@twilit fog is your 26.1 particles PR mergable from your side?
#docs-website
pliant canopy
pliant canopy
Great
brazen moon
well you can recheck all of them I thought you already did
eager plover
at least there, yea
pliant canopy
well you can recheck all of them I thought you already did
Pretty sure I checked them all with 26.1, yeah
Well, to the best of my abilities at least
Aight that should do it
twilit fog
If anyone has time to look at https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/issues/749. Since Adventure 5.0.0 made breaking changes to this format it needs an update
timid cedar
This format will no longer be supported in Adventure v5.
says who? it should be
twilit fog
I looked at the diff last week but from what I remember it throws a syntax exception now
@pliant canopy made that change 6 months ago
pliant canopy
Everything is my fault
pliant canopy
I don't even know what we are talking about tbh
Which diff did I touch
Something about hover events, but I don't remember actively changing any logic
timid cedar
I am opposed to the change, please do make an issue
on an unrelated note, i'd like to get the adventure javadocs onto the paper website alongside the others, and work out a better solution than our current javadoc hosting
does anyone have any ideas or thoughts about that? i have no clue how the existing jds are hosted but the last time i checked it was fill related which doesn't make sense for adventure
pliant canopy
does anyone have any ideas or thoughts about that? i have no clue how the existi...
The PaperMC Javadocs are hosted using javaducks. I don't know anything about them being fill-related, to my knowledge it just reads from a Maven repository (checking the maven-metadata.xml). The thing I kind of fear is that I don't think javaducks has a clean way to handle such an insane amount of Javadoc modules that Adventure has. Or at least I am not really sure about that part, but I am sure riley would know more about that
timid cedar
cc @opal flare ^
pliant canopy
I guess what I meant by "clean way of handling" is not exactly javaducks related, moreso how we would display it on the website, since we'd need one box for each of Adventure's modules
timid cedar
yeaaaaah
i kinda wanted to see if it was possible to create a "mega javadocs" of some kind
pliant canopy
It would be pretty rad if javaduck had a cute little dropdown you could define for a "group" of related projects
timid cedar
so then it's just adventure, adventure-platform-mod and that's it
im not sure if this is the best idea but
pliant canopy
I mean, I personally think it could make sense, mostly also now that we are working with Java modules, it's easier to know which class comes from which modules and by extension, dependency
timid cedar
yeah and i think modules split nicely on javadocs anyway right?
then we could put the artifact id in the module-info too
pliant canopy
To me knowledge, yeah, but I would need to do more research on that
spice temple
For reference, part of the javaducks config
app:
root-redirect: "https://papermc.io/javadocs"
host-name: "https://jd.papermc.io"
storage: "./storage/"
endpoints:
- name: "folia"
versions:
- name: "1.19"
path: "https://repo.papermc.io/repository/maven-public/dev/folia/folia-api/1.19.4-R0.1-SNAPSHOT/"
type: "SNAPSHOT"
- name: "1.20"
path: "https://repo.papermc.io/repository/maven-public/dev/folia/folia-api/1.20.1-R0.1-SNAPSHOT/"
type: "SNAPSHOT"
- name: "1.21"
path: "/folia/1.21.11/"
type: "REDIRECT"
- name: "1.21.11"
path: "https://repo.papermc.io/repository/maven-public/dev/folia/folia-api/1.21.11-R0.1-SNAPSHOT/"
type: "SNAPSHOT"
You literally manually define the urls and if they should redirect or serve something from a specified url, that part is really low tech
(the serving and caching and injecting of custom stuff is the cool part)
I am in favor of grouping the modules for adventure into two javadoc urls. Especially with how good search is now, we would be missing out
twilit fog
Also makes life easier not having to have two URLs open when working with minimessage
spice temple
Idk if there is a proper way, but we could just copy all source files into a temp module and publish that javadoc, lol
spice temple
Also makes life easier not having to have two URLs open when working with minime...
Yeah it's just really bad ux all around
vocal halo
It should be really obvious what module a class is part of tho. I think I can see myself checking javadoc having a Class that I do not locally have because it’s part of another module/artifact
eager plover
i kinda wanted to see if it was possible to create a "mega javadocs" of some kin...
Basically, yes, but I never managed to test it; it's not an official sorta thing though
Is the plugin I spotted for this
pliant canopy
I did the thing
Anyways, I presume I might package this into a nice PR
We can decide what to do with that afterwards
I suppose with that cleared up, there's nothing stopping us from publishing the aggregated Javadocs jar to the paper repo somewhere and then adding a javaducks entry to point at it
Can you publish javadocs to a maven repo without a compiled jar?
eager plover
Yes, it's just an artifact
pliant canopy
Great
I have no idea how the publishing of Adventure works, otherwise I would've added something to the PR as well, but I am sure @timid cedar has much motivation to edit my PR and patch it in 
Btw kezz, what would you say to building the javadocs with Java 25? It doesn't break any compatibility, but it makes the generated html files:
- Look nicer and have all of the added improvements
- Look the same as the Paper Javadocs, which are also build with a JDK 25
I just through of that because I forgot to specify the java version for the javadoc task and it defaulted to 25 (which is what I simply have in my JAVA_HOME)
timid cedar
i have no objections to it, worth noting i was already working on the javadoc aggregating (putting it in the build-logic so we don't have to repeat the tag names, etc)
sorry, should've mentioned it
but i'll def take your PR to remove the checker annotations
timid cedar
although i am really struggling to get it to work in the build-logic for some reason
it randomly makes jmh break for seemingly no reason??
pliant canopy
smh
Where in the build logic are you applying it
You should only apply the plugin on the root project, hence why I didn't put it into build-logic
If you want the javadoc options thing to not be duplicated, I'd just put an extension method or something which deals with that
timid cedar
ive been sticking it in the build-logic in a new class only used by the root project
pliant canopy
That sounds needlessly convoluted
timid cedar
it is but i couldn't find a nicer way to not dupe the tags lol
pliant canopy
Hm, want me to try my magic on it after all?
timid cedar
yeah go on then
a working solution is better than one that doesn't work lmao
the publishing part might be the hardest, as i think we need it in a javadoc jar somewhere
then javaducks can read that
pliant canopy
I see what you mean
pliant canopy
It's a class not found exception for some reaosn
Specifically, in the common conventions
It seems to not like this
timid cedar
but like only when the jd aggregate is there
pliant canopy
Funnily enough, I created a completely empty adventure.root-conventions.gradle.kts file and applied it to root
And it dies then already too
timid cedar
ok it works totally fine in a new module
which isn't a bad idea anyway tbh, makes publishing a bit easier
pliant canopy
True, could make a javadoc module
Well, I'll let you play with that then, I gotta watch 12 minutes of misinformation on youtube
timid cedar
godspeed
timid cedar
True, could make a javadoc module
wait can you pastebin your code for it? i was having issues with getting the module stuff to work nicely but ended uyp with smth hacky that you mightve had a better solution for
pliant canopy
Uh sure
This is what I generally had: https://pastes.dev/GOWXQ2FrF1
(that's the root gradle kts)
It's still just listing all of the modules manually
timid cedar
So I don't really know how to test this, but just made a pr that should publish an aggregate jd jar - happy for you to adjust this to Java 25 if you want strokkur
idk what the difference is, we'd probably need to change the ci to use 25 as i think atm it uses 21
pliant canopy
So I don't really know how to test this, but just made a pr that should publish ...
Well, I cannot exactly commit to your branch, but I leave it up to your decision.
