📚lore-discussion

[real ingot]

Eris losing her eyes

Omar became a worm

He's in Xenophage

During the first D1 expac The Dark Below Crota's brood began to resurrect him which ended in us entering his Throne and the raid happening

[desert tree]

wait, hang on, back up

what do you mean he's in the gun

as in physically? or his story is in the lore tab of the gun

[static bluff]

he's a lil bug in the gun you can see him in the reload animation

[real ingot]

Both!

I think

haven't read Xeno in years

[desert tree]

just read it. he's in the lore tab, talks about how he's a pissy lil worm

but where in the gun is he?

like the stock? barrel? did he get chopped up or cloned and then turned into bullets?

[real ingot]

try reloading it

[real ingot]

No he's fully intact

He's a funny guy

[static bluff]

when reloading you can see a bug inside an orange box thing, at the very bottom right of your screen

that's him

he has a santa hat for the christmas ornament !!!!!

[desert tree]

hang, trying to find heavy ammo

which is suprisingly hard to find

OH

I see him

yea he is just a lil guy

[static bluff]

small, even

[peak coral]

fr

[patent swallow]

did the witness give us the enclave or was it an accident that mars returned

[real ingot]

I believe Savathun was the one that returned it

[patent swallow]

then what about titan

[real ingot]

Titan we aren't entirely sure

Cutscene after RoN implies they reappeared either after the Witness left or when Nezarec died

[patent swallow]

so it could be that the Witness' power got weaker when he entered the traveller?

or maybe it was when we killed the Explicator

[real ingot]

We're unsure

[smoky rose]

Wouldn’t say it’s power changed at all

Just less able to exert control across dimensions

[patent swallow]

thats what i meant

[haughty horizon]

Is our guardian strong lore wise🤓

[trim grotto]

[fast tapir]

huh

I wonder

[tulip knoll]

Yes

We’re confirmed to be one of the only ones strong enough currently to defeat savathun at a moments notice

But compared to the likes of prime ikora and osiris

Eh

[haughty horizon]

Better than ikora

No cap

[empty fern]

Eris one shot savathun and she wasn’t even light

[dim minnow]

she had tithes

[empty fern]

[dull raft]

and what vaguely resembled a golf club.

[dim minnow]

it was the Night Terror sword

[real ingot]

[dim minnow]

pretty sure it wasn't even the first time she used it too

[dim minnow]

what the fuck

why is one of my cats an emote?

[real ingot]

funny

[dim minnow]

in what server is that even an emote?

[real ingot]

emote server

[dim minnow]

and that is?

[real ingot]

an emote server

[dim minnow]

doesn't explain it

like what, is it a servr where people make their own emotes and they can use them in other servers?

[chrome fog]

We’re in the higher echelons of Guardians, as it’s exceedingly difficult for a guardian to master more than one class apparently, if they even master it. The fact we are capable of handling such paracausal abilities fairly quickly does put us high on the power scaling but it’s all superfluous

[tulip knoll]

Us defeating the witness will pretty much solidify us as the most powerful, even tho it’s not technically true. But when it comes to that screw technicalities, so what if I can’t sling a Nova, dawn blade and a chaos reach in 2 thirds of a second like osiris in his prime

(I’m coping profusely at how over scaled osiris and ikora are, and I will never have such power)

[unreal tulip]

Do guardians age?

[real ingot]

No

Though it is a bit loose

[unreal tulip]

Ik this is a bit of an odd question, I'm sure ghost rez heals physical harm when rezzed. But does it heal sickness? Like, if a guardian had cancer, would it cure it on rez, if guardians can even get sick/if they've mentioned it ever.

[earnest wharf]

If they don't, why does Osiris look 80?

Every other guardian was brought back to life in what looks like their prime except him

[rich veldt]

old man coulda been in his prime then

[earnest wharf]

@rich veldt Good point

[trim grotto]

Not so much.
Take Tyra Karn, the founder of the City Cryptarchy, lorekeeper of the Iron Lords. She's of a similar... Age bracket... to Osiris.
Speaking of Osiris's age bracket, Eva Levante describes him as appearing in his fifties.

Saladin isn't exactly a young man either, though he does have more hair.

[trim grotto]

Nothing has ever suggested as such, barring the yet-again unique case of Shin Malphur, who was resurrected as a literal baby. However, his Ghost died within months of this resurrection, and we have no idea what he looks like nowadays.

It's also worth noting that Eris Morn has been Lightless and trapped in the Hellmouth for centuries, and she's still got perfect skin.

[trim grotto]

We've never heard of a Guardian with a preexisting illness. But they can become sick from various sources. Two examples include super-viruses under strict control of the Thanatonauts, and radiation poisoning.

That radiation poisoning occurred whilst walking through a nuclear bomb site.

[jagged badge]

Which is weird when they have a 300 year lifespan, unless they just spend 250 years looking elderly lmao

[jagged badge]

She moisturises 😌

[real ingot]

[lilac coral]

spamton predicted strand (he is suspended)

[trim grotto]

In the Golden Age perhaps
We can't truly say for sure if they do nowadays, with the exception of the Speaker

Have the extended lifespan I mean

[chrome fog]

Not really; we are powerful, but a lot of our success has come through proper teamwork, cooperation with choice allies, and strategically weakening our enemies to the point a small fireteam can effectively kill the major threat. We did it with Crota, Oryx, Savathun, Rhulk, all the big bads. Some sort of crutch helped us kill them, whether that be a twitter argument between one of Crota’s knights and one of Savathun’s or Rhulk’s over confidence in his abilities that he never fought seriously until his wipe mechanic

[slim elk]

Think the straightest fight was the Deep Stone Crypt raid

[sick yew]

Eater of Worlds

Or wdym with "straightest"

[real ingot]

Fairest?

Or most straight up

In terms of one guardian could handle this

[slim elk]

Crashing a space station from orbit with armed nuclear warheads was quite the attempt to kill us.

Then Taniks wasn't finished and went shank

[sick yew]

I mean Spire btw

I am stupid

[real ingot]

See id go with Val Ca’our we’d beat in a straight up fist fight

He was not the threat

[sick yew]

He was just a big dude by all means

[real ingot]

He was smart

But he’s considered weak for a reason

How difficult the fight is not included

Except Skolas

[sick yew]

Because he wasnt a literal god

[real ingot]

The madlad

[sick yew]

There was nothing special to Val Caour
He was simply a big cabal dude

Compare that to idk Vog or Vow bosses

[slim elk]

||Waiting for Taniks to be Savathuns secret weapon with a ghost||

[sick yew]

Id dig it

[jagged badge]

Tbf that was Clovis

[peak coral]

some enemies in d2 just looks like theyll die to a rocket shot

but they dont

for gameplay reasons

biggest example being val caour yeah

[sick yew]

Most things should die from a rocket shot in the game including raid bosses but yes

[ember storm]

calus being the only raid boss to physically deteriorate as the fight goes on

[peak coral]

shoutout to bungie for the detail

but yea no raid boss just wears out after taking damage for now

[ember storm]

that they used once and never again

[peak coral]

yea

:(((((

[empty fern]

Did the servitors brig in that one raid ever start cracking near the end?

[outer dragon]

Do we think the "heirloom" that Savathun mentioned to Immaru will ever make an appearance?

[blazing wasp]

Probably in some degree

It feels too important not to

[little gorge]

isn't savathun talking about how we'll find the way through the portal when we're ready sort of eluding to that?

