📚lore-discussion

[smoky rose]

Elsie?

Or Eli as in one of the Drifter's aliases

[exotic cloak]

In Spanish I remember they called her Elizabeth a couple of times, I guess the name is Elsie

[smoky rose]

Yes

She's been a minor character in a few seasons and showed up in a few cutscenes

Not much overall though

Season of the Seraph which is gone now and I can't really think of anything else

She was in the HELM during the Lightfall cutscenes

[exotic cloak]

Great

[outer dragon]

Her given name is Elizabeth
Elsie is a nickname

[exotic cloak]

The truth is that I expected that after hearing her name the npc would change the name but she is still unknown exo

[chrome fog]

Regional names can change, could’ve been changed to Eli in Spanish translation

[fresh zephyr]

What in-game classes are the most lore accurate

[chrome fog]

All of them

Because they all exist

Much of what our builds consist of are built on past practices by older notable groups of Risen

[fierce dune]

A destiny narrative dev had to say that most of unveiling is metaphors and not true and that to me is very shocking

[chrome fog]

“Most”

Similar to Savathun’s stuff

[fierce dune]

Also religious text

[fresh zephyr]

Hey y’all question

The pyramid ship on titan is it shutdown permanently like the vow one?

[chrome fog]

If you’re talking in general, this is not the place, but if in reference to the Destiny universe than literally yes

[fresh zephyr]

Or no

[chrome fog]

Seemingly so; we don’t know which disciple it belongs to - as each pyramid is associated with a disciple

That doesn’t prevent them from shifting, as they seem to have self-sentience

[fresh zephyr]

Maybe in a dorment state at the moment

[chrome fog]

That would be the same as the Luna Pyramid, or even the Throneworld Pyramid

[fresh zephyr]

But rhulk ship can’t be used

Because of its damage

So it could be destroyed from the inside technically

[chrome fog]

And have we been able to damage a Pyramid ship? Not necessarily. Mara was after considerable effort but it nearly left her and Eris near death

[empty fern]

Or the giant worm corpse

[chrome fog]

Also what suggests Rhulk’s Pyramid is damaged, it seems perfectly operational just submerged in the Miasma of the Throneworld

[empty fern]

Was the worm god powering it or something?

[chrome fog]

It was powering THE UPENDED

[empty fern]

Oh yea

[chrome fog]

So not the Pyramid

[empty fern]

Guess it’s just infested with leftover scorn?

[slim elk]

Savathun at bare minimum managed to disable it and trap Rhulk inside

[proper leaf]

who would win and why, starhorse or the witness

[empty fern]

Star horse

Because it’s just bungie

And they will rewrite the witness

[chrome fog]

Star Horse

Who casually pulls Crotas out of the Paraverse for entertainment

[outer dragon]

Star horse a goof

[chrome fog]

A goof that can make you disappear in an instant

[vocal imp]

Very stupid question but how many gods has our guardian killed so far?

[chrome fog]

At least 4, if for enemies with the title of God specifically

[vocal imp]

Who are?

[chrome fog]

Oryx, Savathun, Xol, Nezarec

[slim elk]

Forgot Crota

[chrome fog]

First two are Hive Gods (Sav on a technicality), Xol is a Worm God, Nezarec is Final God of Pain

[chrome fog]

Demi-God

Though that’s semantics

A lot of these are, considering how we’ve beaten non-gods and had more trouble doing so

[green cobalt]

rhulk:

[vocal imp]

Long legs*

[chrome fog]

Rhulk wasn’t worshiped as a god, probably says they’re pitiful since he kicked the shit out of the Worm Gods’ mom

[green cobalt]

well he was stronger

[vocal imp]

Oh uh when I asked I meant what enemies have we killed that have powers comparable to a god? Not those specifically referred to as gods or worshipped

[chrome fog]

I’m a brick wall, I’m dumb; Rhulk is an example of a non-god being stronger

[chrome fog]

If you argue Taniks being some kind of technological demiurge that comes back over and over again then basically all of our major enemies are comparable to Gods

[green cobalt]

kelgorath

[tulip knoll]

Watcg kelgorath just end up fighting alongside us as a light bearer with savathun

[vocal imp]

How many times have we brutally murdered taniks

[chrome fog]

3-4ish times

Kelgorath has died every time we ran his seraph mission

[green cobalt]

he rejected savathûn after she got the light though didn't he

though i guess he wouldn't remember it if he became a lightbearer

[slim elk]

Kelogorath has basically run out of stuff to be now

Now is Taken

[real ingot]

In terms of an Eliksni god Aksis fits that role pretty well

Taniks was an Eliksni turned into a machine

Aksis was an Eliksni fused with a machine

[drifting glacier]

hey so as a classic destiny 2 experience, I was midway listening to the veil quest finale but got kicked out of the game due to an error code, now I can't listen to it, does anyone know what happened or have the audio to share

[slim elk]

If your talking the actual battle with tornentor... not much there
This is the latest
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qK4te84rflo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q94CvaaHOO8&list=PLS2hBTtCDufQ-h9RA3e-GZElbqNS9GyBP&index=1&pp=iAQB

(First mission)

[drifting glacier]

thanks I was just talking about the latest one, it seems that there is still more weeks to come

I got bungied lol

[slim elk]

Yeah
Basically amounts to the Cloudark if not being the process how Witness was created.... is extremely damn similar

[drifting glacier]

I say there is probably one more week of dialogue, hopefully the ending is good

[raven glen]

Hive? Maybe new cabal cus they got power of witness in a way if that counts. Savathuns minions cus they had the light. Oryx. I say fanatic has godlike powers cus he immortal. Ghaul tbh many characters id say have godlike powers enemies i mean

At this point doesn’t like every enemy have godlike powers now😭

[drifting glacier]

the only thing I don't like right now is that it feels that we are going a bit backwards on the whole light and dark being neutral forces, and returning to the whole thing of darkness and the veil specifically corrupting people, I hope they explain this later and what is it that people see when they connect to the veil that make them go witness mode, my theory is that it could be connected to unveiling

like when they connect to the veil they are overwhelmed by all of excistence and see the primordial conflict of the universe

[raven glen]

Didn’t it say that the people of witness saw chaos from it not something good?

[slim elk]

Chaos in the Light

..
Basically made manifest with guardians

[raven glen]

Basically not sure if that not good or wat it means i don’t speak smart 😀

[drifting glacier]

all im saying is that the whole thing of the veil corrupting people seems like a step back on the idea that the darkness and light are neutral, but then again it could also mean that the traveler and the veil are not darkness and light but entities themselves with agendas

[slim elk]

Short version: Light could get civilizations developing paracausal weapons that would utterly destroy reality

Saw hints with Clovis having such weapons in golden age

whatever Elsie hijacked to try and destroy DSC

[drifting glacier]

the witness basically has the same exact end goal as thanos in endgame, remake the universe to remove strife and unpredictibility from it

destroying our universe in the process

[slim elk]

Seems like a step further to me.. Winnower and Gardener likely won't take it well their game is being hijacked

[drifting glacier]

I more see it as the light's creation of life can also lead to its destruction through natural circumstances and the witness wishes to remove this "chaos" from the universe

I still think unveiling is a thing, we just don't know exactly how, its a religious text written by the witness and in my opinion its probably how the witness interpreted what it saw at the beginning of the universe through the veil

[raven glen]

Thanos but more worse 😀 small price to pay for salvation so witness is not totally heartless just inraged with hate so he not just some psychopathical mutant alien god 😀 man just want to live in a world of peace but tbh at the same time a world cannot exist without that balance of peace and chaos basically mans tryna delete free will

[drifting glacier]

we were never supposed to take unveiling at a face value, eris literally tells us not to trust it, and idk how some people took it as instant fact from the beginning without questioning its validity

[drifting glacier]

I mean they both want to do the same thing, (im talking about endgame thanos here), destroy the universe to take away strife and pain, similar in a lot of ways

[raven glen]

Tbh i don’t think our gaurdian trust it either i think our gaurdian is a more fuck it imma risk it or tryna find out everything a curiosity little guy 🙂

[drifting glacier]

for some reason a lot of people are mad at bungie for retconning something that they didn't retcon, they just misundertood a piece of lore and took it as fact instantly without looking further into it

