general

[agile dust]

it was meant as compliment! g

yes, the paper default world has the same problem

[molten egret]

Ah yes animations

Flying airplanes

Paper airplanes

[simple garden]

yeah it was world guard, hidden in the config file world guard there was

disable health regen = false

stashed away, i set it to true and it works better now

[agile dust]

thats my view in a paper default world

[lament patio]

Well

Is your cheat client on 1.16?

[agile dust]

its meteorclient on the same version 1.18

same happens with vanilla client

[void void]

Anyone know a 1.19 shop plugin?
But instead of buying items for money etc, You buy them for different items.

[agile dust]

Insane Shops 1.8.0

[void void]

Alright thanks <3

[unkempt jackal]

Yes please. The Paper downloads page would be so fun with animations

[golden gust]

This is the most beautiful thing I've seen in my life

[worthy geode]

not surprised this is your first word on the server at all

[golden gust]

Well, it was either gonna work or it wasn't, and, so, I just had to go for it

[hexed dragon]

https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/minecraft-snapshot-22w24a

[mental meadow]

Added Player Chat Reporting
finally

[worthy geode]

pretty much how I expected the reporting to look like

[twin lagoon]

Accessed via the social interactions screen (default keybind is P).

ah it's useless

[worthy geode]

still don't think its something mojang should do, but that implementation at least is fine

[ripe sphinx]

I mean they need to moderate their platform somehow

[worthy geode]

they didn't for the past ten years and it worked fine

[mental meadow]

no it didn't

[ripe sphinx]

"fine"

[mossy vessel]

Wondering how many people have been contracted to take care of xy griefed my house this cnt

[golden gust]

Brushing the wider issues under the rug is not how you fix issues in the community

lol

[worthy geode]

I don't see what didn't work? lol

people who liked more moderation played on servers that had more moderation. people who didn't played on anarchy servers

[mental meadow]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-38691882
plus a shitton of hatespeech, as usual in gaming communities still

[worthy geode]

so ban that server, take legal action against that guy and done? I don't see how chat reporting would fix that

[mental meadow]

Legal action is expensive. Banning a player is not

[golden gust]

Because mojang as it stands has nothing to deal with those such reports at the moment

Which is what they're working on fixing

[worthy geode]

this will just end up in accounts being banned unfairly because mojang can't take context into account

[mental meadow]

as I said before, I 100% believe that Mojang is not the one pushing that, but local governments/laws are, and Mojang just has to do something to comply

Do I think it's a good solution to the problem? No
Am I still glad it's here? Yea
Will I be happy when someone who throws slurs at me gets banned for doing so? Absolutely.

[worthy geode]

And I dislike that it seems to completely bypass the server the chat happens on. If someone reports someone for something on my server, I would like to know about that as well lol

[vernal moth]

the snapshot is just bait

it didn't actually go live

https://i.imgur.com/4xRqPqN.png

zzzzZZzzzzZZZzzz

[ripe sphinx]

typical mojang

[vernal moth]

poor adrian

[void void]

noticed that too, though my decomp script was borked

[hexed dragon]

It up on there now.

[void void]

thank

[vernal moth]

not for me :/

v2 or old one?

there we go

https://i.imgur.com/d7QtUM4.png

[coarse venture]

here come the 1.19.1 questions.

[twin lagoon]

will my chat reports get sent to the lizard government

[rare python]

1.19 bout to become the new 1.8.

[magic river]

You can't do chat reporting on Paper servers anyway

[twin lagoon]

someone fix 1.19 chat on paper

[spare venture]

that's a little extreme

but if all the people who are extremely toxic stay on 1.18, i'm fine with that. same with how 1.8 helped normal people out

[wet storm]

did anyone notice that the most of WorldStem functionality was moved to the new WorldLoader class in some of 1.19 snapshots? What do you think, is this related somehow to the world dir refactor or something other?

[coarse venture]

OH NO ..

[magic river]

Further complication is people using ViaVersion/ViaBackwards, even if you had chat otherwise working correctly you can't make old versions do it

[quick obsidian]

new snapshot - is there any plugin that would be able to break this feature entirely?

[spare venture]

lol

[magic river]

Way to read the 5 lines above your message first 😄

[quick obsidian]

oh lol

[vernal moth]

why do you want to break it?

[quick obsidian]

i don't want mojang to interfere with my player's chat?

[twin lagoon]

then disable chat signing

[vernal moth]

its mojangs game, lol

[wide chasm]

I mean, send everything as a system message I suppose. That would also break some other stuff, though.

[vernal moth]

that will break all player safety features

[magic river]

Having this in there makes me think it's even more likely Mojang is going to eventually flip that switch to make the client ignore messages with invalid signatures by default

[vernal moth]

like the blocking

[quick obsidian]

oh that's fine

[vernal moth]

exactly

as they should

[magic river]

Currently they're all sent as system messages

[wide chasm]

Yes, but if you want to disable this, then you're going to break something.

If you disable chat signing, then chat messages won't appear for people who set their chat to only accept signed messages.

[magic river]

If people updated the adventure patch like I was suggesting no matter what you do (other than directly write to the socket) you get a system message

[wide chasm]

If you send everything as a system message then you're going to break other player safety features and chat preferences.

[radiant mantle]

best plan for 15 player smp with plugins?
bloom host

[quick obsidian]

yeah that doesn't bother me, as long as mojang can't moderate my chat

[shy eagle]

Is that default for the official launcher?

[mental meadow]

https://github.com/HangarMC/HangarAuth/pull/136#issuecomment-1156740729 important comment

[magic river]

Default right now is for the client to spam its console when it gets an invalid signature but still show it in chat

There is an option in game to make it not show it in chat though

[golden gust]

people have been able to report stuff for years, just, stuff was less trusted because validation; literally all this is changing is bringing the report from closer to the players, and adding signatures to messages so that they can be validated

[quick obsidian]

but redirecting all messages to system messages would work, right

[magic river]

I'm guessing in a later 1.19.x or 1.20 that option defaults to ignoring

[golden gust]

No, they'll still be able to report

as they've been able to report for years

just it would make it harder for mojang due to lack of a signature

[mental meadow]

that stupid support request file

[magic river]

Redirecting all messages to system messages breaks the ability to turn off chat and do client side ignore

[mental meadow]

I hate it so much

[quick obsidian]

but what's the point of reporting? like will it block that player from talking in multiplayer, or work with the game-wide bans they always say they'll add

[fickle rain]

you could report players before this change?

[mental meadow]

so far it does nothing

[golden gust]

Yes, they have a report form on their site and have for years

[quick obsidian]

i think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to add for realms but not for public servers

[vernal moth]

I hope that mojang will eventually use it to ban child abusers and shit from the game

[magic river]

Presumably this would be used to determine who should get a warning, who should get a global mute, and who should lose their account

[coarse venture]

top % of law breaking stuff will hopefully get priority

[vernal moth]

the UI for this is really cool

[daring laurel]

this is terrible

[quick obsidian]

i'm pretty sure it won't just be for that, they're always pushing to make the game more child-friendly

[daring laurel]

show it

[quick obsidian]

i reckon they'll police 'edgy' shit

[golden gust]

That's something we've been talking to them about

[vernal moth]

https://i.imgur.com/SAtFjNl.png

those are the categories

[quick obsidian]

yep knew it

[mental meadow]

making a child game more child friendly

awful

[quick obsidian]

well i think that's logical for realms

[vernal moth]

whats edgy on there?