[smoky rose]

It will

We aren't done with the imbaru engine yet

I expect it to be at the end

[dawn epoch]

huh
so savathun is alive

just chilling

[proven yew]

So, is there an in-universe reason for us continuing the Altars of Summoning? The Tithing to Eris is over, so are we Tithing to something else? Is it target practice or something?

[ember storm]

keeping savathun in check and executing prisoners she wanted to use for later

she can't do anything to stop us so we're dealing with it proactively before it becomes an issue

basically like how we used to clear out the prison of elders, except the queen this time is more funny

[proven yew]

Oh. I see. So it's just emptying out her vaults to take away prisoners/test subjects?

[ember storm]

yes

and we are getting guns and silly hats from it, in savathun's own words

she keeps trying to take shots at us like "ohhh you're killers so good at killing you killer"

as if we didn't literally make her flinch after she tried threatening us earlier

she's in a corner and she knows it

she just never admits it

[chrome fog]

I think she just accepts it now, like “you go bestie, go off on those experiments”

Especially how casually she addresses Eris and how she doesn’t mind us keeping her in check with Immaru in our reach, she may use some of the beauty phrasing from before, but she’s much more cooperative

[timber glade]

That was hilarious

"what are you gonna do, stop me?"
"Yes"
"...fine"

[outer dragon]

It is still giving her data

She is learning how Guardians use the Light and I wouldn't be surprised if we had the Hive Lightbearers come up with new supers

[outer dragon]

How different is the second part of the Imbaru engine?

[timber glade]

Surprisingly

Good puzzle though

The aesthetics are a lot like the caves in savvy's throne world

[outer dragon]

I haven't run it yet

I need to

[vapid nebula]

ok im just stupid.
why was it so important to cripple xivu? I thought we were supposed to find savathun to help us get to the travelor but shes just dead again so now what?

[static bluff]

savathun is alive

defeating xivu is something savathun wanted us to do (don't remember why), so she offered to show us how to follow the witness in exchange for us dealing with xivu arath

we did, savathun more or less withheld the answer for now and was allowed to leave by having immaru stay with us

so that if she tries something we kill immaru and then her, supposedly

[jagged badge]

Xivu is one of our biggest threats, for one

But also, the point of this season was that whilst our initial plan was to resurrect Savathûn and have her tell us how to get through the portal to stop the Witness, Immaru told us that Savathûn would only be returned if we defeat Xivu for her

Eris changed the plan when she had Immaru resurrect Savathûn so that she could kill Savathûn herself, however

However, Eris changing the plan is likely the only way we could have actually done anything meaningful against Xivu

[outer dragon]

Yeah the cutscene didn't do a great job showing it but Immaru rezed Savathun after the cutscene ended and then left Immaru in the custody of Eris

[jagged badge]

We were still outmatched by Xivu’s strength and the fact that she would continue to gain strength when we fight her

And even if we had killed her, she would simply return to her Throne and come back

Now she has no Throne, so we can leave her reeling whilst we deal with the Witness and then find out how to deal with her afterwards

[outer dragon]

She still gains power from overt acts of war. She just is mortal now and lost her best tool, the logistical supremacy of the Black Terrace (her throne world)

She also lost a lot of power when retreating and may have to deal with challenges from Ascendant Hive in her brood

Plus, her throne world wasn't destroyed. So someone could possibly usurp it and the title of Hive God of War

[tawdry mauve]

wait what?

i must have missed this lol

did this happen in the cutscene??

[outer dragon]

Its in a lore tab

[tawdry mauve]

...

you fucking with me?

[outer dragon]

And in dialogs from Spire/Alters

[tawdry mauve]

they would put that shit in a lore tab?

[outer dragon]

Yeah

[tawdry mauve]

💀

what a stupid decision

which lore tab is it?

[outer dragon]

Give me a sec

[tawdry mauve]

"give me a sec"

[real ingot]

Rites of Passage page 7

which you get for doing sunder

[jagged badge]

I mean, it’s probably budgetary or something

Like, for one, they’d need to get all of their voice actors for the Guardian in to record the line they have

[outer dragon]

I'm at work nerd

I do what i can but yeah @real ingot is right

[chrome fog]

Doesn’t Eris shout for Immaru to Rez her?

[real ingot]

The bit after

[outer dragon]

After Eris does the whole bit and the cutscene ends. Savathun is rezed again

[chrome fog]

Oh, were they asking about that? I thought your original message was about how Sav gets rezzed only for Eris to kill her for the power up

[outer dragon]

Yeah

Fug

Was trying to upload screenshots from reddit where someone typed it out

1

2

3

4

[ember storm]

yeah all of 2

(I’m just joking I know the other languages have them)

still weird to think there’s not 6 vas anymore tho

[raven glen]

How many bosses has the guardian canonically solod or killed

Named mini bosses too

[slim elk]

https://tenor.com/view/you-dont-wanna-know-george-zax-jk-simmons-goliath-s4ep4-gif-23201964

[dim minnow]

As far as I know, there is only one boss that is canonically soloed

Enkarr the Anointed

[slim elk]

"Savathun"

[dim minnow]

Since that is the only mission in the game that forces you into solo

Everything else gives you the option to come in with backup

[slim elk]

Gameplay-story segregration

[dim minnow]

I was semi-joking

[slim elk]

If you recall, Red War had Player Guardian be only one with Light

Yet can run those missions with mutiple players

[faint saffron]

me after grinding trials of osiris:

[marble sierra]

Is there a possibility that osiris will get sagira back in final shape?

[real ingot]

Sagira is dead dead

[idle raptor]

we have her corpse

we handed it back to Osiris like "hey old man, here's the most important person of your life and their cracked fucking shell"

[trim grotto]

Anything's possible in Destiny. But there's no precedent for it, no.

(And to any lurkers reading, no, Sagira wasn't actually dead in Curse of Osiris)

[jagged badge]

I mean, in real life, people generally like having the bodies of lost loved ones to bury or whatever, because it’s sort of like closure

[ebon wharf]

Idk if this question would fit in lore but is there any measurement of a guardians lite physical strength? Only reason I ask is the cutscene at the beginning of lightfall got me thinking "damn, how strong someone gotta be to hold onto a ship going through hyperspace?

[jagged badge]

Well, Wei Ning apparently punched a mountain and it “moved”

[ebon wharf]

Safe to assume that was a titan?

[jagged badge]

Yeah she was lmao

[peak coral]

wait what

is that d1 or d2

nvm found

d2

[ember storm]

incredible

you'd never see something like that happen in questions

[peak coral]

stupid for me to actually ask here first

☠️

figured i could just google "how to beat enkaar" and see

[dry spear]

How to beat Ektar the Taken Chicken Wing

[trim grotto]

Anyone got any questions they'd think would fit into an FAQ? I'm looking for fresh additions to the Lore FAQ.

[tawdry mauve]

difference between guardian and lightbearer

[echo fjord]

one is from the city the other is hive

:3

[jagged badge]

Guardians are still Lightbearers

[echo fjord]

it was satire

[jagged badge]

Well, except Hawthorne. And maybe Eris and Osiris

[echo fjord]

tbf they don't "bear" the light anymore

so they probably dont fit into the title

[jagged badge]

I mean whether they still count as Guardians

Hawthorne is counted as an honorary Guardian iirc. But she isn’t and has never been a Lightbearer

So the question is are Eris and Osiris still Guardians too

[echo fjord]

iirc the video before the 2022 showcase Eva said that the people of the city gave the guardians the name guardians

[static bluff]

based on my own understanding a lightbearer is anyone that wields the light and that's all it takes. a guardian is (traditionally) a lightbearer that serves the interests of the vanguard and the last city

sort of the traveler's too but maybe sort of not?