[raven glen]

True. Honestly it is wat it is cus lore is lore

At this point idk how final shape gonna be cus theres still so many questions about the viel and traveler

Perhaps final shape will be a dlc on explaining it and they better explain it lol i aint about riddles

Hey but if witness succeeds that means no chaos meaning better xur drops 😀….hehehe😐

[trim grotto]

you get used to it
just let 'em do their thing and continue onwards with your own opinions, unless solid evidence is otherwise presented

[chrome fog]

They saw the destructive potential of the Light and feared its use without regulation

[blazing wasp]

The traveler does favor chaos and unpredictability

Chaos isn't inherently bad nor good

[chrome fog]

The inherent beauty of limitless potential in existence and whatnot, yet it’s ironic that the Witness species got so hung up on their God being right there and wanting a defined purpose to living from it that they are willing to force it upon the rest of the universe

[raven glen]

So basically maybe traveler wanna keep a balance but witness does not like balance world he wishes only Ig peace but that can’t happen cus need chaos jn general if that makes sense ita free will in a way. Well mr many heads gotta chil cus he gotta understand we need as a balance but i aint convincing him. But my friend called ace of spades will do the explaining in battle 😀it do alk the talking

[chrome fog]

Got a big spinfoil for this:
In studying/communing with the Veil, the Witness species were able to parse the memory of the universe’s creation, hence why the Witness can present knowledge of such in Unveiling. However, the connection went both ways, and the desire for a Winnower, a god to give focus and purpose infected the Veil itself. And so the Winnower begins to emerge within two entities: the Witness itself and the Veil.

[raven glen]

Tbh i just wanna put a bullet in something:) as a hunter idk all this lore commander zavala just said their be lots of loot

[real ingot]

there*

[chrome fog]

The Gardener is for giving life many opportunities and allowing it to explore them all, with no dictation on what should and shouldn’t be done. However, the Witness species reached the nihilistic conclusion of “existence has no inherent meaning” and sought a direct purpose from the Traveler/Gardener. She did not do this because she wants all living things to dictate their own purpose in life, but the Witness species got too butthurt over not being handed a purpose in life that they sought the Veil for answers. While they didn’t really get any, they did find a way to bring about their desire through the use of the Darkness; after all, the Darkness is of the mind and conscious thought, so with enough power the Witness can bend all of existence’s will to Winnow itself out until the “most deserving” entity lives out th

[raven glen]

Bouta go witness on you instead 😐

[chrome fog]

Punctuation does help a lot

[real ingot]

that does not make grammatical sense

[chrome fog]

They gonna stalk you, Avlus

[real ingot]

Used to it

[raven glen]

Since when did this turn into english class😭

[chrome fog]

i keep forgetting

[raven glen]

U mean….. WE

[chrome fog]

Who’s we, I ain’t stalking Avlus

[real ingot]

'They' refers to multiple however you are singular

[raven glen]

Witness joke cus u know many bodies into one or souls ig its souls

[chrome fog]

Fair, I was using it improperly

[real ingot]

They can also be considered singular if used in the right context

[royal portal]

Witness = multiversal they/them king

trans rights will no longer be asked for

[rigid flower]

Quick question, does Drifter still have his ghost?

[ember storm]

yes

[rigid flower]

Aight, thank you.

[ember storm]

the ghost is mute and does basically nothing

which is a mood

[tulip quest]

Cause of the newest season story do you reckon we gonna awake savathunn and if we do does anyone feel like the third darkness subclass will be hive magic or something like it?

[slim perch]

that’s what strand was supposed to be

[tulip quest]

Yh ig but i want like full necromancy lol

[slim perch]

hive aint necromancers if I recall

they’re kinda, anti necromancy until recently with lucent hive lightbearers and gotd

exceptions being nokris or whoever that son or whatever of oryx was

[peak coral]

bro in pit

idk i forgot his name

zulmak (pit boss) is supposed to be the blud that gets revived

then again idk

[trim grotto]

The Hidden Swarm also turned heretical.

[wheat latch]

Any1 got a good credible resource for catching up on seasonal story in lf?

[chrome fog]

They/Them Deity, gender neutral and higher up

[chrome fog]

That was what Strand was actively avoiding becoming, because Bungie wanted subclasses to feel original

[ember storm]

as an nb, we prefer the term supreme overlord

[fiery copper]

as someone who is not an enby, i can confirm that the N.B. actually stands for Nsupreme Boverlord

[trim grotto]

Supreme Bovinelord

Otherwise known as
The Cow Thing™️

[ember storm]

i bring a sort of doghive vibe to the lore chat that regulars don't really like

[trim grotto]

Look I'm entirely here for Doghive

[ember storm]

everybody loves doghives.

[trim grotto]

Thank you for this treasure, Destiny Lore Writer Seth Dickinson, who created Doghives

[ember storm]

[fiery copper]

just reading that triggers my trypophobia

they're probably the goodest of boys but like'

[chrome fog]

They pull out the honeycombs themselves? That’s kinda sick but also unnerving

Cannot wait to see a doghive

[wheat latch]

Is there any significant connection between thorn, osteo, and necrotic?

[tawdry mauve]

yes

they are weapons of sorrow

all 3

[wheat latch]

Does that just mean like hive imbued?

[tawdry mauve]

oh wait

necrotic

i read that as touch of malice

for some reason

[wheat latch]

Lol

[trim grotto]

Thorn is, Osteo probably is, and the Grips were made by studying Thorn

So was Osteo really

[tawdry mauve]

thorn, osteo, touch of malice and the auto from crotas end are all weapons of sorrow

[trim grotto]

Weapons of Sorrow are both very specifically and vaguely defined

[tawdry mauve]

isnt it man made attempts at hive magic

or some shit like that

sum like that

[trim grotto]

They're human weapons that have been repurposed, cursed, and turned against us by the Hive
Hence, Sorrow

But I would argue there's a more apt description

Weapons of Sorrow are magical, cursed guns... that hunger. For Light. For life.

[wheat latch]

Is it possible that they could all be linked via another "subclass" also related to the hive and what you described?

[trim grotto]

That's what people said Strand was going to be

It wasn't, shockingly enough

[wheat latch]

But that turned out to be entirely different

[tawdry mauve]

there definetely wont be a hive subclass

[wheat latch]

It's just weird to me that these weapons function as their own special element

[tawdry mauve]

if anything there probably wont be a 3rd darkness subclass period

because why should there be

[trim grotto]

Indeed
The whole "poison/Hive subclass" theory has been going since BL launched
It's the subclass theorycrafter's bread and butter
I also entirely do not believe it will happen

[tawdry mauve]

imo i prefer there being 2 darkness and 3 light subclasses

light and dark are polar opposites

not mirrors

no reason for there to be 3/3 other than satisfying "symmetry"

[wheat latch]

Think they'll expand on weapons of sorrow any more than they have already? Like more lore and stuff, not a new subclass

[trim grotto]

WoS have been around since D1, and we got a new one* with WQ
So yeah probably
(*Osteo may not be a proper one, but it's assumed due to the interactions and studies that birthed it)

[wheat latch]

What exactly are the projectiles of thorn and osteo? My understanding is thorn is like a hive shard thingy and osteo is like slugs

[trim grotto]

Thorn fires giant...
Thorns

Osteo is a bit more unclear, as the gun and its projectiles appear... alive.

[wheat latch]

Doesn't malf shoot slugs? Similar to osteo?

