📚lore-discussion

[fresh zephyr]

or at least it's just a fun Easter egg

silence

[jagged badge]

Marc, but yeah

[fresh zephyr]

yeah, he's marc's man

and a marksman

[jagged badge]

IS IT MY DESTINY TO LIVE AND DIE A LIFE OF BLONDE FRAGILITY?

[fresh zephyr]

I'm gonna do a class specific thing to you

[jagged badge]

Marc is mentioned a lot in lore and also in a fair few lines of dialogue from Season of Defiance

I’M JUST KEN

[fresh zephyr]

what class do u play

[jagged badge]

WHERE I SEE LOVE SHE SEES A FRIEND

WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR HER TO SEE THE MAN BEHIND THE TAN AND FIGHT FOR ME

[fresh zephyr]

I'm gonna get bungo to nerf your favorite exotics

[fresh zephyr]

this is not lore accurate

[jagged badge]

I don’t see the issue with this banger song tbh

[fresh zephyr]

it's not lore

[jagged badge]

It could be

Maybe Barbie (2023) survived the Collapse because it’s peak

[wheat latch]

That's actually awesome

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh shi yea shaw mah man

Haven't talked to him in years

[jagged badge]

Actually, correction. Marc isn’t lost at all

[wheat latch]

Don't say he's dead

[jagged badge]

In fact, there’s lore of Devrim, Marc and Suraya inviting Saint round for tea to keep him company whilst Osiris was in his coma

[wheat latch]

Oh thank god

[jagged badge]

There’s a really long list of LGBTQ+ Destiny characters actually, if you want to see it

[wheat latch]

Sure, why not

[jagged badge]

Saint-14
Osiris
Lord Shaxx
Devrim Kay
Marc
Suraya Hawthorne
Mara Sov
Sjur Eido
Eramis
Athrys
Ana Bray
Camrin Dumuzi
Elisabeth Bray
Ikora Rey
Drifter
Eriana-3
Wei Ning
Micah-10
Hector Abram
Wesley Abram
Chalco Yong
Amrita Vae
Kazia
Maya Sundaresh
Chioma Esi
Nimbus
Stargazer
Quinn Laghari
Paolo
Adinew

[wheat latch]

Bruh that's a lot more than I thought

[jagged badge]

I should note that some of these are more hinted than confirmed but still

[wheat latch]

What abt ghost tho

He deserves true love, let's find him a soul mate

[tawdry wigeon]

Jesus whoa

Its so many

I knew about a few but damn

[tawdry mauve]

he talks about marc during defiance

brings up multiple times

[wheat latch]

When can I meet marc

[echo fjord]

never

hes dead (probably)

[echo fjord]

i knew most of them but shaxx and elsie

[ember storm]

he’s not long lost he just lives in the city

[jagged badge]

Indeed

[tawdry mauve]

is the shaxx one just based on him marrying all of us during that one event

[tawdry wigeon]

I mean eramis is in there

But ig eliksi are the same as us men and women

[jagged badge]

Yeah, he pledges to marry any Guardian who wins the bow or whatever

So it can be taken as a hint that he could be panromantic

[tawdry wigeon]

What about drifter?

How do you know he is part of the lgbtq+?

[echo fjord]

bungie said so

like last yead

year

hes like

pansexual i think

but what about the straight characters of destiny?

[tawdry wigeon]

Fr eris named every character known in the game lmao

[jagged badge]

Drifter was confirmed pan during Season of Plunder

[tawdry wigeon]

Its a joke

Ahh i see I didn't remember it

[jagged badge]

Dunno because no one ever confirms whether characters are straight lmao

[tawdry wigeon]

It seems tho something might happen with eris

Could be nice

It felt refreshing seeing them talk last week compared to beyond light where they were not as fond of each other

[jagged badge]

That wouldn’t necessarily make her straight tbf

[echo fjord]

zavala in question:

[jagged badge]

Hm?

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh no no i just mentioned it

[jagged badge]

Ahhh gotcha

[tawdry wigeon]

I know it doesn't change anything

[jagged badge]

I do hope Eris and Drifter’s relationship becomes a proper thing because they have an amazing dynamic

[tawdry wigeon]

Fr

Tbf i get why so many of the characters are pansexual

I mean they have aliens that speak English so i get it

Plus humanity isnt as big as it used to be

[tawdry mauve]

i mean any character can be pan until you say they arent

[echo fjord]

i feel like the only exception is the guardian

cause it's basically us

so they could technically be straight or lgbt

[tawdry mauve]

i mean not really

the guardian isnt really a unique guardian for each player

the only thing that changes is their race and gender

the guardian is the same young wolf everyone plays as

the same main character

[tawdry wigeon]

Eh true but bungie refers to us as individual guardians

Plus in events like the "Olympics" there are ppl you compete against so diff guardians

Same with pvp

[mild wagon]

whats drifter's accent supposed to be?

[fast tapir]

rat

[tawdry mauve]

except the ones we play in game

are all the same guardian

the 1 young wolf

[tawdry wigeon]

Story wise yes

[fast tapir]

bruh

[empty fern]

So basically

Bungies giving me the middle finger on my void warlock with sunspot?

Wait

I read wrong, but also

The 3 guardians you make, they have to be separate since races are different

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea idk imo its diff characters completely despite what the lore says

[ember storm]

yeah no all of mine are exos

[empty fern]

Be hush

[ember storm]

one of them doesn’t even have eye sockets

explain that lore nerds

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh no what did you create....

[ember storm]

basically just this

Really accurate image actually

but cyan and with different antennas

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh i thought it was a human or awoken without any eyes

[ember storm]

after I specifically mentioned they were all exos

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea didnt connect the messages my bad

[outer dragon]

Someone please confirm Pulled Pork is Glint

[real ingot]

Yes pulled pork is glint

[tawdry wigeon]

Why do i always get random ass foods from dreaming city?

[outer dragon]

Im being challenged on Twitter, i cant find the exact confirmation of it
Pls hel0

Help

[real ingot]

Spiders dialogue

[outer dragon]

During Hunt?

[real ingot]

I believe

[fresh zephyr]

what the fuck is this sentence

[outer dragon]

The ghost formerly known as Pulled Pork is Glint

[fresh zephyr]

ah

d2 lore is so fucking weird

[ember storm]

an extremely inconsequential nickname is what you call "fucking weird"?

what are your standards for this

[fresh zephyr]

also fucking weird

[gentle geyser]

Ah, the ghost calling itself pulled pork is weird but not the giant worms, space pyramids, or the bone wizards

[fiery copper]

That stuff is par for the course in scifi fantasy

Pulled pork is like if you were playing skyrim and one of the characters is named Jarl Macandcheese

[ember storm]

never even called himself that

it was just a nickname some guardians gave him

[lost abyss]

Rabbit embryo giving Mara a revelation is always going to be the strangest thing to me

[outer dragon]

He didn't call himself that. It was a nickname

[gentle geyser]

I was responding to someone

[outer dragon]

My b

[dim minnow]

I know Glint himself had a voiceline where he noted that he was once named after meat

could be Astral Alignment

[ember storm]

i mean there's only one of 2 reactions to have after watching a rabbit embryo explode someone's head

freaking out and losing your shit or having a mortal epiphany

[dim minnow]

I'm wondering how Mara's social life was before boarding the Yang Liwei

because having that kind of reaction to a man getting a 90 cranked on him like that tells me that she's always been that kind of weird

[wind belfry]

she freaky

[worn kernel]

I remember how her cold demeanor melted slightly during Season of the Lost when she tried to be more open to her brother. Or specifically, the body that once belonged to her brother. But even so, I still felt like she was going to use Crow as a means to an end if she convinced him to return to her side.

[dim minnow]

I think that idea went away once Savathun gave Crow Uldren's memories

it is really nice seeing her development since Forsaken

[slim elk]

By whats been seen and said, seems that Mara had every intent of molding Crow into "Uldren 2.0" if she got hold of him before the memory restoration

[outer dragon]

She was 100% going to use Crow

[slim elk]

After the memories and with Crows outside experiance making him realize how much an abusive, manipulative bitch Mara was to him.. must have hurt her

[trim grotto]

She was then. But now? Nah.

It's interesting.

[slim elk]

I imagine there must have been an offscreen rant that Crow did to Mara, calling her out on everything

[ember storm]

he just started avoiding her completely

this coupled with mara's encounter with the witness was a major wakeup call

[slim elk]

Broke Maras ego thats for sure

Old Mara would never have personally assisted in rescuing civilains

[tulip knoll]

Is there any lore that covers the immediate reactions or story post Crota mortem and pre oryx invasion of sol?