[rich veldt]

imo guardian in this context is anyone who guards the city, making the cabal, eliksni and normal human guards around guardians

[static bluff]

guardians go on the offensive too, that's why I didn't want to stick to "guardians obviously guard"

hawthorne was named guardian by zavala in a red war operation

meanwhile the regular guards are more like the humans and cabal you see on the tower, they just stay there

guardians actively face threats either through offense or defense in response to an attack, or through intelligence

(sourceless misinformation)

[versed orbit]

Sticking out your gyatt for the rizzler

[jagged badge]

[echo fjord]

bro is on something

[jagged badge]

Inspired by the current gen chat discussion, perhaps something about Eris’ sight?

‘Cause ngl I’m a little confused

[outer dragon]

Not a Guardians are Lightbearers and not all Lightbearers are Guardians

Germaine is a prime example of this

So is Hawthorne

[chrome fog]

Why you gotta use Drifter’s government like that

[ember storm]

his name is sad rat man who lives in the basement

[outer dragon]

Because I like poking the bear

[chrome fog]

[outer dragon]

What are the other names that he went by?
Wu Ming

Eli

I think the Guardian could take Germaine in a straight up fight. Of course if he summons Primevals then it's gonna be an uphill fight but given the Guardian has killed gods I still think they would win

[static bluff]

dredgen hope too I think

[flint swan]

Heya I’m new here but have been playing since D1, I’m getting a lil interested in the lore tbh, and was wondering where I should start? And also how to get more of the lore books in game

[jagged badge]

Ishtar Collective is the best site to read lore

[flint swan]

Thanks thanks, now is this stuff available in game? Or exclusively online, and should I start from the books release date?

I’m trying to be as immersed as possible lol😭

I found the timeline page

[outer dragon]

The only stuff NOT on ishtar-collective is brand new stuff.
A good way to start is to search some characters and read the general breakdown for them. You can click on links in the breakdowns for more detail

[flint swan]

OOOOO

so research specifics I’m into?!

[outer dragon]

Yeah if you are into the Drifter, searching Drifter and selecting the category "Drifter" will bring up a breakdown of his story with links

Almost every named character has a catatory page like that

[flint swan]

Dang this is a lot

[outer dragon]

Yeah it is a lot of info

[jagged badge]

Ishtar doesn’t have Collector’s Edition lore books either

[outer dragon]

Yeah there is some other stuff

[flint swan]

Sososo

Okay is it just the page after you click on category?

Is this all I’m supposed to read? Not that that’s bad

[outer dragon]

So that breakdown is a cliffnotes of their story.

You can click on the numbers in the breakdown to get to the source of the information and get more detail

[flint swan]

Thank you so much😭

[chrome fog]

Read only to the point you’re no longer interested, so long as you get the gist and are enjoying it you should be fine

For any in-game voice lines during activity and whatnot, Destiny Lore Vault on YouTube has been documenting as much as they can

Oh! We also have listing of lore resources

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[ember storm]

destinypedia

[chrome fog]

Caution with PreviouslyOn and Destinypedia, the first hasnt update in a while but still has summary for each content pack, and the second one falls into the same pitfalls many wikis fall into

They misheard the name of a character, and now we have Eramis

[flint swan]

I think I’ll use what I’ve got so far, don’t want to overwhelm myself, but just getting the timeline down along with what I’m curious for. I’ve still yet to buy the dlcs, as I’ve only recently started playing again

[trim grotto]

That's actually already in there! It's an interesting one, though.
In Destiny, you've got Risen, Lightbearers, and Guardians.

Lightbearers are, of course, anyone who controls the Light. This now extends to the Lucent Hive as well as Guardians.

Risen are anyone who was resurrected by Ghosts. This extends to the now-Lightless such as Eris Morn.

Guardians, however, are specifically Last City aligned protectors of the Last City/Humanity/Traveler/Solar System. Generally speaking they're all Lightbearers, but there are exceptions.

Eris Morn still considers herself a Hunter and Guardian, but she has no Light, and hasn't for centuries.
Drifter would not be considered a Guardian, as he is an independant party. He's a Lightbearer/Risen, but not a Guardian. (In recent days you could argue otherwise, but as he was originally presented, this was the case.)

There were also moments in the Red War, and Guardian Games, where regular humans were called or calling themselves Guardians, such as Hawthorne. This is generally considered more "unofficial", however.

[analog torrent]

Dark Ages was all Risen running around

[outer dragon]

I would not consider Hawthorne's being called a Guardian unofficial.

[trim grotto]

It depends on how far you want to stretch the definition. Are the FoTC Guardians? Was Amanda a Guardian? The Takanomi Rangers?
There are arguments for each of these, but it's not a clear cut line.

[outer dragon]

After the Red War, anyone willing to defend the Last City and fight the forces arrayed against us is a Guardian IMO

Hawthorne and her people proved that you don't need the Light to want to protect the City.

[trim grotto]

True enough. By that definition, Guardians are not explicitly (though colloquially implicitly) Lightbearers, Risen were resurrected by Ghosts but may no longer have it, and Lightbearers still have the Light at current.

Guardians are, as stated previously, specifically defenders of the... Well, the Solar System, at this point.

[outer dragon]

Yes, with the discovery of Neomuna, I would call Cloud Striders, Guardians

[ember storm]

she was allowed to participate in GG

[outer dragon]

As a Titan

[ember storm]

i do not care for hawthorne as a person

but i now demand titans get a poncho

as compensation

[outer dragon]

A poncho class item

[worldly river]

Cal Kestis would be proud

[trim grotto]

That's a good one, actually. I'll jot that down.

[idle raptor]

does drifter still have a ghost?

quite frankly I've never seen him use his light

if he is, what even is he? hunter?

[trim grotto]

Yes he does

And he isn't any class

He's his own beast

[idle raptor]

what a dork

[trim grotto]

His use of Light is usually relegated to lighting his jade coins alight in Solar flame

[ember storm]

yeah centuries of trauma and death would do that to you

[empty fern]

Ah yes

Drifter with the coin subclass

[tawdry mauve]

he should just grow up

fr

[ember storm]

the little girl who died in his arms should’ve thought of that

[tawdry mauve]

she should have just lived

smh

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/drifter-destiny2-ding-tag-flick-gif-16330328

[blazing wasp]

Should've visited withers

[empty fern]

Defeat the wither? What’s he gonna do with a beacon?

[ember storm]

summon herobrine

[tawdry mauve]

holy shit drifter watch out

[jagged badge]

[little gorge]

no idea about eris but osiris is

I'm pretty sure he's been called a guardian after losing sagira

and he's definitely been called a warlock

[trim grotto]

Eris defines herself as a Hunter still.

[tawdry mauve]

to be fair it was nimbus and rohan also calling him a lightbearer as well

because afaik he didnt tell them

probably because he cannot actually cope well with it

[trim grotto]

not easy to lose the person who's been by your side for your entire life of centuries i suppose

[tawdry mauve]

he should just grow up like drifter

fr

[trim grotto]

Drifter's still got his Ghost though

[tawdry mauve]

yeah

he should still grow up

[trim grotto]

Uh, sure? He's kind of had a lot of character progression already.

[tawdry mauve]

whats the name of xivus throne world?

[empty fern]

Does she have that throne world anymore?

[trim grotto]

The Black Terrace, it seems.

[trim grotto]

She does not

[empty fern]

Nice

[tawdry mauve]

cool name

too bad we will probably never see it

💀

[trim grotto]

Likely not. It may already be crumbling.

