📚lore-discussion

[golden wolf]

and that name has been there since d1?

[little gorge]

lightfall is not things "never getting referred to once again"

literally the entire year's story is tying up loose ends from lightfall

and getting ready for tfs

[golden wolf]

I just hope final shape campaign isn't nearly as "messy" as lightfalls was

[dim minnow]

Hezen Lords was the name of the Warlock VoG armor since the raid came out in D1, so yes

[golden wolf]

f u n k y
wonder if we'll have another nezzy situation, just a name in some lore for ages and the suddenly very relevant

[trim grotto]

Presumably they led the Hezen but that just raises more questions than answers

[golden wolf]

yea, Hezen Lord kinda indicates that there are lower ranking "Hezen"
mayhaps this is another vex faction

[trim grotto]

They are, actually

[golden wolf]

oh?

[trim grotto]

Hezen Corrective and Hezen Protective

[golden wolf]

right, forgot about that
all the various vex from different periods that have showed up

there is a lore bit somewhere that says that sleeper simulant is a mini version of the warsats right? or am I misremembering?

[trim grotto]

No. However, you do see the same design during Seraph when the Warsats open up.

[golden wolf]

yea
I'm just pretty sure there is some lore about sleeper and how it was constructed/what they were

[trim grotto]

Yes, there is that.

Rasputin started up the DVALIN FORGE protocol, and IKELOS, to arm us in defence of his Mindlab. Sleeper Simulant was part of that.

[golden wolf]

thats probably where I'm getting my wires crossed then haha

[tulip knoll]

Won’t be any focus on a subclass so it should be as good as witch queen

Hopefully

[lost schooner]

how does nezarec compare in terms of power to rhulk?

[dim minnow]

not much info

though I'd presume that if Nezarec was at his original power, then his mental powers would be stronger

but physical power would probably go to Rhulk

though we simply don't have enough info for this

it should be noted that in their respective raids, Rhulk could have killed us from the start but was too arrogant to actually try until it was too late

meanwhile Nezarec was trying to kill us but his newfound power kept on working against him

[lost schooner]

how could rhulk have killed us from the start?

[trim grotto]

Possibly!

[dim minnow]

Pervading Darkness

[trim grotto]

Oh you said how
I can't read

[dim minnow]

also, fun fact, did you know that Pervading Darkness can kill other enemies

[trim grotto]

I did not, in fact, know this

[dim minnow]

I found this out when I played the Epochal Integration mission where you kill the Tormentor boss in the Calus boss room

since the fight still has Calus' version of Rhulk's suns of Lubrae attack

I saw it hit a Cabal enemy and I noticed that the enemy had the debuff aura so I kept an eye on the enemy to see if it would die if it kept on getting hit with pervading darkness

and sure enough, he did

reminds me of an older fun fact

how killing mindbent Hive in the Tangled Shore counts as Scorn kills

[trim grotto]

That's actually very neat

[trim grotto]

Oh! I also didn't know that.

[cloud kernel]

Just found out strands can’t be seen

[trim grotto]

The Strand we wield can be seen. The passive Weave cannot, to normal eyes.

[cloud kernel]

explain this then

[lavish tendon]

Hey Hi Hello! 👋

Question, how do rogue light bearers like the Drifter fight?

Are they like untrained but combat experienced street fighters?

[trim grotto]

We don't really know! We can't really point to any post-Dark Ages classless like Drifter other than Drifter himself, and Drifter usually stays out of the way. Prefers his guns over Light when he does fight, though.

[jagged badge]

That’d be someone using Strand

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/RosZn55wzLI?si=s08yDzOaUGveOPFT
Here's an example

[velvet flax]

Darkness Vanguard

[real ingot]

I was coping a few days ago that we may see Aphix Invasive again in Ep 1 since they got the Supernumeros this year

[modern holly]

ok so this seasons story beat is, as i understand it; murder filthy hive for our lord and savior, Eris

[trim grotto]

in order to stop Xivu Arath, Hive God of War

[modern holly]

we kill them physically and Eris eat their souls to gain power, right?

sword logic and whatnot

[trim grotto]

not literally their souls but that's the general idea, yes

[modern holly]

correct me if im wrong, but Xivu and friends have been genociding for millions of years

[trim grotto]

correct

[modern holly]

Eris began a month ago

so how does she even hope

to even stand a chance

[real ingot]

play the seasonal story and find out

[trim grotto]

Well, the story is actually over now, so you can find out

But the general idea was that she's being tithed to by God-slaying Lightbearers who don't need to spread the tithes out across an entire pyramid scheme tribute system

Unlike the Hive

And she doesn't have to feed an ever-growing-hungrier Worm

So whereas Hive tithes are spread out, diluted, drained, consumed, Eris's tithes are raw and pure

[modern holly]

so because its us doing the killing its able to make up the difference

[trim grotto]

It's because it's us and because it's going direct to her and nobody and nothing else
No other Hive up the chain, no Worm, just us to Eris

[weary breach]

that and || season final spoiler ||

[trim grotto]

and that

[real ingot]

Not sure why you spoiler tagged the word spoiler but sure

[weary breach]

😔 i wanted to be funny

[trim grotto]

i thought it was funny

[modern holly]

imagine if xivu was doing that from the getgo, genociding untold billions of beings for the millions of years that they did, using the first lightbearers they encountered

is it possible to simultaneously wield light and be a worm host

worm for the infinite sword logic power gain and light for the multiplier buff

[trim grotto]

An actual classic Hive style ingested Worm host? I honestly don't know. None of the Lucent Hive have that, their Worms died when they did. The regular Lucent Brood have it, but they're not Lightbearers.

I'd assume not, though.

[lavish tendon]

Thanks!

Also I'm hoping that if Bungie DOES, do a 4th class (not subclass) it would shed more light on how "classless" lightbearers fought

Like Drifter teaching us some of the moves used back then or something

[trim grotto]

Drifter's use of Light was generally restricted to poorly cauterising a wound on a man who died anyway, or lighting his jade coins on fire.

[lavish tendon]

So more utility and flair stuff?

[trim grotto]

But I am fairly confident in saying we won't get a fourth class. You'd have to make a new character, you'd lose your Veteran dialogue, they'd have to make... five new subclasses, so on

[modern holly]

Light appears to act like a scaler in the kind of increase of power you gain. cant use it to gain/increase your power beyond what was given by light, it amps whatever power level you already had to begin with

[trim grotto]

I mean that he doesn't like using the Light and thus did so as little as possible

[lavish tendon]

Agreed, but still, a person can dream

[jagged badge]

And make new armour sets for every old activity

[trim grotto]

also that, yes
that'd be dozens upon dozens of armour sets

[lavish tendon]

Any reason why he doesn't like using it?

[modern holly]

Worms on the other hand, youll start off smol and youll grow big and stronk

[lavish tendon]

Like a big part of his background

Or just that he doesn't like using it

[trim grotto]

Two major points. Firstly, he doesn't trust Ghosts, or the Traveler.

Secondly... let's see, what's the best singular example...

https://youtu.be/cciLt_d3Lo4?si=5PafjMere-TyyPkJ

Let's go with this. Real dialogue, fanmade cutscene.

This is what he saw the Light do to the world

[modern holly]

Fynch

his knight is dead as fuck, requesting to be res'd and hes straight up just saying, "nah"

didnt he also say he can "hear" all the dead hive

[lavish tendon]

Basically undying irresponsible powered up warmongerers who didn't care about those without the light

Fair enough

Also that custom cutscene was just beautiful

[modern holly]

ghosts can easily defeat any guardian and the entire vanguard overnight if they felt like it

[weary breach]

by just refusing to rez?

[modern holly]

yup

[lavish tendon]

That's also a dark thought

Like a jackhole guardian that nettled their ghost too much

And then boom

Procrastination time

[weary breach]

i am glad enemies are not crushing our ghosts like we do with Lucent Hive ones

[trim grotto]

usually they use spears or guns instead

[weary breach]

spears? i remember Cayde's ghost getting shot, but spears?

[lavish tendon]

Same

[trim grotto]

Fallen Arc Spears, specifically.

[lavish tendon]

I just thought of something

[trim grotto]

Sharp. Electrically charged.

[weary breach]

who died like that?

[lavish tendon]

How's the relationship between Drifter and his Ghost?

[modern holly]

our own ghosts are among the least things we know about

[trim grotto]

Plenty of Guardians in Twilight Gap and over the Dark Ages
But as a specific example...
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-chaperone

[weary breach]

oh god

[trim grotto]

Poor. He didn't trust it, never named it. Now it's mute due to the... event on that ice planet out of system.

