General modding chat

[near parcel]

By doing that you are significantly reducing the time resolution of the physics, which obviously destroys its accuracy

[warm canopy]

It’s also been done before

[shadow iris]

I'd think that even something like 101% wouldnt be as glitchy as it is but that explanation sounds correct

[scenic echo]

How can you rotate custom objects?

[regal bear]

Same as with a prefab - using the SetRotation function

[median cobalt]

Does setphysicsspeed scale the internal tickrate (engine still running at normal tickrate) or the actual engine tickrate at its core

Ill need a proper answer from someone who knows

Cuz if it scales the physspeed with everything else like mod refresh rates it might be impossible to make a module im considering

[shadow iris]

im pretty sure physics speed is different from mod tickrate although i havent done a lot of testing

so if you set physspeed to 50% mod timing wont be affected

[near parcel]

it changes the time step size of the physics simulation. The game will still attempt to update the physics at 60fps, but those 60 frames might be longer/shorter than 1 in game second

[near parcel]

it's only different if you set your mod to anything below 60fps

[shadow iris]

oops, but does it really matter if i catch these errors because it isnt fatal and it would take extra code (L optimization) to catch them for something that needs to run as quick as possible

funny when it throws that error the scraps are actually cleaned up

i dont think its supposed to be called that many times but there arent any errors so i'll take i t!

oh wait its because of how i setup the skips

[scenic echo]

How does your mod detect when the server is lagging?

[shadow iris]

runs at 60hz and compares some stuff with gettime or getunitytime I forget exactly

but it times at what would be the frame time of 60 fps

so if the server dips below that, that means it's lagging

but if it outright freezes then it doesn't detect

so its only good for comparatively small lag like repairing a big structure, spawning structures in build mode, respawning with a medium-large vehicle

and in those cases where it can detect, I can detect how far behind it is in milliseconds and do different stuff based on that

[scenic echo]

Does it detect when the server runs constantly at for example 50% speed?

[shadow iris]

for example if it lags at all, set the physics speed down depending on how much lag. if the frametime is more than 7ms higher than it should be, then delete all "scrap" structures and pause physics until lag stops

[scenic echo]

Nice

[shadow iris]

no because it uses gettime or getunitytime which are not affected by physics speed. however, if super intense lag happens then that time stops ticking. although I could maybe store previous frame times and compare that when the frametime jumps back to where it should be

the issue with more complicated stuff like cleaning scrap is that the server still has to run that while it's lagging and most of the time, lag is a spike (e.g. calculating a collision) and not a constant thing

so it hardly affects things

but I think it might help for unstable servers where a lag spike could spiral into a bigger issue and eventually crash, ESPECIALLY on high player servers

because it so quickly responds to even small stutters

[scenic echo]

That's nice

[shadow iris]

I should probably update sensitive seats to run at 60hz because currently I think it runs at 10hz

and I still need to fix getting locked out of repairing in no repair tokens

[near parcel]

Spamming errors also lags the game

[shadow iris]

how much lag does it cause? its less than 10 errors (usually 1-3) per lag spike which isn't all the time

[near parcel]

Probably more than an if/pcall, I/O is slow

[shadow iris]

ah so not that bad but for a heavily optimized mod I might not want them. how performance heavy is it to leave in tm.os.log lines?

[near parcel]

Depends on how much data you try to log/how often

[shadow iris]

here's an example of what I'm logging. maybe an extra couple lines for some other performance or instability warnings- idk

[near parcel]

That's probably fine

[shadow iris]

I might make a server benchmark thing with my new found ability to track performance. that could be interesting

like you say how many players you're going to host for and it runs for 30 minutes or something as soon as that player count is reached and then based on how many stutters and severity determines how good your server hosting is

although that assumes the server doesn't crash

[near parcel]

And that human behavior will be consistent and reproducible

[regal bear]

I've updated Track Creator Plus with new features and fixes. More Info:
#1242291936715608205 message

[shadow iris]

i still havent found what causes that error but now the logs are funnier

seems like it only triggers that error when the structure has a seat/anchorpin in it

so it might be the goto im using

yup! its that goto... but whyy

oh maybe when it gotos then it gets block again incorrectly

the errors magically went away after trying one of my old solutions a second time so i guess its fixed now

[scenic echo]

Are you using vscode in dark mode? It feels weird seeing it since i use light mode

[radiant lion]

Vs code is by default on dark mode

[scenic echo]

I know, i just like it on light mode so i don't fall asleep

[radiant lion]

Is your discord also in light mode?

[scenic echo]

Nope, it's on dark mode

Discord is just better in dark mode

The colors of names on white mode are really hard to read

[topaz arrow]

are colors in a float? or in some other weird ass number format?

[shadow iris]

rgb

(r, g, b) iirc or something similar

[topaz arrow]

no i mean the color R, color G and color B. how are they rounded, how many digits do they support, etc

[shadow iris]

well if it's rgb it's probably integer 0-255

[topaz arrow]

in the new version it gets rounded 0-1, but in the old one it didnt have such limits. rn im testing sth, but it isnt going well

[shadow iris]

what new version?

[topaz arrow]

like new game version

the new update

[topaz arrow]

huh? thats... not what i found. do floats lose bits that are used for digits if the exponent gets too big or too small?

[near parcel]

no, but floats are stored in scientific notation with limited precision for the mantissa

[radiant lion]

Anyone remembers what version of lua TM is running?

[cinder spruce]

Im pretty sure its lua 5.2

[radiant lion]

That could be an issue... I'll have to check tomorrow

[near parcel]

5.2

[radiant lion]

Damnit

String.pack and unpack, which as I gather are an extremely easy way to convert floats to bits are 5.3+

Cause supposedly moving the sign bit and the first one of the exponent at the end of the mantissa should be a working, simple option

That would cap the exponent at -1 making the largest possible number ~1 (with a mantissa of all one, basically 0.9...) and the smallest 0, exactly what we need

And losing 2 out of 23 mantissa bits is far from the worst

[near parcel]

you would need to move the first 3 bits (otherwise the largest number would be 1.99999...)

[radiant lion]

Why? 1.1111 is close to 2 yes, but to the power of 2^-1 makes it 1

01111111 in the mantissa should be -1 if I remember floats correctly

[near parcel]

because the mantissa for normalized numbers has an implicit 1. for extra precision (in scientific notation the mantissa always starts with a non-0 digit, but in binary that means the only possible value is 1 and thus there is no need to store it)

[radiant lion]

I know that much... The thing that's not matching up is the exponent

Why is 0111... 2^0 and not 2^-1

[near parcel]

the exponent is represented in biased form with a -127 constant, so 2^127 is actually 2^0 = 1

[radiant lion]

Agh, why

I thought it was using excess notation, what's this

Excess 128, the offset is 128....

[near parcel]

because that means half the exponents are positive and half are negative (0 exponent is reserved for subnormal numbers, and 255 exponent is for infinity/nan)

[radiant lion]

I guess I'll sub one from the exponent, that's still better than losing another bit

Assuming I get to decompose the float into bits

[topaz arrow]

is the coloring function still broken?

[scenic echo]

Pretty sure it still clamps to 1

[topaz arrow]

ye i dont mean that, i mean sometimes the coloring gets screwed up big time

[scenic echo]

Idk

[cinder spruce]

for setprimarycolor yes

[topaz arrow]

well, then something is very wrong in my coloring function....crap

ah, found the issue. apparently, NaN cannot be used as a valid color value

ah yes, changing a secondary color of course makes the primary color green and gives me a red glow around the block....... what?

(im on an old version, i assume this is the "black hole" thingy that was fixed)

[scenic echo]

cool glitch not gonna lie

[topaz arrow]

ye, if not for the fact its supposed to just save the color normally 😭

[shadow iris]

is there a way to disconnect players without banning them? or is that what the kick function already does?

[warm canopy]

That’s what kick does (I think)

We are missing a ban by steamid and steamid get functions

[shadow iris]

ooh i havent even though about steam integration things

i feel like a dynamic and automatically adjusting complexity limit would be both an amazing and terrible idea at the same time

is it possible to detect whether an individual block/structure is in build mode?

[warm canopy]

https://trailmakers.ludixi.com/info/?function=tm.players.GetPlayerStructuresInBuild

[shadow iris]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1304450414342836327/1312239565888684123/attachment.gif

[shadow iris]

yes but for my mod i am checking all of each player's structures for whether theyre scrap, how would i use this to detect structures that aren't in build mode?

ideally because this is a performance/stability mod, i need this to run insanely quick

oh i wonder if gravity applies to build mode structures, cause maybe i can check velocity and if its perfectly 0 then dont remove

[warm canopy]

When someone enters build mode with a structure save the current structure data, then check it against all the players structures, the ones that don’t match the buildmode structures data get removed

[shadow iris]

When someone enters build mode with a structure save the current structure data
what about unconnected blocks in build mode?

[warm canopy]

Aren’t all blocks in buildmode considered one structure?

[shadow iris]

let me lay out what i'm trying to do and what the current issue is, i think thats unclear right now
i am trying to clean up structures that:

• aren't in build mode
• do not have a seat or anchor pin on board

the issue is that because unconnected blocks are treated as a separate structure and often don't have a seat/anchor, they get cleared, and make building in laggy conditions nearly impossible

[warm canopy]

The get all structures in build mode apparently gets more than 1

So it should be in theory just a simple comparison?

[shadow iris]

this might work but i fear it could be rather performance intensive (relatively) so i'll try to get my speed check idea to work before trying this

[warm canopy]

If the velocity works then that might faster

[shadow iris]

hey wait it might actually be working lol

[warm canopy]

Actually velocity won’t work because it requires player seated

[shadow iris]

GetSpeed() doesn't work without a seated player? but why would it be under modstructure then

oh wtf

devs why

[warm canopy]

I guess you could maybe cheese it by comparing rotation of the structure compared to the world, structures not in build mode are likely not to be exactly aligned with the axis like build mode

[radiant lion]

That's what we all wonder... Time for you to derive that

Btw, are you worried about all unconnected blocks or only the ones in build mode

Cause you could just... Not delete scrap when in build mode, do it once when they enter, then they as long as they stay in they won't make any more

[shadow iris]

only unconnected blocks in build mode. the point of what im doing is to clean up pieces of scrap/wreckage on the ground

[shadow iris]

this is supposed to run once when the server is detected lagging, although preventative measures may be good

[radiant lion]

I see

[shadow iris]

also i see complexity is not updated when blocks are disposed/destroyed in build mode

devs!!!

oh i wonder if forces (center of mass, thrust, that stuff) are updated

[radiant lion]

Thinking about it this has a couple flaws, mainly if you bring a build without a seat in build mode it will still get deleted

[shadow iris]

i might add 1x1 eyeballs to the list of "protected" blocks so that it has compatibility with custom missles mod

[radiant lion]

So rotation as terror suggested is probably for the best, X and y should never have decimal points in build mode

[radiant lion]

That is, assuming the missile mod works

[shadow iris]

GetRotation() is fine right? local space though

this should work right?

ofc use actual thing if [0] is wrong

which it probably is tbh

ye figured it out, it should be rotation.y right..?

ayo

now i spawn some scrap out in the world

[radiant lion]

Ah, right, forgot about that

Use .Forward

[shadow iris]

https://tenor.com/view/еда-gif-15939893924390891947

[shadow iris]

just .forward? nothing else?