[dim minnow]

I believe one of the final Books of Sorrow entries details Oryx's reaction to Crota's death

and I do know that there was a grimoire card detailing Eris and another guardian (presumed to be Osiris) meeting with Mara Sov to warn her about Oryx

[tulip knoll]

I’ll have to re read it

[grizzled zinc]

SPACE PIRATE

[sick yew]

Kinda western outlaw ish no?

[granite needle]

Does anyone know if we've ever seen any hive using stasis? I would think we'd see Xivu's brood using it at some point, and I know about the stasis taken boomer knights, but are there any other examples like that? Even anything doing stasis damage at all, doesn't have to use keywords or anything, kinda like how the generic "darkness blasts" from wizards do arc damage, is there anything any enemy, particularly hive, other than house salvation ofc, uses that does stasis damage?

[sick yew]

Scorn @granite needle

There's a subsection of the scorn dudes use stasis instead of their usual fire

But that's about it as far as I can recall

[granite needle]

Hope we see some of Xivu's hive using stasis at some point. It seems like they could and should since most non salvation stasis wielding enemies have been under her command at least broadly

[sick yew]

Since stasis is super annoying I hope not

But lore wise it's very likely that many of her forces do use stasis

[blazing wasp]

There was this whole talk in season of the lost explaining it

Their worms prevent it I believe?

[ember storm]

even then that would just be “using” stasis like we do

just doing it like salvation or scorn where it’s integrated into weapons wouldn’t matter

[granite needle]

I'm mostly hoping to see them use the damage type rather than the keywords

The keywords are obnoxious to be on the receiving end of. I just like the idea of it from a lore perspective

[granite needle]

Also if stasis was a more commonly used damage type by enemies it would make harmonic resist on stasis subclasses less... useless

[ember storm]

I mean the fact it only exists as a harmonic mod and not it’s own standalone says all that needs to be said

[wheat latch]

Wym by this

[ember storm]

basically hive can’t use stasis like guardians can

they just can’t

we don’t know why but it’s probably the worm

[blazing wasp]

why isnt it possible

its just not

[ember storm]

either way they could just use stasis guns

but bungie isn’t going to do that

[granite needle]

Stasis resist exists as its own mod it's just so useless that putting it on is shooting yourself in the foot

[ember storm]

great use of your time uke

proud of you

[blazing wasp]

thanks

[granite needle]

I can understand forgetting that a useless armor mod that you've never even used exists tho lol

[ember storm]

anyway point is

stasis isn’t going to just be another flat enemy damage type

they just don’t want to bloat things so it’s just used for them to slow and freeze

[granite needle]

The single usage case I can think of for it is maybe specific parts of beyond light, I know that we're getting those new enemies that will use it in final shape, but I would love to see more enemies use it as a flat damage type, it would kinda give them a bit more character sometimes? Like, sure, it's virtually identical to fight nearly anything in d2 if it's the same enemy class as something else, red bars are red bars after all, but if xivu's brood starting doing some stasis damage sometimes, you'd at least have to think about that when choosing what armor mods to put on when going into something where you fight them

[wheat latch]

Lmao, thank you for the meme representation

[granite needle]

I mean we at best kinda got a sorta implication that they might not be able to use it, with a quote about it possibly being similar to how a warlock doesn't use golden gun. Which... to me at least sounds more like just saying they weren't trained to use it

Cause, as far as I know, the only thing stopping a warlock from using golden gun lore wise is literally just that they didn't get the hunter training, just like how you are not locked into using one element at a time in lore, either

tldr hive can't use stasis cause they picked a different subclass to play for their build today

[fresh zephyr]

anyone know anything about this?

[blazing wasp]

its "unofficial official"

predates destiny, but is technically fanmade.

its complicated, in short: ignore

[fresh zephyr]

yea ik that much but it’s just so creepy

[wheat latch]

Why is it so low quality

[blazing wasp]

it predates destiny

like destiny 1

[wheat latch]

They had 720p then lmao

Unless you mean the concept of destiny which may make it much older

[blazing wasp]

No it does not predate its concept, as this shares too many associations with destiny to be a coincidence

its likely just some bungo employee

also it has been reposted to hell and back because its so old

[wheat latch]

Gotcha

Makes me think of Rasputin, I've never seen it before this

[jagged badge]

Is this from that Joyeuse thing?

[fresh zephyr]

yea

[jagged badge]

Yeah that was fanmade iirc

[ember storm]

destiny analog horror real

[remote sky]

what happened to eramis after plunder

[ember storm]

season of the seraph were she and Xivu were trying to raid Rasputin complexes to gain control of the warsat network

then she did some stuff in defiance and hasn’t been seen since

[remote sky]

oh
I just thought we were putting Rasputin back together while some fallen were just doing the typical fallen thing

[tender cove]

Xivu is expected to be the boss of the Final Shape campaign right?

[ember storm]

I expected her to die this season honestly

[remote sky]

Wait what?? wouldn't Xivu just be crota but different? Basically just
"Big hive wizard"

[ember storm]

Savathun isn’t coming back unless Xivu is dead and Savathun is literally our only lead

[remote sky]

...why are we bringing Savathün back why would we do that

does she somehow know how to defeat the unibrow

[ember storm]

yes?

[remote sky]

bruh

[ember storm]

that’s literally the entire point of this season and was the finale of last season

we’re bringing Savathun back because we need her help

[remote sky]

I don't buy the seasons

I've only ever bought silver and beyond light

[ember storm]

not my problem

watch videos or something

[grizzled zinc]

!letting go?

[jagged badge]

Ahsa told us that Savathûn knows how to enter the portal the Witness made over the Traveler

[grizzled zinc]

It’s so ominous, also the frame at the end looks like mr witness a lik bit

[remote sky]

the guy that actually makes decent lore videos waits until each expansion is released to even start the next one

the only other one I know is making crazy theories and I'm kinda tired of it

[blazing wasp]

Who?

[remote sky]

https://youtu.be/NHaq0EbeHHQ?si=CNsY0zNaatonFCya

[blazing wasp]

Ah yeah the crazy d2 conspiracy theorist man

[remote sky]

That's him??

[blazing wasp]

Hey he makes some good content too

[remote sky]

damn I don't pay attention

[blazing wasp]

He's been poked at a few times for truly deranged theories

"Calus is the voice in the darkness" shit

[remote sky]

probably a blood magic as the next subclass typa shit

[blazing wasp]

Rivals matpat

[remote sky]

[blazing wasp]

But does good coverage when it's objective

[jagged badge]

[remote sky]

man I need someone that don't do that shit
no theories

just EXPLAIN WHAT IS HAPPENING

[blazing wasp]

I personally prefer byf, they keep their theories mostly sane and when they get a bit out there he specifies they're theories, not fact

And when he does cover fact he breaks it down pretty well

[remote sky]

bet

[tender cove]

That is a good point. I was just thinking about how Calus was slowly built up to be Lightfall's boss throughout season of the haunted. They seemed to be doing the same for Xivu but idk that's just guessing. Since Witness will be the raid boss, campaign boss needs to be someone else and I doubt it will be Eramis again.

[remote sky]

I
HOW THE FUCK WOULD ERIS HAVE THRONE WORLD?????

[blazing wasp]

Because she... is using sword logic?

That's like the core plot for this season

[remote sky]

how'd she even end up as our gothic tower hivewoman
I still don't know WHAT happened to make her that way

is it just a fucking curse??

[blazing wasp]

There was this whole ritual to do it

She explains it

[slim elk]

Someone hasn't been playing Destiny for a month lol

[remote sky]

I have only ever read the random gun and armor lore 👀

[jagged badge]

In the first place? She lost her Light and her sight in the Hellmouth and grafted an Acolyte’s eyes to her face

[blazing wasp]

Do ritual, transform, she can change back and forth, and is using it to benefit from the sword logic

[blazing wasp]

She outright tells us

In the story

[remote sky]

*lack of season pass

[blazing wasp]

Ah

[ember storm]

she was forced to fend for herself in the depths of the moon for years

[remote sky]

AH
this helps
thank you

[ember storm]

and had an extensive hive journal with her

also an ahamkara stole her eyes

so she replaced them with hive ones

[remote sky]

I do know she was stuck in the hellmouth

[remote sky]

..what

[ember storm]

well you know what ahamkara do right

[blazing wasp]

50% return on eyes investment

[jagged badge]

She wished to her Ahamkara bone to know the way out, but it took her sight

[ember storm]

if you try and make a wish with one they screw you over

she wanted the way out, it gave her the knowledge, but also literally made her blind

[remote sky]

they grant wishes and say o'bearer mine to pull asshole moves

[ember storm]

monkeys paw but reptilian and an asshole

[outer dragon]

Some thral use stasis melee (chill touch modifer) occasionally but that might be just a gameplay thing

[ember storm]

modifiers are all gameplay things

[grizzled zinc]

O’ murderer mine~

[remote sky]

how does taken knight have stasis gun and breath fire
this
what??

