Game that has more replayability is better
#general
warm anchor
magic river
It's funny, blue is basically the only OLED color they ever figured out how to make not suck
And they had that figured out in the 90s
To the point that we gave up on making the other colors work and do some crazy quantum dot stuff to just color shift blue to red and green so we only have to use blue
Oh, wait a minute, I got that backwards 😄
So why is this new tech based on blue?
That's the one with the shortest lifetime
The quantum dot stuff still makes sense as it also ensures you get more consistent burn in/dimming like plasma
I guess the quantum dot stuff can only slow things down so you can go from blue to, presumably, any color but violet
primal solar
because it provides a certain freedom to the player, it triggers a weird phenomenon in brain which entices a player to a make-believe world where they can do anything which is not possible in real world
I cant go wearing diamond clothes with a diamond sword and stab the hell out of a person irl but i can in mc
BTW does anyone know how seeds work, like is every digit a specific code or something or is just like unique id which is randomly generated
golden gust
it's just a number
The main thing for a seed is that it's a fixed number (at least, at runtime), in which is used as the seed of other operations
magic river
It's the initial state of a random number generator
Each digit doesn't really mean anything, it's just a snapshot of the RNG, basically
Don't use this for anything but here is a simple example:
struct xorshift32_state {
uint32_t a;
};
/* The state word must be initialized to non-zero */
uint32_t xorshift32(struct xorshift32_state *state)
{
/* Algorithm "xor" from p. 4 of Marsaglia, "Xorshift RNGs" */
uint32_t x = state->a;
x ^= x << 13;
x ^= x >> 17;
x ^= x << 5;
return state->a = x;
}
state->a is the seed, as you can see the RNG mutates it to generate a new state which it stores and returns
With a different starting state you get a different sequence of numbers
merry talon
this is making me wonder what happens if you mutate the seed in a serialized world
magic river
Then world generation is basically just if (x < 12) grass else sand but far more complicated and done for everything
More complicated mostly because pure random doesn't make interesting worlds, it makes a mess
merry talon
but like, if you've got partly generated biomes
I guess it wouldn't care
tbh I have no idea how biome and feature generation works, like normal structures seem simple enough because they don't vary
ashen cliff
Depends on your use case.
tropic flame
so I was searching for mods that add controller support for Minecraft and I come across this:
"my girlfriend and I are experts on using Linux"
said no one ever 
vapid pier
Depends on your use case.
Network with bungee - 3 gamemodes
ashen cliff
2x Rise-GAME-1 then probably.
vernal moth
Cross device testing is so much fun...
Please all join me for a combined fuck you apple please
Cause safari is an utter mess
mental meadow
I think the name fits
because getting something to work for it is like going on a safari
vernal moth
Oh yeah safari is quite the adventure
dim jungle
not sure if this is the right place to ask, but how do i stop idea from stalling whilst loading my projects? it stays on "Reopening files" and never progesses
mossy vessel
Rumors say, not even Apple users use Safari
vernal moth
It's like, wtf
Where is my background
Oh bad pic
Also my poor date picker
At least Samsung internet also ignores the date picker placeholder
Which is fun since Samsung internet is just a bad fork of chromium
(as in, actual fork fork, not just using chromium)
mossy vessel
Don't you have a like ya know, compatibility matrix aggregated on the top OS users? Felt noice to kick out Internet Explorer very recently 
vernal moth
Oh IE I don't support
Es6 only
This is an iphone 8, one of our most used devices still
mossy vessel
Understandable
vernal moth
mossy vessel
Though iirc, my factory samsung device even shipped Chrome by default, but on iOS you deal with Safari
vernal moth
Woooo
twin lagoon
@mossy vessel 
mossy vessel
Good morning michele 
hazy badger
mental meadow
#paper-help would be better^^
topaz mortar
Rumors say, not even Apple users use Safari
The engine is the same. Apple doesn't allow FF or Chrome to use their own web engine. Under the hood it's all crapple-web-engine.
vernal moth
(on Ios)
tender cloud
Please all join me for a combined fuck you apple please
Fuck you apple!
That felt good.
charred sleet
Anyone here used/have a framework laptop
velvet wagon
does upgrading from 1.18.1 to 1.18.2 effect plugins?
limber knotBOT
only if they use internal stuff that isn't plugin api
but you would be noticing that pretty quickly, just check them all if updates are available and you should be fine
1.18.2 has been out for a while now
velvet wagon
alright thanks :)
silver nexus
Rumors say, not even Apple users use Safari
Can confirm this to be true.
solar meteor
am i the only one still having a horrible time using the Microsoft launcher . its like 1 in 20 times its able to link to my account
visual egret
why do you lot hate safari? it kinda just works apart from a few css things
golden gust
It just works, except
We only recently got webm support
They've finally comiited to trying to update often and decouple the updates from the os potentially
But, they're literally the new IE
vernal moth
why do you lot hate safari? it kinda just works apart from a few css things
It works until it doesn't
They just don't implement the standards properly
visual egret
oh, typical apple doing things their own way?
mental meadow
Apple: What is a standard? Surely everyone likes our way better
vernal moth
Over the whole range, there are simple things that just work differently to what the spec says, plus some apis they just refuse to implement (webpush for example)
visual egret
that’s fun
vernal moth
They also only recently implanted gap, leading us to having to replace all our usage of gap over the whole project since not everybody can get that new safari version since it's coupled to OS version...
topaz mortar
OS updates just to push an updated browser. 🤡
Apple style. Even xcode can be updated without needing a new os update.
visual egret
xcode isn’t built into the OS, unlike safari
cunning raft
safari doesn't need to be
they literally have had an app store on mac longer than windows
and windows can do updates for fuckin wsl over their store
topaz mortar
xcode isn’t built into the OS, unlike safari
It's an application that can be easily extracted.
On non mobile device other browsers can be updated as well.
The only reason why it could be, is that the appstore is a webpage with a wrapper and thus the engine needs to be updated with the os.
Android is able to update the whole android services and the web engine via store.
visual egret
I know, I was just pointing something out
scarlet axle
visual egret
cool
vernal moth
Ok, finally how, what do I need to do to wash my hands from having used Iphones and even Ipads all day?
mental meadow
i can offer 90% alcohol + fire
cosmic raft
lol
vernal moth
I can't drink again, still a bit dead from last week and this week will be full of drinking again too! 😂
vernal moth
Just read something cursed:
"Naming is one of the hardest things in programming.
Spreadsheets are programming almost entirely without naming."
vernal moth
I'll always go with an iPhone for my phone choice going forward
But they have no usable browser....
cosmic raft
huh?
vernal moth
Like, I am about to just go home, the iphone whatever here just doesn't display two checkboxes that all other browsers display just fine
So I can't go to the next page
I don't fucking know why
cosmic raft
weird
vernal moth
And I can't debug cause I can't connect it to my laptop like with all the Android phones and tablets I have here
All just let somebody else figure this one out tomorrow
The other design bugs I could at least fix
vernal moth
That would take like am hour and idk if we even still have the passwords and shit
Heck, we have two!
vagrant marlin
Ok, finally how, what do I need to do to wash my hands from having used Iphones ...
gotta chop the hands off
they'll grow back
magic river
Isn't the EU in the middle of passing laws that will force iOS to let you install real Firefox?
vernal moth
Is that also part of DSA/DMA?
