#📚lore-discussion

1 messages · Page 8 of 1

real ingot
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ntm the Witness is winning

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It doesn't need us anymore

slim perch
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most likely because he wasnt in contact with the witness and just resumed mission

hasty jetty
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I feel like the witness just has really bad adhd and just forgot ab us

slim perch
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not really

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it just doesnt care

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we obviously proved we are not able to handle it

real ingot
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I mean

hasty jetty
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Lol I was joking

real ingot
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it cared more about us than Calus

hasty jetty
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I don’t think he really cared to begin with

real ingot
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Chances are the Witness wanted us since it knew we were competent

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Calus was the backup

slim perch
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evidently we now know the witness is a self righteous hubris

hasty jetty
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I don’t see why the witness just packed up and left after the collapse

slim perch
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because it lost

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its unclear what happened but the traveler did something at that point in time in tandem with savathun betraying the witness and killing nezarec

real ingot
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It lost the Veil

slim perch
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and that

real ingot
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Nezarec's pyramid may as well have been destroyed

slim perch
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i thought the pyramid on the moon was nezarec's

real ingot
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Yeah it just assumed it lost

real ingot
hasty jetty
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Well he decided to turn around after it sensed the travalers light

sick yew
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As unimportant as Mercury may seem there is an interesting parallel between the IF and the Veil Traveler fusion
Both cases its a triangular portal at first completely inaccessible to us
Both lead to a new domain which can be freely controlled by a stronger being
Interesting thing to note imo

real ingot
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It was deactive for a long time

hasty jetty
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Why did that moment need to be when the traveler woke

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For him to come back

slim perch
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because the galaxy is beeg

real ingot
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Also the Witness itself didn't seem to be there when Nez died

slim perch
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and its hard to find things

real ingot
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it likely thought the traveler was weakened

sick yew
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The Witness thought the traveler was dead no?

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Because of Savathuns prank

real ingot
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and waited for the Divisive to be done

slim perch
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the traveler was also entirely silent

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it wasnt terraforming like it would in the golden age or during its time with the witness or eliksni + other races

sick yew
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the Witness simply didnt know about the Traveler where it was until the light wave reached the idle pyramids

hasty jetty
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Did the traveler need to be awake for the veil and traveler to link? Idk it seems to me like he found the veil easily enough he could’ve done it not long after the collapse if he chose

slim perch
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it was always awake

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it was just listening

real ingot
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to find the Veil it needed to be awake

slim perch
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instead of doing things

real ingot
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they communed

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that was how it found the Veil

sick yew
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the Witness had to be very close to the Traveler to realize where the Veil was remember?

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Also not to be that guy but the Witness is literally "they"

slim perch
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the witness also is most likely a master of the light

sick yew
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Not he

hasty jetty
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Yea I know I realized after I sent it

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Too lazy to edit

sick yew
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It never got blessed by the traveler like we did

real ingot
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It was never given the gift

sick yew
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They may have an understanding of the light but cant wield it like we do

slim perch
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it wasnt blessed but its people learned and analyzed the traveler for a very long time

sick yew
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So?

real ingot
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You can't

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take

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the

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light

sick yew
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Ghaul doesnt count btw

slim perch
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lol what was that

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bot?

hasty jetty
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Lmao I’m saying

slim perch
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and considering the darkness seems to have a tandem with the light, its entirely possible to have simply used the darkness with strong understanding the light to have made such a connection

sick yew
trim grotto
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Compare the Witness's civilisation to a more advanced Eliksni
They studied and lived under the Traveler for eons
No wielding of Light

hasty jetty
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But idk, it just seems weird to me the witness waited until the light passed over his fleet to come out of hibernation

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He had to know where sol was the entire time and just chose not to come back until that moment

slim perch
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it isnt really known what happened between savathuns betrayal and the travellers steel chair reckoning

trim grotto
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If it assumed it was dead, it may have also assumed it couldn't combine with the Veil any longer

slim perch
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a lot of things could have happened

trim grotto
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But yes, Korv is right

slim perch
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like i dont think its till recently did we get more insight on what happened from a personal perspective during the collapse with the new season

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such as the gotd weapons going over stories over titan and the collapse that was happening

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it was a range from

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escaping ships to neptune to, titan literally being gravitationally slinkied and rasputin having a mental breakdown

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and savathun, potentially even the lucent hive in general, betraying the witness and killing nezarec

hasty jetty
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Yea, hopefully savathun can give more insight next season

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Really there should be a lot of questions answered next season

slim perch
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its probably gonna be till season after next for when we get answers

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assuming the entirety of next season is the process of 'should we' and 'how do we' revive savathun ending with actually reviving

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then the season after going over what savathun has to say for herself

hasty jetty
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I kinda really hope not I’m ready for stuff to go down

slim perch
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what stuff is there to go down

hasty jetty
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Questions I’ve had for 9 years to be answered

ember storm
slim perch
ember storm
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I mean if we got something as major as the witness’ origin from a season that’s barely related to it

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we might be getting more heavy stuff this year

slim perch
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how is it barely related

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the entire point of this season was that cutscene

hasty jetty
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Every season should be some major reveal in the story at this point to make up for lightfall

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Imo

slim perch
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eh?

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now you're just asking for bungie to rush things

hasty jetty
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???

real ingot
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"I don't like this rushed thing so they should rush everything"

slim perch
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basically

hasty jetty
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Not at all what I’ve been saying

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When did I say I didn’t like

slim perch
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'to make up for'

hasty jetty
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Lightfall the opposite of rushed

real ingot
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Did you see the raid

hasty jetty
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They took an extra year and still flopped

real ingot
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How they had to cram so much shit into it

real ingot
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While they originally wanted to end it there

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The time they had didn't have enough

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and even then

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They had to cram shit into LF since they didn't have much else they could do

hasty jetty
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Doesn’t feel like they crammed much of anything into lf

slim perch
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strand

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technically

hasty jetty
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Shit was so dry and hollow

real ingot
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Strand
Veil
Nezarec
Savathun
Witness
Calus

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Osiris

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Ishtar

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Neptune

slim perch
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Destiny

real ingot
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A lot was rushed

slim perch
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also just naming things doesnt mean it was rushed

real ingot
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if I had to guess Nezarec and Calus were meant for separate things

hasty jetty
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That’s not rushed that’s just bad planning

slim perch
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why is it rushed the fact that neptune and osiris were a thing

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what WAS rushed was things like strand, the raid, and the overall war we had with the witness there

real ingot
slim perch
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strand would have to be delayed like

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another season or something

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beyond the year it was already delayed by

real ingot
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Strand makes sense now that we understand what it is

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But once again

slim perch
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yes but strand did have to get its story entirely rewritten

real ingot
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shit like Osiris' arc had to be rushed within the story

hasty jetty
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I think this isn’t ab being rushed it’s just bad planning

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They could’ve done much better with a couple tweaks of the timeline

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Story wise

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They didn’t really have to change gameplay at all everyone had a blast with that

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Just change up the cutscenes a little bit so we know what’s going on

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Probably the easiest part

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If they’re gonna try to pack 9 years worth of questions into a single expansion that’s definitely gonna be rushed, there should be some things explained in the next season or two that really should’ve been explained in lightfall

mild folio
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||I can't believe they bring
Savathûn||

chrome fog
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It’s been 4 days we know about going to Savathun for help

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And it’s not been outside the realm of possibility, she’s only had the one season and the expansion where she was present

rigid flower
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So....if we were to re-write Lightfall's story and mission structure...where would we put it?

chrome fog
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As a different thing altogether yall shut up about how Lightfall should’ve been done differently

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It’s already been released and everything, just take what you have and be happy with it

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Another fucking idiot

rigid flower
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That's me.

chrome fog
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No

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Not dealing with that

rigid flower
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For the record, obviously what did happen has happened, and there's no changing that. That being said, I'm still asking if someone were to write their own, again, mission structure and all, where to put it.