[tender cove]

I was hoping Eris to stay as a Hive throughout the season and revert back to her original form at the end, like prior to Hellmouth. It would have been cool.

[remote sky]

cured by embracing the issue

[jagged badge]

They can’t do that on account of Eris being a destination vendor on Luna

[remote sky]

she could still stay there, no?

[ember storm]

stasis tech is just a thing

[remote sky]

oh yeah I forget that you just need a splinter

[ember storm]

salvation’s grip and Eramis exclusively uses gauntlets to cast

[remote sky]

it would be cool if warlocks got an exotic glove that was just a remake of eramis' glove

[ember storm]

as for the fire spitting, it’s what a knight is given to be “final”

[ember storm]

osmiomancy but worse

[remote sky]

golden/bronze, talons, splinter, only one hand*

[trim grotto]

That would make a good ornament though

[remote sky]

yeeeesss

[blazing wasp]

The missing piece for a knight is a flamethrower

[ember storm]

we could use more fallen ornaments

anyway

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-knight

taken knight spits fire because this

[remote sky]

So they either get a gun or a sword, and then finally they get to breath fire

I need the hive evolutionary line
like bruh

[outer dragon]

Wasn't Eris's wish specifically "To see a way out?" I know she took the Acolytes eyes. Did the Ahamkara give her deep knowledge of the Hive or was she a Hive expert before her ill fated fireteam entered the Hellmouth? Or did she spend the time after the fact studying?

[trim grotto]

Toland's journal gave her expertise.

[remote sky]

thrall > ogre
thrall> acolyte > wizard/knight

oh and exploders

[outer dragon]

Do we think we will talk with Toland this season?

[trim grotto]

Nnno, I don't think so. But mostly because he's been AWOL for yonks.

[outer dragon]

He is just chilling on patrol on the moon though

[trim grotto]

Narratively AWOL

[ember storm]

he was there during Shadowkeep

storywise he’s just wherever

[outer dragon]

I feel like the events of this season would intrest him

[trim grotto]

I'm sure they would

But we haven't heard from Toland since... Shadowkeep itself? Except for Osiris saying he'd go find him once before BL

Which we never heard about

[ember storm]

wasn’t Osiris also supposed to meet the nine on Europa

[trim grotto]

Well
Yes
But that's some old old lore

[ember storm]

anyway these tabs are some of my favorite lore in the game

especially lately

[fresh zephyr]

yep

[trim grotto]

Ah, !lettinggo. So many people wasted their time trying to decipher that.

[blazing wasp]

Me when the only technical official fanmade content is still fanmade content

😲

[trim grotto]

Many people didn't know it was fanmade.

Many still don't.

[ember storm]

I could make a better one

[empty fern]

I didn’t know it existed, get on my level

[remote sky]

just watching something
some shit about the hive being the krill originally?

[trim grotto]

Before they got the Worms.

[remote sky]

kk
so
video implied that the traveler originally planned to come to them, before they became hive
assuming with how they have the light now, does this mean the hive were gonna be the first guardians?

[trim grotto]

It means they were going to have the blessing of the Traveler. Like the Ammonite did, or the Eliksni, or Golden Age Humanity. An uplifted species, terraformed worlds.

Ghosts are a unique case, never before seen.

[remote sky]

Aih.
I see

[ember storm]

aiat

[remote sky]

what was that thing about shaw somehow having young ahamkara before the raid ever even existed

[trim grotto]

The raid?

[remote sky]

idk

Isn't young from the raid?

[trim grotto]

I'm assuming you're referring to his leg armour

[remote sky]

his arm

[trim grotto]

YAS was in Vanilla D2

[remote sky]

the bones
on his arm

[remote sky]

[trim grotto]

The leg armour is from Last Wish

It's armour of the Great Hunt. It's in the name.

So presumably Shaw partook in the Great Hunt, earned the leg armour, kept some spine bones.

[remote sky]

oh cool

[ember storm]

Aztecross has been around the block

[remote sky]

why did the witness' people just fuckin merge into one thing entirely out of spite??

[trim grotto]

They collectively believed that a Final Shape was the purpose and guidance this universe needed, to erase the chaos. Where better to start than making your species into a single perfect shape?

[remote sky]

You seem.. worryingly agreeable about the final shape thing

[trim grotto]

Just explaining it from their/its point of view. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of fighting to survive and earn my existence. I like my relaxing cups of tea in the evening too much.

[ember storm]

I agree that their whole ideology sucks but if I could reshape reality to my whims I definitely would

[chrome fog]

As much as their philosophy might make sense from their own perspective, it doesn’t justify their actions one bit, much like how just because you feel nihilistic about the world doesn’t justify you to lashing out at others

Which is the point of the Witness, they’re a physical representation of such thinking - “Oh life has no meaning even though I have everything I could ever want, so I should tear everything down!” - which we, the Guardians, fight against by making our own Fate

What do you in an existence with no inherent meaning? You make it for yourself

[chrome fog]

Oh @dim minnow, if you’re here, a gift from the Cryptarchy

[grizzled zinc]

Is eris just hitching rides from ikora as of taken king? Cayde kinda screwed her over in terms of jumpships

[dim minnow]

neat

[ember storm]

I mean she can open portals

[fresh zephyr]

they hinted toland sided with the cabal just so he can slide in with ciatl.

[chrome fog]

What?

[fresh zephyr]

honestly even if hes a simp hes got that royalty

[chrome fog]

Toland was obsessed with the Hive not Cabal

[fresh zephyr]

wait he actually tried to hook up? lmao

[chrome fog]

Why did I come back here again?

[fresh zephyr]

idk why im here either... but hopefully we chat about how much of a bi*** uldern is.

[chrome fog]

Toland was obsessed with the Sword Logic and the Hive; the reason he’s a floating orb is because his physical form was eradicated when he went to listen to the Deathsingers’ Deathsong, that orb is the small Throneworld he attempted to create

[fresh zephyr]

he was a ballah when he wasnt sensitive

[chrome fog]

Uldren was messed up from being in the Black Garden, crashing after the Dreadnaught’s weapon wiped out the Awoken fleet, and then Riven manipulating him into the complicated events which would’ve lead to the Guardians entering the Dreaming City and killing her, their desire to do so allowing her to grant Savathun’s wish of the Three Week Cycle currently trapping the entire Dreaming City

And istt if you say Crow is Uldren I’m going to crush your ghost

[fresh zephyr]

sick info. im just saying that old character fits the voice actor wayy better

[chrome fog]

[fresh zephyr]

[chrome fog]

No

[ember storm]

the hell is this

[chrome fog]

I return and hell comes to haunt me

r/D2cord any% block

[fresh zephyr]

What we’re all the non-caiatl/Osiris voice lines in presage?

[ember storm]

egregore psychic darkness stuff

it was tapping into your psyche and replaying important/relevant stuff

[tawdry mauve]

we got a full view of ahsa

[ember storm]

sashimi

[tawdry mauve]

how the hell they go from fish to worm will never be clear to me

[chrome fog]

NOO

[chrome fog]

I mean look at Eris' transformation

[tawdry mauve]

she is still "humanoid"

[ember storm]

if only there were another case of darkness horribly mutating a species to where they're barely recognizable also

[tawdry mauve]

i mean

they still have a semblance of their past selves

[chrome fog]

And??? They're still long and serpentine

[ember storm]

wrathborn literally turn into eldritch abominations given enough time

[tawdry mauve]

fish to worm is still a much bigger stretch than krill to hive

[ember storm]

blisters, extra limbs, tentacles

getting taller and face extending isn't much of a stretch at all

[chrome fog]

I mean by what means? Again, they're both quite long and don't necessarily follow conventional biology, what with their connection to paracausality always being there. The Worms are just more boney and evil looking

Eris herself barely looks human as a Hive God, even if she's still humanoid

The Eliksni are Humanoid, the Cabal are Humanoid, the Vex, the Scorn, the Hive, the Tormentors

Even the Taken

And they've been effectively turned into Darkness goop in the vague shape of what they used to be with new powers to make them better foot soldiers for the one who had Taken them

[ember storm]

they also grow spikes out of their back and whatnot

[chrome fog]

I need to pull some citations of what Wrathborn look like once they're gone past the incubation period, which is what we fight in-game

Savek's claws dig convulsively into the grainy dirt as her body ruptures. Her skin gives a grisly rip as her viscera expands beyond its confines. The thick glow of Ether is joined by another more ravenous force. Plasm spurts from connective tissue as her body swells, molting and regrowing in an eruption of chitin.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/viii-unmade#book-call-of-the-cryptolith

Gaelin-4 and Nivviks slowly crawled to her side, taking care not to draw attention in the quiet night. The beast was Cabal all right, red-paint-scraped armor of the Legion buckled against an outpouring of muscle and blistering flesh. From its back and stomach, bladed tendril mutations slithered through gaps in the armor. Its hands were fused in an ever-grip around two massive cleavers that ploughed trenches in the soil as it trundled toward the flames.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/wild-hunt-strides#wild-hunt-suit-hunter

From Glamdring of the Cryptarchy

[ember storm]

yeah friendly reminder that the captain wrathborn from season of the hunt wasn't a captain

it was a dreg who mutated three times the original size and grew an additional set of limbs while the other pair was still docked

[chrome fog]

If the mutations could be that severe for other species, stands to reason it could transform Ahsa's species into the Worm Gods

[serene swift]

I didn’t need to know this but thank you

[ember storm]

happy to help

[pearl basin]

acc to the tfs teaser trailer way back , we saw caitl in a well , that raised a question , does well , rift , or any other healing / empowering abilities that gaurdians use between them
does that effect also extend to non - lightbearers ?

bcz you can see caitl being bathed in the solar light of the well in the trailer

so that just made me curious

[blazing wasp]

There's been several instances of light abilities that buff helping non light bearers

Such as radiance on redjacks

[ember storm]

Ikora also cast blink and took a mortal with her

[chrome fog]

Isn’t there also some small lore but about how Solar Light is particularly comforting?