[lavish tendon]

Europe?

[weary breach]

are you supposed to name your ghost?

[lavish tendon]

Also, yikes

Did his Ghost name themself tho?

[trim grotto]

Oh, sure
We're a bit of an exception as a sort of "blank slate" character but yes, Guardians name their Ghosts.
Usually.

[trim grotto]

If it did, we never learned it.

[trim grotto]

Europa? No. Outside of the Solar System.

[lavish tendon]

Well that's a neat piece of lore

[lavish tendon]

What happened?

[modern holly]

whenever something or someone are their own source, youd be a fool to completely trust it

[weary breach]

the one where Drifter died of hunger/extreme cold and got rezzed over and over again?

[lavish tendon]

I'd be pretty miffed too if I had to go through that ngl

[trim grotto]

Sort of. See, everyone else on that trip... hang on, I'll explain it in full for Zeduk

let me grab the sources, one moment

[lavish tendon]

Thanks!

[weary breach]

damn that is sad

[lavish tendon]

Agreed

How do ghosts hide tho?

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/ancient-apocalypse-suit-warlock
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/illicit-reaper-bond

Now, for the raw tale, here it is. A tale in six parts, read in order. But for the TL;DR...

Actually hang on I've got déjà vu, I've done this before

#📚lore-discussion message
Here, read from this onwards

[candid inlet]

maelstronnar (ID 238506376165457920)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/ancient-apocalypse-suit-warlock
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/illicit-reaper-bond
So, @cyan monolith
If you want to read the tale yourself, I've got those here
It's a great read, six entries
But for a TL;DR, I'll condense it for you

Command triggered by maelstronnar. Message link from · Oct 4, 2023, 2:15 PM

[weary breach]

on an unrelated note: i find it funny that 3 characters from Seventh Seraph gear lore bits have slavic surnames.. Voronin, Bykov and Morozova

[lavish tendon]

I love the Seventh Seraph huns!

Look so neat

Especially the Handcannon and the Sidearm

[lavish tendon]

Aslso thanks!

[weary breach]

i meant armor 😔 but i feel ya, even tho i like sidearm and carbine

[trim grotto]

Either they do their little vanishing act into a waveform or they just, uh... hide under a rock or something.

[modern holly]

idk about yall but the pyramid ships lost their intimidating, threatening, eerier, etc, allure

[trim grotto]

It's the natural progression from being in contact with something for so long

[modern holly]

after revealing theyre nothing more but coffins for the witnesses race

and were built by them

just ships

[lavish tendon]

The other former sounds complicated, and the latter sounds comical, I like both

Also DAMN, that was gruesome

[trim grotto]

They're still paracausal entities

[lavish tendon]

So Drifter was the first one to discover that the Darkness could be used?

[trim grotto]

It's just what they do when you see them vanish

[trim grotto]

Weellll... no. But he was one of the first pioneers to bring it to the Guardians, who wasn't corrupted by it.

[weary breach]

the fuck?

[real ingot]

In terms Risen he was one of the first to not corrupted by it

[lavish tendon]

Oh yeah

Forgot about Yor

[lavish tendon]

And he uses them

[modern holly]

yeah but the paracasual ability was added on after the fact

[lavish tendon]

Dear God the more I learn about the games lore the more depressing and gruesome it gets

[trim grotto]

Depends on where you're looking. But yeah, there's some dark spots.

[lavish tendon]

Also Maelstronnar-3, what's the name of the helmet on your pfp again?

[trim grotto]

Gensym Knight Casque

[lavish tendon]

I used that a lot on my old 0s4 acc

[trim grotto]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/615994270649810954/1150820339090194442/2023-06-11_14-22-09_Copy_01_2.gif

[lavish tendon]

Thanks?

!*

I miss that helm

[jagged badge]

What?

[lavish tendon]

It sucks having to restock my collection with purps again

[modern holly]

it was always implied they were like, the embodiment of darkness given physical form

[lavish tendon]

Alongside the Fallen themed cloak

[trim grotto]

Pretty sure the armour can be found in the Dares of Eternity loot pool
Ask in #❓destiny-questions

[weary breach]

and what's that cool cape?

[jagged badge]

I dunno about that, but regardless that’d be paracausal anyway?

[lavish tendon]

Oh yeah, sounds about right

[trim grotto]

Omega Mechanos, which is an Eververse set
Sorry, that one costs real cash

Full armour set though

[jagged badge]

L bozo spending money at the Eververse could never be me haha
(I am in crippling debt because I just needed those ornaments)

[weary breach]

Also do we have any info on what happened to the guy from Seventh Seraph armor set lore entries after he got put in coldsleep?

[trim grotto]

i may or may not own literally all the EV full armour sets

[jagged badge]

DAMN

[lavish tendon]

HORY SHET

[trim grotto]

Actually, no, we don't. Not that I'm aware of, anyway.

[weary breach]

i hope he's alive

[trim grotto]

@dim minnow, you've been over those entries a few times. Any insight on saper's question?

[modern holly]

they were initially built as just normal regular ships for them to expand their civilization once again, having nothing to do with anime bullshit science

[jagged badge]

I mean, they were built under the Traveler’s influence, no?

I don’t understand what you’re trying to get at

[modern holly]

that came after the traveler saw the signs and tried to save itself before getting stabbed

theyre just ships

[jagged badge]

We see the Pyramid ships before the Traveler leaves

[modern holly]

before they would give the impression of being darkness entities

[jagged badge]

That’s how they go off to find the Veil, no?

[trim grotto]

It's a moot point
They're not what they used to be and weren't originally Darkness, since they existed prior to the Veil being found
What they were then doesn't equate to what they are now

They have become more than mere ships

[modern holly]

im not refuting that

[weary breach]

and another question..
Are guardian dropships equipped with ship-to-ship weaponry? or the guns on Minerva-class dropships/other ships we sometimes have as backup in strikes/other missions only good for shooting infantry?

[trim grotto]

A handful do have weapons on them but the jumpships are not typically combat craft, with some exceptions

Let me find the one that comes to mind

prepare for paragraph jumpscare

Plates split open along the belly of the ship. A drum-launcher of six Warspikes rolls out as Jinju links into the launcher's gunnery apparatus. Indicators blare onto the canopy HUD. Jinju sends two Warspikes straight into the first of fifteen Warsats blocking their path as Ana nudges the ship between incoming laser bursts.

Two spiked Warsats cease fire as their automated defense protocols are overridden, security software utterly failing to halt Rasputin’s invasive assimilation. They come back online—spikes blending into spokes—and swivel to gun down the closest still-hostile targets.

The assimilated twin Warsats thrust to reposition into a shield for Ana and Jinju as they close distance. Crimson flare shines around the Warsat shield as lasers chisel into them. Ana watches HUD pings for an opening between incoming bursts. She finds half a moment and burns hard on the main engine, then toggles full power to maneuvering thrusters to sling the ship under Rasputin’s shield and open a lane for Jinju.

Jinju unleashes four more spikes. They strike true. Rasputin spreads digital plague through the Warsat’s frameworks with each skewering hit. He demands subservience. Laser fire tears through space in all directions as Ana cuts between dueling satellites and rolls to evade overlapping firing arcs. Concussive shockwaves rattle the ship as defiant Warsats explode or fail one by one until the firing stops.

A field of deputized Warsats and debris dead-drift within the planet’s orbital current, back-lit by radiant mesopelagic glow. Beyond them, almost lost among cloud-cream atmosphere, Caelus station.```

[weary breach]

STELLAR PAVEMENTS seems to have missile mounts, Minerva and likes seem to have a cannon

[trim grotto]

yes indeed
a number of the old Legendaries appear to have some weaponry sitting on them here and there, some Exotics too

Most aren't designed for combat though

[weary breach]

where's that from? i know it's from Ana Bray's perspective and i know her ship has a gun in mars battleground

[trim grotto]

Legacy Pt 2
Parts 1 and 2 are great reads, and are technically precursers to the Spire of the Watcher Dungeon

[modern holly]

theyre still op as fuck, mimicking gravitational singularities to warp an entire moon, cracking its crust and creating global tidal waves? yeah my ship cant do that

[weary breach]

are they.. free? or how do you get em?