[radiant lion]

As in ModBlock.Forward()

Should be

Since get rotation is local will always return multiples of 90

Unless that was only blocks... Agh, I haven't modded in a while

[shadow iris]

hmm how would i detect the decimals

brain went bleh again

[radiant lion]

Module of 1, should be

So if n%1==0 should detect if the build is in build mode

Assuming ModStructure.GetRotation() works properly

[shadow iris]

it doesnt like me using goto but im gonna try it again anyway because 🖕

🖕

actually i dont need to but it would be more performant if that could be used

[shadow iris]

it worked !!!

[radiant lion]

Great

[shadow iris]

im not sure whats going on with the modvector log values but it did what i wanted it to do so 👍
it is exactly intended

[radiant lion]

You never know how it is with mods anymore ¬_¬

[shadow iris]

nah actually i looked at it again, you said ==0 means its in build mode; its working as intended lol

the one with the ~=0 is the scraps on the ground

[radiant lion]

Comment still applies to every other mods

Mainly mine... :p

[shadow iris]

do you remember what the pfb name for the 1x1 eyeball is?

[radiant lion]

Not a clue

Ridicolas' block editor of just the missile mod (set to use another block then select an eye) should tell you

[shadow iris]

holy shit my block edit mod is RAGING

ah its because its doing loads of calculations on every structure and theres like 40 of them because of the plane

[near parcel]

gotos are almost never a good idea

[shadow iris]

hmm i just thought of a better way to calculate frametime

just count the time passed between updates rather than if +1 to a variable happened in a given timeframe

[near parcel]

what were you doing when this is a thing?

[shadow iris]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1304450414342836327/1312239565888684123/attachment.gif

something very dumb tbh, but it did work well enough

LETS GO
I SOLVED LAG

Infinity server fps 🔥🔥🔥

[regal bear]

Nice work 🙂

[shadow iris]

as it turns out, this doesnt detect when the server itself lags... so my janky method was actually better!

peak

[shadow iris]

i think the physspeed formula broke

im not sure how accurate these numbers are but i will try it in multiplayer

player joining seems to break this new measurement system

at one point it was like 62ms behind?

[near parcel]

By itself it doesn't, you need to compare it against the target delta time and determine if there is a significant difference

[shadow iris]

@dusty pelican, @serene magnet has a boost thing going on

i have been informed you guys are collabing

[dusty pelican]

yeah that's the idea

how do you make an invincible block mod

[scenic echo]

i don't think it's possible because of the health functions being broken

[dusty pelican]

wdym?

[scenic echo]

ModBlock.SetHealth(hp) isn't consistant, it sometimes works but most of the time it doesn't

[scenic echo]

also ModBlock.GetStartHealth() does not give you the right health of a block

[dusty pelican]

weird

[radiant lion]

@near parcel if i have a float like this 0 0....0 0....010 does it get converted to 0 or is there a chance it still works?

so exponent all 0, but not the mantissa (i am guessing i probably shouldn't do that, not to have some unexpected behaviour)

[dusty pelican]

is there a list of block ids?
if not do you know the id of the ski

[scenic echo]

PFB_WaterSki

[dusty pelican]

im trying to set the bouyancy but it isnt working

[scenic echo]

it might be PFB_WaterSki(server) or you need to be in build mode

[dusty pelican]

what does that mean to be in build mode

[scenic echo]

have the ski in build mode

[dusty pelican]

i did

[near parcel]

that corresponds with a subnormal number. It works, but doesn't have as much precision as normal numbers

[shadow iris]

need to be in build mode but it seemed to work for me when we tried it out on my wheel buoyancy mod

[radiant lion]

it ended up getting treated as 0, but so is this, so idk anymore

ok, this should have absolutely not been converted to 0

[near parcel]

post your code

[radiant lion]

just by looking at the code you should lsee that n2_5 is just n2 after being put into and taken out of a block

wait, no, little mess up

so they supposedly should be the same, same could be said for n3 and n4 which are just the two from before, but decompressed

yet they are not

(if using the mod go in build mode, select a block and put whatever value you want in the field, the top one is said value encoded and decoded, the bottom one is after getting put as block color)

any exponent of 01101100 or less of value seems to round everything down to 0

[serene magnet]

Huh?

I've been summoned

[near parcel]

line 23 shouldn't be +127 instead of +126? If the numeric value has an exponent of 0, you should encode 127

[radiant lion]

so i tought

but like this it actually works

[shadow iris]

horma wanted to do mariokart thing and i was like "oh antimatters doing stuff" and then i was informed that you are working with horma
oopsie

[radiant lion]

this is the print float fields of 2, which seems correct to me

[shadow iris]

whats all this floating point madness for? i lost track of that

[radiant lion]

a couple mods used the block color to store data

before you could put any number and it worked, it stored a whole float, now it's clamped between 0 and 1

so we are working on a way to slightly compress a float so it fits in the 0-1 range

[serene magnet]

Indeed

[shadow iris]

is there a difference in accuracy/performance between tracking tm.os.GetRealtimeSinceStartup() between updates, and deltatimes?

[near parcel]

no, only difference is that getdeltatime gives you the time between update calls (doesn't change within a single update call) while the other gives you the time since startup (updates within a single update call)

[shadow iris]

and what is the effect of this?

oh i see, it shouldn't matter too much because i am only ever comparing time once and at the very start of the update

[radiant lion]

ok, so... after more testing i can say... we are kinda scewed

the exponent has to stay between 01101100 and 01111111, extremes excluded

wich makes the range really shallow

time to lose more of the mantissa....

like, another 2 bits
also, for some reason the last few mantissa bits start to get unstable near the 01111111 range... so i am a bit worried

[shadow iris]

ah well the major collision had a big number so ill say that realtime method is good enough
im pretty sure unity pauses the stopwatch when lag occurs though because it should report maybe 1000ms if so

[topaz arrow]

Where can we start a petition or sth to get the colors back (or better yet a big update to the mod api)?

[shadow iris]

(or better yet a big update to the mod api)?
we all know this aint happening (frans and jonas step up 🙏🙏)

[topaz arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/deny-a-dream-old-man-dont-say-no-almost-heroes-can-you-deny-an-old-man-his-dream-gif-25154263

[radiant lion]

we should sneak in their office at night and do it ourselves

[topaz arrow]

DIY?

You know, if it works it aint broken...

[shadow iris]

well no because thats flashbulb's excuse to not fix everything
technically set color works (half the time)

[topaz arrow]

Alright, then:

1. i take that back
2. feels like half the api isnt working 😭

[shadow iris]

2.1) it feels like that because its true

[radiant lion]

it's not half the time

it's on every block that doesn't have special features

so you canlculate exactly how often it works

[shadow iris]

ffs im having a hard time making singleplayer lag enough to trigger lag responses

[radiant lion]

change color of wing? fine, it has a flap!? not fine

[shadow iris]

(it needs to be >7ms but not pause unity's tracking of time, to trigger structure cleanup)

[shadow iris]

https://tenor.com/view/sukhoi-su-33-carrier-nvm-nevermind-gif-10669220711513128211

[topaz arrow]

worse yet, its the important part. who cares if i can or cant do vector operations, as long as i can read x,y,z and create a vector, ill be fine by rewriting it myself. but you cant rewrite setHealth() or SetColor() and shit

[radiant lion]

not with that attitude

[radiant lion]

anyhow, thingy work now... at least it works about as well as i'd expect it to

[near parcel]

nowhere, the colors were clamped for a good reason

[radiant lion]

lost 5 mantissa bits :(

[topaz arrow]

ok, so where can i start a petition to get a replacement for that? or anything else connected with the API that would actually help in mod creation? (also i think it could have been done better, or at least in a way which wouldnt break everything connected with saving data to blocks via colors)

[shadow iris]

#1123915629653667943

[near parcel]

^

[radiant lion]

i mean, if this sacrifice brings the devs to implement a proper data storage option i'd say it's worthed

[near parcel]

also i think it could have been done better, or at least in a way which wouldnt break everything connected with saving data to blocks via colors
no it couldn't. Saving data in blocks has always been a hack relying on undefined behavior that could cause a ton of issues. Fixing those issues means preventing the undefined behavior

[radiant lion]

they didn't expect us to use color for that in the first place

[topaz arrow]

oh ye, definitely, question is whether we will get that

[radiant lion]

a man can hope

[topaz arrow]

just clamping it from -1 to 1 instead of 0 to 1 would have saved a TON of hassle. sure, you still get clamped a lot, but you do not get enormous problems simply because you want to save a float that is potentially negative

[shadow iris]

this is working amazingly omg

[near parcel]

negative values are still undefined behavior. The only thing that makes sense is either integers 0 to 255 (most common method) or floats between 0 and 1 that get mapped to integers 0 to 255

[topaz arrow]

the problem described in the patchnotes, which therefore i assume is the addressed problem/concern, was about invalid color values looking crazy, so unless valuse of -1 to 0 looked crazy, i dont see why they couldnt have been kept in
GENERAL - Fixed externally modified Blueprints containing invalid colour values looking crazy when spawned in.

[near parcel]

anything outside of [0, 1] is an invalid color

[radiant lion]

honestly i do believe most invalid colors probably didn't cause that, but without having one of such cursed blocks and doing some testing in 2.0 it can't be said, this was the fastest solution without doing that

[topaz arrow]

yes, and? again, i wanna point out that the problem is "invalid colour values looking crazy when spawned in", so i dont see why they couldnt have been kept in unless they were the ones looking crazy

[topaz arrow]

made the suggestion

[near parcel]

invalid colors lead to undefined behavior. If your program has undefined behavior, that's a bug you should fix, because it will eventually become a problem. Fixing all invalid colors was the only way of guaranteeing the issue was fixed.

