📚lore-discussion

[dim minnow]

Ahsa dives into an ascendant dream. Cosmic language bathes her as she ventures—radio-songs and magnetic roars that bellow across space. She slips between worlds across great distances, breaches back into space to glide along the curvature of galaxies, chasing a distant point of Light. A solar opposite to that which Takes love.

perhaps Ahsa was chasing after the Traveler which is why she ended up here specifically

and it seems like she used Ascendant Plane travel for a lot of it

would make sense given her immense Dark power

[empty fern]

I see

[dim minnow]

also seems like she can travel through space

[empty fern]

Maybe she was the thing cow

I wonder

[dim minnow]

you mean the cow thing

[empty fern]

What was maras interaction with ahsa?

[dim minnow]

I don't see anything about that

[empty fern]

F

[worldly river]

Yeah I don't recall reading about any interaction between Mara and Ahsa

[empty fern]

Seasons so close but nothing

[light stratus]

When did the 3 people find the traveller

Was it in 2023

[dim minnow]

it is presumed that Ares 1 happens around current day

so maybe when D1 released

[light stratus]

Oh OK

[jagged badge]

Unknown. It’s generally around our timeline however there are key differences to the real world in that they manage this manned mission to Mars and that it’s an international mission and shit

[light stratus]

Also why was the traveller on Mars anyways

[dim minnow]

the Traveler was going around terraforming various planets and moons in Sol

we met it on Mars because we predicted it would be there based off of its previous movements

[light stratus]

Oh nice

[dim minnow]

it first visited two unnamed moons of Jupiter (maybe Ganymede and Callisto), then it visited Mercury, then Venus, and then Mars

[slim elk]

It was in the process of terraforming Io when the Collapse hit

[misty halo]

Ikora used 2 subclasses back to back with one being void and the other being arc, so you would assume guardians can switch when they want right?

If they can use them with little to no cooldown lore wise then why the hell didn’t Cayde just use void or arc

[trim grotto]

Because Cayde's a Gunslinger at heart. And Ikora is one of the most powerful Guardians to have existed.

[chrome fog]

There’s also the fact being able to do so requires great mastery; in fact, Ikora herself ranks in about the 90th percentile of Light users if I’m remembering correctly

Most guardians never master more than one, if they even do so

Not to deny Cayde’s abilities, but he could just be more comfortable as Gunslinger than the other classes

[empty fern]

He goofed

[chrome fog]

We was also a goofball ye; part of his charm

[empty fern]

Oof

[outer dragon]

Ikora is a hacker

She learned from the best

[ember storm]

it wasn't due to his subclass choice cayde jusy sucks at pve

he's a pvp one-trick and his only trick is cheating

[gentle geyser]

Cayde is absolutely a nighthawk user in pvp

[chrome fog]

No, he has his lucky pants

[devout vine]

And its not an illegally modded holster, they're just really lucky pants

[shadow warren]

If the lucky pants buff happened before cayde went to the prison

He’d still be here

[gentle geyser]

Cayde should’ve had 100 recovery

[shadow warren]

Just run invis

[devout vine]

Clearly never heard of Deadfall...
Would've done more damage and better higher output of damage to enemies from all sources

Pure skill issue...

Better fix up in final shape

[chrome fog]

Oh reminder: Shin ran the gauntlet in Crucible during his time leading the Shadows of Yor, all without any revive

[devout vine]

I know....
So cool, if only we could've gotten more cinematics from Shin or Razyl, at least we had the one from season of drifter

It's about time someone taught you respect, little man...

[muted hemlock]

So what exactly is the light, and why are there different powers for it?

[cunning island]

Who's the oldest living guardian? My guess is Drifter or Saladin but idk anything about lore

[real ingot]

unknown

[ember storm]

a paracausal force and one of the two fundamental components of the universe

it represents both life/creation and the physical aspects of them

[gentle geyser]

Basically its exactly what it sounds like

Light and Dark

[chrome fog]

Well not exactly, though on a physics theory level it is

In D1, we understood the Light and Darkness as good and bad, as these generally get typecasted as

Starting D2, maybe Forsaken, the exclusive dichotomy between the two sides begins to ebb, as we explore the use of Paracausality for harm, and said Paracausality not exactly being Dark in nature (Riven) (also this is just me extrapolating stuffs based on my very thin memory and I’m very exhausted)

Shadowkeep explores us delving into the Darkness a bit and understanding it better

And then from there on, we breakdown the barrier between Darkness and Light

[slim elk]

Witch Queen itself showed the negatives of the Light as well.
Revival of Savathun and all

[empty fern]

Very negative

[ember storm]

it was cool

[unreal tulip]

Has there been any cases noting of people learning/obsessed with the cabal or fallens power as did eris/Toland to the hive?

[chrome fog]

Mmmm not really

Mostly because they’re not magic

[meager belfry]

To humanity sure, that is negative, but to the light it couldn't care less. I also think the best way to view light and dark isn't its abilities, but by their wielders. Like a certain prerequisite that is universal to all things that must be met in order to be deemed worthy of its power

[chrome fog]

Save for the splicers

[ember storm]

cabal and fallen have no powers

[chrome fog]

Great point, Light and Darkness aren’t even sentient (save for Stasis but it’s in a weird grey area)

[unreal tulip]

I guess for cabal I meant psions

[misty halo]

The amount of Cayde slander here is insane

[ember storm]

you're either picked by a ghost or not

that's it

[chrome fog]

In what way

[ember storm]

no wielding light otherwise

[chrome fog]

Because I’m sure we all love Cayde, just know his flaws and love him despite them

[ember storm]

you can love cayde all you want but it is undeniable he wrote his own death certificate

and also its ultimately another reason to hate petra

[misty halo]

Shut

[trim grotto]

Cayde was a fun character. But early D2 had writing flaws which did not help out that era of Cayde.

plus then he rode a giant flaming ball to his death

[misty halo]

I would have joined him if given the option ong

[chrome fog]

You clearly haven’t paid attention to him

[unreal tulip]

What was the reason Cayde went to where he died again? It's been forever

[misty halo]

To stop the criminals from escaping

[trim grotto]

Prison of Elders? To stop the prison riot/break.

[ember storm]

he didnt want uldren and the scorn to escape

[meager belfry]

The risen met the "light prerequisite"

[chrome fog]

He was cocky and wanted to confront the escaped Scorn Barons without waiting for us or Petra

[ember storm]

criminals isnt really the term here

[misty halo]

They’re most wanted so it kinda is

[slim elk]

Cut a cable holding up a security control center as a "shortcut" down to where the Barons and Uldren were escaping

[ember storm]

again, no real prerequisite

the speaker did have contact but his whole litlle "bravery" speech was totally made up

a ghost either picks you up or you rot

end of story

[chrome fog]

Eeeeeh, you’re not wrong but the connotation of just calling them criminals with no elaboration, doesn’t paint a pretty picture

[meager belfry]

sure there is, or rhulk would have had a ghost if there wasnt

[misty halo]

Ghosts don’t just choose people

[chrome fog]

They… do. Kinda.

[ember storm]

1 rhulk would have to be dead

[misty halo]

The picture was never pretty

[ember storm]

2 rhulk was actively torturing and tearing apart the ghost piece by piece

declaring yourself worthy of the light is an automatic way to have the traveler say "fuck you" and never let it happen

[meager belfry]

ok fine, another instance tho, what about Savathun?