The difference is that Java 25 JDs have slightly more refined UI and also on the left side have like a contents overview. You can see the difference in the Paper vs Velocity JDs:
timid cedar
oh cool
pliant canopy
Yeah, the CI would need adjusting, but it's as simple as just installing Java 25 instead of 21
Btw any reason why you removed jspecify from the api build.gradle.kts?
timid cedar
it's pulled in transitively from key
pliant canopy
Ah okay
timid cedar
now, idk how to test this
pliant canopy
Test what exactly?
timid cedar
i guess we just merge and see if it ends up in the snapshot repos lol
i did publish locally and it seems to work
sharp pivot
would it also be possible to have https://github.com/PaperMC/adventure/issues/1392
timid cedar
sure
sharp pivot
ty
pliant canopy
Btw I changed the base branch of the checkerframework stuff I noticed, would merging that now into your branch perhaps make sense? I jsut remember there being something annoying with the configurate4 javadocs in aggregation
(idk if that's still relevant)
Surprisingly enough it seems fine for you
I just know it threw an exception for me, since it couldn't find the classpath for it
pliant canopy
hm, fair
timid cedar
For reference, part of the javaducks config
```yaml
app:
root-redirect: "http...
i assume it works with snapshots as well, would you be able to add adventure 5.0.1-SNAPSHOT to this and we'll test it out?
specifically adventure-javadoc module for the aggregate jar
spice temple
do you have a group for me?
timid cedar
just the usual - should be net.kyori:adventure-javadoc:5.0.1-SNAPSHOT
@pliant canopy any objections to me merging the jd and your pr?
hard quartz
side note... not sure why when try https://jd.papermc.io/adventure the redirect goes to https://jd.papermc.io/adventure/5.0.1// with the //
spice temple
well, I think javaduck refreshes automatically, so eventually this should work https://jd.papermc.io/adventure/5.0.1/
I cant check logs/restart, am at work + no pc at home
pliant canopy
I guess I could go ahead and open a PR to the website adding tiles for adventure and adventure-platform-mod?
Can just merge once all is ready ofc
timid cedar
yeah go for it
spice temple
would they work? I think website uses fill for the urls
pliant canopy
Nope, it doesn't
I changed that recently
Since javaducks has the auto-latest-version feature, that's what's being used now
timid cedar
although im not gonna touch adventure-platform-mod so you could just redirect that to the old url for now
timid cedar
actually, we need to update this right
javadocPublishRoot=https://jd.advntr.dev/
spice temple
meh hiding old docs is meh
timid cedar
but what would that even be now, and how did it even work before bc it's always been versioned
pliant canopy
meh hiding old docs is meh
but like seriously?
It's been multiple years at this point
pliant canopy
but what would that even be now, and how did it even work before bc it's always ...
New url would be https://jd.papermc.io/adventure/, and it auto-redirects to latest
spice temple
actually, we need to update this right
`javadocPublishRoot=https://jd.advntr.de...
that should be unrelated, no? javadoc jars have no hostnames like that. its related to adventures custom javadoc repo thingy I assume
spice temple
It's been multiple years at this point
its still being updated
pliant canopy
Is it though?
timid cedar
seems to be used in whatever indraCrossdoc is
pliant canopy
Eh whatever, guess I'll keep it
spice temple
I dont mind styling up the page a big, software - lib - legacy headers/sections
hard quartz
dont have one in docs?
spice temple
especially when we have adventure mod stuff it would make sense to seperate that from paper/velocity/folia
pliant canopy
especially when we have adventure mod stuff it would make sense to seperate that...
True
pliant canopy
dont have one in docs?
Oh yeah
hard quartz
i remember when asking for adventure in website here a few... weeks ago
pliant canopy
Well, I still cannot build the project, but at least I have cloudflare previews
lol
hard quartz
side note... not sure why when try https://jd.papermc.io/adventure the redirect ...
ok this not happen with https://jd.papermc.io/adventure/ only with https://jd.papermc.io/adventure xd
hard quartz
Well, I still cannot build the project, but at least I have cloudflare previews
the build in local still works.. i use that yesterday for test preview.. that works too.. its the dev with downloads page..
pliant canopy
How does this look?
hard quartz
hmm i prefer put again waterfalll in server software but with a thing for notice the "EOL"
pliant canopy
Actually, this is better
pliant canopy
hmm i prefer put again waterfalll in server software but with a thing for notice...
Idk how I feel about Adventure being below Waterfall
sharp pivot
what type of software is an end of life
hard quartz
and just like a tag in waterfalll with EOL? i dont like the "new category for things you dont need to use"
timid cedar
doesn't make sense to have anything you shouldn't use above things that are actively in use
pliant canopy
Yeah ^^
Like if we are already splitting it up, we should split it up properly
I could maybe get behind a Server Software / Libraries / Proxy Software grouping
Sometihng like this
hard quartz
well in others places its like that...
pliant canopy
well in others places its like that...
But there it's not grouped in the first place
It's just listed flat-out
I don't have a problem with a red label, I have a problem with putting adventure below waterfall
Okay, how do we feel about this?
timid cedar
okay yeah so 5.0.1-SNAPSHOT has been published but adventure-javadoc isn't being published
idk why it worked fine locally
vocal halo
Okay, how do we feel about this?
swap proxy and libraries
i think its a silly reason to not do it just because "i dont want to put it below waterfall"
Design wise it would still look better imo
pliant canopy
Well, I played around a bit with the colors, it might be fine if it's super red
I actually see right now that the downloads are styled like this, I could maybe style it the same way
Just so it looks consistent
pliant canopy
No it's not
vocal halo
ok
also, i think the "you can find the javadocs for our software below:" should be replaced by a more intuitive text
fair river
Any toned down red color choice? It should not be drawing attentions rather.
timid cedar
is there something really stupid im missing bc why on earth would javadoc not be published it's the exact same as everything else 😭
vocal halo
if it works local its kinda weird
pliant canopy
Any toned down red color choice? It should not be drawing attentions rather.
Well, that's the same red that's used on the download
fair river
Oh. How about the red color like my name rn
vocal halo
why not just white 🤷
pliant canopy
Because waterfall is eol and it should show that
timid cedar
it is weird enough to have it all in the same place as the supported software rather than some legacy page that holds doc/javadoc links, let alone also being white
like anyone who would even mention waterfall here would just get laughed off so idk why it's so prominent on the website anyway
vocal halo
but changing a color just makes it more prominent
pliant canopy
Kezz, listening to you feels like listening to myself
fair river
I am also be ok if we add a legacy section below everything? But I think it would also look like ass.
pliant canopy
I am also be ok if we add a legacy section below everything? But I think it woul...
That was already voted against
vocal halo
i think the javadoc page isnt really the place where displaying EOL really matters.
pliant canopy
This is what it looks like for me now
Let's make everything else blue to show "supported" 
"Libraries Software"
oops
vocal halo
cant stop looking at waterfall xd
fair river
Yeah that’s the opposite of what we want for attention grabbing 
timid cedar
doesn't some downloads page have a toggle for legacy or smth
maybe a toggle to show unsupported software might be better?
pliant canopy
Eh, idk that's too complex for JAVADOCS
spice temple
libraries software sounds really dum, just write libraries, lol
pliant canopy
libraries software sounds really dum, just write libraries, lol
Dude, I made a copy paste mistake, I know
spice temple
and ye, dont overthink it
vocal halo
i really think we are overthinking this
pliant canopy
vocal halo
just make it white, add the EOL box and call it a day
fair river
i really think we are overthinking this
I mean you just describe the job of a modern web dev /s
spice temple
either a legacy section or marking in red and server/proxy is fine by me
vocal halo
or we could just keep it this way because I already did the change
i can open a PR if you are lazy
vocal halo
either a legacy section or marking in red and server/proxy is fine by me
but what if we just leave it white?
making it red just draws unnecessary attention
fair river
I actually see right now that the downloads are styled like this, I could maybe ...
The attention grabbing issue only really matters for download page here. I agree that it probably doesn’t matter for javadoc and it can stay white like the rest of others as users who are on that page would know better about EOL
pliant canopy
Have you seen the downloads page
Oh that's actually white too
Eh screw it all
Removing it because I cannot be bothered
It is not worth for me to discuss this with people on the internet
fair river
pliant canopy
I actually like that
pliant canopy
spice temple
ship it
pliant canopy
Pushed onto my branch
timid cedar
okay perfect i think a javadoc jar exists now https://artifactory.papermc.io/ui/native/universe/net/kyori/adventure-javadoc/5.0.1-SNAPSHOT/
timid cedar
and we're live! https://jd.papermc.io/adventure/5.0.1/
spice temple
timid cedar
yeah it's nicer than i expected honestly
pliant canopy
There, okay nice
timid cedar
although im tempted to remove the (all modules) bit, looks weird in the previews
pliant canopy
Yeah it kinda does
Wtf deprecated API in my Adventure 5.0? Smh
(I love that you can see it)
timid cedar
that should be obsolete or smth else tbh
how do we add text to the root page - id like to link to the docs
pliant canopy
Well, Mini, if you approve the website JD PR, then we could merge it
spice temple
link?
viscid thistle
Oh my we're very active here today.
pliant canopy
pliant canopy
Oh my we're very active here today.
