📚lore-discussion

[slim elk]

Nezarec:I shall haunt vee via paparazzi

[chrome fog]

@dim minnow do you have a list of Petra’s crimes?

[slim elk]

here is da list

[dim minnow]

@chrome fog freak pulled it up

[smoky rose]

Apparently Jisu is Ghost

Not in any in-game way

But apparently they share a VA

[slim elk]

Theres a few mixed VAs in Destiny

Variks be Savathuns Worm

And Amanda's is also caitals

[green cobalt]

Devrim and Toland

[frigid kiln]

Is it true that solar abilities burn as hot if not hotter than stars?

[smoky rose]

Some of them are quite literally stars

[chrome fog]

Some of it is poetic language, but they can get about as hot

[dim minnow]

Ana Bray can shoot Golden Gun shots that travel for light years

Solar abilities burning as hot as the sun wouldn't be a surprising upper limit

[blazing wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-doctor-octopus-the-power-of-the-sun-in-the-palm-of-my-hand-sun-gif-23770857

[deep pagoda]

What are the known warlock orders and what are they about?

Also is there a order of guardians based around the Vex

[tulip knoll]

Praxic locks and uh

Idk

[deep pagoda]

Praxic is the Crusader warlocks who hunt down darkness users yeah?

[dim minnow]

Praxic Order is very zealous for the Light

then there are the Cryptochrons

this order sought knowledge from the Black Garden

in particular, the stump of Silver WIngs

[smoky rose]

Thanatonauts are primarily warlocks

[dim minnow]

those guys kill themselves a lot

and research new ways to kill themselves

[smoky rose]

(it lets them see the future, allegedly)

[dim minnow]

not just the future I believe

[smoky rose]

Hmmm

Yo Dova

[dim minnow]

they were also able to help in building Hard Light (or it was another exotic)

[dim minnow]

yes?

[smoky rose]

If we assume the other side of the portal is a an Akashic Record

You think Thanatonauts access it when they kill themselves?

[dim minnow]

not a bad idea

I was hoping for Ganymede though

[smoky rose]

Would explain the dead Cayde in there

[deep pagoda]

What about the Gensym scribes

[deep pagoda]

And tell me more about this!

[dim minnow]

they had Rekkana and her fireteam go in there since they saw them with the Divinity trace rifle in a vision

they were also exiled from the Last City

[deep pagoda]

I mean like what’s there story, that dosnt say much

Was it just one Fireteam that did one thing that call themselves an order?

[dim minnow]

I think Rekkana was the only member of the Kentarch 3 who was actually part of the order

and we don't really have much on them other than that

[deep pagoda]

Damn

What about the Gensym scribes

[dim minnow]

those guys originated from the Distributary

aka the Awoken birthplace

there was an excerpt briefly going over them

In later days, the power of the Queen waned, and the Distributary was ruled by scholars who sent their knights on mad quests to test the consistence of reality. These were the Gensym Scribes, who traced their origin to Kelda Wadj, the Allteacher, but who were in fact descendants of a band of roving storytellers who traveled across the immense salt glades in a hollering convoy of airboats.

Now in the court of one of the Scribes, there appeared a woman of stellar height and furious wrath, armed with a bow that could be strung only if she twined it around her body and used her whole mass to bend it. "I am Sjur Eido," said the woman, "and I accuse Mara of the ancient murder of my lady the Diasyrm. In my saddle, I have a weapon with only one death remaining. Take me to Mara, and I will deliver it."

The Scribes consulted and said to each other that this foul murder might prevent another Theodicy War. So they gave Sjur Eido all their knowledge to hunt Mara.```

[rich veldt]

i believe it was hardlight

[deep pagoda]

Asher Mir was in the group right?

[dim minnow]

Asher Mir is a Gensym Scribe

though his origins prior to becoming a Guardian are unclear

and it seems the group is not neccessarily a Warlock Order since its origins are tied to the Awoken in the Distributary

it just so happens that Warlocks align the most with the group

[deep pagoda]

Is there any other warlock orders that are noteable

Or guardian orders

[dim minnow]

some Titan orders

Sunbreakers
Pilgrim Guard

Hunters don't really organize into orders

the closest we have to one is the Six Coyotes who were a group of Hunters who first scouted the Cosmodrome

[nimble surge]

Story behind gumshoe armor?

Bc it says (one line from each piece) "three nights of stalking, ain't a lead or a notion to carry me. My partner asks why we keep matching this path. Instinct, I tell her. But maybe I just can't stand to be wrong on a hunch." Any ties to characters or no?

[deep pagoda]

Gumshoe = detective

Anybody got a website or video on the Gensym scribes

Also how did they become a warlock order?

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh answers my question perfectly thank you 🙏

[trim grotto]

There's little to say that isn't from the Marasenna

But presumably the Earthborn decided to make a new order of Gensym, much like the City made their own Cryptarchy branch

[chrome fog]

Is this just from the base flavor text or is there a lore tab attached as well?

Give me a minute

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[trim grotto]

It's a meaningless tale reminiscent of classic old style detective stories

Hence "gumshoe"

[chrome fog]

Ah, seems to be that way from searching them up

Though with them all put together like that I was a bit confuzzled

[ember storm]

columbo real

[wind belfry]

he's canon to the d2 universe

[trim grotto]

Technically, he may possibly be.

[exotic cloak]

Is there a real reason why the traveler doesn't speak or tries to communicate with us?

I'm reading around and apparently done consciously but what's the point

The races that she has abandoned hate her because they don't understand the reason why they were abandoned

[trim grotto]

Yes.
For a being such as the Traveler, worshipped as a god, any word or action would be considered a commandment. An unintentional influence.
And the Traveler desires independent freedom of will and choice above all.

She does not exist to guide life, simply to provide it means to advance.

[exotic cloak]

I guess, but seeing the origin of the witness now confuses me

Why not talk and prevent them from going further?

[trim grotto]

She tried, with Clovis. He didn't listen. Took her visions of warning as promises of the future.

[exotic cloak]

I understand that Fynch It is a prove and that our Ghost directly says that the traveler has no real control over them

But is there some kind of document that talks about that?

[tawdry wigeon]

i have 2 questions. first the guy that got killed by that huge cabal that tried to steal the light idr his name the one that spoke to the traveler, who was he and how did he have the ability to hear him? and 2nd question who is the drifter really?

[slim elk]

Drifter is simple, Dark Age Risen{Guardian] who saw the worst the other Risen and ghosts had to offer and decided not to get involved

As the cabal thing.. the big Cabal is named Ghaul and the white robed guy is the Speaker

Speaker "was" the leader of the City.. but its a bad term. Traveler never spoke to him but rather instead received vague dreams that he could interpret

[tawdry mauve]

The drifter is one of the oldest guardians we know rn

[slim elk]

Was one of a number who could receive such visions.

[tawdry mauve]

dude has been risen for a pretty long time

he spent a lot of time in the dark ages similliar to saladin

[tawdry wigeon]

Dark ages? When was that exactly?

[tawdry mauve]

Post golden age

when ghosts first appeared

a lot of the first lightbearers were so called warlords

[tawdry wigeon]

Also i see it as a common thing for the traveler to be communicating through dreams

[tawdry wigeon]

Like what nimbus called us. What was that period like?

[tawdry mauve]

i mean

they are called the dark ages

and there were warlords

you can fill in the blanks i think

[tawdry wigeon]

No i understand it was bad but like do we have any idea of how were the ppl back then? Also im confused about ghosts. I dont remember eliksni having them why did humans have them?