[peak coral]

uh it looks like normal fire

ig

look at a tesla coil, a purple energy ball, and a campfire.

which of the 3 is the most comforting to you?

probably campfire tbf

[real ingot]

Is that who I think it is

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-there-hi-there-greetings-gif-9442662

[chrome fog]

It looks like normal fire but there is a definite impact on one’s psyche when using the subclasses. For Void, it’s often been characterized with obsession, Voidlocks with knowledge and Void Titans with being an unsurnountable defense

[peak coral]

:3

[chrome fog]

Solar Light in particular has been associated with healing and comfort, though I need to re-read the subclass lore tabs from the past

[dim minnow]

rage could be part of it too

an example would be Shin Malphur when he gunned Dredgen Yor down right in the middle of his monologue

[chrome fog]

I also came to the revelation that the duality of mental state between Light and Darkness is that the mental state affects channeling Darkness, but channeling Light affects one the mental state of the user

[dim minnow]

idk, I'm pretty sure Stasis had some adverse effects on one's mind

case in point, Eramis

and Elsie

[chrome fog]

Which I've been torturing myself over the proper phrasing in this comparison, since there's no proper comparison given by the game

[dim minnow]

she said that keeping control over Stasis is a constant battle

[chrome fog]

For sure, but you get to the right mental state to mitigate the effects prior to actually being able to use Stasis, whereas the Light subclasses somewhat inspire their corresponding mental state

[devout vine]

Thats right....conceptually speaking, Stasis is the dark manifestation of control over emotion...similar to the principle of strand which manipulates the metaphysical consciousness of the fabric of existence

[chrome fog]

Control specifically

And... that last part is true but is not along the same lines as what we're discussing in regards to emotional/mental state with the subclasses

With regards to Strand, it requires the opposite of Stasis, letting go of control and allowing one to go with the flow

[dim minnow]

given the cutscene where Osiris talks about the nature of Light and Dark, I would say that Stasis primarily pertains to emotion

[devout vine]

That is true....
Stasis required mastery over ones emotions and to not use them as a means to crutch yourself into using stasis.

Strand, as Nimbus has stated with the river of souls analogy, simply requires us to relinquish control and just flow....
Effectively allowing ourselves to act in the presence of strand consciousness

What you guys think?
Maybe a third darkness subclass....
Perhaps requires mastery over acceptance maybe

[chrome fog]

That would be Strand already, it's very close to the same theme of going with the flow, letting things happen

[dim minnow]

maybe fate

[chrome fog]

White/Yellow/Pink subclass of sand for the win, pls bungo I beg

[devout vine]

I say acceptance because it would kind of allow us as guardians to reflect on your journey and accept our path in the light and dark saga....

Pushing on beyond final shape

[dim minnow]

Warlock casts The Pharaoh's Curse

[devout vine]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-no-way-home-sinister-six-lizard-electro-sandman-gif-23818505

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/pharoah's-curse-pharoah-curse-gif-9768609729181577113

[devout vine]

That'd be A cool exotic for trials week in that expansion for final shape

[dim minnow]

acceptance was already for Stasis

even has a track named after it

goes hard as well

[chrome fog]

Also I'd like to mention that Stasis has a weird literal consciousness attached to it, which effectively enacted balance nerfs and on itself to be more appealing to potential users and Stasis crystals themselves somewhat resemble Vex radiolaria structures according to the BL CE

[devout vine]

My mind is still stuck in garden....
The dubstep won't stop playing

[chrome fog]

Stasis is hard Control, complete and domineering
Strand is about Flow, acceptance and doing what you can with what you're dealt with

Something Something Jungian psychology with the id, ego, and super-ego

[dim minnow]

never really saw much appeal for GoS music except for Temptation

[devout vine]

If that's the case....
Perhaps manipulation....using the concept of consciousness in darkness to freely manipulate souls or minds maybe

[dim minnow]

don't get me wrong, Sanctified is still really good, I just don't prefer it

[devout vine]

It still rings in my head after all those horrible runs I experienced

[dim minnow]

my idea is that the next Darkness subclass could be tied to fate

[devout vine]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-lol-headache-cute-funny-gif-26526333

[chrome fog]

Oh hey speaking of which, this interpretation came up during a discussion of why Void Hunters were so rare and when they brought up how Hunters are reluctant to use Void because they're wary of the urges it gave them

[devout vine]

The really cool thing to add to this is that the suppression of other abilities and enemies also plays into this interpretation too

[chrome fog]

Also going back to this, Strand could be id - instinct and unfiltered spontaneity - Stasis could be ego - full desire and what you'd want if you were in full control - so maybe the Fate thing could be connected to Super-Ego, in that we shift reality to how we want, that we transform the land around us, in the most basic way in fiction - through the land itself

[dim minnow]

Arc would have to relate to chaos

hmmm

[chrome fog]

That might also be a reason why Void was so feared as it drew a bit too closely to our enemies' mentality, obsession with asserting our will over the user

[devout vine]

Stasis is accurate in that sense as well....
Seeing as though the complete domination over others and the desire to control and fulfill your desires is manifested into Ice...

Ironic considering when faced against the cold, you can only do so much in the cold

[dim minnow]

Void - obsession/hunger
Solar - rage
Arc - chaos

[devout vine]

Yh you're right...there were entries on how the interpretation of Void was akin to darkness.....
But I feel like it was due to the manifestation of this increased ego was demonstrated with the concentration of matter and space

[chrome fog]

I believe there was Ikora's description of harnessing which led me to the conclusion of Arc as Super-Ego; her description speaks of her emotions rising and then her seizing control over them

[devout vine]

Heres an interesting thought....
I know we had to commune to the stasis shards to understand and commune with stasis alongside our light....

But other enemies including House Salvation can manipulate stasis....
What's stopping the enemies of humanity from applying that same principle to Strand?

[chrome fog]

uhhhhhh i don't think you know what Ego means in this sense

Also I'm assuming from basic deconstruction of Carl Jung's theories, but generally I'm pulling from his definitions

[devout vine]

I mean in the sense that....
To control the fabric of space and matter would fill anyone with ego. Or do you mean something else when referring to ego?

[chrome fog]

Oh huh I think I swapped Ego and Super Ego, but those are the definitions I'm pulling from

[devout vine]

Ahhhhh you're referring to the distinction between the ID of our subclasses and the superego I.e. the self critical consciousness we all have when applying this logic to our subclasses

That's really interesting tbf

Helps to understand them on a much deeper level

[chrome fog]

No, I'm comparing the subclasses to those three aspects of the mind: The Id, the Ego, and the Super-Ego respectively in the definitions I provided

[chrome fog]

You're thinking of Ego in the conventional sense - extreme pride - but I'm referring to the aspect of the mind which - at that point - I thought was the culmination of one's goals in respect to what they know they should aspire to through experience and learning

[ember storm]

I don’t really see it

[devout vine]

Oh no....I get what ego you're referring to as stated before...
As in the conceptual mind sense...
I understand now

[chrome fog]

Yeah, I miffed the definitions a bit from what little I remembered, associating Ego with Idealistic Desire, Id with Obsessive Desire, and Super-Ego with concious action in relation to both

Solar I felt always had this feel of Idealism, Arc I wasn't really sure on, but then the discussion on Void got me thinking it's the Id of the three Light subclasses

[devout vine]

That's why I love lore.....it's a mixture of different elements of the story spread throughout the game which helps us understand everything that remains vague until we learn more

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-osiris-magic-gif-22855503

[chrome fog]

Well that and the story's messages, which include how to take control over different aspects of your life