[ember storm]

honestly glad about that

ingame stuff would never do it justice with the current game rating

[trim grotto]

It was...

fleshy.

[empty fern]

What do you mean fleshy

Mael what did you see

[ember storm]

made of flesh

the throne world was organic

in the worst way

[trim grotto]

I actually cannot elaborate. The entry is still classified.

[ember storm]

simply relay your brainwaves through psionic connection, dummy

[empty fern]

Like scorn flesh or little nightmares 2 flesh

[smoky rose]

As in macro scale skin

Complete with hairs

It contracts when a stiff breeze blows through

It’s super fucked up

Part of one of the sororicide lore pages

[empty fern]

Ewwww

[jagged badge]

Simply log in and copy it down to here manually

[empty fern]

Get that photo text ready

[blazing wasp]

Unclassify it then

[broken zephyr]

was that hive worm god thing under Rhulks arena killed by rhulk or what’s the lore there?

[jagged badge]

She was killed by us

I believe

[broken zephyr]

when?

[chrome fog]

We shut down the machine powered by her, and she supposedly fell into a deep sleep, which can be read as just plainly dying

Good thing too, that machine was essentially a solar system-sized nuke

[ember storm]

she’s the worm mother, Xita

origin of all the little parasites and how Rhulk had his hand in creating the hive

[outer dragon]

It wasn't destroyed
That space could be usurped by a suitably strong entity. We don't exactly know how Eris's actions exactly interacted with the throne world itself. We have an example from Oryx in Mara's of why CAN happen but Eris is not Oryx so its not a 1:1 example

[tawdry mauve]

holy shit warpriest is back

[outer dragon]

Xivu is likely facing challenges from Ascendant Hive in her brood

[chrome fog]

She’s still the Hive War God and earns tribute from any strife, but as of now, she’s reeling from the fact she no longer gets a free revive as well as basically the ghost of her sister abandoning everything the siblings dedicated themselves to for eons

Plus what H said, challenges now that their leader is effectively weakened

[chrome fog]

(Ghost in this instance referring to Lightbearer Sav basically committing heresy to the Sword Logic)

[outer dragon]

She lost ALOT of power retreating

Not like a shit ton but she was significantly weakened by choosing to avoid combat. The loss of the Black Terrace hurts her logistically too since it could be summoned to a place by a sufficient act of strife/war/bloodshed. See what happened at Torobatl. Caital killing Umun’arath while the latter was in the middle of a Hive magic ritual is what gave Xivu the in to bring her forces to bear on Totobatl through the Black Terrace.

[surreal solstice]

🟦🟥Know what to do root of nightmares, final boss🟥🟦

[outer dragon]

;lfg

[candid inlet]

Looking for more players?
Check out #looking-for-group for links to our LFG channels, and further resources including:

• Destiny 2 LFG Discord (Formerly the Destiny 2 PC LFG, now for all platforms)
• D2Checkpoint
• Bungie Fireteam Search
• Reddit's r/Fireteam
• Reddit's r/DestinySherpa

[worldly river]

The paths were paved with teeth iirc

If that gives you a good enough idea

[empty fern]

So like agony

[flint swan]

Wait Eris was a hunter?!

She totally seems like a warlock type tho..:

[outer dragon]

Yes she was a hunter

Arc specialist too. She wears the hunter exotic LUCKY RASPBERRY

[jagged badge]

Should be pointed out she doesn’t in fact wear Lucky Raspberry but does wear something visually similar that could always be a unique ornament like Osiris has a unique Sunbracers ornament

[stable monolith]

Why is Oryx so big compared to Savathun? Are Hive Gods capable to adjust their size?

[remote sky]

so wait wtf are the people of neomuna?? digital.. figures? or are they just like that so they can be safe and shit?? wtf is happening?

[slim elk]

Forced lockdown in cryo and playing in the matrix

[remote sky]

so they exist in a matrix situation?

WITHOUT the battery part

[slim elk]

Yep.
Plugged into the Cloudark and can't be removed by their own will at present

[remote sky]

sounds like some SAO shit

[chrome fog]

Eh

[lost abyss]

That's not a bad idea for an ornament tbh

[chrome fog]

Not really

[slim elk]

There is stuff lurking around that can kill them even in the Cloudark.
They learned that the hard way with Aesop.. and it apparently killing-abducting entire generation of kids

Worth noting:This way before the mandatory lockdown... shows how hardwired Neomuna is

[remote sky]

do we know what?

[slim elk]

Yep. It's even Neomuna propaganda

Can't be too sure if it's fully real
But an entire generation of kids getting offed is bit too big an incident to cover up. So must have happened

Full context:Neomuna's government hides a conspiracy that dates back to Esi that keeps the general public ignorant of the truth about the Veil

[remote sky]

aYe

[slim elk]

We know it's not just Esi because at least one Cloudstrider aided and abetted her

[hollow oar]

@trim grotto @jagged badge important question

Is sanctified mind the vex equivalent of jesus

Yes or no

[void kettle]

The atheon, sanctified mind, and the holy black heart?

[dim minnow]

hmmm

well, it is assumed that the Sol Inherent were made to replace the Black Garden's Heart because we destroyed it

in the case of your question, who is God?

[chrome fog]

I wouldn’t say propaganda is it is to prevent mass hysteria, since y’know, these are supposed to be secured pods in a deeply entombed bunker with their minds plugged into the system. You control media around breaches so you don’t have people being dumb and assuming the worst Just Because The Government “Admits It”

[slim elk]

Not that part
The fact Esi straight ordered a mission to dump Lakshmi on earth and delete any record of their location because they detected Rasputin poking around

[dim minnow]

makes one wonder why Lakshmi didn't know anything

[slim elk]

The big thing is Esi tried to shut down anything leading to something to the Cloudark.. but failed as we see the modern day Neomuna hardwired into it.. and thanks to Esi have literally no idea of what the dangers even are

[dim minnow]

perhaps it was because at that point, she was pretty much a child

[chrome fog]

Maybe because the security of the colony is heavily dependent on the secrecy of their existence, hmmmm? They had consistently repelled Vex incursions until they also had to deal with the Shadow Legion and the Witness’ forces.
Not to mention, you’re a perfect example of what happens when their blunders are made public, someone’ll take their statement and go the whole nine yards

[slim elk]

If thats true, puts Esi in a very bad light of dumping Lakshmi in effectively hell on earth

[dim minnow]

according to Esi, that was the case with Lakshmi

[chrome fog]

Again, secrecy is their defense, how hard is that to understand

[slim elk]

So they dump someone that can lead to their existence on earth?

Instead of just spacing them or doing the black bag?

[chrome fog]

Y’know what? Fuck it, it is a conspiracy, one protect the city of Neomuna and allow a small remnant of Humanity to hide in safety. If that means obscuring the truth behind the system infrastructure and experiments carried out by the founder, fine, fuck it, I don’t give a shit, it’s not fucking mind blowing

[dim minnow]

Her "copy" — that thing, Lakshmi — is still developmentally incomplete. It doesn't understand what happened to Maya. I had it quarantined until we can... Until we... Do something.

[chrome fog]

Isn’t there something about Lakshmi somewhat keeping sentry on the status of Earth?