[ember storm]

immaru and savathun were plotting for god knows how long

[chrome fog]

Simmer; they were imprisoned for reasonable crimes, but to say that Cayde took action just because they’re “criminal scum” when there’s more nuance than just breaking imposed law by the Awoken

[ember storm]

you think the traveler just magically spawned a single ghost for savathun right then and there?

the two were in cahoots for a while

[slim elk]

The bit with Rhulk and the Ghost is pretty standard stuff
The unusual part is the Traveler self destructed the Ghost

It never does that when the Hive be torturing ghosts

[chrome fog]

Which reminder: only one round of Ghost creation

[ember storm]

if anything evidence seems to suggest its all about the mentality of the ghost

[chrome fog]

Because they weren’t going to harvest the Light in an usable way that Rhulk would’ve; it would be unauthorized access to the Traveler’s Light in a way it does not want, rather than just harvesting the Light as paracausal/ascendent energy or what have you

[ember storm]

we do know that guardians have their own unique "tones" of light, and ghosts are said to be frequencies in their own right

[meager belfry]

so the ghost was waiting for savathun to die for eons?

[ember storm]

no?

he was literally already called immaru and dressed up as a hive ghost

they were planning it since before Lost

[meager belfry]

oh well that explains it. Didnt play at that point

[ember storm]

there was the whole cutscene in WQ showing savathun dying right then and there

[chrome fog]

Mmm, Flappy might not be wrong? Maybe they could’ve met during the Dark Age or something? But also it really does feel like they only recently came up with this scheme as the Young Wolf rose to prominence

[peak coral]

also waltz whats the lore book with all the immaru funnies from this season

[ember storm]

also one of the WQ exotic glaives details Immaru immediately reminding savathun of who she is post-rez and leading her right to one of her most trust witches

[slim elk]

Yep, though its argueable because we see the Hive do acquire light harvested from Guardians
Savathuns Song back in the day made that abudantly clear

[peak coral]

im not findin it

[ember storm]

dunno haven't read it

[peak coral]

:(

[ember storm]

there's a lot of lore book this season

plus life has kinda been kicking my ass

can't remember anything

[peak coral]

:( wish u get better soon

[ember storm]

do not worry i will do an unhealthy amount of work this weekend and force myself through burnout

this has happened before and it will again

[chrome fog]

Waltz, ur probably correct in that it was only planned shortly prior to Lost, if at least before Season of the Hunt occurred?

[chrome fog]

Good luck and happy recovery

[ember storm]

i would like to say that as Osiris, Savathun seemed to be in sort of a panic

she was just going out and trying to find literally anything about ghosts she could

leads me to believe their meeting was fairly recent during BL

[slim elk]

The exact timing of Savathuns plans are weird.
It wasnt all that long she escaped before Witch Queen happened...
Yet she had the entire Lucent Hive set up in a week at most

[chrome fog]

That seems fair; it seems her plan to feed her worm by disguising herself as Osiris worked too well and went past her expectations

[ember storm]

she asked crow for some of spider's stash of shells, delved into the vanguard archives, and kept trying to chat up glint

[slim elk]

We also derailed her Endless Night plan by killing Quria the way we did

[ember storm]

even savathun was surprised

"Wait shit that boss was really that easy?"

[slim elk]

She was trying to use her cover and encouraging trying to catch it alive and got pissed Quria died

[ember storm]

seriously what was that

shoot a hydra and go shoot some minotaurs

[chrome fog]

There was more to that, with her realization that her worm was becoming insatiable, but yeah

[ember storm]

i'm of the opinion quria wasn't really important in its own right but i still expected more of a fight

it only started doing new stuff at the last damage phase

[slim elk]

Would be pretty funny if Quria was intentionally holding back as a way to screw with Savathun

[ember storm]

"just for the record i quit"

it's still funny to me that splicer only happened because quria was perfectly capable of interfacing with the vex network

and the vex knew that

and they literally did not care whatsoever

just because it gave them an opening into the city

because you have to imagine that a lot of vex would've started getting taken just for the sake of it

and the others would've watched it happen

and had no response at all

it's even stated previous that vex are capable of double-assimilating and transforming taken into vex no matter their original forms

but they didn't do that here

they just went along with it

[slim elk]

Savathun:Its not often I play the role of the fool

[ember storm]

savathun barely hanging on freaking out wondering how she's going to manage to pull the endless night off only for it to start without a hitch whatsoever

[slim elk]

Does seem like her initial plan was to have the coup get pulled off and thus have indirect control over the Guardians

[ember storm]

given how she still needed her worm removed i don't think that was the plan

lost hinged on the guardians aiding mara by recusing her techeuns and protecting the blind well for months on end

a successful insurrection and shakeup of management would definitely leave everything a mess structure wise

if not complete war between guardians and the factions

then xivu would just swoop in and claim savvy

[slim elk]

She defintely wanted a lot more chaos in the endgame there
I figure she wanted a figurehead in charge to make it way easier to deal with us later

[ember storm]

she just needed a good way to gtfo

i think quria just died a month or two sooner than she expected so she had to speed it up

[slim elk]

Remember:She did straight up say she miscaculated in the end of Witch Queen

[ember storm]

is that not referencing the fact we just gave her a mental breakdown and shot her moments prior?

[slim elk]

Yep. Miscalculated the odds of winning there and successfully kidnapping the traveler

[ember storm]

'

i am tired

[slim elk]

With this discussion also shows her plans were unraveling a bit before then with how Splicer played out

[real ingot]

Keep in mind Savathun has been against the Witness since the Collapse

[slim elk]

Wasnt the only time she "miscalculated"

[ember storm]

i just love the absurdity of savathun visiting earth and just finding some country man and saying "would you like to meet god"

also do we know when that takes places specifically

[slim elk]

would love to interrogate her and find out exactly what happened in the collapse+all her antics

[ember storm]

is it meant to be calling the traveler to sol or just during/after the collapse

probably mid collapse given all her other shenanigans

wait did the traveler create ghosts in the middle of space or back in earth's orbit?

[slim elk]

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-absolutely-no-idea-liz-lemon-tina-fey-30rock-i-have-no-idea-about-it-gif-21976533

The answer to all of that

[ember storm]

oh well

[real ingot]

Yeah all we know is it happened in the Earth area

[slim elk]

Bungie Despises giving out exact time figures or details

[ember storm]

i'm going to go to sleep listening to Journey (featuring Kronos Quartet) and bawl my eyes out

faretheewell

[slim elk]

We really should have a solid timeline in verse now thanks to Neomunas archives

But Bungies avoiding that like the plague

[ember storm]

too bad neomuna has such shit corruption and roots and they barely know their own history

[slim elk]

Nah, even with Esis insanity they would have a solid timeline of years after collapse

Heck, those logs also put the Fallens arrival to Sol at least a decade [likely more] after it all happened

[ember storm]

can't believe london existed for years after society's collapse

thank god Akileuks changed that

[slim elk]

Honestly? Probably would be a lot better if Lakshimi-Maya was behind Neomunas conspiracy

[chrome fog]

That’s true, but her plans from Splicer and Lost and whatnot would be reliant on uncovered information we would have to have learned, plus the aforementioned improvised nature of her escape from Osiris’ body

[ember storm]

your poor struggling survivor family barely able to raise crops in the wake of extinction seeing a bunch of crab people in ships made of garbage descend from the heavens:

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/worried-scared-oh-no-stop-it-fearful-gif-12534009

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-season-of-plunder-witch-queen-fallen-eliksni-gif-26555398

[slim elk]

The sheer hypocrisy behind Esis actions is a sight to behold lol

[ember storm]

look at them now

[slim elk]

Least Lakshmi would be consistent

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-fallen-captain-gif-26894237

house of wolves trailer goes hard btw

[slim elk]

waiting for when Taniks and Skolas get ghosts

Whatever ghost gets Taniks would defintely feel cheeky about it lol

[ember storm]

hope it’s a reversal on the glint situation where the ghost genuinely has zero clue and sees nothing wrong about it

[chrome fog]

Ghost who has been sight seeing outer rim of Solar System comes back and finds a funny dead corpse on moon, turns out its Taniks, Light Converted

Hmm

Question: can Scorn be dead-dead or are they eternally alive zombie style?

