction for that matter.

[trim grotto]

It's inherently flawed.

[winged abyss]

But are hunters good at anything particularly

Except

[blazing wasp]

I mean it's been heavily hinted we did too but

[winged abyss]

Gun slinging

Or sneaky

[blazing wasp]

Nothing like "ikora beat shaxx" beat shaxx

[trim grotto]

If by heavily you mean an unsure random idle dialogue from a tower civvy

[blazing wasp]

I guess heavy is maybe a stretch but

Someone outright saying "oh hey you the guy who beat shaxx" is somewhat solid

[trim grotto]

There have been a number of notable Hunters. Such as Ana Bray, whose Golden Gun would leave pools of Light.

Shin Malphur, the Man with the Golden Gun.

[blazing wasp]

Pools who are still present yea?

[trim grotto]

Ana, though. When she fired the Gun, where her Golden blasts hit home, she left behind the pools of light. Like splashes of sunlight that burned and burned."

—Lord Shaxx```

Shaxx would know. She was in his Fireteam for that battle.

[blazing wasp]

Wasn't there a d1 mission in the taken king where we interact with these pools

[trim grotto]

Perhaps. D1 isn't my strong suit.

[blazing wasp]

Lemme find a vid of it

[pure tree]

i remember ikora saying smth along the lines of she has nothing left to teach us, so we may not have surpassed her yet, but also it seems we may not be too far behind her either

[blazing wasp]

https://youtu.be/cUu6TPFPnPs?si=8nGNOTcZOVru-VmH

[blazing wasp]

Teaching doesn't equate power

[pure tree]

yeah ik

[blazing wasp]

I doubt we're making our own supers and yeeting nova bomb like they're sunbracer grenades anytime soon

We're really competent with guns and weaponry, improvising, and fighting dirty

[pure tree]

i dont think there has been any lore of us in combat outside of the actual gameplay, so its not like we're gonna get that opportunity lol

[blazing wasp]

Our achievements aren't entirely due to our light

Like, our competence with it

[trim grotto]

Anywho I must sleep
If you want my opinion or answers give me a ping so I see it tomorrow
Ciao ciao

[pure tree]

good night

[blazing wasp]

Every really big baddie has been beaten with some form of fighting dirty or using powers not entirely our own

[blazing wasp]

Gn byf

[pure tree]

all the raids in d1 and d2 were canonically run by our guardians right?

[trim grotto]

They generally leave it open to some degree of interpretation with dialogue but yes

[pure tree]

aight

well, considering how most of them were in incredibly unforgiving combat environments like crota and oryx's throne world, if they were run by our guardians, then all those runs must have been, if gameplay is any indicator, been without any wipes.

[winged abyss]

Hunters are cool and so are warlocks

[pure tree]

if thats the case, our guardians mustve been smart little cookies

[blazing wasp]

Well, our guardian* technically

We all play as the same character lore wise, 5 others are unnamed

Intentionally so

We're supposed to be a self insert of sorts, a blank slate we the player fill

[pure tree]

regardless, considering dying in a lot of these raids wouldve meant permanent lights out if the team was killed, our guardian and the 5 others mustve been smart enough to figure out how to neutralise each baddie on the fly

[blazing wasp]

Ye

[calm granite]

iirc the canon guardian hasn't died since ... red war or somesuch

you don't really die much if at all

[ember storm]

numerous times in Lightfall cutscenes

but the guardians dies as much as you die, barring wipes

there’s no “canon” answer

[calm granite]

huh interesting, I was always told there was

[ember storm]

there’s not a lot that’s canon for the guardian besides stuff actively done in campaigns

that’s the point of headcanons

and a relatively flat player character

[blazing wasp]

We do also die in warmind, no?

[ember storm]

we’re just healed

[fiery copper]

We haven't WIPED

Which also means we beat the last wish Vault encounter first try

[low gyro]

Canon guardian has big brain

[wind belfry]

That's how we figured out the 15th wish

Canon lightbearer just goated

[empty fern]

Honestly was pretty surprised about that

So, speculations anyone? On symbols and stuff

Oh I see them now at the bottom left corner

[versed orbit]

Wish wall

[empty fern]

I know I know

[versed orbit]

15th wish as if anyone gives a fuck anymore

[chrome fog]

Kinda. That’s the whole point of them bringing it back.

Like Nezarec

[fallow sky]

Did saladin and efrideet singlehandedly kill an ahamkara?