I haven't heard that point yet
But yes, major legislation is in the works
Which will force Whatsapp to speak to telegram or stuff like that
quasi cave
I did in fact use google thoroughly... it seems all the marketplaces use PayPal over Stripe, which i'd argue is out of date, Stripe is clearly superior and I have used PayPal in the past but surely there is a marketplace that accepts payments from Stripe instead of PayPal?
true canyon
As I understand it, stripe takes extra setup. People are lazy.
mental meadow
PayPal is not out of date and stripe is not always clearly superior. It really depends on sales volume and a few other things. I have projects where Stripe is cheaper, I have projects where PayPal is cheaper
quasi cave
I suppose, I may be biased, I just often wonder as I believe it also has cheaper processing fees afaik
mental meadow
the other thing is that most people have a PayPal account, and stripe by default only really supports credit cards, every other payment provider you have to set up manually. And here a lot of people just don't have a credit card
limber knotBOT
also paypal is available in way more countries 👀
topaz mortar
And I can't debug cause I can't connect it to my laptop like with all the Androi...
You likely need a Mac for that. 😅
limber knotBOT
also iirc stripe requires the seller to actually have a business (although I never tried setting up a seller account with them, that's just what I got a while ago from their FAQ)
mental meadow
you don't need a business, but they are catered towards businesses
also, PayPal has way better rates for nonprofits
quasi cave
also iirc stripe requires the seller to actually have a business (although I nev...
that makes sense as to why I see it being used more on things like Minecraft models with curated vendors
vernal moth
PayPal is so much more user friendly too
mental meadow
like don't get me wrong, I prefer Stripe > PayPal, but I'd still use PayPal over Stripe in pretty much any project
limber knotBOT
I think the reason why it's used in this space is just because of the ease of use: you can buy stuff from a paypal seller just with their email
like an extension for buying with paypal is extremely easy to write and requires zero auth with paypal on the seller side (only from the website owner)
quasi cave
PayPal is so much more user friendly too
I've used it before and yeah I suppose, I just have personal preference for Stripe, I used to use PayPal heavily before moving to Stripe
mental meadow
The Stripe API is pretty epic
vernal moth
As a seller I can understand the desire for PayPal, but as a user, PayPal is so much nicer in like every single way
limber knotBOT
can't wait for EU banks to finally support a unified electronic payment system Kappa
vernal moth
Aka SEPA?
limber knotBOT
yeah but with the ease of use of paypal 👀
ideal
mental meadow
Mastercard Debit is very epic
vernal moth
SEPA instant is quite nice
Don't want a central company like visa or Mastercard
Plus it's free, lol
mental meadow
well no
twin lagoon
there's benefits to using a card though
limber knotBOT
is there any official EU payment notification API? or do you still have to go through a third party service like paypal just to actually have SEPA be usefull for web shops? lol
mental meadow
You always have to go through a payment provider/bank
You do not get access to the whole SEPA system unless you are a registered bank, which makes sense from a financial security standpoint, but how epic would be like a proper open API for you to use to accept SEPA payments
limber knotBOT
isn't it part of the EU laws that banks need to provide a unified api for that or do I misremember that?
vernal moth
You only get access to those apis if you actually a company dealing with any of this
mental meadow
unified don't know, public definitely not
vernal moth
Psd2
limber knotBOT
I mean, if you sell stuff then you are probably a company ¯_(ツ)_/¯
mental meadow
"company dealing with any of this" = bank, or payment providers, which are also almost always registered banks
vernal moth
No, also fintechs
vernal moth
E.g i have an app that logs into all my bank accounts and shows me all transfers
Automagically detects contracts and stuff and tells me how much money I have left in the month or how long it would take me to save X
limber knotBOT
an open source one? 👀
mental meadow
is it finanzguru
vernal moth
Yes
mental meadow
I'd love to use them again but they still aren't available in Austria, only like 5 years after they promised it
on the other hand I'm not really happy with giving some third party access to all my paayment history
mental meadow
limber knotBOT
yeah, same. Ideally banks would just have APIs that allow auth with your normal account ¯_(ツ)_/¯
but I only have two banks and only use one so I just use their (not perfect) app lol
vernal moth
The insights are worth it tbh
mental meadow
they are, I'm just not happy about it
limber knotBOT
I wonder if that zip existed when the TÜV certified them or not lol
mental meadow
and also I'm angry that they still aren't available
vernal moth
That doesn't even look like read credentials or a real website
More like a sample project somebody shared
Still bad but not a security incident
mental meadow
limber knotBOT
it's not too hard to imagine that they reused the passwords though lol
mental meadow
vernal moth
But aurora, Finanzguru has to be legit, they were on TV! And Maschmeyer invested in them!
limber knotBOT
hm, apparently there is a Berlin Group of banks which try to create unified banking access APIs
magic river
Interesting, cloudflare and google have both had brief connection issues
woven python
hm, apparently there is a Berlin Group of banks which try to create unified bank...
thats just Bitcoin Lightning Network
magic river
But the level3 one was fine so I was still on the internet
merry talon
I just wish virtual cards were more of a thing
limber knotBOT
well at least there is tons of big (german) banks part of it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
and apparently also a good chunk of international ones (see my api playground link)
woven python
Like every bank is going to try and compete to make their own standard, so they should just use the one that already exists, that no one owns, and is interoperable automatically with anyone who uses it.
ashen cliff
Interesting, cloudflare and google have both had brief connection issues
Probably some backbone BS?
tawdry hazel
Wh're doth i download the latest pap'r?
wide chasm
crystal lilyBOT
wide chasm
Paper uses Java, so yes, you'll need Java to run it.
limber knotBOT
you run it "with" java
wet storm
you need to have at least jre
merry talon
I run paper with rust, it's faster and memory safe
well, I had to pay some shady dude on mcm for it
wet storm
I mean, he is trolling, to run paper you need java, being concrete, at least Java Runtime Environment, but if you already have Java Development Kit installed, you don't need to install JRE. So yeah, Paper is written in java, and you need "java" to run it.
merry talon
why is paper written in java when i heard kotlin is better
how can i contact the owner of paper
i have an idea
wet storm
||"I don't see why you would use anything not developed by Mojang, the developer of Minecraft. They want to make sure everything runs properly. Putting a bucket on top of your server will not help it run better. It will only hurt it. Paper? Come on. Snake oil. Putting a piece of paper does not help. And don't even get me started about Spigot. There is no way opening a spigot outside your house will make the internet go faster."||
merry talon
Statements uttered by the deranged
wet storm
I mean, it is a pasta, that's why I spoiled it and placed "" around it
true canyon
cool down
void void
https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/minecraft-1-19-pre-release-4
small diff today
plucky plaza
When coding a plugin, can I use the same libraries that the application uses?
vernal moth
Sure
plucky plaza
👍
magic river
it was probably dns
I mean, you're not completely wrong, I am pinging DNS servers
Oh it looks like the server at least is/was doing signature validation on chat
Weird, I would think only the client would care about that
Timezone issues apparently were causing the server to reject the messages due to being too old (or probably too new, I bet the error message doesn't tell the difference)
vernal moth
Yeah it just knows expired
I don't see anything about timezone stuff in the diff
They changed the delta to 5 minutes from 2
So can be 5 min out of date now
The actual but was that they first checked for expired and then order
Not updating the order when expired, thus messing stuff up
Now they first check and update order, then check if it's expired
Tracking down that one must have been fun, lmao
Because paper uses bstats
And some plugins might too
Then disable it in the config
Bstats config
But please don't, it allows us to see how many servers use our software and on which versions and stuff
wide chasm
You can't get rid of the folder, it will always be there.
wide chasm
I mean, at that point you delete it, Paper will generate it again, etc. in an endless cycle.