[light stratus]

Have any of yous heard of the super smash bros ultimate theme.
It weirdly reminds me of the story of destiny 2 for some reason

[chrome fog]

What, because it’s got an orchestra?

[light stratus]

No the lyrics

[chrome fog]

I mean, the game also has a conflict between Light and Dark sides, with ultimately both being equally not great choices to root for

Which is the only difference, as Destiny has both Light and Darkness as tools for which one can do good and evil with, irregardless of the what side of Paracausality their power comes from

Which, yeah that makes sense; the lyrics are probably more Solar leaning as it starts with “Colors weave into a spire of flame” but like you can probably liken it to the Light in general

[light stratus]

I have thought that for a bit and I wanted to say it

And it seems I'm canna right

[empty fern]

[light stratus]

?

[chrome fog]

I’ve never seen kinda spelled canna but it technically works

[idle raptor]

@trim grotto

I require your knowledge

throughout the entirety of destiny it is said that the vex only feel discomfort/disgust. however I heard there was one vex who genuinely had a grudge against us. a hydra of sorts?

do you know anything about this?

[trim grotto]

Uuuh let's see

Vex don't really feel emotion in the way we do but something like that sounds like... probably Quria or Panoptes, though I'm leaning towards Quria. It communicated with us via our HUD, and was rather rude.

[dim minnow]

the Vex do feel fear though

[trim grotto]

or an equivalent to it, yes

and respect, apparently

[velvet flax]

and the ability to do negotiations and hand out ultimatums (Aesop)

[ember storm]

very moody mind

[chrome fog]

In much the same way the Hive insist upon their expression of emotion through the perpetuity of their “Might makes Right” philosophy, the Vex somewhat insist upon their cold logical level-headedness when in fact they somewhat have an understanding of very simple emotional concepts

Though this itself is most likely a revelation unto themselves and to us

[ember storm]

i like the idea that vex are perfectly capable of feeling emotions but ordinarily just decide not to

[chrome fog]

They’re smart, but their so smart they’re emotionally dumb to the point of idiocy regarding ‘feelings’. That’d be a very fucking funny idea

[ember storm]

i rememeber a silly little theory back in early D1 days where the vex were trying to show their respect the same way we do through crucible, which is why they taunt after killing you

of course it's not particularly accurate, but it's still funny to me that the supposedly mindless and merciless race of biomachines still likes to "dance" after killing you

[blazing wasp]

"Vex tbagging is canon guys I swear"

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-goblin-dancing-vex-dancing-goblin-gif-17984806

[fresh zephyr]

Vex goofy ahh robots

What are the war cult?

[trim grotto]

The Future War Cult?

[fresh zephyr]

Yes

There's something about a prophecy?

[trim grotto]

oh they have a few of those
alright let me get my type on

[fresh zephyr]

I heard ikora dialogue about it and went "wait isn't that a shader"

[trim grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/typing-computer-twitter-gif-12385391

[ember storm]

as someone who enjoys seeing the pain of others i will now quickly type up a summary before mael's explanation can be completed

[chrome fog]

GO RACERS GO

[ember storm]

essentially, a group of people using advanced tech (derived from vex) to try and see into the future in the hopes of predicting oncoming disasters and wars before they happened

[fresh zephyr]

As someone that have a pridak siting on my shelf,I see this as an absolute win

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[fresh zephyr]

And there bad people?

[ember storm]

but after a healthy dose of savathun influence, lakshmi, the faction's leader, quickly turned from funky war-prophesier to literal fascist wanting to commit genocide

so suffice to say

they're not really around anymore

[chrome fog]

HA the timing

[fresh zephyr]

Mael you can stop now

[ember storm]

nah let him have this

[fresh zephyr]

Rest,my child.

https://tenor.com/view/anime-girl-cute-kawaii-wipe-tears-gif-17923623

Ayo he typing a thesis or something?

[ember storm]

if you wanna talk about a cool faction you should talk about lysander

[fresh zephyr]

Nani? The fuck's that?

[chrome fog]

He’s fairly knowledgeable, bigger internal reservoir of lore than most of us

[ember storm]

leader of the concordat, another faction from a long while ago

also attempted to overthrow the vanguard

guess how that turned out

[fresh zephyr]

He's the destiny lore archive

[fresh zephyr]

Ded

[ember storm]

difference is we don't know exactly what the concordat did and they have a cool green logo

so they're automatically better than fwc

[chrome fog]

Actually he’s quite close with the DLV channel owner, yes

[fresh zephyr]

I hope he put the knowledge he has on this game to his irl study's

Aight Mael seriously stop your typing to much
I dont wanna be the reason you loose your fingers

[ember storm]

you asked for this

[fresh zephyr]

Essay is prob a breeze for him

https://tenor.com/view/a-mimir-gif-21449019

Aight Ima take a nap while you type

Mael if your typing something this long,I aint reading it

[ember storm]

gonna go make some waffles

[fresh zephyr]

I can graduate high-school and he still won't finish typing

[blazing wasp]

Make sure to ping em when you're done byf

[trim grotto]

what
why
what

@sick yew discord is being mean to me

[fresh zephyr]

You deserve it

[sick yew]

One moment

[fresh zephyr]

I ask for a quick explanation and you right a thesis

Who let bro cooked?

[sick yew]

Ah, got autofiltered

[fresh zephyr]

I,I did.

[ember storm]

this is your fault

also hello alex

[sick yew]

@trim grotto screenshot it and send a pic of the text

That should work

[trim grotto]

discord is a strange beast

[ember storm]

i can contest it is filled to the brim with offensive material

[sick yew]

[ember storm]

do not let it pass

[fresh zephyr]

I stand by him

Don't let it

[ember storm]

no

[fresh zephyr]

It's so long it'll crash the whole server

I can assure you

[trim grotto]

[trim grotto]

out of curiosity, may I ask (even if it must be DM'd) what was even autofiltered?

[heavy vortex]

Large text, that’s why. Auto mod is 50/50 with that.

[trim grotto]

Oh, that's all? Hm

I was scouring it trying to figure out what word was considered bad haha

thanks Venny (:

[heavy vortex]

All good, nothing to worry about

[fresh zephyr]

So tldr
Future seing cult
Dollar store vex time travel machine
Eliksni racism

Aight got it

[trim grotto]

yeah basically

[fresh zephyr]

How exactly do you become a desciple of the witness?
Do you just dip yourself in The Witness's bath water for a few days or what?

[trim grotto]

Well we've only got a pool of two to work with properly

Rhulk was so angry and bloodthirsty that he literally slaughtered his entire planet and civilisation

[fresh zephyr]

Bro is just a sassy tall man

[trim grotto]

and Calus was so obsessive that he'd been heralding the coming of Darkness since before we first met him. Eventually, he sought out the being in the Darkness - the Witness, as it turned out - in person by preforming wild experiments with the Sol Anomalies and the shared mind of the Scorn.

[fresh zephyr]

The hell is Sol Anomalies?

[trim grotto]

When the celestial bodies within the Solar System were Taken, anomalies - black voids of sorts - were left behind in their wake.

Same size, same gravitational pull, but just... empty spaces.

Those bodies being Mars, Mercury, Titan, and Io.

[fresh zephyr]

Sir your describing a black hole

[trim grotto]

No, I am not.

[ember storm]

nope

[fresh zephyr]

Then how the fuck Mars and Titan came back?

[trim grotto]

A black hole has significantly greater gravitational pull - these are identical to that which they replaced.

[trim grotto]

Mars was, it seems, returned. As best we can tell, by Savathûn, by force.
Titan we're not clear on, but leading theories suggest the Macrocosm encounter of Root of Nightmares was involved.

[fresh zephyr]

A black hole is what happened when a star die and collapse into itself
Anomalies just dissappear?

[ember storm]

you get why it's called an anomaly right?