Yep, we are doing Adventure dev in the docs channel!
viscid thistle
What's unreadable?
viscid thistle
Are we using tailwind in the javadoc generation or something?
pliant canopy
No, on the website
spice temple
https://github.com/PaperMC/website/pull/234
here
viscid thistle
Hmm, okay.
pliant canopy
You know that my hand-edited svg is perfect when even the GitHub website refuses to render it
viscid thistle
Oh you mean the code, I was looking at the actual side and trying to figure out what looked bad 😛
pliant canopy
lol
timid cedar
<https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/blob/02ec8e9585c44d0ccbdf28495890308e25c045cb/...
oh that's kinda funky, ty!
pliant canopy
scorp getting ome last minute reviews in
smh I was so close the pressing the button
Hm, idk if that's actually better than just template strings
My tendency is to actually just keep it this way
drowsy zinc
I don't know how the rest of the codebase does that but this is the idiomatic way to conditionally apply css classes in astro
viscid thistle
Damn they still haven't merged that blocker for the optimized images. It's been like a dang week.
timid cedar
so for javaducks, what's the workflow for when a new release is ready? do i just have to poke @spice temple every time we push a new release?
or any chance i could get access to it?
pliant canopy
Hmm
Oh wait that's actually even wrong
idk I think it's less readable
rest of the codebase does string interpolation too
spice temple
so for javaducks, what's the workflow for when a new release is ready? do i just...
its part of a giant infra repo and we arent sure if that doesnt still contain some secrets, we do wanna clean that up eventually and completely open source it, but nothing happened ever, its not a prio
so ye, for now, just like for paper jds, poke somebody on core or michael
drowsy zinc
Hmm
class:list={["h-full w-full", eol && "group-hover:text-red-400 group-hover:stroke-red-400"]}
spice temple
its just some yaml file, I did that on mobile before
spice temple
`class:list={["h-full w-full", eol && "group-hover:text-red-400 group-hover:stro...
love array syntax for stuff like this
drowsy zinc
it doesn't really matter
pliant canopy
It really doesn't, no
spice temple
why would I have the last word on a codebase I dont touch, lol
pliant canopy
because I don't want to decide on it myself
spice temple
you guys have to work with it, you set conventions 😄
pliant canopy
Okay cool then let's set the convention that we are using lists from now on
spice temple
love array syntax for stuff like this
my opinion is this
viscid thistle
It's going to take like 5 seconds to do but I know June 2nd they are bumping to Node 24 so we need to update our actions. I know Depdendabot has some PRs open so the next time we do package updates, let's make sure to pull in the PRs that do action version updates. I've already tested it all locally and it looks to still build and run properly.
timid cedar
yeah we can sort that out at some other point, the readme says that too
it's meant to mean adventure-platform and -mod and ig the kotlin library i make at some point
pliant canopy
I would maybe shorten the whole thing to just See the docomentation for usage and dependency information
pliant canopy
it's meant to mean adventure-platform and -mod and ig the kotlin library i make ...
Aren't you gonna publish separate JD for that though?
timid cedar
ive pushed it now already, we can think about that again later ofc
@spice temple im gonna push 5.0.1 now, can you update javaducks to point to that rather than the snapshot?
timid cedar
you can ignore the snapshots tbh, we never host jds for them anyway
was just useful for testing
spice temple
actually, I am not sure if release stuff works at all
even for velocity we use snapshots
I know we had issues with release stuff when trying to get new paper stuff to work, jmp has a big refactor of this stuff pending, we can revisit then
timid cedar
😅
spice temple
the end user cant see the difference betwee the snapshot and the release anyways in the browser
or wait no its in the html
meh
pliant canopy
spice temple
iirc jmp asked claude and claude said its not implemented or something 😄
I think I missremmebver, lemme cook up something
huh the old ones dont even have javadoc jars https://artifactory.papermc.io/ui/native/universe/net/kyori/adventure-text-minimessage/5.0.0/
timid cedar
wha
pliant canopy
Lol
spice temple
I configured this url, hopefully its correct https://artifactory.papermc.io/artifactory/universe/net/kyori/adventure-javadoc/5.0.1/adventure-javadoc-5.0.1-javadoc.jar
timid cedar
how did we break that
spice temple
else I can change later, gotta go
pliant canopy
pliant canopy
I configured this url, hopefully its correct https://artifactory.papermc.io/arti...
sounds about right
timid cedar
what did we even change for that lmao
pliant canopy
Kezz, stop breaking the publish CI 
timid cedar
also the icons look kinda jank on light mode
spice temple
gl hf, not gonna be at work so no real pc tomorrow, but with a bit of luck ill have internet and setup my pc in the afternoon
pliant canopy
also the icons look kinda jank on light mode
oh god
timid cedar
gl hf, not gonna be at work so no real pc tomorrow, but with a bit of luck ill h...
should at least work for the aggregate one, ty!
pliant canopy
Yeah like nobody ever uses light mode
That's why nobody noticed
(working on a fix)
Okay actually it's my fault
Sorry for doubting people
@timid cedar is this good? https://fix-light-mode-icons-papermc-website.papermc.workers.dev/javadocs/
timid cedar
Yep
pliant canopy
Great!
timid cedar
btw im pushing a docs update for the new version and jd now
pliant canopy
Aight, tell me when you want it merged
timid cedar
😅
hearty briar
really like adventure javadocs having all modules on one single megajavadoc
now I can just open a single page when having to cross-reference the minimessage javadocs and the api ones lol
timid cedar
yeah it's actually really nice
pliant canopy
Thank you Kezz
twilit fog
:/
hard quartz
-# disable ublock
maybe a cache issue...
hearty briar
same here, that issue with caches or whatever will be the end of me
twilit fog
-# disable ublock
maybe a cache issue...
nope
same on Chrome where I don't have any extensions except WebGPU inspector
Edge is the same story
hearty briar
you can just open a different page and it'll be fine, everything except the overview until those get re-deployed
it is an issue in Paper's infra
hard quartz
return 200 not?
hearty briar
304
twilit fog
https://jd.papermc.io/adventure/5.0.1/net.kyori.adventure.api/net/kyori/adventur...
that works
hard quartz
https://jd.papermc.io/adventure/5.0.1/net.kyori.adventure.api/net/kyori/adventur...
ok now fails me the root page xd
hearty briar
afaik there's already a ticket internally: #paper-dev message
hard quartz
i mean if is a cache thing just wait until expire and cloudflare take that again...
hearty briar
but you may want to ping someone on core to do a cache purge
timid cedar
how does the jd: links work in the docs? working out if i can use that for adventure jd links or if i should just hardcode stuff
hearty briar
how does the jd: links work in the docs? working out if i can use that for adven...
https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#linking-to-javadocs seems to imply it works for any of the paper projects, I do wonder if it just works for the adventure one
timid cedar
so theoretically, adventure/5.0.1/net.kyori.adventure.api/net/kyori/adventure/text/Component.html#text(java.lang.String) becomes jd:adventure:net.kyori.adventure.api/net.kyori.adventure.text.Component#text(java.lang.String)
although idk if it parses the anchors at the end, i guess i will find out!
drowsy zinc
the anchors are not parsed specially, you need to use them as they are in the url
drowsy zinc
so theoretically, adventure/5.0.1/net.kyori.adventure.api/net/kyori/adventure/te...
this should work except the module name should be separated by a colon iirc
timid cedar
javadocs caching issue makes this so hard 😭
twilit fog
Decided to update the hover:show_item's argument documentation and played around with the table a little:
thoughts?
twilit fog
Already added one
eager plover
I did a thing
pliant canopy
Oh no
eager plover
https://github.com/PaperMC/Velocity/commit/f712997dd7f243cb3a0e55ec3f6277a10b6b1d69
Consider the existing one to be deprecated
pliant canopy
Wtf leaking non-internal channels??
pliant canopy
Can someone with write access to website please approve https://github.com/PaperMC/website/pull/236 so that it can get merged?
scenic gull
Can someone with write access to website please approve <https://github.com/Pape...
What does it change?
hard quartz
Can someone with write access to website please approve <https://github.com/Pape...
for any chance you can fix this too?
https://fix-light-mode-icons-papermc-website.papermc.workers.dev/software/waterfall/
pliant canopy
What does it change?
Fix Icons in light mode being dark
pliant canopy
for any chance you can fix this too?
https://fix-light-mode-icons-papermc-websit...