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I can walways wait for someone else to answer.

safe galleon
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i mean there's like an 80% chance in most circumstances she gets one over on us, but at this point, i feel like we kind of need a W

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and if she does end up getting one over on us, and betrays us or something, she doesn't like the witness, so where does she fit into the story after betraying us? just a third party? thonk

chrome fog
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Could get a peak at the Final Shape stuff and have a temporary patrol zone hodgepodge mix of past ones, which I theorize the FS destination will be like; then we navigate it under the pretense that we are combing her mind for information/reforming her mental stability after she learned of the Witness’ deception and then stayed locked up in her own corpse for a year and a half

safe galleon
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i suppose

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but like, im just wondering where she falls into the story after this

chrome fog
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Some talks here and in the Cryptarchy have been interested in exploring both her adherence to old values and a need to move onto better things for both her and her race

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Does she keep looking out for herself or for once does she allow herself help and assistance from others?

safe galleon
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if she stays with us as an ally/redeemed villain/neutral party or something, then i can kinda see her fitting in somewhere, but also, something tells me that she's not gonna be too pleased with us 😭

chrome fog
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I can see her going off to discover more to life than plans and schemes

safe galleon
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and then if she doesn't stay on our side, there's the new question of 'what the hell are they gonna do with her if she's not aligned with anyone'

chrome fog
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There’s a reason she and Mara have the connection that they do, as both overwork themselves with schemes and plans for the “good of their race” but ultimately find themselves overly dependent on their machinations to find true connection or even meaning

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Right before they split up for good, Savathun asked Oryx if there is possibly another way to live, something not tied to their dependency on the worms

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Now, as a new person as a Lightbearer, she can forge her own path, but that will still require her to break free from the mind space (figuratively, not the literal Throneworld) that her past life was stuck in

torpid flint
chrome fog
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Everything she did in Witch Queen is because of her old life

torpid flint
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Also the memories we allowed her to see

chrome fog
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Which itself was a plot by her past self

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To inform her of her intentions prior to the resurrection

safe galleon
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so like

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are the worms that the hive become hosts for, the same worms that the worm gods are?

trim grotto
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Actually, no. The Parasite Worms are pieces of Xita's flesh, cut off by Rhulk and given life through the Pyramid tech.

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Hence his title of Worm-Father

fresh zephyr
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How did oryx get control of the taken?

devout nimbus
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He killed a worm god called Akka and made the Tablets of Ruin from its flesh which he used to Take things

fresh zephyr
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There were multiple tablets like the one seen in golgoroth’s pit?

devout nimbus
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I mean Oryx wore the tablets around his waist

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Not sure about the Golgy one

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'Later when Oryx carved the Tablets of Ruin out of flesh from the fallen Akka, he sets one of them in Golgoroth as a rebuttal of Crota's demands to claim it, and from where the tablet was placed new flesh grew.'

chrome fog
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He then takes part of Akka’s carapace and turns it into the Dreadnaught

devout nimbus
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Ah I see

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Yeah I thought there was more to it

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Thanks

smoky rose
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We found another one in the temple to oryx on Savathun’s throne world

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I’m sure we’ve found more over the years but I can’t remember

chrome fog
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Have the Tablets been transcribed numerous times like the Bible or was it just the one time after Oryx killed Akka

ember storm
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the point of the tablets is that they were Oryx's prized possessions and held heavily guarded secrets, namely how to call upon the darkness to take

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so, no

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there were zero copies made

safe galleon
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is it just a weird visual design choice, or

chrome fog
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He just kept the secret of Taking close to him

safe galleon
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ah.

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i see, i see

chrome fog
safe galleon
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what benefit was taking to him, anyway? does being taken make a being stronger or something? because iirc we mostly see taken hive in the oryx fight, and like

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they're already plenty loyal to him

dim minnow
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it's sort of meant to reduce them down to their most simple, perfect form lorewise

safe galleon
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i see

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so it does enhance them somehow

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does the taker have full control over the take-ee? or is the drifter not being able to control the faken not something unique to him

dim minnow
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a strong central leader is needed for them to be fully effective

safe galleon
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icic

devout nimbus
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Currently it is the witness

safe galleon
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do we know how the witness learned to take? considering oryx seemed to have to go through a lot of trouble to become the taken king

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all things considered

chrome fog
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Considering how it’s the powerful enough to spread its influence through the Darkness, I’d say it learned how to do so on its own

outer dragon
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The Talen are the Final Shape

fresh zephyr
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Being taken is being confronted by the darkness and perfected by it, after being faced by the final shape.

fresh zephyr
fresh zephyr
chrome fog
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Taking can actually refer to two things:

  • the way we’re familiar, which removes one’s sense of self and makes them the ultimate minion of the one doing the Taking
  • Teleporting. Literally just teleporting, just like when the Witness and the Pyramids took the planetary destinations
chrome fog
torpid flint
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Final Shape is most likely the Vex

chrome fog
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They were the Final Shape, as the universe always defaulted to them becoming the end outcome of the universe by the time of its heat death

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Final Shape can be anything now

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It can be what the Witness wills it, it can be a confederation of different species living peacefully together, it can be many things now

ember storm
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the vex were final shapes before the concept was fully established

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taken are just shapes that are at their final form, cut down and all that jazz

empty fern
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Is this one of the dreaming city stones? It looks like a geo around the edges, (also what made these clean cuts)

IMG_6117.jpg
vocal imp
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What’s the lore behind nezarak?

daring sonnet
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what is the difference between eliksni and regular fallen?

slim mulch
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Nothing

daring sonnet
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oh is it just what they call themselves in their language?

tawdry mauve
daring sonnet
trim grotto
trim grotto
daring sonnet
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makes sense

real ingot
vocal imp
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Just curious about him

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Goofy final god of pain guy

real ingot
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Disciple of the Witness

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until he died

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for the 4th time we guess

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Nezarec dies a lot and has many tombs

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His last death before RoN was during the collapse as he led the attack on humanity

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He had the veil

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Savathun betrayed him and killed him

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cursed his remains so he couldn't revive

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then bam

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Traveler beams revives him by accident

vocal imp
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Oh

dim minnow
raven glen
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Crazy lore theory yall think destiny is a false universe simulation or its part of our universe lore wise to game cus Didnt the nine meantion us the player and u think witness knows i think too would that probably be the end of the destiny 2 light and dark saga đŸ˜±. And then maybe after that a extinction saga begind all species begin to die and our mission is survive. Tbh i wouldn’t mind if we lose in final shape since supposedly they have other plans would that mean we actually lose in final shape?

trim grotto
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Grammar, man

raven glen
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Potato patato 🙂

trim grotto
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That isn't even a viable response to my comment
Your comment refers to pronunciation

raven glen
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Tomato tamato

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Not native in English so much sooo ya

trim grotto
peak coral
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3 in fullscreen discord

chrome fog
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The Universe is a big chessboard for the Flower Game, and beyond that portal is a repository of all the “pieces” - all the “flowers” - put into play

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The Gardener/Winnower plays games with its pieces trying to see if any of its flowers will cooperate together

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Unfortunately the Vex continue to win each game because what can you do with a race that can convert all matter into itself?