[trim grotto]

When the bodies returned, they replaced the anomalies, much as the anomalies replaced them in the first place.

[fresh zephyr]

Makes no fucking sense?

[ember storm]

it's not supposed to happen nor possible through ordinary means

[trim grotto]

It's Darkness, basically. A void of Darkness.

[fresh zephyr]

What caused it?

[ember storm]

an entire civilization condensed into one entity ripping planets and moons out of material space is different than a star dying

[ember storm]

witness

[trim grotto]

The Witness and the invasion of the Black Fleet.

[fresh zephyr]

Why?

[ember storm]

season of arrivals, the pyramid ships closed in and stole away things that were important to us

[trim grotto]

At first, we thought it was because they were valuable to us, and it was a sort of attack. Now, we believe it was so it could search through their histories and past, search for clues to lead it to the Veil.

[ember storm]

given context clues, Mars had the Spire, which clued the witness in to neomuna and the veil's whereabouts

titan was also housing Ahsa, an important ally against the Witness which it probably didn't want us interacting with

[fresh zephyr]

Aight so uh where the dreaming city is located in The Reef right?

[trim grotto]

The Reef, which is part of the asteroid belt of Sol.

It's built upon 4 Vesta

[fresh zephyr]

Understood

So another question,is Solar the truest manifestation of Light?

Because sun and life and yada yada

[trim grotto]

Not particularly, no.

The truest form of Light is... well, itself. Solar is just another form/manifestation.

[ember storm]

solar itself isn't relating to light

[fresh zephyr]

But it make sense

[ember storm]

as guardians we just form our light into elements we're already familiar with

solar, arc, and void just exist

the light isn't tied to it

the truest form of light is what the traveler does

[fresh zephyr]

Then the hell void is doing here?
When I think light a endless singularity of nothingness isn't the first thing I thought off

[ember storm]

big blasts of pure white energy, capable of creating life at the spot despite no good conditions, terraforming entire worlds, changing reality to fit people's needs

also warlock rifts basically

[trim grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXio7_g1g0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJyW0cK2pfE

Try these on for size

[echo fjord]

my question is

how did he get light in those containers

if hes not a guardian anymore

[fresh zephyr]

He still have light

He just have 0 revives now

[tawdry mauve]

no

[fresh zephyr]

But how the light manifest liek that?

[tawdry mauve]

osiris cannot use the light

in any capacity

[fresh zephyr]

Then why bro put himself in so much danger!?
My ass is impressed he's still alive

[tawdry mauve]

because he is willing to do whatever it takes

[trim grotto]

Simple enough - someone else manifested it, contained it, and Osiris acquired it.

Paracausal energy can and is piped in the Last City, for example

[fresh zephyr]

No as in,why it manifest as void of all things?

Emptyness isn't nothingness
The hell that means

Emptyness literally means nothingness

[trim grotto]

But it leaves behind a vacuum, which it itself a force

As for why?

I'm a Hunter, not a Warlock.

I'm sure someone like Lettuce would happily regale you with some concepts

[fresh zephyr]

And that vacuum is void?

[trim grotto]

Among other things, yes

[fresh zephyr]

And void is light?
But why?

[light stratus]

@chrome fog remember our conversation

[trim grotto]

No, but Light can manifest as such. It takes on that form.

In the same way that the nuclear force of the Sun (an aspect of Solar) isn't Light, but Light can take on that form

This is to say, Void and Void Light are different

It's why we, and enemies, have Void weaponry

[fresh zephyr]

So void is just a energy that mimics a singularity?

[trim grotto]

A singularity is... an aspect of Void

[light stratus]

@chrome fog
This is the part that reminds me of destiny 2
As fate spins a thread without end, New life draws its first breath. Blossoming in a soil reclaimed from the past, Where destiny holds fast. Here where we stand hand clenched in hand, Everyone caught in the struggle, This is the day we finally find our way stepping into our tomorrow.

[fresh zephyr]

Understood

That segways to my next question

Why some of our enemy have light empowered weapons

Like scorn crossbow or ogre eye laser?

[jagged badge]

They don’t

[jagged badge]

Which is precisely what is said here

[trim grotto]

I've been trying to explain this - Void, Solar, and Arc, are natural forces - they're not inherently Light

Light simply takes on those forms

[fresh zephyr]

But it inherited there properties?

[trim grotto]

Yes, when it takes those forms, it mimics their properties

With significantly more control, of course

Solar Light being able to scorch or heal, as opposed to just being a blaring indiscriminate ball of heat and death

[fresh zephyr]

OK so our enemies have lightning infused and fire weapons,that's nothing to crazy

But how did they infused a vacuum into there weapon?

[trim grotto]

Depends on the enemy, of course. Hive magic, Vex tech, so on.

[fresh zephyr]

Scorn have crossbows

[trim grotto]

Sure. There aren't always explanations.

[fresh zephyr]

It's also funny cause shrikers are dead masses so it make sense they can harness void

There litteral vacuums

[trim grotto]

Classic Hive

[fresh zephyr]

And how enemies have light oversheild?

[tawdry mauve]

segway 💀

[trim grotto]

Again, it isn't Light

[fresh zephyr]

So its just natural energy

Got it

[trim grotto]

Just an energy shield generated/infused with an element, yeah

[fresh zephyr]

Theoretically speaking we could get other manifestation of light in the future

But what else I wonder?

[trim grotto]

In theory, sure.

[fresh zephyr]

Aight so light just mimics natural energy to our beloved subclass
But darkness seems to do the same but on a more "specific" level

Stasis I assume mimics ice but isn't actually ice
Strand is space time power idk makes no sense

[trim grotto]

Not so much with Darkness. Strand is our manipulation of the Weave, a paracausal web of consciousness that connects sentient life.

As for Stasis, it's... entropy, in a way. Removing energy in the vicinity until it creates a perfect* crystal.

[fresh zephyr]

Why they make it complicated lol
Just say it's ice

[jagged badge]

Because that’s boring

[trim grotto]

Because it explicitly is not ice, and Bungie like complexity

[fresh zephyr]

Solar is fire and arc is electricity

[jagged badge]

Uh, no

They’re so much more than that

[fresh zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/nichijou-blank-stare-stare-anime-mio-naganohara-gif-24979431

[fresh zephyr]

Magic fire
Magic electricity

[jagged badge]

No

[trim grotto]

Solar delves into the concept of nuclear forces, for example

[fresh zephyr]

Nuclear is hot
Hot=heat
Heat+oxygen=fire

[trim grotto]

To be extremely reductionist, sure

[fresh zephyr]

So

We know the darkness subclass is opposite of our solar one
Solar:fire=stasis=ice
Void:nothing=Strand:everything
What is Arc representation the?

[trim grotto]

I wouldn't say that Strand is the opposite of Void by any means

[blazing wasp]

Iirc stasis is anti solar because we wanted it to, in like how it looks like

(Stasis isn't ice either but that's a entirely different topic)

[fresh zephyr]

Literally doesn't matter
As far as exterior appearance stasis is ice

[blazing wasp]

Well yeah but it's not anti solar

[blazing wasp]

That doesn't add up actually I'm mixing up

[fresh zephyr]

Also considering if you invert the colour of the light subclass you get the darkness subclass colour
Red=blue
Purple=green

[blazing wasp]

Yes, but darkness isn't the opposite of light in subclasses

[fresh zephyr]

If you invert a turquoise colour what colour you get?

[blazing wasp]

Big sadge isnt the opposite of a rock

[fresh zephyr]

Nah in concept it is

[blazing wasp]

No

[fresh zephyr]

Fire hot
Ice cold
Yah yah I know stasis isn't actually cold I know I know
But as far as us hooman concerned,"looks like ice,its cold."