Boy I love literary analysis in media, genuinely

[devout vine]

Pretty unpopular opinion but I actually prefer Savathun's method of being our enemy rather than oryx (crazy I know considering I think he's the GOAT)

But I do think that Savathun, outsmarting everyone and planning ahead centuries ahead of time is possibly the coldest move I've ever seen that I like

[ember storm]

Xol did it before it was cool

[chrome fog]

Rhulk did it with the teacher (The Witness) doing everything for him kinda

Teacher's notes

[ember storm]

I’m talking meta wise

[devout vine]

As powerful as the disciples of the witness were, don't you think it's extremely impressive how savathun was able to do all of that....
Outsmarting the witness twice and even trapping Rhulk in her throne world and if that weren't enough, her initially sealing nezarec

[chrome fog]

Eh, Rhulk was a jock dipshit who was also the "Quiet Kid"

And Witness is lost in their own thing

[devout vine]

I feel like he was too focused on the purpose he was given by the witness to act accordingly

[ember storm]

whining about daddy issues while skinning housecats

just Rhulk things

[chrome fog]

He's also a Jock that believes himself a Quiet Kid while also just. Being a piece of shit

[dim minnow]

Uun was pretty much a reflection of Rhulk

[devout vine]

I do love that he was the Black Fleet's mad scientist of sorts, experimenting with the worms and scorn

[chrome fog]

Ehhhhhhh

He was more like Sid from Toy Story

[ember storm]

he was just bored because he sucked at his sole job

[dim minnow]

still waiting on Nezarec's shattered suns

[chrome fog]

Musclehead for real

[devout vine]

Perhaps he craved purpose as well...
I mean, being a simpleton on Lubrae would've been unbearable

[ember storm]

this was when he was in the throne world

he was literally just fucking around

[devout vine]

Also, how cool do you think Nezarec would've been had he not been dissected of his body by the eliksni...

[ember storm]

he’d just be skinnier which would be lame

dad bod nez forever

[chrome fog]

It's from the same place that the Witness hunted down the Traveler: Entitlement. As much there could be some "understandability" from him, it's from the objectively wrong motivation

[devout vine]

Is Rhulk's motivation clear or even variably justified?

[ember storm]

“Wahhh I’m so isolated because I’m ok with mass murder… so sad”

he was just a redditor

[devout vine]

Basically 🤣

[chrome fog]

Because the Lubrae were initially uplifted by the Traveler, but then somewhat collapsed into an authoritarian planetary government? I think from reading others' analysis? And so he goes the Redditor mentality

[devout vine]

Speaking of the black fleet...
Are there any definitive sources of lore regarding the Tormentors or just what we have seen?
I haven't picked up reading any lore in a while

[chrome fog]

Which I think further plays into how the Traveler only gives, it's only us mortals who are capable of abusing those gifts when we should technically be living in paradise and just ruin things because "ugh we have it too good"

[chrome fog]

I think we just get the line on Calus' research combining with the Witness' resources, which is presumably Nezarec's material which Calus cloned into the tormentors

[devout vine]

I guess you could say that no matter how blessed civilisations become by the traveller, the desire to seek direction and purpose ascends

[devout vine]

So what sort of cloning do you think mightve spawned the subjugators you think in final shape?

[chrome fog]

Which is the major message with the Witness species feeling entitled to a meaning to life and our own catchphrase of "Guardians make their own Fate"; You make your meaning to life, it is dependent on you and the only one you can truly blame is yourself for any wrong caused by your actions

[chrome fog]

Who fuckin knows, it's a weird Akashic Record space, Witness could've whipped them up from what it would consider the perfect soldier enemies

[devout vine]

It's really impressive too...other fans have said it feels recycled but I really do love that they are more mobile and challenging

The stasis Subjugator looks so cool!

[ember storm]

notably the subjugator’s most closely resemble Rhulk with the same type of limbs and build

Tormentors of course resembling nezarec with similar limbs and body as well

[devout vine]

Yh I was gonna say that

They do seem to be notably similar in behavioural patterns in the trailer to rhulk

[chrome fog]

Which fits in that at this moment they just need strong muscle to just body block the Guardians coming after them, not something to Torment them distract them in that different way

[real ingot]

When Calus enemy types

[ember storm]

now

[willow summit]

Anyone have a crota cp they can share?

[chrome fog]

Go to #✨destiny-discussion

This is not the place

[shadow warren]

;lfg

[candid inlet]

Looking for more players?
Check out #looking-for-group for links to our LFG channels, and further resources including:

• Destiny 2 LFG Discord (Formerly the Destiny 2 PC LFG, now for all platforms)
• D2Checkpoint
• Bungie Fireteam Search
• Reddit's r/Fireteam
• Reddit's r/DestinySherpa

[pearl basin]

Can you tell about every subclass? , I wanna know

[chrome fog]

Not really as it's been a while since I've read the subclass lore tabs; however Ishtar most probably has transcripts of the tabs

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[pearl basin]

I've always wondered how does the witness look under that edgy mask

[chrome fog]

That's not exactly a mask

It's just

What they look like

[pearl basin]

Subjugators are fun

Time to get suspended 😭

The black looks like some kind of clothing

With that cape behind it

[chrome fog]

As an amalgamation of similarly glass eyed humanoids with pale smooth skin, the Witness just Looks Like That

[pearl basin]

Ohh alright

[trim grotto]

mask?

[dim minnow]

as in the part of its suit that covers its mouth

[tulip knoll]

Nothing more cringy than mf’s using the exploit claiming they’re lore accurate guardians now

[trim grotto]

lore accurate guardians die to single hive knights

[dim minnow]

maybe those single Hive knights are just very strong in lore

Kelgorath was killed by a Guardian several, maybe hundreds of times before he finally killed them

[covert dawn]

just watched a video that kind of brought up an interesting question.
Do you trust your Ghost? Or any Ghost for that matter?
Its been said before that Dark Age Ghosts were very different compared to the Ghosts that the player character carries around with them. For example, its heavily implied that Immaru is one of these Dark Age ghosts.
Just wanted to see some opinions

[idle raptor]

what's up with wish enders lore?

it's so creepy

[trim grotto]

Literally all Ghosts are Dark Age Ghosts. There's only ever been one batch.

[covert dawn]

Well I didn't know that lmao

[trim grotto]

"Mm."

"And I was dead, I think." She cracks her neck with a deliciously loud pop. "Or… trapped? Like in a maze. But pretty close to figuring my way out."```
```"This was on her body, Your Grace."

A strange coin lay at the center of Abra's outstretched palm. Mara took it between thumb and forefinger and held up it to the cosmos with dainty contempt.

Weregild, she thought. Powerful grief filled her chest, as thick and caustic and heavy as unset concrete.

"And her bow?"

"Gone."```
```31.

On the day that Sjur Eido dies, she receives a call from Mara Sov. "I would ask for my boon," the queen says with shaking voice.

It is the first time she dares to trust a Guardian. It will not be the last.


32.

The Queen paces as Orin leans on her war hammer. "I need to know who killed her," Mara says.

"To know, or to see them killed?"

Mara's grief and anger blaze across her face. She looks out at the Reef as she struggles to master herself.

Orin imagines Namqi dead and clenches her war hammer a little tighter.

At last, Mara says, "First, to know." She gives Orin the strange coin that the search party found on Sjur's body. "I'm not sure it was a murder."


33.

The search sends her deep into a sublunar cavern where she finds no enemies, but instead clouds of steam and a half-man with grasping tentacles where his face should be.

"Forgive them," he rasps as she crushes his windpipe in her fist.```

Short story? The Nine.

Long story? The Nine, but we don't know much else.

[real relic]

How many Guardians are in activity ? More like ~50 or more like 100k ?

[trim grotto]

We don't know how many are actually active, though Bungie has implied it's the amount of actually active players.
Here's some relevant dialogue though.
IKO-006 ranks in the upper fraction of the 99th percentile of assessed Warlocks on most available metrics of precision, restraint, and raw power. She is, in simplistic terms, a fifth sigma Guardian: 1 in 3.5 million. Given that millions of Guardians have been activated over the centuries since the Collapse, and assuming that performance of Guardians on these metrics is normally distributed, we would expect about ten Guardians of similar power to have existed.
This suggests there have been, in total over history, 35 million Guardians. 3.5 x 10. This does not show how many are active or alive.
(These complaints come from the same people who ask why we haven't reconquered the whole solar system with our vast strength, forgetting how many Guardians are either in abeyance after exhaustion, still working on mastering their first subclass, or already committed to the protection of populations and resources here on Earth.)

[real relic]

Thank you for the explainations :)

And among all these Guardians, are there many that are about as strong as the Guardian or are they a bit weak ?