I feel like there’s something like that

[dim minnow]

Lakshmi probably couldn't even comprehend much of what happened before Chioma kicked her out

[chrome fog]

She wouldn’t even have any real connection to Neomuna unless you were a high ranking Neomuni official, as evidenced by our own lack of this knowledge until Seraph

[dim minnow]

somethign to also note is that Lakshmi was present during a lot of stuff that happened very early Dark Age

[chrome fog]

And that was after reconnecting Rasputin to Soteria, whom herself was quarantined

[slim elk]

Yep, if we track the timeline.. means that Esi went full "isolation" when there was still surviving cities on Earth

Big thing with Lakshmi was her seeing the Burning of London.. which even the modern Fallen shun the artchitect of

[dim minnow]

at that point, London and the Knights of the Mumbai Push were still around

[slim elk]

And thanks to the Cloudstrider involved in the "delete all evidence" mission... thats a mimimum decade after collapse

Probably more

[chrome fog]

Let’s stop entertaining this, it’s not that deep

[slim elk]

(I guess Bungie failed their own timeline maybe?)

[dim minnow]

well the Collapse happened over a few months at most

and a few weeks at least

it seems that the Logs began not long after the Collapse started

[slim elk]

Yep, which the Cloudstrider involved means that humanity actually had surviving cities even a decade after

This is being generous and assuming that Stargazer was only the second Cloudstrider and they got the whole setup within a year of landing on Neptune

Much more likely this has decades plural involved

Paints interesting picture of how organized human survivors may have been before the Fallen hit

[dim minnow]

there's probably no one living who would know

not even any Lightbearers

[slim elk]

Thats a fail. Even have at least two non-Lightbearers sitting in the City with that knowledge right now

[dim minnow]

even with the Ghosts appearing at the end of the Collapse, it must have taken quite a bit of time for them to start finding their guardians

[dim minnow]

who?

Drifter?

[slim elk]

Ada-1 and the achilles Fallen, let me pull up his name

[dim minnow]

Saladin?

oh yeah those guys

ok, not Achilles

actually he now goes by Namrask

[slim elk]

Namrask, and he would probably know.. given he razed London

[dim minnow]

but I doubt any Fallen would have much knowledge

[slim elk]

Doubt would have been the last place he burned

[dim minnow]

even if they were there from the start

they didn't even know much about Humanity before then

[trim grotto]

I'm gonna have to go with no

[slim elk]

Thats the funny part about namrask.. actually studied enough human mythology to steal the name of Achilles

Clearly had someone looking into it

[dim minnow]

there is that, but he hasn't really been sharing what he knew

ancient mythology probably isn't that relevant either

[slim elk]

Though honestly, think reeks more of Bungie getting sloppy in their writing timeline wise as an echo of Lightfall's failures

[dim minnow]

it's more of a false prophet I'd say

or a shit attempt at making a second coming

and as for Ada, by the time they left the bunker, the Dark Age was already in full swing

[trim grotto]

We're talking about Ada now?

[dim minnow]

I was continuing something I was talking about with Freak

about how there is likely no one still living who would have any sort of knowledge on how humanity organised before the Fallen first appeared after the Collapse

Freak suggested that Namrask and Ada would have that knowledge

[slim elk]

Yeah, the annoying this is that Black Armory Papers dont have anything solid date wise.. does seem like months though for them abandoning the lab

[dim minnow]

I don't recall if the Fallen were mentioned though

[slim elk]

Nope

Had weird vague mentions of nocturnal creatures slaughtering everything

[trim grotto]

Hmm

[dim minnow]

are you referring to the wet earth thing that might have been a Hive Ogre?

[slim elk]

Nope, the airport and other mentions throughout the entries

[dim minnow]

ok, well I'd say it is either more Hive or Fallen

[slim elk]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/entry-115-116-117#book-the-black-armory-papers

When the sun is up, we're wary of other Humans. When the moon rises, we worry about worse creatures.

[dim minnow]

I don't that is Henriette mentioning something attacking them at night

more so she is worried if something else is going to attack them like in Niobe Labs

[slim elk]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/entries-70-71-72#book-the-black-armory-papers

Its a persistent mention. Something keeps attacking at night but retreats during the day

[obsidian falcon]

Please could someone explain the entire lore to me? Feel free to drop me a DM. I’ve just started Destiny 2 and it really fascinates me. However, due to the colossal amount of gameplay, I can’t seem to piece together what everything is in order or who is who. Thank you!

[dim minnow]

that was the wet earth thing that attacked them though

[dim minnow]

big ask, there is a lot of lore

you should start a little smaller

[buoyant dragon]

You can watch a Byf video on the general lore of the destiny universe

[obsidian falcon]

Shortened down would be helpful. Call it a brief if you will

[obsidian falcon]

I’ve never been one to pick things up from videos. I enjoy reading about things and getting information that way.

[slim elk]

Yeah, and still had later mentions of being nocturnal... Hive dont behave that way

[chrome fog]

… do you think Lakshmi - who herself didn’t even know she was from Neomuna - would divulge her true past (if she even knew, which she didn’t) to someone she probably didn’t personally interact with prior to Namrask’s relocation to the Last City? Do you think the Eliksni who firebombed London went around demanding where more humans in the system were when they were only attacking one small portion of our home planet? Again, no one would have known save for fucking Soteria - the mind that sent the colonists to where Neomuna would be built - and how would Ada-1 even have known about Stargazer, she’s barely even connected to those events

[chrome fog]

I’d suggest picking one character or event and reading up on their category on Ishtar collective

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[dim minnow]

Fallen wouldn't have had the strength to break into the place

[trim grotto]

We can provide an overview, but Destiny's lore is, to quote the Books of Sorrow, huge and old.

It'd not exactly be brief or short

[obsidian falcon]

Also, just looked at the Byf video. That’s only covering from the Creation to the Shadowkeep ‘era’.

[dim minnow]

and the description of the creature somewhat lines up with what Inaaks said about the Hive

[slim elk]

Yep, and the weird behavior isnt something that Hive do..
I figured it was an early Tormentor

[obsidian falcon]

I enjoy reading large books and stuff. If anyone has the time to explain it the best they can without overdoing themselves, that would be great!

[slim elk]

Something stuck a glaive in the ship that reached Neomuna

[dim minnow]

wet earth description lines up with Hive though

[obsidian falcon]

An example being who or what created the guardians, the threats they faced and why it happened. Just stuff like that.

[dim minnow]

and Hive primarily operating at night is not too uncharacteristic depending on what they are doing

[chrome fog]

Nezarec’s remains had not been gathered at this point and neither had Calus entered the system even, how the fuck would the Tormentors be attacking the Black Armory bunker in the Dark Age

[dim minnow]

you knwo what the Traveler is?

[slim elk]

So explain to me what stuck a glaive in the side of a ship

[dim minnow]

"disciple of fear"?

[obsidian falcon]

That big ball in the sky right?

[dim minnow]

Ahsa mentioned something like that

[dim minnow]

yes

[obsidian falcon]

Mhm.

[slim elk]

Yep, so confirmation we have unknown Darkness forces or entities running around in the Collapse

[dim minnow]

the Traveler is an entity that can shape the physical world, a being of Light

[chrome fog]

Ah yes the fucking Winterbite looks like something Nezarec cooked up, matches his aesthetic and everything

[dim minnow]

I was arguing if whether or not Fallen were in the Black Armory papers?

[obsidian falcon]

Okay

[dim minnow]

this ability mainly takes the for of terraformation

where the Traveler terraforms worlds to make them hospitable

this is what it did when it first arrived in Sol

and when humanity sent a small team to Mars to meet the Traveler, the Golden Age began

[slim elk]

Yeah, so Fallen dont appear in the Black Armory Papers. Just an unknown nocturnal creature that may be an Ogre or unknown darkness force

[obsidian falcon]

And Sol is the solar system that the guardians are living in?