[trim grotto]

Right, but how does "manipulating a web of consciousness" go to "power of the vacuum"

[fresh zephyr]

Void is the nothingness of space
While strand is everything that ties sentient beings together

[blazing wasp]

It's a stretch to call stasis and solar opposites, but a possible stretch I guess

Void and strand though

[fresh zephyr]

No?
Void and strand is the harder of the two to make a connection about
Stasis and Solar and atleast visually polar opposites

[blazing wasp]

Strand isn't "everything", not in concept, not in design, not in lore

[fresh zephyr]

It's ties all living beings?

[blazing wasp]

Ha, connection

[blazing wasp]

Thags a stretched definition from "Web of consciousness"

But... sure?

Man you're so good at stretching definitions and things it's like your brain is made out of rubber

I genuinely couldn't do that

[fresh zephyr]

I got titan syndrome

OK but let's think what a opposite of ark would be

What arc defines first of all?

[trim grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjEDQ0IlmAI

[blazing wasp]

Mael would know best but I believe its like... what binds atoms?

[trim grotto]

Strictly speaking I usually refer to Lettuce when it comes to the more complex natures of the elements

[fresh zephyr]

So Arc is instability

[trim grotto]

In a manner of speaking, yes

[fresh zephyr]

What element can we think is very stable as hell?

In a sense

[trim grotto]

Stasis, literally.

It's pure control.

[fresh zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-girl-panicking-scared-screaming-gif-18964383

Oh shit

Then...

[trim grotto]

Control is what defines the wielding of Stasis, much as a sort of... sense of free flow defines Strand.

[jagged badge]

Is most of their interpretations still intact after the Osiris stuff?

[trim grotto]

Osiris's explanations are quite heavily simplified for obvious reasons, but yes, generally speaking.

I'd have to actually ask Lettuce about it though

[fresh zephyr]

So Solar is creation and destruction

I...I can't think on an opposite

Solar is just a cycle of live

So we know the new subclass gonna be red (atleast as far as we know), but what can be the opposite of Solar and also red?

[shadow warren]

Didn’t bungie say they don’t have current plans for a new subclass

Something like that

[fresh zephyr]

They capping

They gonna UNO reverse us mark my words

[ember storm]

no

[chrome fog]

Solar, Arc, and Void are the fundamental forces of the universe but as expressed by Light. Solar harness the nuclear bonds of atoms and kinetic energy, Arc is the attractive forces which call molecules together, and Void is potential energy, the wells of gravitational potential

[chrome fog]

Ice if you constitute the H2O for anything and reduce it to the theoretically impossible 0 degrees kelvin, Absolute Zero relative to a portion of existence rather than in relation to the rest of reality (because it did, a great portion of the galaxy if not the entire galaxy and beyond would instantaneously freeze with the pit of kinetic energy that is an absolute zero molecule)

Also I might’ve biffed the interpretations, but we have links to lettuce’s posts regarding the nature of the Light subclasses

#📚lore-discussion message

(Also in pins)

[little gorge]

wait where

[ember storm]

we’re getting new light super content

that’s it

[outer dragon]

Do we have any examples of Pilgrim Guard equipment other than the Mark from D1?

[empty fern]

Prodogial and Saint helmet?

And maybe hardcase?

[torpid flint]

Warlock light subclasses get higher damage supers?????

Nova bomb is mid in comparison to everything else

[ember storm]

who hath

[outer dragon]

Nova just needs an exotic like Nighthawk, Curiass, Pyrogale

[hollow zealot]

what happened to the crystal thing that eris got from oryx's sword in the ttk campaign?

[ember storm]

it was immediately gifted to us and we used it to craft the exotic sword with shaxx's help

you got a choice between solar, void, and arc variants, which the "real" choice seems to be solar as that was the last time the sword was seen

[outer dragon]

I think it was bullshit that when he said "my armory is open" we didn't get ANY weapons like a free exotic or crucible drop

[chrome fog]

We getting discount Radiance with funny bird grenade

Also new Solar buddy aspect

Arc Hunter gets tornado boomerang and flying tornado aspect that synergies with the the rising staff strike aspect

Void Titan gets roaming shield aspect and cool arsenal

[outer dragon]

Twilight Arsenal LOOK cool
Does okay burst damage and the roaming axes are ass

[shadow warren]

Don’t quote me that’s definitely not misinfo I wanna spread lol

But I swear I heard that somewhere

And I thought it was from bungie

[chrome fog]

Whaaaaat, they look awesome, no matter how bad people say the damage is

Anything to juggle the first GotD boss

[real ingot]

If they have plans for another subclass it’s far in the future

They’ve said making a subclass takes 2 years

Or around that time

[smoky rose]

They said it took longer than a year

That was all

[dim minnow]

back then it took me a lot longer than it should of to figure that out

[low gyro]

I believe this is Joe saying in a PC gamer interview? He said they learned from lightfall about not shoehorning in a new subclass in a pivotal DLC storyline and just want people to focus on the story of the final shape

Unless you mean AFTER that then idk

[analog torrent]

does BN6777 mean anything

[ember storm]

what am i looking at

[analog torrent]

Crota waving to a proud Oryx as he leaves for college

[ember storm]

he fucking threw him into an open wound in space and never saw him again

[analog torrent]

Normal father and son things 😄

[empty fern]

Then got angry after we killed him, HYPOCRISY

[fiery copper]

Probably

[chrome fog]

Tbf he was angry we were kill stealing

[empty fern]

Oh yea

[wheat latch]

I was just chillin in the tower and i hear the line "it must have been hundreds of years ago, from before the traveler maybe" from a civilian i think, hasnt the traveler been with us for much longer?

[real ingot]

yes

[trim grotto]

Well, we don't have a defined time frame for the Dark Age or the Golden Age.

And it's technically correct either way

[golden wolf]

has there been any new lore for the sojourners camp? had a funky message from drifter there talking about hiding his light and his neighbour saying "I can't feel anything"

[trim grotto]

That was from Season of the Drifter, like three years ago

[chrome fog]

There’s a more in-depth account in the lore book “The Man with No Name”, it reveals that his neighbor died when an iron lord used the small town he was in as cover to eliminate the ruling Warlord

[tawdry mauve]

i mean yeah

oryx most definetely loved crota

and he was mad that not only he died but he lost that major tribute line with him

[muted hemlock]

So, why exactly did the traveler revive Savathûn?

[jagged badge]

It didn’t. Immaru did

[muted hemlock]

So she could give us knowledge?

[muted hemlock]

Who?

[jagged badge]

Savathûn’s Ghost

They met, before her death, and arranged it

[muted hemlock]

Ohhhhhhh

That makes much more sense

Thanks.!

[stable monolith]

Quick question: Since Cayde is "alive", does this mean he will reclaim the Vanguard Dare?

[trim grotto]

We do not have enough information on how Cayde will return. My theory, however, is that he cannot leave the Pale Heart, and will remain there as a guide and the destination vendor.

[stable monolith]

OK

[fiery oriole]

I still believe the veil is just the guardian afterlife

[jagged badge]

The Veil predates the existence of Guardians by eons and eons and eons

So that doesn’t make a lot of sense

[fiery oriole]

Forgot about that lol

[chrome fog]

For further clarification, the Veil is also essentially a giant Black Box for the entire universe, acting as a Cosmic Collective Conciousness

[ember storm]

big funny mushroom

[worldly river]

The new Immaru lore page seems like it finally calls back to a specific line of Ripe from Season of the Splicer that I often saw people dismissing
The line where she says "Now I reach as often as they do, and when they reach back, I am thankful. I speak with them. I seek their company. Their companionship. This is not pity, for I know pity. What is this—"
And then in this one, in reference to Immaru, it says "At least now he knew what the Witch Queen saw in the humans."