What are you referring to?
hard quartz
What are you referring to?
pliant canopy
Will do
hard quartz
downloads/waterfall has the same issue with the icon (but that in dark-light mode)
but i feel you cannot test that in local xd
twilit fog
Would this aside and badge be a good addition?
pliant canopy
sure
burnt ice
twilit fog
Hey why are adventure versions hardcoded? Couldn't we make a request to GitHub API to retrieve latest tag?
pliant canopy
Hey why are adventure versions hardcoded? Couldn't we make a request to GitHub A...
I asked Adventure team a while back and they preferred to have it this way
It's also the same as the previous Adventure docs used to be
(and it doesn't really change anything anyways, since new versions oftentimes have a docs PR with them anyways, so might as well)
viscid thistle
It looks like the image optimization is fixed btw. I wonder if they rolled out something in the backend.
hard quartz
It looks like the image optimization is fixed btw. I wonder if they rolled out s...
how you notice that?
i update a few deps but dont remember mention for the optimization...
well maybe https://github.com/withastro/astro/releases/tag/%40astrojs%2Fcloudflare%4013.1.10
viscid thistle
how you notice that?
I built it locally and also looked at the prod deployment and the images are normal size again. Not entirely sure what changed since that one PR never got merged.
But yeah it might be that other version bump that they merged.
hard quartz
@viscid thistle maybe... the only current issue in development is one where when run dev the first load of the page is blank... only the first time i run the dev task...
viscid thistle
Hmm, haven't seen that.
Oh... I just did a fresh clone and I do see that.
Hmm, I can't get it to reproduce again.
hard quartz
its strange only happen the first time...
viscid thistle
Is it happening every time for you?
hard quartz
Is it happening every time for you?
only the first.. later runs not has that issue
if make a cleanup of files (like install or remove untracked filles) then again the first run white... i think @pliant canopy has the same issue.
viscid thistle
Weird. Does upgrading Astro fix it? Maybe a bad patch version?
hard quartz
Weird. Does upgrading Astro fix it? Maybe a bad patch version?
the last PR for astro not change any for that.. a fresh start still show a blank page
hard quartz
I try debug in fresh but not see any related.. just a red thing for the time of load
random pollen
do the contributing docs mention how we don't do this anymore https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/pull/13861 ? @opal flare removed/disabled the BukkitMirrorTest a while ago
(if not they should)
opal flare
don't know if they do
random pollen
maybe a note in the class java doc could be good too
timid cedar
adventure 5.1.0 has just been released and here is pr for docs update! https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/pull/764
ready to go whenever
wow didn't realise adventure-platform-mod only depends on one class from adventure-platform lmaoo
i think im just gonna add that directly to mod-shared and call it a day
fair river
In light of 26.1.2 world folder changes, we may need to change all reference of world folder location 
Like this and many other pages...
From world_nether into world > dimensions > minecraftr > the_nether etc and also for the end? 
@pliant canopy
formal warren
should i assume that the dialog api is still experimental?
spice temple
Can't check rn but we have overflow issues on mobile
But what I actually wanted to say: how do people feel about RSS feeds for new builds? I guess would be implemented in fill and then just shown in fill UI and the website as a teaser kinda thing
hard quartz
Can't check rn but we have overflow issues on mobile
i notice that too a few days... only in the downloads page i think not?
tepid shuttle
uh I was browsing some older API versions, and I got this: https://jd.papermc.io/paper/1.21.3/io/papermc/paper/datacomponent/DataComponentTypes.html
spice temple
Sometimes it randomly shits the bed and then CF is super smart and caches the error page
(its fine for me rn)
drowsy zinc
can someone throw an approval on this? https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/pull/756
though I'm not sure if "Deprecated" wouldn't be better than "Legacy"
timid cedar
lgtm, legacy is correct as we don't have any plans to remove it any time soon
viscid thistle
@spice temple 👋
PR: https://github.com/PaperMC/website/pull/274
Preview: https://d1647d2a-papermc-website.papermc.workers.dev/downloads/paper
spice temple
nice, looks good, thanks
twilit fog
Should MiniMessage format docs get a do over for argument names? They are incosistent, for example sometimes they are named _key_ and sometimes key. We also clearly can't decide on a universal way of saying "hey this argument can appear zero or more times"
pliant canopy
<@813141164281692170> <a:yap:1281302133081374785>
shush
wooden pier
Hi everyone, I need version 1.21.11 of paper, but I can't find it on the site. Can someone please send me one?
spice temple
its the discussion channel for https://github.com/PaperMC/docs, the new paper documentation https://docs.papermc.io/
ashen kayak
oooooooo
severe citrus
oh!
ashen kayak
I might end up helping with that.
spice temple
thats the idea of this channel
weary condor
yay docs!
ashen kayak
I might end up helping with that.
Considering how outdated and non-centralised a lot of existing Bukkit documentation is.
ashen kayak
I'll try writing a few pages later I guess.
spice temple
I am not sure if that is in scope, but I would be in favor doing so, as peter said, stuff is really fragmented, and with the path paper is on, one centralized place as a single source of truth would be really nice, if we can maintain it properly
ashen kayak
I'll write some stuff later I guess.
spice temple
please discuss here first, we don't even have contributing guidelines yet and stuff ^^
ashen kayak
Of course.
green shuttle
Id love to see basic api docs as well, currently I dont really have a good idea of what methods paper adds. I know of them as people point them out to me, like the new view distance api added for players
and from papers pov, it might push more people to abandon spigot
echo canyon
Where’s the link to that javadoc diff thing?
last bear
that's kind of useful, but more extensive docs on our larger apis like async chunk loading, mob goals and components (with links to adventure docs) would obviously be better
last bear
lol
spice temple
So it's outdated basically
green shuttle
that's *kind of* useful, but more extensive docs on our larger apis like async c...
without an overview taking me to extensive docs I kind of wouldnt know what to search for
spice temple
But generally, I don't believe documenting changes from Bukkit or spigot is the way to go, we want to be the single source of truth, the new baseline, not an addon
green shuttle
would be nice to have a simple bullet list at least of "this is what paper adds" that takes me to the info I want. Like the creature pre spawn event.
does this exist somewhere?
spice temple
Issue is, it's soooo much
spice temple
On old forums I tried to document something like that and it became outdated too quick to be worth anybody's time
That was a really dum approach
green shuttle
lmao I didnt realize this didnt exist in bukkit yet. I made my own methods
yeah I can see now
spice temple
But like, we have 370 API patches
It's soooooo much stuff
Just documenting all adventure changes alone would be a big job, lol
green shuttle
that bullet list at least is a very good start though
spice temple
It was my paraphrasing the patches
green shuttle
maybe put it below categories (entities, player, chat, etc.) ?
spice temple
It's right in the middle of too much to read fully, and too less detail for a proper reference
green shuttle
then drop it on the wiki so at least something exist, because its nice to see
last bear
tho you should bring that over to the new forums just for old reference's sake, or at least before the old forums are yeeted
green shuttle
already just reading it theres stuff I didnt know existed that piqued my interest
spice temple
But the same would happen it you would scroll thru the API patches list
If I would do that list again, I would force a naming convention in patch message bodies and export a list out of that
green shuttle
you could enforce a sort of tag per patch that corresponds to a wiki page
then when people write a patch they also write short documentation about it
spice temple
Maybe not a bad idea, in all API patches have a category: player, title: some title, description: one or two sentences targered at devs
And maybe a way to exclude patches from the wiki
Yeah I don't hate that
ashen kayak
Yes but it means you get the headache of changing basically all of patch descriptions.
green shuttle
if you never start that headache grows ever bigger
ashen kayak
At least that's what I think based on my very crude understanding of how the patch system works.
last bear
the docs page isn't for every piece of api to get its own explanation there, mini's diff page would just be exactly that; it should be for a more broad overview and actual use case examples for the more complicated/larger api additions
ashen kayak
Something I wanna learn at some point.
green shuttle
maybe docs for this could be committed alongside the patch in a subdirectory
but yeah, I didnt realize just how many apis there were lol
last bear
example docs should be entirely separate from our code repository
supple comet
its the discussion channel for https://github.com/PaperMC/docs, the new paper do...
👀 ooh
When was that made public?
spice temple
Idk, I guess I did
oak quiver
spice temple
I already put that into the topic
young matrix
I talked about it in #general, and it's a public repo on github. I was going to put a message here when this channel was created but got super distracted with other stuff
just a few notes though: It's not done at all. so please don't link anywhere permanent as the urls will change for each doc.