[quick obsidian]

not for servers

[golden gust]

We personally don't want them to go too crazy over it, but, it's a fun area especially with global regs coming into play

[quick obsidian]

seriously?

oh god forbid

[wide chasm]

Waiting on 22w25a because what is that UI

[mental meadow]

again, local laws

[quick obsidian]

awful

[vernal moth]

you don't know what actions will be taken for which category

its a kids game auxilor

[viral hornet]

yeah local laws

[quick obsidian]

what i think they'll do is put an age limit on servers, which is dumb tbh

[cunning raft]

nothing to do with laws

[waxen panther]

[cunning raft]

the servers are hosting the content

not mojang

[waxen panther]

[quick obsidian]

exactly

[shy eagle]

Ya I guess the line draws between your own servers and stuff like realms. Though I guess they have the right to blacklist your sever but the community has given backlash to the whole blacklisting in the past

[twin lagoon]

I think they will have the FBI spy on us

[mental meadow]

they literally have to have features like that to keep their age rating in certain countries

[cunning raft]

for realms thats a different story

[twin lagoon]

The government cannot be trusted

[cunning raft]

multiplayer isn't rated

which is why you get that warning

[quick obsidian]

i think what's most likely to happen is that it will push more servers to use offline mode

[vernal moth]

its brand stuff, its player safety, mojang wants to do more here

[cunning raft]

every time you join

[vernal moth]

you just will have to deal with that

[waxen panther]

well actually 🤓

[shy eagle]

Well in china they have their own version that is locked down to follow the stricter laws there with gaming

[wet storm]

I mean, pornography seems weird, what if I wanna have a hentai gallery on my server as many servers I played did? Like, give me at least a possibilty to officially set my server 18+ then

[mental meadow]

Yes JRoy, and as we all know server hosters have always followed all the laws regarding to reporting illegal content, or just, you know, privacy
Please explain to some 60 year old politician that Mojang is not actually hosting the content
They will just outlaw minecraft instead

[fickle rain]

is message signing on 1.19 now? huh iddnt even notice

[vernal moth]

again, you don't know what they iwll do

[coarse venture]

rofl, no comment.

[quick obsidian]

if their implementation was checking a box to confirm you're willing to see that, that would be fine, but with the new microsoft account requirement, i'm 99% sure they'll tie it to your account's age

[coarse venture]

maybe stop using mc for your hentai fetish

[shy eagle]

May just want to start playing second life xD they allow all that and you can make blocks

[worthy geode]

If you have a legally sound verification system for your server that should be fine?

[radiant mantle]

guys wher e can i download sftp client

[quick obsidian]

filezilla

[radiant mantle]

ok

is it ftp client?

or sftp client

[quick obsidian]

google

[shy eagle]

There are lots of them, I like cyber duck but FileZilla is good

[mental meadow]

I've never seen a server with a good verification sytem

[quick obsidian]

verification systems suck ass

[twin lagoon]

paper general spitting out the dumbest paranoid shit

as per usual

[golden gust]

I mean, complaining to us will do no good

[quick obsidian]

it's not paranoid it's typical microsoft

[twin lagoon]

it's paranoid

you're literally coming with the dumbest shit

[golden gust]

We generally agree with some aspects of what they're doing and disagree with some aspects

[quick obsidian]

microsoft likes to make things worse with more updates

[worthy geode]

just send shit as system message and move on

[limber knot]

if you don't have a german government issued e-id then you can't play on my minecraft server

[golden gust]

they have a feedback form somewhere to let you speak your concerns, etc

[vernal moth]

its literally being pushed by mojang, not msft @quick obsidian, lol

[mental meadow]

All I'm seeing is a lot of butthurt people that now rage about that it's easier to report them lol

[twin lagoon]

but muh msft

[coarse venture]

ppl complain about everything.

[mental meadow]

ah yes, I also like handing $randomDude my ID data

[viral hornet]

^_^

[quick obsidian]

i don't really play the game but i don't want servers to become forcibly child friendly

[twin lagoon]

^_^

[vernal moth]

this is about removing child molestors from the game, idk how you can disagree with that

[quick obsidian]

or have age limits imposed on them

[golden gust]

This is something we've been trying to speak to them about

[void void]

Is it a waste of money to buy a GTX 1080 TI Founders Edition for 350 EUR these days?

Not buying it for usage

[quick obsidian]

if it was just a system to report actual child safety issues i'd be 100% behind it, that's a big problem on a lot of platforms

[golden gust]

once again, please use the feedback form.

[void void]

just for history sake

[rare python]

My only real concern is that Mojang Microsoft's moderation ends up being as dysfunctional as Discord's, were reporting a message out of context can be enough to get an account terminated, sending someone down a weeks long mess of trying to get an account unbanned.

[limber knot]

lol yes, Aurorae

[quick obsidian]

exactly

[vernal moth]

it literally is

[void void]

But, the design is so cool phoenix :(

[shy eagle]

You can get a 20 series for little more money and will be much better

[limber knot]

just wait until the GPU prices properly drop with the new intel, nvidia and amd cards

[quick obsidian]

and policing profanity is an actual child safety issue?

[worthy geode]

especially because they have zero context outside of chat

[void void]

I'm not buying it to use it, I'm buying it cause wow cool design and history sake

[shy eagle]

I had laptop with a rtx2060 and it was pretty awesome with most games

[vernal moth]

yes? but again, you don't know which actions will be taken

[worthy geode]

which isn't a big deal on discord, because its only chat. but its not even working there

[quick obsidian]

no that's true, that's true, i'll have to wait and see

[coarse venture]

if it isn't an issue, ppl wont' report it.

[rare python]

Someone joking about being under 13 is enough to get an account terminated, I've seen people do it.

[limber knot]

@void void get a broken one then?

[shy eagle]

Oh ya if you buying it for collection then sure, just don’t overpay. I like buying vintage Apple stuff myself lol

[worthy geode]

some people get offended by everything and will report it

[void void]

A broken one sounds so lame, idk it's kinda double LMAO

I want to fire it up in a few tens of years

[twin lagoon]

please enlighten us on another idea of enforcing the 13 year old age requirement

[golden gust]

joking about being under 13 is a massive legality issue for platforms like discord, and so they take that shit seriously

[coarse venture]

Discord is 13+, verified/partner servers who want to stay that way Have to ban community members who say they are under 13.

same with youtube being 13+ in most countries, twitter, etc.

[void void]

In the Netherlands 16+ even

[quick obsidian]

13+ age restriction has very legit reasons

[fickle rain]

you could probably get a miner card for cheap too, I reckon they're offloading them with the current crpyto market

[mental meadow]

all I'm saying, it was always possible to report people, now it's just easier, and a lot of people are for some reason really worried about that

[quick obsidian]

because they collect data, and if it turns out they were under 13 then that opens them up to a lot of problems

google had a $300m lawsuit about that iirc

[void void]

That's precisely why it's 350, instead of the mindboggling 550 I've seen around

[coarse venture]

i have set 13+ to all my communities, i yeet them out with option to appeal when they're 13+

not worth the risk if you get one amber heard parent

[worthy geode]

because if its easier, making reports for fun and jokes is also easier

[quick obsidian]

if it was a 13+ requirement i think that would be perfectly reasonable and i would be behind that

[worthy geode]

and the risk of people being banned for small things is higher

[golden gust]

I know that twitter has a long ass queue because they basically need to purge info about you before they can let you back in

[shy eagle]

In the United States those under 13 are unable to agree to legal terms without a parent signing off so companies normally prevent it as they can’t enforce their TOS legally. Some do allow parents to create an account on behalf of their kid tho

[quick obsidian]

if it's 18+ instead, that's dumb as shit

[golden gust]

plz, once again

provide feedback to mojang

[quick obsidian]

im just saying my thoughts

[mental meadow]

because if its easier, making reports for fun and jokes is also easier
ah yes, let's not introduce $accessibilityFeature because someone might misuse it!
Reminds me of the trans trolley problem

[limber knot]

easy solution: offline-mode=true

[shy eagle]

I am am surprised that I am just hearing about qlutch. Though I think I may have to start looking into source for any plugins. Guessing I was naïve before lol, though of course there would be back doors in plugins. Is there anything in paper I can enable or keep an eye on about shady plugins? Though I guess just depends on where you download them too.

