📚lore-discussion

[muted hemlock]

Don’t remind me

I hated watching that cutscene

[ember storm]

Ada just shot some with izanagi

also fallen have routinely been killing ghosts for centuries

[muted hemlock]

But I loved how even in the face of death, he made the time to crack a joke.

[ember storm]

it’s not a hard thing to do

[muted hemlock]

Just like Deadpool.

[empty fern]

Still wondering to this day what happened to the guardian in the almighty stream beam

[ember storm]

the hard part is landing the shot

[ember storm]

went to a happy butterfly farm upstate

[empty fern]

Wait what?

[ember storm]

dark age

she killed warlords

and their ghosts

[empty fern]

Oh

[muted hemlock]

What?

[ember storm]

like I’ve been saying

[empty fern]

Wonder if she killed any iron lords

[ember storm]

you don’t need a special weapon

[muted hemlock]

What are iron lords

[ember storm]

just need a gun and good aim

ghost goes byebye

[blazing wasp]

High enough non paracausal damage can kill a ghost

[empty fern]

Izi uses special ammo, not primary

[muted hemlock]

Like my demonic rocket launcher?

[ember storm]

you’re a guardian just use your hands

[blazing wasp]

Your weapons are infused with light

[muted hemlock]

I wonder if we could electrocute a ghost to death then electrocute it again to bring it back to life….

[empty fern]

You are the light

[muted hemlock]

Let’s go with that….

[ember storm]

remember a stray bullet from a vex gun pit Sagira in a coma

[empty fern]

It’s not organic like that no

[blazing wasp]

A regular ol bullet from your gun can do it

[muted hemlock]

Who?

[ember storm]

one more shot or a more powerful gun would’ve just killed her

[muted hemlock]

It’s an ai

[empty fern]

No

[ember storm]

it’s not artificial

[muted hemlock]

It’s called testing

[muted hemlock]

Kind of is

[ember storm]

it’s an actual intelligence

[muted hemlock]

Traveler made them

[blazing wasp]

It only works on animals because our organs respond to electrical signals

Ghosts don't have that

[ember storm]

they’re real consciousnesses

[muted hemlock]

So do computers

[ember storm]

none of it is fake

[muted hemlock]

As I said

Traveler made them

[blazing wasp]

Not even remotely the same as organs

[ember storm]

what you mean the living embodiment of creation and the growth of life?

wow crazy

[muted hemlock]

But They still react if you shoot them with lighting

[ember storm]

I wonder what the life forms made of her would be

oh right

[empty fern]

Dj you aren’t computer anatomist now hush

[ember storm]

alive

[blazing wasp]

Pc "organs" use electricity as a fuel source, animals use it as a command

[muted hemlock]

My computers broken right now

[blazing wasp]

Electricity for a computer is like blood

[empty fern]

[muted hemlock]

You just gave me so many images in my head.

So many pictures.

[blazing wasp]

And if they work the same why can't you just take out a organ from a animals and it will keep living

And can rework if reinserted even if away for years

[muted hemlock]

If you take out someone’s heart they die.

[blazing wasp]

Ultrakill

[muted hemlock]

If you take out a computers cpu it dies.

[blazing wasp]

If I put it back in or replace it though

[muted hemlock]

It’s all fixed

[blazing wasp]

Yeah

[muted hemlock]

Now you get it

[blazing wasp]

Just like a human person

Now give me your bones

I'll gine them back

[muted hemlock]

Who’s Dixie

[blazing wasp]

Give

[empty fern]

A ghost probably?

[muted hemlock]

No the cat

[ember storm]

difference is if you take a person’s heart out and they die they don’t come back

[empty fern]

Oh

[ember storm]

they’re a thing called

[empty fern]

Who’s cat

[ember storm]

dead

[muted hemlock]

Actually

[empty fern]

Shut up

[muted hemlock]

We’ve had heart transplants and artificial hearts

Not even mentioning pacemakers

[ember storm]

they’re not fucking dead then are they

[muted hemlock]

Not yet

If you do it quickly

[ember storm]

yeah that’s my point

[muted hemlock]

Now you get it

[ember storm]

computers don’t need to have it done quickly

people do

you can’t compare them

[blazing wasp]

Ok but a computer can have it be done with indefinite time between

[muted hemlock]

Well if you want it to stay on you need to do it fast

[empty fern]

A true stasis

[blazing wasp]

A pc can be revived

A human cannot

From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh

It disgusted me

[muted hemlock]

Acshually

[blazing wasp]

Doesn't count

[muted hemlock]

We have defribilators and chest compressions for a reason

[blazing wasp]

Ok what if I remove the heart

And throw it away

And nothing is nearly

Nearby

The flesh is weak but the machine is eternal

[muted hemlock]

They die

[blazing wasp]

Yeah and if I bring another heart after 3 days

And put it back in

[muted hemlock]

Take the cpu out and throw it away it dies

[blazing wasp]

They die

[muted hemlock]

I said it was time sensitive didn’t I

[blazing wasp]

They don't come back

Yeah

Pc isnt

Because

The flesh is weak

[muted hemlock]

Ghost and humans are so much alike

[blazing wasp]

Inferior

[muted hemlock]

Scream when being killed

Can be shot to death

Sentient

Has accesories

Has friends

[empty fern]

be hush now

[muted hemlock]

Has parents

[ember storm]

they don’t do that

[muted hemlock]

Wdym?

[ember storm]

have parents

some also don’t have friends

[muted hemlock]

Well you kind of have to be friends with your guardian

[empty fern]

Like immaru

[muted hemlock]

And the traveler is the aprents

[muted hemlock]

WHO IS IMMARU????

I KEEP HEARING THAT NAME!!!!

[ember storm]

you don’t

just ask drifter

[empty fern]

We have hive ghosts every day, you think they found their guardians?

[ember storm]

or Gilgamesh

[blazing wasp]

Mfw imbaru

[ember storm]

mfw AIAT AIAT

[muted hemlock]

They were kind of lured in

[empty fern]

Imbaru

[muted hemlock]

And forced to do labor

[empty fern]

You think they had guardians before then?

[blazing wasp]

Whats that

[empty fern]

Imbaru

[blazing wasp]

This sentence technically qualifies as imbaru

Hey, vsauce, Michael here, this sentence is imbaru... or is it?

[empty fern]

Watch the imbaru engine be the filler for most of the season

Oh yea

Who are naming these vex

[ember storm]

me

[empty fern]

Stop naming them

[ember storm]

they could join the movement Fynch is in and defect

but they’re not

they’re reveling in their new life

one of them was even yelling at their hive Lightbearer because they didn’t want to kill a guardian’s ghost

[muted hemlock]

Most likely.

Savathûn probably lured them away.

[ember storm]

they didn’t

Fynch literally says it, they were ghosts who didn’t have guardians before

they were jaded after years of feeling sorry about themselves because they couldn’t find a guardian

[little gorge]

thinking imbaru is immaru is imbaru

[worldly river]

Destiny deep lore is imbaru
And us trying to explain it is imbaru

[little gorge]

I can't wait for the eventual "i am cunning and you have conjured me back with cunning" (we imbaru'd too hard)

[dense warren]

all this conspiracy is imbaru

[little gorge]

well that's literally the point

[dense warren]

yeah

cool concept imo

[little gorge]

savathun when the guardians find a silly room with a sticky note that says "imbaru engine" (they have generated immense amounts of imbaru)

the thing with the engine is there's nothing special about it

it's just a mildly confusing room

[dense warren]

could’ve turned prophecy final boss into the engine

same thing

i did like the sideways swinging lanterns in there

literally thing but turned has never been a thought in my head

[little gorge]

new light has ruined every swinging obstacle for me

every time i see one i have to check if it clips through the ceiling

[empty fern]

Same

[chrome fog]

We had a full raid team go to the tower after Atheon and we did the funny mass juggle on Archie

Suggestion: Ishtar also has majority of all lore entries based off of the API (save for a few that are Classified), you can read some of the entries at their website, ishtar-collective.net

[chrome fog]

Savathun's Ghost

[pale garnet]

How do you guys feel about head canon lore separate from the actual lore

[trim grotto]

Headcanon and fanfic? I have no interest. But there are some folk who enjoy it.