[tawdry mauve]

osteo doesnt shoot slugs

[trim grotto]

Slugs that are also somehow explosive
Taken magic is a heck of a thing

Osteo does not shoot slugs

It fires little wiggly bullet Worm things

[wheat latch]

So like.... slugs

Lol

[trim grotto]

Do you know what a Slug is

In ammo terms

[wheat latch]

No, I meant like slimy slug

[trim grotto]

It's an actual projectile type

Usually loaded into shotguns

[wheat latch]

I'm talking abt snails without shells lmao

[tawdry mauve]

malf doesnt fire

snail slugs

either

lmfao

[wheat latch]

XD

[trim grotto]

Malf fires actual ammunition slugs

Not wigglies

Osteo is unique in the wigglies

[wheat latch]

Okay, we're getting somewhere here

Wigglies, I like that term

[tawdry mauve]

malf is technically a shotgun revolver

as well

since slugs are exclusive to shotgun ammo its probably a 410

which is kinda stupid

[trim grotto]

Well, that's the thing
Handcannons are not designed for mortal humans

Most aren't anyway

They're designed for Guardians

[tawdry mauve]

i wouldnt say all of them

a lot of the hand cannons dont fire large calibers

[wheat latch]

So when we dislocate our thumb and wrist when firing our ghost can heal it

[trim grotto]

True
But there's an old D1 weapon and ammo catalogue actually showing calibres and sizes

It's nifty

[tawdry mauve]

lunas howl says it fires .44

[trim grotto]

Luna's has been through a lot in its life

[tawdry mauve]

also speaking of josef

i just want to say

he is a fucking idiot

for bringing his dog to fight the hive

[trim grotto]

Yeah I can't really defend that choice

[tawdry mauve]

god imagine what the dog went through

the thrall have sharp ass fucking claws

[trim grotto]

Took the dog
To the MOON
To fight HIVE

WHY

[tawdry mauve]

also the dude brought her to at the time most dangerous place in sol

[wheat latch]

Can a dog get a ghost?

[tawdry mauve]

no

[trim grotto]

Probably not

[wheat latch]

Shame

[tawdry mauve]

i think a dolphin could

[wheat latch]

Lol

Can our ghost extend its power to our own dog

[trim grotto]

Alas, no

[wheat latch]

Why do I even play this game if I can't have an immortal dog

[trim grotto]

Well there is Archie

A robot dog you can pat

[wheat latch]

Me and Archie are gonna be best buds then, isn't he the one near drifter and ada

[trim grotto]

Correct

[wheat latch]

Exo dog or completely separate?

[trim grotto]

We thought it may be Exo, but turns out, just robot

[wheat latch]

Sadge

Why don't we just use nukes or large bombs

Completely random sorry but I'm curious

Why do a strike when you can just nuke the boss

[trim grotto]

Golden Age nukes were either used in the Collapse or uh
Detonated by idiots during the Dark Ages

The City does not have nukes

[wheat latch]

Dang, what about the means to make them?

[trim grotto]

Well I can't say for sure, but they're probably not fond of the idea. Can't reclaim nuked land, and many of our enemies can probably withstand radiation. Even Fallen can, to a degree.

Also it's not healthy for Guardians

[tawdry mauve]

the city can just get every guardian to nova bomb whatever they want at once

im sure that would have similliar results

[wheat latch]

Now there's an idea

[tawdry mauve]

how many guardians are there

like a few hundred thousand

get them all

to nova bomb

something at the same time

hilarity ensues

[trim grotto]

More like a few million actually

[wheat latch]

Kinda seems to me that guardians are limited to a degree based off in-game dialogue

Nothing specific, just the vibe all dialogue surrounding guardians gave me

[slim perch]

huh?

[trim grotto]

Dag nabbit I'm gonna have to source this on mobile while laying in bed now

Gimme a tic

[wheat latch]

Lol, no worries

[fiery copper]

Nukes make land uninhabitable for decades to centuries. And using them in orbit is an even worse idea.

[trim grotto]

IKO-006 ranks in the upper fraction of the 99th percentile of assessed Warlocks on most available metrics of precision, restraint, and raw power. She is, in simplistic terms, a fifth sigma Guardian: 1 in 3.5 million. Given that millions of Guardians have been activated over the centuries since the Collapse, and assuming that performance of Guardians on these metrics is normally distributed, we would expect about ten Guardians of similar power to have existed.
Complaints that her talents are overblown or inflated in order to reinforce her authority, or that she benefits from the special favor of a higher power, are sorely mistaken and ignorant of basic statistics. (These complaints come from the same people who ask why we haven't reconquered the whole solar system with our vast strength, forgetting how many Guardians are either in abeyance after exhaustion, still working on mastering their first subclass, or already committed to the protection of populations and resources here on Earth.)

Get lore'd

[fiery copper]

The Kell's Scourge use nukes in Scourge of the Past

And nuclear cores are a core (heheheh) mechanic of dsc

[wheat latch]

#lore'd

[fiery copper]

If she's 1 in 3.5 million, and there have probably been 10 guardians of similar power to ever exist, does that mean there's 35 million guardians? Idk how statistics work

[trim grotto]

35 million total ever, not active

[fiery copper]

Yeah

[trim grotto]

But yes, in theory

[fiery copper]

Meant "....there's BEEN 35 million guardians?"

Lost a word somewhere along the way

In translation from head to thumbs

[wheat latch]

Why haven't we reconquered the whole solar system with our vast strength?

[trim grotto]

[wheat latch]

Lmao

"abeyance" as in suspended or just retired

[trim grotto]

Just chilling

Even Guardians need down time
Or should use down time, anyway

Talking to you, Zavala

Man doesn't even sleep most nights

[wheat latch]

At least the helmet comes off

[trim grotto]

I don't think I've ever seen him with a helmet on outside of D1 concept art

[wheat latch]

What abt ikora

[trim grotto]

Well, no
But she was a Crucible champion so I bet she used one then, haha

[wheat latch]

Fair nuff

[fiery copper]

Ah yes, the vast strength of an army barely bigger than the entire armed forces of our earth combined

[chrome fog]

So very thankful for that last bit, haven’t actually seen any opinions like that in a while but I gotta assume someday someone’s gonna ask “Why don’t we conquer the Sol System?”

[fallow sky]

The distributary is a sub-universe inside the ”real” universe so if the final shape is achieved it wouldn’t be spared right?

[chrome fog]

I would say yes, as if the Final Shape were to be enacted by the Witness it could possibly affect Real Space as well as the Ascendent Realm - of which most of these other realms reside within/depend upon

[fallow sky]

Oh crap, i gotta read into the ascendant realm more

[smoky rose]

To be fair all of them are immortal godslayers

BUT

A lot of those died

[empty fern]

Tbh

A lot of guardians are refugee level, (based on some dead light bearer models)

[chrome fog]

It’s pretty heavy to get into, though I believe some of the regulars know more about it (I am not smart on Ascendent Planes but it’s basically a magic spirit world, think the Warp from 40k but not)

[fallow sky]

Also how old are the awoken? it says the distributary is 12.1 billion years old but it also says mara planned for only hundreds of years

[empty fern]

Probably indeed 12

She planned other things before planning that

[fallow sky]

Kinda hard to believe mara is that old

[empty fern]

It would kinda explain her uhhhh, personality

Or mental state

[fallow sky]

Awoken still die of natural causes, kind of a miracle that mara never tripped and fell on her neck badly in 12.1 billion years

[chrome fog]

This is mainly due to the dilation of time in the distributary as well as Mara reforming (in a literal sense) all of the passengers on the Exodus Green save for I think a handful

[slim elk]

Awoken basically existed in their own pocket universe until Mara took her group out of the Distributary

[empty fern]

Awoken lore, I know nothing

[chrome fog]

Mara gave shape to the Distributary in the first place, it’s also why they’re all shades of pale blue

She was the first to emerge and then brought everyone else back

[slim elk]

Yeah
Explains a bit of her ego complex

[ocean oriole]

Why does xivu arath seem to only scream

[empty fern]

Because

Angry

[chrome fog]

It explains why it’s more than an “ego complex”

She was responsible for bringing back an entire population of humans from an amorphous pocket dimension as well as raising a civilization back so they can make the trip back to Earth

As well as assisting the Traveler’s defense efforts to protect humanity

She’s full of herself, but that’s mainly because she’s put a ton of responsibility on her shoulders

[chrome fog]

Impose Sword Logic in all aspects; prove her voice is stronger than any other

[vocal imp]

I have come to ask stupid questions once again

Is there anything that hints towards our guardian’s past? Before he was resurrected by the ghost

[ember storm]

your corpse is located on a highway in old russia

also, if you’re an exo, you’d have to have been alive from golden age > onwards

same goes with an awoken and collapse > onwards

otherwise, nothing

[tawdry mauve]

we were in russia when we died

[ember storm]

that part isn’t confirmed

[tawdry mauve]

yeah

we dont even know that much

[ember storm]

you can just move a corpse somewhere else

[tawdry mauve]

yep lol

but i guess its a fair guess

compared to the very limited info we have

[vocal imp]