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/legacy
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/legacy-pt-2
For your perusal

[modern holly]

but after their origin story being "was built as a ship by witnesses species, " is not as cool as the implication of being mysterious sentient entities of unknown origin

it makes the mystery of their existence, why this shape, are they capable of choice like the traveler., etc, get thrown right out the window

after how heavily the game emphasized the threat they posed

i miss when just seeing that was made to be a "ohhh shit" moment

[jagged badge]

As Mael said, that’s just a natural progression of a story like this

You discover the truth behind things

[modern holly]

perhaps they are right

i dont like the reveal

[jagged badge]

You don’t have to

[weary breach]

if you don't like it, get job as writer at bungie

[modern holly]

much preferred, they were discovered by the witness species and thats when they learn about darkness as the ships act like conduits for darkness power, just like traveler does for light

and no one were ever meant to harness both powers. one grants you raw power, light. the other grants you the ability to increase your power, having unlimited potential

having both = become a god basically

[little gorge]

you just described the veil

[jagged badge]

On the other hand though, the Veil being another ‘half’ to the Traveler as it were could prove to be the more interesting story

[little gorge]

we have both right now

[jagged badge]

I think we should wait until Final Shape to fully judge

[modern holly]

oh yeah at first i didnt like viel but after learning more of it, its pretty good

[little gorge]

why do people hate the veil again

and why does everyone that hates the veil seem to not hate the traveller

[modern holly]

they dont hate the viel, they hate how it was introduced

and explained, which is actually the lack thereof

its just kinda showed up

no hype, no tease, no foreshadowing really. its like when black zetsu randomly one tapped madara and immediately made himself the absolute most important character of all time

[jagged badge]

In fairness, the Traveler is barely explained after 9 years so

[little gorge]

did you miss the whole ass month before lightfall where we were all speculating about what the veil could be

[real ingot]

ackshully it was 2 weeks

definitely felt like a month

[jagged badge]

Rasputin revealed the name of the Veil in the seasonal quest, not the finale, no?

[real ingot]

After he died

[modern holly]

true, and dont we all complain about that too? with the traveler was already existing, given it was kinda just there doing fuck all but at least we could see it while it wasnt doing shit

[real ingot]

His final message was him giving us everything he could about Nefele

[jagged badge]

Oh right

Ah I’m thinking of the Cosmodrome bunker mission

But that was the confirmation he didn’t fire on the Traveler

[real ingot]

Nah that was where he explained Abhorrent Imperative

[lavish tendon]

Question, why did the Traveler give Witch of Deception (I forgor her name) the light in the first place?

[jagged badge]

It didn’t. Immaru did

Immaru and Savathûn met and planned her resurrection beforehand

[lavish tendon]

Oh first ghost Immaru

[real ingot]

Traveler doesn't choose who the ghost resurrects

[modern holly]

what else needs to be said? 2 weeks, even if it was a month, thats not even a seaso. we've had more time speculating about emblems

[lavish tendon]

Ohhhhh

[real ingot]

neither do they intervene unless the rule is broken

[lavish tendon]

So that's why

[jagged badge]

I suppose there’s the potential that the Traveler allowed Immaru to do it but

We don’t really know

[little gorge]

ngl we need more braytech names

[lavish tendon]

What rule!?

[little gorge]

they were really good at naming shit

[lavish tendon]

?* No !

[real ingot]

'The light must be given not taken'

[lavish tendon]

So basically the Hive did the exact opposite of what the Cabal did

[real ingot]

Rhulk and Ghaul saw the consequences of taking the light first hand

[real ingot]

The ghosts gave them the light yes

[lavish tendon]

Yep

Why did Immaru do it?

[real ingot]

benefit

[lavish tendon]

Alongside other Hige Ghosts?

[real ingot]

He thinks humanity is incompetent

[lavish tendon]

Benefit how?

[real ingot]

get with the winning side

[lavish tendon]

Fair enough

[real ingot]

Savathun did capture ghosts and convince them to join her is most likely

and peer pressure

[lavish tendon]

Makes sense

I was thinking it was more like Immaru, other disillusioned Ghosts

[modern holly]

wouldve been cool if they included gambit into the seasonal story, since drifter and Eris are bffs, couldve easily just added lines saying, "Aight I gotta help out Eris, these gambit kills will be sent to her to accelerate her power and to show how much we care"

boom done

maybe even throw in seasonal loot and the red war reworked loot

ive been tweeting at bungie to include the rotating loot pool from dares to gambit

[real ingot]

Didn’t they mention this during the season

Every guardian killed in the crucible and everything killed is tithed

[trim grotto]

yes
everything we did this season tithed her

[modern holly]

Immaru said he hates humanity because we're the only ones that "shoot the medic"

like bro how did cayde die i wonder

[trim grotto]

objectively incorrect and proof that he is a lug nut

[lavish tendon]

Wait, humans shot lightbearers Ghost, or did lightbearers shoot their own Ghost?

[real ingot]

Immaru wasn’t made first ghost because he was smart

[modern holly]

i simultenously like his character and hate that smug little shit

[modern holly]

wdym? hes talking about how we crush ghosts

[lavish tendon]

My first encounter with him was this seasons cutscene, and I immediately knew from the first three words was that he was gonna be a pompous shit

[little gorge]

this is literally the season where they made gambit less necessary to play

[jagged badge]

ABSALOM KNIFE, AURORA RETROFLEX, AURORA SACRIFICE, AURORA PALISADE, PALISADE IMPERATIVE, CARRHAE, CARRHAE BLACK, CARRHAE WHITE, EGYPTIAN, IKELOS, APOTHEOSIS, TWILIGHT EXIGENT, MIDNIGHT EXIGENT, NEFELE STRONGHOLD, ABHORRENT IMPERATIVE, LOKI CROWN, SCRY OVERSIGHT, SILENT VELES, SECURE ISIS, SIBERIAN ENTROPY, SIDDHARTHA GOLEM, SUBTLE ASSETS IMPERATIVE, SKYSHOCK: INSIDE CONTEXT, SKYSHOCK: OUTSIDE CONTEXT,
SKYSHOCK: HADES CONTEXT, TEILHARD: TRAUMATIC CONTEXT, VOLUSPA, FENRIR HEART, SURTR DROWN, DVALIN FORGE, DVALIN FORGE-2, YUGA, YUGA SUNDOWN, YUGA ECLIPSE, GALATEA REFLEXIVE, TELESPHOURUS WEAVE, NAGLFAR STEP, KALKI GOLEM

[modern holly]

doesnt he also know about all the ghosts savathun expiremented on and killed?

[trim grotto]

he's annoyed that we kill Hive Ghosts and is somehow suggesting nobody else does so, which is frankly objectively incorrect

[lavish tendon]

No, I'm asking if prior to Hive ghosts did we ever shoot Ghosts?

[lavish tendon]

Oh

[jagged badge]

This list is from Destinypedia so I dunno the full accuracy of this

[trim grotto]

i honestly think he doesn't
or he does and he's ignoring it willingly

[lavish tendon]

Well that's dumb

[little gorge]

clarity control

[jagged badge]

Well, in the Dark Age some Lightbearers did kill each other’s Ghosts

[modern holly]

not that i recall, has there ever been darkness aligned ghosts?

[lavish tendon]

These sound like some sort of Sci Fi Fantasy hybrid names

[jagged badge]

This list is strictly Rasputin protocols

[modern holly]

other than that one ghost on that ship

[lavish tendon]

And I am digging it

[trim grotto]

Well, sort of. Corrupted Guardians exist here and there, Ghosts usually follow them. Toland's Ghost was even supporting of its own death and Toland's "ascension"

[little gorge]

nefele stronghold isn't a protocol

[jagged badge]

Protocols and code words by Rasputin then

[chrome fog]

That’s kinda the point of the episodes, what if we get closure for Vex storylines we know now but then get opened up to the possibility of a Vex Villain with a personality and everything. We know so much and yet so little on how Vex minds can be independent and yet of the same system, with the closest we’ve seen being Quria

Bungie said their continuing this, and as a mid-2000s cartoon and somewhat comic enjoyer, the episodes are a perfect opportunity to introduce new major villains/build up old ones into greater threats

[chrome fog]

I’m of the mind they have a somewhat begrudging trust, even if Drifter won’t admit it

[chrome fog]

You gain power in the Light through practice, willpower, and what talent in accessing the Light you start off with; our Young Wolf is considerably special in that we are able to handle all 5 subclasses plus technically pioneer practice of two of them, which places in about the 90th percentile of Light users amongst Ikora

[chrome fog]

Ships built by a civilization that grew up and developed with access to the Traveler’s blessings. They never had a Collapse, the Traveler never left them, and they were able to succinctly study the Light to have an Oppenheimer moment, only instead of themselves taking responsibility pinned the blame all on the Traveler for blessing them in the first place. It would stand to assume that they were able to integrate paracausality into their everyday tech.
As for the coffin part, all of that species is within the Witness, they assimilated into a singular entity

[chrome fog]

Ada-1 shot down warlord ghosts with Izanagi’s Burden

Ok now I’m caught up

[lavish tendon]

Huh, a bit overkill imo, but I spose no loose ends and all that

Also hory shet, respect for the walls of text my gu6

[chrome fog]

I am the One Who Talks

I am the One Who Backlogs

breaking bad theme plays

[chrome fog]

Going back to this, serialized media like what Destiny is become has a tendency to pull this kind of thing to explore ideas they want to as well as set up a new start point for people to get into the franchise. Beyond Light is a good example of this, with the new turn towards our approach the Darkness and whatnot, which would most likely lead new fans of the franchise to ask “How was the Darkness seen in the past, both in the history of the game and the history of the universe?”