[topaz arrow]

if the idea was to fix invalid colors, it should have said so, and it shouldnt have mentioned the look of those

[near parcel]

fixing all invalid colors was the only way to fix the crazy colors without a very expensive investigation

[topaz arrow]

very expensive investigation
the investigation in question: check the blueprints with weird colors, see what those used, limit around that.
i feel that i should say, that i get trying to just fix bugs like that (at least somewhat, since i also find a lot of bugs cool), but since a big part of the modding api is not working properly, then any action that takes away the ability of modders to do stuff feels like an attempted assasination of modding as a whole.

and this [#1196793172429394050 message] just seems... like an awful way to go. sure, getting more assets is very much welcome, but i dont think thats what the focus should be on. idk, it just gives me a very bad impression, i dont know how else to put it

[near parcel]

the investigation in question: check the blueprints with weird colors, see what those used, limit around that.
then it becomes a game of whack-a-mole as new problematic values are discovered. If you want to avoid that, you either need to fix all undefined behavior or go in a rabbit hole to figure out what exactly causes the issue, probably deep within unity's render pipeline, and that's very expensive

but since a big part of the modding api is not working properly, then any action that takes away the ability of modders to do stuff feels like an attempted assasination of modding as a whole.
blame the people who want to ruin everyones fun for that

and this [⁠modding⁠Requests for spawnables objects] just seems... like an awful way to go. sure, getting more assets is very much welcome, but i dont think thats what the focus should be on. idk, it just gives me a very bad impression, i dont know how else to put it
adding more assets is relatively cheap on development, as they are already made for the game

[shadow iris]

at first i sided with you regarding invalid colors, but i switch to alvaro's side because this, without doubt, is unintended behavior being leveraged, and it shouldn't really be expected that unintended behavior will be maintained

[shadow iris]

adding more assets is relatively cheap on development, as they are already made for the game
adding onto this, it is most likely easier to add and test new prefabs- which already use a well established system- than making a whole new system, testing edge cases and whatnot, fixing those, repeat, all while working on a big update of their own. modding is only available for pc-steam and the rest of the game is available for everyone, it's not going to have the same effort put into it

[topaz arrow]

by unintended behavior that shouldnt be expected to be maintained do you mean the black hole coloring or storing values in colors?
i dont blame the devs for fixing the black hole weirdness

[shadow iris]

storing values in colors and using out-of-normal-bound limits in general

[warm canopy]

Modding api does seriously need looking into when devs get time. Hasn’t moved forward in probably a year and in some cases some functions are now broken that originally worked.

[shadow iris]

this aged like milk

[cinder spruce]

do we have a modding bug reports thread? i kinda feel like any that do pop up just end up buried in #bug-reports or not even reported due to how little the API has been touched.

[shadow iris]

iirc we're supposed to put them in here but it kind of has the same problem as #bug-reports

[regal bear]

I think we are supposed to put them in #1123915629653667943

I know reporting bugs in a vote-features category seems strange but I seem to recall the devs asking us to do that.

[shadow iris]

let's get a central gigantic list of every bug and very major missing thing for Flashbulb "Mr. Modder Developer" Frans

[formal crane]

I made "Bug report" tag for both #1126842222898315274 and #1123915629653667943

[shadow iris]

thank you!!

[formal crane]

#1123915629653667943 would be best place as it will be the main place we review when task planning.

[shadow iris]

what will the tag in #1126842222898315274 be used for then? non-urgent or unconfirmed bugs?

[formal crane]

When you want to keep a bug and discuss it :p

EDIT: I'll delete the tag haha

[shadow iris]

should each individual bug be its own post, or should the backlog of bugs be in one mega post?

[cinder spruce]

i'd say keep it on separate posts, a single thread might get cluttered by conversations and what would be the point of making the tag in the first place?

[shadow iris]

yes but I fear that would make too many posts because there are that many bugs I think

[formal crane]

It is a good question and I don't have any good answers!

I think if they are collected nicely in a list it is a little more chewable for management to see the scope of needs.

Listed into "critical", "nice to have", etc. could make it also better as we could see what to prioritise.

Categorising them into "assets", "sounds", etc. it not really needed. Just how much people want it fixed.

[shadow iris]

oh, and

where do prefab object bugs go? these might be different than api bugs

[cinder spruce]

ok maybe its time to actually gather up every issue in one spot

[formal crane]

I think broken prefabs deserves its own list with pictures or similiar.

[shadow iris]

like how you made a pfb suggestions post?

[scenic echo]

I think we should have a thread in modding for making the list and also report them in modding suggestions individually

[formal crane]

Yes 🙂

[shadow iris]

I think that concludes my question and concerns for today. I'll say this for all of us, thank you for giving the future of modding a sense of direction. good night!

heyy when was this added...

[formal crane]

Modding is hard for us to measure success in. So it is scary to invest money into.

But yeah, for now it is words on my side... There is just very little time and the people who knows how to work with modding in Trailmakers just have very little time to do so.

This week I am onboarding a few new-ish employees to expand the knowledge a little.

[formal crane]

Ages ago

[shadow iris]

that is very exciting! is it Johannes?

[cinder spruce]

i don't know how often johannes checks the modding channel of all places xd

[regal bear]

Listed into "critical", "nice to have", etc. could make it also better as we could see what to prioritise.

That is likely to be extremely subjective based on what each modder selfishly wants fixed right now 😂

Anyway - thanks, we'll do our best 🙂

[shadow iris]

what is the case for broken prefabs in ways like broken functionality? should special functionality glitches go in its own thread?
for examples,

• PFB_Runner-Monkey's explosion immediately plays when the prefab is spawned (he still functions just fine afterwards though :D)
• Explosive salvage are converted to regular salvage
• PFB_Barrel and PFB_ExplosiveBarrel cannot be fully despawned
• PFB_RingofFire particle and light source positions aren't scaled correctly

[shadow iris]

made a thread for reporting bugged PFBs
https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/1369074385410982050

[shadow iris]

there is no way to remove an individual block from a structure in build mode. this means i cannot mod in a banned blocks system that runs within build mode. i am unhappy now.
@dusty pelican are you hearing this

[dusty pelican]

why not just count the number and kick someone if they have the wrong amount

it's not clean but it would do the trick

[shadow iris]

are we perma banning people for using the wrong block without any warning...?

[dusty pelican]

do you have any better ideas

[shadow iris]

being really angry and exploding them or killing them (killplayer function barely works lol) after 5s out of build mode

[dusty pelican]

oh

[scenic echo]

Being able to remove blocks from build mode and outside it, would be a great feature

[shadow iris]

that and being able to control block bans and whether the host can control block bans/power core limit/player invinciblility

actually

block ban and block lock

block ban is like the host option

block lock hides it like in stranded

[scenic echo]

This would be great

[shadow iris]

hey also might as well add a whole UI engine and preset ui tools like unlock block pop-up like stranded or the campaign finish screens

custom minimap and checkpoints too why not

yk just give us everything ngl

new employees gotta lock tf in fr

[shadow iris]

what's the availability for modding updates and fixes in pvp part 2 looking like?

[topaz arrow]

UI.getPixel and UI.setPixel when?

[formal crane]

True! And I understand that; but in the end it is us who picks and what we can fit in at the given time... But it helps to know where the peoples vote are on.

[formal crane]

Still just broken prefabs.

[formal crane]

Personal vote on this one 😉

[formal crane]

None at the moment. But talks are still ongoing.

[shadow iris]

I remember at some point prefabs were being pictured for something on the wiki. that was all manual right? should I make a mod to setup the prefabs, the camera, and a background automatically?

[shadow iris]

I believe in you, you can do it!
-# although I would prioritize making the stuff we have actually work... spawnables, while they are cool, aren't many of our priorities- and I'm saying that as a map maker

[shadow iris]

pitch to them that if we were given proper map making tools or assets (for example: surface properties/wheel-grip, cliff overhangs like stranded and rally, heightmap input ||(I heard that the game actually uses a heightmap texture and just generates a terrain for it (this would explain grid like cliffs on diagonals and why stranded uses an extra separate model on top of caves))||, world-space(?) tiling and blending ||(like high seas, airborne, space sector rock spawnables)||) that we very well could make maps that are on par or surpassing dev quality, and all that's needed from you guys is the tools to be made for us, and the maps roll in

free, (in theory) high quality content which could very well surpass flashbulb's own work

and the (PC steam) community is very happy with all the extra content they can play and (with a lower bar to entry) create. there is potential for a lot more content about tm- playing new maps, tutorials/guides for it

MapMakers2025 would be absolutely cracked with these tools

I'm definitely not biased as a map maker trust me bro
but seriously I have some ideas, like that offroad checkpoint campaign, which could actually be made possible at all with these tools. even just surface properties and better mesh/texture importing would go a long way

it seems like a decent system to have a texture for the terrain shape (idk about the surface properties though...) and then use Trailmappers for the prefabs
I suppose we would also need water and sea floor customization for that- but that is more fit for #1123915629653667943

[scenic echo]

I wonder how hard it is to make a trackmania nation forever track in trailmakers

[formal crane]

It was my intention; but the annoying part was figuring out the bounds of the objects in order to zoom out properly.

[formal crane]

We constantly change the terrain. It is very different between every level. You might be thinking about traditional Unity Terrain system which uses heightmap yes.

[shadow iris]

i was thinking I could make 3-5 size presets and switch between them in a UI window

[shadow iris]

We constantly change the terrain. It is very different between every level.
what does this mean for custom heightmaps?

is updating the terrain/heightmap in the context of a mod possible? if it is possible, then I'd guess that it's out of the scope for pvp pt2's modding time

[paper bone]

Or just use a raycast to position the camera at a appropriate distance

[formal crane]

it means we dont have 1 method that works with heightmap. I believe we using some custom solution for it at this point. I mean you can always implement a new heightmap solution but we prefer using whatever system we already have.

[formal crane]

Right now there is nothing for PVP pt2 🙂

But I can say that I have added a few spawnables the other day to the.. thing.. coming after pvp part 2

and maybe some other things, nothing grand, maybe some fixes 🙂

[formal crane]

It is just some of the prefabs are absolutely massive lol but yeah you could definintely do it.

[radiant lion]

Honestly as long as we have the power of making tris (technically not required) and changing material that would already be plenty to make custom height maps (tho vanilla terrain will still exist and you'll can't directly use TM textures).
I am considering making new terrain virtually identical if not better than editing the existing one, after all all the objects on normal maps will stay, so placing new terrain elsewhere is likely better.
That is assuming trailmapper adds a tool for it, which could allow to paint terrain with materials, create a whole texture with given material textures, ecc..