[limber knot]

runs

[rare python]

I am fine with implementing measures for Moderation in the game, I just don't trust Microsoft to do it in a way that won't screw people over by taking things out of context.

[quick obsidian]

that's what i think will happen

[vernal moth]

wtf is the trans trolley problem?

[golden gust]

Yes, but, we speak to mojang about this stuff, and we all have a bunch of seperate ideals, etc

[twin lagoon]

yeah need some explanation on the trans trolley thing too

[worthy geode]

Wheres is that feedback form?

[mental meadow]

a nice variation of the trolley problem, second

[twin lagoon]

okay what is the trolley problem

[golden gust]

Our voices count because mojang can hear us, but, they don't get to hear the entire view of the full community if the full community refuses to speak out

[twin lagoon]

oh

[vernal moth]

dum ethical problem

[worthy geode]

this is like not related at all, lol?

[quick obsidian]

would you pull the lever to kill one person, or not touch it knowing it will kill 5

[worthy geode]

Its a well known issue with reporting that wrong reports happen

[worthy geode]

1, simple math

[mental meadow]

https://twitter.com/conureCC/status/1535227029502668800/photo/1

conure 🐦🖤 (@conureCC)

https://t.co/qvSqWkXpJg

Likes

60046

Retweets

7228

Twitter · Jun 10, 2022, 11:47 AM

[shy eagle]

If you take the red pill you become gay and blue pill you become extra gay. Only options lol jk

[limber knot]

https://i.moep.tv/gwLDQrFa.png 👀

[quick obsidian]

but you're condemning that person to death

[vernal moth]

ok, but what if that one person is 90

[quick obsidian]

a person who would not have died if you left it

[wide chasm]

You're a surgeon and you have five people who all need a different organ otherwise they die. Do you kill one perfectly healthy person to save the other five?

[mental meadow]

there you go @vernal moth @twin lagoon

[quick obsidian]

no

[twin lagoon]

yeah i remember you retweeting that a while ago

[worthy geode]

that would mean assigning value to individuals, so does not matter for me

[quick obsidian]

i love that

i reckon i'd pull it for about an hour and then give up and accept their fate

an hour of being in denial can't hurt

although now that i've actually applied thought to it i would definitely just give up from the get go

[limber knot]

I feel like not involving yourself into the situation by touching the level is even better 👀

[mental meadow]

there is no solution

that's the point of it

[magic river]

The only things I think are weird on that chat reporting screen are profanity, pornography, and drugs/alcohol

[worthy geode]

same here, bunch of people on one track and less than one person on the other track, so its the empty track. still don't see how that relates to my argument of report abuse

[rare python]

alternative solution: derail the train

[vernal moth]

does 2bt2 have a discord? I wanna see them rage about player reporting

[rare python]

They have a subreddit

[void void]

Same

[shy eagle]

Makes sense when you talk about people who are so hell bent on hurting trans people even when it has no effect on them and they can just let trans people be themselves

[vernal moth]

cause those are the people that most likely will be yeeted the first

[magic river]

Those are just puritanical nonsense, the rest are things you don't want pretty much anywhere

[vernal moth]

and nothing of value will be lost

[quick obsidian]

maybe hate speech depending on the rules, but if it's just for things that are very obviously inciting hatred i think it's fine

[worthy geode]

only if mojang backports that

[void void]

Also, isn't player reporting for realms only or?

[fickle rain]

they have a subreddit

[twin lagoon]

reddit

[quick obsidian]

but they run 1.12.2

[mental meadow]

you can still report them, you always could

[limber knot]

@void void well for now

[worthy geode]

and you can also just disable chat signing by using mods, everyone runs a modded client there anyways

[void void]

I see

[vernal moth]

servers can deny you from joining if you do that

[worthy geode]

yeah but 2b2t won't do that

[quick obsidian]

2b2t wouldn't lol

[void void]

From all servers, is 2b2t the server to do that?

Their entire thing is anarchy etc.

Having people get their account terminated definitely isn't on their bucket list I'd believe

At least, from the servers perspective...

[wet storm]

I wonder will hausemaster turn off chat moderation on 2b2t

[worthy geode]

and most 2b2t players only play there or on other anarchy server that also won't deny people for unsigned chat, so they simply won't care

[vernal moth]

dont ruin my fun

[quick obsidian]

i think using system messages with the old-school player safety features /ignore etc is fine

[vernal moth]

I just want to see the assholes gone

[viral hornet]

Likewise

[mental meadow]

ah the fun of having a lot of people see my tweets

[quick obsidian]

yeah that's fair enough depending on your server's target audience

[viral hornet]

idk why people gotta go and make this out to be something HUGE

[magic river]

hehe, just a thought: if it's sent as a system message that means you are on the hook for saying it as the server owner

[quick obsidian]

not like an account is tied to a server?

[magic river]

No but the server blacklist exists

[worthy geode]

fine for me tbh, I don't mind having responsibility for whats said in an environment I moderate

[vernal moth]

heh, am gonna suggest that next time I talk to mojang 😄

[quick obsidian]

and it's trivially easy to ignore the blacklist

i can't think of a single server that's actually shut down following a blacklist

they just go offline

[vernal moth]

it still has a big impact on business

[quick obsidian]

if they require linking an account then people are gonna make burner accounts

[wide chasm]

Can always make the counter argument that it was a plugin.

[worthy geode]

I honestly would like mojang holding servers responsible for lack of moderation more than player reports, but that definitely would be more effort

[limber knot]

well but you are already responsible for the software that you run

[quick obsidian]

realistically for all the millions of ways around that, the obvious solution is just to use offline mode

[vernal moth]

if thats h ow you wanna spend your money 🤷

[coarse venture]

You do you buddy 😄

[quick obsidian]

no that's a dumb solution to a problem that doesn't exist

[mental meadow]

tell that to server owners

[void void]

chain... block?

[quick obsidian]

im just saying no matter what there's always a workaround

[limber knot]

if they require a paid mojang account to use the server software then that's the last straw for me lol

[quick obsidian]

they can't possibly be that stupid

surely

especially not when they have an actual potential competitor arriving

yeah hytale

[limber knot]

I mean my solution would be to mod it out but ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mental meadow]

blocks all followers/follows of an account, awesome against TERFs since they all follow each other

[void void]

Ahh, I see

[coarse venture]

every game has competitors.

[quick obsidian]

minecraft doesn't have any actual competitors until hytale comes out

[vernal moth]

what if they require tokens to talk to the session server?

[mental meadow]

I thinks stifflered once made a survey asking about how many server owners realize that they are responsible for implementing data privacy stuff like GDPR compliance, and the overwhelming majority didn't know

[coarse venture]

It's not like 100 million active players are suddenly saying 'oh no, i can't use hate speech anymore, ill take my hate speech to hytale, where they welcome me with open arms"

lol

[worthy geode]

a competitor is not necessarily a game with similar gameplay

[worthy geode]

yeah, because Riot surely won't moderate

[quick obsidian]

no, but people are going to say 'oh i can't talk like i normally do (profanity) or about certain topics (drugs / alcohol) etc etc etc, i'm going to play a game where i can'

[coarse lily]

I think this is going to be a very very small amount of people.

[mental meadow]

I'm gonna be fair, so fair everyone I reported to Riot for hatespeech actually got banned
Not using the in game report though, actually writing support

[coarse venture]

And how is that different than your OS, office package, any online subscription model, Apple app store apps for example can't get remotely pulled, .. Mojang's just working on improving player safety.

[vernal moth]

not sure why you would talk about drugs in a kids game tbh

[quick obsidian]

and if riot see people moving because of that, i'd be pretty sure they're not going to implement something to remove a theoretical selling point

[quick obsidian]

because believe it or not a lot of servers aren't entirely populated with 9 year olds

[void void]

I mean, I sort-of have option for OS?

[worthy geode]

some servers have an adult audience 🤷

[quick obsidian]

what about one of the biggest groups of servers, i.e. those just made for a group of friends?