Maybe in five years time, we’ll get a boss that’s some giga-galaxy-brain master schemer who’s somehow each of the different factions merged with some technicalities, and everyone has to take them down

That possibility at the ends of these kinds of arcs are the exact time they introduce new characters “thought impossible to exist” (though generally comics kind of biff it and it’s some ‘hEy whAT iF thIs” character with a semi-interesting twist)

[ember storm]

"It's only funny when it happens to others, when it happens to me it's a serious issue"

[modern holly]

I just preferred the pyramid ships existing separately from the witness and liked them much more when they didnt have an origin story

before i saw them as their own threat. now i only see "just the witnesses ships"

take him out, they become harmless

:((

[chrome fog]

Well they’re still a threat

[slim elk]

In out of verse context
The Witness gives us something to shoot to win the game..

[chrome fog]

They’re the same as before functionally, just always in service to a greater power

Which adds onto the menace of the Witness as well as to how little we know of the universe’s history

[chrome fog]

Ironically they don’t, because you can’t directly shoot a pyramid due to the weird space warping they do

But that’s pedantic and I yeah they do

And to reiterate what Lore Lord Mael said, this might be more an issue with simply knowing more than before, which takes away the mysticism of them in exchange for understanding what they are

[modern holly]

shouldve kept it unknown, just like how the forerunners peaked in halo 1-3. when they were still largely unknown

all there was to say was, an ancient advanced civilization that built the halo arrays for unknown reasons and mysteriously became extinct

even after everything we learn in 3, to even flying in their ships and using their tech, they still maintained their allure

and thats exactly how its been ever since with no changers ever being made

ill only acknowledge halo 4 cortana

[chrome fog]

But then when would they get addressed? Would you want another Nezarec where they fade into being useless paracausal shapes that having enemies and relics or at least tie them into one of the most important events in the history of Destiny’s universe?

There’s also the fact we though they themselves could have been the Winnower, what with the constraining parallels to the Traveler - triangles to a circle, many to a singular, “speaks” to us directly rather than through implication and hope - before we had greater clarification that it was the the pyramids speaking to us in Arrivals, but the Witness themselves

They’ve been in-game for 3 years and have only had lore expounding upon their origins last season

[modern holly]

i preferred the more abstract implications

paracausal is kinda becoming just "advanced tech"

[chrome fog]

Then I say skissue, because sooner or later implications will have to be explored if the audience wants to feel like there is active members of the narrative rather than background pieces who talk and speak

[modern holly]

we barely even do that

[chrome fog]

It’s a marriage of Science and Magic, it’s the mystical with a lens of the atomic and molecular implications of being able to conjure magic. It sure is accessed mainly through technology but Paracausality itself is Just Space Magic

[modern holly]

i wish we were more active in the narrarive and not be, "im just here" "even though I do everything"

the cabal apparently also have "paracausal suppression tech"

[chrome fog]

You do remember us uncovering the story behind the deal Savathun was tricked into which involved us fighting the first disciple of the Witness we had ever seen, much less heard of

And also the revelations Ahsa has provided us on the history of the Worm Gods and the Witness

As well as a closer look at the Bray Family’s history

[modern holly]

but how? i thought paracausal meant "could ignore laws of physics" and could manipulate reality as it sees fit. how exaclty does one suppress such an ability

i meant we barely talk and speak

we shouldve been the main ones questioning res'ing savathun

[chrome fog]

Just like you can cancel out sound waves by running another sound wave whose valleys run at the same time as the original sound waves’ peaks, you do interference with the supposedly broadcasted Light; Light itself still somewhat follows electromagnetic wave patterns - with the implication the Ghost turn into a sentient wavelength when they go into our “backpack” - so it makes sense

[modern holly]

huh, thats interesting

[chrome fog]

Heck, Darkness also somewhat follows waveform patterns, Strand itself as an aesthetic follows an slit experiment pattern

[ember storm]

it took the vex ages, but they managed to craft a mind capable of completely draining saint's light

it's possible

just hard to do

[chrome fog]

Ooooo if Dova was here there’d be such a good discussion, need to find that one discussion of us pondering the implications of Resonance being Light taken to the destructive extremes the Witness species predicted

[modern holly]

thats the stuff i want it to be explorable in-game, and not buried as just wall of text but actively part of gameplay and whatnot

shit, doom did it perfectly

[ember storm]

what, paracausality-suppression?

[flat karma]

yo who dosent have forsaken, I got a free code for anyone

[modern holly]

no, just how all the in-universe powers works

[ember storm]

think you can contact a mod about doing a #🎁giveaway

[flat karma]

ohhh alri

[modern holly]

like in doom, the reason why portal from Hell opened on earth and shit hit the fan real quick is because some genius thought it was a good idea to mine energy from Hell

[ember storm]

sounds like you'd like clovis bray

that's almost exactly what the backstory behind exos and europa is

[blazing wasp]

Samuel but with worse intentions

[ember storm]

samuel but british (awful)

[modern holly]

and it explains hell energy is straigh up the tortured souls of humans that are forcfully sent to hell, and it does it both with cutscenes, dialogue and enviroment design. Like theres whole missions of you needing to go through buildings built out of cages filled with humans being tortured

[blazing wasp]

Oi mate I ain't the villain in this story bruv

[ember storm]

he's a literal colonizer

[modern holly]

whats that mission for DMT?

where ghost turned on its guardian, accepted darkness and told him "we are your salvation"

how at the end hes suspended by those darkness mold

thats probably the games best case of environmental storytelling

and funnily enough the very first opening mission

enter the building being told how humanity got wrecked after a bunch of aliens invaded as you hear and get glimpses of fallen crawling inside the walls

literally only time they do that

when you enter that spot which opens up to a massive area, fallen cut out the lights.

which i guess they forgot how to do it since they never do it ever again. its oddly the most dynamic mission in the game

they also make one of the gates slam shut at the last second

[tawdry mauve]

actually quite the opposite

they turn on the lights

[modern holly]

oh yeah, thats how you see how big the room is and that its full of fallen

[hollow oar]

what's the lore for saint beating the shit out of savathun

[ember storm]

is that a serious question

[modern holly]

saint about to get canceled

[hollow oar]

yes

i heard that that was a piece of lore that got unveiled during the last set of seasonal quest steps

[ember storm]

yeah last week or so

there wasn't a new quest step but there's another radio message

you get the lore piece

saint kills savathun a bunch of times

immaru just sits and watches

then they leave and saint gives osiris a hug

[jagged badge]

Well, he falls crying into Osiris’ arms

I wonder if that was catharsis or Saint realising he didn’t actually feel better

[chrome fog]

Saint rightfully beat her into a pulp after she impersonated his husband

Last entry of Rites of Passage lore book, still classified in the API so Ishtar might not have it available?

[ember storm]

*after she took over osiris' body and wore it like a costume for almost a year

[chrome fog]

Yeah that deserves some beatings

Plus hey technically he’s helping her learn how to come back from a rez better, but it was all for his own benefit of catharsis

[little gorge]

sav really sucks at that ngl

woke up and immediately got her throat slit

[echo fjord]

me personally

if i beat sav into a pulp i wouldnt cry at the end

[ember storm]

course not

the guardian has the mental capacity of a house plant

crying is not something they can do

[rich veldt]

breaking news, character with no soul or emotions has no soul or emotions. more on this tonight at 10

[echo fjord]

[chrome fog]

Which is somewhat the point, as well as working as a good character moment for both Saint and Sav/Immaru, it also demonstrates how one gets used to being rezzed and clarified that yes, some New Lights feel sluggish and not at their best when first ressurecting

[tender cove]

what's the best lore channel to watch for concise lore content without too much commentary?