Granted this is followed up with "Maybe they would come around after all," because I think in his arrogance he sees something else, that we'd fall into the habits of the Hive, and he thinks that's Savathun's line of thinking too

Whereas I feel like Savathun sees not how we could become like them, but how they could become like us- seeing how the competitive spirit of Guardians resembles Sword Logic's philosophy but in a form that doesn't require so much destruction, or something like that

I think she might see a way the Hive could be better, instead of living a life of constant war that has, for one of her siblings, led to ruin, and will likely lead to the same for her other

[analog torrent]

Where can you find the lore page out-of-game where Immaru tells Shaxx he's a big fan? I tried Ishtar but I couldn't find it
"Rites of Passage - A Big Fan"

[jagged badge]

It’s probably still classified in the API

[analog torrent]

sadge

[peak coral]

it is

:((((

can anyone perhaps ss the pages

then send me

[analog torrent]

Where do I start if I want to read about

1. All the Shin Malphur lore, particularly his interactions with Drifter
2. All the Ana Bray lore, particularly how she rediscovered herself after being rezzed
3. All the Rasputin lore
   already hit up Grimoires 1 & 3, The Liar, and the Seraph Rasputin lorebook

[green cobalt]

it's BNG777, silly billy

[analog torrent]

I went to the Rites of Passage lorebook to find the Shaxx-Immaru interaction and instead I find Osiris and Saint cuddling

[analog torrent]

1-4

[peak coral]

:)))))

[analog torrent]

5-7

this image inspired me to go look for it https://steel-peach.tumblr.com/post/729000498241421312/bonding-lore-piece-rites-of-passage-a-big-fan

[outer dragon]

Immaru a PVP sweat confirmed

[analog torrent]

Where do I start if I want to read about

1. All the Shin Malphur lore, particularly his interactions with Drifter
2. All the Ana Bray lore, particularly how she rediscovered herself after being rezzed
3. All the Rasputin lore
   already hit up Grimoires 1 & 3, The Liar, and the Seraph Rasputin lorebook

[chrome fog]

Try Ishtar

Shin's got very slim pickings plus his supposed ghost's journal prior to dying doesn't explicitly connect the two

Ana's also just from cinematics, though entries where she appears have her confront the fact she's taken back up the legacy of her former life

And then Rasputin's definitely got enough entries cited in Ishtar to get all you need

[outer dragon]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/shin-malphur?highlight=Shin+Malphur

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/ana-bray?highlight=Ana+Bray

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/rasputin?highlight=Rasputin

[chrome fog]

Thanks H!

[remote sky]

is there a lore reason why raid boss encounters use white balls?

[ember storm]

I can’t think of any off the top of my head

what are you talking about

[outer dragon]

Gameplay

[ember storm]

genuinely don’t remember any raid bosses with white balls

[outer dragon]

The Toland orbs in KF?

[remote sky]

every raid has a floating white ball

[ember storm]

you’re asking why the taken stuff looks like taken?

c’mon

[remote sky]

when you get close, the encounter starts

[ember storm]

what are you talking about

[jagged badge]

No?

[ember storm]

the raid banner spot?

that’s a circle

[outer dragon]

I think they are talking about the Toland Orbs in KF

And the Chalice of Light in Crota

Not sure what other "balls" other than the Heart in LW but that isn't pure white amd has to be picked up

[real ingot]

Just Oryx

[remote sky]

there's one for atraks

[real ingot]

That’s an ether thing not a taken orb

[remote sky]

[jagged badge]

It’s also not white

It’s pink-purple

[outer dragon]

You a goober

[remote sky]

so are reed and the gang the trio that appear in like every cinematic

[ember storm]

reed is literally the titan who got sliced up in LF

so

ain't gonna be doing much appearing anymore

[remote sky]

I know

but isn't him and the gang the trio that stand as like examples of guardians when you're choosing the class? is the grey armor in ornaments their armor?

In fact, do we even know when they were rezzed?

[empty fern]

We talking about the ron balls?

[remote sky]

we were

[empty fern]

Damn, just missed it

But yea a lot of npc guardians are showed with white tier gear

Even ketabasis (Gilgamesh guardian)

[remote sky]

(except shaw with ahamkara for no reason)

[empty fern]

(He’s new in a different way )

[ember storm]

katabasis should've been wearing the shadow armor

[remote sky]

I hope they kill off shaw so that they have to remake the entirety of 'A Guardian Rises" and they make it so much shorter

[empty fern]

You want

An even shorter new player experience?

[ember storm]

cutscene and you're booted to orbit

there's the door

[remote sky]

no no
like
15-24 missions, tops

or, better yet, just remove it entirely when making a new guardian! the first guardian for every account has to go through it, but then just make it optional! yeaaahh!!

[remote sky]

anyway this

[ember storm]

i don't really get what you mean

when you create a guardian the choices are just your guardian

because that armor is the default D2 armor

[remote sky]

okay so Google is showing that they have.. entirely different armor

[ember storm]

it's on the boxart and what you wear when you boot up the red war for the first time

most people just assumed they'd be wearing trials gear

[remote sky]

yeah I thought frumious and noble constant were the gangs armor

[ember storm]

nah

boxart

[remote sky]

so I'm just dumb then

got it

yeah I'll take any more info about them

they seem pret-tee cool

[ember storm]

ok well fun fact

reed is pulling off a sick salami cosplay

[peak coral]

yeah he even has the opulent lookin ship

[remote sky]

I just understood this

why would say that

[outer dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/giggles-gif-26049387

[remote sky]

Does stranger ever get time to explain why she didn't have time to explain why she didn't have time to explain?

[real ingot]

bringing up that line is bannable

[remote sky]

anyway still

[chrome fog]

Reed and the trio only came in about Beyond Light, there's another trio from the original D1 commercials, plus a couple others

Watch the live action D1 commercial and then look at the Warlock that swan dives off a cliff in the Final Shape trailer

[lavish tendon]

Hey Hi Hello! 👋

Does anyone here happen to know the name of a ghost shell with the flavor text that

That's* essentially a documentary on Guardians randomly dancing on the tower by non guardians

Or a website that has these?

[trim grotto]

Well, the Ishtar Collective has pretty much all of the lore of Destiny in one place, with a small handful of exceptions.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net

Also, I think you're after this.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/electronica-shell

[lavish tendon]

Very good to know!

[lavish tendon]

Also, HELL YEAH, and thabk you

[trim grotto]

[lavish tendon]

I love that tidbit of lore

[chrome fog]

You might love Ghost Stories as well

My favorite entry
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/ghost-community-theater-presents

Also somberly has the transcript of Cayde’s funeral service

A veritably heartwarming and -breaking lore book

[dark trench]

whos the strongest worm god? ik xol is by far the weakest, but that’s all I know

[chrome fog]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Don't get much on them save for as the group themselves, not much info on them individually save for Xita, Akka, and Xol

[trim grotto]

That's all there is to know. We can't really rank the rest with what we know.
Unless you count Xita, the Mother Worm, but she was trapped for eons and then died, so...

[chrome fog]

Isn't there suggestion she isn't dead, just. resting after milennia on end powering a Rhulk's weapon?

[trim grotto]

Uh, no.

She's quite dead.

Savathûn's Worm: Worm Mother... though you sleep eternal, your role in grand symphony persists. Legacy will be carried best I can. 

Ghost: Okay, okay, that's enough. Moving on.```

[dim minnow]

worm gods seem to not really die

given their great mental attributes, maybe thei mind perseveres after they "die"

[trim grotto]

Much as an Ahamkara can transcend death in a way, yes, but her body is nonetheless dead.

[trim grotto]

Though that being said, it seems even Akka's converted corpse is finally dying a true, ultimate death.

[dim minnow]

maybe because we killed Golgoroth and thus prevented the Hive from feeding Akka the corrupted Light

according to Toland that was what they were doing

[worldly river]

Ian't the idea that they essentially retconned Shayura's fire team into being the OG trailer guys?

