📚lore-discussion

[dim minnow]

it's just the Colony Ships coming from the Cosmodrome that were leaving suddenly

[slim elk]

Point making here is.. per the logs we know at least mutiple weeks passed after the Collapse occured mimimum before Lakshmi was created

[dim minnow]

the Collapse did happen over several weeks (or months)

so maybe Lakshmi ended up on Earth when the Collapse was wrapping up

[chrome fog]

They still would’ve been able to see what happened in the months that the Collapse took place over, not to mention any remnant memory in the dead Exos could’ve provided a constructed view on what happened to London

[slim elk]

Yep, I ask the question to what end were such means utilized

[dim minnow]

London was when the Fallen first arrived, so not long after Collapse

[chrome fog]

But the original message in question is in relation to the reliability to which certain records can be held accountable, which itself is in service to carving out a timeframe for which the Destiny Timeline takes place. To which Neomuna’s records are about as reliable as anyone else’s

[chrome fog]

Then she would’ve definitely had time to be sent to Earth and witness the burning of Old London

[dim minnow]

my thoughts exactly

[chrome fog]

I also saw mention in the Cryptarchy that Lakshmi sorta came out of nowhere and just had access to the FWC machine, so further evidence to her timeline still holding true

[slim elk]

The interesting bit is per Exo naming conventions.. she never was rebooted and would never have lost memories

Thus she would know of Neomunas existence

[chrome fog]

So this revelation doesn’t really retcon or rewrite anything we’ve known about her; in any case it gives more support to certain actions, such as Savathun pushing for Lakshmi to open the Vex portal, which would kill one of the few people who’d know of the Veil’s location outside of Neomuna

[chrome fog]

It could’ve been withheld from her former self

Nothing suggests that she was Lakshmi-1 prior to what Maya did

[dim minnow]

Lakshmi could have been an agent of the Witness

Chioma did mention that something was off about her

[chrome fog]

There’s nothing against it either but Chioma refers to her as Lakshmi-2 in past tense

[slim elk]

Discredited by the very log that reveals it. Esi said Lakshmi had some of Mayas memories

[dim minnow]

as if she knew something

[chrome fog]

And? Does it say how that affects the naming convention for Lakshmi?

In any case it would run counter to your sleeper agent theory since having her call herself by a different designation would draw suspicion

[slim elk]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/legacys-oath-grips

[dim minnow]

OH DAMN

[slim elk]

Ask yourself why would she be sent to Earth then.. and potentially break Neomuna's self imposed isolation

[dim minnow]

Lakshmi was searching for incidents of Exos undergoing spontaneous reboots

[slim elk]

Yep, and check the names.. specifcally the numbers

They each changed after the reboot..

Yet Esi has Lakshmi-2 directed stated.. .Lakshmi never was rebooted

[chrome fog]

Aside from my misgivings with the Neomuna Consiprady theory, I’m not questioning g your theory of her being a sleeper agent, I’m questioning that if she is at all a sleeper agent why would she have her number changed if that meant putting her on the list of resets that occurred outside of Braytech facilities? Would that not attract more attention?

[chrome fog]

I just. I said this.

[slim elk]

I think you misread my arguement

[dim minnow]

more like body hijacked

[slim elk]

My main point was the naming convention revealed that Lakshmi never was rebooted... and thus would likely retain memory of Neomuna

Thus she presents a significant break in Neomunas self imposed isolation policies

[limpid flower]

yea but we;re also talking about maya

a psycho scientist who used dead bodies to perform experiments

she doesnt have the highest of idk the word

[slim elk]

Which is why I think Maya is behind the extensive record alteration and purges in Neomuna's records
Similar to Clovis in the Golden Age hiding evidence of his misdeeds from the public

[dim minnow]

who would of thought that Maya, the one who canonically told Clovis to go fuck himself, would turn out that bad

kind of ironic

Clovis started bad, but turned good (I am referring to his exo form) while Maya started out good but turned bad

[limpid flower]

i wouldnt say that he turned good lol

[slim elk]

Indeed, Maya has the motives and will to create a conspiracy to cover her tracks

And potentially her ultimate goal

[chrome fog]

[dim minnow]

read Legacy's Lament

[limpid flower]

ok!

[dim minnow]

and to specifcy, I am not referring to Clovis AI

[slim elk]

Banshee=Clovis

[chrome fog]

This is only a recent development in the timeline, she was not always like this; in fact she’d criticize the same behavior from Clovis

[dim minnow]

I am referring to Clovis-1 to 43 and Banshee

[limpid flower]

the change occured rather quickly tho, based on what we've heard from the logs

[chrome fog]

There’s also that; Cryptarchy picked up on how the Darkness changed both Maya and Clovis to do dark things, it’s just that we knew more of Maya prior to being in connection with the Darkness than Clovis

[dim minnow]

according to specifics, Clovis AI is technically a mere copy while Clovis-1 was Clovis transferred to another body

[slim elk]

The key event being exposure to the Veil

[chrome fog]

Exactly, compared to her many years - centuries even - of not being this way

Ishtar became a prominent pioneer of the Golden Age, of which Maya founded the company/Collective

[limpid flower]

still a psycho lol

[dim minnow]

I don't recall it being stated that Maya founded Ishtar

she was the founder of FWC though

[slim elk]

And this is why I believe theres a malevolent conspiracy behind Neomuna
The basis of the Cloudark.. was created by this same psycho mad scientist.. and everything in Neomuna is hardwired into it

[dim minnow]

hmmm

[chrome fog]

Maya

Not Lakshmi

[dim minnow]

yeah I know

[chrome fog]

Dova please I’m about to lose my mind

[limpid flower]

basically he same perosn

[chrome fog]

I

[dim minnow]

Maya was the FWC founder

[limpid flower]

same person different bodies

[dim minnow]

the main one at least

[chrome fog]

Ok didn’t found but was a part of Ishtar

[limpid flower]

yee

[chrome fog]

We know she was in that group of researchers that found simulated copies of themselves in a hobgoblin

Or whatever

Which is why it’s Msund12 because it’s one of the copies

[chrome fog]

Point we’re trying to make is she was a psycho for a relatively short period of her life after an event similar to what happened to Clovis

[slim elk]

Believe technically over 200 copies of Maya existed because of that hobgoblin

[limpid flower]

we aren't psychos

[chrome fog]

[slim elk]

Will definitely be interesting to hear the reason Lakshmis existence was purged from Neomunas records and she was sent to earth though.

[limpid flower]

prob just to get a maya on earth to do some stupid shit

[dim minnow]

not related, but Chioma is canonically a gymbro

she practiced deadlifts and Maya even spotted her

and because of this, Chioma is strong enough to lift the Tractor Cannon

[limpid flower]

lol

[dim minnow]