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And so it decides to give some power to its creations - “parallel” ways to enact change to get around the Vex

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“Parallel Causality” to get around that which wins when you follow the logic

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But it is conflicted over how this changes the game, and so it adds itself as a piece in the game to personally oversee the user of this “Paracausality”

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Thas my theory

raven glen
slim elk
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Honestly expect Destiny will go dormant for a while after Final Shape.. at least the last gen consoles get support ended

raven glen
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Tbh i wouldn’t be surprised if they went quiet after for a while it’s basically last dlc so tbh they would probably need a lot of time thinking

slim elk
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Efforts clearly focused on Marathon as well

trim grotto
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Hardly
They have different teams, hired new people

slim elk
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When was the last PvP maps for Crucible and Gambit?

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With all the new blood, should be getting some right? 😉

trim grotto
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Those are also different groups within Destiny's team
And Crucible got some significant changes with comp and they're regularly tinkering with the modes

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Frankly it's silly to compare Crucible maps to Destiny's PvE content or story

slim elk
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Point of the matter is, you cant deny they have been extremely lackluster in comparision to prior dlc releases even dating back to D1
For being a "pillar" of the game.. Gambit has literally had more content removed from it then has ever been added to it

trim grotto
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Point of the matter is I don't particularly care for your opinions and shall leave this discussion now, because your constant negativity is draining

slim elk
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Anyway, Final Shape makes sense for ending console support for ps4 -Xbox one era consoles. They cant keep supporting the game forever on them

chrome fog
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Love this, love having this same conversation on Bungie’s development process based on our opinions in spite of them being relatively transparent about what they’re doing compared to game development companies of similar size

empty fern
trim grotto
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Could be from the Dreaming City, yeah. Oryx is the reason it is filled with Taken, after all. Can't say for sure, though.

chrome fog
# chrome fog Love this, love having this same conversation on Bungie’s development process ba...
  • “Oh Strand was definitely supposed to be in Witch Queen” the release of WQ they mentioned that they didn’t have a complete idea of what they wanted the next subclass to be but toyed with it being mental-based, Deepsight being as far as they got with developing it before finalizing WQ
  • “Oh, this should’ve released with Lightfall” WOW it’s almost like they said they were going to provide more insight into the Veil for the lack of coverage it got in the main campaign because they themselves weren’t satisfied with how it was implemented and realizing they were rushing the expansion because they had to change it midway before they realized they couldn’t finalize Final Shape before setting up all the points that they wanted in the narrative, Fucking Crazy
chrome fog
slim elk
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Most blatant is any Ahamhkara related exotic, they directly refer to the player in some

chrome fog
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Not to mention the connection to the Paraverse; outside of Dares, the MIDA guns come from Bungie’s first IP Marathon - which is getting a new entry/reboot soon - and the lore tab for the exotic one actually mentions that no one knows where it comes from

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There were also plans for Halo to be connected to the Marathon series though I am less learned on those details

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And of course the connection between Halo 3’s Destiny teaser and the reference to John-113 in D1

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The upcoming Marathon release might have some Easter eggs of both Destiny and Halo, so that’ll be fun to see in the future

empty fern
dim minnow
chrome fog
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It’s not a simple “Oh they did it later why couldn’t they do it before Lightfall’s release?” There were multiple factors playing into Lightfall being as troublesome as it was

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Oh! And they were developing Strand during this time as well

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Plus developing content for the upcoming seasons; they voice lines seasons in advance

torpid flint
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You know, just put this in the pins @chrome fog , you’re gonna be saying it a lot

empty fern
red robin
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is the black heart a vex version of the actual veil?

trim grotto
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A failed imitation, yes. Grown from a seed of darkness delivered by the Witness, shaped by Vex.

ember storm
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that’s just a rock

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also it was in D1

red robin
lyric karma
#

what are those green lights lore wise? Aurora?

image.png
slim perch
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earth still does function like earth so yeah id assume so

lyric karma
#

then why is it so big Harold

slim perch
#

earf

lyric karma
#

maybe earth's magnetosphere is f ed up

dim minnow
#

At this time of year?

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At this time of day?

lyric karma
#

this is why i'm asking

slim perch
#

At this part of the country?

lyric karma
#

I asked what are those lights

dim minnow
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Localized entirely within your kitchen?

slim perch
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... Yes

dim minnow
#

does Blume even know the reference we made?

lyric karma
#

no, i'm not into memes

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lemme guess, simpsons?

trim grotto
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Yes.

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Honestly, all we can say is that it appears to be an aurora.

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There's no more on the topic

rigid flower
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That or the devs just wanted a pretty visual.

trim grotto
rigid flower
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Oh, its probably obvious by now but...

trim grotto
#

D1 Vanilla era lore
Ye olden stuff

rigid flower
#

The Collapse didn't wipe out humanity because Savathun did a little trolling by hiding the Veil. Nez obviously noticed her but somehow lost and died to her. The Witness said "Oh shit, where's my weird plant?" and then the Traveller said "âšȘ" making the Witness do a full retreat.

rigid flower
sick yew
#

I somehow doubt the Witness even reached the traveler

trim grotto
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Also, it seems Savathûn somehow orchestrated a planet wide ritual. Which is... impressive.

rigid flower
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It's honestly a surprise that:

  1. We beat her.

  2. Eris somehow managed to control her in the dark timeline.

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Sav is kind of a beast.

sick yew
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We beat Savathun for obvious reasons

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Plot

peak coral
#

me when plot armor

sick yew
#

The same reason we have beaten everyone we directly faced so far

rigid flower
#

Get up in her face and whisper "I'm gonna turn you into a gun."

trim grotto
#

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/fundament-shell
'Al Eck Ruk Nam, Shu Nam Eck Ur'
thewitchqueen

Fundament Shell — Entry — Ishtar Collective

The Last Midnight Star
—
Gather 'round, young'uns. No, no automat for supper; no noodles. Tonight is something special: corn pone and chitlins. This here's history on a plate. Now, don't give me that look before you even taste it. If the world's fixing to end again, it's time you had a meal from our family's past while you hear about it. About h...

peak coral
lyric karma
peak coral
trim grotto
lyric karma
#

We kinda had red war

sick yew
#

Lol

rigid flower
peak coral
lyric karma
sick yew
peak coral
#

lightfall has dog writing we all know

lyric karma
#

The whole plot is witness trying to enter traveler

rigid flower
# sick yew Lightfall

I actually came up with a fresher version of the campaign while still keeping its major aspects in-tact, and adding a bit more.

peak coral
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but at least the gameplay works

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sorta

rigid flower
#

The gameplay is fun.

peak coral
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some parts yes

rigid flower
#

Imo, Lightfall has the best gameplay out of any expansion.

lyric karma
#

We need bigger consequences

peak coral
#

other parts strand tutorial 10086

sick yew
rigid flower
#

The narrative?

slim perch
lyric karma
sick yew
#

The hell we supposed to do about it

lyric karma
#

though the witness is gone

sick yew
#

Throw a medkit at it?

lyric karma
#

heal grenade

sick yew
rigid flower
#

Would you guys like to know my verion of Lightfall?

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👉👈

sick yew
#

Jumpstart the engine

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Traveler just needs an oil change and refueling

lyric karma
#

Our only big threat is xivu arath, right?