[pale garnet]

Not fanfic, made up lore for your guardian that doesn’t make everyone a god killer

[trim grotto]

Is that not the same thing?

[pale garnet]

In my opinion fanfic is a story that involves characters from the story and making a made up story, a “guardian head cannon” is just a backstory/reasoning why everyone isn’t a god killer

[ember storm]

headcanon is just personal fanfiction you apply to the work itself

[pale garnet]

When I say characters from the story I’m talking like Zavala, Saint 14, or Osiris

[trim grotto]

Satan.

[ember storm]

actual fanfiction is something you know is separate from the actual work and isn’t meant to be applied to it

Cyrus?

[trim grotto]

Satan and Cyrus

Saint-14 and Osiris

[pale garnet]

I use voice to text so sorry for the confusion

[ember storm]

don’t forget Ike and Harris

[pale garnet]

(I suck at spelling)

[jagged badge]

Steve Downes thought I was telling him my name was Harris when I met him

[pale garnet]

Like making a story for you guardian that doesn’t have the other characters involved wouldn’t be fanfic but a backstory that does would

[trim grotto]

Either way, I have no interest. There are folk who enjoy it, but it is rarely discussed here.

[ember storm]

My name is Wallace

[trim grotto]

Usually that kind of thing takes place in smaller servers, in my experience

[pale garnet]

Then what is your reasoning for the tower being full of god killers, just wondering

[ember storm]

I have a sour spot on destiny fanfiction now because of this server specifically, actually

[ember storm]

what do you mean

the work itself gives more than enough reasons

[pale garnet]

We’ll think about it

[ember storm]

there’s no need for headcanons

the tower just exists

[jagged badge]

It’s not

[ember storm]

and guardians go there

because the city is there

[trim grotto]

Your player character is considered to be "the" Guardian. Others are other Guardians. The experience is personal.

[jagged badge]

There’s only one Young Wolf

[ember storm]

and guardians go to the city

technically speaking there’s at least 5 other godslayers out there

[jagged badge]

Unless our team rotates out

[pale garnet]

If you go to the tower every single other player is technically also a god killer, because every other guardian is the guardian

[ember storm]

story wise no

[jagged badge]

Because it’s a video game

[ember storm]

they’re just other guardians

[jagged badge]

There’s no way to avoid that because it’s a video game

[ember storm]

boot everybody from the tower when you load in

problem solved

[trim grotto]

From your perspective, I am a random Guardian, you are the Young Wolf. Same applies to my point of view, wherein I am the Young Wolf, and you are a random Guardian.

[gritty narwhal]

Technically anyone you consider to be in your fireteams during raids are also godkillers but there more of like assists

[ember storm]

I already mentioned that yes

[pale garnet]

Good to see you my friend

[gritty narwhal]

Frfr

[ornate anchor]

For awhile now, I've been comparing the designs and aesthetics of the pyramids to Nubia and ancient Egypt

From the power of resonation to harboring forbidden truths and knowledge

In alot of mythology surrounding North-eastern Africa, alot of peeps especially of higher class were immensely intelligent, some of the first libraries made in human history can be found in that area too

[dark trench]

what happened to nokris again? did we kill him or is he still out there?

[outer dragon]

It wasn't super clear
So he was trying to create his own throne world when he was pulled into Savy's. He was expelled out into the Ascendant plane after his first meeting with her. It's not fully clear if he HAD his own Throne World

[dark trench]

Oh interesting. Im guessing that xivu or the vex are gonna be the main enemy after final shape, so hopefully we get to see more of him

if he had his own throne world tho, he’d be pretty strong by then

[outer dragon]

So the first episode after TFS is Echos. The imagery shown with it were Vex themed. The second is Revenant and Scorn themed. The third is called Heresy and is Hive themed. Do you know what is considered heresy to the Hive?

[ember storm]

the activity called Pit of Heresy created by Crota’s daughters with one of the daughters possibly having survived Osiris’ attack

[chrome fog]

What waltz said, though generally I apply to any conclusions which the fanbase makes upon the lore of the work, some which make sense either logically or emotionally, some are just funny haha

[ember storm]

to be clear they could’ve just put basic scorn things for Revenant but they put Fikrul himself

the fact the Heresy one is represented by a bunch of hive swords, when we know the Pit of Heresy was basically an underground ring where hive fought each other to the death, leads me to believe they’re related

plus I don’t think Savathun wanted Nokris alive after he gave her what she needed

she just got his knowledge of necromancy and then sent him off to die to us

[dark trench]

sadly no I have no clue

[outer dragon]

Read the stuff from Waltz above

[slim elk]

On Heresy
The most likely Hive God to remain alive after the Final Shape is Savathun

[dark trench]

ohh got it. well now Im even more excited for whats after final shape if the scorn are involved too

[slim elk]

And with her engaged in full heresy with the Light.. who will have the Hive have left to follow?

[outer dragon]

There is hive in the PoH

[slim elk]

Seems like something that would splinter the Hive

Only Hive God left fully utilizing the Light

Xivus the seasonal arc villain... so probably not going to be long for the world

[outer dragon]

I wonder if there will be a new Hive god that rises out of the PoH

[slim elk]

You already seen her though

She's called Eris Morn:Hive God of Vengeance

[jagged badge]

[slim elk]

Why speculate when we are already making a new Hive God lol

[gritty narwhal]

Do you think xivu arath will be in final shape?

I thought we were going to kill the witness in campaign, then kill her in the raid before the trailer dropped awhile ago

Bc honestly I think she’ll make it through final shape, kinda hoping for the hive to like join us like the cabal and fallen

Unlikely but would be cool

[gentle geyser]

They literally confirmed the witness is the raid boss

[gritty narwhal]

I know

Thats why I said before the trailer dropped

[slim elk]

Might be dead as soon as the end of the season

[gentle geyser]

It would be weird as hell if xivu was treated bigger than the witness

[gritty narwhal]

I really hope they don’t kill a hive god of war in a season

[slim elk]

Might be anti climatic though.. maybe trap her and deal with later

[gentle geyser]

She could be the main villain of the heresy episode

[gritty narwhal]

Tbh dsc doesn’t have the most world ending final boss

[gentle geyser]

Its most likely going to be the episode

[gritty narwhal]

Eramis compared to taniks

[gritty narwhal]

That’d be better

[gentle geyser]

Except the witness is

Its not the same scenario

Not all the raids are world endinng

[gritty narwhal]

Ik

[gentle geyser]

But the final shape one is

[gritty narwhal]

Kinda just confused as to why they locked the final boss behind a raid, not everyone can do raids

[gentle geyser]

Shes not gonna show up in the final shape, where would she even get involved

[gritty narwhal]

No clue thats why I was asking

[jagged badge]

Because the Witness is a big deal

[gentle geyser]

To incentivize it, as well they heavily implied an event after the raid

[jagged badge]

So the raid is a grand ending to it as a villain

[gentle geyser]

We might get a massive public event for the end of the witness

[gritty narwhal]

Yeah thematically its great don’t get me wrong final boss at the end of a raid but most people can’t even do them

[gentle geyser]

Okay?

[gritty narwhal]

Im wondering how they’ll make it more accessible

Is what im trying to say

[gentle geyser]

So just because not everyone can do it, it shouldn’t be important?