warm anchor
wraith trail
You can use a dns level block
Just block bstats.org/route it to something nonexistent
vernal moth
How is bstats evil? Lol
ripe sphinx
but like just disable it in the config and you'll have the same end result
vernal moth
It's literally open source
ripe sphinx
and it's all anonymous
vernal moth
They send anonymous usage stats
ripe sphinx
nothing identifying is sent
jade flax
And I think you have to enable it
twin lagoon
no it's opt-out
vernal moth
No it's opt out
wide chasm
bStats does not have your search history
ripe sphinx
how would they have your search history
twin lagoon
bstats definitely has your search history
jade flax
Ah yes, they hacked your toaster
ripe sphinx
Michael I don't think they understand sarcasm
wide chasm
!kick 889239120428273694 Trolling
void void
And I think you have to enable it
that's sponge
ripe sphinx
void void
!kick 889239120428273694 Trolling
nice
wide chasm
Eraser down
vernal moth
The bot is sleeping stef
wide chasm
Yeah, did a manual one
twin lagoon
woooo manual kicks
twin lagoon
velocity is the same yes
magic river
That's... quite a difference
I mean, for most apps "it doesn't matter how fast you can wait for IO" but still, wow
Amusingly some JS things are actually faster than that Go result
Although I'm pretty sure they're wrappers around https://github.com/uNetworking/uWebSockets.js/ which is decidedly not JS
twin lagoon
that's enough (banned fyi)
warm anchor
The one time I can ban bot is down 
ripe sphinx
because as much as I hate it, I wouldn't be too surprised if they legitimately believed all that conspiracy crap
void void
!
true canyon
!!!
vernal moth
https://web-frameworks-benchmark.netlify.app/result?f=gorilla-mux%2Caxum%2Cactix...
Love how the second highest overall is java
twin lagoon
oh my fucking god there's multi prefix
void void
that too
twin lagoon
can use the same prefix across all of my servers now
quasi valley
michael has my search history
magic river
Love how the second highest overall is java
Yeah but most of the ones at the top you wouldn't actually want to use 😛
You'd put something on top of them to make them less of a pain that would then slow you down
magic river
undertow is fairly usable
It's kind of like JS stuff before async/await though 😛
Pretty much all high performance Java IO is
Needs more loom
worn ember
smells like german in here
magic river
actix or axum are the rust ones I think would be "user friendly" to the extent anything in a low level language can be
They aren't the fastest rust results
Could definitely argue rapidoid is more user friendly and it's faster, although iirc if you want to do something slightly outside of what that library is made for it's a PITA
ripe sphinx
isn't rapidoid dead?
magic river
Probably
It wouldn't be that hard to make a rapidoid-like API around undertow
And undertow was faster anyway so even if you take a perf hit from the wrapper you might still come out ahead of rapidoid
lavish compass
https://web-frameworks-benchmark.netlify.app/result?f=gorilla-mux%2Caxum%2Cactix...
actix 💪
twin lagoon
@warm anchor 
twin lagoon
uwu
turbid oar
Good morning 👋
lavish compass
<@290921387655430144> how’s exam
got one last one- then i have assessments the rest of the week
@twin lagoon 
turbid oar
Hello Michael
wet storm
The bot is sleeping stef
Who is the creator / owner of eraser? (or how is it called?) The bot looks cool
twin lagoon
dooley
ripe sphinx
It's "whitelisted", only large guilds get access afaik
twin lagoon
same bot that runs on the linustechtips guild
ripe sphinx
(The bot's actual name is Warship, it's just nicknamed here)
warm anchor
I like @crystal lily better
twin lagoon
fucking weeb
ripe sphinx
atropos gang
wet storm
fu7cking weeeb
meager tusk
Wow.
Paper has actually good mods.
Wtf.
Eternity AND Michale.
Must be a dream.
wide chasm
Paper has actually good mods.
Are you implying I wasn't a good mod?! 😠
wet storm
stef is the best
lavish compass
charred sleet
well done kneny i love that you are so good at spelling
ashen cliff
true canyon
Nah, we're all crap but those two saved the day.
turbid oar
Did you just call yourself crap? 
twin lagoon
@true canyon 🥺
graceful wyvern
uwu mical
turbid oar
Why are you pleading michael?
true canyon
<@71627708521512960> 🥺
🥺
turbid oar
Michael goes ahead and ignores me 
ashen cliff
@twin lagoon
twin lagoon
@ashen cliff
ashen cliff
Good.
turbid oar
I bet its because of the dumb past or something 🙄
twin lagoon
chief i have no goddamn clue who you are
ashen cliff
We need a Paper SS13 server.
Need to see the chaos and me getting banned.
turbid oar
chief i have no goddamn clue who you are
oh thought you do whenever Kevin said "You know who he is right?" and you said "I am well aware"
turbid oar
I was a bit of a shit back then to be honest
ashen cliff
Still are apparently.
ashen cliff
Then why are you trying to remind people of your past?
turbid oar
um.. because I feel like it?
ashen cliff
Understandable.
spiral robin
ashen cliff
Good luck on your endeavors.
turbid oar
pretty funny
Obviously some of you guys cannot take jokes and I think this is more funny
but anyways I am going to talk about a different subject
ashen cliff
Don't worry, we are waiting.
turbid oar
Don't worry, we are waiting.
well goodluck waiting for a while
ashen cliff
Regardless, I'm still amazed that there are no Eye-Fi cards on sale in Europe.
limber knotBOT
"The service is defunct as of December 1, 2018." 
ashen cliff
"The service is defunct as of December 1, 2018." <:thonk:463842968097521675>
That includes used ones.
magic river
Only question is how many GPU cores and what clocks
It's the same Zen 2 + RDNA2 setup otherwise
ashen cliff
Not bad. Was kind of looking for something in that form factor for inhome streaming.
magic river
There is also the AYN Loki coming at $499 with a 6600U and 64GB storage
I don't know the other specs but for that price it sounds like it'd beat the Steam Deck on everything but storage
I doubt they'd put a worse screen in, or at least not a lower resolution one
Who knows on build quality, feel in hand, battery life, etc
limber knotBOT
well input buttons/systems is one area where the steam deck is better though
having touch pads and a sane stick layout is important for some stuff
runs
magic river
A lot of that is just Steam
I haven't actually used the touchpads for anything other than desktop mode yet
But I mostly play platformers
This thing looks really small though, going to guess it's almost pocketable, feels nicer to hold, and gets 2 hours battery life
limber knotBOT
they are really nice for chill walking/driving games where you don't want to press buttons/sticks all the time or just for games that require a mouse
but I'm pretty used to using them due to having the controller for a couple years now
magic river
Those sticks look like the garbage vita/3ds style, although maybe they're just recessed proper sticks
You know, the sticks that are actually just sliders
limber knotBOT
the mini only has intel though :S
limber knotBOT
magic river
The mini is going to be great for simple indie games, stuff from 10 years ago, and maybe some Gamecube/Wii emulation (and most things lower although Xbox and some PS2 stuff is hard)
Drivers should be the only thing stopping it from doing most/all Gamecube emulation
emulators tend to be optimized for OpenGL and for the nvidia driver
worthy geode
plucky plaza
Well It's actually Velocity. But I didn't know if I could post coding help there
It's a plugin
visual egret
cunning raft
ok
worn ember
Sorry
visual egret
ded r u a ryanair pilot
ashen cliff
He is a trained AirSerbia pilot.
visual egret
so true, so true
worn ember
Can confirm I'm fly
spare venture
damn those $15 tickets must really be not worth it then
hard marsh
https://wiki.vg/Authentication#Authenticate if this is heavily rate limited, wouldn't it be possible to prevent someone from logging in just by spamming the API with their username? I don't have a non-migrated account so I can't test if you need a password to do this too/
also what's preventing someone from MITMing the encryption process for MC servers?
little frost
https://wiki.vg/Authentication#Authenticate if this is heavily rate limited, wou...
yes
viral dagger
also what's preventing someone from MITMing the encryption process for MC server...
some public private key magic in combination with the session
I don't fully remember it but liveoverflow mentioned it in one of his last videos
golden gust
technically, nothing
viral dagger
according to liveoverflow there is something
golden gust
well, I mean, theres the server key thing
viral dagger
the client should register a server hash with the mojang authentication servers and the server should check with mojang if they did
btw, is there a reason why you don't have github sponsors?
cunning raft
paper does
viral dagger
I know that paper does, I mean them personally
We're already sponsoring paper
(and you)
golden gust
Yes, I have issues with Stripe as I don't have the relevant documentation needed for it
cunning raft
they saw he was british
and dipped
also something something "distributing funds to a cat"
viral dagger
ah, that's sad
magic river
Yeah the original design for authentication had to require no changes to the auth servers so we abused the "server id" field (iirc) to turn the auth server into a way to verify a shared secret without having to do asymmetric encryption
These days it's a bit of a weird mishmash of that original design and some more proper tech
Do they use the same public/private pair for auth as they do for signing chat, btw?