[ember storm]

is the things on Zavala’s neck something all awoken have?

[chrome fog]

Destiny Lore Vault; just the cutscenes, idle dialogue, and everything else in-game with no commentary

There’s a handful of others as well, but DLV has been one of the bigger efforts and is dedicated to finding all instances of unique dialogue

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[chrome fog]

Huh, they’re not on there

[lost abyss]

Ishtar usually links transcripts to DLV so, I guess it's technically there.

[tender cove]

Thanks that's good to know. But what I was more looking for is like Byf's but shorter and perhaps scripted. Just stating the facts about a particular topic.

[chrome fog]

Tbh that’s a bunch of Destiny creators suddenly wanting to get into the lore audience, often getting things slightly wrong

Byf is the best source as of right now, as well as some of the regulars of this channel

[cobalt mica]

Is a single guardian as strong as a hive god (aka oryx, savathun and xive) Because there is no reason that saint was actually able to kill savathun over and over again

like are hive gods really THAT weak

[chrome fog]

Savathun was not a Hive God at the time

She was a Lightbearer

She lost access to her Hive God power when she removed her worm

[ember storm]

she has none of her power or strength as a hive god

[cobalt mica]

but she said she still has her powers

what does that imply

[ember storm]

she has light

[chrome fog]

Lightbearer powers; not to mention, Hive Magic

[cobalt mica]

ok

[ember storm]

basic hive spells is what Eris can do

it’s basic

[cobalt mica]

so basically savathun is a pushover that can't do anything at all

[chrome fog]

It’s not as amplified as before with all her tithe, but still

[chrome fog]

Play Witch Queen on legendary

[cobalt mica]

and is just as good as immarus lightbearer knight

[ember storm]

she’s not going to be a campaign boss 24/7

[ember storm]

you’re seriously overreacting and also that’s Fynch’s knight

[cobalt mica]

sorry fynch

[chrome fog]

Immaru is Savathun’s ghost

[ember storm]

Savathun literally just let Saint kill her because she tried to be sarcastic about it

[chrome fog]

Also yeah, this is a bit of an oversimplification and assumption

[ember storm]

she’s currently “playing nice”

[muted hemlock]

Do guardians just live forever until their ghosts are destroyed or choose not to revive them?

[ember storm]

so she didn’t try to stop him at all

[ember storm]

essentially

[cobalt mica]

i still dont get how saint is able to spawn kill savathun and we took 10 billion years to try and kill savathun

[muted hemlock]

Got it

[cobalt mica]

ok

[muted hemlock]

Like a the thing one day a year situation

[ember storm]

we took like two

[chrome fog]

Wait lemme pull up one of the Ghost stories

[cobalt mica]

still very long compared to spawn killing

[ember storm]

guardians definitely haven’t existed for more than like 3000 years

and again

Savathun lost all of her hive god powers

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-chosens-choice

[muted hemlock]

And we are the first civilization to get ghosts right

[ember storm]

the only reason she survived those billions of years was with said god powers

[chrome fog]

Ghosts were made during the latter part of the Collapse, so yes

[muted hemlock]

Got it

[chrome fog]

And there’s only been one production wave of them, Traveler hasn’t made any more since

[ember storm]

the traveler going around playing sims isn’t the same as creating ghosts

[cobalt mica]

so the fallen didnt have light???

[ember storm]

humanity was the first to get those

[ember storm]

no

[cobalt mica]

and the witness didn't have ghosts?

[ember storm]

they couldn’t wield it

[ember storm]

also no

[chrome fog]

Another example of a ghost ditching their chosen
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/whether-windmills-or-cranes

[ember storm]

nobody else got ghosts and was able to use light as powers

[muted hemlock]

Do we have any lore on the “guardian” fynch chose?

[green cobalt]

if we're the first to get them what do you think that means

[cobalt mica]

ok

[muted hemlock]

Then how was the hive able to lure them in and use them

[cobalt mica]

but like it quite literally says the traveller blessed them with light

[ember storm]

it’s not really a character if that’s what you’re asking

[chrome fog]

The Eliksni were blessed with a similar Golden Age, and from how splicing seems to work we can assume they had developed some form of paracausal technology

[ember storm]

Savathun lured them in personally

[muted hemlock]

Ohhhh

[ember storm]

also those ghosts were incredibly dejected after thousands of years of feeling worthless with no guardian

[chrome fog]

Also a bunch of Ghosts had read the Books of Sorrow and sympathized with the Hive

[muted hemlock]

And can ghosts teleport? I’m pretty sure they didn’t fly all the way to the throne world

[green cobalt]

light and dark didn't start existing when ghosts were made

[ember storm]

also she threatens them at gunpoint once they got there

so they couldn’t leave

[muted hemlock]

Don’t remind me

Cayde 6 all over again

That broke my heart watching that cut scene

[chrome fog]

Oh you haven’t played Witch Queen have you

[muted hemlock]

Nope

[chrome fog]

[ember storm]

it’s still funny to me that Sundance literally has zero characterization

[muted hemlock]

Haven’t bought anything

[ember storm]

no line of dialogue anywhere

not even an item description

[muted hemlock]

So can ghosts teleport?

[ember storm]

she never spoke once

[ember storm]

they can use transmat tech

which only works with transmat

[muted hemlock]

So yes

[chrome fog]

Save for like some post-humous entries about how the pair were

[ember storm]

no

it only works with an established network

[muted hemlock]

Well how did they get to the throne world

[ember storm]

they have to fly everywhere else

they flew

[muted hemlock]

They didn’t piggyback off other guardians

[ember storm]

they flew

[jagged badge]

Well, she is characterised by Ghost, but yeah she has no actual personal moments

[muted hemlock]

THEY FLEW ALL THE WAY TO MARS

[chrome fog]

Savathun probably lead them to it

[muted hemlock]

HOW FAST CAN THEY GO?!?!

[green cobalt]

what's a ghost's max velocity

[muted hemlock]

Yes

[ember storm]

Glint was literally just wandering around the rings of Saturn looking for dead bodies

[muted hemlock]

Who

A ghost

[green cobalt]

star wars style kamikaze at light speed into a ship

[ember storm]

Drifter’s ghost shot itself clean through someone’s head and killed them

[chrome fog]

Some have flown all the way to the outer reaches of the Solar System;
Ghosts can go fast enough to go through someone’s skull

[muted hemlock]

Wow okay then

[green cobalt]

holy shit

[chrome fog]

Crow’s Ghost

[muted hemlock]

So at least 20 miles an hour

[muted hemlock]

I’m sorry what

Drifters ghost killed itself?!?!

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/heaven-or-hell

[chrome fog]

It went through someone’s skull

[muted hemlock]

And can ghosts have two guardians? Or can guardians have two ghosts?

[muted hemlock]

Wow drifter is really living life to the fullest

If he dies he’s gone gone

[chrome fog]

No, there’s nothing that supports this fully

[ember storm]

it’s alive

[muted hemlock]

WELL I WANT TO MEET IT

[ember storm]

you can’t

they’re mute

[chrome fog]

His ghost is still alive; it’s in orbit like it usually is and also is mute due to modifications they made to it so it could channel Stasis

[muted hemlock]

And why isn’t crow on the map

[ember storm]

he is

[muted hemlock]

Is he a character I can talk to

[ember storm]

in the helm

[muted hemlock]

Where

[chrome fog]

HELM

[muted hemlock]

OH THE HELM

[ember storm]

he’s not a proper vendor

[muted hemlock]

I never go there

[ember storm]

just do the activities he’s in

anyway

[chrome fog]

you should that’s where all the seasonal stuff is

[ember storm]

~~ The body of an armored man lay sprawled over the smoldering open-air cockpit, his helmet punctured by a small hole about the size of... the drone.~~

[muted hemlock]

I know

[ember storm]

shit that’s not how it works

[muted hemlock]

Wait what

[chrome fog]

Waltz

[muted hemlock]

Well ghosts are like vision

[ember storm]

shut up I’m on mobile

[chrome fog]

It’s greater than symbols

[muted hemlock]

They can go through stuff

[ember storm]

they can’t

the ghost just went really fast

[chrome fog]

They can’t phase through things

[ember storm]

and punched a hole through the person

[muted hemlock]

So could they go inside a persons head and materialize?