[gritty narwhal]

Not what im saying friend

[gentle geyser]

Sounds like reverse gatekeeping

Raids are THE endgame activity

[slim elk]

It's already happened before
Riven death caused the whole dreaming city curse

And only time you see Riven is in the raid

[gentle geyser]

They have also given out the outcomes of the raids in the game without having to play it yourself

With the cutscenes

[gritty narwhal]

I know what I mean is people who don’t have friends nor access to lfg’s, idk if this is true but I heard only 16% of the community has done a raid before

[gentle geyser]

Again, they implied that there is another event after the raid

[gritty narwhal]

Oh that sounds cool

[gentle geyser]

“But I heard”

[gritty narwhal]

Yes idk if its true

[gentle geyser]

You don’t understand the impact of raids

Raids have always been meant to be these big events especially for lore

[gritty narwhal]

I know this, thats not what im talking sbout, the thing that stops people from doing raids isnt that there super hard, its that they don’t have any friends or lfg’s to play with. The solo experience for d2 kinda sucks

[gentle geyser]

I’m not a hardcore destiny gamer, I’ve only done a couple raids and don’t plan on doing many others but I still respect and enjoy the stuff that comes from them, regardless if I play it myself

[gritty narwhal]

Im wondering if they have any ingame lfg system to be added to actually help those people out

[gentle geyser]

This is just you with a fear of irrational fomo

[gritty narwhal]

I’ve already missed out on alot of the game to be fair I started playing during splicer

[outer dragon]

I want TFS raid to be a 12 man raid

[gentle geyser]

Again, they said it might not be enough to stop the witness, we probably will get a 12 man event or something

[outer dragon]

Would be flavorful

[gritty narwhal]

Wouldn’t that be cool

[gentle geyser]

The thing is, you don’t want the literal biggest villain in all of destiny to not be the villain of a raid

When its happened several times

Plus, my guy your on xbox, xbox has a built in group post system

And they are adding a fireteam finder as well

[gritty narwhal]

I don’t got a problem with that

Im fine with it being the raid boss

Thats not my concern, my concern is for solo players and stuff, people who haven’t touched a raid not bc they don’t want to but bc they cant

[gentle geyser]

Its been kinda established that we can’t take the witness head on

The witness is most likely gonna function exactly like what they did with riven and Forsakens story

[gritty narwhal]

I kinda wonder what’s gonna happen to the traveler after

I think it’ll leave

But let is keep our ghosts and light

[gentle geyser]

That is certainly not going to happen

[gritty narwhal]

It has no reason to run anymore

Wouldn’t it go and bless more civilizations or would it fear another witness incident

[gentle geyser]

No?

[gritty narwhal]

Why not?

[gentle geyser]

You really trying to say its just gonna dip the civilization it’s already blessing, the one that has several other civilizations allied with it

[jagged badge]

It doesn’t have to be a bad thing

[gritty narwhal]

What do we serve for it anymore

We wont be “guarding” it from the witness anymore

[jagged badge]

We’re left with the Ghosts and the residual benefits and the Traveler continues its mission giving other worlds the same benefits

[gentle geyser]

Keep in mind will are getting the ability to return to the pale heart after the story and it becomes an actual location

[jagged badge]

I don’t see why that couldn’t be a possibility tbh

[gentle geyser]

Kinda debunks that whole idea

[gritty narwhal]

I’d still be confusing as to why it bothers to stay

It did all this blessing but now it wants to stop suddenly? Why?

[gentle geyser]

It left previously because the witness arrived each time, the traveler just simply stopped running

[ember storm]

because it knew simply blessing civilizations and watching them die wasn’t going to do anything

[gritty narwhal]

I figured the traveler only gave blessings to people it though could defend it, it gave savathun the light because it thought she could defend the traveler (which she tried to do)

[gritty narwhal]

Because it had nowhere else to go

[ember storm]

it needed to stop the witness and it created guardians to do it

[ember storm]

not true

[gritty narwhal]

Where would it have gone

[gentle geyser]

The traveler stopped running because imo it actually believes in humanity

[ember storm]

anywhere else

the traveler is called a wandering refugee

[gentle geyser]

Especially because humanity is the only race that actually stands a chance against the witness

[ember storm]

it wanders

and when it happens upon a civilization it blesses them

[gritty narwhal]

To be fair savathun could’ve kept the traveler safe from the witness

[ember storm]

the traveler just realized that wasn’t a smart idea anymore so the strategy changed

[ember storm]

and yet the traveler left

[gentle geyser]

Almost like that was the entire plot of witch queen

[ember storm]

if the traveler wanted to stay with Savathun it would’ve just detonated our ghosts and let her kill us

complete the ritual

and stay in the throne world

[gritty narwhal]

Yes which is why im confused as to why you think the traveler cares so much for us

[gentle geyser]

????

I feel you have a bad misunderstanding of the traveler

[gritty narwhal]

Well I think the traveler blesses civilizations it thinks can protect it from the witness, and when the guardians actually proved that it stuck around

[ember storm]

no other civilization had guardians or ghosts

nothing has ever existed like that before

humanity is the first to ever receive that

the creation of ghosts was when the traveler decided it had enough and defied the witness through more than just running

[gentle geyser]

It purely ran previously, it actually put its faith in humanity and stood its ground

[jagged badge]

No. The Traveler loved the Eliksni because they were gentle and kind, not because they were warriors or something

[ember storm]

krill were literally a bunch of naked bug people with a lifespan of 10 years and the traveler was still gunning for them

[rich veldt]

guardians only came about because the witnesses forces attacked

[chrome fog]

And also this was the last corner of existence where the Witness didn’t fuck shit up either directly or indirectly

[cunning stirrup]

https://i.imgur.com/yiRwqvL.png

is this who i think it is

[jagged badge]

It’s Cayde, yes

[potent bridge]

is it possible that we will ever get more ahamkara lore? bc they are all dead, but is there any way for us to learn more?

[low gyro]

Cayde totally sounds like somebody in genchat

[jagged badge]

Well, technically we learned more about them this season iirc

[smoky rose]

There's some implications about Ahamkara this season

With the "Wish" major arcana card

Associated lore

Implications Eris will have to make another wish

[tender cove]

Which makes me think if the raids are financially viable to produce in the first place? Only sixteen percent but that sixteen percent probably makes up the majority of in game purchases so maybe it is.

[smoky rose]

It's an iconic feature

The outraid would be immense if, for example, TFS didn't have a raid

It also brings in a lot of new players, WF races are featured front page on twitch, hosted by twitch rivals

[tender cove]

Oh yeah there is also the content creation side of things which is huge nowadays.

They better do something more creative than just letting the guardian kill the witness in the raid, I gotta watch it at least.

[chrome fog]

Not to mention a major aspect of the whole Fantasy RPG but it's a space shooter as well

[chrome fog]

Honestly I don't expect much else, this encounter has been built up for the better part of a decade and already in just doing what we're doing we're championing the ideals which drive the narrative as a whole, against a force which is anathema to them all

Some massive collective space entity whom lies and deceives all in service to making the Universe only have one outcome, one meaning for its existence and that being to prove who is mightiest? Nonsense, we are a many granted a special gift like the Witness' people all those many eons ago, we serve the purpose of conservation, of preservation, to allow more complex meaning to existing, with all the highs and lows, the good times and trauma, all the good and bad that comes.
We Make Our Own Fate

[tender cove]

Yeah but all the Witness related parts were after shadowkeep I think. I wouldn't know if his specific motives were alluded to earlier than that.

They kept those expansions in the game so it at least allows people to experience that witness part of the sage.

[chrome fog]

*Its; The Witness has been revealed to have had a hand in all the events of importance, to the point of even being the reason the Traveler roams the cosmos as she does

In fact, the macguffin of the most recent expansion was itself being hunted by the Witness, not to mention it's connected to its past as revealed in Season of the Deep

[tender cove]

The Witness is a philosophical pessimist imo. When I look at his motives or the writing of his character, it seems to be inspired by Arthur Schopenhauer.

[tender cove]

Yeah I'm just not sure if they've had this Witness idea from the very start, kind of a physical manifestation of darkness. It's possible.

[chrome fog]

Oh I totally agree (and actually? I was more of the opinion it's philosophies more so connect to Nietzsche's early work before he came upon his later conclusion of "Fuck it, we Ball"), but that's why I'm saying I don't expect anything too twisty in our battle with the Witness. All that they are as a whole is antithesis to what we know the Guardian is supposed to represent, to all the lessons we've learned in our adventures from the past and present conflicts. There's a reason I made a call back to "Guardians make their own Fate", and that is because of the Witness' desire for an explicit meaning given to them by the Traveler/Gardener after all she blessed them with; they sought someone else to define their Fate, when obviously you are the master of your own Destiny, your own self is responsible to for your individual fate - and that of others to an effect - and no one else is.