[ember storm]

the guardian and those like them aren’t very many

as the message above stated majority haven’t even fully mastered one subclass

casually perfectly wielding 5, including 2 darkness ones isn’t something a lot can do

[trim grotto]

We can't really gather an effective comparison to the Guardian either. We've done great things, but it isn't necessarily because we're powerful. We're reliable and in the right place at the right time, quite often.

[ember storm]

I’ve always described the guardian as the gordon freeman of destiny

not particularly standout on paper but just versatile and reliable when it comes down to it

plus most of our resume wouldn’t specifically require us to have a hand in

we just have our reputation and connections so we’re just the first one sent

[peak coral]

are there any hakke exotic weapons in d2

apart from revision 0

because i dont remember any

i just know theres a handful of every other foundry (well except nadir ig)

[trim grotto]

Just Revision 0

[ember storm]

i miss fabian strategy

[fresh zephyr]

Do we know the identity of the unknown guardian in presage?

[ember storm]

unknown?

his name is katabasis

shadow of calus and original owner of DMT, a custom-built tex mechanica weapon

[trim grotto]

Quite known

[ember storm]

i'm glad he got such a happy ending and willingly gave up his prized rifle as thanks

[tawdry mauve]

im glad his ghost gilgamesh decided to do the healthy thing and leave their releationship

their story gives me the fuzzies :)

[ember storm]

love how the gilgamesh collectible looks literally nothing like him

[tawdry mauve]

what do you mean it looks exactly like him

[ember storm]

the collectible

[tawdry mauve]

[tawdry mauve]

i brought the ghost shell up to compare to the collectible lol

not the other way around

[ember storm]

also wait this person is using bad juju

gross

[serene swift]

Need a bad juju less screenshot

[tawdry mauve]

me when pulse with thresh + rampage + subsistence

that also makes explosions

🥱

[ember storm]

we are saved

don't pay attention to them using arcstrider pre-3.0

[tawdry mauve]

holy shit tempest strike melee

real

[serene swift]

Does the collectable still exist in current game

[ember storm]

probably not

the only reason they existed was for the chosen seal i think

and lore

[trim grotto]

No.

[serene swift]

Ah alright, sad

[jagged badge]

Paracausality!

What a trip

[ember storm]

i hate toland

i hate toland

[raven glen]

Yall think final shape wise we finally get to see shaxx fight since we gonna need allll gaurdians aboard to beat witness or certain gaurdians. maybe even drifter himself i know for a fact Saint 14 finna want to kick some witness ass too who else yall think would make a appearance cus from wat i see i just see ikora and zavala and cayde

[chrome fog]

Mmm maybe not

[shadow warren]

Ye idk sounds like a long cutscene

But maybe

[chrome fog]

That doesn’t sound like a downside if your even interested in the involvement of characters in our conflict with the Witness, though some sweat lord is certain to complain about how long it takes them to get into the mission on release

[shadow warren]

No it’s not a downside at all

I just don’t see bungie giving us a long cutscene like that

The more I think about it though the more I see it as a possibility. Last dlc of the saga so

[torpid flint]

https://tenor.com/view/markiplier-you-dont-wnat-to-be-like-this-this-is-digsuting-this-is-awful-in-every-way-if-i-could-kill-it-gif-27104618

It’s quite sad we can’t kill the monologuing glow orb

[chrome fog]

Toland the fuck-ass simp

[fresh zephyr]

Are there new guardians everyday

[misty halo]

I just wanna see what Shaxx and Saint look like without their helmets

[real ingot]

We've had a scene with Saint without his helmet

[chrome fog]

The very end of Splicer, where Mithrax wakes up Osiris with the distilled Darkness of the plunder relics

[jagged badge]

Also his corpse

[real ingot]

Plunder not Splicer

[chrome fog]

Oh yeah from… Undying? Can’t remember

[real ingot]

Dawn

[chrome fog]

I diddly darn gooofed

Twice, damn

[real ingot]

I revoke your lore knowledge badge

[chrome fog]

[real ingot]

Hence forth I erase the books of sorrow from your mind

[chrome fog]

Ha! You fool, I never read them properly in the first place! (Skimmed them lightly to understand claims we make about the Hive)

[trim grotto]

Not strictly every day, but yes, even now we're still getting new Guardians risen.

[dim minnow]

I would like to see Bungie give at least a cutscene briefly going over the events of past seasons in the timeline

[outer dragon]

NezCafe

[ember storm]

revoke yours

his corpse was from curse of osiris

[real ingot]

Denied

[ember storm]

we only ever find saint alive during dawn

his corpse is only seen in CoO

[chrome fog]

Anyways comedy and misremembering

[fiery copper]

New guardians are still being rezzed, yes

[chrome fog]

Hi Star

[remote sky]

questions about variks

why does he have lung cancer?? (chittering and wheezing)
and what happened to his arm

[devout vine]

Clicks and chitters

Eramis tore his arm off on beyond light campaign

[remote sky]

that was also a robotic arm?

[devout vine]

And the wheezing is due to sustaining damage to his ether rebreather..

[remote sky]

his actual, organic arm

[devout vine]

Yh...
He has one prosthetic arm due to the docking

[dim minnow]

Variks had one of his robot arms torn off and crushed by Eramis at the start of Beyond Light

his original arms were docked by Skolas

[remote sky]

what happened to his organic arm

[dim minnow]

because he betrayed him near the end of the Reef Wars

[devout vine]

Skolas

[remote sky]

oh ok

[devout vine]

I can still remember the eliksni I learned from Skolas

Ir lovos Dra ta Kir

[remote sky]

wha

[devout vine]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-fallen-captain-gif-26894237

[devout vine]

It means the wolves stand strong

[dim minnow]

are you familiar with Skolas?

[remote sky]

..no :(

[dim minnow]

if not, then I can handle the history lesson

[remote sky]

thanks

[dim minnow]

ok, so a while ago, several Fallen Houses banded together to try and attack the Last City in what would be known as "Twilight Gap"

[devout vine]

Ahh memories

Go at it Dova

[dim minnow]

the House of Wolves were meant to join the battle and likely would have changed its outcome had they been there

[remote sky]

[dim minnow]

but Mara Sov decided to intervene (implied to be because Shaxx asked her to) by destroying 3 Ceres, the largest asteroid in the Asteroid Belt between Mars and Jupiter (where the Reef is)

[remote sky]

the reef was the asteroid or is the belt

[dim minnow]

3 Ceres was also the House of Wolves' main base of operations and its destruction delt a huge blow to the Fallen including the death of their original Kell

[dim minnow]

the Reef is a region of the Asteroid Belt

[remote sky]

aye

[dim minnow]

3 Ceres is just the largest asteroid

in fact, The Dreaming City was built on a giant disc made from the 2nd largest asteroid in the belt, 4 Vesta

[remote sky]

isn't Ceres like a moon or dwarf or something

[dim minnow]

anyways, so after Mara destroyed Ceres, the Wolves went to war with the Awoken in what would be known as The Reef Wars

[dim minnow]

dwarf planet, it's that huge

[remote sky]

[remote sky]

knew it
space dork space dork

[dim minnow]

so, the Reef Wars was a brutal and bloody war with losses on both sides

like Sjur Eido's accidental death at the hands of the Nine, the massacre at Amethyst where Petra's Sister, Pinar, was among the dead

[devout vine]

Have you played house of wolves?

[remote sky]

no???? how would I??

[dim minnow]

in the end, Variks decided to betray Skolas by luring Skolas into a trap

which was why Skolas docked Variks' arms

and I should mention that SKolas took command over the House of Wolves as their new Kell after the death of the previous one along with the deaths of his competitors

[devout vine]

Do you wish to speak to the fallen guardian? Talk to friends....in secret

[remote sky]

he never ask me that :(

[devout vine]

That's D1....
Good Times

[remote sky]

just "Help variksssssss..?"

[dim minnow]

so yeah, after Vriks' betrayal, the Reef Wars ended quickly and Skolas was imprisoned

[devout vine]

BTW...was House Judgment an old house of Riis?
Or was it founded following the end of the reef wars?

[dim minnow]

fast forward a little bit, and Mara Sov gifted Skolas to the Nine as compensation for Uldren having his crows spy on Rhea, a moon the Nine have control over

[dim minnow]

Judgement was an old house, but they always worked differently than other houses

as a sort of governing house that was present in all other houses

[remote sky]

And we still have no clue what or who the nine are. yaaay.

[dim minnow]

we do actually

[remote sky]

[dim minnow]

sentient clouds of space dust tied to the gravitational loops of each of Sol's planets

also bound to the life that lives on each of these worlds

[remote sky]

no way

wait

holy fucking hell

Pluto IS a planet then

[devout vine]

Plus the realms of the nine can be accessed via pockets of interdimendiobal loops attached to the physical plane

Hence the massive rock that Drifter lugged around that he got from the Nine

[remote sky]

so the sentient space dust guys are gods and have sorta throne worlds

[dim minnow]

eh

it's complicated

[remote sky]

I bet

and what does this make the horse?