Also some issues I'm aware of- the colouring is super weird in some spots
spice temple
Np I got ya, did you see the question about the scope?
young matrix
also code blocks/prism syntax highlighting needs fixing
no
I'm at work now though but will reread this all tonight
spice temple
Like, Peter wanted to write more general plugin guides
young matrix
yeah I think thats in scope
spice temple
Cool!
spice temple
Yeah I really liked the idea too
young matrix
generally I want to replace bukkit/spigot wiki
fair river
that will be nice especially the bukkit part because wiki isnt up-to-date
young matrix
would it be useful to have an official example plugin? nothing like userdev just a barebones example repo showing how to get the api with maven/gradle that just logs something with the logger
it's really simple, but its also a common enough question. and then you also see people doing things like shading the api into their plugin, which this would hopefully avoid a bit for super new people
could also use the github template repo thing
hexed atlas
Like test-plugin?
young matrix
sorta like this https://github.com/FabricMC/fabric-example-mod but even more simple
hmm yeah idk how best to do both maven and gradle
maybe just gradle 
last bear
tell maven users they're wrong
neon atlas
could just use a separate branch
with gradle being the default one because we recommend
hexed atlas
Yeah tbh
eager plover
does that work with template repos?
hexed atlas
Any "fresh new plugin" should by default be gradle
neon atlas
hmm, haven't tried how template repos work that way
young matrix
yeah pretty sure that'd end up with a maven branch on everyones repo
eager plover
Like, ideally you'd select one or the other, not "fuck around and clone this repo, checkout X branch, delete the one you don't want/rename or whatever fuckaround"
young matrix
ah, looks like it only includes the default branch by default, but you can check a box to have it do all branches
does not look like you can do a specific other branch though
last bear
just do kotlin gradle, it's just as easy as maven if you have enough templates and things to copy from and devs don't actively shoot themselves in the foot if they later want to use userdev or have more complicated setups with multi platform support for example
young matrix
yeah that seems fine, it'd really be primarily aimed at people completely new to build tools anyways
last bear
people usually stick with what you give them at the start/the most examples for
young matrix
if you're already familiar with maven https://papermc.io/using-the-api should be more than enough
last bear
you could mention the mcdev IJ plugin templates for maven as an alternative in the README
young matrix
Are those still maintained/working? Last I looked they wouldn't work for 1.17/18 due to the java version bump, they specified 8
Although that was a few months ago, let me look
last bear
otherwise ping den internally and kindly ask about it lol
eager plover
the plugin templates?
Yea, worked fine last I used it, I think I did need to change the version in the config though
elfin lotus
my main issue with those templates is ppl dont know what things do so later on we get people with maven resource filtering mangling binary files and dont even know that they have resource filtering on
scenic gull
As a lover of maven I would be okay with just a Gradle example plugin. It's clearly the fancier way to go without added complexity.
scenic gull
When Gradle offers me something I want that's less convenient to do in maven I'll switch. I take my time. 🙂
Also, while I don't know the current state of things, last time I put in serious effort investigating migration there was no equally simple alternative to Overmapped which I was using for a few goofy things.
eager plover
hey, am just here to pull your leg ;P
ashen kayak
Gonna attempt to write a simple plugin guide
/docs/paper/
Isn't "how-to" basically the same as "tutorial"?
spice temple
my main issue with those templates is ppl dont know what things do so later on w...
The template should only enable filtering for stuff that is needed, if not that's 100% on the template
elfin lotus
yes, that's exactly my issue
same thing with shading, WG's docs explicitly use provided/compileOnly in the examples https://worldguard.enginehub.org/en/latest/developer/dependency/#build-script-dependency but people still manage to shade it in constantly and when we tell them that they're just like "what's that"
this isn't an attack on guides or templates, just a warning that if you give someone something and say "just use this it just works" you're letting them shoot themselves in the foot.
young matrix
Isn't "how-to" basically the same as "tutorial"?
My idea was to split up if you're focusing on accomplishing a specific goal, say enabling anti xray for all worlds using pet world configs, or if you're wanting to learn about something/further understand it, without necessary having an explicit goal in mind
That might change though (and feedback of course welcome)
spice temple
same thing with shading, WG's docs explicitly use provided/compileOnly in the ex...
Reeeeeeeee
If I wouldn't be so tired I would PR a fix, lol
ashen kayak
Well I am currently working on a walkthrough for creating a plugin which covers Maven, Gradle (Groovy), and Gradle (Kotlin) as well as Java and Kotlin. I am probably gonna put it in /docs/paper/plugin-development/getting-started
young matrix
Yeah that was something I wasn't quite sure how to handle, splitting user vs. plugin dev stuff
As there is a lot that is shared
I considered just combining what the velocity docs do and what the paper docs do now, but that seemed like way to many categories
As in for each 'type' (reference, tutorial, how-to) you'd get another subcategory of dev vs. user
ashen kayak
Probably just better having a "plugin development" and "server management" category
young matrix
Or actually the other way around would probably be better
ashen kayak
Well I am currently working on a walkthrough for creating a plugin which covers ...
This will be pain because I don't know Maven.
young matrix
Yeah I guess that works. Something else I need to redo that I'm not currently sure of is the urls for each page, should it be something like /paper/how-to-enable-anti-xray or /paper/users/how-to/enable-anti-xray
That is not what I meant to send
Mobile keyboard strikes again. What I meant is: you can probably skip maven if you are writing something like that, or cover it sparsely
ashen kayak
So far the first page is just "go download intellij" and then "this tutorial covers maven, gradle, kotlin, etc... pick one" along with "if you don't know what this means do gradle (kotlin dsl) w/ java"
Obviously with a few more words
ashen kayak
I have to collect so many screenshots.
proud pendant
You should be able to have multiple branches in the template repo, but i'm not sure if its possible to switch between which one you want
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/53908556/best-approach-for-git-repo-template-with-multiple-branches but this post seems to suggest you can have multiple branches
bold sequoia
Ummm, what is the difference between https://docs.papermc.io/velocity and https://velocitypowered.com/wiki?
fair river
You will want to follow papermc.io one. It’s in the process of migrating over and I think the above mentioned one is more up-to-date
weary condor
isn't there a third, even more outdated velocity docs? when will these be removed or redirected?
supple comet
Yeah, that's https://docs.velocitypowered.com/
young matrix
I can't speak to it on the velocity side so much. But I plan to do this for papers docs once all of the content has been moved over and the urls are not going to change
fair river
Yeah that’s the reason I didn’t mention it sulu
viral jolt
What's the difference between the Tutorial and How To sections? If there isn't a reason for them to be separate, I think these two categories should be merged.
crimson spear
tutorials are for learning concepts and how to apply them, how-tos are how to solve a specific problem
young matrix
The initial idea was that ^ so that as more stuff is added you don't have one humongous category. For example a "how to enable anti xray" guide would go into tutorials, while "how to use the x API" would go into how-to guides
Although just separating by developer focused / server owner focus might do that enough itself, I'm not sure
As well I want to change all of the individual page urls to be /paper/aikars-flags or even /paper/why-aikars-flags etc. Rather than /paper/tutorials/aikars-flags so that stuff can be rearranged later down the line should that be necessary without breaking everything (the java update guide already does this)
So merging for the moment might be the best bet
fair river
Sulu thank you for doing this 
viral jolt
While my own opinion, I think a good tree would look something like this:
Paper
Getting Started
*Tutorials that allow someone to get familar with paper*
How to
*Tutorials that more focus on tuning, plugins, preformance, etc.*
Reference
*Documentation of config, folder structure*
Developer
Contributing
Plugins
Etc.
I definitely like the idea of a dedicated getting started section- that is an area I want to add a lot more to as the current docs there are anything but helpful to a completely new user
and you're probably right about merging how-to/tutorials now that I think about it more
only thing I'm not really sure about is if development should be an its own section at the same level as all the user stuff or as its own broader section
actually, do we want contrib docs there?
cc @eager plover I know you had thoughts on this when I talked about it earlier- last two messages
viral jolt
I was thinking development should have its own getting started, its own reference, and its own totorials.