I assume when you login you get handed the private key?
magic river
We specialize in transforming things from impossible to late
- Elon Musk, on SpaceX
potent wedge
they saw he was british
I was in British server once and they got mad at me for not knowing a word only found in British dictionary's
golden gust
with me you need the dictionary
and then the urban dictionary
and then the ave dictionary
unkempt drift
> We specialize in transforming things from impossible to late
- Elon Musk, on S...
yeah I heard that quote. I think its actually pretty good
placid thicket
so i am starting to get the idea that this may be impossible. but i am trying to build a system where one plugin uses one vault currency and another plugin uses another vault currency. the two sets of plugins don't have to interact with each other at all and we would honestly rather they weren't even aware of eachother. anyone got leads on if this is even doable?
golden gust
well, yes, but, no
basically, it would rely on plugins actually caring to interface with vault outside of the basic steps
or, basically, you just have a proxy which routes the call elsewhere
(basically, register a vault provider at the highest priority and pray some other plugin doesn't get in there first)
placid thicket
😂 was hoping for better than "black magic and pray" lol
worthy geode
interacting with the economy plugin directly is probably better
there aren't that many that support multiple currencies anyways
placid thicket
there may be a better way to achieve what i want
so we are using CMI to handle a points shop type thing. but we also want to use Gringotts to handle player to player interactions and player shops. Gringotts is a bit weird where it uses physical diamonds for digital "fake money" transactions
so basically the hope was to just avoid physically needing the diamonds on you to use a chest shop or pay a player
worthy geode
but why have the physical currency if you don't want players to need it?
placid thicket
why have cash if everyone has a debit card?
worthy geode
idk, I never use cash 😄
placid thicket
that and with a diamond based economy, its the difference between falling into lava with your entire net worth or falling in and losing your debit card
worthy geode
yeah, I understand. can't really help you with that. we had 6 currencies using craftconomy and a custom shop plugin, that worked fine for about four years. but all of them were virtual, so no idea how to mix that with physical currencies
warm anchor
rate it based on rarity, make all of them inter-exchangable but not in a 1:1 ratio (aka tax the exchange)
placid thicket
problem is that point shop and player shop cant overlap
warm anchor
Just look into any successful MMO with cash shop
worthy geode
so, add pay2win?
warm anchor
the one I am playing rn actaully have an interesting system
placid thicket
point shop is basically entirely based on donations for cosmetics, which is why we dont want them to overlap to avoid people buying diamonds with real money or buying doner perks with diamonds
spare venture
we have a virtual currency and two physical currencies, but i coded all the physical currency handling and have not fucked with vault
makes life easier
worthy geode
Vault is pretty bad anyways, even when not doing multiple currencies
placid thicket
Vault is all i have ever known TBH, didn't even know there were alternatives
the most messing about i have done with it is getting CMI to behave...
worthy geode
I don't think there are alternatives
grand pewter
people have talked on alternatives, but getting every plugin to adopt those is the tricky part
warm anchor
unless Paper itself makes one, you are going to have very hard time to get people to adept to it
Plus Vault works for what it does so...
grand pewter
its just a bit dated, since its no longer being maintained
worthy geode
imo part of what Vault does should just be part of bukkit API, its installed everywhere anyways
spare venture
what is really wrong with it?
placid thicket
apparantly it doesn't like more than one currency for starters
grand pewter
its not like it doesnt work for most people (it does)
placid thicket
and CMI seems to need its own special build
spare venture
i have not had issues with their api
warm anchor
so, add pay2win? <:kekw:674093681963302933>
in Lost Ark,
Real money buys > Pay Crystal
Pay Crystal can be exchanged for blue Crystal
Gold (in-game currency) can be exchanged for blue crystal.
99% of the shop is sold in form of blue crystal.
This way free to play player can use in-game gold to get paid items
Whale can exchange their Pay Crystal > blue crystal > enter in exchange for gold.
The game developer just play with the exchange rate to control the inflation.
grand pewter
there aren't really too bad of api issues, what i'm talking about is more like code rot (like bukkit api has)
there are many desired features that are just not going to happen
worthy geode
the permission part of it is broken for per-world permissions in some cases
placid thicket
just wait for a java update to brick it and the whole MC community to burn down XD
grand pewter
jokes on you cause i dont use it really
warm anchor
there are many desired features that are just not going to happen
yeah not without any big players to push for anything new
grand pewter
maybe only thing is for ess chat? idk but that can easily be replaced
economy servers would get rekt though
placid thicket
just about everything i have hooks into it in one way or another >.>
spare venture
ya anything that uses economy would be rekt
worthy geode
in Lost Ark,
Real money buys > Pay Crystal
Pay Crystal can be exchanged for blue...
considering most of the money is made from those whales, that sounds like a good system for both devs and players tbh
placid thicket
anyway. back to the point. if i cant use the physical currency as a digital currency because Vault. anyone got another way to move JUST diamonds from A to B via command?
warm anchor
considering most of the money is made from those whales, that sounds like a good...
yeah you can either pay for items or grind for items. There is also no advantage in pvp in this game (you are given the same skill pts and gear are ignored in arena pvp)
so pay with money or pay with time.
spare venture
wdym move them A to B
worthy geode
whats A and B? inventories?
placid thicket
A being a designated chest, B being an inventory or another player's inventory or designated chest
worthy geode
is this a programming question? if yes, you can just remove the item in A and add it in B, assuming B is loaded.
placid thicket
Gringotts handles this by having a chest(s) marked with a particular sign as "vaults" compressing and expanding diamonds as needed to fit. it is able to do this while players are offline. i am unclear if it loads chunks to do this or uses some other form of black magic
if i could just keep it from hooking into Vault that would probably solve my problem by making it "not a currency"
IDK what else it uses vault for tho
worthy geode
to add items to an inventory that needs to be loaded, so it would need to load chunks.
but it could also cache the item in a file and add them the next time a chunk is loaded.
Gringotts is open source, you could just remove the vault stuff
placid thicket
that makes a heavy implication that i know how to do that...
i am just technical enough to get myself in trouble but not enough to get out of it
spare venture
just learn java 😉
worthy geode
deleting code is usually easy 😄
placid thicket
_deleting_ code is usually easy 😄
yeah but figuring out how to compile usually isn't
worthy geode
its using Maven, so that by itself isn't a problem.
but yes, you would need to learn java
But im afraid that this is a problem that will require some programming to solve, there won't be a ready-made plugin for it and it also seems like its not just a matter of changing a config setting
placid thicket
makes me wish i didn't cheat my way through programming in highschool >.>
anyway. i know what i need to do now
potent wedge
just learn java 😉
Great, now either use it like your life depends on it or cry about how bad object oriented is
worthy geode
great, now learn C#!
golden gust
Vault was never designed to deal with mutliple currencies on its own
it would basically require plugins to exlictly go out of their way to interface with multiple plugins, etc
and, pretty much, most plugins don't even interface with vault properly
spare venture
is C# supposed to be like C++++
golden gust
No
spare venture
damn
worthy geode
C# is java but someone moved the brackets around
spare venture
kinda looks like it
golden gust
C# is basicaly what happens when sun told microsoft to fuck off
spare venture
4 pluses arranged next to a C
potent wedge
Who needs more plusses when rust exists
worthy geode
Rust has pointers. pointers scare me
potent wedge
Pointers in rust are simple and not as scary as c
It's for when you give a mutable (changeable) thing to something that most likely isn't mutable or probably has like some weird memory thing to do before being mutable
And it tells you when and not to use them when compiling
I don't know cargo just tells me when to use them and when not to
mortal sandal
Paper starts SO fast.