[dim minnow]

in their domain, they are essentially gods, and they have a lot of power in our world, but they are very fragile

[remote sky]

just the horse the space dust like?

[dim minnow]

not referring to the Starhorse right?

[remote sky]

am

[dim minnow]

but the one in the giant Emissary room

[remote sky]

referring to starhorse

[devout vine]

Plus they have used this space dust as a means to predict the coming events....
That's why they gifted Drifter with gambit

[dim minnow]

starhorse is something else

[devout vine]

Effectively controlling the taken to bolster defences so to speak

[dim minnow]

Gambit was Drifter's idea, the Haul was their gift to him

[devout vine]

Of course...only Germaine would be so bold as to think that up

[dim minnow]

I'd argue that the main point was so the Nine would try and better understand Light and Dark

[devout vine]

I wonder how they would operate now considering our understanding of the both has exponentially changed

[dim minnow]

the horse I am referring to may be a reference to the Dark Horse nebula which is near the Corona Borealis Supercluster which some sort of signal is supposed to be from

anyways, back to Skolas history

[remote sky]

yes yes

[dim minnow]

so after the Nine were gifted Skolas, they decided to release him and gave him a ship

so Skolas returned and convinced the rest of the Wolves to rebel against Mara Sov, who took over as their Kell when Skolas was first beaten

then Mara opened up the Reef to the Guardians and had us go after the House of Wolves and Skolas, who was now bent on taking over every other Fallen House so he could become the Kell of Kells

[remote sky]

"was wolf once?" is that what that meant

[dim minnow]

who said that?

[remote sky]

armor piece

or smthn

[dim minnow]

is it Variks referring to himself?

[remote sky]

don't think so

I think it's in the scatterhorn set

[dim minnow]

hmmm

might be Spider referring to himself then

[remote sky]

no

he became a minion of the spider or smthn

[dim minnow]

Arrha or Avrok maybe

[remote sky]

"the spider's"

[dim minnow]

but yes, whoever said that was part of the House of Wolves

back to the lesson now

[devout vine]

They're spiders associates, Avrok and Arrha

[remote sky]

I'll check collections

[dim minnow]

so Skolas was able to take over Winter because we recently killed their Kell

[remote sky]

yep avrok

[dim minnow]

he tried to take over Devils and Kings, but we managed to prevent that which included us taking down the Silent Fang, the Wolves' top assassins

after that, Skolas went into the Vault of Glass in order to gain powerful Vex technology for himself

[remote sky]

Was wolf once. still wolf after scatter, but... different. Then Queen's. Wolf again. Bannerless. Then Spider's.

[devout vine]

Yh...
House of Winter was scattered and their munitions and gear left for spoils after Draksis died

[remote sky]

oh

[dim minnow]

this all culminated in us confronting him atop the Vex Citadel on Venus where we defeated him so he would be captured again

[dim minnow]

Draksis being the Kell we killed

[remote sky]

heard about this one

[devout vine]

although, Skolas pulled a devious move which involved pulling Wolves through time using vex tech

[dim minnow]

so, after being captured again, we would confront Skolas for the last time in the Prison of Elders where we would kill him

[devout vine]

We were able to defeat him and apprehend him to be detained in the prison of elders

[dim minnow]

now on to some interesting details

turns out Mara was in on the Nine releasing Skolas which was doen so both parties would be able to observe guardians more clearly

which Skolas realized when he took contrl over the Vex tech

which was why he was glad we would kill him in the PoE

[patent swallow]

question from friend whos new to Destiny that i dont know how to answer :"are there are any rules on what vex can and cannot simulate? based on the endless night cant they just simulate like a really big rock over the last city?"

[dim minnow]

because he did not want to be a pawn to them anymore

[dim minnow]

Vex can't simulate paracausality

[devout vine]

Despite many Kells being defeated, many of their house still lingered....

Fun fact: Praksis was a former member of House of Wolves who met Eramis during his time in the prison of elders

[patent swallow]

is a big rock paracausal

[dim minnow]

no, but the Traveler is

and so are guardians

so Vex fear us

[devout vine]

The paracausal aspect is impossible for them to replicate...as proven by the Veil's influence and their attempt to create a vex formed veil

Which failed

And that's the Black Gardens heart

[patent swallow]

so a simulated "big rock" would not affect a paracausal being

it would have to be a REAL "big rock"

[devout vine]

It wouldn't pose a threat nor would it be possible for it to possess the same fundamental qualities of a paracausal being

Case in point, the veil and the heart of the black garden

[dim minnow]

Guardians could probably find some way to stop the rock in a way the Vex can't predict

the Vex can't predict us so they can't act properly against us

[devout vine]

Perhaps we can integrate our influence into the vex network with Cloudstrided tech development

Nimbus can already access the network without the use of splicer tech

[dim minnow]

Asher Mir turned himself into a VEx so he can simulate the Veil

so yeah, that's pretty much the main history of Skolas

as for what happened to the House of Wolves, they tried to rebuild themselves on Mars after Skolas' death, but were thwarted by us when we destroyed their Prime Servitor, then they would go extinct when Reksis Vahn, the Hangman of the Scorn Barons, destroyed their remainign servitors

@remote sky

[remote sky]

amazing

[chrome fog]

He’s just old, even compared to Eramis who was alive back when the Whirlwind happened on Riis

[dim minnow]

yeah, Variks is very old for an Eliksni

imagine a live event with Variks on his deathbed and when he dies of old age, an ammo brick drops from him

[remote sky]

I have no idea what the fuck the vEIL does and I don't want to know until I have lightfall

[chrome fog]

I also saw the explanation of his rebreather, which is true

[dim minnow]

you mean Veil

[remote sky]

VEIL

[dim minnow]

don't worry, you won't find out even after playing Lightfall

[remote sky]

.

[chrome fog]

We actually have some info from the containment logs and Ahsa’s inkblot after Deep’s story

[devout vine]

Have you read the once shipstealer lore Buff?

[remote sky]

.nnoo

[chrome fog]

At best it’s just a repository of memories and consciousness from across the universe, and may have been part of the same entity as the Traveler/Gardener

[devout vine]

In it, you'll learn Varik's story alongside the rise of house salvation

Its really cool...give it a read

[remote sky]

..where

[devout vine]

Some of the Salvatjon lieutants alongside the barons all come from different houses and all have their stories

[dim minnow]

Bungie themselves called it a "Cosmic Collective Conciousness"

[chrome fog]

Check collections in-game, or Ishtar Collective which has essentially all the in-game lore entries for everything

[devout vine]

Try Byf or any other lore channel...
Alternatively, try the destiny companion app and check the lore book if you have it

[chrome fog]

Is byf getting any better or is he still spinfoiling?

[remote sky]

give up free will forever?

[dim minnow]

YOUR VOICES WON'T BE HEARD AT ALL

LIVE IN IGNORANCE AND PURCHASE YOUR HAPPINESS

I know that isn't the order of the lyrics, but that part is too good

[devout vine]

Not sure...
Last I checked, it's just speculation on his part at this point

[remote sky]

DISPLAY OBEDIENCE
WHILE NEVER STEPPING OUT OF LINE

[chrome fog]

Not really (also how’d you come to that conclusion from Collective Conciousness);
More so it seems that the Veil is something akin to Warhammer’s the Warp, where everyone generally has their own independent thoughts and consciousness, but are also connected by a greater realm; for the Veil, it’s probably just a large black box of all the thoughts of every being in existence

[devout vine]

Also, here's a part of house of wolves which was really good

[dim minnow]

let your country control your mind

[remote sky]

so he doesn't know English?

[chrome fog]

Not initially

Because y’know

Aliens

[devout vine]

[remote sky]

yuh

[devout vine]

Many of the eliksni can speak English

[remote sky]

I do wonder why Eramis bothered to learn

[devout vine]

The problem is....that eliksni translated to English isn't complete

[dim minnow]

I may be a loser in the real world, but in the Vex network, you are the loser

[remote sky]

besides for talking to us

[chrome fog]

Yes, but many of them were born not too long before and during the time their species has occupied our solar system

[devout vine]

Indeed...
The vex network is the crib fr

[dim minnow]

same with Cabal, and apparently Hive already spoke it

[remote sky]

[remote sky]

oh?