Do you mean that development guides should be within the larger Paper section, or should be it's own "root" section?
young matrix
I'm not quite sure. what I had in my mind when I started this was something like
Paper
├── Users
│ ├── How to
│ │ └── Getting Started
│ ├── Tutorials
│ └── Reference
└── Developer
├── How to
└── ...
but, people probably will want user focused stuff more. having it be more prominent makes sense
and just having two second-level categories is a bit weird to navigate, albeit it would feel better to have the files that way
what might make sense is have the files ordered like I have here, but sidebar more like what you've got
although that might just be unnecessary complication
viral jolt
That makes sense, clear separation between user and developer documentation is important
Is there another project that has a problem like this?
young matrix
I had looked around at a lot of different peoples docs, two that I mainly took inspiration from is the cloudflare workers docs at https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/ and the discord4j docs at https://docs.discord4j.com - neither of these have this distinction.
I haven't really found anyone else doing something similar
viral jolt
What about the bukkit or spigot docs?
young matrix
most people with a similar user/developer deal seem to have two docs sites, one that is your classic kb type thing and another for developers that is more like what we have now
bukkit does a similar split, although their docs have a very different feel as a wiki https://bukkit.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page
viral jolt
hm alright
young matrix
and pretty much the same for spigot, just a bit more like what you suggested https://www.spigotmc.org/wiki/spigot/
it doesn't seem super ideal- but I'm not coming up with much better and its fine. There aren't any big issues. I can't even really come up with a specific fault.
viral jolt
Discord.js has this dropdown in their documentation. I'm not sure what they use for their documentation, but if docusarus can do something like this, I could see that as being a great way to separate the info
young matrix
hmm, that's interesting. they use something custom (pretty sure it's just autogenerated from jsdoc or something) but can definitely still do that here. let me take a look
young matrix
I played around with that a bit, don't think it's the best way to go as it seems to isolate stuff way too much. I think something like:
paper
├── getting-started
├── how-to
├── reference
└── developers
├── getting-started
├── how-to
└── api-guides(?)
velocity
└── ...
is the best bet
api-guides being spotlights on specific more complex stuff, not sure about that yet
young matrix
I took a shot at it here https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/pull/17
oh shoot that also includes everything from #16
well whatever its fine, enough docs for today
this also splits up the paper.yml reference into two sections: per world and global. this is really just because it was well over 1k lines which was a bit excessive. in the future after config reorganization this will likely be broken up even more
undone drift
undone drift
slate scarab
You're using the same doc library as us if you're still confused
undone drift
i agree
eager plover
he did say something about inspiration
fair river
Make it red
eager plover
and, "finders keepers"
small harbor
#00A7E9 makes it quite a bit better already
eager plover
(jk)
small harbor
fair river
@undone drift 
undone drift
@small harbor @fair river 
last bear
There already is https://papermc.github.io/docs-previews/pull/16/
grizzled glacier
discord colors
young matrix
looks like we might have both seen the same thing at some point :p
also on how to best split users/developers stuff, just scrolling through all of my screenshots/links I saw how its done on the https://saleor.io docs which might be an interesting approach. tbh I don't really like how separate it is though. but worth considering doing something like that rather than what i've done now
undone drift
looks like we might have both seen the same thing at some point :p
I have never seen that tbh
what site is that on
young matrix
Not sure where/if it's actually used, but it was a concept someone posted in the docusaurus discord (dyte?)
Just looking back some of my early notes are super not detailed, just a bunch of screenshots. Let me find it to see if it's deployed somewhere
And it wasn't dyte https://docs.dyte.io
fair river
@undone drift gonna join to help paper make epic doc site?? 
undone drift
<@!290921387655430144> gonna join to help paper make epic doc site?? <a:Hype:646...
I should probably theme mine first LMAO
supple comet
Thanks for the hard work on the new docs 
young matrix
Is anyone aware if github plans to keep codespaces free for individuals/if there is anything else similar?
I'm working on a more in depth first time contributor guide and am thinking that is the way to go. seems super clean. Best thing I've found officially is https://docs.github.com/en/billing/managing-billing-for-github-codespaces/about-billing-for-codespaces which just says
Codespaces usage is billed for all accounts on the Team and Enterprise plans, and does not include any entitlements. Individual accounts are not currently billed for Codespaces usage.
which somewhat insinuates billing is planned for the future
deft gulch
😳
supple comet
Gitpod is a free (iirc) alternative for like 50 hours a month
fickle harbor
May be just me, but the link to the repository confused me, I wanted to like select Paper for the docs, and got redirected to the github
neon atlas
young matrix
tbh that page is only there for parity
I'm on mobile right now, but feel free to stick it https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/blob/main/docusaurus.config.js#L155 here
you have write
echo canyon
Oh how did I not see that when I went looking yesterday
is the api gettings its own subdomain? or are we still linking to papermc.io/api/docs?
young matrix
I don't know. Afaik the plan is to move everything over to subsomains at some point in the future. New docs/forums are the start of that
echo canyon
ok, so ill just make the link "https://papermc.io/api.docs"
young matrix
Now that it's been brought up, I am actually sorta curious about integrating the api docs into this, or at least connect them a bit more
Don't think API.docs is a thing
Yeah that 404s
echo canyon
you have write
oh I dont think I can have write to main branch, but I can push to other branches in the repo. made a PR
young matrix
Oh that must have come when I enabled branch protection, shoot
I'll look at that later
echo canyon
I wonder if, instead of commenting on the PR with the link to the preview, it should just edit pr description with it.
it won't happen too often I think, but its just more stuff in #paper-github
young matrix
Oh good idea
young matrix
Now that it's been brought up, I am actually sorta curious about integrating the...
Quick google led me to https://rohit-gohri.github.io/redocusaurus/, although I'm sure there's something similar for swagger/it wouldn't be too hard to make one
And there is also https://www.npmjs.com/package/swagger-ui-react
. Latest version: 4.6.2, last published: 7 hours ago. Start using swagger-ui-react in your project by running npm i swagger-ui-react. There are 23 other projects in the npm registry using swagger-ui-react.
So while I haven't tried it, sounds very simple to integrate openapi docs
spice temple
Hangar integrates it too
Even to hangar is Vue and swagger ui is react
Just give it a div with an id and call the ctor to mount it and be done
Code for that
undone drift
vue 
gaunt walrus
young matrix
deft gulch
just saw the new /flags page, docs look noice 😄
gloomy oar
Great work on the new docs
young matrix
more stuff will go under there, other than just config
last bear
why
young matrix
that's the idea behind it at least
when there is more it can probably be broken down more
but currently that does look confusing, yeah
young matrix
here was my original plan #staff message
although looking at it again all I had thought about for there is pretty much config of some sort for the moment, so renaming makes sense I guess
let me copy/paste that for others reading
sulu (he/him) — 19/02/2022
for the docs organization under each project, my general idea is to organize it under categories like this:
reference - stuff like commands.yml, the paper.yml docs. giving you information about something, but not necessarily with a specific goal/etc.
explanations - how do permissions work? stuff like that
tutorials - basic plugin guide, stuff like you mentioned
how to x guides - guides focused on a specific task and not so much learning, like how to setup anti-xray or so
thats obviously not exactly what it is now ^. also said a few messages down there, that layout idea loosely based on the old cf worker docs
actually, just thinking about it again other stuff I had planned for that section was the built in command overview and system properties
I should really create an issue and write all this down
last bear
actually, just thinking about it again other stuff I had planned for that sectio...
so all Configuration
yeah the rest sounds good tho
young matrix
commands aren't config, but I guess its close yeah
young matrix
echo canyon
whoops I totally just accidentally clicked that button
yikes
was going to comment and instead of the txt box, my cursor was just on the button
young matrix
at least it wasn't merge 🙂
echo canyon
I can't merge. prob needs approvals
eager plover
don't give him ideas
young matrix
oh hmm let me try to fix that
there aren't codeowners
oh it was branch protection, should be fixed
last bear
Otherwise I’d just give the config files their own category instead of cramming commands in there? Since we’re going to fix them up soon enough with lots of different sections that may be better suited with sub categories, also as like one of the main thing people would want to look up
I’m also not sure about the guide vs tutorial distinction, at least I wouldn’t know what I could expect in either category (also when looking for dev tools vs server admin things)
young matrix
my hope is if it is done fully with comments and such config reference docs can go away entirely
young matrix
I’m also not sure about the guide vs tutorial distinction, at least I wouldn’t k...
thats gone, there was way more discussion about the organization since that message (scroll back to first ~75 messages in this channel / my reorg pr)
rather, all config docs would just be specific highlights of different sections, like anti-xray, packet-limiter, etc.
