#the-silents
1 messages ยท Page 48 of 1
Mini do be making some home renovations right now tho.
just wintergatan things

yo that's cool
(Not in the call right now), but when working with the 1.17 locally, I noticed that running the paperclip jar was starting to cause OOM / Java heap space errors. I managed to fix this by adding some JVM args to the gradle.properties file. Should we consider adding them by default to prevent these kinds of issues from happening?
no
we fix that differently in paperweight by forking off expensive tasks
what task did you run oom on?
./gradlew paperclipJar
This only started occurring after your latest push to 1.17 for the sender fix.
thats not what I meant, which task failed
it will say smth like
* What went wrong:
Execution failed for task ':generateReobfMappings'.
Oh my bad. Sec.
Running it again without the args I put in to try and reproduce it.
* What went wrong:
Execution failed for task ':generateReobfMappings'.
> Java heap space
That's the task that it failed on ๐
thanks
so as I thought
Ahh okay so it's a known issue.
gulp
You guys are literally like always coding huh
Iโd recommend to take a break and watch some European championship football lmao
they take turns
.eta
No bot here? Disappointing
But the #โ-1-17 channel has all the info you need
It's an IRC bot and this channel isn't bridged
not much point bridging a channel for talking about Discord streams ๐
and now they asked in the other channel .. ๐
two
They asked in 3 channels and got yeeted because it wasn't the first time.
Reading is hard I guess ๐
yeah
Just popping in, I have a small community. Is there a .jar that I can slap on a server to try it out?
I have seen #โ-1-17 . If a dev wants me to yolo it with about 10 people, it can be done.
Would strongly advise you don't use those builds on a server you even remotely care about
You only live once bru
The older build is gone anyhow, give them time
I mean.. if you take a backup, and people on the server wont mind that you rollback if smth crazy happens..
oh, right. the link is gone for the moment
Yes the link is gone. We have a open "Dev" server for the communtiy. Backups are trivial.
you can compile it yourself, we're not gonna bother tryna throw our jars to a select bunch given the time and such
Alright, Im not too familiar with your process. We can wait. Thanks for all your work.

@wet lichen can you test something else quickly too?
ok
https://hub.spigotmc.org/jira/browse/SPIGOT-6526 someone said that was fixed in Spigot but not in Paper
copy that code and see if the previously added entities are logged when you restart again
or just spawn a bunch of entities at spawn with spawneggs, then restart with the plugin
also try with keep spawn chunks loaded enabled and disabled
Oh, so I probably also have this issue on latest paper commit...
Need to retest for this specific problem, but it would explain weird behaviour of my plugin
since I just saw a post on the forums, is changing from spigot to paper safe?
We want to start a SMP in a week, if paper isn't somewhat stable until then we thought about using spigot now and update later
paper is as stable as spigot I guess
it just doesn't satisfy our quality standards
wait for 1.17.1
are you talking about vanilla 1.17.1?
well, wait till 1.17.1 lands in paper ^^
but yes 1.17.1 will fix some critical issues
I hope you don't have to start applying your patches from the beginning ๐
Is a 1.17.1 confirmed by the โjang?
there's a pre release 
Link? I canโt seem to find it
so... no paper 1.17?
nah minor updates are nobrainers
Nope ๐
looks at 1.16.2 
that wasnt minor!
Is MC-223350 related to false occlusion? That's supposedly fixed in 1.17.1 pre-release 1
Looks like it mostly just book and screen packet changes
mfw @hidden torrent keeping the channel alive 
realizes paper secretly made a bot so that if at any moment the dev channel is empty, paper 1.17 development will stop
i take it development is halted until 1.17.1 or something now? (since the vc is empty)
Ppl have lives ^^
lol we're devs. we have no lives ๐
Go back to the paper wage cage, bad dev, no freedom for u
amazing
Just doing my best while we wait.
LOL is this new??? Discord just automatically open up a small window when you play it LOL @small ocean
I was like wtf is that
oh beautiful
LOL
that's normal for cameras
I never knew this behavior lol
its been doing that for month
were you never in vc with cams on? :p
no we only watch anime on VC together before 