[tawdry mauve]

the eliksni never had them

the humans are the first to get ghosts

[tawdry mauve]

" do we have any idea of how were the ppl back then" of course we do

but its a really loaded question

this is an entire period in time in the d2 universe

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh damn i didn't know

I'll try to find somewhere to read about it

[fresh zephyr]

How do I get started on knowing the lore

[devout nimbus]

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/difference-of-opinion#book-ghost-stories

[peak coral]

there was that 1 entry about like

ghost talking with rhulk

rhulk tempts the ghost

[ember storm]

Rhulk wasn't tempting the ghost

[peak coral]

ghost agrees then gets shut by traveler

[ember storm]

he grabbed it out of the air and was actively taking it apart

[peak coral]

oh

[ember storm]

it asked to be let go

[peak coral]

me when my memory is ass

[ember storm]

Rhulk ignored it

so the traveler had to mercy kill it

[peak coral]

oh

makes more sense now

[ember storm]

the only thing the ghost "agreed" upon was the idea it's looking for someone

Rhulk just proclaimed himself as more than worthy while also killing the ghost

[slim elk]

The noteworthy part is the Traveler actually communicated through the ghost in that

[ember storm]

this leads in to the collective obligation tab where Rhulk is just sifting through piles of ghost fragments while talking to himself

[slim elk]

First time seen it speak bluntly with no visions or dreams

[exotic cloak]

Thanks

[empty fern]

What we talking about today

[chrome fog]

Considering he’s a late 90s-early 00s tv show, definitely canon

[ember storm]

columbo

[chrome fog]

Ironically the name of that individual was the Speaker, a role that had existed since the Golden Age, and resurfaced recently as humanity on Earth began to coalesce once more instead of warring against each other. The Traveler “spoke” to Speakers through enigmatic dreams and visions, and sometimes not at all. What the Speakers tasked themselves to do is guide the people through what they believe the Traveler would want them to do

[empty fern]

Ah

And drifter is a freaky lightbearer

So freaky that he intrigued the nine for a bit

[chrome fog]

It got Middle Ages Europe bad, fall of Rome bad; for context, Warlords like Citan horded food, riches, and general resources, holding an advantage over Lightless humans in order to give themselves cushy lives. When Felwinter then formed the Iron Lords, he sought to reform Lightbearer society into one that protected the weak, though with Drifter’s story (A Man with No Name lore book), we see some of those Iron Lords still held some of their warlord tendencies

[chrome fog]

Not really freaky, just very pragmatic

Also he was buddies with Orin, whomst was forcefully recruited by the Nine as their liaison to the rest of reality, since when they remolded Xur into his form they weren’t completely correct in his composition and now his molecules are ripping apart

[empty fern]

Hmph

[ember storm]

Shaxx tracked down some beggars who stole food from him during a famine (guardians don't really need it to live) and killed them with his bare hands :)

now i'm hungry

farewell

[chrome fog]

This might be helpful
https://youtu.be/om28A9hTST0

[empty fern]

Narrated by yours truly, cookie grandma

[chrome fog]

Grammy Levante

[past tree]

fun fact, traveler isn't god because it created us? give us a new life, God officially took life of our guardians.?

[chrome fog]

Wrong

But also right

[past tree]

god of guardians*

[chrome fog]

Hmmm, you worded this weirdly

[past tree]

yeah my english like a--1

Zavala: Traveler is not a god

[empty fern]

God of a force that transformed our species

[past tree]

the idea comes in my head while listening this,, I thinked about making this with Traveler edit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HdmOD-1Tuo&t=26s

[chrome fog]

As demonstrated by the Shadows of Yor, that one dude by the title “Ghost Killer”, and a couple others, some Guardians actively rebel against the ideals of the Traveler.
There’s also the fact that Zavala’s faith was shaken by guardians wielding Strand as well as allowing Savathun’s brood to have Lightbearers of their own. Zavala is also a stick in the mud, but he comes around

Relatively speaking she is still a god

WAIT

NO, SOMEBODY DID NOT TURN THAT SONG INTO A TECHNO REMIX AND THEN PUT IT OVER A GENSHIN CHARACTER

[ember storm]

the true god is columbo

[past tree]

it had techno remix 10 years ago I guess, but genshin edit is new

[chrome fog]

WHAT THE FUCK

[past tree]

14 year bro 👀 at least its have only techno, no phonk or speed up things yet.

[chrome fog]

I’m more in awe that that specific song got a techno remix

Anyways, back to lore

Traveler - and her shell/physical form at this current point in the narrative - provides us with Light with which we use for our abilities

[past tree]

kinda Weapon seller

selling us weapons for using defend her enemies

[chrome fog]

To defend others

Here give me a minute, Freak also had a difficult time comprehending what her goals are

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/the-wager

[empty fern]

Massive highlights

[chrome fog]

I’ve just given up cause it gets the message across

Anyways, that’s the Traveler’s belief, and what the Witness is disgusted with

Because the Witness is of the same mind that only the Strong deserve to live, that you earn your right to exist, by virtue of instilling the Sword Logic into the Hive through a convoluted process

[tawdry wigeon]

Bro damn you replied twice to my questions that others wouldn't have the time or want to answer thank you very much!

Btw is the Light - hope Darkness - Perspective true for all darkness? We've seen twice that the Darkness works the opposite way than the light

[past tree]

Darkness just slapping everyone with facts right? every truth

[tawdry wigeon]

Also does the traveler have a physical form? Aint no way its just a huge ball. I have high hopes that we will see her in the final shape

[ember storm]

that is a physical form

[tawdry wigeon]

For real he is always speaking the truth

[versed orbit]

is unveiling a lie now

[ember storm]

is unveiling is to be believed, that's the whole point

[ember storm]

not really

bungie has been trying to convey the idea that stuff with some inaccuracies shouldn't be entirely written off

[past tree]

She probably have a body? what if circle shape is just kinda shield? not thinking about that, but if Traveler have kind of form like Witness, it would be amazing to see during Final Shape

[ember storm]

it's what truth to power was meant for

[tawdry wigeon]

Unveiling a lie? What lie?

[ember storm]

the traveler and witness are fundamentally different

so comparing them isn't really going to do anything

[tawdry wigeon]

Yeaaaaa

[tawdry wigeon]

Well its just nice theorizing tbh

[ember storm]

the witness is just a bunch of people who decided to mesh together into some thing

[slim elk]

Witness is the amalagate form of the first race the Traveler uplifted. Technically its mortal

[tawdry wigeon]

Jesus what kind of form is that?

Cool and disturbing too

[past tree]

the final shape

[ember storm]

the unibrow is vital to the process, definitely

emphasis on the U

[slim elk]

We dont know the specifics of how it pulled it off.. But in verse it was compared to the basis of the Cloudark over in Neomuna

So if its not the same process, its pretty damn similar

Ikora and Zavala also debated if the whole race went with the process willingly, or if a few key figures lead them to do it

[ember storm]

i mean we're visually shown some of the process

which uh

involved dismemberment and piles of bodies

so

[chrome fog]

Darkness is not doing anything because it is a facet of a force - Paracausality- of the universe, it’d be like saying Gravity has it out for you

[ember storm]

I AM GOING TO KILL WINTER BECAUSE IT MAKES ME COLD

[past tree]

I still want to see what is that female body statues, wife of witness

[chrome fog]

Probably a visage of the Gardener with both forms brought together or smth

[ember storm]

honestly? probably just some thing the witness' people interpreted the traveler to be like

idols to worship

[slim elk]

Its worth a note the Pyramids were forged with Light instead of Dark per the origin cutscene

[tawdry wigeon]

So darkness just "exists"

[slim elk]

Light and Dark are the forces
Gardener and Winnower are the "wills" behind it

the current question is what exactly the "Winnower" has done

[chrome fog]

This is usually prior to Beyond Light - hell, even Arrivals - where you see the opposing dichotomy between Light and Darkness. With new information, we have discovered this is due to these forms of Darkness being influenced or corrupted by the Witness in some way; Stasis is a good example, as by the Guardian/Young Wolf’s example it can be controlled through your own will, but the Witness was “gifting” it to House Salvation with the caveat that they had to wear the pyramid splinters to get a handle on Stasis, effectively keeping them hostage so long as they continued to use Stasis

[chrome fog]

Very very technically, Light and Darkness exists throughout all the universe, but to the degree that one because a paracausal power house requires greater amounts of Light and Darkness respectively

[tawdry wigeon]

So the witness is not the one that was with the gardener.

[chrome fog]

This also ties into the Light = Physical Dark = Mental/Metaphysical dichotomy we have started to see being pushed by Bungie

[ember storm]

that's the point of unveiling

[tawdry wigeon]

Omg

Im dum

[ember storm]

at the very least, it's what the witness' people believe to be true

[chrome fog]

They are a mortal race - a “flower” within the metaphor of the Garden, one it uses for itself - who told us everything said in Unveiling (and was transcripts by Eris, who heard it through the Relic on Luna - the thing on the table next to her)

[slim elk]

We'll probably get solid answers next season.... from Savathun.

[tawdry wigeon]

And what about winnower?

[chrome fog]

Our leading theory is that the “Winnower” is an idealized version of the Witness species’ deity, as they feel entitled to a specific purpose to life that the Traveler refused to give them and the Veil kinda stood there while they learned about the Darkness by studying it

[slim elk]

best guess?
Veil=Winnower
or the closest thing that semantics and current understanding will allow

[tawdry wigeon]

So he is from one of the races? The first one that got left behind?