[dim minnow]

yes, the Solar System

Sol for short

[obsidian falcon]

Btw I sent you a dm.

Dripped a friend request too.

Dropped*

[trim grotto]

I'll definitely put in some work for you
Let me finish lunch, wash up, and put away dishes
Then I'll hop on the computer and get started

[obsidian falcon]

Feel free to send me a DM when you’re ready. I’m getting some information from @dim minnow. Where we finish off is where you can pick up if you want to.

[cyan monolith]

I appear

@trim grotto Can Guardians make new subclasses out of the light or are they restricted to void/arc/solar

[trim grotto]

We've never seen any examples of a new element if that's what you mean
Apart from the rare use of Light itself without an element

[cyan monolith]

So did the first light users come up with the 3 current subclasses or

[trim grotto]

Well, first, let's clarify - subclasses or elements? Since subclasses are class-specific combat styles that use particular elements.

[cyan monolith]

I guess elements

Kinda referring to like void solar arc

[trim grotto]

They kinda just came naturally to people as they explored their powers

[dim minnow]

they seem to be the main physical elements

or the primary means for us to warp physical reality

[chrome fog]

They encompass three foundational interactions in physics

Solar to Fission and Fusion - bonds between subatomic particles - Arc to Static electricity - more specifically connective energy between atoms and molecules - and Void to gravitational potential

[fierce kestrel]

Taniks, the Abomination

[outer dragon]

[dim minnow]

Taniks, the Abomination

[jagged badge]

Taniks, the Abominable Snowman

[empty fern]

Better be this years dawning boss

[ember storm]

the Taniks who stole Christmas

[echo fjord]

All I Want For Christmas is Taniks

[empty fern]

Taniks is coming, to townnnn

[wheat latch]

This, I like this 🎄

What did this start from? Just different iterations of taniks? Lol

[empty fern]

Christmas songs yes

And both words are 2 syllables

[wheat latch]

Wait I wanna try,
Taniks baby, it's cold outside

How'd I do? :D

[empty fern]

Honestly?

Yea it works

[wheat latch]

Lmao lfg

Honestly just thought of the first popular Christmas song that came to mind

[empty fern]

Hmmm

Taniks’s chair is coming, to towwwnnn

[wind flare]

I have taniks' head yet he's probably still coming back for the dawning raid boss

[slim elk]

"Taniks, the Pumpkin Head"

[empty fern]

Taniks the headless horseman of Christmas Eve

Taniks the dualahan (how spell it)

[outer dragon]

Dullahan

For future reference

[lost abyss]

Rites of Passage recieved a new entry today, along with a new radio transmission in the Helm.

The lore page was, uh. Interesting.

[empty fern]

@honest zodiac here’s the rabbit thing, lemme find the cow thing

[honest zodiac]

👍

[empty fern]

Welcome to lore chat

[worldly edge]

So I just learned the Saint and Osiris are gay. And that I apparently have no radar for it

[haughty horizon]

Hi

[empty fern]

Wait till you see Marc’s man the marksman

[cyan monolith]

Lore chat i brought you a new lore disciple

[haughty horizon]

If ur radar isn’t work they can’t be gay

[pallid dagger]

They were introduced as friends then apparently they were gay

[worldly edge]

That's pretty dope though. Making 2 of the strongest in their class as gay.

[haughty horizon]

🧢

[cyan monolith]

Osiris isn't very strong anymore

[haughty horizon]

No offence to the gays

[empty fern]

1 crippled and the other well, not crippled

[cyan monolith]

I mean

Tbh

[empty fern]

Is Saint weakened in some way?

[cyan monolith]

Osiris is wearing like 4 solar exotics

[worldly edge]

Saint crippled Osiris. It's lore now I decided

I said what I said

[haughty horizon]

Sorry

[empty fern]

Too muc

Get out

[cyan monolith]

He happens to be wearing sunbracers, lunafaction, phoenix, and dawn chorus

[haughty horizon]

Ok

[empty fern]

You lost lore privileges

[haughty horizon]

Sorry

Bye

[empty fern]

Protocol?

[lost schooner]

what was the reason behind us doing Vow?

[pallid dagger]

Wait is he really?

[empty fern]

Thought that was some form of chromatic

[cyan monolith]

Yes

[worldly edge]

Hahaha! Used Trespasser

[pallid dagger]

Lmao too much power

[empty fern]

Wq gave us some leads I think?

[cyan monolith]

Well I'm like 90% he's wearing Phoenix could be wrong though

[worldly edge]

Who is the hunter equivalent to those 2?

[empty fern]

Chromatic vex orni

[cyan monolith]

Whadya mean

[haughty horizon]

Pretty sure cayde was like the strongest

Or someshit

🤷‍♂️

[empty fern]

Wasn’t it andal or something? The first hunter vanguard

[worldly edge]

Wait. The characters wear actual gear that we can obtain?

[empty fern]

That died to a wish dragon card game

[empty fern]

Sorta

[haughty horizon]

Cloak of cayde goes hard

Get it

[cyan monolith]

Kinda

[empty fern]

Osiris has special orni version of sunb

[worldly edge]

Isn't the dude that was caydes best friend the best hunter?

[empty fern]

Saint is just Saint

[empty fern]

Forgot who that was

Holdon

[worldly edge]

Memory of Cayde?

[cyan monolith]

Isn't ana a very powerful hunter?

[empty fern]

@ember storm wake up and clarify some stuff

[haughty horizon]

Idk

[cyan monolith]

Wheres mael

[ember storm]

what do you want

[cyan monolith]

they are pro lore

[ember storm]

I’m occupied

make it quick

[empty fern]

I think she’s been focusing on (or was) focused on rasputin type projects

Rn she’s probably coping

[empty fern]

Strongest hunter in history

[ember storm]

power scaling is stupid

goodbye

[empty fern]

Damnit

Type faster damn

[cyan monolith]

Yeah well im talking about how powerful she is not her severe depression

[empty fern]

I don’t think very powerful

And haven’t seen her outside of warmind related stuff

But she was at the wq meeting so maybe

[raw tundra]

Who can play rn

[worldly edge]

I have a theory. About ghosts. What if, ghosts were made by the darkness but imbued with stolen light from the traveler during the first collapse. And in the end killing out ghost stops the second collapse

[ember storm]

guardians aren’t “more powerful” it just comes down to who’s trained more and has more experience

[fierce kestrel]

Taniks, the Abomination

[cyan monolith]

Erm no

[versed orbit]

this is it

[ember storm]

there might be some cases where natural talent shows but it’s useless without actual skill

[cyan monolith]

;lfg

[candid inlet]

Looking for more players?
Check out #looking-for-group for links to our LFG channels, and further resources including:

• Destiny 2 LFG Discord (Formerly the Destiny 2 PC LFG, now for all platforms)
• D2Checkpoint
• Bungie Fireteam Search
• Reddit's r/Fireteam
• Reddit's r/DestinySherpa

[worldly edge]

Pretty sure I'm on to something

[empty fern]

Nah

[cyan monolith]

no

[empty fern]

You gonna be the furthest off the mark watch

[ember storm]

the traveler made ghosts

it’s just definitive fact

if anything their nature is proof they have zero connection with darkness

[cyan monolith]

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-ghost-gif-25772206

[ember storm]

darkness is all about the mental aspect

ghosts can’t do anything with that

[cyan monolith]

Also don't ghosts need to have some kinda genetic shit to revive us

[ember storm]

they can only heal physical

[empty fern]

Which was why ghost felt funny during lightfall?