[devout vine]

Yh....many hatchlings left after the whirlwind couldn't be taught proper ancient eliksni

[dim minnow]

The Witness shivers when a nice guy loses his cool

[devout vine]

Plus...most eliksni had turned to a life of piracy and murder in the name of the traveller

[remote sky]

wonder what would make a nice guy lose that cool

[chrome fog]

Actually bigger issue is that Eliksni symbols were somewhat used willy nilly with no regard to direct translation, at least until Sarsion decided to take it upon himself to try and translate Eliksni script
With the Cabal there was a similar issue but thankfully Skyburner or whatever the cabal exotic is has the ammo count in cabal lettering; this snowballed into some translation and now we somewhat know both Eliksni and Cabal script

[devout vine]

Yh...progress with newfound allies and new research have allowed last city scholars to identify direct translations...especially for the sake of strategic merits

[chrome fog]

Where are you getting this from? There’s nothing I’ve read which implies this, it’s just that for the convenience of speaking with humanity, most alien species have adopted English(/whatever language you have set to)

[chrome fog]

Not literally irl

[devout vine]

Plus the reason why Varik's was so valuable in house of wolves

[dim minnow]

more like for their own survival

Variks is a scribe which is why Eramis decided to take him in

[devout vine]

Doesn't really matter anyway....
If there were teachings to be had from Riis, its all gone now with the whirlwind...
Most newfound hatchling that started their life in the sol system naturally adapted to English regardless

[chrome fog]

That’s… that’s not in game, that’s in real life; Bungie wasn’t really using Eliksni letters as actual script and just put them in any arrangement, though through influence of Sarsion’s - an actual real life person, he’s just a guy and he’s cool and likes Sonic - research they’ve been using it to actually write words instead of gibberish

[devout vine]

True....
Plus it's really cool to see her slowly descend into madness when exposed to stasis...
Even her demeanour and views on variks changes

[chrome fog]

That doesn’t make any sense when Eliksni culture in its present state hinges what happened in the Whirlwind

[devout vine]

I know its gibberish...
That's why Sarsion has been able to piece it all together

[chrome fog]

No that’s not

Like there was no set linguistic rules in which Eliksni characters were being used by Bungie to spell words

It was literally gibberish

Even if you translated it

[devout vine]

Of course its all gibberish....same way any fictional language is made for the sake of World building

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-annoyed-stöhn-oh-no-oh-nein-gif-24943313

[devout vine]

[chrome fog]

Ok here

To illustrate,

Sars’ own tweet

https://twitter.com/Sarsion/status/1666351577429409793?s=20

Sarsion (@Sarsion)

drifter’s bottle has eliksni glyphs that spell out “juice of seven”.

this is the first and only time since the destiny shirt in 2013 that they’ve been used 1:1 with english chars.

the glyphs can often join together like jigsaws (this would be e+n) but here are written separate.

Likes

1219

Retweets

118

Twitter · Jun 7, 2023, 7:49 AM

[chrome fog]

And also not all fictional languages are just garbled gobble-de-gook, some are fully constructed languages or just symbols which you replace the alphabet with

[dim minnow]

wasn't Lord of the Rings made around Tolkien's created elven language or something?

[chrome fog]

Maybe, Mael would know better

I think he’s read the series

[dim minnow]

he is European after all

[chrome fog]

A lot of the Cryptarchy has actually, a handful of them

[devout vine]

Exactly....
Elvish wasn't in any way...
Revamped version of any language

Tolkien created the 15 dialects himself

[chrome fog]

Mmmmmrrggh

https://tenor.com/view/stressed-worried-anxious-rubbing-temples-oh-no-gif-10042095

[chrome fog]

All I’m saying, is that there’s a difference between slinging random alien characters around and actually constructing a new language, even one that just replaces the English alphabet’s letters with different symbols

Which itself is a response to your claim that Eliksni to English translation isn’t complete, when it is it just hasn’t been used properly by Bungie until recently

Which that in of itself was part of a claim that Eliksni knowledge of their old ways had all but dissolved as time has passed, when 1) there are still individuals relatively young in their species who remember the Whirlwind and wouldn’t just forget about what that event took from them; and 2) the entire obsession with Houses and Kells was partially dictated from the former structure of their society back on Riis, and was brought back in pursuit of the title of Kell of Kells

Misraaks, someone who’s younger than the Whirlwind, gravely understands the effect it’s had on his people and is actively working against Eramis/the general Eliksni dogma of getting revenge on the Traveler for leaving them during that crisis

He’s even taken up the old Eliksni profession of Splicing, taking up the mantle of Sacred Splicer after the House of Devils somewhat perverted the title during the SIVA Crisis

[trim grotto]

what's up buttercup

[dim minnow]

the European arrives

[real ingot]

A language he created then made his first book after

[trim grotto]

ah we're talking Low Speak huh

alright

[dim minnow]

something something the Whirlwind and its consequences have been a disaster for Eliksni society

[trim grotto]

the short answer is that outside of niche D1 cases and Drifter's funny bottle, those glyphs are not used in a canonical context
this goes for pretty much all eliksni glyphs, symbols, and writing, except for of course the House banners

they exist as Cool Symbols™️ and nothing else in most contexts

this is something outright stated by a member of the narrative team

Drifter's funny bottle, Juice Of Seven™️, is an exception. A great thing, to be sure, but exception nonetheless.

Then there's the other end of Eliksni language

Eliksni language that's actually written, for example Velask, is a language - we just don't know it yet, and don't have a way to determine new words beyond the lore dripfeed. However, certain Chinese translations are delightfully literal, meaning we can use those translations to determine what the words actually mean.

As for Sarsion's translations of actual spoken words from in game back in D1? Sorry. No dice.

[dim minnow]

so Sarsion's translations is just made up?

[trim grotto]

well yes and no

he put legitimate work and effort into it but he basically brute forced it

[devout vine]

He did say in his video that his translations were based on intuition and educated guesses based on separating syllabels

Like for example

[trim grotto]

yes, which was later basically discredited

you don't need to give me an example i've slept in his house

[devout vine]

Draka for stand...
He made Dra ka for all rise

[devout vine]

Truly the Lord of lore

[trim grotto]

anyway that's why the words we do know don't really fit with the old translation attempts

but Juice Of Nine being a thing is a hilarious addition that really made his day

[raven glen]

Saint a robot

[dim minnow]

isn't it Juice of Seven?

[trim grotto]

yeah that

[devout vine]

Juice of Seven...
Must taste like shiii

[dim minnow]

that was the bottle he had in Deep right?

when he met up with Sloane

[trim grotto]

yeppers

[dim minnow]

trying to wonder what it is a reference to

I know the Seven part

[devout vine]

Yh...some dark age recipe

Battery acid or something

https://tenor.com/view/drifter-destiny2-ding-tag-flick-gif-16330328

[empty fern]

Who the seven?

[trim grotto]

[empty fern]

Damnit

[trim grotto]

brewery probably

[empty fern]

You think efrideet came there often?

[devout vine]

Some shii ahh drink I suppose...
It ain't Pepsi I'll tell you that

[empty fern]

Also speaking of efree, what was the context of her showing up at a bar drifter was at and wrecking the place?

[dim minnow]

I got this one

ok, so a Warlord named Citan and two of his goons (also Warlords) went into Drifter's bar and demanded that he hands them over all of his food

[empty fern]

It’s found in the citans exotic lore?

[dim minnow]

so then Efrideet shows up and bodies all three of them and letting their Ghosts leave

[dim minnow]

no, that is just Citan being an asshole

[empty fern]

Ah

[devout vine]

Clutched a 3v1...
Using immortal as usual

[dim minnow]

the entry is one of the pages in "A Man With No Name"

[trim grotto]

totally separate instance of assholeishness

[devout vine]

[empty fern]

Oh nice

[dim minnow]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/loose-ends-pt-i?highlight=efrideet+bar

here it is

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/loose-ends-pt-ii?highlight=efrideet+bar

nvm, there was also a part two

read both the entries @empty fern

[trim grotto]

read all entries ever @empty fern

consume all lore

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-pattinson-lighthouse-screaming-shout-scared-gif-17035752

Nexus after absorbing the entire Lore behind Destiny in an instant

[empty fern]

I’m trying hush

So drifters other name was wu Ming?

Honestly great story

Cheeky of him asking her to a dance

[trim grotto]

Well, one of them.

[empty fern]

Oh yea

[dim minnow]

Wu Ming literally means "no name" as well

[empty fern]

Damnit

[dim minnow]

Germaine was another Alias of his

[empty fern]

You think his ghost ever gave him a name?

[dim minnow]

Dredgen Hope as well

[dim minnow]

he didn't trust her enough for that

[empty fern]

Ah

You think they could have ended like Gilgamesh and his ghost?

[dim minnow]

I wonder if we will ever get any development on their relationship

[dim minnow]

Gilly and Katabasis was a whole different thing

[empty fern]

Probably in episode 5 of fs

[trim grotto]

Drifter's Ghost, despite Drifter's issues, still trusts Drifter himself.

[empty fern]

True

[devout vine]

I'd say there's more of a chance with eris and drifter developing more....
It'd be nice to see how it all goes