[tawdry wigeon]

Alright alright 👌

[chrome fog]

There’s a cutscene from this season which details the Witness’ origins, I’ll share it here

https://youtu.be/Z0CKckjryVI

[tawdry wigeon]

Hm emphasis on the idealise

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh i havent done that quest yet so i wouldnt know lemme check it out rq

[slim elk]

The wild card in all this is Savathun, shes had a much larger role then we previously thought
Given the whole hijacking the Veil and curbstomping nezarec
Ahsa also had to be in on Savathuns plans... thus directing us to revive the Witch Queen

[chrome fog]

Thing is the Veil does not fit the description of the Winnower in any form, yet the Witness follows more closely to the Winnower’s ideals and we see after the Witness species had studied the Darkness from the Veil that the Veil itself (supposedly, we’re learning more from the Veil containment logs as they progress) started to demonstrate traits of the Winnower ie acting like the Witness. And yet still, it did nothing during the Lightfall campaign even as we developed the Strand subclass ourselves. We’re once again in uncertain territory, but we’ve got a few working theories that just require more information

Hell, the Veil corrupting Maya could just be the Witness again depending on how jank the mechanics of accessing the Darkness are

[slim elk]

thus why I said the "closest thing that semantics and curent understanding will allow"
Winnower was claimed to the source of Darkness, and the veil by all appearances is that

Witness is unrelated to the origins of the Veil as they found the thing

[chrome fog]

I am not reading the Freak man messages

Pulls too much shit it’s a headache

[slim elk]

[ says as they read and replied to one lol]

[tawdry wigeon]

What about the last part? Resurrection of sav?

[ember storm]

i mean it's going to happen

bungie left her ghost alive for a reason

plus it was directly referenced

so

[tawdry wigeon]

Also the cutsene is making his existence soooo much clearer now

Why wouldnt the veil connect to the traveler?

[ember storm]

long story short savathun is not only the reason for the traveler surviving the collapse, but also the veil being taken away and hidden from the witness

[tawdry wigeon]

"connect"

[ember storm]

they tried

the traveler ran away

[tawdry wigeon]

So savathun will be with us now?

[slim elk]

thats the end of current season. Ahsa directed us to let Savathun be revived as we have her corpse

The unsaid implication is Ahsa was in league with Savathun to even say thats that we should do

[smoky rose]

Because it gives you the source code to the universe

And lets you edit it

The traveler wants diversity and chaos

The witness does not

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhhhh

So these two together are a cheat code

Got it

What about the hole in the middle of it? We know what it means?

[slim elk]

Basically, Witness is well on its way to become THE God of the universe

[ember storm]

what hole

the veil just looks like that just because

[tawdry wigeon]

Ohhh ight got it

[slim elk]

I think they mean the portal

[smoky rose]

Eh

[tawdry wigeon]

The triangle

[ember storm]

how much of the game have you actually played?

just genuine question here

no criticisms

[tawdry wigeon]

From when mercury was in game up until now

Not the season of the deep tho yet

[ember storm]

yeah but what does that mean

[tawdry wigeon]

I just got the dlc

Ive played like 4 seasons only in total

[slim elk]

Put it this way, Ahsa was cut off long before Savathun was enacting her "get light plan"

Yet Ahsa is privy to not only the Witness origins but also says Savathun can help us with the portal.. with Savathun known to have been doing stuff on Titan before the place was "taken"

[chrome fog]

🖕

[tawdry wigeon]

Sorry if im asking stupid stuff that we already know @ember storm

[slim elk]

How would Ahsa know Savathun could help... unless she was privy to parts of Savathuns plans?

[chrome fog]

Nah it’s fine, just need to gauge where your knowledge is so we can help you

[ember storm]

do we even know if either of the two monster sightings on titan were ahsa?

[slim elk]

Theres confirmation Ahsa was there in the Golden Age from stuff Sloane encountered

[tawdry wigeon]

I know the bits and pieces from the story and I'm trying to connect them all together

[mystic raven]

Is cayde coming back

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea

[mystic raven]

it was in the teaser

💯

[ember storm]

and?

i'm talking about the titan sea monsters you'd see in the location

the classic sea serpent thing on the surface and then the thing that just looked like a big parasite

[slim elk]

Aye, saying theres no confirmation but the two likely candidates are either Ahsa or oryx's worm

[chrome fog]

That’s great, the best part is just how open you are to the lore, honestly you’re doing a bit better than most other people who get into the lore; sometimes they’ll jump in here, listen to the lore we cite to them, say it’s bs, and then leave the channel

[tawdry wigeon]

Dude i loveeeee lore stuff! And theorizing too! Like its been days that I've been thinking about lore so much that i cant hold it in and i wanna tell it to other ppl my ideas lmao

[chrome fog]

What the fuck do you mean Oryx’s worm

[smoky rose]

Oryx's?

If anything Savathun's

[chrome fog]

A Worm experimented on by Savathun, if at all

[slim elk]

...
Did you miss the fact that oryx's corpse was in Titan oceans and his worm was specifically unaccounted for in the dungeon lore?

[chrome fog]

Since, y’know, Titán was a lab for Savathun

[ember storm]

because hive worms automatically die when the host dies

[smoky rose]

Yes and his body was monitored until Titan got thanos snapped

[ember storm]

they're parasites

oryx died in the vacuum of space

[smoky rose]

It wasn't on titan until recently

[ember storm]

his worm just shriveled up

[chrome fog]

His worm would be dead with him dipshit, it wouldn’t be squirming outside of his corpse

[ember storm]

hive worms only pop out of hive corpses when you shoot their heads off, and then they just shrivel up moments later

something as hungry as Oryx's worm wouldn't survive more than a few without tribute

[slim elk]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mark-of-the-taken-king#taken-king-suit-titan
hey dipshit, check this

Autopsy revealed no presence of worm carcass within TKO-300 remains. Status unknown.

If guys wanna keep throwing insults despite the evidence right here.. Feel free heh

[ember storm]

did you just type out heh

unironically

[versed orbit]

paulie

[slim elk]

Amused that bionic is so hostile and insulting they arent checking the basic lore we had

[chrome fog]

And even if the same thing happening to Oryx’s corpse is happening to his worm, would it have the same authority over the Taken and gain tribute like that? Probably the fuck not since it took Oryx a long while to fall into Saturn and Titan

[chrome fog]

You’re a fucking character alright

[ember storm]

i mean the basic lore is that hive worms are parasites, so without their host they die

it's literally never been something where the worm exists afterward

[slim elk]

So where is oryx's worm then?

[chrome fog]

Even with this, Oryx hasn’t even realized he’s kind of alive, who’d say his worm does

[ember storm]

savathun is the only instance of this because it was surgically removed through magic

[chrome fog]

DEAD

[ember storm]

let me ask you this

[slim elk]

Its not dead in oryx.. despite everything saying it should be heh

[ember storm]

how it would it survive without a host

where would it survive

with an appetite like that

[chrome fog]

And this is what I mean Freak pulls shit

[ember storm]

it's not like any hive could just wander out and take it

they'd have to work with an appetite built off of eons of being the god king of the hive, second only to the worm gods themselves

the worm would just eat them in a heartbeat and then starve

[chrome fog]

Reddit-ass argument, by the Traveler

[ember storm]

i am still hungry

farewell

[chrome fog]

I am also going to eat food

[slim elk]

Anyway, its clear that something weird is going on with oryx's corpse. Typical behaviour isnt being seen with it

The worm being MIA is definite cause for concern

[ember storm]

he's not a typical guy

[slim elk]

So why so adadmant the same rules apply to his worm?

the source of most of his power?

[ember storm]

the worm is still just a worm

[smoky rose]

The worm is definitely not the one on Titan

That is 100%

Because when we could see the worm on Titan

Oryx's body was still in orbit

[ember storm]

Savathun’s worm becoming the most demanding and hungry worm out of potentially any and still just being the size of a normal one

[slim elk]

Aye
So leaves the sea monster sighting as either Ahsa [years long foreshadowing on Bungies part?]
or just random sea creature

Given resemblance to Hive Worms.. most likely it was Ahsa

[ember storm]

and yet ahsa is related to the worm gods

which are entirely different in look to what the parasites are

the parasites aren’t proper creatures

they were engineered by Rhulk

[smoky rose]

It's also a worm god, you know, before they got upgraded by the darkness

Did Sathona look like Savathun? No, not really.

[ember storm]

comparing the krill to the hive, they just got bigger and have more chitin

they still have the fundamentals of being bipedal with three eyes

the worm parasites are short and stubby with three eyes located in the center of some head

the worm gods have this massive gaping maw, eyes covering their entire bodies, with one in the center of the head

[tawdry wigeon]

I have a question about the hive specifically the luna ones. Why were they red again?

[ember storm]

because they’re red

different hive broods have different colors and shape altogether

Oryx’s armies were pale and purple

[chrome fog]

I am back from consuming calories

[ember storm]

I’m in my pantry

I don’t know what to do

[chrome fog]

Mmm smart

Sit and consume in the pantry

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh i see alright lol

[chrome fog]

I think not even Headquarters, resident Hive expert, knows exactly why they became red, it’s a weird situation

[ember storm]

I mean there doesn’t have to be a reason

they were red in D1

that’s just what they’re like

I think Savathun is the only one who actually matches the color of her brood and even then

they’re all mostly white with light green highlights in unique rounder shape

[slim elk]

We seen Hive range from red, black, white, even yellowish greens

[tawdry mauve]

even blue

[ember storm]

Savathun is all green and has the classic crusty chitin

[tawdry wigeon]

Black hive?