[chrome fog]

Kinda

Maybe the Ahamkara let it happen

After all, it was Saladin’s wish to slay a dragon

[fallow sky]

It was saladins wish to fight a dragon, so i definitely didn't let him

[chrome fog]

It.. did

It turned into a fire breathing dragon just for him

Hol up

Gonna pull it up

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[fallow sky]

Yeah but saladin only wished to "fight" a dragon, not slay

Atleast according to efrideet

[chrome fog]

That’s a bit pedantic

[fallow sky]

Maybe, but it removes the possibility that the ahamkara let saladin kill it

[chrome fog]

You’re right but that’s semantics
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/transfiguration

[chrome fog]

Would it? The Ahamkara can feel one’s intent, and I’m pretty sure all of those in the Great Hunt were intent on killing them all

Their whatabout-ism is key

[fallow sky]

So if you have the intent of killing an ahamkara you will always succeed?

[chrome fog]

No but also yes

Again, that’s kind of their whole deal, being massive monkey’s paws that will grant your wish/desire at a cost

[blazing wasp]

for example, if you wish to be worth a million glimmer, then the ahamkara would likely turn you into a gun or a object worth a million glimmer

rich in materials? crushed by a 10^3 cube of rare materials

[chrome fog]

A single unit of glimmer with the mass of a million glimmer condensed into its form

[dim minnow]

Chances are it was the reality warping abilities of the Guardians themselves that allowed them to kill the Ahamkara.

Since according to the Nine, we are able to force an ontological effect through our very will

[fresh zephyr]

In those one thousand voices, does riven have a voice of her own?

[dim minnow]

Are you referring to the fact that Riven mimics other's voices?

[fresh zephyr]

Yes

[dim minnow]

Hmmm

It's possible

Keep in mind though that Ahamkara shape-shift

To better suit their victims

[fresh zephyr]

What are the names of the taken meatballs?

[dim minnow]

Chimeras

[fresh zephyr]

And chimeras are able to shape shift?

[dim minnow]

And they are made from Servitors

[dim minnow]

Not sure about that

[fresh zephyr]

Im curious because of the mara illusion that uldren saw

Near the end of forsakeb

[dim minnow]

That was just Riven's manipulation

Info we got is sparse

All we really know about Taken chimeras is that they are made from servitors

[wispy cedar]

hahaha u arent funny.

[signal pawn]

If an ahamkara makes enough wishes to be even more powerful, if someone wishes for the witness to die on the spot or be killed, the wish would work.

[empty fern]

The dragons would either be a monkeys paw or not think like us therefore would not wish that

Monkeys paw being like irony
Powerful enough to defeat the witness (who knows, could become a second witness)

[trim grotto]

Logically, there must be limits and fuel to Ahamkara power. It took six of us to feed Riven enough to Curse the Dreaming City, after all.

[sand epoch]

Do exo decompose

Asking for a friend ofc ofc

[rotund adder]

As far as I know, no. But tbf, I could always be wrong, so correct me if I am

[empty fern]

Nope. Can check the ones in Europa for further inspection

Unless

Would you count old Saint corpse? But that’s not decomposing I guess

[chrome fog]

They deteriorate like any machine, ultimately that is what their frame is

They can easily repair and fix said bodies as well

Cayde lost a leg and an arm in Red War, then he got better

[jagged badge]

Well, that might be a Guardian thing

[empty fern]

Maybe

But that would bring us back to the whole “how do rez works and templates and stuff”

[trim grotto]

Which is a big ol' grey area

[jagged badge]

You’re a big ol’ grey area

[trim grotto]

[empty fern]

Get owned by the hive lady

[dim minnow]

I'm thinking that the rezzes are a combination of the Ghosts having the Traveler's ability to manipulate things physically with the weird memory stuff it has going on

Oh also, something I noticed when running Crota earlier

If you go up to the chalice of Light, you can see that it glows bluish like Terraformation

However, you can also see some traces of orange like Resonance

[empty fern]

Neat

Conspiracy theory time

[wheat flower]

Can yhe hive still produce more larvae now? Cause we have xita so shouldn't they be unable to produce more?

[empty fern]

Who’s xita again?

[wheat flower]

The bug worm underneath the rhulk encounter in Vow

[empty fern]

She’s dead no?

[wheat flower]

She's the mother of the 5 hive worm gods

[wheat flower]

That's what I'm asking

Cause we killed rhulk

[empty fern]

No a dead worm can’t make more worms

[wheat flower]

Cause it doesn't state if we killed her

[empty fern]

But for the sake of gameplay well just say that there were a lot of hive to begin with

@ember storm stop lurking in gen chat and help on the worm mother here

[ember storm]

WHO DARES

what do you want

[chrome fog]

Sleeping for a while

[ember storm]

i've never done vow but doesn't completing the caretaker encounter make the upended explode or something

[chrome fog]

Technically the Hive could just, not put more worms in their acolytes and whatnot, but if they don’t then perhaps they allow one worm to grow in size until they can harvest flesh to create more worms

[sick yew]

Isn't it us defeating Rhulk that does that?
By the time we do fight Rhulk she's still fine
It's only afterwards in the preservation mission she's all dead