@stiff pulsar Is the text facing the right direction now?
brocc hot voice ๐ณ

its so mesmerizing ๐ฎ
now everyone joining is gonna see that
๐ณ
you can exclude yourself from inactivity if you add no table role to that list 
LOL
lyrics
might just turn screen and do development in bed who knows
Bed themed streaming!
i can stream it to twitch if you want to ๐

Quite tired & sick unfortunately
But otherwise enjoying the epic stream
๐
hi @quaint iris 
hi @tribal osprey 
correct
henlo 
so we just chillin listening to mbax's beautiful voice?
& watching stream
ah yes of course
i was ready to vibe for paper asmr
api
well no it wont because mini would be afk for days
Can you ship the old muffin to me?
(Serious)
Get Filipino food
hiiiii
I'll come open a Filipino restaurant in your city if you promise to order it every day
Nice
I'm scared to talk in voice because Larry will bully me
People are automagically suppressed lol
not anymore y'all arent
Iโm dead
WHY DOES IT HURT ARE YOU OKAY
Okay you better not be hurt ๐
i can't deal when it starts again
I can just imagine anyone joining just being all

LMAO
@molten sage mbax one upped our elevator music when waiting for Spigot
did you say taylor swift?????
If you aren't head bobbing to this you're lying to yourself
brb gonna do a thingy thingamajiggy audio thingy
@small ocean steak nite tonite - join me in spirit?
Are you having salad or vege tables with it
of course?
epic
uwu
Larry you're making me hungry
hey Lerry
but I have a strict dinner is ready in exactly 1hr 45 mins from now so I need to waaitt
nomia >:(
neome
mamone
ohhhh well
just fucking reverse my name smh
Hi L๐ฆ rry
yeah
no
nope
I've never heard Larry talk before but his voice sounds like Larry
:)
Lerry hot voice ๐ณ
๐ณ
yes you do
nope

LAAAAAAry
it's pronounced Lerry >:c
@quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris @quaint iris
@Laaarryy
@tribal osprey 
I'm too tired to work, but not tired enough to fall asleep ๐
00:47, yeah.
Prof pls
@valid python I'm getting mod abused by larry
lolno
uwu
you're actually abusing Josh
I'll move it into TS3 then
Wait, I can't disable the video share from mbax?
Good evening gentlemen. Thanks for making great things! Keep it up!
brainfarting so hard rn
interesting
wat u want
:(
i love u
oh im quiet?

wait @cyan wolf can I borrow you in 20-ish minutes?
yeah
ok, might need to test something with u n ben
kk
kinda wonder
why aren't we in typing sounds
cuz then everyone can talk 
alright i'm gonna head to bed i think
gn for real this time 
"gn"
sits in bed for 2 hours browsing youtube and random sites
@finite blaze Nice! What cut is that, I'm not good at identifying
@fair prawn welcome to the intermission!
Filet mignon :)

It was absolutely delicious
!!!!!
First time nobody in my family could find anything to complain about/improve !
LARRY I JUST ATE AND NOW I WANT TO EAT AGAIN
Are you?
That actually looks very delicious though
Barely made it, had some mashed potato mishaps, but it ended up being pretty nice!
What's in the white sauce?
It's parmesan, spinach, caramelized chopped onion, mostly
White is maybe 50ml whipping cream and 1.4 cups milk
3/4 cups shredded parm
A fistful of spinach :)
I'm.waiting at the dentist now and am gonna ask if I can have steak tonight
Or maybe lamb ๐คค
@static vessel hello from the BM server
hi
:)
Phone: Sleep
Me: No.
I have to work a double tomorrow 
Imma go, cya!
I ams back
I will be afk
i sleep now
gn
Open Source Enthusiast, stuck in the minecraft community. Paper | Hangar | MiniMessage and countless other projects
how is going?
good
what is he doing?
it literally says it in the bottom right of the stream ?
basicly a tool to confirm if spigot -> mojang mapping -> reobf is working as intended and there identical naming of classes/methods and variables
@feral crane this is basically what that tool should do right? ^
ye
the vscode shows a comparison between paper members and spigot members (paper on the left)
so plugins that fiddle with the unofficial "api" don't break by missing or wrongly named fields
i think with the mojang mapping it would also be way easier to add more api's to control nms things without the risk of way longer update times i asume if mojang doesnt change alot ๐
ye
Is paper using full mojmap now or a frankenstein monster for the time being?
only 8?
Might play around with a sponge on paper then, or vice versa

8 and vscode
He has all that detotated wam
my PC is fine, lol
@dull flax either you join and stay or you leave
BungadaMan trolling
the stream failed
you joined and left 5 times per second
still no need to join and left 294 times
half way thru, this is fuuuun
wooo, done
weee
wait done with what?