And white?

When was that?

[slim elk]

Also muddying things..
Wasnt Kelgorath originally Hidden Swarm?

{the red ones?]

[ember storm]

Kelgorath? Yeah

he got a career change

[chrome fog]

The hive on Savathun’s Throneworld have black chitin and her Lightbearers have more white chitin, though that’s been mostly standard across most Hive

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh damn i didnt notice that

[slim elk]

Just shows that Hive can change their colors if permitted

[ember storm]

it’s just armor

Kelgorath was changing his armor time we saw him

is N even in the anime

[slim elk]

...
Pokemon?

[ember storm]

wrong server

excuse me while I make Mac and cheese

[tawdry wigeon]

Sooo drifter dislikes the light. Hmm why so?

[slim elk]

All the antic of the Warlords pillaging and terrifying the survivors of the Collapse

As well as never asking to be revived and starving to death mutiple times... reviving still being hungry

[chrome fog]

Just naturally paranoid when he got rezzed, but he’s been softening up through the years, holding a bit of hope that the Traveler’s got the right idea

More so he’s critical of blind faith, but he also understands the value of trust

The Man with No Name lore book is a good insight into Drifter’s character, really highlights who he is and how his experiences shaped him

This fan animation is a visualizer to one of the radio messages that’d play, gives more perspective into that time
https://youtu.be/cciLt_d3Lo4

[slim elk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICxLnaGHxI
The full logs of it are here as well

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh dam he has that much lore by himself

Ill watch in a bit

[slim elk]

mans a pretty major character

Was first major guy exploring darkness use ingame and in his own words
"going beyond the dogma of the Traveler'

[smoky rose]

He has a lot of lore

[tawdry wigeon]

I mean he is from the dark ages

So understandable

[chrome fog]

Eh, Citan is also from the Dark Ages but he only has his exotic’s lore tab and passing mentions in Iron Lord lore

But Drifter’s special in that he plays a foil to most of the Vanguard’s beliefs, and is a more healthy exploration to alternative justice

[idle raptor]

don't know if this is a dumb question, but why does the curse evolve in the dreaming city?

what's up with that?

[slim elk]

Ahahmkara bullshit

[idle raptor]

ah

[slim elk]

We taken out all other sources {Savathun, Quria]... so.,. yeah

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea thats true i do remember him talking about traveling to a random ass planet filled with darkness I think it was in season of the haunted

[ember storm]

Savathun wanted to use the dreaming city as an infinite generator for worm tribute

so she’d never be reliant on her underlings for survival and effectively have an infinite amount of time to do whatever

unfortunately, however, she apparently didn’t expect her worm’s appetite to grow from all the constant sustenance it got from the curse loop

[chrome fog]

Mara was bargaining with an Ahamkara, Riven of a Thousand Voices, and she had gotten most if not all she wanted from Riven. However, Oryx wrecked the Throneworld Mara carved out his own - creating the Shattered Throne raid. At the same time, Savathun was doing her deception god bullshit and enacted a plan to start the curse. Waltz covered most of that

[ember storm]

so eventually even the loop was unable to satiate the worm and it began starving

which means the worm would eventually eat her

[chrome fog]

Wasn’t it that the worm saw through her deception somehow?

[ember storm]

so she eventually ended up ditching the worm

[ember storm]

I doubt it cared

all it wants is food

the loop gave it food

it’s not like they have standards

[chrome fog]

Her worm grew fat from the events of Splicer, not the loop I believe

[ember storm]

Savathun was already disguised as Osiris and desperately researching ghosts before then

[chrome fog]

Though who’s to say Splicer wasn’t a contingency but the plan after all

[ember storm]

i thought that was just to set up the wellspring

like she needed a fair amount of light so she drained it from the city

[slim elk]

Pretty sure Splicer was used to fuel the Wellspring and keep Rhulk locked up

[ember storm]

the endless night wasn’t just blocking out the sun

[chrome fog]

It’s only until Splicer that we see the progression of her plan to overfeed her worm succeed and then backfire from the worm being too ravenous

[slim elk]

[Also the potential was trying to indirectly hijack control of the city-guardian leadership itself]

Quria dying like that clearly wasnt part of the plan

[ember storm]

I still disagree

she literally directed Lakshmi to her death

[slim elk]

after her plan failed with Quria dying

[chrome fog]

In any case, Savathun wanted the curse to happen and enlisted Rivne’s help, but Riven didn’t have the power to create the Curse; so she baited Uldren - who was driven insane by residual exposure to the Black Heart and also crashing after getting hit by the Dreadnaught’s weapon - by 1) granting his wish to revive a dying Eliksni by the name Fikrul, and 2) posing as his sister Mara to open up the Dreaming City(? Can’t remember Forsaken, it’s been a bit). Anyways, the Young Wolf gets pissed at Uldren killing Cayde, gets pissed at Riven for making all that happen, and then Riven uses the Guardian’s deep desire to kill her to grant Savathun’s wish

And that’s how the Dreaming City got cursed to a 3 week cycle

[ember storm]

I did the math once of how many times we’ve killed Dul Incaru but that was months ago

[slim elk]

The curse is pointless for Savathun now anyway [besides being a constant insult to Mara]

No more worm to feed

[ember storm]

i just love how Savathun specifically mentioned "maybe i can stop the curse, maybe not" to her during Lost and just fucked off

[slim elk]

Maras defintely gonna have words when we revive Savathun

Flip side, maras changed a lot for the better

Might be able to get one on Savathun

[ember storm]

they can both insult each other's lack of brothers

[chrome fog]

Hmmm almost like she and Xivu already did so

[slim elk]

Can totally see Mara just having us in the back while talking with Savathun
"if you recall, this Guardian saw the secret the Witness kept from you and killed you in single combat. Shall I let them do the talking?"

[tawdry wigeon]

man i miss the old farm from like 4 years ago

they could have used the same place for defiance tbh i wouldnt mind at all

[chrome fog]

Yea, some people were hoping for that too

Though Final Shape might bring back old content, not sure how much Bungie can bring back with Activision technically still holding publishing rights over older Destiny content but hopefully they’ll bring back as much as they can considering they’ve brought back King’s Fall and Vault of Glass as well as old D1 exotics

[tawdry wigeon]

I hope so cuz i miss it man

[chrome fog]

I imagine Cayde will be our vendor for the new destination

[tawdry wigeon]

Yoooo he needs to be ngl

We have a titan vendor a warlck now we need a hunter

[chrome fog]

We have three, though one is probably going to go (Zavala)

[worldly river]

Eris was a Hunter if that counts

[tawdry wigeon]

Not a warlock?!!

[worldly river]

Nope

She was a Bladedancer

[tawdry wigeon]

Hhuuuhhhhhh

No idea

[worldly river]

pre-Arcstrider Arc Hunter

[tawdry wigeon]

D1

Arc

[worldly river]

Yeah

[tawdry wigeon]

Danngggg

And then she got involved with hive magic

[worldly river]

Easy to mistake given how much she delves into magicks and shit but she also embodies the survivalist spirit of a Hunter, as well as the tendency towards lone wolf action

[tawdry wigeon]

Fr ikora and zavala have lived for too long ngl and ikora from what i remember correctly she hasnt been in any near death situations right?

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea i never thought of it that way woa

Im mind blown haha

[worldly river]

Not any more than any of the other Vanguard in the Red War
Less so if we count moments of on-screen danger given Cayde's whole adventure with the Vex teleporter and Zavala grappling a Cabal

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea exactly

She'll die imo

Somehow

[chrome fog]

Ikora will probably still be around, Zavala might not even die, just take a break; but she’s definitely gotten herself killed a couple times

[worldly river]

I doubt it, given Lance's death Zavala's more likely to be axed

[chrome fog]

She was much more reckless in her pursuit of knowledge and strength

[worldly river]

By death or retirement

[chrome fog]

The latter is what I mean

[tawdry wigeon]

Either her or osiris but imo osiris needs to be alive for vex content after final shape

[chrome fog]

Asher might, but it’s a veeeeery long stretch if he even survives entering the greater Vex Network

[worldly river]

Frankly my money's on Zavala leaving the picture and either Ikora stepping up as the sole leader of the Vanguard, getting over her self-doubts with the whole Savathun thing, or Ikora stepping up as leader and bringing on Crow and Sloane as the new Hunter and Titan leaders

[tawdry wigeon]

actually

[chrome fog]

I’d like to see a restructuring since the Vanguard is already unconventional in terms of leadership rn

[tawdry wigeon]

I have a feeling cayde will get a very big role after one dies

[chrome fog]

Hell, Ikora and Zavala have been the only proper Vanguard leaders despite being only the second of each

[worldly river]

I don't think Cayde's going to be with us past the end of the campaign, and if he is, it'll be as a destination vendor at best, I think

[tawdry wigeon]

No look cayde will be involved in the end for sure but after this story he will have a major role

Idk

They can't revive such a hype character and use him as a normal vedor

Except if he is like nimbus

A vendor for a completely different planet

Unknown to us rn

[worldly river]

I mean he would be the vendor for whatever destinastion's on the other side of that portal

[tawdry wigeon]

Oh yeyeye

That sure

[worldly river]

But I also think he might simply be a campaign NPC like Rohan

Albeit one that survives longer

[tawdry wigeon]

Hmmmm

[worldly river]

I just don't see Bungie walking back their insistence on not resurrecting Cayde, at least not in a permanent sense

[tawdry wigeon]

Hmm

Wb osiris? I need him for the vex saga but what do yall think?