Fuuu

I was really curious but bungie didn’t give any info ;-;

[tawdry mauve]

for a good a reason

[chrome fog]

Power Fantasy: this character is however you want

[tawdry mauve]

well yeah

the young wolf can be anything and anyone

its all player driven

except for when talk and speak out of the game in the lore tabs

[ember storm]

the only thing that a blank player character like the guardian can’t appeal to is those edgy people who want to murder every other main character and be evil or something

[tawdry mauve]

like when we gave randy the gjallarhorn

or got drunk with crow

[ember storm]

headcanon is that the gjally we gave randy was the nerf one stuffed with c4

[tawdry mauve]

randy really needed that win

i hope it was the real deal

[ember storm]

if you really wanna help a new light you have to give them a crash course in what the destiny community is like

[tawdry mauve]

also funny way to explain why we didnt have it in d2 💀

yeah yeah the armory was destroyed

[ember storm]

I really prefer the idea that there’s just two entirely unrelated characters named Randy for zero apparent reason

it’s funny

[tawdry mauve]

no

i mean

its the same randy

even if it had c4

he would have lived

he is a guardian :p

[ember storm]

yeah

that

[tawdry mauve]

when i said i hope it was the real deal i was talking about the ghorn

[ember storm]

that was the thing I said

the situation is the same

[tawdry mauve]

2 different Randals?

3

[ember storm]

fake plastic gjally or not I just think the idea of two Randy’s is funny

[tawdry mauve]

actually

one is Randal and the other is Randolph

[ember storm]

like everybody in destiny has these really specific cultural names that when a modern name like Jeff comes around everybody thinks it’s the only one in existence

when there’s like 5 people named jeff

[tawdry mauve]

Ana

Elizabeth

but their granpds is "Clovis"

i aint ever heard that name in my life

lol

[ember storm]

Clovis does solely refer to her as Anastasia

don’t even get me started on Wilhelmina

[jolly wind]

so savathuns ghost ran away and coming back for next season im guessing

[wheat flower]

Yup

The Witch Queen shall rizz again

[vocal imp]

You know that honestly makes it boring

When is the last time you saw our guardian talk

[chrome fog]

Lightfall

[vocal imp]

Doesn’t make you feel like the character is how you want, you just go kill stuff and boom

[chrome fog]

They’ve spoken once at least each expansion since Forsaken, I think

[vocal imp]

I wish our guardian was more fun ;-;

[chrome fog]

That’s what fanart and fanfiction’s for

As unfortunate as it is

[vocal imp]

Fan fictions

Petition to make it so that the guardian actually talks more

[chrome fog]

Hey all our theories are essentially well supported fanfic for the overall narrative; not every single one of them is going to be like the infamous fanfics that are super fucked

[vocal imp]

Lmao ok

[chrome fog]

Like, here a practice:
What do you imagine the backstory of your Guardian, in between seasonal content and expansion stories

[vocal imp]

Isn’t our guardian just the “overly silent stronk guy who only kills shit”

[chrome fog]

Somewhat, yes; Thin Line hand canon from Forsaken points to such but that can be purely from a rage induced silence from Cayde’s murder

[vocal imp]

I totally know the story of the guardian but like, it can be reallly boring if the guardian pretty much never does interactions

Just you sitting in the corner while the vanguard are talking

Your ghost talks for you

You just kill stuff

[chrome fog]

it’s up to the player to fill in those gaps, but the gaps have to exist for each and every player to put in the specific fantasy of what the Young Wolf did

[vocal imp]

Am I the only person who thinks this sucks ;-;

[chrome fog]

Like say, it’s up to you if you’re a crucible junkie or a gambit kinda pal

[vocal imp]

Yeah maybe I can make some fantasy stuff if what the young wolf did but it would still be nice to see the guardian take part in conversations in stuff

[chrome fog]

It’s just a skill issue ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vocal imp]

Other than the young wolf chilling in the corner and only the ghost talking for him like I said

Honestly makes the character more boring

[chrome fog]

We would probably see less voiced scenes or scenes with less characters speaking

[ember storm]

the only time the guardian is really "standing around" is in seasonal story (where ghost is also silent) and during gameplay, which wouldn't really flow well regardless

honestly i'd say it's perfectly in-character to be completely mute when focusing on action, and only chiming in during big scenes where it actually makes sense

[chrome fog]

Plus adding voice lines during roaming might not fit to what the Player is thinking; and then even if you have the Guardian speaking, players will want different options to better fit with what they believe their Guardian to sound like, so that’s about several more voice actors for more lines than usual

[ember storm]

the good thing about ghost speaking for us during gameplay is he gets to be the hand-holdy "oh boy this [antagonist] sure is evil! i'm glad we're the good guys" or "we'd better get this door open"

if anything i think it'd be worse for the guardian to say those

[pearl storm]

So I had a bit of a thought about the Witness's motivations

We know that when the light is accessed irresponsibly or without limit, it can lead to huge amounts of physical destruction

So by that logic, a similar way of approaching the darkness would lead to an equal amount of mental destruction

The Witness's people collectively drove themselves to madness by not respecting the darkness

Which would mean that the Witness's rage isn't just from the traveller leaving, it's because of its total delusion. It could also mean that Unveiling isn't just propaganda, but it actually believes it too

[ember storm]

that's my thought

i mean, what better propaganda than one made by someone who fully believes it?

[pearl storm]

Exactly yeah

Plus we've seen Maya Sundaresh start to go mad because of it. She's also approaching it like a tool to use

[ember storm]

nobody's wearing enough spinfoil hats to see through it

sad really

[fallow sky]

I feel like the writers of destiny lore really overestimate what the human mind can handle, like how do you function after living for 12.1 billion years???

[chrome fog]

Interesting. I also have a theory of the Witness species’ accessing the Darkness for the first time allowed their desire for a “Winnower” to infect the Veil and explains why it’s doing what it’s doing to Maya

Or rather what it was doing

[ember storm]

it's way shorter than that

and it has been directly addressed

[chrome fog]

Did you know: the human life span tripled after the Golden Age, and the Awoken are more long-lived than then

[fallow sky]

Im aware

[ember storm]

Zavala specifically has reflected numerous times on the mental toll of being effectively ageless while in constant combat

[fallow sky]

It has? where?

[pearl storm]

I kinda also think the stuff like the garden was taken from stuff they actually saw. Like when they found the veil, they accessed a lot of information that their minds couldn't handle

Imo at least

[fallow sky]

What do you mean by ”its way shorter than that”

[ember storm]

at the very most it'd have only been maybe 1000 years or so since guardians were a thing

and yes as previously stated, all humans are accustomed to lifespans of 300 years

[fallow sky]

I meant mara sov

[chrome fog]

Initially I was thinking that it was Maya's ego and realization that Clovis wasn't crazy about a Clarity that led her to calling the Veil "Salvation"

[ember storm]

i mean, what exactly is your question?

the mind only really deteriorates due to outside conditions

[pearl storm]

Mara has been alive for billions of years iirc

At least from her perspective

[ember storm]

it's moreso the pressing matter of death getting closer and closer that makes "being old" mentally tolling

if your life is just really long without any consenquence then like

you're just gonna be fine

[pearl storm]

I think a big part of the toll is the pressure of being a guardian for so much time

You're always fighting fit, and the one people look up to

[ember storm]

the only problem i can see with being alive for so long is that you might start to view other life as insignifigant, which is sort of the reason for the civil wars in the distributary

[pearl storm]

You've never had a childhood either, all you've known is fighting in a lot of cases

[ember storm]

there's a very big chunk of awoken who didn't give a rats ass about anyone else and just stayed in the perpetual safety of the distributary

[pearl storm]

I wonder if the distributary is like a mini pocket version/ shadow of the final shape place

Both seem to be breaches in reality where time basically stops working in a way we understand

Also both are formed from light+ dark

[fallow sky]

Still feels weird that mara is 12.1 billion years old, not sure why

[chrome fog]

They are space elves, if that helps

[outer dragon]

So is Osiris aging "normally" now?