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Nezarec is dead, witness is gone, calus is dead, rhulk is dead, savathun is not revived yet

sick yew
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Yes

rigid flower
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Oryx is an issue if they get their hands on him.

sick yew
#

Not anymorec

lyric karma
#

we already made sure they won't

rigid flower
#

The Vex are....as threatening as ever. (Not really.)

lyric karma
#

literally gotd dungeon

rigid flower
#

Okay but his body is still intact, plus his worm was missing.

sick yew
#

Shadow Legion while working on their own are still around

lyric karma
#

Imagine excavating the body and placing his head at shaxx's place

peak coral
sick yew
#

Lol

rigid flower
#

The Shadow Legion might be under control of the Witness, aka the tormentors are giving orders.

peak coral
#

u see.

sick yew
#

With on their own I mean without direct command of the witness

rigid flower
#

The Witness hasn't done whatever the Final Shape is, in the last lorebook from this season, Xivu talks to them.

peak coral
#

witness > calus > shadow legion

sick yew
#

Witness no longer around
Calus dead

rigid flower
#

Tl;dr, The Witness calls someone else a loser.

#

That someone being Xivu.

lyric karma
#

and she's mad?

sick yew
#

Who wouldnt if the Witness called them a loser

smoky rose
#

The thing is while it’s gone, that doesn’t make it not a threat

#

It’s in the process of attempting to rewrite reality to its desires

chrome fog
rigid flower
sick yew
chrome fog
#

Alex I’m losing it

#

(I say as if I don’t take breaks from the server)

#

Maybe Warlock is right, probably should compile that into one message and get it pinned

sick yew
#

What?

chrome fog
candid inletBOT
#
gestaltzerfall2343 (ID 422866711344185345)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
Basically; there was no way to get out of struggling with this release with the restructuring in lieu of Sony’s purchase of the company as well as developing Marathon in the back burner, but they know it’ll piss off the community not knowing more about the Veil, mostly because they themselves were pissed they couldn’t elaborate on the Veil in the campaign

Command triggered by gestaltzerfall2343. Message link from ·
chrome fog
#

It’s an interruption to discussion and is constantly used as a criticism of the lore, not the implications or the information that the lore reveals

sick yew
#

Hm

chrome fog
#

Also harshes the vibes

rigid flower
#

"Harshes the vibes."

rigid flower
#

When I say a version to freshen up the campaign as a whole, I mean it as a way to better it. Obviously they shouldn't go back and rework an entire expansion. Despite that, I am free to make criticisms and personal adjustments to try and improve, no reason to be complacent.

#

The version I want to talk about is also purely me wanting to let out a form of entertainment.

#

I like to try and entertain people.

#

Hence why I linked something about Calus in here a week or so ago.

fresh zephyr
#

Lightfall wasn't even that bad imo

sick yew
#

Agreed

#

I engaged way more with the story than Witch Queen

fresh zephyr
#

I wouldn't go this far tbh

sick yew
#

I would

fresh zephyr
#

But considering destiny never rlly was about the story then does it really matter if it was mid as long as you have fun doing it?

sick yew
#

What

#

wdym destiny never really was about the story?

#

My man theyve been building this shit up since d1

chrome fog
#

Ah, yes, the game which requires a 4 hour video to catch up on the story is not really about the story

#

The game which has published books of the lore is not about the lore

fresh zephyr
#

Marvel's built up a story for years, but most people watches it for the action scenes

chrome fog
sick yew
#

I mean cant exactly compare movies to games

fresh zephyr
#

Because it HAS a story doesn't make it ABOUT the story

chrome fog
sick yew
#

Youre correct that gameplay is a very important part of destiny and always takes priority
But especially in recent years Bungie has very much leaned into the story aspects

fresh zephyr
#

Sure it's mostly good, but would you even care if the game had a different gameplay?

chrome fog
#

It’s been their intent to build up the story, that’s their goal with all their games

sick yew
chrome fog
#

Hell, they have call backs to their original Doom-like ip that they started off with in Destiny, their most recent project

fresh zephyr
#

Say the game was an arpg for example? Or a platformer?

chrome fog
#

And they’re returning to that same ip soon

fresh zephyr
#

Don't get me starred on the cash grav that is marathon lol..

chrome fog
fresh zephyr
#

That's not what I meant

#

I'm not saying these games don't have a great story because they belong to different genres

chrome fog
#

Regardless, there’s a whole fucking tab in-game for the lore; I don’t think your correct in this game “not being about the lore”

#

As well as, oh idk, the number of cutscenes and writing they do for the game?

fresh zephyr
#

What I'm saying is, were u attracted to the game because of the story or because of the gameplay first?

chrome fog
#

And the gameplay

fresh zephyr
#

When did u start playing?

chrome fog
#

Because both are integral to the identity of Destiny

chrome fog
#

And with that

#

No longer engaging

fresh zephyr
#

Ah there, had you played destiny 1 you would see things differently I believe, cause back then it was all about the loot and gameplay since the story was so mediocre

#

Mostly D1 vanilla obviously

sick yew
#

If youve been playing since d1 you more than most others should see how much more integral the story has become to the game since then

fresh zephyr
#

It has become more relevant, what I'm saying is it never was at first

#

Then they decided to put more effort into it

chrome fog
#

Hmmmm wonder what channel you’re in

chrome fog
fresh zephyr
#

The lore channel yes

#

Oh you mean the thing that wasn't even in the game? Yea sure

chrome fog
#

So maybe the lore is a major part of the game if a server dedicated to the game has a dedicated lore channel

trim grotto
chrome fog
#

This truly is Evil Dovah

trim grotto
#

And have you played the original Marathons? Their story and lore was absolutely insane

fresh zephyr
trim grotto
chrome fog
#

Almost like Bungie loves developing games with heavy story elements interwoven with somewhat intriguing gameplay

fresh zephyr
#

Looks like it imo

real ingot
fresh zephyr
#

Might be wrong tho

chrome fog
#

Anyways

real ingot
#

But yeah

#

lore was a big thing in D1

#

end of story

fresh zephyr
#

Lore yes, story no

chrome fog
#

What was your favorite lore bit from D1

real ingot
fresh zephyr
#

Not D1 vanilla

real ingot
#

It wasn't a specific bit

chrome fog
real ingot
#

it was more the whole theorising and open ended nature

#

Early Destiny lore was very abstract at times

fresh zephyr
#

But tbh they have been putting less and less effort into the story telling aspect of the game since season of plunder

chrome fog
#

That was a major vibe of the game that I got from glimpses into the lore

#

Even if I couldn’t play it

real ingot
#

Kinda glad they've left shit like the Veil somewhat open

#

I despise being spoonfed stuff

fresh zephyr
#

Agreed

#

However the way they treated it was very off putting

chrome fog
#

I wonder if the Veil Containment Logs will shift back onto focusing on the Veil, or if it’s meant to showcase the consequences of establishing a society near the Veil, as well as explain why Neomuna has a bunch of buried information

sick yew
#

Gotta wait and see

#

Honestly having some more early post collapse lore is pretty cool tho

real ingot
#

lore has been great this season

chrome fog
#

From how Quinn pulls Winterbite out of storage and that one entry of the numerous guards guarding a bench thag has been years long dried, it could be that complacency could’ve gotten to them

chrome fog
real ingot
#

The story can be ass but they've only dissappointed with lore once imo

chrome fog
#

For which instance?

#

Just Lightfall or was it something else?

real ingot
sick yew
#

huh?

chrome fog
#

Mmm fair

sick yew
#

How so

chrome fog
#

I think?

real ingot
#

this isn't a unique take

real ingot
sick yew
#

First time hearing someone dislike Dark Future

real ingot
#

The concept is great

#

the book

#

sucks

chrome fog
#

Oh, there was some other book I know a bunch of people hated, Mars something

sick yew
#

Again why

real ingot
#

it just

versed orbit
real ingot
#

wasn't good is the best I can say

sick yew
#

Hm either im drastically misremembering things (which to be fair been a hot minute since ive read it) I dont think it was THAT bad

real ingot
#

give it a read

sick yew
#

Not now

#

Maybe later

#

However I will take this oppertunity to once again purpose a lorebook concept id love to see

versed orbit
#

ghost stories 2

sick yew
#

For example season of Chosen but we end up being defeated in the rite of proving

chrome fog
rigid flower
sick yew
#

Fun?

rigid flower
#

Witch Queen's gameplay was...ehhh...kinda basic.