[nimble surge]

Base flavor text

Each separation in the sentence is trom a diff. Piece

First line to comma is one, comma to period is another, then second sentence is one, and the fourth is the last piece.

[chrome fog]

Yeah, I figured looking in Ishtar

But yeah, just flavor text

Not actually any lore, just to match the theme; those armor pieces were released in Witch Queen

[deep pagoda]

Anybody got a link to a video or website on everything or the full story of the distributary

[chrome fog]

Marasenna lore book or the page on Ishtar, if there is a page specifically for the Distributary

[torpid flint]

Reckon he dies to the witness to protect Ikora and we have a season where she deals with her grief?

afterall, she is seen inside the portal

[worldly river]

That would be kinda redundant

We've already had Ikora grieving over Cayde

That would be cheap

[hollow zealot]

what happened to venus after d1

[trim grotto]

Nothing much.

[smoky rose]

Basically nothing, we've just had zero reason to go there

[dim minnow]

figured that something bad happened in the Veil log this week when Chioma said "incidental"

then she immidiately starts with "Maya's dead"

[slim elk]

She did seem to upload her memories to lakshmi..
Similar fatal effect that happened with creation of Exos perhaps..

[little gorge]

he seems to basically be a memory so yeah

unless you know

we rewrite reality to bring cayde back

[deep pagoda]

I wanna hear everything on the Thanatonauts

Or something with it all

[tawdry wigeon]

Whats the lore behind eva levante? She keeps talking about Carlos and the darkness

[hushed plinth]

Quick Question about Cayde This contains spoiler for this season ||Why did he come back this season?||

[smoky rose]

He didn’t come back this season

That was a teaser for the Final Shape expansion which releases in checks notes approximately 7 months assuming no delays

This season entirely revolved around assisting the proto-worm god Ahsa to communicate with us, which gave us the origin of the Witness as well as our next step to follow the Witness through the wormhole it carved in Lightfall: we need to interrogate savathun

[hushed plinth]

Ah I'll find out all of this during the seasonal quest? I still have to do it

[smoky rose]

Yes

[hushed plinth]

Ah okay well then gotta focus a bit more again then

[smoky rose]

You’ve still got that 7 months to do it

But the season that releases in a month is going to make a lot less sense without doing this season

[hushed plinth]

I can do the seasonal quest even after the season ends?

[umbral lotus]

yes

[little gorge]

seemingly more like cooperate with rather than interrogate

[tawdry wigeon]

I really want osiris to keep one of the fish like the exo from europa has one it'll make it kinda interesting plus he can use strand now right? He aint weak anymore

[chrome fog]

Poukas would be good for him, they’re like therapy dogs but as sentient technology

[fresh zephyr]

Ye but Osiris Still Sadge abt Sagira + he used to be quite literally one of the most powerful warlocks ever, creating multiple (possibly more than 20) projections of himself at a siege of the city (battle of 6 fronts???) and was a deciding factor of the battle because he incinerated so many hundreds of fallen with his Light (he wasn’t even actually there at the time).
Even with Strand, he’s still got a long way to go before he can fully master strand and get over his past trauma.

Sorry for the wall of text

But yeah Poukas could definitely be like space support dogs : D

[tawdry wigeon]

Nw i want these long texts so it's fine! But yea it seems like another chance was given to osiris idk its just my opinion

[fresh zephyr]

He was given a second chance, that’s some of the plot from Lightfall (the little plot it did have lmao) and he’s using it. The one good thing Nimbus ever did was help Osiris look into himself and find a new perspective.

[empty fern]

Oh hey byf made a veil video recently

[tawdry wigeon]

Yea thats true nimbus in general helped with the power

What im noticing rn after finishing the story for the 3rd time is that the witness is using the darkness as a tool to show his anger, darkness isnt really the enemy and ofc thats obvious but im noticing how desperate the race, that created the witness, is to beat the traveler like bro chill

[chrome fog]

They're more explicitly are, which is why you're right that after burning the candle at all ends, exploring the Vex Network, doing all his jimmy jam business that ended with Saint going into the network to find Osiris, Osiris needs emotional support

There's also the Unfinished Business quest, which shows how Osiris gets a look at a reflection of his former self through Nimbus purusing Rohan's research

[analog torrent]

After a guardian is dead, how easy is it to kill their ghost?

[chrome fog]

Ask a Hive Lightbearer

It’s considerably easier when you consider their all-powerful body guard buddy is dead

[worldly river]

That is
Rather hotly contested lol

Or should I say entirely unclear

We can crush Hive Ghosts with our bare hands, but the lore in Forsaken indicates Ghosts can only be killed by Devourer Bullets (basically bullets made in the fashion of Weapons of Sorrow), but Ada also reportedly took out some Ghosts with Izanagi's Burden

[ember storm]

not quite

the reason we (as in guardians) can crush ghosts because we're literally paracausal

like

our body is just paracausal

[worldly river]

That's been the common theory

[ember storm]

the defining factor in Sundance's death was scorn guns are literally made of garbage

[ember storm]

that's literally described in a lore tab

shaw han says it directly

[worldly river]

But it doesn't explain Izanagi or plus I mean, tons of Ghosts have died in the past

[ember storm]

it takes overwhelming force, or paracausal power

izanagi definitely counts as overwhelming force

as does point blank shotgun shells and 10 foot tall aliens

there is zero need to theorize on the subject

it was concisely explained, end of story

Han fixed his gaze on the assembled Guardians and crushed the Ghost in his fist. It burst in a flash of bubbling flame.

"Something like us," Han said. "Like you."```

[chrome fog]

Also the skiff blades able to slice ghosts, which were a common occurrence in the Dark Ages

[ember storm]

9 foot, four armed aliens with electric swords are a pretty powerful force

basically it just means ghosts won't get killed by an ordinary stray round or a rock

[analog torrent]

Have there been any Crucible final death accidents, not counting Red War?

what would the consequences of final-killing a guardian be

[ember storm]

ask shayura

[chrome fog]

Exile or execution

[tawdry mauve]

or death by exile

[analog torrent]

At a later point, she had seemingly caused multiple final deaths, and during a Trials match with her fireteam, she tried to do so again to an opponent who used Stasis.
was this before the shatterdive nerf

How loyal are Ghosts to their Guardians? Not caught up on WQ lore but afaik Fynch is chilling, not rezzing his Guardian, and Immaru ran off somewhere, while Ghosts of humans seem to have absolute loyalty?

The Guardians be committing atrocities and the Ghosts float there like "damn wish you wouldn't do that but ok"?

Mostly thinking about the Thin Line lore

[tawdry mauve]

it depends on the ghost

[smoky rose]

Ghosts of proper guardians do not have absolute loyalty in the slightest

Dredgen Yor

Various warlords in the Dark Ages

Katabasis and Gilgamesh

[tawdry mauve]

well

yeah

gilgamesh is like the ultimate extreme here

[chrome fog]

They’re as much an individual as their guardian, so it is ultimately up to each ghost how loyal they are

[safe galleon]

It's hard to quantify the 'loyalty' of ghosts as a whole, since they're their own people

Although a lot of them do seem to treat having a Guardian as a kind of uniquely fulfilling experience??? And since they can only ever do that once, I assume it's not unheard of that at least some would stay with a less than ideal Guardian partially for that reason

And even just besides that speculation, there are ones who have turbulence with their guardians and stay around despite whatever tension or abuse they weather with them. Drifter's Ghost is an example of that, iirc

If I'm not mistaken, Ikora and her ghost also had a long period of not talking, although I forget what it was over??