Decades later they joined the Ishtar Collective on Venus to study the enigmatic ruins unearthed by the Traveler's terraforming. The first time it happened—Vex code leaping across an airgap, surfing the quantum vacuum from simulation to reality, infecting a utility frame—Chioma pulled an alarm while Maya tried to grab the precious frame with a cargo-grade gravity grapple. She couldn't lift the grapple. Chioma grabbed it, pinned the frame to the wall, and won the argument.```
```Maya didn't like bracelets, said they always fouled her work. Her hair had been getting shaggy again and was due for a trim. She could never decide whether or not to grow it out. She laughed at you lifting weights to maintain simulated muscle, but she spotted for you all the same.```

just something funny I recalled

[limpid flower]

lol

[chrome fog]

Seeing how Maya was not entirely a jerk and was critical of Clovis’ obsession with Clarity being the key to his Exo immortality project, then does a 180 and adopts the same mindset as Clovis with Salvation, there’s something in the mix

[slim elk]

Already said the key event that seemed to cause that change.. exposure to the Veil

[dim minnow]

I think her FWC thing was in the mix

[limpid flower]

sometimes people act good to get to high places and once theyre there, they go down the path of destructioin 🥀

[dim minnow]

it is well known that the device FWC use has adverse effects on one's mind

[limpid flower]

side note

why dont u like petra

[chrome fog]

But then why not prior to this, why hadn’t she worship the FWC machine in such a way as the Veil

[slim elk]

Also of note: Clovis was receiving a lot of "dreams" from the Traveler that inspired that mess of his

[chrome fog]

He received dreams Not To Do What He Was About To Do, or at least Not To Fuck Up

[dim minnow]

🙂

[slim elk]

Yep. Seems like Clovis was always an asshole even before Clarity was found.

[limpid flower]

sounds about right

[chrome fog]

I’ve waxed on and on about the Veil possibly being infected by the Witness species’ need for a Winnower, but there’s also a possibility that just by connecting to the Darkness, Maya was enthralled to the Witness as well and it’s behind the strings of what the logs record. It would fit with the Veil not stopping such things from happening

[slim elk]

Meanwhile with Maya.. decent person.. went complete psycho after Veil exposure

[dim minnow]

1. She was forced to work in the Last City as an Emissary as punishment for calling an airstrike that killed 3 fireteams of Guardians and their Ghosts who were fighting deeply entrenched Fallen Wolves.
2. While in exile, she showed great disdain towards the people of the city thinking that the "don't know their place".
3. Between Red War and Forsaken, when Cayde apprehended Fikrul and Uldren, she decided to lock Uldren up in the Prison of Elders alongside Fikrul and the other Scorn Barons and made sure only her, Cayde, and Variks were the only ones to know that the Prince was still alive.
4. After this, she left the task of curing Uldren and Fikrul's respective conditions solely on Variks' shoulders which could be seen as one of the leading factors behind his decision to abandon the Prison starting the vents of Forsaken. Could of asked techeuns or even the Last City to help, but no, must not make her people any less happy I guess.
5. She heavily despises Zavala even going to the point to where she fantasizes about being superior to him and mopping up his dissolved remains off of the floor. Not even joking here.
6. I really doubt she had no idea what Uldren was planning until she failed to stop him at the EDZ. She may not have known about Riven being behind it, but she had to know that Uldren took over the Tangled Shore so he could get to the Dreaming City. Maybe the Vanguard would have gotten involved if they knew Uldren could unleash a Taken Ahamkara, and maybe the Dreaming City fisaco wouldn't have been so bad. Instead Petra kept it a secret until after Uldren was able to reach his goal.
7. She wasn't even the one who summoned Guardians to aid the Awoken in the Dreaming City, that would be Paladin Kamala Rior.
8. Variks questioned quite a few of Petra's decisions as acting regent, including her lack of action towards preventing the Scorned Barons from growing in power.
9. Despite everything that has happened thus far, she has refused to change unlike Mara.

[slim elk]

The only issue I find there is if the Witness had a hand behind Maya.. why could it never find the Veil after all this time?

[chrome fog]

I just stated earlier that Clovis possibly had some good prior to learning about Clarity, but we don’t get much of this side of Clovis until his mindscan into his Exo body

[limpid flower]

me neither tbh

hate her

[chrome fog]

This is also a system where dust from each planet holds a consciousness and just a shit load of species entered at around the time of Neomuna’s founding. The Witness was also able to give the Vex the Black Heart - a noted failed copy of the Veil (though that could be from prior research before chasing the Traveler or Savathun hiding the Veil away, to which the latter gives more argument to why it didn’t find the Veil)

[slim elk]

Hoping we get the chance to interrogate Savathun for info about the whole deal heh

Killing Nezarec and spiriting away the Veil right under the Witness nose is one hell of a trick

[limpid flower]

im sure step 1 is finding imaru, 2 is rez, 3 is her saying "i told u so" 4 is making sure she cant do shit, and 5 is figuring what the fuck we do with the veil 💀

[chrome fog]

Those Exos that died would also have its specific brand of Darkness so it could’ve just killed every Exo on the same planetoid as her

[chrome fog]

Step 3.5 is Immaru doing some dumb shit that leads to the seasonal activity, because Savathun wouldn’t be stupid enough to not stop the universe from getting royally fucked as the Witness intends

[slim elk]

Lakshmis creation also has an interesting question
If she was created from the "gestalt" of all the dead Exos.. she still retained the singular dominant personality of Maya.. and Osiris had the basis for it compared to the Witness origins
Does the Witness also have a "primary" personality within it?

[chrome fog]

Since, y’know, she literally fucked up the Witness’ plans?

[limpid flower]

szn activitiy is "draw out immaru by killing high ranking lucnet hive"

cant wait for it to be very boring!!

[chrome fog]

If you’re pessimistic enough that’s all activities

[limpid flower]

xD

[chrome fog]

But if you’re normal you still stay excited because that’s just a sad way to live

[limpid flower]

fax

[slim elk]

I ponder just how sarcastic Savathun will be when she gets revived

"You could have two Hive Gods on your side right now.. instead you killed my efforts to revive my brother"

[dim minnow]

you say that as if we weren't totally justfified in stopping her

[slim elk]

Heh. We were.. won't stop her though

She literally tried the "I am your friend!" crap back in Lost.. after what she pulled in Splicer

[dim minnow]

and what she pulled everywhere else before then

she was the reason Forsaken and Shadowkeep happened

[chrome fog]

That would be prior to her revival as a Lightbearer however, so maybe Risen Savathun might be more inclined to chase this feeling she and her siblings have been forcefully rejecting in lieu of the Sword Logic

We forget that while she knows the memories of her past self, she's also unrestricted by what held her down previously, namely the Sword Logic and Tithe and feeding her worm

She does still have the same inclinations as her past life, but this is also in a setting where Immaru and her Right Hand have been instructed to force her towards her past life's goals

[slim elk]

Kinda important Savathun herself set up events so she would be picked up and educated by those two...

And attacked us first with the draining of Guardians Light

[chrome fog]

She still has time to be further convinced to side with us and even has a better chance now that she's not as jaded as her former life - though seeing her own self's efforts through the millennia could just convince her of the same

It's mostly Immaru who presents a current issue, in that he has joint command over the Lucent Hive and is also a batshit insane traitor

[slim elk]

Likewise.. seems Ahsa.. may have been in on the plans if shes pointing us towards Savathun?

[chrome fog]

A back-up for a back-up, of which Neomuna was a back-up of that

If Savathun's plan to abscond with the Traveler failed, she could try and convince the Young Wolf to help her stop the Witness; if she died and wasn't able to convince them of such, she could set steps for us to see the Veil and get pointed to Titan by the Occlusion, which would then lead to Ahsa who can convince us through the revelation of the Witness' origins and get us to revive Savathun

[slim elk]

The indicator there is that Savathun appears to not have us remained independent of her rule in said plans... given the hostility portrayed. We did wreck her plan with Lakshmi back in Splicer given she didnt plan on Quria getting killed the way it did