[vernal moth]

literally every single game company is trying to improve player safety right now in order to escape legislation

[void void]

It's more a thing of, how does said safety work

[vernal moth]

idk why this is so surprising

[worthy geode]

issue with "kids game" is that Minecraft is not just a kids game nowadays

[void void]

is it like, actively storing my chat contents and stuff for possible moderation? Or is this only stored upon report or what's the thing?

I haven't read into it yet

[vernal moth]

why would your friends report you?

[mental meadow]

It's only provided with the report

[void void]

I see

[coarse lily]

If you’re playing with friends you don’t have to worry about them reporting you

[limber knot]

lol

[golden gust]

legislation, etc, doesn't give a single shit about what servers intent to be accessible to

[quick obsidian]

that's true that's true

[limber knot]

because friends are dicks, mini

[coarse venture]

linux and libre office do what they want to with their projects. actually both had their controversy in the past haha

[quick obsidian]

what if someone in your group turned out to be an asshole and decides to go on a mass report spree

[coarse lily]

What if your house was hit by a meteor?

[quick obsidian]

some people really are that petty

[coarse venture]

Then their useless reports will stand out and it's clear they're false reports, since the msgs are signed.

[void void]

I was a lil' worried for privacy reasons, but not anymore

[worthy geode]

I doubt Mojang will ban people due to a single report

[fickle rain]

hopefully microsoft would file the report as invalid

[limber knot]

because that's how reports work lol

[quick obsidian]

all of this is a long way of saying: there should be a toggle in server.properties and turning that toggle on shouldn't require your account to be registered over a certain age

[vernal moth]

of course mojang can chat ban or completely ban an account slatt

[worthy geode]

• on online-mode servers

[limber knot]

the team in malaysia or where they outsource that to will surely be correct at all times Kappa

[vernal moth]

mojang literally has been doing that for years, lmao

[quick obsidian]

almost noone knows that exists tho mini

[vernal moth]

you can already report accounts

[quick obsidian]

i know i didn't and i've been playing this game for 10 years

[vernal moth]

doesn't change the fact that it exists and is used

[limber knot]

I doubt mojang gets thousands of reports per day 👀

[vernal moth]

mojang is just streamlining the process

[mental meadow]

Mojang already bans accounts for hatespeech in usernames for example

[quick obsidian]

yeah in usernames fair enough

[mental meadow]

It's just a mess to report someone

[coarse lily]

I do think they’re gonna be in for a bit of surprise over how many reports per second they get.

[worthy geode]

oh overworking will surely lead to only correct bans

[vernal moth]

I don't think so, not sure how much I can say but I think they gonna be fine

[limber knot]

it will probably just run through the xbox report system in the end

[vernal moth]

nah

[mental meadow]

I mean I'm guessing that some sort of automation will be in there, like "okay, does this account get like 200 reports in one day, maybe we should check that first"

[limber knot]

no reason to not use what microsoft already has tbh

[quick obsidian]

people are going to spam that

[worthy geode]

especially in PvP environments people report for the stupidest things

[quick obsidian]

i think it's reasonable that they might do 'this account is submitting 200 reports a day, let's throw them out as a data point'

[vernal moth]

its incredibly easy to filter spam out

[mental meadow]

like, does an account get reported way more than average players

The attached messages to the report

[quick obsidian]

players get targeted on servers all the time

lets say there's an annoying player on the server, they get mass reported, they stick out as a data point, etc

[vernal moth]

nothing here is revolutionary, xbox literally dealt with these problems a decade ago

[mental meadow]

literally talking against a wall

[quick obsidian]

no that will break things esp when chat signing becomes mandatory

[mental meadow]

most servers will not allow you from joining in the future without valid signatures

[vernal moth]

if a player says fucked up shit and gets mass reported, don't you think those reports are valid? lol

[quick obsidian]

just use system messages if you need to

[worthy geode]

doubt that tbh

backwards compatibility and stuff

[mental meadow]

If it will be enabled by default I don't doubt that

[quick obsidian]

what if your server's fine with that kind of thing and other players are too? ala 2b2t

[daring laurel]

I disagree with this, there are tons of competitive servers where people will spamreport players I’m sure at something meh

[mental meadow]

offline mode always exists

[worthy geode]

yeah if you count all the servers for friends that don't change any settings, true. but most public servers? nah

[vernal moth]

minecraft rules > server rules

[wide chasm]

How would you prevent people from joining the server without a signature if only chat messages have a valid signature?

[quick obsidian]

but will players see it that way?

[vernal moth]

they will

[daring laurel]

If you really believe that every chat ban will be justified you’re trolling

[mental meadow]

Can't you already do that right now?

[quick obsidian]

i know i'd think that: 'server allows it, must be all good'

and most other people would

[vernal moth]

you literally don't know where mojang sets the bar

[molten egret]

Ye

[daring laurel]

Thats the problem…

[molten egret]

That’s a big issue

[wide chasm]

If they send a message, yes, but if they don't I don't see how you would.

[quick obsidian]

that's literally the problem mini

[mental meadow]

No, I thought with 1.19 you can require valid signatures for joining

[molten egret]

It could be “fuck” it could be the nword

[vernal moth]

they just published the first iteration of the tech, policy will follow later

[worthy geode]

maybe should have done that the other way around to reduce drama

[void void]

they are not going to ban you for saying fuck

[daring laurel]

you know because of what

[vernal moth]

the tech is more complicated than the policy

[quick obsidian]

what does worry me is if they eventually automate the system

yeah that's what i said earlier

[coarse lily]

At the end of the day, they’re going to do what they’re going to do. You want a setting to disable it and you’ve made that clear. But they might not add one. Then your choice is to play the game anyway or not. It’s pretty simple.

[vernal moth]

has anybody of you idiots ever read the minecraft community standards?

[quick obsidian]

at the end of the day, my money doesn't come from running servers so i don't really mind

[limber knot]

Minecraft is PEGI 7/USK 6, pretty sure they have every right to ban you for saying "fuck" 👀

[quick obsidian]

but i love the game and it would be a shame to see them break things

exactly phoenix

[mental meadow]

we are talking with Mojang and contrary to popular believe they actually listen to feedback, but the feedback should be based on actual facts and not on wild speculation

[worthy geode]

yes, they are very vague

[vernal moth]

I dont think so

[wide chasm]

Not that I'm aware of

[mental meadow]

Paper Community Guidelines > Minecraft Community Standards fact

[vernal moth]

the only thing they list as zero tolerance is this: "Minecraft has a zero-tolerance policy towards hate speech, bullying, harassing, sexual solicitation, or threatening others.", so thats what I expect them to act on

[limber knot]

as far as I can tell one could just block any client not sending a valid one in the login process

(signature)

[daring laurel]

I highly doubt that you will forward any feedback that you disagree with

[worthy geode]

Create content and conversation that is positive and encouraging, rather than negative and disparaging. It should go without saying, but don’t ever create posts or content with the purpose of starting a fight or to elicit a negative response.

Pretty much conflicts with every pvp server ever

[daring laurel]

^^^

[worthy geode]

so next thing is removing pvp from the game? lol

[quick obsidian]

i wonder how good the mods are at interpreting sarcasm

[limber knot]

I mean, that would solve some issues lol

[mental meadow]

server.properties

Added server property enforce-secure-profile to allow servers to requiring a player to having a Mojang-signed public key.
    Defaults to false.
    Enforcing secure profiles prevent players without a Mojang-signed public key from connecting.

[worthy geode]

I mean, based on the reason they removed fireflies I would not even be surprised

[daring laurel]

Hopefully they make it so you have to wait 5 minutes per swing

[limber knot]

pvp in this game sucks anyways

[quick obsidian]

'i have your ip and am going to send a swat team to your house' is clearly a joke but it's technically a threat

[daring laurel]

^^^^

[mental meadow]

the two points in my message are not strictly related, like they listen to feedback in general

[vernal moth]

a threat is a threat

[daring laurel]

so many ip jokes on pvp servers that mods will never understand

[worthy geode]

so no jokes allowed? thats dumb

[quick obsidian]

what would happen if they implement it badly is that versions above 1.20 are just going to never be used for multiplayer

[distant ruin]

quick question

[vernal moth]

you can make normal jokes, no?