Well I guess the one with the Titan with the fuzzy collar is a separate one even thought he Warlock's armor looks super similar

Actually I guess there's another with a Titan in red/white with fuzzy color and a warlock with a one-eye helmet too

[remote sky]

Archie lore
Archie lore
Archie lore

gimme the pupper lore

[jagged badge]

The trailer Guardians aren’t exactly canon

Also we know that Shayura’s fireteam have worn different armour sets like the Trials armour iirc

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iii-legacy

And yet, sitting here in the shadow of his sacrifice, Ana finds that she wants to remember him by the one thing not built for war. A canine AI, created for no other purpose than companionship. One that has made a home for himself in the Tower, greeting everyone he meets on his daily walks.

In the end, Rasputin's legacy was not the war he waged, but the lives he sought to protect. The notion brings a smile to Ana's lips. It's what distinguished him from Xivu Arath. And Ana hopes that Sloane can realize the same holds true for her.

Ana looks to the Exo frame one last time before rising to her feet and pats the dog on his head. He happily wags his tail in response.

"Come on, Archie," she says as she reaches for her comms unit. "Let's go for a walk."```
Apart from the dog... existing? This is pretty much it.

[remote sky]

dissapointing.. I hope for more pets in the future.

but thank you.

[trim grotto]

do yourself a favour next time you're in a fireteam with one or two friends

pat the dog at the same time

[remote sky]

lol

wait
is Saturns' rings technically one of the nine? you guys did say they were space dust surrounding the planets

[real ingot]

Saturn is one of the nine

It’s dark matter and that kinda space dust

[empty fern]

You know what? I’m surprised someone hasn’t kept a log of all the cute relationship moments in lore yet

(Saint and Osiris being prime examples but I know there’s another couple and MORE)

[jagged badge]

That’s not exactly how the Nine works

They aren’t individually tied to particular planets, rather just generally tied to life in the Solar System

[empty fern]

The nine is the rain because a random npc in the tower said “the rian tastes funny these days”

[real ingot]

I recall each being tied to the celestial bodies in Sol weren’t they?

[jagged badge]

Not sure. Perhaps we need to consult Tenos

[real ingot]

Doesn’t help that we don’t get anything on the IX except every 12 years

[empty fern]

Tenos?

[real ingot]

@trim grotto

He might be sleeping

[jagged badge]

L bozo

[real ingot]

It is 11pm here

[trim grotto]

hello i am live

[jagged badge]

You am live!

[empty fern]

Lurking hermit

[real ingot]

Connection between the nine and the celestial bodies if it exists

[empty fern]

Mael is just chatgpt for the other lore nerds

[ember storm]

incorrect

[real ingot]

Lore community all hates each other

I have broken into Mael’s house many times to end him

And he has done the same

[jagged badge]

Aiat

[trim grotto]

While the Nine are the flesh of dust, the dust of worlds (and given consciousness due to life in the system), there's no confirmation that individual members of the Nine are linked to individual worlds

[empty fern]

Aha

Bozo

[trim grotto]

It is, however, a prevalent theory.

[empty fern]

Aw

[real ingot]

Right Marl has proved me wrong

Driving to his place in morning

[trim grotto]

Many suggest the Almighty's consumption of Mercury as fuel is what the lore book Dust meant by the member of the Nine (who allowed the Red Legion invasion) being punished

[jagged badge]

Nom nom nom

Tasty Mercury

[trim grotto]

Whether you believe this or the prior theories are accurate is really up to individual interpretation

Personally I do not believe either

[muted hemlock]

So how exactly did Savathûn lure the ghosts in to use them for nefarious purposes?

[trim grotto]

That's actually not entirely clear. They felt as though they were called there. By the Traveler? Savathûn and the Wellspring? It's still in the realm of theory.

[muted hemlock]

And as for Fynch? The rouge ghost?

I was under the impression Savathûn lured them there then corrupted them. The ghosts.

[trim grotto]

Fynch also felt called there. He's our main "source" on that. One moment.

I'm not what you'd call a believer, not after the Red War. Not after the Tangled Shore. Not after a lifetime of never mattering just 'cause I wasn't half of someone else's whole. But that… that made me feel again.

And then I saw him—what was left of him—lying there. Just this corpse, dead maybe, oh, a hundred years. It's my Knight. I look, and I KNOW he's mine. Like hearing a song the first time, and it's already stuck in your head. And in that moment, I think something… something good in me died.```

[jagged badge]

Just checking, how do you mean “corrupted”?

[ember storm]

it’s not like a magic thing

Savathun just took advantage of a bunch of people who were jaded and lost all hope

they spent over a thousand years feeling worthless for not fulfilling their “purpose” and then Savathun comes along promising she’s going to give it to them

also she held them at gunpoint

[jagged badge]

Yeah that’s what I want to clarify. The Hive Ghosts are with the Hive because they were convinced to be or because they were weirdos who already wanted to be

[trim grotto]

anyway i'm gonna go play XCOM for a while have fun with the lore ping me if you want meeee

[empty fern]

Oh no the question bomber

[muted hemlock]

Someone said they were corrupted.

[ember storm]

the WQ CE lore also briefly mentions there was always ghosts who sympathized with the hive feeling they were just dealt the wrong hand

[muted hemlock]

Oh frack off

I’m bored

[ember storm]

someone lied

[muted hemlock]

And waiting for my bus

[empty fern]

Still?

[muted hemlock]

Just to be clear, the red war took place during destiny 1?

[ember storm]

no

[empty fern]

Nah

[ember storm]

it was the start of destiny 2

[low gyro]

The red war is vanilla d2

[muted hemlock]

Well it comes in 1 hour to 1 hour thirty minutes.

[muted hemlock]

Ah

[ember storm]

like that’s literally what the d2 campaign was

the red war

[low gyro]

Whole thing with ghaul and stuff

[muted hemlock]

Also who’s the hunter vanguard?

[ember storm]

it’s why all the vanilla gear has the red legion icon

[empty fern]

The end of d1 was rise of iron and maybe age of stuff

[ember storm]

nobody

Cayde died and the position hasn’t been filled

[muted hemlock]

I saw some idiot say the cabal leader guy was

And I was like

[empty fern]

Caitl?

[ember storm]

because no hunter wants to do it

[muted hemlock]

What?

[empty fern]

Or ghaul

[muted hemlock]

Big fat guy that loves gold

[empty fern]

Calus

[ember storm]

I think the people you’re talking to are just fucking with you honestly

[empty fern]

Why what

[muted hemlock]

That one

[muted hemlock]

Well I saw it online

[empty fern]

Dj who have you been listening to

[muted hemlock]

The internet

[trim grotto]

Sorry, the exiled Cabal ex-Emperor?

[muted hemlock]

BRO SOMONE SAID ERIS SHOULD BE HUNTER

[empty fern]

We are the internet

[trim grotto]

SHE IS A HUNTER

[empty fern]

She HAS LUCKY RASBERRY

[muted hemlock]

Her ghost is dead

Ohhhhhhh

[trim grotto]

She lost her Light in the Hellmouth when her Ghost died, but she was a Hunter.

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-2-season-of-the-witch-eris-hive-god-ahamkara-gif-17608054979777715070

Look at that beaded chest piece

[muted hemlock]

Just gonna snag that real quick

[empty fern]

Mf destiny 2 eris gifs

[muted hemlock]

Looks of Asian descent

[trim grotto]

Sorry I'm still reeling over the idea that someone told you Emperor Calus was the Hunter Vanguard?

that's mind boggling on so many levels

[muted hemlock]

I’m aware

As far as I know he doesn’t even have a ghost

right?

[trim grotto]

Of course not

[muted hemlock]

RIGHT?