Explictly tried to have Quria captured and was fuming a bit at its destruction

[chrome fog]

Could've been her tying a lose end, as Lakshmi would be the only one to know of Neomuna's existence

[slim elk]

Nah, listen to "osrisis" after Quria gets killed. Savathun was pissed

[chrome fog]

Only individual in the system istelf to know about Neomuna save for Rasputin maybe(?) and Savathun herself

[chrome fog]

That would be for Quria's demise, but not necessarily for Lakshmi

[slim elk]

other words
I think her "Plan A" went up in smoke and she had to resort to "Plan B"

I figure it was installing Lakshmi as a puppet ruler of the City.. thus Savathun would have indirect control over the guardians

[ember storm]

no, she just needed a reason to gtfo

[blazing wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/gtfo-hop-on-gaming-bug-glitch-gif-26288681

[ember storm]

also Savathun is literally the reason Lakshmi died

all she wanted was to stir up trouble long enough as a distraction

she was just surprised we killed Quria as soon as we did

[little gorge]

was it her efforts

i thought it was more like an act of desperation from the lucent brood

not something savathun had planned in advance

[slim elk]

It's implied it is. Dialogues saying the Lucent Brood isn't fracturing like the Vanguard has seen before after we killed Crota and Oryx

Still have solid leadership structure even after taking Savathun out

[little gorge]

does saint even know about what happened with oryx

[slim elk]

Saint literally predicted we would kill Crota lol

Quick history lesson is nothing

[little gorge]

yes but does he know about the resurrection attempt

[ember storm]

I mean we literally know why this is

Immaru is still alive

[ember storm]

he calls us Hivebane and Kingslayer

[blazing wasp]

_ _

[trim grotto]

Probably not. It's a secret Hidden operation. But, he is Saint. He was Vanguard Commander once, he's got ins.

[ember storm]

I mean, if he were for whatever reason allowed in for the big WQ “the traveler might be cringe” meeting then I assume he’s given special access

[blazing wasp]

He also has access to the hidden's library

Ikora doesn't even know how apparently

[ember storm]

plus it’s a hidden operation, it’s not like Ikora is going to keep everything important to herself

again

[trim grotto]

So to answer your question
Maybe

[ember storm]

so season finale happened right?

what was that

[dim minnow]

wasn't Saint present in that one cutscene where Zavala found out about Savathun's death and revival?

[ember storm]

I have seen literally nothing since week 2

[dim minnow]

not quite the seasonal finale

[ember storm]

aforementioned “traveler might be cringe meeting”, yes

Shaxx and Ana were there too

[dim minnow]

just the end of the seasonal story

[ember storm]

I think Saladin also?

I can’t remember

[dim minnow]

basically, Xivu Arath attempted to use a ritual to Take Ahsa, but we stop it

[trim grotto]

Freeing Ahsa from the ritual that tried to Take her

[ember storm]

a taken worm-like thing

sounds fun

[dim minnow]

then we learn from Ahsa that we need to bring back Savathun to learn how to follow the Witness

[ember storm]

should’ve let it happen

[trim grotto]

And also Sloane nearly chopped Zavala's head off

[ember storm]

did his bald head deflect it

[dim minnow]

Sloane seemed to get over her PTSD stuff

[ember storm]

also how many times is Zavala going to be almost killed

it’s happened like

7 times now

[trim grotto]

Par for the course for a Guardian

Besides, Targe could just
Leave

[ember storm]

I think he just has bad spatial awareness

[trim grotto]

Well no, Xivu controlled her body for a bit there

[ember storm]

how does a fucking cabal legionary sneak up on you, man

[dim minnow]

this is Red War right?

[trim grotto]

Zavala was like "ayy deputy stop it ya hobgoblin"
And she was like "lol soz"

Word for word trust me

[ember storm]

yes

there was also the one time where he assumed there’d only be one psion in the control room of a massive warship

and to be fair he was right

but it was a horrible idea

[dim minnow]

well it was in the middle of a battle

[ember storm]

I’m just saying he obviously has amazing ninja skills like how he showed in Warmind

[dim minnow]

the psion who was sending the Almighty on the collison course was acting alone I believe

at the very least,her reasons were very personal

[ember storm]

Did Zavala even tell Caiatl about the initial assassination attempt in the city?

[dim minnow]

Zavala didn't really know she had nothing to do with it until the second attempt

so he could of told her

[ember storm]

I mean, at that point, wouldn’t he at least question it?

Caiatl is all about honor

she even said “I’ll meet you on the battlefield” and let Zavala and Osiris leave with zero harm after initial negotiations fell out

if I were him I’d be confused if she just sent a lone assassin

[dim minnow]

I think him hearing Uldren's voice and seeing his face was taking up much more space in his mind at the time

since this was before he knew Crow was Uldren

[limpid flower]

this tree looks so pretty

also

this is bc of the travlers beamy shooty right

[sick yew]

Yes

A tree of silver wings often appears right where the traveler did its magic

[limpid flower]

crazhy

[sick yew]

Io was another example

Theres a possibility that Mercury once had one but it got destroyed during the Vex conversion

[blazing wasp]

The vex are joining the war on global warming on the side of global warming

They hate trees

[limpid flower]

lol

[trim grotto]

Yes and no
Osiris planted that seed there shortly before Arrivals

[limpid flower]

does the tree contain light in itself?

or is it just a bright white tree

[trim grotto]

It is neither Light nor Dark but can absorb either

[limpid flower]

i see

[sick yew]

He what

[trim grotto]

It likely had a Cradle but not a Tree

[limpid flower]

if we see io coming back, does that mean that the tree would have absorbed the darkness? bc of the whole stealing fiasco

[trim grotto]

Perhaps, yes

[sick yew]

How the fuck can you plant Trees of Silver wings? I thought they only occur as a byproduct of the Travelers terraform

[trim grotto]

With a Seed
We even held one in Lightfall and Arrivals both

[sick yew]

Where do you get one

How does it work

[limpid flower]

we held one in lightfall?

[trim grotto]

Post campaign

For Deterministic Chaos

[limpid flower]

ohh

[trim grotto]

From the Typhon

[limpid flower]

right

[trim grotto]

Osiris got his from the Darkness in a deep space anomaly
Maybe a Pyramid
Hard to tell

Mara told him to plant it

[sick yew]

huh

[limpid flower]

ofc mara did lol

[obtuse knoll]

hello everyone, i just finished downloading d2, i played a bit but i did not understand the lore, please help me i really wanna get into this.

[devout nimbus]

;lore

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[trim grotto]

Other than the resources linked, I suppose it depends on what, exactly, you wish to know?

I do recommend PreviouslyOnDestiny, though it's a year out of date. Also...

[trim grotto]

https://youtu.be/om28A9hTST0
Watch this, first.

[hollow oar]

I remember Ghost talking about some of the consequences that the portal opening had on the traveller - what had happened again?

[sour galleon]

Is the veil sentient

[little gorge]

consequences for us?

i think it was harder for him to draw light

[final geyser]

i'm still just imagining how shitty of a day the Scourge of Earth had back in Seraph

imagine you just got promoted to Scourge of Earth, first day on the job, everything's going great, your boss is boutta annihilate the traveler and then

THE

guardian walks in

like that's gotta be one of the worst days in the history of the hive

[smoky rose]

The traveler appears to be in a state of incapacitation

No one can feel its presence but its obviously still there and we still have the light

[hollow oar]

I remember hearing something about it not producing anymore guardians

[wind belfry]

They done sterilized the traveller

[slim elk]

Think might be more a lobotomy

[chrome fog]

It only ever made one wave of Ghosts, it’s not constantly producing ghosts; as for the affect of the Portal itself, it’s not doing anything, but it’s creation is probably the cause for the Traveler’s apparent brain death - seeing as the Traveler/Gardener’s Pale Heart was taken from it by the Witness to create the portal

[worldly river]

It's likely sentient to an equal degree as the Traveler

[chrome fog]

If you’d like to get into the lore, we’d suggest picking one single lore entry that really interests you, and either digging into related entries (in Ishtar) or asking us! We love helping people learn more about the lore

[empty fern]

Alright lore nerds, explain why vog his both the new vex and it’s own unique vex models

[chrome fog]

Henzen (whatever their name is) and Sol being there to overlook their project

Probably

[empty fern]

Interesting

Was sol also in the d1 version

[chrome fog]

They were the ones who worshipped the Black Heart, the Paracausality harvested from which made the Vault of Glass