#

Lightfall had more energy.

sick yew
#

It was just all around more enjoyable
Environment, music, story, characters

rigid flower
#

Environment was for sure better, I will 100% agree.

#

Music is kind of a tie for me, both have great soundtracks.

sick yew
#

Everyone hates on Nimbus but Fynch was so much more annoying

#

Seeing Osiris struggle with being lightless still was a pretty good side plot of LF imo

torpid flint
rigid flower
#

My issue with Nimbus stems from the fact that they weren't the right tone.

#

Obviously a massive complaint was him being happy and cheerful in the mission right after Rohan died was uh...yeah.

#

But do I hate Nimbus? No.

#

Nimbus is actually what got me really inspired to start doing a revamped version of LF just because of a new interaction he has for a public event.

torpid flint
#

Could just be a screwed up way of coping for him

sick yew
#

Truly an insane concept

rigid flower
#

Here's the thing, said coping with death was done PERFECTLY....after the campaign.

#

In the, iirc, unfinished buisness questline.

sick yew
#

Exactly

rigid flower
#

Those missions were top notch.

sick yew
#

Nimbus' personality was 100 thousand times better written than Cayde's (ingame at least)

rigid flower
#

Said new interaction btw, gonna paraphrase since I don't remember the exact dialogue:

Nimbus calls out about another Cabal thing (same one on Nessus.)

Ghost responds talking about it, and Nimbus talks about another one that just landed...and so Nimbus asks, not with a happy go lucky tone, but with a competitive one:

"Wanna race?"

#

Ghost reponds by saying: "If you can keep up."

#

That honestly put a smile on my face and made me remember that Nimbus has known us for awhile now.

#

Beutiful writing and its something very basic.

chrome fog
#

I agree with their tone being somewhat clashing with the rest of Lightfall, but that is a beautiful interaction, for how short it is

#

I do wish they had more of a “Barely keeping it together Prep” vibe after the death of Rohan, maybe a bloodcurdling “NOOOOO” as Rohan sacrifices himself, but they do be a neat little character when it fits

#

Just something to make events impact them more

rigid flower
#

Yeahhh, the way Nimbus acts in the Strike is as if nothing happened, as well as the cutscene in the next mission. "I'm full of fury, she's got an army, and you've got magic green strings."

Feels more like someone destroyed their nintendo switch instead of their close friend and mentor dying.

fresh zephyr
#

Tone was really off

rigid flower
#

Also, if there's one thing I wouldn't change at all, it's the first mission as well as its cutscenes.

#

Actually peak, including Nimbus.

fresh zephyr
#

Nimbus was probably the main cause for the tone issues in this DLC imo

chrome fog
#

Fist bump was kinda funny, they really didn’t ask Caital if Calus was her dad

fresh zephyr
#

Killed the vibe for me honestly

rigid flower
#

Where I despise that moment, I can't help but laugh at Nimbus's face while trying to fist bump Caitl.

#

Picture this:
Your dad, who you've had a complicated relationship with just died, despite the hatred you have for the things he's done, you still had love in your heart for him. All the sudden, guy you just met comes up and calls your dad ugly and asks for fist bump.

fresh zephyr
#

Was expecting her to hit him

trim grotto
#

She wanted to murder Calus for decades. She probably wasn't too heartbroken.

chrome fog
rigid flower
chrome fog
#

In seriousness, Nimbus’ chipper positivity could’ve worked a good contrast to the situation, the only issue was that he bounced back from pretty major losses relatively fine, which felt off

#

Drifter’s great because he balances his goofiness with sincere moments of vulnerability, which we get to see in Nimbus during that exotic quest

rigid flower
#

Oh yeah, Nimbus was great in unfinished buisness.

#

Writers just went a bit overboard during the campaign.

slim elk
#

Neomuna itself as a whole is kinda a wasted concept as well

We don't really see anyone's reactions to learning there was a whole other human civilization this whole time that developed beyond the Golden Age.. despite Ghost even commenting about it in the first mission
(Wait till we tell Zavala about this!)

chrome fog
#

It’s also cute how he’s shadowing Osiris in the Veil Containment logs and in Unfinished Business, goes far to show how Osiris is trying to reach out to Nimbus in a place of experience

rigid flower
#

Give Zavala a break he has dementia.

rigid flower
chrome fog
#

I mean if you want Neomuna lore, Veil Containment logs are right there

rigid flower
#

I enjoy the VC logs, though, I like others am not a fan of dripfeeding.

chrome fog
#

I’d say the community deserves it a bit for being
 recently rancid

rigid flower
#

I also kinda wished Osiris and Nimbus were in the containment with us instead of being over comms.

slim elk
rigid flower
slim elk
#

I do find it funny we got a more info on the Veil in the Witness origins cutscenes then the Logs thus far.

Heck, one was entirely devoted to SIVA's evolution

ember storm
#

people going “wait Maya was a bad guy???” has the same energy to me as that one Adam Sandler movie with the video games

rigid flower
#

Also, obviously its intentional, unless I've missed a lot of them, Savathun still has new...whatever they're called every week.

#

The memory things.

rigid flower
slim elk
ember storm
ember storm
#

Maya was always just shitty

rigid flower
#

Though, I didn't expect Maya to possibly be under the control of the Witness, especially after her bouts with Clovis.

ember storm
#

wasn’t it one of her copies that went after him

slim elk
ember storm
#

Maya was always a bad person

#

Neomuna isn’t changing anything

rigid flower
#

May have been? Idk, haven't gone through the journal of clovis bray recently.

ember storm
#

it’s just presenting her being even worse

chrome fog
#

She does seem to be of the same breed as Clovis, but was smart enough to keep her ego in check from looking like a jackass

#

I’m still of the mind that the Veil isn’t really doing anything, just telling her stuff, and she’s like “Oh! It’s like Clovis said! Ahahahahahah, I’ve found Clarity!”

slim elk
ember storm
#

what do you think the veil sounds like

#

larry king?

chrome fog
#

Maybe a snarkier Traveler

tulip knoll
#

Think a whirring high tech sorta sound

#

Pulsing type sound

chrome fog
#

When it’s talking to people, what you think the Veil sounds like

tulip knoll
#

Deep voice

#

Very deep

chrome fog
#

It’s kinda dumb but I’m thinking Xivu Arath’s voice

tulip knoll
#

Really?

#

Not weird

ember storm
#

it’s pretty lame if every darkness related thing has a deep booming voice

#

why not something like Gilbert Gottfried

chrome fog
tulip knoll
#

Would u rather it sound like Ryan Reynolds

slim elk
chrome fog
#

I’d rather it be amusing

ember storm
#

so what’s the general consensus on unveiling these days

tulip knoll
#

Witness propaganda

chrome fog
#

A Bible with the book of Epoch in it

#

But Destiny

#

Lotsa truth, bits of lies to make us doubt it all

ember storm
#

I don’t think it’s lies I think it’s just what the witness genuinely believes

chrome fog
#

Well, there’s that too

#

But like, I believe the Winnower is a concept it made for itself after seeing the Gods of this universe and them not doing much other than giving gifts

#

Everything else is the same, but the Witness expects us to just agree instead of saying it’s an idiot

slim elk
#

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xoxf0LFYtNk&pp=ygUWRGVzdGlueSB2ZWlsIGZpcnN0IGxvZw%3D%3D
Maya says she heard the name "Veil" in this log from a whisper of her own voice.. so seems to answer what the Veil sounds like

YouTube
Destiny Lore Vault
Veil Containment | Second Research Log: "An Electromagnetic Anomaly...