[torpid flint]

It’s still ongoing I believe

[tawdry wigeon]

Still ongoing? Damn i see ikora dying ngl

Forget about zavala

She is dying in final shape

She's been too safe in comparison with the other vanguards

[real ingot]

Considering becoming a thanatonaut

[safe galleon]

That's like, the weird warlock suicide club, right

[ember storm]

no

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/universal-wavefunction

[safe galleon]

61 years???

[ember storm]

it be like that sometimes

[torpid flint]

Damn forgot about this lore

[ember storm]

they’ve talked in dawning stuff too

[torpid flint]

causally ignores each other for 61 years

“What do you think?”

[ember storm]

it’s almost like Ikora had a massive amount of self reflection following the red war and also the sudden reappearance of her old mentor which put a lot of things into perspective

[tawdry wigeon]

Old mentor?

[ember storm]

Osiris

[analog torrent]

Any lore pieces that capture the moment a Guardian rises, other than A Guardian Rises, The Liar/Felwinter's lorebook/I believe Winter's Guile?, and A Man with No Name/Drifter's lorebook? I'm talking first words with the Ghost, first steps, stuff like that

tryna write a fresh Risen and I don't have a lot of examples to study 🥶

[ember storm]

I mean what do you need elaboration on

it’s a pretty straightforward process

[analog torrent]

Waking up with no memories ig
Just wanna see the range of experiences

[ember storm]

the person just wakes up with no memories or name, ghost is there and either tells them about the city and traveler or just doesn’t depending on what they’re like

there is zero memory

that’s it

[analog torrent]

Yeah

[ember storm]

it’s just going to change depending on how you write your character

[analog torrent]

I also just wanna read because why not

[ember storm]

well do you wanna hear something funny

a guardian rises isn’t canon

[analog torrent]

man

Was the new light d1 quest (if there was one) canon

[ember storm]

if by that you mean the vanilla campaign (we used to have those), yes

[thorny sequoia]

is there a video with the week 10 veil containment story?

[tawdry wigeon]

What's the archive osiris mentioned in the last mission of the campaign?

[analog torrent]

Arrivals suggested that Guardian has trouble socialising with others. Drifter had to literally grab their hand and raise it to meet his in order to not be left hanging when he raised his hand for a high five. Guardian didn’t know what a high five was.
lol link to where this happened?

[ember storm]

never heard of it

considering emotes are canon I’d believe otherwise

[analog torrent]

it was in a thread about how quiet yw is

[ember storm]

which leads me to believe it’s not true

[rigid flower]

Has it been answered what the ocean on Neptune is made out of?

Doesn't seem like normal water.

[trim grotto]

Oh I remember that

Yes that was from an interaction, not a lore entry

One moment

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/interactions/the-drifter-return-to-the-drifter-3

[trim grotto]

Diamonds!

[rigid flower]

Oh, neat.

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/p_9QzD4cX20
Rather, there are microdiamonds within the mix. But having a diamond sea is more enjoyable to shout out.

[dim minnow]

must be pretty hard having a diamond sea

[analog torrent]

How fast can guardians run? (assuming they can run forever if gameplay is accurate)

Can guardians supercharge their bodies with light for long periods of time to travel faster? If roaming supers increase your speed and lore-accurate guardians are more powerful than we are, it looks feasible

[trim grotto]

Well that's basically what Arc's speed boost is

It's already a gameplay mechanic

[analog torrent]

I forgot about arc speed boost holy moly

is there a mph/kph on that

[trim grotto]

Nope

[analog torrent]

nobody's tried measuring with darci?

[trim grotto]

Not that I'm aware of, but I haven't looked it up.

[fiery copper]

imo gameplay distances are all sorts of messed up

precision slugs can get up to 9 meters MAX

A slug also becomes increasingly inaccurate with distance; out to 100 yards, it drops approximately five inches and has a maximum range of approximately 400 yards.```

100y = 91.44m, 400y = 365.76m

so yeah multiply the range of a d2 shotgun by 10 and then extend the falloff range by another 250m

idk why i googled that, ig just

gameplay distances are weird and should not be taken at face value

[chrome fog]

This is assuming gauges have been preserved from before and are using the same caliber instead of a new standard, which might change in the face of non-human enemies who are more hardy and bigger than the average human

Though there are other methods to determine lengths and whatnot, though yes don’t fully trust readings like from Darci give

[mystic fern]

If you don’t need a ghost to wield darkness

Why don’t former guardians that lost their ghosts like Osiris and Eris just learn to wield it

[jade sapphire]

i think they do.. but also because if you remember the rocky IV training scene wannabe from lightfall how many times we died i think they would be worried to attempt it idk

[ember storm]

eris is literally one of the only lightless guardians who regularly uses darkness

like she literally has an ahamkara bone concealed in soulfire 24/7

[mystic fern]

Yeah but I mean an actual subclass kinda thing

Like what stops her from learning stasis

She’s already attuned to darkness

[slim elk]

She.. does have Stasis..

Whole shadowkeep cutscene with her inside nezarecs old Pyramid is heavily implied to be when she got it

[ember storm]

that's not implied that's literally just when it happened

you can see her using stasis in the BL reveal before elsie even properly introduces it to her and drifter

[trim grotto]

Osiris has Strand and Eris has Stasis
We literally see cutscenes of this

[mystic fern]

Bruh what

Ig I just didn’t register them when I saw them

[ember storm]

it was sorta like

the whole point of beyond light

[mystic fern]

Dang

[slim elk]

Now it's a fair question why Strand isn't more common with Neomuna literally sitting on top of the Veil for centuries

Think one of them may have realized it

[mystic fern]

Hold on

If we’re all canonically the Guardian

How do multiplayer activities exist

[smoky rose]

Us and 2-5 random guardians

[mystic fern]

Because if every guardian experiences the same thing in every campaign then each guardian is the Guardian right

[smoky rose]

Correct

[mystic fern]

Like ghaul didn’t kick a million of us a thousand feet down

So how does that make sense

[slim elk]

Gameplay and Story Segregation lol

[smoky rose]

^

[slim elk]

Otherwise random fallen Captain 357327442 is actually respawning every time you kill it

[smoky rose]

@mystic fern
Let's say you have Guardian 1-6
From guardian 1's pov, he is the young wolf and guardians 2-6 are just extras in the movie
From guardian 6's pov, he is the young wolf and guardians 1-5 are extras

[ember storm]

in terms of story, there is only one guardian

because it's a video game you're in control of that guardian and you choose certain things

[slim elk]

Can't take everything you see in gameplay as scripture for lore

Most common thing is guardian abilities lorewise being a lot more destructive then ingame

Or as in most video games..
High explosives like rocket launchers failing to break a ramshackle rotting wooden fence

[mystic fern]

Ah ok that makes sense

[mystic fern]

Yeah that makes sense

So lord-wise how many guardians could do something like a raid?

[ember storm]

the maximum amount of members in a fireteam is almost always 6

[smoky rose]

6

[ember storm]

raids are also almost always not indicitive of lore at all

it's all just a bunch of coincidences and happenstance how they happen mostly

[smoky rose]

To give some examples

The first fireteam to go into Crota's End was 6

[ember storm]

i'm not sure if the word raid is ever even said in lore

[smoky rose]

Eris is the only survivor

[slim elk]

The most dedicated "story raid" was the whole mess with Riven

[smoky rose]

The first fireteam to enter the vault was between 3 and 6, its implied it might have been as high as 6, but if it was, those people have been erased from the timeline

[slim elk]

Still has effects up to the present

[ember storm]

like a "Raid" isn't a specific type of recognized operation

there's just occassionally very important things that 6 guardians go to deal with

[slim elk]

Logically speaking Player guardians would have enough pull to get named characters on our fireteam a few times

Example:Crow

[limpid flower]

literally anyone

we could get saint and ikora if we wanted to 💀

[fresh zephyr]

Are nightmares stronger or weaker than their original selves?

[real ingot]

probs weaker

depends on the nightmare I'd say

since Crota nightmare wasn't that powerful compared to disaster Crota

[dim minnow]

Nightmares are not true representations of what they portray

[trim grotto]

Pretty relative honestly

[broken zephyr]

idk if it’s been asked, but Cayde is dead, and in the Final Shape teaser he’s alive in the Traveler we’ve seen that anyone who tried to go into the Traveler died, so is Ikora also dead because she’s somehow in there?

[real ingot]

we don't know

[empty fern]

Anyone who entered the traveler died? When did we learn this

[real ingot]

cutscene this season

they sent Joxer in

[broken zephyr]

It was like a cutscene i forgot when but Zavala was like “all efforts to follow the Witness have failed” and then it was like a bunch of dead guardians

[real ingot]

he dead now

[empty fern]

Ah

Oh thought he tried entering the veil part of it

[broken zephyr]

yeah

[trim grotto]

She has her Ghost.

So probably not.