At the very least, I expect the raid and campaign to reinforce these ideas, that we represent optimism, hope, and seizing our own destiny, and the Witness represents oppression and forced definition of living over others, that our triumph will prove that the way of pessimistic nihilism will not reign over what we can do simply in our lives

[tender cove]

Yes pessimistic nihilism is well put. And I agree that the game will go for a more optimistic tone. There was this idea of a fresh start after reaching the final shape which would be pretty cool but I don't see it feasible considering the story will continue.

I'm hoping they keep including thought provoking scenes from the Witness' side of things throughout the campaign. Because apart from that 3 minute cutscene we got nothing.

[analog torrent]

Citan (who is a Titan) rhymes with Titan... insane.... wow... mind blown...

[empty fern]

Citan

The asshole

[tawdry mauve]

wait till you hear about gunther

[tall crest]

random question but hows the 2 truths and 2 lies for savathun going? like ik we confirmed some of em but what haven't we confirmed/is a little crazy that is confirmed

[trim grotto]

Not entirely settled, but many things are now confirmed or considered to have likely answers.

[tall crest]

whats the craziest one?

[trim grotto]

In what sense?

[tall crest]

tbh im not sure, but some of em like the taken king will rise again technically happened with the raid returning but lore wise would be interesting. Also the choice truths and lies specifically pique my interest, which of those have been confirmed?

[trim grotto]

Choice is probably the most vague remaining of the sets. But I think it's reasonable to say that the Traveler did fall, but did not try to leave. As for the other two, those delve into the realm of theory, word choice, and hypotheticals.

[tall crest]

yah

i mean were the hive chosen by the light?

im a little confused on that front kinda

[trim grotto]

While we've only seen evidence of the one Traveler, the relationship the Tree of Silver Wings has with paracausal forces such as the Traveler is unclear, and the upcoming events within the Traveler remind us that we can't take anything for granted.
On the other hand, the Hive not being the last to be chosen by the Light raises questions. Chosen, but will it be claimed? Does the Light refer to the Traveler or simply the Ghosts? Maybe it's simply false? We can't truly say for sure.

[tall crest]

i see, but were the hive chosen or was it like just savathun and some witch stuff and she was the only one really chose or smth

[trim grotto]

Yes, though the specific manner is up for interpretation. Some believe the Ghosts acted independently from the Traveler, others think the Traveler was involved.
I have my own take on it, which I can dig up for you in a moment.

[tall crest]

ight, also thank you

[trim grotto]

Bah, my writeups were lost when the raids happened. I did record myself discussing it though.

[tall crest]

oof

side note

whats going on with everyone assuming smth bad will happen at the end of the season

atleast most of the people ive talked to

[trim grotto]

I assume they believe Eris won't be able to control her power.

[tall crest]

i see

[jagged badge]

Don’t worry I got this

[candid inlet]

maelstronnar (ID 238506376165457920)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
I have no idea if this will embed correctly

File Name

Grace.m4a

URL

File Link

Command triggered by maelstronnar. Message link from · Aug 22, 2023, 3:58 PM

[trim grotto]

Hm
Kind of worked

Not very well

[tall crest]

im trusting you

[trim grotto]

I must have written up the grace thing elsewhere
One sec

[tall crest]

i see

[tall crest]

get your tithes from trials migt be a little faster lol

[jagged badge]

Funny you say that, Eris does in fact get tithes from Guardians killing Guardians

[tall crest]

wait really?

[jagged badge]

Yeah

[tall crest]

oh

thats funny

[trim grotto]

What the Hive choose to do with that second chance is up to them, however. The Traveler values, above all else, free will and the freedom to choose.
Because of this concept outlined in the Hidden Dossier, the CE of that expansion, I believe the Traveler allowed the Ghosts to choose the Hive.```

I believe that it allowed the Ghosts to choose the Hive, albeit allowing the Ghosts to retain their will and choices.

[tall crest]

i see

so in a sense

it was that the light chose them before but it didn't reach

and its simply returning what was owed albeit in a passive and kinda indirect manner

but in a way couldn't that also mean that the hive were technically chosen before us thus making that statement a lie even though there could be momre, tho this is more a random idea than one supported by fact

[chrome fog]

They would have had to been available to chosen, in my opinion. With Savathun actively seeking a way to separate the Hive from their literally parasitic relationship with their worms, it allowed an opportunity for the Traveler to make good on her goal when she first was arriving upon Fundament

[analog torrent]

Did hoodies, tshirts, jeans, and shorts exist in the dark ages

Modern jackets with zippers

Sneakers

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

If any Risen had anything of the sort on their person, it most likely got recycled into the Greens and Blues you get when you first start as a New Light

[dim minnow]

according to Drifter, he was "dressed for his funeral" when he was rezzed

[ember storm]

better than the tattered wrap the mummy got

[analog torrent]

“Timur continues forward, grasps the brass familiar around his neck, and closes his eyes. A slight hum rises and his trance takes him deep into the sea of shanks, his trusted Lash raised and tearing his path through the darkness. Felwinter is slow to follow, but fast enough to witness Timur's focus turn shanks by the pack against their Vandal keeper, chasing him back toward the sea.”

Why doesn’t this turn up when you look up “Felwinter” on Ishtar? Been to his search results a million times and I’ve never seen this snippet

Also is there any more Felwinter lore that isn’t on Ishtar? I found more Timur-Felwinter interactions that were apparently from an old version of one of the lore pieces and a quote- “I accept the consequences”- that wasn’t on Ishtar

[dim minnow]

that excerpt alludes to the D1 Timur artifact that lets you do turn minor enemies into allies

as for Felwinter lore not on Ishtar

don't think so

[analog torrent]

Ain’t no way he posted that in the lore channel

[dim minnow]

all of it should be on there

[dim minnow]

?

[analog torrent]

Someone posted a discord link involving Rule 3 and was disappeared by the automod

[torpid flint]

So couldn’t it technically allow the Fallen?

[trim grotto]

If it did in fact allow the Ghosts to choose the Hive, then yes, it could.
Well, not right now, it's currently busy fighting for its life.

[gentle geyser]

Eliksni guardians when

[velvet belfry]

Have some ascendant hive been using strand before the guardians got it

I feel like some of their titles or songs imply it

[real ingot]

No

Strand was something we were the first to use

due to the Veil's influence allowing higher concentrations of it to form/reveal themselves to use

[gentle geyser]

They only use the light subclasses

Because, they have the light

Stasis and strand aren’t from the traveler

[trim grotto]

Ascendant aren't Lucent

Quite the opposite, in fact

Ascendant are Hive like Crota and Oryx, with Throne Worlds

[real ingot]

yeah ascendant Hive are quite commonly seen with the more loyal hive

[trim grotto]

But to the prior point, no, Strand is new. Some argue they may have interacted with the Weave beforehand, but there isn't any strong evidence to support that. (Yes, I'm aware of that one random/optional Contact line.)

[chrome fog]

Strand as it’s harnesses by us is new, though I can see some vaguely general connections that Hive Magic and Strand may have, though once you look closer those similarities stretch across all paracausality- the only distinct connection being both use green and (in the case of Hive Magic, sometimes) have association with tapestry terms

[dim minnow]

Strand is tied to conciousness and the Worms have very strong mental powers, so maybe there is a connection there

[chrome fog]

Savathun’s Threadweavers during her boss battle is the closest connection, but again being green and using ‘thread’ and some other words are the only distinct similarities they have

[real ingot]

Thread is likely just word games much like a lot of Sav's names

[chrome fog]

The concept of reality-as-is and reality-as-desired being integral in Destiny’s magic systems makes it wonky to connect different uses of Paracausality to each other specifically, save for outright statements

[chrome fog]

This could very much be true, perhaps a hint of the next Darkness abilities she expected us to discover what with her possession (the “has a thing” possession not “I spirited into you” possession) of the Veil

[real ingot]

I'd guess she wasn't even aware of Strand

Veil only seemed to reveal it due to it's power being routed through the entire city

[chrome fog]

I know someone cited lore which revealed even in the early development of Hive Magic, it was referenced to the weaving of tapestry, though that itself could just be because of the phrase “fabric of reality” being a thing and thus making it even more unclear if there is a connection or sheer coincidence

[real ingot]

Hive magic in practice has a lot with effecting the ascendant realm

Haven't looked into hive magic in years

but I'd wager that's where many of Savathun's word plays stem from

[chrome fog]

Maybe she was on the verge of discovering it, but due to time and pressure she wasn’t able to complete her findings on Strand (though we would’ve most likely found some sort of log which reveals this to us already); also wasn’t it already powering the entire city?