That was intense.
we now have a list of all broken reobfuscations
all these in theory could break a plugin
and some I do now break plugins in the wild
so we wanna fix most of them
Very Impressed. โค๏ธ A god at your craft.
how come they're broken?
Well, that's the question
i blame cat
biggest headache is that spigots tooling is broken af
personally
I guess we can agree on that
okay so it's more an issue with what spigot provides than with paperweight?
spigots format is fucked so we need to bend backwards to produce the same result
Whats the options to talk to MD_5 to get it sorted? Maybe he cant code gud-lee
generally nobody else can touch mappings and such and we'd rather just deal with what we can on our and bar tryna make the situation worse
The solution is to remove spigot from the equation
Iโm 100% for this!
HARD FORK
HARD FORK
SOFT SPOON
ROUGH KNIFE
???? SPORK
SOLID PLATE
lol, minidigger is in call with muted mic using phone
You realize you can use discord on multiple devices at once?
hard fork for 1.18? ๐ฎ
Hard fork is most likely to come when @feral crane finally finished Hangar
oh true, i haven't been keeping up with that at all.
Priorities ^^

How many beer does it cost us to make you finish Hangar in 2 months :p
Since youโre pretty much the alcoholic
It's not that simple (tm)
@feral crane then how would we do it then
Ok, time to test this tonight ๐
epic games nitro ๐
shhh
Sorry for the dumb question, but when yโall say in #announcements that 1.17 paper will be available soon, does that mean that itโs also available on hosting services like Cubedhost soon?
every host that uses our api will get access to these builds at the same time as you will see it on the website
if ((checkboxB.getState() == true && checkboxA.getState() == false) || (checkboxA.getState() == true && checkboxB.getState() == false))
if(checkboxA.getState()!=checkboxB.getState()
could've done that but i am the ceo of dumb for a reason
bruh
Okay, thanks!
are the removed but not "no longer needed" patches still going to be worked back in?
possibly
how do you use the v2 download api
the documentation isn't the best
There's a PR open to update the read the docs page for v2 but it's gonna be redone
if you click on any of those GET lines, it provides you with examples
and what kind of data the paths expect
and shows example responses
it seems that the lag spikes crossing chunks does occur in 1.17 according to the bug report about it, but i haven't tested it myself in vanilla, spigot or paper.
asmr typing-sounds
@devout fiber fix your mic i can't hear a single thing you're saying
it's just clipping all over the place
ok
public void cKnop_ActionPerformed(ActionEvent evt) {
if ((checkboxB.getState() == true && checkboxA.getState() == false) || (checkboxA.getState() == true && checkboxB.getState() == false)) {
double epischGetal = Math.random();
epischGetal = epischGetal * 10;
getalVeld.setInt((int) epischGetal);
boolean aState = checkboxA.getState();
boolean bState = checkboxB.getState();
textField1.setText("Checkbox A was " + aState + " en checkbox B was " + bState);
checkboxA.setState(false);
checkboxB.setState(false);
}
} ```
Chunks in the nether arnt loading properly.
On the latest paper.
It's only loading one chunk. Anyone else getting this?
wrong channel
I saw. Fixed
Entity victim = null;
Player attacker = null;
float damage = 1f;
((CraftEntity) victim).getHandle().damageEntity(DamageSource.playerAttack(((CraftPlayer) attacker).getHandle()), damage);
import org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_16_R3.entity.CraftPlayer;
@granite mortar your mic is producing static ๐
apologies. will adjust the threshold
seemed to be an issue with a discord or firefox update (I use the web client)
if(entity instanceof LivingEntity livingEntity)
{
}
it eats butt
yeah but i'm dumb
and my website currently looks like: https://www.monkegame.online
((CraftPlayer)player).getHandle()
imma go, gn people
@proven aspen https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/blob/master/patches/server/0528-Expose-the-Entity-Counter-to-allow-plugins-to-use-va.patch
dunno if you still need it
but this patch introduced the entity counter method
I like cheese
siema kacper
siema
It's the M O N K E B O T P L U G I N
not anymore ๐ฉ
WHAT?!
that's not very pog
wow that's slow
i mean it's not in the same directory at all so
Oh wow
not even on the same partition 
it's not german power that machine
i have a bogus solution atm
also why are they getting slower it should be the other way around
ah
I mean it's like the german invasion, from fast to slow and one day it will disappear because of the high value of time
hyper inflation v2?
g
Everyone should use spark. I first found out about it when I saw it on lunar.gg
@neat scarab You have been successfully granted moderator privileges.
get one?
I usually just use my old phone with an app
cam needs cam?
buy me one?
@tribal osprey shut up
okay
Hello @tribal osprey
@austere island bro.
BRO!
@tribal osprey