[empty fern]

I see

So left is hezen and right is sol?

https://tenor.com/view/vex-destiny2-destiny-march-marching-gif-24546498

Ye

Also who was the big vex in this gif, looks like a brakion model or one of the large minotaurs

[cinder rampart]

how/why do overload minotaurs have access to stasis?

[smoky rose]

Not sure its explained in lore

[worldly river]

It's just slow on melee hits right? Probably same way Hive Knights have access to Solar (they don't they just burn you)

[real ingot]

Champion stuff isn’t really canon

Just a gameplay mechanic

[cinder rampart]

nah they have the stasis tornados that they shoot at you

[worldly river]

Is it a modifier? I don't remember them doing that but it might have just been a while since I've fought one

[cinder rampart]

idk 🤷‍♂️

[frigid sparrow]

... they what

I have never seen that happen once

[cinder rampart]

They shoot stasis tornados

[exotic cloak]

What

[frigid sparrow]

Is that a general overload champion thing? or is it specific to the minotaurs?

Because if it's specific, well, the vex can't use stasis at all

[versed orbit]

shouldn't vex not be able to use stasis

since they can't simulate paracausality

[frigid sparrow]

correct

[exotic cloak]

You're not confusing it with the hogoblin overload?

The one that is taken

[frigid sparrow]

that's what I'm wondering

bc rn the only two races to consistently use stasis are scorn/taken

(which to me is still weird because I really feel like other races aligned with the witness should be using more darkness powers)

[chrome fog]

There’s House Salvation but those are usually higher ups, not regular combatants

[velvet flax]

I remember hearing in The Scarlet Keep new dialogue after Beyond Light where Eris said the Hive were jealous of us because we communed with the Deep and got Stasis whilst they've had nothing

[exotic cloak]

I was excited to see a stasis hive but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen

It will stay in the dreams chest along with more variants of the lucid hive

[velvet flax]

Wish Stasis Fallen were more prevalent in the campaign

[exotic cloak]

[velvet flax]

Lucid Hive

[exotic cloak]

It's amazing but it could be more

Their champions are ordinary hive

Imagine a champion Lightbearer

[velvet flax]

Chaos Reach Ogre

Thunderclash Cursed Thrall

[exotic cloak]

I was disappointed to see that there were only 3 Lightbearers

Dude a solar knight

[chrome fog]

Stasis Hive was a thing in Lost (either that or Taken Knights) as well as a mission in Witch Queen

[exotic cloak]

Solar witch, void acolyte

[velvet flax]

Only Stasis wielding enemies are Stasis Fallen, Taken and Scorn

No Hive have, see above

[chrome fog]

Stasis Fallen is still House Salvation lieutenants and other minibosses

[velvet flax]

Yeah

[chrome fog]

And there were two Knights wielding Stasis in one mission for Witch Queen

[exotic cloak]

It is also disappointing that the house of salvation only has stasis high ranks

[velvet flax]

??

[exotic cloak]

Other than that it's like facing any other fallen

[velvet flax]

Which mission

[exotic cloak]

Again their champions are the same

[exotic cloak]

What

It has nothing to do with what we talking about but it's funny to think of Taniks dying after not even an hour of being alive

[velvet flax]

Yea

[exotic cloak]

It would be interesting if he revived a fifth time and that there was some book or weapon telling his thoughts

[velvet flax]

Doubt

We took his head

[exotic cloak]

Ah yeah

[velvet flax]

Also there was a Beyond Light lore page from Taniks POV which may interest you

[exotic cloak]

By the way, since when is the guardian such a savage?

Cut off the head and take it as a prize

[velvet flax]

I think they're fed up with Taniks at this point

Well tbh

Should do the same with Kelgorath

[exotic cloak]

The pieces of armor seem more understandable to me but we literally have the head of Taniks in Eli's house

[velvet flax]

Kelgorath has come back more times in game now than Taniks

Kelgorath (Cleaver)
Kelgorath (Splinter)
Kelgorath (Boomer)
Kelgorath (Dark Blade)
Kelgorath (Taken)

[exotic cloak]

I thought that thing was more of a high level hive enemy but apparently it is more important

[velvet flax]

He's an Ascendant Hive but with the uncanny ability to be able to return to normal space immediately after being returned to his Throne World

[frigid sparrow]

Kelgorath (Boomer)

[exotic cloak]

One question, how exactly does this Throne World thing work?

I thought it was just a hive god thing but does Mara Sov has one too?

And also, they are always things in the mind or are they tangible, i had understood that King's Fall was a throne world but then it turns out that we are in space and that Oryx corpse flies away

[velvet flax]

Oryx's Dreadnaught is a special case

When Vex invaded his Throne world

Oryx decided to 'push' it into reality but within the confines of the Dreadnaught

Aka when he died he flew out of his Throne World into space

[velvet flax]

Mara got one via Riven I believe

[velvet flax]

And they're physical

[empty fern]

Wait wtf

There’s a veil mission with a whole lot of lore on neomuna

So far it explains the effects of the veil on exos and living beings

And also notes how the vex can’t comprehend paracasuality

Oh shit these logs explain a lot

@trim grotto come here and tell me you’ve already read these logs in the mission

And if there’s anything interesting in it

[velvet flax]

Yeah that's there

[smoky rose]

Yes

[empty fern]

Ooo siva log

[smoky rose]

Most of the lore nerds knew they existed

It's been a weekly thing

[empty fern]

Oh weekly? Damn

[smoky rose]

You are catching up rn

[empty fern]

Good

[smoky rose]

Lemme know when you get to the... I'm not going to spoiler it

Itll stop giving you dialogue eventually

[empty fern]

I’m only on the siva archive, atm

Vex and cloud striders are connected and stuff

God how many logs are there

Oh chioma having breakdown?

Wait wtf lakshmi is included?

[smoky rose]

Oh you found the last one

For the moment

Tune in next week

[empty fern]

Aight

Wait

Canon wise, splicer happened a year ago?

[smoky rose]

over

[empty fern]

Aaaand done

That’s all

[smoky rose]

Until next week

[empty fern]

Damnit

[smoky rose]

Shows how shit that method of delivery is though

Unless you are a mega lore nerd you probably don't know it existed

[exotic cloak]

These stupid machines have terraformed planets and invented time but they don't understand something that we dirty humans do

[empty fern]

It was indeed after lightfall tho

[smoky rose]

Humans are fine

The Light/Dark are not

[empty fern]

Makes their 1s and 0s into trees and water without the proper supplements

[exotic cloak]

Not in this story, we praised a god who is actually...morally questionable, and tried to save him when it had become clear he was being protected

[empty fern]

This was savathuns mission right?

[smoky rose]

Said god is a she and it being "protected" would completely fuck us over

[exotic cloak]

Ah, we have also indiscriminately massacred 6 different factions of enemies

Some are justified, others are in doubt

[empty fern]

Like preserving a pool of water but the water couldn’t feed the plants nearby

[exotic cloak]

Yes, and now the traveler is threatened by the witness and his disciples

[torpid flint]

Fallen: yes
Cabal: yes
Vex: yes
Taken: FUCK YES
Hive: nothing is a war crime

[empty fern]

Oh yea, do we know what happened at the end of lf? Witness activated veil then enters the traveler? Or enters the veil before the traveler?

[torpid flint]

most of them are pretty well justified

[empty fern]

Fallen and cabal are only ones that kinda seem thin line

[torpid flint]

Only reason fallen is considered questionable is house light

[torpid flint]

The ones we’re around? Yeah

[exotic cloak]

Fallen are space wanderers whose society was destroyed because the traveler abandoned them, many times we have attacked them first and other times they attacked us first

[empty fern]

True

Leftover fallen are scavengers and cabal are, uhhhh, having leadership problems

[smoky rose]

They literally burned down london

[empty fern]

Shhhh

[smoky rose]

Saint killed innocents, The Guardian™️ has not

[velvet flax]

Witness linked the Veil with the Traveller using our Ghost and then created a portal to somewhere (generally speculated to be inside the traveller)

[empty fern]

Ah I see

[smoky rose]

Its technically speaking a wormhole

[empty fern]

Also

Any news on what the place cayde and ikora is in?

[exotic cloak]

As I said, they have shot first many times and vice versa

[empty fern]

Is it io but developed?

[worldly river]

Either inside the Traveler to or sometime in the distant past

[velvet flax]

The distant past? Where you get that from

[smoky rose]

You will note its very obviously on the other side of said wormhole

[empty fern]

Watch them reverse engineer time

[exotic cloak]

Cabal are more or less in the same situation but they are justified in attacking them for obvious reasons

[worldly river]

Ahsa's dialogue

[exotic cloak]