[muted hemlock]

WAIT WHAT

[ember storm]

no

[muted hemlock]

I THOUGHT THEY COULD

[green cobalt]

no but there's this silly instance where a guy can let his ghost take over and i guess use his body

[muted hemlock]

IVE SEEN THEM DO JT BEFORE

[chrome fog]

Eeeh potentially; drifter’s ghost shot through a man’s skull

[chrome fog]

What the hell do you mean

[muted hemlock]

Like for public events

[chrome fog]

If you’re talking about clipping that’s not

[ember storm]

they have a little ability where they can turn into a frequency of light where their guardian is and effectively sit inside their head

[chrome fog]

What?

[muted hemlock]

They’ll go inside the big bomb lookin thing

[ember storm]

they can’t do anything else

[chrome fog]

What th

[ember storm]

the warsat?

[muted hemlock]

?

[ember storm]

the ghost is just floating outside

scanning it

[chrome fog]

They’re floating around the Warsat

[ember storm]

it doesn’t go anywhere

[muted hemlock]

THE BIG BLACK DECOHEDRON

[green cobalt]

so the warsat

[ember storm]

yeah the ghost is just floating around

scanning

[muted hemlock]

I SWEAR IVE SEEN THEM DO IT

[weary breach]

Warsat incoming

[ember storm]

it doesn’t go anywhere

[muted hemlock]

DANG MANDELA EFFECT

[green cobalt]

no the ghost stays around

outside

[chrome fog]

You mean the pyramid weapon thing? They just went back into your backpack

[ember storm]

that’s not the mandela effect

[muted hemlock]

Frick I jumped universes again

[green cobalt]

ghosts aren't brought out during the pyramid escort thingy

[muted hemlock]

In my universe they could

[chrome fog]

No ya didnt ya dingbat

[muted hemlock]

Have before

And I’ll do it again

[chrome fog]

Also I’m feeling a big amount of deja vu

But that might be how much we have to discuss ghosts to people that come in only to argue

(Not you DJ)

[ember storm]

well with the amount of people who got confused by the imbaru engine it doesn’t surprise me

lots are bound to not be keen on paying attention

[muted hemlock]

I JUST WATCHED IT HAPPEN

[ember storm]

yknow nexius didn’t know how the fundamental elements worked?

[muted hemlock]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6jmNcFYhqgk

[ember storm]

had to explain to them that they’re not always light like, 3 months ago

[chrome fog]

Warsat

And again, floating about it

Or clipping

Which is again not

@ember storm do you know what entry is Drifter stranded on Europa

[muted hemlock]

????

[chrome fog]

Models clipping

Into each other

[green cobalt]

clipping, the animation is just your ghost going the direction you're facing

[chrome fog]

Nice

[green cobalt]

but they're so close the model goes through the warsat (the ghost does not go into the warsat)

[ember storm]

hey nexius

[green cobalt]

hey

[ember storm]

I was just making fun of you

[green cobalt]

awesome

[chrome fog]

Waaaaltz

[muted hemlock]

Bruh…

[ember storm]

yeah

[chrome fog]

The entry where Drifter and his ghost bootstrap a bunch of ghost parts to get Stasis

[ember storm]

what about it

[chrome fog]

It’s not on his Ishtar page

And I don’t remember where it is

[ember storm]

so what

[chrome fog]

Waltz

Can you find it for me please

[ember storm]

what’s in it for me

[chrome fog]

You get to make fun of me for not memorizing where lore entries are

And also maybe being blind if it is on Drifter’s page

[ember storm]

not good enough

[chrome fog]

Meanie

[ember storm]

anyway it’s the outlawed reaper bond

byebye nerds

[chrome fog]

Fuck

[outer dragon]

She still gets tribute for overt acts of war

[chrome fog]

Anyways his ghost is still alive
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/outlawed-reaper-bond

[chrome fog]

That’s Xivu not Sav, which was what the person was asking about

Where Saint beats the living shit out of her

[green cobalt]

ok but enemies randomly harnessing light and dark energy to make their weapons shoot them is just a gameplay decision despite those elements not being restricted purely to those who wield them, you cannot change my mind

[outer dragon]

Oh

My b

[chrome fog]

U Good homie

[jagged badge]

What

[outer dragon]

Fundamental elements =/= Light
The weapons we use that harnes the elements are not paracausal and neither are the weapons the enemies use

[green cobalt]

[jagged badge]

Well, some weapons we use that harness the elements do use paracausal shit

[chrome fog]

Combustion happens naturally in nature, we just light a match, but with magic terms

[outer dragon]

Well yes, they are exotics though

[chrome fog]

That’s Paracausality

[ember storm]

I had to explain to nexius a few months ago that arc, solar, and void aren’t always light

[green cobalt]

i just beat you in a made up argument in my head so i'm right 💅

[ember storm]

and that enemies using these elements isn’t “gameplay stuff”

they obviously took it super well

[green cobalt]

[outer dragon]

@green cobalt a goober

[green cobalt]

ok but then if solar is just fire and arc is just electricity, what's void? or is solar not fire and arc not electricity

if you want me to shut the fuck up just say it, it's chill

[chrome fog]

I almost took the bait

Anyways, praying for yellow-pink sand subclass anytime in the future

[ember storm]

I wanted Baja blast waterbending

strand is cool but it’s not exactly 1:1 with my expectations so it’s bad

[green cobalt]

no i'm being fr

[chrome fog]

Uuuuhhh Lettuce’s analysis in the pins is a good explanation, summary is the three encompass important interactions in physics

[green cobalt]

oh, i'll check that out thanks

[chrome fog]

Solar is harnessing the energy of subatomic bonds, Arc is harnessing the energy of molecular bonds (big clumps of atoms not the particles that make up atoms, they’re different and so are Solar and Arc), and Void is harnessing wells of potential energy and creating vacuums in space - the ones utilized by the household appliance; on the ordinary usage they move air particles around, on the comic level it is gravity

I’m thinking that these are three of the four fundamental forces, but I’m forgetting what the fourth one is

Ok, Solar encompasses Weak Nuclear forces, I think Arc is Strong Nuclear forces, avoid is Gravity, and then electromagnetism is left, but it’s already being used across the spectrum of Paracausality

[light stratus]

Guys it's Savarhūn

[trim grotto]

Savathûn, yes. It's been there since the start of the season.

[light stratus]

I just noticed that

[wheat flower]

I love this last seasonal lore entry

saint basically just kills sava like 500 times

[chrome fog]

Don’t mess around in his hubby’s body and you too can avoid a visit from the Saint

[queen walrus]

I just noticed that Savathun and The Haribinger from Halo:infinite have the same VA

[jagged badge]

Oh huh

[chrome fog]

It would be very funny if Durandal makes an appearance in the new Marathon and it’s once again Savathun

[dim minnow]

something just crossed my mind

Xol is able to speak to us easily without using someone else as a proxy and without tiring himself out and Ahsa is technically the same species as him just uncorrupted

so why did we have to go through all of those extra hoops just to have Ahsa give us the Witness' origins and how to follow it?

[ornate grotto]

It's probably the corruption giving them enough power to do all that

Or the boring answer of seasonal progression

[dim minnow]

that is what I suspect

the former that is

[fiery copper]

I thought they WERE the same species, but over the (probably) millions of years of deepness and shit, the worm gods and the leviathans grew apart into separate species?

[dim minnow]

think of it like Krill vs Hive

[fiery copper]

Kinda?

[jagged badge]

In fairness, the Ahsa - worm god situation might be much more distinct

[fiery copper]

imo, the writers' intent was divergent evolution

[jagged badge]

You can see a visual progression from, say, Sathona to Savathûn. However Ahsa barely resembles Xol

[fiery copper]

Like uhhhhh

irl, all land creatures came from that one piece of shit fish who crawled out of the water and started the domino effect that led to capitalism

The OG leviathans are that bitchass fish

In current day, neither Ahsa nor the Worm Gods are the same species as the fish.

[dim minnow]

true, I have seen what Ahsa's full body looks like

[fiery copper]

Ahsa is "closer" visually to the OG, but the three are distinct species. Leviathan, OG, Worm.