[paper bone]

Terror soul already has a mod that generates a terrain from a heightmap i think

[shadow iris]

yeah as I said in my long rant thing

[shadow iris]

leak the modding changes please
it's not like it's going to spoil the main content of the update...

[formal crane]

Needs the QA stamp before I dare 🙂

[cinder spruce]

hey uh,
if we actually do end up wanting stuff to be fixed in the modding API, we do actually have to make some reports on stuff. I personally am not too well versed in lua or working with this API, probably enough to figure out what's wrong with certain things. so if we do actually want to expect something soon we should really start now.0

[shadow iris]

yes, been working on spawnable reports (i need to do some special functions reports as i excluded those initially) and sebi has been doing a couple function reports

at some point ill do a report for KillPlayer()

[shadow iris]

oh god did i just discover the cause of the KillPlayer() bug. if so i HATE that

i HATE that

NOO ITS ACTUALLY REAL

OH GOD

[regal bear]

do tell

[shadow iris]

players are marked as invincible if theyre in an "enclosed" seat (gokart isn't enclosed, armored seat is)

which speaking of,
https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/1370539379260522516

[regal bear]

ah I see

[shadow iris]

lemme test if this is consistent with my mods

@scenic echo i figured out why KillPlayer sometimes doesnt work and i hate it

[regal bear]

So you'd have to destroy the seat first I guess

[shadow iris]

or maybe i teleport them into a mod-spawned open seat and then kill them

[scenic echo]

WHYYYY, it works and it is a solution, BUT WHY

[scenic echo]

i'm thinking of making a thread where we can put all the bug reports and then sort them by priority

[scenic echo]

maybe terror soul can do something like he did for the spawnables

[shadow iris]

that's called voting for mod features... or #1123915629653667943

highest votes is priority

[midnight grotto]

I get that its the steepness of the terrain that determines whether there's grass or dirt/rock. But how come it's so different from Trailmappers to Trailmakers?

[shadow iris]

because trailmappers is pretty much just estimating what trailmakers does. same reason the sunlight color in trailmappers is different
also... #1226065444364877835?

[midnight grotto]

No quick fix then. Oh well. Thanks for explaining. ^^

[shadow iris]

that cabin looks really nice btw

[midnight grotto]

Thank you! I feel like I have to hold back on the details so it doesn't start chugging. I really have no idea where the limit would be. I assume plants and trees are the most taxing assets?

[shadow iris]

custom models and especially textures are very taxing in load times

besides that you really can go crazy

[midnight grotto]

Oh, that's promising. I guess I'll just keep building, and then I can extra details at the end.

[scenic echo]

can you move spawned blueprints with the modding api?

[radiant lion]

Yes by add force, no by set position

[topaz arrow]

Me adding 937MN of force to move a build by 5m in one tick:

[radiant lion]

"ModObject.Exists()" seems to always return true... either that or both "ModObject.Despawn()" and "tm.physics.DespawnObject(GameObject)" aren't doing a good enough job

[shadow iris]

i wonder if i can make a mod that forces the player out of build mode

to bandaid fix bugs which softlock you in build mode

for example this one

[scenic echo]

explode the seat, then KILL

[shadow iris]

no because this is in build mode

the issue is that build mode is active while the cinematic camera is

so i get locked in a hybrid in/out of build mode state

thus

exit build mode by force

[scenic echo]

i read out of seat instead of out of build mode

[shadow iris]

the second i stop playing it becomes super close istg
im actually op

rahh

the 6 player lobby is having a great time

i cant close server

im trapped here

save me

get me out

let me out

set me free

i know all the secrets you keep

i

i wont be

i wont be your casualty

[scenic echo]

you shall be in the prison, created by you, for eternity

[shadow iris]

damnit frans and johannes got tired of me begging for modding update so theyve trapped me as the host of the most stable (>5 hours without crashing) server hosting to ever exist

[radiant lion]

just enable the missile mod, i heard it can solve such issues

[shadow iris]

by crashing the game

🔥

[radiant lion]

yeah

[shadow iris]

i should try that

[radiant lion]

freedom

[shadow iris]

i should set physics speed to 1000%

boom

"oh guys i accidentally enabled a broken mod i was working on"

IM FREE

@sharp lantern SET ME FREE

"now restart"

THANK YOU BRO 🙏🙏🙏

time to work on force out of build mode mod

[scenic echo]

or you can make cool rocket

[midnight grotto]

Making a large island with lots of dried up river beds to drive and crawl inn. Will be done in 3-5 business years.

[shadow iris]

this looks like wheel collision hell ngl. i would use simpler rock models but if you cant find any then it is what it is

[midnight grotto]

It sort of is, yeah. It's still kinda fun, but you do slide and bounce around a bit. I'm gonna continue making this, but it honestly might just be shite. At least until they decide to update the game with better wheel physics.

[worn moss]

would someone be so kind and do the "SPA" racetrack map? pretty please

[shadow iris]

i desperately need deleting pfb/map objects right now- bro wtf is THIS 😭😭😭😭

[formal crane]

This! Very important 🙂 We have some very old backlogs I am unsure if I can even recommend.

If we would have some fresh reports that would be AMAZING.

[formal crane]

Staright to bug report :p

[shadow iris]

first I gotta remember the bugs I found... then I gotta not be lazy

ah not a bug but certainly quality of life. update block statistics like weight and aerodynamics live based on the blocks actual values

that and getdragall

gotta remember that for the afternoon

[radiant lion]

While Frans is here I'll mention, if you haven't marked it yet, setColorSecondary not working on any "special" block (any with inputs it seems), and colorPrimary possibly not working at all, but I'd need to do some testing before I can give a concrete reason

[shadow iris]

to #1123915629653667943/🦗 Bug Report you go fine sir

[regal bear]

I feel like there's quite a few bugs that we reported for you guys many years ago that are not yet fixed - some are day 1 bugs. Surely they are actually logged effectively somewhere and would be somewhat prioritised over new fresh bug reports?

[formal crane]

If you talking about "the" PDF, then that is still going around. Multiple of the reported items on that is either fixed, or cannot be reproduced - There is surely a few things in there that needs fixing as well.

Our own backlog is absolutely massive, and it is hard to prioritise for us other than "FIX EVERYTHING", hence why I am doing a call for help here 🙂

And if you can help us confirm that they still exist + great reproduction (Eg. mod included with steps to reproduce) then that's going to increase the chances of it getting fixed.

Modding QA is extremely hard as we solely depend on Programmers having extra time to test everything thoroughly + you guys. But in reality.. You are the ones who are using the to great degree, so you will have much better sense than we have time to at the moment.

Reporting the bugs in async chat is also hell. There is no way to find things again + I don't sit and stare at this thread all day and log every bug.

So that's why we are trying to get a little bit order and put things into individual threads. It will be much easier to point and link to individual bugs and discuss them.

[formal crane]

Just did a pass to start this;

Has Thread

• AddUILabel (among other UI elements) with +82 characters (or something like that) crashes the session (Frans)
• PFB_BlockHunt (the blue beacon) spawns with a horrible constant synthetic sound which is unbearable once you spawn a number of them close together. It also spawns with a weird angled yellow ring which it never used to have.
• KillPlayer does not work after some time [Discord](#1370539379260522516 message)
• Spawning any explosives causes crashes with late join [Discord](#1368997534307057785 message)
• Custom cameras do not work when player's vehicle camera is set to orbit or sticky orbit [discord](#1371929672228798504 message)
• SetHealth is not reliant [Discord](#1368999049188872204 message)

Missing Thread / Reproducible steps

• PFB_Barrrel does not always despawn [discord](#1140936220487192587 message)
• SetIsTrigger removes hit box collisions but does not remove raycast collisions [discord](#1140936220487192587 message)
• Updating UI element for 10 minutes crashes the game [Discord](#1361406446612381757 message)
• Changing drag makes the game bug out [Discord](#1140936220487192587 message)

Very unclear details

• SetIsTrigger does nothing [discord](#1140936220487192587 message)
• Mesh Import discards vertices? LOD issues? [Discord](#1226065444364877835 message)

.
I can also let you know one of our project managers recently messaged me and asked for a prioritised list of modding wish list. Hence why I am pushing for your help lately 🙂

[cinder spruce]

the KillPlayer function may be related to this
https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/1370539379260522516

[formal crane]

Cheers, changed link and moved it

[topaz arrow]

#1371929672228798504 message
is this the kind of thread and mod you meant? and does that work as a bug report of the issue with the camera?

[radiant lion]

i should be able to make some basic mods for a few of these in the upcoming days, tho stuff like drag is just so unreliable.. even with a test mod it's not gonna be easy to see

tho for now i'm only able to say that the barrel not despawning is likely tied to how the game handles the prefab, expecially with the explosive barrel that respawns when blown up (and i think normal when far away), don't have inside info so i can't say if it's just despawning the spawner, if there even is one, or similar

[formal crane]

The Barrel thing I experience myself as a single player. But yes, they could be related with the order of how we cleanup potentially.

[formal crane]

This is very awesome and makes everything much easier if we can replicate easier; so yes VERY NICE! 😄

And as alvro mentioned; a zip with the modfolder is more than enough. No need to upload to steam.

[shadow iris]

im not sure whether this is a bug or intended but the session option for player invulnerability completely overrides the mod based toggles. if this were to be fixed I think the best solution would be to have mods override the session option and maybe to also add functions to modify such session options

[shadow iris]

can someone help test weight/mass of custom models? seems to barely affect the object.

this example is from a drop of 100 units.
0 vs 100000 mass (via tm.physics.SpawnCustomObjectRigidbody)

i would expect an object with 500000kg of weight to fall a bit faster than an object with 0kg(?) of weight and be noticeably harder to push than the 0kg one

[midnight grotto]

Higher mass would be able to push through the atmosphere easier than an identical object of less mass.

[shadow iris]

fall a bit faster not slower sorry

[near parcel]

Fall speed doesn't depend on mass

[shadow iris]

the heavier object did fall slightly faster though?

and they feel about the same to push

[near parcel]

The only thing that should be higher is terminal speed, not acceleration

[shadow iris]

my logic is that if the shipping crates are heavier and they are harder to push than a barrel, that making a custom asset heavier, it should be harder to push. and thats not what im seeing to a noticeable degree

[formal crane]

You testing aerodynamics and other components. Not weight.
See how it affects other physical objects; eg big plate with suspension and wheels on or something

[shadow iris]

regarding mesh import issues: discarded faces happens when there are more than 32767 faces I think. there was also some corruption bugs with very high complexity models where semi random vertices get connected and cause massively incorrect triangles (something above 100k vertices)

I need to do some testing again because I forgot whether it was faces or vertices that were capped. it's probably faces?