Taken, Scorn and Vex there is no hint of doubt

[empty fern]

Speaking of scorn

[worldly river]

I'd have to dig but she references the linking and something about "The beginning"

[velvet flax]

'There they can reshape reality itself?'

[empty fern]

Bungie made them grow a tiny culture then dropped the faction for a few years

[worldly river]

Not the big cutscene

[velvet flax]

Mhm I still don't think it's a pseudo-time machine

[smoky rose]

Perhaps an Akashic Record as the seasonal ship indicates

A record of everything that exists or existed

[exotic cloak]

And hive, hive exists for war but I don't see why we would care about the hive on the already destroyed moon or the hive on the throne world

[smoky rose]

Hence why Cayde Light Ghost™️ is in there

[velvet flax]

Especially if The Witness can still easily communicate with Xivu Arath

[empty fern]

Wait this seasons ship?

The uhhh

[smoky rose]

Yes

[exotic cloak]

I mean lucid hive had and has different motivations than the common hive

[smoky rose]

Akashic Record

[exotic cloak]

[empty fern]

Ah

[torpid flint]

Yeah, be nice if they didn’t try to steal the traveler

[empty fern]

Lucent are just, what are they doing? Following savathuns and sometimes their ghosts

[exotic cloak]

And we literally attack first on that occasion

[empty fern]

What did fynch book say again

[exotic cloak]

They were protecting him from the witness

[smoky rose]

HER

And again

[torpid flint]

Technically… no. Their ship appeared on mars

[empty fern]

Wait

[smoky rose]

Protecting the traveler from the Witness

Means all of Humanity dies

If we stop her

[empty fern]

Would the light have changed the worms inside the hive?

[velvet flax]

Is it even a her anymore

[smoky rose]

We get a chance

[torpid flint]

Not even that, ALL life dies

[smoky rose]

Yes but we are concerned with Humanity

[smoky rose]

It satiates the worm

[torpid flint]

just saying

[smoky rose]

Doesn't hunger anymore

[empty fern]

Doesn’?

Oh

[torpid flint]

Wasn’t it was a reverse effect in comparison to tithe?

[exotic cloak]

I am using the translator because I am lazy right now, it always puts he

[smoky rose]

The traveler depicts herself in visions as a female wolf

[velvet flax]

Ok yeah fair I forgor about that

[exotic cloak]

And in fact there should be a change from that? In spanish is still "EL viajero"

[exotic cloak]

A him

[worldly river]

Week 3, she references the original attempt to link the Traveler and Veil by the Witness's civilization, and says "Two halves of a whole... Long divided. A... schism between them. Reunited. A glimpse beyond... to the beginning."

[smoky rose]

Yes well in the localized english stuff, all of the traveler's communcations to us she appears as a female

Even in the original concept art the traveler is female

[worldly river]

Which imo could be read as either a literal beginning TIME, or a beginning PLACE- maybe the "place" where most of Unveiling takes place, if one wants to read it literally

[velvet flax]

I still don't think it goes back in time cus where does it go back in time to?

[empty fern]

The game?

Is the game an option?

[exotic cloak]

I fully understand the motivations of humanity to prevent the traveler from being protected but i simply cannot justify them

Our society would collapse, like the several others that collapsed upon being abandoned by the traveler, did we in fact actively massacre one of them?

[smoky rose]

It wouldn't collapse

It would be erased

Completely and entirely

[worldly river]

If we want to look at the Traveler and Veil as having been created at some time after the universe's creation, it could be whenever they were created
Or possibly back to it's civilization before it fell, though I doubt that

[velvet flax]

The Lucent Hive also actively attacked us and killed many Guardians (Season Of the Risen)

[exotic cloak]

The witness was going for the traveler

[smoky rose]

The Witness doesn't give a shit about anything

It literally created omnicidal death machines

Savathun is far from the only faction of hive

[velvet flax]

Based Grasp of Nokris moment

[exotic cloak]

I really need to play Season Of The Deep and Lightfall

[worldly river]

My money's currently on some place outside time and space, a literal manifestation of the "location" of Unveiling, but who the fuck knows

[empty fern]

Lore moment

[velvet flax]

Isn't that just.. the Black Garden

[smoky rose]

Not necessarily

[worldly river]

As I understand it the Black Garden isn't meant to be that place, assuming said place exists
Possibly a copy, if anything

[velvet flax]

One big Vex copy?

[smoky rose]

At best, yes

[velvet flax]

I thought Nessus was meant to be a copy of the Black Garden lol

[smoky rose]

Nessus is just a vex life simulation

[exotic cloak]

By the way I guess it's more explained in Destiny 1

[velvet flax]

That was a personal theory I had

[smoky rose]

Imho the most likely idea is that the Black Garden is what the Witness based the Garden in Unveiling on

[exotic cloak]

What is the relationship of the traveler and the Vex? If I understand correctly both were created in the black garden

[smoky rose]

That lore is propaganda from the witness

[exotic cloak]

But one is a god and the other is a race of time-traveling robots

[worldly river]

Interesting reverse of the traditional idea

[exotic cloak]

[empty fern]

The sentient goo in mechs

Well a very very large sentient goo

[trim grotto]

I've already read these logs in the mission and there's interesting things in it

[empty fern]

Neat

[chrome fog]

They keep going past this season, so Bungie has promised

[chrome fog]

I’m hoping as I scroll down someone has explained why this take is bad because my blood is going to boil if I have to be the one to do so

[chrome fog]

Based on the ship given by ranking up the Sonar Station plus old knowledge from the Black Garden, something akin to a repository of all that is, has, and will ever be

[real ingot]

None of us bother anymore

[chrome fog]

The Witness took Primordial Light and Primordial Darkness from the Traveler and the Veil respectively

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/take-a-deep-breath-anthony-mackie-running-wild-inhale-exhale-breathe-in-breathe-out-gif-20951417

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-do-it-myself-gauntlet-gif-10358403

Hey @exotic cloak

[exotic cloak]

[chrome fog]

The Traveler on multiple occasions does her best to raise forces against the Hive and the Witness/Pyramid fleet, even regretting the fact she has to constantly move from place to place. For all the deception and continuously hostile universe we find ourselves in, she has always been for the preservation of all life at the expense of no other

[exotic cloak]

It has ruined several societies and that is confirmed as far i know

[chrome fog]

Any doubt cast upon her values is either in times where the Status Quo has been shattered or by those who can’t imagine someone in that position responsibly choosing to help others out

[chrome fog]

I’m going to

Pop a vessel

[lethal inlet]

im lost, here, i just reach the end of quest for sonar station, when the WQ must rise

shax mentioned that we cannot control witch queen

i dont remember seeing WQ being captured

[chrome fog]

She did not kill and slaughter millions and convince others to do the same, she has solely been trying to uplift civilizations so as to help her combat the Witness and the various forces that have worked towards the Witness’ goal

[real ingot]

Her body has been captured

Her ghost is free

[chrome fog]

Savathun’s remains have been in storage to preserve them, that way it doesn’t disintegrate and she can be remotely ressurected

[lethal inlet]

meaning can be inserted with new ghost ?

[real ingot]

No her ghost is alive

[chrome fog]

The Witness is the one who decided that because it reached societal Absurdist Nihilism, it must be given a purpose for life, and the decided to go on a genocidal temper tantrum when the Traveler didn’t give one

[lethal inlet]

whos in this coffin ?

[exotic cloak]

I understand what you're saying, but by leaving this civilizations and making them collapse, don't she end up making more enemies? The fallen themselves

[chrome fog]

The Traveler has protected us at least 4 times, during the Collapse, at the end of Red War, end of Arrivals when the ships were encroaching on the Sol System, and in Lightfall

[chrome fog]

Do you blame the victim for the assailant’s actions?

She did her best, but she knows that despite what she desires it is best to run away and draw the Witness’ forces away from these civilizations once it becomes clear they cannot win

Because if she lingers there, then she further dooms all existence

[exotic cloak]

If the traveler gave power to these societies and then abandoned them causing their collapse even though it was not her initial intention, it is something that happened

[chrome fog]

And she can’t just keep running away avoiding all civilizations, the Witness would reach her eventually and then do what it is doing now

[exotic cloak]