[ember storm]

and guardians distinctly have zero memory when they’re rezzed

[ember storm]

that’s just the veil being fucky to everything

[empty fern]

Damn

Those poor exos

[ember storm]

yeah golden age exos literally just dropped dead in proximity

and from that we got Lakshmi-2 which really isn’t fun

[cyan monolith]

Are the traveler and the veil primordial beings?

[empty fern]

I

Guess?

[worldly edge]

Okay. Well why do yall think cayde is coming back?

[ember storm]

what are you asking

[cyan monolith]

Have they existed since the beginning

[versed orbit]

money

[cyan monolith]

Profit

[ember storm]

the witness is using the traveler’s pale heart and making some sort of still-state of the universe where everything that was and will be is condensed into one thing

final shape shenanigans

[versed orbit]

corpo overlords revived him

[empty fern]

Lego movie plot

[worldly edge]

I mean lore. Obviously they messed up by killing him

[ember storm]

no they didn’t

[cyan monolith]

No

They didnt

[versed orbit]

killing cayde was a good idea

[empty fern]

Why he came back? Idk, power of friendship for the directors

[ember storm]

Cayde’s death was entirely on purpose and needed

[versed orbit]

him dying spawned the best dlc

[ember storm]

^

[empty fern]

That got vaulted later

[ember storm]

they ruined his character and could only fix it by killing him

[ember storm]

the only good parts are still ingame

[empty fern]

Fair

Wonder if they’ll make him pull a rohan

[ember storm]

you can’t say “it sucks forsaken is gone!” and then say like ohhhh the rifleman was peak destiny

[worldly edge]

How did they ruin cayde? I didn't get into d2 until forsaken

[ember storm]

get that shit out of here

tangled shore was awful

[ember storm]

he was vaguely funny in D1 and people liked him

so they took away all nuance and depth and just make him spew jokes on D2 release

[worldly edge]

I liked his attitude.

[ember storm]

in forsaken

which is the dlc they killed him

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/cayde6-destiny2-hug-cayde-hug-deception-gif-25920857

[wind flare]

the pikes with flaming trails though

[versed orbit]

he just got lobotomised in vanilla d2

[worldly edge]

I loved the launch trailers for D2

[ember storm]

those are notoriously “bad Cayde” scenarios

[empty fern]

Wasn’t it just his arm?

[worldly edge]

That gif of cayde is my actual personality

[cyan monolith]

He looks very serious in tfs

[worldly edge]

Bad cayde?

[ember storm]

it’s horrible characterization to have Cayde sitting in a collapsed bar while the city is actively being invaded and civilians are being rounded up for execution, yes

they just did that for the sake of “he’s the funny man”

[versed orbit]

he's so chill

[ember storm]

don’t even get me started on the live action trailer

[empty fern]

Waltz doesn’t like the monologue

[worldly edge]

I loved those!

Why do you hate me @ember storm lol

[cyan monolith]

did bro say that

[versed orbit]

bro is cayde 6

[ember storm]

when did I ever imply that

[cyan monolith]

[worldly edge]

I'm joking bud

[ember storm]

I’m saying activision has a shitty marketing department

[versed orbit]

evil company

[cyan monolith]

bad joke learn to make good joke

[worldly edge]

In context it made absolute sense.

I'd say I loved something. He's respond with the opposite. That's all.

Maths all there

[ember storm]

not a he but thanks

[cyan monolith]

still bad joke

[worldly edge]

🙄

[wind flare]

could the witness clear all of the raids?

[ember storm]

also me saying the commercials were bad was the first time they were brought up in the conversation

[wind flare]

solo

[modern quartz]

I mean

[ember storm]

it’s the witness

[modern quartz]

Yeah

[ember storm]

they wouldn’t be raids

I mean arguably atheon has the potential to erase them from existence, but I assume the witness can just snap away the oracles so

[wind flare]

Wouldn't the witness have to know the order

[ember storm]

no

because reprised raids aren’t canon

there isn’t an order

they just appear and you shoot them in D1

[wind flare]

was there no order in the original

oh

[modern quartz]

didn't witness just swiped the old guardian in the cutscene as we've seen before

[ember storm]

one

the other two survived

[modern quartz]

huh

still though

that doesn't mean we can beat witness

[cyan monolith]

He got diced

[cyan monolith]

Well we obviously can't brute force it

So theres gonna be some strategy to it

[ember storm]

if only there was a dlc dedicated to uncovering the secrets of the new realm it’s created

where some new things are going to be introduced

oh well

[modern quartz]

witness is almost big as oryx

[cyan monolith]

Biggee

[modern quartz]

except I think they're bigger than oryx

[cyan monolith]

By alot

[ember storm]

witness probably has no concrete size

[cyan monolith]

But witness scaling is shit

[ember storm]

but also it’s the witness

[cyan monolith]

This

[ember storm]

it’s not going to do basic “haha we are big now because strong”

Oryx just did that because he was desperate

[modern quartz]

Yeah, that might be true

but that doesn't mean witness will be vulnerable too easily

who knows maybe we can't beat it

maybe it's the opposite

[cyan monolith]

I mean

[ember storm]

we will

the saga is ending

[cyan monolith]

They kinda said we will in the raid

[ember storm]

it’s the raid boss

[modern quartz]

Good to know

[fresh zephyr]

Did Saint-14 really vent his anger by bullying first light Savathun?

[modern quartz]

yeah

[ember storm]

says who?

[modern quartz]

I mean she deserved it

[fresh zephyr]

This is a certified gamer moment LMAO

[modern quartz]

In the lore.

[ember storm]

where

[modern quartz]

ingame lore

It was somewhere

[ember storm]

show me

[modern quartz]

I forgor

[ember storm]

because it definitely didn’t happen

if it did she’d just be dead dead

[fresh zephyr]

The final card of the current season lore book

[fresh zephyr]

Evaze made a video about it

[ember storm]

I’m not watching an evaze lore video

[cyan monolith]

Watch my name is byf

[ember storm]

no

[fresh zephyr]

He hasn't mentioned it yet I think, but it is the last chapter of the lore book we got this season, what saint did was hysterical

[modern quartz]

Ok but she deserved it

that's the whole point

[ember storm]

I find it hard to believe he wouldn’t just kill her

[fresh zephyr]

To him yea, to me idrc, he wants to settle the thing, I'm dying for the aftermath after that bully session

[ember storm]

she’s still an active enemy of the vanguard

[cyan monolith]

And she still died to sunshot

[ember storm]

she died to the goddamn Shadowkeep sword

Savathun is weak as hell

[fresh zephyr]

Both her and the vanguard has a common enemy, the whole witch queen campaign was just stopping her from her method

[cyan monolith]

Yes

[fresh zephyr]

New light moment

[ember storm]

I should be able to visit Savathun in patrol and take her lunch money

[modern quartz]

he did.

multiple.

times.

it literally says it in the lore

[fresh zephyr]

Immaru as a witness

Tho blinded by the ward of dawn and saint exotic helmet

[cyan monolith]

Immaru doesnt care

[fresh zephyr]

Yep, but all ends well afterward

I wonder what will she do afterwards, since logically she has no reason to threaten us now since she has gone from do what the witness said to oppose them and follow the light, she even made the Imbaru to self-sustain her worm before she got the light

And she found us human fascinating while being osiris

I really wonder what's she cooking up now

[ember storm]

Savathun doesn’t seem like the kind of person to live and let live, honestly

[cyan monolith]

She's probably gonna help us with xivu

[fresh zephyr]

Unless she has some sinister plan that includes getting rid of us. I doubt so, it's more likely that we stand on neutral ground, she's friendly towards us but it is still the hive tradition to fight and kill hence Eris saying we could still patrol in her throne world.