[mental meadow]

Enforcing secure profiles prevent players without a Mojang-signed public key from connecting.

[quick obsidian]

you think you should be banned for irony?

[vernal moth]

is it so hard to not act like an asshole in public?

[daring laurel]

not that 1.18.2 was used for competitve servers lol

[worthy geode]

you can, but the border between normal and not normal is different for everyone

[distant ruin]

is purpur or paper better for vanilla server

[quick obsidian]

yeah exactly

[limber knot]

acting like an asshole in public is fine, but a server is not public so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vernal moth]

then you are a shit friend

[limber knot]

imo the server owner should decide what goes and what not on their server

[coarse lily]

You’re in the Paper server so the answer is going to be Paper.

[mental meadow]

You can get thrown to jail for saying stuff like that, even as a joke to friends

[quick obsidian]

what if that's understood between the both of you that it's clearly a joke? me and my friends say that kind of stuff all the time

[vernal moth]

its mojangs game, they get to decide how stuff works

[quick obsidian]

and you think that's a good thing?

[daring laurel]

this isnt public this is online, maybe youve only ever played creative build servers, but when people are competive on pvp servers they actually say things they wouldnt say irl, and the other side understands they dont mean it

[quick obsidian]

that's a horrible law aurora

[limber knot]

if the game maker decides that then we go down a very slippery slope e.g. is it okay for a browser to decide what I write on the internet?

[cedar spade]

If you don't want your chat reportable, send it all as system messages

[tropic flame]

I just hopped in and I'm so confused

[ashen cliff]

@meager tusk bro! #politics reopened.

[vernal moth]

its still dont acceptable behavior

[quick obsidian]

138905472903487509th person to suggest that

[mental meadow]

Yes, I think it's a good thing that people threatening to kill someone, even as a """"joke"""" can get prosecuted for it

[vernal moth]

if you wouldn't say something to somebodies face, maybe just don't say it?

is that such a weird concept?

[quick obsidian]

and if both of those people are friends and it's understood that it's a joke between them?

[worthy geode]

if the person that joke is aimed at finds it actually funny, why not?

[daring laurel]

Again if you have only ever played on a creative build server you may not believe so, but when someone is competitive they will talk shit

[quick obsidian]

my friend group say that to each other all the time

[daring laurel]

its the online, nobody cares about this

[limber knot]

"I will kill you" means something very different in a game about killing people than in real live

[molten egret]

Ehh it’s about context

[quick obsidian]

exactly

[daring laurel]

^^^

[worthy geode]

If you find jokes about killing people funny, im not gonna judge for that, its simply not my business

[mental meadow]

Yes, and I was talking about real life^^

[molten egret]

Like my server is completely open to gay jokes

[daring laurel]

Its like half of you have never played a competitive server and it shows

[quick obsidian]

and a group of friends that understand a joke and say 'kill yourself' to each other is equally fine

[vernal moth]

I have played almost 1000 hours of league of legends, idk what you are trying to tell me

[quick obsidian]

[molten egret]

Different communities have different standards

[quick obsidian]

sorry to hear that mini

[quick obsidian]

exactly

[limber knot]

just go the league approach, remove chat

[molten egret]

Oh yea

[quick obsidian]

league is owned by riot right

[mental meadow]

maybe I'm just a bit sensitive about death threats, you know, getting some every now and then

[quick obsidian]

hytale no chat confirmed

[vernal moth]

nazi servers are totally fine with burning jews, surely we should accept that in our community

[ashen cliff]

Remove chat so we can't send the cursed copy pasta anymore.

[mental meadow]

yea, if no one reports stuff nothing will happen

[molten egret]

Just placing signs

[quick obsidian]

yeah a minority of people would be sensitive to that, but most people aren't

[daring laurel]

^^^

[meager tusk]

No way.

[mental meadow]

it's all fun and games until someone puts a letter into your mailbox

[limber knot]

nobody said accepting those people in the community, mini

[daring laurel]

which wouldnt happen…

[ashen cliff]

Yes way bro! They called it #general for some reason tho. No clue why.

[quick obsidian]

thats a bit of a leap

[daring laurel]

because what you dont understand is that they are all jokes at the end of the day

[magic river]

This kind of toxicity is punished in things like dota and lol, don't know why it'd be any different here

[molten egret]

Nah, the usps will have broken the bomb

[limber knot]

neither dota nor lol offer private servers

[meager tusk]

Balkans are superior to all your countries combined.

[limber knot]

that is the difference

[vernal moth]

no, its the only logical next step and actuall yhappens all the time

[frank otter]

I believe mojang added message reporting and everyone is blowing up about it

[meager tusk]

@ashen cliff confirm.

[daring laurel]

because dota isnt minecraft… why does everything have to be a comprasion

Theres different communities

[vernal moth]

it starts with online hatespeech and ends with people getting shit

[frank otter]

oh I was scrolled up lol

[vernal moth]

thats why you gotta start at the root

[molten egret]

The limits for mojang to enforce have to be at the far edge

[mental meadow]

it really isn't? Like, I'm not making this up? I've literally received death threats to my fucking mailbox? This isn't about Minecraft, and some of y'all are enabling stuff like this

[magic river]

Why would PVP on block game get you more worked up than a game of dota?

[daring laurel]

what does a “people getting shit” mean

[vernal moth]

shot

[molten egret]

Who are you giving your address to?

[coarse venture]

im back with pie

[daring laurel]

maybe you havent played the right server. when you work for 20 hours on collecting items and you stand to double or nothing on someone else’s 20hr commitment, things get heated

[frank otter]

message reporting isn't even the most interesting feature added

[tropic flame]

I think I've caught up - chat reporting in Java Edition?

sounds fine for Realms but Mojang already literally says they're not responsible for third party server content when you click on the Multiplayer button. Maybe, y'know, let those third parties handle it

But the 200 people talking here have probably already expressed this I'll just keep reading the mess

[ashen cliff]

Fact.

[vernal moth]

idk, this conversation just makes me wanna push mojang more to implement this, it shows how needed it is

[magic river]

I've played on PVP servers, seen the toxicity, and been toxic myself. Doesn't mean it's good or should be allowed

[daring laurel]

This isn't about Minecraft
okay then is it just about people being sensitive online?

[vernal moth]

the standards are so low, getting go back to sane levels again

[limber knot]

how about we get firefox and chrome to also implement website reporting and content filters

oh wait, the EU is already doing that Kappa

[mental meadow]

Ah yes

death threats
sensitive online
got it

[lilac moon]

why'

[worthy geode]

nice thing about minecraft is that you can just play on a server with "higher" standards if you think the standards on your current server are too low

[daring laurel]

you can do whatever you want but it just goes to show how out of touch you are with the communities that we are talking about

[daring laurel]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[magic river]

Firefox doesn't have website reporting but it does have a blocklist built in 😄

[warm anchor]

In which place where getting death threats is just being sensitive? So I will never visit this place?

[vernal moth]

no, it just shows in what degraded communities you spend your time in

[coarse venture]

or maybe, you're in a small bubble and can't see that it's not just about what you do with your game.

[unkempt jackal]

Waking up to find the villager trading hall I made has been "morbed"

[lilac moon]

oh no hackerman

[ashen cliff]

No bro.
Because a child can get hurt in some random server somewhere, everyone has to be monitored by the CCP™️ 24/7.
You don't understand how vital this is to the community.