[shadow iris]

see what I said to Alvaro: pushing the object with a vehicle feels almost identical regardless of what weight I give it

and no matter how heavy I make it, I can't get an object to act the same as a default shipping container prefab

[shadow iris]

from memory, in order of most to least wanted:

• A chance for our hopes and dreams to not be mercilessly shattered
• Function fixes (e.g. KillPlayer issues, "color issues", etc...)
• Custom asset importing optimizations
  • Models and textures import painfully slowly and especially in multiplayer
• Improved custom model collision with wheel visual deformation and entering build mode or repairing
• Transparent custom textures
• Custom model surface properties like grass/mud/sand/snow (how would this be done? a texture?)
• Mod UI update (hey Frans I think you might know this one already)
• More extensive block modification function set
  • Things like setting powercore count
  • Control server-wide block bans and block unlock state
    • Block unlock state: whether a block is available at all, like how blocks are missing in the builder before unlocked in Stranded
  • Live updating statistics like weight and aerodynamic displays
    • Things like weight values ||(per block and total structure weight)|| and COG aren't changed when a block is modified
  • Per-player block bans and block unlock state
  • Low priority: getdrag function. the only use cases I can come up with are for the wiki and for random little aerodynamics edits for racing or something
• More control over player input and menus
  • Forcing a player to enter/exit build mode
  • Forcing cursor unlock state
  • etc... (need further research)
• Graphics controls
  • Fog start/end
  • Fog color (how would this work with sky colors though?)
  • Render distance
    • Toggle in settings whether mods can control render distance (for low-end users)
  • Post processing
    • Things that the cinematic camera feature can already edit
      • DOF
  • Water surface opacity/color/target height
  • Underwater fog start/end/color
  • Sky type (Pioneers, High Seas, Space Sector, Airborne, Classic)
  • Sky top/horizon colors
• Spawnable bug fixes
• New spawnables
• Normal/specular/metallic(?) maps for custom textures

People, let me know if I missed anything (I sure did) and if I got priorities wrong or anything. I've tried to be unbiased but my list might be slightly biased towards mapmaking

oh, we can't actually get drag values from blocks. it doesn't have a very real use case but it could be used for wiki numbers I guess? that's kinda low priority tbh

damnit I ran out of characters because of no nitro

alright ive actually ran out of characters for the starter list, that's a great sign

[shadow iris]

@formal crane do you see any issues with this list? not enough detail? no sources? not enough use cases?

there are a couple small things I can't add due to message length limit but one of them is for graphics control: ambient light color/brightness (like how dark caves on Stranded make the ambient light basically 0)

[formal crane]

Mostly that it is absolutely humongous especially considering the resources we have available :p

Priorities perhaps?

[shadow iris]

I tried listing them from most to least wanted... tried

there's a lot... and I think the mapmaker bias crept in a little- my bad

[formal crane]

ah :v Well, maybe we need more people to vouch their thoughts 🙂

[shadow iris]

I think visibility is a small issue too for that. if we got another modder role ping like you did at the start of the prefab suggestions thread, that would boost this process a lot.

I've heard from talking in general land (im not schizophrenic trust) that modding is cool but people don't know where they can put their thoughts on what should be added updated

so I think perhaps maybe even tapping outside of the modding circle could be really useful

[formal crane]

You mean modders or people who use mods?

[shadow iris]

most of the people I saw were not people I recognized from the modding threads. at least a couple of them were console players

I think the console players spoke up mainly when I talked about the state of disrepair that modding was in

[shadow iris]

so to answer your question, they were probably 50/50 normal unmodded players and modding players, or, rarely, console players

AJ would be a good person to talk to about this if he's online at this hour he is very keen on getting a list going

[near parcel]

Irl mass doesn't change acceleration. Increased gravity force is perfectly balanced with the increased inertia

[shadow iris]

alright well, I'll try and make scale of sorts like Frans told me to do

or maybe a crane

[warm canopy]

The backlog is so big with modding now, I think the worry is that when will the next time modding get an update after this planned as if we are talking atleast a year again then different things are more priority than others.

[formal crane]

<@&1123912996406706277>
We just had a little chat; and moving forward with the next update cycle we will go for more healthiness in terms of the current Modding API.

Bug fixes will be prioritises - but to do so we need good reproducible cases and detail information. If (big if!) we have more time, we will reach out about our thoughts on what we can otherwise implement. But right now we see it more fitting fixing the current functionality such that it is reliable for you modders to use.

Please see the following list of our bug list, and help us expand it, make threads with information - I will keep it updated so you can follow along a little. This is not a list of what is being worked on, but rather a list of things we should investigate and move forward with.
#1140936220487192587 message

Let me know how this works 🛠️

[scenic echo]

PFB_Explosion causing crashes has a thread https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/1368997534307057785, i'm also gonna make another test mod with spawning explosions and despawning all spawned objects for it

[scenic echo]

Also ModBlock.SetHealth() is kind of broken, i already made a thread https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/1368999049188872204 and i'm gonna make a test mod for it too

[radiant lion]

meanwhile set color seems to be a lot more unreliable then expected

[regal bear]

Thankyou. I think is the most sensible approach. As much as new features would be great, fixing existing broken ones first makes a lot of sense. I'll add some bug threads soon (hopefully).

[radiant lion]

after some bug testing... i'm more confused than before... some values (like "SetPrimaryColor(0.204,0.7411,0.224)") just don't work, ever, so there seem to be 2 bugs about colros (more details soon... hopefully)

[formal crane]

Are you declaring the values as seperate values, our inserting them directly in SetPrimaryColor?

Eg

local r = 0.204
local g = 0.7411
local b = 0.224
SetPrimaryColor(r,g,b)

vs

SetPrimaryColor(0.204,0.7411,0.224)

And does it make a difference? I have encountered a few oddities in MoonSharp here as it would make some wrong assumptions about input parameters/overload functions.

[scenic echo]

I have made a mod to use while doing the bug in the https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/1368997534307057785 thread for the PFB_Explosion causing crashes with late join bug. I also put instructions on how to replicate it

[formal crane]

Updated this but I am hitting Message limit.

Should I perhapes make a thread on its own and then you can report in there if you have made anything in relation to this? 🙂

Otherwise, if you make the threads and simple tag me there, then I will ensure out internal tracker is updated.

[radiant lion]

sorry, i'm a bit late... neither seem to work

[formal crane]

The internally function looks so naive so will have to do a deep dive on this one later...

Again, if you have a nice and simple little script to test it. I am fine with spamming a button until it happens. But from the sounds of it, it is specific values that dont get saved?

[warm canopy]

Itd be easier at this rate to just have something save values into the blueprint file lol

[radiant lion]

really wish i could say more about this part, but i'm so confused, the only ones that seem to reliably work are black and white

[formal crane]

@warm canopy We considered our options yes. But for now. No new stuff 😉

But it is much more complicated to save data to blueprints via new APIs. (But the last clamping talk, did spawn a bunch of brainstorming)

[radiant lion]

tho i'm sure at least secondary color was working fine the other day... which is enough for saving some data

why is all working properly now....

ok, no, it's not..., at least, not primary, but secondary works

imma go make a thread...

[median cobalt]

Oh neat

[median cobalt]

The function breaks after calling once and has to be reloaded

Probably just a broken persistance or too agressive GBC

(GarBage Collection)

[formal crane]

Tons of bugs in #1123915629653667943 already, but here is the one for this exact one 🙂
https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/1372211286611464344

Feel free to write in there for this specific bug if you have more insights

[median cobalt]

Aye will do

[radiant lion]

not really, it keeps working fine, as long as you only do primary or secondary, as soon as you use both on the same block it all gets messed up

[near parcel]

That's very cursed. In lua those should be equivalent

[formal crane]

I can't remember the exact case but it was something with overload function, where it picked the wrong overload function in a really dumb context.

The example I gave was non-related, thinking of it, and not applicable in what I am talking about here.

[near parcel]

It wasn't working properly for me when i tested your broken float encoder/decoder

[scenic echo]

I have made the mod for bug testing

[regal bear]

Should I perhapes make a thread on its own and then you can report in there if you have made anything in relation to this?

Yes that might be a good option especially if you can pin it at the top.

(Note: I've had messages in topic threads auto-deleted when trying to simply update them - can you perhaps reduce the aggressiveness of the bot?)

[shadow iris]

can someone help test salvage spawnable collision issues? seems like some of them sink into the ground

this issue has been around for years at this point iirc

and now its stopped..?

[formal crane]

Nope. Dyno is pretty insane on that regard. It usually comes down to dumb things like trible same character or stuff like that...

[viral onyx]

hi guys, im new here, how do i mod sounds and is it even possible at the first place?

[radiant lion]

you can play sounds, but not custom ones

only some taken from the game

[viral onyx]

can i replace sounds, like the ocean waves sound with a silenced one?

or just replace the mp3 with a mute mp3 indiana jones style

[radiant lion]

As far as I know no... At least not via the official modding

I know there are some tools to replace textures and probably also sounds, but those are technically against the EULA, so can't really help

[formal crane]

Really appreicated all the work so far with the bug reports. Very helpful. I'll do a pass later today.

[warm canopy]

In terms of the most useful things added in the past, I think the subtlemessage functionality is probably way up their. So if you get time, UI related functions are incredibly useful (e.g The title text (seen in space))

[formal crane]

Yeah I agree. I think there are some small wins to be have had there; I generally support any kind of feedback to the player. Super useful for gamemodes.

Same with player event feed and proper dialogue system access.

[warm canopy]

Yup, they go along way to making mods feel less clunky

[formal crane]

But yeah, this modding release cycle will be focused on bug fixes as said.

Maybe a few functionalities will come out from fixing said bugs.

[warm canopy]

I dont think theirs that many bugs in the grand-scheme of things. Most notable being the explosions prefab causing a crash on players joining whilst spawned, the invincible not overriding the server setting and probably the colour issues that Jess has

[formal crane]

Let see how it looks at the other side, I can't push for more at the moment.