that would make sense in its own section, or maybe just subsection I'm not sure
last bear
Ah alright
echo canyon
ah yes @young matrix 1.2k files changed
I feel like you forgot add smth to .gitignore
young matrix
that is supposedly the preferred way to do things
echo canyon
wat
odd harborBOT
young matrix
i'm not sure about it at all
echo canyon
comitting a ton of compressed files?
young matrix
there are more changes than that though, opening a pr now with description
I kinda hate it but yeah supposedly it is the new correct way to do stuff
so probably going to end up dropping that part and just leaving the rest
young matrix
ok- it does what it says on the tin. it removes the need to yarn install and works better with web based text editors/ides. but it also takes 50x longer to clone, and will be humongous diff whenever packages are updated. so not really sure how it makes sense despite it technically being preferred
so will not be doing that. just pnp/swc
spice temple
That looks really cursed tbh
Idk who would prefer that, I have never seen it before
young matrix
Don't have much here yet but just for opinion: what are people's thoughts on highlighting specific plugins/not plugin software? Such as for a "how do permissions work" thing under getting started, would talking about luckperms (almost exclusively, as the main focus) be ok?
grizzled glacier
as in like specific categories for common functionality that server owners would want, and recommended plugins for that purpose?
young matrix
Yeah
grizzled glacier
that sounds great
young matrix
Yeah, it sounds great. Only issue is I'm not sure it's entirely ok for paper to pick out one specific plugin
grizzled glacier
why not show many?
young matrix
I've already nixed any reference to specific shared hosts because that was getting a bit out of hand, not sure if that's the same route this might go down
grizzled glacier
Just have a stars on github requirement or something so people wont post their plugins after they make it or something like that
young matrix
Yeah I guess just being super general and then having a list of some possibilities at the end could probably work
grizzled glacier
also, is there a place where users can put guides for common things that people would code in plugins? or should those be put on the forums?
young matrix
Depends what it is. Much more development docs is on the todo list for here, but at least for me a much lower priority than user getting started stuff. But I'd be more than happy to accept prs for most of that type of stuff here. Else the forums
That's another place when recommending other external stuff comes in. Some of the first things I want to add are event API, scheduler, and command API. But for command API, should that mention stuff like cloud? What about ACF? Etc.
grizzled glacier
redlib too
young matrix
It'd be a bit of a disservice not to, but then you get into why not x and personal opinions vs what is just in paper itself, as crappy as it may be
Idk, something to think about
neon atlas
Dunno if a list of utility suits like redlib is too useful
spice temple
Shouting out industry leading open source plugins when we have good relation to the authors doesn't hurt
grizzled glacier
Dunno if a list of utility suits like redlib is too useful
redlib has a individual package for their command lib
spice temple
Like, luck perms is the de facto standard for perms and generally really high quality
young matrix
Actually you say it's not too useful but that's not such a bad idea, a general community projects page. Could isolate it from the rest of the more objective docs
neon atlas
Yea that could be promoted in command frameworks
grizzled glacier
yeah, but for commands, there isn’t really a defacto standard
if you’re adding library sections I can write a section on redlib too and some other libs I find very useful for developement
neon atlas
Actually you say it's not too useful but that's not such a bad idea, a general c...
Oh you mean like a general discovery page ?
young matrix
Yeah, wasn't thinking that initially but now I sorta am. Could have it more isolated/clearly marked. Not sure though, that has it's awfulness too
grizzled glacier
that sounds a lot better, since if you maintain some documentation about plugins then you will have to update docs over time as the plugins update
neon atlas
because I can see the pain points in "I need permissions", "I need guis", "I need commands". Where as "I need a nicer development workflow" is going to be very subjective
eager plover
as I said for why I wanted a more wiki like setup was for allowing more open source documentation which can be accurate towards users
us noting LP up there in some respects isn't great, but, in terms of providing a guide for perms to server owners who wanna get started, I don't think that there even really is any alternatives
it's like if you was doing a doc for devs on protocol stuff, not including PL in there would just be a waste of an article
supple thicket
||wdym, Bukkit's permissions.yml is a perfectly functional permissions solution||
fair river
grizzled glacier
the problem then becomes will you allow “premium” and “freemium”(free but premium support) to be shown there too?
young matrix
No
neon atlas
👀
young matrix
At least I'd definitely not
eager plover
I mean, that's where the nuance gets
grizzled glacier
because for example TAB is opensource but if you want support you gotta pay
eager plover
this is basically a wiki for server owners within the OSS ecosystem
we're not tryna document other peoples plugins as such
it's just in this area, there is literally 0 alternatives towards LP which are OSS, free, and are well made/supported
fair river
I think luckperm is popular enough to be the standard and is a nice additions to the wikis, I've seem enough of horrid story on people whos sticking with PAX or whatever godknows where the hell they got it from permission plugin causing issues in #paper-help
eager plover
Like, you could explain perms in a much weaker concept, for the most part I would defer towards the official wiki, but, I think understanding that perms exist and such is important
grizzled glacier
then you’re gonna have less than 5 plugins, most plugins have many opinnionated alternatives that people may prefer, maybe a comprasion chart would be nice?
eager plover
I mean, that just gets into BS marketing crap and potential back and forths which I don't really wanna deal with
there are just many areas where there are defacto standards that it's kinda hard not to include them in creating documentation
grizzled glacier
there arent that many areas that have defacto standards
what others are there except lp
grizzled glacier
whats pl
eager plover
protocollib
grizzled glacier
ohh
eager plover
and, I don't really see outside of that where tutorials would come up which need to go into specific solutions
fair river
there arent that many areas that have defacto standards
I think those should be left to community contributed resources and not in official docs as the goal of a "docs" is to provide a guidance for the most basic stuffs that a new server owner would want. idk we are areally on the sasme topic but I just want to aadd on to that.
grizzled glacier
I started this by talking about plugins/librarys for adding to existing plugins
not necessarily just for server owners
eager plover
I mean, it's nuanced
grizzled glacier
hence a comprasion chart
eager plover
awesome lists are cool, but, are somewhat political in nature
comparision charts are really best dealt with externally given that we can't validate their claims
young matrix
Tbh not sure if that's something I'd want to maintain
After seeing some ideas on this, I'm very much leaning to just make recommendations when there is really only one primary option
grizzled glacier
theres only two places that would work afaik^
young matrix
Such as for a permission guide, "here are how permissions work... You can/should use luckperms to manage them rather than permissions.yml"
eager plover
yea, but afaik those are the only real places where such stuff is gonna come up if chosen to be in there
fair river
Agreed. The potential for backslash is outweighting the benefit and I trust the server owner to find those more "adnvanced" resource as let's be honest, outside of popular server network and some wannabe pvp server made by 12 year old, TAB (plugin) isnt really a necessary plugin for people hosting for their friends/small servers which is what paper largely made out of and the group of people who may require help are also in the same bracket...
eager plover
permissions - which could do with a good general intro of how they work, I'm really iffy around suggesting LP, but, given that that is the defacto standard and the first thing people will recommend on the discord, it's like, eeehhhh
young matrix
Going back to earlier about premium stuff, just to clarify on what I said, a plugin like tab wouldn't classify under that because they charge for support. But don't think I'm going to go down that route anyways
grizzled glacier
that makes sense
scenic gull
LP, PL, WE, WG, and of course FUUID 🤔
Actual opinion though, as an open source but paid support dev: keep the pages 100% free without any stuff that would need users paying to get help
mild cairn
Don't have much here yet but just for opinion: what are people's thoughts on hig...
I see no problem in linking recommended software/docs. Imo it's a good idea. However, I wouldn't add any plugin specific stuff like commands or special features of the plugin itself into the docs. Most large plugins have their own updated docs that should be used and linked to. Otherwise this lead to redundant and outdated info in the long run.
young matrix
Yeah that wasn't the idea, definitely not something I want/would want others to maintain
nimble canopy
(Sorry if this question is stupid) Will this doc contain some specific Paper APIs overviews?
young matrix
As in what does paper have in addition to spigot? Maybe, not sure on the best way to handle that as there is a lot of tiny stuff such, but could possibly cover some big stuff. I do want to have something about "why is #sendMessage(String) deprecated???" As that's a pretty common question
If you mean summaries for more complicated apis/stuff you'd need to get started such as event API, paper goal API, etc. Yes. But it's somewhat low priority atm
nimble canopy
I think that API for world gen deserve that
young matrix
Yeah, that's not something I'm really familiar with, but sounds like something that would fit.
fair river
If you ever wan to make a list for paper vs spigot, keep it simple for beginner only
fair river
as anyone who are curious enough will be able to do their own research and people who aiant that interested will just get bored and leave halfway tbh
eager plover
world gen is nuanced as are some of the "deeper" APIs as they're often either kinda patchwork for legacy stuff (e.g. the world gen stuff), or, require some kinda understanding of how the wider mechanism in vanilla works (mob AI, goals AI in the future, etc)
fair river
so a handful of key point should be good
mild cairn
Yeah that wasn't the idea, definitely not something I want/would want others to ...