That's how I view it at least, and I can't think of anything that contradicts it

[fiery copper]

Huh

[dim minnow]

still kind of odd how she better resembles normal Hive worms than a Worm God does

[fiery copper]

She doesn't look like a worm GOD

YES

[ornate grotto]

Yeah i was going to say it looks like a normal worm

[fiery copper]

She looks like just a Big Little Worm

[ornate grotto]

Makes you wonder just how really powerful the hive gods are for them to look so different compared to Ahsa

[dim minnow]

this was done by some people who took various screenshots of Ahsa when she swims by you in GotD and stitched them together

[ember storm]

well if the WQ cutscene is anything to go by they all look basically the same

but I think Yul is said to have wings

so

[fiery copper]

Part of this that I couldn't think of how to bring up is that I think the deep accelerated the evolution of the worm gods, speeding them towards some kind of idk, final shape or something

[ember storm]

more like a mutation

again, gaining darkness isn’t natural in any way

it wouldn’t be evolution

[fiery copper]

Yes

Clearly you never played pokemon, dusk stones are naturally occurring

Smh never evolved your murkrow or misdreavus

[ember storm]

I prefer the hidden ghost type eeveelution with the unique brick stone

[chrome fog]

Huh, you know what it somewhat rectified the two different visuals of the Titan Leviathan back before Arrivals; in the GotD dungeon she’s very very long like those serpentine shapes that popped above the surface and were visible from the platform, as well as the vaguely Hive worm silhouette they had go by lost sector windows

[fiery copper]

If you evolve it with a kidney stone you get Pissedon

[ember storm]

you made it even worse somehow

[fiery copper]

[ember storm]

honestly don't think they need to make any more eevees

[fiery copper]

Yeah

We need a physical type mon though

With the same gimmick

All the eevee types are ones that did special damage before gen 3

Except fairy but like that would have been a special type too

[dim minnow]

erm...

lore?

[fiery copper]

Oh right

So one thousand years ago, there was this guy named AZ. He would later be come to known as the first ever "pokemon trainer" but was really more like just a human with a pokemon friend. His friend died, and so obviously he took the logical course of action and built a superweapon that killed 1,000 humans and 1,000 pokemon to try and resurrect his pokepal. It didn't work. 1000 years later, Team Flare is trying to recreate the Ultimate Weapon in order to be really misogynistic and genocidal

There's some lore

[meager belfry]

[haughty horizon]

Were the ahamkara good or bad

[ember storm]

very very bad

the decision to hunt something to extinction doesn't come lightly

[haughty horizon]

So riven was a bad girl

[dim minnow]

she started alright since she was raised by Mara, but eventually Mara had to set up the Wish Wall just so Riven wouldn't screw with her wishes

[ember storm]

one ahamkara hypnotized a big group of awoken and had them all walk off of a cliff

[dim minnow]

I think his name was Azirim

[ember storm]

another ate the first hunter vanguard

then there was the whole venus incident

[desert tree]

quick question: did we ever deal with the Cabal leader that had the huge shield?

hang on ill see if I can find a pic

[trim grotto]

...I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you're asking about Umun'Arath

If I am right I demand a cup of tea

[desert tree]

this guy

I don't know his name but he looks dope

oh wait she has tusks

she looks dope

[trim grotto]

give me my tea, i'm amazing at guessing

[sacred lantern]

Someone needs a cuppa tea

[trim grotto]

that's Umun'Arath

[desert tree]

pronounded oomoon A-wrath?

Im assuming?

[trim grotto]

As the chattering reached a fevered pitch, Caiatl made a decision. With the lightning-quick reflexes Umun had taught her, she unsheathed the ceremonial sword at her side and ran it through Umun's middle.

Umun laughed.

[You are war, and I conjure you with war and blood.]

She laughed and laughed and laughed until her mouth began to ooze. Until Caiatl, disgusted, pushed her off the sword with her foot. The body tumbled back onto the green blaze.

[A gift for my favorite sister.]

As the fire consumed the corpse, a gargantuan portal opened in the sky.```

Umun'Arath became influenced by the Hive, specifically Savathûn, and began a Hive ritual in the centre of Torobatl. Caiatl slew her, but this finished the ritual, and summoned Xivu Arath herself to Torobatl, which destroyed their world.

[chrome fog]

I don't like the phrasing for this, but yes that's correct. She took a deal with Savathun to put the Dreaming City under a curse which looped the same three weeks, which she accomplished by long-play baiting Uldren into killing Cayde-6 and getting us to chase her down and hunt her with such a desire to kill her it would allow her to grant Savathun's wish

[desert tree]

ooooooh so she started the Hive invasion of Torabatl

interesting

[chrome fog]

On accident/under the influence

She got remotely Susiris'd

If that makes sense

[desert tree]

kinda wish we got/get to fight her tho, she looks dope af

[chrome fog]

She really does

[desert tree]

susi-what now?

[chrome fog]

When Sav was Osiris she was inhabiting his body the entire time

An Imposter, one might say

[desert tree]

aaaaaaah gotcha

[chrome fog]

Also man, if we go Umun'Arath as a nightmare that would've been cool, but I don't think Bungie had enough faith the playerbase had read up on Cabal lore that well nor did they have a design set in stone for her

slash they thought it was neat but were wary of trying to put in stuff they thought would be neat but not fully developing the idea to a point they were confident in(this happened with Deepsight, during the period leading up to Witch Queen's release and afterwards they said it was a step towards the kind of subclass they wanted but they didn't have a solid enough idea for Witch Queen's release and decided just to keep deepsight in as somewhat of a footnote of what they were thinking of for subclass ideas)

[ember storm]

Osusris is better

[desert tree]

new question: what is the story behind Ada-1 and the Black armory?

[real ingot]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-the-black-armory-papers

Pretty sure this has plenty

[trim grotto]

That's the primary source, yeah

Most other information is post-City Age
Assuming you refer to modern day as post-City Age, that is

[lucid quest]

i just watched a destiny iceberg video and now i feel like researching “i saw what happened” so if anyone has anything to help lmk

perhaps something to do with the reverie dawn set since that’s a trigger for the dialogue?

[trim grotto]

I'm not sure what you're referring to off the top of my head. Do you have more context?

[lucid quest]

in one of the lost sectors, if you wear a full set of reverie dawn armor, there’s weird whispers that say “i saw what happened”

[trim grotto]

That's a little thing I like to call auditory pareidolia, or apophenia

People have been saying they hear words in the whispers for years, but never have any been verified

[real ingot]

I hear the Taken whisper "toodles"

[lucid quest]

https://youtu.be/8yMwTwcf-rA?si=ltwzUAdydgVCmA2Y

start at 1: 11 :38

[trim grotto]

Generic Darkness whispers. As I said, auditory pareidolia.

We've had those for many years and they're applying incorrect cause

[lucid quest]

then why would it only trigger using specifically reverie dawn set?

[trim grotto]

It doesn't

[lucid quest]

oh

[trim grotto]

The reason it happens in a Lost Sector is because of Nightmares

Proximity brings whispers

Simple as that

[lucid quest]

oh

[real ingot]

Only time Whispers have had dialogue created from wearing something specific is Nezarec I believe

[chrome fog]

And even then it’s very audible dialogue

[dim minnow]

I bet this one doesn't even mention the secret sweeperbot on Mars

[dim minnow]

I recall when they turned Lost Sector bosses into wanted enemies because of Forsaken

it was an underappreciated way of incorporating the Prison break at the start into the rest of the game

then they turned them into Nightmares and even had nightmares floating around the sectors for Shadowkeep

[ornate grotto]

Does that video mention that amazing pre destiny 1 video with the exo corpse

Forgot the name of it but it was named after a sword or something

[dim minnow]

you mean !lettinggo?

[ornate grotto]

That exact one yup

[dim minnow]

that was apparently debunked as something fanmade

but I wouldn't be surprised if !lettingo is mentioned

[ornate grotto]

Oh i know it's just insane how eerily similar it is to clovis bray that we currently have

[rich veldt]

you really love talking about that sweeper bot

[dim minnow]

I WAS THE ONE WHO DISCOVERED IT DAMMIT

[cyan monolith]

Yes

If you wear nezarecs sin or use his glaive on neptune youll hear bbg talk properly

[chrome fog]

You always could hear him, it's just that the identifier at the top read "Nezarec" instead of "Unknown Whispers" or something to that effect

[oak sable]

Lore Question:

Do average enemies have the knowledge of what the ghosts do? For example would a vex minotaur known to shoot a ghost after killing a guardian to ensure the death was permanent? For example Uldren knew to kill Cayde’s ghost so he couldn’t rez but does every enemy type/variation know this?

[real ingot]

Not sure of Vex but it's likely they're aware

Hive, Fallen and Cabal are definitely aware

Hive as seen with Savathun use them

Fallen are known for having Risen assassins

Cabal have tech dedicated to suppressing it

[fresh zephyr]

What do y’all think next season is gonna be about

[oak sable]

Ty!!