[radiant lion]

Drag is also something i'd like to see fixed, tho I still need to setup a decent test mod

[formal crane]

Personally the Set Health stuff is also making me cringe, I think there is a few more of these cases where things are just way too unreliable or requires some kind of weird tribal knowledge to circumvent some non-descriptive behaviour.

Things should be just straightforward.

[warm canopy]

Set Health has always been weird because it also doesnt affect the strength of the welds

[serene magnet]

Posted it in general chat and got ignored so figured this may be a better place. Eventually gonna make it all work but I wanted to try my hand at a semi botnak themed turret

If anyone has any ideas/suggestions please lemme know. Preferably before I start trying to program animations

[paper bone]

Would be funny if it would only shoot at builds that dont have the majority of their blocks painted yellow.

Omg i have THE idea: use actual projectiles.
Save a blueprint of a single pipe or something like that and spawn them with a massive force.

[shadow iris]

player name must have "BOTNAK" somewhere in it to be a friendly

[serene magnet]

i wanna try and make a feedback system between blueprints and mods to see if i can make it so you can shut down the turret with an EMP

[dapper jay]

I tried doing that with dynamite but my issue was that the blueprint had a random offset that i didnt feel like figuring out

[paper bone]

Oh oooof

[dapper jay]

yeah

[dapper jay]

is communication between mods even possible?

my first idea was to add stuff to tm, but thats blocked

and idk if its shared between mods anyway

[warm canopy]

No its not

[dapper jay]

rip

[near parcel]

each mod runs on a different sandbox

closest thing are hacks like spawning objects and measuring them with raycasts

[warm canopy]

Itd be nice to have some way but nothing right now unless you do some really janky way by having one mod look for objects

[near parcel]

why would you need mods to communicate between eachother? Only thing i can think of are dependencies, but a dependency manager that bundles different mods into a single package would be better for that

[dapper jay]

you could have a mod that implements a projectile system and other ones just use the functions that it exposes

[near parcel]

that's what dependencies are for (specially when they are required for the mod to function rather than optional)

[warm canopy]

I wish we had some way of communicating to a db that you could then pull from with a different mod.

[dapper jay]

we dont have that either 👍

[near parcel]

https://xyproblem.info/ then you should ask for what you actually want, not something you think might solve your problem

[dapper jay]

The dependency mod would only exist in my mod env, right?
Lets say i make a mod for spawning bouncy balls that can have rules for what they bounce off of, and this mod can be used by other mods

If i want to make it so that my red bouncy balls only bounce off of other red balls, it would all work just fine with the balls spawned by my mod, but what if another mod spawns red balls? There would be 2 instances of the balls mod running and they wouldnt know of the balls spawned by the other instance

Thats why it would be cool to have it as a central thing instead, it gets loaded like a normal mod and exposes some api for other mods to use

[near parcel]

if proper dependency management is added, downloading your mod would also download your dependencies and any dependencies of those

[dapper jay]

so it would be loaded as it's own mod with it's own env

if so, how do i interact with it lol

theres no way to do that currently

[shadow iris]

i dont remember pipethruhill having LODs 👀

[shadow iris]

interesting

the same bug has happened with id 3

[formal crane]

what is the bug?

continuously getting player joined event?

[shadow iris]

seems like it. its only started happening today though...

seems like a somewhat rare bug but it did happen twice or thrice in about 1-2 hours of hosting. it stops after other things are triggered in the update function

[formal crane]

What you mean by other things?

[shadow iris]

in my update function it checks how far behind the server is running. if it's above 1ms it'll log the server frametime. if it's above a certain higher threshold it'll log again and clear unused/scrap structures and log the results. I'm guessing itd be something with logging because it only stops when either thing gets triggered and logs

I'll send the lua file asap as I can't explain it well from mobile

[scenic echo]

Does anyone know what this error means?

[radiant lion]

It seems you tried to do set position of something that isn't an object

Likely something that was an object but now deleted

[scenic echo]

thanks

[formal crane]

Could be worthy reportin as bug report if it is consistent 🙂

Might be a user error, but just wanna flag it... Don't hold back with the reports.

[warm canopy]

Not sure if this is bug but register keydown callbacks doesnt always work and ive found I have to have a few seconds of delay before registering for the host to load in

I feel like its become more of an issue with later updates

[shadow iris]

here is the lua file. i still dont know what exactly triggers this bug fyi

[scenic echo]

I'm pretty sure it's just me using tables wrong

[scenic echo]

This was happening because i forgot to delete a tm.physics.ClearAllSpawns() from one place

[shadow iris]

seems like "other things" includes other players joining as well

[formal crane]

Made a new thread for the whole Modding Resurgency 🙂
https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/1374687311538814986

It is worth noting that I am not only asking for bugs. But could also be Quality of life things.. Eg. weird Up vectors missing from classes. This is a little vague for now, but anything that seems small and would make your life easier.

I'll keep most of this discussion in that thread now. And then general modding discussion can continue here. I'll keep track of both to the best of my ability, but don't hesitate to ping me!

[formal crane]

Heya, any chance you could make a thread for this one? 🙂
Maybe someone else can help with making mod with reproducible case.

[scenic echo]

making the character 95% the original size or lower makes him fly, i'm gonna make a thread about this bug

[warm canopy]

Its always been the case (atleast since several updates), hence why in my server utilities mod I dont allow going below 1

[cinder spruce]

ah i just thought that was a physical limitation of the api, never tried it outside your mod

[scenic echo]

it would be definitely cool if we could make the character smaller for miniatures

[radiant lion]

On one side it would be cool, on the other if the Devs have to spend time on this instead of other stuff it's not really worthed

Which reminds me, a bunch of assets (lava, pipes and some flowers) when scaled exactly to 1 they are actually scaled way bigger (bigger than both 1.1 and 0.9) tho it's quite inconsequential, and having to handle scale differently for every object would be a pain

[warm canopy]

I think the last time smaller scales worked for the character properly was somewhere around 1.5

[formal crane]

We have some thoughts for this actually.. Unfortunantely, if we wanted to fix this then we might break existing maps.

[radiant lion]

That's fine, it's a lot less work for us to set the scale to ~1 than for you to go fix the scale on all the objects on all the maps

[formal crane]

Usually we have a lot of discussing on whether.. Should we fix things and break everything that compensates for said broken thing.

Or, keep compatibility and increase implementation complexity, usually resulting in more inconsistent behaviour.

[shadow iris]

I would say to just fix it tbh

[formal crane]

Mostly just uphill battle with mappers as they would have to go through and fix them in their maps 🙂

[radiant lion]

As of now trailmapper fixes it already, everything scaled to exactly one gets scales to 0.0001 so the scale stays linear

So, if the scale 1 gets scaled down to how it's supposed to then nothing changes, if every other scale is scaled up to match then everything will need an update

[formal crane]

Yeah, but every old map would have to be opened in trailmapper to update the scale.

[radiant lion]

With the second fix yes, first one no

[near parcel]

First one technically yes, but the change should be too small to notice

[shadow iris]

it would be cool if we could have keybind glyphs in strings ngl

[regal bear]

I remembered this had been discussed before and a search found that the issue was discussed with you back in 2023 in bug-reports:
#bug-reports message

You suggested adding a "ToggleCollider" to the API which would be an ideal solution 🙂

[formal crane]

Fuck aroud with <sprite index=<num> in the string until you find what you need.. Psst... You didn't hear it from me 😉

[formal crane]

Agreed 🙂

[regal bear]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-star-wars-emperor-palpatine-palpatine-gif-799657800635657398

🤓

[warm canopy]

Sprite index is awesome btw, fitting that code in a subtle message isnt 😛

I dream of more ui functionality one day

[scenic echo]

Me too

[near parcel]

does the tag's characters count towards the length limit?

[warm canopy]

Yup 😐

Controller Xbox:

1 = B
2 = X
3 = Y
4 = LB
5 = RB
6 = LT
7 = RT
8 = DPAD
9 = DPAD UP
10 = DPAD RIGHT
11 = DPAD DOWN
12 = DPAD LEFT
13 = MENU
14 = SWAP SCREEN
15 = XBOX BUTTON
16 = LEFT STICK
17 = LEFT STICK UP
18 = LEFT STICK RIGHT
19 = LEFT STICK DOWN
20 = LEFT STICK LEFT
21 = LEFT STICK PRESS
22 = RIGHT STICK
23 = RIGHT STICK UP
24 = RIGHT STICK RIGHT
25 = RIGHT STICK DOWN
26 = RIGHT STICK LEFT
27 = RIGHT STICK PRESS
55 = A
56 = B
57 = X
58 = Y
59 = LB
60 = RB
61 = LT
62 = LT + RT
63 = RT

Controller Playstation:

33 = L1
34 = R1
35 = L2
36 = R2
37 = OPTIONS BUTTON
38 = LEFT STICK
39 = RIGHT STICK
40 = O
41 = X
42 = Square
43 = Triangle
44 = DPAD UP
45 = DPAD RIGHT
46 = DPAD DOWN
47 = DPAD LEFT
48 = ALL DPAD
49 = TOUCHPAD

113 = TOUCHPAD

Additional Controller Buttons:

64 = L1
65 = R1
66 = L2
67 = L2 + R2
68 = R2
69 = DPAD
70 = DPAD UP
71 = DPAD RIGHT
72 = DPAD DOWN
73 = DPAD LEFT
74 = MENU BUTTON
75 = SWAP SCREEN
76 = XBOX BUTTON
77 = OPTIONS BUTTON
78 = LEFT STICK
79 = RIGHT STICK
80 = LEFT STICK
81 = LEFT STICK UP
82 = LEFT STICK RIGHT
83 = LEFT STICK DOWN
84 = LEFT STICK LEFT
85 = LEFT STICK PRESS
88 = Circle
89 = X
90 = Square
91 = Triangle
92 = RIGHT STICK
93 = RIGHT STICK UP
94 = RIGHT STICK RIGHT
95 = RIGHT STICK DOWN
96 = RIGHT STICK LEFT
97 = RIGHT STICK PRESS
100 = DPAD UP
101 = DPAD RIGHT
102 = DPAD DOWN
103 = DPAD LEFT
104 = ALL DPAD
114 = L1
115 = R1
116 = L2
117 = R2

Mouse:

28 = Mouse
29 = Left Button Click
30 = Middle Mouse Button
31 = Right Button Click
32 = Arrow Keys
33 = ALL DPAD
106 = Mouse
106 = Left Button Click
107 = Middle Mouse Button
108 = Right Button Click
109 =

Keyboard:

98 = UP ARROW
99 = DOWN ARROW
112 = LEFT ARROW
119 = DELETE
120 = B
122 = RIGHT ARROW
153 = A

Other :

50 = No Access
51 = Caution
52 = Alert
53 = XP
54 = Coin
86 = No Access
87 = Caution
109 = Black Square
110 = Black Rectangle
111 = Slightly Longer Black Rectangle
112 = Small Alert
121 = No Access

[near parcel]

(this should be added to the wiki)

[warm canopy]

Man theirs 100+ sprite ids. Not sure if I've got the stamina

[near parcel]

it probably can be distributed between a couple people ||(or the frans could give us the list since they probably already have it)||

[scenic echo]

If someone can give me an example of how to check them, i can help

[warm canopy]

Just copy and paste the sprite id into the games username field

[scenic echo]

What is the games username field?