[real ingot]

Savathun put it on Neptune

nothing saying she returned

which makes sense

Witness had an eye on her after Nez died

[chrome fog]

Hmmm, maybe Quria’s disappearance all this time could’ve aided her in monitoring the Veil remotely?

Because Quria had near to no relevance until the build up to Splicer

[real ingot]

it's possible

[chrome fog]

A Taken Vex undercover agent, it would fit Savathun

[real ingot]

I'm still betting next season will involved Savathun and Vex

if so

just missing the link that connects them

[chrome fog]

I really want the Vex to have a stake in our conflict against the Witness, in some way or other

[real ingot]

rn the Vex's goal just seems to be watch and try and get the veil

[dim minnow]

the Vex had their last chance in Undying

after that, they no longer saw any victory for themselves

[chrome fog]

Asher pulling a clutch move and taking over a portion of the Vex network would be cool and stupid, maybe they finally realize the importance of sentience rather than unrelenting assimilators

[chrome fog]

Interesting

[real ingot]

assuming he's still alive

which atp

[dim minnow]

I'd say Asher is done for

[real ingot]

I think I'm putting him with Vance

[dim minnow]

he's always been a bit of a doomer

[chrome fog]

Unfortunately me wanna sleepy propy because got night shift for THREE DAYS IN ROW

[dim minnow]

man, I really gotta do Avalon on Legend three times

[real ingot]

Last thing we know he did was say we're all doomed

[dim minnow]

and it is known that he supports Dead Orbit

[real ingot]

I do like the hopelessness they've been building up in the background of LF's seasons

[dim minnow]

we're gonna have our Lightfall, just you wait

[ember storm]

that was just a desperate "flinging ourselves at them and hoping it works" by the sol divisive

which itself is still operating ok

the vex collective is also just doing fine

basically just hunkering down until the whole witness situation is dealt with

there's a reason they're the literal first thing we're going to be facing post-FS

the moment the coast is clear they're going into overdrive

[blazing wasp]

The vex is like the 3rd party squad in fortnite

[empty fern]

The back burner in a bbq party with the desserts

[tender cove]

So what is the Vex's ultimate goal anyways? Make everything of their kind or perhaps merge themselves into one big single Vex entity?

[empty fern]

Pretty much

Make pattern keep going

[tender cove]

Wonder how other races will come into play in such a scenario.

[empty fern]

Well, there’s only 2 options,

Live or die

[tender cove]

Then all organics must be against the Vex...on paper.

[empty fern]

Sure

[fiery copper]

Paper is also organic, yes

[tender cove]

[blazing wasp]

Ever played plague inc

[empty fern]

[tender cove]

Yeah I played it a long time ago

[chrome fog]

Vex are essentially playing plague Inc with themselves as the virus and the universe as, well, the globe

[fiery copper]

And brother, they already infected Greenland

[ember storm]

impossible

[chrome fog]

Madagascar’s been holding out tho

[blazing wasp]

Yeah that's what the vex are playing

Except the killing part isn't needed

[ember storm]

it’s funny

[cinder falcon]

dont know if it counts as lore but are the ships in the sky above the last city friendly or enemies?

[empty fern]

Friendly

[trim grotto]

They're our allies. House Light, the Cabal Ascendancy, the Awoken, and the forces of the City itself.

[empty fern]

You better hope they are

[cinder falcon]

alright thanks. thought they were ships from the pyramid and wondered why they didnt bombard the city

[empty fern]

Wonder what next season could be, what witch will lead into or will it be something different?

[tawdry mauve]

cabal / fallen season

just like defiance

100%

[empty fern]

Oh no

More awoken gear

Who knows, since it’s the final season of its kind it could have a much much larger permanent effect then “Amanda dead”

[tawdry mauve]

i didnt say awoken

but alright

[smoky rose]

Okay so seasonal lore book entry this week is very interesting

||Savathun says that there is an "heirloom" and that Mara will be pissed if she figures it out, and if we try to take it by force, to give it to Caiatl.||

This is in the "contingency plans" chapter of the Rites of Passage lore book

[twilit nymph]

Part the mist. Does anyone have a clue of what that means

I'm in the imbaru engine and I finished the chests it came up with a quest saying "part the mist"

I looked it up online and it loaded and exercpt basically saying that it means breaking the bridge between reality and imagination (which relates to savathuns antiques)

I've searched every single pixel in the room found nothing but a door that requires arcana of strength

[blazing wasp]

We don't and that's the point

[empty fern]

Very imbaru of you uke

[chrome fog]

Part the Mist = Learn/Reveal the Truth, but in fancy colorful language

Something something understanding and confusion contribute to the Imbaru engine

[twilit nymph]

Ahhhhh ok

[ember storm]

do you think strand could be used for flossing

[velvet flax]

You need to get a new opaque card to open that door

You can find it in the rally flag room after the Labyrinth, turn right as you enter that area and its sort of hidden behind a wall

[devout vine]

Literally rushed over after this week's story, what did you guys think?

Personally, I actually think Eris is gonna try her cunning against savathun and revive her anyway, pit us against her and with her death....tithe her power to Eris

Thus allowing sufficient strength to combat Xivu

[real ingot]

which labyrinth was this?

[jagged badge]

Savathûn’s Spire. It’s the area in between second encounter and boss encounter

[real ingot]

thank you

[worldly river]

Honestly I could totally see that

Though idk if a Lightbearer "death" counts properly for tithing

[devout vine]

But the crazy part of my theory is that Tithing from Savathun's Death would follow one of her other contingencies

Mainly about the 15th wish I'm speculating....
Involving a possible ahamkara egg

That's my theory

[worldly river]

Okay now we might be reaching a bit, but who knows

[devout vine]

The wish hasn't been found yet...
Savathuns bag of tricks is vast, she even made Immaru keep record of her contingency plans

Who's to say it couldn't be possible of such a trick to be played?

And it's poetic, since Eris was part of the Great Hunt

[worldly river]

I genuinely don't think the 15th Wish is a thing anymore, last Arcana aside

[devout vine]

I'm gonna stand by this theory until it all unfolds, I hope it is true.....
One of the most dastardly tricks to be concocted yet again

It's so exciting when a new trick is played

[worldly river]

I'm just unsure how normal Lightbearer deaths count for tithing, part of me wants to say yes because of Xivu coming around to the concept of resurrection, but that's also because her tithing is simply based on acts of War
That being said Eris embodies Vengeance, and if kicking the shit out of a Lightbearer counts for War then kicking the shit out of Savathun specifically should count for Vengeance

[devout vine]

It would work technically...
The sword logic is fairly straightforward and doesn't require a multitude of conditions, simply a survival of the fittest....

Savathun is an object of Eris' vengeance too so killing and resurrecting her would count to the tithes

[ember storm]

eris said crucible kills grant tithing

[real ingot]

15th wish is a gameplay only thing

[reef pelican]

The 15th wish is when we killed riven and she corrupted the dreaming city

[merry olive]

do we know what the "heirloom" mentioned in rites of passage 6 is?

[real ingot]

Can't recall anything

I'm going through Ishtar to see rn

but I haven't seen anything about it

unless it ends up being the Crown of Sorrow and it was an alternate plan

[merry olive]

ah
i could see it being the crown

[real ingot]

issue is the Crown is in our hands

unless it was intended for Sav to have it when she made the message

[merry olive]

oh yea true

[dim minnow]

the term "heirloom" implies that she got it from someone else previously

Osmium King would be a possibility if not for the fact that this "heirloom" has to be powerful

[slim elk]

I bet it's at the center of the imbaru engine

[empty fern]

I bet it’s the imbaru engine itself

[ember storm]

it’s a new car

[deft bison]

Hw many verses could actually beat lore accurate:

• Guardians
  -Rhulk
  -Witness

[blazing wasp]

Verses?