[swift mauve]

Deep starter trailer

[golden wolf]

question, who and what are the praxic order? I've heard of em a dozen times but never actually learnt anything about them

[slim perch]

buncha warlocks

[golden wolf]

they do anything in particular?

[trim grotto]

Praxics?
In many respects this belief parallels the Praxic Creed, which suggests that we should stop worrying about the nature of the Darkness and focus on resisting and defeating it.
They're basically the zealots of the Warlock Orders.

[golden wolf]

so they are basically just people who say "fuck the darkness, I don't care if we get cool and effective powers from it, to the hells with it!"?

[trim grotto]

Something like that, yeah.

[golden wolf]

neat, nice to not have the praxic order bouncing around in my head anymore :)

and do we have a name for the people who were at that furnace place on I think its mercury that you get the titan solar subclass from in d1?

[real ingot]

Sunbreaker something

They got wiped out during Red War

[golden wolf]

ye, was hoping to steal the name and maybe incorporate it into a dnd characters backstory

[slim perch]

sunbreaker is the name of the titan order for solar titans

yes

basically the reason why solar titan is a thing

[golden wolf]

dope, thanks a bunch folks

[hollow oar]

Considering previouslyondestiny hasnt been updated in months

is there an equivalent source for a quick player catchup?

[slim perch]

how in depth of a player catchup

[chrome fog]

Well if you look closely at him you’ll see he’s glowing blue like a Memory - a cleanser Nightmare - instead of yellow like he’s supposed to; paired with the lore tab and name of the exotic ship from the Sonar Station, supposedly this means that the world beyond the portal is some sort of ‘Akashic Record’, which I’m just gonna ask you to google because I’ve done this theory explanation a buncha times

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

Ishtar has a timeline that’s the most thorough we’ve seen thus far and over at the Cryptarchy we’re working on another timeline project with the likes of Dyno - the person who made the Ishtar timeline - Eruke, Lettuce, and a couple other big loreheads

But for quick catch up there’s the New Light video that Bungie released a while back

https://youtu.be/om28A9hTST0

[analog torrent]

Are guardians ok without their suits in the vacuum of space? I assume the armor/suits are hermetically sealed and have all sorts of tech stuff going on which is why they're able to be out in space wearing armor, but without?

• can they breathe underwater, ignoring pressure issues?

[chrome fog]

Probably yes

You might notice that with some pieces of armor there’s an underlying suit which it all goes over, even for exotics, so supposedly there is an air tight skin-suit which all armor is equipped over

There’s also the additional fact that Ghosts use surrounding material to create your armor for the New Light quest and that supposedly this extends to other armor pieces as well; it does fit with both the New Light exotic armor quests and numerous lore tabs of guardians coming upon interesting exotic material to that is then utilized in constructing their exotics

[broken zephyr]

So the theory that the you’re talking about is that the Veil is a sort of physical paracausal Akashic Record and all we’re seeing is a memory of Cayde that we’re able to interact with?

[green cobalt]

well there's very clearly something going on with him in the teaser

[ember storm]

nah he'll definitely just show up for one cutscene

[broken zephyr]

He just turns into a Nightmare two seconds after meeting him and we kill him again

[chrome fog]

Not... exactly. That's a theory for the Veil being a physical back-up of all the conciousnesses in the universe, which could tie into the Akashic Record-esque dimension beyond the portal. Different things

[little gorge]

what kinda seems likely right now is the veil represents consciousness and the traveller represents the physical world

and then you combine them you get everything that did does and will exist

so really that's more like the idea of cayde

[trim grotto]

Without? They would die.

In fact it's a well known issue

Because you can't rez in no atmosphere or you die again

[trim grotto]

"Just remember, post-crash Ghost rez in a vacuum can be, ah… complicated. So try not to die." —Shun Endo

In fact it's exactly how Crow became indebted to Spider

The Lightbearer slouched, and his gold eyes averted to the floor at the memory. "Long enough to know what eternity feels like. Long enough to know I'd never escape without…" he looked up to Spider, to the glow of those Ether-infused eyes. "Without help."```

[broken zephyr]

So Guardians can effectively Softlock themselves if they die in space?

[ember storm]

it's basically like when you die from starvation

your ghost can bring you back, but you'll still be hungry, and just drop dead a short bit after

[trim grotto]

In a similar tangent, don't die in the radioactive remnants of a nuclear bomb.

Same reason.

They reach the settlement. It is smoldering cinder and ruin. Gol frets about "fission products" and "acute radiation," so Orin lingers at a distance and studies what remains. A cat moves among the most distant rubble, hunting for mice. A tattered banner stirs in the breeze. She sees nothing more, so she ignores Gol's warning and goes in for a closer look.

He runs the computations. "Not precisely. Less than thirty-six hours ago, I suppose."

"I should have walked faster," she mutters, and then bends over to be sick.

"You can't do that here," Gol interrupts anxiously. "Stop, Orin. Stop. You have radiation poisoning. If you're sick here, you'll die here, and then I'll have to resurrect you here, and you'll be sick and die again and again. You have to move. Come. I told you not to walk around here."```

[broken zephyr]

based on this does a Ghost revive work? Are Guardian’s physical body dead but their conscience is still alive (i’m not too deep into the lore of this game), would they be stuck in a sort of eternal limbo?

[trim grotto]

That honestly depends on the Guardian

Some are aware through their Ghost
Most are not and are just dead

[ember storm]

i mean, due to the nature of radiance self rez, there's some level of awareness for some

you think it'll ever be referenced again?

like bladedancers are occasionally mentioned

[trim grotto]

It was in Haunted

[ember storm]

neat

fun coincidence that's also when ghaul was referenced

[ocean oriole]

Can someone please tell me what shriekers are

[ember storm]

hive constructs

made out of dead material and magic, iirc

basically just a magic security camera

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/shrieker

[ocean oriole]

Thx

[thorny sequoia]

is there lore in the wicked implement mission?

[trim grotto]

Nothing world shattering. We tithed our violence to Xivu Arath, and in return, she gave us the weapon.
However, the temple is technically a Pyramid, which may explain where the Pyramid that Took Titan went to.

[thorny sequoia]

I mean lore stuff that you activate or something?

[green cobalt]

there are those darkness shards or whatever that you can shoot after you've killed the boss

they give dialogue

[trim grotto]

Yes, that's true. The Destiny Lore Vault has all of those recordings.

[shadow warren]

We don’t know what species nezerac is do we?

He and rhulk look pretty similar

I was wondering if that’s a coincidence or it has something to do with them being disciples or what

[chrome fog]

Mostly coincidence, as Rhulk and Nezarec’s enlistment are two different instances

I think

[green cobalt]

a theory i've heard of is some psionic thing guy

[smoky rose]

That's Witness drip

You can see how Tormentors, Nezarec, and Rhulk all have the same red sinous look, that's all witness-related

[green cobalt]

tbf nezarec's body was entirely reconstructed

[analog torrent]

I heard nezerac was a weird version of a psion

[smoky rose]

He had a relationship with the psions

But there is no indication he was a psion himself

[green cobalt]

whoa 😳

destiny dating real

[smoky rose]

Not any more than he was originally an Eliksni (because there's some indication he was influencing them at one point too)

[analog torrent]

huh okay I'm looking at the psion wiki page and in d1 they didn't have horns

did they get horns to honor nezerac?

[shadow warren]

Oh actually now that you mention it

I think I saw a byf video talking about nezerac’s connection with psions

Iirc he was some sort of deity to them? Can’t remember

[smoky rose]

Yes

[shadow warren]

But it’s unknown if he was actually part of the psions species himself?

[smoky rose]

Yes

[shadow warren]

That’s what I thought at first but the witness had other disciples who didn’t look like that

Ie calus

[analog torrent]

calus was bait

[shadow warren]

I forget if oryx was a disciple? Pretty sure savathun was too?

Or is

[analog torrent]

p sure oryx wasn't a disciple

wasn't he made before bungie was sure what disciples were

[shadow warren]

Yeah I was very unsure abt that I just remember it being mentioned somewhere

[smoky rose]

Oryx wasn't

Savathun was in training

But decided that this was bullshit and betrayed the witness

[smoky rose]

The Witness was using Calus' narcissism

[shadow warren]

I see

[green cobalt]

speaking of psions and all, their void grenade (and damage from all enemies actually) isn't actually that element right? like it's only a gameplay thing?

[smoky rose]

Void energy =/= void light

Void arc and solar are physical elements

[green cobalt]

what

[smoky rose]

Light alters the physical

Why do you think Minotaurs have void shields

[green cobalt]

gameplay reason?