Except iirc there's special dialogue from savathuns worm in the parasite gun that hints at her not being fully dead

[ember storm]

i just think its lame of bungie to do another "actually the worm god you killed isnt dead lol"

[sick yew]

I mean she's the worm mother and all
Doubt it's easy to kill her

[ember storm]

for xol it made narrative sense, xita is just a battery

[sick yew]

Worm mother strike boss when

[ember storm]

anyway vow more like

uh

bow

[jagged badge]

Mara Sov bows to no one

[sick yew]

More like wow it looks cool but I really don't wanna do it

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/magolor-traitor-magolor-overlord-muahahaha-kirby's-return-to-dream-land-gif-10324993238689996616

actually it's MUAHAHAHAHA PREPARE TO BOW POPSTAR

[chrome fog]

She is Massive though

And kept regenerating from pieces being cut off

[sick yew]

Big wörm

[lean plover]

Why cant we just ask riven to wish the witness was dead via the wish wall?

[chrome fog]

Oh man

If only it were that simple

[cyan monolith]

Because riven is dead

[ember storm]

idk if you noticed but the witness is made up of the collective consciousness of an entire dead civilization

you can’t really kill it

[gentle geyser]

Also do we the player know what the witness looks like outside of like, 2 minutes of screentime

I feel like that would also affect it

[ember storm]

people really be looking at the things famous for being evil and fucking up wishes and go “hm what if I ask them to do an incredibly massive and powerful thing” and expect everything to be fine

[chrome fog]

Mmmmm have you done the last imbaru puzzle

[blazing wasp]

Granted, a single part of the civilisation the witness consists of is teleported to you, and explodes, killing it instantly (and you), it goes unnoticed by the witness

[ember storm]

they asked for riven specifically

[chrome fog]

Wait man

Reading comprehension

[gentle geyser]

That riven sounds cool, what season was he put in?

[chrome fog]

*She

[empty fern]

Season of the witch ending (this is all the info you need)

[little gorge]

nuh uh, go solve the puzzle

[empty fern]

Muh uh guh huh

[little gorge]

btw actually if anyone hasn't done the puzzle then do it it's actually the coolest destiny "secret" in a while

[ember storm]

the rest of imbaru engine was fine

the last test was just annoying

[little gorge]

no it was an actual puzzle

the rest was too easy

[ember storm]

reddit would disagree with that

[little gorge]

reddit is not a trustworthy source when it comes to any test of basic intellectual ability

[ember storm]

but seriously i just don’t like puzzles that are just “look at everything and try everything until you get one part right and everything else follows that”

the funny elemental portal was cool

[chrome fog]

I honestly don't know how you're supposed to get the symbols for the very very last part, but I liked that we had to backtrack to the seasonal areas to find the flames

[ember storm]

I would’ve been satisfied with a more in depth scavenger hunt being the last puzzle

[lean plover]

Nuh uh. Time loop go brrt.

[ember storm]

she’s not part of the time loop

last wish was only done once

the loop literally starts after she’s dead

[little gorge]

basically there's statues that show 3 circles or triangles on some of the symbols but only 1 of them is true (it's 2 lies and a truth kinda like altars of reflection) and then you have to use what all the statues show to deduce which ones are triangles and activate them

[lean plover]

ah

[jagged badge]

[chrome fog]

So scavenger hunt but with a gimmick that only really works in a self-contained area not whole entire loading zones

Eugh

[signal pawn]

When we went to visit the guardian's tomb (player) is it the future or another timeline?

And my bad for ask

[chrome fog]

Simulated alternate future

[jagged badge]

Not at all, feel free to ask questions

[cyan monolith]

no she dead

[trim grotto]

Different timeline. Fragments of it, at least.
It was deep inside the depths of the Corridors of Time during Season of Dawn.

[dim minnow]

What if next season ends with us finally dying and the ahamkara we raised brings us back

And it does so as a way of getting us to the pale heart

[ember storm]

wouldn’t that mean Ikora and Zavala and every other guardian has to die

[empty fern]

Witness won
Everyone got wiped
Boom, act 2

[orchid wedge]

Lmao

Im surprised we haven’t been wiped off the face of the earth yet

All the threats we’ve fought have been in their home world none of them came to earth

And if they felt like it

Could’ve come wipe us out the guardians seem weak needing 6 per raid

[dim minnow]

You Say that as if it's downplaying

[orchid wedge]

I’m definitely downplaying the guardians

[dim minnow]

At this point a group of six guardians approaching you with violent intent is a death sentence

And look at the stuff a single guardian has done

We did manage to beat Oryx in a 1v1 before he got away

[orchid wedge]

Like?

[dim minnow]

Like what I just said

Beat Oryx 1v1