The Guardian decrypts the 2nd research log from Veil Containment's archive.

**

Chioma Esi: Chioma Esi, research log: the Veil. [sighs] I don't even know where to start. When we landed on Neptune, there was... something waiting for us. An alien structure. It's an electromagnetic anomaly. No mass, but a tangible surface area. It's like a thesis...

▶ Play video
ember storm
chrome fog
#

I’m also realizing that if the Gardener wanted to involve itself in the game, what if splitting itself was the only way to join as a mortal being?

ember storm
#

it should sound like markiplier

chrome fog
tulip knoll
#

Given the witness’s true nature, I feel like the concept of lying is somewhat, beyond it. Or it doesn’t really have a reason to lie about anything. That’s just my take.

chrome fog
slim elk
chrome fog
#

The creation of the Hive as we know them, Calus’ belief that it would uplift him into godhood instead of being a pawn in its game

tulip knoll
#

That’s true yeah

chrome fog
rich veldt
#

what in the hell going on lore chat

chrome fog
#

Pain, pain is going on

#

But now it’s fun again

tulip knoll
#

Xivu can scream in my ear for pleasure

chrome fog
#

I really wanna hear a podcast with the Hive God Siblings, such good voices

#

It’d also be funny if Xivu is constantly screaming but is talking about relatively chill stuff and the others act so normal about it

rigid flower
#

Oh nvm I read that wrong.

tulip knoll
#

Savathun seems like a wine type gal

#

Oryx with a beer

#

Xivu with


chrome fog
#

Microbrew

tulip knoll
#

Hmm

chrome fog
#

Very particular about her alcohol

tulip knoll
#

Nah oryx would be a whiskey

#

Defo

chrome fog
#

Speaking of which. We’re skirting the rules a bit

rich veldt
#

rule 3 cough cough

chrome fog
#

But these are based and funny takes

tulip knoll
#

Oop my bad

chrome fog
rigid flower
#

Especially Sav.

#

Gotta ask btw, since I'm either not sure or just forgot...

#

Do we know what Clarity is?

#

As in the thing on...the moon?

chrome fog
#

Witness

#

Speaking through the statue

rigid flower
#

Just the Witness speaking throu-

#

Ah okay.

chrome fog
#

Probably why all the Exos crashed when they got near the Veil

rigid flower
#

Which....if it was on the moon, it could've possibly came from Nez's ship?

chrome fog
#

caydeok bingo

#

Probably

rigid flower
#

Assuming Savathun didn't kill Nez early on, the Witness could've asked him to start setting stuff into motion for an easier way to get to the traveler.

#

No resistance, just slide on through.

chrome fog
#

That would culminate with the Black Heart, whose destruction would indicate that the Traveler and her forces have recovered enough to pose as a threat to the Witness’ goals

rigid flower
#

Fair enough.

chrome fog
#

Nezarec could’ve also just left it to be discovered to fuck with whoever discovered it, which just so happened to allow the Witness to manipulate Clovis into discovering the Europa Vex portal and doing his shit

rigid flower
#

Everything in the background is going to shit while people on Earth are just vibing.

slim elk
#

Cue the Doom Doritos

fiery copper
chrome fog
#

Why you think they gave us a fishing quest?

ember storm
#

the charity shell actually goes into this

#

it’s good lore

arctic pawn
#

i just watched the latest "cutscene", is the witness formed out of the whole population of that planet?

chrome fog
#

Yes

#

They discovered the Darkness and performed a ritual to merge themselves into one entity

empty fern
#

Ye, which is honestly scary and cool af

chrome fog
#

To impose the purpose that they believe is the meaning of all life

empty fern
#

And we finally know what those weird almost human amalgamations are, (they are corpses I think?)

chrome fog
#

It’s a bit more obvious with the RoN raid, the statues look more Cabal in shape

empty fern
#

True

#

So we got 5 different statues
Rhulks lower half
Horse centipede (probably star horse with causality)
Nezerac statue
The covered statue (one at the end of gos, I think witness right?)
Witnesses people statues (usually a bundle of humanoid shapes)
And cabal statues (can be found in planets encounter hallway)

#

I think that’s 5

#

And maybe forgot one

slim elk
#

Technically had all the ones in the room at end of arrivals decipting Hive, Humanity, Fallen and Cabal

empty fern
#

Oh yea those statues too

#

Wish that was a permanent place, looked cool

torpid flint
#

Don’t forget DSC

#

Well there was only one but still

empty fern
#

Yea

#

Gos has 1 at the end
Deep stone has one before atraks
Is there another raid that has one?

fallow sky
#

Do you guys think the young wolf could beat mara in a fight?

trim grotto
#

It's... very difficult to say. Mara has a lot of power that we do not comprehend.

#

I wouldn't want to try. For a variety of reasons.

chrome fog
#

Powerscaling is moot in Destiny anyways

empty fern
#

Mara is weird, super powerful but died to oryx (he’s insanely powerful at the time) and then she hid in the plane for a bit, returned (weakened?) and chilled on the sidelines for a bit

rigid flower
#

Mara also...tied(?) or lost(?) to Xivu in the ascendant plane.

empty fern
#

Oh yea

smoky rose
#

That’s less concerning than the fact she literally nuked a pyramid ship into tiny fragments

fresh zephyr
#

The Guardian is crazy powerful now, having beaten literal gods and reality defying monsters

#

Mara would die 100%

ember storm
#

🗿

rich veldt
outer dragon
empty fern
#

How sturdy was oryx’s dreadnaught, cause she used what looked to be a pretty exhausting spell to fling gravity orbs at it and it was barely scratched

#

This scene yea

smoky rose
#

So pretty sturdy

empty fern
#

Oh yea

#

Honestly

#

Remember that art oryx fighting the worm god? The really out of proportions one, that might be more realistic than we think

fallow sky
rich veldt
fresh zephyr
#

Oh yeah?

#

I count

devout nimbus
#

You count

ember storm
#

count what

rich veldt
#

i count:
crota being extremely weak about to die anyways
oryx extremely weak about to die anyways
red war being complete luck
eramis being bad
savu being a week old new light and getting traumatised halfway through the fight
rhulk not even trying till final stand and then being to weak in final stand to kill the team
nezzy eh he got fucked over dont include him
riven wanted to die
xol was just weak gg ez

devout nimbus
#

Calus was weak too

ember storm
#

it’s not really as big as an achievement as you think it is to say you’ve killed “gods” anyway

rich veldt
#

calus who?

ember storm
#

they’re not actual gods

devout nimbus
#

Wonder how we best the witness

ember storm
#

they’re as much of a god as whatever the fuck the leader of Scientology is

rich veldt
ember storm
devout nimbus
#

Witness fell over and banged his head which greatly weakened him

fresh zephyr
#

1 time and reality warping robot,
1 god of the hive, imbued by the witness's power
1 nanomachine infused tech demi-god
1 Emperor of the Cabal
1 Vex planetary core
1 reality defying, supposedly immortal dragon
1 darkness infused vex champion
1 Fallen empire
1 hive god, this time infused by our very own power
3 disciples of the universe ending megamind looking mofo
As well as literal trillions of ennemies along the way