Ever since the global ult nerfs, I can't farm botlane as much as I'd like.
Send Sseth Shekels: https://www.paypal.me/Sseth
Send Sseth Shekels per video: https://www.patreon.com/Sseth
FB: https://www.facebook.com/sseth672/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SsethTzeentach
Make games, stories and interactive art with Scratch. (scratch.mit.edu)
rmdir
adding dutch translation to hangar rn 
๐
mecha membrane. Got me good there
xd
Because why not. Contribute to AcmeProject/Gender development by creating an account on GitHub.
its lax ๐
@rose flint you're lucky the mods weren't in the call ๐
Pretty sure they said the n word...
I wasn't sure since I just joined in and people were talking but apparently naomi heard it too
browser discord reveals the shit stream framerate tho 
status on Dutch Hangar: 50% done
man
more productivity than what i did all day
only took about 2 hrs of being hella unfocused
@tribal osprey ๐ฅบ
WAIT APPARENTLY MY HEADPHONES ARE NOT TURNED ON
i'm a leech, I don't like talking but I like listening
is ok
.
sup
๐ฅบ๐ฅบ
what did i do?
read.
@rancid sentinel yes, just focused
i unplugged it and haven't put it back in :P
translating hangar to dutch
pretty well
about ~80-90% done
check#hangar-dev :p
spigot resources but better
yes, and?
idk turkish
@plain sapphire i think turn it into paper instead
๐
@plain sapphire Good luck with,
you never even see
ok buddy
@plain sapphire Come and let's make a Turkish paper with you sometime ๐
I say no problem in Turkish
If you tell me exactly what it is in English, I will help you translate it to Turkish.
i think you're better off getting better at english and doing it yourself ^^;
There are too many English words. It might be better if someone who speaks English can help.
take it easy
then
Good Morning!
larrey 
I'm sowwy

will yall have to rewrite everything for 1.17.1
yes, it might take 3 weeks
How long do you think it will be before Paper is 100% stable on 1.17.
we hope before 1.18 releases
dang lol