[smoky rose]

I don't think we know

I'd say probably not, given Eris and Shin Malphur, but we don't know how long ago Shin was born afaik and Eris has some hive magic

[novel flume]

it would stand to reason that he's aging normally now

all his hair is turning gray

heck he might be aging really, really fast

[smoky rose]

It already was

[novel flume]

as for eris...

[smoky rose]

Osiris was an old man when he was rezzed

[novel flume]

she's not really fully human anymore

I mean she breathes on the moon without a ghost or some sort of atmosphere to keep oxygen near her

[novel flume]

I never noticed his hair being gray

[smoky rose]

(osiris in curse of osiris)

[novel flume]

oh god he OLD old

[slim perch]

put the damn hood on god damnit

its so weird seeing him unmasked

[chrome fog]

Keep yo baldness out, Osiris, don’t listen to the haters

[wheat flower]

You wrong for that😭

Eris is part hive now no?

[slim perch]

i dont think so?

i think the three eyes were cause of something else but i cant recall

[chrome fog]

She just heavily studied Hive Magic, not to mention her eyes are from an acolyte after the Ahamkara shard (the green ball she always has) showed her the way out of the Hellmouth in exchange for her eyes, to which she stole an Acolyte’s and took out part of her frontal lobe to make room for the third eye

Not necessarily part hive but those eyes are

[empty fern]

Very creepy

[safe galleon]

so like, did she do anything about the frontal lobe thing, or did she just kinda leave it like that

[chrome fog]

Left it like that

[empty fern]

Bandaid

[safe galleon]

i'm surprised frankly

she seems like

relatively fine

all things considered 😭

[chrome fog]

What being a former Lightbearer does apparently

And Hive shit

[empty fern]

Forever wearing her lucky rasberry

[bold star]

fym "we cant win" im him 🤨

id fuck up crota any day solo

[empty fern]

Where sword

You gotta have dat sword

Although maybe

Honestly a boss rush area would be nice, would be the ultimate bullet sponges

[bold star]

dares

nvm thats nt boss rush

[empty fern]

Closest we have sadly

Atleast they bright back memorable bosses

[green cobalt]

[empty fern]

(God imagine oryx in a dares)

[chrome fog]

It's a Nightmare of him, at this point in the story you don't have the necessary implements to properly combat Nightmares

Also none of his swordbearers were there

So Rip

[bold star]

i know ive done the campaign

its just funny

[empty fern]

Also funny that a simple cabal guy was so popular he was a dares boss

And our first gatelord was added too

Imagine if shield brothers was in there

Ooo

Xol in dares

[outer dragon]

Dare should get a refresh woth the D2 anniversary

Would make lore sense due to the Horse being bored

[empty fern]

Horse being bored is a perfect opportunity for bungie to reuse a few assets (and well like it)

WAIT

shield brothers but on the pyramid

[chrome fog]

D2 Anniversary has Evil Starhorse sounding explicitly more evil (via his subtitles) but just adds more encounters to Dares

That’d be funny

And to coincide with Marathon release they put in a Marathon gun

[empty fern]

They’d have to remodel the second part (final path selection) for more paths

[bold star]

ITS FINALLY OVER

shadowkeep worst campaign

[empty fern]

Cmon it’s like 5 quest patrols and a few missions

[bold star]

thats why i hate it

[empty fern]

lol

[south temple]

At least it’s not Osiris

[chrome fog]

At least it’s not Forsaken, which is basically 7 empire hunts

(I didn’t mind but also it was kind of tedious)

[empty fern]

The empire hunts were unique for each of them, loved it

And you could replay them in the weekly spider thing

[deep pagoda]

If the witnesses goal was to make the portal why didn’t he during the collapse… and just assume it was destroyed if that wasn’t his goal???

Why did he want eramis to blow it up with the war stats if he wanted to make the portal…

So confused

[ember storm]

the Witness just needed the Traveler alone up outside of Earth’s orbit to make things easier

[dim minnow]

1. The Witness needed the Veil to make the portal, however, Savathun stole it which was one of the things that allowed the Traveler to push it back
2. Eramis wanted to blow it up because she blames it for all of her problems. Maybe the Witness knew Eramis' plan would fail while taking out Rasputin

[ember storm]

arming the warsats and aiming them directly to the traveler (which was in the middle of the last city) spurred it to move to a more defensive position where we wouldn’t get hit in the crossfire

[deep pagoda]

Ah, and guessing the warstat thing was also to get us attacked by Xivu?

[dim minnow]

basically, we were stuck in a spot where using the Warsats screws us over while not using them would still screw us over

the best outcome is if the Warsats are no longer able to be used by anyone

[deep pagoda]

Ah

[dim minnow]

which just so happens to be the outcome that has us lose Rasputin

[deep pagoda]

Another question, if darkness is physical and light is the paracausal and not so real, (if that’s even right) void makes sense as it’s nothing, but how does solar and arc correlate ??

[ember storm]

both are paracausal

[dim minnow]

Light is physical

Darkness is metaphysical/concious

[deep pagoda]

Oh?

[dim minnow]

you got them mixed up

[deep pagoda]

Mb

[ember storm]

the Light abilities we use are more based around physical things

like energy and gravity and whatever

[dim minnow]

which is Void, Solar, and Arc

[ember storm]

darkness abilities are more based in the mental aspect

[dim minnow]

Strand and Stasis are more based on things like conciousness and emotions respectively

Deepsight is based on Memory

[ember storm]

pure light and darkness are basically just primordial forces you can’t really categorize

[deep pagoda]

If we can harness solar and arc as light powers why do the cabal and fallen have “solar” and “arc” items?

[ember storm]

we’re manifesting our light into powers we’re already familiar with

arc solar and void just exist within the universe

[deep pagoda]

Is void just like some kind of space matter then?

[dim minnow]

the weapons our enemies use utilize technology that allows them to harness arc, solar, and void

we just generate that energy through paracusality

[deep pagoda]

Ah

[smoky rose]

Think about it like we can force atoms together in a fusion reactor to generate power, basically making a small star. A Guardian can just spawn a small star

[chrome fog]

*They, since they are an entire civilization coalesced into a singular being

[ebon wharf]

Any suggestions on any pieces of lore that's just a good read?

[trim grotto]

Ghost Stories. It's a bunch of individual stories, but they're fascinating.

[ebon wharf]

And what generally are those about?

[chrome fog]

It's somewhat in the name, mainly interviews and annecdotes by Ghosts

It ranges from funny, informative, and heartbreaking as well

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-ghost-stories
A collection of stories told by Ghosts — some who have found their Guardian, and some who have not.

[snow yarrow]

What is lore

[peak coral]

background story

well uh

from background to ingame

[snow yarrow]

Oh alr

[trim grotto]

Not just background, but yeah. It's... the worldbuilding, story, so much more.

[fresh zephyr]

Where in the in game lore would I find stuff about cayde-6

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/cayde-6

Try this on for size

[fresh zephyr]

Thx

[trim grotto]

But if you want a specific book, I recommend this

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/book-the-man-they-call-cayde

[fresh zephyr]

Perfect thanks

[sick yew]

Thats a funny way of spelling Most Loyal

Jokes aside @fresh zephyr Most Loyal actually includes Cayde too in a handful of chapters

[trim grotto]

That is true, though it's more of a tale of Fikrul and Variks.

[sick yew]

True

still best lorebook

[fresh zephyr]

I only know a little lore and want to learn a lot more starting with my favorite character

[trim grotto]

He definitely has some interesting lore, even though he's not as old (relatively) to the other Vanguard.

[fresh zephyr]

Ok

[tawdry mauve]

too bad they failed at actually depicting him as an interesting character in the game :p

his lore is really cool though

[fresh zephyr]

Do you guys have any idea on what The veil truly is? Like the game only show us what it does and how it works but they never really tell what it truly is, did I miss any detail?

[tawdry mauve]

if youre fresh from the campaign no you didnt miss anything

we learned most from stuff after the campaign

[fresh zephyr]

I got up to the end of Season of the deep, watched evaze and byf on the veil

[trim grotto]

It's... like a part of the Traveler, but of Darkness. Split apart, a distant... half...
...sister... hmm.