Sure, there were reasons but the results were the results, which is why it seems questionable to me

[chrome fog]

The Witness caused their Collapses, the Traveler helped as best she could and drew them away

Again, this is putting blame on a victim

[chrome fog]

Looks like a regular crate; though Amanda Holliday died during the Season of Defiance

[exotic cloak]

I guess there is a Lore book or something from the current season/campaing that I don't see/read

Thanks for the clarifications.

[exotic cloak]

Where is that?

[lethal inlet]

its the end of the quest

shax was sad

over that coffin

i tought someone died

[exotic cloak]

Amanda or some character who died before I guess

But, Amanda corpse isn't in the villa we used as a base in Defiance?

Or is that just a monument

[slim elk]

Better then where Savathuns corpse is..
It's in Drifters freezer

[exotic cloak]

I would believe it

[slim elk]

The man's eating Hive God.

[exotic cloak]

In fact, I would perfectly buy the drifter cutting parts of his corpse to cook them

[exotic cloak]

who needs drugs

[slim elk]

Eris already cut open Savathuns corpse..

[exotic cloak]

The truth is that I actually liked the idea of ​​the traveler being morally questionable, i spoke of her as the bad one but I actually liked that idea, an unscrupulous god

Same with guardians, the iron lords are questionable and on some occasions our relationship with the fallen and the cabal can be questioned as well but it is clear that we are always the good ones

[slim elk]

You can say the Travelers guilty of neglect big time

Refused to communicate its intent or what's chasing after it

And never made a stand with Guardians-Ghosts until humanity

[exotic cloak]

I guess there will be an explanation but if it is a real error she would simply be incompetent but not bad

[slim elk]

Hence neglect heh

Or put it another way

If it spoke to make Lucent Hive stop attacking us.. would have avoided lot of trauma

[exotic cloak]

As I said in WQ we attack first but they told me that in the risen season they attacked us so I guess it was also a lack of communication

[real ingot]

exquisite cuisine

[slim elk]

How much you wanna bet he tried making Eris eat some?

[smoky rose]

They believe that given power individuals will do good

[exotic cloak]

What?

[smoky rose]

The traveler offers no guidance

It just grants power

[exotic cloak]

Yes, and she gave it to us, awakened, exos and humans, as far as it is said there was never such a relationship with the others, in fact the Ghosts did not exist in other societies apparently

[real ingot]

it was a final stand

[smoky rose]

every civilization that has been visited by the traveler has received massive technological boons

[slim elk]

As the Witness put it..
"it has nowhere left to run"

[chrome fog]

The Witness is literally just universe-level Hitler: a nihilistic sad sack of dead souls that believes it’s entitled to a defined purpose to existence despite that contradicting the meaning behind a meaningless universe - that being to determine your own purpose - and is now making it everyone’s problem/belief

The negative epitome of Nihilistic thought

[slim elk]

And its winning

[exotic cloak]

I was hoping he had more complex motivations but for now it doesn't sound very hopeful

[exotic cloak]

In itself it was obvious that he was going to lose but on top of that they already confirmed that

[chrome fog]

Doesn’t make whatever the fuck it’s doing the Right Thing, just that it’s winning and that sucks

And again, the Traveler is a victim in this situation

[slim elk]

Where did i say that? lol

[It being the "right thing"]

[exotic cloak]

We know that there will continue to be content after The Final Shape so yes or yes it will die

[chrome fog]

Because it wanted none of this bullshit, just to see life grow with the gifts it gives

[exotic cloak]

So, it really doesn't matter what they say about him anymore

[chrome fog]

Just the implication of it winning meaning it’s justified in its ideals, though yeah I jumped the gun on that. Still doesn’t hurt to spell it out for those who still think the MatPat’s old theory of “Traveler is evil”

[slim elk]

Admittedly, am curious what Bungie will cook up to let us even defeat the Witness

It tanked the travelers best shot like it was nothing.. and can carve up anything with a flick of a wrist apparently

[exotic cloak]

I entered this game last season and the three previous campaigns gave me that idea sorry

As I said, I liked it anyway, it's a bit disappointing to see that in the end she is a hero on the run and that the witness just wants to destroy everything

[smoky rose]

Not destroy everything necessarily

[chrome fog]

It’s fine, I’m mostly burnt from a Lot of long-time players coming to the “Traveler is bad” conclusion when there’s more than enough being shown that most of the tragedy caused in Destiny has been the long term machinations of the Witness or very selfish individuals

[smoky rose]

The Witness wants to completely reforge the universe

[slim elk]

Not.. destroy exactly.. remake everything in its image

[smoky rose]

They basically want to remake the universe to be something "perfect", whatever they would consider that

[chrome fog]

It’s either or at this point, who can tell with nihilistic authoritarianism

[exotic cloak]

Thanos?

[smoky rose]

To create a nice organized garden

[exotic cloak]

[chrome fog]

Worse than Thanos, and even he was an idiot

[exotic cloak]

He was cool at least

[smoky rose]

The witness wants to take this

[exotic cloak]

Rhulk was stupid and I can imagine what things I will hear when I root

[smoky rose]

And turn it into this

[exotic cloak]

Well it doesn't sound so bad actually

[chrome fog]

Cool but follows that same dangerous nihilistic ideology of “The Fittest will Survive”, which is the point of them being villains and holding these beliefs

[chrome fog]

The entire garden will be dedicated to essentially the Sword Logic

So all existence basically

Will just be us killing over and over again

[smoky rose]

We don't really know what they want it to be

[chrome fog]

Across galaxies and nebulas

[exotic cloak]

The pyramid in Shadowkeep at least told things that were true. Rhulk was elitist and that's it

[slim elk]

Nah, not even that.
Its straight up gonna hijack the universe and become God

[exotic cloak]

[smoky rose]

That's the Hive's definition

There are many definitions of what the Witness wants

All we know is it wants to reforge the universe into a perfect final shape

Where there is no pain or chaos

[chrome fog]

And it’ll probably make it so that all life has to follow that ideology

[slim elk]

So lets figure.. how are we gonna beat the Witness?

[chrome fog]

Greater Will

Joined Willpower

Probably

[exotic cloak]

Witness wants to play and rts?

[smoky rose]

Bomb logic

[chrome fog]

Considering that’s the driving force behind Paracausality in general and we’re basically just going to have to overpower them somehow

[slim elk]

Replicate its creation over in Neomuna and potentially find a weakness in its formation?

[exotic cloak]

I need a cinematic of all the titans going to tcrash him

[slim elk]

If can split apart the species compromsing it...

Defintely will hurt its power level

[exotic cloak]

It has nothing to do with what we talking about but is there an explanation for having infinite bullets?

[chrome fog]

What creation over Neomuna?

[dim minnow]

are people saying the Traveler isn't benevolent again?

[chrome fog]

Iron Banner Enjoyer, but they’ve only started recently

[exotic cloak]

I started playing the previous season sorry

[chrome fog]

So they’ve hadn’t had time to deep dive into how and why it’s mainly the Witness’ fault

[exotic cloak]

Now I'm disappointed because I liked the idea of ​​the Traveler being morally questionable and the witness having complex motives

[slim elk]

Have you forgotten?
Osiris directly compared what Maya was pulling to the Witness creation
I'd bet the Cloudark.. if its not the exact same basis how the Witness merged.. is pretty damn similar

[exotic cloak]

But it's literally good vs evil, again

[slim elk]

Have all the pieces needed to create "another" Witness over in Neomuna...

[chrome fog]

That was Lakshmi, she was the result of that

That’s it

[slim elk]

"For now"

After all, those logs aint over yet XD

[chrome fog]

And where is her pile of corpses

[slim elk]

looks at all them civies neatly all crammed into pods and linked via the Cloudark

mayas research was the basis for it after all

[torpid flint]

Technically they’re “dead” robots”

On a side note, how does auto correct do that above?

I’m sure they’re many dead corpses. We didn’t know how much of a pile of shit Clovis was until BL after all

[slim elk]

Yep, thinking Maya pulled the same act to cover up her misdeeds.. thus the conspiracy behind Neomuna's gov

lakshmi being a "proof of concept".. then moving up eventually to entire city population

[rigid flower]

It's not benevolent, its a ball.

[zealous dust]

[muted rune]

Which popped out of the ground mysteriously

[ember storm]

what?

[trim grotto]