[vernal moth]

no. people need to start being decent humans again

[quick obsidian]

99% of people on the internet have gotten death threats online before and almost none of them have ever cared about it

[worthy geode]

Moderation should be up to the servers. And if the servers do not enforce some basic human decency, Mojang should moderate the servers that don't - not some players

[molten egret]

I didn’t get the second part

[daring laurel]

nobody is telling you to go to these servers, I'm just expressing why report one place ban everywhere is a bad idea

[limber knot]

@magic river yeah I know, chrome does too and it's pretty odd... but they don't block what I type into websites (yet)

[quick obsidian]

global bans are such a bad idea

[meager tusk]

Guess we all have to switch to cursing people out in Albanian.

[daring laurel]

I mean that may be true, but not everything on the internet has to be a creative build server where you cant even say crap

[vernal moth]

I believe it will if we push for stuff like this

[coarse venture]

meanwhile, discord has report buttons and auto shadowmuting ..

[daring laurel]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[coarse venture]

nobody is triggered.

[limber knot]

"being decent humans >>again<<"??? when were humans decent? lol

[coarse venture]

😄

[limber knot]

they need to start being decent

[quick obsidian]

humanity has got a long track record of being anything but decent

[ashen cliff]

Bro. We should move all Albanians to GOLI OTOK to make sure they can't get hurt.

[warm anchor]

nobody is telling you to go to racist neighborhood, I'm just expressing why report one place ban everywhere is a bad idea.

Do you know how ridiculous this sound?

[vernal moth]

you straight jump to the other extreme when this is literally just about getting rid of people that commit hate crimes or molest childs

[coarse venture]

any social network has the same features basically. type 'f y' in full to someone with a certain amount of followers on twitter and twitter tells you "you sure you want to post that, attackingothers violates our policies'

[quick obsidian]

bit of a leap eternity

internet isn't real life

[warm anchor]

Not really

[quick obsidian]

there's a 'disconnect' button

[meager tusk]

Albanians make goli otok superpower using scraps from old prison.

[twin lagoon]

@quasi valley

[warm anchor]

Internet can leak into real life with doxxing

[mental meadow]

that's just stupid

[magic river]

https://slate.com/technology/2022/03/venting-makes-you-feel-worse-psychology-research.html

[quick obsidian]

takes a fraction of a second to leave somewhere

[mental meadow]

Okay, you know what? This conversation fucking ends here, if y'all start saying things like "death threats aren't an issue"

[warm anchor]

Just because you never experience being doxxed doesn’t mean it is ok @quick obsidian

[quick obsidian]

if you doxx someone that's clearly different to being a bit of a dick on a server

[daring laurel]

That may be another extreme, I'm talking about something lighter than hate crimes but more than just a nice christian minecraft server

[lilac moon]

sussy amongus

[cedar spade]

Several people are typing...

[limber knot]

death threats are an issue but this is not the correct solution

[quick obsidian]

i got doxxed once when i was 13. nothing ever came of it

[limber knot]

their client-side global block is

or per server bans

[warm anchor]

And this chat reporting system will keep them accountable. Wow it’s almost like it’s made for this purpose (?)

[mental meadow]

I'm not saying it is a good solution, but it is a solution, when before we had nothing

[limber knot]

but not global mutes/bans over some random report

[daring laurel]

accountability is the number one priority in a child game 👍

[quick obsidian]

yeah but they're definitely going to overreach and start handing out bans for minor infractions

[limber knot]

their move to xbox-block-lists was a good one

[warm anchor]

Come back when it happens

[quick obsidian]

i will, because it will happen

[ashen cliff]

You could always just disable your chat and only receive system/command msgs.

[warm anchor]

This is why we can’t get good things

[vernal moth]

you literally don't know how they will use report so you can't how how effective and accurate it is

[twin lagoon]

these people acting like you'll get banned permanently & instantly after 1 swear word

💀

[daring laurel]

Block lists are an okay idea, global bans are not...

[vernal moth]

you are just spreading FUD

[waxen panther]

🥸

[limber knot]

@granite gatel it happens on lots of other platforms

[quick obsidian]

i have never seen a perfectly reasonable chat moderation system

[limber knot]

this is not far fetched

[cedar spade]

Michae moment

[worthy geode]

there is no other info on what is okay and what is not other than the community guidelines and they are vague

[vernal moth]

can we just agree to chill out and wait and see what mojang actually does?

[limber knot]

and companies just don't care about people appealing

[daring laurel]

I ❤️ Vargue guidelines

[mental meadow]

can we just end this topic here? I'm tired of entitled peoples weird opinions, wait until they actually announce what they will do and how they will do it, then nag them about it and not us

[vernal moth]

instead of debating stuff you guys don't know?

[quick obsidian]

like what hypixel does with ez?

[daring laurel]

which you just got finished saying you will heavily motivate their decision?

[molten egret]

Yeah

[ashen cliff]

I mean, going by Mojangs current track record... worst possible solution, like always.

[coarse venture]

If someone enjoys going around servers with their attack towards certain groups, finally gets sanctioned, im welcome the global ban.

[wide chasm]

I mean, it would be nice if Mojang was more open and would actually explain how they plan to take action, then people wouldn't have to start guessing blindly.

[magic river]

If you read the end of the article it gives some suggestions: deep breaths, step away, identify why you're getting angry, come back later and try to solve the problem

[quick obsidian]

i like the idea that children under 13 on servers get shown 'heck' and 'frick' as replacements thats hilarious

[twin lagoon]

you'd think that maybe they will release that once the system is actually out

just maybe

[golden gust]

Okay, I think that this conversation ends here, this is clearly going nowhere and, unless people are actually willing to reach out to mojang, this is clearly an entirely pointless discussion

[vernal moth]

I have more info than you have, I can see the bigger picture

[cedar spade]

no michael we need answers NOW

[quick obsidian]

[twin lagoon]

@cedar spade

[wide chasm]

I think it would have been better to be more transparent about this from the start, because now people see that you're doing something, but have no idea what the effects of the changes will be.

[coarse venture]

spotted lol

[worthy geode]

Looks like they forgot the feedback thread for 22w24a. the link in the announcement leads to pre-release 1 of 1.19

[shy eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/right-now-eric-cartman-craig-tucker-lola-south-park-gif-22863637

[cedar spade]

MOJANG MUST ANSWER FOR THEIR CRIMES

[molten egret]

We don’t need to know the internal workings and how word processing is used, we need the basic structure of punishments

[limber knot]

just violate your nda mini Kappa

[quick obsidian]

they'll probably fix that

[vernal moth]

ok, topic switch, what hangar feature should I work on next?

[waxen panther]

you dont have to ask mini to do that

[golden gust]

potatis

[mental meadow]

good topic

[quick obsidian]

the eta timer

[golden gust]

Needs more potatis!

[quick obsidian]

don't kill me mini

[limber knot]

premium resources with subscriptions mini :P

[coarse venture]

swear filter for reviews

[mental meadow]

please actually improve the menu

[molten egret]

Google sign in

[vernal moth]

which menu?

[warm anchor]

No more feature can you release it tomorrow?

[quiet mesa]

What are the currently implemented (?

[lilac moon]

you have to go "he he he ha"

[twin lagoon]

using the modrinth UI

[cedar spade]

A search filter that blocks out any plugins that disable signed chat

[waxen panther]

i think you should work on a rewrite

[golden gust]

google auth wouldn't he hangar stuff, that would be the auth platform

[quick obsidian]

i think you should change vue framework again

[shy eagle]

What does hanger mean in this context? Lol

[mental meadow]

the general menu is kinda shit, I can't find half the things I want to see, like moderation stuff I have to click through 5 pages to access

[crystal lily]

Hangar is our upcoming plugin repository. For further information and to follow the development join the Hangar Discord: https://discord.gg/zvrAEbvJ4a

[golden gust]

the plugin repo we're working on

[quick obsidian]

papers new plugin repo

[tropic flame]

I hate the experience with Google Sign-In in almost every website I use tbh

[vernal moth]

http://hangar.benndorf.dev/

[mental meadow]

I MADE A COMMAND FOR IT

IT'S epic

[quick obsidian]

congratulations aurora

[vernal moth]

hangar got passwordless signin now

[molten egret]

You can always sign in by hand too

[magic river]

Hey, couldn't hangar just be an instance of modrinth now? 😛

[limber knot]

why google login? this is a microsoft game :P

[lilac moon]

darn

[warm anchor]

We are changing topic to something that we can actually control and work on

[tropic flame]

jokes on you, the MS account where I have minecraft was created with a gmail address

[magic river]

https://github.com/modrinth/knossos look they even use vue

[lilac moon]

hanger is the wrong hangar

[fast scarab]

Work on hangar?