Anyway, it's still unclear. But we're working on it.

[fresh zephyr]

if that's as far as we know about the veil then

I mean, I guess that's acceptable answer to my question yea

hopefully there'll be more about it later

[safe galleon]

how strong is shaxx?

[trim grotto]

He's quite capable. Feared by many Warlords back in the day, rarely bested in Crucible both new and old.

Tore Felwinter apart a few times

Literally backhanded Felwinter's head off

[safe galleon]

i see i see

speaking of felwinter

was he just like, a lunatic or something

given the whole 'welding a half-dead ghost into the helmet' ordeal

[trim grotto]

He's operating under a slightly different moral compass

Felwinter was an AI created by Rasputin

[chrome fog]

Or originally was before getting Risen

[trim grotto]

Well he still was made by Rasputin

[chrome fog]

Which tracks as Guardians seem to take after how they were in their first life

[echo fjord]

why does xivu call us "warriors of the sky"

[chrome fog]

Opposed to the Deep - another name for the Darkness before we knew the Witness was spreading its will through it - we are of "The Sky" aka the Light, and are the chosen warriors of the Traveler

[tawdry mauve]

xivu defo has a mad crush on us

😳

[stark ice]

So once Savathune come back we would have made friends with all the enemy races, accept the vex will there be a possibility to make friends with something we can’t even communicate with?

[blazing wasp]

We won't automatically become friends with savathun

It'll very likely be an enemy of my enemy situation

Especially when you consider why our other allies are allies in the first place

Vex is also extremely unlikely as I don't think they can be reasoned with

Like i literally don't think it's possible for them to be diplomatic with us

[vocal imp]

What are the other races that we haven’t seen in game in the destiny 2 universe?

Surely there’s more than cabal, fallen, vex and those other factions

[ember storm]

aphelions

there's a bunch of civilizations that the hive killed

[tawdry mauve]

"bunch" 💀

[vocal imp]

Aaaaa what are aphelions

[smoky rose]

Given the last page of the lore book yeah

Xivu wants Savathun's head on a pike

[ember storm]

lovecraftian horrors

here's an excerpt from an encounter with one

T-3-B: THEY'RE SCREAMING! LISTEN, THEY'RE ALL SCREAMING!
T-3-A: BE CALM! HELP ME! WHAT'S THE CHANNEL?
T-3-B: IT'S THE CORE, IT'S THE CORE, THIS IS THE STALKING CORE!
T-3-A: SHUT UP! WHAT'S THE CHANNEL!
T-3-B: OH NO, OH PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE [STATIC FOLLOWS]

T-4: ORIN, IT'S ME, IT'S NAMQI. I DON'T THINK I'M COMING HOME, BABY. I'M SO SORRY. I'M, I'M, I JUST WANT TO TELL YOU THAT I LOVE [STATIC FOLLOWS]

T-5: MAYDAY, MAYDAY! THIS IS VEN ASAR ON THE RSS AMESTRIS. WE ARE 300 SOULS ABOARD. SOMETHING IS HAPPENING, EVERYTHING IS BLUE, SOMETHING IS HERE [STATIC FOLLOWS]

T-6: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] [SCREAMING] [STATIC FOLLOWS]```

AMESTRIS ABANDONED, SET ADRIFT BEYOND REEF.```

[desert tree]

Question: why do guardians get revived without the memories of their past life? Is it intentional or just a side effect from the process?

[ember storm]

the reasoning is to make every Risen a blank slate

in a nutshell, the light and darkness are in an argument over what people will do with godlike power

it's essentially removing the "nurture" part of the nature/nurture debate to see what people are like in their core

of course this goes both ways

some people (guardians) feel obligated to use their powers to help others, while some don't care about it at all

it's why so many people decided to just be selfish and use their light for whatever they wanted in the dark age

[royal portal]

rezyl is my beloved🫰

also retcon black heart

[smoky rose]

Wdym

It actually makes a lot of sense the way they explained it as a copy of the veil

Explains how it was able to power timeline-editing in the VoG

[ember storm]

noun
(in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.```

so

no

[smoky rose]

did we talk about this yet

[chrome fog]

Arkborn

[chrome fog]

Not here, no, though this has always been kept in mind whenever we talk about Unveiling. Only under recent information does any claim of Unveiling being propaganda properly fit, but prior to Lightfall and it’s seasons, we had no other contrasting information on the Traveler, the Winnower, and the Witness, meaning we couldn’t debate on the validity of the book

[smoky rose]

I do think this erases any doubt on who wrote unveiling

who we got it from

[chrome fog]

Well we could, since there are some lore books and entries that are purposefully full of lies, but Unveiling has lore tabs from other sources which provide evidence for what it states to be true - just look at the MK Stand Asides and how they provide further confirmation of the Traveler=the Gardener

Essentially, the main issue is we had no other claims to contest what truly happened at the beginning of the Destiny universe, so any debate on Unveiling wouldn’t really have an alternative to those events

[stark ice]

Yeah they function more like a force of nature, it’s like trying to convince water not to drown us when we go inXD

[chrome fog]

We could try and forcibly convince them that it is the better option to cooperate

But that’s if they can even forego their main objective of complete assimilation

[slim elk]

The question is how long will they cooperate before turning on us

Whatever the Witness pulls.. Vex will want to grab

[empty fern]

I feel like the vex on neomuna (probably coming for the veil) was kinda cut short for a whole dlc, hopefully they continue that development in the future

[chrome fog]

Avalon and Unfinished Business did a good job somewhat elaborating on them, what with their survey into the database of Neomuna’s past Cloudstriders and even Rohan’s research

Speaking of which, I want them to do with Rohan like they have with Cayde except more: elaborate upon his character for the little time we spent through post-humous logs

[safe galleon]

there's a little mini-theory that's floated around since lightfall came out that the reason the traveler brings us back with no memories is because it can't access those

since the light is the domain of the physical, as opposed to the darkness, which derives power from consciousness

or sorry, the reason the ghosts bring us back with no memory

however, i guess nezarec remembering his old life just fine kinda disputes that. he's not a guardian, but he was remade in the light. but he also has his own weird psychic powers that allow his consciousness to persist after death, which might explain why he's completely capable of remembering everything despite the traveler being the thing to remake his body

[analog torrent]

How many Iron Lords were there? I don't remember where I read this but I read the Iron Lords that went to the SIVA bunker were killed and all but two (Efrideet and Saladin) of the other Iron Lords were killed by Rasputin outside of the bunker.

got the impression that there were hundreds, most unnamed

[jolly wind]

so the iron lords were the OG vanguard?

[quartz ledge]

so, did oryx really care for crota

for anything other than like

thithe

[peak coral]

kind of

in the sense of "protect lightless"

[dim minnow]

Iron Lords were mainly meant to stop the Feudal infighting between Lightbearers

though they did put a large emphasis on keeping Lightless safe from their war

two notable tenants of the Iron Decree include:
not killing the Ghost
not having Lightless involved in fighting other lightbearers

[peak coral]

yah

[chrome fog]

As for those that died, a majority of them were killed in the approach to the bunker, either by warsat or combat frames or any number of Rasputin’s defenses. And then once the smaller group got in, R unleaded SIVA on them and corrupted them

[slim elk]

Only known survivors of Iron Lord's are Efrideet and Saladin at present

Technically Player Guardian was inducted as one as the "Young Wolf".. but the order is for all intents and purposes dead with Saladin mimicking it with Iron Beasts

Efrideet... it's better to consider her dead as otherwise she's hiding in a "pacifist colony" while the universe is coming to an end

(Not exactly the best look considering everything going on presently)

[empty fern]

Efrideet in hiding then visiting once in a d1 cutscene then never to be seen again

[slim elk]

Was mentioned in lore she showed up in Red War to help reclaim the city

[empty fern]

Oooo

Neat

[trim grotto]

She killed 216 Cabal with 199 bullets

[slim elk]

Why she's absolutely refusing to help with the Traveler having a giant portal carved into it nor any reaction to the news of Saladin joining the cabal....

Yeah.. better to consider her dead

[empty fern]

(Old legend of acrius catalyst quest be like)

[trim grotto]

We haven't heard from her since.