[ember storm]

I’m not talking about grand plans

[fresh zephyr]

Pretty sure she already helped us, next time we'd probably join force with caialt to kill xivu

[ember storm]

she probably just wants to kill us out of genuine spite

yeah Caiatl is the go-to for Xivu hunting

[cyan monolith]

Erm

[fresh zephyr]

Doubt it, she was the one willing to talk to us, let saint beat her, literally let Eris slit her throat

[cyan monolith]

no

xivu yes

[ember storm]

because Xivu was a bigger problem

this isn’t a Caiatl armistice situation

we’re not friends now

[fresh zephyr]

Xivu was no longer the problem when saint beat her

[ember storm]

Eris needed Savathun’s stockpiled tribute so Savathun let her take it

[ember storm]

did you mistype here or

[cyan monolith]

is this a typo

[fresh zephyr]

Err, no, Xivu was no longer the concern during the story where saint was killing her over and over at her throne world, this happen after Eris banish xivu from her throne world

[ember storm]

Xivu being banished from her throne world means she’s mortal

killing her once just kills her

I doubt Saint killed her multiple times, let alone once

[fresh zephyr]

Dude, the story is right there in the lore book

Fine I'll find the book for you then

[ember storm]

The story of Saint 14 killing Xivu arath, the hive god of war, multiple times?

after Xivu was banished from her throne world?

and turned mortal?

that’s in a lore book?

[jagged badge]

Savathûn, not Xivu

[ember storm]

this person said xivu and then doubled down

which is why i am questioning their legitimacy

[empty fern]

What I miss

[ember storm]

apparently it's a hot take that we're not friends with savathun

[fresh zephyr]

Oh right that her was very vague, I meant savathun

[ember storm]

my message was solely about xivu

savathun was never banished from her throne world

[fresh zephyr]

I didn't say that

[ember storm]

the concept is irrelevant to her now aside from the fact she has a private interdimensional domicile

she gets no benefits

it's just a space

[fresh zephyr]

Okay, lemme make this clear, xivu was no longer the concern the moment Eris banish her from throne world by using savathun's power

She has no reasons to start fighting us, guardian were literally her friends

[ember storm]

which was after savathun got her throat slit

now that xivu is not a threat, savathun has no reason to be buddy-buddy with us

[fresh zephyr]

Which is also after Saint beat Savathun

[fresh zephyr]

Which was my point disagreeing this

[ember storm]

could you just put this into a timeline

you're not making this clear

bottom line, savathun only did anything this season because we need her help, she knew this

there was a trade

we deal with xivu, savathun helps us with the portal

slitting savathun's throat was part of the "us dealing with xivu"

she didn't let us do it out of the kindness of her heart

xivu was then rendered powerless, and to hold up the end of the deal, savathun said we already have what we need and fucked off

we're not friends

we're not allies

we've just got other things to deal with atm so we're not punishing savathun for everything she's done over the years

it's going to happen eventually, though

we're not forgiving her and letting her go free

[fresh zephyr]

What was the season where we release her from her worm again?

[ember storm]

lost

[fresh zephyr]

And the who is Savathun cinematic

[ember storm]

where we actively sought to kill her but she just escaped

the cutscene in witch queen showcasing savathun's resurrection is still during season of the lost

it happened within minutes

[fresh zephyr]

No the story telling cutscene where she starts with "who is Savathun you might ask"

[ember storm]

that was in lost

[fresh zephyr]

Yes, that and during when we talk to her in that season, I wouldn't say she's the friend friend, she's just much more friendlier towards us

[ember storm]

she was never our friend

she was literally just being manipulative

"oh yes guardian i am your friend i corrupted, enabled, and gave a mind-controlled faction leader the power to be a terrorist"

[slim elk]

Do gotta ask this
Why not just crush Immaru now?

[ember storm]

lakshmi literally only did everything she did in splicer because savathun made her

that's not being a friend

[slim elk]

Savathuns just gonna be a threat

[ember storm]

i mean immaru is just hanging around

if he's not going to revive savathun there's no reason to go at him

it's like deciding to kill cyrell's ghost

[jagged badge]

Because we don’t understand what we need for the portal

[ember storm]

no real point

[jagged badge]

So we’re gonna keep Savathûn alive until we do

[ember storm]

just kill the troublesome risen and leave the ghost

[fresh zephyr]

I suppose, but like at the current moment, she doesn't really have motives against us, we just don't trust her since she lies a lot

Surely we'll get her for what she has done

[ember storm]

she has all the motives in the world against us

the only reason anything is happening as it is, is because we ruined the plan she was working on for thousands of years, potentially even millions

and during the act of tearing down her life's work in front of her eyes, we caused a mental breakdown by making the biggest deception of her life a complete joke by revealing the krill were just lied to

[fresh zephyr]

And during the witch queen, she stop us from foiling her ritual where she seals the traveler away which is a good intention

[ember storm]

it's literally not

it's entirely a selfish motive

[fresh zephyr]

That's the whole reason we fight her

[ember storm]

sealing the traveler in savathun's throne world would confine all its power to her throne world

the universe would be left to rot, defenseless against the witness

we would lose our connection to the light and be condemned to extinction

[fresh zephyr]

Let's take a look at this from her point of view, she was protecting the traveler, to the traveler it is a good intention to us it is bad

[ember storm]

her point of view is she just wants the traveler for herself

[fresh zephyr]

And that's why we fight and stop her

[ember storm]

everything she's ever done was for self-survival

she doesn't think it's morally right

she just doesn't care others suffer

savathun just saying the words "oh the traveler would be safe with me!" is literally just her making fun of guardians

[fresh zephyr]

And then we finally kill her for good, and the choice for us to make, to lose or to win

[ember storm]

she's taking the fact guardians lay down their lives in sacrifice and taking it to the most sarcastic extreme by just telling us to our faces it'd be easier if we all just committed suicide

there is no moral side to savathun's decisions

she wanted to save herself

stealing the traveler would've let her do that

[fresh zephyr]

I mean can you be so sure that is all of her intention, especially when we read her recorded memory during the witch queen campaign

[ember storm]

the recorded memory she made with the full intention of us seeing

the memory she had with full intention of going through with stealing the traveler just after we'd see it

you notice how she never once tries to present her case for what she's doing?

because there is no case

it's literally just a selfish thing for her own benefit

she just mockingly tells us the traveler is better off without us while she's trying to steal it

[fresh zephyr]

Then if she was really for her own survival, why did she let the vanguard take custody of immaru as a proof that she doesn't lie

[ember storm]

so we don't immediately try to hunt her down

she's going to try and weasel her way out of this while we're still preoccupied

either we fail at stopping the witness and we all die, or we actually succeed

savathun is letting us deal with that

in the meantime, she's preparing in every way she can in order to stop us from just permanently killing her once it's convenient

[fresh zephyr]

I mean, she could just have told us straight away, instead of making us jumping through hoops to find out ways to enter the portal

[ember storm]

because she knows we've got the upper hand in literally every other way

she's just taking little jabs to make herself feel better

she is genuinely threatened by us and knows one false move is game over

she needs to keep up appearances and behave so as not to seem out of place

again, the only reason we're letting her live is because of a bigger threat

[fresh zephyr]

Can you elaborate that, I don't get what you mean by that

[ember storm]

we hold all the cards

[fresh zephyr]

Not exactly? No? Cuz since the moment she told us a straight answer, she wouldn't give immaru to us as a insurance?