Holy crap.
Spigot took 40 seconds to start each restart, this takes 3 - 5.
Wow.
jagged egret
Ok this may be a dumb question but is there anything wrong with just switching two Windows laptops' hard drives? So long as I purge all of the drivers, and switch the license keys?
golden gust
Windows ain't designed for it, make sure that you shift-click shutdown if possible
(think it was shift-click)
jagged egret
Right to disable fast boot
golden gust
Yea
Like, it's not designed for it but it generally should work so long as the hardware isn't too different
jagged egret
Only reason I'm doing this instead of just starting fresh is it's not my computer, and the computer already has everything set up the way the user wants. Except the computer is old and slow and I have an old laptop that's a considerable upgrade; but the user's existing SSD is twice the size of the one in my old laptop
So I figured, just switch the drives, purge the drivers and I won't even have to reconfigure everything
I'd definitely need to make sure the drives are set to the same mode in the BIOS (raid vs ahci) but they're both Dell computers so matching the settings shouldn't be too difficult, I'd imagine
worn ember
Should be fine
tropic narwhal
hey hey, I've been looking around for a way to get rid of all the "untouched" chunks in my preloaded 1.18 world => in preparation of the 1.19 launch.
normally I could go and check the last write date and get rid of the chunks that have not been written to after generation but I had a recent crash and had to copy everything => all dates are recent... :/ Is there a good way to check may be on a more granular level than the 32X32 chunks .mca files? I'm running a hash comparison on a same perimeter newly generated world to see if that is a route but that's going to take a hot minute since I have to pregenerate that one... Suggestions would be highly appreciated!
grand pewter
hey hey, I've been looking around for a way to get rid of all the "untouched" ch...
use mcaselector, it has a thing to select chunks with a certain amount of "inhabited time" (in ticks, zero means a player was never in the chunk)
can also filter to generally lower values
tropic narwhal
@grand pewter seems not to register time stayed in region :/
native wolf
I use Thanos by Aternos for that
it's a simple script that will nuke all chunks with inhabitedTime: 0
ashen cliff
INB4 all chunks have it set to 0, due to a plugin being stupid.
vernal moth
And that's why you have backups
viral dagger
thanos also just creates a new world folder with the chunks you want to keep, it doesn't delete the old files
brazen crow
hello
potent wedge
Spigot took 40 seconds to start each restart, this takes 3 - 5.
Some still think spigot is faster lol
fossil nymph
Is there anything I can do to lower the cpu usage whilst booting that isn't just limiting the threads in docker?
limber knotBOT
why?
golden gust
Not really, you have dozens of things init'ing themselves, the JVM compiling stuff, etc
primal solar
oh good so how is this message in the paper discord
quasi valley
oh good so how is this message in the paper discord
chill, it's already been said once
crystal lilyBOT
golden gust
if you want support outside of that, basically, yes.
wet storm
What does spigot's (modified by paper) WatchdogThread do? Watching how server ticks goes and send a warning message in a console if something wrong with them?
wide chasm
Watchdog checks if the server is still ticking. If it takes too long for a tick to happen, it will start complaining.
worn ember
and eventually kill it
fossil nymph
Not really, you have dozens of things init'ing themselves, the JVM compiling stu...
1.12.2 was way lower
golden gust
Because there was less init'ing
fossil nymph
I suppose
golden gust
I mean, they didn't have OTT fancy stuff back then
DFU
the dozens of registries, the data parsing, multiple threads doing stuff inducing much class compilation
fossil nymph
is DFU initialized on boot?
golden gust
rules are registered, we do lazy init that, however, part of how paper boots much faster
fossil nymph
yeah makes sense
golden gust
I mean, 90% of the servers classes aren't in the work tree
Like, you could do it but there would just be a metric ton of work
gotta figure out cache busting with datapacks, etc
magic river
Some day maybe Forge or Fabric (or vanilla!) will figure out how to do that too so modpacks don't take 20 years to launch
quasi valley
golden gust
The entire system is so OTT that I really have doubts anybody will deal with that
You have the registries, like, the global ones, the dimension ones, then you have datapacks, then theres the whole codec system, etc
magic river
I think the problem is it's all still too much code
wet storm
The entire system is so OTT that I really have doubts anybody will deal with tha...
I mean, I make registries oriented paper fork and making caching of at least, dimension ones would be nice, because it'll boost datapacks and plugins using my API
golden gust
We mean serialising all the registries to the disk
magic river
If it was "here are some JSON files, make me a registry" you could do it but otherwise you'd have to do something like "when someone calls register check if we already cached the key they're registering and if their jar is the same as what the cache saw" but at that point presumably they've already done the expensive parts
golden gust
Like, the entire system is an overengineered mess that writing the entire thing to the disk would be a joyous PITA
then theres the risk that the work that you do there ends up being slower than just letting MC populate that all itself
Then you've gotta work out how to implement cache busting
magic river
On the client side I think there is still a benefit to caching for the model loading and texture atlas generation
golden gust
Like, you can bust on data version change, but, datapacks?
magic river
But for the rest of the stuff it's too programmatic
ashen cliff
Some day maybe Forge or Fabric (or vanilla!) will figure out how to do that too ...
For 1.6.4 there was a class cacher.
Worked magic, until you added one of the stupid mods that decided to RNG their injection method and generated stuff that broke it.
golden gust
hotspot actually has a native mechanism for that now
magic river
Forge doesn't do their own model loader for most things anymore, do they? I thought they just let you plug in to the vanilla one
golden gust
think it was hotspot
magic river
hotspot actually has a native mechanism for that now
AppCDS?
ashen cliff
hotspot actually has a native mechanism for that now
That's cool and all, but I can't, get any of them to work.
Like, it will store the classes, a whole 200MB file of them.
Restart and bam, all of them discarded, because one of the core mods somehow changed the hash.
magic river
That doesn't even help with the expensive part anyway
Unless forge is lying about what is taking so long on startup it's the model loading and texture atlas generation
ashen cliff
For me it does, since 7 minutes of mod loading changed into 2 minutes.
I think the models and textures aren't multi threaded from what I remember.
In 1.6.4 Optifine (or some other FPS mod) might have made them multi threaded and speed up stuff a lot, but sometimes it would glitch some textures, so not recommended.
golden gust
Yea, I mean, forge is their own PITA
also, maybe it's not a hotspot thing?? I see refs for it for j9
-Xshareclasses
ashen cliff
Also, that in loading part includes sounds. And reloading those with F3... yeah, 3 minutes of your life gone.
ashen cliff
-Xshareclasses
Yeah, but doesn't work.
raw abyss
where can i download paper spigot 1.16.5 on site i can't find it? 🙂
crystal lilyBOT
To download old versions of Paper, click here ➡️ papermc.io/legacy ⬅️ and fill out the questions. Note that old versions are completely unsupported and contain numerous bugs/exploits.
golden gust
yea, vanillas resource stuff is bleh
wet storm
When registry system was invented? In like, 1.6? Cuz I remember that 1.5.2 had that "we transfer minecraft from numeric IDs" banner on title screen...
ashen cliff
1.6 already had it.