#

What power does mara have that we can't overcome at this point?

ember storm
#

basic logic

#

would you care to remember every single raid boss coming down to extreme and very specific circumstances

devout nimbus
#

We just have the power of the MC

rich veldt
#

lmao bros counting the vex who cant even simulate us

ember storm
#

we wouldn’t have even been able to scratch atheon if not for the work of Kabr

devout nimbus
#

Oh yeah atheon

#

We beat because another guardian died to make the relic

ember storm
#

Crota’s state was also entirely due to a random knight who died

#

Oryx was also severely weakened, and even then

rich veldt
#

for obvious reasons i didnt include vex/siva on my list cause why would i

fresh zephyr
ember storm
#

he was only remotely vulnerable because Mara purposefully sacrificed her army

ember storm
#

Kabr and his fireteam were just a bunch of randos

fresh zephyr
rich veldt
#

also tf you mean supposedly immortal for ahamkara? they are immortal beings, when we 'kill' them they just ascend to a greater being

ember storm
#

Osiris was literally never in danger from the Vex?

fresh zephyr
#

Literally 2 former vanguards?

ember storm
#

Also Saint is an entirely different story altogether

#

also being vanguard is not a test of strength whatsoever

#

being a fighter has essentially nothing to do with the position

fresh zephyr
#

What was your point again?

ember storm
#

that your point is lame and uncool and not very thought out

rich veldt
#

saint they built a mind specfically to kill his ghost and even without his light he went on for hundreds of thousands of years without dying

ember storm
#

the very first thing on your list was entirely due to coincidence and circumstance

fresh zephyr
#

What is it with the mara Fanclub all of a sudden

ember storm
#

we’d have never even gotten to Atheon’s chamber without every other factor involved

ember storm
#

your point is just wrong

rich veldt
#

its not a fan club its just pointing out we aint as strong as you think we are

fresh zephyr
#

Sooo you're just undermining all the achievements of the guardian?

ember storm
#

like you’re seriously putting down fucking Argos as a big achievement?

#

its fucking Argos

fresh zephyr
#

From a lore perspective, yes.

ember storm
#

from a lore perspective it’s not much of an achievement either

rich veldt
#

you are over hyping the achievements more then anything

fresh zephyr
#

It is tho

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Even Calus couldn't deal with it

ember storm
#

we weren’t under any prominent threat from Argos, nor did its death have any lasting effects

ember storm
smoky rose
#

^

ember storm
#

Argos is as noteworthy as a strike boss

rich veldt
#

why would calus do shit when he has wine to drink

fresh zephyr
#

If we didn't kill argos, it's probable it would have taken over the leviathan or at least kept it stuck over nessus, preventing Calus from ever doing anything, preventing his return to power and his ascension as a disciple?

ember storm
#

that’s literally a good thing

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we shouldn’t have killed it

fresh zephyr
#

You said it didn't change anything

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It did

smoky rose
#

Mind you the guardian had to get Rasputin to destroy the Almighty, Mara literally just rocked up and nuked a pyramid into tiny bits

ember storm
#

if we didn’t kill Argos

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literally any group of guardians would have

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especially considering Calus actually had supporters willing to fight for him

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like Katabasis

fresh zephyr
#

The thing is, canonically, only our fireteam does raids, so no?

rich veldt
#

its like how many random guardians probably did the levi raid cause he had enough robots

ember storm
#

Vault of Glass is literally the most obvious example of us not being the first ones

devout nimbus
#

Do cabal and eliksni have surnames

ember storm
#

also leviathan was ran countless times by a bunch of fireteams

fresh zephyr
#

Also, when was the pyramid bit confirmed anyways?

fresh zephyr
ember storm
#

the existence of the Aegis

fresh zephyr
#

Last time I checked, it was a dream that Fenchurch had on the moon? So not confirmed Canon yet?

fallow sky
fresh zephyr
rich veldt
ember storm
#

we’d have been dead in the water without outside help

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which is also the case for basically every single thing we do

fresh zephyr
#

Reverse your logic for a sec

ember storm
#

it’s not my logic it’s literally just the events that happened

#

we needed the aegis to clear the vault

fresh zephyr
#

Yeah I know I've played destiny thanks

ember storm
#

we wouldn’t have even gotten past the gatekeeper without it

fresh zephyr
#

Yes

ember storm
#

you can’t use VoG as “a testament to our strength”

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it was literally entirely dependent on somebody else’s choices and skills

rich veldt
#

like how we need 2 hive knights to get into an argument and kill eachover so we could kill crota then oryx

fresh zephyr
#

Like for every other raid?
But with that logic, if we never came around and swept the vault, the aegis could've sat there for the rest of existence?

ember storm
#

the aegis was left there for future use

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if it was never used

#

then it would just sit there

fresh zephyr
#

My guy we're the main character, ofc we're not supposed to be a literal god right away, we're still the strongest being at the end of the story

rich veldt
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not true

ember storm
#

ah yes right

fresh zephyr
#

Alr

ember storm
#

the literal god who can’t shoot a ghost sitting in the air for 10 seconds straight

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twice in a row

fresh zephyr
#

Who's the strongest character in your opinion in the lore?

ember storm
#

starhorse

rich veldt
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witness, starhorse and the race of ahamkara are the top 3

fresh zephyr
#

Alr let's go with witness

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Are you going to tell me, the witness won't be either dead or defeated by us by the end of the final shape?

rich veldt
#

yes

ember storm
#

You attempt to fight the witness

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this happens

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the end

fresh zephyr
#

We are the main character of the story, he is the main villain...?

rich veldt
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at best it might be neutralised

fresh zephyr
#

What..?

#

No he's gonna be dead of course, or at least beaten..

ember storm
#

are you really telling me the only media you’ve consumed in your entire life only end with a bad guy dying

fresh zephyr
#

My guy

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This is destiny

#

Not classical literature

#

Ofc the bad guy dies

ember storm
#

you might’ve heard of something called Lightfall

#

where we famously didn’t kill the bad guy

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and lost

fresh zephyr
#

They literally all died

#

We killed calus? He was the bad guy of the expansion?

rich veldt
#

we very much didnt win in lf tho, the witness was the big bad and made the portal connection

ember storm
#

the game repeatedly enforced that Calus was nothing more than a minion

fresh zephyr
#

Never said anything abt winning

#

And ofc witness is not dead, otherwise the story would be over?

ember storm
#

bungie already confirmed destiny is continuing after FS, so

#

it’s not going to be over either way

fresh zephyr
#

Yes, past the dark and light saga

#

So probably no more light, nor dark

rich veldt
#

so we become normal humans of no powers?

fresh zephyr
#

Either that or new powers I guess

#

But you can't tell me the dehumanized, genocidal villain, literal embodiment of ultimate evil in this franchise won't be destroyed or neutralized by the end of the story

ember storm
#

Going back to the original point

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let’s just use basic power scaling logic

#

since I assume you like that

#

Mara can explode pyramids into small shards

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can guardians do that?

fresh zephyr
#

Not confirmed yet..