[warm canopy]

?

Damn theirs alot of duplicates

[paper bone]

sadly the "sprite index= " text contributes to the byte limit, so its very limited in useability

tm.playerUI.AddSubtleMessageForPlayer(playerId, "FreeCam", "Press <sprite index=1> to toggle Free Camera!", 10)

[radiant lion]

Ironic that controller inputs can't be checked with mods

(unless I lost an update)

[paper bone]

in case anyone wants to look through some of these icons

[regal bear]

So... uh... HTML tags can go anywhere? 😮

"┌─ <b>Lap</b> Time by..."

"<b>Ha </b><i>Ha </i><u>Ha </u>"

'Someone' may have opened a worm of cans!

[shadow iris]

YOOO

time to add doom to subtle messages

worm of cans is wild btw. i think you meant can of worms

[regal bear]

deliberate

plus it's a better visual

[shadow iris]

oo you could do like flare on text with a scrolling bold part

like you have "Claim the crown!" and like 2 characters are made bold and that scans across the text

[regal bear]

well you might end up with text that all tag and no... um message

[shadow iris]

I wonder if <br/> for line breaks works

[regal bear]

I did scrolling text and other animations already in TCP - don't need HTML for that.

I know /n works in Subtle messages - I use it.

[shadow iris]

and no it's just like
Cl<b>ai</b>m the crown!

[shadow iris]

but for subtle messages and putting bold on a small part of it

[regal bear]

Animation works in Subtle Messages too

[shadow iris]

wait what if we put <style> and then custom css XDD

[regal bear]

But yeah adding bold, italics, underline, etc it's useful.

[paper bone]

Subtle messages really suffer heavily under the char limit, it hurts to use

[shadow iris]

@ Frans take notes

[regal bear]

yeah. The Header part of a subtle message doesn't actually even fit all 32 on screen - unless you put a line break in (and then you get 30 visible at least)

[shadow iris]

this to be used on the regular UI window

[regal bear]

We can get around the character limit with animation (lots of updating values) so it's still handy to be able to use tags

[shadow iris]

what about divs?

[regal bear]

hehe who knows?

[shadow iris]

could do a div and then style

or just a styles element

[regal bear]

span too?

[shadow iris]

div and set font size !!!

maybe even LINE HEIGHT!!

what happens with absolute positioning and relative offsets

can we move divs outside the UI window?

set the overflow to display too?

[regal bear]

I haven't got time to test right now. I expect it might be tags but not styles etc.

[shadow iris]

I might try this in the morning or afternoon... so many possibilities

[paper bone]

<ul>👀

[shadow iris]

<div style="">content</div>

[regal bear]

Can't wait for people to make eye splitting rapid blinking marquee scrolling nightmare UI's 😂

[shadow iris]

God forbid horizontal scrolling in mod windows

[regal bear]

oh sorry - did that one

[paper bone]

It would be crazy if things like <audio> work

[shadow iris]

radio button / checkbox when

[regal bear]

so the UI is built on a browser you say?

[shadow iris]

doom

[paper bone]

Yeah no probaply not. Would be very odd if thats the way it works

[shadow iris]

adds TM wiki embed

[paper bone]

<table> could be interesting

[shadow iris]

text aligning perhaps

or if we do have styling then customizing text background, overflow visibility, line height, font size

WE COULD DO TRANSLUCENT UI EVEN

oh actually

[paper bone]

hyperlinks?

[shadow iris]

if absolute positioning works then you could just have an actual custom UI engine

[regal bear]

How short is your URL?

[shadow iris]

as short as me

[paper bone]

Fair enough

[shadow iris]

tinyurl lore

bitly lore

[dapper jay]

there are two more but theyre probably not relevant for tm

[shadow iris]

yup

[regal bear]

OK so if colour works - wow

[shadow iris]

color and font size

[dapper jay]

colour and size do work in some places

[shadow iris]

italics works in subtle messages as thats probably how Dethrone works

[paper bone]

Ah oof dreams crushed

[shadow iris]

this allows translucent colors..?

[dapper jay]

it should

[regal bear]

I also just showed it here:
#1140936220487192587 message

[shadow iris]

shh

[regal bear]

Yep coloured text works

[dapper jay]

transparency also works

size works as well but it gets clipped off

[regal bear]

The tags appear not to count towards the 32 character limit at all!

[dapper jay]

btw the game still has a chance to crash if you enter too many characters

[paper bone]

Im pretty sure they do on subtle messages, atleast with the
Sprite tag #1140936220487192587 message

[formal crane]

https://docs.unity.cn/Manual/UIE-supported-tags.html

not all of them but, good guidance 🙂

[regal bear]

Yeah I didn't make it very clear but I was just referring to the standard UI stuff there.

[regal bear]

Which I exactly did just before you posted that 🤣

[formal crane]

I have it marked for this cycle
https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/1374687311538814986

[dapper jay]

yay

[near parcel]

custom html != custom css. Even if you can specify the attributes, they might be ignored, and likely just a few tags are supported

[wet dagger]

Hey guys, I've just started on making some mods for TM. I can't find anywhere if we have an in-game console or maybe even a log file to see prints etc from Lua?

[dapper jay]

the game creates a .log file for every mod that prints something

[radiant lion]

tm.os.Log(whatever)

[dapper jay]

tm.os.Log("erm ackschualli")

[wet dagger]

Thanks! I've also only found this so far https://github.com/ALVAROPING1/Trailmakers-mods/blob/master/Documentation.lua for parseable docs, is there anything newer than 3 years old? Or any API list

[radiant lion]

Unfortunately I am pretty sure that's up to date

Tho the game should provide you with one that for sure is up to date, either in the mods folder directly or from "documentationmod"

[wet dagger]

Thank you thats's perfect!

[dapper jay]

https://github.com/ALVAROPING1/Trailmakers-API-LuaLS

[shadow iris]

tm.playerUI.AddUILabel(0, "header", "<line-indent=50%>Header 1 which is really unnecessarily long for</line-indent>") crashed the game
edit: mb its just the character amount crash

ooh, could that be used to disconnect (but not ban/kick) players? cause that is probably clientside rendering

line-height at 50% also crashed the game

[dapper jay]

are you sure the string is not longer than 64 characters?

[shadow iris]

trust the process ||(don't)||

[dapper jay]

yeah thats gonna crash your game

[shadow iris]

but i heard that crash was at 81 characters

not 64

[dapper jay]

its 64

[shadow iris]

damnit so many of these from frans' unity docs list dont work

why why why

also i dont think any of the ones that require a string (e.g. <font-weight="100">) will work unless im doing something wrong

wait i dont need to put the "" for color at least

hyperlinks do work but you can't click on them 😭

[regal bear]

This tag stuff is effectively a new feature for us which is pretty fun 🙂

[shadow iris]

theres also like 5 things out of frans's unity docs list that actually work
and all the proper fun stuff like text align, line height, and width dont work

[regal bear]

Bummer. Nice work going through and checking though 👍

[shadow iris]

damn you, glyphs don't work in ui

and yes i tried other indexes

tf why isnt <s> allowed

[dapper jay]

funnily enough, line-height and mspace do work in other places(used to align the pixels)

[shadow iris]

standard tags for text formatting

<a> - hyperlinks (can't click on the links) (doesn't work with subtle messages)
<b> - bold
<color> - colored text
<i> - italics
<rotate> - rotate individual characters (works only in subtle messages)
<size> - font size (maximum of 16px before vertically overflowing in ui window)
<sprite name> - can't test
<sprite index> - glyphs like controller inputs works only in subtle messages

[shadow iris]

yeah out of that literally only 6 of them do anything, and one of those don't work properly

so all we get is colored, bold, italicized, miniature text

and also translucent

[shadow iris]

this should be pinned

hmm because subtle messages allow sprites, WHAT ELSE WORKS?

IT ALLOWS <S>

YOO

god save us all it allows size too

frans never patch this out istg lol

the character limit still exists but now we can cover the screen with subtle message

we can have thin message subtle messages too!

also uhmm

new ui windows just dropped-

[shadow iris]

that only happens every other message it seems

[regal bear]

Use line breaks after each letter to get vertical text

[shadow iris]

box

i wonder if i can get the formatting to work on the image too lol that would be horrible

[regal bear]

Such a shame the SMs suffer from tags adding to the character limit

[shadow iris]

such a shame theres a char limit at all

[regal bear]

I tried to add colour to my racing splits hud but I can't fit enough info in between the tags 😦

[shadow iris]

one day i will relearn how to import a texture

i dont think it does sadly

fair enough tbh

wait

it still loads the image even with the tag

[regal bear]

No closing tag?

[shadow iris]

doesnt need it i think

yoo voffset works

[regal bear]

yeah I found that too but I wonder if there are other consequences (with no closing tag)

[regal bear]

Imagine being able to fit "War and Peace" in there

[regal bear]

well then

[shadow iris]

rotate works

[regal bear]

indeed

[shadow iris]

margin works

[regal bear]

cool

[shadow iris]

negative text size OVERFLOWS OUT

!!!!!

[regal bear]

aaaaah wot?

you escaped!

[shadow iris]

it doesnt wanna work with rotate=180 😢

i forgot a > thats whhy

[regal bear]

ooh nice one

[shadow iris]

you get 10 characters to play with

also is it just me or is that image smaller

[regal bear]

special chars could be useful here

a floating 'icon'

[shadow iris]

"GO!"

negative <pos> values makes the subtle message flicker like crazy

a has snuck into the image 🕵️

yoo negative line indent pushes it left

[regal bear]

wow!