[smoky rose]

Or all the stuff in Warmind bunkers are arc conduits

Light alters the physical

Void arc and solar are real things

Its just the way the light uses it that makes it powerful

[smoky rose]

Guns can shoot them

[green cobalt]

also liquids apparently since omolon weapons store them as liquids

makes it sound less cool than them just being the light idk

[ember storm]

are you just now finding this out?

[fiery copper]

Idk it's pretty Borderlands and I like that a lot

[green cobalt]

Well I just now questioned it since I always thought it was a gameplay reason (cooler)

[fiery copper]

In my fanon instead of the actual magazines we reload ingame, the circular things on the sides of omolon guns are borderlands spinny mags that spin as you fire, and we unscrew and slap another one in to reload

[ember storm]

when did you start playing

[green cobalt]

Playing at all or playing often

[ember storm]

what's the difference

[fiery copper]

Also based pfp nexius

I have a joke for you

Why does scara have wind powers?

Because he's An Emo

Anyway destiny needs more borderlands

[green cobalt]

I wouldn't say I cared much doing red war + warmind + CoO and then dipping for the next expansion

[fiery copper]

Fair lol

[green cobalt]

And then doing forsaken and dipping and then shadowkeep and dipping

[fiery copper]

Forsaken was good but simply not caring because of how god awful y1 was is absolutely valid

Ahh

[green cobalt]

Came back to the game during season of the Lost and I've stuck to it since

That's why I'm differentiating

[ember storm]

i keep forgetting server activity isn't a good representation of game time

anyway

yeah it was established since the beginning that the 3 elements just exist

[green cobalt]

[ember storm]

guardians just can't use the purest form of light so we instead form it into things we're already familiar with

solar, arc, void

[fiery copper]

Elements aren't exclusive to guardians. Which is why hobgoblins are absolutely bullshit, they have Lorelei

[green cobalt]

Also if this is written anywhere and not explicitly stated in like a campaign or something I probably never cared enough to look for it

[fiery copper]

Enemies using elements is good enough for me

[ember storm]

it is stated basically anywhere it's relevant

because it's mean to be a basic concept

[fiery copper]

I doubt that random wretch with a taser on a stick who deals arc damage has a ghost, it's probably just a taser on a stick that deals arc damage

[ember storm]

like during curse of osiris ghost marvels at the amount of arc energy the vex use to power just one simulation

[green cobalt]

Yeah but during curse of Osiris I didn't care enough so I forgot everything about it

[ember storm]

that was just one example

[green cobalt]

Yes

[ember storm]

the elements are referenced basically everywhere

basically i'm making fun of you for not picking up on a very niche thing

[green cobalt]

There are surely some more recent examples of elements being mentioned but ig I never really questioned it until now

[fiery copper]

Based

[ember storm]

osiris explaining the elements in the neptune hub

[green cobalt]

Actually I'm stupid, there are those damn containers on neomuna next to Osiris place on neptune

Yeah

[fiery copper]

The lasers we use in Terminal Overload are called Arc Craniums, and do indeed deal arc damage.

[green cobalt]

MAN
🐴

Yeah so I'm just stupid that's cool

[fiery copper]

We are all stupid on this blessed day

Rise, knight of Dumbassia, and spread the good word of Basic Lore Concepts

[green cobalt]

how about I keep ignoring them and make up reasons for things in my mind instead

[fiery copper]

Honestly it CANNOT be worse than lightfall, feel free to DM me stuff you come up with because I LOVE THAT KIND OF STUFF

[green cobalt]

mmmno

[fiery copper]

[fiery copper]

You just reminded me I need to make this an emoji on my server ty

[wind belfry]

I prefer

[worldly river]

Byf's recent video on the Veil just connected things for me that I think might be a viable explanation for what we've seen of Final Shape
So piggybacking off both his idea that the Veil being able to transfer memory, whilst it is as we understand it now, as Byf describes it, a "locus point" for the web of consciousness throughout the universe, if we then assume that those memories are stored- then what the Witness may have done, in linking the Veil and the Traveler, was tapping into the memory of the universe (as that one concept artist described it) and forcibly using the Traveler's power to creation to manifest something (or things) in that memory
Which would explain why we see Cayde- he was essentially pulled from the memory of the universe and manifested using the power of the Traveler, hence all the glowy cracks

And perhaps the reason he has no memory is the same reason we have no memory when resurrected by Ghosts, because the Traveler can physically create bodies for us using the Light but lacks access to memory, which is the domain of the Veil

[ember storm]

who says he has no memory?

the trailer implies he remembers everything he experienced, ikora was recapping things he wasn't there for

[worldly river]

I suppose that's true, though I keep fixating on him calling Ikora "kiddo," something I don't believe he ever called her when we knew him, which makes it seem like he isn't the same as we knew him, idk, but that is a good point

Regardless the rest may still be true

A place and time, pulled from the memory of the universe, made manifest through the power of the Light

And then the bit I literally just sorta stumbled into writing this, about the lack of memory in Guardians being the result of that info being stored in the Veil and the Traveler not having access to it, may also be true, and that especially would make a lot of sense

[ember storm]

i really think the no memory upon resurrection isn't because of limitation

for all intents and purposes being a blank slate is the point of risen

[worldly river]

Yeah there is all that talk about it being willful, to allow them to start from scratch

yeah that

Yeah that's probably just me making thematic links sort of in reverse, getting the causation backwards

That whole line of thinking also makes me think on whether perhaps the Cayde we see is a construct created by the Traveler to communicate with us, or as an agent to help us, since it seems unable to really do much of anything right now

Not much use speculating too hard on that for the next few weeks, though

[chrome fog]

I did a big spinfoil about it being a Memory of Cayde given his body’s total experiences - before and during his time as a guardian - and a physical form

[fiery copper]

When ikora says "you've missed so much" that strongly implies he remembers SOMETHING at least, or else he wouldn't have missed it, she would be starting from scratch instead of what I assume is picking up after he died.

Idk if that makes any sense at all, it makes sense in my head

[worldly river]

No that makes sense

[violet plume]

cayde

[dim minnow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/15b1e85/the_veil_isnt_neutral_it_is_actively_malign/

thoughts?

[ember storm]

i mean, did this need to be theorized?

i thought this was the general consensus

the witness got its ideals and beliefs after interacting with the veil

[analog torrent]

Anyone got lorebook recs? Already read The Man They Call Cayde, The Liar, A Man with No Name, Shattered Suns, and I've got the Books of Sorrow lined up to read

[smoky rose]

But it didn't at all, that's the problem. Or at least it already had notions about the idea of the Winnower and shaping the garden

That was not a veil thing

That was the Witness' people on their own

[smoky rose]

Marasenna is a good one

You know, the reason the awoken exist is because of a rabbit embryo coming out of deep space at 40 km/s and headshotting a dude, killing him instantly

Achilles Weaves a Cocoon is also a good read

[ember storm]

ah yes

origin of the cow thing

[pearl basin]

can anyone tell me everything about reflections of osiris , and how can osiris create them

[chrome fog]

It's 50/50 imo, depending on the how and why the things in the Veil Containment Logs happen

[chrome fog]

Unveiling, unironically. Very eccentric but it's a good read considering its like a Bible for Destiny's story, albiet and biased one

[exotic cloak]

The crypt is where a pyramid was, was the statue removed from a pyramid or is it just a replica

[little gorge]

i really doubt it

the fact that the witness can directly communicate doesn't mean it will do so

just as it did with us multiple times in the past

maya had her own voice whisper to her

[smoky rose]

No and none of the above

There was not a pyramid there

The statue is real

Clovis was led to it by the K1 anomaly on the moon

That statue is Clarity Control, it allowed Clovis to use darkness to reduce vex radiolaria into a simpler pattern, which allowed it to be used as Exo Mind Fluid

[exotic cloak]

Thanks

[dim minnow]

the thing to note is that the Witness being the one who spoke to Maya and influenced her isn't likely

since the Witness had no idea where the Veil even was at that point

[smoky rose]

I'd argue that its more likely than not actually

Allow me to elaborate

• The darkness is not the realm of the physical, in fact it is the opposite. There is no reason for a purely psychological link to give the Witness a definitive location of the Veil.
• Who/What spoke to Maya acted in the EXACT same way that the Witness is established to act, with both the Kentarch 3 and our guardian themselves.
• this type of communion is common in communications with the Witness, specifically Calus

[little gorge]

also she could just be seeing memories

[smoky rose]

Its sorta like Unveiling, where everything lines up with the Witness except for one very minor thing, and everyone jumps on it like omg there's something else

It looks like a dog, it acts like a dog, but its in a cat shelter therefore it must be a cat

[trim grotto]

There are two versions. One of Vex tech, one of Light. They're brittle but powerful copies of his will.

As for how he summons them?
He's Osiris. One of the greatest Warlocks to ever exist.

[jolly vector]

wait did some really thought oryx was stronger than rhulk?