The Witness cutscene showed it half buried

[ember storm]

that's gonna need lots of shovels

or a really big shovel

[real ingot]

big spoon

[fresh zephyr]

😂

[unreal tulip]

Can anyone gain access to powers of darkness? Unlike the traveler where u need to be "chosen"

[trim grotto]

Theoretically, but you have to choose to claim it when it is offered. Or outright take it, if possible.

As example, Eris and Elsie, both Lightless. Elsie wasn't ever even a Lightbearer to begin with.

[deft bison]

Always wondered does canon prime Osiris solo D2 ?

[trim grotto]

i have no idea what any of that means

Do you mean... would Osiris, in his prime, be able to accomplish what we've done ourselves?

[fiery copper]

given that canon prime osiris lost to xivu arath's wet fart, imma say no

[tawdry mauve]

solo d2 as in kill everything thats a threat?

clearly not

considering he lost lol

[ember storm]

he’d definitely be getting in his own way a ton

whereas the guardian is such a blank slate they have zero irredeemable qualities to hinder themselves

[exotic cloak]

Wait but Elsie has a ghost

Or what is that that flies next to her?

[exotic cloak]

Eramis and her gang managed to dominate it

[ember storm]

that’s a poulka

those are just things from neomuna

zero ghost qualities

She has no access to the light

[unreal tulip]

Just little guys being cute

[exotic cloak]

Wait where do she get it then?

[ember storm]

drifter hasn’t interacted with one so we don’t know if they’re edible

[tawdry mauve]

somewhere near pluto afaik

or something like that

"A Pouka was encountered by Elisabeth Bray on an abandoned space station near Pluto's orbit, and would later accompany her on Europa."

[exotic cloak]

At first I thought that Eramis was chosen but in the campaign it is explained that Praksis learned to dominate the darkness thanks to the fragments of the pyramid

I don't know what those floating things are called in English

[tawdry mauve]

floating things?

[exotic cloak]

For when we defeat the leaders they give us their... stones?

[exotic cloak]

In europa

[ember storm]

we just steal it off their corpses

[tawdry mauve]

stasis splinters?

or whatever

[ember storm]

none of the fallen can control stasis like we do

they have to use technology with the little shards

[tawdry mauve]

?

these?

splinters of darkness

[exotic cloak]

Yeah

[exotic cloak]

Stasis is within us, it's part of us

With them it's, like it's a power up basically

[unreal tulip]

I love the way the europa guns look

[tawdry mauve]

thanks

[ember storm]

that’s the point of the story yes

in the beginning we’re just using one of those shards like training wheels

at the end we can use it without any help

while Eramis and all the other fallen have to rely on technology

[exotic cloak]

Well, I still think they can learn to master it without technology

[ember storm]

that’s not mastery

as demonstrated by Eramis, it’s entirely dependent on technology

if something goes wrong it goes very wrong

[exotic cloak]

Apparently Osiris will teach the cabal to use stasis and the strand or something like that someone say

[tawdry mauve]

noone said this

[ember storm]

it was mentioned

[tawdry mauve]

when

[exotic cloak]

Let me look for the message they told me here

[tawdry mauve]

i just know they mentioned osiris going with saladin on a carrier

[unreal tulip]

Grappling cabal

[ember storm]

that was that same conversation

[short badge]

Why are more powerful enemies always bigger?

[ember storm]

it depends

[tawdry mauve]

imo it had no implication he was going to be teaching them anything

[ember storm]

hive gave tribute to their gods and got bigger

[tawdry mauve]

i must have missed it

i guess

[ember storm]

vex are just built bigger

[short badge]

I mean basic stuff like fallen

[tawdry mauve]

for fallen the more ether they consume the bigger they get

[ember storm]

fallen warlords and criminals gorge themselves on ether and get huge

[exotic cloak]

Ah I found it the guy was confused

[short badge]

Ooooohhhh

[ember storm]

the biggest cabal are just going to be in higher positions

[exotic cloak]

Osiris will teach them about darkness, not how to use it.

[tawdry mauve]

thats why the fallen in the tower are captain sized but look like dregs

dregs are effectively stuntted in growth by rationing ether

[exotic cloak]

So yeah we are the only ones with access besides the remnants of the house of salvation

[ember storm]

all the fallen in the tower are still underdeveloped

[exotic cloak]

And the friends of the witness

[tawdry mauve]

yes but they have a lot more ether now

[ember storm]

Mithrax is the only one that’s captain sized

[tawdry mauve]

a lot of them are still missing arms

[ember storm]

they still have to ration

[tawdry mauve]

eido is close

[tawdry mauve]

not as much

rationing before wasnt really because they were lacking in ether

[unreal tulip]

Is there a reason the spiders fallen have Spikes n stuff?

[tawdry mauve]

it was more of a control thing

[short badge]

Do they gain more arms when eating ether?

[tawdry mauve]

asthetics

[tawdry mauve]

they naturally have 4 arms

and can regenerate them by consuming ether

[ember storm]

fallen have a little bit of limb regeneration in them

ether is just a big part of how their body operates

[tawdry mauve]

they are very crab and lizard and spider like

altough ether is not a substitute for food

they still need actual food

[ember storm]

they just put metal caps on their arms to stop growth

[exotic cloak]

Wait then when we destroy the servitors looking for ether we leave them without eating

[tawdry mauve]

thats why spider is big from ether and food from food itself

[exotic cloak]

[tawdry mauve]

servitors produce ether

[ember storm]

spider is still captain sized

[exotic cloak]

That is more cruel than directly killing them

[ember storm]

he’s literally just fat

[tawdry mauve]

he looks slightly above captain sized

it could be that he is always elevated

[ember storm]

because he’s in a big chair

[tawdry mauve]

but yeah he is fat

[short badge]

And what about cabal, calus is bigger than my house

[tawdry mauve]

very fat

[ember storm]

his legs are still just normal

[ember storm]

witness power

[tawdry mauve]

the bigger they think of themselves the bigger they grow

[ember storm]

he was normal sized before

[tawdry mauve]

which is how calus described it

[ember storm]

that was just bullshit

[tawdry mauve]

altough he is an unreliable narrator imo

[tawdry mauve]

yes

yes it was

[ember storm]

cabal are just really good at genetic engineering

[short badge]

Ooohhhh

[tawdry mauve]

pretty much why the psions can also grow large

[ember storm]

also of course the biggest cabals will climb the ranks better

[tawdry mauve]

even though they are a different species

[ember storm]

it’s just how things turn out

[short badge]

????

[tawdry mauve]

psions are not biologically related to the cabal

[ember storm]

psion are a separate species that the cabal enslaved

Cabal species and cabal empire are two different things

[tawdry mauve]

yep

[ember storm]

although Caiatl officially gave Psions rights and freedoms a few years back

they were slaves under Calus’ rule

[exotic cloak]

I thought the cabal were something like the convenat, are there more species?

[short badge]

Is torobatl like literally destroyed or just overrun with hive?

[ember storm]

hive don’t take over things

[tawdry mauve]

cabal, psion, warbeasts

thats about it

[ember storm]

they just kill

if torobotl even still exists it’d just be rubble

otherwise I’d assume the planet is just destroyed

[short badge]

But the planet itself still exists

[tawdry mauve]

well whats the point

[unreal tulip]

Ghosts are only given when the traveler chooses someone right? If someone steals the light, they don't have a ghost still?

[tawdry mauve]

just get a different planet at that point

[tawdry mauve]

no

[ember storm]

traveler doesn’t have direct choice

[tawdry mauve]

ghosts choose the guardian

[exotic cloak]

I guess it will be some kind of throne world now?

[tawdry mauve]

thats why savathun and the hive have ghosts

[ember storm]

the ghost just finds whoever’s the most close to their own light

[tawdry mauve]

the ghosts chose them

[ember storm]

no

[tawdry mauve]

the only time we saw someone steal the light was ghaul

[unreal tulip]

So a ghost could've chosen ghaul?

[ember storm]

hive just kill civilizations and leave their planets in ruin

[ember storm]

he’d have to be dead

[tawdry mauve]

a ghost could hypothetically choose anyone

[short badge]

All fun until a ghost chooses the witness when we kill it

[ember storm]

and the corpse would have to exist

[tawdry mauve]

im sure they could

[trim grotto]

She does not. Pouka, from Neomuna. Except she found hers abandoned in a space station.

[ember storm]

the witness is already kind of half dead and probably doesn’t even have a physical body

[tawdry mauve]

if not the witness itself probably the remnants of the race

[ember storm]

a ghost would only be able to pick out like one guy from the witness pile