[shadow iris]

this method gives you TWO WHOLE CHARACTERS!!!!

and ONE that escapes

[regal bear]

Doom

[shadow iris]

you can get 2 characters outside by sacrificing the header too

ah you dont need voffset, that saves a lot of chars

its only giving me one character that escapes to the bottom center of the screen

[regal bear]

Imagine this when SM's are stacked. You could really get stuff in the way of the player mid screen hehe

[shadow iris]

oh trueee

yoo negative mspace also lets you escape

and mspace is less characters

[regal bear]

nice

[shadow iris]

its stacked one character per line

[shadow iris]

deploying flashbang

my biggest issue is the char limit and also trying to get more than one character on one line escaped

half credit

well i can escape 2 characters but theyre seperated like theyre in a long distance relationship

oh and theyre on 2 lines too...

oh piss off it works but only for up to -425 space

so close yet so far

what i currently have rn allows 3 characters btw

cause <align=justified> is so god damn fat

but ofc <space> is limited to -425 so i cant center it anyway

damnit <indent> is limited to -425 too... is it a hard limit?

they yearned for the custom ui

[cinder spruce]

screen space sprites when 💔

[shadow iris]

nobr is a joke

who dwells t here

i saw someone typing

i can do this but what good is it without text

if i can make it have multiple characters on one line then it can be backgroundless text

[regal bear]

screenspace crosshair?

[cinder spruce]

you’ll be taking like a fourth of the screen with subtle message backgrounds but would be cool

[regal bear]

pretty cursed

[cinder spruce]

if its only the one it would be cool for heads up display info for modded values

as long as you can get enough characters

[shadow iris]

i give up on a background but if i can just get something like

[E]
Talk

then id be happy

i just need the multiple chars per line and centering it too

this char limit SUCKS

4 chars to work with

[cinder spruce]

why does it even exist

[shadow iris]

because 🖕

[cinder spruce]

is there an actual reason tho?

[shadow iris]

i dont know

the game CAN handle way more (even in official use) so

my best guess is 🖕

<nobr> for no line break is full of shit

it hasnt worked once in my use case

ez

lowk if i just keep throwing shit at the wall maybe it will eventually work

i haven't been at this for over 2 hours trust me

[regal bear]

take a break

[shadow iris]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-kitty-cat-flashlight-gif-27037527

i wonder if a hyperlink would work

i forgot how to href

nvm

0-181 (182 glyphs total)
181 is empty it appears

118 is the warning symbol used when overlapping blocks are present in build mode

121 is a red/white circle thing

127 is the arrow key cluster

129 is XP

130 is gold

[shadow iris]

im afraid it isnt possible to make all the escaped text on one line
this is the closest i can get

z layering between subtle messages is random

if a completely transparent image is used, could have a slimmed down subtle message

HATRED

for some reason the header can go further before linewrap fucks it

this is the best i can do

[shadow iris]

Keyboard glyphs:
32 = ALL ARROW KEYS
98 = UP ARROW (small)
99 = DOWN ARROW (small)
112 = LEFT ARROW (small)
119 = CTRL (small)
120 = B (small)
122 = RIGHT ARROW (small)
127 = ALL ARROW KEYS (small)
128 = TAB (small)
142 = F
143 = 1
144 = 2
145 = ALT
146 = Y
147 = Z
148 = I
149 = R
150 = E
151 = CTRL
152 = W
153 = A
154 = S
155 = D
156 = SPACE
157 = B
158 = DEL
173 = TAB
175 = BACKSPACE
176 = F5
177 = INSERT
178 = F6
179 = F8
180 = C

Extraordinary glyphs:
13 = Hamburger menu (controller)
15 = Xbox logo

49 = Long empty key
50 = No access
51 = Caution
52 = Alert
53 = XP
54 = Gold

86 = No access (small)
87 = Caution (small)
109 = Square empty key (small)
110 = Rectangle empty key (small)
111 = Rectangle empty key (small)
121 = No access (small)

181 = Empty

Mouse glyphs:
28 = Mouse
29 = Left Button
30 = Middle Mouse Button
31 = Right Button

106 = Left Button (small)
107 = Middle Mouse Button (small)
108 = Right Button (small)

[formal crane]

yeah the imgui is not richtext elements. They are ancient unity things :v

[formal crane]

ohgod haha

[formal crane]

NOOO

--
I have come to realise that I have communicated the next fixes will come in "next release cycle"
This was ambiguous and what I meant was whenever we have time served for modding programming.

There won't be anything for PvP part 2, but I can let you know there has been made things for after that.

[shadow iris]

known for a while: rotation seems to affect whether theyre in shade or not

and wavy plant prefabs are not correctly darkened as you go deeper into the water it seems

[ocean delta]

how do i get the complexity mod?

[shadow iris]

modding is PC-Steam only.

[ocean delta]

yea i have it now

[shadow iris]

might wanna update y our roles

they can be found either on the ingame workshop or steam worskho

i would recommend steam workshop

[ocean delta]

how?

[ocean delta]

i got it btw

[shadow iris]

https://discord.com/channels/296562030624899072/748830016162496542

[ocean delta]

thx

got it

[wet dagger]

Hey I'm having trouble with block health, it seems to be that blocks StartHealth and CurrentHealth for freshly spawned blocks don't match. Also using SetHealth only changes the start health and not the current health. Anyone have any insight?

[shadow iris]

health functions are known to be broken for ages, it'll probably be fixed in the update after pvp part 2

[shadow iris]

it now has a proper icon

[shadow iris]

options to control echo in a given area would be cool, like in caves and such

although so would darkness volumes / black fog

actually fog volumes/world fog controller in general

[shadow iris]

damnit why is this model cursed

its triangulated, its uvs arent completely cursed, the model faces and vertices are both way under 32767

[wet dagger]

Hey I've had some issues with clearing up the map of structures. When I clean up for example, the entire build gets removed but suddenly flashes back into existence a moment later. By which method are you successfuly clearing them up if you don't mind my asking

[shadow iris]

ModStructure.Dispose()

[shadow iris]

@scenic echo

local playerId = 0
tm.playerUI.AddUILabel(playerId, "header", "<b>Time of day presets</b>")

tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(playerId, "morning", "<color=#d0a000>Dawn</color>", SetTOD)
--tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(playerId, "early_noon", "<color=#70a0ff>Morning</color>", SetTOD, 45)
--tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(playerId, "default", "<color=#5080ff>Default</color>", SetTOD, 50)
--tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(playerId, "late_noon", "<color=#eedd99>Afternoon</color>", SetTOD, {tod = 60})
--tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(playerId, "sunset", "<color=#dd77aa>Sunset</color>", SetTOD, {tod = 65})
--tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(playerId, "evening", "<color=#503090>Dusk</color>", SetTOD, {tod = 70})
--tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(playerId, "midnight", "<color=#202050>Midnight</color>", SetTOD, {tod = 95})
--tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(playerId, "late_night", "<color=#102090>Night</color>", SetTOD, {tod = 5})

function SetTOD()
    tm.world.SetTimeOfDay(34)
end

[scenic echo]

Wth

[shadow iris]

is this a good or bad thing lol

[scenic echo]

I have no idea why the hevk that error is a thing

[shadow iris]

EXACTLY

i am cursed with ui istg

every time ive tried doing stuff that involves callbacks or buttons/text in general it never works

@scenic echo FIXED IT

[scenic echo]

Me too lol

[shadow iris]

this works

but its hardcoded

[scenic echo]

that makes so much sense

i just did:

function onPlayerJoined(callback)
    tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(callback.playerId, "morning", "<color=#d0a000>Dawn</color>", SetTOD, nil)
    tm.playerUI.AddUIButton(callback.playerId, "L1", "Switch active keybind", SwitchKey, 0)
end

[scenic echo]

the function needed to be initialized before you tried using it

[shadow iris]

fun fact i tried that earlier and it didnt work

so all i needed to do was ask tech support

as always

[scenic echo]

goodnight now, it's 11pm where i'm at

[shadow iris]

1:26pm moment

[shadow iris]

YO

setting time of day to 0/0 or math.huge makes the world completely black, but when setting it back to an in-bounds time, ambient light remains in a weird state

this works until the world goes in and then out of nighttime
entering and leaving water also fixes this (water probably has its own ambient light setting)

and during dusk (before the moon has come out) you can have no ambient light and no moonlight

@cinder spruce yo

reflections/cubemaps still work i believe

this only works when timeofday has been rendered in the broken state once

build mode corrects this bug

this bug affects tire tracks

particles are completely fucked

tire tracks render through things

[scenic echo]

@sleek apex this might be good for your darker night mod

[shadow iris]

particles and tire tracks are bugged though, exiting build mode resets it, entering water resets it, it's client side

[scenic echo]

Still cool

[sleek apex]

That seems pretty cool but a bit technical for me 🫠
I only know how to use trailmappers

[shadow iris]

it's pretty easy but still buggy and gets fixed client side really easy

[cinder spruce]

what the

[shadow iris]

exactly vro

[cinder spruce]

witchcraft

[shadow iris]

using structure.GetRotation().y%1==0 no longer works for quickly detecting structures in build mode?

[wet dagger]

@shadow iris What about just

tm.players.GetPlayerIsInBuildMode(playerId)

[shadow iris]

no. this mod needs to targets builds that are outside of build mode

and you cannot assume a player only ever has one structure

[wet dagger]

I see what you mean

[shadow iris]

never seen that before (the server froze)

for reference, this is line 104?

[near parcel]

add logs to see where execution is actually ending

[shadow iris]

does ModBlock.SetGyroPower() actually work? i cant get it to work on a regular gyro

at the very least it doesn't update in the settings menu of the gyro. at worst, it's not actually doing anything

ModBlock.GetGyroPower() works just fine at reading the in-menu value of the gyro

setting engine power to math.huge or 0/0 crashes the game while welding. who saw that coming 🤔

[cinder spruce]

i have a solution to this bug

don’t use math.huge as an argument

[warm canopy]

Yeah that seems the cause of most of the issues

And setting engine power to 0 always causes a crash

[shadow iris]

erm its actually undefined NaN and not 0

[warm canopy]

0 also crashes

[shadow iris]

header colors in subtle messages are just so god damn pretty

yo alvaro, you told me a while back to use deltatime to calculate server performance... that doesn't work

also apparently this happened

[shadow iris]

bump

[warm canopy]

I suspect SetGyroPower doesn’t work. I thought it was something else but I use that function in Aerobatic Aces mod and it does not set the gyro power

[shadow iris]

i see thats another bug off to #1123915629653667943... im aboutta get told off by dyno for spamming

[warm canopy]

For frans reference, you can see in my mod by starting the mod, flying around until you run out of fuel but make it back to the carrier. The gyros in the plane (Hellkite) don’t regain their power