#

Not confirmed, not cannon

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Unless I missed something

slim elk
#

There's a simple way to kill the Witness.. hijack it's own plan and used the combined forces of reality to purge it from existence

chrome fog
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Waltz no way Evil Dova trying to powerscale the Young Wolf

#

That’s amazing

ember storm
chrome fog
fresh zephyr
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Ah

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The condescending attitude

#

Nice

chrome fog
#

Do you see an activity to do that? And interactable that lets that happen? No, the Pyramids remain indestructible platforming terrain we can’t destroy

fresh zephyr
#

You got me wrong there, it's not confirmed that mara destroyed a pyramid

#

I know damn well guardians can't do that yet

chrome fog
#

Best demonstration we have of the Young Wolf’s power is an alternate future where we glass a planet’s surface fighting Ikora, and that’s the Chronicon, Calus’ personal fanfic of how he imagines the universe will be like made in his imagine

ember storm
#

hell we don’t even have to go with a pyramid ship for this one

#

Mara’s power chewed through Oryx’s fleet like paper

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the tombships and mini-naughts were torn to shreds

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we can’t even dent either of those

chrome fog
#

Every other time has been us assisted by the efforts of others to achieve a shared goal, like idk, the point of choosing us guardians?

slim elk
rich veldt
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mara would have easily destroyed the almighty if she wanted to

fresh zephyr
#

Wow

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Y'all are really getting mad at that eh?

#

Sorry I insulted your waifu jeez

rich veldt
#

we just tryna correct you

chrome fog
# fresh zephyr Wow

If you have any evidence of the Young Wolf being as powerful then please, by all means we concede, but actually cite something as evidence

fresh zephyr
#

Idk man not everyone sounds very friendly rn

chrome fog
#

Because if you want to powerscale, powerscale properly

ember storm
#

Greg the Dreg can kill me when I’m at 1 hp from fall damage

#

Greg is now the most powerful being in the solar system

fresh zephyr
#

Mara destroyed oryx's fleet with the help of half a dozen techeun? And then she just died? She also got played by Riven, and savathun? Ennemies that WE have defeated?

chrome fog
slim elk
chrome fog
rich veldt
#

savu also had no discipline and her spam was probably related to the experimentation on the light and hive magic

#

also not limited by our gameplay mechanics

ember storm
#

less than a week to heighten her abilities

#

we basically just killed three new lights stacked on each others shoulders

chrome fog
fallow sky
#

She had to charge herself with the power of a dead god in preperation and even so it killed her, but we don’t know the size of the pyramid nor if it was a one time thing or not much of anything. I don’t think that single thing is enough to really judge how powerful mara is, not like the pyramid exploded either it was split in half which is still pretty bonkers

fresh zephyr
#

And, again, the pyramid bit, irrc, was a dream that Fenchurch had while on patrol on the moon

#

So not confirmed in any for now

#

Unless, again, I missed something which might very well be the case

chrome fog
pearl basin
#

is savathun an ally or enemy or what , i was so confused after last weeks cutscene

chrome fog
rich veldt
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we are gonna have to try work with her

fresh zephyr
chrome fog
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As much as she might be our enemy she’s still going to want to live in a free universe not turned into whatever the fuck the Witness wants it to be

slim elk
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Whatever damage Savathun does... Witness is worse

chrome fog
slim elk
#

for comparison
Witness actually made Mara break given her reaction to it in Witch Queen

fresh zephyr
chrome fog
slim elk
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So my view of it is we can't beat the Witness conventionally
(See it tanking the Traveler mimicking the Death Star)
But it's likely we can hijack it's own plan and end it that way

fallow sky
chrome fog
#

@rich veldt you want to post the excerpt or can I post it for miraak here?

rich veldt
#

if you got it copied already go ahead

chrome fog
# 
9. ERI-223 recalled VIP #0704 from her throne by Hive ritual, which required both women to confront SAV/INCAR at great personal risk. The two then descended to the surface of Eris to explore the wreckage there. There was an incident (it may have been an attack, or an accident caused by volatile debris or by interaction with 136199 Eris's frozen methane surface), and ERI-223 was badly wounded. Although ERI 223 has techniques to survive in hostile environments, they were disrupted and she was exposed to near-vacuum. VIP #0704 deployed a shelter and treated the wounds in what I interpolate was a moment of reconciliation and perhaps genuine tenderness between them. ERI-223 attempted to show me the scar, although I declined.``` 1/2
# 
10. I am left with more questions. Was the presence of a debris field on the surface totally unrelated to the ship in orbit? If it was related, did VIP #0704 destroy it; and if so, why has she not shared this capability with us? Faced with the skepticism and distrust of so many Guardians (a distrust that has persisted despite #0101's reports that in multiple possible futures, #0704 died fighting alongside our forces in the final reckoning), surely #0704 would want to advertise her victory. If she did destroy that Pyramid ship, was it a one-off event that she will be unable to reproduce? Perhaps she has to physically contact a Pyramid to destroy it, and the Pyramids have now rendered this impossible. Or perhaps she approached in the disguise of VIP #2015, a disguise which is now compromised. VIP #0704 remains a difficult and inscrutable ally.``` 2/2
slim elk
#

That sort of power? Erasing a singular species is easy in comparison

#

Makes a decent plot line for Final Shape campaign

chrome fog
#

Could also make for a neat 6th subclass; something liquid, though that can be demonstrated with particles or a literal liquid

#

we can finally have that Gatling Gun super for Titans

slim elk
fresh zephyr
slim elk
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Even in best case with Mara.. it seems like a one off deal
Otherwise why not have Mara wreck all the Pyramid prisons in Defiance?

fresh zephyr
#

Also, Mara does die in this instance, which implies that either she doesn't have that power at all, or that she does but cannot fully control it, or that it includes a form of self destructive power so great that it basically works like a nuclear weapon, a sort of M.A.D. that she can only make use of once in a while at best

#

Or, last option, that it took the combined power of Mara and Eris to accomplish this feat

#

Again, as of right now we just don't know anything for sure.

slim elk
#

Besides.. hyperfocusing on Mara you seem to have missed the other individual who has crippled two pyramids singlehandedly

#

That would be Savathun

fresh zephyr
#

True

#

I'm very curious to know how she did that, especially in Rhulk's case

slim elk
#

Feel free to ask her in around 50 days

fresh zephyr
#

Seems about right

slim elk
#

Personally I would have cut her head off and thrown it into the Mars Relic to learn her secrets Ala Ikora did with the Worm

fresh zephyr
#

U know they needed a way to bring her back

slim elk
#

Bungie seems to have quietly dropped that things capabilities alas

fresh zephyr
#

Only way to make the mid year seasonal content interesting

#

Bungie are the kings of making up things and then forgetting about it

slim elk
#

Really the question will be how difficult Bungie will make it to revive Savathun next season
Literally all we have to do is throw her corpse back into the throne world and sit around till Immaru shows so we can talk

#

Wouldn't put it past Bungie though to make things obtuse..

chrome fog
fresh zephyr
fresh zephyr
rich veldt
#

how is it not confirmed

fresh zephyr
#

Go and read the lore card

#

I don't know what else to say, look at what Fenchurch has to say

chrome fog
rich veldt
#

you think i havent? the reason its kept hidden is that sorta stuff is very need to know, and its not something people need to know

chrome fog
#

And as mentioned in the Stolen Intelligence book, Fenchurch woke up to a Thrall with a shard in it

fresh zephyr
#

Man you can link it to me as many times as you want, I've read the thing a long time ago, never says anywhere that she did that, so there's really no point in arguing we there it happened or not

chrome fog
#

As is referenced in this bit

rich veldt
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it literally says it wasnt a hallucination/dream and very much did happen

chrome fog
#

I love contrarians for contrary’s sake

fresh zephyr
#

Where does it say she destroyed a pyramid?

#

I love people who can't handle different opinions

chrome fog
#

Beginning of part two of the excerpt and the end of the first part

chrome fog
fresh zephyr
#

My man, you didn't even know the name of the original lore card

chrome fog
#

Then read it again

#

And read the excerpt