If you wanted a fire and forget level of stability it took until probably 1.16.5 to get there last update, according to others who actually run servers
So yeah, it depends on what you mean by stable
@Serializable
public class Thing(val name: String, val thing: Thing = Thing(name))```
@plain sapphire I think I fucked up the mic
check if it's plugged in 
I can't hear you
omg it wasn't
_<
1 secobnd
NOW
no i had that beer alone
yo 10th/11th july beer with @feral crane 7pm CEST typing-sounds live ??
im being serious
Dude I can't plan that far in advance, lmao
tf you mean its like 2 weeks
im down for like a monday beer but I thought you have to work or something
not like next monday
i mean like the 5th
that's only one week
@feral crane
I got next week off work ^^
papermc euw meetup when /s
im paying for your train
that's so fucking pog
im coming
no joke
puting it in my calendar
wait which week the next or the next next?
aight friday right after getting my zeugnis im jumping in the train
don't think my parents are comofrtable with me leaving the country to meet some strangers on the internet 
parents? who tf is parents?
camm <3
G'day 
Australia is about as empty as Canada isโฆ dirt/sand huts is like saying we all live in igloos.
wot
abuse will not be tolerated โ
Iโm replying to the comment in vc by the person who is saying that Australia is only full of sand & dirt huts.
Which is clearly not true.
Who said that
pitviper
true 
+1
- sighs in Canadian *
Canada good 
more north america *
omg that little pepe is adorable!! ๐
facts bro
i'll join on my phone cuz laptop = x_x
||only way to get out is to chew wood||
we all do
@rancid sentinel rules: "just don't"
minecraft java go brrr
just use SKRIPT
it's just python
dunno never used it
YES!!!
i dont !
but you use void
caught in 4k
not using a switch ๐คฎ
java is... something.
itโs the only language I know (thanks mc)
itโs made it very hard for me to learn new languages
Gaming.
why do people dislike java?
Main complaint I see is verbosity
cuz they're idiots
There are some other things I personally think are a bit meh, type erasure on generics and ==/equals for example
๐
i hate java cuz i hate every language
We all love it but sometimes its just...
๐ซ ๐คจ ๐คฃ ๐คฌ ๐คฏ
๐คฃ โบ๏ธ โค๏ธ ๐คฌ
ye
Java has a lot of nice things but a lot of downsides. Some downsides is that Java is associated with enterprise code and enterprise code is kinda of shitty and verbose when it's not done right. Java also made some decisions as a language that did not age well. For instance, checked exceptions has proven to not be a good feature in general. Polymorphism is not that good in java and it's easy to shoot yourself in the foot.
There are a lot of strong sides to Java though, for instance it's incredibly stable as proven by the number of large companies who has used the language for over 10 years. You get portability for free. It is decently fast. It's also generally more difficult to shoot yourself in the foot in comparison to other languages which scales well with larger dev teams.
Good Morning!
morning
bald
Java has kind of become the language people point at because of the amount of design patterns people throw at something (e.g., "MyClassFactoryFacadeBuilder"), but at least people follow design principles decently well. It would be nice if some verbosity was lifted to help with this, but it's better than some other languages where people don't follow design patterns at all.

@neat scarab ???? where the fuck are you???
LATE 
hello
Minecraft Earth dies today.
I like it but it looks more extreme than the way I got taught it.
python 3.10 will help with your if else

paragon is a name of a bot already though.
@neat scarab my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
all I can do now is repeatedly hit my table (no)
yo imagine if my laptop actually goes to sleep mode when i close it
it probs just burns down instead
TextColor.color(0xa61111)
lol they laugh so loud
only fahlur
"Why am I wvewsvwsvvswwvswvrvvasvwer" - Kacper
https://github.com/monkegame/monkeOneTap @hollow gulch cry at this 
I wish external stickers were supported on mobile. To have external stickers I have to be on desktop.
:/
autoconverts xd
@plain sapphire where you at
fgdfgsaerthtgj
i'll join in a bit
aight imma head out
yo @ mods can somebody kick idunnololz from the typing sounds channel?
@โmods
How did I do what?
Ping without pinging
zwj
ah
?warn @hollow gulch stop being bad
๐ โ ๐ โ ๐ โ ๐ โ ๐ โ
@neat scarab get ready bro
i joined voice accidentally, sorry for my surprise noises, it might have seemed like i had another motive but i'm correcting the record :S
I would be chatting with you fam, but 3am and the partner is sleeping so. ๐คทโโ๏ธ
So is it like a combo of a datapack and plugin?
curse of binding 2.0
leave it up to the implementor?
discovery, purchase, experience?
oof. but then you'd need to make them to play nice with other plugins if you go the currency route?
let it crash
like if the admin is silly enough to pick a currency they don't ahve installed, then ๐คทโโ๏ธ
just tie into vault ig
naomi get in chat ๐
nah am outside ๐
hit up the author lol
lol
this is literally the reason Iuse git
what about the new ones?
tuff?
pass
^
vscode is working finally tho
throwbacks to runescapes dungeoneering
for tf2 did you say?
did you say mega or giga?
big phew moment
I was gonna say.
120gb for tf2.
what are they updating?
gg
Yeah, that's part of the reason why I migrated away from writing java stuff.
Became a NodeJS kid
I thought the same, but it just feels more free and flexible
like it's gotten to the point where I don't write bat scripts for aliases anymore. I literally run my aliases in a node process.
ye
ArrayList<ArrayList<String>>
ArrayList<ArrayList<UUID, String, Integer>>
That wouldn't work?
Make a wrapper class for the three things
Bc ALs don't have generic array of things
class Wrapper {
UUID a;
String b;
Integer c;
public Wrapper(UUID a, String b, Integer c) {
this.a =a;
this.b=b;
this.c=c;
}
I mean you could also do ArrayList<ArraList<Object[]>>
This is the most calming diplo song you'll ever hear.
https://open.spotify.com/track/6R72ZKVr6JP9f7DHsWMcVb?si=b711916dda5c45c0
i don't know how to respond to that.
15gb of vapourwave is more than the size of tf2 lol
I'm gonna cruise off to sleep. ty for the late night chats! ๐๐
you too!
a bit, just cleaning up and seeing what I want to change on this old plugin xD
did actually manage to get my bot to read its config.json so :D
nice
dropping some serious achievements i see
yea dude
took me like 2 hrs because im stupid
was searching in the wrong folder
HAHA happens
i learnt that java programs operate in the path they're currently in
and my dumbass was internalizing the config xd
oh good I forgot to turn off this feature, so on my test server I sent alerts to my staffs alert channel xD
LOL