1.7 started pushing it.
golden gust
effectively, it's a way of mapping data towards numerical IDs
said IDs are used for various things, i.e. sending over the network, storing blocks in memory in an efficent manner, etc
fossil nymph
ah I see
explains why it takes time to load that in
Are there things that can't be cached to disk or is all of it just static data?
golden gust
The datas defined from various places
much of its hardcoded in the server/client still, a bunch of it comes from datapacks including the builtin datapack
topaz mortar
Hopefully that will change drastically.
worn ember
magic river
Ideally you'd have simple data files for the blocks, their states, their models, etc and then the code would look those up from the registry or something to attach some behavior to them
But that's basically a completely different game
wet storm
I surprised that martin fowler specified "registry pattern" in the Enterprise patterns https://martinfowler.com/eaaCatalog/registry.html Is it specified somewhere else as a game dev pattern? Prob many games has something like minecraft registries
magic river
I dunno if someone has a specific write up for games but when you start to think of games as databases it becomes kind of obvious
Game as database is required to make modding not suck too so... yeah
ashen cliff
So... OVH isn't allowing me to renew a domain: https://posili.me/i/7vid78j4-2022-05-31_20-13-44.png
That's cool.
rotund cargo
So... OVH isn't allowing me to renew a domain: https://posili.me/i/7vid78j4-2022...
Contact the support I guess so at least you know why
native wolf
Game as database is required to make modding not suck too so... yeah
Mojang be like: let's have both!
magic river
They're trying to gradually move to a sane system
Swapping the engines while the plane is in the air
I probably would have just given up and started Minecraft 2 at this point 😛
If the last few years of updates had instead come out all at once along with a cleaner technical base that allowed for easy modding and future features they could get away with calling it 2, I think
native wolf
definitely
jagged egret
So I figured, just switch the drives, purge the drivers and I won't even have to...
Lol turns out I forgot Legacy vs UEFI is a thing
limber knotBOT
oof, reddit is down
magic river
with the legal stuff
Mojang code is closed source, Bukkit and CraftBukkit code is GPL, you can't combine the two
This is a GPL violation
worthy geode
I feel like reddit is down all the time
jagged egret
Plugged the old drive into the new computer and it wouldn't boot. Was concerning for a second but then I remembered and switched to Legacy and it worked and also it turns out there's an official Microsoft tool to convert MBR to GPT
sweet parrot
This is a GPL violation
But, isnt paper using the patch system to "bypass" that
magic river
It's a legal grey area
Spigot is technically doing patches too
They just do per-file patches while paper does per-feature patches (more or less)
sweet parrot
And whats with fabric, forge or quilt?
magic river
The problem here isn't from the Mojang side so unless fabric and forge get sloppy they're fine
I think they're MIT licensed for their stuff? Which basically means use it however you want so long as you tell people who made it
sweet parrot
Ah ok
wet storm
Forge also uses per file patches
magic river
LGPL stuff would also be okay, so long as it's a library they're using
sweet parrot
But GPL was a great decision
void void
quilt and fabric are apache iirc
sweet parrot
quilt and fabric are apache iirc
that means?
magic river
Apache is just MIT + patent grant and more words to make the lawyers happy
Forge still being patch files makes sense to try to shelter themselves from Mojang ever getting sue happy
Spigot and Paper have to worry about more than just Mojang though
sweet parrot
hm
true canyon
and more words to make the lawyers happy
This is probably the best description of that license. 😄
magic river
And again, I don't know that there is any settled precedent on if patches protect you from a copyright violation
sweet parrot
Spigot and Paper have to worry about more than just Mojang though
But wouldnt that be shooting in thier own leg?
magic river
Why would it be Spigot hurting themselves if I sue them?
magic river
I was the main contributor to CraftBukkit for a couple years
sweet parrot
and craftbukkit was what type?
magic river
Technically I was violating my own license by putting my code in there but that's okay, I'm allowed
You aren't unless I say so
GPL
Just like Spigot and Paper are since they're based on CraftBukkit
wet storm
GPL is the hell for closed source projects
sweet parrot
Bc you own it on your pc
limber knotBOT
that depends on your jurisdiction
and on the terms of service you have with your operating system/hardware provider
magic river
Modifying my own copy of the vanilla server is fine, sure, Mojang couldn't sue me for that
Distributing that modified copy they could
limber knotBOT
ideally you'll want to only use open source software (and hardware which is impossible) if you want to be guaranteed to be able to modify your own stuff
just look at John Deer lol
magic river
Just like I could go after someone for distributing my modified copy
sweet parrot
Distributing that modified copy they could
yeah, but paper is only giving the plan to modify
limber knotBOT
it's not
sweet parrot
o.o?
limber knotBOT
it's giving you a tool that automatically patches and starts a full server
that's the gray area part
magic river
It's an open question whether the patch files themselves are legal
wet storm
It's an open question whether the patch files themselves are legal
let's check and destroy the whole minecraft dev community with the exception of fabric and quilt /s
magic river
Even if the patch files are legal it might not be legal to ship a binary diff of applying them which is what paper does
sweet parrot
let's check and destroy the whole minecraft dev community with the exception of ...
My thought
magic river
Or might not be legal to ship a tool that automates the process of turning those patches into an infringing work which is what Spigot does (and technically paperweight too)
true canyon
How about distributing a small software that can procedurally generate the patches without itself containing the patch files 🤔
limber knotBOT
glances at BuildTools
sweet parrot
How about distributing a small software that can *procedurally generate* the pat...
wouldnt make that only result in more gray?
Is there any Solution to that, 50 shades of gray ;D, of legal drama?
true canyon
If a million monkeys at typewriters are able to by chance reproduce Fifty Shades, is selling the monkeys a copyright violation? 😄
I don't like how we both went to 50 shades with our jokes
magic river
The only way to be sure it'd be legal would be to go to court over it but since Mojang has shown they have no interest in going after modders acting in good faith you really only have to worry about the GPL side of things
sweet parrot
I don't like how we both went to 50 shades with our jokes
Yes XD
wide chasm
Projects kinda just hope that everybody leaves them alone. Larger projects may have the funds to at least get a lawyer to take a look if needed, but the only one who would realistically be able to start a case over this is Mojang, since copyright cases are absurdly expensive.
magic river
Which means you could solve this by getting everyone who contributed to Bukkit and CraftBukkit to sign the Spigot CLA or otherwise relicense their work
But I have no interest in saying it's okay to use my GPL'ed work in a CraftBukkit derivative and probably will never do so
true canyon
You'd have to get Mojang to sign the Spigot CLA for the commits they own 😆
magic river
Which leaves the question of whether I'll ever have the money and/or desire to sue
sweet parrot
imagine paper being illegal in some countries
limber knotBOT
speaking as a contributor I have more issues with people using my work in a way that violates the GPL obviously (proprietary forks) than the fact that it gets combined with mojang work lol
magic river
I dunno if Mojang owns any, Curse probably does? I don't know if those guys were employees or contractors
wide chasm
Does Curse own them or CurseForge?
limber knotBOT
it all comes down to what is in dinnerbone's etc. contracts no?
true canyon
My understanding was Curse sold/gave it to Mojang, per some remarks when all that stuff went down.
magic river
iirc those 4 originally hired by Mojang were basically somewhat of an acquihire from Curse so I guess they must have been employees
Dunno if Mojang bought the rights to the stuff they'd already done or not
wide chasm
inb4 Bukkit is part of Amazon /s
magic river
I know they bought the trademark
limber knotBOT
was the development of (craft)bukkit actually part of their contract at curse though?
magic river
Dinnerbone was doing it as a fulltime job so either he was blowing off actual work or that was what he was hired for
afaik Grum still worked at RIPE so if he was working for Curse it must have been part time?