[empty fern]

Well

[muted hemlock]

Good

[trim grotto]

He's a herald of Darkness, and a Cabal

[empty fern]

He had Gilgamesh

[muted hemlock]

Lol imagine if the witness had a ghost

I’m just glad I have Jerry

[trim grotto]

[empty fern]

Kamakazed by the traveler when rhulk took it

[empty fern]

Lemme cook

[muted hemlock]

Really?

[empty fern]

Think so

[trim grotto]

You've got the wrong ingredients

[empty fern]

It’s exotic

[muted hemlock]

THE WINTESS HAD A GHOST

[trim grotto]

No

Halt

[empty fern]

[muted hemlock]

NO

IM CONFUSED NOW

[empty fern]

I am the internet listen to meeeee

[muted hemlock]

Not again

NEVER AGAIN

pulls out shotgun

[ember storm]

Rhulk found a hive ghost and just started torturing it while going on an egotistical tangent about how he’s more than worthy to wield the light

[muted hemlock]

Which brings my second question

[trim grotto]

A lost Ghost was found by Rhulk, who began to disassemble it and wanted to steal its Light. The Traveler told him to stick it, and then blew up the Ghost so that he couldn't claim it.

[ember storm]

traveler blew the ghost up and Rhulk got pissy and left

[empty fern]

My claim was close enough

[muted hemlock]

Are ghosts able to leave their current guardian to go to someone else?

[empty fern]

Probably, see ghost stories?

[muted hemlock]

Nope

[empty fern]

Go read them

[muted hemlock]

I only play two hours a day on the weekdays

Stupid school

[ember storm]

no

[empty fern]

We have Destiny app, with lore books

[trim grotto]

We've never seen any actual evidence of this happening, and there is only a singular entry that suggests it is plausible. All other evidence, albeit largely circumstantial, suggests otherwise.

[muted hemlock]

Oh yeah I forgot about the app

[trim grotto]

TL;DR, probably not.

[empty fern]

Wait

[muted hemlock]

Omg I just thought of this

The witness is like the avatar

[ember storm]

don’t get it

[trim grotto]

which one

[empty fern]

Since ghost are corruptible (like Gilgamesh) doesn’t that mean any ghost can change their mind on their guardian? If influence is strong enough

[ember storm]

isn’t it (airbender) just a lineage thing

[muted hemlock]

This it?

[muted hemlock]

Any

[empty fern]

Yea

[muted hemlock]

He can bend matter

[ember storm]

wasn’t Gilgamesh more just suicidal than anything else

[trim grotto]

Sure, they can just leave if they want. But we've never seen one choose a new Guardian.

[empty fern]

He uses super technology

[empty fern]

Was he?

[muted hemlock]

Is there any pictures of what eris looked like before the whole “ thing. “ ?

[trim grotto]

Actually, no.

[muted hemlock]

Are you guys talking about eternals?

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/eris-morn-stasis-beyond-light-darkness-tsfnami-gif-19025368

[trim grotto]

Well, in universe yes, but literally, no.

In universe, there are baby pics.

[muted hemlock]

Oh so she alswsys looked like that

Got it

[ember storm]

the “whole thing” would be before she’s hive kinning

[ember storm]

no

[empty fern]

Ohhh

[trim grotto]

Not until the Hellmouth.

[ember storm]

she was just a normal guardian once

without three eyes and armor made of old leather and chitin

[empty fern]

Wait hive from the hellmouth or hive from this season

[muted hemlock]

Well what did she look like

[trim grotto]

This happened shortly after losing her Light

[muted hemlock]

Tell me

[ember storm]

a normal hunter

with a normal human face

not particularly standout

[muted hemlock]

I NEED PICTURES

[trim grotto]

There aren't any.

[ember storm]

they don’t exist

[muted hemlock]

Bruh

[ember storm]

she became what she’s like now years and years before we ever met her

[trim grotto]

Her change happened centuries ago.

[muted hemlock]

Next question

[empty fern]

Like this (trust me)

[trim grotto]

Nexus please

[muted hemlock]

Can a ghost choose to just, like not revive their guardian?

[ember storm]

of course

[trim grotto]

Yes. It has happened numerous times before.

[ember storm]

they’re sentient and have their own thoughts

[muted hemlock]

Ight

[ember storm]

they can just do what they want

[muted hemlock]

Yeah Jerry is smart

He told me so many things

[ember storm]

Ghost is canonically bad at math

[empty fern]

Clearly didn’t if you have to ask here

[muted hemlock]

Really?

[ember storm]

every time he needs to open a door or scan a thing remember other ghosts could do it better and faster

[empty fern]

Why did we get the meh ghost

[ember storm]

remnants of being voiced by dinklage

[trim grotto]

Bad is... relative. But he has said so.

[trim grotto]

Actually Nolan did that line too

[ember storm]

the stains lasted past his time

[muted hemlock]

Next question

I have come under the impression that the shell is not part of the ghost

[trim grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jlln4xfWqQ

[ember storm]

it is and it isn’t

[muted hemlock]

It’s more of just for decoration

[ember storm]

basically imagine hermit crabs

they’re created with one

but they can replace it

[muted hemlock]

The real ghost is the little orb

[muted hemlock]

Yeah

[ember storm]

it’s all “the real” ghost

it’s part of them

just interchangeable

[muted hemlock]

Did Savathûn legit make a factory for shells

And how do I get a hive shell

I want one

[ember storm]

there’s a triumph for legend spire I think

[empty fern]

Wq spire on legend

[ember storm]

whatever it is you can get this

[empty fern]

Pharmakos

Yea

[muted hemlock]

That ain’t no hive shell

I want the big tendrils

[empty fern]

There’s your green orb

[empty fern]

Tf you mean

[ember storm]

hive shells don’t have tendrils

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-destiny2witch-queen-hive-ghost-gif-25036926

[trim grotto]

I sure do love my Ghost looking like a bone chandelier

[muted hemlock]

I want this

[trim grotto]

what is that caption

[jagged badge]

I do wonder if there’s a technical reason we can’t have a legit Hive Ghost shell

[ember storm]

https://external-preview.redd.it/ZXKyzNetFrf2bViy5CjPNj-pdFu9K0tSyhYSBsySGQc.jpg?auto=webp&s=c95890a92945bb0326a95546b6446a1ea3416520

you can also do this

[muted hemlock]

agreed

[empty fern]

Too fuckin bad, some guardian would shoot it

[muted hemlock]

I love the little squeak they make before they die

[trim grotto]

[muted hemlock]

As if they can’t talk and plead for their life

[ember storm]

he probably wouldn’t be very comfortable with it given we kill them

[ionic temple]

It’s the only hive ghost shell

[ember storm]

I imagine they’re swearing at us in hive language

[ionic temple]

It even has hive ghost noises

[muted hemlock]

Lol

[muted hemlock]

Morals

And the stupid stuff

[empty fern]

Gotta wonder if ghosts really understand fear like humans (like the shadows on the moon)

[muted hemlock]

I have a pretty decent wastelander setup I’m just waiting to get the astrocyte verse.

[trim grotto]

anyway back to XCOM
ping me if you want me
or if another claim like "Calus is the Hunter Vanguard" is made

[empty fern]

Most definitely because another guardian would shoot the damn thing

[muted hemlock]

Inspectors robes really pull it together.

[ionic temple]

Yeah man ofc they do, they can still die and a bunch of other stuff

[muted hemlock]

Not like it’s going to do anything

[ember storm]

it definitely would

[muted hemlock]

Hasnt before

[empty fern]

Did we not just see what it could do

[ember storm]

it definitely has

[empty fern]

You ever play malf quest?

[ember storm]

the idea that a special kind of weapon is needed to kill ghosts is false

[empty fern]

Or played any wq at all?

[ember storm]

any gun could

a devourer bullet like the one that killed Cayde’s ghost is just a sure fire oneshot

[muted hemlock]

which one is that

[ember storm]

any ballistic force can kill a ghost

[empty fern]

The exotic one from gambit