im sure i woke someone up xD, and im sure ill hear about it xD
F
welp idk why I hard coded this in this plugin, is should be configurable xD rip
probably was in a rush at the time..
hardcode until not lazy :p
well technically nothing changed, but tbh a webhook link should be configurable xD
LOL
even if its for a specific server only a the time. xD
i mean imagine your webhook link changes and you have to rebuild the whole thing
right?
fixed it anyways
hm I found a handler I never used...
oh goody, what else will I find in this old thing..?
looking at old code is a whole puzzle adventure game
it is
also found something that really bothers me and its just so much fun xD
at least I know the whole thing works. but I found things that I have myself scratching my head on about xD
lol
like this same line of info the exact same sentence is in every instance of these types, when I could of just did that 1 time elsewhere
WHY
xD
god thanks for reminding me i have a whole plugin to fix for 1.17
oh dont get me started with 1.17
lol
I had plugins earlier and datapacks xD
and a datapack that works with a plugin xD
that was fun, not... xD, to be fair some of them i didnt have to do anything with as they worked fine in 1.17 no issues
ooh now I know why I did that
yea everything should work fine but I use protocollib and it's doing funnies
it actually was easier to do this thing I did because of how I did everything else xD
that doesn't sound good
yea no, not rewriting it, got bigger fish to fry xD
its not bad, its just the same line of text that could be elsewhere instead of taking up literally just a few bytes, but instead repeated in over 20 sections
its nothing bad
just something that can save on file size is all
watchout for Professor Rework
I also ran into a really old txt file in this plugin where it doesnt belong,, its to my really really really old version of wayshrines. No idea why its here. all I know is it wont be here no more xD
o/
That is old status.
buildtools works which means it works.
type type type type type type type
PaperMC
1.17.1+build.1
@rancid sentinel https://geysermc.org/
Geyser is a bridge between Minecraft: Bedrock Edition and Minecraft: Java Edition which allows you to join Minecraft Java servers with Bedrock Edition servers to enable true cross-platform.
Yes
There are no applications to become anything @rancid sentinel
IntelliJ
Mostly
Not netbeans or eclipse
Omg this guy
T H I S
G U Y
Fr
I cannot hear much of anything as I get 1000ms ping
kenny EPIC
is it just me or should this guy NOT go anywhere near the docs
yes
Lol
:}
It's 1am and i'm stressed
๐
rude
eh
laugh harder
hader
hush ollie
shush*
ok
You have to enjoy it somewhat, if you dont and are miserable find something else in life, what you do the rest of your life should never be miserable.
FINALLY
Damn
Yes 
wow
lol
discords protecting us
why is australias internet terrible
Some of the country it is because the government are silly
But I mean I get 100/40 so it's not that bad
Just the government greatly fucked up the NBN rollout
Which is our fiber to the node/premises etc
windows 
So Kenny what was the fix to get it compiling?
I didn't fix it, I'm just applying again on Windows to build CB/Spigot there as well in case I need that later 
gave up and pushed API patches to GitHub, basically saving the next person 3 minutes of work
so probably mini/den
or when quilt updates?
Cats are cute
@rancid sentinel It's just a meme, there's nothing meaningful to it









camm