Like wh40k?

[little gorge]

how did sav know rasputin would die

[ember storm]

I mean I guessed it would happen she’s not special

[lavish tendon]

Hey Hi Hello! 👋

Question, anyone have any idea about this one meme(?) Guy

If I member right, he just fistfights you

And God?

[jagged badge]

I think you’ve invented a character lmao

[ember storm]

i dont

nothing about this rings a bell

[trim grotto]

I have no idea what this could possibly mean or refer to.

Could you elaborate, @lavish tendon ?

...wait. Do you mean... Rhulk?

[lavish tendon]

I unfortunately do not remember

It was passing information like a year ago

I think he's a "literally too angry to die" guy

And for some reason punched through the skeletal remains of something huge (I think the wish granting dragons)

[lavish tendon]

Yeah, that guy!

I think

Name sounds familiar as hell tgo

Tho*

[jagged badge]

I don’t know anything about Rhulk’s lore tbh so I’ll have to defer to Mael here

[lavish tendon]

I planned on looking him up

But forgot his name

[trim grotto]

I'll get back to you
Finishing up work

[lavish tendon]

Nah it's fine dude

Just needed his name

Will look him up on my own!

[trim grotto]

Honestly I'm shocked I guessed it correctly

[lavish tendon]

I'm shocked I didn't think of Hulk immediately when I saw Rhulk

[ember storm]

I mean

they’re not really similar

at all

[chrome fog]

The name and the enrage mechanic and dominating physical strength

[lavish tendon]

Specifically how Rhulk and Hulk rhymed for me

[grand sigil]

did eris really turn into a tiny hive god?

[blazing wasp]

Well, kinda

Yea

[grand sigil]

bruh

ngl we need a W I D E hive god eris morn emote

[trim grotto]

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/rhulk-disciple-of-the-witness-rhulk-kicked-ratio-destiny2-gif-25063797

[smoky bone]

Currently doing the missions with that when I tell you my jaw dropped for a minute

[grand sigil]

huh

[grand sigil]

that boss is the definition of kickboxing

[little gorge]

well not really kinda

xivu literally considers her her siter

[blazing wasp]

Well she's not really a "small" hive god

Just kinda

[empty fern]

New?

A new friend that has the same ideology?

[blazing wasp]

Huh

Huh?

[little gorge]

she is smaller in size than savathun, WAY smaller than oryx, and probably smaller than xivu ()

[empty fern]

Shhh

[blazing wasp]

Are you trying to make me join a politically driven cult because it sounds like it

[empty fern]

Wait we talking about actual hive sizes or relationship with the hive

[little gorge]

so she is in the literal sense of the word a "small" hive god

[ember storm]

little tiny hive god

[empty fern]

Puny hive god

[twilit nymph]

Yep just got it

[chrome fog]

She’s Hive God

Just unconventionally ascended

[fresh zephyr]

Is dares of eternity canon

[ember storm]

somewhat

[velvet belfry]

How could simmumah ur nokru have oryxs heart when its in the touch of malice

[chrome fog]

Canonically outside the events of the main game, you go in, fun times, get out

[chrome fog]

1. ToM was in our vaults which were destroyed in Red War, which was the explanation for so many exotics being missing but now we got a bunch of them back from legacy raids returning so we dunno; 2) not sure when Simmumah has Oryx’s Heart, she’s just there trying to rez him using a Ghost from what I can tell (though I’d appreciate if someone could fact check this for me)

[jagged badge]

Wdym?

[velvet belfry]

In the ritual his heart is one of the parts she has

[chrome fog]

It’s just one of the locations on the arena

[jagged badge]

It’s not. It’s his empty chest cavity lmao

[chrome fog]

That’s like saying she has his knee

[velvet belfry]

And how did nobody figure that they should like do something with his body

[chrome fog]

Because it fell into the center of a gas giant

And then we found out it went through said gas giant, but only recently

[ember storm]

realistically speaking it should’ve just gotten atomized by Saturn’s rings before it even got close

[chrome fog]

Since they’re rings of fast moving space debris that are almost the size of glaciers

[jagged badge]

Yeah there’s certainly a bit of convenience behind Oryx being on Titan, but who cares because it’s cool

I think we can ignore it in favour of it being a cooler outcome for the story

[chrome fog]

Smth smth, his unconscious willpower allowed his body to survive question mark

[velvet belfry]

I believe the lore for some random weapon kind of hints that his body was being monitored though

[chrome fog]

It’s also this willpower that’s keeping him dead because he believes so (we think?) but it’s al pretty vague as of the moment

Yeah, after GotD

That’s what the lore entries related to the dungeon detail

[jagged badge]

Not until we found it in Ghosts of the Deep

[empty fern]

Watch the next dungeon be oryx revived, lemme cook

[velvet belfry]

Thats crazy

[empty fern]

Yuh

[velvet belfry]

They just let this massive hive god float down to titan somehow

[velvet belfry]

W dungeon

[empty fern]

After kf? Probably?

Also

He got a lot smoother, either from game just scaling him down or erosion of body

[velvet belfry]

Why didn't he just like fade away

Whenever you kill a normal jive they just disappear

[jagged badge]

He’s built different

[velvet belfry]

I guess he is a literal god

[empty fern]

No he just built different

[real ingot]

A lot of foes leave bodies behind

Nez, Rhulk and Calus got tree’d

Taniks just has a corpse

Savathun was the same

[raven glen]

What yall think i don’t think witness will be final boss of final shape campaign maybe a discipline will be it cus wasn’t it confirmed he will be a raid boss then his final stand will be a seperate strike but doesn’t make sense maybe u gotta complete raid to do the strike or strike comes after compaign or maybe strike will become available a different time after confused how that gonna play out unless witness will be a three part phase

If witness has no final form ima cry

[jagged badge]

What makes you think the Witness will be the strike boss?

Bungie confirmed it’ll be the campaign boss and the raid boss

[raven glen]

I heard strike cus they wanted everyone to expirence one final fight

[jagged badge]

So…the campaign then?

[wise violet]

Does anyone what variations there are for hive knights and wizards for each brood?

[dim minnow]

in terms of weaponry, there are Knights that use boomers, the solar guns, and swords

Wizards don't really change up their arsenal unless they are more unique boss variants

[wise violet]

Appearance?

[dim minnow]

there are several variations in appearance even for general knight and wizard units

like individual broods

D1 had several of them

[ember storm]

lately the big differences are between the hidden swarm, Xivu’s brood, and the Lucent brood

[dim minnow]

not sure I would consider the general D2 Hive Xivu's

at least not HER brood

[ember storm]

the only hive that look like that we fight currently are hers

I don’t count the ones in the dreaming city

[real ingot]

If they wanted everyone to experience it they'd do campaign

after Xol I doubt they'll ever do a strike as the end of a campaign

[dim minnow]

Xivu did kind of take over the Dreamtown Hive

back in Hunt

[tulip knoll]

What happens if eris ends up killing everyone to fuel tithes

Afterwards

Doubt it happens

But maybe there’s a loop hole

[trim grotto]

Then we... would be dead?

[tulip knoll]

But the lore segment doesn’t specify what happens to us specifically

Doesn’t mention if our ghost gets offed

[trim grotto]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say to be honest.