So yeah, for two of the most prolific developers from the start of the project it's not even clear (to us anyway) who even owns the copyright to their stuff
Good luck getting that all sorted out and getting everyone to agree to relicense
I know at least 2 people who would refuse anyway
sweet parrot
Future be like:
🕵️💾 🙎------------------------ 🚓 👮 👮♀️
. \ \
(Here I got Paper Server Software) \ (STOP, THAT IS ILLEGAL SOFTWARE)
. (I will pay you 100 $)
vernal moth
Let's not.
vernal moth
Forges relicense was already such a massive amount of work
And that was with no company and with the core contributors still around
So yeah nothing will ever change for us
waxen panther
vernal moth
Not that it has to, everybody seems fine with the situation rn
untold meadow
wet storm
dat law thing brings me a headache
magic river
I'm probably never going to pursue a legal case on this stuff but I'm leaving my options open, thus not relicensing or telling anyone they're okay using my stuff
waxen panther
i think active paper general chatters should take up fishing
magic river
Except for the bits I gave Forge the okay for or contributed to Sponge
wide chasm
Unless anyone who can take action, actually does take action, but I doubt that would happen in the recent future.
untold meadow
i think active legal chatters should take up not chatting
vernal moth
I'm probably never going to pursue a legal case on this stuff but I'm leaving my...
Well, that's fair
sweet parrot
Not that it has to, everybody seems fine with the situation rn
Tomorrow at your Doorstep
📃📃📃📃📃📃
waxen panther
er well actually i took a 30 minute youtube seminar on law 🤓
wide chasm
Well actually my YT seminar was 40 minutes
magic river
Maybe someone will cough up a bitcoin or something to try to make me stop talking about it 😛
I offered it to Mojang, they sent me a cease and desist in response
untold meadow
if i had a dollar for every time ive seen someone talk about lawsuits in the paper discord i would have enough money to actually do a stupid law suit
twin lagoon
T R U E
sweet parrot
if i had a dollar for every time ive seen someone talk about lawsuits in the pap...
I never saw that here lol
vernal moth
I offered it to Mojang, they sent me a cease and desist in response
For offering your contributions to Bukkit to them? Lol
magic river
Well I didn't offer them for free 😛
wide chasm
lol
untold meadow
shocked pikachu
vernal moth
Well yes, but still
They could have said "nothxbye" but instead said "I'll sue you into the ground if you ever contact us about this again"? Lol
magic river
I suppose considering the situation at the time they may have considered it extortion
limber knotBOT
lol
sweet parrot
The Word "legal" - 3.429 times written on this discord.
worn ember
I offered it to Mojang, they sent me a cease and desist in response
my parents send me cease and desists every month 
wide chasm
Should try again, maybe they'll send you another one /s
vernal moth
Oh, yeah, depending on your tone, I can see that 😂
magic river
So they brought the threat of going after me for violating their license to counter
worn ember
magic river
I don't remember my tone leading in that direction but it was right after wolv took down the project so I guess anything I said would be viewed that way at the time
vernal moth
Yeah
untold meadow
you only "suppose" that randomly emailing someone asking for money with the threat of a lawsuit would be considered extortion to a lawyer
wide chasm
On the other hand, if they just acquired the code from four devs, it would also not be out of the question that they'd be interested in acquiring more
It was four, right?
vernal moth
That was way before tho, no?
magic river
Right, learning Curse had been paying those guys to work on stuff and Mojang bought them from Curse is what prompted the ask
I dunno if they actually bought anything more than the trademarks and such but yeah
worn ember
mojang should buy my rtp code to replace /spread
vernal moth
I mean, they went and became Mojang devs, so wouldn't be far fetched to think they acuiqured the copyright too
sweet parrot
Mojang just make your server shit open source with gpl or something, problem solved XD
(I have no Plan, about that I am just joking, so please dont hate me if thats not true thanks)
magic river
I would assume either they bought the copyright or just assumed their new devs would port anything relevant into vanilla as an employee and that would solve the copyright issue anyway
wide chasm
I'd hope the former, because the latter seems like an optimistic assumption.
sweet parrot
is there anything diffrent than bukkit in the minecraft server game? (not bedrock)
magic river
I don't actually know how that would work, if I wrote X and then a company hired me to make their thing do what X does would any copy I reused automatically be fine or would they need to negotiate that with me separate from employment?
wet storm
sponge
worn ember
sponge and a billion failed projects
wide chasm
I'd guess that the original copyright would still hold, so that would need to be bought separately?
worn ember
no sponge is its own implementation
sweet parrot
ah ok
vernal moth
I don't actually know how that would work, if I wrote X and then a company hired...
I think nobody would care enough to try to take that up in a court, not that they would be able to prove it
wet storm
btw, what's with hmod? Was it even licensed under something back in the days?
limber knotBOT
main issue would be what happens if you recode it and then continue working on your original project based on what you learned from teh recode
magic river
I'm not sure hmod ever had a clear license
limber knotBOT
(recode for the company)
vernal moth
main issue would be what happens if you recode it and then continue working on y...
I mean, continuing on mod project generally is a big no no for various reasons
Like also anti competitive clauses for example
magic river
Huh, PS Plus game for June is God of War
wide chasm
If I were to write a piece of code, then license it under, say, GPL, then I'd put this same code in the codebase for a company that didn't acquire the code, that company would then be violating that copyright would be my assumption. (Assuming their codebase isn't GPL-compliant.)
magic river
Everyone with a PS5 and PS Plus already has that game, it's a part of the PS Plus collection of hits from the PS4
vernal moth
If I were to write a piece of code, then license it under, say, GPL, then I'd pu...
For a 1:1 copy, maybe (altho you could say the re/dual licence for this one case is implied) but if you actually recode it it becomes funny
wide chasm
Well, I was assuming this was about a 1:1 copy.
wet storm
If I were to write a piece of code, then license it under, say, GPL, then I'd pu...
let's get a work at mojang, put one character of gpl licensed code and finally open source minecraft /s
sweet parrot
If you do it on purpose it could be an edge case?
sweet parrot
let's get a work at mojang, put one character of gpl licensed code and finally o...
YESS
Best plan ever
vernal moth
Like, you don't give away the copyright when you contribute to an GPL project, and since you still have the copyright, you can issue copies of your contributions under whatever licence you want
Urg, my Spotify app is so broken
I guess I need to opt out of beta
wide chasm
Sure, you need to explicitly state that the code you push to the GPL project is now licensed as GPL. But for example on GitHub, their ToS states that contributions to a repository with license X must be licensed as X unless other agreements are in effect such as CLAs. So if I put my code on a GitHub repo with a GPL license, it's now GPL.
quasi valley
you can do literally whatever you want with your own code, just noone else can
wide chasm
Yeah, sure, but if I push my own code to a GPL repo on GitHub, it now must be licenseable as GPL.
vernal moth
Sure, you need to explicitly state that the code you push to the GPL project is ...
Yes and no, a copy of it is published under the GPL licence. The copyright still resides with you.
worn ember
you can do literally whatever you want with your own code, just noone else can
what if you sign a contract that any code you write is owned by the company?
twin lagoon
@quasi valley
coarse lily
Then it's not "your own" code.
vernal moth
what if you sign a contract that any code you write is owned by the company?
Then you are not allowed to contribute to GPL projects
quasi valley
@twin lagoon is violating me
worn ember
fair
coarse lily
@twin lagoon
vernal moth
I had to get explicit permission from work to contribute to open source projects we use on work time
twin lagoon
@coarse lily send oreos
worn ember
thats so stupid lol
quasi valley
@coarse lily send amd cpus/gpus
wide chasm
Yes and no, a copy of it is published under the GPL licence. The copyright still...