if it were even possible to revive any of it

[tawdry mauve]

some roof layer named jim

or something

[ember storm]

this is Toby

he is the witness

[exotic cloak]

Now this is the plot after Final Shape

[tawdry mauve]

we already know the vex are involved

post final shape

vex rn are as big of a threat as the witness is imo

its just that they are taking their sweet time

[ember storm]

that’s how they do things

[tawdry mauve]

yeah they really dont care

[ember storm]

they’re a big threat but they love taking their time

[tawdry mauve]

they are confindent they will succeed

[short badge]

I love the vex, hope they do some crazy shit

[ember storm]

it’s not like they die of old age

they have zero reason to be brash

[tawdry mauve]

or die at all honestly

[exotic cloak]

Wasn't there going to be something about taking back the cabal planet?

[tawdry mauve]

how do you even destroy radolaria

[ember storm]

the only times they’ve done this is the sol divisive invasions because they’re stupid

[tawdry mauve]

like even if you destroyed a unit that radiolaria has to go somewhere

[ember storm]

and the endless night because Savathun was secretly directing them

[tawdry mauve]

even if its on the ground its bound to start doing something to it

[ember storm]

just disintegrate them

also I think if it’s a small enough bit it can just evaporate

[tawdry mauve]

yeah i guess high heat always does the trick

[ember storm]

Elsie literally crushed one with her heel

[tawdry mauve]

pretty much a way to destroy everything in the universe

high enough heat and you could do it

[exotic cloak]

Well I guess Bungo would invent a way but wouldn't the Vex be like, literally unstoppable?

[ember storm]

they are

[exotic cloak]

if they can always come back and make more and more units whenever they want

[tawdry mauve]

the only advantage we have is paracausality

[ember storm]

it’s physically impossible to destroy all vex

[tawdry mauve]

if the vex pulled up to our real world

rn

[ember storm]

we delay them

[tawdry mauve]

we are done

[ember storm]

that’s all we’ve ever done

[tawdry mauve]

nothing we have could compete

vex litterally work by the rules of the actual real life world

cause and effect blah blah

[ember storm]

the only reason the vex haven’t just pulled up on earth and wiped us out is because they just don’t feel like it

it’s not the way they do things

so they just don’t

[tawdry mauve]

they have also proven to be able to wipe us from time itself

[ember storm]

they like inventing big doomsday machines that’ll sneeze and erase us from the timeline

they don’t like just shooting at us

[exotic cloak]

Hey, but one question, did the traveler and the Vex come from the same place?

[tawdry mauve]

no

[ember storm]

depends

[exotic cloak]

Black garden

[ember storm]

if unveiling is taken literally, the gardener and winnower just existed

[tawdry mauve]

the vex didnt come from the black garden

[ember storm]

doesn’t mean that’s where they came from

that’s where they just were

[tawdry mauve]

yep

also the black garden is most likely not the same garden the witness was building

[halcyon halo]

Did we ever learn more about the ghosts Drifter was referring to? Ghosts that had a desire to become more powerful and grow their connection to the light?

[ember storm]

don’t remember anything like that

the only ghosts I’ve heard drifter talk about is ones that were just mean

[halcyon halo]

from drifters log of "how to be drifter part 3" or something like that

[tawdry mauve]

how to be drifter?

[halcyon halo]

posted it in media

[tawdry mauve]

you could have posted it here

[halcyon halo]

just tried, doesn't let me

[ember storm]

that uh

doesn’t look official

[tawdry mauve]

thats a fan made animation btw

[exotic cloak]

A very cool one

[halcyon halo]

I know the whole animation was fan made, but the lore isn't from an existing piece?

[exotic cloak]

I think they also told me here but I hadn't understood it very well, hadn't the drifter upgraded his Ghost?

[ember storm]

pretty sure you’re thinking of another thing

the one with drifter recounting a village being destroyed by rogue iron lords

[ember storm]

using bits and pieces of other ghosts, yes

the process has left it mute

[exotic cloak]

Has it been explained what differences it has with other Ghosts?

[ember storm]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/notorious-reaper-bond

[chrome fog]

More like on government provisions from the Witness

[chrome fog]

The Vex are still an issue and the Nine have potential to become problems too, though they could remain ‘friendly’

[ember storm]

nine are kind of losers

I’m genuinely surprised people keep asking about them

[chrome fog]

They are, but then again so is the Witness

[ember storm]

honestly it’s probably the reason why bungie decided to kill Rasputin

[exotic cloak]

Something I didn't understand, did the drifter steal from them or did they finance him?

[ember storm]

really isn’t all that relevant at the moment and really can’t contribute in any meaningful way but they were sorta popular awhile ago

[chrome fog]

Mm, they might ignore or write off the Nine since Bungie seems to be moving away from older stuff they made under the old guard and Activision

[ember storm]

only difference is Rasputin was clearly set up to come back so they had to kill him

with the nine they’re just completely ignored

[chrome fog]

They just gave him the haul

[ember storm]

which supplies him with faken

some taken, namely primevals are summoned

the rest are just like the ones in prophecy or reckoning

fake

[chrome fog]

Doesn’t he mention Orin relatively recently?

I could also be crazy

[ember storm]

I only care about my man xur

[chrome fog]

Poor dying Xur

[ember storm]

the nine have zero healthcare benefits

[chrome fog]

No wonder he accepted that side gig with Juan the Starhorse

[green cobalt]

he does

[chrome fog]

Neat

Plus his contribution is how the Nine planned for him to have the Haul for a situation like what is currently happening

[pearl storm]

The nine deserve a standalone dlc away from this saga tbh

I hope we have some less interconnected stuff for a while

A lot of stuff deserves the spotlight without being connected to another big bad

[chrome fog]

Well, then it wouldn’t be that compelling to players, then, would it?

Sure we have non-combat activity, but like the Nine have been interwoven into the narrative before many elements were introduced

Prophecy is a literal prophecy of what happens in game

Watching the cutscene again, and damn the Witness really was a spoiled piece of shit

[wind belfry]

I want my ball back 😭😭😭

[fiery copper]

so does this week's audio log indirectly confirm that maya was INCREDIBLY RACIST towards aliens?

[chrome fog]

Not insomuch she was Xenophobic, but Maya was the original founder of FWC, if not one of the followings that evolved into FWC

Not to mention that by the Collapse Humanity will have very little if any context with aliens

Lakshmi had a big portion of the Dark Ages and everything up to Splicer to experience our campaigns against these various aliens who want to defeat us for various reasons

[pearl storm]

It already isn't compelling to players...

[slim elk]

I can see Bungie having a bit of an issue justifying some enemy factions still existing after Final Shape..
Just look at the Fallen, already have major alliance with House Light

Taken-Scorn are another potential write-off
With no Witness.. what would even be directing them?

[ember storm]

as previously established, scorn are directing themselves

and only some of them decided to ally up with the witness

fikrul is still unaccounted for

taken also flock to whatever's able to direct them (which isn't even tied to having the power to take)

there's still loads of fallen who either just won't want to cooperate with humanity and just want to live for themselves

if anything, i'd expect some house light members to abruptly jump ship once the universe-ending witness debacle is dealt with

and while salvation may be under the black fleet's thumb, the current members all had tons of chances to defect if they wanted to

they still willingly flew the banner of genocide

[chrome fog]

Probably to those that have been playing for too long, but one of the major aspects of Destiny is the sprawling storylines that interconnect and weave, the histories that are connected to each other once you research them. Otherwise why would there be an entire lore channel?

[exotic cloak]

Part of me keeps wondering why we don't just kill Eramis, I guess it's the same situation with Immaru

[ember storm]

she just runs away

immaru also just ran away

[slim elk]

Aye
On flip side of it would actually have larger forces on Vanguards side helping to reclaim territory after the big names are wiped off the board
Caitals troops clearing out the last diehard Red Legion.. and Shadow Legion can't clone forever

[ember storm]

we didn't get the chancce to

[exotic cloak]

Both Eramis and Immaru were in vulnerable situations where shooting ended them

[ember storm]

again, plot