[slim elk]

Suicidal Pacifist be other explanation for Efrideet absence

[trim grotto]

Or she's just hiding and protecting her people

[slim elk]

Protecting people
Pacifist

Error

(Especially when the Witness showed and no signs of her.. it wins.. everyone else loses)

[trim grotto]

There are other ways to protect people Freak

Besides, pacifism generally means you don't go out seeking a fight
Protecting is different

[empty fern]

Like misraask during splicer?

[slim elk]

The issue isn't that.
It's simply the matter of stakes here. Refusing to go on the eventual offensive against the Witness means it wins by default

We have to take the fight to it, or as you put it "seeking a fight"

[empty fern]

Or bungie forgot about her, like the cook books

[slim elk]

Yep. Why best to consider her dead heh

I headcanon her colony got decimated entirely when Pyramids first showed in Sol. Maybe Xivus first use of Wrathborn in Sol

Is certainly a lost opportunity to hear Efrideet reaction to Saladin making the Iron War Beasts

[trim grotto]

Unless she doesn't know that because she's been off the grid, or pulling a Dead Orbit.

[slim elk]

Hard to miss the giant Pyramid fleet invading the system lol

Still proves the point. Hiding or running can not save anyone now

[trim grotto]

It does not, because she may not realise the ultimate implications, and/or would prefer to hide

[real ingot]

It wasn’t until recent times where we learnt of what the Witness wants and what will happen

Until then we’d be right in assuming we could hide from them

[ember storm]

I mean it’s the same thing neomuna did

the only reason they’re in danger is because they’re sitting directly on top of the veil, and also the witness got a very specific vision detailing where they’re hidden

[royal portal]

but the vex cant simulate paracausality so how did they make it? (or did I miss something)

[ember storm]

being unable to simulate paracausal power only matters because that means they need paracausal power right in front of them with easy access to do anything with it

and at the end of GoS it’s revealed there’s been a pyramid statue there the whole time

[royal portal]

so what made the heart

[ember storm]

the vex just built it based off of what they could gather from the veil

[royal portal]

that entails simulating it

doesnt it?

they created a darkness artifact

and they shouldnt be able to

[ember storm]

that’s why the black heart is just worse than the veil

they only had what they had to work with

[royal portal]

but still paracausal

[ember storm]

if they were able to simulate it they’d be able to make a near perfect replica

[ember storm]

because the paracausal power already existed

[royal portal]

and that leads to why do they worship what they can make

[ember storm]

they just harvested darkness and formed it into something else

[royal portal]

the whole point of worshipping was because they literally. couldnt come up with anything better

[ember storm]

it was never legitimate worship

the sol divisive just copied the data quria got from studying the hive

they were perfectly capable of just getting power from the black heart without kneeling or “praying” to it

they just saw that’s how the hive do it and thought that’s how it’s supposed to work

[royal portal]

so they ”didnt” ”really” worship something we thought they couldnt make

that leads to why again

they can manipulate it freely so why worshipping

it just doesnt work man

[ember storm]

that’s like literally the entire point of the vex

despite the near infinite knowledge they have access to there’s things they just literally don’t understand

from their calculations, they deduced that worship = power from darkness, so that’s what they did

it’s not really anything deeper than that

[royal portal]

but they already FREELY formed the black heart

so worshipping is an extra step they dont need

[ember storm]

that’s the point

they didn’t need to

but they did

because they didn’t fully understand

[royal portal]

thats just ass writing then

way less cooler than just robots deducing worshipping is the only option for something they cant do

[ember storm]

it’s literally always been this way

the sol divisive are the only vex who believe this

every other vex in existence fully understands the process is stupid and a waste of time

they actively fight against each other

[royal portal]

actively is a big word

more like avoid

[smoky rose]

But they didn’t

The witness literally dropped it off

Brass Gardeners entry in inspiral

[final stream]

what's the spider up to

[slim perch]

uldren in helm sometimes speaks of him

apparently he's just basically the president of eliksni quarter

while mithrax does vanguard related things

[pearl storm]

The Witness probably spoke through/ took over the black heart or some shit

Which is when they started worshipping

Or the back heart was essentially a god they made for themselves

Or some sort of way for them to worship the Witness, like an altar or an idol

[chrome fog]

The Black Heart was formed with a bit by the Witness and their own research; they're not simulating paracausality, simply the means that one accesses it. To explain it better, they simulate an Acolyte or some other entity worshiping the Black Heart to gain paracausality from it. This is what Quria attempted to do when they simulated Aurash in an attempt to simulate Oryx.

This is what we mean by they don't have to do the worshipping pose as the Black Heart should automatically attribute paracausal energy to their simulations, though it's most likely a way to ensure it does provide paracausal energy through recognition that they are performing the same act instead of simply simulating it

[wheat latch]

Why are ghosts so fragile

[trim grotto]

Everything is relative. They're made of metal and glass.

[wheat latch]

Yeah, just seems like we should protect ours more

[trim grotto]

You can give them an armoured shell.

[wheat latch]

Why can't we just lock them in a bulletproof case

[trim grotto]

Because... that's kind of horrible.

[wheat latch]

A clear bullet proof case

Lol

Is our ghost as fragile as lucent hive? Like could someone crush it in their hand

Not lucent, lightbearer

Actually I'm not sure, what's lucent hive

[jolly vector]

I mean they literally can just crush our

[trim grotto]

The brood

[jolly vector]

normally human with a rocket wouldn't gonna do much tho

they will need special ammo to kill a ghost in the first place

[wheat latch]

That's hive that follow savathun right

[jolly vector]

they can just not, since they dont have any memory just like us lul

they just follow her just like we follow the vanguard

[wheat latch]

What was Petra and caydes relationship?

[jolly vector]

think he just flirted with her some times that's it

[wheat latch]

I wasn't implying it had to be romantic, I mean in general

[jolly vector]

nothing else

just like us and her

and her with any other people

[chrome fog]

They go into a weird dimensional backpack when they aren’t out scanning

[jolly vector]

I guess they do have a mutual respect for each other

[chrome fog]

The same

[jolly vector]

maybe final shape can do something about that part

[chrome fog]

They’re still ghosts, just with a different shell

[wheat latch]

Which is cool 99% of the time but when they're not then they're completely exposed

[chrome fog]

Exactly

[wheat latch]

Seems careless of us

[jolly vector]

the ghost kinda deconstruct themself and goes into an encryption mode

its really just like you putting your phone inside a safe

and bringing the giant ass safe with you all the time

cayde having his ghost out is just a big stupid moment

[wheat latch]

But your phone would never break now would it

[jolly vector]

I guess that part would've been better writen

[chrome fog]

And what, put them in a remote location where they have to wait for us to decompose or disintegrate

[jolly vector]

like he get killed and the ghost hide until every enemy leaves but they are just hiding to kill the ghost

[wheat latch]

Well with all the tech we have seems plausible to have some sort of "forcefield" to protect them

[jolly vector]

well I mean its only until the lucent hive that they can kill us and ghost extremely easily

before then it was only some guardian with specials weapons that can do so

[chrome fog]

And will that last forever?

[wheat latch]

Idk lol

[chrome fog]

But you wouldn’t be able to access it

[wheat latch]

But like they should have something to prevent a 9mm from killing them lol

Like they're so fragile we could drop them and they'd die

[chrome fog]

Best you can do is keep them in orbit to drop down onto your corpse, and that is simply the same thing as the backpack space

[trim grotto]

They're made of metal

[wheat latch]

Well u haven't dropped your ghost have u, u don't know that they'd survive /s

So they just kinda need to be free to do their functions as a ghost is what I'm getting

[chrome fog]

Drifter’s went through a cabal’s head

[wheat latch]

Get rekt cabal

[chrome fog]

It killed an entire squad of cabal to protect him

They’re not exactly fragile

[wheat latch]

That's cool, is that a lore book I could read?