[lilac moon]

airplane hangar

[meager tusk]

I can control everyone bro.

Who do you want me to control.

One phone call away.

[lilac moon]

vue?!

[meager tusk]

KGBPhone.

[lilac moon]

idk how vue works

is it static generation

[daring laurel]

whats the difference between the authentication portal and the login/signup buttons in top right? https://i.imgur.com/7m48tUp.png

[shy eagle]

I mean when will azure have machine learning red stone cloud stuff like it’s past due

[vernal moth]

outdated vue tho

[twin lagoon]

looks better tho

[vernal moth]

nothing

[daring laurel]

then why have both-- its just confusing

[spiral robin]

[tropic flame]

well, sure

but predominantly, my issues with it on most websites are:
1 - i can't unlink the account from google sign-in and switch to regular email-password without opening a support ticket
2 - in one of the websites i literally managed to enter a sort of limbo where I have an account with google sign-in and an account with the same email and no amount of deleting the google sign-in one will actually work

i guess second part is stupidity from the website but if the first one can be addressed, then nice

[meager tusk]

Modrinth is probably my favorite mod website.

Ever.

Out of any game.

[quick obsidian]

i dont know about everyone else, but i don't want 2 ways to do the same thing, i want one, simple, fast way

[coarse venture]

You learn to live with it. aux

[cedar spade]

They're the same thing

[daring laurel]

also, can there be an explanation of what the sign in with security key does, since it's not really explained... a ? that I can hover over would be really nice

[quick obsidian]

no need for separate log in and sign up buttons either, that's ui clutter

[waxen panther]

no auxilor, i would actually like 15 different slow ways 🤓

[spiral robin]

[daring laurel]

also hangar api is completely empty 🙂

[quick obsidian]

sign up should just be a button once you're on the log in screen, that's how most websites do it

[meager tusk]

Broccolai Comedian

[magic river]

Holy cow modrinth is a vue frontend, rust backend, and has a gradle plugin to automate releases

[quick obsidian]

rust backend

[twin lagoon]

yeah it's great

[waxen panther]

thats broccolai to you pal

[lilac moon]

WTF modern technology

[daring laurel]

also the forums button at the bottom points at the old forums btw...

[meager tusk]

BRO.

[quick obsidian]

how did it integrate gradle with rust?

[lilac moon]

maybe i will have to become a modrinth backend developer

[quick obsidian]

i thought gradle was only jvm

[magic river]

The gradle part and the rust part have nothing to do with each other

[lilac moon]

idk what gradle does

[cedar spade]

It's not finished, you can PR :p

[ashen cliff]

Bro. Got to make sure everything is custom.

[magic river]

Well, the gradle part probably calls a URL the rust part serves

[lilac moon]

i usually jkust use shell scripts or makefile

[magic river]

millions 😛

[quick obsidian]

depends on the code

[quick obsidian]

but a lot more, because php is trash

[twin lagoon]

can also use it for javascript

and c++ iirc

[quick obsidian]

oh cool nvm

[ashen cliff]

Do explain why.

[lilac moon]

why gradle though

[meager tusk]

Why not just make a php webserver with no css and just a list of mods rendered?

[lilac moon]

what is, rust?

[spiral robin]

TRUE

[magic river]

PHP is actually a lot faster these days

[quick obsidian]

i knew it could do kotlin/native but i thought it was exclusively for jvm-compatible languages

[spiral robin]

modern php is actually so epic

[quick obsidian]

oh fair enough didn't know that

[magic river]

You still don't want to do any computational work in it but at least it isn't as slow as Python

[twin lagoon]

laravel php with singlestoredb my favourite 😍

[quick obsidian]

i've always learned php to be trash

[spiral robin]

Silence

[lilac moon]

imagine writing a frontend in rust webasm

[golden gust]

php is fairly good

[magic river]

Oh the language is complete garbage

[golden gust]

Just, php is plagued by shit devs

[quick obsidian]

yeah syntax is awful

[golden gust]

and, the stdlib is fucking ass

[magic river]

But the implementation means it isn't the slowest language out there anymore

[lilac moon]

php is nice to deal with on webservers

[quick obsidian]

. for concatenation, all variables have to start with $ like it's bash

[lilac moon]

easy to deal with'

[coarse venture]

I was happy that i could use php over asp back in the day - before most of you weren't even born.

[golden gust]

but, like, other than that, it's okay to work with

[daring laurel]

https://github.com/HangarMC/Hangar/pull/676

[quick obsidian]

back in my day

[waxen panther]

🥸

[magic river]

Hey now I'm the old man of the server, only I get to do "back in my day" 😛

[coarse venture]

https://grammarist.com/usage/back-in-the-day/#:~:text=Back in the day is,one the speaker remembers fondly.

[lilac moon]

g

[waxen panther]

https://grammarist.com/spelling/gray-grey/

[quick obsidian]

more talking about the 'before most of you were even born' part

[lilac moon]

WHY g

too much g

[magic river]

I mean, you're definitely older, but still 😄

[coarse venture]

babies

[meager tusk]

Hangar rewrite in PHP when?

[coarse venture]

you're all babies!!

[magic river]

I think I started doing PHP in 2000?

[quick obsidian]

i started coding in 2011 but that's not saying much because i was born in 2004

[coarse venture]

I hate being 45, the point of no return. Only downhill from here.

[spiral robin]

@true canyon ❤️

[true canyon]

How many years have you been php free?

Got your token yet?

[true canyon]

[magic river]

lol, I think that was 2006

[spiral robin]

My favourite mod ❤️

[mental meadow]

lol it's been downhill since like 14 or so y'all are living in luxury

[unkempt jackal]

Hey this is from bbaboac website

[meager tusk]

Been downhill since being born in Balkon.

[ashen cliff]

Can confirm.

[golden gust]

as somebody who has the loosest understanding of history, can confirm

[ashen cliff]

You mean, because England didn't have time to steal from Balkan?

[golden gust]

To be fair, we didn't need to go their to cause misery

[coarse venture]

eh. bit flat

[golden gust]

Y'all where well adept at doing that yourselves

peace in the balkans? bahahahaaa

Still waiting for a 20 year gap where slavs aren't killing slavs for being slavs

[meager tusk]

[Summoned Milosevic]

Fuck.

[quick obsidian]

ill see you 2000 years from now

[meager tusk]

There goes peace in Balkon.

[tropic flame]

you reminded me of this masterpiece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcgIUhF7O58

[golden gust]

I mean, it's just sad when you really think about it, the region is full of some of the hardiest people around

yet, just ain't no break for the balkans

[quick obsidian]

there will be peace in the balkans once humans are extinct

[meager tusk]

No.

Because we aren't humans.

We're our own species.

[quick obsidian]

are you lamda

[golden gust]

The balkans will find a way

[lilac moon]

a

i did not invent discord sex

[coarse venture]

Hey, at least nobody's talking about 1.19.1's topic anymore.

[void void]

Don’t jinx it floris

[meager tusk]

If the next version is 1.20 I'll flip shit.

[quick obsidian]

i like the fact that google made an ai that said it was sentient because it was trained with stuff that included existentialism

[meager tusk]

1.20 = 1.2.

Wtf man.