[jagged badge]

Honestly I have no clue. There aren’t any hints to it we could speculate from

Before this year we’ve known the titles for Defiance and Deep before they came out, and the Titan tease from the Winterbite quest. Then we had the Savathûn tease from the end of Deep

Now we don’t have any indication really for next season’s theme

[real ingot]

Keep in mind we don't have everything from this season yet

[worldly river]

I'm leaning towards something involving Eramis

We haven't fought Fallen at all this year outside I think one of the permutations of Deep Dives, and those were Wrathborn

And next year doesn't seem to imply any Fallen focus in the Episodes, but I feel like Eramis is a significant plot thread whose allegiance to the Witness is something that needs to be resolved before we fight it

But the talk about and Heirloom that Mara is familiar with makes me think we'll be dealing with her again, even though we already got a season with Mara this year

We had Mithrax, Mara, and Devrim in Defiance and Caitl and Osiris in LF, Drifter, Sloane, maybe Saint in Deep, Eris in Witch, that leaves... Ana and/or Elsie, maybe? Elsie would fit if we're fighting Eramis, bonus thematic timing with the Stasis rework next season

[smoky rose]

Dreaming city imo

The last card is the wish

Eris wondering if she’d have to wish again

[smoky rose]

In Celtic crosses (such as Eris drew on her table) this makes it the outcome

[worldly river]

Yeah Dreaming City seems very likely

but I also can't help but feel that Bungie's gonna throw us a curveball

They usually do in the finale seasons, the premise twists in Arrivals and Lost were both pretty wild to start with, and I don't think anyone predicted Seraph

[worldly river]

Imagine if the last season is like, us and Eramis both trying to obtain/hatch that Ahamkara egg, us so we can wish to get through the portal and her so she can wish for salvation for her people free from the Witness or smthn

Probably not cuz why would you wish for salvation for your people when the entire universe is gonna get rekt by the Witness anyway

[gentle geyser]

Most likely awoken stuff

Preferably hope it’s something else but it’s probably awoken stuff

[little gorge]

idk about eramis but I'm starting to think that's how we get through the portal

so far the steps we've taken have been increasingly more absurd

communing with a proto worm god > making a deal with savathun > using the sword logic

if this continues then hatching an ahamkara is actually quite a logical next step

[cyan monolith]

Deep had drifter dont forgor man

This season has some drifter

Make all seasons drifteerrr

[ember storm]

flirting
harassment

[little gorge]

honestly watch as they pull a funny and make it an ana/clovis season again

not that I'd complain

i want to hear clovis' take on all this

[weary breach]

we should get rid of clovis

[flint ridge]

we should get rid of cayde

permanently

[weary breach]

idunno, he's kinda funny

[little gorge]

we should get rid of the guardian

[chrome fog]

We punt him in the head and he has to deal with chronic headaches

[little gorge]

ok that's a legitimately interesting question

does the big clovis head have humanisms

well ig he doesn't need them because he's an ai and not the real clovis

[lucid quest]

it is

[obtuse ferry]

since some of destiny is on earth, does destiny have finland?

and if so, can I kill finland in game like lore wise

[empty fern]

Finland is probably already dead

[rich veldt]

australia is still thriving iirc

[obtuse ferry]

we must stop this

[real ingot]

Australia and thriving aren't things that go together

[lucid quest]

pretty sure the only thing that isn't dead is the last city, everything else was destroyed in the collapse

except maybe antarctica

no clue on that front

actually i wonder if antarctica is fucked or not

[ember storm]

human settlements exist outside the city

the city is officially “The Last Safe City of Humanity”

as in it’s the only place protected by giant walls and constantly filled with guardians

sure you could be living out in a hut in Europe somewhere but one fallen crew would just wipe you off the map completely

[severe harness]

its just me or this two look too similar?

[smoky rose]

I mean ignoring the hands, sure

[chrome fog]

London already got razed to the ground and we regularly explore Russia and some European region

[obtuse ferry]

but that isn't finland

[chrome fog]

Finland is adjacent to Europe; also fukcin. Real world countries are known and exist in Destiny, why would Finland be an exception?

[obtuse ferry]

because I want to know if I could destroy finland

in game of course

[chrome fog]

Not in-game unless the EDZ is specifically a Finland town

[obtuse ferry]

the edz is swiss

it is in switzerland

[rich veldt]

i mean in d2 they do. better then irradiated or absolutely destroyed

[chrome fog]

Point is: no, unless the Finnish had some secret weapon

In which case, exotic mission/season location

[gentle geyser]

I come into chat expecting lore about gods and robots and shit today and all I see is Finland

[chrome fog]

I could go off about Bionicle if you’d like

[dim minnow]

A good portion of Australia got flooded over

Hawkesbury became the Hawkesbury Sea

[lucid quest]

basically all of the important lore regarding gods and robots and shit is explicit and pretty easy to find

however stuff like finland and chile isn’t explicitly stated and is fun to theorize about

[gentle geyser]

No amount of context is going to make this not hilarious as fuck

[lucid quest]

last night (i think?) we were discussing the location of the last city and how it's supposed to be above chile

like andes mountains area

finland came out of fuckin nowhere ngl

idek where the idea of "can i destroy finland in destiny 2?" came from

[chrome fog]

Bozo just being random (that's literally their name in-sever)

[grizzled zinc]

We stay winning

[wheat latch]

Where is the last city? I forgor but an also curious why it is in said location

[trim grotto]

Near/in the Andes, in South America.

[chrome fog]

Somewhere in South American within the area of Chile; a variety of snake which can only be found in the region is mentioned in a lore entry near the Last City, the Panama Canal is now the Panama Ravine or something of the sort, as well as the Seraph orbit view but that one is less concrete as orbital views tend to be not 1-to-1 to a real globe

[trim grotto]

As for why...

Hold your horses

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wocCs25nbFuIIhJhtnvSYDTOyDOsl8dMXFVU3GTL_bU/edit?usp=drivesdk

[wheat latch]

That's cool, for some reason I thought it was in Russia lmao

[trim grotto]

Take a gander at this document for
All of the sauce

[wheat latch]

Woah

[neat willow]

Does anyone have an idea of who the speaker for the le monarque lore blip is?

I just read it and thought it was interesting

[trim grotto]

Ahh, yes. One moment.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-the-black-armory-papers

It's set partway through the Black Armory Papers.

[lucid quest]

you might be thinking of the cosmodrome

[wheat latch]

That'd make sense

[pine field]

is it true that we go back to the OG tower next year?

just getting back into D2

[trim grotto]

Not in the way you think

Watch some trailers for Final Shape

[pine field]

will do, thank you.

[neat willow]

So ada has a daughter?

[trim grotto]

Ada is the daughter.

[neat willow]

Ohhhhhh ok

I see

[trim grotto]

Le Monarque's entry is from the perspective of Henriette Meyrin, with Ada-1.

[neat willow]

And Henriette is not an exo

From what I gather

Ngl contrasting with the lore entries lemons lore becomes even more interesting

[trim grotto]

None of them were, except for Ada herself.

She was mortally wounded and uploaded as a last resort by her mother.

[pine field]

now i'm all choked up after that trailer

[neat willow]

Wtf dude that's sad as shit

[pine field]

a lot of D2 lore is actually super morbid

[trim grotto]

The Black Armory Papers go into detail. It's a touching read.

[neat willow]

I'm partway through

I got to the author saying exos are souless

[pine field]

they orginally wanted to make it an M title, but also knew that would make it harder to market and such.

[trim grotto]

Henriette, yes. She didn't like the idea of them.

[neat willow]

Btw could you dm me some greatest hits of the lore books

[neat willow]

So is Ada or Helgen the forge exo in the papers?

Actually wait

That'll probably get revealed

[empty fern]

Season of the forge part 2 electric boogaloo

[trim grotto]

It wasn't really meant to be a mystery

[neat willow]

I mean in the papers lol

[trim grotto]

So do I

[neat willow]

Oh huh

I guess I lack reading comprehension

I'm assuming it's ada right?

[trim grotto]

After she was wounded, she was uploaded to the body, yes

[neat willow]

Oh wait I'm dumb

I comprendo now

You can't upload a dead person

[trim grotto]

Correctamundo

[neat willow]

Ada didn't actually die they uploaded her right before she would've

Gotcha gotcha gotcha

[empty fern]

Speaking of exos

What happened to all the exo bodies in Clovis Europa spot

[neat willow]

Ngl the black armory papers are fascinating

It's such a different perspective on the destiny world