[chrome fog]

Man with No Name

;lore

Hm

[candid inlet]

D2 Lore Resources
• #📚lore-discussion
• PreviouslyOnDestiny - Catch up on the story of Destiny
• Ishtar Collective - Lore database
• Destinypedia - Lore database
• Destiny Lore Subreddit - Lore compendium
• MyNameIsByf - YouTube channel
• Infograph - Partial timeline at a glance
• Lore Book Guide - Spreadsheet of all lore books

[chrome fog]

Ah ok

Give me a minute

[wheat latch]

The lightbearer hive ghosts are made of different material now that I think of it, they're like glass right?

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/heaven-or-hell

[chrome fog]

Still just ghosts

[wheat latch]

Thanks

Glass ghosts, weak 😂

[chrome fog]

They’re. Metal.

[wheat latch]

Really?? Ik ours is

[chrome fog]

They’re the same

All ghosts are the same, the cosmetic shell is different

[wheat latch]

They look different

[chrome fog]

There’s only one round of Ghost creation so all of them are the same

[wheat latch]

Hm, do guardians just put that metal housing on our ghosts?

[chrome fog]

Even Glint used to look like our ghost when we were a New Light

He was gifted his current shell

Prior to meeting Crow

[wheat latch]

Who's glint

[chrome fog]

Crow’s ghost

[wheat latch]

Oh, what's unique about his ghost

[wheat latch]

Hmm, rectangle?

[torpid flint]

Tbh, the whole ghost can be destroyed by paracausal weapons is.. a bit misleading

[chrome fog]

We have shells that have the same eye slot

[torpid flint]

Considering Cabal and Fallen have been known to just crush them

[jolly vector]

I mean millions of guardians dies to lesser stuff tbh

the game itself just overhype them a lil bit

[chrome fog]

All ghosts look like this initially

[wheat latch]

Like tripping and breaking their ghost right

[chrome fog]

Paracausal weapons just kill them extra hard

[chrome fog]

They’re not made of pure glass

[torpid flint]

Only thing they really do is take the effort out of it

[torpid flint]

They’re made of PART GLASS

[wheat latch]

Checkmate lmao

[chrome fog]

[torpid flint]

But yes, they’re made of metal

[chrome fog]

Regardless, all ghosts are equally weak

/strong

[wheat latch]

Yeah, with great power comes great responsibility, like don't take out ur ghost when a sniper is aimed at you

Is there a way to kill a guardian without killing the ghost

[chrome fog]

The original Thorn, getting converted by Radiolaria, etc

[jolly vector]

dying in a darkness area and the ghost stumble trying to rev and died too

that's how most guardians would die

[devout nimbus]

Time travel to red war then kill a guardian

[pale quest]

How many stories in destiny pretty much go like
zavala: "Thing is happening, stay here with the traveler."
Ikora/cayde/guardian/dark vanguard: "No" goes and does the thing
zavala: "You shouldn't have done that but everything's ok now don't do that again."

[empty fern]

Stasis dlc prime example

[pale quest]

pretty sure forsaken was also this kind of thing

and warmind

[wheat latch]

What if I create a butterfly effect and I never become a guardian when I do that

[devout nimbus]

L I guess

[safe galleon]

They're a tiny agile target that can more or less phase in and out of the physical space as they please, and they're practically always defended by what is basically a demigod wielding cataclysmic elemental powers

The only time they're immobile is when rezzing, which either A. takes a few seconds or B. is usually being done under the watch of other Guardians with similar powers

Ghosts are also technically at full liberty to just like, wait for you to die, wait until whatever killed you loses interest and moves away from your corpse, and then go for the rezz when it's safe

[slim elk]

See Immaru at present

[safe galleon]

Yeah exactly

[pale quest]

immaru, completely unaware that humans are endurance hunters:

[safe galleon]

Point being, guardians losing their light isn't rare, but it does seem pretty decently preventable all things considered

[torpid flint]

Most times it’s cause of underestimating the current situation, or just being stupid

[slim elk]

Osrisis anyone?

[safe galleon]

Cayde is a prime example

He calls out his ghost in the middle of a bunch of Fallen iirc and that's what got it sniped

[slim elk]

Nah. Caydes dead
The crazed former warlock is still alive

[safe galleon]

Yes but he lost his Ghost before he died in what seems like

A completely preventable way

Literally calls out his ghost in the open, pretty much announces that it's out, while there are like 4 fallen and a sniper on high ground above him

And straight up looks away from the fight too 😭

[chrome fog]

They mention Sundance was equally as reckless

[slim elk]

Standard for Hunters really

See how many Vanguards they had do utterly stupid stuff

Playing cards with Ahamhkara anyone?

[empty fern]

Oh god

[safe galleon]

Me when I am the Hunter vanguard playing cards with an ahamkara and i mutter "damn, i wish i had a king right now" under my breath (the ahamkara is about to summon Oryx)

[slim elk]

Go for the Queen

Sudden Mara

[smoky rose]

@chrome fog they may not be made out of glass but a 500 pound paracausal titan will surely just crush them

[sour galleon]

is ahsa the same leviathan that helped out the three sisters or are they just related

[dim minnow]

separate species entirely I believe

hmmm

or maybe they were both proto-worm gods

they definitely weren't the same individual

[smoky rose]

The leviathan that tried to stop the 3 sisters was killed in a space battle with hive forces and the worm gods

[empty fern]

I’d love to see the aftermath of that

Would be like the reef but hive themed

Or is that just the dreadnaught fleet

[velvet flax]

Grimoire Volume 6 preorder on bungie store neat

Looks at the Ghost-Guardian relationship

[dim minnow]

oh?

got a link

hmm

so it seems to focus on Guardians in general, though I bet a lot of Ghosts will be involved

I'm thinking that Ghost Stories will be put in there

I'm just hoping that we will get some more actual exclusive entries

Volumes 4 and 5 were rather disappointing for me

[chrome fog]

Volume 6 is specifically looking at Ghosts, which might mean it's a collection that'll be similar to Ghost Stories

[dawn escarp]

Do we have a name for weapons that serve the same purpose as a weapon of sorrow, but aren't because they weren't human-made and then corrupted?

[dim minnow]

anyone else notice Resonance vs Terraformation here?

[chrome fog]

No

[empty fern]

The orange vs teal? Yea

You gonna cook something with it again?

[pale quest]

calus seems like the kinda guy who would buy a "The witness is #1" foam finger

[empty fern]

There’s probably art or comic of that

[tawdry mauve]

rhulk as well

[empty fern]

Rhulk would wear a sweater saying that

[fiery copper]

He reserves them seats at a movie and then asks them out

[empty fern]

Love the confidence

Then he has the same “I’m tired” sigh like in the desperate measures fight

When they refuse

[fresh zephyr]

Did atheon create the vault of glass or did the vault of glass create him

[empty fern]

Uhhhh, I think vault created him to manage itself

I think

[chrome fog]

A portion of the Sol Divisive's network dedicated itself to the administration of the Vault of Glass after they constructed it, I think is the best way to phrase it

[empty fern]

Ah

Wait

The darkness worshipping collective managed the vault?

Thought it was the hezen

[trim grotto]

Hezen managed it. Sol Divisive and the Black Heart are why it could delete you from reality.

That's why they never replicated it.

[safe galleon]

so like, why does the planets being misaligned in the planets encounter (and the elements being misaligned in the nez encounter) lead to destructive results, anyway? can't light and dark be harnessed together just fine by us, and by nez before we Smite Him??

and a secondary thing: who went this hard on a wipe animation this long and detailed

[tepid parcel]

Remember when there was a bunch of artist renditions of Savathun before the Witch Queen dlc and the Moth design was thought to be "less likely?"

I remember I asked about what Savathun looked like before this server got wiped and I remember there were two renditions for what Savathun could've looked like since mentioned dlc didn't come out yet

[trim grotto]

We don't really have explanations for how most raid mechanics actually work. It's all inference, working with context clues, or just straight up having no idea.

[tepid parcel]

A moth-like one and the other one which was more larvae-like but I forgor

[safe galleon]

yeah fair, but it's still a bit odd to me that light and dark can be harnessed together fine, but ALSO do anything from causing violent explosions to creating a Smiting Beam™️ when they're used in the encounters in RoN

[tepid parcel]

I swear I read somewhere that Light/Darkness are neutral forces or something

[trim grotto]

Natural forces of the universe, wielded and manipulated.

[fringe gull]

Vex are main problem after final shape