How would that work? How can you both have your code licensed as GPL and have full copyright?
coarse lily
@quasi valley send snacks
magic river
Are "everything you create while an employee belongs to us" contracts legal in the EU?
quasi valley
I'm currently eating them, too late
worn ember
I'm currently eating them, too late
me with ur mum
coarse lily
thats so stupid lol
Not really stupid. If someone is paying you to sit in their office and work and you're working on something else, it kinda makes sense that they're basically paying you to work on a side project.
vernal moth
Are "everything you create while an employee belongs to us" contracts legal in t...
Only covering work time and mmaaaayybbbe competing projects but not flat out like that
coarse lily
So it stands to reason that you'd get permission to work on it.
vernal moth
Oh come on fuck you
I don't want to uninstall
Then I have to download all files again
Why can't you push me an update to downgrade....
magic river
afaik in the US they can just say they own everything you create or think of while you work for them, even if it's unrelated to what you do for them and you do it at home with all your own stuff
vernal moth
afaik in the US they can just say they own everything you create or think of whi...
Well, US has no employee rights like at all, lol
But now we getting political ^^
coarse lily
They can add a clause that says that, but you can not agree to it. It's also unenforceable sometimes.
But in a lot of cases it depends on what the thing is.
If you have a day job and at night you build something that's worth billions they're gonna come after you if there's a clause in your contract saying they own it.
If you make $1.50 they aren't gonna really care as much.
wet storm
But now we getting political ^^
jroy where?
wide chasm
I did explicitly check for this for the contracts I signed at jobs, just to make sure this wasn't the case.
vernal moth
I would never sign such a contract
coarse lily
I've had it removed a few times.
wide chasm
I would never sign such a contract
Me neither
coarse lily
A lot of contracts have a bunch of random crap in them that they just copy and paste and you want to get modified or removed.
I've never signed a contract that didn't need modification.
magic river
It's a standard clause in employment contracts in the US
Every non-programming job I've done had it
sweet parrot
Are "everything you create while an employee belongs to us" contracts legal in t...
I think so
vernal moth
My contract is just one and a half page anyways
It has like nothing in it
Most stuff is handled company wide
Woooo
magic river
I tried to fight it once but there was no negotiation allowed, sign it or no job so I just decided they wouldn't even know I existed much less try to sue me for writing a thing to make your windows wobble when you move them
wide chasm
Contract at my first job is five pages. At my uni, the contract is basically just whatever the union says, so the contract itself is really small, the documents from the union are like 350 pages or so.
magic river
Programming jobs have either not had it, had it limited to things done on work time or with work resources, had it limited to things related to what the company does, or I was able to get it removed
coarse lily
I tried to fight it once but there was no negotiation allowed, sign it or no job...
I've only had to walk away from one or two like this.
Generally if the contract is "sign it or fuck off" then you don't want to work for them.
magic river
It was a call center, of course I didn't want to work for them 😛
coarse lily
I'd say maybe 50% of the programming gigs I've done have had that clause in them.
Even short term contracts.
vernal moth
My contract doesn't even say my role, lmao
coarse lily
It's always entertaining to have to point out how ridiculous that is, and how it violates other contracts with other clients, etc
vernal moth
Or my proper job description
wet storm
Thoughts about MPL 2.0? Is this license bring headaches for other people or not?
magic river
If the company has any kind of legal and/or HR team you're probably going to run in to some kind of clause like that
How draconian they try to be is the question
restive saffron
What is this website..? https://spigotnc.org/resources/lightanticheat.192/
I've never heard of this "SpigotNC"
magic river
Isn't MPL 2 just GPL 2 but per-file?
wide chasm
Mine explicitly states that only the content I create that is related to my job is theirs.
restive saffron
i was so close to entering my password on this website
cuz i wanted to download a plugin real quick lmfao
vernal moth
I've never heard of this "SpigotNC"
Dum copycat, avoid.
magic river
What is this website..? https://spigotnc.org/resources/lightanticheat.192/
It's meant to catch typos and get you to give them your password and/or give you infected jar files
coarse lily
If the company has any kind of legal and/or HR team you're probably going to run...
I've found that any company large enough to have actual in house counsel or a large HR team with outside counsel is very very very flexible on you modifying the contracts.
vernal moth
It's meant to catch typos and get you to give them your password and/or give you...
Nah it's some disgruntled spigot user trying to start a competing site
coarse lily
All the big companies totally expect it.
magic river
Sometimes those things pop up just to scrape ad revenue but...
magic river
Nah it's some disgruntled spigot user trying to start a competing site
Wow, that's crazy
vernal moth
Kids basically
limber knotBOT
it's more like a leak site than a competing one lol
vernal moth
Maybe they wanna compete with black spigot then, who knows
Not worth looking into, lol
limber knotBOT
pretty sure it's one of teh guys from BS behind it or from some other leak site
vernal moth
I just saw the creator in spigot discord when they posted it or something
limber knotBOT
iirc they paid people rewards to steal plugins at some point
(or at least claimed to do that)
vernal moth
Anyways, time to go to sleep, big release at work tomorrow, then I'll finally have time and energy for hangar again
restive saffron
I thought it was weird when my password manager didn't put my password into the site. Glad I caught that, I thought Spigot just updated it's website
wet storm
Isn't MPL 2 just GPL 2 but per-file?
I mean, am I a weird guy licensing every project I can under MPL 2.0? I like its conditions and it can be used even in proprietary software unlike gpl, iirc it stays somewhere between apache, mit, bsds etc. and GPL...
wide chasm
Anyways, time to go to sleep, big release at work tomorrow, then I'll finally ha...
hangar wen? /s
restive saffron
I have a hanger
vernal moth
Sooooon!
We really close
Kenny and others did some nice stuff while I was gone
Really cool to see that the project isn't depending on only me
warm anchor
Sleep now mini 
wet storm
hangar => docs => hard fork. Sulu's docs wen?
spare venture
so why is that phishing link still in here
tulip knoll
@cinder nebula , what's up?
magic river
I mean, am I a weird guy licensing every project I can under MPL 2.0? I like its...
Right, changes to one of your files have to be shared like GPL but otherwise they can use it how they want
tall goblet
Hey admins 🙂
My users experience immediate disconnect after being inactive for less then 1 minute. Can I extend this time?
Version nr.: 352
warm anchor
Paper does not have an afk kick built-in. Check your plugin.
worthy geode
also check player-idle-timeout in server.properties
tall goblet
also check ``player-idle-timeout`` in server.properties
Ok thank you. Will check that immediately.
magic river
player-idle-timeout isn't for if they stopped pressing keys, it's for if their connection died
tall goblet
I will observe this incident then for a while. I didn’t checked for myself yet.
player-idle-timeout is set to 5.
Is this in seconds or minutes?
lament patio
Minutes
thorn burrow
Anybody have grief protection plugin suggestions? one that would also allow the player to let their friends interact with their builds? @ me
tulip knoll
:)
cinder nebula
😏
worthy geode
`player-idle-timeout` isn't for if they stopped pressing keys, it's for if their...
If non-zero, players are kicked from the server if they are idle for more than that many minutes.
unkempt drift
yeah its more than just connection
its a rudimentary afk kick thing
wtf there is a vanilla command to change it?
I swear I learn about a new vanilla command way too frequently
wet storm
What does WorldStem do? I see it initializes in n.m.s.Main and it messes around with datapacks and frozen registry access, but why is it needed in later initialization?
warm anchor
I actually don’t know vanilla has that feature 
warm anchor
I swear I learn about a new vanilla command way too frequently
Same here
magic river
TIL vanilla has afk detection
unkempt drift
WorldStem creates the main RegistryAccess instance, and in vanilla, the only instance of PrimaryLevelData
jagged egret
how could I make nether portals behave like every player is in creative mode? (i.e. instantaneous portal travel?)