[tulip knoll]

I’m theorizing…

[real ingot]

They're referring to one of Savathun's contingency plans

[trim grotto]

I assume if it refers to a Guardian being dead then the Ghost would be as well

[mystic fern]

Why don’t Guardians like Shaxx or Saladin ever fight on the front lines like we saw Ikora do in WQ

[dim minnow]

Saladin kept mainly to the Iron Temple

Shaxx remains in charge of the Crucible

though Shaxx did get involved in the Red War

and Saladin is now part of Caiatl's war council

[slim elk]

Admittedly
It's pretty much nonsensical why don't see Saint backing us up

Man would practically leap at the chance to join in our carnage

[dim minnow]

Saint does actually get involved from time to time

end of Splicer, all throughout Lost

Osiris is probably the main reason he keeps to the Tower

[frigid sparrow]

immaru doesn't like the thought of reviving savathun?

so... what's stopping him from just not doing that?

what, we destroy him? we still lose since we don't have savathun, it's a lose-lose situation at that point because immaru either goes nuh-uh and continues leading the lucent brood or we kill him and permakill savathun

he gets to beneft from us getting xivu off his back while continuing whatever he's got planned for the lucent hive

[real ingot]

He doesn't want to die

[frigid sparrow]

he says that if things get hairy he can leave so presumably he has an actual capability to fuck off

[real ingot]

We can still kill him

[frigid sparrow]

considering we hadn't met with him for over a year it's safe to assume he can and will leave without being threatened

we don't have a ghost bomb on him and we aren't keeping him caged or anything like that

plus, again, us killing him means no savathun

[dim minnow]

I think the only thing keeping him on board is his loyalty to Savathun

and I use the term "loyalty" loosely

[frigid sparrow]

I mean, even the post-dialogue box mentions his surprising disloyalty

he likes being the leader and he doesn't have much to gain from savathun except for anything she'd also hidden from him, and at that point, he's lost what he enjoys unless he can somehow convince savvy to let him keep doing what he's doing

and if anyone told her about what he said if he happened to revive her? lol

[wraith pagoda]

"Hold my sword. I'm going in there " - Shaxx

[torpid flint]

Almost like her ghost is a mirror of her lol

[nocturne holly]

Random, but I was listening to this song that keeps coming up on my Mastodon feed, and I imagined it in the context of them listening to it in the lunar colony as they go insane...
https://soundcloud.com/dgarmusic/its-always-monday-on-the-moon

[chrome fog]

There's a Dark Futures entry for that; not to mention how improbable that is because that's the big constant for the seasonal story, trusting Eris to come out unscathed and be a big help in our campaign against Xivu

[chrome fog]

Considering how helpful he became after this part of the season intro, I think he's very much inclined to help us should he not want to die
https://youtu.be/exktzVZvzU8?si=uiKiShtOzXPShTkD&t=47

(hopefully that links to the timestamp)

[nocturne holly]

This lends credence to my interpretation that the Hive are actually multiple species which were twisted into those forms by worm magic...

[dim minnow]

are you saying that the term "Hive" is meant to be more a general term to someone twisted by the Witness' power, or are you literally saying that the Hive we fight are not a sigle species?

in my opinion, the former is an acceptable idea, but the latter is a no

[chrome fog]

The Hive themselves dominated the endlessly varied life on their home planet Fundament once they made the deal with the Worm Gods

[trim grotto]

How does that theory handle the earliest entries of the Books of Sorrow?

[jagged badge]

Not to mention, Witch Queen’s campaign too

[ember storm]

cabal are already a multi-species race

hive don't need that

we know what they are

darkness-mutated/evolved krill

at their base level they're all the same

[tulip knoll]

That’s the thing, I find it improbable that, that specific contingency will ever come to fruition

But I could be overthinking, but that little bit there being thrown out there maybe it’s just to spice up the build up for next weeks entry

Of the story

I don’t know. Still concerning, this whole season has been a dark future teaser to the maximum

Even though it’s improbable

[ember storm]

I feel like that’s sort of the point though

people have always been going on about “ooh Eris is secretly evil!!!” for her entire existence

even though she’s been on a very positive character arc that started with dark below

[blazing wasp]

Ingame and outside it

[fiery copper]

Eris turned evil in Dark Future because she didn't get therapy and the nightmares on the moon drove her insane.

I know Shadowkeep sucked but like cmon that was the entire point of the campaign

[jagged badge]

More so the post-campaign quest

[opaque bobcat]

I like dark future

Dark future good

[ember storm]

only good part is kratos zavala

[real ingot]

Dark Future hater here

Fuck dark future

[ember storm]

real ^

[jagged badge]

You and Sars would get on then

[ember storm]

it's like chronicon but worse

because chronicon is actual fanfic and owns it

[real ingot]

I only get along with people who’s among us win rates are 100% like mine

[jagged badge]

I’m so shit at Among Us

[real ingot]

When next Cryptarchy among us Temp

[jagged badge]

Who knows, I just join when other people organise it

[real ingot]

Yeah fair

[ember storm]

i used to grind among us

[real ingot]

I’m still waiting

[real ingot]

Based

[trim grotto]

did you see my famous clip of Bushman

[real ingot]

No but do you have an 100% win rate in cryptarchy among us?

Also I need sleep

[trim grotto]

actually i think i do

[echo fjord]

why dont hive ghosts explode like sundance (the wave of light when she got sniped)

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny2the-witch-queen-hive-ghost-crush-gif-23101368

not shot by a devourer bullet

[jagged badge]

Accessibility

[ember storm]

and completely atomized

sundance was literally just exploded

[echo fjord]

[ember storm]

hive ghosts we just crush the center

clean and concise

[jagged badge]

Wouldn’t be a very user-friendly game to flashbang you directly in the face every time you do something you have to do

[ember storm]

not THE UNMATCHED POWER OF THE SUN

[echo fjord]

itd be fire tho

i wish bungie would let us shoot the hive ghost

to kill

[jagged badge]

Yeah, no

[chrome fog]

Well, that's simply an possibility were Eris to become a Hive God, which she is right now but is not the trajectory she is taking. As she and many others believe, she's not on that road even if she skirts close to that future

[empty fern]

I haven’t looked yet, what’s pyrogales lore? What it relate to?

[worldly river]

It's just Shaxx watching a Crucible match

He starts getting anxious thinking about the Witness and the state of things and then he sees a Titan running a new Exotic he hasn't seen before (these ones) who makes a huge play and he gets excited and muses that these kind of triumphant moments are why he started the Crucible and a good distraction from current events

[empty fern]

Nice

Very wholesome

[rich veldt]

its not like every gun would work, and it would probably be disabled more then enabled

[nocturne holly]

Actually, what we have now is pretty anticlimactic. I would definitely like to see a finisher where the screen fills with light as we destroy an aspect of the life God itself. Maybe have it blast back any nearby enemies, possibly even allies.

It would really add to the effect of killing a hive guardian.

(and speaking of, I would like more stories about what it's like for those ghosts to work with Hive guardians)

[jagged badge]

Yeah, no

[chrome fog]

How??? Would that work? It’s just a Flashbang finisher, not sure a lot of people would get it

Also imagine getting Flashbang every time you killed a hive ghost

[empty fern]

Wonder if it would be like when you enter the water effect

[analog torrent]

why are all the pvp vendors titans
from a lore perspective I get why Hunters wouldn't announce but wouldn't Warlocks want to run it to analyze Guardian maneuvers or whatever? Was it just sheer chance that it ended with titans running the show?

[echo fjord]

it makes sense

both saladin and shaxx were at twilight

now they "train" new lights

plus remember

hunters scattered after cayde died

im pretty sure

dont know if they came back after arrivals

warlocks

theyre there

[fresh zephyr]

Guardians When any bosses:

[ember storm]

don't get it

[fresh zephyr]

The bosses do

[analog torrent]

Were there any Awoken Iron Lords? I know of two Exo Iron Lords (Felwinter and Ashraven/Tinasha-3) but other than that I've always assumed the rest of the main gang (Perun, Gheleon, Radegast, Saladin, Efrideet, Jolder, Skorri, Timur, Silimar) were human
Is the timeframe even right for there to be Awoken Iron Lords?

[real ingot]

No they don’t

There aren’t any button combos

It’s a fucking shooter

[fresh zephyr]

It's a joke bro. This is what we do to every destiny boss and miniboss when we see em

[ember storm]

Zavala personally training under Saladin, idk you tell me

[fresh zephyr]

not the command inputs tho

would be fun if we did em

[analog torrent]

I thought he didn't count

*as an Iron Lord

[empty fern]

I guess he kinda counted

Then he split off

[ember storm]

still a perfect example of awoken existing in the timeframe?