[quick obsidian]

that was like 9 years ago

[lilac moon]

what's 1.19.1

[quick obsidian]

no more than that

[lilac moon]

why

does 20 not come after 19

[meager tusk]

Has to be 2.0.

Has to.

[quick obsidian]

idriz ur gonna be blown away when you learn 1.10 existed

[lilac moon]

1.13 shouldve been 2.0 imo

[quick obsidian]

i agree

[lilac moon]

if anything could be 2.0

[meager tusk]

Fuck, I forgot.

I was pretty pissed then too.

[magic river]

You can get in to some serious philosophical debates about whether things like GPT-3 are sentient

[lilac moon]

its literally how numbers work

[magic river]

Pretty sure none of them are or will be sapient any time soon though

[quick obsidian]

train something to replicate existentialism and it can talk about existentialism

[lilac moon]

sapient

[meager tusk]

Sure, ugly numbers.

[quick obsidian]

i don't think we'll get actual sentience from ai ever

we'll get things that look and act sentient though

[lilac moon]

wait until you find out about web browser versions

[meager tusk]

I don't care about web browsers.

Only IE.

Fucking corporate.

[quick obsidian]

ie's dead

got killed off a few days ago

[lilac moon]

this reminds me of that one time when like linus said he was going to move linux to 5.0 for no reason just because the minor version was getting too big

[magic river]

A mouse is sentient so it's not a high bar 😛

[ashen cliff]

Nah bro. IE is forever.

[meager tusk]

IE finds a way.

[lilac moon]

is a computer conscious though

[quick obsidian]

no

[lilac moon]

thats the real question

[quick obsidian]

then again we don't even know if humans are actually sentient either but then you get into free will debates and shit

[unkempt jackal]

Bro, I'll shoot a computer if it tries pulling this crap

[meager tusk]

Not if it can't beat me up.

[tropic flame]

lol IE remnants should still be around Windows somewhere - there's a reason why trying to fully remove IE in other versions of Windows just renders the system unstable

naive to think MS did anything different for Windows 11

[magic river]

Just because you control the step function of their brain doesn't mean they aren't

[quick obsidian]

ok so what if you put a 'sentient' ai into a boston dynamics robot?

[lilac moon]

what if every other person in your life is just a robot or simulation and youre the only actual human

[magic river]

If you could stop all biological processes in a mouse on command it'd still be sentient (unless what you did killed it)

[quick obsidian]

you can stop all biological processes in a mouse on command

[magic river]

Ok, I meant stop and start 😛

Not just kill it

[quick obsidian]

oh lol

didn't they do that in the 50s

[lilac moon]

killall -9 mouse

[magic river]

pause would be a better word there

[lilac moon]

oops i killed all the mice

[quick obsidian]

taskkill -f -im mouse.exe

[meager tusk]

Are you guys arguing if computer mice are sentient?

[lilac moon]

no real mice

[quick obsidian]

dead then resuscitated

sounds like a stop start to me

[lilac moon]

unconscious then reconscious'

[coarse venture]

killall -9

[magic river]

Imagine if someone could put a breakpoint in your brain and you'd just pause while they poked around the registers

[quick obsidian]

frozen solid

[coarse venture]

sigkill the process forcefully pls

[magic river]

You could argue that's what is happening to GPT-3

[meager tusk]

Can't do that.

[lilac moon]

you can do -9 iwth killall right

[meager tusk]

I have nothing up there

[lilac moon]

this is a bad trhing to test

[quick obsidian]

gpt-3 is just the best imitation of human language that we have

[meager tusk]

That we know of*.

[magic river]

killall is dangerous, some non-GNU systems don't take a process name argument for that and it's basically a reboot of userspace

[quick obsidian]

yeah but if we don't know about it then for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist

[lilac moon]

well ill remember to type a process

should i test it

[magic river]

https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E86824_01/html/E54764/killall-1m.html

[quick obsidian]

when you delete things, they get sent to /usr/bin - remember to rm -rf /usr/bin to actually delete files

[lilac moon]

thanks

[coarse venture]

When possible, you should send an ordinary SIGTERM signal to a process that you wish to end. Immediately killing a service with a SIGKILL signal is effective every time and will give you instant results, but can cause future problems since the process didn’t get a chance to shut down properly.

[lilac moon]

wtf rm commandd not found!!!

[quick obsidian]

are you on windows

oh

nvm

[lilac moon]

yes thats what i do

[quick obsidian]

im slow

[lilac moon]

just kill or killall without flags defaults to sigtemr

[magic river]

So on Solaris trying to do killall chrome would just kill everything but init

[lilac moon]

well i tested it on musl and it does not wpork

[quick obsidian]

am i right in saying that sigterm is asking it to shutdown nicely and sigkill is for things that are completely unresponsive where sigterm has no effect

[lilac moon]

wait no not musl

my mind is going blank

[quick obsidian]

what's musl?

something something subsystem for linux?

[lilac moon]

musl is just the libc right

[magic river]

Yes, you can listen for and block SIGTERM so it gives you time to clean up and shut down

[quick obsidian]

gotcha

[magic river]

SIGKILL the kernel just blows the thing away

[lilac moon]

SIGINT is similar but i think it's more interactive, it's what happens when you ctrl-c

[quick obsidian]

so sigkill presumably leaves you with a bunch of allocated and un-freeable memory

[lilac moon]

no the OS will free it

[quick obsidian]

oh ok

[magic river]

The kernel always cleans up file handles and memory allocations and such

[lilac moon]

you could have corrupted files the program was in the process of writing

[quick obsidian]

can the kernel sigkill itself?

[magic river]

That's called an OOPS 😄

[lilac moon]

magic sysrq?

[magic river]

Oh wait oops is non-fatal

[quick obsidian]

i'm not a linux daily driver, i use macOS a lot though

[lilac moon]

BUSYBOX thats what it is

idk how i forgot that name

[quick obsidian]

but i'm not much of a linux connouseur

[lilac moon]

thats like bsd then

[quick obsidian]

the most technically advanced thing i've ever done is make an arch install

yeah unix-like

fully posix compliant at least

[magic river]

Kernel panic is a thing on every OS. On macOS you get some "we encountered a problem" overlay on whatever was on the screen, written in 12 languages. On Windows you get a BSOD

[quick obsidian]

never had a mac kernel panic but i know what they look like

[lilac moon]

on linux it just freezes 💀

[quick obsidian]

windows kernel panics a lot because NT is garbage

[lilac moon]

you have to check journalctl after reboot

[magic river]

Linux tries to write the panic to the framebuffer

[lilac moon]

oh does it

[quick obsidian]

oh so just prints the raw log to the screen?

[lilac moon]

for me it's always just frozen inexplicably

[magic river]

If that fails it also tries to write it to disk and to a special UEFI variable that can be read (and cleared) next boot

[quick obsidian]

depends on the distro surely

i'm sure some have actual kernel panic screens

[lilac moon]

idk

sounds like som,ething that would be handled insid ethe kernel itself

maybe it doesnyt like nvidia

[quick obsidian]

can't wait for intel arc gpu's to be equally shit with linux

[molten egret]

Ubuntu doesn’t panic it has gnome which will crash so fucking easily that a real panic can never happen

[magic river]

Depending on your setup and what kind of panic it was sometimes that draws on top of whatever was on the screen last

[lilac moon]

i have never seen this happen during a kernel panic

[quick obsidian]

the classic feature of having something that will fail before the system does

[magic river]

No fancy overlays or anything though, just little black squares around each letter

[golden gust]

gnome 2 was the peek of linux

[quick obsidian]

yeah thats what i was assuming

[magic river]

I haven't seen it happen since like 2007

[lilac moon]

oh

[quick obsidian]

i mean linux is very stable

[molten egret]

And the only thing you can to is reisub

[lilac moon]

maybe its different now

[golden gust]

reboot, even, if, system, utterly, broken

[scenic sleet]

furnaces dont work neither does gravel work