Yeah but you said
almost exclusively, as the main focus
which is a bit contradicting.
I'd rather keep it general and mention/link LP and its docs, saying that it should be used to actually manage perms.
eager plover
Part of the nuance is finding the balance
young matrix
Ah yeah, you're right. Poor phrasing on my part. What I meant by that more was not focusing on plugin specifics, but only recommending it over permissions.yml and not talking about bungeeperms++ or whatever else
eager plover
See, when I did propose redoing the docs from the top, I did want a more "wiki like" set of info
Like, covering things which have changed in paper, e.g. all of the perm nodes we've added, maybe built in command additions vs vanilla, replace the old CB/Spigot wiki
but, also, I did kinda wanna open the floor to good quality tutorials, e.g. how to mysql properly, is a good one from a dev perspective
young matrix
That is my exactly goal long term
eager plover
user stuff gets more nuanced, like, you don't wanna clone LPs documentation for example, they already maintain their stuff and if we're recommending their stuff, it'd be a good idea to set people up to use that
young matrix
Part of where this came from
eager plover
but, ofc, it's hard not to recommend their set of tooling and their documentation as a whole for the wider picture
young matrix
Already have a permission nodes/commands locally, commands unfinished
eager plover
(especially as perm plugins generally just completely strip out the built in perm system, you have to note that bukkit doesn't support wildcard perms, but, quite literally every competent perm plugin adds them)
mild cairn
Ah yeah, you're right. Poor phrasing on my part. What I meant by that more was n...
Yeah, then I think it's a good idea. It just shouldn't result in a "How to use LP" tutorial instead of the actual topic "perms and .yml".
young matrix
Finishing up permission reference is what made me ask this, wanting to link something about how perms actually work
fair river
Maybe recommendation with a proof of concept of an easy setup? Like basic grouping: member/moderator/admin and their respective permission (like ultra basic setup) so the beignner gets an idea and with a link to the official lunkperm wiki if they are willing to dig deeper themselves?
Kinda like how you explained the per-world config with a simple and easy to understand example
young matrix
Don't really know if I'd want to go into groups/inheritance, as that isn't a native concept, other than mentioning they exist. Was thinking more just a "what is a permission" type thing, mostly for people who only know about op levels/don't know at all. Not something for more experienced people at all
And perms are a lot more complicated than people think, they're actually a tristate etc.
Or, well, thats how most competent implementation represent them
grizzled glacier
LP, PL, WE, WG, and of course FUUID 🤔
Actual opinion though, as an open source...
whats fuuid?
serene vault
citizens
Not sure if I would recommend Citizens in such a list, as it can be pretty heavy
green kernel
Citizens is to heavy for most task. Not a fan of it.
Thanks to MobGoal API and disguising of entities, I recommend implementing something yourself.
serene vault
would be very nice if the mob goal api got a guide in the docs, its a bit too complicated to be understood by just reading the javadocs imo
echo canyon
yeah, I think general topics like that are planned to have a guide
because I agree that javadocs are not the best way to convey information for a whole api section
grizzled glacier
please lmk if you are accepting player made guides, because I would love to contribute some things I've picked up while making plugins
serene vault
its a public github repo, I guess you could just open a PR
echo canyon
check with sulu before putting in a large amount of work, Im guessing hes thought about this a bit in terms of formatting and where stuff goes
grizzled glacier
^^ thats why im asking
eager plover
Depends on the specifics of the topics you wanna write for, generally
Feel free to pr, but, you can discuss stuff here as for if there is much interest in it being there before you spend time on a topic
young matrix
Yeah, totally open to 99% of stuff, just ask here about what you have planned before putting in a bunch of work.
And if it doesn't quite fit, iirc the forums has a section for guides. But odds are it will
grizzled glacier
I just wanted to write something short to start the page about how to make custom heads using paper's api
young matrix
Yeah, that could definitely work. It's something often done improperly. I'd have to think about how to best fit stuff like that in, there isn't currently a great place for task oriented dev guides
echo canyon
I think at the start, just a whole section for guides works
I think itll be easier to work out navigation for them as more guides are created
young matrix
Yeah, was thinking the same thing
Can use slugs that wouldn't need to change as the sidebar changes, so something like /paper/dev/creating-custom-heads
echo canyon
yeah
echo canyon
why is there a top level section like this?
seems odd if its just 1 thing, shouldn't everything in it be top-level?
young matrix
that's a bug, it didn't used to be like that
let me see where that came from
ok, I see. that's my mistake. didn't notice that. will fix in a moment
plucky lichen
that last PR on docs looks like a bot
thick iris
that last PR on docs looks like a bot
Probably the dependabot
plucky lichen
is from somebody
echo canyon
yeah they clearly didn't read sulu's response to their previous one
thick iris
Last PR is this - https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/pull/38
The last like 5 prs are human
I’m confused
scenic gull
@narrow fulcrum buddy, that's not how you contribute quality documentation.
thick iris
Craftbukkit = peak documentation wym
scenic gull
It was, for 2011/12 when we wrote a lot of that stuff
echo canyon
is the header navbar bg color supposed to be the same for light and dark mode?
echo canyon
you can use the Omit<Type, prop> type to exclude a property from a type
young matrix
Oh, didn't know that. Thanks. Only saw Partial<Type> which wouldn't have been ideal
scenic gull
This claim of yours is not a reasonable response to my remark.
fair river
It shell be a complete rewrite with new and up-to-date information and not just a copy paste of entire old site… 
scenic gull
Copy/pasting a ten year old plugin tutorial is not the way to start, though.
So you're saying you didn't even put in any actual effort, either? Please don't make further "contributions" of this nature.
fair river
Yes that’s nice but the whole idea of having a brand new doc hosted on paper resource is that:
1️⃣ Information is updated to current version
2️⃣ format is improved and easier for user to read and use.
3️⃣ it’s very nice of you trying to help but the manual change shell be included in the original PR and not just a copy paste.
Yes
scenic gull
They are obvious steps for anyone we want contributing.
young matrix
ok, wrote my own version of a pugin installation guide for the getting started section, mostly motivated by this/someone in #paper-help a few hours ago https://github.com/PaperMC/docs/pull/41. feedback appreciated.
fair river
On the error message, idk if you want to keep it simple but another few common mistakes I know newbie made is: Ambiguous plugin names. Often the result of user not removing older files as it’s not an automate process / accidentally left over old files. @young matrix
mild cairn
You should see your freshly installed plugin listed.
It should be listed and colored green iirc.
fair river
Otherwise, I think the length is perfect as any longer will not fit the average attention spin of Minecraft player
mild cairn
> You should see your freshly installed plugin listed.
It should be listed and c...
(Plugins can also be marked with '*' in the /plugins output (I think outdated api version?), but I think that stuff should be described in separat command docs.)
echo canyon
is it outdated api version, or legacy material enabled
supple comet
legacy
mild cairn
Idk tbh 😅
echo canyon
oh speaking of which, that needs to be a warn msg
instead of an error one that makes people think smth is wrong
fair river
I mean something is wrong that they are using legacy 
spice temple
mfw I thought I carefully read the PR and then kenny comes in with 50 mistakes found
spice temple
> You should see your freshly installed plugin listed.
It should be listed and c...
noticed that too and commented it
spice temple
On the error message, idk if you want to keep it simple but another few common m...
please comment that on the PR, so its easier to track
young matrix
On the error message, idk if you want to keep it simple but another few common m...
Added that as well, don't really care about the length in that regard (most people won't read that section). I'm only including most common ones and the full errors so when people Google the error they get it'll hopefully come up
fair river
Yeah that's a good goal I am sure with Paper's traffic, the page rank will get to the top rather quickly
fair river
please comment that on the PR, so its easier to track
I will comment next time I was on my phone last night making that 
orchid saddle
https://docs.papermc.io/paper/getting-started
On the bottom of this page, the arrow for going to the next page just redirects to the same page.
Also happens here: https://docs.papermc.io/velocity/getting-started