[outer dragon]

Nope and the lore of Tommy's Matchbook shows that most hunters are avoiding the City, at least overtly

[fresh zephyr]

Ever since Cayde's and Andal's death, they have good reason to.

[empty fern]

Deth

[outer dragon]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/tommys-matchbook?highlight=TOMMY'S+MATCHBOOK

Tommy cocked his shell. "Drifter must have the Praxics working overtime.
Since Cayde died—"
Ghost drew a long knife across the back of his armored fist. It sang coldly.
"—every single Hunter worth their salt is either out on a mission to save the world or spending their time away from the City. To avoid the Vanguard Dare."

[echo fjord]

me at the death of crow:

[fresh zephyr]

"Rattle em boys! Nyehehehehe!"

[grizzled zinc]

So how many times did shaxx beat the fuck out of felwinter

[analog torrent]

Explicitly listed?
first encounter: head knocked off
shattered temple
decapitation via knee
They were at Shaxx's place for a few weeks/a season

My guess would be somewhere in the double digits cause fuck are you supposed to do on a mountain for a season

[grizzled zinc]

Argue

“I call my mountain felwinter peak”

“You say that like i’m supposed to care”

[analog torrent]

Real

[analog torrent]

Relevant:

[grizzled zinc]

Exactly

Shaxx is the only good british person

[outer dragon]

Shaxx is the ultimate chad

[grizzled zinc]

I used to not like him

But now i think he’s awesome

All the titan characters excluding zavala, are my favourite characters

[outer dragon]

Saint is my favorite

Dude was such a menace that the Vex had to spend significant resources to finally trap and kill him then respected him enough to make a tomb for him

Wait

I just re-read the lore about Felwinter and Shaxx fighting

Ikora is name dropped that early in the lore. She fought Shaxx before Felwinter

[outer dragon]

Is there any lore on that actual fight or am i just crazy

[dim minnow]

not as far as I know, other than that Ikora won which made her the only known person who beat Shaxx legit

Cayde had to cheat with an illegally modded holdster and Shaxx pretty much let Sjur Eido kill him since he was so impressed.

[wind belfry]

lucky pants lore funni

[raven glen]

Curious do yall think ikora and cayde had a thing or something more friendly i always saw it as a sister brother thing or something like a cayde raised her type of thing ngl cus we see zavala well loss of his wife. Osiris and saint, and crow with amanda . Drifter and um eris in a way never really see our gaurdian close to anyone we must have zero rizz lmaooo. I always thought we be a favorite of our own ghost tbh

[dim minnow]

Cayde once referred to her and Zavala as "Mom and Dad"

though it was in the context of a joke

[chrome fog]

Booooooo

[dim minnow]

as in "mom and dad are fighting again"

[chrome fog]

There’s certainly a faint hint of yearning on Cayde’s part, but due to his Hunter nature as well as his paranoia, he never pursued anything further and kept the relationship at close friends/sibling-like

[trim grotto]

They were friends. Also, Ikora is far older than Cayde.

[dim minnow]

and Cayde is a lot less experienced as a Vanguard

Osiris was the only Warlock Vanguard before Ikora

and Zavala is either the 2nd or 3rd Titan Vanguard

I know Saint was the first, and maybe Saladin was the second

[trim grotto]

Just Saint and Zavala.

[real ingot]

Saladin was pretty much independent until the Siva crisis

[dim minnow]

I didn't remember if Saladin was ever a Vanguard or not, but I did know he was Zavala's mentor

[real ingot]

Vanguard became a thing after the Iron Lord reign or near the end of it

early city age I believe

[dim minnow]

yeah, early city age

Iron Lords fell pretty much not long after the wall was built

[analog torrent]

Is there an offline place to read lorebooks in other languages (ik lightgg has language options for items)? Not sure if the in-game lorebooks are available in other languages at all, I haven’t tried

[dim minnow]

offline as in not ingame?

[grand jungle]

Didn’t we go back in time to revive saint ?

[dim minnow]

not revive, we prevented his death

[grand jungle]

couldnt we do that with sagira

[real ingot]

Saint was in the Infinite Forest

so no

[dim minnow]

plus, we pretty much got rid of the Sundial

[blazing wasp]

Saint was a very unique case

[jagged badge]

Ikora is very likely older than Cayde

He definitely didn’t “raise her”

[trim grotto]

Uhm akshaully I already said thst

[jagged badge]

[analog torrent]

Yeah

[floral pilot]

You can read lore books in the d2 companion app. Although idk about them being available in other languages

[ember storm]

what’s the lore reason for me having tinnitus

[empty fern]

Shaxx kept yelling at you too much

[outer dragon]

The Sundial only worked because all of Saint's most important life incidents happened on Mercury or in the Vex Network connected to Mercury

Theoretically we could replicate the Sundial on the Moon but saving Osiris that way would completely change the story to this point

[ember storm]

what makes you say that

[outer dragon]

If Osiris wasn't almost beaten in the Pit he never would have been weak enough for Savathun to capture and mimic. The events of the end of Season of the Lost would have not happened. We wouldn't have Savathun's worm.

[ember storm]

“theoretically replicate the sundial on the moon”

there’s nothing suggesting that could happen at all

the sundial only worked on Mercury and with Saint because he was on Mercury and in the infinite forest

[outer dragon]

But we didn't just visit Saint in the Infinite Forest. The first mission of the season was to his first time on Mercury and was not in the Forest

There is significant Vex tech on the Moon, see the entrance to GoS, sure it isn't as Vex teraformed as Mercury but the outside chance of it being possible is there. But again, if it were done it would change the story drastically

[ember storm]

we could only use the sundial because it used the infinite forest as a gate

Nothing else works like it

without the forest there’s no way to enter the sundial

the sundial was basically just the key to the door

there’s only a vex gate connecting to the black garden on the moon, it can’t be used for anything else

[sleek nacelle]

If ur-Nokru succeeded in reviving Oryx, wouldn’t he not have his memory and stuff

[jagged badge]

Probably yeah

[analog torrent]

Update: With this chrome extension (https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/twwqd4/i_made_a_chrome_extension_to_translate/) you can read lore in other languages on ishtar

Companion app is goofy, there's no easy way to change your language on that

[chrome fog]

Oh neat, that’s genuinely wonderful

So far it’s only been sparsely translated across a handful of languages, as rough as auto translate might be it would at least expedite the process and be a useful tool

[analog torrent]

good news: it's not auto translate

Ishtar doesn't have language settings so the extension pulls the translated versions of the lore from the bungie api rather than using an auto translater

like the way lightgg does with its language settings

[chrome fog]

Actually fucking pog, that’s amazing g

[digital pivot]

what happens to the guardians body after thier die?

[trim grotto]

If they're not revived, it just... decays, I suppose. Like a normal body.

[digital pivot]

Oh so it just stays there

I was asking cause in game it always dissapears

[grizzled zinc]

Could a ghost animate an egyptian mummy? Lol

Even bones are enough for ghosts so i don’t see why not

King alexander guardian

[meager belfry]

I do like to imagine some historical figure is a guardian somewhere

Rosa Parks? Guardian

Napoleon?

Nebuchadnezzar II?

[dim minnow]

yes

in fact, there was an ancient woman who was rezzed

I can neevr remember where or when she came from

just that she first appeared in the WQ CE book

[grizzled zinc]

She was from egypt but iirc she wasn’t born there but was killed in a war there

Most ancient guardian thusfar

Lol i’d like to see a rezzed viking guardian one day who calls himsef draugr

[dim minnow]

well we do have a nordic Titan who is part of the Praxic order named Siegfried

[grizzled zinc]

Bring back thor bjornson as a guardian

Throw him at the witness, he’ll win

Have him armwrestle shaxx, he’ll- yeah he’ll probably lose shaxx is a fucking semitruck of a man

[umbral grove]

Backhanded felwinter like it was nothing, and he beheaded him while doing so

[grizzled zinc]

He fought felwinter for days, winning every time, no?

[umbral grove]

Idk any lore